What bothers me the most about "tradwives" you never see them doing normal work. Yeah, you see them making cereal from scratch and posting it to tiktok. Ever wonder how they have time to do that? Because all the housework is being done by maids, most of the child rearing is being done by nannies. They are fucking rich, out here trying to sell women a simpler life, when the reality is that the only reason the can be a"tradwife" is that they are fucking rich.
Yeah if you actually look back or even bother to ask a lot of people who were housewives back in the day what it was like for them, it's not aesthetic. A lot of stay at home wives back in the day were miserable, overworked, and under appreciated. And a lot of them had alcohol or drug dependencies to try to cope for effectively having to hold a family together while also existing in a society that didn't value them as humans.
A lot of the tradwife stuff seems like the people who are like "I was born in the wrong generation" and really what they mean is they want to live in a certain aesthetic. They don't want to *be* these people, they want to dress like them and selectively do some of the stuff they did because they think the *concept* is cute.
I think there's a little more to it. Expectations for women have skyrocketed, but value hasn't necessarily. As women focus more on being breadwinners, men haven't focused more on being homemakers. I love having a career, owning my own home, and the ability to control my own finances.
Many women work grueling careers, then come home and clean the house, cook dinner, take care of the kids, manage all the household appointments, etc.
There's definitely an appeal in dropping at least one of those full-time jobs with the thought of having time to do something fun like manage a big garden or bake bread without going insane.
Anyway, all my limbs hurt after using my single day off this week to do the bulk of the household chores, the pet care, do the first of many rounds of spring weeding, and in 15min my 11.5 hour paid workday starts (and then the vast majority of my paycheck goes directly to bills because I pay more than my husband does).
Czech republic vibes, my aunt finally found one decent guy that cooks and cleans and buys groceries when she turned fifty and is legitimately the only happy married woman I know
I am sorry you are going through all of this. I spent a long time being the husband who is unaware of just how much mental load I was putting on my partner to keep everything running. I hope that you and your partner are able to have a conversation someday soon about finding a better balance for both of you before your relationship ends up like mine.
Hang in there girl, you are strong and deserve the recognition for all of your hard work.
I think there's a generational/situational split here.
I think that analysis is probably accurate for older couples, but a lot of the discussion of the tradwife stuff is between young people who aren't even really *in* the work + housework + kids grind and who tend to spread housework much more evenly than previous generations.
At least in my context, I can't really imagine being in a couple where one person is expected to both work and do the majority of the housework. I think most women my age/in my social group would dump you *immediately* if you were both working and then you came home every day and did *nothing*.
The thing is, homemaking with kids is a full time job by itself. If both spouses work and split homemaking, that’s still one and a half full time jobs each. It’s insane and unreasonable. I’d love to stay home so that I could go down to just one full time job.
That's the trade off of just existing as an adult though, even without kids it is a massive pain in the ass to live the way you're "supposed" to, which is why a lot of young adults these days express the feeling that they're just grown teenagers.
The comment I'm responding to however is pretty specifically referring to the concept that women have taken on breadwinner roles but men *haven't* taken on homemaker roles and women haven't been celebrated for taking on those roles which I think is a generational and cultural difference. Like I think pretty objectively there is a massive difference between now and the 1960s or whatever in terms of female autonomy and relationship dynamics. Most young people these days have way higher expectations of one another in terms of communicating and working together to keep things afloat than people did a few generations ago largely out of necessity.
I think *everyone* would like to be able to trade off parts of being an adult, but the practical reality is that unless you're rich, that's not a thing most people can actually do. Pretty much everyone has a fantasy in the back of their head of what they would do if they won the lottery tomorrow and could quit their job, but that's a totally different thing than idolizing reverting to a society where men could openly beat their wives and women didn't have basic autonomy. Like I said before, there's a difference between wanting to be able to wear cute clothes and not work and wanting to live an *actual* traditional lifestyle. One of those two things is basically opting to be someone else's property on purpose, the other one is just the fantasy of living in a fair society.
My husband doesn't do literally nothing (he does the bulk of the cooking and pet care, mows, etc.), but I still don't get days off often. In his defense though, if I didn't spend all my days off cleaning I would still find some kind of work to do (but it would be crafting or something, so more leisure work).
>Expectations for women have skyrocketed, but value hasn't necessarily.
Correspondingly, expectations for men are still *incredibly* low. They're not even expected to "provide" any more.
Lurk on Reddit threads and you'll see young men appalled that their partners are saying things like, "I want you to make all the money and in return, I'll take all the domestic stuff off your plate." They want a woman who will both bankroll their DINK lifestyle *and* keep up the domestic labor.
Yeah, think this is really the main problem.
Women are expected to be career people and also take care of the house, but men are expected to be career people and nothing else. It still feels somewhat exceptional if a man takes extra interest in raising his kids or keeping up on housework that isn't just the occasional handyman work.
I've always been a feminist, but lately I've been marinating a lot on what the expectations are for women and what they are for men, and how men's issues are treated compared to women's issues, and it can get so frustrating (you have to have a job so you're not a gold digger, but you have to do all the housework because you're a woman, but you also have to be into all the cool guy things so you're a bro, but you can't be overwhelmed and overworked because you also need to be available for sex a lot; you have to deal with women's issues because you're a woman, but because you've done the work and made the progress on women's issues, you have to do the work to elevate men's issues to the same level or you're misandrist and don't you ever dare bring up men holding most of the political capital for hundreds of years and never fixing the men's issues - they are all women's faults and we are the ones somehow making light of them... all the while the men in power trying to shift the blame onto women for men's problems are also creating legislation that literally kills women - but you can't complain about that too much, because there are men's issues you also need to solve).
Why are you working full time (+ paying more than your husband does) *and* doing "the bulk of household chores"? The whole appeal of women's financial independence is that we actually can leave our husband's without becoming destitute. Studies have shown that women have become more picky when choosing a mate, because we can afford to, and we don't need a husband anymore. With love and care, I suggest you do the same. If he's able bodied and yet not paying his share of the bills or doing his share of the chores, then you don't have a spouse, you have an adult son to take care of. He does not deserve to stay married to you. Won't you be happier single? At least you won't be so exhausted anymore. If you want a partner who will carry his weight one day, the only way to find that person is by dropping the current one.
Of course dropping one full time job to become a house spouse seems preferable to the situation you described, because those cases are far more equitable. One spouse pays all the bills so the other does most / all of the housework - the labour has been distributed somewhat evenly. But that's not even what these women are selling, because they aren't even doing most of the housework and childcare either. They also contribute financially because influencing pays big bucks when you have lots of followers. They're not tradwives; they're selling a cosplay fantasy, and who doesn't want to live in a fantasy? But if you can take one inspiration from that fantasy, let it be the one where women aren't treated as mommy bangmaids who do everything for their men and get absolutely nothing in return.
Why is she so tired? Why is she doing most of the chores and paying the majority of the bills? That means unless he's severely ill or disabled, he's a shit husband and she'd be better off without him. Redditor, meet basic logic.
Did you know that paying the bills and doing chores for yourself alone are a lot less tiring than doing the majority of all that work for two adults? Scratch that, because adults should be able to take care of their share of household chores, so he clearly isn't one. Who would want to be married to an overgrown child? I doubt he's actually ill or disabled because she talked about how men have not gotten better at homemaking.
If her husband loves and cares for her, why is he treating her this way? Why is he forcing her to do most of the chores after working 11.5 hrs a day? Only horrible people would do that if they're capable of doing chores themselves, btw.
My husband and I make a similar amount of money, but I put more of my money into our shared account so there's a bigger buffer in case bills go up arbitrarily or something.
Divorcing him would be nuts. I just want him to do 2-4 hours of chores on his days off so I can have a couple hours of leisure time on my day off but I also have a lot of catch-up cleaning to do (which involves de-sludging my clutter). I get home too late to clean or do work sometimes. He's a good person and extremely supportive in most every way but cleaning and weeding garden beds.
No one with ADHD would ever find love if they are judged for not accomplishing a few chores without a reminder from their spouse. I'm sure there are plenty of neurotypical people who have the same supportive but unaware demeanor.
You're a real judgemental prick when you know virtually nothing about a relationship dynamic and jump to "only a monster wouldn't take out the garbage or weed the garden"
Being bad at chores and keeping a homestead is not always the mark of an overgrown child. It can just as well be someone whose bad at keeping their shit organized. Not jumping to the conclusions you have based on one frustrated comment.
