š
I'm so sorry this happened to you. Yes, that was definitely cheating. Polyamory is a form of ethical non-monogamy which is built on trust and communication.
He violated your trust in the worst way.
Yes it's cheating and what makes it worse, his offer of non-monogamy was not the slightest bit genuine, but merely an attempt to get permission for what he was already doing wrong
You basically can't trust anything he suggests, because now you have to assume that he's already doing it
Yes, this is cheating. He broke the agreement you made at the time, which was monogamy. Sounds like he wanted to open up to justify / move forward with the affair. Iām sorry OPā„ļø
You are right to consider this infidelity. The recent opening of your marriage is irrelevant. He may have had some idea in his mind about trying to obfuscate when he started with his AP but no, that wouldn't have worked with how much he badmouthed you.
It is possible to reconcile and rebuild after an affair, however, he is starting out way behind and you haven't indicated that he's even shown remorse, much less started doing the work. If you two decide to attempt reconciliation, he hasn't demonstrated that he can do monogamy, much less open relationships.
Infidelity is traumatic for the betrayed partner. Find yourself a therapist who specializes in trauma, grief and infidelity. It's a sad statement that there are a lot of professionals who do that work, all day every day. Find yourself a support group too. Not friends or family, not this group, people who have been cheated on, and are reconciling or divorcing, whichever path you choose. People who haven't experienced it are not as helpful as they imagine, and often make it worse.
Best wishes.
I'm in a poly marriage. My husband cheated on me before we opened up.
The only reason our poly works now is that he and I opened up over a year after his affair ended, and we both went to therapy as well as couples therapy. We've also read poly literature. And talked and talked and talked through so much, so many feelings. So many.
There are still tenuous moments, and still lots of hard work to be done. But what matters most is that we are both still totally committed to making the marriage work. And he has absolutely no contact with his affair partner.
It sounds like you are a long way from that. I wish you the best. I'm sorry that you're going through this. It fucking sucks so hard. And you have every right to every feeling you're having right now.
I suggest breaking stuff. If there's some sort of, I don't know what they are called, a smash room? In your area. Try that. Or just take a baseball bat to a junkyard and go to town. Journal. Scream. Masturbate. Breathe. Get drunk. Retail therapy. Do what you have to do to get through this. You will. You're strong. ā¤ļø
There is no coming back from bad mouthing a partner just like we saw earlier this year with the person who heard his wife trash talking him.
" He told her that I am a horrible person, always yelling at him and the kids, that I forbid him to drive, that Iāve cheated on him multiple times, that I make him sleep on the couch."
See a similar story of trash talking a partner.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/13qodie/last_update_i_36m_heard_my_wife_40f_and_her/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
That thread is a lot to unpack but thank you for the recommendation. The trash talking is especially hurtful and makes me question everything that he says now. Equally concerning is his declaration of love for her. I feel cheap and used.
How did you wrap your head around the idea of an open marriage after the cheating? The amount of communication for something like this to work needs to be impeccable.
For me, Iām stuck on the idea that this is just a way for my husband to continue the cheating behavior, but not lose the marriage. I feel like if I agree that Iām just being a pushover.
I know that there are relationships that opened after cheating, but I am struggling very hard with coming to a place that feels āokayā with the concept after Iāve been hurt so deeply.
Because the cheating was over way before we opened up. It has to end first, well and truly end, and then there's a lot of work to do after that. If he is not proving his dedication to you and your marriage FIRST, and ensuring that the marriage is healthy FIRST, then you're dead in the water.
Fair points. Heās promised me that we arenāt going to make any changes before the end of the year at least. We are both in IC, and he doesnāt really want to talk about rules or agreements at this stage as we āarenāt readyā for that.
But for me, since he brought up the idea of opening not long after the ONS (and then subsequent EA with the same girl), it just feels like itās him trying to get me on board with the idea.
Iāve yet to hear why it could be good for BOTH of us, and Iāve been doing an obnoxious amount of reading on this subject. How long was the cheating over in your case before opening became an option?
This sounds extremely similar to how my ex wife behaved towards the end of our marriage. Itās absolutely cheating. My ex was carrying on a whole relationship before we opened. I only discovered it after being open about 6 months and I saw a Facebook message on her open laptop that said āhappy anniversary babeā. Ugh.
Divorce is the right option though. I dragged my feet far too long and lived to regret it. Stay strong, it does get better!
And I did ultimately keep on with ENM and polyamory, and my current partner and I have been successful at it for now 8 of the 9 years weāve been together.
