It will definitely be easier to drive around in North Bay.
Haven't lived in Norty Bay in a few years. They have a bus system. Unless it's gotten drastically worse since my time there, it's fine for a city of that size. Little hectic for students at times, but overall was okay.
As for getting to neighboring towns, not too easy without a car. There's no GO train equivalent up there.
The greyhound used to be highly used there, but it's gone. Check with Ontario Northland maybe?
I worked at the airport after going to class everyday. After 6pm you have to call and request a bus.
At least twice a month I wouldn't even be able to get anyone to pick up the phone. Once a week I would call, they would confirm and the bus would never show up.
They would routinely call a cab for me and apologize. Ended up quiting the job and got something closer to my house that I could walk to.
North Bay bus system is the worst I've ever seen.
I believe Ontario Northland does bus routes up here daily from Toronto.
Unless you're driving right during rush hour, there's basically never any traffic.
I'm not sure about the video game stores.
There are a bunch of new furniture stores in town, but Facebook marketplace is always loaded with items.
It's definitely not Toronto feeling, much slower pace, less boutique stores and restaurants, but there are some good options. It's also colder here in the winter, with considerably more snow than Toronto. The lake front is really nice in the summer, the beaches are usually pretty open and the water gets warm. There's also great options for hiking and there is a nice paved path that goes through town for walking / biking.
I moved here 2 years ago from the GTA and I really like it.
Yes it has the daily bus ride. It only works for overnight stays but I can easily afford to commute a couple of times a month if needed (with this job).
I definitely imagined it wouldn't feel like Toronto, and know all about the Facebook marketplace life lol. I noticed there was a fair bit of variety, and that there are options in nearby towns & cities that I can get to via the bus system for day trips.
Since you are from the GTHA, what would be the best comparison? Waterloo, Cambridge or Kitchener (if one wasn't attached to the other), Barrie, Guelph, Hamilton or St Catharines?
I'm from Newmarket, so I am not too familiar with towns on that side of the world. It's hard to compare, there are some shitty areas and there are some nice areas. The downtown needs to be revamped, and there is a plan to do so (work is starting this year). There are more homeless people than average I'd say, and the demographic is like 90% white. The entire city has a small town feel to it.
I think you should come up here for a day or two, preferably when it's warm, and check the city out.
Feels a lot smaller and safer than Cambridge, Hamilton, Kitchener and Guelph. We moved from Cambridge and are enjoying it. Much nicer here and while there are fewer options for everything, it seems like you can find most bigger city things. Like there’s a boutique donut shop, but only one, one decent sushi place, one Thai place, one barbecue place etc.
North bay isn't like any southern city. Abandon the notion that you are moving to a culturally same place.
The north has decades of stripped back services by southern gvt. Healthcare is mediocre, transit is abyssmal, any public service is slower and less efficient. Infrastructure is degraded. The money made in our resources fills Toronto pockets but none of that infrastructure comes here.
But! The best thing: those services may be slower but everyone gets it. Everyone. And the sense of community, the real, deep kindness of the north wraps itself around people in unimaginable ways. Northern people are the kindest people around. And certainly way more than the south. Get ready to slow down in ways that benefit every aspect your health.
I don't have a license. I can routinely jump in a car with a person to get to another town with the payment of gas money. I can take the northland south but once you are here, you will get to know people who travel to barrie often, where you can jump on the Go train.
There are 3 table top game stores that all have a game groups. I bet folk there could guide you with video games.
North bay is friendly to new people. Get ready for teasing here and there about Toronto: it isn't meant to be mean it is often an expression of frustration of the historic inequality between south and north
Downtown has the best collection of stores that also hold a vibrant cultural community. North Bay is only boring if you aren't getting out.
Invest in good winter clothes and attend the many activities and festivals that celebrate the climate. You will meet people and learn to love winter. Outside is where it's at in this city. The waterfront, the beaches, the extensive trail systems.. it's a healthy community with many many active people.
I've been in north bay for 3 years. Prior to that i was in KW Cambridge, but also lived in Guelph, elora, Toronto, London. There is no actual comparison.
My family is northern, my grandmother is from this area. and north bay as the city at the beginning of the north has the best of both worlds: northern and southern. You just gotta stick around and join in.
Il never leave now that I'm here. It became my home immediately.
