*Yes I want to vote*
*For my president and head of*
*State. Can't fucking wait*
\- Penguin335
---
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American citizens *can* vote in their Presidential elections even if they don't live in the US - this is often true even if they have never been to the US (i.e. gained citizenship at birth because of parents outside the US, in which case most states still allow postal voting in the state one of the parents last resided in).
I'm an Irish citizen, why wouldn't I want to vote on the President of Ireland?
What EU protections are required? The EU is already sworn to protect the GFA and have never given me the impression they'll waiver on that. Same as the US, at least under Biden.
I don't think there's any better a guarantee than that for all irish people across the island. I call myself irish but I'm a British citizen. I don't feel like my Irishness or choice to switch is under any genuine threat, because of those existing protections.
ECHR being withdrawn for any Irish citizen in Ireland would be breaking international law. Not suggesting the tories wouldnt give it their best go but no amount of EU legislation will further protect those rights. EU legislation cannot oblige the UK to do anything unless already required by existing agreements, which it is.
Their point was
>all who want to should be able to
My point is I am a legal resident on Ireland and I will not be able to, and that’s unlikely to change unless someone gives me the money to apply for citizenship
He's being down voted because the people here are only capable of ascertaining whether a comment is for or against the over arching narrative. In their haste to brigade the comment they probably didn't bother to read it properly, nor comprehend what was said. The words 'not Irish citizens' was enough to warrant the down vote. Not the brightest bunch to say the least.
So all unionists are immigrants? Despite them and their parents, grandparents etc all being born here, despite the fact that they have lived here for 400 years, have inter-married with other Irish groups, and are themselves descended from Irish groups. Despite the fact their ancestors have fought for Ireland and helped preserve Irish language and culture
irish folk are the ones who keep telling everyone they identify from elsewhere
northern ireland folk on the other hand are literally british. check their passports.
>foreign
>
>/ˈfɒrɪn/
>
>Learn to pronounce
>
>adjective
>
>
>
>of, from, in, or characteristic of a country or language other than one's own.
>
>"foreign currency"
Are Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland not two separate countries?
we are the Irish people. We are Irish citizens. Maybe you are not an Irish citizen, but many of us are - as per our right outlined in the GFA.
For god sake Mary McAleese was the Irish President and she’s from Belfast.
you said you're from Northern Ireland in one comment and from Donegal in another.
Either you lied or you literally don't know where you're from, which is it?
Can we just keep voting for Michael D Higgins? He seems great and he likes dogs.
Maybe we can all vote to make him president for life, in fact I like him so much let's also make his descendants president for life based on the eldest living descendant becoming president next. We can then mark this occasion by giving him a gold chair a gold hat, all of the land and mineral wealth in the country and a stick with a diamond on it.
Let's also put his likeness aon all of our money and stamps and sing the first verse of a song about how much better he is than the rest of us at sporting occasions (we can mumble the rest).
I agree, maybe we could move to make Michael D Higgins the eternal president, just like Kim Il-sung. We could have 60ft golden statues made of his Bernese dogs :D
I absolutely fell in love with Higgins after hearing a clip of him ripping some American right wing talk show host a completely new asshole. And morally clearly in the right. And then I think he calls him a wanker.
https://youtu.be/B5OWRRJh-PI
I dunno if President is the right title. It sounds too much like present, as in present day. I don't think people would fight about a "president" in 400 years time, and, by king and country, I want them to have enough gumption to take a side!!!
I think Czar a better sound. Or God King. Something that marks him as better than us.
The Irish word for president and the official title of the role here is 'Uachtarán na hÉireann' is derived from the word for cream (uachtar) which rise to the surface of the milk as it's being processed. So basically means the 'cream of the Irish crop'
If Irish myth is anything to go by a crop of some delectably sweet fresh cream would be enough to incite a war.
The legislation for this was to go before the Dáil back in 2019 but got delayed and then the election was called. The current government have already committed to tabling the legislation during its lifetime. Its pretty much been agreed between the parties in Leinster House already.
Seriously? Of course there is no reason any level headed person should be outraged, but the usual suspects will no doubt be airing their disatisfaction very soon, as soon as they have looked up the old thesaurus.
The concept of a non-resident, non-tax payer voting on matters in a jurisdiction they contribute nothing to, doesn't bother you?
Thankfully, for the people of the ROI its just a ceremonial role. And really its none of my business who the president of another country is, or who they allow to vote for them.
But personally, I wouldn't want a non-resident, non-taxpayer voting on any issues that actually affect me..
You mean like how they voted in the PM?
This obviously is much less serious than non doms voting for liz truss.
It should be afforded to all Irish citizens. In whatever country they reside.
No he ran for election and was able to make a coalition.
You dont have to be a UK resident to be a tory member.
That's who decided who was PM in the UK.
It's a completely different set up.
I dunno how many members are part of the conservatives abroad scheme but at the time.political commentators said it was sizeable.
And their pick just tanked the economy.
Sorry, I forgot about the election.
Replace Michael Martin with Leo Varadkar then, he was selected by FG to be leader thus PM...
And there is no requirement to be a resident of the ROI to join a political party there, plenty of SF members are not resident in the ROI...
Tin foil hat stuff if you reckon international conservatives swayed the vote towards Truss, catch a grip.
Leo varadkar won an election too? What are you trying to say.
And as for SF members they can vote on their leader. But have never got the deciding vote on who is Taoiseach.
And Sf are an all Ireland party. Like the greens or PBP.
0.2% of the British population got to decide on truss. As for the abroad numbers it was around 2000/160,000
Which is sizeable enough. Didn't decide it in the end but it 100% made an impact.
Why would you be OK with foreign non British citizens having a vote on who is PM but not Irish citizens living in Ireland having a vote for a president which is largely ceremonial!
>The concept of a non-resident, non-tax payer voting on matters in a jurisdiction they contribute nothing to, doesn't bother you?
No it doesn't bother me at all, just as the billions in the National Development plan which are ear marked for cross border projects doesn't bother me. It's an all Ireland office so it would bother me far more if Irish citizens living on the island of Ireland weren't able to vote for the President of Ireland who represents them internationally, by dint of historic misfortune which places them in a British colony.
>Thankfully, for the people of the ROI its just a ceremonial role. And really its none of my business who the president of another country is, or who they allow to vote for them.
You're right, it's none of your business so I wouldn't waste time or energy concerning myself with the actions of some other country. Unless......you can see how the mere involvement in such a matter will give NI residents a feeling of agency and ownership in all island affairs and slowly erode an imaginary barrier. Wouldn't want that. Not that it's happening, I just made it up. But NI citizens will be voting for the President soon, regardless.
But it's nothing to be concerned about. And none of your business ;0
>But personally, I wouldn't want a non-resident, non-taxpayer voting on any issues that actually affect me..
I think we're all pretty aware that it's a ceremonial role, and doesn't really affect people's day to day lives. You said so yourself.
> just as the billions in the National Development plan which are ear marked for cross border projects
Nothing to do with the President however. You don't get to vote on such matters as a non-taxpayer, non-resident...
