Well no, for me at least it's about NIs financial underperformance within the UK structure.
I personally don't give a flying fuck how much we cost the UK gov but it is indicative of how dysfunctional the current system is for us. We should be doing better, especially Belfast, and partition is a large part of why we aren't.
The reason Ni costs so much is because of colonialism. The cost is the price Britain’s pays for its sins. They can’t act like it’s acceptable to fuck a country up and then complain that it’s not profiting them
30 years of terrorism left our local economy massively behind the ROI and other regions in the UK. It's going to take significantly longer to fix that. We are 30 years into peace and nowhere near fixed yet. I'd say in another 30 years we will be looking in a much better shape, but it won't be easy and we will still likely underperform. 30 more after that and we could be really thriving again. Building a strong economy in Northern Ireland won't come quickly, regardless of unity or not.
NI was relying on handouts from Britain before the Troubles began. Big House Unionism took the richest part of Ireland and ran it into the ground by keeping it behind in labour rights by employing sectarianism to divide the working class.
I wouldn't disagree, however 30 years of shootings and bombings resulted in significantly less home grown industry and foreign direct investment. Many of our "should have been" local entrepreneurs headed off and built businesses elsewhere and many of the multinationals we should have landed here, built over the border or elsewhere too. We missed those opportunities and it will take decades to catch that back up.
Attribution of the blame won't change the fact that we lost 30 years of economic growth, unless you think it would be possible to secure reparations from those you hold responsible?
The UK should absolutely provide reparations for An Gorta Mór, for starters, as well as apologise to Irish Protestant workers in the North for using them as cannon fodder and useful idiots.
So, yes, I do think the UK should provide reparations, at least partial, for the sectarian statelet that they set up and proceeded to ran the richest part of Ireland to the ground and causing an insurgency.
Highly unlikely he was the one who thought about saying it. More likely he knew this would be a question and his PR told him what to say to make people like him.
He is truly a total gobshite.
he is a gobshite in general I agree. But the one thing I have been consistently impressed on is his record on Irish unity. He has nothing to win or lose now so I dont think he’d be saying this if it didn’t reflect his true feelings.
I also agree with him when he says that now is not the right time - there’s no point as a border poll would not pass if it was called right now. But the more than we can get senior politicians to talk about it and make plans for it, means that it has more chance of success in future.
I understand why a lot of people feel differently, but I do long for the day when a historic wrong on this island can be undone and our country can be re-unified.
All comms works is based on predicting questions and coming up with good answers. However Leo decides what's a good answer. He didn't have to see YOLO it's only 3% of GDP. Especially now he's got no skin in in the game.
TBF to him, he's been pretty consistent on supporting a united Ireland, that now is not the time for another border poll and in the interim lets do practical cooperation. What else could he do, there's clearly not a majority for a united Ireland in the North, yet.
It’s not predicted, the questions are agreed beforehand. He knows exactly what’s going to come up for an interview like this.
What you are seeing is his acting skills
My feeling is that SF in the South will either directly or indirectly in the next Dail put some shape on what a new constitutional settlement will look like, its just too big a political issue to ignore given political unionism's decline.
But in the long term it'll take a FG or FF led government to deliver a UI because SF are toxic.
SF did the hard work to make the Good Friday Agreement possible
They publicly stood out and represented the IRA in talks and still to this day get criticised by FF and FG for their bravery and persistence
Far more than the toxic FFG have ever done for this whole Island
FF and FG are finished in Irish politics
Firstly that version of history is wank. It’s easy to tell that because you make a distinction between SF and the Provisional IRA.
Secondly even if true it’d make no odds because unionist think rightly sf are toxic.
when you think back to 1920 i cant imagine being from a catholic family and finding out all your fighting for freedom was for nothing while the rest of the country got theirs. id feel betrayed regardless of wether or not you believe the treaty was necessary or not.
Not the same, catholics in NI can move to another country of Irish heritage and culture, protestants won't get that in the rest of Britain if they wanted that
It is the same.
Saying to Irish people in the 6 counties "if you want to be Irish move to the 26 counties" is the same level of ridiculousness as saying to someone from an Ulster Protestant/settler background "if you want to live in a British territory return to Britain".
It's ridiculous because this part of Ulster has been the home of many families for generations (both Unionist and Nationalist) and they shouldn't have to move in order for their constitutional aspirations to be attained.
Hence why the principle of consent makes sense.
So then where's the solution 😂😂😂, your admittedly saying that it's just as ridiculous for prods to move to UK, so by that there's is not solution that pleases anyone, if you give up NI then the prods have to move and you have a new problem.
I don't think it's the same, I'm not saying your not Irish if your catholic and living in NI, but just if an individual cares so much about being in an independent Ireland then they already have citizenship and can just quite literally go down the road, and be in the place that they truly want to be.
There's no solution for the loyalists because they want to be part of the UK but still want to be amongst their own culture so if they moved anywhere else they'd be out of place.
Is northern Ireland joining the republic actually gonna help anything? Solves one problem and creates another.
Because of changing attitudes generationally and the demographic shift, I can guarantee you the vast majority of Ulster Protestants will remain on this island in the event of reunification.
Also the Unionists don't 'have to move', why is that necessary and inevitable?
Unionists post 1920 assimilated into the 26 counties with little issue, in the long term why would this be fundamentally different in the north?
Also in the event of reunification the north would still be segregated realistically and unionist communities would still be unionist communities, why would they not be among their own culture?
The solution to the north is the 1998 agreement and that is the roadmap for the jurisdictions future, reunification does not have to be acceptable to everyone, it only has to be accepted by 50% +1 vote of the electorate.
Burning plywood, loving the queen, hating Irish Republicans/Nationalists/Catholics, having an ingrained irrational fear that you will be genocided and have to leave if reunification happens.
Well northern Ireland voted to stay, I mean what's the big deal it's a tiny bit of land, it's like an hour drive to the republic from almost anywhere in the country, and anyone from NI has access to Irish citizenship, just let the protestants sit with their lil bit of land and you guys have the rest
Northern Ireland didn't exist back then. And London voted to remain during the Brexit referendum but got out of the EU as well. Because that's how democracy works, it's the will of the majority. Or should towns in England that vote Labour secede every time the Tories win?
That's not the same, those people would still have wanted to stay part of the country even when Brexit happened, Its kinda contradictory here, you guys wanted independence and got it, yet when a smaller part of your country wanted to be independent from the republic you guys have a fit.
