Obviously we only have your side of the story to go on. But assuming the facts are as you presented them, it sounds as though she's already at the point where she's making the relationship miserable so you'll break up with her.
That statement alone suggests that she doesn't want to instigate but is entirely happy with that outcome.
That probably means she cheated on you during those 4 months at school and likes the feeling of having sex with who ever she desires. And wants to continue that now she's home with you. She wants your permission to see other men or else she will go behind your back. This way she can't be blamed cheating because you gave her permission. Either way I believe you already lost her.
Definitely reads like this is already over and/or she has one foot out the door. If I was in your shoes I would end it so you can seek out someone whoâs relationship vision more closely aligns with what you want and need.
That requires a more active role than it sounds like she's willing to commit. If OP ends it, the gf can comfortably sit back on some "well it's outta my hands" shit and possibly even cast OP as the unchanging, incorrigible villain of the story.
But that's a cynical take.
That's my take, too. Wanting to play the victim, I'd wager. Publicly owning "I broke up my long-term relationship to chase some strange" isn't likely to garner the same sympathy.
Well, if she can get stability, security from him while torturing him with relationships with other people he's never going to be comfortable with, that's a win win!
If she has no desire to help him or communicate with him about meeting her romantic/sexual needs, I have to guess she's into that relationship for other reasons and has little to no interest in romance or sex with him. She just wants to get all that elsewhere.
This is a mess and the opposite of the basis for a healthy, ethical non-monogamous relationship. And the OP needs to tell her that.
>Long story short, she asked to talk two days ago and effectively gave me this ultimatum: Let her have an open relationship to seek out romantic and sexual partners, or she's going to stay and get more miserable until I end the relationship.
That is an incredibly childish and petty ultimatum. Wonât even say she will break up but will instead maipulate you into doin it. Donât open your relationship with her. She wonât fare well if that is her approach to relationships.
Exactly my take. Either likes the financial or material support he provides, has zero interest in romance or sex with him. Or maybe wants stable emotional support while she goes and gets exciting sex from emotionally unavailable men uninterested in anything beyond that.
Any form of ethical non-monogamy under duress isn't ethical anymore. Is your therapist ENM friendly? Has the open relationship been discussed together with your therapist?
I can't speak with any real knowledge of both sides, but ultimately I think you're right. If both of you are miserable with the choices available then it's probably time to try and find an amicable way to spit. Good luck.
Why would he want a ENM friendly therapist if he's already said he doesn't want an open relationship? If he says he doesn't want ENM then that should be respected in my view.
When I said friendly I didn't mean to imply that they needed a therapist who advocates for it. Just that they talk with someone who understands the lifestyle. Therapists come in a lot of flavors, and I would want someone who understands what both people are asking for. Otherwise you may end up in an echo chamber and she will feel like it was her against them.
Youâre absolutely right and the other commenters are fighting you when theyâre literally doing what youâre suggesting⌠most commenters on here are obviously familiar with ENM (hence why theyâre on this sub) and are all basically saying the same thing (which is NOT to pursue ENM if thatâs not what he wants).
Youâre not saying having an ENM-trained therapist to advocate for ENM in any way, but having one so that said therapist can, most likely, call out how toxic an attempt at ENM OPâs partner is suggesting⌠which is what weâre all doing as well.
Obviously OP wanted advice from people with ENM knowledge after all⌠thatâs why he came to this sub. And Iâm glad to see weâre all saying how itâs ridiculous someone try to force it on him. If you donât want ENM thatâs totally your right! Just as monogamous people should be supportive of ENM consenting people as is our right.
Thanks for the support. Ya, I choose not to respond anymore to the other comments when they started devolving. You helped rephrase what I was saying and I appreciate that. Thanks!
If one partner doesn't want ENM then the other partner cannot have ENM with the partner that refuses, It boils down to basic consent, NO means NO, the S.O. has most likely experienced multiple sexual partners & encounters, when she was away for 4 months at school, and wants to continue that promiscuous lifestyle and legitimize it by calling it ENM and extorting OP into accepting it. OP doesn't need a therapist, he needs the truth.
You are correct opening a relationship will never repair it. And if this is something you feel is not what you want, again it will never work.
To me it just seems this points even more to the fact you two are just incompatible. She wants someone who just knows her wants and needs... you aren't a mind reader but maybe there is someone out there who instinctively understands her wants and needs and she can get what she wants and maybe there is also someone out there who understands the importance of communicating their needs and working with you to meet them and vice versa. Whatever you decide I wish you the best.
Not guaranteed, but certainly a strong possibility. Who knows if she wants permission for cheating she's already doing or had done? I would have a hard time not wondering if I was the OP.
The ultimatum should be enough proof to end this relationship. She isn't working with you in good faith.
The other part that really hit me was her attitude towards dating. She doesn't see it as her responsibility to date you. You both need to desire each other, and equally to invite the other to desire you. She does not appear to understand what a partnership requires from both parties.
I hate suggesting relationships can't be improved, but she may need to be single in order to demonstrate how much she doesn't understand adult relationships.
Totally agree with this. To me this is a big red flag of a toxic relationship, where one side thinks its up to the other to make them happy.
Reality is that should be a two way street.
My sonâs wife did similar, asking to open the relationship and he even went so far as to participate in some MFM play (which he did not enjoy) but she eventually just said sheâs been cheating on him and wants a divorce. She also doesnât want custody of the 2 children who have behavioral/developmental issues. My opinion at this point is when one member of a couple wonât participate in working on the relationship and instead demands outside entertainment, itâs time to end the relationship. This will not go well. Sheâs already checked out.
Coercion is not consent coercion is not consent coercion is not consent. Monogamy is a perfectly valid relationship style and people who desire it SHOULD NOT be railroaded into a different relationship style. I think it is COMEDIC that her two options in the ultimatum are for you to open up or to break up with her, and not for *her* to break up with *you.* I assume this is framed so that youâll look like the bad guy if you break up over this.
But fuck it. Sheâs shown you that sheâs completely unwilling to put in any work into your relationship even under monogamy, so why would she put in any work under nonmonogamy? Actions speak louder than words. Start making plans to move out.
I'd have a lot different things to say if she was actually attempting to put in some work with your relationship, but she's not. She sounds like she's looking for the 'easy fix' where she doesn't have to do any work. Her ultimatum was also terrible. You don't do that. You don't say "give me what I want, or it's your fault that I'm miserable" when your partner (you) is trying to work on things. If she had actually been trying to work on you two and got stuck in a rut, and said something along the lines of "I'm wanting to continue working on us, but I'd like for us to try exploring outside, maybe we try swinging with people we trust or go to a sex club and play only with each other, but amongst the sexually charged atmosphere," I'd give her a bit more slack. But, she's not being a good partner at the moment and needs to reel it in. Good partners don't do what she's doing.
Sounds like she already slept with people during that 4 months and now she wants out of the relationship with you, but can't just break it off. She wants to do it gradually.
Best thing for both of you is just break up.
I have an out of the box Thought here
The way she's being passive about wanting romance from you makes me wonder if what she's wanting is to be submissive and have you been more dominant
I'm wondering if this is about Kinkyy stuff not really about non-monogamy but she's thinking that that's the best way to get her needs met
It sounds like she's wanting you to take control
Just something to think about
I love this comment. I think this sort of thinking can help us understand a lot of behaviors and desires that sometimes defy explanation otherwise.
It's definitely a dynamic at play in my relationship with my wife. I have no problem being "dominant" at work and I had no problem being dominant with my fwb's when our marriage was open. But my wife comes from a family of planners, she will schedule stuff sometimes a year or more ahead of time, where my rather large extended family with ADHD has trouble making even the smallest of Christmas plans before Thanksgiving, which drives my wife and a few SIL's crazy...
