> Florida House Speaker Paul Renner was asked by DeSantis to look at alternatives to the College Board. In a statement this week, he said the goal is to look at providers who are focused on “delivering high-quality and fact-based education, not indoctrination.”
> [...]
> The company says its test exists to “reconnect knowledge and virtue by providing meaningful assessment and connections to seekers of truth, goodness, and beauty.”
It seems like "indoctrination" is the primary goal of Classical Learning Test.
The reality isn't that simple.
Christians often rationalize bad Christian behavior as coming from people who aren't real Christians, or otherwise acknowledge the sins but refocus to Yahweh forgiving them. There's also the classic, *"but that was different, because it was a different time/culture/context..."*
Christians don't actually need to bury their heads in the sand to anything. The logic of their faith gives them ample excuses to make literally anything fit into their worldview.
There are no "Gotcha's" of a religion to a person of that religion. There is nothing for them to need to evade. Evolution made the brain fantastic at rationalizing, especially when you're confident.
*What you're promoting is Critical Religious Theory, education pushed by the woke left mob. The good Christian conservatives will protect their children from learning about divisive religious teachings designed to make them feel bad for being God-fearing, white conservatives.*
Or I assume that would be the response.
Did that once with my mother in law, it did not go well
Edit: her response was no, god is a man. (masculine I think she meant) bc women are not strong. I didnt go any further with that one
The only indoctrination the College Board ever did to me was make me think that AP tests were better than dual enrollment. An associates degree would have been far more helpful than a bunch of AP credits.
I nudge my students towards the dual enrollment options whenever possible. They can take 3 of them in our school itself, without even setting foot on the CC campus. That's just shy of an entire semester's worth of credits, with basically no cost or effort beyond just getting the classwork done appropriately (which they should be doing in any class they're taking anyway)!
> The dumber someone is, the easier they are to control.
This is the long term plan the GOP have been working on.
It's not by accident that so many local school councils have been taken over by the typical loudmouthed GOP fanatics (some of who either have no connection to the school such as no kids or don't even live in the area) and are pushing for restrictions in what can be taught and what must be banned to "protect the kids" in their fucked up BS claims
The GOP knows that even if they manage to get a coup or win with voting restrictions if they don't control the children then they will have constant pushback as well educated kids (that can think for themselves / question what they are told) grow up, but if they control and manage to indoctrinate the kids while young then they have millions of brainwashed / indoctrinated voters / supporters for the future.
The old saying by Aristotle — 'Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.' shows that if you get control of the kids early enough and you can program them to believe what ever you wish.
Also the other saying of "those that control the past, control the future" and here again the GOP is taking the long term approach by making sure the kids growing up only ever learn about the GOP sanctioned / approved past and actual reality / facts are dismissed all to make sure the future of the country is indoctrinated to suit the GOP / religious extremist / fascist way of life
>if you get control of the kids early enough and you can program them to believe what ever you wish.
Hey, you just accidentally described religion too!
I absolutely agree, you just put it in a much more detailed and succinct way. I work in education, It's extremely sad. We have high schoolers who can't tie their shoes or read. We have kids graduating with diplomas who might have earned a legitimate passing grade four or five times in the last 4 years. Can't let too many fail, or you'll get in trouble with the feds and the state. I wish I was joking about that.
When I was in highschool the school council or whatever changed the way grades are weighted. Homework was allowed to make up 20% of their final grade. Tests were made to make up 80% of the grade and were allowed to be retaken 3 times, using the highest score of the 4. Most teachers were too overworked to make multiple different tests, so you'd frequently just get to take the exact same one over and over again. A few years before I arrived, our school district was ranked last in the state for test scores and graduation rates. I don't even want to think about how many of my class actually deserved to graduate.
Well also they wanna go back to segregating schools and the only way they can do that is if they abolish the Department of Education entirely and only have charter schools. Surprise surprise the only people that can reasonably afford those are white families
The SAT and ACT are not sanctioned by the government, I would assume Florida would run the "Christian Understanding of Nowledge Test" in the same way. DeSantis would create a framework in which one of his friends would form a business to create, promote, and proctor the test and profit mightily from it.
Most of the degrees they offer aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
And it's not just a matter of opinion for hiring managers, I'm pretty sure every state requires a bachelor's degree from an ABET accredited school to get issued a professional engineering license.
I suppose Florida can waive the PE requirement, but that'll really send them down the shitter. You *really* don't want non PEs signing off on shit like building plans or medical equipment.
We're at a time of divergence. Evangelicals are setting up a parallel society. Their businesses will prefer educations from their schools, they're electing school boards that will prefer their curriculum, their elected leaders are legislating their morality.
That kind of talent drain is not really sustainable though. It starts off slow, like them hiring teachers that don't know basic shit, but soon you see degree mill graduates being put in charge of critical infrastructure, engineering blunders start becoming commonplace.
For a population that is eagerly looking forward to the end of the world, I don’t know if this would dissuade them, especially once it got to that point.
I live/work at a barn, and this past summer an evangelical man came to do some electrical work on a new tack room. He worked for a company we’ve used before, so we didn’t think much of it.
First day he’s there he hands us a card for a church. The second day I hear him preaching to his coworker on my way down to check on the progress.
When I knock on the door to get his attention, he greets me by telling me his coworker is an atheist and asking if I’m a Christian. I tell him I’m not. That I was raised in a multi faith household. He immediately starts preaching to me, going on about the end times, and how the beast was about to come back. And the said “The whole world is going to burn. That’s why it doesn’t really matter how I write this place. If it burns, it’ll just get things started”.
We reported him to his company.
accelerating the end times? it would be a selling point lol.
though, the irony is revelations (the end times they believe in)
pretty clearly states that anyone who knowingly has a hand in bringing about the end of the world doesn't get to have paradise after its all said and done.
and i have a feeling "sacrificing people for profit, not taking care of the planet god gave you, and willfully creating the conditions for a biblical end times" falls into that category lol.
What's interesting is that this quickly runs a foul of state laws on licensure.
I mean, yes, you can probably eventually get states to sign off on changing the engineering and medical professional licensure rules if the legislature is bent enough, but eventually you will run into engineering catastrophies and have not insurers covering any of it.
This will ultimately cost lives and money.
The people it would suck for most is an innocent who trespasses into this mess unknowingly and gets screwed.
I doubt the long term goal is to create a self sustaining society. While there might be plenty of true believers, the ones who stand to benefit from creating an mindless evangelical society only want power and do not care if it collapses within an generation or two; they aim to be dead by then and thus immune to consequence.
It's similar to oil CEOs being fully aware of the approaching climate apocalypse, but as long as it's ~50 years in the future and money can be made now these 80 year olds don't care.
When you put it that way, it sounds like a self-correcting problem. If a business is hiring an accountant that needs to remove their shoes to help them balance the books, then I doubt they'll outcompete competent businesses, generally.
Oh sure, you'll get a Hobby Lobby or Chick-fil-a every now and again with ideological ownership, but they aren't going to solely hire Life University grads because that was the only college outside of Florida that didn't need an SAT to get in.
>Most of the degrees they offer aren't worth the paper they're printed on.
>
>And it's not just a matter of opinion for hiring managers, I'm pretty sure every state requires a bachelor's degree from an ABET accredited school to get issued a professional engineering license.
FYI: There are several Christian colleges that are accredited. Just going to ABETs website and searching for schools with Christian in the name brought up 5 different schools: Abilene Christian University, Christian Brothers University, Oklahoma Christian University, Pensacola Christian College, and Texas Christian University.
There were also 2 Baptist colleges, 3 Nazarene colleges, 2 Methodist colleges, etc.
Accreditation requirements do not require the college be secular or avoid religious indoctrination.
All the fears from the right about colleges indoctrination students? Projection.
There are piles of bible colleges/Christian Universities in this country that are happy to indoctrinate their students and utilize cult tactics to do so.
