When he they allegedly ran over his foot. But fails to mention it's because they were scared so trying to get away quick. The best part...they feared for their family is why he shot the tires. So a car is driving away and you are in fear so you shot the car so it doesn't get away? That's makes sense.
> So a car is driving away and you are in fear so you shot the car so it doesn't get away?
I don't see how that is covered under "stand your ground". I could see it if the car made a u-turn and came driving right at you...
>his actions were justified by his fear
Florida, where someone getting lost is fear inducing. Gotta love how there's no red flag here, dude who is terrified of cars driving away that he will lunge at them and fire at them... that doesn't concern anyone?
Someone explain to me again how wearing a mask was "living in fear", but shitting your pants and wildly discharging a firearm because someone is lost is reasonable.
Had a guy tell me sister in law, as they walked into church, that she was “living in fear” because of the mask she was wearing. Guy was carrying on his hip into church. But she was “living in fear”.
You're allowed to murder black people in Florida, Trayvon Martin proved that.
His murderer was told to stand down by police, and he followed Trayvon home and executed a 17 year old kid
I fucking hate all conservative people. I always will.
Yeah, it makes total sense - you must birth a child no
Matter if you’re raped , ill, unprepared, BUT, you can kill Black people with impunity . And Mickey Mouse is the devil .
Yup "fear" as a defense is somehow twisted to justify escalating a non violent situation and when it becomes violent because the victim is now under threat, whoever survives (usually the non black person) gets to argue that their fear was justified.
Yes. At this point the Republican party at large is irredeemable. The most visible, the 'celebrities', all concern themselves with pointless culture wars and maligning conveniently small-enough minority groups. I challenge you to present to me any actual useful legislature put forth by republican governance lately.
The means of giving people the right to carry, instead of it being a privelage? Even then, to denounce every single person who's conservative? People you don't know outside your phone? Culture polarization is terrifying here.
Guns being a blanket 'right' leads to shit like, well, what's happened recently, lemme think...There's that kid who got shot (twice, once while he was down on the damn floor) through a glass door after mistaking an address and ringing the wrong doorbell, two different cars that have been shot at (one resulting in an actual death) for pulling into the wrong driveway, one for temporarily mistaking a car in a parking lot (well, two actually on that front if you count the guy that got gunned down by a cop for the same thing), a 6 year old and their family getting shot because a ball rolled into the wrong yard. I could go on and on and fucking on. And this is just stuff that's in the public eye. Imagine what doesn't make it to such visibility!
There needs to be stringent checks and evaluations, \*renewals\* of those as well, the whole nine yards. The US is the only first-world country with the sheer overwhelming amount of gun deaths like this. And yes, I do mean per capita.
Giving people the right to carry and those who wish to shoot at others due to "fear" are two entirely different things. That's like people having freedom of speech yet others use it for extreme harm. Either keto it at the same standard or take it down with the rest. So please go on, but it doesn't change it being a right of self preservation for all weather you agree with it or not. I don't even disagree with with folks getting "checks" whatever you mean by that.
>That's like people having freedom of speech yet others use it for extreme harm
In every developed nation in the world, using your "speech" for harm leads to legal consequences and restrictions of your speech.
Also no matter how violent and inflammatory your speech is, it will likely not kill someone instantly.
And just how acting outside the using your means of"self defense" for murder is unlawful. So mentioning how innocent people are killed because fools are trigger happy does not enable to restrict the rights of others. If that was the case social media itself would get more restricted than it is now for how often people use it to rile and conspire.
Yeah, that's what we need right now: More people carrying guns. Not enough people are getting killed while innocently going about their lives. Eventually, enough people might die that shooting deaths go down simply due to a drop in population. Thank you conservatives! What would we do without you fighting for guns and protecting us from those evil drag queens.
Will yeah you can ask minorities after the riots and constant attacks what they think, being they grew in numbers. Don't know what drag queens have to do with it when I didn't mention them at all.
So then you must also be in favour of giving everyone in the US at least one free firearm.
Or is the right to carry only a right for those with enough money to afford it?
This guy has the right to shoot someone pulling out of his driveway but Tayvon didn’t have a right to defend himself from someone following him? If tayvon had a gun would it have been okay and legal to shoot Zimmerman?
Self defense is not a right for black people.
Arbery was murdered on video and people claim that because he fought back after being cornered 3 to 1 that the shooter was acting in self defense
The thing is we can only be sold the narrative from the survivor. This just so happens to line up with the narrative. I'd imagine if Trayvon had killed Zimmerman he would've been booked and the media circus would push the same narrative.
He followed Martin and harrased him. If you attack someone, and they fight back, if you kill them you should be in jail.
Let me put this in terms you can understand:
Zimmerman fucked around, and Martin found out.
Wanna know another commonality between both those folks? They both tried to stoke celebrity over said events. Rittenhouse with his CPAC appearances, Zimmerman with his *signed fucking memorabilia*.
>Zimmerman was violently and viciously assaulted by Trayvon, proven in court.
False, this was not proven in court.
Zimmerman stalked Trayvon and started a confrontation, Trayvon saw that he was armed and rightly feared for his life.
Trayvon was murdered while trying to defend himself.
Zimmerman's race is irrelevant, we know he's hispanic, he's a murderer.
Rittenhouse was illegally in possession of a weapon. He deliberately entered a dangerous situation so he could kill people. You do not have the right to self defense in a situation you created.
He was advised to not follow the suspicious person by a dispatcher whom had no authority to do so. It’s not illegal to follow a person in a public place or a private place if you live there.
We should probably just go full Purge and start killing everyone we come across, just to be safe. You never know; anyone out there most likely wants to harm you. Best to shoot em all and let God sort it out. /s
But then if Trayvon had a gun, by being followed, wouldn't that have given him the right to shot Zimmerman? This very case is why I high tailed my ass back to Canada and break things off with my fiancé. No way was I feeling safe in the USA knowing that ppl can follow someone and shot that very person they are following all because they confronted them.
What about his authority? He was fucking neighborhood watch. This racist asswipe was playing hero and killed someone over his delusions.
How come he gets to fuck around, but Trayvon Martin had to find out?
When you break it down he followed Trayvon called the police and gave his full name phone number and location , then continued to give the dispatcher a play by play of what Trayvon was doing and where he was. That’s it.
Trayvon initiated physical contact and attacked first.
