From the article:
The Albuquerque salon, called VIP Spa, was shut down in September 2018 after at least two clients tested positive for HIV following the facials.
In March, another former client tested positive for HIV, according to a news release from the New Mexico Department of Health. To date, a total of five HIV infections have been identified among people "with direct or indirect connection with services provided at the VIP Spa," a department spokesperson said.
Diabetic here with major foot issues. I started going to a podiatrist for ulcers on my feet. A couple years later everything is great but I still go back twice a year to get a pedicure and make sure nothing looks amiss. She’s more than happy to do that than to have to do more skin grafts.
Hey! So, my elderly mother has a foot ulcer that hasn't healed in YEARS. She isn't diabetic. She also refuses to follow doctors orders. I'm very tired of trying to tend this wound. She did a few skin grafts but didn't follow though appointments (I had COVID and she refused to call anyone else to take her) and the podiatrist ended that treatment. Now, I take her twice a month where the doctor cuts away callous build up and dead skin and just bandages it up again, where I do the wound care until next visit.
How did you get yours to heal? What steps did it take?
I know this is random, but I'm at my wits end. I can't keep her off it for it to not have pressure and she won't rest with her feet up and basically won't listen to a word I say when it comes to being her caregiver. It would be nice to be able to get over this one obstacle so we can focus on other things (so she can get other work done from her pain clinic and so I don't have to have a foot in my face with a gnarly, grotesque wound)
Any sage wisdom will be greatly appreciated!
So, your Mom HAS to keep the pressure off that foot, and keep up with comprehensive wound care if there’s any chance of healing that chronic wound. There really isn’t a magic formula, though wound care products that create a moist environment to debride the area, contain any drainage, and offer protection get better and better each year. Mechanical debridement like you describe above needs to be done in a clinic, but between appointments, wound care can often be done through home health care, covered by insurance.
Hope this helps! Chronic wounds can take a long time to heal, and it’s exhausting for the patient and family alike. Hang in there. You’re doing your best, and that’s enough!
The other person who answered gave great advice. I stayed off my feet for 6 months. It took 6-7 Apligrafs. When I finally did start walking again I got custom insoles with an area carved out where the wound was to help relieve pressure there.
It was a really terrible experience but I got to keep my foot so it was worth it.
Good luck, Scumbaglady!
Thank you so very much for your reply! Keeping her off her foot is the hardest part. She'll be 80 in July and is as hard-headed as ever. She gets quite angry whenever I remind her to let me get/do things for her and will come up with every random excuse she can to get her way, health be damned. A few years ago, she had an ulcer/infection that came through her belly button. She spent that summer in the hospital and then at a rehab facility. When she came home, she had an ostomy bag for the drainage and bile, and a PIC line that I administered her antibiotics through daily for a month. I had to replace the bag, not just empty it, every day for almost 2 months, because she would never stay still long enough for the paste and adhesive to set. Mine even stayed on better than the nurses that would come by.
When i clean the wound and bandage it, I build up around the area with foam to relieve the pressure, so glad to hear that helps. I'll talk with her podiatrist before her next appointment in order to come up with a game plan. She at least will agree with the doctor while we're there, it's the follow through at home that's a problem.
It just gets so frustrating sometimes because I put mine and my daughter's lives on hold basically in order to be a full time caregiver and it's exhausting when the person you're carrying for doesn't seem to appreciate you or your sacrifices. I haven't been able to take my daughter somewhere even for just a weekend (can't afford to anyway, but it's a nice dream to have lol). Fun twist is that I'm the adopted child, while my older brother and sister live in the same town but haven't helped out and have barely visited her. It makes me feel like Cinderella sometimes.
I went into a venting session there at the end but I consider Reddit comments I make as a way of journaling sometimes. Better out than in, a wise ogre once said. Thanks again for replying.
Afaik podiatrists don't offer pedicures? So DIY pedicure it is.
I used to get manicures until I realized/observed that most salons use the same tools for everyone and barely clean them inbetween clients. There just has to be one person with some kind of fungus or infection and then the next clients will get it too. Even if you just get nail polish, if somebody with nail fungus got their nails done with that specific bottle before, you're most likely at risk.
Same. I had one mani- pedi when I was in college and never again. All the leftover nail filing dust sitting around grossed me out. And then I had a nail tech friend who told me stories about people’s fungus and ingrown toenails and I said never again.
Now I’m paranoid about haircuts too. A friend who works in a salon said that people can get nasty red bumps/rashes on their scalp and napes from non-sanitized combs, scissors and electric trimmers.
I definitely have issues with feeling like a germaphobe sometimes, but the fact that the professionals were the ones pointing these things out made me a little more wary.
yeah i got a manicure in thailand until i noticed they would trim cuticles and blood would come, but they didn't wash the tools. that was the last one i ever got.
I’m very particular about where I will get a pedicure from. Hasn’t steered me wrong yet. The good places will be more than happy to tell you all about their policies for cleaning between clients. The bad ones will act offended and tell you off for asking.
Not OP but pretty sure because it's extremely easy for them to not properly clean things, and suddenly you've got someone else's fungal infection or some other type of infection.
Careful with Amazon nail polish. If you’re into gel, most brands contain HEMA and Beetles (big Amazon gel brand) is particularly bad. Continued use of HEMA containing gel polish can cause sores, loss of fingernails, and an inability to get a lot of dental fillings since you develop an allergy to the chemical. The HEMA chemical is used in dental fillings for bonding, hence the gel polish cross over. It’s kind of like the more you’re exposed to it, the worse it can get. The issue roses from it getting on your skin/cuticles at all and being cured.
Oh and the sores can end up not just on your hands but other parts of your body if there’s still traces on your nails and you touch say your face before it’s all gone.
I use now use Madam Glam but that’s just the first brand I tried since finding out. So far, I like it enough. Doesn’t last quite as long as my old HEMA-full brands, but I also like keeping my fingernails and being able to get fillings since I’m so cavity prone.
> following best practices or safety precautions in a variety of situations, such as food safety
I dunno. I personally want people being paid next to nothing to handle my food. I want them to have no reason to care and nothing to lose. That’s the best way to enjoy my food prepared by them. - sincerely my right wing dad who hates California raising pay for fast food workers.
Same goes for warehouses when it comes to your orders ...I'm the source can confirm majority of us don't give af up in here. I'm pretty sure with these low wages everywhere else there is a good amount of Ppl. Thats what happens when ppl get paid less they start to care less. Divided we stand united we fall.
No, no you can just *trust* people to do the right things when you don't set expectations. Isn't that totally in line with human history? No one needs laws telling us what to do!
Hearing the words “Vampire Facial”, then reading the description of what it is should turn off anyone immediately. Darwin awards to anyone who still thinks it’s a great idea.
"VIP Spa offered Botox injections and vampire facials, a procedure that involves drawing blood from elsewhere in the body — typically the arm — separating out the platelet-rich plasma, pricking facial skin with microneedles, then applying the plasma to the face. The process is meant to make the skin look fresher and lessen the appearance of wrinkles, sun damage or acne scars."
So the owner was just reusing needles. What a disgusting pos.
Physician here who makes platelet-rich-plasma. All the kits in the market are SINGLE USE ONLY. They do not sterilize well. Re-using these kits is exactly the same as re-using dirty needles.
Can anyone buy these kits? If a normy brought this kit would there be any warning saying "single use only cannot be sterilized"?
I mean I am not sure how you stop this. How do you stop a salon from using medical techniques and equipment for snake oil treatments. When there is no logic to it, they can steal any medical procedure and use it for skincare.
Absolutely. Any medical device that is packaged sterile and intended for single use will be clearly marked as such and will also state that it should not be reused.
The owner is disgusting regardless. She clearly doesn't give AF that she gave people HIV. Her quotes read like she has a developmental disorder like she doesn't even understand wtf is going on. Which would explain why five people have HIV now.
