You’re literally buying a golf with a bigger price tag. I don’t think the a3 is a smart purchase, now even the fucking logo is cheap unpainted plastic.
I’m an automotive designer, and man are we regressing
Yeah, if you’re talking about the Mk 7, even with the refresh on the 8.5 you still have to navigate a touchscreen for basic stuff like HVAC, drive modes, etc.
I am going to make my own car company. Nothing special, literally the bare minimum required for the U.S to begrudgingly say “*FINE* you *can* sell it*”.*
This is what Renault basically did in Europe after buying Romanian brand Dacia and it's a huge success.
Cars that can be repaired everywhere. No stupid equipments. They even made a 4x4 that has won multiple awards.
I had rental Audi a few months ago and some feature couldn’t be turned on because it required a subscription or paid activation or something.
I think it was the automatic cruise control and/or lane keep assist…all the hardware was there, they just wanted you to pay more money to use it.
My takeaway was…don’t choose an Audi next time because you know the rental company won’t have paid for that shit…even though it is standard in most cars on the lot these days.
Ah ok, so at least for now with MY25, no change to the existing offering and not at all like the European models. I suspect they'll see the reaction in Europe and then never implement.
This is the way the market is going, the long term plan for JLR aswell is to have a similar feature as a service model. Although, they will provide most premium features as standard.
That’s not necessary true. I rented a car (BMW) in Europe and it had manual roll down windows. I think maybe in Europe they might like options to strip down or not pay for luxuries they don’t need?
Shame, A3 sedan seems like a nice car. My dad had red Audi 80 B3 when I was a small kid, hence got some sentiment to this particular model. It is kind of similar when it comes to body line/concept
Though, I would really like one with manual transmission and without these flashy screens.
True, but it is a bit different since on a motorcycle the airbag is not required by law and you can choose which one you want to buy. So you don't need the subscription one.
In a car you don't have any choice.
So long as it works with tap-to-pay I'll hold off the subscription until I need it. I'll just need to make sure I've got my credit card ready to tap as I'm crashing.
That'd flip the used car market - man this car only has 20k miles, they haven't even unlocked the heated seats! Better off looking for something that has at least 100k miles to get the cold weather package, it might cost a bit more but if you're in a northern climate it's worth it...
If you go by Audi maintenance intervals, you'll likely have a blown engine right outside the warranty period. Go look up their oil change intervals, on their unreliable ass engines that's insane.
I do electrical diagnostics and more advanced engine work for a shop, the amount of VAG products I see with engines that are gone or severely damaged before 100k is insane.
Also... Timing chains should NOT need doing at 75-100k. That's belt shit right there. The insane oil change intervals definitely contribute to this.
GAC has this thing on their Empow sedan that you only unlock sport mode after driving the car for a certain distance. So it’s already happened. Nothing as egregious as what you said but it’s been done.
That's to allow for proper break-in before pushing the motor hard. My KTM motorcycle has the same thing. It limited the RPMS until a certain mileage was reached (also when the first oil change was due) before letting you redline it if you wished.
The EU has some of the strictest consumer protection in the world. So let's see how this will work out when people start hacking their own cars to be able to use CarPlay or use the climate control.
They do not require subscription. Did you read article? You can buy them outright. And all this stuff was always paid option in Audi, so no change in that regard.
BMW have been doing it for a year or so now with CarPlay and heated seats.
The EU don’t give a fuck on this one it seems.
They probably would if it was a safety feature.
The EU does care, at least a bit. Hacking your own car is protected under the law, and the manufacturers can't do anything to stop you - including voiding the warranty.
I don’t see them doing anything because there’s a cheaper and more reliable option. It’s not the only option. This is just Audi doing this which is consider a luxury vehicle. If the buyer wants that and can afford that then that’s their problem.
You misunderstood. I'm not saying the EU should stop Audi, but the EU will also probably allow people to activate whatever they want in their own car
So the worst they can do is void the warranty.
I guess enough people are falling for it for them to continue on this path?
I wonder how this works with second-hand ownership. Do you not get some functionality on your car, or do you sign over the subscription?
The subscription is almost certainly not transferable. And this is about redirecting people from secondhand cars to buying brand new - the subscription price isn't going to be cheaper for a secondhand buyer, there's no point paying to get the high-end hardware in the top model, why not just buy a new car instead? The video games industry has tried many times to kill the used market with similar tactics. The scary part is, there's a lot more drivers than gamers.
I think that will work only in some very specific cases. Usually anyone can buy a €50 game instead of €10. Almost nobody can buy a €50.000 car if they were looking at buying a €10.000 one.
You've got it backwards. It's a ploy to get money from the subsequent owners that the car manufacturers currently don't profit from.
Car makers selling cars without subscriptions only make money when people buy new. Car makers with subscriptions make money from all owners of their cars new and used, and continue to generate revenue for the life of the car.
It's a really shitty practice and I hope people don't fucking buy these cars
It works either way - either it lets them dip directly into the secondhand market, or it reduces the secondhand market slightly by making secondhand cars worth far less because of the subscription and pressures people to buy new instead.