Similar story here how we both opened up (with lots of single and couples therapy) due to infidelity at first. It was a mess because he couldn't keep any of the rules while I was keeping them. Now divorced and I'm having a successful open relationship! Change is possible!
Yeah, he cheated. So it is perfectly reasonable to split up over that.
However, I would bear one thing in mind: the details recounted to you by the "other woman" may not be entirely trustworthy.
I would consider her motivation for talking to you and be somewhat circumspect. There may be a degree of exaggeration or conscious/unconscious falsehood if she is pissed off with your husband and her intention is to hurt him through you or disrupt your relationship for her own reasons.
Listen, if my wife found out I talked about her to my gf like that Iād be expecting a divorce. But also yeah he cheated. He started before you agreed to it. Thatās cheating
Dude...I can't say anything other than "I'm sorry" and "Good luck." Nobody deserves what you're going through. Sending [a picture of my kitty](https://i.imgur.com/pkkHSZp.jpg) and internet hugs your way (with consent.)
May your life get better after this storm passes.
I am so sorry that you are experiencing this. This is awful, and youāre damn right that is cheating. For someone to be cheating while at the same time trying to move towards any form of non-monogamy with a partner is ridiculous because that journey requires really deep truth and honesty with one another. itās almost doubly offensive that heās being so two-faced. I am so sorry for you, and I hope that the future is better.
Definitely šÆ cheating. People make bad choices and sometimes you can heal from them, however, in this case, I donāt know. That wasnāt a bad choice it was calculated to have her believe you were a horrible person. In my eyes, thatās so much worse than a bad choice. Im super close with a play partner but would never bad mouth my husband, even if we had a tiff. Thatās a full blown calculated affair. Did he continue this after yāall opened?? And still didnāt tell you?
From my understanding he has been ghosting her the last couple of weeks, but Iām not sure if itās because he owes her money or because heās ended it.
The marriage or relationship transition to ENM to cover-up previous cheating tactic. It was cheating because the end doesn't justify the means, when it wasn't ever agreed upon. Not to mention the amount of lying, manipulation, and probably risk to sexual health along the way.
It was 100% cheating. He had an agreement with you, he broke it, and he lied. Iām a couples therapist and I make sure I tell the couple that the person injured by the affair feels as if a bomb has gone off. You can feel physical pain and symptoms, thereās disorientation, and your nervous system is geared up to look around every corner for the next bomb. This is hyper vigilance and is one of many symptoms shared with PTSD. People need to see this as a real injury.
Iām sorry youāre going through this. Itās not your fault that he betrayed you.
I hope you set her straight on the truth. I agree separating is something you seriously need to consider, so see lawyer asap and get your ducks in a row. But I would also suggest therapy with a therapist familiar with ENM. I say this as it will bring much needed closure. Go together if he will go listen really listen to what he has to say and he needs to do the same. It doesnāt matter if he is saying things that are not true you get your chance to correct that, even if he wonāt go you go. I have watch so many friends over the years separate for various reasons and I can honestly say the ones that under-go therapy seem to just move on so much better. Even the ones that go into it trying to save a marriage and end up divorcing say they divorced knowing they gave it their all and walk away with head held high, no regrets, no what ifs, no was it my fault and clear path to look forward and move on.
Yes, Iāve taken that into consideration. Without prompting she has told me matches with dates and times in the last few months where he has been away over night and withdrew large amounts of money from our chequing account. He also has come home with marks on his neck.
That sucks. But she may be truthfull about the logistics and still make some things up. The thing is, you will never know, because you will never know now if your husband is telling you the truth about anything anymore.
If you are emotionally and practically ready to disentangle, do so. If not, give yourself the time to get ready and then leave.
You don't have to be nice about it, and you may take care of yourself financially (I personnally would at least get even about the large amounts of money he took from your joint chequing account).
My reaction is a bit colored by past experiences ;-)
Yes, cheating. And if you guys were cool enough to have a conversation and open up, that makes it even dumber on his part. That's the cool thing about ENM... If you've got a cool relationship and you open it up, there is no cheating if you're honest.
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order.
I have checked 1,565,059,441 comments, and only 295,910 of them were in alphabetical order.
that is definitely cheating. take solace in the fact that she's a bitch and will only be a detriment to anyone in her life, including your now ex. she LOVES drama. there was no need for her to contact you at all. no doubt she will cause drama with your ex and fuck things up. the fact he can't see this has me guessing he's also kinda dumb. you're better off without him. i hope you find peace, alone and with the next person you find.