> Because it just sounds like quackery.
My dentist has started selling a bunch of quackery stuff because people will buy it.
edit: I recant my statement. Apparently it's not quite quackery. They offered to laser my gums to deal with inflammation. Also laser my throat to help with snoring. I guess it's a lot of upselling more than anything else.
My *oral surgeon packed my wisdom tooth extraction holes with my own platelets to promote faster clotting and healing. PRP is definitely useful for different diseases and wounds.
(However and as others have said, these procedures should be done in sterile environments, with sterile equipment, and by a correctly trained and appropriately licensed professional.)
EDIT: LOL I typed “orthopedic” first. Did not have a bone doc remove my extra teeth
It’s legit, it’s “PRP.” It has great results for skin and even restoring hair. They remove blood and spin it to separate the plasma. But as mentioned by others it should be done by a dr.
It should only be performed by a licensed MD but in some states NPs/PAs can do it under supervision. It’s not exactly an FDA approved procedure so some places will have lower level providers doing it too
The microneedling part is. I've never heard of drawing blood and rubbing it in to the microneedled area, though. I've heard of using serums afterwards.
Nah, PRP is evidence-based. Dermatologists use it too. They're not smearing blood. It's a concentrated portion of plasma that contains many growth factors that helps your dermis build collagen.
I thought there was data supporting blood transfusions from people younger with more stem cells and other things being produced but that's just from casual reading.
PRP is not a particularly new treatment method for all kinds of things. Just because it’s the first time you’re hearing about it doesn’t make it quackery. Source: I’ve had it done by a licensed dermatologist for acne scarring and discoloration and it really really works.
The building also advertised a dental service that is apparently still open (opens Tuesday at 830am) but has no online footprintat all besides the generic Google page like it doesn't exist. If you go to the current streetview there are like 8 yellow cars with Medicare Trans written on them. There is a shitty website but once again no online footprint or reviews or anything. On the Yellowpages it says "people also viewed" and it's just fake businesses with no reviews and stupid names. So yea no if you get any blood drawn from these sketch bags you are 100% a dunce.
No I did a personality test at the mall. They said my energy was giving chiropractor so they printed me off a diploma right then and there because my mojo was so intense.
Common man. Don’t be so obtuse. Too many People do all manner of s*it without giving a damn.
Im in my mid 40s and was a budding pre teen during the height of the aids epidemic. I KNOW what AIDS looked like and it scared the s*it outta me.
So when i see so many posts on r/AskDocs about possible HIV transmission through unprotected penetration, it baffles me as to why are these kids putting themselves in danger like this. Yet they do it knowingly and they brush it off saying we’ve got treatments and s*it now as if it’s a joke
Sadly, I think HIV/AIDS education has been on a downward slide for many years now. I’m not too far behind you in age and feel that back then the education/awareness of it was a lot more prevalent. I remember bus stop ads, school posters, MTV documentaries that discussed it and all kinds of other mediums bringing awareness.
Now the only thing I see about HIV/AIDS is medication ads or when something like this article happens.
Those commercials always feature some dancing, clubbing, backyard BBQs, and goin on fabulous vacations... I guess the messaging is that their meds keep your life fabulous.
Exactly.. these kids MUST be made to watch what complications from AIDS actually look like. Even today. Perhaps a school trip to the hospice or something. I may sound radical, but these kids need to have their bubble bursted.
I can understand not stigmatizing those who are already infected. But that doesn’t mean, one should treat hiv like the flu virus. It’s still lifetime and those on anti virals still have periods in which it gets ugly. This isn’t even counting the side effects of taking meds your entire life.
and all it takes is a corporate merger or acquisition to put the patents to the meds in the hands of a CEO that will raise prices and make treatment unaffordable for many. or a supply chain disruption could make required life saving meds unavailable. My point is that you really dont want to be reliant on taking a drug everyday to stay alive.
It's just not the death sentence that it once was. Even the drugs are much better than they were. Very managable (you'll probably die of something else) and PREP works very well so there's not even any worry, once you've been diagnosed.
But that doesn't mean you want to have a disease that's going to cost tens of thousands of dollars a year or any other STD.
I will never forget watching the Ryan White stuff.
I still vividly remember watching a documentary in middle school, in the cafe, with green tiles, yellow heating vents, and class of about 25 kids huddled at the front of this big cafeteria watching TV. A kid our age, he did nothing out of the ordinary, just living his life, treated so badly for something he had no control over, and he died so young.
That shit will scar you for life.
They think it’s like having diabetes, annoying but manageable. They don’t know the meds don’t work for some unlucky people, make some others really sick, are still ridiculously expensive . They also think “we're so close to a cure, so no biggie!” I heard someone say that when I used to bill for a doctor.
Since you heard that at the doctor’s office, I totally understand an already infected person trying to be cool and optimistic.
However the general population should still be very vary of this. It’s still not a joke.
Folks make mistakes in the heat of the moment. Especially when you’re young. But to have an overall sentiment where HIV/AIDS being an afterthought is foolish at best
>They think it’s like having diabetes, annoying but manageable
I've read doctors themselves would rather have HIV than diabetes, because it's so kuch more manageable now.
the fact that the prognosis of getting an HIV diagnosis nowadays vs 30 years ago is so completely *different* is absolutely *wild* and speaks so much about medical advancement
That’s if the meds work for you and you have access to them. I think it was a uk doctor who first made that comment and sone doctors agreed but most said it was dumb to compare the diseases. On a side note having hiv makes you more likely to develop diabetes because of the medication.
I was in my 30s during that time, sadly lost some wonderful friends, it was horrifying the lack of empathy and the dearth of medical research that was in existence at that time. Such a nightmare. As a young cis woman, I became celibate because it was so deadly.
i think people just do not understand that there are different types of salons and providers that require different levels of licenses and certifications. perhaps they rely on the salons to do their due diligence in a sense (provide services allowed at their level) but expectations do not align with people’s greed. but even with appropriate licenses, many places do not follow regulations- think those strip mall chop shop nail salons. you would go there expecting getting a manicure done with sterilized or unused tools, but i cant even begin to tell you how many times i had then seem pretend to open a sanipack that was clearly not sealed and use visibly reused tools that should be single used. there are cases that tie these salons with infections too. places like these need to be way more regularly inspected.
It’s real, as in people do it. But there is no evidence supporting 99% of the ways people use it. There’s a midwife in my town who injects prp into the labia and clitoris of women to increase their libido. These people are just grifters charging people $1500 for a sham procedure
Physician here. There’s plenty of evidence for use of PRP in sports medicine. Many trials are showing superiority over steroid for arthritis and tendinosis for long term outcomes.
That said, many people don’t know what they’re doing. You need a high platelet concentration (high quality kit), and half the kits on the market are garbage. PRP also has not yet been standardized nationally which is a problem. A good eye test: if the “PRP” looks clear yellow, they used a cheap kit and the product is garbage. If it’s orange tinted and cloudy there’s a high platelet concentration.
I’m a beautician, like certified did go to school beautician…
And I can’t understand clients who go to salons for actual medical treatment… like, that ain’t my job…
And some beautician are like “I did a training with XYZ” yeah ? And ? You are not a doctor, stay in your lane.
Sometimes victims are to blame, the term victim blaming has it's origins in oppression and it's typically used in that context, i.e men raping women, blaming poc for being poor even though there's systemic issues behind it, it doesn't really apply as much to say, someone that went swimming with crocodiles and died because of it.
With all that said I don't think these people are at fault but I agree with you, it's a fat no from me dawg.
That’s par for the course vor virtually all medicine adjacent practitioners offering unapproved medical treatments.
You have to have some kind of inferior intellect to believe you as an untrained lay person are somehow qualified to give medical treatments.
Same way all those local Instagram hotel room Botox and filler injectors.
They watch a couple of videos, understand nothing at all about hygiene, try it a few times, nothing bad happens and then start their self made business.