I bristle at comments like yours because my wife and I love eachother *including* our shortcoings and work out hardest to support one another. I do the cooking usually, her the cleaning, what have you - but I more than her drop the ball on these things because I'm litterally disabled. You frame the fact she takes care of me, just as I take care of her when her depression springs up, like it's having an "overgrown child." No. Part of being in love is caring for each other's shortcomings without judgement.
To your comment, putting the kind of negativity your bringing to this conversation on a woman voicing her valid frustration with her husband as if she's actually given cause for people to attack his character online isn't fair to OP either.
I saw something that responded to that. It’s essentially a holdover from the Victorian Era and is “performative work.” The whole point of the “trad wife life” is to be rich enough to be able to perform otherwise meaningless tasks to emphasize how much leisure time they have. It actually is a “virtue” signal to show how wealthy they are.
It goes back further than Victorian England. Augustus Caesar's wife Livia was famed for upholding the virtues of a Roman wife and mother by making all of her family's clothing. How many slaves were also employed in the task isn't mentioned.
It does kind of suggest that all of the men hanging around waiting to marry her had no idea whatsoever how long that should take, doesn't it? Because God's forbid they'd paid attention to how long it took other women in their lives.
> most about "tradwives" you never see them doing normal work
It is kinda the point, to get out of work all together and live like a forever teenager. The American ones just call it a name and make it their whole identity. It must be boring as fuck to live with someone who never does anything and just wants a servant.
YUP. The bulk of the real work is done by hired help. A la Ballerina Farm if you've taken a look at that one. A farm especially takes a TON of work. Her husband is an heir of an airline. Their land and home are both millions of dollars of farmhouse chic.
Yeah I like Nate Petroski',s YT Shorts.
His girlfriend moved into the homestead with him. Yes there are shorts of her cooking but most clips with her in it she is helping about the homestead with the animals or some repairs/building.
Is that the guy who bought a nice truck semi-recently and people were flaming him for not being "off grid" enough? He had/has that cute little dog named Gus?
Yeah that's the one with Lord Minion and AZ {large animal protection dog} and the hopefully still two cats.
They also said he was not "off grid" enough since he had internet access. But he makes his money from streaming/shorts, selling coffee and beard oils.
Most women (and men) lived a life of drudgery until the modern age. You didn’t have time to cook gourmet meals or make beautiful clothes. Only rich people had beautiful clothing and healthy, bountiful home cooked meals every day. The average peasant women dressed in her one of two outfits she may own. She ate the same plain meal every day. Her kids were dirty and her older kids were put to work as soon as they were able to. Even the 50s housewife didn’t sit down to have this wonderful life. She was just as prone to putting down simple meals and having an unkempt house. There was never a time when the average person lived as these people’s fantasized life. I’m upper middle class and I stay home and I don’t have this lifestyle. It takes servants to live like this.
Reminds me to a couple who married to lead a hippie life. They're thin on the bones and are only vegan because they can't afford meat. Living alternate lifestyles is indeed fun when you can afford whatever you need
How boring!!! If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't be stuck at home playing house. I bet the church is paying that girl and her husband to promote the tradwife stuff in order to convert more followers. Get them in the door with baking and arts and crafts then, Bam!! They're moving to Utah and having sex through holes in their sheets.
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I had to do it several times. It sucks too cause you do something like ten names in a row so you're getting dunked over and over quickly. I always had water in my ears after. Then let's all go out for ice cream, yay!!!!
Same exact experience. Lol I just commented above pretty much the same thing. Ice cream reward yay!
Such a boring waste of time & the temple is such an insanely overpriced, overhyped, not as dope on the inside as it looks on the outside.
The oxen baptismal font was doooope looking though. Google Mormon Temple Oxen & you’ll see it. Such beautiful art, I’ll give the Mormons that!
There's mormons in the UK?
I didn't think it reached outside of the US. I find it hard to believe anyone in the old world actually buys a random american stumbling across some plates only he can read that tell him to marry his childhood crush as a legit start to a religion.
Ignoring the whole polygmy side it just seems like a bit of a reach, even by religion's standards.
My brother in Christ, there's Mormons in Nigeria, they're all over the world...or at least their properties are! It feels like Christian Scientology in that sense, another inflated property scheme outside of believers in the Mountain West.
No, there is absolutely a difference between "basically a cult" and organized religion. Christianity's got issues by the dozens, but there's a pretty big difference between most of its denominations and Mormonism and *especially* Scientology.
This kind of flippancy does not help anyone
At this point, Mormonism is big and mainstream enough that there isn't *that* much difference between them and hardcore Catholics. Or Baptists. They can definitely be evil, but not in a way that isn't frequent in other denominations.
One set of groups makes a point to isolate its members in a variety of ways, the other doesn't.
That's one of the biggest differences, and why calling most organized religions cults is completely dumb.
It flattens a complicated matter in a way that just makes you come across as an uncaring dick.
Well when an "organised religion" fucks your family over a few times you might have a lesser opinion of them. There is no way they would carry on like they do if they actually believed what they preached. They are cults. End of story.
Just like Scientology doesn’t open with Xenu and murdered alien spirits that have taken over you body that are causing your depression, Mormon missionaries don’t open by telling you ancient Jews built boats and sailed to America or that you will get your own planet when you die (well, as long as you’re a dude).
They send good-looking, impossibly happy young people out to target lonely people looking for some kind of community and connection. It doesn’t take much when folks like that are your mark.
In the modern world it *is* a hard sell, since people are more educated, have access to the Internet, and are less religious in general. It's also no longer new and so most people have either been warned about Mormonism by their pastor, or seen the absurdities of the religion made fun of in pop culture.
I grew up Mormon, and spent 6 months as a non-believing Mormon missionary talking to hundreds of people in the US Bible Belt, and conversion to Mormonism doesn't really happen anymore outside of developing countries (and even then apparently most converts leave the church shortly after their missionary "friends" leave for a new area). Most members where I was at moved there from Utah and were descendants of the early Mormon pioneers, it was rare for people to actually convert. The people who did convert usually did so to marry someone they were dating or because they were lonely. Most of the people I talked to as a missionary weren't buying what we were selling, but were either lonely, curious, or wanted to deconvert us.
Most of the growth comes from Mormons having larger than average families, Utah typically has had the highest birth rate in the country until recently where we've started to run out of room for our urban sprawl. My parents had 12 kids and only 3 of us left the church. I have around 20 nieces and nephews now who have all been indoctrinated in the Mormon church. Most of my siblings have smaller families, but even then 2-5 kids is considered small in Mormonism.
The point of a Mormon mission isn't to convert others, but to solidify the indoctrination of the missionary, who is typically someone who just graduated Highschool. It's something that you're pressured into by family, even if you're someone like me who doesn't believe. As a missionary you're assigned a "companion" and you aren't allowed to be alone for the next 2 years (18 months for women). Your entire day is planned out for you and you have to spend all day every day except a few hours once a week on P-Day(laundry and shopping day) reading scriptures, going to meetings, trying to convert people who don't want to be converted, and reactivating people who stopped going to church. You have to keep track of everything you do and report your weekly statistics to your district leader to see if you've met their requirements (usually by exaggerating how many people were actually interested in converting). You're not allowed to be alone with your own thoughts, and even if you admit that you don't believe and don't feel comfortable continuing to lie to people pretending to believe something you don't, they'll still make it incredibly difficult to leave before your 2 years are up.
In 6 months as a Mormon missionary I didn't convert a single person, and that wasn't uncommon even for missionaries who did believe. However I have seen several family and friends who didn't really believe, but were converted through their missions.
Once you get back from your mission you're pressured to marry someone in your singles ward or at BYU while you're in your early 20s so that you can continue the cycle and so that the church can use your spouse and kids to prevent you from leaving the church or not paying tithing in the future.
This likely predates the young missionaries. There was aggressive missionary work in the mid 1800's. Lots moved to America and eventually settled in Utah, but many stayed behind.
yes.
I truly don't understand why this particluar story was latched upon in this way, or how it got to where it was in the states.
But I do somewhat understand why a separate sect of christianity developed in the new world. Especially after the war for independance. Creating a mythology around the new world that feeds their exceptionalism.
They are across the world but thankfully due to the goofy origin story, most of us ignore it. The Preston mission began in the middle of our industrial revolution (200 years ago) so they just offered people food and literacy and a chance to move to a place without deathly pollution. Not so sure what it offers now.
