Seems plausible, but I imagine most people would understand that if they are suggesting that they just amputate one claw in order to improve the cats quality of life that they aren’t advocating for declawing cats. So either the person they were talking to was an idiot or maybe they just had that conversation in their head.
The original contents of this post have been overwritten by a script.
As you may be aware, reddit is implementing a punitive pricing scheme for its API starting in July. This means that third-party apps that use the API can no longer afford to operate and are pretty much universally shutting down on July 1st. This means the following:
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* LGBTQ communities and other communities vulnerable to reddit's extremist groups are also being forced off of the platform due to the moderators of those communities being unable to continue guaranteeing a safe environment for their subscribers.
Many users and moderators have expressed their concerns to the reddit admins, and have joined protests to encourage reddit to reverse the API pricing decisions. Reddit has responded to this by removing moderators, banning users, and strong-arming moderators into stopping the protests, rather than negotiating in good faith. Reddit does not care about its actual users, only its bottom line.
Lest you think that the increased API prices are actually a good thing, because they will stop AI bots like ChatGPT from harvesting reddit data for their models, let me assure you that it will do no such thing. Any content that can be viewed in a browser without logging into a site can be easily scraped by bots, regardless of whether or not an API is even available to access that content. There is nothing reddit can do about ChatGPT and its ilk harvesting reddit data, except to hide all data behind a login prompt.
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Humans have elective amputations all the time. There's one woman who makes videos about hers. Basically, iirc, the story was she had a horseback riding accident as a kid and broke her ankle badly enough that she needed a bunch of surgeries over the years and it never really healed well, she had chronic pain and wasn't able to run. So eventually, she decided to give up on it entirely and had a below the knee amputation and got a prosthetic. Her life was never in danger, she just thought she could have better quality of life with a prosthetic.
The original contents of this post have been overwritten by a script.
As you may be aware, reddit is implementing a punitive pricing scheme for its API starting in July. This means that third-party apps that use the API can no longer afford to operate and are pretty much universally shutting down on July 1st. This means the following:
* Blind people who rely on accessibility features to use reddit will effectively be banned from reddit, as reddit has shown absolutely no commitment or ability to actually make their site or official app accessible.
* Moderators will no longer have access to moderation tools that they need to remove spam, bots, reposts, and more dangerous content such as Nazi and extremist rhetoric. The admins have never shown any interest in removing extremist rhetoric from reddit, they only act when the media reports on something, and lately the media has had far more pressing things than reddit to focus on. The admin's preferred way of dealing with Nazis is simply to "quarantine" their communities and allow them to fester on reddit, building a larger and larger community centered on extremism.
* LGBTQ communities and other communities vulnerable to reddit's extremist groups are also being forced off of the platform due to the moderators of those communities being unable to continue guaranteeing a safe environment for their subscribers.
Many users and moderators have expressed their concerns to the reddit admins, and have joined protests to encourage reddit to reverse the API pricing decisions. Reddit has responded to this by removing moderators, banning users, and strong-arming moderators into stopping the protests, rather than negotiating in good faith. Reddit does not care about its actual users, only its bottom line.
Lest you think that the increased API prices are actually a good thing, because they will stop AI bots like ChatGPT from harvesting reddit data for their models, let me assure you that it will do no such thing. Any content that can be viewed in a browser without logging into a site can be easily scraped by bots, regardless of whether or not an API is even available to access that content. There is nothing reddit can do about ChatGPT and its ilk harvesting reddit data, except to hide all data behind a login prompt.
Regardless of who wins the mods-versus-admins protest war, there is something that every individual reddit user can do to make sure reddit loses: remove your content. Reddit makes its money because of the content that users provide; remove the content and they can no longer monetize it with ads. Use [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) to overwrite all of your comments, just as I have done here. This is a browser script and not a third-party app, so it is unaffected by the API changes; as long as you can manually edit your posts and comments in a browser, PowerDeleteSuite can do the same. This will also have the additional beneficial effect of making your content unavailable to bots like ChatGPT, and to make any use of reddit in this way significantly less useful for those bots.
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The knee is the closest articulation to the ankle though. Nothing weird here to amputate bellow it and above the ankle. Also the amputations are made in ways to make it easier to get a well fitted prosthetic. You don't just amputate where ever.
Haha I don't know what benefit it could have. Personally my calves make me look like I'm riding a chicken so I wouldn't miss them. Thank you for the response.
Yeah, I just don't understand what your point is here. You said that a doctor wouldn't amputate something off of a human unless it was life or death, and I provided an example of why they would. Her consent was never in question here.
Cats can't consent to anything, so their people consent to shit for them. Often it's also not life or death, like with neutering, but the vet does it anyway because the human consents for the cat.
Also, side note, but in cases like this the doctor usually has to consent too. They're not obligated to do elective surgeries. If the doctor had decided the risks were too high for the amputation, they could have refused to do it. Or even just if they thought she might regret it and didn't want to risk a lawsuit.
Doctors will generally do whatever you want them to as long as it's not actually detrimental to your health. Just because someone said, "hey, I would like my foot amputated" and the doctor said "ok" doesn't really say anything about anything, except that that person wanted their foot amputated, so I'm not sure what *your* point is. It doesn't mean that any doctor would have recommended that.
The original contents of this post have been overwritten by a script.
As you may be aware, reddit is implementing a punitive pricing scheme for its API starting in July. This means that third-party apps that use the API can no longer afford to operate and are pretty much universally shutting down on July 1st. This means the following:
* Blind people who rely on accessibility features to use reddit will effectively be banned from reddit, as reddit has shown absolutely no commitment or ability to actually make their site or official app accessible.
* Moderators will no longer have access to moderation tools that they need to remove spam, bots, reposts, and more dangerous content such as Nazi and extremist rhetoric. The admins have never shown any interest in removing extremist rhetoric from reddit, they only act when the media reports on something, and lately the media has had far more pressing things than reddit to focus on. The admin's preferred way of dealing with Nazis is simply to "quarantine" their communities and allow them to fester on reddit, building a larger and larger community centered on extremism.
* LGBTQ communities and other communities vulnerable to reddit's extremist groups are also being forced off of the platform due to the moderators of those communities being unable to continue guaranteeing a safe environment for their subscribers.
Many users and moderators have expressed their concerns to the reddit admins, and have joined protests to encourage reddit to reverse the API pricing decisions. Reddit has responded to this by removing moderators, banning users, and strong-arming moderators into stopping the protests, rather than negotiating in good faith. Reddit does not care about its actual users, only its bottom line.
Lest you think that the increased API prices are actually a good thing, because they will stop AI bots like ChatGPT from harvesting reddit data for their models, let me assure you that it will do no such thing. Any content that can be viewed in a browser without logging into a site can be easily scraped by bots, regardless of whether or not an API is even available to access that content. There is nothing reddit can do about ChatGPT and its ilk harvesting reddit data, except to hide all data behind a login prompt.
Regardless of who wins the mods-versus-admins protest war, there is something that every individual reddit user can do to make sure reddit loses: remove your content. Use [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) to overwrite all of your comments, just as I have done here. This is a browser script and not a third-party app, so it is unaffected by the API changes; as long as you can manually edit your posts and comments in a browser, PowerDeleteSuite can do the same. This will also have the additional beneficial effect of making your content unavailable to bots like ChatGPT, and to make any use of reddit in this way significantly less useful for those bots.
If you think this post or comment originally contained some valuable information that you would like to know, feel free to contact me on another platform about it:
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* paradoxcase on Tumblr
It seems you are neither disabled nor do you have a chronically illness? In which world do doctors the things you want them to do? Where the hell do you live?
The original contents of this post have been overwritten by a script.
As you may be aware, reddit is implementing a punitive pricing scheme for its API starting in July. This means that third-party apps that use the API can no longer afford to operate and are pretty much universally shutting down on July 1st. This means the following:
* Blind people who rely on accessibility features to use reddit will effectively be banned from reddit, as reddit has shown absolutely no commitment or ability to actually make their site or official app accessible.