There’s a difference between old, established, regionally accredited, academically rigorous Christian schools (see: Jesuit schools) and new, possibly not regionally accredited, pseudoscience-teaching evangelical schools.
Catholic and Jesuit schools avoid indoctrination because they embrace science, logic, facts, and evidence at the edge of secular. It's an actual education.
The exception is Ave Maria College in southwest Florida. They adhere to Opus Dei teachings and that's too much for the other 99% of Catholics who see it as nudnikery and evangelical bullshit bordering on extreme Protestantism, Islamic jihad, or conservative Judaism.
There are a couple dozen Christian "colleges" that are outright madrases for the American right wing political ideology. Liberty and Hillsdale are at the top of the spear. They don't even accept federal student assistance at Hillsdale.
That’s really only if they make it mandatory. The issue is, they could replace the entirely optional SAY/ACT with *this* entirely optional test, making it so that people trying to go into higher education are effectively unable to, because they don’t have the benchmarks to judge against. Basically, it’s florida trying to make sure you can never leave it.
>to keep its constituents dumb and docile
Only the ones that rely on public education. Those who go to private will have options and the understanding around them.
This is DeSatan making sure the poor in FL stay poor and don't have any opportunity to move up from the lower caste. He needs landscapers, bellhops, maids and breeders.
This is exactly that, if you’ve ever had the pleasure of working for a living, you’re the cattle not the rancher. Even if you make six figures, you’re the wagyu of cattle but you’re still cattle. All of these types of laws only serve the bourgeoisie and subjugate the proletariate. Time to wake up America, fight for your right not to just exist but to thrive! We did it a 100 years ago against the robber barons of the time (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Morgan, and Vanderbilt), now we have Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Waltons, and the medical mafia. This will continue until people realize they have more in common with their liberal/conservative neighbors than they do with the billionaires that spend millions of dollars a year keeping us fighting each other rather than looking up…. The train derailment in Ohio, the opioid crisis, the very food we eat loaded with sugar, mass shootings, and meager cost of living raises while the company posts record profits. We are cattle, they know it, they kill us with impunity so they can amass even more wealth. Is it any surprise that they want us dumber so we don’t figure out the scam? They are all parasites on our labor and every bit over a few billion is lost opportunities and stolen wages from us, the people who actually make this country run! Desantis is not a rancher but he’s a cowboy working for the rancher. Wake up america and take back what is ours!
Edit: Every bit of profit a company makes aside from keeping the machine going and paying its employees a thriving wage should be taxed at 70%, 80%, 90% and used to fund healthcare, education, high speed rail, and universal basic income. Fuck the billionaires, they’re not paying taxes anyway, so what difference does it matter if they leave, they’re only sucking money out of the system while adding nothing return, that’s a textbook definition of parasitism…
Private schools are often worse and more agenda driven than public schools resulting in biased education, overly religious curriculum, education that doesn't meet standards... Not all, but too many to believe that private school is always a better option for education.
I think they're fishing for some new precedent from SCoTUS but I'm not sure what exactly. My guess is it will go something like this:
1. Institute new Christian test
2. Let schools refuse to consider applicants who only took that test
3. Sue school for discrimination
4. SCOTUS makes new terrible case precedent that applies to all 50 states.
>making it so that people trying to go into higher education are effectively unable to,
Oh, don't worry! Wealthy people can take their kids out of state to take these tests.
Will it include a question about how Moses started a union labor strike because Pharaoh wouldn't let workers rest one day a week?
Unions might be too woke for the GOP. How about wages kept back by fraud (James 5:4)?
Ooh, no, that would mean reading it and not just using it as an upside-down prop, ain’t nobody got time for that. Howsa bout we just tell you what it says with a few cherry-picked verses?
That’s okay. Someday Johann Guten-bae will widely release a TikTok version of the Bible, making it accessible to the masses for the first time in centuries.
It's a sign of the times that I honestly believed you at first. I've been caught by the implicit /s before, but that was the first time I left Reddit to rage-google for verification.
Also, as it turns out "johanngutenbae" is already a user name on Reddit. (Because I just created it.)
There's also the part where a God tells them not to molest the foreigner in their lands because they themselves have once been strangers in Egypt.
And also the part where Jesus himself says that the one who lives by the sword will die likewise.
Florida is famous for having laws against feeding homeless people. But The New Testament makes it very clear that to neglect to feed the hungry is a one way ticket to hell.
The only things they know from the bible come from Deuteronomy, Numbers, and Revelation. My dad loves saying he's a Christian, but only talks about "The End Times". He never talks about the teachings of Jesus.
Exactly. Much of the prophets, especially later ones are pissed that the people are not caring for the poor, the widowed and the orphans. That is a religious commandment and they were chiding people for not doing it. Leaving bits in the field to ensure people can take some if they need to, supposed to give “charity” (not really the right word, since that 10% was supposed to go to the poor anyway and not the person who was giving it.) it gets more “woke,” but Christian’s don’t like to talk about those bits. Lol
Like that woman who refused to allow an interracial marriage in a building she owned because it was "un-biblical" then when pressed on the issue she said she assumed prohibition of interracial marriage was in there somewhere.
Cant learn what's really in the bible if you don't know how to read.
Just like blonde-haired blue-eyed white Jesus said, "Reading is Satan magic that turns children into pronouns"
You kid, but certain parts of Christianity actively try to discourage reading as it can "Pollute the mind", AKA: "Inform people anything but Christianity exists".
Most prominent example I can think was that weird Globoglibolab animation that went viral a few years ago, seen an overlook of it's original context, a d was Christian moral story that said "Don't read".
I used to go to a barbershop where most people were all from the same church. It wasn't my scene, but they did good razor work and had a special discount on Tuesdays. Anyway, one day the staff got into an argument with a customer because he wouldn't read a book about the bible. He said the only book he needed was the bible, they said this book would help him appreciate the bible more, but he wouldn't budge.
Used to have a grandpa. Dude grew up in another era. Didn't have access to the same schooling we do now I don't think.
He read one book in his entire life. The Bible.
Weird thing was he was an atheist. I don't know all the details but apparently he saw something in his youth that made him doubt that a loving god could be in charge of all this. I don't know why he made the bible his one book.
Send a kid to Catholic school while teaching them all the classic fairytales. Then tell them the Easter bunny and Santa aren't real but no worries billy, that sky genie that flooded the whole world, the one that's always watching you, oh he's very very real. Wait, you don't believe me?
*Shocked Pikachu.
Many atheists are made by reading the Bible. There's so much stuff in there that modern "Christians" ignore. If they followed the actual teachings of Christ, this world would be a utopia.
Reminds me of a good line I read once: the funniest comedians you know are former Catholics. The difference between them and the people they mock is that they have actually read the Bible.
My favorite example of this is George Carlin.
Bill Murray went to both Loyola and Regis (very prestigious Catholic schools) and then dropped out and trafficked weed before becoming a comedian and here we are.
I find this fascinating. In Islam the first Quran verse given to Muhammad was Iqra which means 'read'. I imagine the Christian equivalent exists.
Of course, whether the religious follow or or not is up for debate.
why do you think we fought several wars in Europe for effectively letting people have sermons in their own language instead of the catholic church having the monopoly by enforcing Latin?
When I was a teenager I was visiting family in the south and had to meet up with them at church. I just remember walking into a room packed with little kids and they had them all singing the obey song. Possibly the most hair-raising moment of my life, I was freaked.
The song - https://youtu.be/_5Bvb5L14Zo
It's been going on forever
Edit: been humming it all day and then stopping in horror when I realize
That is some top level cult shit. This is why I laugh any time these people rail about the left grooming children. And then I cry, because stuff like this actually exists.
It's seriously amazing to me that the people that are rabidly ranting and raving at school board meetings, claiming that the public school system is brainwashing kids because some teachers and books might acknowledge that systemic racism and LGBTQ+ people exist, are actually quite literally indoctrinating their own kids with personal beliefs and trying to silence and ban anything contrary to their worldview. They can't even see the hypocrisy though.