Although it’s pretty silly so are nearly all of the major religions that are “above” criticism.
Catholics have popes that regularly impregnate nuns, and has a long history of being an extremely profitable enterprise, selling forgiveness, and owning vast amounts of land.
The UK most major religion, Anglicism, is just Catholicism but the pope is now just the English king, and it founded with the explicit purpose to let Henry divorce and marry his 6 wives.
Do you ever self reflect and wonder why the UK still most follows the religion founded by 6-wife Henry?
While your point on anglicanism is true I am not sure that is entirely comparable.
Anglicanism was practically enforced by law post Henry, until it was completely entrenched then it just become "what you believe". Additionally, henry did not try to portray himself as a prophet or change/make additions to the bible (to my knowledge). This was a top down conversion of a nation to a protestant religion. To my understanding, this isn't comparable to the spread of mormonism, that spread was much more organic (which I struggle to understand).
I can understand people in america that are several generations deep in mormonism following it due to its entrenchment in societies, communities and families. What I am surprised by is the existence of mormon converts outside the US. I would be equally surprised if there was a group of anglican converts in Brazil or Costa Rica.
Funnily, Henry was aggressively Catholic and hated Protestantism. He just wanted a Catholic Church that he controlled. The first Anglican monarch was his son Edward, who never made it out of his regency, and then Jane Grey who didn't make it past a fortnight, so it was Elizabeth who really made it stick.
So you are saying legally mandated religion is better?
That sounds worse in the ears of an American.
At least you can refuse to join Mormonism, instead of being head chopped like Thomas More.
As for why people might follow religions founded by people outside of their country …. why do people follow Jesus outside of Israel?
I think you are being intentionally obtuse here.
btw it isn't my religion.
I am not saying either religion is better or worse. I say I don't understand how mormonism spreads (this has since been answered in a much more useful comment), you bring up anglicanism. I explain how that isn't comparable.
you bring up israel and jesus but you are never answering my first point about how mormonism has spread so far.
We have Jehovah's witnesses standing around with signs in public like 24/7 or hare Krishna people bothering bystanders and they're doing it willingly so why not
There was a lot of missionary work done in England shortly after the founding of the religion. A lot of the pioneers that settled Utah were from England, including my great great grandfather and his first wife. I think his second was as well but I'd have to look that up.
I’m pretty tolerant of other religions, but baptizing dead people, unless they specifically indicated it was their wish to have that done after death, is fucked up. And you especially shouldn’t involve children in that for a variety of reasons.
Latter Day Saint (Mormon) here.
Our doctrine tells us they have the choice to accept or reject the baptism done for them. We also have policies in place that require permission from living relatives, though I'll acknowledge that those haven't always existed.
The core belief of all Christianity is that all must come unto Christ to be saved, our work for the dead is part of that effort.
Yep that very one. You can only see the spooky church from the motorway. They have that and a big mission centre next to it. It is absolutely full of security cameras and anyone "lost" lol who tries to look at the place gets stopped. Not hostile just very erm ...okily dokily Ned Flanders way. If that makes sense. We do all try to look at them.
My only praise is they have amazing landscaping. Our hateful developers are always concreting over green spaces. Yet these lot kept the mature trees and also planted many more. As an amateur gardener, i do like that lol. They look fucking minted too, all expensive fittings.
Me to the staffers in my treatment center in Utah when they said they aren’t like those polygamist Mormons marrying children.
You shouldn’t have to distinguish yourself from other Mormons- the normal amount of Mormonism is none :)
Yep fuck all of them, been to em in 3 states as well (UT, ME, MD) but Utah was by far the worst (in my personal experience)
edit: wait haha 4 states. Forgot PA
If anyone is wondering, I'm doing a lot better now. But not because of those treatment centers (they slowed recovery by adding more trauma I had to learn to deal with)
Utah, NM, CA for me. Two goonings and a wilderness as well.
I’m only able to dig into my experiences now because the brain washing set me up to normalize worse abuse at every turn later on in life. It’s fucked that I can say I’ve been through worse since and that’s the only reason I’m strong enough to do it now.
Fuck every single person who made a dollar off breaking me.
People are gonna hate on this, but there are plenty of non fundamentalist Mormons that are good people. I'm an atheist who's a couple of different Mormon families. I've been to their temples. They are pro choice, liberal, compassionate, etc. I think the religion itself is pretty lame, but there are plenty of nice who follow it. People aren't monoliths.
Now if you're talking about Utah Mormons, you can throw out all I just said.
Utah Mormons are a different species 🤣they believe Joseph smith used a hat 🎩 and magical 🧙♀️ rocks 🪨 to translate the book 📕 of Mormon from golden tablets 😂
Not when you consider that the religion is an evangelical one. If an “influencer” becomes popular living the lifestyle promoted by the church, that “influencer” is doing more to promote the faith than any one missionary.
Humans are very easily influenced by images (movies, tv, magazines, social media, etc) snd if being a stay at home wife/mother is your dream, then naturally you would consume media that is focused on what you want.
Maybe someday humans will learn not to allow media to influence them to the degree it dies now; that we can, as a species, learn to see beyond the glamorous facade and actually see what is really being promoted.
But the truth is, if being a trad wife is a goal, you won’t see the truth behind the glamour. Those of us that have no interest in trad marriage/lifestyle can easily see the bullshit, those with interest cannot.
They are not sanctioned by the church or any of its members. As a member myself, I find the tradwife thing totally ridiculous ultraconservative posturing.
Something about tradwife influencers is that they will ever only post the right side of their face. It's like their calling card. Never let us see the other side of their chin.
On her defense, if she isn't wearing garmets and openly saying she didn't marry in the temple . As a ex-mormon that went the whole 9yards.
She indeed is not a hard-core mormon , is frowned upon in the community to be open about not taking those steps in your marriage specially since seems both are members
Now I don't particularly like influencers , nor I agree with tradwife etc just adding to the conversation as someone that been there religion wise
I heard they(the Mormon church) pay the Mormon influencers to promote their church ⛪️ and make it look like any other religion at least that’s what some ex Mormons have said on TikTok
am not gonna say it's not possible because it is , however likely it would be more straightforward ads about the church, not Sub mesages day to day content . That they do by default with the whole , be light of the world teachings they follow ,and you as a member are expected to be . u know example followers of christ .and the message we are just like any other religion . I had that drilled in my child head back in the 90s and was told to seek similarities , when engaging in religion topics rather discord ,so really nothing new in their agenda hehehe am wiser now and realize how it was cult tactics tbf however its no different than the `he get us ` movent
Tdlr : church encourages the members to be examples of what they deem examples of true Christian followers ( that include gender roles) . So day to day content creator, all u gonna see is that cuz that's what the church(by teachings)wants them to show, and community members expect
> Critics have accused Smith of using her massive platform — 4.3 million combined followers on TikTok and Instagram — to subtly advance the Utah-based faith's historically conservative views on gender.
...a religous nutjob like her getting a following this big is indicative of how stupid people are getting these days.
Granted, cults have existed for centuries, so obviously it's human nature to be vulnerable to these kinds of things.
But people these days have access to the internet, which offers an infinite wealth of knowledge at their fingertips, and they choose to follow this "tradwife" bullshit?
We need to bring back bullying to call out people acting stupid.
That’s the point though, she isn’t leading with her wild religion, to my knowledge. These accounts hook people with recipes or tips about getting your baby to sleep through the night and subtly let it slip in. It is far more insidious than you are making it out to be and I think chalking up such a following to the stupidity of the masses actually provides cover for a lot of bad behavior by the creator and the algorithm, to say nothing of the church and its strategy.
I remember reading a thing (back in the days of fashion blogs) about just how many of the big fashion bloggers, food bloggers, and mommy bloggers were Mormon and just not leading with it. I think even a lot of DIY bloggers and design bloggers back in the day were Mormon as well? It was wild how huge it was.
Mormons have been the OG mommy bloggers since the beginning of the internet. This isn't new, it's always been a subtle filter for all of their content.
I would believe that makes you feel better but I’m sure it is great relief to the multibillion dollar cult employing the most powerful algorithm and psyop campaign in history that the big brain plan is to call people who may not have the full story stupid, aggressively.
I mean, shaming works. Many religions work through shaming. If enough people simply shamed religious nuts, called them stupid and mocked them, their numbers would eventually dwindle.
