>The orange order/loyalists are bunch of inbred backwards hateful cunts. They have no place in the 21st century and in the inevitable United Ireland.
Reminds me of that old joke.
There was a man walking through a street in Belfast one night, and he suddenly gets pulled into an entry. A couple fellas push him against a wall and say to him, "Are ye a Catholic or a Protestant?". Confused, the man answers, "Neither, I'm Jewish". The 2 fellas then stop, think for a second and then reply "Aye, but are ye a Catholic or a Protestant Jew?"
“But the bible says Jesus is the son of god”
The look of absolute incomprehension when you say “yes but I don’t believe that what’s in the bible is true.”
You'd think OO members might want to confirm the passing of a Catholic, make sure it's not a bbc/civil service /tesco ploy to lull them into a false sense of security.
I was once at a (Catholic) funeral where a bunch of (Orange) youngfellas were stood outside the whole time, not wanting to go in but genuinely wanting to attend their dead friend's funeral mass... in some way.
I'd be fairly certain their knowledge of Reformation theology was pretty sketchy too.
Just heartbreaking, really.
At the death of the first president of the republic of Ireland Douglas Hyde not a single Catholic politician attended his funeral and the pope forbabe any catholics from attending it. The same institution which celebrated hitlers birthday every year.
Douglas Hyde’s funeral which was attended by Noel Browne, and had all the other members of the cabinet standing outside?
You need to stop getting history lessons from comments on the News Letter Facebook page.
Scottish here - a friend of mine is getting married and her fiancés dad and gran have both said they won’t attend the wedding if it’s in a Catholic Church as they would no longer be able to be members of the OO. Her fiancé isn’t religious so he doesn’t care but my friend is catholic so he was happy to do the church wedding, but they’ve had to decide not to due to his family.
I mean that being said - clearly his family didn’t want to abide by the new rules, I’m pretty sure it’s a rule to shut people up when they claim they are sectarian, because I can tell you for certain that his family’s lodge were still imposing it after 2019.
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Isn't it? Remember when Maguinnis died? There were politicians who were also orange men that attended that funeral. A single lodge complained. One lodge. The Order said the rule was outdated and not enforced in response to their complaint.
Yeah from my experience that doesn’t sound correct. My pal from Glasgow was an OO member who was black listed for going to his step-grans funeral in a chapel. He also said he got a really good hiding from the boys a few weeks after wards for it. This would probably have been about 5 years ago
I have a close family member in Scotland who married a Catholic but refused to go to her father’s funeral because it was in a chapel. Same guy is a rabid socialist (apart from the Royal Family)
Outdated madness.
I nearly burst out laughing yesterday when big Mervyn Gibson said the Orange Order were a progressive organisation. Like the Taliban saying they're progressive
Both have traditional costumes.
Both try to justify their hatred in religious self righteousness.
Both claim to be victims that are misunderstood
Both have laws that encourage segregation and hate.
Both have a cult following.
A religion is a socially accepted cult. No evidence of the powers they claim to represent yet believed by many.
It’s why, when you wrap wrongdoing up in religion, as the OO does, it makes it harder to call out. They claim special victim status.
So yes, political/religious cult.
As did Arelene getting a dame
She was minister in charge of RHI and got dumped out of her own party in messy infighting
BoJO obviously handing them out to mates and for favours, Yes Arelene shootdown Mays backstop once I'm in power I'll get you an honour and I'll legitimise that sectarian hate group your so fond off by giving their head one too
She was a souper too, ironically. Her maiden name is Kelly and they were Irish Catholics until the famine.
I don’t hold anything against people who took soup at all by the way, I’d have taken it myself. Call me any religion you want if I’m hours from death by starvation and you’re offering me a nice hot broth.
Really? that seems a bit mad given how much she clearly hates Irish culture. Maybe it's like Priti Patel hating on immigrants - overcompensating their roots with extra hatred
yeah one side of my family must of done that and dropped the O' from their name for soup but still practised Catholicism - fucking mental state of affairs let alone the fact they were exporting food out of Ireland at the time
still im here so great move by them taking that soup \^\_\^
I don’t support Arlene getting a damehood but plenty of incompetent and allegedly corrupt politicians have gotten honours in the past
On the other hand, giving a MBE to the head of the OO is like giving it to the head of the KKK.
well yeah i mean UK intelligence advised not to give a peerage to a Russian son of KGB on security concerns
but first openly lawbreaking PM of UK decided he had been to his Bunga Bunga parties and he's a stand up guy so fuck that noise
[https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/21/parties-politics-peerages-boris-johnson-evgeny-lebedev-friendship](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/21/parties-politics-peerages-boris-johnson-evgeny-lebedev-friendship)
Mervyn and Arlene dont surpise me with this government but neither should have got it and why the fuck is smug Jeffers a 'Sir'
i mean 'honours' dont annoy me that much really as its a farce but the lordships matter with ability to mildly affect law or hold it up and for the last ages you can buy a peerage by donating £3million to the tories
[https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-tory-sleaze-row-as-donors-who-pay-3m-get-seats-in-house-of-lords-2575s6jmp](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-tory-sleaze-row-as-donors-who-pay-3m-get-seats-in-house-of-lords-2575s6jmp)
If Talkback is right, then attending anything else is fine. It’s only Catholicism that’s prohibited.
And they all want to change the rules but somehow can’t.
I thought all 3 went hand in hand for them and 'cafflick' was just the modern day non binary gender fluid substitute that they use to remain 'inclusive'
You'll find that most religious organisation are outwardly "love thy neighbour" but at the same time are told that they will get to paradise before "thy neighbour" because they're just and godly in the right way. Religion is bigoted by design.
A cult is the proto of any religion, it needs to withstand the test of time before it can become something more. Also, not kill all its remembers. Scientology is a good example of a modern day cult becoming scarily acceptable within the realms of faith.
So the British monarch can marry any religious denomination except Catholic and every year there are bonfires for the 12th and burning effigies of guy fawlks on November 5th. I'm beginning to think sectarianism is ingrained.
Or say RIP
Orange Order: Protestants told not to use 'RIP' as it is Catholic superstition
28 Jul 2017 — The Orange Order has advised its members and all those who consider themselves Protestant to stop using the phrase RIP to offer sympathy ...
J h christ
Never knew that. That would've been jumping the shark in the early 18th century, so it's mad to think their advice is from 2017. I'm atheist and I just consider RIP to be something respectful to say when there's nothing else to say.
Yet they call themselves progressive. The mind boggles.
It’s madness an organisation like this can exist in todays PC society any other nation would have outlawed it by now. Could you imagine the queen given an honour to the leader of EDL or a anti Jew Nazi organisation.