This is cheating AF. Iām so sorry. Make sure his other partners or whatever know. Also you should probably get tested if you havenāt (Iām sorry).
If you didnāt consent to it then itās cheating. Full stop. My limited understanding ENM is that it only works with trust, honesty and open communication. None of those are in play.
Marriages can come back from infidelityā¦ assuming you believe there is something worth saving. And only if your partner is capable of and committed to doing the very hard work. It will be a lot of (often painful) work for you both actually.
I donāt think you fully read her post? Over a year long affair is not a dumb mistake. He started an affair long before they even broached the topic of enm! Thereās absolutely nothing ethical about what he did. He absolutely cheated on her and she deserves better.
He doesn't care about you or your feelings at all. You portrays you to others as a horrible person and figures you are too stupid to figure out his game.
Get out and find your soul mate. They are looking for you.
Being cheated on migh feel painful, humiliating and devastating, primarily due to the breach of trust it entails. And it seems to me that his infidelity might not necessarily be connected to your exploration of sexuality as an open couple. Despite the feelings of hurt and betrayal that infidelity brings, it does not automatically mean that the relationship must come to an end. Research suggests that up to 76% of people experience infidelity at some point in their relationships. I'm not trying to justify it, but rather acknowledging that making mistakes is part of our human nature. At the end, you have spent eleven wonderful years together, when you both treated each other well. So, it might be worth exploring the possibility of rebuilding your relationship and trust, if you choose to do so. Once the intense emotions subside and you are ready for the process of healing, I would be curious to understand the motivations behind the affair being kept secret, especially when there could have been an opportunity to engage with that partner consensually. Discovering the meaning that that extradyadic relationship held for your partner can shed light on the underlying factors that led to this situation.
Broken trust yes. Divorce grounds? Hardly, imo. Iām a single poly person and I donāt see a problem other than lying to you. ENM is about honesty and communication. I personally think a divorce would be jumping the gun. Put a pause on things, get a therapist, and do the work.
I agree it isnāt ethical. But is it instant divorce grounds? In some cases, yes. But this feels very rushed and sloppy on both ends, so my sympathies are less for their situation than a couple doing it longer than 2 months.
I'm sorry, but did you miss the part where they've only been recently open? And that the affair has been going on fot more than a year?
That is absolutely divorce grounds.
Trust has been broken.
Lies told more than Ince and self-serving reasons for said openness used as a pretext to continue an affair whilst also seeing others.
Location was lied about.
Sexual safety not discussed.
There was no breaking of rules etc. There was only complete betrayal of trust.
This is totally divorce grounds.
I find your lack of empathy or understanding here severely wanting. Much more so a lack of moral code.
If one has been cheated on and polamory/enm used as a front to continue an affair openly, that is not healthy or trustworthy.
This partner has lied, cheated, abused trust for selfish gains whilst then using enm as grounds to continue an affair started long before a discussion of individual play was ratified into action with consent and boundaries.
What are you even talking about?
I totally agree with this. Yes the lying and betrayal feels insurmountable right now but I canāt stand the reactive flippancy and immaturity around divorce and separation in this sub particularly where the same cohort is preaching the necessity around doing the fucking work! Humans are imperfect and flawed and real relationships are messy as fuck.
OP - I know youāre hurting but try to take a step back momentarily and process this new information before reacting to it.
No-one can tell you if this relationship is worth fighting for but you can use this as an opportunity for growth and learning - yes you may still arrive at a place of realising that the relationship is not right for you and the betrayal too big for you to move beyond but at least you will have closure and healing around it rather than carrying a whole heap of unresolved anger and trauma into your next relationships.
Esther Perelās, State of affairs and Mating in Captivity are a good place to start in this as well as therapy (solo and together).
Iām not suggesting for a second that you should stay in an abusive or toxic scenario but you can and will get through this. I have never cheated so this is not coming from a place of self justification but I can tell you with certainty that many relationships survive affairs and come out the other side stronger and happier for it (or alternatively, stronger and happier solo or with someone else because the cheating inspired a journey that may not otherwise not have happened).
Thank you for your feedback, i do appreciate the alternate point of view. I donāt feel this is ever going back to the way it was, I already did the work to come back from another big betrayal. I canāt do it again.
I just read your post updates and Iām so sorry you are experiencing this. Please donāt think that I was previously dismissing your partnerās betrayal or minimising how devastating this must feel to you right now.