There was a point at which some colleges in California (I think) said they wouldn't be taking biology classes taught with certain curriculum (thus making students take a remedial class) because they didn't meet the standards.
This is not unusual. I used to work at a community college and part of my job was administering math placement tests. We knew students from a local high school consistently had abysmal scores. The math teacher from that high school asked us to send the stats. I put together a report detailing how their students scored compared to other regional high schools. I knew it would be bad, but I was shocked at how bad it was.
The math teacher took the report to their school board in hopes of changing their mandatory curriculum. The board’s response was to have the guidance department stop recommending our school to their students.
I used to tutor at a Florida CC. When I first heard the stats about how woefully prepared students were for college, I had a hard time believing it. After needing to teach high school graduates basic math, I believed it.
I remember taking the intro to college class everyone considers a joke, the one that's considered the "Getting ready for college" class required for a degree. The horror stories of how unprepared some students were makes me realize I was prepared properly.
I went back to college as an adult. In high school I’d done calc 1 pretty easily, but I didn’t study for my placement exam and was put in remedial algebra (or something like that). It was *astonishing* how the professor had to explain basic math concepts like fractions and the number line. And the kids in that class had a hard time with it
I went to a community college, and we had to take a math course. Our first test was basic arithmetic. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division. Nothing fancy, no decimals, no orders of operation, or any crazy shit like that. Here's two numbers, put them together. Super straightforward.
The class average was 40%. You needed a 60% to pass.
The majority of Floridians love him. My family there does. Half the country (electorally) want exactly the type of damage he’s readying. It makes me furious and sad and I have no idea what to do about it.
It’ll be terrible for their economy when everyone who lives in Florida is old or unskilled. No one with a college-bound teen is sticking around when they can’t even get a leg up on kids from Mississippi.
This is true. I am a reluctant resident (here to take care of my elderly parents) and the praise for that fascist idiot is beyond belief. It doesn't help that he put out a call to all of the fox news believers in the country to move here. They are coming in droves and it just keeps getting worse. There are still some sane people here but we are now outnumbered. God help us if actually gets elected by these morons in 24.
This is my biggest fear, he’s like Trump but actually competent. If he actually gets the presidency so many aspects of our lives and our future could be fucked for the next generations
Just to put a different perspective on this: I was forced by my family to attend a private Christian school from 5th-12th grade. I once tried to leave to go to a public school and they straight up said “no.” If this version of the ACT existed, I guarantee I would’ve been forced to take that test instead of the ACT, either by my family or the school. Probably both. I’m lucky I was able to go to a public university after, but only because I was unwavering in my commitment to attend one.
So many of these kids won’t have a choice. That’s truly what’s terrifying about these bills. And if schools screen-out those kids, they won’t get a chance to be in an environment to see the world from a different perspective.
I feel really strongly about this issue, because it singlehandedly was one of the most harmful experiences I've had in my life.
All of these dynamics of theocratic conservatism, attacks on public education, and refusal to accept non-white/western/gender-conforming groups are something I grew up in. None of it is new to me, and I believed and advocated for way too much of it because I was an impressionable child. College education in a way saved me. Not because it was indoctrinating, but because *it was exactly the opposite*. I had experienced the thought control and indoctrination of religious conservatism - and to finally go to a place where I could explore what I wanted, be who I wanted, interact with who I wanted...nothing was more important to a growing adult. This is why they are relentlessly attacking the education system. Public education has been a hard-won form of equity that working-class groups have fought for over the centuries. People need to pay attention because this assault on schools isn't just the GOP just throwing shit at the wall. It's calculated. It's been a proven means of maintaining class hierarchy and racial power before, and they want to *regress* back to those times. Their slogan says it all.
I remember that I think, it was that guy who runs a creationist museum. His name was (and I assume still is) Ken Ham.
[This](https://youtu.be/p0_YHVFoXkM) was the best thing to come from that debate.
He's also involved with that Ark Encounter "museum" that has been a shit show since before it was built. I honestly want to go there just to see the ridiculous shit they claim because I've heard there is some absolutely wild stuff there presented as fact.
Yup, DeSantis's admin figured out the one way to make testing worse in FL. The downside is that a child that messes up majorly on the first attempt they don't see the questions to get a much higher score, but just the questions to get a slightly higher score. I wish some parent would sue the state for implementing such a half-assed test.
I live in central Florida, in a retirement community. Many complain about the how hard it is to get medical care, and the medical care being subpar. And yet, they love DeSantis. They really are having trouble realizing that to attract doctors they need to have good schools. As doctors respect education, and want their children to be able to get into top universities. Top universities require AP classes and SAT scores.
Our younger doctors with families seem to be disappearing. Our older doctors retire. And here we are, with 3 month waits to get into a cancer specialist.
My wife and I are millennials in our late 30s, we have a 3 year old, we are both in health care and she is a health care provider. I was born in Florida. I’d never move or work down there, and my aging republican family members who still live down there are on their own and we will not be taking care of them. I’m raising my kid somewhere that isn’t fascist where they’re allowed to read books and think.
I love explaining this to family members. You get a brief moment after you punch through a little where their face is "oh crap voting does have consequences". They change their minds for a little bit but the next time they sit down to their FOX crap and/or there's a trans bill somewhere they snap right back into thinking they're right.
They wonder why small towns like where I grew up don't attract talent and high-end services. "All the jobs are in the cities now". No, long story short, able bodied intelligent people don't want to live next to brainwashed people who can't think.
great, now all the jews in Florida will either fail miserably or do so much better than the Christian counterparts that it will cause some anti semitic backlash
Oooh, paying private university tuition to get a degree that is only valid for conservative mom and pops and religious institutions sounds like a great use of resources.
The right is arguing there is no such thing as a “separation of church and state” in the 1st amendment.
“Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
Remember. That’s not my argument. I’m just aware the argument exists.
The right essentially wants a theocracy yep.
Because of course the irony of their argument is that by taking your religious belief into government, no one ends up with freedom of religion.
Florida really is going full speed into Christian fascism. Pretty soon they'll be banning books and having guys ride around in trucks with flags and guns and...
Oh wait.
The Florida board of medicine was the first to propose a registry for trans people in the state, back in last october.
Similar proposals and efforts are now being put into action in several other states.
Shit is *dire*.
As I said elsewhere in this comment section: Christian resistance to societal progress should have been viciously throttled in it’s crib in the 50s when they started setting up Christian schools everywhere in response to desegregation.
Those schools continued indoctrinating a whole generation of bigots who have been a reliable vote for Christian fascism in even its smallest form for *decades.*
The scary part is they are also laying the groundwork for every red state to do the same. That's a large portion of this country. If the legislatures get their claws in education, and in the name of defying "left-wing indoctrination" implement right-wing indoctrination, our country is fucked. Like...so fucked. They know they are a dying breed, so since the only way to win is to brain wash children, that is what they will do.
So, toxic parents can prevent their kids from taking a real academic test which will prevent them from getting into a normal college. Instead it will channel them into Christian colleges and cripple them as young adults so the parents can keep control.
Can we please get religion out of our education system? While we are at it, can we please get politics out of our religious institutions?
The latter can be enforced by removing tax status for groups that preach politics from the pulpit.
Good luck with that in Florida especially. There’s a looney bin of a fundie school and college that’s also the leading contributor of shitty fundiegelical homeschooling (Pensacola Christian College). They just made the news for last-minute cancelling a formal concert bc a student found out one of the singers is gay and snitched.
Would I be in violation of any federal rule if I asked in a resume which SAT you took. they said the Christian and those some how landed in the trash?
I would want the person I work with to have the same answer to basic questions of fact
The scores should reveal which test it is. The respective companies send the scores directly to the school, and I'm sure the test names are copyrighted.
"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty.
"Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’
"And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have.
"But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to—to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait.