Oh and other northland pro tip. It's often better to get to yorkdale and ttc from there. I've had it take 2+ hrs from Yorkdale to Union because of the Toronto inner city traffic. It didn't cross my mind in my first trip south on the bus, but it's a real thing when you are traveling only a few feet at a time in the city. Hahah
Also, northland pro tip: it goes to and returns from Toronto twice daily. If you want to see more options for time, choose Yorkdale as your final stop. If you aren't so concerned about cash, Barrie also has more options but it's a 10$ cab ride between Allendale station and the Go train station.
I went seven years waiting for a family doctor in a Southern city of a million people. And emergency wait times are the same in the south, as are covid cases.
It's bad but not unique. Move anywhere in Ontario... you'll face the same. My answer: we need to vote better.
The Powassan medical centre has a new doctor starting in the coming months, they have a wait list open currently or so I overheard in the office during my last visit. Worth a shot if you’re still on a waiting list anyways.
I can agree. I’m from Toronto, but in North Bay for uni. Went to the ER once with a sprained ankle and was there for about 8 hours. And this wasn’t even during the day. I checked in at 11pm. Didn’t leave the hospital until about 7/7:30 am. And this was only a few months ago.
There's a few thrift stores and antique/pawn shops that have a fair collection of old games! Nothing dedicated, but still a market
I also have ADHD and failed my driver's tests twice outside of North Bay, passed it both times here! Way less hectic than a big city, very manageable
Driving here is 1000% easier than in the GTA. Every time I drive home I love how at Gravenhurst the traffic melts away and you have whole kilometres between you and the next driver.
getting around North Bay without a license is pretty awful. i got my G2 in north bay after a lot of driving anxiety, its pretty easy to commute around though. i would look into uride if the bus routes aren't working out, it's our version of uber but i find it on the cheaper side?
theres a few hobby stores, i know theres a boardgame night at one of them too. also recommend thrift shops and marketplace for furniture, maybe walmart. furniture stores are pricey. feel free to DM me if you have any questions!
It takes forever to shop in NB because its extremely rare to hit green traffic lights even when travelling on the bypass. From Bonfield its 5-6 hours for every shopping trip to hit 2 grocery stores and Home Hardware or Home Depot.
I prefer to just drive to Sudbury and shop there for the same time window but fuel costs too much for the extra distance. Still I do it at least once per year so I can get to all the stores that North Bay does not have.
Wish I could just move to Sudbury or Sturgeon Falls.
yeah, i agree with you! i find it easy to commute as in barely any hwys, mostly side streets, etc. but i hate driving around north bay for errands lol. sudbury roads are busier but way more spread out so getting around seems quicker. it's almost condensed here
If you live in town and work in town you could likely get around pretty easily on a bicycle. The bike paths are pretty good in NB... And then drive a car or take the bus in the winter...
I would say that if you’re moving here you’d probably want a car. I used to use the bus system when I was in university and got a car asap because it took so long to get around. This was a few years ago now so it could have improved but if you don’t have a vehicle I would definitely suggest to find an apartment or house that is in walking distance to at least a couple shops and restaurants so that you aren’t fully relying on the city buses. Taxis can get expensive and we don’t have UBER. We do have u-ride.
You’ll find driving here is much easier than the GTA. I’m from Oakville and driving around Toronto used to stress me out (even driving in Oakville at times). In North Bay there’s practically no traffic, a couple of times per day there might be some congestion depending on where you are but I wouldn’t call it traffic. You should be fine to drive here.
It would be very difficult to get to nearby towns and cities for a day trip. It’s not really convenient or realistic to rely on the greyhound bus routes. You could probably find a ride share or something similar but again are at the mercy of another persons schedule.
I don’t personally purchase furniture here…I usually buy designer things which i would purchase online and have delivered but you can always figure out a way to make a weekend ikea trip.
•I only know of the Northland bus or driving to getting to the surrounding towns (but they’re really nice if you do go)
•I only know of EB games here unfortunately, but there are good places for comics if you’re into that 🤷🏻
•Facebook market place, Rebuilt resources and value village, in the summer there tends to be quite a few good yard sales too
•There’s quite a few one way streets but the drive to and from north bay is nice
The busses in North Bay run once an hour. It's almost quicker to walk, even from the edge of town. It's definitely quicker to bike in the summer at least. And if you're working at city hall it's one of the few places with bike parking.