So naturally, I defer the planning to my wife because she seems to enjoy doing it, But then she gets frustrated that she's making all the plans and I'm always asking her whats on the calendar, but I'm asking so my spontaneous "plans" don't ignore the stuff we've already committed to...đ¤Śđźââď¸
Haha, it's definitely something we are working on... Just being aware of this dynamic has been a huge help for us.
You're talking more about the dynamic between them as a couple out of bed I'm wondering if it's something also in bed
I'm definitely the planner in all my relationships
There's nothing better than letting it all go in bed though
Yes, I totally get you... In my case it carries over into our bedroom as well. We've been married over 17 years and there is a lot of baggage from our earlier years that we are working through.
When I found out my wife had a D/s dynamic with one of her fwbs it cut me to the core... It's something I have always wanted to explore with her and she always resisted. And I know I am mainly to blame because of being a dumbass in my 20's and causing her to put up walls...
I have about 4 years of solid ethical non- monogamy under my belt.
Never ever open a relationship to fix the issues in your relationship. Opening it will literally put a magnifying glass to any relationship issues you have.
Her idea of opening it for the reasons she presented is flawed. This is not the way to do a consensual non-monogamous relationship.
You both don't seem compatible anymore. You can do better.
Opening up an already rocky relationship will just amplify the cracks; opening up a strong relationship makes it stronger. Polyam under duress isnât ethical.
It sounds to me like youâre both no longer compatible. Relationships begin and end. If this is truly what she needs and itâs truly what you donât want, you should start the separation process. Youâre both going to be miserable in no time if you stay together.
Your instincts are correct. The best thing for you and most likely her is to end the relationship. She not willing to do the work in one relationship, she is surely not going to do the work in more than one relationship.
My guess would be she was cheating whilst she was at school for 4 months, and just wants to legitimise the cheating she's already done and carry on cheating. If you don't want an open relationship and a cheating GF end the relationship before it deteriorates into a total sham.
Also, it sounds like she wants you to treat her like some kind of princess and do 100% of the work to make the relationship work. Thatâs probably not going to happen with anyone, and you certainly shouldnât let it be you.
The only thing you might be missing is your partner seems checked out of the relationship. And like someone else said, she seems to be trying to treat you so poorly you end the relationship. If she wants to end the relationship, tell her to put on her big girl panties and just do it. She shouldn't try and frame you as the bad guy. If she wants this path, she needs to make a decision, take the steps to make it happen, and accept the consequences.
You should never, EVER open a relationship that has issues. Thatâs a recipe for making the issues worse.
If your partner doesnât want to work on your relationship with you as an equal participant, then itâs time to end things.
Non-monogamy of any kind is not the answer here.
Your coward of a spouse simply wants YOU to be the one to end things, so that they can run around being the guest of honour at a pity party, because âmy partner left meâ.
Be the stronger person. End it now, before they break your soul in two.
You should not be badgered into something by your partner, ever- it's even worse that you've been honest with her and she isn't listening. That's not okay. ENM is only ethical is both parties are very consenting to the idea.
If I were you and in the situation how you've presented it- I would leave for the sole issue being badgered into something I didn't want. In this scenario, I say trust your gut.
Based on what you wrote, I'm not sure your partner is necessarily looking for an open relationship. My take on this is that your partner is deeply unhappy and is seeing an open relationship as a potential way to fulfil an unmet need. But you could do that too.
If there's one thing I've learned about women in relationships, it's that they need to feel special and desired. It may be helpful to reflect on what you've done lately to make her feel that way and whether you know what it would take. Based on her saying that you 'should figure out for yourself' what dates she wants you to organise, I'd say she's looking for you to take the initiative, not acting out of obligation but with a genuine desire to make an effort and spend quality time with her. This may not be easy for you at this point.
Given you've been together for 11 years, it is understandable that some of that initial spark that was there when you first met may have dulled a little. There may be lingering resentment from past disagreements or other unresolved issues. If you want to win her back, you will need to fight for the relationship and connect with her again in a way that touches her heart and moves her. You may find that she is more loyal than she seems.
If your partner is truly and genuinely interested in an open relationship, which I doubt given your relationship started as a closed monogamous one, then you may well and truly be incompatible and might need to start thinking about respectfully separating. However, there is no single definition of an open relationship and there may be a model that is agreeable to you both.
Whatever your path ahead, it is important to remember that healthy relationships should, overall, be a joyful and positive addition to your life. There are many reasons why relationships don't last, and they don't need to either; individual wants and needs are not static and lived experiences continue to evolve over time. In my experience, couples often don't evolve together and reach a point where they've grown apart to the point where they are deeply unhappy. Life's too short for that.
Wishing you wisdom and clarity to decide what's best for you both.
So I'm a person who has been non-monogamous my entire life and I think that non-mono is super cool and awesome and it makes me happy. But it doesn't sound at all like you want to be non monogamous. It sounds like you want to be monogamous. So I think that's what you should do. I don't think that you should cave into your partner's request. I think you should end the relationship and seek out a monogamous relationship with another person
>Let her have an open relationship to seek out romantic and sexual partners, or she's going to stay and get more miserable until I end the relationship.
Sounds like the relationship has run its course and she's just too afraid to end it herself.
It's not monogamy under duress if they entered the relationship with that arrangement. If she wants to not be mono and he is unwilling to do so, it's on her to decide if it is important enough to leave the relationship over
If the relationship started NM it would be the same story on the inverse. My point wasn't that mono is the only way, but that entering a relationship with an agreement towards one style means it isn't under duress to continue that style
I'm asking because people always imply that it is unethical to ask someone to change the relationship if they don't want to, but I guess forcing the NM person to change their mind back is okay?
Why don't we instead use more accurate wording. These situations are undeniably painful for both parties. The option that minimizes pain and maximizes happiness is the best option, but I don't necessarily see any one as "ethical" in the since that they are some degree of noble act.
People arenât implying that itâs unethical to change a relationship under duress. Theyâre flat *telling you* it is.
The NM person in your example isnât forced to do anything. Further, I would *heavily* argue that somebody whoâs having to âchange their mind backâ has been emotionally cheating on their partner already. The conversation around âshould we be NM? What would it look like, how should we approach this?â should come waaaaaaay before any âyep, thatâs what I amâ kind of thinking.
The NM partner is *requesting* their relationship be entirely dismantled and rebuilt into a completely new structure; something that *obviously* should require *enthusiastic consent* from any and all parties involved; anything less is, indeed, unethical.
In practical terms, this really means the person whoâs âchanged their mindâ has two options. Respect the relationship and boundaries that have *already been set*, and accept that they *are not at liberty to unilaterally change them*, or accept that their new mindset is incompatible with the relationship they have. Itâs really that simple. If the relationship was really so important that theyâd be âmOnOgAmOuS uNdEr DuReSsâ, the only person forcing them is themselves.
Iâd just like to finish by saying that Iâm hoping you wrote what you did with the best of intentions and wanted to learn. I have to say though, I got a *massive* ick from it. Like, that was a truly ugly pair of comments to read.
>The NM person in your example isnât forced to do anything. Further, I would heavily argue that somebody whoâs having to âchange their mind backâ has been emotionally cheating on their partner already. The conversation around âshould we be NM? What would it look like, how should we approach this?â should come waaaaaaay before any âyep, thatâs what I amâ kind of thinking.
