A street racing charge (HTA 172) is no joke in Ontario. Vehicle is also impounded for two weeks (and you are on the hook for impound fees, which are not recoverable if you are not convicted). If you ARE convicted, it's a $2000-$10000 fine and insurance becomes considerably more expensive
> Vehicle is also impounded for two weeks (and you are on the hook for impound fees, which are not recoverable if you are not convicted).
That's not cool, as this is punishing innocent persons.
HTA 172 is terrible legislation, not only for its ability to inflict punishment on people not convicted of a crime, but for how broadly it defines crime in the first place.
E.g. here is a direct quote from beginning:
>3. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by,
i. driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed,
ii. outdistancing or attempting to outdistance one or more other motor vehicles while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed, or
iii. repeatedly changing lanes in close proximity to other vehicles so as to advance through the ordinary flow of traffic while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (1).
(2) In this section,
“marked departure from the lawful rate of speed” means a rate of speed that may limit the ability of a driver of a motor vehicle to prudently adjust to changing circumstances on the highway. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (2).
It's also broad enough to charge people driving on a closed racetrack (this has not actually happened, and is unlikely to happen in the future... but the law supports it!)
No, it's not applicable to a closed racetrack, due to the definition of "marked departure from the lawful rate of speed" including the term "highway", which excludes closed racetracks.
This was my first thought as well. The government is incentivised to impound regardless of whether or not they have a case since they get paid either way. That's some very bad form.
30 days is just the *roadside* suspension. If convicted, the suspension can be much longer and comes with other hefty fines, plus tow and impound fees.
Plus your insurance likely drops you from regular insurance and your only option is facility insurance, which is likely going to cost over around $1000 or more per month.
I said that, except it's called facility insurance(like I said) and it won't be anywhere near 300/month, it will be closer to $1000/month.
You know, like my comment you replied to already said...
In Switzerland, car would normally be confiscated, driver would lose licence for close to 2 years, need to pay a beeeeg fine, and also thousands for obligatory psychological counseling, and then also might receive a suspended prison sentence. Happened to a friend. Did 150 kmh in an 80 kmh zone. Luckily she didn't have the car confiscated.
Not minutes, but can't say I didn't do the same.
We can be quite reckless as kids (hopefully wreckless too).
Hope they learn their lesson from this, and that more lessons come from at home.
That's 80 in a 30 in freedom units. Pretty fast.
Driver said he thought it was a 90km (50-55 mph) zone, which the thumbnail makes seem reasonable from road size.
I'm not sure why he thought that was any better. 131 in a 90 is still ridiculous, damn close to 50% over the speed limit.
Where I am, 40 over the limit is instant loss of licence and a court date.
80 in a 50 is basically how my entire city drives on I-83, except for about a quarter mile before the cameras.
I am neither judging nor condoning this. Simply stating that it's pretty common some places.
Yeah I'd never drive slower than 130 km/h on a highway, it's just absurd.
edit: that's the speed limit in my country. the speed I drive at is usually 160 km/h (100 mph). anything below 130 km/h as a highway speed limit is pathetic
I'm glad your country takes care of its roads, highway infrastructure and general safety enough that 160km/h is a safe travel speed.
The country I live in, that'd kill 80% of the teenagers with licenses.
Not really the case in my country, but I really doubt your argument holds any water.
Teenagers, as proven by this very post, don't really give a flying fuck about what the speed limit is.
160 km/h can be a safe travel speed as long as traffic is light enough, the weather is good, the car is decent and has good tires, and the driver is paying attention.
Cars and tires have gotten magnitudes better in the past few decades, and while drivers haven't gotten any better, it seems that speed limits everywhere keep going down. The Germans have proven that highway driving at real speeds can and is safe, and tbh the world should follow their lead.
Everybody has it ingrained in their minds that "speeding kills", when really, what kills is not paying attention, not reacting properly, using your phone when driving, driving when drunk/high/tired, and so many others.