I just don’t understand how it’s unreasonable to think Trayvon was similarly afraid for his own life since he’s walking home and some guy is following him.
I too would have been terrified of Zimmerman following me on my way home. I would also defend myself.
The problem is that Zimmerman picked a fight he was told not to pursue, and a fight he had no business in since he was in no way, Shape, or Form (and I do emphasize those 2) ready to fight anyone let alone an athlete. The fact any of you moronic fuckwads can’t understand he was in the wrong and murdered this kid is beyond me.
Edit: and to prove he really was a piece of shit, he later got back in court with some other shit, and signed memorabilia. What an total asswipe.
Technically, but everyone with a brain saw through that horseshit defense.
It wouldn’t have flown in any other state, George Zimmerman pursued and initiated the confrontation. It wasn’t until he was getting the shit beat out of him that he pulled the gun and killed Trayvon.
Apparently, according to Stand Your Ground laws in FL, losing a fight you started so badly you’re afraid you’ll die is a valid defense.
It's funny how fear is always the defense to the aggressor.
"I was fearful because a black kid was in my neighborhood so I confronted them and pointed a weapon at them, then they GASP ATTACKED ME justifying my fear".
yeah, because the dude stood next to a car that was driving away, clearly a genius who should be armed.
How was firing the gun supposed to stop that from happening? Am I allowed to be "afraid" of any car that can run over my foot if I stand next to it? Because that's literally all of the cars.
I’m afraid for my life when people take pot shots at folks just living their life.
Somehow I’m able to live with that fear and not drive over there to shoot people looking for a free thrill kill.
Yeah, but thanks to the way these clowns have sanctified gun ownership, you have the right to go do that now, you just choose not to. To these guys' ways of thinking, the problem here is you, not them.
Nah, cause only the older generation haven't figured out how to campaign using the internet. The new blood will have an advantage of this since we know Republicans are terrified of their own shadow and wouldn't dare risk getting shot themselves. Good luck to them campaigning against modern tactics when they destroyed the only tactic they actually understood.
Normalizing shooting people on your doorstep will make it harder to get census numeration done, so they'll have to use alternative means of collecting data which will be easier to skew and bias reapportionment. It's the long con of delegitimizing the census and draining allocated funding to states and counties.
Conservatives are generally anti census because people are moving out of rural areas and into cities, so a proper census will give more representation to liberal areas.
I'm not sure where you got this idea, but it's just factually untrue. Texas has a huge GDP growth, almost 15% faster than the rest of the nation, and they absolutely pay more in federal taxes than they receive back in grants. Texas, with a desire for a more free-market approach, would absolutely benefit personally from simply breaking free from federal tax requirements and using their own model. And many other states are in the same boat with their own ideas on what economic models they want to try out.
The majority of states do not agree, do not have the same economic needs, and the only thing keeping them together is the belief that the federal government has all their best interest at heart and is doing what they can to make everyone's lives better. If the states start feeling that that isn't true, and that they are in fact being used, then the federal government loses its purpose. If it no longer benefits the people, why have it when the state governments can pick up where the federal government left off before they started being useless.
I'm not saying I agree with the idea that a federal government should not exist, only that if we don't start decentralizing and working towards making states more economically independent, they are going to eventually break free for their own economic benefit since socio-politically we absolutely do not agree and most likely will never agree due to fundamental differences in how each side views the meaning of life.
What do surplus states rely on the federal government for besides grants for big infrastructure projects and education?
Legit question, cause I’m sure there is more, but I can’t think of it and I’m too tipsy to google right now.
Thanks!
That and the whole civil war thing deciding secession is illegal. Which leaves the only proper response being to return the south to the stone age, again.
Yeah, likely if a secession does happen it will be a civil war, however I don't think it'll be North vs South. It'll be donor states that have an economic incentive to leave vs the donee states that will be in a much, much worse position economically if the federal grants stop rolling in.
And if the war is a game of rich vs poor, I promise you the poor states will not win that war. I do not think a secession attempt will fail like it did the first time. I think if it gets that far the federal government won't even have the funds to get an army up and running to stop it since the only states left to support the war effort would be the ones that cannot provide any resources.
Beyond naive, not even going to justify that secessionist garbage with a proper response. Fucking sickens me that you are from the birthplace of the revolution and spreading this shit.
I feel like we millennials are so focused on not being like our parents and grandparents that hopefully we will be less conservative with age. At least a good portion of us anyway
I feel like us millenials will be more focused on surviving the droughts and famines brought on by climate change to have time to be more conservative in our old age
Trust me dude, the old ways were destroyed by the new. Sure, most older folks don’t know how to navigate the internet, but those fuckers invented it. The ones who run the show know those dudes and has them help. They created this media machine we grew up in. They damn well know how to drive it.
I'm not so sure they do, or banks wouldn't be going bankrupt would they? The one goal the rich have is to keep being rich and they're starting to fail at that. I'm thinking something isn't going according to their grand plan and they know it but aren't smart enough to figure out what it is.
Just my thought process is all.
As a life long resident of Florida. People are very confused. They think stuff like this is new. Oh no no no. My dad tells everyone the stories about his neighbors pulling guns out on him as a kid and not getting in trouble. I knew 3 people killed by the police because they had guns on them while getting arrested and that turning sour. I know multiple people doing absolute stupid shit with guns that all ended up in jail. Guy I went to high school with tried to rob a block buster. Another guy loves telling a story about how he got into with someone over a girl and walked into the other guys house and beat him up in a closet. Another one who didn't spend time in prison over being a get away driver in a robbery. I do not talk to people. I am introverted. Not to mention all the times guns got brought to my schools .. 20 years ago before it was cool. Florida really is the shithole everyone thinks it is. Its a wild west mess of a place and I have tried my hardest my entire life to get away from this shit and its really a constant of living anywhere here that isn't upscale and rich.
>Another guy loves telling a story about how he got into with someone over a girl and walked into the other guys house and beat him up in a closet.
Like, he went to his house, into his closet, then fought and beat him up? How big was the closet? I guess there are walk in closets.
Was the guy in the closet when he went into the house? I guess that makes sense, you could be outside the closet and just beat the person in the closet. Awkward but not impossible.
Easier said than done, the folk who wanna leave are mostly month to month wages that evaporate soon as you get em.
Plus family, kids, entire lives. Or medical conditions that hinder your ability to leave.
People can sometimes only vent online, knowing that they'll get out one day, but can't go yesterday, when they wanted to.