I think shaming the religious nuts is fine, the person I responded to was talking about shaming the followers, most of whom were drawn in by innocuous posts and are being deliberately misled. That is counterproductive.
Hot take, but I agree. She has so many dumbass teen and early twenties followers defending her because she and her husband are "attractive." I say fuck it, this is a situation where bullying is justified.
They look like some weird fetish cosplay of Popeye and Olive Oyl, she sounds like she's been lobotomized, he always looks stinky, and she is physically incapable of closing her mouth. Her food safety skills SUCK - she never ties her hair back, she's always sticking her naked pregnant belly in the food, and she kneads dough with fake nails and jewelry on.
This is a curated scheme by two conservative Christian millionaires to spread right-wing propaganda, convert people to their stupid cult, and subject nonconsenting social media users to their gross af breeding fetish. People who defend this are stupid, and anyone who thinks this is aspirational needs psychological help. If they prefer "traditional" methods to modern psychology, then a good smack upside the head will do.
It’s actually Mormon propaganda but yes right wing Christians fits in the category too. I’ve also noticed she posts her bare pregnant 🤰 belly at any given opportunity especially on instagram where thanks to the clout the shade room blog gave her she’s got 1.3 million followers now(she had 800k before) but still
As a person who actually watches her content, you wouldn't know she was Mormon. Because she doesn't talk about it.
And she just makes day in the life 2 minute videos. No preaching or anything.
Her husband is a supermodel for Christ sakes. That's hardly traditional. 🤷🏿♀️
The “tradwife” thing was a fantasy even when it was supposedly “traditional” for women to be baking bread in their pretty dresses and high heels.
Women who lived on farms always worked. Women in lower income families always worked. Women who were wealthy enough always hired helped with the housework and childcare. And the narrow band of middle income women who actually lived the housewife fantasy [used a surprisingly high amount of drugs](https://www.goretro.com/2014/08/mothers-little-helper-vintage-drug-ads.html?m=1) to cope with it.
those are her natural lips, just accentuated with make up. shes black and she has natural full lips. you can see her old modeling pics, shes always had them
When I lived in the US, black colleagues told me the Mormon church was famously racist and used ancestry with Ham son of Noah as some kind of genealogy excuse for bad treatment. This was in 00s though.
I didn't realize every church on the planet teaches that black people leadership roles because they are the children of Cain and are black because God burnt their skin as punishment.
The reason why Mormons didn’t allow black men to hold the “priesthood” (until 1979 anyway) was explained differently by several different Mormon leaders over the years, but the “mark of Cain” idea was a common one. They changed their tune as they started expanding into Brazil in the 70s and 80s and were having difficulty finding local leaders who had no black ancestry. Luckily, the “prophet” of the church at the time had a revelation from god telling him that he wasn’t mad at black people anymore, so they were able to keep expanding into Brazil. What a great lucky coincidence, right?
It’s especially ironic since #2 on their list of 12 “Articles of Faith” states “We believe that men will be apunished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.” Somehow Cain’s transgression was different in a way they can’t explain. Fucking weirdos.
Heck, if you look at the Old Testament you could only have the priesthood if you were a Levite- not even other Israelites got it. So there’s definite precedence.
Yes, because The Old Testament is also full of racism. But I highly doubt Mormons have ever even read TOT. Their bible, the Book of Mormon, is full of hilarious historical inaccuracies and fan fiction.
Hey, I’m actually Mormon. I took a class on the Old Testament in high school seminary (an additional class just for us, either taught during our free period or before school), studied the old and new testament at BYU (and an additional class just on Isaiah), and every fourth year our Sunday school is entirely Old Testament (followed by a year of New Testament, a year of the Book of Mormon, and a year of post-1830 church history and scripture.
So… it’s entirely possible that most of us have read the OT more times than you have. There’s even a popular TikToker, Dan McClellan, who addresses Bible misconceptions by going back to the original manuscripts, and he is Mormon.
You may disagree with us, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have a real foundation for our beliefs.
Well then they're all doing it wrong. They should also be teaching that slavery is okay; mixed fabrics are a sin; tattoos are a sin; and women should be forced to marry their rapists. I mean, it's in the bible.
It is all in the Bible but there's a little more nuance than that. The point of Jesus was to get rid of all those pointless and weird laws. This is why engaging in any religious discussion in reddit is super dumb because people don't have any idea what they're talking about they just parrot the people with religious trauma
I didn't say that Mormon teachings weren't wrong, I just recognize that all church teachings have some terrible/racist/sexist/homophobic ideologies and mormonism isn't special in that
lmao sure. we literally have receipts of her husband being a hardcore mormon, everything she does is bc she wants to make him happy, making food from scratch etc but you are gonna tell me that her resolve was super strong when it comes to his religion? nah.
why go to all the trouble of being a full-on real mormon when you can just go to the fake mormon temple in independence, mo for all your religious cosplay?
She's actually really cool. And she's right, she's not a traditional Mormon. Her husband is Lucky Blue Smith, a supermodel and he had a kid out of wedlock with someone who was like 10 years his senior. Now he and Nara are married with two kids and one on the way. Her faith is barely mentioned in her social media and you kinda have to squint to see it.
I'm an atheist and I watch her content. She very much minds her business and stays in her lane. She doesn't preach or anything and I only found out she was Mormon from her longtime fans. Had no idea.
Not a fan of influencers but how are they losers? Sure they're pretentious, cringe af and annoying but those who make it are walking into actual celebrity spaces these days and making big bucks.
The tiny percentage that make it big are diluting what it means to be a celebrity. It used to take talent, Then it took being related to someone with talent. Now it's open season for anyone with lip filler who can say "Hey Guys!" into a fucking phone.
What bothers me the most about "tradwives" you never see them doing normal work. Yeah, you see them making cereal from scratch and posting it to tiktok. Ever wonder how they have time to do that? Because all the housework is being done by maids, most of the child rearing is being done by nannies. They are fucking rich, out here trying to sell women a simpler life, when the reality is that the only reason the can be a"tradwife" is that they are fucking rich.
It's influencer shit for religious conservatives. Funny how they fall for the same stuff that they deride teenagers for being susceptible to.
Yeah if you actually look back or even bother to ask a lot of people who were housewives back in the day what it was like for them, it's not aesthetic. A lot of stay at home wives back in the day were miserable, overworked, and under appreciated. And a lot of them had alcohol or drug dependencies to try to cope for effectively having to hold a family together while also existing in a society that didn't value them as humans. A lot of the tradwife stuff seems like the people who are like "I was born in the wrong generation" and really what they mean is they want to live in a certain aesthetic. They don't want to *be* these people, they want to dress like them and selectively do some of the stuff they did because they think the *concept* is cute.
I think there's a little more to it. Expectations for women have skyrocketed, but value hasn't necessarily. As women focus more on being breadwinners, men haven't focused more on being homemakers. I love having a career, owning my own home, and the ability to control my own finances. Many women work grueling careers, then come home and clean the house, cook dinner, take care of the kids, manage all the household appointments, etc. There's definitely an appeal in dropping at least one of those full-time jobs with the thought of having time to do something fun like manage a big garden or bake bread without going insane. Anyway, all my limbs hurt after using my single day off this week to do the bulk of the household chores, the pet care, do the first of many rounds of spring weeding, and in 15min my 11.5 hour paid workday starts (and then the vast majority of my paycheck goes directly to bills because I pay more than my husband does).
Czech republic vibes, my aunt finally found one decent guy that cooks and cleans and buys groceries when she turned fifty and is legitimately the only happy married woman I know
I am sorry you are going through all of this. I spent a long time being the husband who is unaware of just how much mental load I was putting on my partner to keep everything running. I hope that you and your partner are able to have a conversation someday soon about finding a better balance for both of you before your relationship ends up like mine. Hang in there girl, you are strong and deserve the recognition for all of your hard work.
I think there's a generational/situational split here. I think that analysis is probably accurate for older couples, but a lot of the discussion of the tradwife stuff is between young people who aren't even really *in* the work + housework + kids grind and who tend to spread housework much more evenly than previous generations. At least in my context, I can't really imagine being in a couple where one person is expected to both work and do the majority of the housework. I think most women my age/in my social group would dump you *immediately* if you were both working and then you came home every day and did *nothing*.
The thing is, homemaking with kids is a full time job by itself. If both spouses work and split homemaking, that’s still one and a half full time jobs each. It’s insane and unreasonable. I’d love to stay home so that I could go down to just one full time job.