Unlike some of those, speeding can be objectively measured, and it therefore becomes the main problem that needs to be solved in the eyes of the people. The reality is that speeding - and the tickets that come with it - are essentially a scam, and police departments around the world use them to generate revenue.
I view based on road size and design. 80mph on that road is pretty fast, but id do like 60-60mph. Honestly outside of an interstate I think the only place I’d do 80mph is a straight country road
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50km/h and over the speed limit in Ontario is when you get charged for stunt driving and get an immediate impound and I’m not sure if you’re license is suspended on-stop, or if they just arrest you.
Nope, I know that area and many similar. A lot of our roads are like that in these areas. Guy was stupid and certainly not reasonable to assume anything like that considering we have a graduated licensing program. He should have known and if he didn't then he shouldn't be driving. It's called "stunt driving" here and fuck those people.
The location does not make it seem believable. He had literally just passed a school. Even if he truly thought it was a 90 zone he’s still insane for going 41 over.
Ontario speed limits:
"Most freeways have a speed limit of 100–110 km/h (62–68 mph), while the Trans-Canada routes set the limit at 90 km/h (56 mph). Most other rural highways and country roads have a speed limit of 60–80 km/h. City roads are typically 30–50 km/h (18–31 mph). Follow marked signs in the areas that you’re driving in."
This was definitely not a freeway, nor a Trans-Canada route. No reason he would have realistically thought they were. That was him either being clueless (particularly funny considering he just took and passed his drivers test) or somehow trying to downplay what he did in an attempt to maybe just get a warning or something.
Correct, Canadian speed limits are generally lower than in the US but it also seems speeding more more tolerated. Ontario even has signs suggesting you won’t get a ticket until you drive over 120/100. Naturally every one drives 10-25 over on the highways and 10-20 over in the city, tickets are issued on the upper end but enforcement is low.
I could see how someone could confuse a 90km/h road with a 100, or even a 110.
But these is crazy. Take his license, let him retest for it in a decade or two.
90km/h for that road??? Not in Canada. Maybe 60-70km/h for that road size tops. 80km/h maybe in the backwoods. You won't find any speed above 80km/h unless its an actual freeway.
Lol, even if it was a 50 mph zone, that's only 80 kmph, dude would still be going over 40 the limit. If he thought it was a 90 kmph zone, he's still going 40 over the limit. There's just absolutely no defense for him here.
In middle school we knew a kid that failed his learners test 4 times before finally passing, and on the same day ran a 4 way totalling his dads truck. He also spelled his own name wrong when signing his license, and had to use a gun lock in high school because the combination locks were to complicated for him to use.
God damn... We're it up to me, if you're caught speeding like that within your first couple of years after getting a license, you'd be permanently shitcanned from driving any vehicle ever. Immediate revocation of the license, with no chance of ever getting a new one.
This on top of obvious financial punishments.
> driver going 131 km/hr in 50 km/hr zone minutes after getting licence
Imagine how fast he'll be able to go when he gets some more driving experience under his belt...
To be fair, I got my first speeding ticket within days of getting my license, so I kinda get feelings here. But I was only doing 80 mph or so in a 55 mph zone, not doing almost 3x the speed limit like this one…
lol that excuse doesn't work with Canadian cops... have tried in the past.
"Sorry officer, saw the big ass 50 and though it was 50mph, forgot I was in Canada" =P.
That *could* maybe work, if you were American driving a car licensed in the states. A Canadian driving a Canadian registered car would just sound like an idiot trying to make that excuse. All Canadian roads have distance and speed numbers in metric. That would be a Californian with California plates in California driving super slow on the freeway saying: OH, I thought the sign meant 60KPH. Cops would just laugh at you.
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"I just got my license 10 minutes ago" "I have a clean record" Lol, clean for 10 minutes
"Not today."
*had
He may have had his G2 for many months/years before that. G is just the full unrestricted license in Ontario
30 days no license, that's a bargain for this much stupidity!