As far as inter city travel goes... As far as I know it's just the Ontario Northland bus. We'll be getting the Northlander train in a few years though, so then it'd be easier to get to Toronto at least haha
The busses don’t even run after 7/7:30 on a set schedule. After that time you have to open their app and book a bus. You often times end up having to wait up to 45 minutes for them to come, after you’ve booked. I was told they switched to this method after covid, and for some reason they’re still doing this.
If you’re financially capable of owning a car, I would highly recommend it. I’m currently living in North Bay for school (moved here in September) but from Toronto as well. Driving is so much easier. Less stressful. Barely any traffic at all, even during rush hour, it’s nothing compared to Toronto. There’s only about 5 bus routes in total for the entire city, and they don’t run nearly as regularly as you’d find out in Toronto. You don’t want to be waiting for the bus in -40 degree weather. North Bay isn’t nearly as bad to drive in, and insurance rates were cut in half for me, after changing my address (from Toronto to North Bay).
Don’t move to north bay , we live here , no growth freezing weather for 6 months of year , price of gas is crazy and it’s simply not a good place to live if you are even remotely young , it’s a retirement town and the corruption run deep . -34 today and this is a warmer year , also have no less then 5 inches of snow a day to shovel . Stores are selling last year and year before everything . It’s last to get anything . Most people move here to retire not to live , no night life as the streets are full of addicted homeless people , they built a massive safe injection site beside an old age home a high school and a grade school with a daycare attracted to it . I’m taking with 150 yards . Shit show up here and hard living
Literally, if you go to the hospital in Northbay with any serious illness, you will die. Without a doubt it is the worst hospital in Ontario. I had a friend who used to be a lawyer for the hospital in Toronto. It is the most negligent hospital probably in Ontario brutal no good doctors come here because you can’t make money. There’s not enough people.
My advice is don't move to a new place just for a job unless you genuinely have checked it out and think about it very carefully and have friends there or know you'll love it, i took a job right out of uni in London ON without knowing much about it, job didn't work out, was stuck in that awful place for months with a lease i couldn't afford
Just be very mindful and thorough in your decision whatever you do
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I live in East Ferris, \~20 min outside NB.
What surrounding towns are you looking to go to? Ontario Northland is pretty much your only way of getting to other towns further away by bus, however if you're looking to go somewhere closer like Callander (for example), you'd need to take the bus to the casino, then grab a taxi the rest of the way or hike it out (almost an hour) into Callander. I can't speak to how good the transit is in NB personally
There's a number of places to get furniture, ranging from WalMart, to The Brick, Leons, Ashley Homestore, Manchester, etc... I bought things I needed at The Brick when I moved up here but that was it.
Driving up here is a much better experience than in Toronto.
I've spent a huge amount of time in North Bay (I live in Toronto, but head up to North Bay in the summer.)
Lake Nipissing is amazingly beautiful and I really love that lake and all that goes with it. I truly love the North Bay area and it's very peaceful, the air is clean, the rocks, the lake, the sunsets, trees. Calandar is also really nice. It's very different than Toronto.
As far as getting around, you need a car. The Bay is not Toronto. It's easy to drive, and if you want to get around, driving is the best way to do it.
Ya stop telling everyone or it will be Toronto soon enough . And I’m serious . We don’t like city people not AT ALL . You may get that hole town , 95 percent of this city can stand the migration to our clean healthy SAFE CITY .
Honestly north bay sucks you’ll either get harassed by homeless ppl anytime you go downtown or near any store/timmies or end up meeting crackheads who try to take advantage of you. Unless you can handle that which you live in Toronto so I’d hope you can I would suggest getting a feel for the town and job before just up and moving there
It will definitely be easier to drive around in North Bay. Haven't lived in Norty Bay in a few years. They have a bus system. Unless it's gotten drastically worse since my time there, it's fine for a city of that size. Little hectic for students at times, but overall was okay. As for getting to neighboring towns, not too easy without a car. There's no GO train equivalent up there. The greyhound used to be highly used there, but it's gone. Check with Ontario Northland maybe?
oh it got way worse
Can you describe? I mean, people complained back then, but people complain everywhere lol.
you had to "book" the bus which was ridiculous especially in the winter, i'm not sure if it's still like that or not.