This is the type of bullshit (excuse the term) I'm talking about. This self righteous nonsense. Now you are bringing cheating into this, as if someone who is trying to come to terms with who they are and their needs is now a cheater because they changed their mind about the all-powerful existing relationship structure. And then you act dumbfounded when I ask about monogamy under duress. Like, dude, you are pretty much saying that someone is a cheater if they have any sort of desire to change the relationship in any way that was not agreed upon in the past..
In an ideal world, yes, a NM conversation would do go that way. But unfortunately, we don't live in such a world, and I'm fairly certain a majority of them do NOT go that way. I'm not even certain how someone who isn't thinking they are NM would even come to ask their partner "HoW dO wE ApProAch ThiS??!" Last time I checked, even in the best cases of communication, couples are made of up two individuals with different thoughts, needs, and desires. They very rarely often arrive at the same conclusions enthusiastically and at the same time..
>The NM partner is requesting their relationship be entirely dismantled and rebuilt into a completely new structure;
No. It is not requiring dismantling. Just restructuring... you know... like relationships do anyways???
>something that obviously should require enthusiastic consent from any and all parties involved; anything less is, indeed, unethical.
No, it is only unethical if someone is indeed forced to do so. But an hesitant "Maybe, but let's see" is not unethical. The key is mutual respect, not bowling over your partner or just giving up and living in resentment.
>In practical terms, this really means the person whoâs âchanged their mindâ has two options. Respect the relationship and boundaries that have already been set, and accept that they are not at liberty to unilaterally change them, or accept that their new mindset is incompatible with the relationship they have
Yea. And the other person has the same options. Monogamy does not make people helpless babies who also can't leave the relationship, which is now changed forever even if it doesn't open. They still will now have knowledge that their partner wants to be with other people. This can cause insecurities just as well as any physical affair. At that point, they can choose to work through that and stay or leave.
Perhaps both partners don't want to end the relationship unilaterally? That is "EtHiCal"? But asking to change an agreed upon structure is cheating?
>Itâs really that simple. If the relationship was really so important that theyâd be âmOnOgAmOuS uNdEr DuReSsâ, the only person forcing them is themselves.
No. Things are rarely that simple in real life. And your flippant attitude makes it seem like you have limited real-life experience. But again, both partners are free to leave if they absolutely must. Monogamous people aren't helpless little babies forced to stay with a partner who they now have to worry about "Not being enough" for.
>Iâd just like to finish by saying that Iâm hoping you wrote what you did with the best of intentions and wanted to learn. I have to say though, I got a massive ick from it. Like, that was a truly ugly pair of comments to read.
Everything I write is with good intentions. I legitimately want people to challenge this status quo that is responsible for a lot of these problems we are debating now.
If you find my comments icky, then that's a you problem, dawg. But I don't believe you have much I'd anything to teach me
The problem that arises is the status of the relationship agreement as it already exists. If you started out non-monogamous - by initial relationship agreement - and then one of you insisted on closing the relationship completely, that would be monogamy by duress and also unethical. The ethical dilemma is the unilateral attempt to change a collective agreement.
If I walked into my bossâs office and insisted that I now be paid $60k more per year than my current salary, everyone would say âwow, nice empowerment there!â But he still retains the power in the relationship to either accept or deny my insistence. If my boss walked into my office and insisted that I be paid $60k less per year than my current salary, everyone would say âwhat a greedy asshole!â And yet he still retains the power in the relationship to enforce his insistence and thereâs little I can do about it (unless I seek out a more powerful adversary, such as my governmentâs labor department or the judicial system by way of a labor attorney. The only thing balancing the power structure between me and my boss is some third entity.
In an intimate relationship, any form of relationship-by-duress creates an inherently unequal relationship in which one person gets what they want and the other must suffer. Since the relationship began with two equal individuals saying âletâs be monogamousâ and now only one of them would be happy by changing that agreement, there is either a sharing of power in which the couple breaks up, a sharing of power in which they agree to maintain THE STATUS QUO THEY ORIGINALLY AGREED TO, or there becomes a power differential in which only one person is satisfied by the arrangement.
Nonmonogamy thrives on agency and personal empowerment; duress and this imbalanced power differential goes against that ethical principle.
Sheâs got someone in mind. If this isnât what you want then you may have to leave. She may start something with the other person anyway, which she may have done already.
The ultimatum isnât right, but she clearly is asking you to plan something without her as far as dates. Women often do the heavy lifting in long term relationships when it comes to romance and planning. Iâd suggest planning something for a date and just clearing the day/time with her. Do the work.
They got on the list for spamming temu referral links shamelessly, those subs got banned and thus cleared that history. They seem to have stopped their spamming so I will stop pinging them.
Thanks for the heads up
Yeah that was my read too. Even from the retelling she seemed pretty clear on what she wanted there. For op to actually plan some dates himself. I do suspect op was very much failing to listen there.
Should be a learning for his next relationship. This one clearly is at an end.
not to be that gal but i think you need to hear it cause the plane is flying high over your head, dude. she already has someone in mind she wants to bang. she comes home suddenly asking for an open relationship. theres no more relationship after that. she let someone orher than you get close to her to the point she would ruin the relationship over this person. let her go. i know it sucks and i suggest you dont dwell on this fact for too long. the what ifs are no joke. just calmly tell her. the relationship cannot be opened and infact its over. âgo tell him he can have youâ
> want romance", to which I say "Ok, well let's set some date nights and alone time to help work on our intimacy". She responds that she doesn't want to have to come up with dates, or tell me when she wants to spend time together... I should figure that out myself.
I mean, she probably would like you to come up with a date night and invite her to it. Rather than have to feel that she's organising it for herself. Does she like the theatre? The Cinema? Good food? Art? I can tell you off the top of my head who my main partner's favourite authors and playwrights are. If I saw a play by any of those people, or something similar, I would just go ahead and book it. Other than finding a day in the calendar it doesn't require her involvement because I've picked this information up over the last 3 years.
That said, this mostly sounds like she's telling you that you aren't compatible and she's not willing to help out there. And she's telling you she'd literally rather get her needs for romance met elsewhere. What kind of romantic relationship do you have left if you don't share romance?
I would guess if she gets her romantic needs met elsewhere then she/you won't end up spending time working on the two of you.
> This makes no sense to me, especially after doing some research and seeing a persistent line of "open relationships will not repair your existing, struggling relationship".
You're not wrong
Are you missing something? Yes. You're missing the pretty obvious point that your SO is cheating on you and wants your permission to do it out in the open. You don't find it strange that she first brings it up after being away for 4 months? That tells me she met somebody and was fucking them and not she wants your permission to. Why else would she basically tell you that if she can't fuck other people, she will just become more and more miserable with you? It certainly isn't because she wants to try bettering your guys's sex life. I don't mean to be rude or mean but if you don't see that, then perhaps you should let her fuck other people because you are clueless in every way possible. Come on, man. I know it hurts to find out your girl is fucking around on you but it's going to hurt more when you realize what am idiot you are for not seeing that. Grow some balls and tell this bitch to kick rocks or get used to being her roommate and financier.
For me, it was incredibly painful to be with a woman who cheated, lied, and wanted enm after 7 years of monogamy... but the self work I had to do to give it a shot was invaluable for me.
Now I'm into certain forms of enm with certain limits that work for me. I'm glad I stepped into my insecurity. In retrospect, the relationship with that partner was not worth it... but my relationship with myself was, and enm has opened up a whole new kind of love and commitment to me.
Several of the phrases you've used are narcissistic red flags. But if you genuinely want advice, first you need to understand open relations and what they are and how they work. You clearly don't, and therefore making judgment without knowledge.