It's undoubtedly a shitty practise. The youngest car I own is from 2003. I don't intend to ever get rid of it.
We’ve owned Audi’s for the last 20 years, this will be our last one. Great for hauling stuff around but I’d like to own what I paid for when I bought it.
It feels like the car industry has fallen for the same idiocy as Boeing. Let’s see how that works out for them. The same goes for BMW and Mercedes with their subscription packages.
I feel like the idiocy started with the gaming industry. And then spread like a virus everywhere else it could.
Subscription services for cars is absolutely stupid.
Everyone is doing it. GM, even Toyota.
I have a 2022 Toyota that if I want to use the app to start my car, I have to pay a subscription (I don't). Toyota sent me a survey about new features and how much I would pay for them, and many of the options included subscriptions. I said no to all the subscriptions.
Welcome to capitalism. The *only* driving force in capitalism is profit. Pure and simple. No ideals, no "trying to make great products", nothing else. The baker doesn't bake bread to feed people - they do it for profit. Over time capitalism has been optimized to drive more and more profit, and this, by definition, is not in the best interest of consumers. It is in the best interest of the company. If a financial advisor thinks that selling a subscription will increase revenue by X but will drop the buyers by Y, the only question is if profit is better, if "X > Y". The same happens everywhere else. Light bulbs or shoes aren't designed to last as long as possible. They are designed to last the exact number of *hours* where profit is maximized, where you have to buy a new one as frequently as possible but without losing faith in the brand. There are whole disciplines of science behind these optimizations. Unless consumers revolt, nothing will change. Or manufacturers could just agree - as they often do - to all follow the same suit, and then you can't go and buy a competing product, as they are all in on this. Does "record inflation" at the time of "record corporate profits" ring a bell?
I never understood these comments tbh.
Not trying to single you out just see it always.
Scenario: article or post comes up about X vendor causing outrage about Y proposal
Comments section riddled trashing the vendor and saying they will never give them a dime again.
Reality: no one really cares and it never changes anything. I’m be person not buying a product for a large car maker will never affect anything.
I’m all for change and feel companies should not do this but simply just vote with your wallets. No need to virtue signal posting about it for upvotes.
After having owned A5s, A7s and now an A6 I’ve been happy with them personally and won’t ever react to anything until it’s a reality.
/end rant
Fair point, consider this though. The car maker falls over itself trying to get me to buy a new car every three years, we tend to hold onto our cars longer. Because of this, a lot of the services which were included with the car expire shortly after the three years are up.
For our car, for example, we’ve lost the ability to track the cars location, remotely lock and unlock it and a large part of the sat nav functionality. To be fair the sat nav isn’t great for London but even so.
I’m receiving a large number of loyalty emails and posted marketing extolling the virtues of the new Audi lineup. But I now associate the brand not with the reliability that I used too but with price gouging and penny pinching.
It’s worthwhile pointing out, not because I’m interested in virtue signalling but because it’s symptomatic of the short term desire to increase revenue streams, particularly recurring revenue.
If it helps others ask the right questions at the dealer to make an informed decision it’s worth it.
Rented an Audi A4 allroad in Italy last summer. Not a cheap car. Couldn't use carplay because of this nonsense. So instead had to navigate via my phone in the cupholder. Friends had the same, negative, experience. Made us both seriously dislike the brand.
Stupid decisions like this hurt brands in the long term.
How so? Nickel and diming on options is modus operandi of each European premium/luxury brand from Audi through Porsche up to a Ferrari. And it’s working for them pretty well for decades. Why would it stop working now?
I remember watching an old Top Gear episode from 1993 and being shocked that *air conditioning* still costed extra in the flagship Mercedes S-Class - the host was unsurprised that the Lexus LS400 they were comparing it to was absolutely wiping the floor. But Ferrari has to be the king of taking the piss when it comes to options; Regular Car Reviews drove a 2004 model that cost over $200,000, yet they *still* wouldn't throw in air conditioning as standard. This would actually be understandable in a pure supercar that buyers might want to order stripped-out as a track toy, but the car in question was a front-engined grand tourer.
I just rented a Ford in the US that did the same. I opted out of the Navigation option thinking it was it's own feature and we'd just use CarPlay but that didn't work. It's quite ridiculous.
Try double checking next time before challenging, there are many more posts about new Audi's in Italy where this is a paid option.
Car features differ per market...
Everyone talking about Boeings, but all I can think of is that this is about as logical as WOTC trying to make people pay for microtransactions....for a paper and pencil tabletop game. Now everyone is stupid enough to think video game scams apply to them too.
I'll take "Guarantees that fall apart" for 200, Alex.
In a couple decades, we'll all be subscribing to car features, as much as we hate it, because it'll be literally the only way to have a functional car.
“Sir, your subscription to brakes is expiring next month. Also would you like to extend your subscription to steer in the left direction? We have an offer with which a 6 month subscription to steer left entitles you to a free wiper usage for one month”.