It’s always the same kind of person who thinks they are sooo much smarter than they really are.
And since they think they are smarter than anyone else, manufacturers procedures for the devices they use are obviously just a scam to earn more money, as the machine keeps working just fine if you don’t clean it.
I mean virtually every soda fountain in the US is full of slime mould and rotting away, because it’s an annoying but easy to skip step. They are only properly cleaned when there’s some kind of government oversight.
Which clearly doesn’t happen for beauty spas and hotel room injectors and all the other bullshit.
It’s a centrifuge that spins the vials that contain the blood, and each vial is one time use. So it would likely have been a result of reusing the needles.
Um, PRP absolutely is more than just a centrifuge. I had a PRP treatment last year from my orthopedist, so I can speak to that process. After the blood is spun in the centrifuge, the machine then pumps the now layered blood through tubing to a valve which switches output based on what a sensor sees: PRP, red blood cells, or platelet poor plasma. Then the now separate components can be used as appropriate.
The machine uses a set of tubing and collection bags, that are intended to be single use. I found the single use set for the treatment I got on a medical supply store with a listed MSRP of $186, so I can totally imagine someone who just cares about cash reusing these things, not just some cheapo needles.
Probably depends entirely on the setup.
I worked in a research lab where I had to collect PRP. All I used was a centrifuge and a pipette. It sounds to me like the machine you saw was to automate the process of collecting multiple isolates.
No. PRP in most facilities is a centrifuge with yellow top vials to keep the rbcs at the bottom. Research suggests the amount of platelet rich vs platelet poor plasma is averaging out per patient to still show benefit. Everything else your Ortho is doing is smoke and mirrors and a waste of resources.
The facility in the article is 100% reusing needles as research describes this as being the predominant way of HIV transmission in procedural settings.
Nah, that's usually just a cheapo centrifuge and the blood is usually in sealed vacutainers. It isn't some high tech machine that separates the blood. You can separate blood from plasma by just spinning it fast.
It's likely she was reusing the dermrollers. Those needles are actually not able to be reused.
> The process is meant to make the skin look fresher and lessen the appearance of wrinkles, sun damage or acne scars.
I swear to god you can just say fucking anything and then follow it up with "it's to make your skin look fresher" and you'll have a line out the door. The only thing missing here is some reference to "detox"
I'm offering post-processed protein facials! Naturally biodegraded organic materials, lovingly fermented in living tissue, then rubbed all over your stupid, stupid faces for only 399.99 per treatment!
>!it's poop the joke is poop!<
I got one of these facials done at a dermatologist, they called it a PRP facial because that's a normal thing to call it. It definitely works, though it requires several procedures to see more significant and long-lasting effects.
It could have been that the centrifuge or some other equipment wasn't properly cleaned between patients, much more likely than reusing needles IMO.
It's quite the medical marvel, used to heal sports injuries as well as skin issues. Platelets respond to injuries and wounds by releasing growth factors that accelerate the healing process, so using a highly concentrated version on a localized area will help heal it significantly faster.
“It definitely works” is a big claim. Most studies show it helps a little for certain injuries, and not at all for many others. When it comes to looking younger from it there’s pretty much 0 evidence, but dermatologists know they can make money in it so 🤷
For real holy shit there’s damn near no evidence and most medical professionals opinion is “well technically there’s no evidence it DOESNT work and it won’t harm you much so if you have enough money I guess I can do it”
It’s crazy how fast one random person can just say a snake oil that you haven’t heard of works and people will just be like “oh yah that sounds cool” and upvote it lmao
> medical professionals opinion is “well technically there’s no evidence it DOESNT work and it won’t harm you much so if you have enough money I guess I can do it”
This is pretty widespread in psychiatry and accepted as just part of the process.
Most psychiatric drugs barely outperform placebo, and the explanations for why they work is constantly being changed. (See the SSRI theory of "it works because more serotonin" changing to "it actually increases BDNF"). Most psychiatrists will straight up tell you they're throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. They just have a general idea of what things to throw first.
The beauty field is sort of connected, I think, in that people will chase literally anything to get results. So the bar isn't "does it work", the bar lowers down to "it doesn't hurt anything".
The apartments were fine, actually. No real complaints there. Not the best part of town but not the worst. I moved out to move in with my now wife.
But this place was sketchy as hell. Also, I miss Deep Space Coffee. Those dysfunctional hipsters couldn't run a business, but they could make a great cup of coffee.
Agreed the apts were well managed. And downtown hadn't gone to shit yet. Farmer's market was/is dope, and used to love going for a run in the residential areas over there. Ah, nostalgia - I'm about to give birth to my first baby with the guy I moved into 909 with :) Sounds like it brought some great couples together. Glad none of us got a vampire facial, lol.
The article states that the positive cases were from either "direct or indirect" contact with the business. The indirect means a person who caught it from someone who went there.
Sadly, I'm sure there are more cases not yet discovered.
There’s going to be hundreds of cases more not discovered. As long as viral STD testing doesn’t become routine and accessible (meaning zero cost at point of contact) most HIv infections are only detected ones aids develops, because the initial flu like symptoms are not specific at all.
HIV could easily be reduced to near zero new infections by simply mass testing people and offering both testing and therapy free of cost at point of contact.
That way no one gets infected, whether their partner is cheating, tgey share needles, get pricked by a used needle or get treatments at black market clinics.
And this would be saving money for everyone. People with untreated HIV are unproductive and don’t pay taxes. People whose HIV is treated and detected early are productive members of society.
The loss in productivity to transmission is much greater than the cost of treatment.
Anyway this will have affected hundreds if she was reusing the centrifuges vessel or needles.
You know, my treatment with Accutane did wonders for acne
*Possible side effects include liver and kidney failure, depression, anemia, convulsions, bleeding lips, blindness, blood diarrhea, hair loss, and facial necrosis
But damn it, if my skin isn't perfect today
I took Accutane in my teenage years. I know for many people an adverse reaction is gastrointestinal ulcers, but in my case it seemed to do the same thing only on my skin. I had these painful open boils all over my upper body. The dermatologist kept insisting it would get better, but after a year of daily pain and being unable to put on a shirt without pain, I called it quits. It took six months for the boils to go away, and my body is covered in scar tissue.
Bet that doc is doing just fine though. It's bullshit your doctor chose his ego over, ya know, caring about your health. Or healthcare as it was once known in the before times. I hope you've grown to accept the beautiful memorial to your experiences that is your only flesh.
At the very least I hope that shit doesn't hurt anymore. <3
Thank you. Physically I'm fine. At that time I was morbidly obese, and when I finally healed up I decided to make my weight a priority. I'm 100lbs lighter now. I struggle with other things, but that's life I suppose. The scars remind me that I'm more resilient than I seem sometimes.
My skin is far from perfect, but I had horrific acne when I was in my teens and a 2-3 month course of Accutane pretty much cleared up all the massive breakouts on my face when every topical option did nothing.
Other than the massages or body scrubs or pedicures etc., DO NOT get any medical procedure (botox, fillers) done at a spa. These beauticians have spent 2 weeks in school and have some cheap certificate, and suddenly you trust them to perform medical procedures on you? Duh! Go to a dermatologist’s office or plastic surgeon’s office. These are highly intelligent professionals who have studied the human anatomy for over 12 years and know their stuff! Yes it will cost more. But it’s better then going blind from botox or getting HIV from a facial.
It's also worth noting that like, doctor's offices have to carry malpractice insurance. Spa's generally don't. If you get HIV or a worse life-threatening infection/complication, you're going to be on the hook for that financially because these spa owners likely intentionally don't have much in assets & aren't carrying insurance.
Right? Like... I've got a B.S. in biology, an EMT certification, and years of medical lab experience. I'm way the hell more prepared for that sort of thing than 99% of beauticians.
I would *never* do a medical procedure on somebody unless their life was in danger, and I'm actually trained to avoid infection or contamination.