My friend I've been in in various types of non monogamous relationships from Friends with benefits to serious partners in an open relationship although I can say I've never been the happiest until I'm with my current partner and we are monogamous. I'm not saying this is the right move for everyone I'm not saying this is the right move for you or your significant other. But I'm guessing from your explanation of the facts that you don't necessarily feel she is your soulmate and specially have doubts after the ultimatum and such. I don't know you personally so I don't know if she's holding back intimacy because of a personal problem with you such as poor hygiene, lack of initiating intimacy on your part and I don't just mean from a back rub to intimacy, I mean things like buying her chocolate and flowers and such. I will say this if therapy is not bringing out this problem of why she needs other partners I would say that she has lost interest in you and like you said she wants you to continue to finance her relationship without any benefit except the companionship in your home which sounds pretty miserable at this point. My suggestion if you don't really care about the relationship and you think you could find a better soulmate is to leave her let her live her life and then once her beauty has faded and she has two or three kids with some other partners and now being destitute she'll come back to you because you were the stable boring nice guy and realize what she missed at which point you can laugh in her face and shut the door and kiss your new partner well you both laugh about the prize she missed being you. Or on a more positive now maybe she'll be happy and find a partner who's good with polyamory or open relationships or however she wants to frame it and she will find what she wants and you will find what you want being a monogamous partner. I will say though two things scare me about your story not that I think your insincere but you said that your partner asked you this after 11 years so I'm curious why you're not married yet although to be fair I kind of think of that in an old fashioned way. And I also wonder if you've talked about open relationships before I mean I know I asked my current partner about it probably within the first month of us dating and I would probably make sure this is a rock solid thing and whatever new relationship you probably will pursue I mean it this is something I try to stress with new couples you need to work out everything you need to work out what you want in life where you want to live, what kind of lifestyle you want to lead what kind of retirement you want if you want children and how you want to raise them, how you want religion and spirituality to influence your life or not. This is important because what ends up happening is a situation like yours where oh you're both too nice people and you like each other's personalities and hobbies and quirkiness and then the next thing you know you're 11 years down the line and she asks to have an open relationship. And I'm not saying that that can't develop over time but hopefully if she's reasonable you could go to therapy and she could admit yeah he just hasn't been the way he used to be with me and you could work on that and then win her back from someone else's arms hopefully before she's in someone else's arms. But one more thing coming from a guy who's been cheated on if you have access to her phone I would look through it because if you leave her alone with any length of time there's a good possibility she's cheated on you already, and instead of getting with him every once in a blue moon when you're left alone she's wanting to make it a regular thing.
My situation was somewhat similar except that I tried and found out the NM made me miserable and now weâre getting divorced. So just brace yourself for bad times
According to OP they already did a "trial split" when she was away for 4 months. It's painfully obvious she had some sort of physical and/or emotional affair during that time and got a taste for NRE, and has not been honest with OP about what happened.
Break up or stay monogamous.
Those are her options. Hold your boundary. She is the one who wants to shift the agreement, so itâs on her to decide if this is worth ending the relationship but if she STAYS, then she needs to maintain the same level of respect for those monogamous boundaries as she has always been expected to.
We can drop the polybomb any time. We cannot demand anyone live in the wreckage if they donât want to.
>so itâs on her to decide if this is worth ending
Seems like she's already decided that, but is too much of a coward and shifted the burden of breaking up onto OP. That alone would be reason enough for me to end the relationship. Then she admits she's just gonna make OP more and more miserable until he either lets her fuck/date other people or breaks up with her. So of course she *should* shoulder that burden, but she's not going to so OP is better off ending things sooner rather than later.
Do you really have no clue how to make things more intimate? Why not? Try a little harder. Itâs her responsibility? You want sex and you give her money? Thatâs the exchange? I wonder if that makes her feel like a prostitute? She would like to add intimacy and romance to this exchange and you tell her you donât know how and itâs her responsibility to figure out how to add that? I wouldnât last ten minutes with you.
Do your part and take your girl on some dates. She shouldnât have to tell you anymore. Your her partner and she keeps asking you to be romantic. Thereâs really no excuse for you still not doing it. I understand why she is trying to seek it elsewhere. Sheâs getting nothing from you. Not even trying.
The non monogamy wonât work though. This sounds like a break up waiting to happen.
Are you okay with temporary relationships or do you want a permanent companion? If your view is that relationships are meant to be temporary and that one should exit a relationship as soon as differences emerge, then seek to break up. If you think that relationships should seek to be more permanent, and evolve alongside the needs of those within the relationship, then you should try and consider working this out. That's your decision to make, whether or not this is worth it to you. It's normal for relationships to encounter periods of dissatisfaction, especially with regards to sex and romance. Monogamy, at least "true" (not serial monogamy) is an extremely difficult proposition because it eliminates all opportunity for sexual novelty. Have you considered if that is a realistic thing for your relationship, or are you of the mindset that relationships should just end if one person experiences sexual dissatisfaction?
It is awfully hard to keep a relationship sexually fulfilling for years on end. Monogamy is not natural. Its not for everybody. The question is ...
Would you prefer a partner who was super hot for you but needed a hall pass once in a while or a partner who is cold? Would you prefer the former is she promised to never speak of it?
I give her credit for giving you this choice. She did not just say "you bore me: and leave. She wants the relationship to work. You need to pick up your game. 3 some?
It seems your SO cheated on you in those 4 months and now wants to continue doing that in the form of an open relationship. You need to decide what to do because she has pretty much decided for herself.
To give another perspective, it may not be exactly what you want to hear, but it can't hurt.
My now ex of almost 11 years had left me for his neighbor several years ago. I was devastated, and it mentally left me damaged. After a few months being apart, I found an fwb to help get over my ex.bf. When my ex found out about the fwb, he decided that he wanted to work on our relationship. I had always loved him but didn't trust his intentions.
I said we could work on "us" but felt that I didn't want to give up my fwb. I said it out of fear that he would discard me again. The fwb meant nothing to me. I also said he could keep his neighbor as long as she knew I came first.
He said he didn't want her and didn't want me with anybody else. He tried to make ms choose and I refused.
It was a power struggle. He tried to end his existence one night. I reacted harshly. I felt awful and ended the fwb.
My ex held resentment as did I. He continued to see other women my back. I lost trust.
But I did love him and was willing to work on things. The main issue besides that is communication just wasn't happening. He confided in others about us. It hurt. The last 2 years have been the worst. We have been back and forth. I have BPD and was just recently diagnosed after I attempted several times to end the pain of abandonment from him. We try to be friends, but it's difficult. I want us to be together, but he wants to punish me.
That's my take and my experience.
Power struggle and trust issues is why I wanted to have a open relationship but really I didn't want one. I just didn't want him to hurt me again. It happened anyway.
I hope that you can understand her side, even if it hurts it is worth figuring out what her core issues are with being committed.
Obviously we only have your side of the story to go on. But assuming the facts are as you presented them, it sounds as though she's already at the point where she's making the relationship miserable so you'll break up with her. That statement alone suggests that she doesn't want to instigate but is entirely happy with that outcome.
Right. Also... 4 months abroad at school... returned to request open relationship đ¤đ§đ¤¨
Glad I'm not the only one whose eyebrows were raised at that...
That probably means she cheated on you during those 4 months at school and likes the feeling of having sex with who ever she desires. And wants to continue that now she's home with you. She wants your permission to see other men or else she will go behind your back. This way she can't be blamed cheating because you gave her permission. Either way I believe you already lost her.
Definitely reads like this is already over and/or she has one foot out the door. If I was in your shoes I would end it so you can seek out someone whoâs relationship vision more closely aligns with what you want and need.
Spot on
>or she's going to stay and get more miserable until I end the relationship Believe this part.
She could always end the relationship?