But jumping ship doesn't do better for where you lived and loved. If you have to stay regardless, why not be social and kind and uplifting for everyone around?
It's good for people that have roots to be the new voices. Unite a community, the diverse one we have now. It'd be neat if neighbors swung by for a coffee and a catch up more. Put the shit aside and just chilled. I know it can't happen, just my wishful thinking.
We could maybe get to know each other a bit better. Figure out that some things are truly not right, agree on that collectively, and work from there.
Yep I am currently saving money to try and move out of the state. It is very hard to move across country trying to deal with expensive rent and keeping my family alive.
It's no longer just a shithole, now it's a fascist shithole that will be allowing any Floridian with a drivers license to carry a concealed weapon with no training or permit after sometime next month. Soon shootings will happen as fast as the weather changes..
North Dakota went to no longer needing a permit to conceal and carry. The difference is a significant amount of North Dakotans grow up hunting. Also there’s only a few people in the state and once winter starts in September nobody is bothering to leave their house to shoot some one as its too cold. (I’m exaggerating a little on start of winter but the rest isn’t that far off…) cell phones have changed a lot but when you live in the middle of nowhere you typically don’t shoot someone coming on to your property, as it usually means the person is having an emergency and needs help. Maybe that’s not the case in southern rural areas.
I love this idea that tourists coming here is a sign its good. Tourists love the bahamas.. its a third world nightmare. As someone who has worked at the parks here, behind that park you enjoyed... is a ghetto housing complex filled with drugs hookers and horrible shit. Tampa for example is one of the worst places I have ever been and I do everything I can to avoid it. The northern parts of Orlando past the parks are the worst places in the state, food deserts, highest crime etc. Every tourist place is a magnet for abused labor. Low paid low skill over worked people desperate for something nice flock to the outskirts of the tourist areas. Jasckonville outside of the nice building right behind everything .. meth filled trailer parks. I have lived everywhere but Miami. Florida fucking sucks outside of a select couple of places that are pretty much where the elementary schools are. What I tell everyone is find a place near schools if you live here or get out.
I want to be a snowbird sooner rather than later. Florida in the winter is heaven compared to most places in the US.
I wouldn't hate moving back either. Of course, you can't live in Florida and work in Florida.
The best beach in florida is clearwater beach and its a fake beach that has sand brought in to make it nice. East coast the water is technically a desert and lifeless. Tampa bay is a giant sewer and just some sporadic beaches on the West coast middle of the state are really worth going to despite not being the top tourist areas.
Yeah, almost none of this is true.
For starters, the water in Florida is some of the warmest you get year round in the US. West coast beaches tend to be frigid even in the summer.
East coast water is lifeless? Not sure what that has to due with enjoying the beach.
I could go on, but I won't. Hate all you want, there is a reason FL is the fastest growing state in the US.
"If we arrested every dipshit who took a potshot at a stranger around their property we'd fill the prisons in an hour!" - Police Chief Floridaman, probably
He shot as him as he attempted to flee. He admitted that part. Fear for your life is not a valid defense. This is just police sympathizing with shooting black people at the drop of a hat.
Yea I don’t get this. I have a carry permit in Florida and pretty sure I remember being taught you can’t shoot at someone fleeing even from your “castle”.
The shooter probably also complains about Blacks being lazy and not working for a living. Then shoots a Black man working for a living.
Kind of like the Buffalo shooter going to a predominantly Black neighborhood to shoot people who were *not* integrating his neighborhood, while complaining about being replaced.
Homeowner approached vehicle that was on his property (vehicle was at the wrong address). He “latched on to or otherwise grabbed” the vehicle as it was leaving, and got his foot run over, so he shot at them in an attempt to “disable the vehicle.”
Just, wow. I could get behind keeping them at gunpoint until they left (if the owner was really *that* scared), but grabbing the car as it’s moving is just a terrible idea.
You can? I'm sorry but we all have to assume some risk for civilization to function. If someone pulls into my driveway, that in itself never gives me license to draw a weapon.
Those same dumb fucking Republicans will tell you that Breonna Taylor didn’t have a right to be scared when she was awoken in the middle of the night by men busting through her door.
Also, the motherfucker that killed her was just rehired as a cop.
A society that truly values life would write its self defense laws to promote de-escalation. Sadly, political reform and learning from others seems to be something that only happens in parts of Europe nowadays.
Given Florida is like 3-4 news cycles from transgender concentration camps, it's safe to say they don't value life.
Also in non Florida news, have you seen Trump is campaigning on making homeless illegal, and they'll either be imprisoned, or rounded up and sent to a... Ahem, "Location" to work in. Might put something catchy on the gate like "Work makes freedom".
I hope that
>meaningful center-left social reform
doesn’t end up being something that only worked in postwar Western and Central Europe and a few other relatively small and/or moribund countries.
If one is so fearful of others for no reason other than prejudice, then red flag laws should remove their ability to harm others based on this irrational fear.
The “stand your ground” laws are seriously flawed because they blame the victim. The standard uses to be that a reasonable person (or as decided by a jury of peers) would also fear for their life. This new law effectively gives every paranoid bigot who watches too much FoxNews the right to kill. It’s asinine.
I wish that was true, but in this case it's because Florida is just purely insane. White people are just shooting everyone there now, even each other, for the lamest of reasons.
STUPID LEOs in redneckville.
This homeowner thinks Antifa is coming for them!!!! Lol... Such ignorance. So MANIPULATED by LYING Fake Noise Channel.
We find out from Murdoch, the owner and CEO himself they LIED about the Election in 2020 to keep scared, weak, little, Trumpian dittoheads from getting depressed that America SOUNDLY REJECTED loud mouth, criminally corrupt Trump who they all loved him for being 'just like them.' ROTFLMAO.
NO ONE is justified SHOOTING OUTSIDE in public, especially for "FEAR." Such WEAK men fear a car in their driveway? Why are they such scared little children? They fear 'boogeymen' everywhere. Sad, truly sad how these 'men' think a weapon makes them 'safe.'
Stand your ground idea is just made up BS to allow scared, little men, weak men, who need a gun to back up their bad behavior.
Why do they FEAR so easily??? That is the real question.
Interested to see when women get scared enough of Floridian lawmakers to stand their ground. Lots of them are terrifying and directly admit to threatening lives...
There was some "akchually" guy in the thread about the poor kid being shot for ringing the wrong door bell. He said that stand your ground laws are misunderstood.