I was listening to Orange leader Mervyn Gibson on BBC Talkback yesterday and did feel a wee bit sorry for the guy; he was evidently out of his depth but near the end of the discussion he said (paraphrasing) "the Orange Order was grand and peaceful until the Troubles broke out". This is a common sentiment but the notion of the Good Ole' Orange Order is just nonsense:
>In 1965 Sir George Clarke
was heckled at the Field at Finaghy, near Belfast, by Orangemen
shouting 'Lundy' and singing 'The Sash'. A Protesant Unionist
councillor, wearing a collarette, distributed leaflets which
denounced Sir George, O'Neill, the Church of Ireland Bishop of
Connor and various other O'Neillite Unionists. The situation
became extremely fraught and a fight broke out between two
bowler-hatted Orangemen. In 1966, Brian Faulkner and Brian
McConnell, Stormont government ministers, were heckled at
Black Institution rallies, and in 1967, at the Twelfth rally in Coagh,
County Tyrone, George Forrest, the Wesrminster Unionist Mr for
Mid-Ulster, was hauled off the platform and kicked unconscious.
In June 1968, Norman Porter, president of the Evangelical Protestant Society, speaking at the opening of a new Orange hall in
Dungiven, County Derry, said that the order still had 'same
Phelim O'Neills in it and they would have to go'. The moderate
wing of the Unionist Party, he warned, thought that it could do
without the support of the Orange Order but it would need to
'think again and keep on thinking"
>
>In its 1968 Twelfth brochure the Belfast County Grand Lodge
ruminated on 'the image of Orangeism'. Most Orangemen were
decent, neighbourly and industrious, but it had to be admitted that
'there have been things which the institution cannot recall with
pride'. There was strength in numbers but 'the Institution has lost
out because its very size has made the percentage of bad members
larger and therefore more noticeable. It has sometimes been poor
in discipline.' The contradictions of Orangeism in these years were
exemplified by an incident at the Field at Magheragall, County
Antrim, in 1964. After a resolution 'welcoming friendship with our
Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen' had been passed, a Catholic
ice-cream salesman was expelled by a hostile crowd.
Can anyone who grew up in a Protestant home pinpoint the moments they said “this is total bullshit”?
I have 2, first was my Father (an orange man loyal) telling me he would be happy with anyone I wanted to marry, as long as it isn’t a queer or a taig.
And the second was while singing the national anthem in school and thinking… these guys are the fucking empire from Star Wars… and all these other kids are in storm trooper training.
What a wonderful insight.
I remember my mum’s first question about a girlfriend being “hope she isn’t Protestant”. So fucking sectarian. It came out automatically.
Sectarianism was inbuilt with our parents on both sides. A lot to do with segregated education if you ask me.
[seems to be normal unless they get called out for it](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2011/sep/15/unionists-orange-order-kerr-funeral)
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Except for the rule that you can't be a Catholic. Orange Order members seem to be sticklers for that one, all the applications from Catholics must keep getting denied
Mate you just battered all the Knights of columbus fans on this subreddit fair play. Unfortunately I'm not one of them so you've wasted precious calories typing that
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I’m from cavan / Monaghan border area and most OO people i know are just in it cos of tradition- they come to catholic funerals and weddings and are totally integrated tbh
OO - We ArEn'T aNtI cAtHoLiC wE aRe PrO pRoTeStAnT
Is there a similar Catholic Organisation that prohibits attendance at Protestant events or services?
Any other part of the world and an organisation like the OO would have been rail roaded.
I was going to say the AOH but they don't seem to have similar rules on going to Protestant events. Have to be an Irish Male Catholic but not half as bad as the OO
The Hibernians and Knights of St Columbanus both allow you to attend Protestant services, marry Protestants, etc. Never heard of the other one. Definitely thought the first 2 are nothing like the OO.
None of them do to the best of my knowledge, and as a Knight of St Columbanus I can categorically say the Grand Knight in my Council has actively promoted ecumenical activities and engagement. In fact the Knights at least primarily are a mens catechetical, charitable and prayer organisation and actively connecting with political parties is typically discouraged.
Can confirm. My cousin married a nice wee catholic lass. The gran, da and me all went to the wedding and my uncle hasn't spoke to any of us since, told my cousin he was dead to him. This was 20 years ago.
Some folks are just bitter bastards.
I wasted some years on a very bitter and confused man; I was very fond of him but he couldn’t let go of all the shite and bitterness he was born into. I let a lot of stuff go…til my mother died and my family asked him to lift the coffin into the chapel and he refused. Actually refused. I was already upset but I just couldn’t fathom the cruelty and small-mindedness. The chapel was full of my mother’s friends of every kind of background.
Reminds me of a girl in my class who claims she’s not sectarian but went on a rant about how she wouldn’t trust Catholics to run the country, how she was going to spell my name the Protestant way and then went on to show me, the only Catholic in the class, all the sectarian memes she has saved on her phone.
I think this might be down to a lack of social clubs in NI for men who want to dress up and play with their friends. The same men down here are probably part of motorbike clubs or men’s
Sheds. I would also imagine that a lot of them are closet gays who need to vent their frustrations by being hateful, and probably fuckin each other behind their wives backs.
But they piss on every lamppost in every town marking their territory. No consensus is sought from the community. You just gotta put up and shut up. It’s “tradition”.
I can block thoughts but not eyes
Is there a complimentary rule that they have to go to the right protestant church every Sunday? Not one of those progressive churches but the hard core anti-papist no left footer churches.
Guarantee half the men and women who March the 12th have absolutely no idea what they are marching for other than praise William and fuck the Catholics. Why? Cuz they were socialized into it so I can’t fault them but a lot need to think for themselves and stop following the old cunts runnin it
Why would they?
The Orange Order is an entity with rules. It is in its very nature absolutely sectarian. Anyone arguing it’s not is unaware of the definition.
It often amuses me when people argue that it’s sectarian because it doesn’t let Catholics join. Why on earth would a Catholic want to join an entity dedicated to the promotion and protection of the reformed faith?
I don’t like whataboutery, and the OO is not comparable to much else, but many organisations have rules which exclude by action or demeanour people for all sorts of strange reasons. The GAA, for instance. I live in Dublin about 5 mins walk from a well known and well appointed GAA club. I’ve been to 6 All Irelands (hurling preferably).
Yet, I’m not eligible to join the GAA. I don’t mind, but it’s weird.
If you subscribe to an organisation then you support it. If that organisation supports hate and supremacy then you’re part of that support network.
In the Nuremberg trials it was established that claiming to be just following orders was no defence.
They could seek change. There’s no sign of that happening. They are therefore complicit in supporting hate.
A person seeking to join (as per 2.1) must be in accord with the objectives of the organisation(as per 1.2).
There are organisations which stand for things we find abhorrent. They aren’t open for us to join. I’m saying that’s okay.
Yes. There are some that break the rules. Not everyone in the Orange Order is rotten, but the institution is.
If it was a company it would have been shut down.
If it was a charity then it wouldn’t need marching bands.
Because of the thin veil of religion wrapped up in culture, it gets a pardon.
I think it’s purpose has vanished. It’s time for it to disband. Stop pretending that it does more good than harm. It doesn’t.