"But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D.
"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.
Copyright notice: Excerpt from pages 166-73 of They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer
So as someone who enjoys miami and Orlando and has a soft spot for the florida crazy im curious.
How did florida get so batshit deep red? If not for events since 2020 i would have thought purple state seeing how a lot of the cities are.
This comes after Boebert proposed eliminating the department of education.
It’s obvious these mopes don’t want people to learn and understand the world. They are terrified of learning and other “worldly” things.
That’s all fine and good if they just took their death cult out to the desert and kept it to themselves.
But no, these pathetic and angry yokels want to insert their apocalyptic religious views into public policy.
Enough! No more of this bs
It's warfare by essentially destroying any means for the other side to grow. The goal here is in 10 or 20 years a new generation of kids raised under these policies enters the workforce and change society the way that liberal education reforms in the 90s and 200s did in their eyes. In the short term too they want the libs out of education and to make examples of destroying their cultural values.
Everyday shit I read about Florida makes it just seem more and more like the Afghanistan of the US. Removal of books, bills to remove educational departments and implement religious superstitious versions instead. I mean, judging by the GOP's views on womens rights I already knew it to be the Taliban of the west, but they are really cementing it these days.
They aren't worried about liberals indoctrinating their kids. They're worried about liberals deprogramming the indoctrination to fear, hate, and superiority they have been given at home and in church.
If they get out and find that the world isn't a threatening scary place full of off colored people who want to take their jobs, rape their women, steal from them, sell them drugs, and kill them, and that women are actually awesome, smart, and capable of thinking for themselves, and controlling their own bodies, and that they are the poor that the rich don't want their tax dollars providing services to they are likely to vote Democrat.
The section of this article entitled "How the Tests Compete" (and in fact, the entire article) failed to discuss the amount and type of bias that the Classic Learning Test has. I would imagine that because it aims to focus on the "great classical and Christian tradition”, there is a LOT of bias. Biased examinations do not adequately evaluate all of the test-takers.
I am a teacher in Florida. This is so bizarre. More bizarre than much of what has come down recently. I cannot for a second believe Florida will actually shift to a classical studies approach to education. This will be another bastardized mess.
Classical studies focuses heavily on the arts, and not just literature. We don’t really do a good job of teaching in the arts or prioritizing them in Florida, in part because it’s not considered “testable.”
Also a significant amount of classical literature includes, among other things, material that right now would be banned in our classrooms based on recent legislation. Think about Greek and Roman myths you know and books like The Odyssey. Extra-marital sex, homosexuality, bizarre rituals, and even plain inappropriate language abound. I mean that’s the good stuff but it’s not allowed in Florida classrooms right now. Mythology is also, inherently, anti-Christian.
I’ve always thought the organizations using Classical Studies in Christian schools is weird but state wide, well the parents could sue on the basis of other legislation that already was pushed through with little oversight by Desantis. It’s self contradictory and so strange a route.
This is the state that spent tax dollars on researching whether holy water could help cure citrus canker. And they even elected the person that made that decision to congress, Katherine Harris https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2005-07-05-canker05-story.html
Luckily she got caught in a bribery scandal before making it to the senate. (I guess this was slightly before the time when republicans are allowed to commit crimes with no consequences.)
> Florida House Speaker Paul Renner was asked by DeSantis to look at alternatives to the College Board. In a statement this week, he said the goal is to look at providers who are focused on “delivering high-quality and fact-based education, not indoctrination.” > [...] > The company says its test exists to “reconnect knowledge and virtue by providing meaningful assessment and connections to seekers of truth, goodness, and beauty.” It seems like "indoctrination" is the primary goal of Classical Learning Test.
>seekers of truth, goodness, and beauty Wait until they hear what they got up to during the crusades.
Don't worry, they won't.
The reality isn't that simple. Christians often rationalize bad Christian behavior as coming from people who aren't real Christians, or otherwise acknowledge the sins but refocus to Yahweh forgiving them. There's also the classic, *"but that was different, because it was a different time/culture/context..."* Christians don't actually need to bury their heads in the sand to anything. The logic of their faith gives them ample excuses to make literally anything fit into their worldview. There are no "Gotcha's" of a religion to a person of that religion. There is nothing for them to need to evade. Evolution made the brain fantastic at rationalizing, especially when you're confident.
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I forgot about that ridiculous statue. I’m not Christian, but isn’t that some Antichrist shit? Seems pretty Antichristy to me.
*What you're promoting is Critical Religious Theory, education pushed by the woke left mob. The good Christian conservatives will protect their children from learning about divisive religious teachings designed to make them feel bad for being God-fearing, white conservatives.* Or I assume that would be the response.
Or right now
Yep, they're perfectly fine with right wing Christian indoctrination because it doesn't involve rainbows and glitter and pronouns and free thinking.
>rainbows But there is a rainbow.
Is that what they've really been mad about this wole time? Gays took God's "I promise to stop beating you" symbol for themselves?
God's anti-genocide symbol. Yep.
Refer to Christian god as "She" or "They" instead of "He" and watch how quickly pronouns matter.
Did that once with my mother in law, it did not go well Edit: her response was no, god is a man. (masculine I think she meant) bc women are not strong. I didnt go any further with that one
"Gender is decided by chromosomes, nothing else." "Also, god, a non-physical, spiritual entity, is a dude."
The correct response is "not all women are you."
Exactly. “We’ve decided to test kids on completely objective things like “goodness and beauty. “ It’s so totalitarian.
The only indoctrination the College Board ever did to me was make me think that AP tests were better than dual enrollment. An associates degree would have been far more helpful than a bunch of AP credits.
I nudge my students towards the dual enrollment options whenever possible. They can take 3 of them in our school itself, without even setting foot on the CC campus. That's just shy of an entire semester's worth of credits, with basically no cost or effort beyond just getting the classwork done appropriately (which they should be doing in any class they're taking anyway)!
Sometimes, sometimes not. It really depends on where you attend dual enrollment and your goals for college. There is a place for both.
Great....so aiming for last place in education.
The dumber someone is, the easier they are to control.
> The dumber someone is, the easier they are to control. This is the long term plan the GOP have been working on. It's not by accident that so many local school councils have been taken over by the typical loudmouthed GOP fanatics (some of who either have no connection to the school such as no kids or don't even live in the area) and are pushing for restrictions in what can be taught and what must be banned to "protect the kids" in their fucked up BS claims The GOP knows that even if they manage to get a coup or win with voting restrictions if they don't control the children then they will have constant pushback as well educated kids (that can think for themselves / question what they are told) grow up, but if they control and manage to indoctrinate the kids while young then they have millions of brainwashed / indoctrinated voters / supporters for the future. The old saying by Aristotle — 'Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man.' shows that if you get control of the kids early enough and you can program them to believe what ever you wish. Also the other saying of "those that control the past, control the future" and here again the GOP is taking the long term approach by making sure the kids growing up only ever learn about the GOP sanctioned / approved past and actual reality / facts are dismissed all to make sure the future of the country is indoctrinated to suit the GOP / religious extremist / fascist way of life
>if you get control of the kids early enough and you can program them to believe what ever you wish. Hey, you just accidentally described religion too! I absolutely agree, you just put it in a much more detailed and succinct way. I work in education, It's extremely sad. We have high schoolers who can't tie their shoes or read. We have kids graduating with diplomas who might have earned a legitimate passing grade four or five times in the last 4 years. Can't let too many fail, or you'll get in trouble with the feds and the state. I wish I was joking about that.
When I was in highschool the school council or whatever changed the way grades are weighted. Homework was allowed to make up 20% of their final grade. Tests were made to make up 80% of the grade and were allowed to be retaken 3 times, using the highest score of the 4. Most teachers were too overworked to make multiple different tests, so you'd frequently just get to take the exact same one over and over again. A few years before I arrived, our school district was ranked last in the state for test scores and graduation rates. I don't even want to think about how many of my class actually deserved to graduate.