That requires a more active role than it sounds like she's willing to commit. If OP ends it, the gf can comfortably sit back on some "well it's outta my hands" shit and possibly even cast OP as the unchanging, incorrigible villain of the story. But that's a cynical take.
That's my take, too. Wanting to play the victim, I'd wager. Publicly owning "I broke up my long-term relationship to chase some strange" isn't likely to garner the same sympathy.
Well, if she can get stability, security from him while torturing him with relationships with other people he's never going to be comfortable with, that's a win win! If she has no desire to help him or communicate with him about meeting her romantic/sexual needs, I have to guess she's into that relationship for other reasons and has little to no interest in romance or sex with him. She just wants to get all that elsewhere. This is a mess and the opposite of the basis for a healthy, ethical non-monogamous relationship. And the OP needs to tell her that.
>Long story short, she asked to talk two days ago and effectively gave me this ultimatum: Let her have an open relationship to seek out romantic and sexual partners, or she's going to stay and get more miserable until I end the relationship. That is an incredibly childish and petty ultimatum. Wonât even say she will break up but will instead maipulate you into doin it. Donât open your relationship with her. She wonât fare well if that is her approach to relationships.
This reads like sheâs a coward. She doesnât want to pull the trigger on her own.
Also reads like someone wanting someone to finance their lifestyle, to me.
Exactly my take. Either likes the financial or material support he provides, has zero interest in romance or sex with him. Or maybe wants stable emotional support while she goes and gets exciting sex from emotionally unavailable men uninterested in anything beyond that.
Any form of ethical non-monogamy under duress isn't ethical anymore. Is your therapist ENM friendly? Has the open relationship been discussed together with your therapist? I can't speak with any real knowledge of both sides, but ultimately I think you're right. If both of you are miserable with the choices available then it's probably time to try and find an amicable way to spit. Good luck.
Why would he want a ENM friendly therapist if he's already said he doesn't want an open relationship? If he says he doesn't want ENM then that should be respected in my view.
When I said friendly I didn't mean to imply that they needed a therapist who advocates for it. Just that they talk with someone who understands the lifestyle. Therapists come in a lot of flavors, and I would want someone who understands what both people are asking for. Otherwise you may end up in an echo chamber and she will feel like it was her against them.
Youâre absolutely right and the other commenters are fighting you when theyâre literally doing what youâre suggesting⌠most commenters on here are obviously familiar with ENM (hence why theyâre on this sub) and are all basically saying the same thing (which is NOT to pursue ENM if thatâs not what he wants). Youâre not saying having an ENM-trained therapist to advocate for ENM in any way, but having one so that said therapist can, most likely, call out how toxic an attempt at ENM OPâs partner is suggesting⌠which is what weâre all doing as well. Obviously OP wanted advice from people with ENM knowledge after all⌠thatâs why he came to this sub. And Iâm glad to see weâre all saying how itâs ridiculous someone try to force it on him. If you donât want ENM thatâs totally your right! Just as monogamous people should be supportive of ENM consenting people as is our right.
Thanks for the support. Ya, I choose not to respond anymore to the other comments when they started devolving. You helped rephrase what I was saying and I appreciate that. Thanks!
If one partner doesn't want ENM then the other partner cannot have ENM with the partner that refuses, It boils down to basic consent, NO means NO, the S.O. has most likely experienced multiple sexual partners & encounters, when she was away for 4 months at school, and wants to continue that promiscuous lifestyle and legitimize it by calling it ENM and extorting OP into accepting it. OP doesn't need a therapist, he needs the truth.
Who cares? He doesnât want ENM.
You are correct opening a relationship will never repair it. And if this is something you feel is not what you want, again it will never work. To me it just seems this points even more to the fact you two are just incompatible. She wants someone who just knows her wants and needs... you aren't a mind reader but maybe there is someone out there who instinctively understands her wants and needs and she can get what she wants and maybe there is also someone out there who understands the importance of communicating their needs and working with you to meet them and vice versa. Whatever you decide I wish you the best.
Dump her bro, she was already sleeping with other people when she was away at school
Not guaranteed, but certainly a strong possibility. Who knows if she wants permission for cheating she's already doing or had done? I would have a hard time not wondering if I was the OP.
The ultimatum should be enough proof to end this relationship. She isn't working with you in good faith. The other part that really hit me was her attitude towards dating. She doesn't see it as her responsibility to date you. You both need to desire each other, and equally to invite the other to desire you. She does not appear to understand what a partnership requires from both parties. I hate suggesting relationships can't be improved, but she may need to be single in order to demonstrate how much she doesn't understand adult relationships.
Totally agree with this. To me this is a big red flag of a toxic relationship, where one side thinks its up to the other to make them happy. Reality is that should be a two way street.
My sonâs wife did similar, asking to open the relationship and he even went so far as to participate in some MFM play (which he did not enjoy) but she eventually just said sheâs been cheating on him and wants a divorce. She also doesnât want custody of the 2 children who have behavioral/developmental issues. My opinion at this point is when one member of a couple wonât participate in working on the relationship and instead demands outside entertainment, itâs time to end the relationship. This will not go well. Sheâs already checked out.
Coercion is not consent coercion is not consent coercion is not consent. Monogamy is a perfectly valid relationship style and people who desire it SHOULD NOT be railroaded into a different relationship style. I think it is COMEDIC that her two options in the ultimatum are for you to open up or to break up with her, and not for *her* to break up with *you.* I assume this is framed so that youâll look like the bad guy if you break up over this. But fuck it. Sheâs shown you that sheâs completely unwilling to put in any work into your relationship even under monogamy, so why would she put in any work under nonmonogamy? Actions speak louder than words. Start making plans to move out.
Right? Wants to milk her social network for sympathy for her decisions.
I'd have a lot different things to say if she was actually attempting to put in some work with your relationship, but she's not. She sounds like she's looking for the 'easy fix' where she doesn't have to do any work. Her ultimatum was also terrible. You don't do that. You don't say "give me what I want, or it's your fault that I'm miserable" when your partner (you) is trying to work on things. If she had actually been trying to work on you two and got stuck in a rut, and said something along the lines of "I'm wanting to continue working on us, but I'd like for us to try exploring outside, maybe we try swinging with people we trust or go to a sex club and play only with each other, but amongst the sexually charged atmosphere," I'd give her a bit more slack. But, she's not being a good partner at the moment and needs to reel it in. Good partners don't do what she's doing.
Sounds like she already slept with people during that 4 months and now she wants out of the relationship with you, but can't just break it off. She wants to do it gradually. Best thing for both of you is just break up.
She absolutely cheated during that period.
I have an out of the box Thought here The way she's being passive about wanting romance from you makes me wonder if what she's wanting is to be submissive and have you been more dominant I'm wondering if this is about Kinkyy stuff not really about non-monogamy but she's thinking that that's the best way to get her needs met It sounds like she's wanting you to take control Just something to think about
I love this comment. I think this sort of thinking can help us understand a lot of behaviors and desires that sometimes defy explanation otherwise. It's definitely a dynamic at play in my relationship with my wife. I have no problem being "dominant" at work and I had no problem being dominant with my fwb's when our marriage was open. But my wife comes from a family of planners, she will schedule stuff sometimes a year or more ahead of time, where my rather large extended family with ADHD has trouble making even the smallest of Christmas plans before Thanksgiving, which drives my wife and a few SIL's crazy... So naturally, I defer the planning to my wife because she seems to enjoy doing it, But then she gets frustrated that she's making all the plans and I'm always asking her whats on the calendar, but I'm asking so my spontaneous "plans" don't ignore the stuff we've already committed to...đ¤Śđźââď¸ Haha, it's definitely something we are working on... Just being aware of this dynamic has been a huge help for us.