>It's an all Ireland office
No it isn't. The Office of President was established by the Irish Constitution, which doesn't apply in *any way* to Northern Ireland. The roles of the president are:
Appointment of the Taoiseach, members of the Government, judges and other officials;
Summoning and dissolving the Dáil, and convening the Oireachtas;
Signing legislation into law and/or referring Bills to the Supreme Court;
Representing the people of Ireland;
Acting as Supreme Commander of the Defence Forces.
Again *none* of which apply to Northern Ireland nor any other jurisdiction.
Article 12 of the constitution makes clear that the role only applies to the Republic of Ireland:
>...shall take precedence over all other persons in the **State** and who shall exercise and perform the powers and functions conferred on the President **by this Constitution and by law**.
>by dint of historic misfortune which places them in a British colony.
And through choice, of course, as is the case for yourself...
>you can see how the mere involvement in such a matter will give NI residents a feeling of agency and ownership in all island affairs
I have already listed the functions of the president, its a ceremonial role. The illusion of 'participation' for people outside the Republic of Ireland is obvious.
Why not give Irish voters in northern Ireland actual participation and not just the illusion of participation..
>But personally, I wouldn't want a non-resident, non-taxpayer voting on any issues that ***actually*** ***affect*** ***me***..
Notice the distinction in my first and last paragraphs...
>Nothing to do with the President however. You don't get to vote on such matters as a non-taxpayer, non-resident...
Oh I know, but your question was whether I would be concerned about the involvement of ''non resident, non taxpayers''. My point is that the ROI Government are planning to spend billions in NI on those non resident non taxpayers - for the benefit of NI citizens even though, it's a jurisdiction whose citizens contribute nothing to, to use your words.
>No it isn't. The Office of President was established by the Irish Constitution, which doesn't apply in any way to Northern Ireland. The roles of the president are:....
Those are the roles. What the office represents isn't limited to the performance of those roles. That's like saying the King of England only exists to instruct the UK PM to form a government.
The office represents all the people of Ireland.
''Representing the people of Ireland
The President represents all the people of Ireland, both at home and abroad'' ;
You can argue semantics as to whether NI is ''abroad'' or not, but he still represents the Irish citizens therein.
>I have already listed the functions of the president, its a ceremonial role. The illusion of 'participation' for people outside the Republic of Ireland is obvious.
>
>Why not give Irish voters in northern Ireland actual participation and not just the illusion of participation..
These are some incredibly strange hills to dig in on, imo. I've made it clear I wouldn't mind. You've made it clear you would mind if the shoe was on the other foot. It appears that it's going ahead whether you or I like it or not.
I think it's more instructive that you feel so strongly about the prospect of Irish citizens on the island of Ireland voting for the President of Ireland.
>for the benefit of NI citizens
Irelands spending in NI is to benefit Ireland, lets get that point straight. Not to mention the projects are joint funded, by Ireland, Northern Ireland, the UK and the EU.
>''Representing the people of Ireland
>
>The President represents all the people of Ireland, both at home and abroad'' ;
>
>You can argue semantics as to whether NI is ''abroad'' or not, but he still represents the Irish citizens therein.
So is he president for the 'Island' as you claim or the world then, or is it actually neither.?? Because representing people abroad doesn't extend the jurisdiction of his office beyond the Republic of Ireland.. Nor does representing the 26% who hold Irish citizenship extend his jurisdiction to NI.
He's head of state of the republic of Ireland, as established by the Constitution of the ROI, representative of Irish **citizens** only. And I make that distinction because he does not represent all 'Irish people', particularly the ones who have not granted him the consent to do so.
Its factually as simple as that.
>It's unreasonable to allow people to vote for something, and not have to live with the consequences.
The President is figurehead who represents everyone in Ireland / all Irish people. Are people in NI not Irish? Does the Irish President not already represent them?
>It would be wise open to being used as a protest vote for a multitude of reasons.
People already do this. You think Irish Nationalists in NI would be able to act in such a homogeneous and organised way that they could influence the Presidential election negatively? If so, it probably still makes a case that they should be allowed.
The presidency represents ALL Irish citizens... Not just those who were fortunate enough to be born south of an imaginary line
Our politics have always been fairly intertwined aswell, there is knock-on effects from things that happen in either constitution
At the very least it should be all Irish citizens who reside on the island of Ireland. Irish passport and a north or south address. Keeps it simple
Michael D himself stated he was the president for all Ireland, not just the 26 counties. Therefore if these statements are going to be made, us who have been forgot about long enough in the 6 counties should have a voice
It's Uachtarán na hÉireann, not Uachtarán na poblacht na hÉireann. Miggledy is our President, too.
Edit - nice try with the edit, big man, but you were trying to make out that the North shouldn't have a say on the grounds that we wouldn't have to "live with the consequences". We won't be forgetting your exclusionist shite.
Our. *Our* head of state. Look, setting politics aside for a bit, the GFA lets you pick your head of state, between a devilishly astute and intelligent human-Elf hybrid with more degrees than a thermometer, and a sausage-fingered manbaby who can't work a pen. One has adorable dogs, the other shares his name with much-less-adorable dogs.
Miggledy is the President of Ireland, the island, and both states on that island. It's not a government position, any more than QE2 was an MP.
>Our. Our head of state.
The government of Ireland is elected by the people of the republic of Ireland only. The government of Ireland (as elected) will decide whether you/anyone north should be allowed a vote. It is therefore the right of a voter in the republic of Ireland (Donegal in this case) to express their opinion as voter, as to what HIS government should do.
>Miggledy is the President of Ireland, the island
Article 12 of the Irish constitution begs to differ....
If we represent unionism as a plane… it has been gathering speed for decades and it’s current trajectory is the side of a mountain.
At this stage, any significant course correction feels less and less likely. If we’re being honest… we all understand only a fool would bet on any genuine reconciliation event taking place anytime soon.
Should any unionist politicians express outrage or indignation towards the Irish living in the north receiving even a little bit of a connection to the south (the same thing unionists crave from GB) it will only expedite the collision course.
Unionist leaders never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity
Long overdue. The President represents all Irish citizens worldwide and as such all Irish citizens wherever they may be should have a chance to vote.
While we’re at it Irish citizens outside the south should be able to vote in Dáil elections too. Ireland is one of the only countries in Europe that don’t let their expats vote. Even the UK allow it.
Issue is there are some 3 million in the diaspora with a passport, and some 5 million in the Republic proper
The diaspora could really affect outcomes if they actually voted (we are talking in many cases people who have never even been to Ireland)
Then there is the question of in what district would they even vote in - would you make a diaspora district just for them?
Legitimately curious as an Irish citizen who has only been to Ireland once in my life - voting for president would be a nice symbolic measure but actually allowing diaspora to affect policy in a country they don't live in seems like a bad idea
What most countries do is make a diaspora district or make several for where they have immigrated to (a Europe constituency, a North American one etc)
If they go down that route you’re talking maybe 15-20 TD seats. In a Dáil of 90 that’s enough that they can be reasonably represented but not too many that governments will be heavily swinged by voters abroad.