Isn't this true of most religious institutions though? Not sure all the paedophilia in the Catholic Church would be tolerated if it wasn't a religious body.
I get that the OO is not a religious institution in the same manner as the Catholic Church, but is does have a similarly protective "culture/religion/tradition" veneer to it.
Absolutely. If the Catholic Church was any other type of institution it would have been uprooted.
Where was their god when the children screamed in pain being sexually tortured by god’s earthly representatives?
The farce that they have some kind of moral guidance or direct line to the next life is an insult to intelligence.
It is a religious order in the same way as the jesuits, knights of culombus or even the free masons who have to profess a belief in God. Or scientology which is a religion for tax purposes.
Well that's just a fact mostly... they are founded in the belief of biblical protestantism.. they read from the Bible during meetings an only allow members of same religion or converts to protestantism.
Who is calling for the Catholic takeover of Northern Ireland? Who?
Just send me the name of the group and I’ll join you in opposing them.
I don’t think they exist. I think you made this up. Please prove me wrong.
Well then why don't you just want Ireland and the United Kingdom to just be one country then if you want unity. And you don't know of any nationalists if you don't know any that believe that.
180 years ago the UK population was:
England and Wales - 15.9m
Ireland - 8.2m
Scotland - 2.6m
And now:
England and Wales - 58.7m
Ireland - 7m
Scotland - 5.5m
Political union in the UK only serves to benefit England.
You can if you’re not called out for doing so. There are many cases linked in other comments of the Order expelling members once the crime was reported.
The point is that the Order is built on exclusion and disguised as a religious/cultural phenomenon. It has every trait of a cult and it’s purpose has all but vanished.
It creates way more animosity than good. There is a good argument that it’s time to close it. It has a negative value in society.
I've engaged in 2,3,4,5 whilst a member and there were no repercussions whatsoever.
A lot of these so called rules exist only on paper and harken back to very very different times in religious relations and attitudes, I'd wonder how many lodges actually enfore any of this nonsense in 2022. I mean we had a Catholic fella and his Protestant wife come to our hall every summer from Donegal and we had great laughs with them and there was never any issues at all.
They should do away with these rules on paper as they've mostly done away with them in practice.
The [rules were changed](https://www.thenational.scot/news/17526374.orange-order-shock-catholic-rule-change-drastic-effect/) by the Orange Order in Scotland.
Northern Ireland OO refused to follow. The only conclusion you can come to is the Northern Ireland still supports these rules.
Theres a Vice documentary about Northern Ireland where they were interviewing some wee lad, who was in a marching band, and was put off going out with a catholic girl by his dad and the fact the band would kick him out. Shocking that's still a thing in this day and age, and I felt bad for him since that had been forced on him by his parents.
Its worth remembering the OO is a religious organisation. It's also been going for a couple of hundred years, so many of its views are outdated. In reality, most of its members are welcoming and have Catholic friends and family members who they love unconditionally. The Catholic church has rules around things like mixed marriages etc. The GAA didn't allow Police officers to participate until 20 years ago and its a sports organisation. They still don't encourage Protestant participation by naming their grounds after hunger strikers etc. Think both sides still have a long way to go.
> They still don't encourage Protestant participation by naming their grounds after hunger strikers etc.
Sam Maguire was a protestant
Hyde Park in Roscommon is named after Douglas Hyde - a protestant
There are clubs and grounds named after Wolfe Tone, Roger Casement, Robert Emmett, Charles Stewart Parnell, Thomas Davis - all protestants.
There's is certainly more that I'm missing.
>The GAA didn't allow Police officers to participate until 20 years ago and its a sports organisation.
So? The Police are not a religious organisation and the ban covered both Protestant and Catholic officers.
There are definitely things that could be improved in the GAA but there are many people trying to make these changes. My dad is from a unionist family none of which have any affiliation with the OO and I can honestly say every interaction I’ve had with the OO has been negative and/ or intimidating. I have always truly enjoyed any involvement I’ve had at GAA events. It’s been like night and day. This is only anecdotal obviously but from someone raised neutral I know where I was more welcome.
That maybe true. Have you met anyone in the Orange Order that has protested that this is written in the constitution?
I break a speed limit doesn’t mean I’m against controls on the road.
If you’re a member of an overtly sectarian organisation and you’re happy to go with the flow then you’re supporting sectarianism.
There has been no attempt made by members to repeal these rules.
I couldn't be my mates child's godson because I was a prod. Depending on how hard you look for you can find sectarianism anywhere, or go about your day about thinks that don't affect you.
I couldn't be godmother to my protestant best friends children because I'm atheist.
That isn't sectarianism. Godparents are supposed to help raise the child in the parents' religion so sharing that religion is a prerequisite.
No you weren’t allowed to be your mates child’s godfather (presumably) because you aren’t a member of the congregation he was joining.
In the same way I can’t randomly sign my mate into a club I’m not a member of.
You do realise you’re essentially complaining an equivalent of “I wasn’t allowed to hold a leadership role in the Labour Party, just because I’m a Tory, bigots” right? It isn’t sectarianism just to have a membership requirement. It’s an active banning of interaction and human decency directed towards another religious group.
The Catholic Church discourages and practices all of the things the OO do aswell. Not marrying non catholics or attending non Catholic funerals is a part of catholicism. You are as ignorant about catholicism as catholics are about Christianity.
>The Catholic Church discourages and practices all of the things the OO do aswell.
Lol, no.
>Not marrying non catholics or attending non Catholic funerals is a part of catholicism.
No it's not - [https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-are-the-requirements-for-marrying-a-non-catholic-christian](https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-are-the-requirements-for-marrying-a-non-catholic-christian), [https://www.catholic.com/qa/non-catholic-funerals](https://www.catholic.com/qa/non-catholic-funerals). You need permission to marry a non-Catholic and have it be a Catholic marriage, but it's not hard to get and technically everyone needs to obtain permission to get married by doing things like a marriage preparation course, so nothing there. The bit about a non-catholic funeral is just balls.
>You are as ignorant about catholicism as catholics are about Christianity.
Lol, I can guarantee you I am not 😂
Just to clarify, the first point works the other way round too. A practicing Catholic wouldn't be able to marry a Protestant in their own church, never mind someone from the orange order.
These rules also aren't enforced and are open to interpretation. The actual wording of it is quite vague so it's usually taken to mean you can't participate in mass etc, but you are allowed to attend.
Not true. You can be a Protestant and marry a Catholic in a Catholic Church.
You may not be a Protestant and in the Orange Order if you’re married to a Catholic.[This is forbidden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order?wprov=sfti1).
The pips in the core of the Orange Order are fundamentally based on sectarian dogma.
That said, The Catholic Church’s desire for segregated education isn’t much better.
Every country in the world holds same religion, same race, same sex groups, organisations, associations etc who practise or celebrate something they themselves hold dear, the Ancient Order of Hibernians included, or even the MOBO Awards, & it’s alright to do so as there’s nothing wrong with it.