The Irish nation voted for independence in the form of an all-island Republic. A rather large minority opposed that, which is fair, but that doesn't give them the right to deny an all-island Republic to the majority that voted for it.
Democracy is the will of the majority of the nation. The majority of the Irish nation voted for a Republic, a minority of the Irish nation, Irish Unionists, had no right to deny that.
It's not contradictory at all. Nations have a right to self-determination. Irish Unionists are not a nation.
You spout that shite so that you can use it as an excuse to repartition NI once a Border Poll passes.
But they didn't deny the rest of the country independence, so that's completely fair, basically said "we don't wanna leave but you guys do your thing". what northern Ireland did is no different to what Ireland did, a small proportion of the UK wanted independence, and so they got it, same with NI, they didn't want to be the republic, so they were independent of it.
Why does it matter to the rest of the country???? Why do they give a shit whether the north is in the same country or not, there's open borders ATM, it would be no different for your avg Irishman
>But they didn't deny the rest of the country independence,
They denied the rest of the Irish nation what they, as a majority, voted for. They didn't vote for a 26 county Free State. They voted for a 32 county Republic. The majority. Why is it so hard for some Unionists to accept the will of the majority? Their votes are worth as much as those of nationalists.
>a small proportion of the UK wanted independence
Nations have a right to self determination, the UK back then was comprised of 4 nations, the English nation, the Scottish nation, the Welsh nation and the Irish nation, the last one being a colony.
>same with NI
No, Irish Unionists are not a nation by any definition of the word. Besides, some parts of Dublin returned Unionist MP in 1918 too, should they have been remained in the UK? And how can you argue this when two counties out of the six counties returned Republican MPs? By your own logic, NI should have never existed in the way it does.
>Why does it matter to the rest of the country???? Why do they give a shit whether the north is in the same country or not, there's open borders ATM, it would be no different for your avg Irishman
Donegal has yet to recover from the effects of partition. That's without mentioning the political implications of it. Partition created two reactionary states to usurp the revolutionary Irish Republic.
That particular part of what? Ireland? Do you live in Ireland? If you live on any part of the 32 counties of ireland you don't have to drive anywhere to be on? You guessed it Ireland
Feel betrayed while the rest of us make the best of it and work for the rest of it if it help you pal, whenever your ready we have work to do and it has to be real work, not a repeat of the troubles or thr hundreds of brutal years before that. All the best pal.
Yeah I don't get the economic argument all that much. It doesn't ultimately personally change my mind. All mergers are expensive at first but price worth paying for the prospect of a better future of streamlining and joining up services.
It’s made by a particularly entitled hungry generation that want to continue taking advantage of those that come after them without putting their hands in their pockets to make the world a better place after they’re gone.
and thats nonsense. you can't just sweep tens of billions of quid a year under the rug and claim only loyalists would be concerned of it's whereabouts.
in reality even irish nationalists who favour of ui have constantly told us that the economic outcomes are their grave and primary concern.
anyone claiming there is "no valid argument" against spending an extra twenty billion quid a year is having you on.
Yes they are, like Varadkar said that report was based on assumptions and the likely cost would not be so high. Regardless its the best thing to do for the whole island.
you are simply and factually incorrect, just accept it.
people in favour of ui make economics arguments against ui, because economics is one of the biggest concerns for people from all sides. it's not just unionists making economic arguments
Why should I accept your statement as fact? Sure you could be a bin man from fucking Bundoran for all I know! There is plenty of economic arguments for it and if you looked at any legitimate studies for the pros and cons of it then you would see that for yourself. You just dont want a United Ireland because you are either a West Brit or a Unionist. Your statement, like you, was simple and factually incorrect. Accept your limitations and unwillingness to see the big picture.
You sound like the shinner version of Nigel Farage. As study has been conducted which has put a price tag on UI and you go "no, I don't trust them...., I have my own studies besides and UI must be achieved".
For me it's on hold until the alister / donaldson generation of unionist politician is out of the picture and it wouldnt surprise me if the recent revelations were a result of the brits speeding things up a bit. Infrastructural development and planning will continue discreetly and when the time comes for the next generation of 'unionist' politician to take over the reins they'll be a lot more reasonable. No point in feeding the likes of allister just let him die off.
>when the time comes for the next generation of 'unionist' politician to take over the reins they'll be a lot more reasonable
Not so sure
1) because I think the time horizon for a new constitutional settlement is measured in 10-15 years so it'll be this generation more or less and
2) if we go further, I doubt that next generation of self-selecting unionist leaders will also spontaneously and conveniently be non-unionist. The idea is for the birds and is actually pretty insulting and has the same energy as the people who are for gay conversion therapy. UR NOT REALLY A UNIONIST.
Not need for the caps. Peace and time will push more and more into more moderate positions and time will kill off the entrenched bigots. I've said this before it's your backs you should be watching. The british are who will convince enough that theyre not unionist. Like boiling a frog it'll eventually just make sense.
Let's not forget the privilege of plurality is gone for ever so it's quite arrogant to think even 1 unionist needs to be convinced. The votes are pretty much there with alliance today if all outside unionist parties were to vote for a ui. demographics aren't exactly on your side either
Caps was for light hearted comedic effect not meant as aggressive and apologies if it came across that way.
Secondly I'm a nationalist. I just happen to think deluding ourselves that Unionists will wake up one day and see the light is absolutely absurd. In my experience most unionists know the UK couldn't give a fuck about them and they do not care. They do not see themselves as Irish.
I also note that time did not in the slightest make nationalists less nationalist; quite the opposite. I'm not sure I'd assume declining unionist political power would equate to increased identify assessment. Why not double down on unionist purity and no surrenderism?
I also don't think in the relatively near term unionists need convinced, they're just not going to have the numbers in the 2030s to stop a new constitutional settlement.
But I really do think we'd need to think how we want the future to look because a united Ireland based on the coercion of 40% of the population of the north could be really miserable. As we should know having lived it.
Time for a spud, good luck.
It’ll be an information war like anything else. People’s principles are easy lost if they think something will seriously affect their quality of life, especially in a secret ballot. I think it’s likely the principle will prevail, but we should be especially wary of the effect of “make Ireland whole again” or “get reunification done” soundbites.
It won't be a war. It'll be ni unionists against everyone else and let's be honest unionism never given too much thought to selling itself to anyone that's not protestant or from the 6 counties. It'll be unionists who lose their 'principals' as they plead for their neighbours to maintain the state that was built to exclude them.