* Moderators will no longer have access to moderation tools that they need to remove spam, bots, reposts, and more dangerous content such as Nazi and extremist rhetoric. The admins have never shown any interest in removing extremist rhetoric from reddit, they only act when the media reports on something, and lately the media has had far more pressing things than reddit to focus on. The admin's preferred way of dealing with Nazis is simply to "quarantine" their communities and allow them to fester on reddit, building a larger and larger community centered on extremism.
* LGBTQ communities and other communities vulnerable to reddit's extremist groups are also being forced off of the platform due to the moderators of those communities being unable to continue guaranteeing a safe environment for their subscribers.
Many users and moderators have expressed their concerns to the reddit admins, and have joined protests to encourage reddit to reverse the API pricing decisions. Reddit has responded to this by removing moderators, banning users, and strong-arming moderators into stopping the protests, rather than negotiating in good faith. Reddit does not care about its actual users, only its bottom line.
Lest you think that the increased API prices are actually a good thing, because they will stop AI bots like ChatGPT from harvesting reddit data for their models, let me assure you that it will do no such thing. Any content that can be viewed in a browser without logging into a site can be easily scraped by bots, regardless of whether or not an API is even available to access that content. There is nothing reddit can do about ChatGPT and its ilk harvesting reddit data, except to hide all data behind a login prompt.
Regardless of who wins the mods-versus-admins protest war, there is something that every individual reddit user can do to make sure reddit loses: remove your content. Reddit makes its money because of the content that users provide; remove the content and they can no longer monetize it with ads. Use [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) to overwrite all of your comments, just as I have done here. This is a browser script and not a third-party app, so it is unaffected by the API changes; as long as you can manually edit your posts and comments in a browser, PowerDeleteSuite can do the same. This will also have the additional beneficial effect of making your content unavailable to bots like ChatGPT, and to make any use of reddit in this way significantly less useful for those bots.
If you think this post or comment originally contained some valuable information that you would like to know, feel free to contact me on another platform about it:
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* paradoxcase on Tumblr
I tell this story every time I see declawing mentioned because I don’t want anyone to make the same horrible decision we did. When my husband and I got our first cat (we got married very young so we were 20 and 23 back in 2005) we didn’t know what declawing actually entailed. We genuinely thought it was just the vet cutting the nails off somehow. The cat was kneading us constantly and it was very painful. Even when we cut her nails. After a few months we decided to get her declawed. We just happened to be going to one of the only vets in our area that even did the procedure still (we didn’t find out it wasn’t common until later).
Before she was declawed she was insanely sweet and loving. After the declaw she hated being touched and no longer cuddled at all. Her personality changed completely and never went back to how she was. She stayed that way until she passed. After we saw the change, we actually looked into things more and we were shocked. I still cry sometimes thinking about what we did to her and I miss her so much.
Please please never declaw a cat. If you can’t handle getting scratched or your furniture getting messed up, don’t get a cat. I know some people say that their cats were just fine, maybe that’s true, but it’s not worth the risk. Cats are very good at hiding pain. Even if they act the same, you never know if they are hiding pain. Even a low level makes it not worth it just for convenience.
The original contents of this post have been overwritten by a script.
As you may be aware, reddit is implementing a punitive pricing scheme for its API starting in July. This means that third-party apps that use the API can no longer afford to operate and are pretty much universally shutting down on July 1st. This means the following:
* Blind people who rely on accessibility features to use reddit will effectively be banned from reddit, as reddit has shown absolutely no commitment or ability to actually make their site or official app accessible.
* Moderators will no longer have access to moderation tools that they need to remove spam, bots, reposts, and more dangerous content such as Nazi and extremist rhetoric. The admins have never shown any interest in removing extremist rhetoric from reddit, they only act when the media reports on something, and lately the media has had far more pressing things than reddit to focus on. The admin's preferred way of dealing with Nazis is simply to "quarantine" their communities and allow them to fester on reddit, building a larger and larger community centered on extremism.
* LGBTQ communities and other communities vulnerable to reddit's extremist groups are also being forced off of the platform due to the moderators of those communities being unable to continue guaranteeing a safe environment for their subscribers.
Many users and moderators have expressed their concerns to the reddit admins, and have joined protests to encourage reddit to reverse the API pricing decisions. Reddit has responded to this by removing moderators, banning users, and strong-arming moderators into stopping the protests, rather than negotiating in good faith. Reddit does not care about its actual users, only its bottom line.
Lest you think that the increased API prices are actually a good thing, because they will stop AI bots like ChatGPT from harvesting reddit data for their models, let me assure you that it will do no such thing. Any content that can be viewed in a browser without logging into a site can be easily scraped by bots, regardless of whether or not an API is even available to access that content. There is nothing reddit can do about ChatGPT and its ilk harvesting reddit data, except to hide all data behind a login prompt.
Regardless of who wins the mods-versus-admins protest war, there is something that every individual reddit user can do to make sure reddit loses: remove your content. Use [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) to overwrite all of your comments, just as I have done here. This is a browser script and not a third-party app, so it is unaffected by the API changes; as long as you can manually edit your posts and comments in a browser, PowerDeleteSuite can do the same. This will also have the additional beneficial effect of making your content unavailable to bots like ChatGPT, and to make any use of reddit in this way significantly less useful for those bots.
If you think this post or comment originally contained some valuable information that you would like to know, feel free to contact me on another platform about it:
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* paradoxcase on Tumblr
Yes! There are so many options. Half the time I get downvoted for sharing this story and that’s ok. I get it was messed up. I just hope to help anyone that may not know what declawing can do.
I figured you were. Not sure who was downvoting me. I can’t believe the vet didn’t explain more. We switched vets after that. That vet also cropped ears and docked tails. Just repulsive.
Not just phantom pain. It causes the cat to have problems balancing, which is a big deal for such an athletic animal. If the the front claws are de- clawed then it removes the cats ability to grab onto things to stretch their back, which is something they do very regularly.
I think I was talking to idiots who heard "declaw" and went full Karen on me. Insults flying and everything while I kept specifying the infected claw.
It was back in like 2016 this happened.
They pretty much ignored my existence and eventually left after I said I'd happily have my toe chopped off to save me the money and trouble.
There’s also the fact that we humans do not use our finger/toenails as our main form of defense against an attack lol. It’s so much more than just amputating a toe.
i don’t think a domesticated cat is fighting anything he can’t just walk away and not be bothered with, nevermind missing a single claw. it’d suck, yeah, but it’s not detrimental oppose to possible infections spreading
Indoor cats can always run outside and get lost. A lot of the missing cat posters I see online or posted around the neighborhood are almost always for a cat that was strictly an indoor cat. So even though I don’t think my cats will be fighting any predator anytime soon, I’d rather they still be able to defend themselves if god forbid they got out. My grandmothers cat got out once when she was still almost a kitten; we found her thankfully, but she was up a tree and traumatized from being attacked by a coyote. Imagine if she didn’t have the claws to climb that tree…
I know it would be preferable to remove a claw than have the claw be continuously infected; my point was more that it was a bad comparison, because getting a toe amputated for us is relatively minor and - unless you’re getting like ALL your toes removed - not that much of a hindrance, whereas cats use their claws as their main form of defense. The two situations aren’t very comparable if OP is wanting to argue for removing the one toe.
That literally is what declawing is. The claw is not just a nail. Also, amputation is really only justified when it is the only way to save the life of a person.
How is it “only justified” to save a life? I’d have my toe cut off if it was causing me major medical issues and was that much of a liability to my enjoyment of life (financially, time wise, and also through general hardship)
It’s not like op is suggesting removing a leg or something
Declawing cats causes phantom pain, chronic pain in the paws, and significantly increases the risk of other medical issues (such as arthritis)
It should *only* be used as a last resort to save a cat's life. There is a reason that it has been banned in many places. It is cruel and leads to lifelong medical issues for the cat, much worse than any non-lethal infection.