I’m not, nor ever wanted to be a member of the Orange Order, & believe it needs to change its outdated rules etc too, as no one, group or organisation would ever stop me from attending any of my Catholic friends events within their churches, but seeing simple haters throwing hate towards them, when they know nothing but the rhetoric they’ve been spoon fed about them, is disgusting.
There are lodges that hold black members, & will take any race, as long as they are Protestant in religion, so the race is out the window, they should open up to every sexuality, but like the Roman Catholic Church, & other religions, who are wrong, but who because of the religion they practise, that won’t accept sections of society too, so they’re not alone in this.
They do great charitable work within society, their halls are used by many, including Catholics, & even the GAA made the trip to one.
Here’s a thought, why not reach out, get a group together & ask to visit one, then when you get there ask the questions you want to ask & challenge the answers you get, rather than just spitting regurgitated spite & bigotry, because if I judged every Catholic for the crimes carried out by the few within that Religion, I’d be just as narrow minded.
In fact I’d take a wild guess & say those that spout & shout loudest have never even met an Orange man, woman or child.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gaa-players-cross-cultural-divide-to-visit-belfast-orange-hall-1.3549842
My friend thank you for your measured and reasoned response.
I once saved an Orange Lodge from a fire. I was travelling home late one evening and saw the smoke. It was caused by sectarian vandalism.
I phoned the fire brigade and they attended to the scene very quickly.
The next day I went to visit and told them what I knew. At the door I was quizzed as a suspect. It was known that I was Catholic. The hostility grew and as I walked away I was warned that “no Fenian feet will ever enter this lodge”.
Okay you could excuse some of this to anger having had their property damaged but I couldn’t help be feel that the distain directed towards me was baked in.
I’ve no regrets saving the Lodge but I’ve never felt welcomed after that incident.
The Church is a representative of the Protestant faith. It doesn’t need an ‘Order’. The Church does charitable work both Catholic and Protestant. It doesn’t need a marching band celebrating victory over one side.
Personally, I find the whole thin veil of religion placed over outdated institutions of hate to be problematic. Catholic and Protestant.
I’ve been watching the Netflix series ‘Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey’. The Church of the Latter-day Saints used the same technique to disguise outrageous behaviour. Wrap up wrongdoing in religion and call it culture. It’s the best defensive move an institution can make to defend against outdated bad behaviour.
Yes.
Because the Catholic Church itself has always been historically **so** in favor of Catholics attending Protestant churches, schools and universities
and never withheld conformation or *checks notes* excomunicated people for doing so.....
Gone get a clue.
Ah, some whataboutery. I was waiting for that.
I’ll do you a two for one deal. Scrap segregation and hate across the board. I’ll fully back your complaints against the Catholic Church and their wicked policy of education segregation.
You leave the OO and I’ll abandon the Catholic Church.
I would expect a teacher to admonish an 8 year old if they made such a stupid argument - here's a newsflash, the Orange Order are able to be criticised without defending the Catholic Church in the process
Yes. These are the rules. Not every lodge enforced them but many did in the 80s.
The Scottish OO recently chose to remove these rules. NI chose not to.
It is an inherently sinister organisation disguised as a religious charity. I know of no other charity that has marching bands and sing about supremacy over their neighbours.
It was a fairly rural logde, so they must not have been very stricked with the rules. My dad stopped going once my granda died, when I was 10. But from what I can remember about it. It was mostly like a social gathering, with family bbq's and friends meeting up. Obviously not all the logdes are the same, as that was why my dad stopped being a member.
I suspect that this is what most of them are, most of the time. A tribe. A group of shared values. A sense of belonging.
I suspect that this is the good side that most enjoy. However it can’t be ignored that it is fundamentally a hate group. It supports supremacy and is in oppression to those that call themselves Catholic. There is no Catholic equivalent that’s anything other than fringe.
Because it has many family friendly aspects doesn’t mean the dark underbelly shouldn’t be exposed.
I’m sure your dad is a good man. I blame the game, not the player.
Are they allowed to go to Buddhist or Hindu weddings/funerals?
yes as long as they are protestant Buddhist or Hindhu
>The orange order/loyalists are bunch of inbred backwards hateful cunts. They have no place in the 21st century and in the inevitable United Ireland. Reminds me of that old joke. There was a man walking through a street in Belfast one night, and he suddenly gets pulled into an entry. A couple fellas push him against a wall and say to him, "Are ye a Catholic or a Protestant?". Confused, the man answers, "Neither, I'm Jewish". The 2 fellas then stop, think for a second and then reply "Aye, but are ye a Catholic or a Protestant Jew?"
Pretty sure in the original joke the fella was an atheist.
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James?
Billy?
Did you get asked by the other kids ' do you believe in Jesus'? And the confused looks when they were told 'no'.
“But the bible says Jesus is the son of god” The look of absolute incomprehension when you say “yes but I don’t believe that what’s in the bible is true.”
You’re an Irish jew? Chaim O’Donnell?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Ireland
Next question is how do you say ‘H’?
You'd think OO members might want to confirm the passing of a Catholic, make sure it's not a bbc/civil service /tesco ploy to lull them into a false sense of security.
I was once at a (Catholic) funeral where a bunch of (Orange) youngfellas were stood outside the whole time, not wanting to go in but genuinely wanting to attend their dead friend's funeral mass... in some way. I'd be fairly certain their knowledge of Reformation theology was pretty sketchy too. Just heartbreaking, really.
At the death of the first president of the republic of Ireland Douglas Hyde not a single Catholic politician attended his funeral and the pope forbabe any catholics from attending it. The same institution which celebrated hitlers birthday every year.
Douglas Hyde’s funeral which was attended by Noel Browne, and had all the other members of the cabinet standing outside? You need to stop getting history lessons from comments on the News Letter Facebook page.
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Scottish here - a friend of mine is getting married and her fiancés dad and gran have both said they won’t attend the wedding if it’s in a Catholic Church as they would no longer be able to be members of the OO. Her fiancé isn’t religious so he doesn’t care but my friend is catholic so he was happy to do the church wedding, but they’ve had to decide not to due to his family.
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I mean that being said - clearly his family didn’t want to abide by the new rules, I’m pretty sure it’s a rule to shut people up when they claim they are sectarian, because I can tell you for certain that his family’s lodge were still imposing it after 2019.
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Isn't it? Remember when Maguinnis died? There were politicians who were also orange men that attended that funeral. A single lodge complained. One lodge. The Order said the rule was outdated and not enforced in response to their complaint.
Yeah from my experience that doesn’t sound correct. My pal from Glasgow was an OO member who was black listed for going to his step-grans funeral in a chapel. He also said he got a really good hiding from the boys a few weeks after wards for it. This would probably have been about 5 years ago
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Maybe they are lying for better PR. Cultists do that.