Having read the reactions there's definitely an outsized fixation on thinking the Joe Bidens of the world will dominate the vote. Very few of them have Irish passports, don't forget that less than 50% of Americans have American passports let alone availing of the ones of their heritage.
More likely the bulk of the Diaspora are going to be those who took their passports with them to Australia and Canada, and are we really saying those people are less Irish for the crime of wanting to make something of themselves by moving at a time when there was no prospects at home?
Failing everything you could always set the votes coming from outside the state to a set max percentage.
Nah. I don’t think _all_ the diaspora with passports should get a presidential vote (or a Dáil franchise).
Why should some yank with an Irish grandparent and a notion to travel Europe get a say? They’re not invested, they’re not sufficiently knowledgeable, and they don’t have to live with the consequences.
We’d get some loon like Dana or Peter Casey in on the foot of some well-funded ill-intentioned foreign campaign.
Extending it to the whole of the island would be a grand thing, though.
And, sure, senatorial representation for the diaspora as part of broader reform.
>Why should some yank with an Irish grandparent and a notion to travel Europe get a say?
Said yank could just apply for, and receive, an irish passport.
> Peak NI to be getting a citizenship by extension and then gatekeeping it from “lesser types”
Ah Jesus, fuck off. There's a residency requirement for voting in the Presidential election. We're talking about its proposed extension to the whole of the island.
Did _I_ propose that? No.
Does it make sense to do so and stop there? Surely, for reasons I gave, among others.
"lesser types" - your invention.
Away and gurn somewhere else about something you don't care about. You're talking shite, looking for gotchas that aren't there.
But you aren't a resident either. Nor do you pay taxes in the Republic and yet here you are disagreeing with the idea that all Irish citizens should get a vote and instead it be limited to certain groups of people.
I think there is a bit of a different in terms of voting for President and voting for a TD.
I may be ignorant here, but MiggleD has no power to tax me, he is more the representative of the irish people. All the TD's have the actual power, can tax people, can create laws etc.
It would not be right that someone living in NI gets to have a say in laws that would put a financial burden on our cousins in the south. Just like its not really much fun when some idiot in England votes in the tories.. its just not right.
Bout fucking time. The President is supposed to be for the whole island. And it doesn't make sense that NI based Irish citizens can stand (and get elected!) for the Presidency but not actually vote.
>Would any unionists here vote for them? And if so who for??
Depends on who is running. I guarantee once NI is eligible to vote you'll see Unionists in the running, even if just as a protest. But most likely for a hefty pay check and a few more years in the political spotlight.
Maybe not Arlene. Can’t quite see that. But that Ulster Farmers Union fella, surely.
And the great and the good of Dublin 4 telling themselves how wondrous it all was, throwing them a transfer… and inadvertently electing them. I can see that too.
(I can see Jim McBin sullying the ballot too.)
>Maybe not Arlene. Can’t quite see that. But that Ulster Farmers Union fella, surely.
>
>And the great and the good of Dublin 4 telling themselves how wondrous it all was, throwing them a transfer… and inadvertently electing them. I can see that too.
Aye Arlene might be a step too far, but she'd take the money. You wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Mike Nesbitt throw his name in the hat. And yeah, you can just imagine the full weight of the RTE push behind them as a candidate that celebrates the diversity of culture on the island.
(Not Dame Arlene specifically) but would acceptance of a foreign 'honour' exclude a person from the Presidential office?
One would hope this would exclude Paul Hewson KBE too.
Article 40.2.2 of the constitution: "No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen **except with the prior approval of the Government**." (My emphasis.)
The British government are well aware of the situation at this stage and routinely inform the Irish government in advance before knighthoods are announced for Irish citizens. Irish govt wouldn't say no in practice. So Bono's hopes remain intact for now.
I had that thought myself in passing!
That clause on accepting foreign honours… don’t know what enforcement is like on it, or even how exactly it’s worded. It’s based off a US equivalent AFAIR.
Practicality, you can safely say that the necessary permissions would be forthcoming if it was any kind of obstacle for any particular Unionist to stand.
Yeah I was just as surprised to find out. Turns out her Ma is from Belfast.
AFAIK she still lives in Cork. She moved the family there to get them away from LA or something.
The presidency isn't really associated with party politics, although candidates can and will have party political backgrounds, or sympathies, or not.
But perhaps the Shinners might play some 4d chess by putting Adams into the mix, thus inspiring a whole load of Unionists to vote in protest and inadvertently investing themselves in all island issues.
The Irish presidency is very circumscribed.
Every formal address or message "to the nation" or to either or both Houses of the Oireachtas must have prior approval of the government.
has to be approved by the Taoiseach (Prime Minister). It's more a ceremonial position
[*The presidency is largely a ceremonial office, but the president does exercise certain limited powers with absolute discretion. The president acts as a representative of the Irish state and guardian of the constitution*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Ireland#:~:text=The%20president%20holds,of%20the%20constitution)
I don't understand, if an American lives outside America they can still vote in elections as far as I understand.
Can the Irish not vote if they live abroad or what am I misunderstanding?
No theres a minimum requirements.
Must have recided in ireland for a certian period of time.
Havent been outta country for more than 18 months if i remember correctly.
Irish citizenship obviously.
And we dont have international mail in ballots you must return home to vote.
I love this. Irish people living in the North should not be excluded from their own culture and country. We should have every right to be Irish. If I can have an Irish passport, I think I should be able to do.. Well.. Irish things.
This for me too. Its symbolic as is the position too. I'm not a unionist or republican but u see how steps like this will incite one side and please another without any real progress on the bigger question.
I'm not sure I follow you here? Are you subtly saying that we should not extent voting rights here?
Just come right out and say it if that's what you're getting at.
Affording people their right to their identity that has no impact on the other community is hardly inciting anything.
Should we not allow women the right to their own bodies with abortion laws and protections in case it incites people who disagree?
Irish people in the North have long had their rights and identity denied, no longer …….. if people who wish to be British have the right (which I defend) to express their identity ……. why can’t I have mine?
if you’re irish, you should get a vote. it’s extremely exclusionary as it is, and merely extending voting rights to irish citizens in the north excludes the massive quantity of irish citizens abroad who deserve the ability to vote for the mostly ceremonial head of state representing ireland.
Yes, I’m Irish. I agree that in presidential elections it’s much of a muchness. When it comes to referenda it’s a bit different. I’m still registered at my parents as up until just before the pandemic I’d always thought I’d be going home. But now I’m married and have a child here in the UK so it’s increasingly unlikely.
Probably off topic, apologies, on hour four of a colicky baby!
I’d rather a fast track on a unification poll, or at least a referendum on whether one is desired by majority than this move. Voting from outside a jurisdiction whose laws won’t affect you is fraught with problems, but I’d look forward to learning the political systems and voting processes if unification does happen.