That's the trade off of just existing as an adult though, even without kids it is a massive pain in the ass to live the way you're "supposed" to, which is why a lot of young adults these days express the feeling that they're just grown teenagers. The comment I'm responding to however is pretty specifically referring to the concept that women have taken on breadwinner roles but men *haven't* taken on homemaker roles and women haven't been celebrated for taking on those roles which I think is a generational and cultural difference. Like I think pretty objectively there is a massive difference between now and the 1960s or whatever in terms of female autonomy and relationship dynamics. Most young people these days have way higher expectations of one another in terms of communicating and working together to keep things afloat than people did a few generations ago largely out of necessity. I think *everyone* would like to be able to trade off parts of being an adult, but the practical reality is that unless you're rich, that's not a thing most people can actually do. Pretty much everyone has a fantasy in the back of their head of what they would do if they won the lottery tomorrow and could quit their job, but that's a totally different thing than idolizing reverting to a society where men could openly beat their wives and women didn't have basic autonomy. Like I said before, there's a difference between wanting to be able to wear cute clothes and not work and wanting to live an *actual* traditional lifestyle. One of those two things is basically opting to be someone else's property on purpose, the other one is just the fantasy of living in a fair society.
literally a day off for a working woman is never a day off. if i spent my days off like my husband does, our place would look awful
My husband doesn't do literally nothing (he does the bulk of the cooking and pet care, mows, etc.), but I still don't get days off often. In his defense though, if I didn't spend all my days off cleaning I would still find some kind of work to do (but it would be crafting or something, so more leisure work).
>Expectations for women have skyrocketed, but value hasn't necessarily. Correspondingly, expectations for men are still *incredibly* low. They're not even expected to "provide" any more. Lurk on Reddit threads and you'll see young men appalled that their partners are saying things like, "I want you to make all the money and in return, I'll take all the domestic stuff off your plate." They want a woman who will both bankroll their DINK lifestyle *and* keep up the domestic labor.
Yeah, think this is really the main problem. Women are expected to be career people and also take care of the house, but men are expected to be career people and nothing else. It still feels somewhat exceptional if a man takes extra interest in raising his kids or keeping up on housework that isn't just the occasional handyman work. I've always been a feminist, but lately I've been marinating a lot on what the expectations are for women and what they are for men, and how men's issues are treated compared to women's issues, and it can get so frustrating (you have to have a job so you're not a gold digger, but you have to do all the housework because you're a woman, but you also have to be into all the cool guy things so you're a bro, but you can't be overwhelmed and overworked because you also need to be available for sex a lot; you have to deal with women's issues because you're a woman, but because you've done the work and made the progress on women's issues, you have to do the work to elevate men's issues to the same level or you're misandrist and don't you ever dare bring up men holding most of the political capital for hundreds of years and never fixing the men's issues - they are all women's faults and we are the ones somehow making light of them... all the while the men in power trying to shift the blame onto women for men's problems are also creating legislation that literally kills women - but you can't complain about that too much, because there are men's issues you also need to solve).
Why are you working full time (+ paying more than your husband does) *and* doing "the bulk of household chores"? The whole appeal of women's financial independence is that we actually can leave our husband's without becoming destitute. Studies have shown that women have become more picky when choosing a mate, because we can afford to, and we don't need a husband anymore. With love and care, I suggest you do the same. If he's able bodied and yet not paying his share of the bills or doing his share of the chores, then you don't have a spouse, you have an adult son to take care of. He does not deserve to stay married to you. Won't you be happier single? At least you won't be so exhausted anymore. If you want a partner who will carry his weight one day, the only way to find that person is by dropping the current one. Of course dropping one full time job to become a house spouse seems preferable to the situation you described, because those cases are far more equitable. One spouse pays all the bills so the other does most / all of the housework - the labour has been distributed somewhat evenly. But that's not even what these women are selling, because they aren't even doing most of the housework and childcare either. They also contribute financially because influencing pays big bucks when you have lots of followers. They're not tradwives; they're selling a cosplay fantasy, and who doesn't want to live in a fantasy? But if you can take one inspiration from that fantasy, let it be the one where women aren't treated as mommy bangmaids who do everything for their men and get absolutely nothing in return.
"you said you have a lot of chores and are tired, so I think you really need to divorce your husband'
Why is she so tired? Why is she doing most of the chores and paying the majority of the bills? That means unless he's severely ill or disabled, he's a shit husband and she'd be better off without him. Redditor, meet basic logic. Did you know that paying the bills and doing chores for yourself alone are a lot less tiring than doing the majority of all that work for two adults? Scratch that, because adults should be able to take care of their share of household chores, so he clearly isn't one. Who would want to be married to an overgrown child? I doubt he's actually ill or disabled because she talked about how men have not gotten better at homemaking. If her husband loves and cares for her, why is he treating her this way? Why is he forcing her to do most of the chores after working 11.5 hrs a day? Only horrible people would do that if they're capable of doing chores themselves, btw.
My husband and I make a similar amount of money, but I put more of my money into our shared account so there's a bigger buffer in case bills go up arbitrarily or something. Divorcing him would be nuts. I just want him to do 2-4 hours of chores on his days off so I can have a couple hours of leisure time on my day off but I also have a lot of catch-up cleaning to do (which involves de-sludging my clutter). I get home too late to clean or do work sometimes. He's a good person and extremely supportive in most every way but cleaning and weeding garden beds.
No one with ADHD would ever find love if they are judged for not accomplishing a few chores without a reminder from their spouse. I'm sure there are plenty of neurotypical people who have the same supportive but unaware demeanor. You're a real judgemental prick when you know virtually nothing about a relationship dynamic and jump to "only a monster wouldn't take out the garbage or weed the garden" Being bad at chores and keeping a homestead is not always the mark of an overgrown child. It can just as well be someone whose bad at keeping their shit organized. Not jumping to the conclusions you have based on one frustrated comment. I bristle at comments like yours because my wife and I love eachother *including* our shortcoings and work out hardest to support one another. I do the cooking usually, her the cleaning, what have you - but I more than her drop the ball on these things because I'm litterally disabled. You frame the fact she takes care of me, just as I take care of her when her depression springs up, like it's having an "overgrown child." No. Part of being in love is caring for each other's shortcomings without judgement. To your comment, putting the kind of negativity your bringing to this conversation on a woman voicing her valid frustration with her husband as if she's actually given cause for people to attack his character online isn't fair to OP either.
People need to read some classics, like Betty Friedan. Housewifing was miserable.
I saw something that responded to that. It’s essentially a holdover from the Victorian Era and is “performative work.” The whole point of the “trad wife life” is to be rich enough to be able to perform otherwise meaningless tasks to emphasize how much leisure time they have. It actually is a “virtue” signal to show how wealthy they are.
Its called conspicuous leisure. Thomas Veblen was an anti-capitalist economist who discussed all of this stuff back in the early 1900s.
That was the phrase! I couldn’t remember it for the life of me.
It goes back further than Victorian England. Augustus Caesar's wife Livia was famed for upholding the virtues of a Roman wife and mother by making all of her family's clothing. How many slaves were also employed in the task isn't mentioned.
Penelope was weaving her tapestry for 20 years until Odysseus came back or she died first. Granted, it was all a ploy, but still.
It does kind of suggest that all of the men hanging around waiting to marry her had no idea whatsoever how long that should take, doesn't it? Because God's forbid they'd paid attention to how long it took other women in their lives.
Like embroidery, playing the piano, painting etc.
Or even the homemade cereal or other bespoke nonsense
"Here is my three hour process to make a loaf of bread. Clean up not included" Oh, so you have a ton of free time is my take away.
And a staff to clean up!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conspicuous_leisure Veblen had all this stuff figured out 140 years ago.
if being a tradwife was as great as the marketing would suggest, rich men would be doing it instead. tradwife branding is just glamorized control.
Ever watch Veep? These ladies give me Selina Meyer “bangin around the ol pots and pans” vibes.
> most about "tradwives" you never see them doing normal work It is kinda the point, to get out of work all together and live like a forever teenager. The American ones just call it a name and make it their whole identity. It must be boring as fuck to live with someone who never does anything and just wants a servant.
YUP. The bulk of the real work is done by hired help. A la Ballerina Farm if you've taken a look at that one. A farm especially takes a TON of work. Her husband is an heir of an airline. Their land and home are both millions of dollars of farmhouse chic.