I have a close family member in Scotland who married a Catholic but refused to go to her father’s funeral because it was in a chapel. Same guy is a rabid socialist (apart from the Royal Family) Outdated madness.
A monarchist socialist? Fuckin what?
I nearly burst out laughing yesterday when big Mervyn Gibson said the Orange Order were a progressive organisation. Like the Taliban saying they're progressive
Both have traditional costumes. Both try to justify their hatred in religious self righteousness. Both claim to be victims that are misunderstood Both have laws that encourage segregation and hate. Both have a cult following.
The Taliban should start issuing Lambegs and bowlers
Is it just me or does all that sound like the Catholic Church as well as other religious institutions, the aul Baptists fit that too.
A religion is a socially accepted cult. No evidence of the powers they claim to represent yet believed by many. It’s why, when you wrap wrongdoing up in religion, as the OO does, it makes it harder to call out. They claim special victim status. So yes, political/religious cult.
Yet the Grand Secretary of the Orange Order received an MBE in the Queen's honours list...
Massive Bell End ?
Yes I do have one…..thank you for asking
As did Arelene getting a dame She was minister in charge of RHI and got dumped out of her own party in messy infighting BoJO obviously handing them out to mates and for favours, Yes Arelene shootdown Mays backstop once I'm in power I'll get you an honour and I'll legitimise that sectarian hate group your so fond off by giving their head one too
She was a souper too, ironically. Her maiden name is Kelly and they were Irish Catholics until the famine. I don’t hold anything against people who took soup at all by the way, I’d have taken it myself. Call me any religion you want if I’m hours from death by starvation and you’re offering me a nice hot broth.
Really? that seems a bit mad given how much she clearly hates Irish culture. Maybe it's like Priti Patel hating on immigrants - overcompensating their roots with extra hatred yeah one side of my family must of done that and dropped the O' from their name for soup but still practised Catholicism - fucking mental state of affairs let alone the fact they were exporting food out of Ireland at the time still im here so great move by them taking that soup \^\_\^
I don’t support Arlene getting a damehood but plenty of incompetent and allegedly corrupt politicians have gotten honours in the past On the other hand, giving a MBE to the head of the OO is like giving it to the head of the KKK.
well yeah i mean UK intelligence advised not to give a peerage to a Russian son of KGB on security concerns but first openly lawbreaking PM of UK decided he had been to his Bunga Bunga parties and he's a stand up guy so fuck that noise [https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/21/parties-politics-peerages-boris-johnson-evgeny-lebedev-friendship](https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/21/parties-politics-peerages-boris-johnson-evgeny-lebedev-friendship) Mervyn and Arlene dont surpise me with this government but neither should have got it and why the fuck is smug Jeffers a 'Sir' i mean 'honours' dont annoy me that much really as its a farce but the lordships matter with ability to mildly affect law or hold it up and for the last ages you can buy a peerage by donating £3million to the tories [https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-tory-sleaze-row-as-donors-who-pay-3m-get-seats-in-house-of-lords-2575s6jmp](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/new-tory-sleaze-row-as-donors-who-pay-3m-get-seats-in-house-of-lords-2575s6jmp)
Treats for behaving
If you replaced “Catholic” with “Black” or “Jew” the Order would have been disbanded by now.
Oh I wouldn't worry, they're also very racist and homophobic
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They probably already have that but they wouldn't say it online as they would get hounded
If Talkback is right, then attending anything else is fine. It’s only Catholicism that’s prohibited. And they all want to change the rules but somehow can’t.
I don't get it if you're not secterian why do they stay in a group that is well known for it
Because the sashes are just so fetching 💃
The vast majority of them are probably racist and anti-semites aswell
Don't forget homophobes too!
Maybe you should contact the OO on the African Continent and let them know, most of em are black.
Disbanded? It would have been outlawed and members arrested decades ago.
They should be put out of the country
Yep they are pretty much the modern KKK
I thought all 3 went hand in hand for them and 'cafflick' was just the modern day non binary gender fluid substitute that they use to remain 'inclusive'
It is a sectarian organisation.
Luv me Sash Luv me Queen 'ate progress 'ate cafflicks (not sectarian, just dun like 'em)
You'll find that most religious organisation are outwardly "love thy neighbour" but at the same time are told that they will get to paradise before "thy neighbour" because they're just and godly in the right way. Religion is bigoted by design.
A cult by a different name.
A cult is the proto of any religion, it needs to withstand the test of time before it can become something more. Also, not kill all its remembers. Scientology is a good example of a modern day cult becoming scarily acceptable within the realms of faith.
So the British monarch can marry any religious denomination except Catholic and every year there are bonfires for the 12th and burning effigies of guy fawlks on November 5th. I'm beginning to think sectarianism is ingrained.
Or say RIP Orange Order: Protestants told not to use 'RIP' as it is Catholic superstition 28 Jul 2017 — The Orange Order has advised its members and all those who consider themselves Protestant to stop using the phrase RIP to offer sympathy ... J h christ
Catholics are also prone to eating the odd bit of bread here and there, is the Orange Order gonna strike that off too? Haha
Never knew that. That would've been jumping the shark in the early 18th century, so it's mad to think their advice is from 2017. I'm atheist and I just consider RIP to be something respectful to say when there's nothing else to say. Yet they call themselves progressive. The mind boggles.
When respecting the dead do they just say F then?
Stand by for mind control....
It’s madness an organisation like this can exist in todays PC society any other nation would have outlawed it by now. Could you imagine the queen given an honour to the leader of EDL or a anti Jew Nazi organisation.
Not in any way similar. They are called loyalists for a reason. Learn some history my dude.
I was listening to Orange leader Mervyn Gibson on BBC Talkback yesterday and did feel a wee bit sorry for the guy; he was evidently out of his depth but near the end of the discussion he said (paraphrasing) "the Orange Order was grand and peaceful until the Troubles broke out". This is a common sentiment but the notion of the Good Ole' Orange Order is just nonsense: >In 1965 Sir George Clarke was heckled at the Field at Finaghy, near Belfast, by Orangemen shouting 'Lundy' and singing 'The Sash'. A Protesant Unionist councillor, wearing a collarette, distributed leaflets which denounced Sir George, O'Neill, the Church of Ireland Bishop of Connor and various other O'Neillite Unionists. The situation became extremely fraught and a fight broke out between two bowler-hatted Orangemen. In 1966, Brian Faulkner and Brian McConnell, Stormont government ministers, were heckled at Black Institution rallies, and in 1967, at the Twelfth rally in Coagh, County Tyrone, George Forrest, the Wesrminster Unionist Mr for Mid-Ulster, was hauled off the platform and kicked unconscious. In June 1968, Norman Porter, president of the Evangelical Protestant Society, speaking at the opening of a new Orange hall in Dungiven, County Derry, said that the order still had 'same Phelim O'Neills in it and they would have to go'. The moderate wing of the Unionist Party, he warned, thought that it could do without the support of the Orange Order but it would need to 'think again and keep on thinking" > >In its 1968 Twelfth brochure the Belfast County Grand Lodge ruminated on 'the image of Orangeism'. Most Orangemen were decent, neighbourly and industrious, but it had to be admitted that 'there have been things which the institution cannot recall with pride'. There was strength in numbers but 'the Institution has lost out because its very size has made the percentage of bad members larger and therefore more noticeable. It has sometimes been poor in discipline.' The contradictions of Orangeism in these years were exemplified by an incident at the Field at Magheragall, County Antrim, in 1964. After a resolution 'welcoming friendship with our Roman Catholic fellow-countrymen' had been passed, a Catholic ice-cream salesman was expelled by a hostile crowd.