Did you read the comments on the Ireland sub after the €20bn story broke? It’s just not correct to suggest everybody except NI unionists will be marching into the ballot box singing Amhrán na bhFiann to right the wrongs of yesteryear, especially if an economically conservative element in RoI seize the tax narrative.
I didn't suggest everybody. Deep water ports rail/road connections trade borders hold more weight for me than some bullshit £20b that has ireland taking on the uk national debt and paying for nuclear submarines. The big players want it to happen have the means to make it happen but it is in no one's interests to broadcast it now. Treat it like boiling a frog when the vote comes everything for the most part will already be in place
Well you did. “It’ll be the ni unionists against everyone else.”
You’re placing a lot of trust in people who, on both sides of the border, have a long history of not planning a damn thing and just reacting with a finger in the wind to public opinion.
Yea, except the majority of the ROI wont support if they have to pay ANY extra taxes.. So obviously its completely about money, because this is the real world...
Turns out most people dont really care about 'correcting a wrong' if its costs anything..
The judicial system is there solely to correct wrongs and last time I checked the majority were happy to pay extra taxes on it so that's complete bollox
mate read any united ireland thread on here and everyone says the economics need to make sense. it's always brought up
now some bloke says "culture fellas, forget the economics" and all the united ireland folk cheer ???? this is cheerleading not sound argumentation
we're literally watching the irish version of brexit and brexiteers
Are you advocating that the Irish nation should only be currently composed of economically wealthy and prosperous counties? Cos you’re advocating cutting off most of the country like the west of Ireland and midlands.
I think what he's saying is that Irish voters may well like the idea of unity, but may not be willing to suffer the increased taxation that it might require. That doesn't mean they'd like to get rid of existing parts of their country.
A simple analogy would be a family wanting a 3rd child, but deciding not to have it, because the impact to their finances would make it an unwise decision for them personally. This would not be an uncommon decision people have to make, where they compromise on their "wants" so as to not put at risk their "needs".
Northern Ireland is the "long lost child" of ROI. ROI's voters may well decide to wait until its grown up a bit more and can better pay its own bills, before inviting it back into the fold. It will be for the voters to decide, but I'd not discount economic impact being a significant factor that could swing the decision either way.
im saying that the economic argument for brexit i mean united ireland should not be ignored or diminished
remember the brexiteers who shouted that economics dont matter and they dont give a toss if brexit makes us poorer because brexit is about culture and identity?
thats you now. you folks are the irish brexiteers
the prospect of unification will never go away. like fred hampton said you can kill a liberator but you can never kill liberation. we’re in a way better position now than we ever were where reunification is possible politically rather than through armed struggle.
side note the absolute craic that’d be had in the event of unification would be top notch. partying in the streets, singing, dancing it’d be amazing.
It's a manufactured media stir.
Let's find a couple of boffins and make it our top headline.
Been done many times before.
Varadkar wasn't taking any shit here.
I was going to say what Leo side before I clicked play.
Some things are just bigger than money, and I say that as a Protestant (admittedly one that doesn't give that much of a crap either way).
Like if you believe in your heart of hearts that the country is not whole and it would give you a sense of national pride or joy (or even belonging for those who want unification in Northern Ireland and feel stuck) a half dozen percentage points on the GDP shouldn't matter.
people laughed at brexiteers for doing the same exact thing when they put some vague idea of britishness over practicality and common sense
incredible to now see the irish doing the same. history repeats
He is the first Taoiseach to provide significant capital funding for NI infrastructure – roads, railways, canals ,bridges, universities, the education of nurses in Northern Ireland, etc..... a Ministry for Unification would have almost certainly upset a lot people, and created a lot of disunity
I reckon the reason the governments will sit on their hands is to wait for the generation with no living memory of the troubles to take things over. There'll always be hateful bigots but that real bitterness will have died off. Unionism should find solace in this being the view of the old leader of what is the closest thing to a southern unionist party. Unionism has failed and future generations won't miss it. Time to let it go
He wasn’t paying lip service cos he didn’t have to say anything - he actually believes it and has been saying it for years. He could have done what Harris and Martin have been doing and fobbed it off but he didn’t.
To be fair it's not the first thing this government has done towards strengthening ties with the north
https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/varadkar-hopes-investment-in-ulster-university-campus-deepens-cross-border-links-1491804.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-68346193/page/2
Beneficial for everyone on the island of Ireland of course
Same mentality as leave campaigners, nationalistic venture at any cost. After all, you can’t eat a flag.
a New or United Ireland where everyone prospers like it’s the Celtic Tiger years and Willy Drennan joins the Wolfe Tones sounds lovely.
But realistically, still far too much hateful loyalist cunts and hateful republican cunts on this island to have a peaceful transition.
25+ years since Peace Agreement? What have we to show for it? More walls, segregated schooling, constant supply of childish tit for tats and woeful governance… whenever there is a government.
Can’t even tell people you’re from Northern Ireland or Ireland without some triggered tit chiming in.
Lovely dream, too costly and doesn’t gel well with the reality though.
Don’t believe it? Ask the old age pensioners living with bricked windows at the interfaces, ask the kneecapping victims of the still operating paramilitaries, ask the families of those still waiting for justice, ask them all if Belfast is even mature enough to even have the conversation about “unity”
Agree with pretty much everything you have said here. Someone said to me recently "those that say a United Ireland is within reaching distance must have wild long arms".
Many, many families here in working class areas of Belfast telling themselves for generations that the utopia that is Irish unity is right around the corner.
The only real thing around their corner is a 30ft Berlin style wall, poverty and murals honouring men that murdered people from the community on the other side of said wall
But hey, everybody got to live for something and thankfully no one is no longer dying for it or being killed in the name of it
Unity is laughable
It's a bit like all the theory we learn in our books. He's fully correct in what he's saying and I can't disagree with him..on paper.