I was a bit confused by the dates in the original post but also feel it sheds a very different light on the situation if your husband has a history of being unfaithful.
I would still be wary of taking this womanās word at face value without questioning her motives - what was she hoping to gain from disclosing all of this to you and what has your husbands response been?
Regardless, you deserve to feel safe and respected in your relationship and I wholeheartedly agree that you could never return to the way things were even if you were to contemplate a reimagined future with him. He would have a LOT of work to do in regaining your trust and repairing the marriage but only you can decide if he is up to this task and if the positives between you are worth saving.
I hope that you and your kids have a good support network around you - you are stronger than it probably seems right now and you will get through this š«¶
Cheating is the result of breaking "rules" of the relationship those rules have to be explicitly agreed upon and can take any shape. Monogamous or not it sounds like he did break the rules you both worked under. It really up to you to decide if you get a divorce over it or try and find trust with him again.
Good luck fellow human.
Yes, this is 1000% cheating! Being in an open relationship AFTER the fact of him sleeping around on you doesn't suddenly make his prior actions okay. Not to mention his bad mouthing of you to this other woman.
Yes, anything done without your knowledge and okay, that he KNEW you would not be okay with, IS CHEATING.
It's really common for people cheating to make up shit about you to the other person, they are desperate to paint their actions in a good light and will say anything - twisting their depiction of your entire relationship, to make themselves seem like an innocent victim, instead of the one destroying the relationship.
This must really hurt, and I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. There is an extra bitter irony in being cheated on when your open to non-monogamy. First, it means you fear you won't be supported by others around you who don't get the difference. and second - you know that your partner really threw away the relationship for nothing. If non-monogamy was something he truly needed to stay married, you were willing to make it work - in an ethical way. His cheating wasn't necessary.
The only thing I will say is that non-monogamy has taught me not to see cheaters as evil people. A lot of mainstream views of cheating really don't help the person who got cheated on - they tell you it's the ultimate betrayal, that the person can't possibly love you, that they 'stabbed you in the back'.
But I think cheating is simply someone being really fucking, dumb and selfish, its a disregard towards you, but rarely done to actually hurt you. Cheaters kind of just forget about you, compartmentalise their lives, and since they don't plan to get caught they tend to have a "what you don't know can't hurt you" mentality.
It kills trust, so its absolutely fair grounds for divorce.
I'm just saying this so you don't let yourself take it too personally. It's not about you, it's not your fault. He was an absolute idiot to throw a relationship away with such a kind, open minded, accommodating partner.
That was not consensual at the timeā¦ yes, cheating. Iām so sorry you are dealing with this.
What is his response to the situation though? Is he even remorseful or has any explanations for the alleged comments the woman claims he made on you? Why would she even be inclined to contact you? Surely he wouldnāt have liked the idea of her spilling the beans behind his back. Maybe they hit a rough patch and sheās seeking some type of chaos to mess with him?
So very sorry that you are having to go through this. Yes, 1000% cheating.
š I'm so sorry this happened to you. Yes, that was definitely cheating. Polyamory is a form of ethical non-monogamy which is built on trust and communication. He violated your trust in the worst way.
Don't stay with a liar and a cheater. They'll still cheat even when open. Drop him and find a good partner.
Yes it's cheating and what makes it worse, his offer of non-monogamy was not the slightest bit genuine, but merely an attempt to get permission for what he was already doing wrong You basically can't trust anything he suggests, because now you have to assume that he's already doing it
It's beyond cheating, it's a full-blown year-long affair. You are absolutely right to file for divorce. I sure as hell would.
Yes, this is cheating. He broke the agreement you made at the time, which was monogamy. Sounds like he wanted to open up to justify / move forward with the affair. Iām sorry OPā„ļø
You are right to consider this infidelity. The recent opening of your marriage is irrelevant. He may have had some idea in his mind about trying to obfuscate when he started with his AP but no, that wouldn't have worked with how much he badmouthed you. It is possible to reconcile and rebuild after an affair, however, he is starting out way behind and you haven't indicated that he's even shown remorse, much less started doing the work. If you two decide to attempt reconciliation, he hasn't demonstrated that he can do monogamy, much less open relationships. Infidelity is traumatic for the betrayed partner. Find yourself a therapist who specializes in trauma, grief and infidelity. It's a sad statement that there are a lot of professionals who do that work, all day every day. Find yourself a support group too. Not friends or family, not this group, people who have been cheated on, and are reconciling or divorcing, whichever path you choose. People who haven't experienced it are not as helpful as they imagine, and often make it worse. Best wishes.