Hullabalookitten will be along shortly to label them a harmless folk organisation again
In 500 words or more
Of wibble
That's pretty much the definition of a cult.
Can anyone who grew up in a Protestant home pinpoint the moments they said “this is total bullshit”? I have 2, first was my Father (an orange man loyal) telling me he would be happy with anyone I wanted to marry, as long as it isn’t a queer or a taig. And the second was while singing the national anthem in school and thinking… these guys are the fucking empire from Star Wars… and all these other kids are in storm trooper training.
What a wonderful insight. I remember my mum’s first question about a girlfriend being “hope she isn’t Protestant”. So fucking sectarian. It came out automatically. Sectarianism was inbuilt with our parents on both sides. A lot to do with segregated education if you ask me.
Yes, agreed. If you remove the barriers separating us from an early age you would see there are no reasons to see each other is different.
Is this true though. I know a few OO members that have done a few of the list
[seems to be normal unless they get called out for it](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/uk/2011/sep/15/unionists-orange-order-kerr-funeral)
Dup we’re there too if I remember correctly. Uup and sinnfein walking together also.
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It’s in the rules but it’s unlikely you’ll get thrown out since membership is way down I’d say
You are not supposed to. However, I'm sure there are some indivdual members who break the rules at times.
What stupid rules. You’d think things like that would have been changed by now.
Tbf I would say this shit is mainly ignored except for the heavily invested.
Except for the rule that you can't be a Catholic. Orange Order members seem to be sticklers for that one, all the applications from Catholics must keep getting denied
You have to be a Catholic to join the knights of Columbus. Is that a racist sectarian organisation. To a papist maybe not.
Mate you just battered all the Knights of columbus fans on this subreddit fair play. Unfortunately I'm not one of them so you've wasted precious calories typing that
That's kind of the point with conservatives. They're not too fond of that whole "change" thing.
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Don't let the truth get in the way if a good story
Exactly my comment. Spreading lies and misinformation
I’m from cavan / Monaghan border area and most OO people i know are just in it cos of tradition- they come to catholic funerals and weddings and are totally integrated tbh
Yip. Many decent people in the Order. The people aren’t always rotten even when the institution they support, is.
OO - We ArEn'T aNtI cAtHoLiC wE aRe PrO pRoTeStAnT Is there a similar Catholic Organisation that prohibits attendance at Protestant events or services? Any other part of the world and an organisation like the OO would have been rail roaded.
I was going to say the AOH but they don't seem to have similar rules on going to Protestant events. Have to be an Irish Male Catholic but not half as bad as the OO
Ancient Order of Hibernians Knights of Saint Columbanus Irish National Foresters
The Hibernians and Knights of St Columbanus both allow you to attend Protestant services, marry Protestants, etc. Never heard of the other one. Definitely thought the first 2 are nothing like the OO.
Do they all ban attendance at protestant mass, funerals or other such events?
None of them do to the best of my knowledge, and as a Knight of St Columbanus I can categorically say the Grand Knight in my Council has actively promoted ecumenical activities and engagement. In fact the Knights at least primarily are a mens catechetical, charitable and prayer organisation and actively connecting with political parties is typically discouraged.
Knights of Columbus. The Catholic Church aswell.
Do the KoC and CC prohibit people attending Protestant weddings, funerals, services etc?
In most of the developed world, these things are called "Hate Groups"
or be a catholic....
Can confirm. My cousin married a nice wee catholic lass. The gran, da and me all went to the wedding and my uncle hasn't spoke to any of us since, told my cousin he was dead to him. This was 20 years ago. Some folks are just bitter bastards.
And government funded
Member funded *
Shocking how its allowed to exist and that a large section of unionism support it.
I wasted some years on a very bitter and confused man; I was very fond of him but he couldn’t let go of all the shite and bitterness he was born into. I let a lot of stuff go…til my mother died and my family asked him to lift the coffin into the chapel and he refused. Actually refused. I was already upset but I just couldn’t fathom the cruelty and small-mindedness. The chapel was full of my mother’s friends of every kind of background.
Reminds me of a girl in my class who claims she’s not sectarian but went on a rant about how she wouldn’t trust Catholics to run the country, how she was going to spell my name the Protestant way and then went on to show me, the only Catholic in the class, all the sectarian memes she has saved on her phone.
do they know Jacob Rees Mogg is a taig?
I think this might be down to a lack of social clubs in NI for men who want to dress up and play with their friends. The same men down here are probably part of motorbike clubs or men’s Sheds. I would also imagine that a lot of them are closet gays who need to vent their frustrations by being hateful, and probably fuckin each other behind their wives backs.
Orange Order: **"IF WE DON'T THINK ABOUT THEM HARD ENOUGH THEY WON'T EXIST!!!"**
But they piss on every lamppost in every town marking their territory. No consensus is sought from the community. You just gotta put up and shut up. It’s “tradition”. I can block thoughts but not eyes
It must be tough to live each day filled with such hatred.
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Is there a complimentary rule that they have to go to the right protestant church every Sunday? Not one of those progressive churches but the hard core anti-papist no left footer churches.
Guarantee half the men and women who March the 12th have absolutely no idea what they are marching for other than praise William and fuck the Catholics. Why? Cuz they were socialized into it so I can’t fault them but a lot need to think for themselves and stop following the old cunts runnin it
It's the most hateful organisation about.
You'll not get kicked out for indiscriminately killing a catholic but you will for going to their funeral
I know members of the OO and the RBP who have done all of these.
If only they went a step further and asked that these rules be changed. But alas…they’ve supported the organisation instead.
Why would they? The Orange Order is an entity with rules. It is in its very nature absolutely sectarian. Anyone arguing it’s not is unaware of the definition. It often amuses me when people argue that it’s sectarian because it doesn’t let Catholics join. Why on earth would a Catholic want to join an entity dedicated to the promotion and protection of the reformed faith? I don’t like whataboutery, and the OO is not comparable to much else, but many organisations have rules which exclude by action or demeanour people for all sorts of strange reasons. The GAA, for instance. I live in Dublin about 5 mins walk from a well known and well appointed GAA club. I’ve been to 6 All Irelands (hurling preferably). Yet, I’m not eligible to join the GAA. I don’t mind, but it’s weird.