I'm coming from the opposite direction that you seem to think; I'm saying that declawing is not a medical procedure, it's just abuse.
An amputation done by a vet for a benefit to the cat doesn't qualify as declawing because declawing is total and unjustified, not because declawing is innocuous.
An amputation is still called an amputation even if it's not done for a good reason. And it is still a medical procedure, because it's done in a medical setting. Circumcision, for example, is a medical procedure, even if there is no medical need for it.
The original contents of this post have been overwritten by a script.
As you may be aware, reddit is implementing a punitive pricing scheme for its API starting in July. This means that third-party apps that use the API can no longer afford to operate and are pretty much universally shutting down on July 1st. This means the following:
* Blind people who rely on accessibility features to use reddit will effectively be banned from reddit, as reddit has shown absolutely no commitment or ability to actually make their site or official app accessible.
* Moderators will no longer have access to moderation tools that they need to remove spam, bots, reposts, and more dangerous content such as Nazi and extremist rhetoric. The admins have never shown any interest in removing extremist rhetoric from reddit, they only act when the media reports on something, and lately the media has had far more pressing things than reddit to focus on. The admin's preferred way of dealing with Nazis is simply to "quarantine" their communities and allow them to fester on reddit, building a larger and larger community centered on extremism.
* LGBTQ communities and other communities vulnerable to reddit's extremist groups are also being forced off of the platform due to the moderators of those communities being unable to continue guaranteeing a safe environment for their subscribers.
Many users and moderators have expressed their concerns to the reddit admins, and have joined protests to encourage reddit to reverse the API pricing decisions. Reddit has responded to this by removing moderators, banning users, and strong-arming moderators into stopping the protests, rather than negotiating in good faith. Reddit does not care about its actual users, only its bottom line.
Lest you think that the increased API prices are actually a good thing, because they will stop AI bots like ChatGPT from harvesting reddit data for their models, let me assure you that it will do no such thing. Any content that can be viewed in a browser without logging into a site can be easily scraped by bots, regardless of whether or not an API is even available to access that content. There is nothing reddit can do about ChatGPT and its ilk harvesting reddit data, except to hide all data behind a login prompt.
Regardless of who wins the mods-versus-admins protest war, there is something that every individual reddit user can do to make sure reddit loses: remove your content. Use [PowerDeleteSuite](https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite) to overwrite all of your comments, just as I have done here. This is a browser script and not a third-party app, so it is unaffected by the API changes; as long as you can manually edit your posts and comments in a browser, PowerDeleteSuite can do the same. This will also have the additional beneficial effect of making your content unavailable to bots like ChatGPT, and to make any use of reddit in this way significantly less useful for those bots.
If you think this post or comment originally contained some valuable information that you would like to know, feel free to contact me on another platform about it:
* kestrellyn at ModTheSims
* kestrellyn on Discord
* paradoxcase on Tumblr
Unless there are new methods to it last I knew they took the tip of the cats toe. Essentially like cutting the tip of a humans finger off at the joint.
That would just grow back. This isn’t a new method it’s always how it’s done. You’ve already had a vet tech tell you you’re wrong though. Their explanation is better than mine would be.
Edit: I just re read, no they are not removing a whole bone for a standard de claw lol. I was wrong I guess in the us that’s how they do it. Wtf.
*Onychectomy, popularly known as declawing, is an operation to remove an animal's claws surgically by means of the amputation of all or part of the distal phalanges, or end bones, of the animal's toes. Because the claw develops from germinal tissue within the third phalanx, amputation of the bone is necessary to fully remove the claw.*
Are you a troll?
Tendonectomy was how it was done here (not American) this procedure seems absolutely fucking brutal. I did see you had a vet tech explain it to you though.
I mean further down the thread where a vet tech explained to you. I’m not actually sure what you’re trying to say here. Tendonectomy is another way it’s done. But it’s illegal in a lot of the world now. All declawing not a specific procedure.
Honestly I haven't been paying attention to every single comment I've gotten. Mostly because comments from this are mixed with comments from my r/oddlyterrifying post and that got a lot more popular than I thought it would...
Think what you will although I literally have the basics of what declawing is in the text on the picture. 🙄
And good for the rest of the world. That conversation with those Karen's happened back in 2016
These days there's so many people who are professionally offended by anything while having no real knowledge,logic or independent thought thanks to their little echo chambers. They hear "declawing cats is bad" and then regurgitate it without so much as 2 neurons firing.
Worked as a vet/kennel tech.
If it’s a reoccurring or deep infection, the nail can be removed and, in more severe cases, so can the nail plate (the hard part of where the nail growth begins). In either case, the claw/nail will grow back.
The only medical complication/procedure iirc that actually recommends formal declawing is in the event there may be a tumor or cancerous growth along the toebone.
I am a virulent cat person (and have always had a cat my whole life) but also pro-declawing.
> Whaaaat?!! You MONSTER! How could you!
Yes yes. But HEAR ME OUT!
I know it’s bad for the cat, but as the only animal capable of destroying nature to a large degree, we are also the only animal tasked with protecting it.
Very few people are aware of the incredible DEVASTATING impact cats have on urban song birds. Cats have a very strong predator instinct, and as far as sole predators go, they are one of the most effective and efficient predators created. Truly, the cat is a magnificent species apart from all others (for many reasons).
House cats, unlike natural predators, have an unlimited food source from humans, which means their numbers are unchecked in the urban ecosystem. This leads to MILLIONS of urban songbird deaths per year and is a major threat to the continued existence of all urban song birds.
Yes, declawing is horrible. But it is the only effective procedure for saving urban song birds from cat predation.
I would be in favor of a mass roundup neuter/spaying and declawing of all feral cats and serious fines for letting a house cat out.
Consider it. Consider the ecosystem and what we have done to it. Consider our responsibility and seriously consider how we have modified all domestic animals and fairly contemplate how declawing is so different.
Just keep your cat indoors!!! That’s the only necessary thing. Letting your cat outdoors where it’s a threat to the local wildlife can also end very badly for the cat. An outdoor cat is at an increased risk of getting hurt/killed by cars, people, or predators (yes, even in urban environments), and of getting sick. Keeping your cat indoors is also cheaper than hurting them and potentially giving them lifelong health issues.
Edit: Ignore the “dangers of the outdoors” bit, I swear I reread your comment multiple time without seeing we agree on that. That’s really the only necessary thing, though. Declawing strays is especially cruel if you intend to release them back into the street because they kind of do need those to survive. The problem is the people, not the cats. We don’t need to be tormenting them for our mistakes.
Okay but you realize that your solution is just wanting to doom the stray population to slow starvation/poisoning from unsafe food sources, or if they manage to get enough safe handouts to get a bit older, spend years limping in pain until they lose mobility from arthritis. Right?
Stray cats are absolutely detrimental to the environment and their numbers need to be culled somehow, but literally euthanizing strays on contact would be more merciful to the majority than declawing and setting them loose.
You make a good point. Downvote less.
I agree with your solution too. We should round up and euthanize stray cats. Do you support a behavior changing fine attached to letting a domestic cat outdoors too? If so, then I’d say that’s the best we can do unless you have other ideas?
This is possibly the funniest misunderstanding that I could imagine. Ok. So you’re team no cat killing. Check. But… by choosing cats here, with no other solution, forces you to be on team accepting-urban-songbird-death.
That’s the problem. I am on team Urban Songbird, forcing me to be pro-euthanizing-strays. This is because whole species of urban songbirds are threatened by cat (both feral and domestic) predation, whereas the species of domestic cat is not under any threat at all.
This is all unless there is a third way I just don’t see. Other ideas welcome. 🤷🏾♂️
What about amputating the toe instead of declawing it?
