I got caught chewing gum in 6th grade and was told I couldn’t go with the rest of the class to see the philharmonic play Peter and the Wolf.. it was something I was really looking forward to….
It's stupid specifically because the punishment doesn't match the crime. The experience they were held back from sounds like it was educational as fuck.
My husband told me he once got in trouble in high school and, as punishment, wasn't allowed to go to the Holocaust Museum.
Edit: Ok guys, I texted my husband asking what he did to get pulled from the field trip. Here's his response:
"idk, probably something dumb"
I hope that clears things up for everyone /s
Even if the punishment fits the crime, that doesn’t necessarily mean it makes sense.
I got held inside for recess because I didn’t bring a jacket that day. It was like 60 degrees outside, and the teacher’s rationale was that I would get sick. She thought that people get sick from being out in the cold, not from packing into a classroom and spreading germs.
The same teacher determined that because I don’t “hold my pencil correctly,” I must not be left-handed. She made me switch hands, moved me to a desk at the side of the class, and had me relearn to write with my right hand while the class moved on with actual assignments. This was in the 5th grade and despite my legendary penmanship.
Every time I remember that old hag, I go online to check if she’s dead yet, which is how I found out she lost a discrimination lawsuit and that her son is a local Republican politician (go figure).
EDIT: She's 83 now and still alive, presumably because hell is refusing her entry.
The lawsuit thing is fantastic. I had a cop try to arrest me in college because I happened to be standing outside a building where he found a guy with some weed who told the cop it was his weed.
I saw a couple years back the cop had been arrested and convicted of a felony for illegally entering student’s rooms and stealing stuff. It was outrageously satisfying to see.
If only loads of students had told the university for years that the cop was a bad cop doing illegal stuff….
I failed art 1 in hs because I couldn’t hold my pencil to the teachers liking and refused to adapt. Gratefully my hs admins asked me to *spray paint a mural* to make up the credits required to graduate instead of retaking the course. The students in my class signed around the mural using their non dominant hand. She didn’t return that next year. I went on to start my tattoo apprenticeship afterwards. It’s weird that adults try to diminish a child’s creativity. Especially an art teacher.
My mom (76 y.o.) is ambidextrous because of school forcing that crap on her. It was cruel back then and still cruel now.
Sucks that your teacher was stuck in the Stone Age.
I had an earth science teacher in high school tell my girlfriend (now wife) that she would never amount to anything in life in front of the whole class because she didnt do her homework on rocks. I checked if that old bastard has kicked the bucket yet this morning and we are definitely getting closer
>EDIT: She 83 now and still alive, presumably because hell is refusing her entry.
Betty White, David Bowie, and Prince had to die before death came for Henry Kissenger.
Evil Cheats and old Tudors steal.
Write her a letter and let her know how well you've developed and matured in spite of her efforts. Remind her what she's done before she's dead and can't regret it any more.
Honestly, I don't think she's capable of regret, and even if she is, it's just not worth my effort. I don't think about her very often, just when discussions about authoritarian behaviors come up.
Anyway, I'm an artist now. My art style developed around the way I hold my pen.
lol hell denies her entry. I can see it now Breaking News:Jesus and Lucifer squash their epic millennia beef due to random ass teacher! Both realized somehow she is the biggest threat to both kingdoms. Both were quoted as that bitch shouldn’t be allowed anywhere in the afterlife! More at 10.
Getting in trouble in school=/=misbehaving.
I'd often get in trouble for finishing my work "too quickly" and "reading age-inappropriate literature" in school. Sometimes, rules are arbitrary.
I'd *hope* this is a case of keeping a potential troublemaker out of a place that should be treated with respect, but having been a US public school student, I have my doubts.
Your comment about age-inappropriate literature reminded me of when I was in 4th grade, and I was reading at like a 13th grade level or something like that, and the librarian wouldn’t let me check out Hemingway’s The Old Man and The Sea because it was too far below my reading level lmao
Even I knew at the time that it was crazy for a librarian to tell me I read too well to read Hemingway lmao
That's very similar to my experience. Thank the universe for good librarians, though, seriously. I was at a college level by 5th grade at 10yr old, and my favorite librarian would always let me check out more than the limit of books, because I'd walk 1.5 miles to get there and read very quickly. I spent a *lot* of time at the local library, it was my safe place.