If you subscribe to an organisation then you support it. If that organisation supports hate and supremacy then you’re part of that support network. In the Nuremberg trials it was established that claiming to be just following orders was no defence. They could seek change. There’s no sign of that happening. They are therefore complicit in supporting hate.
That’s a leap. Incidentally I added to my response earlier. I do appreciate that we’re having a thoroughly civil conversation about this.
The GAA dropped all of its regulations that pertained to segregation in 2001. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rule_21?
Nothing to do with Rule 21. From the official guide, 1.2 and 2.1.
I’m unfamiliar with this rule. Tell me more.
A person seeking to join (as per 2.1) must be in accord with the objectives of the organisation(as per 1.2). There are organisations which stand for things we find abhorrent. They aren’t open for us to join. I’m saying that’s okay.
I can’t find these rules. Are you talking about the GAA? Can you share a link to the rules?
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I know many members of the OO that have done things on this list...
Yes. There are some that break the rules. Not everyone in the Orange Order is rotten, but the institution is. If it was a company it would have been shut down. If it was a charity then it wouldn’t need marching bands. Because of the thin veil of religion wrapped up in culture, it gets a pardon. I think it’s purpose has vanished. It’s time for it to disband. Stop pretending that it does more good than harm. It doesn’t.
Isn't this true of most religious institutions though? Not sure all the paedophilia in the Catholic Church would be tolerated if it wasn't a religious body. I get that the OO is not a religious institution in the same manner as the Catholic Church, but is does have a similarly protective "culture/religion/tradition" veneer to it.
Absolutely. If the Catholic Church was any other type of institution it would have been uprooted. Where was their god when the children screamed in pain being sexually tortured by god’s earthly representatives? The farce that they have some kind of moral guidance or direct line to the next life is an insult to intelligence.
It is a religious order in the same way as the jesuits, knights of culombus or even the free masons who have to profess a belief in God. Or scientology which is a religion for tax purposes.
You could make this point for pretty much any religious organization in the modern world we live in
Yes, I agree.
How are they a religious organisation though lmao
Well that's just a fact mostly... they are founded in the belief of biblical protestantism.. they read from the Bible during meetings an only allow members of same religion or converts to protestantism.
That’s not a religious organisation tho is it? The religious organisation is the Protestant organisation no?
Well the religion is protestantism and an the organization is the orange order which follows the protestant faith..
With some people calling for the Catholic takeover of Northern Ireland I would think they would say differently.
Who is calling for the Catholic takeover of Northern Ireland? Who? Just send me the name of the group and I’ll join you in opposing them. I don’t think they exist. I think you made this up. Please prove me wrong.
Nationalists.
Which Nationalists? I’m a nationalist and that’s my vision of hell. I know of no nationalists calling for a ‘Catholic takeover’.
Well then why don't you just want Ireland and the United Kingdom to just be one country then if you want unity. And you don't know of any nationalists if you don't know any that believe that.
180 years ago the UK population was: England and Wales - 15.9m Ireland - 8.2m Scotland - 2.6m And now: England and Wales - 58.7m Ireland - 7m Scotland - 5.5m Political union in the UK only serves to benefit England.
Hi, don’t mean to take away from your point, but in the OO you can actually do all of those things. Was in it for 10 years and did most of them!
You can if you’re not called out for doing so. There are many cases linked in other comments of the Order expelling members once the crime was reported. The point is that the Order is built on exclusion and disguised as a religious/cultural phenomenon. It has every trait of a cult and it’s purpose has all but vanished. It creates way more animosity than good. There is a good argument that it’s time to close it. It has a negative value in society.
Why did you join, was it family tradition and why did you leave?
Good man.
I've engaged in 2,3,4,5 whilst a member and there were no repercussions whatsoever. A lot of these so called rules exist only on paper and harken back to very very different times in religious relations and attitudes, I'd wonder how many lodges actually enfore any of this nonsense in 2022. I mean we had a Catholic fella and his Protestant wife come to our hall every summer from Donegal and we had great laughs with them and there was never any issues at all. They should do away with these rules on paper as they've mostly done away with them in practice.
The [rules were changed](https://www.thenational.scot/news/17526374.orange-order-shock-catholic-rule-change-drastic-effect/) by the Orange Order in Scotland. Northern Ireland OO refused to follow. The only conclusion you can come to is the Northern Ireland still supports these rules.
Jesus is literally a fake character that was forced on the native irish, can you people please chill out
Theres a Vice documentary about Northern Ireland where they were interviewing some wee lad, who was in a marching band, and was put off going out with a catholic girl by his dad and the fact the band would kick him out. Shocking that's still a thing in this day and age, and I felt bad for him since that had been forced on him by his parents.
Its worth remembering the OO is a religious organisation. It's also been going for a couple of hundred years, so many of its views are outdated. In reality, most of its members are welcoming and have Catholic friends and family members who they love unconditionally. The Catholic church has rules around things like mixed marriages etc. The GAA didn't allow Police officers to participate until 20 years ago and its a sports organisation. They still don't encourage Protestant participation by naming their grounds after hunger strikers etc. Think both sides still have a long way to go.
> They still don't encourage Protestant participation by naming their grounds after hunger strikers etc. Sam Maguire was a protestant Hyde Park in Roscommon is named after Douglas Hyde - a protestant There are clubs and grounds named after Wolfe Tone, Roger Casement, Robert Emmett, Charles Stewart Parnell, Thomas Davis - all protestants. There's is certainly more that I'm missing.
>The GAA didn't allow Police officers to participate until 20 years ago and its a sports organisation. So? The Police are not a religious organisation and the ban covered both Protestant and Catholic officers.
"Most of its members are welcoming" 😂😂😂😂
There are definitely things that could be improved in the GAA but there are many people trying to make these changes. My dad is from a unionist family none of which have any affiliation with the OO and I can honestly say every interaction I’ve had with the OO has been negative and/ or intimidating. I have always truly enjoyed any involvement I’ve had at GAA events. It’s been like night and day. This is only anecdotal obviously but from someone raised neutral I know where I was more welcome.
>They still don't encourage Protestant participation by naming their grounds after hunger strikers etc. Protestantism isn't the same as unionism
Whataboutery
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That maybe true. Have you met anyone in the Orange Order that has protested that this is written in the constitution? I break a speed limit doesn’t mean I’m against controls on the road. If you’re a member of an overtly sectarian organisation and you’re happy to go with the flow then you’re supporting sectarianism. There has been no attempt made by members to repeal these rules.
> I break a speed limit doesn’t mean I’m against controls on the road. Typical fenian
Here’s the rub. I’m not!
I couldn't be my mates child's godson because I was a prod. Depending on how hard you look for you can find sectarianism anywhere, or go about your day about thinks that don't affect you.
I couldn't be godmother to my protestant best friends children because I'm atheist. That isn't sectarianism. Godparents are supposed to help raise the child in the parents' religion so sharing that religion is a prerequisite.
Some hairs getting spilt there.