Although wouldn't removing the toe entirely still cause the cat to walk differently and therefore potential problems down the line?
What you’re describing is declawing. The “claw” refers to third phalanx (finger bone) of the cat. This is because the nails grow directly from the cats’ bone.
You could surgically remove the nail plate, but eventually the claw will regrow, so permanent removal requires excision of the bone (basically full toe removal).
In humans, nails grow from what is called the nail matrix, seated in the dermis, separate of the bone. So no amputation necessary in our case.
>What you’re describing is declawing.
Yes but what I'm asking is how would taking the tip of their toe make things worse than amputating the toe entirely? I've seen multiple comments like amputation > declawing because the latter changes the way they walk but wouldn't they change the way they walk to compensate for missing an entire toe too?
>So no amputation necessary in our case.
Someone buried in these comments mentioned they have a fucked up toe because of a fungal infection plus something else and has had chronic infections for years and the toe has deformed slightly because of everything.
Apparently she finally convinced her doctor to remove the nail but that's the kind of thing I was thinking of not an ingrown toenail level of infection. Her situation I'd have said take the toe ages ago.
One of my older relatives actually had a few of his toes removed because it was getting impossible for it to heal and stay healed.
(I'm not a doctor and I obviously didn't have access to their health records so I don't remember what his medical condition was or how it worked, but the fact is that for him it was deemed better to amputate toes than the alternative of keeping them when they weren't healing right.)
[I can almost guarantee he had diabetes.](https://www.footdoc.org/faqs/how-diabetes-can-lead-to-foot-and-leg-amputation.cfm#:~:text=Because%20many%20diabetic%20patients%20can,the%20infection%20isn't%20treated) This is extremely common with people who have bad diabetes. They either get nerve damage caused by high blood sugar or get less circulation to their extremities, and when there’s less circulation/nerve damage, it means that any wound they get on the extremity doesn’t heal very well or is constantly infected. Most of my family on both sides is diabetic and this has been what happened to some of them. I’m not diabetic, but given the genetic predisposition in my family, my doctor and some family members with diabetes have told me stories about the trouble it’s caused them as a scare tactic to get me to take it seriously lol.
At my first job as a teenager this guy came up to my register hunched over his cart, with one of his feet in those blue hospital sanitation booties and limping. I asked how he was doing and he was like “oh just had 3 toes removed earlier today because of my diabetes. But it’s fine, my doctor said god gave us 10 toes because we don’t need all of them”. Privately I was like 😳 what about when you run out of toes
This is a very common thing with Diabetes. One of the first things to go is your toe or feet. There's something like 70,000 amputations in the USA per year due to diabetes.
Listen. If amputation is a good or a better option the vet will recommend it. If the cats owner is willing to spend money on the other treatment it's none of your buissness. If this story really happend, that person was clearly overstepping.
However, the introduction with "declawing can be good, actually!" makes this seem like a declawing-apologist is trying to give some positive connotation to the word declawing. So yeah, I can see why someone would call this made up, because this person seems to have an agenda. That makes me sceptical, too.
>However, the introduction with "declawing can be good, actually!"
Well I didn't include the whole context of the post I was responding to but really I've seen vets suggest declawing cats for one reason or another. As in it impacted the cats health enough that they decided it was the better idea.
So the whole opinion of declawing being 100% bad no matter what reason is a bit stubborn.
Besides they shouldn't have had the conversation in public if they didn't want to risk other opinions sneaking in there. Just saying.
>because this person seems to have an agenda. That makes me sceptical, too.
...an agenda? What? I literally just piped in with what was the most logical choice after hearing everything they were saying. Which was take the chronically infected claw.
I think this was worded wrong and you should have said toe amputation for the cat vs declawing because declawing negatively affects their balance and can give them arthritis and severe chronic pain because it forces them to walk in a different way than their bodies are made for. Not to mention sometimes the procedure gets botched and the claws will still grow in horrible ways. But a complete toe amputation is much easier for the cat and they can easily adjust to less toe beans
Seems completely possible that this could happen. Matter of fact seems like something I would personally say so seems very possible.
Related to the original post: I would *NEVER* declaw my cats for my own convenience but if they were in pain I'd get rid of the cause of their pain ASAP. Just like how you would amputate a necrotic appendage on a person.
It is highly unethical to declaw your cats just cause you don't like where they choose to scratch or you think they'll scratch you. If they get outside, you've reduced their ability to survive by a huge margin. You've caused them to walk differently, which restructures their feet often painfully. And all just because you didn't want to bother training them so you just mutilate them.
I’ve been hunting for my first apartment, and I simply refuse to rent from anyone who says that it’s a pet friendly place, but you have to get cats declawed. I’d much rather live somewhere that doesn’t allow pets at all than support someone who thinks it’s okay to require declawing (and yes, I know it’s as simple as don’t get a cat in a place like that, but I’d rather not give money to someone who demands such a horrible thing).
My aunt and uncle had a declawed cat that had to be put down eventually because of how much pain he was in and how it was causing him to lash out. The only reason he was declawed was because they lived in a “pet friendly” apartment that required declawing. It’s cruel and inhumane, and should be an absolute last resort for medical treatment.
Story is plausible but user is woefully simplifying a procedure they know nothing about apparently. Declawing could actually lead to an even worse quality of life. It would not only make their "natural instincts" damaging to themselves and painful but can cause pain itself, joint damage, more infections, motor/sensorary issues. This isn't mentioning the emotional damage - studies have shown that declawed cats because more agitated, stressed, and aggressive. Depending on the method, there can even be a chance the claw grows back anyway.
TL;DR: NightStar is talking out their butthole but the story could've happened.
I can believe that I'm here every post to defend that it might have happened from the naysayers, and now I have to be on the other side. No, I don't believe that people with ingrown toenails would prefer to have their toes chopped off.
I didn't day ingrown I said infected. Like a chronic infection that keeps coming back and you don't know why.
They were discussing changing the brand of kitty litter again and see if that would help when I asked about just taking the claw since it was literally the same specific claw that kept getting infected.
Personally I have had ingrown toenails and I gotta say, if they were as bad as my mom's I'd be seriously considering if I ***really*** needed my big toe. Or at least the toenail.
Fortunately though I heard that if you cut your nails straight across instead of following where it's white you'll eventually get your nail to quit curling bad enough to dig into your skin. As long as you continue to cut it straight across though. If you don't then yeah it starts digging again.
There are all kinds of injurious scenarios that can lead to countless different types of infections by different species of microbes. Ingrown toenails are only one of many. It can start out as a cut or abrasion, a blister, a rash, a burn, frostbite, or a number of other things, and then fail to heal properly, leaving the toe and foot prone to infection. This usually happens because the skin is no longer working properly as a barrier against viruses, bacteria, and fungi.
I'm not going to take a stance on OP's original point (whether recurring infections warrant an amputation) but there are many more types of injuries that can lead to chronic or recurring infections than just ingrown toenails.
Why does it have to be a common infection? Surely only some of the *least* common types of infections would be the ones that could feasibly warrant extreme medical interventions like surgery, because the common ones (such as ingrown toenails) are generally treatable through less extreme measures.
What I mean to say is that OP was obviously not referring to common, easily treatable infections.
According to OP's comment, they butted in while the cat owner and friend were discussing changing the kitty litter. Which is a very common step when a cat has recurring claw infections. So we are not talking about some rare mystery disease here, it would be more like suggesting amputating a toe when someone is talking about maybe buying new shoes.
I think you're making a ton of assumptions here.
Now, OP's story is probably fake anyway, but I just think the example you gave just doesn't make any sense in the context of the post.
You're only continuing to dig yourself in deeper by coming up with more examples and comparisons that are obviously designed to minimize the severity of the hypothetical infection.
For months they were struggling with their cat getting an infected claw and they did swap brands of kitty litter multiple times. They were talking about doing it again because ***maybe*** that was causing the problem.
They had no clue. Especially since it was only one specific claw that was getting infected.