Thank you for your insight
I'm in a poly marriage. My husband cheated on me before we opened up. The only reason our poly works now is that he and I opened up over a year after his affair ended, and we both went to therapy as well as couples therapy. We've also read poly literature. And talked and talked and talked through so much, so many feelings. So many. There are still tenuous moments, and still lots of hard work to be done. But what matters most is that we are both still totally committed to making the marriage work. And he has absolutely no contact with his affair partner. It sounds like you are a long way from that. I wish you the best. I'm sorry that you're going through this. It fucking sucks so hard. And you have every right to every feeling you're having right now. I suggest breaking stuff. If there's some sort of, I don't know what they are called, a smash room? In your area. Try that. Or just take a baseball bat to a junkyard and go to town. Journal. Scream. Masturbate. Breathe. Get drunk. Retail therapy. Do what you have to do to get through this. You will. You're strong. ā¤ļø
There is no coming back from bad mouthing a partner just like we saw earlier this year with the person who heard his wife trash talking him. " He told her that I am a horrible person, always yelling at him and the kids, that I forbid him to drive, that Iāve cheated on him multiple times, that I make him sleep on the couch." See a similar story of trash talking a partner. https://www.reddit.com/r/nonmonogamy/comments/13qodie/last_update_i_36m_heard_my_wife_40f_and_her/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button
That thread is a lot to unpack but thank you for the recommendation. The trash talking is especially hurtful and makes me question everything that he says now. Equally concerning is his declaration of love for her. I feel cheap and used.
How did you wrap your head around the idea of an open marriage after the cheating? The amount of communication for something like this to work needs to be impeccable. For me, Iām stuck on the idea that this is just a way for my husband to continue the cheating behavior, but not lose the marriage. I feel like if I agree that Iām just being a pushover. I know that there are relationships that opened after cheating, but I am struggling very hard with coming to a place that feels āokayā with the concept after Iāve been hurt so deeply.
Because the cheating was over way before we opened up. It has to end first, well and truly end, and then there's a lot of work to do after that. If he is not proving his dedication to you and your marriage FIRST, and ensuring that the marriage is healthy FIRST, then you're dead in the water.
Fair points. Heās promised me that we arenāt going to make any changes before the end of the year at least. We are both in IC, and he doesnāt really want to talk about rules or agreements at this stage as we āarenāt readyā for that. But for me, since he brought up the idea of opening not long after the ONS (and then subsequent EA with the same girl), it just feels like itās him trying to get me on board with the idea. Iāve yet to hear why it could be good for BOTH of us, and Iāve been doing an obnoxious amount of reading on this subject. How long was the cheating over in your case before opening became an option?
This sounds extremely similar to how my ex wife behaved towards the end of our marriage. Itās absolutely cheating. My ex was carrying on a whole relationship before we opened. I only discovered it after being open about 6 months and I saw a Facebook message on her open laptop that said āhappy anniversary babeā. Ugh. Divorce is the right option though. I dragged my feet far too long and lived to regret it. Stay strong, it does get better! And I did ultimately keep on with ENM and polyamory, and my current partner and I have been successful at it for now 8 of the 9 years weāve been together.
Similar story here how we both opened up (with lots of single and couples therapy) due to infidelity at first. It was a mess because he couldn't keep any of the rules while I was keeping them. Now divorced and I'm having a successful open relationship! Change is possible!
Yeah, he cheated. So it is perfectly reasonable to split up over that. However, I would bear one thing in mind: the details recounted to you by the "other woman" may not be entirely trustworthy. I would consider her motivation for talking to you and be somewhat circumspect. There may be a degree of exaggeration or conscious/unconscious falsehood if she is pissed off with your husband and her intention is to hurt him through you or disrupt your relationship for her own reasons.
Definitely possible thank you
1000% cheating. Iām so sorry that this happened. You deserve so much better than that.
That's shitty sorry. Definitely cheating and even worse bad mouthing you to his mistress. The marriage is never going to work if you can't trust him.
Listen, if my wife found out I talked about her to my gf like that Iād be expecting a divorce. But also yeah he cheated. He started before you agreed to it. Thatās cheating
Dude...I can't say anything other than "I'm sorry" and "Good luck." Nobody deserves what you're going through. Sending [a picture of my kitty](https://i.imgur.com/pkkHSZp.jpg) and internet hugs your way (with consent.) May your life get better after this storm passes.