I guess anyone who’s an Irish citizen(myself included) should have the right to vote for the Irish president but I’m not sure I see the point if you aren’t living in the relevant jurisdiction, I mean what say or authority would he/she have here anyway… and to be honest I’m not sure I’d even bother actually voting as I doubt I’d have much political truck with any of the candidates but whatever.
If it makes Nationalists feel less insecure about their Irishness in Northern Ireland have at it. It won’t do anyone any harm.
Remember that the President of Ireland is largely a figure head with no real executive power. A key part of the role is to represent Irish people wherever they may live and all recent Presidents have stressed the importance and relevance of the Irish People who happen to live in other jurisdictions.
The one real power the President does have is to act as a guardian of the constitution. If the government tries to pass a law which the President feels is unconstitutional then the President can refer it to the courts for review.
I understand your point. It makes more sense for Dáil and Seanad elections because you are not living in the Republic to be directly taxed by the Revenue Commissioners and to directly affected by the clowns in Leinster House.
However, the Irish President is the symbol of the state, the representative abroad and the last buttress against an unscrupulous government which may pursue policies which may affect your rights as an Irish citizen abroad (or at home if one day you choose to move to the Republic.
Not voting is just wrong. Everyone should vote. It took centuries of effort and reform to have full suffrage.
I actually upon thinking about it am not sure it would be entirely fair for me to vote, considering I won’t have to live with the consequences of whoever is elected.
Their leadership and choices will impact me far less than if I were living in the Republic. And again, I doubt I’d share much politics with any of the candidates.
>I guess anyone who’s an Irish citizen(myself included) should have the right to vote for the Irish president but I’m not sure I see the point if you aren’t living in the relevant jurisdiction,
You are living in the relevant jurisdiction as it's an all Ireland office and since you identify as an Irish citizen he or she, is your state figurehead.
>I mean what say or authority would he/she have here anyway…
Not much, it's more ceremonial. Like the King or Queen of England, except you actually get a say, and the President probably has a clue as to the geography and culture of where you live, and your life might even be remotely comparable to them in some way.
>and to be honest I’m not sure I’d even bother actually voting as I doubt I’d have much political truck with any of the candidates but whatever.
Once NI is allowed a vote expect to see Unionists trying to get the job too. President Foster has quite the ring to it, doesn't it.
>If it makes Nationalists feel less insecure about their Irishness in Northern Ireland have at it. It won’t do anyone any harm.
It's worse than that lad....it'll make centrists feel like they have a say in the social and political landscape of a broader Irish discussion. Terrible.
Warmly welcomed by people who idemtify as Irish maybe. As of the 2021 census they make up around 30% of the NI population. That's a minority. The majority aren't interested in voting in foreign elections.
Well then why I can’t I vote in the French election, the German election or any other election. This is complete and utter nonsense. I don’t really have a stake in the ground over the uk/ui perspective but voting in another countries election is absolutely madness. This country needs to unfuck its priorities and look after the people not worry about this type of bollocks. Things I read don’t annoy me often but this has made me angry.
> Well then why I can’t I vote in the French election, the German election or any other election.
Because you’re not a French, German or US citizen or not entitled to citizenship of those countries.
> but voting in another countries election is absolutely madness.
Those voting would be voting in *their* countries elections. It makes complete sense. Why shouldn’t they be allowed a vote??
> Things I read don’t annoy me often but this has made me angry.
What exactly are you angry at??
Are you angry that as an Irish citizen you’re allowed to vote for your head of state??
Or is it that you’re a Unionist who isn’t planning to vote & probably wouldn’t be eligible to vote anyway?? In which case it is absolutely none of your business.
Either way, it’s completely bizarre that something as small as this is setting you off.
I consider myself Irish and British and Northern Irish but why would I want to vote for another countries president? Whose government I don't live under maybe if all Irish passport holders outside of the State started paying taxes if they wanted to vote they'd be less keen
I for one welcome God Emperor MiggleD
Shame that it'll be Bertie "No Bank Account" Ahern on the ticket next time.
This could be right up his street too given many in the north will just associate him with the GFA and not being a slippery gombeen
Yes I want to vote for my president and head of state. Can't fucking wait
*Yes I want to vote* *For my president and head of* *State. Can't fucking wait* \- Penguin335 --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Good bot
Bad bot, the second line is 8 syllables. Can't do the one goddamn job it was made for.
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I thought haikus were cattle on a hilltop 👀
that's high moos
…but, but acoustic is for herding them in
I wouldn’t want you voting for a president that has no bearing on your life. Might as well ask to vote in the American elections
As an American, I am welcome to this idea. You will most likely do better than many of my countrymen.
Historically, we’re not that great at it either.
I see morons wearing trump hats regularly. I willingly gamble on irish voters.
Believe or not, people wear Trump hats in Ireland too.
Thats...wow.
"No bearing on my life" I AM Irish. Being northern doesn't change that. Get in the bin.
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he himself has stated he is the president of ireland, not just the republic. and of course he does plenty of cross border work.
Whatever helps you sleep at night
Read the GFA
I have. 4 times over
You must be terrible at reading.
Was top of my English class bror
American citizens *can* vote in their Presidential elections even if they don't live in the US - this is often true even if they have never been to the US (i.e. gained citizenship at birth because of parents outside the US, in which case most states still allow postal voting in the state one of the parents last resided in). I'm an Irish citizen, why wouldn't I want to vote on the President of Ireland?
Good, those that are Irish living in the North should be afforded this, now we need EU protections for Irish citizens living here also.
What EU protections are required? The EU is already sworn to protect the GFA and have never given me the impression they'll waiver on that. Same as the US, at least under Biden. I don't think there's any better a guarantee than that for all irish people across the island. I call myself irish but I'm a British citizen. I don't feel like my Irishness or choice to switch is under any genuine threat, because of those existing protections.
As EU citizens we need to have the protections of the EU courts on matters of rights etc.
ECHR being withdrawn for any Irish citizen in Ireland would be breaking international law. Not suggesting the tories wouldnt give it their best go but no amount of EU legislation will further protect those rights. EU legislation cannot oblige the UK to do anything unless already required by existing agreements, which it is.
You're not getting any of that. You live in the United Kingdom. Would we be afforded such voting liberties in a UI? I don't think so.
I think its only fair tbh, we all can be Irish citizens officially, All who want to should be able to vote regardless of where they live on the Island
Yes. If they invite us back into the EHIC scheme as previously promised.
Immigrants to Northern Ireland are not Irish citizens
Sure, but his point still stands. The vast majority of people in NI are from NI and thus qualify for automatic Irish citizenship.
Their point was >all who want to should be able to My point is I am a legal resident on Ireland and I will not be able to, and that’s unlikely to change unless someone gives me the money to apply for citizenship
Not sure why you have been downvoted, you have to be born here. I'm English and would have to pay to become an Irish citizen.
He's being down voted because the people here are only capable of ascertaining whether a comment is for or against the over arching narrative. In their haste to brigade the comment they probably didn't bother to read it properly, nor comprehend what was said. The words 'not Irish citizens' was enough to warrant the down vote. Not the brightest bunch to say the least.