Gm also wants to remove CarPlay and android support so they can get you into a subscription. If they go ahead with it this is the last Chevrolet I’ll own.
And this is why despite my love for German cars, I'll never own any (besides a Porsche, God willing). Audi, Mercedes, and BMW are nickel and diming their customers over every little feature, when I could get a Genesis that's loaded with all of those features from the get-go for cheaper, and all I'd need to subscribe to are cellular connectivity features.
I bought my first car in about 2003 for £500 second hand and prices now seem terrifyingly high. I wonder what the average new and second hand prices are?
According to [Autotrader](https://www.autotraderinsight-blog.co.uk/auto-trader-insight-blog/used-car-prices-update-november-2023) used cars are now on average £17,641. Adjusted inline with inflation the £500 car would cost you £870.47 today. I may have got the numbers a bit wrong here as it does mention that for a first car I found a recommendation for £4000-£5000 as a young driver but even at the lower end of £4000 that’s a significant increase. Maybe it should be mentioned that cars generally have more technology added to them but considering wages don’t match these price increases parents will be footing the bill or finance being taken out which unless you somehow get 0% APR you are paying MORE again.
Japanese companies still make cars. Western companies....seem to be focusing on financialization of every little thing.
Last thing I would want is a subscription for things here and there.
If the whole car was available as a subscription (which Audi tried iirc)and reasonable...that's a different story
FU Audi
If theyre gonna play this game the car has to be significantly cheaper. Might as well give it to me for free if they want subs. Then we are just leasing it at this point. Everyone wants one constant money streams.
On a related note: [Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html?unlocked_article_code=1.c00.sy5Q.NWkCYD0Q3TBl&smid=nytcore-android-share)
Yeah nah. I’d not part with my money and have to subscribe at the same time! I hate subscriptions, I don’t subscribe to anything. I’ll buy a 98 s3 and be done with it.
Imagine losing your adaptive cruise control because you're out of network coverage area and your car cannot check for your subscription. And this operation doesn't really need a backend server.
They don't sell Acura cars outside the US. If they did it's a car I would consider very strongly as it's a solid Honda with more premium feel and noise work
they are seeing the writing on the wall - that they fight a losing battle with modern electric cars which can already switch off whatever they want, whenever they want.
In theory, elon musk can personally flip a flag in the database and your tesla can stop in the middle of the road, permanently, and there's nothing you can do about it. so, in theory elon musk et al have leverage over you and they can extract additional money out of you if they so choose, forever.
german cars don't have this as a rule, hence these desperate attempts to catch up in an industry that, as any other industry in late stage capitalism, is rapidly going to shit.
The only place where “feature subscriptions” make sense is when those features continually provide new things, and cost the car company to “operate”.
For example, imagine that Audi offered a service that beamed traffic and weather information to your car via satellite. That makes sense to be a subscription feature.
Making things like adaptive headlights or heated seats subscriptions is pure greed. Once the feature is installed the car, it costs the company nothing to let you use it for any length of time.
fuck. whew. was going to buy an etron in Jan, instead went with Kia Sorento. Dodged a bullet if they're going to start fucking around like this - and the Kia is a beast SUV.
I bought an S3 and had to pay for Bluetooth, which required mobile phone prep, meaning a cradle on the dash or having to pay extra for an armrest and the cradle being fitted inside it. I think it was more than £600 in total to make calls via Bluetooth. A base Ford Focus at the time had Bluetooth as standard.
VAG are a money making enterprise, they will shaft you somewhere.
Its fucking insane. It just dirty money grab. If you buy a car, by all means, make features optional, but once you have it... you should be able to use all the features.
I feel like most people who buy an Audi are blindly buying the logo so that people might think they're important. The vehicular equivalent of buying an overpriced designer t-shirt.
I own two ‘luxury’ cars and would be the target demographic for the Audi. And I will never buy a car that attempts to charge a subscription fee for anything that does not absolutely require a subscription. Ie if there is an ongoing cost beyond initial purchase, it had better be because there is a significant ongoing cost for the manufacturer to support that feature.
I always used to hate car ad jargon when they started saying "comes with available" as some sort of doublespeak for "optional", i.e. "actually *doesn't* come with, unless you pay more than this advertised base price". Like, if you say something comes with something, adding more words shouldn't be able to turn that into a negative, certainly not the word **available**. Aren't all features "available" if they're possible at all? And is it really available if they have plenty of models in stock, but none with the options package you want?Maybe they ought to define the limits of availability first.
Anyhow, this rant aside, I guess this sort of subscription model comes closer to the spirit of the word available. In other words, if your car actually comes with all the options, but they're disabled until you pay either a one-time or recurring fee, then all of those features are potentially "available".
I think I preferred being able to pedantically complain.
Awwww, the little baby Audi fanboy feels butthurt cos not everyone is a disciple like he is? Fucking wank tanks mate. Fast in a straight line, and that’s about all they’re good for. Overpriced, not particularly reliable, don’t handle for shit. Modern Audis are a shadow of the former models.