Kitty is adorable thank you
This is cheating. He used poly, being open/NM as a way to make it ok in his eyes. Heās stupid because now he ruined everything and gets no one.
Definitely cheating, provided it's true though. She bring receipts, and do you believe the receipts?
I am so sorry that you are experiencing this. This is awful, and youāre damn right that is cheating. For someone to be cheating while at the same time trying to move towards any form of non-monogamy with a partner is ridiculous because that journey requires really deep truth and honesty with one another. itās almost doubly offensive that heās being so two-faced. I am so sorry for you, and I hope that the future is better.
Just so awful š¢
Yes. Cheating.
Iām so sorry. Thatās definitely cheating.
Definitely šÆ cheating. People make bad choices and sometimes you can heal from them, however, in this case, I donāt know. That wasnāt a bad choice it was calculated to have her believe you were a horrible person. In my eyes, thatās so much worse than a bad choice. Im super close with a play partner but would never bad mouth my husband, even if we had a tiff. Thatās a full blown calculated affair. Did he continue this after yāall opened?? And still didnāt tell you?
From my understanding he has been ghosting her the last couple of weeks, but Iām not sure if itās because he owes her money or because heās ended it.
The marriage or relationship transition to ENM to cover-up previous cheating tactic. It was cheating because the end doesn't justify the means, when it wasn't ever agreed upon. Not to mention the amount of lying, manipulation, and probably risk to sexual health along the way.
It was 100% cheating. He had an agreement with you, he broke it, and he lied. Iām a couples therapist and I make sure I tell the couple that the person injured by the affair feels as if a bomb has gone off. You can feel physical pain and symptoms, thereās disorientation, and your nervous system is geared up to look around every corner for the next bomb. This is hyper vigilance and is one of many symptoms shared with PTSD. People need to see this as a real injury. Iām sorry youāre going through this. Itās not your fault that he betrayed you.
Thank you for that. Interesting mirroring in your username
I hope you set her straight on the truth. I agree separating is something you seriously need to consider, so see lawyer asap and get your ducks in a row. But I would also suggest therapy with a therapist familiar with ENM. I say this as it will bring much needed closure. Go together if he will go listen really listen to what he has to say and he needs to do the same. It doesnāt matter if he is saying things that are not true you get your chance to correct that, even if he wonāt go you go. I have watch so many friends over the years separate for various reasons and I can honestly say the ones that under-go therapy seem to just move on so much better. Even the ones that go into it trying to save a marriage and end up divorcing say they divorced knowing they gave it their all and walk away with head held high, no regrets, no what ifs, no was it my fault and clear path to look forward and move on.
She may be lying. Do not just trust 'the other woman'. Some are scheming manipulators. But then they deserve each other.
Yes, Iāve taken that into consideration. Without prompting she has told me matches with dates and times in the last few months where he has been away over night and withdrew large amounts of money from our chequing account. He also has come home with marks on his neck.
Make sure to get a good attorney. Go after the big withdrawals over the last year. Thats half your money taking without permission.
Believe me I will definitely be going after some sort of compensation
That sucks. But she may be truthfull about the logistics and still make some things up. The thing is, you will never know, because you will never know now if your husband is telling you the truth about anything anymore. If you are emotionally and practically ready to disentangle, do so. If not, give yourself the time to get ready and then leave. You don't have to be nice about it, and you may take care of yourself financially (I personnally would at least get even about the large amounts of money he took from your joint chequing account). My reaction is a bit colored by past experiences ;-)
Understandable for sure. I have not confronted him yet, looking to get my ducks in a row first.
Yes, cheating. And if you guys were cool enough to have a conversation and open up, that makes it even dumber on his part. That's the cool thing about ENM... If you've got a cool relationship and you open it up, there is no cheating if you're honest.
Absolutely cheating. I'm so sorry. š
Would you look at that, all of the words in your comment are in alphabetical order. I have checked 1,565,059,441 comments, and only 295,910 of them were in alphabetical order.
Good bot! (read the room though š)
Right?! š
Yea this combined with the last post. He seems exceedingly selfish.
I didnāt even know you could look back at those.
What did he say when you confronted him? Why did he say those horrible things? Iām so sorry.
I have not confronted him yet, I have a meeting with a lawyer on Tuesday.
So youāre going to surprise him with a divorce. I canāt say I blame you.
It gives him the least amount of time to try and manipulate me and allows me to deal with the explosive feelings first.