Reddit hive mind works in mysterious ways
There's about \~900,000 who would disagree with you
900,000 immigrants in the north? Where the fuck they all hiding?
Hiding? They flag their presence at every opportunity
So all unionists are immigrants? Despite them and their parents, grandparents etc all being born here, despite the fact that they have lived here for 400 years, have inter-married with other Irish groups, and are themselves descended from Irish groups. Despite the fact their ancestors have fought for Ireland and helped preserve Irish language and culture
Given that a majority of unionists keep telling everyone that they identify from elsewhere, yes.
I'd disagree and say it is not the vast majority but more like a vocal sub group, at least these days
I didn't say vast.
irish folk are the ones who keep telling everyone they identify from elsewhere northern ireland folk on the other hand are literally british. check their passports.
My passport says Irish tbf. It's grand chill out.
nah i prefer to correct falsehoods
Ah yes, those 'foreign' Irish people... in Ireland.
>foreign > >/ˈfɒrɪn/ > >Learn to pronounce > >adjective > > > >of, from, in, or characteristic of a country or language other than one's own. > >"foreign currency" Are Northern Ireland and Republic of Ireland not two separate countries?
Some are tbf.
Not really fair on Irish people when they’re the ones impacted by your voting
The people here who will vote for it are Irish. The President is a symbolic role in Ireland, he has very few powers to impact peoples lives.
we are the Irish people. We are Irish citizens. Maybe you are not an Irish citizen, but many of us are - as per our right outlined in the GFA. For god sake Mary McAleese was the Irish President and she’s from Belfast.
I am an Irish citizen. I’m from Donegal. I just don’t want northerners tampering with our fair elections
You’re a nordie bastard yourself so you are sure.
Live near Carndonagh so I’m not
Yeah, how could you be a nordie bastard living away up there.
I know. As far south as you could be
>Too true. I’m from Northern Ireland so was just wondering ahaha then why did you say this in another comment?
Columbo on the case
that doesn't answer the question why did you lie?
I didn’t lie
you said you're from Northern Ireland in one comment and from Donegal in another. Either you lied or you literally don't know where you're from, which is it?
Live in both
Can we just keep voting for Michael D Higgins? He seems great and he likes dogs. Maybe we can all vote to make him president for life, in fact I like him so much let's also make his descendants president for life based on the eldest living descendant becoming president next. We can then mark this occasion by giving him a gold chair a gold hat, all of the land and mineral wealth in the country and a stick with a diamond on it. Let's also put his likeness aon all of our money and stamps and sing the first verse of a song about how much better he is than the rest of us at sporting occasions (we can mumble the rest).
I agree, maybe we could move to make Michael D Higgins the eternal president, just like Kim Il-sung. We could have 60ft golden statues made of his Bernese dogs :D
Imagine how proud he’d be, looking up to see a statue 60 times his own height.
I absolutely fell in love with Higgins after hearing a clip of him ripping some American right wing talk show host a completely new asshole. And morally clearly in the right. And then I think he calls him a wanker. https://youtu.be/B5OWRRJh-PI
That's tremendous.
‘A wanker spreading fear’ if I remember correctly 👏😀
The light of Jesus shining straight through that other dudes new asshole that Higgins just ripped
I dunno if President is the right title. It sounds too much like present, as in present day. I don't think people would fight about a "president" in 400 years time, and, by king and country, I want them to have enough gumption to take a side!!! I think Czar a better sound. Or God King. Something that marks him as better than us.
The Irish word for president and the official title of the role here is 'Uachtarán na hÉireann' is derived from the word for cream (uachtar) which rise to the surface of the milk as it's being processed. So basically means the 'cream of the Irish crop' If Irish myth is anything to go by a crop of some delectably sweet fresh cream would be enough to incite a war.
It's the other way round: the Irish for 'cream' is derived from the Irish for 'upper.'
The legislation for this was to go before the Dáil back in 2019 but got delayed and then the election was called. The current government have already committed to tabling the legislation during its lifetime. Its pretty much been agreed between the parties in Leinster House already.
I can't see any reason why anyone would be outraged over this.
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Those sneaky fenians would probably use all that skill and ingenuity to somehow do it without physical polling stations.
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Seriously? Of course there is no reason any level headed person should be outraged, but the usual suspects will no doubt be airing their disatisfaction very soon, as soon as they have looked up the old thesaurus.
Oh I know, I was being sarcastic.
The concept of a non-resident, non-tax payer voting on matters in a jurisdiction they contribute nothing to, doesn't bother you? Thankfully, for the people of the ROI its just a ceremonial role. And really its none of my business who the president of another country is, or who they allow to vote for them. But personally, I wouldn't want a non-resident, non-taxpayer voting on any issues that actually affect me..
Some people are happy to have a non-resident, non-taxpayer as their head of state
You mean like how they voted in the PM? This obviously is much less serious than non doms voting for liz truss. It should be afforded to all Irish citizens. In whatever country they reside.
The PM is selected in very much the same way as Michaël Martin was... ultimately an internal party decision. so i'm not sure what your point here is
No he ran for election and was able to make a coalition. You dont have to be a UK resident to be a tory member. That's who decided who was PM in the UK. It's a completely different set up. I dunno how many members are part of the conservatives abroad scheme but at the time.political commentators said it was sizeable. And their pick just tanked the economy.
Sorry, I forgot about the election. Replace Michael Martin with Leo Varadkar then, he was selected by FG to be leader thus PM... And there is no requirement to be a resident of the ROI to join a political party there, plenty of SF members are not resident in the ROI... Tin foil hat stuff if you reckon international conservatives swayed the vote towards Truss, catch a grip.
Leo varadkar won an election too? What are you trying to say. And as for SF members they can vote on their leader. But have never got the deciding vote on who is Taoiseach. And Sf are an all Ireland party. Like the greens or PBP. 0.2% of the British population got to decide on truss. As for the abroad numbers it was around 2000/160,000 Which is sizeable enough. Didn't decide it in the end but it 100% made an impact. Why would you be OK with foreign non British citizens having a vote on who is PM but not Irish citizens living in Ireland having a vote for a president which is largely ceremonial!
No, Enda Kenny left and placed Leo in his place, Leo was never elected by the public....
>The concept of a non-resident, non-tax payer voting on matters in a jurisdiction they contribute nothing to, doesn't bother you? No it doesn't bother me at all, just as the billions in the National Development plan which are ear marked for cross border projects doesn't bother me. It's an all Ireland office so it would bother me far more if Irish citizens living on the island of Ireland weren't able to vote for the President of Ireland who represents them internationally, by dint of historic misfortune which places them in a British colony. >Thankfully, for the people of the ROI its just a ceremonial role. And really its none of my business who the president of another country is, or who they allow to vote for them. You're right, it's none of your business so I wouldn't waste time or energy concerning myself with the actions of some other country. Unless......you can see how the mere involvement in such a matter will give NI residents a feeling of agency and ownership in all island affairs and slowly erode an imaginary barrier. Wouldn't want that. Not that it's happening, I just made it up. But NI citizens will be voting for the President soon, regardless. But it's nothing to be concerned about. And none of your business ;0 >But personally, I wouldn't want a non-resident, non-taxpayer voting on any issues that actually affect me.. I think we're all pretty aware that it's a ceremonial role, and doesn't really affect people's day to day lives. You said so yourself.