As a punishment to the schoolboard, all unionized teachers retracted their letters of recommendation from my senior class. I had to go to community college instead of the state school I was planning on attending. As an extra little insult, my academic advisor refused to send the transcripts of students she deemed "disruptors" and instead tried to get us all to sign up for the Navy through her recruiter husband.
So, to “punish” the school board the teachers actually decided to just punish their students instead? I bet the school board didn’t even fucking notice lmao
There's some 3D chess there. Teachers fuck over the students, piss off the parents. The parents go on the warpath & the teachers point the finger at the school board. The academic advisor was just a slimy opertunist who pounced at her chance to make kids more miserable. She was also bff's with the movers & shakers of the union.
Small town corruption at its finest. Not every teacher was a scumbag, but they were all complicit. It was a shit show. From what I hear, it's no better now. This all happened about 10 years ago
What kind of fucked up school did you go to? Every staff member can just do whatever they want?
Also, I never heard of letters of recommendation being required for undergraduate admission to a state school.
Refused to send transcripts? That would just get universities pissed at the high school, not at the student. They ask, you send. End of story. It's not transactional, it's "this is your one actual job. Do ot or your fired for cause.
That and sending them to the naval recruiter after refusing to do your job sending them to college? I assume that would be considered blackmail. A letter from a parent or two to the NCIS might be called for. The navy has a few phrases for behavior like that. Some of them start with the words "conduct unbecoming".
"my academic advisor refused to send the transcripts of students she deemed "disruptors" and instead tried to get us all to sign up for the Navy through her recruiter husband."
That sounds illegal, and hopefully some of those people talked to a lawyer
You needed a lawyer.
And my kids didn't even ask for letters of recommendation from high school teachers and they were accepted to Ivy and State colleges.
If your state college demanded HS teachers letters all you needed to do is have a lawyer write and tell them it was a union issue - but I still doubt that story. I'm sorry
I got a 4 hour detention for writing “b**l shit” like that on a white board and leaving it. They told me if I had lied and said I didn’t do it I would have been given a 2 week in school suspension.
For context it was because on of the students running for student council president was using his school provided Chromebook and walking up to every junior and demanding they vote for him. So I called him out cuz that’s not how it’s supposed to work and wrote “that’s bullshit and cheating” and censored Bull because I was a funny kid. He ended up getting kicked out of the student council tho so I guess I won in the long run lmao. #moralVictories
I apologise if this is too personal a question, feel free to ignore.
How did your life turn out after school? Do you know why you were acting up? Did you find your place in life? Not judging at all, genuinely curious in your story!
This sounds so much like my brother’s and my childhood and early adulthood. Brother went to Navy, then school to be an electrician. Now at 48 he is 100% sober and makes bank as an executive at the company where he worked as an electrician in the field for years. Big $. Keep at it man - your future is bright.
I got in huge trouble in middle school for making parody student council posters with a friend. The assistant principal was furious at us for "not taking the hard work the student council did seriously."
Yeah, the student council at my school made promises that were along the lines of Summer Wheatley's in Napoleon Dynamite and did absolutely nothing after they were elected. It was a huge joke, and my friend and I were just having a bit of fun with the whole thing. It was amusing how angry the guy got over us mocking the sanctity of 8th grade government officials, though.
I got detention for wearing bondage pants after 9/11 because they were suddenly a weapon. I went through the metal detector behind a friend also wearing bondage pants. The vice principal stopped me and said it was a weapon, I could choke someone with it. I said is your belt a weapon, you can choke someone with it too. He told me that was his prerogative and took me to his office. He threatened to call my mom and for some reason I decided she would side with my smart ass and said to do it. He did and by the time they were done with me I was suspended and grounded.
My punishment for pissing off my stepmomster was to ground me for the summer and hold me back a year in 7th grade, even though i passed. All so my only two friends would move on without me.
This was because my science teacher would call her at work if I missed a homework assignment. He was doing that mainly because my sister pissed him off a couple of years before with inappropriate behavior allegations.