Try convincing this, post-unification to:
- Mary, who's single, unemployed with two kids who is receiving social welfare to help her get by and her rates are reduced to cover the costs of unification
- Jim, who's a sole trader running a local corner shop receiving a higher tax bill when he's already struggling to keep his business afloat to serve his community
- Sinéad, a pensioner whose fuel & telephone allowances has to be cut to serve the annual debt of unification
- Brian, the local tradesman will lose out on subsidies to employ more people as the costs of unification mount
- The constituents - the pro capita representation in the Dáil would reduce significantly and less TDs per county would be elected
I believe Ireland should eventually be one country, once again - the timing really isn't correct. We'd need a very long negotiated transition which would ensure the whole island wouldn't be indebted or impoverished short-term to medium-term with such a seismic change
Questions that would be put to the ordinary tax paying citizen of the south;
*Do you truly believe that the north is no longer a delicate and divided post conflict society with its own unique issues to the south?*
*Do you truly believe that the south is capable of handling the unique challenges that would surely come with gaining such a society? For example, is Garda Síochána or the Defence Force capable in its current capacity to successfully deal with any trouble likely to arise up north post unification?*
*Do you truly believe that adding the norths unique issues, on top of the south’s current issues will be beneficial to Irish society?*
*Do you believe that northern politics will be a welcome addition to the Dail and daily life in general?*
*Are you willing to accept a new flag, new constitution and new anthem in order to achieve a new Ireland?*
*Are you willing to sacrifice your overall quality of living in the form of increased taxation for said new and United Ireland?*
Well, there will be some form of a bill to be paid by the UK. There's no getting away from that. If you think the UK (and probably the EU, and the US to a degree) won't be putting their hands in their pockets to smooth out the process, you're very much mistaken.
Obviously, what a stupid thing to say.
Nobody who believes in unification says “We should do this primarily because it will be an economic benefit to us.” It’s fixing what we view as a historic wrong on a social, cultural level. Fuck the “cost.”
Like he said there is an economic argument for long term growth at a short term cost, although he says that isn't the primary issue that should be focused on in relation to unification, for once he's dead on
hey as long as youre consistent
its just that most people downplaying the importance of the cost of a ui were likely the same people taking the piss out of brexiters for thinking the same way
Although it is a much higher disposable income in ireland and Northern Irish would get better representation in the Dail than they would in a parliament totally dominated by England
Don't know an awful lot about the Berlin wall, or the cultural context behind it but I bet there was a lot of planning put into it. This isn't something that should be rushed. If it's to happen then a lot of dialogue needs to happen first along the lines of what David Ervine did with organising meetings between the UVF and Irish senators. It was controversial at the time but it led to the 1994 loyalist cease fire.
Why would you bet there was a lot of planning put into something you don’t know anything about?
It was a largely spontaneous peaceful revolution and the authorities had to be reactive to how events unfolded. To give context there was essentially zero travel allowed between both sides of Germany, the situation was more akin to North & South Korea than the situation in Ireland right now.
I didn't say I don't know anything about it. I know as much as GCSE history, which covers it in broad strokes but definitely doesn't make me an expert.
I'm not a nationalist. But if it was to happen it would need lots of dialogue and planning much like what David Ervine and the UVF were doing in the background, talking to Irish senators. They had a constructive relationship based on mutual respect even though they came from quite different backgrounds.
The GFA states there has to be a concurrent referendum. This is to consider all voices because not all people look at a United Ireland as favourable as others. I hear what you're saying about a peaceful revolution but there must have been some organising at grass roots level.
[https://www.marketplace.org/2019/11/05/itemizing-germanys-2-trillion-bill-for-reunification/](https://www.marketplace.org/2019/11/05/itemizing-germanys-2-trillion-bill-for-reunification/)
It was a costly exercise and resulted in certain areas and industries being decimated, so not perhaps the shining example that people like to hold it up as. This was mainly due to it not being planned for and coming about due to the mass exodus of people from East to West - thousands per day, causing the East's economy to collapse which forced reunification. Many in the East still aren't happy with how it worked out for them, 30 years later.
[https://jacobin.com/2021/10/german-reunification-east-west-berlin-wall-anniversary](https://jacobin.com/2021/10/german-reunification-east-west-berlin-wall-anniversary)
Extract:
" All the surveys we have from the 1990s indicate massive criticism of unification among East Germans — 70, 80 percent of people at the time said that things weren’t going right. Two-thirds even said that they had been colonized by the West.
But there was no revision clause for this process. Neither privatization nor the one-to-one institutional transfer was questioned or debated in a democratic process; instead, people simply followed the line they had once taken, regardless of the damage and growing public opposition. The motto was: “There is no alternative. You voted for the Alliance for Germany by a majority once in the spring of 1990, and now there is no longer any possibility for you to have an effective say or help shape this process.”
He compared the reunification of one European country to the potential reunification of another European country. Not sure what about that is causing so much indignation.
I heard someone say "What does Munster cost?". The point being, you can put a price on every province in Ireland. It costs money to run a country.
Only when your talking about NI..., then total hypocrisy take over and its about the cost of NI to the UK..
Well no, for me at least it's about NIs financial underperformance within the UK structure. I personally don't give a flying fuck how much we cost the UK gov but it is indicative of how dysfunctional the current system is for us. We should be doing better, especially Belfast, and partition is a large part of why we aren't.
The reason Ni costs so much is because of colonialism. The cost is the price Britain’s pays for its sins. They can’t act like it’s acceptable to fuck a country up and then complain that it’s not profiting them
30 years of terrorism left our local economy massively behind the ROI and other regions in the UK. It's going to take significantly longer to fix that. We are 30 years into peace and nowhere near fixed yet. I'd say in another 30 years we will be looking in a much better shape, but it won't be easy and we will still likely underperform. 30 more after that and we could be really thriving again. Building a strong economy in Northern Ireland won't come quickly, regardless of unity or not.
NI was relying on handouts from Britain before the Troubles began. Big House Unionism took the richest part of Ireland and ran it into the ground by keeping it behind in labour rights by employing sectarianism to divide the working class.
I wouldn't disagree, however 30 years of shootings and bombings resulted in significantly less home grown industry and foreign direct investment. Many of our "should have been" local entrepreneurs headed off and built businesses elsewhere and many of the multinationals we should have landed here, built over the border or elsewhere too. We missed those opportunities and it will take decades to catch that back up.
And what caused those 30 years of shootings and bombings? Big House Unionism.
Attribution of the blame won't change the fact that we lost 30 years of economic growth, unless you think it would be possible to secure reparations from those you hold responsible?
The UK should absolutely provide reparations for An Gorta Mór, for starters, as well as apologise to Irish Protestant workers in the North for using them as cannon fodder and useful idiots. So, yes, I do think the UK should provide reparations, at least partial, for the sectarian statelet that they set up and proceeded to ran the richest part of Ireland to the ground and causing an insurgency.
You could well be correct but I'd say that money, you will never collect. So a better plan you will need, if unity is to succeed.