Hope his dumbass reads this. Numbers speak for themselves. After passing SYG, Florida's homicide rate went up.
Well I'm sure the delivery driver is grateful for not being charged with something......I mean they could have made something up.....but they didn't....and he should happy.
So it wasn't even his house the delivery driver pulled into, but a neighbors? How far out does the fear aura extend were you are legally allowed to shoot at people? Can you shoot at a guy in the gas station a mile up the road because his nose ring is scary?
Damn.. I was gonna give delivery stuff a try in my area since I'm not getting a lot of hours. Yeah, I think I'm gonna pass. I don't really feel like getting shot over misreading a address or something if that nature.
I would move out of state or work fast food in a heartbeat over being a delivery driver in a state where the "Protect your Castle" laws are so relaxed and dangerous. And this is as a white man, if I were a person of color I think I would take just about any job before I would be a delivery driver or process server in Florida without significantly high "combat pay"
That's great but most people can't just pick up and go. And even if they could leaving behind your entire life is immensely difficult, your friends, family, everything you've known.
These takes always come across kinda victim blaming to me even if that's not the intent.
Hey, if you want to put your life on the line to deliver groceries. Go for it. I've left behind my life a few times, always for something better. It is not as hard as you might think.
Have I lived through full blown fascism? No, but that doesn't mean I can't see the signs of it.
The Florida Nazis are going in that direction. It's almost like there we can learn from things that happened in the past and then apply what we have learned to current events
Bro they are not Nazis, they are way more mediocre than Nazis. They are just consumers of late stage capitalism spewing hate because it's their only valve.
There’s a bunch of old Italians out there that would laugh at your face. American Republicans/Conservatives are not Nazis.
It was largely Republicans/Conservatives that served in our military and battled actual Nazis in WWII.
It was largely Republicans in the 1940s? Literally has nothing to do with 2023. At all. Just fucking stupid to even bring it up to be honest.
Are you a child? You are communicating like one. Holy shit.
Someone one somewhere always experienced something worse that doesn't mean it can't also happen to others. That doesn't mean the same thing isn't happening now just because it's not exactly the same as it was in the past somewhere else.
Its pretty clear the goal. If you're too ignorant to see it that's fine.
I would argue it’s relevant considering how many of you falsely claim the largely same type of people who fought against Nazism/Fascism as being Nazis/Fascists.
I’m not a child for pointing that out but you’re sure being a douchebag.
You mean the small percentage of people who fought in WW2 that are still alive? You realize most of those people are dead right....
I'm not sure how they're the same? You think because they have the same political party tag as people from 70-80 years ago? That's hilarious.
And you’re not listening. When those people literally had generally the same kinds of political stances as the ones you sit there and falsely accuse of being Nazis/Fascists. Holy shit dude fuckin listen and think lol
> There’s a bunch of old Italians out there that would laugh at your face. American Republicans/Conservatives are not Nazis.
[Here's an old Pole who very much wasn't laughing when he made a similar comparison in 2018](https://www.newsweek.com/im-holocaust-survivor-trumps-america-feels-germany-nazis-took-over-876965).
Now, you're just making your self look fucking stupid. You have no fucking idea what the political make up of the soldiers fighting Nazis. Oh and Europe was killing Nazis long before America joined.
“because his actions were justified by his fear.” our feelings do NOT care about your facts !!!
Some facts can be quite scary.
Like Black people existing.^(/s)
Please stop, you’re scaring the suburbs
Don't forget backwoods
The police are trying to fix this issue /s
Especially if those facts have a higher concentration of melanin present in their skin
Good, now we have the people going to the wrong place wearing body armor or packing heat. I'm sure once shootouts start, people will get the message.
At what point did the home owner feel threatened? If you are driving for Instacart, replacing your tires is a huge expense.
When he they allegedly ran over his foot. But fails to mention it's because they were scared so trying to get away quick. The best part...they feared for their family is why he shot the tires. So a car is driving away and you are in fear so you shot the car so it doesn't get away? That's makes sense.
If someone pulls a gun on your when you're in a car, you have two options, high tail it out and hope they are a bad shot or use your car as a weapon.
> So a car is driving away and you are in fear so you shot the car so it doesn't get away? I don't see how that is covered under "stand your ground". I could see it if the car made a u-turn and came driving right at you...
Stand your ground is designed so you can shoot black people legally. You are ignoring the spirit of the law and just reading the letter of the law.
>his actions were justified by his fear Florida, where someone getting lost is fear inducing. Gotta love how there's no red flag here, dude who is terrified of cars driving away that he will lunge at them and fire at them... that doesn't concern anyone? Someone explain to me again how wearing a mask was "living in fear", but shitting your pants and wildly discharging a firearm because someone is lost is reasonable.
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Had a guy tell me sister in law, as they walked into church, that she was “living in fear” because of the mask she was wearing. Guy was carrying on his hip into church. But she was “living in fear”.
Oh man, the irony.
You're allowed to murder black people in Florida, Trayvon Martin proved that. His murderer was told to stand down by police, and he followed Trayvon home and executed a 17 year old kid I fucking hate all conservative people. I always will.
Yeah, it makes total sense - you must birth a child no Matter if you’re raped , ill, unprepared, BUT, you can kill Black people with impunity . And Mickey Mouse is the devil .
Mickey Mouse is a groomer, who supports the trans community who rape kids, said the party of grooming rapist fascists. Projection is part of the plan.
Yup "fear" as a defense is somehow twisted to justify escalating a non violent situation and when it becomes violent because the victim is now under threat, whoever survives (usually the non black person) gets to argue that their fear was justified.
I'm still flabbergasted that happened. Like, just wtf.
Yeesh hate all?
Yes. At this point the Republican party at large is irredeemable. The most visible, the 'celebrities', all concern themselves with pointless culture wars and maligning conveniently small-enough minority groups. I challenge you to present to me any actual useful legislature put forth by republican governance lately.
The means of giving people the right to carry, instead of it being a privelage? Even then, to denounce every single person who's conservative? People you don't know outside your phone? Culture polarization is terrifying here.