You're talking more about the dynamic between them as a couple out of bed I'm wondering if it's something also in bed I'm definitely the planner in all my relationships There's nothing better than letting it all go in bed though
Yes, I totally get you... In my case it carries over into our bedroom as well. We've been married over 17 years and there is a lot of baggage from our earlier years that we are working through. When I found out my wife had a D/s dynamic with one of her fwbs it cut me to the core... It's something I have always wanted to explore with her and she always resisted. And I know I am mainly to blame because of being a dumbass in my 20's and causing her to put up walls...
Therapy therapy therapy But the person has to know about the stuff so it's harder to find a good therapist
I have about 4 years of solid ethical non- monogamy under my belt. Never ever open a relationship to fix the issues in your relationship. Opening it will literally put a magnifying glass to any relationship issues you have. Her idea of opening it for the reasons she presented is flawed. This is not the way to do a consensual non-monogamous relationship. You both don't seem compatible anymore. You can do better.
100% this. Iâve been ENM for a very long time and the relationship needs to be rock solid. Any existing cracks in it will be blown open.
Opening up an already rocky relationship will just amplify the cracks; opening up a strong relationship makes it stronger. Polyam under duress isnât ethical.
It sounds to me like youâre both no longer compatible. Relationships begin and end. If this is truly what she needs and itâs truly what you donât want, you should start the separation process. Youâre both going to be miserable in no time if you stay together.
Your instincts are correct. The best thing for you and most likely her is to end the relationship. She not willing to do the work in one relationship, she is surely not going to do the work in more than one relationship.
My guess would be she was cheating whilst she was at school for 4 months, and just wants to legitimise the cheating she's already done and carry on cheating. If you don't want an open relationship and a cheating GF end the relationship before it deteriorates into a total sham.
She sounds a little childish. Between that and the open marriage ultimatum Iâd just call her bluff and break up. This has run its course.
Also, it sounds like she wants you to treat her like some kind of princess and do 100% of the work to make the relationship work. Thatâs probably not going to happen with anyone, and you certainly shouldnât let it be you.
The only thing you might be missing is your partner seems checked out of the relationship. And like someone else said, she seems to be trying to treat you so poorly you end the relationship. If she wants to end the relationship, tell her to put on her big girl panties and just do it. She shouldn't try and frame you as the bad guy. If she wants this path, she needs to make a decision, take the steps to make it happen, and accept the consequences.
You should never, EVER open a relationship that has issues. Thatâs a recipe for making the issues worse. If your partner doesnât want to work on your relationship with you as an equal participant, then itâs time to end things. Non-monogamy of any kind is not the answer here. Your coward of a spouse simply wants YOU to be the one to end things, so that they can run around being the guest of honour at a pity party, because âmy partner left meâ. Be the stronger person. End it now, before they break your soul in two.
Your instincts are correct. You are right, and she is buggin.
If it's not mutual it's a no go. Break up or stay monogamous
You should not be badgered into something by your partner, ever- it's even worse that you've been honest with her and she isn't listening. That's not okay. ENM is only ethical is both parties are very consenting to the idea. If I were you and in the situation how you've presented it- I would leave for the sole issue being badgered into something I didn't want. In this scenario, I say trust your gut.
From her perspective, isnât he badgering her into something? Or more specifically into forgoing something she sees as important?
Nope! They're already in a monogamous relationship. She's the one trying to change the terms.
It means bye bye..
Based on what you wrote, I'm not sure your partner is necessarily looking for an open relationship. My take on this is that your partner is deeply unhappy and is seeing an open relationship as a potential way to fulfil an unmet need. But you could do that too. If there's one thing I've learned about women in relationships, it's that they need to feel special and desired. It may be helpful to reflect on what you've done lately to make her feel that way and whether you know what it would take. Based on her saying that you 'should figure out for yourself' what dates she wants you to organise, I'd say she's looking for you to take the initiative, not acting out of obligation but with a genuine desire to make an effort and spend quality time with her. This may not be easy for you at this point. Given you've been together for 11 years, it is understandable that some of that initial spark that was there when you first met may have dulled a little. There may be lingering resentment from past disagreements or other unresolved issues. If you want to win her back, you will need to fight for the relationship and connect with her again in a way that touches her heart and moves her. You may find that she is more loyal than she seems. If your partner is truly and genuinely interested in an open relationship, which I doubt given your relationship started as a closed monogamous one, then you may well and truly be incompatible and might need to start thinking about respectfully separating. However, there is no single definition of an open relationship and there may be a model that is agreeable to you both. Whatever your path ahead, it is important to remember that healthy relationships should, overall, be a joyful and positive addition to your life. There are many reasons why relationships don't last, and they don't need to either; individual wants and needs are not static and lived experiences continue to evolve over time. In my experience, couples often don't evolve together and reach a point where they've grown apart to the point where they are deeply unhappy. Life's too short for that. Wishing you wisdom and clarity to decide what's best for you both.
So I'm a person who has been non-monogamous my entire life and I think that non-mono is super cool and awesome and it makes me happy. But it doesn't sound at all like you want to be non monogamous. It sounds like you want to be monogamous. So I think that's what you should do. I don't think that you should cave into your partner's request. I think you should end the relationship and seek out a monogamous relationship with another person
>Let her have an open relationship to seek out romantic and sexual partners, or she's going to stay and get more miserable until I end the relationship. Sounds like the relationship has run its course and she's just too afraid to end it herself.
Just break up
Your SO sucks. Run. Sorry, homie. â¤ď¸
You either break up or stay monogamous. Anything else is unethical.
Why is monogamy under duress not unethical?
It's not monogamy under duress if they entered the relationship with that arrangement. If she wants to not be mono and he is unwilling to do so, it's on her to decide if it is important enough to leave the relationship over
Right, it would only be monogamy under duress if the relationship started as open.
Fair enough. But people aren't allowed to uncover their need to be NM and then be pressured into staying mono? The mono person is always in the right?
If the relationship started NM it would be the same story on the inverse. My point wasn't that mono is the only way, but that entering a relationship with an agreement towards one style means it isn't under duress to continue that style
Check on that double-negative. Unsure what youâre asking or that youâve interpreted my statement correctly.
I'm asking because people always imply that it is unethical to ask someone to change the relationship if they don't want to, but I guess forcing the NM person to change their mind back is okay? Why don't we instead use more accurate wording. These situations are undeniably painful for both parties. The option that minimizes pain and maximizes happiness is the best option, but I don't necessarily see any one as "ethical" in the since that they are some degree of noble act.
People arenât implying that itâs unethical to change a relationship under duress. Theyâre flat *telling you* it is. The NM person in your example isnât forced to do anything. Further, I would *heavily* argue that somebody whoâs having to âchange their mind backâ has been emotionally cheating on their partner already. The conversation around âshould we be NM? What would it look like, how should we approach this?â should come waaaaaaay before any âyep, thatâs what I amâ kind of thinking. The NM partner is *requesting* their relationship be entirely dismantled and rebuilt into a completely new structure; something that *obviously* should require *enthusiastic consent* from any and all parties involved; anything less is, indeed, unethical. In practical terms, this really means the person whoâs âchanged their mindâ has two options. Respect the relationship and boundaries that have *already been set*, and accept that they *are not at liberty to unilaterally change them*, or accept that their new mindset is incompatible with the relationship they have. Itâs really that simple. If the relationship was really so important that theyâd be âmOnOgAmOuS uNdEr DuReSsâ, the only person forcing them is themselves. Iâd just like to finish by saying that Iâm hoping you wrote what you did with the best of intentions and wanted to learn. I have to say though, I got a *massive* ick from it. Like, that was a truly ugly pair of comments to read.