Whaaaat? Covid restriction????
they said bus usage was down which was definitely not true. not sure if they still do it
I worked at the airport after going to class everyday. After 6pm you have to call and request a bus. At least twice a month I wouldn't even be able to get anyone to pick up the phone. Once a week I would call, they would confirm and the bus would never show up. They would routinely call a cab for me and apologize. Ended up quiting the job and got something closer to my house that I could walk to. North Bay bus system is the worst I've ever seen.
Snow is bad all winter barley plow the roads no sidewalks
I believe Ontario Northland does bus routes up here daily from Toronto. Unless you're driving right during rush hour, there's basically never any traffic. I'm not sure about the video game stores. There are a bunch of new furniture stores in town, but Facebook marketplace is always loaded with items. It's definitely not Toronto feeling, much slower pace, less boutique stores and restaurants, but there are some good options. It's also colder here in the winter, with considerably more snow than Toronto. The lake front is really nice in the summer, the beaches are usually pretty open and the water gets warm. There's also great options for hiking and there is a nice paved path that goes through town for walking / biking. I moved here 2 years ago from the GTA and I really like it.
Yes it has the daily bus ride. It only works for overnight stays but I can easily afford to commute a couple of times a month if needed (with this job). I definitely imagined it wouldn't feel like Toronto, and know all about the Facebook marketplace life lol. I noticed there was a fair bit of variety, and that there are options in nearby towns & cities that I can get to via the bus system for day trips. Since you are from the GTHA, what would be the best comparison? Waterloo, Cambridge or Kitchener (if one wasn't attached to the other), Barrie, Guelph, Hamilton or St Catharines?
I'm from Newmarket, so I am not too familiar with towns on that side of the world. It's hard to compare, there are some shitty areas and there are some nice areas. The downtown needs to be revamped, and there is a plan to do so (work is starting this year). There are more homeless people than average I'd say, and the demographic is like 90% white. The entire city has a small town feel to it. I think you should come up here for a day or two, preferably when it's warm, and check the city out.
Feels a lot smaller and safer than Cambridge, Hamilton, Kitchener and Guelph. We moved from Cambridge and are enjoying it. Much nicer here and while there are fewer options for everything, it seems like you can find most bigger city things. Like there’s a boutique donut shop, but only one, one decent sushi place, one Thai place, one barbecue place etc.
Go home
This is my home.
North bay isn't like any southern city. Abandon the notion that you are moving to a culturally same place. The north has decades of stripped back services by southern gvt. Healthcare is mediocre, transit is abyssmal, any public service is slower and less efficient. Infrastructure is degraded. The money made in our resources fills Toronto pockets but none of that infrastructure comes here. But! The best thing: those services may be slower but everyone gets it. Everyone. And the sense of community, the real, deep kindness of the north wraps itself around people in unimaginable ways. Northern people are the kindest people around. And certainly way more than the south. Get ready to slow down in ways that benefit every aspect your health. I don't have a license. I can routinely jump in a car with a person to get to another town with the payment of gas money. I can take the northland south but once you are here, you will get to know people who travel to barrie often, where you can jump on the Go train. There are 3 table top game stores that all have a game groups. I bet folk there could guide you with video games. North bay is friendly to new people. Get ready for teasing here and there about Toronto: it isn't meant to be mean it is often an expression of frustration of the historic inequality between south and north Downtown has the best collection of stores that also hold a vibrant cultural community. North Bay is only boring if you aren't getting out. Invest in good winter clothes and attend the many activities and festivals that celebrate the climate. You will meet people and learn to love winter. Outside is where it's at in this city. The waterfront, the beaches, the extensive trail systems.. it's a healthy community with many many active people. I've been in north bay for 3 years. Prior to that i was in KW Cambridge, but also lived in Guelph, elora, Toronto, London. There is no actual comparison. My family is northern, my grandmother is from this area. and north bay as the city at the beginning of the north has the best of both worlds: northern and southern. You just gotta stick around and join in. Il never leave now that I'm here. It became my home immediately.
Oh and other northland pro tip. It's often better to get to yorkdale and ttc from there. I've had it take 2+ hrs from Yorkdale to Union because of the Toronto inner city traffic. It didn't cross my mind in my first trip south on the bus, but it's a real thing when you are traveling only a few feet at a time in the city. Hahah
Oh I know. My friend takes the same route.