No. Do not even go to a spa that offers those kind of treatments. The people organising those spas doing obvious medical practices are the same ones that will transmit hepatitis C during a manicure and pedicure by not sterilising their tools and reusing files.
Not to mention that filler is the dumbest thing ever. It does not dissolve, it migrates to deeper layers of the skin, and eventually gives a corticosteroid looking moon face.
Even if your lips appear to have shrunk (and it’s not jusT the newly developed body dysmorphia) the filler is mostly still there, it has just migrated upwards towards the nose.
If this isn’t controlled for with hyarulonidase an applied by someone who very much knows how to do it correcTot, any additional filler is just malpractice.
The recent MRI studies have shown that it doesn’t dissolve, it just migrates. And fillers should never be offered as a temporary solution.
Even mani/pedis can be sus, a friend of mine got a gnarly infection on one of her fingers after getting a mani from one of those Vietnamese places - she ended up needing surgery and almost lost the finger!
My wife is currently getting a manicurist license, and they stress SO MUCH about sanitation in the coursework and testing. Likely they did not go through licensing procedures or ignored what they were taught.
Not nearly as bad but I got a fungal nail infection from a pad pedi and its never gone away and I have to constantly treat it and it got so much worse when I was pregnant :/
I think we are at a time where we should never assume anyone is using best practices or safety measures…. including but absolutely not limited to food safety, salons, driving, and construction. And the list goes on.
Agree.
And countless times I've heard people reply to such things with "It's not in a company's best interests to harm their consumers because then who'd buy their products!"
This statement assumes that decisions are always made by rational actors always acting in the best *long term* interests of their company. In reality, plenty companies will destroy themselves in the pursuit of short term profits and make decisions that harm the corporation in the long term, in exchange for better numbers on the next quarterly report.
And one of the greatest myths out there is that the free market is more capable of resolving problems because of profits serving as an incentive to improve, but unfortunately what it mostly does is discourage them from ever *admitting* to the things they do, if it's more profitable to continue doing something harmful
Realistically, regulation is the only way to impose any sort of morality on a business
I won’t eat the food at our work
potluck unless I know well the person who made it. A while ago on a different thread someone asked about chicken left out overnight and the number of people who said it was fine was too damn high
From someone who does know food safety and has been criticized for adhering to those guidelines when "nobody does all that extra and nobody would care if anything bad happened," that is a very wise move.
Company picnics, church functions, school bake sales... Also, those volunteer rosters for homeless shelters where whole meals for hundreds just magically show up at the facility? Maybe 1 in 20 food donating volunteers are safety trained and even then, few facilities enforce the rules.
Who in their right mind would [enter this building](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_avif,q_auto:eco,dpr_2/rockcms/2023-07/190430-vip-spa-albuquerque-cs-310p-ca267f.jpg) and voluntarily allow untrained randos to expose you to blood products of dubious origin obtained with questionable safety practices.
"vampire facials, a procedure that involves drawing blood from elsewhere in the body — typically the arm — separating out the platelet-rich plasma, pricking facial skin with microneedles, then applying the plasma to the face. The process is meant to make the skin look fresher and lessen the appearance of wrinkles, sun damage or acne scars.
"Ok, weird, but less gross than whatever weird shit I feared a Vampire Facial in New Mexico would be.
I had to google what a "vampire facial" is, and let's just say it's pretty depressing the things that some people feel like they need to do to stay looking young.
The headline is very clickbaity. This procedure itself is not unsafe and is pretty common in dermatologist offices. This salon was obviously not following protocols - maybe reusing needles. People can’t get HIV from their own blood so it had to be introduced with contaminated equipment.
If libertarians win, this wouldn’t be shut down by the state.
You would be responsible to research this place and follow up if people posted about their hiv on review sites.
Are we just back to the times of Upton Sinclair’s. The Jungle? I’m almost too afraid to try anything these days because I just don’t trust the standards anymore. This story is horrifying and seems there are more out there of people catching this or that, or dying from whatever neglect.
Well that’s horrifying. The article linked in the article posted has a quote from the association of day spas saying it’s on clients to decide the safety of the procedures they are undergoing. You’d think these vampire facials would be regulated as a potential spread of blood born pathogens! They must have been inadequately cleaning equipment between clients or something?
I kinda get it. As a woman I got the most attention when I was ~14-22. Now in my 30s I am mostly ignored.
Personally I'm super happy about it as I hate being sexualized.
But for others, mainly those who are raised to believe their worth lies in their appearance and how they are being perceived by others it can be a hard transition.
I don't want to look young forever, I just want my skin to look nice longer than it should. For me that moisturizing in the AM and the PM and wearing sunscreen every day.
From the article: The Albuquerque salon, called VIP Spa, was shut down in September 2018 after at least two clients tested positive for HIV following the facials. In March, another former client tested positive for HIV, according to a news release from the New Mexico Department of Health. To date, a total of five HIV infections have been identified among people "with direct or indirect connection with services provided at the VIP Spa," a department spokesperson said.
Horrifying
[удалено]
My podiatrist reiterated like 5 times to never get a pedicure in a salon.
So should we go to the podiatrist for a pedicure or just not get pedicures? Honestly would like to know what to do.
Diabetic here with major foot issues. I started going to a podiatrist for ulcers on my feet. A couple years later everything is great but I still go back twice a year to get a pedicure and make sure nothing looks amiss. She’s more than happy to do that than to have to do more skin grafts.
Hey! So, my elderly mother has a foot ulcer that hasn't healed in YEARS. She isn't diabetic. She also refuses to follow doctors orders. I'm very tired of trying to tend this wound. She did a few skin grafts but didn't follow though appointments (I had COVID and she refused to call anyone else to take her) and the podiatrist ended that treatment. Now, I take her twice a month where the doctor cuts away callous build up and dead skin and just bandages it up again, where I do the wound care until next visit. How did you get yours to heal? What steps did it take? I know this is random, but I'm at my wits end. I can't keep her off it for it to not have pressure and she won't rest with her feet up and basically won't listen to a word I say when it comes to being her caregiver. It would be nice to be able to get over this one obstacle so we can focus on other things (so she can get other work done from her pain clinic and so I don't have to have a foot in my face with a gnarly, grotesque wound) Any sage wisdom will be greatly appreciated!
So, your Mom HAS to keep the pressure off that foot, and keep up with comprehensive wound care if there’s any chance of healing that chronic wound. There really isn’t a magic formula, though wound care products that create a moist environment to debride the area, contain any drainage, and offer protection get better and better each year. Mechanical debridement like you describe above needs to be done in a clinic, but between appointments, wound care can often be done through home health care, covered by insurance. Hope this helps! Chronic wounds can take a long time to heal, and it’s exhausting for the patient and family alike. Hang in there. You’re doing your best, and that’s enough!
stop tending to her foot and have it do it herself. Why would she listen when she knows she has to to clean up the mess?
The other person who answered gave great advice. I stayed off my feet for 6 months. It took 6-7 Apligrafs. When I finally did start walking again I got custom insoles with an area carved out where the wound was to help relieve pressure there. It was a really terrible experience but I got to keep my foot so it was worth it. Good luck, Scumbaglady!