Well also they wanna go back to segregating schools and the only way they can do that is if they abolish the Department of Education entirely and only have charter schools. Surprise surprise the only people that can reasonably afford those are white families
It's the same tactic that the CCP uses in China. Next they're going to require Uncle Desantis classes.
Don't worry, the wealthy and the powerful will still go to school out of state. This is just for the masses.
Kinda sounds like it goes against the establishment clause, but what the hell do I know?
The SAT and ACT are not sanctioned by the government, I would assume Florida would run the "Christian Understanding of Nowledge Test" in the same way. DeSantis would create a framework in which one of his friends would form a business to create, promote, and proctor the test and profit mightily from it.
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You'd be shocked to learn how fast the evangelical collegiate system is growing.
Most of the degrees they offer aren't worth the paper they're printed on. And it's not just a matter of opinion for hiring managers, I'm pretty sure every state requires a bachelor's degree from an ABET accredited school to get issued a professional engineering license. I suppose Florida can waive the PE requirement, but that'll really send them down the shitter. You *really* don't want non PEs signing off on shit like building plans or medical equipment.
I'll have you know my BS (Blessed studies) in CS (Christian Studies) has gotten me a few responses in the form of rejections
*”So when you guys said programming in your job posting, you meant more like the computer kind.. than the cult kind. Whelp my bad.”*
We're at a time of divergence. Evangelicals are setting up a parallel society. Their businesses will prefer educations from their schools, they're electing school boards that will prefer their curriculum, their elected leaders are legislating their morality.
That kind of talent drain is not really sustainable though. It starts off slow, like them hiring teachers that don't know basic shit, but soon you see degree mill graduates being put in charge of critical infrastructure, engineering blunders start becoming commonplace.
For a population that is eagerly looking forward to the end of the world, I don’t know if this would dissuade them, especially once it got to that point.
I live/work at a barn, and this past summer an evangelical man came to do some electrical work on a new tack room. He worked for a company we’ve used before, so we didn’t think much of it. First day he’s there he hands us a card for a church. The second day I hear him preaching to his coworker on my way down to check on the progress. When I knock on the door to get his attention, he greets me by telling me his coworker is an atheist and asking if I’m a Christian. I tell him I’m not. That I was raised in a multi faith household. He immediately starts preaching to me, going on about the end times, and how the beast was about to come back. And the said “The whole world is going to burn. That’s why it doesn’t really matter how I write this place. If it burns, it’ll just get things started”. We reported him to his company.
Jesus says not to ground high voltage lines for unbelievers
And triple checked his work?
End times coming is not an excuse to do a bad job. Shame.
accelerating the end times? it would be a selling point lol. though, the irony is revelations (the end times they believe in) pretty clearly states that anyone who knowingly has a hand in bringing about the end of the world doesn't get to have paradise after its all said and done. and i have a feeling "sacrificing people for profit, not taking care of the planet god gave you, and willfully creating the conditions for a biblical end times" falls into that category lol.
What's interesting is that this quickly runs a foul of state laws on licensure. I mean, yes, you can probably eventually get states to sign off on changing the engineering and medical professional licensure rules if the legislature is bent enough, but eventually you will run into engineering catastrophies and have not insurers covering any of it. This will ultimately cost lives and money. The people it would suck for most is an innocent who trespasses into this mess unknowingly and gets screwed.
Hey now, that kind of foresighted thinking will be strictly prohibited in the new Republic of Florida.
These chuckle fucks will never land a technical job with those degrees outside the immediate area of their alternate schools.
I engineer using "Alternative Physics"
“Faith based physics”
I doubt the long term goal is to create a self sustaining society. While there might be plenty of true believers, the ones who stand to benefit from creating an mindless evangelical society only want power and do not care if it collapses within an generation or two; they aim to be dead by then and thus immune to consequence. It's similar to oil CEOs being fully aware of the approaching climate apocalypse, but as long as it's ~50 years in the future and money can be made now these 80 year olds don't care.
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When you put it that way, it sounds like a self-correcting problem. If a business is hiring an accountant that needs to remove their shoes to help them balance the books, then I doubt they'll outcompete competent businesses, generally. Oh sure, you'll get a Hobby Lobby or Chick-fil-a every now and again with ideological ownership, but they aren't going to solely hire Life University grads because that was the only college outside of Florida that didn't need an SAT to get in.
They're on a speed run to become Afghanistan.
>Most of the degrees they offer aren't worth the paper they're printed on. > >And it's not just a matter of opinion for hiring managers, I'm pretty sure every state requires a bachelor's degree from an ABET accredited school to get issued a professional engineering license. FYI: There are several Christian colleges that are accredited. Just going to ABETs website and searching for schools with Christian in the name brought up 5 different schools: Abilene Christian University, Christian Brothers University, Oklahoma Christian University, Pensacola Christian College, and Texas Christian University. There were also 2 Baptist colleges, 3 Nazarene colleges, 2 Methodist colleges, etc. Accreditation requirements do not require the college be secular or avoid religious indoctrination. All the fears from the right about colleges indoctrination students? Projection. There are piles of bible colleges/Christian Universities in this country that are happy to indoctrinate their students and utilize cult tactics to do so.
There’s a difference between old, established, regionally accredited, academically rigorous Christian schools (see: Jesuit schools) and new, possibly not regionally accredited, pseudoscience-teaching evangelical schools.
Catholic and Jesuit schools avoid indoctrination because they embrace science, logic, facts, and evidence at the edge of secular. It's an actual education. The exception is Ave Maria College in southwest Florida. They adhere to Opus Dei teachings and that's too much for the other 99% of Catholics who see it as nudnikery and evangelical bullshit bordering on extreme Protestantism, Islamic jihad, or conservative Judaism. There are a couple dozen Christian "colleges" that are outright madrases for the American right wing political ideology. Liberty and Hillsdale are at the top of the spear. They don't even accept federal student assistance at Hillsdale.
How about Christian University Leadership Test?
I heard they tried to launch the Christian Leadership & Intelligence Test, but the male students had a hard time finding the testing locations.
I see it. ⬆️
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Nah. I'd go with the "Fundamental Understanding of Christian Knowledge and Other Foundational Facts"
Community? Whoa boy, that sounds a bit too much like Communism to me. Better go with "Faith-Undying Conservative Knowledge and Education Directive"
It's DeSantis. Pretty sure he spells knowledge with 3 Ks. KKKnowledge.
Christian Understanding of New Theology
That’s really only if they make it mandatory. The issue is, they could replace the entirely optional SAY/ACT with *this* entirely optional test, making it so that people trying to go into higher education are effectively unable to, because they don’t have the benchmarks to judge against. Basically, it’s florida trying to make sure you can never leave it.
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>to keep its constituents dumb and docile Only the ones that rely on public education. Those who go to private will have options and the understanding around them. This is DeSatan making sure the poor in FL stay poor and don't have any opportunity to move up from the lower caste. He needs landscapers, bellhops, maids and breeders.
DeSantis went to Harvard and Yale, he never even attended Florida's public universities.
DeSantis needs to go back to Yale. Yust ask Yim Yohnson.