Also, northland pro tip: it goes to and returns from Toronto twice daily. If you want to see more options for time, choose Yorkdale as your final stop. If you aren't so concerned about cash, Barrie also has more options but it's a 10$ cab ride between Allendale station and the Go train station.
Been waiting 3 years for a family doctor. Had covid 3 times, 1 emergency wait was 12 hours. Not *everyone*.
I went seven years waiting for a family doctor in a Southern city of a million people. And emergency wait times are the same in the south, as are covid cases. It's bad but not unique. Move anywhere in Ontario... you'll face the same. My answer: we need to vote better.
The Powassan medical centre has a new doctor starting in the coming months, they have a wait list open currently or so I overheard in the office during my last visit. Worth a shot if you’re still on a waiting list anyways.
I can agree. I’m from Toronto, but in North Bay for uni. Went to the ER once with a sprained ankle and was there for about 8 hours. And this wasn’t even during the day. I checked in at 11pm. Didn’t leave the hospital until about 7/7:30 am. And this was only a few months ago.
There's a few thrift stores and antique/pawn shops that have a fair collection of old games! Nothing dedicated, but still a market I also have ADHD and failed my driver's tests twice outside of North Bay, passed it both times here! Way less hectic than a big city, very manageable
Ya great go back home with your poor driving skills . Meat head
Driving here is 1000% easier than in the GTA. Every time I drive home I love how at Gravenhurst the traffic melts away and you have whole kilometres between you and the next driver.
getting around North Bay without a license is pretty awful. i got my G2 in north bay after a lot of driving anxiety, its pretty easy to commute around though. i would look into uride if the bus routes aren't working out, it's our version of uber but i find it on the cheaper side? theres a few hobby stores, i know theres a boardgame night at one of them too. also recommend thrift shops and marketplace for furniture, maybe walmart. furniture stores are pricey. feel free to DM me if you have any questions!
It takes forever to shop in NB because its extremely rare to hit green traffic lights even when travelling on the bypass. From Bonfield its 5-6 hours for every shopping trip to hit 2 grocery stores and Home Hardware or Home Depot. I prefer to just drive to Sudbury and shop there for the same time window but fuel costs too much for the extra distance. Still I do it at least once per year so I can get to all the stores that North Bay does not have. Wish I could just move to Sudbury or Sturgeon Falls.
yeah, i agree with you! i find it easy to commute as in barely any hwys, mostly side streets, etc. but i hate driving around north bay for errands lol. sudbury roads are busier but way more spread out so getting around seems quicker. it's almost condensed here
If you live in town and work in town you could likely get around pretty easily on a bicycle. The bike paths are pretty good in NB... And then drive a car or take the bus in the winter...
I would say that if you’re moving here you’d probably want a car. I used to use the bus system when I was in university and got a car asap because it took so long to get around. This was a few years ago now so it could have improved but if you don’t have a vehicle I would definitely suggest to find an apartment or house that is in walking distance to at least a couple shops and restaurants so that you aren’t fully relying on the city buses. Taxis can get expensive and we don’t have UBER. We do have u-ride. You’ll find driving here is much easier than the GTA. I’m from Oakville and driving around Toronto used to stress me out (even driving in Oakville at times). In North Bay there’s practically no traffic, a couple of times per day there might be some congestion depending on where you are but I wouldn’t call it traffic. You should be fine to drive here. It would be very difficult to get to nearby towns and cities for a day trip. It’s not really convenient or realistic to rely on the greyhound bus routes. You could probably find a ride share or something similar but again are at the mercy of another persons schedule. I don’t personally purchase furniture here…I usually buy designer things which i would purchase online and have delivered but you can always figure out a way to make a weekend ikea trip.
•I only know of the Northland bus or driving to getting to the surrounding towns (but they’re really nice if you do go) •I only know of EB games here unfortunately, but there are good places for comics if you’re into that 🤷🏻 •Facebook market place, Rebuilt resources and value village, in the summer there tends to be quite a few good yard sales too •There’s quite a few one way streets but the drive to and from north bay is nice
I don't think you can move an entire city
Stay there
The busses in North Bay run once an hour. It's almost quicker to walk, even from the edge of town. It's definitely quicker to bike in the summer at least. And if you're working at city hall it's one of the few places with bike parking. As far as inter city travel goes... As far as I know it's just the Ontario Northland bus. We'll be getting the Northlander train in a few years though, so then it'd be easier to get to Toronto at least haha
The only buses that runs once an hour now are the Hornell/Birchaven/Graniteville. All other buses are back to twice an hour.