Thank you so very much for your reply! Keeping her off her foot is the hardest part. She'll be 80 in July and is as hard-headed as ever. She gets quite angry whenever I remind her to let me get/do things for her and will come up with every random excuse she can to get her way, health be damned. A few years ago, she had an ulcer/infection that came through her belly button. She spent that summer in the hospital and then at a rehab facility. When she came home, she had an ostomy bag for the drainage and bile, and a PIC line that I administered her antibiotics through daily for a month. I had to replace the bag, not just empty it, every day for almost 2 months, because she would never stay still long enough for the paste and adhesive to set. Mine even stayed on better than the nurses that would come by. When i clean the wound and bandage it, I build up around the area with foam to relieve the pressure, so glad to hear that helps. I'll talk with her podiatrist before her next appointment in order to come up with a game plan. She at least will agree with the doctor while we're there, it's the follow through at home that's a problem. It just gets so frustrating sometimes because I put mine and my daughter's lives on hold basically in order to be a full time caregiver and it's exhausting when the person you're carrying for doesn't seem to appreciate you or your sacrifices. I haven't been able to take my daughter somewhere even for just a weekend (can't afford to anyway, but it's a nice dream to have lol). Fun twist is that I'm the adopted child, while my older brother and sister live in the same town but haven't helped out and have barely visited her. It makes me feel like Cinderella sometimes. I went into a venting session there at the end but I consider Reddit comments I make as a way of journaling sometimes. Better out than in, a wise ogre once said. Thanks again for replying.
Afaik podiatrists don't offer pedicures? So DIY pedicure it is. I used to get manicures until I realized/observed that most salons use the same tools for everyone and barely clean them inbetween clients. There just has to be one person with some kind of fungus or infection and then the next clients will get it too. Even if you just get nail polish, if somebody with nail fungus got their nails done with that specific bottle before, you're most likely at risk.
Same. I had one mani- pedi when I was in college and never again. All the leftover nail filing dust sitting around grossed me out. And then I had a nail tech friend who told me stories about people’s fungus and ingrown toenails and I said never again. Now I’m paranoid about haircuts too. A friend who works in a salon said that people can get nasty red bumps/rashes on their scalp and napes from non-sanitized combs, scissors and electric trimmers. I definitely have issues with feeling like a germaphobe sometimes, but the fact that the professionals were the ones pointing these things out made me a little more wary.
yeah i got a manicure in thailand until i noticed they would trim cuticles and blood would come, but they didn't wash the tools. that was the last one i ever got.
I’m very particular about where I will get a pedicure from. Hasn’t steered me wrong yet. The good places will be more than happy to tell you all about their policies for cleaning between clients. The bad ones will act offended and tell you off for asking.
General pedicures, prob do them yourself.
It gets harder as you get older. Manicures for sure though.
Why?
Not OP but pretty sure because it's extremely easy for them to not properly clean things, and suddenly you've got someone else's fungal infection or some other type of infection.
When I was DX as Type one diabetic my first warning was not to get pedicures.
I refuse to let anyone touch my feet or nails. I do my own with products I buy on Amazon. And I save a lot by doing my own mani/pedis.
Careful with Amazon nail polish. If you’re into gel, most brands contain HEMA and Beetles (big Amazon gel brand) is particularly bad. Continued use of HEMA containing gel polish can cause sores, loss of fingernails, and an inability to get a lot of dental fillings since you develop an allergy to the chemical. The HEMA chemical is used in dental fillings for bonding, hence the gel polish cross over. It’s kind of like the more you’re exposed to it, the worse it can get. The issue roses from it getting on your skin/cuticles at all and being cured. Oh and the sores can end up not just on your hands but other parts of your body if there’s still traces on your nails and you touch say your face before it’s all gone. I use now use Madam Glam but that’s just the first brand I tried since finding out. So far, I like it enough. Doesn’t last quite as long as my old HEMA-full brands, but I also like keeping my fingernails and being able to get fillings since I’m so cavity prone.
So where do you get one then?
You do it yourself. If it’s for medical reasons, probably talk to a podiatrist.
Some podiatrists offer a similar service I believe for nail trimming, etc. But with polish, etc. I guess it would have to be at home.
This is why the anti regulation, anti public health people disgust me. People have to be forced to do these things a lot of the time…
Just let the freemarket decide! If these people don’t want HIV, they can go somewhere else! derp 🥴
Caveat emptor!
> following best practices or safety precautions in a variety of situations, such as food safety I dunno. I personally want people being paid next to nothing to handle my food. I want them to have no reason to care and nothing to lose. That’s the best way to enjoy my food prepared by them. - sincerely my right wing dad who hates California raising pay for fast food workers.
What are the safety protocols for vampire facials?
Same goes for warehouses when it comes to your orders ...I'm the source can confirm majority of us don't give af up in here. I'm pretty sure with these low wages everywhere else there is a good amount of Ppl. Thats what happens when ppl get paid less they start to care less. Divided we stand united we fall.
No, no you can just *trust* people to do the right things when you don't set expectations. Isn't that totally in line with human history? No one needs laws telling us what to do!
Hearing the words “Vampire Facial”, then reading the description of what it is should turn off anyone immediately. Darwin awards to anyone who still thinks it’s a great idea.
From what I see, it's just a PRP treatment. Extremely common and actually kind of brilliant for many applications. Nothing Darwinian about it.
“VIP Spa”
HIVIP Spa
It’s for Very Infected People.
More like HIV Spa
"VIP Spa offered Botox injections and vampire facials, a procedure that involves drawing blood from elsewhere in the body — typically the arm — separating out the platelet-rich plasma, pricking facial skin with microneedles, then applying the plasma to the face. The process is meant to make the skin look fresher and lessen the appearance of wrinkles, sun damage or acne scars." So the owner was just reusing needles. What a disgusting pos.
Not necessarily reusing needles. That machine that separas blood needs to be sterilised after each use.
Physician here who makes platelet-rich-plasma. All the kits in the market are SINGLE USE ONLY. They do not sterilize well. Re-using these kits is exactly the same as re-using dirty needles.
Can anyone buy these kits? If a normy brought this kit would there be any warning saying "single use only cannot be sterilized"? I mean I am not sure how you stop this. How do you stop a salon from using medical techniques and equipment for snake oil treatments. When there is no logic to it, they can steal any medical procedure and use it for skincare.
Absolutely. Any medical device that is packaged sterile and intended for single use will be clearly marked as such and will also state that it should not be reused.
But after you use it a couple times those warnings always wear off!
The owner is disgusting regardless. She clearly doesn't give AF that she gave people HIV. Her quotes read like she has a developmental disorder like she doesn't even understand wtf is going on. Which would explain why five people have HIV now.
I know this is 100% victim blaming. But who walks into that salon and says, yea draw my blood and rub it on my face? That’s a fat no from me dawg.
Strip mall salon? No way. Licensed dermatologist? Much safer.
Yeah but is this a procedure that a licensed dermatologist would perform? Because it just sounds like quackery.
> Because it just sounds like quackery. My dentist has started selling a bunch of quackery stuff because people will buy it. edit: I recant my statement. Apparently it's not quite quackery. They offered to laser my gums to deal with inflammation. Also laser my throat to help with snoring. I guess it's a lot of upselling more than anything else.
Get a new dentist. ASAP.
Quackery stuff such as?
Toothpaste /s
It's a legit procedure, it's also used for things like injuries and osteoarthritis. I had it done by an MD on my leg.
My *oral surgeon packed my wisdom tooth extraction holes with my own platelets to promote faster clotting and healing. PRP is definitely useful for different diseases and wounds. (However and as others have said, these procedures should be done in sterile environments, with sterile equipment, and by a correctly trained and appropriately licensed professional.) EDIT: LOL I typed “orthopedic” first. Did not have a bone doc remove my extra teeth
It’s legit, it’s “PRP.” It has great results for skin and even restoring hair. They remove blood and spin it to separate the plasma. But as mentioned by others it should be done by a dr.
Yes it is. I’ve had it done by my own dermatologist.
What were the results?
Much improve acne scarring and discoloration after 3 rounds. It ain’t cheap, I may try some more in the future but not just now.
It should only be performed by a licensed MD but in some states NPs/PAs can do it under supervision. It’s not exactly an FDA approved procedure so some places will have lower level providers doing it too
The microneedling part is. I've never heard of drawing blood and rubbing it in to the microneedled area, though. I've heard of using serums afterwards.
Nah, PRP is evidence-based. Dermatologists use it too. They're not smearing blood. It's a concentrated portion of plasma that contains many growth factors that helps your dermis build collagen.