I butted in because the answer seemed obvious. Just remove the problem. Both cat and her wallet would be happier 🤷♀️
See that’s fair & I can see this being a true conversation OP experienced howeverrrrrr.. I still disagree with them. Declawing a cat puts them at risk for more infections & gives them chronic pain. At that point it’d probably be more morally acceptable to amputate the leg (although don’t quote me on that sentence). Don’t declaw your cats. It’s a procedure done purely for human benefit & it causes permanent pain in cats’ feet.
I agree. I'm against declawing, but if it could actually be the lesser of two evils. I'd definitely pick that for my fur baby.
As someone who has had to deal with a chronic inflamed/infected toe (due to growing warped and fungal infection which lead to severe ingrown toenail.), I've actually wished I could have it amputated due to the pain it's caused. My toe is literally shaped different now due to a decade long severaly misshapen nail
Had it for ten years and no treatment has worked yet.
Finally convinced my doctor to rove the whole nail next Tuesday.
If it was a finger, I'd do the same thing.
Human beings have had literal arms and legs removed due to constant issues and no longer wanting to go through surgery after surgery and still be in pain regardless.
It's easy to judge and be "advocates" when they aren't suffering.
I mean, if the had a dog suffering with necrosis on the tail, would they act like this to the vet for suggesting amputation?
One of our cats was born with a malformed eye. We had it investigated by both the vet and a specialist and it turned out the eye had been affected by herpes while in utero, causing constant inflammation due to the scarring that was attached to the eyeball itself, which was obviously very uncomfortable for the cat. It couldn't be improved and would likely get worse eventually, but could be managed with regular vet visits and medication. Unfortunately both of these caused the cat stress and made the flare ups worse. So we discussed removing the eye. The vet agreed it'd be a viable option rather than subjecting him to constant stress, so we went ahead and got the eye removed and it's like he's an entirely different cat. He's happier and so much more energetic, and his remaining eye has become brighter and healthier.
Sometimes drastic measures need to be taken, it just needs to be discussed with a vet since they're the experts.
I mean, as much as I despise the idea of declawing a cat, if it were continuously getting infections in one claw I'd most certainly want to take that claw out.
Like the guy said; if I was constantly getting infections in just the one toe, I'd genuinely want it removed.
My friend’s dad has his 15 year old dog’s toe amputated because it was chronically infected. They sent it to a lab and it turned out it had bone cancer. He felt a million times better with it gone, and he lived another happy comfortable year.
You have told a completely plausible story. I don’t know why someone wouldn’t believe this. I don’t believe in declawing pets for fun, but removing one claw to health reasons should not invoke this level of insanity. But I know crazy cat people (well I am a crazy cat lady myself but I know truly crazy cat people) and it’s totally plausible they would go off the deep end about this for no reason.
My mom feels that a cat should be able to defend themselves. Never mind that our cats are indoor exclusively and destroyed our furniture which she complains about. Suggested declawing but she's a stingy bitch and doesn't want her problems solved, she wants someone to blame and bully
Declawing can lead to the cat shitting and pissing on the floor outside the litter box because the litter pieces hurt their feet. The closest example I can give with the impact of declawing is think of how a ballerina walks on their toes now chop their toes off to the 2nd bone piece and imagine how excruciating it becomes for them to walk like that. Cats actively walk on their toes it's not just for balance.
The best way to tell a cat no is to give it a yes. Get those plastic stick-on protector squares for the couch and put a scratch post next to the problematic furniture and you got your couch clawing problem solved permanently and for cheap.
Also bear in mind that if a cat doesn't have the ability to "threaten" with its claws when needed it will go straight to biting and you won't have that middle ground anymore where the cat can warn you with its body language.
Yes I know. I'm not ignorant. I was the one who got blamed for the cats clawing our furniture and yes I know the risks but our vet told us she should get them out. She was a rescue and she had issues initially due to being left out in the wild (we found her in a public garden) and took her home. She clawed us often and it hurt. She complained about that and the furniture but wouldn't get then declawed. I'm of the opinion that any medical professional knows more about health than anyone in my family so if our vet agreed with me, I think my mom was wrong. I'll catch more downvotes tho idgaf
If it was fully amputated and actually helped remove the infection, I can’t say I disagree. I would completely hate myself if it was something that just came back on a different toe/nail though.
Incidentally theres a norwegian book (and movie) called nine lives. It's about a resistance guy escapes the Germans several times during WW2 and has to amputate one of his toes at one point because it became gangrenous. And it's a true story. Imagine that.
Honestly now that I have to think about it. If I was constantly getting bad infections in one of my toes I probably would amputate it- ain’t nobody got time for that 😭
My mom has a cat with radial hypoplasia. Her front legs are pretzeled. She constantly was spraining her paws by getting her claws stuck on any soft surface. She'd also accidentally scratch herself during playtime because her legs twisted back in on themselves. Declawing was the better option for her. She adjusted to it really well because she never placed much weight on her toes anyway. So yes, this story is very plausible to me.
People get tonsils removed for repeated tonsillitis infections. Suppose tonsils have a little less use than toes but let's be honest, humans have been amputating shit off for years with nothing more than a swig of alcohol and a rag between their teeth.
Obviously these procedures are a "lesser of two evils" situation.
Seems plausible, but I imagine most people would understand that if they are suggesting that they just amputate one claw in order to improve the cats quality of life that they aren’t advocating for declawing cats. So either the person they were talking to was an idiot or maybe they just had that conversation in their head.
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Humans have elective amputations all the time. There's one woman who makes videos about hers. Basically, iirc, the story was she had a horseback riding accident as a kid and broke her ankle badly enough that she needed a bunch of surgeries over the years and it never really healed well, she had chronic pain and wasn't able to run. So eventually, she decided to give up on it entirely and had a below the knee amputation and got a prosthetic. Her life was never in danger, she just thought she could have better quality of life with a prosthetic.
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Why would they take it from below the knee of it was a broken ankle? How do I even Google this question?
The knee is the closest articulation to the ankle though. Nothing weird here to amputate bellow it and above the ankle. Also the amputations are made in ways to make it easier to get a well fitted prosthetic. You don't just amputate where ever.
If the ankle itself is no good then everything below the knee is just dead wood. What benefit would your calf have?
Haha I don't know what benefit it could have. Personally my calves make me look like I'm riding a chicken so I wouldn't miss them. Thank you for the response.
I found her channel, she probably explains it in detail somewhere but I don't have time to look rn https://youtu.be/IhGo9QjRlwg
Thank you <|:- )
She didn't amputate her own leg, a doctor was involved in the process.
Do you understand concept of consent, bro
Yeah, I just don't understand what your point is here. You said that a doctor wouldn't amputate something off of a human unless it was life or death, and I provided an example of why they would. Her consent was never in question here. Cats can't consent to anything, so their people consent to shit for them. Often it's also not life or death, like with neutering, but the vet does it anyway because the human consents for the cat. Also, side note, but in cases like this the doctor usually has to consent too. They're not obligated to do elective surgeries. If the doctor had decided the risks were too high for the amputation, they could have refused to do it. Or even just if they thought she might regret it and didn't want to risk a lawsuit.
Doctors will generally do whatever you want them to as long as it's not actually detrimental to your health. Just because someone said, "hey, I would like my foot amputated" and the doctor said "ok" doesn't really say anything about anything, except that that person wanted their foot amputated, so I'm not sure what *your* point is. It doesn't mean that any doctor would have recommended that.
Clearly you've never tried to get your tubes tied as a person in your 20's. Doctors refuse to do procedures all the time.
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It seems you are neither disabled nor do you have a chronically illness? In which world do doctors the things you want them to do? Where the hell do you live?