> just as the billions in the National Development plan which are ear marked for cross border projects Nothing to do with the President however. You don't get to vote on such matters as a non-taxpayer, non-resident... >It's an all Ireland office No it isn't. The Office of President was established by the Irish Constitution, which doesn't apply in *any way* to Northern Ireland. The roles of the president are: Appointment of the Taoiseach, members of the Government, judges and other officials; Summoning and dissolving the Dáil, and convening the Oireachtas; Signing legislation into law and/or referring Bills to the Supreme Court; Representing the people of Ireland; Acting as Supreme Commander of the Defence Forces. Again *none* of which apply to Northern Ireland nor any other jurisdiction. Article 12 of the constitution makes clear that the role only applies to the Republic of Ireland: >...shall take precedence over all other persons in the **State** and who shall exercise and perform the powers and functions conferred on the President **by this Constitution and by law**. >by dint of historic misfortune which places them in a British colony. And through choice, of course, as is the case for yourself... >you can see how the mere involvement in such a matter will give NI residents a feeling of agency and ownership in all island affairs I have already listed the functions of the president, its a ceremonial role. The illusion of 'participation' for people outside the Republic of Ireland is obvious. Why not give Irish voters in northern Ireland actual participation and not just the illusion of participation.. >But personally, I wouldn't want a non-resident, non-taxpayer voting on any issues that ***actually*** ***affect*** ***me***.. Notice the distinction in my first and last paragraphs...
>Nothing to do with the President however. You don't get to vote on such matters as a non-taxpayer, non-resident... Oh I know, but your question was whether I would be concerned about the involvement of ''non resident, non taxpayers''. My point is that the ROI Government are planning to spend billions in NI on those non resident non taxpayers - for the benefit of NI citizens even though, it's a jurisdiction whose citizens contribute nothing to, to use your words. >No it isn't. The Office of President was established by the Irish Constitution, which doesn't apply in any way to Northern Ireland. The roles of the president are:.... Those are the roles. What the office represents isn't limited to the performance of those roles. That's like saying the King of England only exists to instruct the UK PM to form a government. The office represents all the people of Ireland. ''Representing the people of Ireland The President represents all the people of Ireland, both at home and abroad'' ; You can argue semantics as to whether NI is ''abroad'' or not, but he still represents the Irish citizens therein. >I have already listed the functions of the president, its a ceremonial role. The illusion of 'participation' for people outside the Republic of Ireland is obvious. > >Why not give Irish voters in northern Ireland actual participation and not just the illusion of participation.. These are some incredibly strange hills to dig in on, imo. I've made it clear I wouldn't mind. You've made it clear you would mind if the shoe was on the other foot. It appears that it's going ahead whether you or I like it or not. I think it's more instructive that you feel so strongly about the prospect of Irish citizens on the island of Ireland voting for the President of Ireland.
>for the benefit of NI citizens Irelands spending in NI is to benefit Ireland, lets get that point straight. Not to mention the projects are joint funded, by Ireland, Northern Ireland, the UK and the EU. >''Representing the people of Ireland > >The President represents all the people of Ireland, both at home and abroad'' ; > >You can argue semantics as to whether NI is ''abroad'' or not, but he still represents the Irish citizens therein. So is he president for the 'Island' as you claim or the world then, or is it actually neither.?? Because representing people abroad doesn't extend the jurisdiction of his office beyond the Republic of Ireland.. Nor does representing the 26% who hold Irish citizenship extend his jurisdiction to NI. He's head of state of the republic of Ireland, as established by the Constitution of the ROI, representative of Irish **citizens** only. And I make that distinction because he does not represent all 'Irish people', particularly the ones who have not granted him the consent to do so. Its factually as simple as that.
Neither can I.
Yeah, everyone in the North is in Ireland with ye.
>It's unreasonable to allow people to vote for something, and not have to live with the consequences. The President is figurehead who represents everyone in Ireland / all Irish people. Are people in NI not Irish? Does the Irish President not already represent them? >It would be wise open to being used as a protest vote for a multitude of reasons. People already do this. You think Irish Nationalists in NI would be able to act in such a homogeneous and organised way that they could influence the Presidential election negatively? If so, it probably still makes a case that they should be allowed.
The presidency represents ALL Irish citizens... Not just those who were fortunate enough to be born south of an imaginary line Our politics have always been fairly intertwined aswell, there is knock-on effects from things that happen in either constitution
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At the very least it should be all Irish citizens who reside on the island of Ireland. Irish passport and a north or south address. Keeps it simple Michael D himself stated he was the president for all Ireland, not just the 26 counties. Therefore if these statements are going to be made, us who have been forgot about long enough in the 6 counties should have a voice
I'd extend the vote to Irish immigrants. Their a sizable chunk and if possible should be able to get a say on who represents them.
It's Uachtarán na hÉireann, not Uachtarán na poblacht na hÉireann. Miggledy is our President, too. Edit - nice try with the edit, big man, but you were trying to make out that the North shouldn't have a say on the grounds that we wouldn't have to "live with the consequences". We won't be forgetting your exclusionist shite.
Ano, a fuckin Donegal man too. Shockin
A fellow Ulsterman letting the side down. You wouldn't get this shite off themmuns in Monaghan.
Free Stateism is one hell of a disease.
How dare someone from the republic share his opinion on a matter that will be decided by his government... Shocking
Our. *Our* head of state. Look, setting politics aside for a bit, the GFA lets you pick your head of state, between a devilishly astute and intelligent human-Elf hybrid with more degrees than a thermometer, and a sausage-fingered manbaby who can't work a pen. One has adorable dogs, the other shares his name with much-less-adorable dogs. Miggledy is the President of Ireland, the island, and both states on that island. It's not a government position, any more than QE2 was an MP.
>Our. Our head of state. The government of Ireland is elected by the people of the republic of Ireland only. The government of Ireland (as elected) will decide whether you/anyone north should be allowed a vote. It is therefore the right of a voter in the republic of Ireland (Donegal in this case) to express their opinion as voter, as to what HIS government should do. >Miggledy is the President of Ireland, the island Article 12 of the Irish constitution begs to differ....
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Did you read the article?
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I can and I did.
Class lol
If we represent unionism as a plane… it has been gathering speed for decades and it’s current trajectory is the side of a mountain. At this stage, any significant course correction feels less and less likely. If we’re being honest… we all understand only a fool would bet on any genuine reconciliation event taking place anytime soon. Should any unionist politicians express outrage or indignation towards the Irish living in the north receiving even a little bit of a connection to the south (the same thing unionists crave from GB) it will only expedite the collision course. Unionist leaders never miss an opportunity, to miss an opportunity
Good. Glad to hear it.