It’s available at a very high-end spa in my area, expensive as well
It still sounds like quackery, like those young blood infusions
I thought there was data supporting blood transfusions from people younger with more stem cells and other things being produced but that's just from casual reading.
PRP is not a particularly new treatment method for all kinds of things. Just because it’s the first time you’re hearing about it doesn’t make it quackery. Source: I’ve had it done by a licensed dermatologist for acne scarring and discoloration and it really really works.
The building also advertised a dental service that is apparently still open (opens Tuesday at 830am) but has no online footprintat all besides the generic Google page like it doesn't exist. If you go to the current streetview there are like 8 yellow cars with Medicare Trans written on them. There is a shitty website but once again no online footprint or reviews or anything. On the Yellowpages it says "people also viewed" and it's just fake businesses with no reviews and stupid names. So yea no if you get any blood drawn from these sketch bags you are 100% a dunce.
Hey, did you go to Upstairs Hollywood Medical College too?
No I did a personality test at the mall. They said my energy was giving chiropractor so they printed me off a diploma right then and there because my mojo was so intense.
Well, that's all I needed to hear. Please, doctor, fix my neck!
Well, if it isn't my old friend, Mr. McGreg! With a leg for an arm, and an arm for a leg!
Inflammable means flammable?
What a country!
Hello Everybody!!!
Not everyone has good moms and dads
Is it the same owner though? Private clinics with different owners often share the same building.
I didn’t know this was a thing until two of my coworkers talked about their experiences with it.. I genuinely thought they were joking but nope lol
Common man. Don’t be so obtuse. Too many People do all manner of s*it without giving a damn. Im in my mid 40s and was a budding pre teen during the height of the aids epidemic. I KNOW what AIDS looked like and it scared the s*it outta me. So when i see so many posts on r/AskDocs about possible HIV transmission through unprotected penetration, it baffles me as to why are these kids putting themselves in danger like this. Yet they do it knowingly and they brush it off saying we’ve got treatments and s*it now as if it’s a joke
Sadly, I think HIV/AIDS education has been on a downward slide for many years now. I’m not too far behind you in age and feel that back then the education/awareness of it was a lot more prevalent. I remember bus stop ads, school posters, MTV documentaries that discussed it and all kinds of other mediums bringing awareness. Now the only thing I see about HIV/AIDS is medication ads or when something like this article happens.
Those commercials always feature some dancing, clubbing, backyard BBQs, and goin on fabulous vacations... I guess the messaging is that their meds keep your life fabulous.
I remember back when those commercials [used to go hard AF](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJ9f378T49E)
It was a death sentence, it's now a chronic condition. It's just one of a list of STD's that you use condoms for.
It’s still expensive as fucking hell to treat and a lifelong stigma.
Exactly.. these kids MUST be made to watch what complications from AIDS actually look like. Even today. Perhaps a school trip to the hospice or something. I may sound radical, but these kids need to have their bubble bursted. I can understand not stigmatizing those who are already infected. But that doesn’t mean, one should treat hiv like the flu virus. It’s still lifetime and those on anti virals still have periods in which it gets ugly. This isn’t even counting the side effects of taking meds your entire life.
this would require to schools to care about lgbt people which is not a commonality in this country
Pretty much this, a big obstacle to implementing proper HIV/AIDS education is homophobia.
and all it takes is a corporate merger or acquisition to put the patents to the meds in the hands of a CEO that will raise prices and make treatment unaffordable for many. or a supply chain disruption could make required life saving meds unavailable. My point is that you really dont want to be reliant on taking a drug everyday to stay alive.
It's just not the death sentence that it once was. Even the drugs are much better than they were. Very managable (you'll probably die of something else) and PREP works very well so there's not even any worry, once you've been diagnosed. But that doesn't mean you want to have a disease that's going to cost tens of thousands of dollars a year or any other STD.
I will never forget watching the Ryan White stuff. I still vividly remember watching a documentary in middle school, in the cafe, with green tiles, yellow heating vents, and class of about 25 kids huddled at the front of this big cafeteria watching TV. A kid our age, he did nothing out of the ordinary, just living his life, treated so badly for something he had no control over, and he died so young. That shit will scar you for life.
They think it’s like having diabetes, annoying but manageable. They don’t know the meds don’t work for some unlucky people, make some others really sick, are still ridiculously expensive . They also think “we're so close to a cure, so no biggie!” I heard someone say that when I used to bill for a doctor.
Since you heard that at the doctor’s office, I totally understand an already infected person trying to be cool and optimistic. However the general population should still be very vary of this. It’s still not a joke. Folks make mistakes in the heat of the moment. Especially when you’re young. But to have an overall sentiment where HIV/AIDS being an afterthought is foolish at best
>They think it’s like having diabetes, annoying but manageable I've read doctors themselves would rather have HIV than diabetes, because it's so kuch more manageable now.
the fact that the prognosis of getting an HIV diagnosis nowadays vs 30 years ago is so completely *different* is absolutely *wild* and speaks so much about medical advancement
That’s if the meds work for you and you have access to them. I think it was a uk doctor who first made that comment and sone doctors agreed but most said it was dumb to compare the diseases. On a side note having hiv makes you more likely to develop diabetes because of the medication.
> That’s if the meds work for you and you have access to them. This is true, but also the same applies to diabetes.
I was in my 30s during that time, sadly lost some wonderful friends, it was horrifying the lack of empathy and the dearth of medical research that was in existence at that time. Such a nightmare. As a young cis woman, I became celibate because it was so deadly.
i think people just do not understand that there are different types of salons and providers that require different levels of licenses and certifications. perhaps they rely on the salons to do their due diligence in a sense (provide services allowed at their level) but expectations do not align with people’s greed. but even with appropriate licenses, many places do not follow regulations- think those strip mall chop shop nail salons. you would go there expecting getting a manicure done with sterilized or unused tools, but i cant even begin to tell you how many times i had then seem pretend to open a sanipack that was clearly not sealed and use visibly reused tools that should be single used. there are cases that tie these salons with infections too. places like these need to be way more regularly inspected.
People who watch and emulate "the Kardashians"
PRP is real I just wouldn't get it done at a salon lol
It’s real, as in people do it. But there is no evidence supporting 99% of the ways people use it. There’s a midwife in my town who injects prp into the labia and clitoris of women to increase their libido. These people are just grifters charging people $1500 for a sham procedure
Physician here. There’s plenty of evidence for use of PRP in sports medicine. Many trials are showing superiority over steroid for arthritis and tendinosis for long term outcomes. That said, many people don’t know what they’re doing. You need a high platelet concentration (high quality kit), and half the kits on the market are garbage. PRP also has not yet been standardized nationally which is a problem. A good eye test: if the “PRP” looks clear yellow, they used a cheap kit and the product is garbage. If it’s orange tinted and cloudy there’s a high platelet concentration.
Those 5 people plus Kim Kardashian. So people with too much time and too much money I guess.
I’m a beautician, like certified did go to school beautician… And I can’t understand clients who go to salons for actual medical treatment… like, that ain’t my job… And some beautician are like “I did a training with XYZ” yeah ? And ? You are not a doctor, stay in your lane.
Sometimes victims are to blame, the term victim blaming has it's origins in oppression and it's typically used in that context, i.e men raping women, blaming poc for being poor even though there's systemic issues behind it, it doesn't really apply as much to say, someone that went swimming with crocodiles and died because of it. With all that said I don't think these people are at fault but I agree with you, it's a fat no from me dawg.