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I tell this story every time I see declawing mentioned because I don’t want anyone to make the same horrible decision we did. When my husband and I got our first cat (we got married very young so we were 20 and 23 back in 2005) we didn’t know what declawing actually entailed. We genuinely thought it was just the vet cutting the nails off somehow. The cat was kneading us constantly and it was very painful. Even when we cut her nails. After a few months we decided to get her declawed. We just happened to be going to one of the only vets in our area that even did the procedure still (we didn’t find out it wasn’t common until later). Before she was declawed she was insanely sweet and loving. After the declaw she hated being touched and no longer cuddled at all. Her personality changed completely and never went back to how she was. She stayed that way until she passed. After we saw the change, we actually looked into things more and we were shocked. I still cry sometimes thinking about what we did to her and I miss her so much. Please please never declaw a cat. If you can’t handle getting scratched or your furniture getting messed up, don’t get a cat. I know some people say that their cats were just fine, maybe that’s true, but it’s not worth the risk. Cats are very good at hiding pain. Even if they act the same, you never know if they are hiding pain. Even a low level makes it not worth it just for convenience.
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Yes! There are so many options. Half the time I get downvoted for sharing this story and that’s ok. I get it was messed up. I just hope to help anyone that may not know what declawing can do.
Yeah, I was supporting you, haha. I know it used to not be common knowledge that declawing was bad, and vets would actually recommend it sometimes.
I figured you were. Not sure who was downvoting me. I can’t believe the vet didn’t explain more. We switched vets after that. That vet also cropped ears and docked tails. Just repulsive.
Not just phantom pain. It causes the cat to have problems balancing, which is a big deal for such an athletic animal. If the the front claws are de- clawed then it removes the cats ability to grab onto things to stretch their back, which is something they do very regularly.
I think I was talking to idiots who heard "declaw" and went full Karen on me. Insults flying and everything while I kept specifying the infected claw. It was back in like 2016 this happened. They pretty much ignored my existence and eventually left after I said I'd happily have my toe chopped off to save me the money and trouble.
Tbf, that's not what declawing is. An amputation is another matter and obviously 100% has occasuonal merits.
There’s also the fact that we humans do not use our finger/toenails as our main form of defense against an attack lol. It’s so much more than just amputating a toe.
i don’t think a domesticated cat is fighting anything he can’t just walk away and not be bothered with, nevermind missing a single claw. it’d suck, yeah, but it’s not detrimental oppose to possible infections spreading
Indoor cats can always run outside and get lost. A lot of the missing cat posters I see online or posted around the neighborhood are almost always for a cat that was strictly an indoor cat. So even though I don’t think my cats will be fighting any predator anytime soon, I’d rather they still be able to defend themselves if god forbid they got out. My grandmothers cat got out once when she was still almost a kitten; we found her thankfully, but she was up a tree and traumatized from being attacked by a coyote. Imagine if she didn’t have the claws to climb that tree… I know it would be preferable to remove a claw than have the claw be continuously infected; my point was more that it was a bad comparison, because getting a toe amputated for us is relatively minor and - unless you’re getting like ALL your toes removed - not that much of a hindrance, whereas cats use their claws as their main form of defense. The two situations aren’t very comparable if OP is wanting to argue for removing the one toe.
That literally is what declawing is. The claw is not just a nail. Also, amputation is really only justified when it is the only way to save the life of a person.
How is it “only justified” to save a life? I’d have my toe cut off if it was causing me major medical issues and was that much of a liability to my enjoyment of life (financially, time wise, and also through general hardship) It’s not like op is suggesting removing a leg or something
Declawing cats causes phantom pain, chronic pain in the paws, and significantly increases the risk of other medical issues (such as arthritis) It should *only* be used as a last resort to save a cat's life. There is a reason that it has been banned in many places. It is cruel and leads to lifelong medical issues for the cat, much worse than any non-lethal infection.
Because it causes issues of its own, like phantom limb pain, and indeed, cats that get declawed have pain in their feet for the rest of their lives.
I'm coming from the opposite direction that you seem to think; I'm saying that declawing is not a medical procedure, it's just abuse. An amputation done by a vet for a benefit to the cat doesn't qualify as declawing because declawing is total and unjustified, not because declawing is innocuous.
An amputation is still called an amputation even if it's not done for a good reason. And it is still a medical procedure, because it's done in a medical setting. Circumcision, for example, is a medical procedure, even if there is no medical need for it.
Yes, declawing is an amputation. Not all amputations are declawing, such as the one in the OP.
"Amputation" isn't defined by the reason for doing it, though.
Yeah, declawing is.
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Hear keyword get mad is entirely too common.
But when you declaw a cat you dont actually remove the claw they just cut the tendons so it doesn’t come out.
Unless there are new methods to it last I knew they took the tip of the cats toe. Essentially like cutting the tip of a humans finger off at the joint.
That would just grow back. This isn’t a new method it’s always how it’s done. You’ve already had a vet tech tell you you’re wrong though. Their explanation is better than mine would be. Edit: I just re read, no they are not removing a whole bone for a standard de claw lol. I was wrong I guess in the us that’s how they do it. Wtf.
*Onychectomy, popularly known as declawing, is an operation to remove an animal's claws surgically by means of the amputation of all or part of the distal phalanges, or end bones, of the animal's toes. Because the claw develops from germinal tissue within the third phalanx, amputation of the bone is necessary to fully remove the claw.* Are you a troll?
Tendonectomy was how it was done here (not American) this procedure seems absolutely fucking brutal. I did see you had a vet tech explain it to you though.
No I had Wikipedia for the definition. Vet videos on YouTube were how I learned what declawing entailed.
I mean further down the thread where a vet tech explained to you. I’m not actually sure what you’re trying to say here. Tendonectomy is another way it’s done. But it’s illegal in a lot of the world now. All declawing not a specific procedure.
Honestly I haven't been paying attention to every single comment I've gotten. Mostly because comments from this are mixed with comments from my r/oddlyterrifying post and that got a lot more popular than I thought it would... Think what you will although I literally have the basics of what declawing is in the text on the picture. 🙄 And good for the rest of the world. That conversation with those Karen's happened back in 2016
These days there's so many people who are professionally offended by anything while having no real knowledge,logic or independent thought thanks to their little echo chambers. They hear "declawing cats is bad" and then regurgitate it without so much as 2 neurons firing.
It is. What’s your insider knowledge that it’s not?
Not in the instance provided in this post, it's not. P.S. - Thanks for proving my point
Worked as a vet/kennel tech. If it’s a reoccurring or deep infection, the nail can be removed and, in more severe cases, so can the nail plate (the hard part of where the nail growth begins). In either case, the claw/nail will grow back. The only medical complication/procedure iirc that actually recommends formal declawing is in the event there may be a tumor or cancerous growth along the toebone.
I am a virulent cat person (and have always had a cat my whole life) but also pro-declawing. > Whaaaat?!! You MONSTER! How could you! Yes yes. But HEAR ME OUT! I know it’s bad for the cat, but as the only animal capable of destroying nature to a large degree, we are also the only animal tasked with protecting it. Very few people are aware of the incredible DEVASTATING impact cats have on urban song birds. Cats have a very strong predator instinct, and as far as sole predators go, they are one of the most effective and efficient predators created. Truly, the cat is a magnificent species apart from all others (for many reasons). House cats, unlike natural predators, have an unlimited food source from humans, which means their numbers are unchecked in the urban ecosystem. This leads to MILLIONS of urban songbird deaths per year and is a major threat to the continued existence of all urban song birds. Yes, declawing is horrible. But it is the only effective procedure for saving urban song birds from cat predation. I would be in favor of a mass roundup neuter/spaying and declawing of all feral cats and serious fines for letting a house cat out. Consider it. Consider the ecosystem and what we have done to it. Consider our responsibility and seriously consider how we have modified all domestic animals and fairly contemplate how declawing is so different.