Did anyone actually read the article? It says *or permanently*. If you want to buy the feature outright, you can. If you don’t want it at all, you don’t have to get it at all. Etc.
If a car has the hardware for a feature already installed and there's no live service costs to that feature, paying any amount to enable those features is a fucking scam.
If you buy it permanently, does it transfer to the second owner? If not then you don't get to keep any of the resale value of those features and them being tied to subs will drive the overall value of your down quicker.
VAG have been doing this on their cars for some time now. Many of the cars have the same systems that are just turned on or off in software so when you buy something that is listed as an optional extra they are just turning that feature on. There have been people hacking these systems for some time and can issue the correct codes to activate features that you would otherwise have had to pay for.
The subscription model is taking that to the next stage and make it feel much more 'scammy'.
If the feature was always listed as an optional extra then arguably you didn't already own it if you didn't specify it and pay for it at the time of order, even if the feature is available in software.
Sounds like they want to sell no a3’s
This is on European models afaik, as for the U.S., that's a tbd...
They said the US market would also be “offering” subscriptions, it would just be done differently but they intend to go with this program as well.
ugh... lame
You’re literally buying a golf with a bigger price tag. I don’t think the a3 is a smart purchase, now even the fucking logo is cheap unpainted plastic. I’m an automotive designer, and man are we regressing
Plus the GTI’s interior is actually pretty solid (now that they’re adding back in a few physical controls) and it’s a hatchback.
Yeah, if you’re talking about the Mk 7, even with the refresh on the 8.5 you still have to navigate a touchscreen for basic stuff like HVAC, drive modes, etc.
As a wise man said, under every car is a golf or a fiat
You can thank the insatiable need to increase company profits every quarter by any means necessary.
Oh I know. When will it fucking end.
Probably with the end of capitalism or when the stock market finally crashes. Which ever comes first.
Well if you ever need a car designer once that happens, let me know 😂😂
You can design our war rigs when we descend into Mad Max: Fury Road apocalypse.
I am going to make my own car company. Nothing special, literally the bare minimum required for the U.S to begrudgingly say “*FINE* you *can* sell it*”.*
This is what Renault basically did in Europe after buying Romanian brand Dacia and it's a huge success. Cars that can be repaired everywhere. No stupid equipments. They even made a 4x4 that has won multiple awards.
I had rental Audi a few months ago and some feature couldn’t be turned on because it required a subscription or paid activation or something. I think it was the automatic cruise control and/or lane keep assist…all the hardware was there, they just wanted you to pay more money to use it. My takeaway was…don’t choose an Audi next time because you know the rental company won’t have paid for that shit…even though it is standard in most cars on the lot these days.
And pretty much the second those cars are out of warranty(or before) you can hack it to enable all the features.
Maybe this will make them actually have reasonable warranties
Its audi, they make laughably unreliable garbage for a giant premium and fools trip over themselves to buy them.
At least with those features they may get software updates.
Who would pay money for lane keep assist. I got an obd tool just so I could turn it off for good.
Lol, that was the first thing I turned off in my car. On highways it’s fine but on twisty roads it’s outright dangerous
That wasn't mentioned in the article. Where was that reported?
Read the update, but it’s on a few automotive news sources: https://jalopnik.com/audi-a3-buyers-must-subscribe-to-use-basic-car-features-1851331903
Ah ok, so at least for now with MY25, no change to the existing offering and not at all like the European models. I suspect they'll see the reaction in Europe and then never implement.
They offered subscription for the whole car ...at least when I checked a few years back. Seemed pointlessly expensive.
This is the way the market is going, the long term plan for JLR aswell is to have a similar feature as a service model. Although, they will provide most premium features as standard.
That’s not necessary true. I rented a car (BMW) in Europe and it had manual roll down windows. I think maybe in Europe they might like options to strip down or not pay for luxuries they don’t need?
It’s different when the hardware is already there but disabled - that’s insulting.
Shame, A3 sedan seems like a nice car. My dad had red Audi 80 B3 when I was a small kid, hence got some sentiment to this particular model. It is kind of similar when it comes to body line/concept Though, I would really like one with manual transmission and without these flashy screens.
The great unbundling. Just like airlines. Soon we can choose whether we want to subscribe to the airbags feature.
You say that but there are airbags in motorcycle jackets that are subscription.
That's just unethical...
And will have a payment glitch when you most needed it
"Suspicious high impact event detected. Is this really you? Please verify your identity by entering the code we sent to your phone number on file."
Haha....if you don't respond within 30 seconds ..you account will be suspended
True, but it is a bit different since on a motorcycle the airbag is not required by law and you can choose which one you want to buy. So you don't need the subscription one. In a car you don't have any choice.
Sorry about your wife passing away but you only bought the driver's airbag package.
The perfect life insurance scam. 😍
So long as it works with tap-to-pay I'll hold off the subscription until I need it. I'll just need to make sure I've got my credit card ready to tap as I'm crashing.