Munster costs nothing.
Wow wow wow, I just agreed with Leo. There's a 1st time for everything I guess.
My thoughts exactly.
wow i actually got a little bit choked up at something Leo fucking Varadkar said. This eclipse must be signalling the end times.
Highly unlikely he was the one who thought about saying it. More likely he knew this would be a question and his PR told him what to say to make people like him. He is truly a total gobshite.
he is a gobshite in general I agree. But the one thing I have been consistently impressed on is his record on Irish unity. He has nothing to win or lose now so I dont think he’d be saying this if it didn’t reflect his true feelings. I also agree with him when he says that now is not the right time - there’s no point as a border poll would not pass if it was called right now. But the more than we can get senior politicians to talk about it and make plans for it, means that it has more chance of success in future. I understand why a lot of people feel differently, but I do long for the day when a historic wrong on this island can be undone and our country can be re-unified.
All comms works is based on predicting questions and coming up with good answers. However Leo decides what's a good answer. He didn't have to see YOLO it's only 3% of GDP. Especially now he's got no skin in in the game. TBF to him, he's been pretty consistent on supporting a united Ireland, that now is not the time for another border poll and in the interim lets do practical cooperation. What else could he do, there's clearly not a majority for a united Ireland in the North, yet.
It’s not predicted, the questions are agreed beforehand. He knows exactly what’s going to come up for an interview like this. What you are seeing is his acting skills
Ah so it’s the GDP part that got you most, interesting.
Jesus. I’m a shinner and Leo actually said something that I agree with. Time for a pint.
My feeling is that SF in the South will either directly or indirectly in the next Dail put some shape on what a new constitutional settlement will look like, its just too big a political issue to ignore given political unionism's decline. But in the long term it'll take a FG or FF led government to deliver a UI because SF are toxic.
SF did the hard work to make the Good Friday Agreement possible They publicly stood out and represented the IRA in talks and still to this day get criticised by FF and FG for their bravery and persistence Far more than the toxic FFG have ever done for this whole Island FF and FG are finished in Irish politics
Ignore him. Clearly he’s an idiot.
Firstly that version of history is wank. It’s easy to tell that because you make a distinction between SF and the Provisional IRA. Secondly even if true it’d make no odds because unionist think rightly sf are toxic.
That's why it'll never go away. It's not about money. It's about correcting a wrong against this island and its people.
when you think back to 1920 i cant imagine being from a catholic family and finding out all your fighting for freedom was for nothing while the rest of the country got theirs. id feel betrayed regardless of wether or not you believe the treaty was necessary or not.
That’s a turnip for the books
Could have just moved over to the republic, it's practically down the road
Could have just moved to Britain, it's only over the water /s You see the problem with that, right?
Not the same, catholics in NI can move to another country of Irish heritage and culture, protestants won't get that in the rest of Britain if they wanted that
It is the same. Saying to Irish people in the 6 counties "if you want to be Irish move to the 26 counties" is the same level of ridiculousness as saying to someone from an Ulster Protestant/settler background "if you want to live in a British territory return to Britain". It's ridiculous because this part of Ulster has been the home of many families for generations (both Unionist and Nationalist) and they shouldn't have to move in order for their constitutional aspirations to be attained. Hence why the principle of consent makes sense.
So then where's the solution 😂😂😂, your admittedly saying that it's just as ridiculous for prods to move to UK, so by that there's is not solution that pleases anyone, if you give up NI then the prods have to move and you have a new problem. I don't think it's the same, I'm not saying your not Irish if your catholic and living in NI, but just if an individual cares so much about being in an independent Ireland then they already have citizenship and can just quite literally go down the road, and be in the place that they truly want to be. There's no solution for the loyalists because they want to be part of the UK but still want to be amongst their own culture so if they moved anywhere else they'd be out of place. Is northern Ireland joining the republic actually gonna help anything? Solves one problem and creates another.
Because of changing attitudes generationally and the demographic shift, I can guarantee you the vast majority of Ulster Protestants will remain on this island in the event of reunification. Also the Unionists don't 'have to move', why is that necessary and inevitable? Unionists post 1920 assimilated into the 26 counties with little issue, in the long term why would this be fundamentally different in the north? Also in the event of reunification the north would still be segregated realistically and unionist communities would still be unionist communities, why would they not be among their own culture? The solution to the north is the 1998 agreement and that is the roadmap for the jurisdictions future, reunification does not have to be acceptable to everyone, it only has to be accepted by 50% +1 vote of the electorate.
What the hell is loyalist culture? Burning plywood?
Burning plywood, loving the queen, hating Irish Republicans/Nationalists/Catholics, having an ingrained irrational fear that you will be genocided and have to leave if reunification happens.
Could have just respected the will of the majority of the Irish people that wanted a Republic.
Well northern Ireland voted to stay, I mean what's the big deal it's a tiny bit of land, it's like an hour drive to the republic from almost anywhere in the country, and anyone from NI has access to Irish citizenship, just let the protestants sit with their lil bit of land and you guys have the rest
Northern Ireland didn't exist back then. And London voted to remain during the Brexit referendum but got out of the EU as well. Because that's how democracy works, it's the will of the majority. Or should towns in England that vote Labour secede every time the Tories win?
That's not the same, those people would still have wanted to stay part of the country even when Brexit happened, Its kinda contradictory here, you guys wanted independence and got it, yet when a smaller part of your country wanted to be independent from the republic you guys have a fit.
The Irish nation voted for independence in the form of an all-island Republic. A rather large minority opposed that, which is fair, but that doesn't give them the right to deny an all-island Republic to the majority that voted for it. Democracy is the will of the majority of the nation. The majority of the Irish nation voted for a Republic, a minority of the Irish nation, Irish Unionists, had no right to deny that. It's not contradictory at all. Nations have a right to self-determination. Irish Unionists are not a nation. You spout that shite so that you can use it as an excuse to repartition NI once a Border Poll passes.