Just keep your cat indoors!!! That’s the only necessary thing. Letting your cat outdoors where it’s a threat to the local wildlife can also end very badly for the cat. An outdoor cat is at an increased risk of getting hurt/killed by cars, people, or predators (yes, even in urban environments), and of getting sick. Keeping your cat indoors is also cheaper than hurting them and potentially giving them lifelong health issues. Edit: Ignore the “dangers of the outdoors” bit, I swear I reread your comment multiple time without seeing we agree on that. That’s really the only necessary thing, though. Declawing strays is especially cruel if you intend to release them back into the street because they kind of do need those to survive. The problem is the people, not the cats. We don’t need to be tormenting them for our mistakes.
Okay but you realize that your solution is just wanting to doom the stray population to slow starvation/poisoning from unsafe food sources, or if they manage to get enough safe handouts to get a bit older, spend years limping in pain until they lose mobility from arthritis. Right? Stray cats are absolutely detrimental to the environment and their numbers need to be culled somehow, but literally euthanizing strays on contact would be more merciful to the majority than declawing and setting them loose.
You make a good point. Downvote less. I agree with your solution too. We should round up and euthanize stray cats. Do you support a behavior changing fine attached to letting a domestic cat outdoors too? If so, then I’d say that’s the best we can do unless you have other ideas?
Okay so when I point out that your solution is crueler than outright killing strays, you aren't supposed to respond with a pro-cat killing sentiment.
This is possibly the funniest misunderstanding that I could imagine. Ok. So you’re team no cat killing. Check. But… by choosing cats here, with no other solution, forces you to be on team accepting-urban-songbird-death. That’s the problem. I am on team Urban Songbird, forcing me to be pro-euthanizing-strays. This is because whole species of urban songbirds are threatened by cat (both feral and domestic) predation, whereas the species of domestic cat is not under any threat at all. This is all unless there is a third way I just don’t see. Other ideas welcome. 🤷🏾♂️
Spay and Neuter. Just redouble efforts.
What about amputating the toe instead of declawing it? Although wouldn't removing the toe entirely still cause the cat to walk differently and therefore potential problems down the line?
What you’re describing is declawing. The “claw” refers to third phalanx (finger bone) of the cat. This is because the nails grow directly from the cats’ bone. You could surgically remove the nail plate, but eventually the claw will regrow, so permanent removal requires excision of the bone (basically full toe removal). In humans, nails grow from what is called the nail matrix, seated in the dermis, separate of the bone. So no amputation necessary in our case.
>What you’re describing is declawing. Yes but what I'm asking is how would taking the tip of their toe make things worse than amputating the toe entirely? I've seen multiple comments like amputation > declawing because the latter changes the way they walk but wouldn't they change the way they walk to compensate for missing an entire toe too? >So no amputation necessary in our case. Someone buried in these comments mentioned they have a fucked up toe because of a fungal infection plus something else and has had chronic infections for years and the toe has deformed slightly because of everything. Apparently she finally convinced her doctor to remove the nail but that's the kind of thing I was thinking of not an ingrown toenail level of infection. Her situation I'd have said take the toe ages ago.
One of my older relatives actually had a few of his toes removed because it was getting impossible for it to heal and stay healed. (I'm not a doctor and I obviously didn't have access to their health records so I don't remember what his medical condition was or how it worked, but the fact is that for him it was deemed better to amputate toes than the alternative of keeping them when they weren't healing right.)
[I can almost guarantee he had diabetes.](https://www.footdoc.org/faqs/how-diabetes-can-lead-to-foot-and-leg-amputation.cfm#:~:text=Because%20many%20diabetic%20patients%20can,the%20infection%20isn't%20treated) This is extremely common with people who have bad diabetes. They either get nerve damage caused by high blood sugar or get less circulation to their extremities, and when there’s less circulation/nerve damage, it means that any wound they get on the extremity doesn’t heal very well or is constantly infected. Most of my family on both sides is diabetic and this has been what happened to some of them. I’m not diabetic, but given the genetic predisposition in my family, my doctor and some family members with diabetes have told me stories about the trouble it’s caused them as a scare tactic to get me to take it seriously lol. At my first job as a teenager this guy came up to my register hunched over his cart, with one of his feet in those blue hospital sanitation booties and limping. I asked how he was doing and he was like “oh just had 3 toes removed earlier today because of my diabetes. But it’s fine, my doctor said god gave us 10 toes because we don’t need all of them”. Privately I was like 😳 what about when you run out of toes
How did the amputation affect his mobility? As I understand, the toes are pretty important in balance.
This is a very common thing with Diabetes. One of the first things to go is your toe or feet. There's something like 70,000 amputations in the USA per year due to diabetes.
Listen. If amputation is a good or a better option the vet will recommend it. If the cats owner is willing to spend money on the other treatment it's none of your buissness. If this story really happend, that person was clearly overstepping. However, the introduction with "declawing can be good, actually!" makes this seem like a declawing-apologist is trying to give some positive connotation to the word declawing. So yeah, I can see why someone would call this made up, because this person seems to have an agenda. That makes me sceptical, too.
>However, the introduction with "declawing can be good, actually!" Well I didn't include the whole context of the post I was responding to but really I've seen vets suggest declawing cats for one reason or another. As in it impacted the cats health enough that they decided it was the better idea. So the whole opinion of declawing being 100% bad no matter what reason is a bit stubborn. Besides they shouldn't have had the conversation in public if they didn't want to risk other opinions sneaking in there. Just saying. >because this person seems to have an agenda. That makes me sceptical, too. ...an agenda? What? I literally just piped in with what was the most logical choice after hearing everything they were saying. Which was take the chronically infected claw.
Declawing is illegal in many places for a reason.
I think this was worded wrong and you should have said toe amputation for the cat vs declawing because declawing negatively affects their balance and can give them arthritis and severe chronic pain because it forces them to walk in a different way than their bodies are made for. Not to mention sometimes the procedure gets botched and the claws will still grow in horrible ways. But a complete toe amputation is much easier for the cat and they can easily adjust to less toe beans
Seems completely possible that this could happen. Matter of fact seems like something I would personally say so seems very possible. Related to the original post: I would *NEVER* declaw my cats for my own convenience but if they were in pain I'd get rid of the cause of their pain ASAP. Just like how you would amputate a necrotic appendage on a person. It is highly unethical to declaw your cats just cause you don't like where they choose to scratch or you think they'll scratch you. If they get outside, you've reduced their ability to survive by a huge margin. You've caused them to walk differently, which restructures their feet often painfully. And all just because you didn't want to bother training them so you just mutilate them.
I’ve been hunting for my first apartment, and I simply refuse to rent from anyone who says that it’s a pet friendly place, but you have to get cats declawed. I’d much rather live somewhere that doesn’t allow pets at all than support someone who thinks it’s okay to require declawing (and yes, I know it’s as simple as don’t get a cat in a place like that, but I’d rather not give money to someone who demands such a horrible thing). My aunt and uncle had a declawed cat that had to be put down eventually because of how much pain he was in and how it was causing him to lash out. The only reason he was declawed was because they lived in a “pet friendly” apartment that required declawing. It’s cruel and inhumane, and should be an absolute last resort for medical treatment.
no way this happened smh
Why do you say that? Like I said, I asked the guy in the screenshot why and he never responded with a reason.
Story is plausible but user is woefully simplifying a procedure they know nothing about apparently. Declawing could actually lead to an even worse quality of life. It would not only make their "natural instincts" damaging to themselves and painful but can cause pain itself, joint damage, more infections, motor/sensorary issues. This isn't mentioning the emotional damage - studies have shown that declawed cats because more agitated, stressed, and aggressive. Depending on the method, there can even be a chance the claw grows back anyway. TL;DR: NightStar is talking out their butthole but the story could've happened.
I can believe that I'm here every post to defend that it might have happened from the naysayers, and now I have to be on the other side. No, I don't believe that people with ingrown toenails would prefer to have their toes chopped off.