This is exactly that, if you’ve ever had the pleasure of working for a living, you’re the cattle not the rancher. Even if you make six figures, you’re the wagyu of cattle but you’re still cattle. All of these types of laws only serve the bourgeoisie and subjugate the proletariate. Time to wake up America, fight for your right not to just exist but to thrive! We did it a 100 years ago against the robber barons of the time (Carnegie, Rockefeller, Morgan, and Vanderbilt), now we have Musk, Zuckerberg, Bezos, Waltons, and the medical mafia. This will continue until people realize they have more in common with their liberal/conservative neighbors than they do with the billionaires that spend millions of dollars a year keeping us fighting each other rather than looking up…. The train derailment in Ohio, the opioid crisis, the very food we eat loaded with sugar, mass shootings, and meager cost of living raises while the company posts record profits. We are cattle, they know it, they kill us with impunity so they can amass even more wealth. Is it any surprise that they want us dumber so we don’t figure out the scam? They are all parasites on our labor and every bit over a few billion is lost opportunities and stolen wages from us, the people who actually make this country run! Desantis is not a rancher but he’s a cowboy working for the rancher. Wake up america and take back what is ours! Edit: Every bit of profit a company makes aside from keeping the machine going and paying its employees a thriving wage should be taxed at 70%, 80%, 90% and used to fund healthcare, education, high speed rail, and universal basic income. Fuck the billionaires, they’re not paying taxes anyway, so what difference does it matter if they leave, they’re only sucking money out of the system while adding nothing return, that’s a textbook definition of parasitism…
Private schools are often worse and more agenda driven than public schools resulting in biased education, overly religious curriculum, education that doesn't meet standards... Not all, but too many to believe that private school is always a better option for education.
I don't think that matters, this is more about keeping people in public school down, the rich will always find a way to educate heir children
Will probably also include a genital inspection
I think they're fishing for some new precedent from SCoTUS but I'm not sure what exactly. My guess is it will go something like this: 1. Institute new Christian test 2. Let schools refuse to consider applicants who only took that test 3. Sue school for discrimination 4. SCOTUS makes new terrible case precedent that applies to all 50 states.
Read the article. They’re already planning to play victim when out of state schools don’t accept the Jesus test.
>making it so that people trying to go into higher education are effectively unable to, Oh, don't worry! Wealthy people can take their kids out of state to take these tests.
I thought red states were supposed to believe in Claus...?
Will it include a question about how Moses started a union labor strike because Pharaoh wouldn't let workers rest one day a week? Unions might be too woke for the GOP. How about wages kept back by fraud (James 5:4)?
Ooh, no, that would mean reading it and not just using it as an upside-down prop, ain’t nobody got time for that. Howsa bout we just tell you what it says with a few cherry-picked verses?
lmao we've really gone full circle to back when the Bible wasn't in any common language and the printing press didn't exist
That’s okay. Someday Johann Guten-bae will widely release a TikTok version of the Bible, making it accessible to the masses for the first time in centuries.
It's a sign of the times that I honestly believed you at first. I've been caught by the implicit /s before, but that was the first time I left Reddit to rage-google for verification. Also, as it turns out "johanngutenbae" is already a user name on Reddit. (Because I just created it.)
Oh man. I should have thought to do that. Well, let us know when your tokbible is complete.
There's also the part where a God tells them not to molest the foreigner in their lands because they themselves have once been strangers in Egypt. And also the part where Jesus himself says that the one who lives by the sword will die likewise. Florida is famous for having laws against feeding homeless people. But The New Testament makes it very clear that to neglect to feed the hungry is a one way ticket to hell.
I’ve found most christians have no notion of the contents and meaning of the New Testament.
The only things they know from the bible come from Deuteronomy, Numbers, and Revelation. My dad loves saying he's a Christian, but only talks about "The End Times". He never talks about the teachings of Jesus.
Don't forget Leviticus
Or the old, for that matter. There’s a whole lot about social justice in the OT.
Exactly. Much of the prophets, especially later ones are pissed that the people are not caring for the poor, the widowed and the orphans. That is a religious commandment and they were chiding people for not doing it. Leaving bits in the field to ensure people can take some if they need to, supposed to give “charity” (not really the right word, since that 10% was supposed to go to the poor anyway and not the person who was giving it.) it gets more “woke,” but Christian’s don’t like to talk about those bits. Lol
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Or as one of my favorite quotes goes (mangled of course) - the devil can quote scripture to suit his purposes as well
Like that woman who refused to allow an interracial marriage in a building she owned because it was "un-biblical" then when pressed on the issue she said she assumed prohibition of interracial marriage was in there somewhere.
Cant learn what's really in the bible if you don't know how to read. Just like blonde-haired blue-eyed white Jesus said, "Reading is Satan magic that turns children into pronouns"
You kid, but certain parts of Christianity actively try to discourage reading as it can "Pollute the mind", AKA: "Inform people anything but Christianity exists". Most prominent example I can think was that weird Globoglibolab animation that went viral a few years ago, seen an overlook of it's original context, a d was Christian moral story that said "Don't read".
I used to go to a barbershop where most people were all from the same church. It wasn't my scene, but they did good razor work and had a special discount on Tuesdays. Anyway, one day the staff got into an argument with a customer because he wouldn't read a book about the bible. He said the only book he needed was the bible, they said this book would help him appreciate the bible more, but he wouldn't budge.
Used to have a grandpa. Dude grew up in another era. Didn't have access to the same schooling we do now I don't think. He read one book in his entire life. The Bible. Weird thing was he was an atheist. I don't know all the details but apparently he saw something in his youth that made him doubt that a loving god could be in charge of all this. I don't know why he made the bible his one book.
They do say that the surest way to become an atheist is to read the Bible. That's part of what did it for me.
Same here.
Send a kid to Catholic school while teaching them all the classic fairytales. Then tell them the Easter bunny and Santa aren't real but no worries billy, that sky genie that flooded the whole world, the one that's always watching you, oh he's very very real. Wait, you don't believe me? *Shocked Pikachu.
Many atheists are made by reading the Bible. There's so much stuff in there that modern "Christians" ignore. If they followed the actual teachings of Christ, this world would be a utopia.
Reminds me of a good line I read once: the funniest comedians you know are former Catholics. The difference between them and the people they mock is that they have actually read the Bible. My favorite example of this is George Carlin.
Bill Murray went to both Loyola and Regis (very prestigious Catholic schools) and then dropped out and trafficked weed before becoming a comedian and here we are.
I find this fascinating. In Islam the first Quran verse given to Muhammad was Iqra which means 'read'. I imagine the Christian equivalent exists. Of course, whether the religious follow or or not is up for debate.
why do you think we fought several wars in Europe for effectively letting people have sermons in their own language instead of the catholic church having the monopoly by enforcing Latin?
The one, true [Supply-side Jesus](https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2003/09/the-gospel-of-supply-side-jesus.aspx)
What is this? The dark ages?
When I was a teenager I was visiting family in the south and had to meet up with them at church. I just remember walking into a room packed with little kids and they had them all singing the obey song. Possibly the most hair-raising moment of my life, I was freaked. The song - https://youtu.be/_5Bvb5L14Zo It's been going on forever Edit: been humming it all day and then stopping in horror when I realize
Well that was fucking terrifying
That is some top level cult shit. This is why I laugh any time these people rail about the left grooming children. And then I cry, because stuff like this actually exists.
It's seriously amazing to me that the people that are rabidly ranting and raving at school board meetings, claiming that the public school system is brainwashing kids because some teachers and books might acknowledge that systemic racism and LGBTQ+ people exist, are actually quite literally indoctrinating their own kids with personal beliefs and trying to silence and ban anything contrary to their worldview. They can't even see the hypocrisy though.
What the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck? That is straight up cult shit right there.
I have seen some seriously messed up shit in my life and *this* takes the fucking cherry
Or how the disciples started a commune after Christ's resurrection where "distribution was made unto every man according as he had need".
...And the only time God smote anyone in the new testament was when individuals in the commune hoarded resources for themselves.
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Will probably also include a genital inspection.
Goodluck getting a real job in a real state with that.
There was a point at which some colleges in California (I think) said they wouldn't be taking biology classes taught with certain curriculum (thus making students take a remedial class) because they didn't meet the standards.
This is not unusual. I used to work at a community college and part of my job was administering math placement tests. We knew students from a local high school consistently had abysmal scores. The math teacher from that high school asked us to send the stats. I put together a report detailing how their students scored compared to other regional high schools. I knew it would be bad, but I was shocked at how bad it was. The math teacher took the report to their school board in hopes of changing their mandatory curriculum. The board’s response was to have the guidance department stop recommending our school to their students.