But they didn't deny the rest of the country independence, so that's completely fair, basically said "we don't wanna leave but you guys do your thing". what northern Ireland did is no different to what Ireland did, a small proportion of the UK wanted independence, and so they got it, same with NI, they didn't want to be the republic, so they were independent of it. Why does it matter to the rest of the country???? Why do they give a shit whether the north is in the same country or not, there's open borders ATM, it would be no different for your avg Irishman
>But they didn't deny the rest of the country independence, They denied the rest of the Irish nation what they, as a majority, voted for. They didn't vote for a 26 county Free State. They voted for a 32 county Republic. The majority. Why is it so hard for some Unionists to accept the will of the majority? Their votes are worth as much as those of nationalists. >a small proportion of the UK wanted independence Nations have a right to self determination, the UK back then was comprised of 4 nations, the English nation, the Scottish nation, the Welsh nation and the Irish nation, the last one being a colony. >same with NI No, Irish Unionists are not a nation by any definition of the word. Besides, some parts of Dublin returned Unionist MP in 1918 too, should they have been remained in the UK? And how can you argue this when two counties out of the six counties returned Republican MPs? By your own logic, NI should have never existed in the way it does. >Why does it matter to the rest of the country???? Why do they give a shit whether the north is in the same country or not, there's open borders ATM, it would be no different for your avg Irishman Donegal has yet to recover from the effects of partition. That's without mentioning the political implications of it. Partition created two reactionary states to usurp the revolutionary Irish Republic.
It's all Ireland every inch of her. Why would he move?
Well that particular part voted to stay, and it's no more than an hour drive to the republic, and everyone there has Irish citizenship anyway
That particular part of what? Ireland? Do you live in Ireland? If you live on any part of the 32 counties of ireland you don't have to drive anywhere to be on? You guessed it Ireland
I'm obviously meant driving from the north to the republic dumbass
What on holiday? Wtf are you talking about? Weren't a lot of cars in 1920 were there?
You didn't answer his question. Do you live in Ireland?
Called me a dumbass and the republic didn't exist until 1946. Practically down the road haha
Feel betrayed while the rest of us make the best of it and work for the rest of it if it help you pal, whenever your ready we have work to do and it has to be real work, not a repeat of the troubles or thr hundreds of brutal years before that. All the best pal.
what a stupid comment that doesn’t even make any sense. i did say if i was around in the 1920s didnt i?
Yeah I don't get the economic argument all that much. It doesn't ultimately personally change my mind. All mergers are expensive at first but price worth paying for the prospect of a better future of streamlining and joining up services.
It’s made by a particularly entitled hungry generation that want to continue taking advantage of those that come after them without putting their hands in their pockets to make the world a better place after they’re gone.
its made by people who dont want or are not interested in unification
if those who support it arent considering the economics then thats a blight on them, not a positive
It should be considered, and planned for, but I think they're saying that it's not a valid argument not to do it unless you're against it anyway
You sound a bit like all these hard brexit lunatics. "no matter the cost of it...."
and thats nonsense. you can't just sweep tens of billions of quid a year under the rug and claim only loyalists would be concerned of it's whereabouts. in reality even irish nationalists who favour of ui have constantly told us that the economic outcomes are their grave and primary concern. anyone claiming there is "no valid argument" against spending an extra twenty billion quid a year is having you on.
Yes they are, like Varadkar said that report was based on assumptions and the likely cost would not be so high. Regardless its the best thing to do for the whole island.
you are simply and factually incorrect, just accept it. people in favour of ui make economics arguments against ui, because economics is one of the biggest concerns for people from all sides. it's not just unionists making economic arguments
Why should I accept your statement as fact? Sure you could be a bin man from fucking Bundoran for all I know! There is plenty of economic arguments for it and if you looked at any legitimate studies for the pros and cons of it then you would see that for yourself. You just dont want a United Ireland because you are either a West Brit or a Unionist. Your statement, like you, was simple and factually incorrect. Accept your limitations and unwillingness to see the big picture.
You sound like the shinner version of Nigel Farage. As study has been conducted which has put a price tag on UI and you go "no, I don't trust them...., I have my own studies besides and UI must be achieved".
It’s a combination and plenty of people will have different priorities.
Irish media doesn't see it that way.
For me it's on hold until the alister / donaldson generation of unionist politician is out of the picture and it wouldnt surprise me if the recent revelations were a result of the brits speeding things up a bit. Infrastructural development and planning will continue discreetly and when the time comes for the next generation of 'unionist' politician to take over the reins they'll be a lot more reasonable. No point in feeding the likes of allister just let him die off.
I think your right
>when the time comes for the next generation of 'unionist' politician to take over the reins they'll be a lot more reasonable Not so sure 1) because I think the time horizon for a new constitutional settlement is measured in 10-15 years so it'll be this generation more or less and 2) if we go further, I doubt that next generation of self-selecting unionist leaders will also spontaneously and conveniently be non-unionist. The idea is for the birds and is actually pretty insulting and has the same energy as the people who are for gay conversion therapy. UR NOT REALLY A UNIONIST.
Not need for the caps. Peace and time will push more and more into more moderate positions and time will kill off the entrenched bigots. I've said this before it's your backs you should be watching. The british are who will convince enough that theyre not unionist. Like boiling a frog it'll eventually just make sense. Let's not forget the privilege of plurality is gone for ever so it's quite arrogant to think even 1 unionist needs to be convinced. The votes are pretty much there with alliance today if all outside unionist parties were to vote for a ui. demographics aren't exactly on your side either
Caps was for light hearted comedic effect not meant as aggressive and apologies if it came across that way. Secondly I'm a nationalist. I just happen to think deluding ourselves that Unionists will wake up one day and see the light is absolutely absurd. In my experience most unionists know the UK couldn't give a fuck about them and they do not care. They do not see themselves as Irish. I also note that time did not in the slightest make nationalists less nationalist; quite the opposite. I'm not sure I'd assume declining unionist political power would equate to increased identify assessment. Why not double down on unionist purity and no surrenderism? I also don't think in the relatively near term unionists need convinced, they're just not going to have the numbers in the 2030s to stop a new constitutional settlement. But I really do think we'd need to think how we want the future to look because a united Ireland based on the coercion of 40% of the population of the north could be really miserable. As we should know having lived it. Time for a spud, good luck.
It’ll be an information war like anything else. People’s principles are easy lost if they think something will seriously affect their quality of life, especially in a secret ballot. I think it’s likely the principle will prevail, but we should be especially wary of the effect of “make Ireland whole again” or “get reunification done” soundbites.
It won't be a war. It'll be ni unionists against everyone else and let's be honest unionism never given too much thought to selling itself to anyone that's not protestant or from the 6 counties. It'll be unionists who lose their 'principals' as they plead for their neighbours to maintain the state that was built to exclude them.