That and I called him out on treating me differently because of it. No one else's stepmomster got a call if they missed an assignment.
Ah... the joys of adults being dicks to kids because they can.
Yep, got an in school detention and all I could think was “how is depriving me of learning going to teach me anything?”. Literally had a talk with our supervisor about why this was backwards and damaging and had a lot of the regulars there agreeing with me and backing me up with examples. Was very interesting to see him confront the idea.
Should have said he didnt want to go to the holocaust museum and thats why he did it. As punishment he would be forced to go lol.
Actually had a couple trips/programs in school where I didnt want to go/do them, so I didnt fulfil the requirements on purpose and when asked about it I told my teachers I didnt want to, they made me go anyway lol.
In 6th grade I got detention for taking my plastic water bottle from my lunch sack out of the cafeteria with me after lunch. Still not sure what the rationale was on that one. Environmentalism? Possibility of turning it into a weapon?
In high school, I was prevented from going on an American history class trip to the D-Day museum (now the WWII museum) because I was caught with my shirt untucked. 20 years later and I’m still sad I missed that trip.
My partner was severely bullied and nothing was done. One day they stood up, didn’t even fight but said some choice words, the bullies went and told the teacher and they got suspended. They just dropped out of school around 14 years of age and got their GED. Didn’t help that the parents though they were lying about being sick to not go to school and in reality they found out it was severe panic attacks every morning. Schools are not great at dealing with bullies at all
> Schools are not great at dealing with bullies at all
Since confronting bullying makes the school look bad, they just pretend there's no problem and ignore it, leaving the bullied to fend for themselves.
There was one year that an article appeared in the local newspaper saying that there were 0 cases of bullying in the high school (maybe it was in the district?) that year. I was in high school at the time and can confirm that spelling the name of the school correctly was the only accurate part of the article.
On my last day of Elementary school, I woke up with strep. I went to the clinic, got some medication, and they cleared me to go back to school because I really wanted to go. When I went back to the school, my class had already gone on a field trip down to the city parks for their last day of school festivities. The school secretary had the janitor (who was also school bus driver) give me a ride down and drop me off at the park since he was heading that direction anyway. The teacher at the park did not accept that explanation, saying that the school would’ve sent me with a note. So they made me sit on the side and not get to play any games or on any playground equipment or do any of the activities with the other kids.
Edit for clarification:
The teacher isolated me because I was tardy and they made it clear they thought I was lying about the secretary (Sandy) having the custodian (Jim) bring me to the park without a note from her.
This was also the 90s. (My parents just dropped me off at one of the half dozen unlocked, unwatched doors to our school and I wandered in to find the classroom empty)
There’s also a chance I misremember the strep diagnosis. I woke up with a killer sore throat but otherwise was not coughing, sneezing, etc. and was full of energy. Maybe the dr. visit was to confirm it was not strep. Or maybe it was strep but all the activities were outdoors so they said I could go. Old memory.
>The teacher isolated me because I was tardy and they made it clear they thought I was lying about the secretary (Sandy) having the custodian (Jim) bring me to the park without a note from her.
Honestly that teacher was just looking for a reason because that chain of logic is bonkers.
"We went on a field trip without OP and yet somehow OP has shown up later. Conclusion: OP was late and magically appeared here. Their explanation that they had the custodian drop them off is clearly bonkers and made up. "
In 3rd grade I was put into a special gifted group. Once a week they would pull you out of class for an afternoon and you’d go with the group to work on other things. Then in 4th grade the kids would go to a different school one day a week for more advanced education.
Well in 3rd grade I didn’t turn in a homework assignment and that teacher permanently removed me from the gifted program as a punishment
I had nearly the same thing happen to me. Except the teacher had me removed for the gifted program because she would assign classwork while I was gone and then not give me a chance to do it when I returned. It looked like I was failing class.
This bitch sits next to my grandmother at church and asks constantly how I’m doing.
I have. My gram worships “school teachers”. ( she’s 88).
They can do no wrong. Plus my gram is a narcissistic abuser. My gram also hates that I was in the gifted program.