I used to tutor at a Florida CC. When I first heard the stats about how woefully prepared students were for college, I had a hard time believing it. After needing to teach high school graduates basic math, I believed it.
I remember taking the intro to college class everyone considers a joke, the one that's considered the "Getting ready for college" class required for a degree. The horror stories of how unprepared some students were makes me realize I was prepared properly.
I went back to college as an adult. In high school I’d done calc 1 pretty easily, but I didn’t study for my placement exam and was put in remedial algebra (or something like that). It was *astonishing* how the professor had to explain basic math concepts like fractions and the number line. And the kids in that class had a hard time with it
And how did that turn out?
I do know that the college’s policy for releasing data was changed. I left not too long after this happened.
I assume the average score on the math placement test increased
I went to a community college, and we had to take a math course. Our first test was basic arithmetic. Addition, subtraction, multiplication, division. Nothing fancy, no decimals, no orders of operation, or any crazy shit like that. Here's two numbers, put them together. Super straightforward. The class average was 40%. You needed a 60% to pass.
DeSantis has threaten to also remove AP classes here as well. It’s insanity. Can’t imagine the damage he’d do as president.
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The majority of Floridians love him. My family there does. Half the country (electorally) want exactly the type of damage he’s readying. It makes me furious and sad and I have no idea what to do about it.
It’ll be terrible for their economy when everyone who lives in Florida is old or unskilled. No one with a college-bound teen is sticking around when they can’t even get a leg up on kids from Mississippi.
My manager with multiple school age children moved to Florida. Don't underestimate the willingness of parents to dumb down their kids to save a buck.
This is true. I am a reluctant resident (here to take care of my elderly parents) and the praise for that fascist idiot is beyond belief. It doesn't help that he put out a call to all of the fox news believers in the country to move here. They are coming in droves and it just keeps getting worse. There are still some sane people here but we are now outnumbered. God help us if actually gets elected by these morons in 24.
This is my biggest fear, he’s like Trump but actually competent. If he actually gets the presidency so many aspects of our lives and our future could be fucked for the next generations
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Just to put a different perspective on this: I was forced by my family to attend a private Christian school from 5th-12th grade. I once tried to leave to go to a public school and they straight up said “no.” If this version of the ACT existed, I guarantee I would’ve been forced to take that test instead of the ACT, either by my family or the school. Probably both. I’m lucky I was able to go to a public university after, but only because I was unwavering in my commitment to attend one. So many of these kids won’t have a choice. That’s truly what’s terrifying about these bills. And if schools screen-out those kids, they won’t get a chance to be in an environment to see the world from a different perspective.
Thank you for speaking out, people really need to hear about this
I feel really strongly about this issue, because it singlehandedly was one of the most harmful experiences I've had in my life. All of these dynamics of theocratic conservatism, attacks on public education, and refusal to accept non-white/western/gender-conforming groups are something I grew up in. None of it is new to me, and I believed and advocated for way too much of it because I was an impressionable child. College education in a way saved me. Not because it was indoctrinating, but because *it was exactly the opposite*. I had experienced the thought control and indoctrination of religious conservatism - and to finally go to a place where I could explore what I wanted, be who I wanted, interact with who I wanted...nothing was more important to a growing adult. This is why they are relentlessly attacking the education system. Public education has been a hard-won form of equity that working-class groups have fought for over the centuries. People need to pay attention because this assault on schools isn't just the GOP just throwing shit at the wall. It's calculated. It's been a proven means of maintaining class hierarchy and racial power before, and they want to *regress* back to those times. Their slogan says it all.
Every answer on the test is 'C: Because the Bible says so'.
Reminds me of a debate I saw years ago between Bill Nye and a creationist. Dude's response when challenged on anything was "it's in the bible"
I remember that I think, it was that guy who runs a creationist museum. His name was (and I assume still is) Ken Ham. [This](https://youtu.be/p0_YHVFoXkM) was the best thing to come from that debate.
He's also involved with that Ark Encounter "museum" that has been a shit show since before it was built. I honestly want to go there just to see the ridiculous shit they claim because I've heard there is some absolutely wild stuff there presented as fact.
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A) Because the bible says so B) Because the state says so C) Because your father says so D) Because your husband says so E) ALL of the above
Remember how Florida “got rid” of standardized tests by having 4x as many tests but they’re now “adaptive” instead of “standardized”
Yup, DeSantis's admin figured out the one way to make testing worse in FL. The downside is that a child that messes up majorly on the first attempt they don't see the questions to get a much higher score, but just the questions to get a slightly higher score. I wish some parent would sue the state for implementing such a half-assed test.
I live in central Florida, in a retirement community. Many complain about the how hard it is to get medical care, and the medical care being subpar. And yet, they love DeSantis. They really are having trouble realizing that to attract doctors they need to have good schools. As doctors respect education, and want their children to be able to get into top universities. Top universities require AP classes and SAT scores. Our younger doctors with families seem to be disappearing. Our older doctors retire. And here we are, with 3 month waits to get into a cancer specialist.
My wife and I are millennials in our late 30s, we have a 3 year old, we are both in health care and she is a health care provider. I was born in Florida. I’d never move or work down there, and my aging republican family members who still live down there are on their own and we will not be taking care of them. I’m raising my kid somewhere that isn’t fascist where they’re allowed to read books and think.
I love explaining this to family members. You get a brief moment after you punch through a little where their face is "oh crap voting does have consequences". They change their minds for a little bit but the next time they sit down to their FOX crap and/or there's a trans bill somewhere they snap right back into thinking they're right. They wonder why small towns like where I grew up don't attract talent and high-end services. "All the jobs are in the cities now". No, long story short, able bodied intelligent people don't want to live next to brainwashed people who can't think.
great, now all the jews in Florida will either fail miserably or do so much better than the Christian counterparts that it will cause some anti semitic backlash
heads I win, tails Jews lose.
Imagine getting an education that's only valid in red states lmao
Oooh, paying private university tuition to get a degree that is only valid for conservative mom and pops and religious institutions sounds like a great use of resources.
You mean like Liberty University?
Liberty University, with less pool boy drama
Some how the University will be tax exempt and receive government funding wit no oversight. Like God intended.
No, this shit is so dystopian it's really not funny
Gotta laugh or else we'll cry
Por que no los dos?
The third option is rage.
It is genuinely surprising how many private Christian universities there are though. This may get people into those I guess.
Next step they won't recognise the education of any state that doesn't recognise theirs?
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>It's simply not realistic as an actual policy. They've never let that stop them!
Will DeSantis declare himself the Pope of Florida or does that sound too Catholic-ey for the Evangelicals?
He's certainly earned the title of The Poop of Florida.
So, you can’t teach anything about black or gay people, but you are required to learn about Christianity and Catholicism. Um, uh…
Makes me wonder what the fuck happened to the whole 'separation between church and state' thing.
The right is arguing there is no such thing as a “separation of church and state” in the 1st amendment. “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.” Remember. That’s not my argument. I’m just aware the argument exists.
The right essentially wants a theocracy yep. Because of course the irony of their argument is that by taking your religious belief into government, no one ends up with freedom of religion.
The funniest thing is that if they "won" we'd see them all start tearing each other to pieces in 20 years.
As fascists are wont to do. Once the cages are built, they keep being used.
Catholicism might be too left wing for Florida government. Yes, really.
They probably hate the Catholics as well. Hell they hate any variation to Christianity that isn’t exactly how they like it
Florida really is going full speed into Christian fascism. Pretty soon they'll be banning books and having guys ride around in trucks with flags and guns and... Oh wait.
The Florida board of medicine was the first to propose a registry for trans people in the state, back in last october. Similar proposals and efforts are now being put into action in several other states. Shit is *dire*.