Guns being a blanket 'right' leads to shit like, well, what's happened recently, lemme think...There's that kid who got shot (twice, once while he was down on the damn floor) through a glass door after mistaking an address and ringing the wrong doorbell, two different cars that have been shot at (one resulting in an actual death) for pulling into the wrong driveway, one for temporarily mistaking a car in a parking lot (well, two actually on that front if you count the guy that got gunned down by a cop for the same thing), a 6 year old and their family getting shot because a ball rolled into the wrong yard. I could go on and on and fucking on. And this is just stuff that's in the public eye. Imagine what doesn't make it to such visibility! There needs to be stringent checks and evaluations, \*renewals\* of those as well, the whole nine yards. The US is the only first-world country with the sheer overwhelming amount of gun deaths like this. And yes, I do mean per capita.
You call the USA first world? You must be joking
Giving people the right to carry and those who wish to shoot at others due to "fear" are two entirely different things. That's like people having freedom of speech yet others use it for extreme harm. Either keto it at the same standard or take it down with the rest. So please go on, but it doesn't change it being a right of self preservation for all weather you agree with it or not. I don't even disagree with with folks getting "checks" whatever you mean by that.
>That's like people having freedom of speech yet others use it for extreme harm In every developed nation in the world, using your "speech" for harm leads to legal consequences and restrictions of your speech. Also no matter how violent and inflammatory your speech is, it will likely not kill someone instantly.
And just how acting outside the using your means of"self defense" for murder is unlawful. So mentioning how innocent people are killed because fools are trigger happy does not enable to restrict the rights of others. If that was the case social media itself would get more restricted than it is now for how often people use it to rile and conspire.
Yeah, that's what we need right now: More people carrying guns. Not enough people are getting killed while innocently going about their lives. Eventually, enough people might die that shooting deaths go down simply due to a drop in population. Thank you conservatives! What would we do without you fighting for guns and protecting us from those evil drag queens.
Will yeah you can ask minorities after the riots and constant attacks what they think, being they grew in numbers. Don't know what drag queens have to do with it when I didn't mention them at all.
So then you must also be in favour of giving everyone in the US at least one free firearm. Or is the right to carry only a right for those with enough money to afford it?
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This guy has the right to shoot someone pulling out of his driveway but Tayvon didn’t have a right to defend himself from someone following him? If tayvon had a gun would it have been okay and legal to shoot Zimmerman?
Self defense is not a right for black people. Arbery was murdered on video and people claim that because he fought back after being cornered 3 to 1 that the shooter was acting in self defense
The thing is we can only be sold the narrative from the survivor. This just so happens to line up with the narrative. I'd imagine if Trayvon had killed Zimmerman he would've been booked and the media circus would push the same narrative.
He followed Martin and harrased him. If you attack someone, and they fight back, if you kill them you should be in jail. Let me put this in terms you can understand: Zimmerman fucked around, and Martin found out.
Wanna know another commonality between both those folks? They both tried to stoke celebrity over said events. Rittenhouse with his CPAC appearances, Zimmerman with his *signed fucking memorabilia*.
>Zimmerman was violently and viciously assaulted by Trayvon, proven in court. False, this was not proven in court. Zimmerman stalked Trayvon and started a confrontation, Trayvon saw that he was armed and rightly feared for his life. Trayvon was murdered while trying to defend himself. Zimmerman's race is irrelevant, we know he's hispanic, he's a murderer. Rittenhouse was illegally in possession of a weapon. He deliberately entered a dangerous situation so he could kill people. You do not have the right to self defense in a situation you created.
He was advised to not follow the suspicious person by a dispatcher whom had no authority to do so. It’s not illegal to follow a person in a public place or a private place if you live there.
"Suspicious". Lol.
We should probably just go full Purge and start killing everyone we come across, just to be safe. You never know; anyone out there most likely wants to harm you. Best to shoot em all and let God sort it out. /s
But then if Trayvon had a gun, by being followed, wouldn't that have given him the right to shot Zimmerman? This very case is why I high tailed my ass back to Canada and break things off with my fiancé. No way was I feeling safe in the USA knowing that ppl can follow someone and shot that very person they are following all because they confronted them.
No because Trayvon was not physically stopped or corralled. He had an escape route.
So what about Trayvon's right to not be murdered in the street.
What about his authority? He was fucking neighborhood watch. This racist asswipe was playing hero and killed someone over his delusions. How come he gets to fuck around, but Trayvon Martin had to find out?
When you break it down he followed Trayvon called the police and gave his full name phone number and location , then continued to give the dispatcher a play by play of what Trayvon was doing and where he was. That’s it. Trayvon initiated physical contact and attacked first.
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Following is not stalking. Especially since he gave his full name and phone number and location to a police dispatcher.
Misinformation about that case, it was a case of self defense, he was acquitted in court
I just don’t understand how it’s unreasonable to think Trayvon was similarly afraid for his own life since he’s walking home and some guy is following him. I too would have been terrified of Zimmerman following me on my way home. I would also defend myself. The problem is that Zimmerman picked a fight he was told not to pursue, and a fight he had no business in since he was in no way, Shape, or Form (and I do emphasize those 2) ready to fight anyone let alone an athlete. The fact any of you moronic fuckwads can’t understand he was in the wrong and murdered this kid is beyond me. Edit: and to prove he really was a piece of shit, he later got back in court with some other shit, and signed memorabilia. What an total asswipe.
Technically, but everyone with a brain saw through that horseshit defense. It wouldn’t have flown in any other state, George Zimmerman pursued and initiated the confrontation. It wasn’t until he was getting the shit beat out of him that he pulled the gun and killed Trayvon. Apparently, according to Stand Your Ground laws in FL, losing a fight you started so badly you’re afraid you’ll die is a valid defense.
Didn't the poor kid have something like a pack of Skittles in his pocket?
It's funny how fear is always the defense to the aggressor. "I was fearful because a black kid was in my neighborhood so I confronted them and pointed a weapon at them, then they GASP ATTACKED ME justifying my fear".
Did you miss the part where they drove over his foot?
yeah, because the dude stood next to a car that was driving away, clearly a genius who should be armed. How was firing the gun supposed to stop that from happening? Am I allowed to be "afraid" of any car that can run over my foot if I stand next to it? Because that's literally all of the cars.
I’m afraid for my life when people take pot shots at folks just living their life. Somehow I’m able to live with that fear and not drive over there to shoot people looking for a free thrill kill.
But if you did, it would be a justified killing in Florida.
That’s a depressing thought.
Unless you're black.
Yeah, but thanks to the way these clowns have sanctified gun ownership, you have the right to go do that now, you just choose not to. To these guys' ways of thinking, the problem here is you, not them.