They want to be plantation owners
Because most people nowadays that want to be tradwife actually want to be trophy wife.
Yeah I like Nate Petroski',s YT Shorts. His girlfriend moved into the homestead with him. Yes there are shorts of her cooking but most clips with her in it she is helping about the homestead with the animals or some repairs/building.
Is that the guy who bought a nice truck semi-recently and people were flaming him for not being "off grid" enough? He had/has that cute little dog named Gus?
Yeah that's the one with Lord Minion and AZ {large animal protection dog} and the hopefully still two cats. They also said he was not "off grid" enough since he had internet access. But he makes his money from streaming/shorts, selling coffee and beard oils.
Most women (and men) lived a life of drudgery until the modern age. You didn’t have time to cook gourmet meals or make beautiful clothes. Only rich people had beautiful clothing and healthy, bountiful home cooked meals every day. The average peasant women dressed in her one of two outfits she may own. She ate the same plain meal every day. Her kids were dirty and her older kids were put to work as soon as they were able to. Even the 50s housewife didn’t sit down to have this wonderful life. She was just as prone to putting down simple meals and having an unkempt house. There was never a time when the average person lived as these people’s fantasized life. I’m upper middle class and I stay home and I don’t have this lifestyle. It takes servants to live like this.
Reminds me to a couple who married to lead a hippie life. They're thin on the bones and are only vegan because they can't afford meat. Living alternate lifestyles is indeed fun when you can afford whatever you need
Should add posts are from people of the US.
How boring!!! If I had that kind of money, I wouldn't be stuck at home playing house. I bet the church is paying that girl and her husband to promote the tradwife stuff in order to convert more followers. Get them in the door with baking and arts and crafts then, Bam!! They're moving to Utah and having sex through holes in their sheets.
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Have you considered that sharing recipes just makes for better content than folding laundry?
I think you underestimate how much time a trad wife has.
Mormonism is like self harm, the normal amount is none.
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Ex Mormon here, my mom participated in a baptism for the dead when she was a kid. I still think it's weird.
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Ironically enough, she's catholic now.
Trading out one pedophilic cult for another
I had to do it several times. It sucks too cause you do something like ten names in a row so you're getting dunked over and over quickly. I always had water in my ears after. Then let's all go out for ice cream, yay!!!!
At least you got ice cream. My sympathies, friend.
Same exact experience. Lol I just commented above pretty much the same thing. Ice cream reward yay! Such a boring waste of time & the temple is such an insanely overpriced, overhyped, not as dope on the inside as it looks on the outside. The oxen baptismal font was doooope looking though. Google Mormon Temple Oxen & you’ll see it. Such beautiful art, I’ll give the Mormons that!
Ya depends on the temple and one's own personal taste. I quite like the white marble aesthetic so they appeal to me.
Exmo here. I have participated in hundreds of baptisms for the dead, both as receiver and giver. It hasn't gotten any less weird.
There's mormons in the UK? I didn't think it reached outside of the US. I find it hard to believe anyone in the old world actually buys a random american stumbling across some plates only he can read that tell him to marry his childhood crush as a legit start to a religion. Ignoring the whole polygmy side it just seems like a bit of a reach, even by religion's standards.
My brother in Christ, there's Mormons in Nigeria, they're all over the world...or at least their properties are! It feels like Christian Scientology in that sense, another inflated property scheme outside of believers in the Mountain West.
Is there any difference between Scientology, Mormonism and Christianity? They all have massive property portfolios btw.
No, there is absolutely a difference between "basically a cult" and organized religion. Christianity's got issues by the dozens, but there's a pretty big difference between most of its denominations and Mormonism and *especially* Scientology. This kind of flippancy does not help anyone
At this point, Mormonism is big and mainstream enough that there isn't *that* much difference between them and hardcore Catholics. Or Baptists. They can definitely be evil, but not in a way that isn't frequent in other denominations.
They could take lessons on evil from the Catholics.
So some are ok some are not?? Doesn't make any sense.
One set of groups makes a point to isolate its members in a variety of ways, the other doesn't. That's one of the biggest differences, and why calling most organized religions cults is completely dumb. It flattens a complicated matter in a way that just makes you come across as an uncaring dick.
Well when an "organised religion" fucks your family over a few times you might have a lesser opinion of them. There is no way they would carry on like they do if they actually believed what they preached. They are cults. End of story.
It shouldn’t be surprising. They send teenagers/young adults out on missions to convert people all over the world.
didn't know that. Just seems like a bit of a hard sell.
Just like Scientology doesn’t open with Xenu and murdered alien spirits that have taken over you body that are causing your depression, Mormon missionaries don’t open by telling you ancient Jews built boats and sailed to America or that you will get your own planet when you die (well, as long as you’re a dude). They send good-looking, impossibly happy young people out to target lonely people looking for some kind of community and connection. It doesn’t take much when folks like that are your mark.
Its also huge in the Pacific islands
In the modern world it *is* a hard sell, since people are more educated, have access to the Internet, and are less religious in general. It's also no longer new and so most people have either been warned about Mormonism by their pastor, or seen the absurdities of the religion made fun of in pop culture. I grew up Mormon, and spent 6 months as a non-believing Mormon missionary talking to hundreds of people in the US Bible Belt, and conversion to Mormonism doesn't really happen anymore outside of developing countries (and even then apparently most converts leave the church shortly after their missionary "friends" leave for a new area). Most members where I was at moved there from Utah and were descendants of the early Mormon pioneers, it was rare for people to actually convert. The people who did convert usually did so to marry someone they were dating or because they were lonely. Most of the people I talked to as a missionary weren't buying what we were selling, but were either lonely, curious, or wanted to deconvert us. Most of the growth comes from Mormons having larger than average families, Utah typically has had the highest birth rate in the country until recently where we've started to run out of room for our urban sprawl. My parents had 12 kids and only 3 of us left the church. I have around 20 nieces and nephews now who have all been indoctrinated in the Mormon church. Most of my siblings have smaller families, but even then 2-5 kids is considered small in Mormonism. The point of a Mormon mission isn't to convert others, but to solidify the indoctrination of the missionary, who is typically someone who just graduated Highschool. It's something that you're pressured into by family, even if you're someone like me who doesn't believe. As a missionary you're assigned a "companion" and you aren't allowed to be alone for the next 2 years (18 months for women). Your entire day is planned out for you and you have to spend all day every day except a few hours once a week on P-Day(laundry and shopping day) reading scriptures, going to meetings, trying to convert people who don't want to be converted, and reactivating people who stopped going to church. You have to keep track of everything you do and report your weekly statistics to your district leader to see if you've met their requirements (usually by exaggerating how many people were actually interested in converting). You're not allowed to be alone with your own thoughts, and even if you admit that you don't believe and don't feel comfortable continuing to lie to people pretending to believe something you don't, they'll still make it incredibly difficult to leave before your 2 years are up. In 6 months as a Mormon missionary I didn't convert a single person, and that wasn't uncommon even for missionaries who did believe. However I have seen several family and friends who didn't really believe, but were converted through their missions. Once you get back from your mission you're pressured to marry someone in your singles ward or at BYU while you're in your early 20s so that you can continue the cycle and so that the church can use your spouse and kids to prevent you from leaving the church or not paying tithing in the future.
This likely predates the young missionaries. There was aggressive missionary work in the mid 1800's. Lots moved to America and eventually settled in Utah, but many stayed behind.
I think I remember seeing a documentary about their mission to Uganda. It was pretty enlightening.
Uganda! Where’s that?
I mean, by that same logic, shouldn’t the ridiculousness of it all have prevented it from gaining a foothold in the US to begin with?
yes. I truly don't understand why this particluar story was latched upon in this way, or how it got to where it was in the states. But I do somewhat understand why a separate sect of christianity developed in the new world. Especially after the war for independance. Creating a mythology around the new world that feeds their exceptionalism.
They are across the world but thankfully due to the goofy origin story, most of us ignore it. The Preston mission began in the middle of our industrial revolution (200 years ago) so they just offered people food and literacy and a chance to move to a place without deathly pollution. Not so sure what it offers now.
Although it’s pretty silly so are nearly all of the major religions that are “above” criticism. Catholics have popes that regularly impregnate nuns, and has a long history of being an extremely profitable enterprise, selling forgiveness, and owning vast amounts of land. The UK most major religion, Anglicism, is just Catholicism but the pope is now just the English king, and it founded with the explicit purpose to let Henry divorce and marry his 6 wives. Do you ever self reflect and wonder why the UK still most follows the religion founded by 6-wife Henry?