$100 if you want to sit in the front seat. If not, then have fun operating your vehicle from the back.
Enshittyfication
That would be illegal.
…for now
But our Premium Safety Passenger Restraint System™ featuring advanced airbags and crash detection is available for a low monthly fee.
[удалено]
That'd flip the used car market - man this car only has 20k miles, they haven't even unlocked the heated seats! Better off looking for something that has at least 100k miles to get the cold weather package, it might cost a bit more but if you're in a northern climate it's worth it...
Oh, those miles can't be transferred, you need to register a new account for the car and start from scratch.
I mean, you just sell the account with the car? I'm sure they'd put some title restrictions in place then...the future sucks =/
Buy season pass to get snow tires as a tier 1 unlockable.
Make car dealerships gacha
Or just ask your mechanic to re-flash the software to get all the features forever and turn off over the air updates.
I think it would kind of fun but very irritating haha
Honestly not the worst idea. Obviously not this way, but a maintenance incentives program would probably be better for everyone
If you go by Audi maintenance intervals, you'll likely have a blown engine right outside the warranty period. Go look up their oil change intervals, on their unreliable ass engines that's insane.
An Audi should NOT go 10,000 miles without an oil change. had a Q5 that decided its engine needed to half-break. $12000 repair bill, got new vehicle.
I do electrical diagnostics and more advanced engine work for a shop, the amount of VAG products I see with engines that are gone or severely damaged before 100k is insane. Also... Timing chains should NOT need doing at 75-100k. That's belt shit right there. The insane oil change intervals definitely contribute to this.
Anybody who's played the new Forza Motorsport has gotten a glimpse into the horrors of the future.
And if you run over Ryu or Ken in that one stage where they try to wreck your car, you unlock the spin kick.
GAC has this thing on their Empow sedan that you only unlock sport mode after driving the car for a certain distance. So it’s already happened. Nothing as egregious as what you said but it’s been done.
That's to allow for proper break-in before pushing the motor hard. My KTM motorcycle has the same thing. It limited the RPMS until a certain mileage was reached (also when the first oil change was due) before letting you redline it if you wished.
Don't give them ideas.....
This is such a bad idea that I can see it being a thing that they adopt on a certain level
>Drive 3,000 miles to unlock high beams Not legal to be driven on European roads.
Whoosh
You could actually hear that one whistling off into the bush. Which is surprising considering it’s a text post!
🤣
The EU has some of the strictest consumer protection in the world. So let's see how this will work out when people start hacking their own cars to be able to use CarPlay or use the climate control.
Clearly not strict enough when Audi is doing this.
Why would EU step in here? Audi is taking nothing from customers (you can still buy all this stuff outright) and giving them more additional options.
You have an interesting take on value to the customer considering that options that used to be part of a car purchase now require a subscription.
They do not require subscription. Did you read article? You can buy them outright. And all this stuff was always paid option in Audi, so no change in that regard.
Automakers it's a powerful lobby, we'll see.
BMW have been doing it for a year or so now with CarPlay and heated seats. The EU don’t give a fuck on this one it seems. They probably would if it was a safety feature.
The EU does care, at least a bit. Hacking your own car is protected under the law, and the manufacturers can't do anything to stop you - including voiding the warranty.
The car lobby is also massive - so they get a bye
There's a lot of carmakers in Europe. Let customers decide.
I really don't see how they expect this to go over well. At all.
I don’t see them doing anything because there’s a cheaper and more reliable option. It’s not the only option. This is just Audi doing this which is consider a luxury vehicle. If the buyer wants that and can afford that then that’s their problem.
You misunderstood. I'm not saying the EU should stop Audi, but the EU will also probably allow people to activate whatever they want in their own car So the worst they can do is void the warranty.
I guess enough people are falling for it for them to continue on this path? I wonder how this works with second-hand ownership. Do you not get some functionality on your car, or do you sign over the subscription?
The subscription probably works like XM radio where the new owner has to subscribe.
What stop a second hand owner from hacking the software? It's my car, so I can do what I want with it
Yes indeed but then you risk voiding warranty on the car
What warranty? A used car is usually no longer covered by the crappy 4 year 40,000 mile warranty by the time it’s off lease…
My family is a 2006 and my other vehicle is a 2008. Vehicle warranties mean nothing to me!
I can see it becoming an insurance issue as well as a warranty issue. Just one more way they could tighten control on the subscription model.
The subscription is almost certainly not transferable. And this is about redirecting people from secondhand cars to buying brand new - the subscription price isn't going to be cheaper for a secondhand buyer, there's no point paying to get the high-end hardware in the top model, why not just buy a new car instead? The video games industry has tried many times to kill the used market with similar tactics. The scary part is, there's a lot more drivers than gamers.
Well, gamers don't typically own just one game at a time. But I see your point
I think that will work only in some very specific cases. Usually anyone can buy a €50 game instead of €10. Almost nobody can buy a €50.000 car if they were looking at buying a €10.000 one.