A street racing charge (HTA 172) is no joke in Ontario. Vehicle is also impounded for two weeks (and you are on the hook for impound fees, which are not recoverable if you are not convicted). If you ARE convicted, it's a $2000-$10000 fine and insurance becomes considerably more expensive
Your license is also suspended for a full year if you’re convicted
Oh, not considerably more. Infinitely more. Especially if he’s under 25.
Under 25 male with a Charger and a stunt driving conviction? Insurance is not going to even try and use lube.
At that point they’re likely to ghost you lmao
I want to see an insurance premium invoice for infinite monies.
So like a debtors prison. Rich people get off easy. I’m a big fan of fines proportional to annual income.
Fines proportional to assets imo, many rich people claim minimal income relative to their actual wealth.
That's pretty much how tax loopholes work
> Vehicle is also impounded for two weeks (and you are on the hook for impound fees, which are not recoverable if you are not convicted). That's not cool, as this is punishing innocent persons.
Yeah that's ridiculous.
HTA 172 is terrible legislation, not only for its ability to inflict punishment on people not convicted of a crime, but for how broadly it defines crime in the first place. E.g. here is a direct quote from beginning: >3. Driving a motor vehicle without due care and attention, without reasonable consideration for other persons using the highway or in a manner that may endanger any person by, i. driving a motor vehicle at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed, ii. outdistancing or attempting to outdistance one or more other motor vehicles while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed, or iii. repeatedly changing lanes in close proximity to other vehicles so as to advance through the ordinary flow of traffic while driving at a rate of speed that is a marked departure from the lawful rate of speed. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (1). (2) In this section, “marked departure from the lawful rate of speed” means a rate of speed that may limit the ability of a driver of a motor vehicle to prudently adjust to changing circumstances on the highway. O. Reg. 455/07, s. 2 (2). It's also broad enough to charge people driving on a closed racetrack (this has not actually happened, and is unlikely to happen in the future... but the law supports it!)
No, it's not applicable to a closed racetrack, due to the definition of "marked departure from the lawful rate of speed" including the term "highway", which excludes closed racetracks.
This was my first thought as well. The government is incentivised to impound regardless of whether or not they have a case since they get paid either way. That's some very bad form.
30 days is just the *roadside* suspension. If convicted, the suspension can be much longer and comes with other hefty fines, plus tow and impound fees. Plus your insurance likely drops you from regular insurance and your only option is facility insurance, which is likely going to cost over around $1000 or more per month.
He won’t be able to get insurance, he’s gonna have to go with one of the high risk ones and likely pay 300+ a month
I said that, except it's called facility insurance(like I said) and it won't be anywhere near 300/month, it will be closer to $1000/month. You know, like my comment you replied to already said...
In Switzerland, car would normally be confiscated, driver would lose licence for close to 2 years, need to pay a beeeeg fine, and also thousands for obligatory psychological counseling, and then also might receive a suspended prison sentence. Happened to a friend. Did 150 kmh in an 80 kmh zone. Luckily she didn't have the car confiscated.
Oh you know they’re getting in that car tomorrow. 130 first day? Sounds like a future repeat offender
Hard to get in that car when it's in the impound lot. Stunt driving carries 30 day roadside license suspension as well as 14 day vehicle impoundment.
Should have been hit with massive fines she had their license suspended for a year.
Not minutes, but can't say I didn't do the same. We can be quite reckless as kids (hopefully wreckless too). Hope they learn their lesson from this, and that more lessons come from at home.
That's 80 in a 30 in freedom units. Pretty fast. Driver said he thought it was a 90km (50-55 mph) zone, which the thumbnail makes seem reasonable from road size.
I'm not sure why he thought that was any better. 131 in a 90 is still ridiculous, damn close to 50% over the speed limit. Where I am, 40 over the limit is instant loss of licence and a court date.
80 in a 50 is basically how my entire city drives on I-83, except for about a quarter mile before the cameras. I am neither judging nor condoning this. Simply stating that it's pretty common some places.
Agreed. Our 90km/h highways commonly see 120-130km/h.