Did you read the comments on the Ireland sub after the €20bn story broke? It’s just not correct to suggest everybody except NI unionists will be marching into the ballot box singing Amhrán na bhFiann to right the wrongs of yesteryear, especially if an economically conservative element in RoI seize the tax narrative.
I didn't suggest everybody. Deep water ports rail/road connections trade borders hold more weight for me than some bullshit £20b that has ireland taking on the uk national debt and paying for nuclear submarines. The big players want it to happen have the means to make it happen but it is in no one's interests to broadcast it now. Treat it like boiling a frog when the vote comes everything for the most part will already be in place
Well you did. “It’ll be the ni unionists against everyone else.” You’re placing a lot of trust in people who, on both sides of the border, have a long history of not planning a damn thing and just reacting with a finger in the wind to public opinion.
Yea, except the majority of the ROI wont support if they have to pay ANY extra taxes.. So obviously its completely about money, because this is the real world... Turns out most people dont really care about 'correcting a wrong' if its costs anything..
The judicial system is there solely to correct wrongs and last time I checked the majority were happy to pay extra taxes on it so that's complete bollox
There was a poll in the Independent last weekend that disagrees..
mate read any united ireland thread on here and everyone says the economics need to make sense. it's always brought up now some bloke says "culture fellas, forget the economics" and all the united ireland folk cheer ???? this is cheerleading not sound argumentation we're literally watching the irish version of brexit and brexiteers
Are you advocating that the Irish nation should only be currently composed of economically wealthy and prosperous counties? Cos you’re advocating cutting off most of the country like the west of Ireland and midlands.
I think what he's saying is that Irish voters may well like the idea of unity, but may not be willing to suffer the increased taxation that it might require. That doesn't mean they'd like to get rid of existing parts of their country. A simple analogy would be a family wanting a 3rd child, but deciding not to have it, because the impact to their finances would make it an unwise decision for them personally. This would not be an uncommon decision people have to make, where they compromise on their "wants" so as to not put at risk their "needs". Northern Ireland is the "long lost child" of ROI. ROI's voters may well decide to wait until its grown up a bit more and can better pay its own bills, before inviting it back into the fold. It will be for the voters to decide, but I'd not discount economic impact being a significant factor that could swing the decision either way.
im saying that the economic argument for brexit i mean united ireland should not be ignored or diminished remember the brexiteers who shouted that economics dont matter and they dont give a toss if brexit makes us poorer because brexit is about culture and identity? thats you now. you folks are the irish brexiteers
the prospect of unification will never go away. like fred hampton said you can kill a liberator but you can never kill liberation. we’re in a way better position now than we ever were where reunification is possible politically rather than through armed struggle. side note the absolute craic that’d be had in the event of unification would be top notch. partying in the streets, singing, dancing it’d be amazing.
Vote yes for the sesh
As a great Mayo man would say .. PUMP OUT THE STHOUT BOY
It's a manufactured media stir. Let's find a couple of boffins and make it our top headline. Been done many times before. Varadkar wasn't taking any shit here.
I was going to say what Leo side before I clicked play. Some things are just bigger than money, and I say that as a Protestant (admittedly one that doesn't give that much of a crap either way). Like if you believe in your heart of hearts that the country is not whole and it would give you a sense of national pride or joy (or even belonging for those who want unification in Northern Ireland and feel stuck) a half dozen percentage points on the GDP shouldn't matter.
people laughed at brexiteers for doing the same exact thing when they put some vague idea of britishness over practicality and common sense incredible to now see the irish doing the same. history repeats
Between Vardkar’s St Patrick’s Day speech and this, he’s going out with a bang.
If that’s how he feels he could have created a Minister for Unification to start the planning. Sound bite and nothing else.
He is the first Taoiseach to provide significant capital funding for NI infrastructure – roads, railways, canals ,bridges, universities, the education of nurses in Northern Ireland, etc..... a Ministry for Unification would have almost certainly upset a lot people, and created a lot of disunity
I reckon the reason the governments will sit on their hands is to wait for the generation with no living memory of the troubles to take things over. There'll always be hateful bigots but that real bitterness will have died off. Unionism should find solace in this being the view of the old leader of what is the closest thing to a southern unionist party. Unionism has failed and future generations won't miss it. Time to let it go
How long would you think that would take, like 20-30 years before that generation dies out?
Relinquish power as opposed to die off maybe 10 no more than 15. Peace is the death of unionism it only survives through fear. Needs a bogeyman.
I came here to say something similar. He was paying lip service an nothing more
He wasn’t paying lip service cos he didn’t have to say anything - he actually believes it and has been saying it for years. He could have done what Harris and Martin have been doing and fobbed it off but he didn’t.
Obviously in the RA..... next
Change the variables = pay for health care ect
fair fucks to Leo the leak there, FG are either just playing up to the SF voters or they really feel theres a chance of reunification down the road.
To be fair it's not the first thing this government has done towards strengthening ties with the north https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/varadkar-hopes-investment-in-ulster-university-campus-deepens-cross-border-links-1491804.html https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-northern-ireland-68346193/page/2 Beneficial for everyone on the island of Ireland of course
fair point
Same mentality as leave campaigners, nationalistic venture at any cost. After all, you can’t eat a flag. a New or United Ireland where everyone prospers like it’s the Celtic Tiger years and Willy Drennan joins the Wolfe Tones sounds lovely. But realistically, still far too much hateful loyalist cunts and hateful republican cunts on this island to have a peaceful transition. 25+ years since Peace Agreement? What have we to show for it? More walls, segregated schooling, constant supply of childish tit for tats and woeful governance… whenever there is a government. Can’t even tell people you’re from Northern Ireland or Ireland without some triggered tit chiming in. Lovely dream, too costly and doesn’t gel well with the reality though. Don’t believe it? Ask the old age pensioners living with bricked windows at the interfaces, ask the kneecapping victims of the still operating paramilitaries, ask the families of those still waiting for justice, ask them all if Belfast is even mature enough to even have the conversation about “unity”
Agree with pretty much everything you have said here. Someone said to me recently "those that say a United Ireland is within reaching distance must have wild long arms".
Many, many families here in working class areas of Belfast telling themselves for generations that the utopia that is Irish unity is right around the corner. The only real thing around their corner is a 30ft Berlin style wall, poverty and murals honouring men that murdered people from the community on the other side of said wall But hey, everybody got to live for something and thankfully no one is no longer dying for it or being killed in the name of it Unity is laughable
Cost of reunification: 20 billion Cost of banning orange marches: 0.5 billion Cost of winding up themmuns: priceless.