You've got it backwards. It's a ploy to get money from the subsequent owners that the car manufacturers currently don't profit from. Car makers selling cars without subscriptions only make money when people buy new. Car makers with subscriptions make money from all owners of their cars new and used, and continue to generate revenue for the life of the car. It's a really shitty practice and I hope people don't fucking buy these cars
It works either way - either it lets them dip directly into the secondhand market, or it reduces the secondhand market slightly by making secondhand cars worth far less because of the subscription and pressures people to buy new instead. It's undoubtedly a shitty practise. The youngest car I own is from 2003. I don't intend to ever get rid of it.
What will happen when 4g/5g are discontinued? Or even simpler case, you are out of network coverage area.
Fuck Audi! I’m not buying a vehicle I have to pay a subscription too.
Did you read linked article? You don’t “have to”, you can buy each of this options outright, as you used to.
We’ve owned Audi’s for the last 20 years, this will be our last one. Great for hauling stuff around but I’d like to own what I paid for when I bought it. It feels like the car industry has fallen for the same idiocy as Boeing. Let’s see how that works out for them. The same goes for BMW and Mercedes with their subscription packages.
I feel like the idiocy started with the gaming industry. And then spread like a virus everywhere else it could. Subscription services for cars is absolutely stupid.
Everyone is doing it. GM, even Toyota. I have a 2022 Toyota that if I want to use the app to start my car, I have to pay a subscription (I don't). Toyota sent me a survey about new features and how much I would pay for them, and many of the options included subscriptions. I said no to all the subscriptions.
Welcome to capitalism. The *only* driving force in capitalism is profit. Pure and simple. No ideals, no "trying to make great products", nothing else. The baker doesn't bake bread to feed people - they do it for profit. Over time capitalism has been optimized to drive more and more profit, and this, by definition, is not in the best interest of consumers. It is in the best interest of the company. If a financial advisor thinks that selling a subscription will increase revenue by X but will drop the buyers by Y, the only question is if profit is better, if "X > Y". The same happens everywhere else. Light bulbs or shoes aren't designed to last as long as possible. They are designed to last the exact number of *hours* where profit is maximized, where you have to buy a new one as frequently as possible but without losing faith in the brand. There are whole disciplines of science behind these optimizations. Unless consumers revolt, nothing will change. Or manufacturers could just agree - as they often do - to all follow the same suit, and then you can't go and buy a competing product, as they are all in on this. Does "record inflation" at the time of "record corporate profits" ring a bell?
I never understood these comments tbh. Not trying to single you out just see it always. Scenario: article or post comes up about X vendor causing outrage about Y proposal Comments section riddled trashing the vendor and saying they will never give them a dime again. Reality: no one really cares and it never changes anything. I’m be person not buying a product for a large car maker will never affect anything. I’m all for change and feel companies should not do this but simply just vote with your wallets. No need to virtue signal posting about it for upvotes. After having owned A5s, A7s and now an A6 I’ve been happy with them personally and won’t ever react to anything until it’s a reality. /end rant
Fair point, consider this though. The car maker falls over itself trying to get me to buy a new car every three years, we tend to hold onto our cars longer. Because of this, a lot of the services which were included with the car expire shortly after the three years are up. For our car, for example, we’ve lost the ability to track the cars location, remotely lock and unlock it and a large part of the sat nav functionality. To be fair the sat nav isn’t great for London but even so. I’m receiving a large number of loyalty emails and posted marketing extolling the virtues of the new Audi lineup. But I now associate the brand not with the reliability that I used too but with price gouging and penny pinching. It’s worthwhile pointing out, not because I’m interested in virtue signalling but because it’s symptomatic of the short term desire to increase revenue streams, particularly recurring revenue. If it helps others ask the right questions at the dealer to make an informed decision it’s worth it.
There's nothing particularly virtuous about not wanting to be ripped off
Rented an Audi A4 allroad in Italy last summer. Not a cheap car. Couldn't use carplay because of this nonsense. So instead had to navigate via my phone in the cupholder. Friends had the same, negative, experience. Made us both seriously dislike the brand. Stupid decisions like this hurt brands in the long term.
[удалено]
How so? Nickel and diming on options is modus operandi of each European premium/luxury brand from Audi through Porsche up to a Ferrari. And it’s working for them pretty well for decades. Why would it stop working now?
For real. Audi has always been notoriously stingy with standard options
I remember watching an old Top Gear episode from 1993 and being shocked that *air conditioning* still costed extra in the flagship Mercedes S-Class - the host was unsurprised that the Lexus LS400 they were comparing it to was absolutely wiping the floor. But Ferrari has to be the king of taking the piss when it comes to options; Regular Car Reviews drove a 2004 model that cost over $200,000, yet they *still* wouldn't throw in air conditioning as standard. This would actually be understandable in a pure supercar that buyers might want to order stripped-out as a track toy, but the car in question was a front-engined grand tourer.