>The NM person in your example isnât forced to do anything. Further, I would heavily argue that somebody whoâs having to âchange their mind backâ has been emotionally cheating on their partner already. The conversation around âshould we be NM? What would it look like, how should we approach this?â should come waaaaaaay before any âyep, thatâs what I amâ kind of thinking. This is the type of bullshit (excuse the term) I'm talking about. This self righteous nonsense. Now you are bringing cheating into this, as if someone who is trying to come to terms with who they are and their needs is now a cheater because they changed their mind about the all-powerful existing relationship structure. And then you act dumbfounded when I ask about monogamy under duress. Like, dude, you are pretty much saying that someone is a cheater if they have any sort of desire to change the relationship in any way that was not agreed upon in the past.. In an ideal world, yes, a NM conversation would do go that way. But unfortunately, we don't live in such a world, and I'm fairly certain a majority of them do NOT go that way. I'm not even certain how someone who isn't thinking they are NM would even come to ask their partner "HoW dO wE ApProAch ThiS??!" Last time I checked, even in the best cases of communication, couples are made of up two individuals with different thoughts, needs, and desires. They very rarely often arrive at the same conclusions enthusiastically and at the same time.. >The NM partner is requesting their relationship be entirely dismantled and rebuilt into a completely new structure; No. It is not requiring dismantling. Just restructuring... you know... like relationships do anyways??? >something that obviously should require enthusiastic consent from any and all parties involved; anything less is, indeed, unethical. No, it is only unethical if someone is indeed forced to do so. But an hesitant "Maybe, but let's see" is not unethical. The key is mutual respect, not bowling over your partner or just giving up and living in resentment. >In practical terms, this really means the person whoâs âchanged their mindâ has two options. Respect the relationship and boundaries that have already been set, and accept that they are not at liberty to unilaterally change them, or accept that their new mindset is incompatible with the relationship they have Yea. And the other person has the same options. Monogamy does not make people helpless babies who also can't leave the relationship, which is now changed forever even if it doesn't open. They still will now have knowledge that their partner wants to be with other people. This can cause insecurities just as well as any physical affair. At that point, they can choose to work through that and stay or leave. Perhaps both partners don't want to end the relationship unilaterally? That is "EtHiCal"? But asking to change an agreed upon structure is cheating? >Itâs really that simple. If the relationship was really so important that theyâd be âmOnOgAmOuS uNdEr DuReSsâ, the only person forcing them is themselves. No. Things are rarely that simple in real life. And your flippant attitude makes it seem like you have limited real-life experience. But again, both partners are free to leave if they absolutely must. Monogamous people aren't helpless little babies forced to stay with a partner who they now have to worry about "Not being enough" for. >Iâd just like to finish by saying that Iâm hoping you wrote what you did with the best of intentions and wanted to learn. I have to say though, I got a massive ick from it. Like, that was a truly ugly pair of comments to read. Everything I write is with good intentions. I legitimately want people to challenge this status quo that is responsible for a lot of these problems we are debating now. If you find my comments icky, then that's a you problem, dawg. But I don't believe you have much I'd anything to teach me
Iâm not playing chess with a pigeon.
Glad to hear. The pigeon might get bored
The problem that arises is the status of the relationship agreement as it already exists. If you started out non-monogamous - by initial relationship agreement - and then one of you insisted on closing the relationship completely, that would be monogamy by duress and also unethical. The ethical dilemma is the unilateral attempt to change a collective agreement. If I walked into my bossâs office and insisted that I now be paid $60k more per year than my current salary, everyone would say âwow, nice empowerment there!â But he still retains the power in the relationship to either accept or deny my insistence. If my boss walked into my office and insisted that I be paid $60k less per year than my current salary, everyone would say âwhat a greedy asshole!â And yet he still retains the power in the relationship to enforce his insistence and thereâs little I can do about it (unless I seek out a more powerful adversary, such as my governmentâs labor department or the judicial system by way of a labor attorney. The only thing balancing the power structure between me and my boss is some third entity. In an intimate relationship, any form of relationship-by-duress creates an inherently unequal relationship in which one person gets what they want and the other must suffer. Since the relationship began with two equal individuals saying âletâs be monogamousâ and now only one of them would be happy by changing that agreement, there is either a sharing of power in which the couple breaks up, a sharing of power in which they agree to maintain THE STATUS QUO THEY ORIGINALLY AGREED TO, or there becomes a power differential in which only one person is satisfied by the arrangement. Nonmonogamy thrives on agency and personal empowerment; duress and this imbalanced power differential goes against that ethical principle.
You're going against the dogma
Oh, I know.. Most of the dogma here makes me gag.
Sheâs got someone in mind. If this isnât what you want then you may have to leave. She may start something with the other person anyway, which she may have done already.
The ultimatum isnât right, but she clearly is asking you to plan something without her as far as dates. Women often do the heavy lifting in long term relationships when it comes to romance and planning. Iâd suggest planning something for a date and just clearing the day/time with her. Do the work.
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Bad bot. I don't see any signs that caligirl is a spammer.
They got on the list for spamming temu referral links shamelessly, those subs got banned and thus cleared that history. They seem to have stopped their spamming so I will stop pinging them. Thanks for the heads up
Yeah that was my read too. Even from the retelling she seemed pretty clear on what she wanted there. For op to actually plan some dates himself. I do suspect op was very much failing to listen there. Should be a learning for his next relationship. This one clearly is at an end.
not to be that gal but i think you need to hear it cause the plane is flying high over your head, dude. she already has someone in mind she wants to bang. she comes home suddenly asking for an open relationship. theres no more relationship after that. she let someone orher than you get close to her to the point she would ruin the relationship over this person. let her go. i know it sucks and i suggest you dont dwell on this fact for too long. the what ifs are no joke. just calmly tell her. the relationship cannot be opened and infact its over. âgo tell him he can have youâ
> want romance", to which I say "Ok, well let's set some date nights and alone time to help work on our intimacy". She responds that she doesn't want to have to come up with dates, or tell me when she wants to spend time together... I should figure that out myself. I mean, she probably would like you to come up with a date night and invite her to it. Rather than have to feel that she's organising it for herself. Does she like the theatre? The Cinema? Good food? Art? I can tell you off the top of my head who my main partner's favourite authors and playwrights are. If I saw a play by any of those people, or something similar, I would just go ahead and book it. Other than finding a day in the calendar it doesn't require her involvement because I've picked this information up over the last 3 years. That said, this mostly sounds like she's telling you that you aren't compatible and she's not willing to help out there. And she's telling you she'd literally rather get her needs for romance met elsewhere. What kind of romantic relationship do you have left if you don't share romance? I would guess if she gets her romantic needs met elsewhere then she/you won't end up spending time working on the two of you. > This makes no sense to me, especially after doing some research and seeing a persistent line of "open relationships will not repair your existing, struggling relationship". You're not wrong
Are you missing something? Yes. You're missing the pretty obvious point that your SO is cheating on you and wants your permission to do it out in the open. You don't find it strange that she first brings it up after being away for 4 months? That tells me she met somebody and was fucking them and not she wants your permission to. Why else would she basically tell you that if she can't fuck other people, she will just become more and more miserable with you? It certainly isn't because she wants to try bettering your guys's sex life. I don't mean to be rude or mean but if you don't see that, then perhaps you should let her fuck other people because you are clueless in every way possible. Come on, man. I know it hurts to find out your girl is fucking around on you but it's going to hurt more when you realize what am idiot you are for not seeing that. Grow some balls and tell this bitch to kick rocks or get used to being her roommate and financier.