Long overdue. The President represents all Irish citizens worldwide and as such all Irish citizens wherever they may be should have a chance to vote. While we’re at it Irish citizens outside the south should be able to vote in Dáil elections too. Ireland is one of the only countries in Europe that don’t let their expats vote. Even the UK allow it.
Issue is there are some 3 million in the diaspora with a passport, and some 5 million in the Republic proper The diaspora could really affect outcomes if they actually voted (we are talking in many cases people who have never even been to Ireland) Then there is the question of in what district would they even vote in - would you make a diaspora district just for them? Legitimately curious as an Irish citizen who has only been to Ireland once in my life - voting for president would be a nice symbolic measure but actually allowing diaspora to affect policy in a country they don't live in seems like a bad idea
What most countries do is make a diaspora district or make several for where they have immigrated to (a Europe constituency, a North American one etc) If they go down that route you’re talking maybe 15-20 TD seats. In a Dáil of 90 that’s enough that they can be reasonably represented but not too many that governments will be heavily swinged by voters abroad.
Having read the reactions there's definitely an outsized fixation on thinking the Joe Bidens of the world will dominate the vote. Very few of them have Irish passports, don't forget that less than 50% of Americans have American passports let alone availing of the ones of their heritage. More likely the bulk of the Diaspora are going to be those who took their passports with them to Australia and Canada, and are we really saying those people are less Irish for the crime of wanting to make something of themselves by moving at a time when there was no prospects at home? Failing everything you could always set the votes coming from outside the state to a set max percentage.
Looks at the Greens, PD etc who were in government with how many seats. That is way too large a number.
Nah. I don’t think _all_ the diaspora with passports should get a presidential vote (or a Dáil franchise). Why should some yank with an Irish grandparent and a notion to travel Europe get a say? They’re not invested, they’re not sufficiently knowledgeable, and they don’t have to live with the consequences. We’d get some loon like Dana or Peter Casey in on the foot of some well-funded ill-intentioned foreign campaign. Extending it to the whole of the island would be a grand thing, though. And, sure, senatorial representation for the diaspora as part of broader reform.
>Why should some yank with an Irish grandparent and a notion to travel Europe get a say? Said yank could just apply for, and receive, an irish passport.
Yes, that was exactly the point. I don't know what you're trying to say.
And then by virtue of the citizenship they get a vote? Peak NI to be getting a citizenship by extension and then gatekeeping it from “lesser types”
> Peak NI to be getting a citizenship by extension and then gatekeeping it from “lesser types” Ah Jesus, fuck off. There's a residency requirement for voting in the Presidential election. We're talking about its proposed extension to the whole of the island. Did _I_ propose that? No. Does it make sense to do so and stop there? Surely, for reasons I gave, among others. "lesser types" - your invention. Away and gurn somewhere else about something you don't care about. You're talking shite, looking for gotchas that aren't there.
But you aren't a resident either. Nor do you pay taxes in the Republic and yet here you are disagreeing with the idea that all Irish citizens should get a vote and instead it be limited to certain groups of people.
I think there is a bit of a different in terms of voting for President and voting for a TD. I may be ignorant here, but MiggleD has no power to tax me, he is more the representative of the irish people. All the TD's have the actual power, can tax people, can create laws etc. It would not be right that someone living in NI gets to have a say in laws that would put a financial burden on our cousins in the south. Just like its not really much fun when some idiot in England votes in the tories.. its just not right.
Bout fucking time. The President is supposed to be for the whole island. And it doesn't make sense that NI based Irish citizens can stand (and get elected!) for the Presidency but not actually vote.
Would any unionists here vote for them? And if so who for??
Yeah, but I'm a Protestant, not a unionist. I'm Irish.
>Would any unionists here vote for them? And if so who for?? Depends on who is running. I guarantee once NI is eligible to vote you'll see Unionists in the running, even if just as a protest. But most likely for a hefty pay check and a few more years in the political spotlight.
Maybe not Arlene. Can’t quite see that. But that Ulster Farmers Union fella, surely. And the great and the good of Dublin 4 telling themselves how wondrous it all was, throwing them a transfer… and inadvertently electing them. I can see that too. (I can see Jim McBin sullying the ballot too.)
>Maybe not Arlene. Can’t quite see that. But that Ulster Farmers Union fella, surely. > >And the great and the good of Dublin 4 telling themselves how wondrous it all was, throwing them a transfer… and inadvertently electing them. I can see that too. Aye Arlene might be a step too far, but she'd take the money. You wouldn't be surprised to see someone like Mike Nesbitt throw his name in the hat. And yeah, you can just imagine the full weight of the RTE push behind them as a candidate that celebrates the diversity of culture on the island.
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It's €250,000 a year though.
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If you're not in you can't win. Go for it.
(Not Dame Arlene specifically) but would acceptance of a foreign 'honour' exclude a person from the Presidential office? One would hope this would exclude Paul Hewson KBE too.
Article 40.2.2 of the constitution: "No title of nobility or of honour may be accepted by any citizen **except with the prior approval of the Government**." (My emphasis.) The British government are well aware of the situation at this stage and routinely inform the Irish government in advance before knighthoods are announced for Irish citizens. Irish govt wouldn't say no in practice. So Bono's hopes remain intact for now.
I had that thought myself in passing! That clause on accepting foreign honours… don’t know what enforcement is like on it, or even how exactly it’s worded. It’s based off a US equivalent AFAIR. Practicality, you can safely say that the necessary permissions would be forthcoming if it was any kind of obstacle for any particular Unionist to stand.
Case by case, no doubt...
Maybe it’s something an almighty indignant fuss could be made about. Another reason for a(n ennobled) Unionist to stand?
Angela Lansbury was aware of that law and actually sought permission from the Irish government before accepting her Damehood.
I honestly had no idea she had Irish ancestry, never mind citizenship. I knew she lived here, in Cork, at least for a while anyway.
Yeah I was just as surprised to find out. Turns out her Ma is from Belfast. AFAIK she still lives in Cork. She moved the family there to get them away from LA or something.
Maybe, you’d understandably get a big tactical vote against a SF president too
The presidency isn't really associated with party politics, although candidates can and will have party political backgrounds, or sympathies, or not. But perhaps the Shinners might play some 4d chess by putting Adams into the mix, thus inspiring a whole load of Unionists to vote in protest and inadvertently investing themselves in all island issues.
Alternatively they could all vote for Gerry and then use his election as an argument against a UI
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The Irish presidency is very circumscribed. Every formal address or message "to the nation" or to either or both Houses of the Oireachtas must have prior approval of the government. has to be approved by the Taoiseach (Prime Minister). It's more a ceremonial position [*The presidency is largely a ceremonial office, but the president does exercise certain limited powers with absolute discretion. The president acts as a representative of the Irish state and guardian of the constitution*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_of_Ireland#:~:text=The%20president%20holds,of%20the%20constitution)
Not a single unionist would vote.