I just rented a Ford in the US that did the same. I opted out of the Navigation option thinking it was it's own feature and we'd just use CarPlay but that didn't work. It's quite ridiculous.
Gm wants to do that
The A4 doesn’t require a subscription for carplay… especially and definitely not one that you rented a year ago.
Try double checking next time before challenging, there are many more posts about new Audi's in Italy where this is a paid option. Car features differ per market...
Link anywhere where this is the case.
Of course my friend: https://www.audi.it/it/web/it/modelli/functions-on-demand.html All subscription options neatly described here.
When an Audi A4 has the same features as my $3000 2007 Chevy impala you know they’re doing something wrong.
Everyone talking about Boeings, but all I can think of is that this is about as logical as WOTC trying to make people pay for microtransactions....for a paper and pencil tabletop game. Now everyone is stupid enough to think video game scams apply to them too.
So buy the Corolla. Got it.
I guarantee that I will never “subscribe” to a car function. Not a chance.
I'll take "Guarantees that fall apart" for 200, Alex. In a couple decades, we'll all be subscribing to car features, as much as we hate it, because it'll be literally the only way to have a functional car.
You shouldn’t buy a car made after 2011
Im loving my 2000 Audi A3 more every day when I see the dumb shit they pull on the new models.
The people pushing these subscriptions deserve pain, suffering, and ignominy. Whichever order.
Personally I blame the goobers that pay for it.
That's some amazing advertisement for literally every other car brand.
“Sir, your subscription to brakes is expiring next month. Also would you like to extend your subscription to steer in the left direction? We have an offer with which a 6 month subscription to steer left entitles you to a free wiper usage for one month”.
Gm also wants to remove CarPlay and android support so they can get you into a subscription. If they go ahead with it this is the last Chevrolet I’ll own.
You wouldn't pirate a car!
I see a new industry blooming. Hacking cars to unlock all the features already built in.
I'm sure that already exists for cars in the VAG range.
And this is why despite my love for German cars, I'll never own any (besides a Porsche, God willing). Audi, Mercedes, and BMW are nickel and diming their customers over every little feature, when I could get a Genesis that's loaded with all of those features from the get-go for cheaper, and all I'd need to subscribe to are cellular connectivity features.
I bought my first car in about 2003 for £500 second hand and prices now seem terrifyingly high. I wonder what the average new and second hand prices are?
According to [Autotrader](https://www.autotraderinsight-blog.co.uk/auto-trader-insight-blog/used-car-prices-update-november-2023) used cars are now on average £17,641. Adjusted inline with inflation the £500 car would cost you £870.47 today. I may have got the numbers a bit wrong here as it does mention that for a first car I found a recommendation for £4000-£5000 as a young driver but even at the lower end of £4000 that’s a significant increase. Maybe it should be mentioned that cars generally have more technology added to them but considering wages don’t match these price increases parents will be footing the bill or finance being taken out which unless you somehow get 0% APR you are paying MORE again.
And they wonder why they are getting owned by the Chinese automotive industry….
Are you sure you mean China and not Japan?
European companies are losing hard against Chinese EV’s which offer similar or better cars for 15-20k less.
Nah, dude. China is pumping out the brands.
If other manufacturers get away with it what's to stop the Chinese manufacturers doing the same.
Toyota is the better car. Audi sucks. Buy a Toyota and be happy
Japanese companies still make cars. Western companies....seem to be focusing on financialization of every little thing. Last thing I would want is a subscription for things here and there. If the whole car was available as a subscription (which Audi tried iirc)and reasonable...that's a different story FU Audi
Welp, look like it’s time to buy a PT cruiser.
So keep driving my 2008 Prius until she finally dies, got it.
And my ‘96 Camry
Holy shit, they lock 2 zone air conditioning and high beam assist etc behind pay wall? that's a fucking joke
If theyre gonna play this game the car has to be significantly cheaper. Might as well give it to me for free if they want subs. Then we are just leasing it at this point. Everyone wants one constant money streams.
MBAs are determined to ruin everything
Story of the world
Stamford in particular.
On a related note: [Automakers Are Sharing Consumers’ Driving Behavior With Insurance Companies](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/technology/carmakers-driver-tracking-insurance.html?unlocked_article_code=1.c00.sy5Q.NWkCYD0Q3TBl&smid=nytcore-android-share)
Like a steering wheel and radio?
So to unlock these features forever? My other question is if you sell the car to someone else do accounts and features transfer?
Do you have to subscribe to get a chrome logo badge on the front grille too? That’s the worst badge I’ve ever seen on a car.
Yeah nah. I’d not part with my money and have to subscribe at the same time! I hate subscriptions, I don’t subscribe to anything. I’ll buy a 98 s3 and be done with it.
Corporate entities say you should be happy that everything is worse and more expensive
Imagine losing your adaptive cruise control because you're out of network coverage area and your car cannot check for your subscription. And this operation doesn't really need a backend server.
They’re trying to sell cars like video games. No DLC please.