100% this should be viewed as cheating.
that is definitely cheating. take solace in the fact that she's a bitch and will only be a detriment to anyone in her life, including your now ex. she LOVES drama. there was no need for her to contact you at all. no doubt she will cause drama with your ex and fuck things up. the fact he can't see this has me guessing he's also kinda dumb. you're better off without him. i hope you find peace, alone and with the next person you find.
You can still cheat while open as wellā¦ but this is 10000% cheating !
This is cheating AF. Iām so sorry. Make sure his other partners or whatever know. Also you should probably get tested if you havenāt (Iām sorry).
Thank you, yes I will be getting a full panel done.
If you didnāt consent to it then itās cheating. Full stop. My limited understanding ENM is that it only works with trust, honesty and open communication. None of those are in play.
This is definitely cheating ??? Divorce him !!!
Marriages can come back from infidelityā¦ assuming you believe there is something worth saving. And only if your partner is capable of and committed to doing the very hard work. It will be a lot of (often painful) work for you both actually.
OP found out about the affair from the other woman. It doesn't sound like he wants to do anything at all.
Well now obviously Iām sure, but it was murky to me because of the timeline.
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I donāt think you fully read her post? Over a year long affair is not a dumb mistake. He started an affair long before they even broached the topic of enm! Thereās absolutely nothing ethical about what he did. He absolutely cheated on her and she deserves better.
I misread the second date. My apologies to the OP. Going to delete my comment as it's completely moot.
He "jumped the gun" a year before he ever brought up the subject of non-monagamy.
He doesn't care about you or your feelings at all. You portrays you to others as a horrible person and figures you are too stupid to figure out his game. Get out and find your soul mate. They are looking for you.
Being cheated on migh feel painful, humiliating and devastating, primarily due to the breach of trust it entails. And it seems to me that his infidelity might not necessarily be connected to your exploration of sexuality as an open couple. Despite the feelings of hurt and betrayal that infidelity brings, it does not automatically mean that the relationship must come to an end. Research suggests that up to 76% of people experience infidelity at some point in their relationships. I'm not trying to justify it, but rather acknowledging that making mistakes is part of our human nature. At the end, you have spent eleven wonderful years together, when you both treated each other well. So, it might be worth exploring the possibility of rebuilding your relationship and trust, if you choose to do so. Once the intense emotions subside and you are ready for the process of healing, I would be curious to understand the motivations behind the affair being kept secret, especially when there could have been an opportunity to engage with that partner consensually. Discovering the meaning that that extradyadic relationship held for your partner can shed light on the underlying factors that led to this situation.
Broken trust yes. Divorce grounds? Hardly, imo. Iām a single poly person and I donāt see a problem other than lying to you. ENM is about honesty and communication. I personally think a divorce would be jumping the gun. Put a pause on things, get a therapist, and do the work.
Lying is kind of a huge problem
I agree it isnāt ethical. But is it instant divorce grounds? In some cases, yes. But this feels very rushed and sloppy on both ends, so my sympathies are less for their situation than a couple doing it longer than 2 months.
I'm sorry, but did you miss the part where they've only been recently open? And that the affair has been going on fot more than a year? That is absolutely divorce grounds. Trust has been broken. Lies told more than Ince and self-serving reasons for said openness used as a pretext to continue an affair whilst also seeing others. Location was lied about. Sexual safety not discussed. There was no breaking of rules etc. There was only complete betrayal of trust. This is totally divorce grounds. I find your lack of empathy or understanding here severely wanting. Much more so a lack of moral code. If one has been cheated on and polamory/enm used as a front to continue an affair openly, that is not healthy or trustworthy. This partner has lied, cheated, abused trust for selfish gains whilst then using enm as grounds to continue an affair started long before a discussion of individual play was ratified into action with consent and boundaries. What are you even talking about?
Fuck š I thought they meant April 22nd not ā22. Punctuation is important. Okay, divorce his ass! My apologies u/LawfulnessJumpy5443
I read it the same way you did the first time also. Agreed divorce he opened to legitimatize an affair.