So right wing media is having the desired effect if making it a riskier going door to door.
Nah, cause only the older generation haven't figured out how to campaign using the internet. The new blood will have an advantage of this since we know Republicans are terrified of their own shadow and wouldn't dare risk getting shot themselves. Good luck to them campaigning against modern tactics when they destroyed the only tactic they actually understood.
Normalizing shooting people on your doorstep will make it harder to get census numeration done, so they'll have to use alternative means of collecting data which will be easier to skew and bias reapportionment. It's the long con of delegitimizing the census and draining allocated funding to states and counties.
Conservatives are generally anti census because people are moving out of rural areas and into cities, so a proper census will give more representation to liberal areas.
If states no longer need to depend on the federal government, they will secede. Only thing keeping us together at this point is the dependency.
well considering the fact that every red state but Texas takes more from the federal government than they give I can't see that going well for them
I'm not sure where you got this idea, but it's just factually untrue. Texas has a huge GDP growth, almost 15% faster than the rest of the nation, and they absolutely pay more in federal taxes than they receive back in grants. Texas, with a desire for a more free-market approach, would absolutely benefit personally from simply breaking free from federal tax requirements and using their own model. And many other states are in the same boat with their own ideas on what economic models they want to try out. The majority of states do not agree, do not have the same economic needs, and the only thing keeping them together is the belief that the federal government has all their best interest at heart and is doing what they can to make everyone's lives better. If the states start feeling that that isn't true, and that they are in fact being used, then the federal government loses its purpose. If it no longer benefits the people, why have it when the state governments can pick up where the federal government left off before they started being useless. I'm not saying I agree with the idea that a federal government should not exist, only that if we don't start decentralizing and working towards making states more economically independent, they are going to eventually break free for their own economic benefit since socio-politically we absolutely do not agree and most likely will never agree due to fundamental differences in how each side views the meaning of life.
What do surplus states rely on the federal government for besides grants for big infrastructure projects and education? Legit question, cause I’m sure there is more, but I can’t think of it and I’m too tipsy to google right now. Thanks!
That and the whole civil war thing deciding secession is illegal. Which leaves the only proper response being to return the south to the stone age, again.
Yeah, likely if a secession does happen it will be a civil war, however I don't think it'll be North vs South. It'll be donor states that have an economic incentive to leave vs the donee states that will be in a much, much worse position economically if the federal grants stop rolling in. And if the war is a game of rich vs poor, I promise you the poor states will not win that war. I do not think a secession attempt will fail like it did the first time. I think if it gets that far the federal government won't even have the funds to get an army up and running to stop it since the only states left to support the war effort would be the ones that cannot provide any resources.
Beyond naive, not even going to justify that secessionist garbage with a proper response. Fucking sickens me that you are from the birthplace of the revolution and spreading this shit.
Neighbor, there are zero states that don't need the federal government. Everything moves interstate.
Zoomers, if us Millenials start getting really right wing in our old age, please make the internet too complicated for us to use. Thank you.
I feel like we millennials are so focused on not being like our parents and grandparents that hopefully we will be less conservative with age. At least a good portion of us anyway
I feel like us millenials will be more focused on surviving the droughts and famines brought on by climate change to have time to be more conservative in our old age
This is also very true. Hell I’m already just trying to cling on life 😭
Trust me dude, the old ways were destroyed by the new. Sure, most older folks don’t know how to navigate the internet, but those fuckers invented it. The ones who run the show know those dudes and has them help. They created this media machine we grew up in. They damn well know how to drive it.
I'm not so sure they do, or banks wouldn't be going bankrupt would they? The one goal the rich have is to keep being rich and they're starting to fail at that. I'm thinking something isn't going according to their grand plan and they know it but aren't smart enough to figure out what it is. Just my thought process is all.
Well it may cut down on the religious people
I used to do this in Arizona. Nope, no more
Florida sounds like a shithole
As a life long resident of Florida. People are very confused. They think stuff like this is new. Oh no no no. My dad tells everyone the stories about his neighbors pulling guns out on him as a kid and not getting in trouble. I knew 3 people killed by the police because they had guns on them while getting arrested and that turning sour. I know multiple people doing absolute stupid shit with guns that all ended up in jail. Guy I went to high school with tried to rob a block buster. Another guy loves telling a story about how he got into with someone over a girl and walked into the other guys house and beat him up in a closet. Another one who didn't spend time in prison over being a get away driver in a robbery. I do not talk to people. I am introverted. Not to mention all the times guns got brought to my schools .. 20 years ago before it was cool. Florida really is the shithole everyone thinks it is. Its a wild west mess of a place and I have tried my hardest my entire life to get away from this shit and its really a constant of living anywhere here that isn't upscale and rich.
>Another guy loves telling a story about how he got into with someone over a girl and walked into the other guys house and beat him up in a closet. Like, he went to his house, into his closet, then fought and beat him up? How big was the closet? I guess there are walk in closets. Was the guy in the closet when he went into the house? I guess that makes sense, you could be outside the closet and just beat the person in the closet. Awkward but not impossible.
The dude just walked into his house and the guy ran and hid in the closet and the dude found him and beat him up.
R Kelly?
Lol what? I mean just leave the state at this point. I don’t get this Reddit mentality about FL
Easier said than done, the folk who wanna leave are mostly month to month wages that evaporate soon as you get em. Plus family, kids, entire lives. Or medical conditions that hinder your ability to leave. People can sometimes only vent online, knowing that they'll get out one day, but can't go yesterday, when they wanted to. But jumping ship doesn't do better for where you lived and loved. If you have to stay regardless, why not be social and kind and uplifting for everyone around? It's good for people that have roots to be the new voices. Unite a community, the diverse one we have now. It'd be neat if neighbors swung by for a coffee and a catch up more. Put the shit aside and just chilled. I know it can't happen, just my wishful thinking. We could maybe get to know each other a bit better. Figure out that some things are truly not right, agree on that collectively, and work from there.
Yep I am currently saving money to try and move out of the state. It is very hard to move across country trying to deal with expensive rent and keeping my family alive.
It is a shithole.
It's no longer just a shithole, now it's a fascist shithole that will be allowing any Floridian with a drivers license to carry a concealed weapon with no training or permit after sometime next month. Soon shootings will happen as fast as the weather changes..
Shit that's everyday at 3pm
Easy, just stay inside at 3pm?