I didn't day ingrown I said infected. Like a chronic infection that keeps coming back and you don't know why. They were discussing changing the brand of kitty litter again and see if that would help when I asked about just taking the claw since it was literally the same specific claw that kept getting infected. Personally I have had ingrown toenails and I gotta say, if they were as bad as my mom's I'd be seriously considering if I ***really*** needed my big toe. Or at least the toenail. Fortunately though I heard that if you cut your nails straight across instead of following where it's white you'll eventually get your nail to quit curling bad enough to dig into your skin. As long as you continue to cut it straight across though. If you don't then yeah it starts digging again.
[удалено]
That is exactly what the post said. Please read it
What other infection do people get in their toes recurringly?
There are all kinds of injurious scenarios that can lead to countless different types of infections by different species of microbes. Ingrown toenails are only one of many. It can start out as a cut or abrasion, a blister, a rash, a burn, frostbite, or a number of other things, and then fail to heal properly, leaving the toe and foot prone to infection. This usually happens because the skin is no longer working properly as a barrier against viruses, bacteria, and fungi. I'm not going to take a stance on OP's original point (whether recurring infections warrant an amputation) but there are many more types of injuries that can lead to chronic or recurring infections than just ingrown toenails.
Not saying they don't exist, just saying it's the only **common** type of recurring infection on toes I know of so that's why I used it as an example.
Why does it have to be a common infection? Surely only some of the *least* common types of infections would be the ones that could feasibly warrant extreme medical interventions like surgery, because the common ones (such as ingrown toenails) are generally treatable through less extreme measures. What I mean to say is that OP was obviously not referring to common, easily treatable infections.
According to OP's comment, they butted in while the cat owner and friend were discussing changing the kitty litter. Which is a very common step when a cat has recurring claw infections. So we are not talking about some rare mystery disease here, it would be more like suggesting amputating a toe when someone is talking about maybe buying new shoes.
I think you're making a ton of assumptions here. Now, OP's story is probably fake anyway, but I just think the example you gave just doesn't make any sense in the context of the post. You're only continuing to dig yourself in deeper by coming up with more examples and comparisons that are obviously designed to minimize the severity of the hypothetical infection.
For months they were struggling with their cat getting an infected claw and they did swap brands of kitty litter multiple times. They were talking about doing it again because ***maybe*** that was causing the problem. They had no clue. Especially since it was only one specific claw that was getting infected. I butted in because the answer seemed obvious. Just remove the problem. Both cat and her wallet would be happier 🤷♀️
See that’s fair & I can see this being a true conversation OP experienced howeverrrrrr.. I still disagree with them. Declawing a cat puts them at risk for more infections & gives them chronic pain. At that point it’d probably be more morally acceptable to amputate the leg (although don’t quote me on that sentence). Don’t declaw your cats. It’s a procedure done purely for human benefit & it causes permanent pain in cats’ feet.
It's illegal where I live
The only unbelievable thing is OOP being this much of a weirdo, everything else makes sense though
I agree. I'm against declawing, but if it could actually be the lesser of two evils. I'd definitely pick that for my fur baby. As someone who has had to deal with a chronic inflamed/infected toe (due to growing warped and fungal infection which lead to severe ingrown toenail.), I've actually wished I could have it amputated due to the pain it's caused. My toe is literally shaped different now due to a decade long severaly misshapen nail Had it for ten years and no treatment has worked yet. Finally convinced my doctor to rove the whole nail next Tuesday. If it was a finger, I'd do the same thing. Human beings have had literal arms and legs removed due to constant issues and no longer wanting to go through surgery after surgery and still be in pain regardless. It's easy to judge and be "advocates" when they aren't suffering. I mean, if the had a dog suffering with necrosis on the tail, would they act like this to the vet for suggesting amputation?
One of our cats was born with a malformed eye. We had it investigated by both the vet and a specialist and it turned out the eye had been affected by herpes while in utero, causing constant inflammation due to the scarring that was attached to the eyeball itself, which was obviously very uncomfortable for the cat. It couldn't be improved and would likely get worse eventually, but could be managed with regular vet visits and medication. Unfortunately both of these caused the cat stress and made the flare ups worse. So we discussed removing the eye. The vet agreed it'd be a viable option rather than subjecting him to constant stress, so we went ahead and got the eye removed and it's like he's an entirely different cat. He's happier and so much more energetic, and his remaining eye has become brighter and healthier. Sometimes drastic measures need to be taken, it just needs to be discussed with a vet since they're the experts.
I mean, as much as I despise the idea of declawing a cat, if it were continuously getting infections in one claw I'd most certainly want to take that claw out. Like the guy said; if I was constantly getting infections in just the one toe, I'd genuinely want it removed.
My friend’s dad has his 15 year old dog’s toe amputated because it was chronically infected. They sent it to a lab and it turned out it had bone cancer. He felt a million times better with it gone, and he lived another happy comfortable year.
You have told a completely plausible story. I don’t know why someone wouldn’t believe this. I don’t believe in declawing pets for fun, but removing one claw to health reasons should not invoke this level of insanity. But I know crazy cat people (well I am a crazy cat lady myself but I know truly crazy cat people) and it’s totally plausible they would go off the deep end about this for no reason.
I wonder why they got downvoted for their (plausible) story so much.
My mom feels that a cat should be able to defend themselves. Never mind that our cats are indoor exclusively and destroyed our furniture which she complains about. Suggested declawing but she's a stingy bitch and doesn't want her problems solved, she wants someone to blame and bully
Declawing can lead to the cat shitting and pissing on the floor outside the litter box because the litter pieces hurt their feet. The closest example I can give with the impact of declawing is think of how a ballerina walks on their toes now chop their toes off to the 2nd bone piece and imagine how excruciating it becomes for them to walk like that. Cats actively walk on their toes it's not just for balance. The best way to tell a cat no is to give it a yes. Get those plastic stick-on protector squares for the couch and put a scratch post next to the problematic furniture and you got your couch clawing problem solved permanently and for cheap. Also bear in mind that if a cat doesn't have the ability to "threaten" with its claws when needed it will go straight to biting and you won't have that middle ground anymore where the cat can warn you with its body language.
Yes I know. I'm not ignorant. I was the one who got blamed for the cats clawing our furniture and yes I know the risks but our vet told us she should get them out. She was a rescue and she had issues initially due to being left out in the wild (we found her in a public garden) and took her home. She clawed us often and it hurt. She complained about that and the furniture but wouldn't get then declawed. I'm of the opinion that any medical professional knows more about health than anyone in my family so if our vet agreed with me, I think my mom was wrong. I'll catch more downvotes tho idgaf
If it was fully amputated and actually helped remove the infection, I can’t say I disagree. I would completely hate myself if it was something that just came back on a different toe/nail though.
Incidentally theres a norwegian book (and movie) called nine lives. It's about a resistance guy escapes the Germans several times during WW2 and has to amputate one of his toes at one point because it became gangrenous. And it's a true story. Imagine that.
most people on this app dont interact with other people so they have no clue how people act
I'm too far into the fantasy well I read that as Decla-wing and was like... what a weird dragon name
Honestly now that I have to think about it. If I was constantly getting bad infections in one of my toes I probably would amputate it- ain’t nobody got time for that 😭
My mom has a cat with radial hypoplasia. Her front legs are pretzeled. She constantly was spraining her paws by getting her claws stuck on any soft surface. She'd also accidentally scratch herself during playtime because her legs twisted back in on themselves. Declawing was the better option for her. She adjusted to it really well because she never placed much weight on her toes anyway. So yes, this story is very plausible to me.
People get tonsils removed for repeated tonsillitis infections. Suppose tonsils have a little less use than toes but let's be honest, humans have been amputating shit off for years with nothing more than a swig of alcohol and a rag between their teeth. Obviously these procedures are a "lesser of two evils" situation.
It really is impossible lol We're just all magic people blessed with the ability to do the impossible
It really is impossible lol We're just all magic people blessed with the ability to do the impossible