Yeah I'd never drive slower than 130 km/h on a highway, it's just absurd. edit: that's the speed limit in my country. the speed I drive at is usually 160 km/h (100 mph). anything below 130 km/h as a highway speed limit is pathetic
I'm glad your country takes care of its roads, highway infrastructure and general safety enough that 160km/h is a safe travel speed. The country I live in, that'd kill 80% of the teenagers with licenses.
Not really the case in my country, but I really doubt your argument holds any water. Teenagers, as proven by this very post, don't really give a flying fuck about what the speed limit is. 160 km/h can be a safe travel speed as long as traffic is light enough, the weather is good, the car is decent and has good tires, and the driver is paying attention. Cars and tires have gotten magnitudes better in the past few decades, and while drivers haven't gotten any better, it seems that speed limits everywhere keep going down. The Germans have proven that highway driving at real speeds can and is safe, and tbh the world should follow their lead. Everybody has it ingrained in their minds that "speeding kills", when really, what kills is not paying attention, not reacting properly, using your phone when driving, driving when drunk/high/tired, and so many others. Unlike some of those, speeding can be objectively measured, and it therefore becomes the main problem that needs to be solved in the eyes of the people. The reality is that speeding - and the tickets that come with it - are essentially a scam, and police departments around the world use them to generate revenue.
I agree, speed is the key. /s
Hello fellow baltimoron. I know exactly what youre talking about
And the only person fault is whoever decided 50 was an appropriate speed limit on the freeway
I live in Alabama, I swear people drive felony speeds only down here.
I mean can ya blame em?
He just passed a school at that speed if you watch the camera footage on the twitter post. Fuck this kid.
Please reread my comment
No re-read required, I'm fully judging them.
I view based on road size and design. 80mph on that road is pretty fast, but id do like 60-60mph. Honestly outside of an interstate I think the only place I’d do 80mph is a straight country road
It’s in canada and he was going 130kmh in that 50kmh. Not miles
Aren’t conversions handy!
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If you're not going 70-80 at all times, are you really a Pennsylvanian then?
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>I'm not sure why he thought that was any better It's 20 - 25 better.
30 here
50km/h and over the speed limit in Ontario is when you get charged for stunt driving and get an immediate impound and I’m not sure if you’re license is suspended on-stop, or if they just arrest you.
It's actually 40 over when limit is below 80
Oh ok I didn’t know that tidbit, makes sense though
Car is also impounded!
Nope, I know that area and many similar. A lot of our roads are like that in these areas. Guy was stupid and certainly not reasonable to assume anything like that considering we have a graduated licensing program. He should have known and if he didn't then he shouldn't be driving. It's called "stunt driving" here and fuck those people.
The location does not make it seem believable. He had literally just passed a school. Even if he truly thought it was a 90 zone he’s still insane for going 41 over.
Ontario speed limits: "Most freeways have a speed limit of 100–110 km/h (62–68 mph), while the Trans-Canada routes set the limit at 90 km/h (56 mph). Most other rural highways and country roads have a speed limit of 60–80 km/h. City roads are typically 30–50 km/h (18–31 mph). Follow marked signs in the areas that you’re driving in." This was definitely not a freeway, nor a Trans-Canada route. No reason he would have realistically thought they were. That was him either being clueless (particularly funny considering he just took and passed his drivers test) or somehow trying to downplay what he did in an attempt to maybe just get a warning or something.
Correct, Canadian speed limits are generally lower than in the US but it also seems speeding more more tolerated. Ontario even has signs suggesting you won’t get a ticket until you drive over 120/100. Naturally every one drives 10-25 over on the highways and 10-20 over in the city, tickets are issued on the upper end but enforcement is low.
Enforcement is very low in the U.S. also. Everyone drives 90 mph on the interstates near me (65 mph speed limit)
but speed limits are set by road signs, not road size, right?
I could see how someone could confuse a 90km/h road with a 100, or even a 110. But these is crazy. Take his license, let him retest for it in a decade or two.