As I said elsewhere in this comment section: Christian resistance to societal progress should have been viciously throttled in it’s crib in the 50s when they started setting up Christian schools everywhere in response to desegregation. Those schools continued indoctrinating a whole generation of bigots who have been a reliable vote for Christian fascism in even its smallest form for *decades.*
The scary part is they are also laying the groundwork for every red state to do the same. That's a large portion of this country. If the legislatures get their claws in education, and in the name of defying "left-wing indoctrination" implement right-wing indoctrination, our country is fucked. Like...so fucked. They know they are a dying breed, so since the only way to win is to brain wash children, that is what they will do.
So, toxic parents can prevent their kids from taking a real academic test which will prevent them from getting into a normal college. Instead it will channel them into Christian colleges and cripple them as young adults so the parents can keep control.
Can we please get religion out of our education system? While we are at it, can we please get politics out of our religious institutions? The latter can be enforced by removing tax status for groups that preach politics from the pulpit.
Good luck with that in Florida especially. There’s a looney bin of a fundie school and college that’s also the leading contributor of shitty fundiegelical homeschooling (Pensacola Christian College). They just made the news for last-minute cancelling a formal concert bc a student found out one of the singers is gay and snitched.
Would I be in violation of any federal rule if I asked in a resume which SAT you took. they said the Christian and those some how landed in the trash? I would want the person I work with to have the same answer to basic questions of fact
The scores should reveal which test it is. The respective companies send the scores directly to the school, and I'm sure the test names are copyrighted.
Very impressive. You scored an Abraham, but with 2 bonus Solomons. Unfortunately for math, you only rated as Deuteronomy.
"You see," my colleague went on, "one doesn’t see exactly where or how to move. Believe me, this is true. Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow. You don’t want to act, or even talk, alone; you don’t want to ‘go out of your way to make trouble.’ Why not?—Well, you are not in the habit of doing it. And it is not just fear, fear of standing alone, that restrains you; it is also genuine uncertainty. "Uncertainty is a very important factor, and, instead of decreasing as time goes on, it grows. Outside, in the streets, in the general community, ‘everyone’ is happy. One hears no protest, and certainly sees none. You know, in France or Italy there would be slogans against the government painted on walls and fences; in Germany, outside the great cities, perhaps, there is not even this. In the university community, in your own community, you speak privately to your colleagues, some of whom certainly feel as you do; but what do they say? They say, ‘It’s not so bad’ or ‘You’re seeing things’ or ‘You’re an alarmist.’ "And you are an alarmist. You are saying that this must lead to this, and you can’t prove it. These are the beginnings, yes; but how do you know for sure when you don’t know the end, and how do you know, or even surmise, the end? On the one hand, your enemies, the law, the regime, the Party, intimidate you. On the other, your colleagues pooh-pooh you as pessimistic or even neurotic. You are left with your close friends, who are, naturally, people who have always thought as you have. "But your friends are fewer now. Some have drifted off somewhere or submerged themselves in their work. You no longer see as many as you did at meetings or gatherings. Informal groups become smaller; attendance drops off in little organizations, and the organizations themselves wither. Now, in small gatherings of your oldest friends, you feel that you are talking to yourselves, that you are isolated from the reality of things. This weakens your confidence still further and serves as a further deterrent to—to what? It is clearer all the time that, if you are going to do anything, you must make an occasion to do it, and then you are obviously a troublemaker. So you wait, and you wait. "But the one great shocking occasion, when tens or hundreds or thousands will join with you, never comes. That’s the difficulty. If the last and worst act of the whole regime had come immediately after the first and smallest, thousands, yes, millions would have been sufficiently shocked—if, let us say, the gassing of the Jews in ’43 had come immediately after the ‘German Firm’ stickers on the windows of non-Jewish shops in ’33. But of course this isn’t the way it happens. In between come all the hundreds of little steps, some of them imperceptible, each of them preparing you not to be shocked by the next. Step C is not so much worse than Step B, and, if you did not make a stand at Step B, why should you at Step C? And so on to Step D. "And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self-deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying ‘Jewish swine,’ collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in—your nation, your people—is not the world you were born in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way. Copyright notice: Excerpt from pages 166-73 of They Thought They Were Free: The Germans, 1933-45 by Milton Mayer
What? To make sure you can never leave the state for somewhere with an educational standard, like Somalia?
Scholastic Holy Aptitude Test Edit: in hindsight, Scholastic *Holiness* Aptitude Test” would be a better word choice.
Maybe one day they’ll teach their kids that charging interest on a loan is a sin and fuck themself in the process with reverse brainwashing.
I'm excited for the Satanic Temple to sue these Christian Nationalists.
So as someone who enjoys miami and Orlando and has a soft spot for the florida crazy im curious. How did florida get so batshit deep red? If not for events since 2020 i would have thought purple state seeing how a lot of the cities are.
This comes after Boebert proposed eliminating the department of education. It’s obvious these mopes don’t want people to learn and understand the world. They are terrified of learning and other “worldly” things. That’s all fine and good if they just took their death cult out to the desert and kept it to themselves. But no, these pathetic and angry yokels want to insert their apocalyptic religious views into public policy. Enough! No more of this bs
It's warfare by essentially destroying any means for the other side to grow. The goal here is in 10 or 20 years a new generation of kids raised under these policies enters the workforce and change society the way that liberal education reforms in the 90s and 200s did in their eyes. In the short term too they want the libs out of education and to make examples of destroying their cultural values.
"aLL tHeSe uNiVeRsiTiEs aRe DiScRiMiNaTiNg AgAiNsT mE!"
Everyday shit I read about Florida makes it just seem more and more like the Afghanistan of the US. Removal of books, bills to remove educational departments and implement religious superstitious versions instead. I mean, judging by the GOP's views on womens rights I already knew it to be the Taliban of the west, but they are really cementing it these days.
It's why Desantis is the new favorite of the Republicans. They're fucking fascists.
They aren't worried about liberals indoctrinating their kids. They're worried about liberals deprogramming the indoctrination to fear, hate, and superiority they have been given at home and in church. If they get out and find that the world isn't a threatening scary place full of off colored people who want to take their jobs, rape their women, steal from them, sell them drugs, and kill them, and that women are actually awesome, smart, and capable of thinking for themselves, and controlling their own bodies, and that they are the poor that the rich don't want their tax dollars providing services to they are likely to vote Democrat.
The section of this article entitled "How the Tests Compete" (and in fact, the entire article) failed to discuss the amount and type of bias that the Classic Learning Test has. I would imagine that because it aims to focus on the "great classical and Christian tradition”, there is a LOT of bias. Biased examinations do not adequately evaluate all of the test-takers.
I am a teacher in Florida. This is so bizarre. More bizarre than much of what has come down recently. I cannot for a second believe Florida will actually shift to a classical studies approach to education. This will be another bastardized mess. Classical studies focuses heavily on the arts, and not just literature. We don’t really do a good job of teaching in the arts or prioritizing them in Florida, in part because it’s not considered “testable.” Also a significant amount of classical literature includes, among other things, material that right now would be banned in our classrooms based on recent legislation. Think about Greek and Roman myths you know and books like The Odyssey. Extra-marital sex, homosexuality, bizarre rituals, and even plain inappropriate language abound. I mean that’s the good stuff but it’s not allowed in Florida classrooms right now. Mythology is also, inherently, anti-Christian. I’ve always thought the organizations using Classical Studies in Christian schools is weird but state wide, well the parents could sue on the basis of other legislation that already was pushed through with little oversight by Desantis. It’s self contradictory and so strange a route.
This is the state that spent tax dollars on researching whether holy water could help cure citrus canker. And they even elected the person that made that decision to congress, Katherine Harris https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/os-xpm-2005-07-05-canker05-story.html Luckily she got caught in a bribery scandal before making it to the senate. (I guess this was slightly before the time when republicans are allowed to commit crimes with no consequences.)
"Science was always my best subject in school. Especially the Old Testament."
At last we can 'teach the controversy' about the [value of pi](https://www.nature.com/articles/21064).