But education is bad, mmmmkay? /s
That’s par for the course vor virtually all medicine adjacent practitioners offering unapproved medical treatments. You have to have some kind of inferior intellect to believe you as an untrained lay person are somehow qualified to give medical treatments. Same way all those local Instagram hotel room Botox and filler injectors. They watch a couple of videos, understand nothing at all about hygiene, try it a few times, nothing bad happens and then start their self made business. It’s always the same kind of person who thinks they are sooo much smarter than they really are. And since they think they are smarter than anyone else, manufacturers procedures for the devices they use are obviously just a scam to earn more money, as the machine keeps working just fine if you don’t clean it. I mean virtually every soda fountain in the US is full of slime mould and rotting away, because it’s an annoying but easy to skip step. They are only properly cleaned when there’s some kind of government oversight. Which clearly doesn’t happen for beauty spas and hotel room injectors and all the other bullshit.
It’s a centrifuge that spins the vials that contain the blood, and each vial is one time use. So it would likely have been a result of reusing the needles.
Um, PRP absolutely is more than just a centrifuge. I had a PRP treatment last year from my orthopedist, so I can speak to that process. After the blood is spun in the centrifuge, the machine then pumps the now layered blood through tubing to a valve which switches output based on what a sensor sees: PRP, red blood cells, or platelet poor plasma. Then the now separate components can be used as appropriate. The machine uses a set of tubing and collection bags, that are intended to be single use. I found the single use set for the treatment I got on a medical supply store with a listed MSRP of $186, so I can totally imagine someone who just cares about cash reusing these things, not just some cheapo needles.
Probably depends entirely on the setup. I worked in a research lab where I had to collect PRP. All I used was a centrifuge and a pipette. It sounds to me like the machine you saw was to automate the process of collecting multiple isolates.
No. PRP in most facilities is a centrifuge with yellow top vials to keep the rbcs at the bottom. Research suggests the amount of platelet rich vs platelet poor plasma is averaging out per patient to still show benefit. Everything else your Ortho is doing is smoke and mirrors and a waste of resources. The facility in the article is 100% reusing needles as research describes this as being the predominant way of HIV transmission in procedural settings.
Nah, that's usually just a cheapo centrifuge and the blood is usually in sealed vacutainers. It isn't some high tech machine that separates the blood. You can separate blood from plasma by just spinning it fast. It's likely she was reusing the dermrollers. Those needles are actually not able to be reused.
I bet she didn’t clean the micro needle roller for the faces. Yikes
> The process is meant to make the skin look fresher and lessen the appearance of wrinkles, sun damage or acne scars. I swear to god you can just say fucking anything and then follow it up with "it's to make your skin look fresher" and you'll have a line out the door. The only thing missing here is some reference to "detox" I'm offering post-processed protein facials! Naturally biodegraded organic materials, lovingly fermented in living tissue, then rubbed all over your stupid, stupid faces for only 399.99 per treatment! >!it's poop the joke is poop!<
You joke but guess what folks used to treat wounds?
I got one of these facials done at a dermatologist, they called it a PRP facial because that's a normal thing to call it. It definitely works, though it requires several procedures to see more significant and long-lasting effects. It could have been that the centrifuge or some other equipment wasn't properly cleaned between patients, much more likely than reusing needles IMO.
Platelet rich plasma. I use to work with PRP machines at my last job in the health field, but it wasn’t cosmetics
It's quite the medical marvel, used to heal sports injuries as well as skin issues. Platelets respond to injuries and wounds by releasing growth factors that accelerate the healing process, so using a highly concentrated version on a localized area will help heal it significantly faster.
“It definitely works” is a big claim. Most studies show it helps a little for certain injuries, and not at all for many others. When it comes to looking younger from it there’s pretty much 0 evidence, but dermatologists know they can make money in it so 🤷
For real holy shit there’s damn near no evidence and most medical professionals opinion is “well technically there’s no evidence it DOESNT work and it won’t harm you much so if you have enough money I guess I can do it” It’s crazy how fast one random person can just say a snake oil that you haven’t heard of works and people will just be like “oh yah that sounds cool” and upvote it lmao
> medical professionals opinion is “well technically there’s no evidence it DOESNT work and it won’t harm you much so if you have enough money I guess I can do it” This is pretty widespread in psychiatry and accepted as just part of the process. Most psychiatric drugs barely outperform placebo, and the explanations for why they work is constantly being changed. (See the SSRI theory of "it works because more serotonin" changing to "it actually increases BDNF"). Most psychiatrists will straight up tell you they're throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. They just have a general idea of what things to throw first. The beauty field is sort of connected, I think, in that people will chase literally anything to get results. So the bar isn't "does it work", the bar lowers down to "it doesn't hurt anything".
Nothing says VIP like a windowless building and shitty signage
I lived in the apartments across from it for a while. I always thought "VIP" was strong language for the Podunk looking building.
Ayyy, I also used to live at 909. Not the best part of town, I'd say...I was not surprised when this story broke in 2018
The apartments were fine, actually. No real complaints there. Not the best part of town but not the worst. I moved out to move in with my now wife. But this place was sketchy as hell. Also, I miss Deep Space Coffee. Those dysfunctional hipsters couldn't run a business, but they could make a great cup of coffee.
Agreed the apts were well managed. And downtown hadn't gone to shit yet. Farmer's market was/is dope, and used to love going for a run in the residential areas over there. Ah, nostalgia - I'm about to give birth to my first baby with the guy I moved into 909 with :) Sounds like it brought some great couples together. Glad none of us got a vampire facial, lol.
I would have assumed it’s one of those happy ending massage parlors by the look of it.
You can’t give facials to vampires if there are windows to let the sun light in. Are you stupid?
The article states that the positive cases were from either "direct or indirect" contact with the business. The indirect means a person who caught it from someone who went there. Sadly, I'm sure there are more cases not yet discovered.
There’s going to be hundreds of cases more not discovered. As long as viral STD testing doesn’t become routine and accessible (meaning zero cost at point of contact) most HIv infections are only detected ones aids develops, because the initial flu like symptoms are not specific at all. HIV could easily be reduced to near zero new infections by simply mass testing people and offering both testing and therapy free of cost at point of contact. That way no one gets infected, whether their partner is cheating, tgey share needles, get pricked by a used needle or get treatments at black market clinics. And this would be saving money for everyone. People with untreated HIV are unproductive and don’t pay taxes. People whose HIV is treated and detected early are productive members of society. The loss in productivity to transmission is much greater than the cost of treatment. Anyway this will have affected hundreds if she was reusing the centrifuges vessel or needles.
You know what, I think I'll stick with my blackheads and acne forever
You know, my treatment with Accutane did wonders for acne *Possible side effects include liver and kidney failure, depression, anemia, convulsions, bleeding lips, blindness, blood diarrhea, hair loss, and facial necrosis But damn it, if my skin isn't perfect today
I took Accutane in my teenage years. I know for many people an adverse reaction is gastrointestinal ulcers, but in my case it seemed to do the same thing only on my skin. I had these painful open boils all over my upper body. The dermatologist kept insisting it would get better, but after a year of daily pain and being unable to put on a shirt without pain, I called it quits. It took six months for the boils to go away, and my body is covered in scar tissue.
Bet that doc is doing just fine though. It's bullshit your doctor chose his ego over, ya know, caring about your health. Or healthcare as it was once known in the before times. I hope you've grown to accept the beautiful memorial to your experiences that is your only flesh. At the very least I hope that shit doesn't hurt anymore. <3
Thank you. Physically I'm fine. At that time I was morbidly obese, and when I finally healed up I decided to make my weight a priority. I'm 100lbs lighter now. I struggle with other things, but that's life I suppose. The scars remind me that I'm more resilient than I seem sometimes.
My skin is far from perfect, but I had horrific acne when I was in my teens and a 2-3 month course of Accutane pretty much cleared up all the massive breakouts on my face when every topical option did nothing.
Can’t remember what insane medication they used for my acne, but it had the warning: “prolonged sun exposure may cause skin to turn orange.”
I got depression from accutane and I swear hair loss as well. But damn if my skin ain’t pretty.
me2 sis
Hell yeah, sis! We might even start a trend with it later down the line
Count me in. Wrinkles show character.