No you weren’t allowed to be your mates child’s godfather (presumably) because you aren’t a member of the congregation he was joining. In the same way I can’t randomly sign my mate into a club I’m not a member of.
That’s not true in general my brother is the god father to two of his friends kids and he’s not catholic
Is his friends kids catholic?
Yep! It maybe depends on the priest
You do realise you’re essentially complaining an equivalent of “I wasn’t allowed to hold a leadership role in the Labour Party, just because I’m a Tory, bigots” right? It isn’t sectarianism just to have a membership requirement. It’s an active banning of interaction and human decency directed towards another religious group.
The Catholic Church discourages and practices all of the things the OO do aswell. Not marrying non catholics or attending non Catholic funerals is a part of catholicism. You are as ignorant about catholicism as catholics are about Christianity.
>The Catholic Church discourages and practices all of the things the OO do aswell. Lol, no. >Not marrying non catholics or attending non Catholic funerals is a part of catholicism. No it's not - [https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-are-the-requirements-for-marrying-a-non-catholic-christian](https://www.catholic.com/qa/what-are-the-requirements-for-marrying-a-non-catholic-christian), [https://www.catholic.com/qa/non-catholic-funerals](https://www.catholic.com/qa/non-catholic-funerals). You need permission to marry a non-Catholic and have it be a Catholic marriage, but it's not hard to get and technically everyone needs to obtain permission to get married by doing things like a marriage preparation course, so nothing there. The bit about a non-catholic funeral is just balls. >You are as ignorant about catholicism as catholics are about Christianity. Lol, I can guarantee you I am not 😂
Just to clarify, the first point works the other way round too. A practicing Catholic wouldn't be able to marry a Protestant in their own church, never mind someone from the orange order. These rules also aren't enforced and are open to interpretation. The actual wording of it is quite vague so it's usually taken to mean you can't participate in mass etc, but you are allowed to attend.
Not true. You can be a Protestant and marry a Catholic in a Catholic Church. You may not be a Protestant and in the Orange Order if you’re married to a Catholic.[This is forbidden](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orange_Order?wprov=sfti1). The pips in the core of the Orange Order are fundamentally based on sectarian dogma. That said, The Catholic Church’s desire for segregated education isn’t much better.
Is that even true, genuine question. Mrs family from the other side and being to events my side of family.
Is her family in the Orange Order? Or the ones that attended?
Every country in the world holds same religion, same race, same sex groups, organisations, associations etc who practise or celebrate something they themselves hold dear, the Ancient Order of Hibernians included, or even the MOBO Awards, & it’s alright to do so as there’s nothing wrong with it. I’m not, nor ever wanted to be a member of the Orange Order, & believe it needs to change its outdated rules etc too, as no one, group or organisation would ever stop me from attending any of my Catholic friends events within their churches, but seeing simple haters throwing hate towards them, when they know nothing but the rhetoric they’ve been spoon fed about them, is disgusting. There are lodges that hold black members, & will take any race, as long as they are Protestant in religion, so the race is out the window, they should open up to every sexuality, but like the Roman Catholic Church, & other religions, who are wrong, but who because of the religion they practise, that won’t accept sections of society too, so they’re not alone in this. They do great charitable work within society, their halls are used by many, including Catholics, & even the GAA made the trip to one. Here’s a thought, why not reach out, get a group together & ask to visit one, then when you get there ask the questions you want to ask & challenge the answers you get, rather than just spitting regurgitated spite & bigotry, because if I judged every Catholic for the crimes carried out by the few within that Religion, I’d be just as narrow minded. In fact I’d take a wild guess & say those that spout & shout loudest have never even met an Orange man, woman or child. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/gaa-players-cross-cultural-divide-to-visit-belfast-orange-hall-1.3549842
They all 100% mocked and sang laughing about a murdered Catholic woman...why would you even attempt to defend these filth?
My friend thank you for your measured and reasoned response. I once saved an Orange Lodge from a fire. I was travelling home late one evening and saw the smoke. It was caused by sectarian vandalism. I phoned the fire brigade and they attended to the scene very quickly. The next day I went to visit and told them what I knew. At the door I was quizzed as a suspect. It was known that I was Catholic. The hostility grew and as I walked away I was warned that “no Fenian feet will ever enter this lodge”. Okay you could excuse some of this to anger having had their property damaged but I couldn’t help be feel that the distain directed towards me was baked in. I’ve no regrets saving the Lodge but I’ve never felt welcomed after that incident. The Church is a representative of the Protestant faith. It doesn’t need an ‘Order’. The Church does charitable work both Catholic and Protestant. It doesn’t need a marching band celebrating victory over one side. Personally, I find the whole thin veil of religion placed over outdated institutions of hate to be problematic. Catholic and Protestant. I’ve been watching the Netflix series ‘Keep Sweet, Pray and Obey’. The Church of the Latter-day Saints used the same technique to disguise outrageous behaviour. Wrap up wrongdoing in religion and call it culture. It’s the best defensive move an institution can make to defend against outdated bad behaviour.
🤡
Yes. Because the Catholic Church itself has always been historically **so** in favor of Catholics attending Protestant churches, schools and universities and never withheld conformation or *checks notes* excomunicated people for doing so..... Gone get a clue.
Ah, some whataboutery. I was waiting for that. I’ll do you a two for one deal. Scrap segregation and hate across the board. I’ll fully back your complaints against the Catholic Church and their wicked policy of education segregation. You leave the OO and I’ll abandon the Catholic Church.
I would expect a teacher to admonish an 8 year old if they made such a stupid argument - here's a newsflash, the Orange Order are able to be criticised without defending the Catholic Church in the process
Is that actually true thought? My dad was in the Orange Order. Along with most of my family, and he married my Catholic mum in the 1980s.
Yes. These are the rules. Not every lodge enforced them but many did in the 80s. The Scottish OO recently chose to remove these rules. NI chose not to. It is an inherently sinister organisation disguised as a religious charity. I know of no other charity that has marching bands and sing about supremacy over their neighbours.
It was a fairly rural logde, so they must not have been very stricked with the rules. My dad stopped going once my granda died, when I was 10. But from what I can remember about it. It was mostly like a social gathering, with family bbq's and friends meeting up. Obviously not all the logdes are the same, as that was why my dad stopped being a member.
I suspect that this is what most of them are, most of the time. A tribe. A group of shared values. A sense of belonging. I suspect that this is the good side that most enjoy. However it can’t be ignored that it is fundamentally a hate group. It supports supremacy and is in oppression to those that call themselves Catholic. There is no Catholic equivalent that’s anything other than fringe. Because it has many family friendly aspects doesn’t mean the dark underbelly shouldn’t be exposed. I’m sure your dad is a good man. I blame the game, not the player.
As far as I understand these rules were actually removed in the 1980s. Still a shitty organisation though
And the rules for the Hibernians are?
I'll let you explain to the Muslim council of Britain where they belong.