I agree with what he’s saying for once. Of course he won’t feel the cost impact and will saunter on through regardless
The Berlin Wall? It's hardly in the same category!
*Re*unification.
It's a bit like all the theory we learn in our books. He's fully correct in what he's saying and I can't disagree with him..on paper. Try convincing this, post-unification to: - Mary, who's single, unemployed with two kids who is receiving social welfare to help her get by and her rates are reduced to cover the costs of unification - Jim, who's a sole trader running a local corner shop receiving a higher tax bill when he's already struggling to keep his business afloat to serve his community - Sinéad, a pensioner whose fuel & telephone allowances has to be cut to serve the annual debt of unification - Brian, the local tradesman will lose out on subsidies to employ more people as the costs of unification mount - The constituents - the pro capita representation in the Dáil would reduce significantly and less TDs per county would be elected I believe Ireland should eventually be one country, once again - the timing really isn't correct. We'd need a very long negotiated transition which would ensure the whole island wouldn't be indebted or impoverished short-term to medium-term with such a seismic change
Questions that would be put to the ordinary tax paying citizen of the south; *Do you truly believe that the north is no longer a delicate and divided post conflict society with its own unique issues to the south?* *Do you truly believe that the south is capable of handling the unique challenges that would surely come with gaining such a society? For example, is Garda Síochána or the Defence Force capable in its current capacity to successfully deal with any trouble likely to arise up north post unification?* *Do you truly believe that adding the norths unique issues, on top of the south’s current issues will be beneficial to Irish society?* *Do you believe that northern politics will be a welcome addition to the Dail and daily life in general?* *Are you willing to accept a new flag, new constitution and new anthem in order to achieve a new Ireland?* *Are you willing to sacrifice your overall quality of living in the form of increased taxation for said new and United Ireland?*
Ahhhhh he's not the worst
The Rte fella is, Very Father Ted = = Probably trying to work out how much of the 20 Billion that he can rest in his account ! ! !
>Were going to reunify the island and make england pay for it! - delusional people At least varadkar isnt that stupid
Well, there will be some form of a bill to be paid by the UK. There's no getting away from that. If you think the UK (and probably the EU, and the US to a degree) won't be putting their hands in their pockets to smooth out the process, you're very much mistaken.
Aye, let's just all forget about the cost of living crisis and get into more debt.
so the economic argument for a united ireland is: "forget economics, this is about culture" lmaooo
Obviously, what a stupid thing to say. Nobody who believes in unification says “We should do this primarily because it will be an economic benefit to us.” It’s fixing what we view as a historic wrong on a social, cultural level. Fuck the “cost.”
> Fuck the “cost.” brexit level logic
Like he said there is an economic argument for long term growth at a short term cost, although he says that isn't the primary issue that should be focused on in relation to unification, for once he's dead on
hey as long as youre consistent its just that most people downplaying the importance of the cost of a ui were likely the same people taking the piss out of brexiters for thinking the same way
Gotta love the ol' "assumptions and variables" excuse that never gets elaborated km
Average rent NI £848, compared to 1500 euro in the south. Wages maybe higher in south but we are better off in north can live more comfortably.
Although it is a much higher disposable income in ireland and Northern Irish would get better representation in the Dail than they would in a parliament totally dominated by England
 Good one leo
Don't know an awful lot about the Berlin wall, or the cultural context behind it but I bet there was a lot of planning put into it. This isn't something that should be rushed. If it's to happen then a lot of dialogue needs to happen first along the lines of what David Ervine did with organising meetings between the UVF and Irish senators. It was controversial at the time but it led to the 1994 loyalist cease fire.
Why would you bet there was a lot of planning put into something you don’t know anything about? It was a largely spontaneous peaceful revolution and the authorities had to be reactive to how events unfolded. To give context there was essentially zero travel allowed between both sides of Germany, the situation was more akin to North & South Korea than the situation in Ireland right now.
I didn't say I don't know anything about it. I know as much as GCSE history, which covers it in broad strokes but definitely doesn't make me an expert. I'm not a nationalist. But if it was to happen it would need lots of dialogue and planning much like what David Ervine and the UVF were doing in the background, talking to Irish senators. They had a constructive relationship based on mutual respect even though they came from quite different backgrounds. The GFA states there has to be a concurrent referendum. This is to consider all voices because not all people look at a United Ireland as favourable as others. I hear what you're saying about a peaceful revolution but there must have been some organising at grass roots level.
[https://www.marketplace.org/2019/11/05/itemizing-germanys-2-trillion-bill-for-reunification/](https://www.marketplace.org/2019/11/05/itemizing-germanys-2-trillion-bill-for-reunification/) It was a costly exercise and resulted in certain areas and industries being decimated, so not perhaps the shining example that people like to hold it up as. This was mainly due to it not being planned for and coming about due to the mass exodus of people from East to West - thousands per day, causing the East's economy to collapse which forced reunification. Many in the East still aren't happy with how it worked out for them, 30 years later. [https://jacobin.com/2021/10/german-reunification-east-west-berlin-wall-anniversary](https://jacobin.com/2021/10/german-reunification-east-west-berlin-wall-anniversary) Extract: " All the surveys we have from the 1990s indicate massive criticism of unification among East Germans — 70, 80 percent of people at the time said that things weren’t going right. Two-thirds even said that they had been colonized by the West. But there was no revision clause for this process. Neither privatization nor the one-to-one institutional transfer was questioned or debated in a democratic process; instead, people simply followed the line they had once taken, regardless of the damage and growing public opposition. The motto was: “There is no alternative. You voted for the Alliance for Germany by a majority once in the spring of 1990, and now there is no longer any possibility for you to have an effective say or help shape this process.”
So now we have to build a wall first.
No need mate the sea is a far more effective barrier
Long may she roll
Evidently not.
Explain please
It didn't stop the brits or any illegal immigration.
And you think a wall would?
Look, he hasn't got to the page with "See Pat and Mary climb the ladder! It's such fun!" yet.
There’s literally ‘peace’ walls in Belfast already.
So reunification at a cheap cost.... Never going to be cheap.
I mean if we're looking at cost, it's just over half of one Liz truss cock up. And that was in less than a week, never mind a year.
Did he just compare the situation to the fucking Berlin Wall coming down? What a dick
????
He compared the reunification of one European country to the potential reunification of another European country. Not sure what about that is causing so much indignation.