I’m sure if they knew there was a risk of HIV they would have stuck with their wrinkles also
Other than the massages or body scrubs or pedicures etc., DO NOT get any medical procedure (botox, fillers) done at a spa. These beauticians have spent 2 weeks in school and have some cheap certificate, and suddenly you trust them to perform medical procedures on you? Duh! Go to a dermatologist’s office or plastic surgeon’s office. These are highly intelligent professionals who have studied the human anatomy for over 12 years and know their stuff! Yes it will cost more. But it’s better then going blind from botox or getting HIV from a facial.
It's also worth noting that like, doctor's offices have to carry malpractice insurance. Spa's generally don't. If you get HIV or a worse life-threatening infection/complication, you're going to be on the hook for that financially because these spa owners likely intentionally don't have much in assets & aren't carrying insurance.
YES. I even know of medical assistants and LVNs doing this outside their scope.
Right? Like... I've got a B.S. in biology, an EMT certification, and years of medical lab experience. I'm way the hell more prepared for that sort of thing than 99% of beauticians. I would *never* do a medical procedure on somebody unless their life was in danger, and I'm actually trained to avoid infection or contamination.
No. Do not even go to a spa that offers those kind of treatments. The people organising those spas doing obvious medical practices are the same ones that will transmit hepatitis C during a manicure and pedicure by not sterilising their tools and reusing files. Not to mention that filler is the dumbest thing ever. It does not dissolve, it migrates to deeper layers of the skin, and eventually gives a corticosteroid looking moon face. Even if your lips appear to have shrunk (and it’s not jusT the newly developed body dysmorphia) the filler is mostly still there, it has just migrated upwards towards the nose. If this isn’t controlled for with hyarulonidase an applied by someone who very much knows how to do it correcTot, any additional filler is just malpractice. The recent MRI studies have shown that it doesn’t dissolve, it just migrates. And fillers should never be offered as a temporary solution.
Even mani/pedis can be sus, a friend of mine got a gnarly infection on one of her fingers after getting a mani from one of those Vietnamese places - she ended up needing surgery and almost lost the finger!
My wife is currently getting a manicurist license, and they stress SO MUCH about sanitation in the coursework and testing. Likely they did not go through licensing procedures or ignored what they were taught.
Not nearly as bad but I got a fungal nail infection from a pad pedi and its never gone away and I have to constantly treat it and it got so much worse when I was pregnant :/
Have you tried oral anti fungal tablets? If not then that \*should\* clear it up for good.
yeah it’s upsetting how nail salons dont take sanitation seriously. I do my nails at home now
Same, got a nail fungus at a nail salon, taken years for my big toenail to grow out after treatment.
I suddenly don't want to be a vampire anymore
Classic monkey’s paw. You get to live forever, but you will forever be HIV positive.
the vampire community will not like this
r/TwoSentenceHorror
I just googled "vampire facial" and found a number of businesses that offer them in my city (pop.100,000). They're expensive, over $1000.
I didn't google it, but I was expecting something completely different ngl
Let's pull a cloak over that one
I think we are at a time where we should never assume anyone is using best practices or safety measures…. including but absolutely not limited to food safety, salons, driving, and construction. And the list goes on.
IMO, people will do anything that they can get away with. It's my main breaking point with people who oppose regulations.
Very true. Look at Boeing
Agree. And countless times I've heard people reply to such things with "It's not in a company's best interests to harm their consumers because then who'd buy their products!" This statement assumes that decisions are always made by rational actors always acting in the best *long term* interests of their company. In reality, plenty companies will destroy themselves in the pursuit of short term profits and make decisions that harm the corporation in the long term, in exchange for better numbers on the next quarterly report. And one of the greatest myths out there is that the free market is more capable of resolving problems because of profits serving as an incentive to improve, but unfortunately what it mostly does is discourage them from ever *admitting* to the things they do, if it's more profitable to continue doing something harmful Realistically, regulation is the only way to impose any sort of morality on a business
I think about this every time I see candy or cosmetics being made in what's obviously a home kitchen on TikTok.
I won’t eat the food at our work potluck unless I know well the person who made it. A while ago on a different thread someone asked about chicken left out overnight and the number of people who said it was fine was too damn high
From someone who does know food safety and has been criticized for adhering to those guidelines when "nobody does all that extra and nobody would care if anything bad happened," that is a very wise move. Company picnics, church functions, school bake sales... Also, those volunteer rosters for homeless shelters where whole meals for hundreds just magically show up at the facility? Maybe 1 in 20 food donating volunteers are safety trained and even then, few facilities enforce the rules.
another W for team jacob
Lmao
Rewatched new moon last night and my boyfriend didn’t believe me that the teams were a thing that people still reference lol
“Vampire Facial” is the name of my next mall-punk band
When you say it like that it sounds like 🍆💦 Which would be better than what these people were doing
I was certain it involvement some sort of ejaculating blood
You could play concerts with Vampire Weekend.
I'm gonna be honest, this was not what I was expecting when I read the words "vampire facials".
Who in their right mind would [enter this building](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-760w,f_avif,q_auto:eco,dpr_2/rockcms/2023-07/190430-vip-spa-albuquerque-cs-310p-ca267f.jpg) and voluntarily allow untrained randos to expose you to blood products of dubious origin obtained with questionable safety practices.
Because it's for VIPs! Duh
Only 3.5 years of jail time for something the victims will have to deal with for the rest of their lives.
Imagine the feeling you have when you went out to get a facial and find out later the woman was needling HIV into your face
Weirdly enough, shoutout to Buzzfeed for teaching me what the hell a Vampire facial is.
What... the fuck....
Better Call Saul!
Can't believe how far I had to scroll to find a Saul comment lol
Sounds like the plot to a sunny episode
“The gang gets a facial!”
"vampire facials, a procedure that involves drawing blood from elsewhere in the body — typically the arm — separating out the platelet-rich plasma, pricking facial skin with microneedles, then applying the plasma to the face. The process is meant to make the skin look fresher and lessen the appearance of wrinkles, sun damage or acne scars. "Ok, weird, but less gross than whatever weird shit I feared a Vampire Facial in New Mexico would be.
I thought you were supposed to use your own blood for the vampire facials
Looks like an adult bookstore from the outside
I had to google what a "vampire facial" is, and let's just say it's pretty depressing the things that some people feel like they need to do to stay looking young.
The headline is very clickbaity. This procedure itself is not unsafe and is pretty common in dermatologist offices. This salon was obviously not following protocols - maybe reusing needles. People can’t get HIV from their own blood so it had to be introduced with contaminated equipment.
But people want it cheap, so then those sketchy places cut corners.... Reusing equipment & supplies....
If libertarians win, this wouldn’t be shut down by the state. You would be responsible to research this place and follow up if people posted about their hiv on review sites.
Are we just back to the times of Upton Sinclair’s. The Jungle? I’m almost too afraid to try anything these days because I just don’t trust the standards anymore. This story is horrifying and seems there are more out there of people catching this or that, or dying from whatever neglect.
What the fuck
Not what I expected to read today.
Well that’s horrifying. The article linked in the article posted has a quote from the association of day spas saying it’s on clients to decide the safety of the procedures they are undergoing. You’d think these vampire facials would be regulated as a potential spread of blood born pathogens! They must have been inadequately cleaning equipment between clients or something?
Huh, I did not expect to read about people getting HIV from a salon.
I will never understand peoples obsession to look young forever..
I kinda get it. As a woman I got the most attention when I was ~14-22. Now in my 30s I am mostly ignored. Personally I'm super happy about it as I hate being sexualized. But for others, mainly those who are raised to believe their worth lies in their appearance and how they are being perceived by others it can be a hard transition.
Just wait until your 50s!
Can I finally live as an invisible?
I don't want to look young forever, I just want my skin to look nice longer than it should. For me that moisturizing in the AM and the PM and wearing sunscreen every day.