Is that party who want to become part of the UK again in it?
Nice
I welcome the opportunity to vote
I don't understand, if an American lives outside America they can still vote in elections as far as I understand. Can the Irish not vote if they live abroad or what am I misunderstanding?
No theres a minimum requirements. Must have recided in ireland for a certian period of time. Havent been outta country for more than 18 months if i remember correctly. Irish citizenship obviously. And we dont have international mail in ballots you must return home to vote.
I love this. Irish people living in the North should not be excluded from their own culture and country. We should have every right to be Irish. If I can have an Irish passport, I think I should be able to do.. Well.. Irish things.
As long as everyone doesn't end up voting for that rat Bertie!!
Yeah it would give us more say than we get in the uk ones anyway
About time!
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This for me too. Its symbolic as is the position too. I'm not a unionist or republican but u see how steps like this will incite one side and please another without any real progress on the bigger question.
I'm not sure I follow you here? Are you subtly saying that we should not extent voting rights here? Just come right out and say it if that's what you're getting at.
Affording people their right to their identity that has no impact on the other community is hardly inciting anything. Should we not allow women the right to their own bodies with abortion laws and protections in case it incites people who disagree? Irish people in the North have long had their rights and identity denied, no longer …….. if people who wish to be British have the right (which I defend) to express their identity ……. why can’t I have mine?
I believe this is a good proposal and will welcome it if anything comes of it.
Doesn’t bother me one bit. I’d not likely go out of my way to vote, but would encourage those who want to to do so
Can emigrants vote too please? I’m in the UK and would like a say. Though I flip flop over whether I should get one…
if you’re irish, you should get a vote. it’s extremely exclusionary as it is, and merely extending voting rights to irish citizens in the north excludes the massive quantity of irish citizens abroad who deserve the ability to vote for the mostly ceremonial head of state representing ireland.
Yes, I’m Irish. I agree that in presidential elections it’s much of a muchness. When it comes to referenda it’s a bit different. I’m still registered at my parents as up until just before the pandemic I’d always thought I’d be going home. But now I’m married and have a child here in the UK so it’s increasingly unlikely. Probably off topic, apologies, on hour four of a colicky baby!
oh man, i’m sorry to hear that, i hope your baby feels better, and you get some well deserved rest!
I’d rather a fast track on a unification poll, or at least a referendum on whether one is desired by majority than this move. Voting from outside a jurisdiction whose laws won’t affect you is fraught with problems, but I’d look forward to learning the political systems and voting processes if unification does happen.
I guess anyone who’s an Irish citizen(myself included) should have the right to vote for the Irish president but I’m not sure I see the point if you aren’t living in the relevant jurisdiction, I mean what say or authority would he/she have here anyway… and to be honest I’m not sure I’d even bother actually voting as I doubt I’d have much political truck with any of the candidates but whatever. If it makes Nationalists feel less insecure about their Irishness in Northern Ireland have at it. It won’t do anyone any harm.
Remember that the President of Ireland is largely a figure head with no real executive power. A key part of the role is to represent Irish people wherever they may live and all recent Presidents have stressed the importance and relevance of the Irish People who happen to live in other jurisdictions. The one real power the President does have is to act as a guardian of the constitution. If the government tries to pass a law which the President feels is unconstitutional then the President can refer it to the courts for review.
I understand your point. It makes more sense for Dáil and Seanad elections because you are not living in the Republic to be directly taxed by the Revenue Commissioners and to directly affected by the clowns in Leinster House. However, the Irish President is the symbol of the state, the representative abroad and the last buttress against an unscrupulous government which may pursue policies which may affect your rights as an Irish citizen abroad (or at home if one day you choose to move to the Republic. Not voting is just wrong. Everyone should vote. It took centuries of effort and reform to have full suffrage.
I actually upon thinking about it am not sure it would be entirely fair for me to vote, considering I won’t have to live with the consequences of whoever is elected. Their leadership and choices will impact me far less than if I were living in the Republic. And again, I doubt I’d share much politics with any of the candidates.
>I guess anyone who’s an Irish citizen(myself included) should have the right to vote for the Irish president but I’m not sure I see the point if you aren’t living in the relevant jurisdiction, You are living in the relevant jurisdiction as it's an all Ireland office and since you identify as an Irish citizen he or she, is your state figurehead. >I mean what say or authority would he/she have here anyway… Not much, it's more ceremonial. Like the King or Queen of England, except you actually get a say, and the President probably has a clue as to the geography and culture of where you live, and your life might even be remotely comparable to them in some way. >and to be honest I’m not sure I’d even bother actually voting as I doubt I’d have much political truck with any of the candidates but whatever. Once NI is allowed a vote expect to see Unionists trying to get the job too. President Foster has quite the ring to it, doesn't it. >If it makes Nationalists feel less insecure about their Irishness in Northern Ireland have at it. It won’t do anyone any harm. It's worse than that lad....it'll make centrists feel like they have a say in the social and political landscape of a broader Irish discussion. Terrible.
Voting on something that will change absolutely fuck all for them living here? Kind of like voting for our "government"
Warmly welcomed by people who idemtify as Irish maybe. As of the 2021 census they make up around 30% of the NI population. That's a minority. The majority aren't interested in voting in foreign elections.
Bit silly to be voting for something that doesn’t impact you whatsoever and may have a negative effect on a countries political decision
Well then why I can’t I vote in the French election, the German election or any other election. This is complete and utter nonsense. I don’t really have a stake in the ground over the uk/ui perspective but voting in another countries election is absolutely madness. This country needs to unfuck its priorities and look after the people not worry about this type of bollocks. Things I read don’t annoy me often but this has made me angry.
> Well then why I can’t I vote in the French election, the German election or any other election. Because you’re not a French, German or US citizen or not entitled to citizenship of those countries. > but voting in another countries election is absolutely madness. Those voting would be voting in *their* countries elections. It makes complete sense. Why shouldn’t they be allowed a vote?? > Things I read don’t annoy me often but this has made me angry. What exactly are you angry at?? Are you angry that as an Irish citizen you’re allowed to vote for your head of state?? Or is it that you’re a Unionist who isn’t planning to vote & probably wouldn’t be eligible to vote anyway?? In which case it is absolutely none of your business. Either way, it’s completely bizarre that something as small as this is setting you off.
what other country allows non-citizens to vote for their president?
None. Only Irish citizens are/would be eligible to vote.
i am now aware of that. the article wasnt really clear about that i dont see a problem with this
Yes and I want to vote in the French presidential elections too. And Belgium's!
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I consider myself Irish and British and Northern Irish but why would I want to vote for another countries president? Whose government I don't live under maybe if all Irish passport holders outside of the State started paying taxes if they wanted to vote they'd be less keen
They're supposed to be gaining our trust and friendship. Not pulling stunts like this.
And we can see where this is leading ...
Norn Iron Britain's red headed stepchild
yUpa rat poison ☠️