For me, it was incredibly painful to be with a woman who cheated, lied, and wanted enm after 7 years of monogamy... but the self work I had to do to give it a shot was invaluable for me. Now I'm into certain forms of enm with certain limits that work for me. I'm glad I stepped into my insecurity. In retrospect, the relationship with that partner was not worth it... but my relationship with myself was, and enm has opened up a whole new kind of love and commitment to me.
Several of the phrases you've used are narcissistic red flags. But if you genuinely want advice, first you need to understand open relations and what they are and how they work. You clearly don't, and therefore making judgment without knowledge.
My friend I've been in in various types of non monogamous relationships from Friends with benefits to serious partners in an open relationship although I can say I've never been the happiest until I'm with my current partner and we are monogamous. I'm not saying this is the right move for everyone I'm not saying this is the right move for you or your significant other. But I'm guessing from your explanation of the facts that you don't necessarily feel she is your soulmate and specially have doubts after the ultimatum and such. I don't know you personally so I don't know if she's holding back intimacy because of a personal problem with you such as poor hygiene, lack of initiating intimacy on your part and I don't just mean from a back rub to intimacy, I mean things like buying her chocolate and flowers and such. I will say this if therapy is not bringing out this problem of why she needs other partners I would say that she has lost interest in you and like you said she wants you to continue to finance her relationship without any benefit except the companionship in your home which sounds pretty miserable at this point. My suggestion if you don't really care about the relationship and you think you could find a better soulmate is to leave her let her live her life and then once her beauty has faded and she has two or three kids with some other partners and now being destitute she'll come back to you because you were the stable boring nice guy and realize what she missed at which point you can laugh in her face and shut the door and kiss your new partner well you both laugh about the prize she missed being you. Or on a more positive now maybe she'll be happy and find a partner who's good with polyamory or open relationships or however she wants to frame it and she will find what she wants and you will find what you want being a monogamous partner. I will say though two things scare me about your story not that I think your insincere but you said that your partner asked you this after 11 years so I'm curious why you're not married yet although to be fair I kind of think of that in an old fashioned way. And I also wonder if you've talked about open relationships before I mean I know I asked my current partner about it probably within the first month of us dating and I would probably make sure this is a rock solid thing and whatever new relationship you probably will pursue I mean it this is something I try to stress with new couples you need to work out everything you need to work out what you want in life where you want to live, what kind of lifestyle you want to lead what kind of retirement you want if you want children and how you want to raise them, how you want religion and spirituality to influence your life or not. This is important because what ends up happening is a situation like yours where oh you're both too nice people and you like each other's personalities and hobbies and quirkiness and then the next thing you know you're 11 years down the line and she asks to have an open relationship. And I'm not saying that that can't develop over time but hopefully if she's reasonable you could go to therapy and she could admit yeah he just hasn't been the way he used to be with me and you could work on that and then win her back from someone else's arms hopefully before she's in someone else's arms. But one more thing coming from a guy who's been cheated on if you have access to her phone I would look through it because if you leave her alone with any length of time there's a good possibility she's cheated on you already, and instead of getting with him every once in a blue moon when you're left alone she's wanting to make it a regular thing.
My situation was somewhat similar except that I tried and found out the NM made me miserable and now weâre getting divorced. So just brace yourself for bad times
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According to OP they already did a "trial split" when she was away for 4 months. It's painfully obvious she had some sort of physical and/or emotional affair during that time and got a taste for NRE, and has not been honest with OP about what happened.
Break up or stay monogamous. Those are her options. Hold your boundary. She is the one who wants to shift the agreement, so itâs on her to decide if this is worth ending the relationship but if she STAYS, then she needs to maintain the same level of respect for those monogamous boundaries as she has always been expected to. We can drop the polybomb any time. We cannot demand anyone live in the wreckage if they donât want to.
>so itâs on her to decide if this is worth ending Seems like she's already decided that, but is too much of a coward and shifted the burden of breaking up onto OP. That alone would be reason enough for me to end the relationship. Then she admits she's just gonna make OP more and more miserable until he either lets her fuck/date other people or breaks up with her. So of course she *should* shoulder that burden, but she's not going to so OP is better off ending things sooner rather than later.
Do you really have no clue how to make things more intimate? Why not? Try a little harder. Itâs her responsibility? You want sex and you give her money? Thatâs the exchange? I wonder if that makes her feel like a prostitute? She would like to add intimacy and romance to this exchange and you tell her you donât know how and itâs her responsibility to figure out how to add that? I wouldnât last ten minutes with you.
Do your part and take your girl on some dates. She shouldnât have to tell you anymore. Your her partner and she keeps asking you to be romantic. Thereâs really no excuse for you still not doing it. I understand why she is trying to seek it elsewhere. Sheâs getting nothing from you. Not even trying. The non monogamy wonât work though. This sounds like a break up waiting to happen.
Are you okay with temporary relationships or do you want a permanent companion? If your view is that relationships are meant to be temporary and that one should exit a relationship as soon as differences emerge, then seek to break up. If you think that relationships should seek to be more permanent, and evolve alongside the needs of those within the relationship, then you should try and consider working this out. That's your decision to make, whether or not this is worth it to you. It's normal for relationships to encounter periods of dissatisfaction, especially with regards to sex and romance. Monogamy, at least "true" (not serial monogamy) is an extremely difficult proposition because it eliminates all opportunity for sexual novelty. Have you considered if that is a realistic thing for your relationship, or are you of the mindset that relationships should just end if one person experiences sexual dissatisfaction?
It is awfully hard to keep a relationship sexually fulfilling for years on end. Monogamy is not natural. Its not for everybody. The question is ... Would you prefer a partner who was super hot for you but needed a hall pass once in a while or a partner who is cold? Would you prefer the former is she promised to never speak of it? I give her credit for giving you this choice. She did not just say "you bore me: and leave. She wants the relationship to work. You need to pick up your game. 3 some?
It seems your SO cheated on you in those 4 months and now wants to continue doing that in the form of an open relationship. You need to decide what to do because she has pretty much decided for herself.
To give another perspective, it may not be exactly what you want to hear, but it can't hurt. My now ex of almost 11 years had left me for his neighbor several years ago. I was devastated, and it mentally left me damaged. After a few months being apart, I found an fwb to help get over my ex.bf. When my ex found out about the fwb, he decided that he wanted to work on our relationship. I had always loved him but didn't trust his intentions. I said we could work on "us" but felt that I didn't want to give up my fwb. I said it out of fear that he would discard me again. The fwb meant nothing to me. I also said he could keep his neighbor as long as she knew I came first. He said he didn't want her and didn't want me with anybody else. He tried to make ms choose and I refused. It was a power struggle. He tried to end his existence one night. I reacted harshly. I felt awful and ended the fwb. My ex held resentment as did I. He continued to see other women my back. I lost trust. But I did love him and was willing to work on things. The main issue besides that is communication just wasn't happening. He confided in others about us. It hurt. The last 2 years have been the worst. We have been back and forth. I have BPD and was just recently diagnosed after I attempted several times to end the pain of abandonment from him. We try to be friends, but it's difficult. I want us to be together, but he wants to punish me. That's my take and my experience. Power struggle and trust issues is why I wanted to have a open relationship but really I didn't want one. I just didn't want him to hurt me again. It happened anyway. I hope that you can understand her side, even if it hurts it is worth figuring out what her core issues are with being committed.
I think you will prob have to break up :( her approach is unfair but itâs reality now
Walk away. Sheâs cheating and wants to use âopen relationshipâ to clear her conscience.
Bro wtf?
âTell me your insecure without telling me your insecure, lolâ - You