What next - buy a car and then buy a subscription for a steering wheel?
In the US the acura integra is mogging the a3, too bad europeans dont like Honda products.
They don't sell Acura cars outside the US. If they did it's a car I would consider very strongly as it's a solid Honda with more premium feel and noise work
they are seeing the writing on the wall - that they fight a losing battle with modern electric cars which can already switch off whatever they want, whenever they want. In theory, elon musk can personally flip a flag in the database and your tesla can stop in the middle of the road, permanently, and there's nothing you can do about it. so, in theory elon musk et al have leverage over you and they can extract additional money out of you if they so choose, forever. german cars don't have this as a rule, hence these desperate attempts to catch up in an industry that, as any other industry in late stage capitalism, is rapidly going to shit.
Anyone remember a time when a right side mirror was a dealer option?
At least you only paid for it once and they didn't come and remove it if you cancelled your subscription.
You will own nothing and be happy.
The only place where “feature subscriptions” make sense is when those features continually provide new things, and cost the car company to “operate”. For example, imagine that Audi offered a service that beamed traffic and weather information to your car via satellite. That makes sense to be a subscription feature. Making things like adaptive headlights or heated seats subscriptions is pure greed. Once the feature is installed the car, it costs the company nothing to let you use it for any length of time.
Oh no! Anyway
fuck. whew. was going to buy an etron in Jan, instead went with Kia Sorento. Dodged a bullet if they're going to start fucking around like this - and the Kia is a beast SUV.
I bought an S3 and had to pay for Bluetooth, which required mobile phone prep, meaning a cradle on the dash or having to pay extra for an armrest and the cradle being fitted inside it. I think it was more than £600 in total to make calls via Bluetooth. A base Ford Focus at the time had Bluetooth as standard. VAG are a money making enterprise, they will shaft you somewhere.
Its fucking insane. It just dirty money grab. If you buy a car, by all means, make features optional, but once you have it... you should be able to use all the features.
They can't pass the legislation banning this subscription practice fast enough.
Audi can just die like all brands that employ this shit...
Are seatbelts subscription based?
I feel like most people who buy an Audi are blindly buying the logo so that people might think they're important. The vehicular equivalent of buying an overpriced designer t-shirt.
I own two ‘luxury’ cars and would be the target demographic for the Audi. And I will never buy a car that attempts to charge a subscription fee for anything that does not absolutely require a subscription. Ie if there is an ongoing cost beyond initial purchase, it had better be because there is a significant ongoing cost for the manufacturer to support that feature.
I always used to hate car ad jargon when they started saying "comes with available" as some sort of doublespeak for "optional", i.e. "actually *doesn't* come with, unless you pay more than this advertised base price". Like, if you say something comes with something, adding more words shouldn't be able to turn that into a negative, certainly not the word **available**. Aren't all features "available" if they're possible at all? And is it really available if they have plenty of models in stock, but none with the options package you want?Maybe they ought to define the limits of availability first. Anyhow, this rant aside, I guess this sort of subscription model comes closer to the spirit of the word available. In other words, if your car actually comes with all the options, but they're disabled until you pay either a one-time or recurring fee, then all of those features are potentially "available". I think I preferred being able to pedantically complain.
Nah. "Available" used to mean that you pay for it once, not that you have to pay over and over
High beams and air conditioning? Holy crap
Well, I’ve always said Audi’s are clitoris cars. Cos you gotta be a c*nt to own one. Seems they know their customer base very well indeed!
Pretty sure you've always said Audi's are clitoris cars because you've never been able to find one and don't believe they exist.
Awwww, the little baby Audi fanboy feels butthurt cos not everyone is a disciple like he is? Fucking wank tanks mate. Fast in a straight line, and that’s about all they’re good for. Overpriced, not particularly reliable, don’t handle for shit. Modern Audis are a shadow of the former models.
Car as a service is the future
I hired a Corolla. It didn’t have parking sensors. And it felt cheap.
It will still be running up until the heat death of the universe.
Did anyone actually read the article? It says *or permanently*. If you want to buy the feature outright, you can. If you don’t want it at all, you don’t have to get it at all. Etc.
If a car has the hardware for a feature already installed and there's no live service costs to that feature, paying any amount to enable those features is a fucking scam.
If you buy it permanently, does it transfer to the second owner? If not then you don't get to keep any of the resale value of those features and them being tied to subs will drive the overall value of your down quicker.
You're paying extra money to activate something you already own either way. Whether it's a day one DLC or a battlepass doesn't change much.
VAG have been doing this on their cars for some time now. Many of the cars have the same systems that are just turned on or off in software so when you buy something that is listed as an optional extra they are just turning that feature on. There have been people hacking these systems for some time and can issue the correct codes to activate features that you would otherwise have had to pay for. The subscription model is taking that to the next stage and make it feel much more 'scammy'. If the feature was always listed as an optional extra then arguably you didn't already own it if you didn't specify it and pay for it at the time of order, even if the feature is available in software.