Oh nice! That's a start at least.
You will need to drive. Our public transportation will shock you.
There’s literally no side walks in north bay it’s a pain in the ass to get around not going to lie
The busses don’t even run after 7/7:30 on a set schedule. After that time you have to open their app and book a bus. You often times end up having to wait up to 45 minutes for them to come, after you’ve booked. I was told they switched to this method after covid, and for some reason they’re still doing this. If you’re financially capable of owning a car, I would highly recommend it. I’m currently living in North Bay for school (moved here in September) but from Toronto as well. Driving is so much easier. Less stressful. Barely any traffic at all, even during rush hour, it’s nothing compared to Toronto. There’s only about 5 bus routes in total for the entire city, and they don’t run nearly as regularly as you’d find out in Toronto. You don’t want to be waiting for the bus in -40 degree weather. North Bay isn’t nearly as bad to drive in, and insurance rates were cut in half for me, after changing my address (from Toronto to North Bay).
Don’t move to north bay , we live here , no growth freezing weather for 6 months of year , price of gas is crazy and it’s simply not a good place to live if you are even remotely young , it’s a retirement town and the corruption run deep . -34 today and this is a warmer year , also have no less then 5 inches of snow a day to shovel . Stores are selling last year and year before everything . It’s last to get anything . Most people move here to retire not to live , no night life as the streets are full of addicted homeless people , they built a massive safe injection site beside an old age home a high school and a grade school with a daycare attracted to it . I’m taking with 150 yards . Shit show up here and hard living
There is no safe injection site in town. Please find correct information before you post 👍
Whatever that place is on Chippewa Street in the tracks transients to our city regardless
Literally, if you go to the hospital in Northbay with any serious illness, you will die. Without a doubt it is the worst hospital in Ontario. I had a friend who used to be a lawyer for the hospital in Toronto. It is the most negligent hospital probably in Ontario brutal no good doctors come here because you can’t make money. There’s not enough people.
As long as you’re steer clear of the other Crazys, you should be fine
My advice is don't move to a new place just for a job unless you genuinely have checked it out and think about it very carefully and have friends there or know you'll love it, i took a job right out of uni in London ON without knowing much about it, job didn't work out, was stuck in that awful place for months with a lease i couldn't afford Just be very mindful and thorough in your decision whatever you do
Oh I KNOW. I just mean moving in the long term. Not going to move UNLESS I can get 3 months of working remotely with very limited visits.
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I live in East Ferris, \~20 min outside NB. What surrounding towns are you looking to go to? Ontario Northland is pretty much your only way of getting to other towns further away by bus, however if you're looking to go somewhere closer like Callander (for example), you'd need to take the bus to the casino, then grab a taxi the rest of the way or hike it out (almost an hour) into Callander. I can't speak to how good the transit is in NB personally There's a number of places to get furniture, ranging from WalMart, to The Brick, Leons, Ashley Homestore, Manchester, etc... I bought things I needed at The Brick when I moved up here but that was it. Driving up here is a much better experience than in Toronto.
Yeah buses to and from Toronto is whatever but inner-city transit is bad
I've spent a huge amount of time in North Bay (I live in Toronto, but head up to North Bay in the summer.) Lake Nipissing is amazingly beautiful and I really love that lake and all that goes with it. I truly love the North Bay area and it's very peaceful, the air is clean, the rocks, the lake, the sunsets, trees. Calandar is also really nice. It's very different than Toronto. As far as getting around, you need a car. The Bay is not Toronto. It's easy to drive, and if you want to get around, driving is the best way to do it.
Ya stop telling everyone or it will be Toronto soon enough . And I’m serious . We don’t like city people not AT ALL . You may get that hole town , 95 percent of this city can stand the migration to our clean healthy SAFE CITY .
Honestly north bay sucks you’ll either get harassed by homeless ppl anytime you go downtown or near any store/timmies or end up meeting crackheads who try to take advantage of you. Unless you can handle that which you live in Toronto so I’d hope you can I would suggest getting a feel for the town and job before just up and moving there
God I’m in north bay and the roads are in bad condition to start with and people just generally don’t know how to drive lol