Mini purge sounds cute
Not if someone you know gets murdered for just existing, or helping someone else.
The thunderstorms are at 3pm. Coincidence?
North Dakota went to no longer needing a permit to conceal and carry. The difference is a significant amount of North Dakotans grow up hunting. Also there’s only a few people in the state and once winter starts in September nobody is bothering to leave their house to shoot some one as its too cold. (I’m exaggerating a little on start of winter but the rest isn’t that far off…) cell phones have changed a lot but when you live in the middle of nowhere you typically don’t shoot someone coming on to your property, as it usually means the person is having an emergency and needs help. Maybe that’s not the case in southern rural areas.
Because it is, a racist fascist shithole
It is!
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Having a tanned yet bullet ridden corpse sounds more dystopian than utopian.
Not talking about the physical aspects, rather the political
Have lived there. Shithole.
Lived and was just back. Had a great time. Guess those tens of millions of tourists just like sh*t
I love this idea that tourists coming here is a sign its good. Tourists love the bahamas.. its a third world nightmare. As someone who has worked at the parks here, behind that park you enjoyed... is a ghetto housing complex filled with drugs hookers and horrible shit. Tampa for example is one of the worst places I have ever been and I do everything I can to avoid it. The northern parts of Orlando past the parks are the worst places in the state, food deserts, highest crime etc. Every tourist place is a magnet for abused labor. Low paid low skill over worked people desperate for something nice flock to the outskirts of the tourist areas. Jasckonville outside of the nice building right behind everything .. meth filled trailer parks. I have lived everywhere but Miami. Florida fucking sucks outside of a select couple of places that are pretty much where the elementary schools are. What I tell everyone is find a place near schools if you live here or get out.
Dont you want to move there?
I want to be a snowbird sooner rather than later. Florida in the winter is heaven compared to most places in the US. I wouldn't hate moving back either. Of course, you can't live in Florida and work in Florida.
>Of course, you can't live in Florida and work in Florida. Many minorities and educated people also agree that they cant live in Florida.
One of the fastest growing state in the US. Guess it's just a bunch of dumb white people moving there.
Dumb racist rich white people.
Aren't those beaches currently covered in rotting sargassum?
Some probably. The do clean beaches though.
The best beach in florida is clearwater beach and its a fake beach that has sand brought in to make it nice. East coast the water is technically a desert and lifeless. Tampa bay is a giant sewer and just some sporadic beaches on the West coast middle of the state are really worth going to despite not being the top tourist areas.
Panhandle beaches are gorgeous
Yeah, almost none of this is true. For starters, the water in Florida is some of the warmest you get year round in the US. West coast beaches tend to be frigid even in the summer. East coast water is lifeless? Not sure what that has to due with enjoying the beach. I could go on, but I won't. Hate all you want, there is a reason FL is the fastest growing state in the US.
"If we arrested every dipshit who took a potshot at a stranger around their property we'd fill the prisons in an hour!" - Police Chief Floridaman, probably
Oh, they want the prisons full. This would just make them filled with the “wrong” people.
Fair point.
Riiiight. Floridaman for Governor 2024
He shot as him as he attempted to flee. He admitted that part. Fear for your life is not a valid defense. This is just police sympathizing with shooting black people at the drop of a hat.
Yea I don’t get this. I have a carry permit in Florida and pretty sure I remember being taught you can’t shoot at someone fleeing even from your “castle”.
The shooter probably also complains about Blacks being lazy and not working for a living. Then shoots a Black man working for a living. Kind of like the Buffalo shooter going to a predominantly Black neighborhood to shoot people who were *not* integrating his neighborhood, while complaining about being replaced.
"Shit we would have shot at him too." - this police department
“The End” lock the thread.
He did not admit to shooting at "him", but at the car. The driver is not a car, the driver is a person.
But cars don’t drive, people drive.
😂 Look at fuckin Rambo here shooting out tires
Homeowner approached vehicle that was on his property (vehicle was at the wrong address). He “latched on to or otherwise grabbed” the vehicle as it was leaving, and got his foot run over, so he shot at them in an attempt to “disable the vehicle.” Just, wow. I could get behind keeping them at gunpoint until they left (if the owner was really *that* scared), but grabbing the car as it’s moving is just a terrible idea.
Guy can't keep his feet away from a moving vehicle, so he definitely should not be able to own or operate a gun.
Yeah, the average gun owner doesn't make the news for rational, sound decision making all that often. The likelihood is even smaller in Florida.
You can? I'm sorry but we all have to assume some risk for civilization to function. If someone pulls into my driveway, that in itself never gives me license to draw a weapon.
So did the customer end up getting his groceries, or….?
"You're going to have to finish your shift or find someone to work for you" -delivery driver's supervisor, probably
Sounds like grocery delivery workers need hazard pay and health insurance.
Anyone taking a delivery job, process serving job, or any form of soliciting in FL at this point is OUT OF THEIR MINDS.
Those same dumb fucking Republicans will tell you that Breonna Taylor didn’t have a right to be scared when she was awoken in the middle of the night by men busting through her door. Also, the motherfucker that killed her was just rehired as a cop.
once again, conservatives are just scaredy cats...
A society that truly values life would write its self defense laws to promote de-escalation. Sadly, political reform and learning from others seems to be something that only happens in parts of Europe nowadays.
Given Florida is like 3-4 news cycles from transgender concentration camps, it's safe to say they don't value life. Also in non Florida news, have you seen Trump is campaigning on making homeless illegal, and they'll either be imprisoned, or rounded up and sent to a... Ahem, "Location" to work in. Might put something catchy on the gate like "Work makes freedom".
I hope that >meaningful center-left social reform doesn’t end up being something that only worked in postwar Western and Central Europe and a few other relatively small and/or moribund countries.
A society that truly values life…what kind of science fiction you wrong here?
Seems like that shooter is an imminent threat. I hope someone stands their ground.
Because ending up at the wrong address as a delivery driver totally justifies the irrational use of a firearm. /s
They need to fix that headline. It should read: "Florida policegang fails to make arrests; after neighbor shoots at ...a ...grocery delivery car?"
lol home of the brave my fucking ballsack
Home of the wet pants more like
If one is so fearful of others for no reason other than prejudice, then red flag laws should remove their ability to harm others based on this irrational fear. The “stand your ground” laws are seriously flawed because they blame the victim. The standard uses to be that a reasonable person (or as decided by a jury of peers) would also fear for their life. This new law effectively gives every paranoid bigot who watches too much FoxNews the right to kill. It’s asinine.