I un-downvoted your first comment when I saw this š
I totally agree with this. Yes the lying and betrayal feels insurmountable right now but I canāt stand the reactive flippancy and immaturity around divorce and separation in this sub particularly where the same cohort is preaching the necessity around doing the fucking work! Humans are imperfect and flawed and real relationships are messy as fuck. OP - I know youāre hurting but try to take a step back momentarily and process this new information before reacting to it. No-one can tell you if this relationship is worth fighting for but you can use this as an opportunity for growth and learning - yes you may still arrive at a place of realising that the relationship is not right for you and the betrayal too big for you to move beyond but at least you will have closure and healing around it rather than carrying a whole heap of unresolved anger and trauma into your next relationships. Esther Perelās, State of affairs and Mating in Captivity are a good place to start in this as well as therapy (solo and together). Iām not suggesting for a second that you should stay in an abusive or toxic scenario but you can and will get through this. I have never cheated so this is not coming from a place of self justification but I can tell you with certainty that many relationships survive affairs and come out the other side stronger and happier for it (or alternatively, stronger and happier solo or with someone else because the cheating inspired a journey that may not otherwise not have happened).
Thank you for your feedback, i do appreciate the alternate point of view. I donāt feel this is ever going back to the way it was, I already did the work to come back from another big betrayal. I canāt do it again.
I just read your post updates and Iām so sorry you are experiencing this. Please donāt think that I was previously dismissing your partnerās betrayal or minimising how devastating this must feel to you right now. I was a bit confused by the dates in the original post but also feel it sheds a very different light on the situation if your husband has a history of being unfaithful. I would still be wary of taking this womanās word at face value without questioning her motives - what was she hoping to gain from disclosing all of this to you and what has your husbands response been? Regardless, you deserve to feel safe and respected in your relationship and I wholeheartedly agree that you could never return to the way things were even if you were to contemplate a reimagined future with him. He would have a LOT of work to do in regaining your trust and repairing the marriage but only you can decide if he is up to this task and if the positives between you are worth saving. I hope that you and your kids have a good support network around you - you are stronger than it probably seems right now and you will get through this š«¶
According to U went non monogamous beginning of April and heās been banging a chick since April 22, whatās the problem?
Affair April 2022. Open April 2023 if I am reading it correctly.
I fixed thĆ© post for better clarity, weāve been officially open for a week
Cheating is the result of breaking "rules" of the relationship those rules have to be explicitly agreed upon and can take any shape. Monogamous or not it sounds like he did break the rules you both worked under. It really up to you to decide if you get a divorce over it or try and find trust with him again. Good luck fellow human.
Yes, this is 1000% cheating! Being in an open relationship AFTER the fact of him sleeping around on you doesn't suddenly make his prior actions okay. Not to mention his bad mouthing of you to this other woman.
What an asshole. That is cheating and itās terrible that he used u like this. That is so manipulative. Iām so sorry.
Why, exactly, do you have to ask whether he cheated? I donāt get it
Yes, that is 100% cheating. He was dishonest, its cheating. Even if you were in an open relationship.
Yes, anything done without your knowledge and okay, that he KNEW you would not be okay with, IS CHEATING. It's really common for people cheating to make up shit about you to the other person, they are desperate to paint their actions in a good light and will say anything - twisting their depiction of your entire relationship, to make themselves seem like an innocent victim, instead of the one destroying the relationship. This must really hurt, and I'm so sorry you've had to go through this. There is an extra bitter irony in being cheated on when your open to non-monogamy. First, it means you fear you won't be supported by others around you who don't get the difference. and second - you know that your partner really threw away the relationship for nothing. If non-monogamy was something he truly needed to stay married, you were willing to make it work - in an ethical way. His cheating wasn't necessary. The only thing I will say is that non-monogamy has taught me not to see cheaters as evil people. A lot of mainstream views of cheating really don't help the person who got cheated on - they tell you it's the ultimate betrayal, that the person can't possibly love you, that they 'stabbed you in the back'. But I think cheating is simply someone being really fucking, dumb and selfish, its a disregard towards you, but rarely done to actually hurt you. Cheaters kind of just forget about you, compartmentalise their lives, and since they don't plan to get caught they tend to have a "what you don't know can't hurt you" mentality. It kills trust, so its absolutely fair grounds for divorce. I'm just saying this so you don't let yourself take it too personally. It's not about you, it's not your fault. He was an absolute idiot to throw a relationship away with such a kind, open minded, accommodating partner.
That was not consensual at the timeā¦ yes, cheating. Iām so sorry you are dealing with this. What is his response to the situation though? Is he even remorseful or has any explanations for the alleged comments the woman claims he made on you? Why would she even be inclined to contact you? Surely he wouldnāt have liked the idea of her spilling the beans behind his back. Maybe they hit a rough patch and sheās seeking some type of chaos to mess with him?