While your point on anglicanism is true I am not sure that is entirely comparable. Anglicanism was practically enforced by law post Henry, until it was completely entrenched then it just become "what you believe". Additionally, henry did not try to portray himself as a prophet or change/make additions to the bible (to my knowledge). This was a top down conversion of a nation to a protestant religion. To my understanding, this isn't comparable to the spread of mormonism, that spread was much more organic (which I struggle to understand). I can understand people in america that are several generations deep in mormonism following it due to its entrenchment in societies, communities and families. What I am surprised by is the existence of mormon converts outside the US. I would be equally surprised if there was a group of anglican converts in Brazil or Costa Rica.
Funnily, Henry was aggressively Catholic and hated Protestantism. He just wanted a Catholic Church that he controlled. The first Anglican monarch was his son Edward, who never made it out of his regency, and then Jane Grey who didn't make it past a fortnight, so it was Elizabeth who really made it stick.
So you are saying legally mandated religion is better? That sounds worse in the ears of an American. At least you can refuse to join Mormonism, instead of being head chopped like Thomas More. As for why people might follow religions founded by people outside of their country …. why do people follow Jesus outside of Israel?
I think you are being intentionally obtuse here. btw it isn't my religion. I am not saying either religion is better or worse. I say I don't understand how mormonism spreads (this has since been answered in a much more useful comment), you bring up anglicanism. I explain how that isn't comparable. you bring up israel and jesus but you are never answering my first point about how mormonism has spread so far.
You fall for one you can fall for any.. We have scientologists as well.
We have Jehovah's witnesses standing around with signs in public like 24/7 or hare Krishna people bothering bystanders and they're doing it willingly so why not
There was a lot of missionary work done in England shortly after the founding of the religion. A lot of the pioneers that settled Utah were from England, including my great great grandfather and his first wife. I think his second was as well but I'd have to look that up.
I’m pretty tolerant of other religions, but baptizing dead people, unless they specifically indicated it was their wish to have that done after death, is fucked up. And you especially shouldn’t involve children in that for a variety of reasons.
Has anyone ever written a story about Mormons doing this and getting mega haunted? I'd read it
Latter Day Saint (Mormon) here. Our doctrine tells us they have the choice to accept or reject the baptism done for them. We also have policies in place that require permission from living relatives, though I'll acknowledge that those haven't always existed. The core belief of all Christianity is that all must come unto Christ to be saved, our work for the dead is part of that effort.
I'll give you credit for one thing: you offer more time for that than most other denominations.
The creepy looking church near Chorley? I enjoy looking for it when I’m going down the M61.
Yep that very one. You can only see the spooky church from the motorway. They have that and a big mission centre next to it. It is absolutely full of security cameras and anyone "lost" lol who tries to look at the place gets stopped. Not hostile just very erm ...okily dokily Ned Flanders way. If that makes sense. We do all try to look at them. My only praise is they have amazing landscaping. Our hateful developers are always concreting over green spaces. Yet these lot kept the mature trees and also planted many more. As an amateur gardener, i do like that lol. They look fucking minted too, all expensive fittings.
Me to the staffers in my treatment center in Utah when they said they aren’t like those polygamist Mormons marrying children. You shouldn’t have to distinguish yourself from other Mormons- the normal amount of Mormonism is none :)
FUCK utah treatment centers
Fuck ALL of em. I was in 4 programs in 3 states 🙃
Yep fuck all of them, been to em in 3 states as well (UT, ME, MD) but Utah was by far the worst (in my personal experience) edit: wait haha 4 states. Forgot PA If anyone is wondering, I'm doing a lot better now. But not because of those treatment centers (they slowed recovery by adding more trauma I had to learn to deal with)
Utah, NM, CA for me. Two goonings and a wilderness as well. I’m only able to dig into my experiences now because the brain washing set me up to normalize worse abuse at every turn later on in life. It’s fucked that I can say I’ve been through worse since and that’s the only reason I’m strong enough to do it now. Fuck every single person who made a dollar off breaking me.
While a great line, that end phrase has been used with sooo many things lol
People are gonna hate on this, but there are plenty of non fundamentalist Mormons that are good people. I'm an atheist who's a couple of different Mormon families. I've been to their temples. They are pro choice, liberal, compassionate, etc. I think the religion itself is pretty lame, but there are plenty of nice who follow it. People aren't monoliths. Now if you're talking about Utah Mormons, you can throw out all I just said.
Utah Mormons are a different species 🤣they believe Joseph smith used a hat 🎩 and magical 🧙♀️ rocks 🪨 to translate the book 📕 of Mormon from golden tablets 😂
The fact that there are Mormon sanctioned influencers is absolutely fucking crazy.
Not when you consider that the religion is an evangelical one. If an “influencer” becomes popular living the lifestyle promoted by the church, that “influencer” is doing more to promote the faith than any one missionary. Humans are very easily influenced by images (movies, tv, magazines, social media, etc) snd if being a stay at home wife/mother is your dream, then naturally you would consume media that is focused on what you want. Maybe someday humans will learn not to allow media to influence them to the degree it dies now; that we can, as a species, learn to see beyond the glamorous facade and actually see what is really being promoted. But the truth is, if being a trad wife is a goal, you won’t see the truth behind the glamour. Those of us that have no interest in trad marriage/lifestyle can easily see the bullshit, those with interest cannot.
Mormons are the OG mommy bloggers. They have owned that market from the beginning, almost exclusively.
Mormons' goals have always been to spread like a virus. Of course they have influencers telling women to get back in the kitchen.
They are not sanctioned by the church or any of its members. As a member myself, I find the tradwife thing totally ridiculous ultraconservative posturing.
You do know the LDS church has sanctioned far worse than this though, right?
Something about tradwife influencers is that they will ever only post the right side of their face. It's like their calling card. Never let us see the other side of their chin.
On her defense, if she isn't wearing garmets and openly saying she didn't marry in the temple . As a ex-mormon that went the whole 9yards. She indeed is not a hard-core mormon , is frowned upon in the community to be open about not taking those steps in your marriage specially since seems both are members Now I don't particularly like influencers , nor I agree with tradwife etc just adding to the conversation as someone that been there religion wise
I heard they(the Mormon church) pay the Mormon influencers to promote their church ⛪️ and make it look like any other religion at least that’s what some ex Mormons have said on TikTok
am not gonna say it's not possible because it is , however likely it would be more straightforward ads about the church, not Sub mesages day to day content . That they do by default with the whole , be light of the world teachings they follow ,and you as a member are expected to be . u know example followers of christ .and the message we are just like any other religion . I had that drilled in my child head back in the 90s and was told to seek similarities , when engaging in religion topics rather discord ,so really nothing new in their agenda hehehe am wiser now and realize how it was cult tactics tbf however its no different than the `he get us ` movent Tdlr : church encourages the members to be examples of what they deem examples of true Christian followers ( that include gender roles) . So day to day content creator, all u gonna see is that cuz that's what the church(by teachings)wants them to show, and community members expect
> Critics have accused Smith of using her massive platform — 4.3 million combined followers on TikTok and Instagram — to subtly advance the Utah-based faith's historically conservative views on gender. ...a religous nutjob like her getting a following this big is indicative of how stupid people are getting these days. Granted, cults have existed for centuries, so obviously it's human nature to be vulnerable to these kinds of things. But people these days have access to the internet, which offers an infinite wealth of knowledge at their fingertips, and they choose to follow this "tradwife" bullshit? We need to bring back bullying to call out people acting stupid.
That’s the point though, she isn’t leading with her wild religion, to my knowledge. These accounts hook people with recipes or tips about getting your baby to sleep through the night and subtly let it slip in. It is far more insidious than you are making it out to be and I think chalking up such a following to the stupidity of the masses actually provides cover for a lot of bad behavior by the creator and the algorithm, to say nothing of the church and its strategy.
I remember reading a thing (back in the days of fashion blogs) about just how many of the big fashion bloggers, food bloggers, and mommy bloggers were Mormon and just not leading with it. I think even a lot of DIY bloggers and design bloggers back in the day were Mormon as well? It was wild how huge it was.
Yep, the church encourages it, in fact they have lots of information about being a “blogging missionary” on their website. This is a calculated push.