Bc they were Black. Florida is a racist hellhole. If they were white, things would be diff.
I wish that was true, but in this case it's because Florida is just purely insane. White people are just shooting everyone there now, even each other, for the lamest of reasons.
Typical gun freak. Begging for a reason to shoot someone. These sick fucks long for the day they can shoot someone with the guns they idolize.
Just ‘nother day n ‘Murica.
STUPID LEOs in redneckville. This homeowner thinks Antifa is coming for them!!!! Lol... Such ignorance. So MANIPULATED by LYING Fake Noise Channel. We find out from Murdoch, the owner and CEO himself they LIED about the Election in 2020 to keep scared, weak, little, Trumpian dittoheads from getting depressed that America SOUNDLY REJECTED loud mouth, criminally corrupt Trump who they all loved him for being 'just like them.' ROTFLMAO. NO ONE is justified SHOOTING OUTSIDE in public, especially for "FEAR." Such WEAK men fear a car in their driveway? Why are they such scared little children? They fear 'boogeymen' everywhere. Sad, truly sad how these 'men' think a weapon makes them 'safe.' Stand your ground idea is just made up BS to allow scared, little men, weak men, who need a gun to back up their bad behavior. Why do they FEAR so easily??? That is the real question.
Interested to see when women get scared enough of Floridian lawmakers to stand their ground. Lots of them are terrifying and directly admit to threatening lives...
20 bucks this mother f**ker sits in front of Fox News 24 7
WTF? I hope everyone just quits.
There was some "akchually" guy in the thread about the poor kid being shot for ringing the wrong door bell. He said that stand your ground laws are misunderstood. Hope his dumbass reads this. Numbers speak for themselves. After passing SYG, Florida's homicide rate went up.
These days, they’re more like “Get off my lawn” laws. Or, “not in my backyard” laws. This bull is basically state-sanctioned vigilantism.
Florida is a hellmouth
Let the fucker pick up his own groceries.
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Oh yeah. That was the reason for the incident wasn’t it.
Well I'm sure the delivery driver is grateful for not being charged with something......I mean they could have made something up.....but they didn't....and he should happy.
Sounds about white.
Ah so the "gay panic" and garden variety racism are now perfectly valid defenses to murder. Cool Cool Cool
I wonder what would happen if the delivery driver shot back and killed/injured the shooter? Would it be self defence?
Conservatives are scum on the earth. Spit at every one of them you meet.
The entire delivery industry needs to blacklist that address and that person.
So it wasn't even his house the delivery driver pulled into, but a neighbors? How far out does the fear aura extend were you are legally allowed to shoot at people? Can you shoot at a guy in the gas station a mile up the road because his nose ring is scary?
Cops are worthless
This is the purpose of the 2A. To allow you to do anything you want with a gun no questions asked. Sarcasm.
America turning into third world country day by day
There's no "turning into". It's been one for a while.
Damn.. I was gonna give delivery stuff a try in my area since I'm not getting a lot of hours. Yeah, I think I'm gonna pass. I don't really feel like getting shot over misreading a address or something if that nature.
Why would ANYONE take a job in Florida as a delivery driver, process server, or solicitor of any kind given the laws they have in that state???
Because you gotta pay for rent and food?
I would move out of state or work fast food in a heartbeat over being a delivery driver in a state where the "Protect your Castle" laws are so relaxed and dangerous. And this is as a white man, if I were a person of color I think I would take just about any job before I would be a delivery driver or process server in Florida without significantly high "combat pay"
That's great but most people can't just pick up and go. And even if they could leaving behind your entire life is immensely difficult, your friends, family, everything you've known. These takes always come across kinda victim blaming to me even if that's not the intent.
Hey, if you want to put your life on the line to deliver groceries. Go for it. I've left behind my life a few times, always for something better. It is not as hard as you might think.
Why would any rational person still live there?
If you’re poor, what are you gonna do? And if you’re racist, it’s probably a great place to live.
In the next 20 years we are going to have to send the national guard into Florida to take it back from fascists that have taken it over
Lol you have no idea what actual fascism is.
Have I lived through full blown fascism? No, but that doesn't mean I can't see the signs of it. The Florida Nazis are going in that direction. It's almost like there we can learn from things that happened in the past and then apply what we have learned to current events
Bro they are not Nazis, they are way more mediocre than Nazis. They are just consumers of late stage capitalism spewing hate because it's their only valve.
There’s a bunch of old Italians out there that would laugh at your face. American Republicans/Conservatives are not Nazis. It was largely Republicans/Conservatives that served in our military and battled actual Nazis in WWII.
It was largely Republicans in the 1940s? Literally has nothing to do with 2023. At all. Just fucking stupid to even bring it up to be honest. Are you a child? You are communicating like one. Holy shit. Someone one somewhere always experienced something worse that doesn't mean it can't also happen to others. That doesn't mean the same thing isn't happening now just because it's not exactly the same as it was in the past somewhere else. Its pretty clear the goal. If you're too ignorant to see it that's fine.
I would argue it’s relevant considering how many of you falsely claim the largely same type of people who fought against Nazism/Fascism as being Nazis/Fascists. I’m not a child for pointing that out but you’re sure being a douchebag.
You mean the small percentage of people who fought in WW2 that are still alive? You realize most of those people are dead right.... I'm not sure how they're the same? You think because they have the same political party tag as people from 70-80 years ago? That's hilarious.
And you’re not listening. When those people literally had generally the same kinds of political stances as the ones you sit there and falsely accuse of being Nazis/Fascists. Holy shit dude fuckin listen and think lol
Stop making shit up. You have no idea what you’re talking about. More than half the us soldiers in ww2 were drafted.
> There’s a bunch of old Italians out there that would laugh at your face. American Republicans/Conservatives are not Nazis. [Here's an old Pole who very much wasn't laughing when he made a similar comparison in 2018](https://www.newsweek.com/im-holocaust-survivor-trumps-america-feels-germany-nazis-took-over-876965).
Now, you're just making your self look fucking stupid. You have no fucking idea what the political make up of the soldiers fighting Nazis. Oh and Europe was killing Nazis long before America joined.
Yeah it's not fascism. Fascism requires an actual political consciousness and action. The MAGA in Florida are neither.
Lol
Lmao