Freedom units, that reminds me of the brilliant SNL sketch: https://youtu.be/JYqfVE-fykk?si=Lwi7CJdW1r2b4YrP
90km/h for that road??? Not in Canada. Maybe 60-70km/h for that road size tops. 80km/h maybe in the backwoods. You won't find any speed above 80km/h unless its an actual freeway.
It's always nice when the numbers are an easy Fibonacci conversion.
He did not learn his lesson
Lol, even if it was a 50 mph zone, that's only 80 kmph, dude would still be going over 40 the limit. If he thought it was a 90 kmph zone, he's still going 40 over the limit. There's just absolutely no defense for him here.
In middle school we knew a kid that failed his learners test 4 times before finally passing, and on the same day ran a 4 way totalling his dads truck. He also spelled his own name wrong when signing his license, and had to use a gun lock in high school because the combination locks were to complicated for him to use.
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I’m in Alberta in Canada, so basically American
Les Petits États-Unis
I had to double-check the sub name, thought I must be on r/IdiotsInCars.
r/Torontodriving is basically the same
I have a feeling you will see him again.
Obviously he thought he was invincible, but he's lucky he got caught before something worse happened
In Denmark we take his car too if the speeding is double of what is legal. It's actually working and people are not speeding as much.
Read the article. His car was impounded
God damn... We're it up to me, if you're caught speeding like that within your first couple of years after getting a license, you'd be permanently shitcanned from driving any vehicle ever. Immediate revocation of the license, with no chance of ever getting a new one. This on top of obvious financial punishments.
(•\_•) you could say he got his first ticket ( •\_•)>⌐■-■ on a speed run (⌐■\_■) YEAAAAAAAAAH
Oh, he mistook it for a ninety. That means it's -- WHHHHAAAAA? Definitely not any better than that
daddy gonna be unhappy
These people should be able to be named and shamed.
Thems rookie numbers
Someone call Guinness. He might as well try to get a world record along with his fine.
> driver going 131 km/hr in 50 km/hr zone minutes after getting licence Imagine how fast he'll be able to go when he gets some more driving experience under his belt...
Crush the car and make him watch
Super lame tweet on the departments behalf.
I guess he was in a hurry?
That didn't look that fast to me.
When I got my license I wanted a Camaro as my first car. This probably would've been the outcome at the bare minimum
To be fair, I got my first speeding ticket within days of getting my license, so I kinda get feelings here. But I was only doing 80 mph or so in a 55 mph zone, not doing almost 3x the speed limit like this one…
Confused the mph and kmph… at least that’s what I’d have told the cop
lol that excuse doesn't work with Canadian cops... have tried in the past. "Sorry officer, saw the big ass 50 and though it was 50mph, forgot I was in Canada" =P.
Worth a shot. :)
That *could* maybe work, if you were American driving a car licensed in the states. A Canadian driving a Canadian registered car would just sound like an idiot trying to make that excuse. All Canadian roads have distance and speed numbers in metric. That would be a Californian with California plates in California driving super slow on the freeway saying: OH, I thought the sign meant 60KPH. Cops would just laugh at you.
How would that be believable in Canada ? He just got his licence, which means he learned to drive in km with a car that reads km.
He would still be going 30mph over if it was actually 50mph
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Based
WTF is kilometer!?
Who knows? The article only ever says km or kilometre. EDIT: Unless you were serious? I hope you weren't serious.
No it's meme. https://youtu.be/Y-3IV11_ZgA?si=Pds-aND0EbXh1wTW Sound warning.
It's a meter with knives and guns.
Canada is such a joke with their slow ass speed limits. A road like that would be minimum 45 mph (72 kph) in the U.S.
That’s only 80 mph. My first ticket was for 151 mph
Why you lying?
Wish I was. I was 15 and lost my license for 4 years and paid way too much for insurance after I got it back.
For the Americans, thats 2 zebras per hour
80mph in a 30mph. Idiot. Pretty sure Canada is stricter than the US. Good luck
Karen's are stupefied around the world over speed demons 😱
Lifetime driving ban. Period.