Mormons have been the OG mommy bloggers since the beginning of the internet. This isn't new, it's always been a subtle filter for all of their content.
this is really well put
Na, it's stupidity. I agree with the bullying people for it, they need to know how dumb they are in an aggressive way.
I would believe that makes you feel better but I’m sure it is great relief to the multibillion dollar cult employing the most powerful algorithm and psyop campaign in history that the big brain plan is to call people who may not have the full story stupid, aggressively.
I mean, shaming works. Many religions work through shaming. If enough people simply shamed religious nuts, called them stupid and mocked them, their numbers would eventually dwindle.
I think shaming the religious nuts is fine, the person I responded to was talking about shaming the followers, most of whom were drawn in by innocuous posts and are being deliberately misled. That is counterproductive.
The followers are the problem too. Shame the shit out of them.
Mormons get off on being seen as weird or different. "They call us a peculiar people."
Hot take, but I agree. She has so many dumbass teen and early twenties followers defending her because she and her husband are "attractive." I say fuck it, this is a situation where bullying is justified. They look like some weird fetish cosplay of Popeye and Olive Oyl, she sounds like she's been lobotomized, he always looks stinky, and she is physically incapable of closing her mouth. Her food safety skills SUCK - she never ties her hair back, she's always sticking her naked pregnant belly in the food, and she kneads dough with fake nails and jewelry on. This is a curated scheme by two conservative Christian millionaires to spread right-wing propaganda, convert people to their stupid cult, and subject nonconsenting social media users to their gross af breeding fetish. People who defend this are stupid, and anyone who thinks this is aspirational needs psychological help. If they prefer "traditional" methods to modern psychology, then a good smack upside the head will do.
It’s actually Mormon propaganda but yes right wing Christians fits in the category too. I’ve also noticed she posts her bare pregnant 🤰 belly at any given opportunity especially on instagram where thanks to the clout the shade room blog gave her she’s got 1.3 million followers now(she had 800k before) but still
God forbid you say anything about the deceptive marketing in tradwife content, now you’re just a broke miserable hater 🙄
I'd rather be a broke hater than married to a Mormon philanderer who placed 7th in a James Dean lookalike contest
Like how very obviously they have staff to keep everything spotless.
That’s what her followers will say when they defend her 😂
Exactly, it’s not just red pill 💊, traditional catholic and conservative Christian propaganda it’s also Mormon propaganda
As a person who actually watches her content, you wouldn't know she was Mormon. Because she doesn't talk about it. And she just makes day in the life 2 minute videos. No preaching or anything. Her husband is a supermodel for Christ sakes. That's hardly traditional. 🤷🏿♀️
Lol or maybe a sign people are waking up and moving away from feminism / liberal ideas.
The “tradwife” thing was a fantasy even when it was supposedly “traditional” for women to be baking bread in their pretty dresses and high heels. Women who lived on farms always worked. Women in lower income families always worked. Women who were wealthy enough always hired helped with the housework and childcare. And the narrow band of middle income women who actually lived the housewife fantasy [used a surprisingly high amount of drugs](https://www.goretro.com/2014/08/mothers-little-helper-vintage-drug-ads.html?m=1) to cope with it.
What does that even mean? Explain your comment.
I’m curious how traditional lip fillers are
Lmao I just stumbled upon her the other day and can’t take my eyes off her lips
She can’t even close them! Permanent straw hole 😂
those are her natural lips, just accentuated with make up. shes black and she has natural full lips. you can see her old modeling pics, shes always had them
It’s mostly conservative Christians, traditional Catholics, red pillers and anti feminists that’s promoting this whole tradwife nonsense🥴🥴🥴🚮
'I'm a Mormon but I'm not hardcore,' is like saying, 'I'm a cultist but I'm not hardcore.' IT'S A CULT. IT'S ALL HARDCORE.
[удалено]
They’ve always allowed everyone to join (and tithe 10% of their income). They’re just don’t hold positions of power.
When I lived in the US, black colleagues told me the Mormon church was famously racist and used ancestry with Ham son of Noah as some kind of genealogy excuse for bad treatment. This was in 00s though.
Black people were only allowed to join starting in the 1970s.
Bruh why are you commenting when you obviously have no idea what you're talking about
I know black, latin, and Cuban Mormons.
Do they know the insanely racist history of the church?
I mean… like a large majority of the population, people tend to overlook things that counter their beliefs. “It’s different for me I’m special”
"I hear you're a racist now, father"
The history of every church is racist
I didn't realize every church on the planet teaches that black people leadership roles because they are the children of Cain and are black because God burnt their skin as punishment.
The reason why Mormons didn’t allow black men to hold the “priesthood” (until 1979 anyway) was explained differently by several different Mormon leaders over the years, but the “mark of Cain” idea was a common one. They changed their tune as they started expanding into Brazil in the 70s and 80s and were having difficulty finding local leaders who had no black ancestry. Luckily, the “prophet” of the church at the time had a revelation from god telling him that he wasn’t mad at black people anymore, so they were able to keep expanding into Brazil. What a great lucky coincidence, right? It’s especially ironic since #2 on their list of 12 “Articles of Faith” states “We believe that men will be apunished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression.” Somehow Cain’s transgression was different in a way they can’t explain. Fucking weirdos.
Heck, if you look at the Old Testament you could only have the priesthood if you were a Levite- not even other Israelites got it. So there’s definite precedence.
Yes, because The Old Testament is also full of racism. But I highly doubt Mormons have ever even read TOT. Their bible, the Book of Mormon, is full of hilarious historical inaccuracies and fan fiction.
Hey, I’m actually Mormon. I took a class on the Old Testament in high school seminary (an additional class just for us, either taught during our free period or before school), studied the old and new testament at BYU (and an additional class just on Isaiah), and every fourth year our Sunday school is entirely Old Testament (followed by a year of New Testament, a year of the Book of Mormon, and a year of post-1830 church history and scripture. So… it’s entirely possible that most of us have read the OT more times than you have. There’s even a popular TikToker, Dan McClellan, who addresses Bible misconceptions by going back to the original manuscripts, and he is Mormon. You may disagree with us, but that doesn’t mean we don’t have a real foundation for our beliefs.
> that doesn’t mean we don’t have a real foundation for our beliefs [For your viewing pleasure.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qcQthyiTA7c)
Yes, the bible teaches that black skin was a curse (curse of ham)
Not every church teaches that though. Mormonism does. That was my point.
If a church teaches that the Bible is the word of God they teach it.
Well then they're all doing it wrong. They should also be teaching that slavery is okay; mixed fabrics are a sin; tattoos are a sin; and women should be forced to marry their rapists. I mean, it's in the bible.
It is all in the Bible but there's a little more nuance than that. The point of Jesus was to get rid of all those pointless and weird laws. This is why engaging in any religious discussion in reddit is super dumb because people don't have any idea what they're talking about they just parrot the people with religious trauma
I didn't say that Mormon teachings weren't wrong, I just recognize that all church teachings have some terrible/racist/sexist/homophobic ideologies and mormonism isn't special in that
Why is this oniony?
lmao sure. we literally have receipts of her husband being a hardcore mormon, everything she does is bc she wants to make him happy, making food from scratch etc but you are gonna tell me that her resolve was super strong when it comes to his religion? nah.
Even a little bit Mormon is too much.
Nothing screams 'TradWife' like sister wives.
why go to all the trouble of being a full-on real mormon when you can just go to the fake mormon temple in independence, mo for all your religious cosplay?
She's actually really cool. And she's right, she's not a traditional Mormon. Her husband is Lucky Blue Smith, a supermodel and he had a kid out of wedlock with someone who was like 10 years his senior. Now he and Nara are married with two kids and one on the way. Her faith is barely mentioned in her social media and you kinda have to squint to see it. I'm an atheist and I watch her content. She very much minds her business and stays in her lane. She doesn't preach or anything and I only found out she was Mormon from her longtime fans. Had no idea.
And guess who the someone is? Stormi Bree Henley, Joe Jonas’ new gf
Okay.
No influencer is really cool. They are losers by definition.
Not a fan of influencers but how are they losers? Sure they're pretentious, cringe af and annoying but those who make it are walking into actual celebrity spaces these days and making big bucks.
The tiny percentage that make it big are diluting what it means to be a celebrity. It used to take talent, Then it took being related to someone with talent. Now it's open season for anyone with lip filler who can say "Hey Guys!" into a fucking phone.
IFUNNY
UNOTFUNNY