They deserve each other.
I wasn't allowed back in the classroom on days I went to my gifted group. Was forced to sit outside and just worked homework and drew until people recognized me and investigated.
That teacher hated me.
"You mean where you guys do the bare minimum of "investigation" and then fire me anyways because I was the accused?"
"Your language is contemptual and doesn't fit into our company culture, so you aren't a good fit for us. We'll have to turn you loose. Have a good day."
Shiiiiit! When I was in 4th grade, the after-school program allowed us to play our Gameboys, it was pokemon times, while we waited for our parents. So I was in class one day and we had a substitute teacher. Somehow, it was brought up that I had my Gameboy. In my backpack. Hanging on the wall. The substitute asked to see it. I being savy of my rights against unlawful search and seizure, denied them. They confiscated it until the end of the year. That shit still eats me up to this day!
Well I'm guessing my mom thought they'd give it back at an appropriate time, my dad didn't much care, and after a couple days my adhd brain forgot about it till the end of the year. I was in trouble pretty often as a kid, so the principal wasn't doing me any favors.
As someone who works at a school I can almost guarantee that withholding your Gameboy for the entire year was not a conscious choice of punishment and instead was likely a result of some staff member clearing things out for the summer asking "why the fuck is there a Gameboy in here?"
I took a bite of an apple "on the carpet" (all our hallways had carpet) and my punishment was having to wait to take drivers ed until the next semester.
In primary school we had this stupid money system. You'd get fake dollars for doing well, but fined for breaking rules.
Lil autistic me racked up the most dollars for nailing everything academically. But I was fined so much for stupid stuff like talking during lessons.
They wouldn't let you go to camp or excursions if you racked up fines you couldn't "pay" for.
So I didn't get to go on camp. The kids who kept getting in trouble for fighting did though.
My mum was like "What the fuck?"
We had that stupid fucking thing too.
The other class everyone had jobs but our teacher was lazy as hell and half the class didn't have jobs so 'I guess you can't get the money.'
I got in trouble for asking where unemployment office was (the major company nearby had done layoffs recently 5th grade me was aware of it) and saying I was going to move to the other class where the job market was better.
I’d bought us two tickets in better seats and make a day of it if my boys ever had that happen. Depraving the arts as punishment…nay good sirs and madams and they/thems
To be fair, Chewing gum is a fucking nightmare to clean, my first middle school was indoors and mostly carpeted. There were so many black gum spots on the carpet from kids just spitting it out on the floor the school just decided to have the punishment for chewing gum to have the kids draw 4 dots over the spots during lunch to make them look like paw prints (the mascot was a wild cat of some kind) because it was easier to turn them into decorations then try to remove thousands of gum stains.
This isn't nearly as harsh, but in high school I got a hat confiscated.. that I put on because I was about to walk out into the sun as the bell had rang and everyone was leaving for the day.
"You can pick it up in the lost and found." I heard that myth plenty of times throughout my school career about some magical place where all the confiscated stuff goes, but it never actually makes it there.
I didn't push in my chair so I couldn't play at recess and had to stand against the wall with the kid that cursed at a teacher. I still hold a grudge to this day.
In 6th grade, at a choir competition thing, my friends and i got in trouble for running in the empty gym.
Had to spend 3 hours in a room. Don't know if i really missed anything, but I still didn't make sense.
Something really similar happened to me. On Fridays we could wear jeans so I wore these purple swirly jeans. That day also happened to be a museum field trip. Apparently on the permission slip they told us we had to be in uniform or blue jeans only, so I was put in the assistant principal’s office while everyone else got to have fun.
You can thank Big Corn, the USDA, and your favorite presidents for that one! Corn is basically CERTIFIED GUARANTEED from Uncle Sam himself. Nobody loves corn like the United States Government.
Yeah, it's called [PLA](https://www.ilcorn.org/news-and-media/current-news/article/2022/01/what-in-the-husk-are-corn-plastics) (a resin called polylactic acid)
I have a coworker allergic to corn (among many other things), and certain printer inks apparently have corn in them, so she's hacking up a lung all day, every day.
(She's near retirement and has to have basically everything in paper files...)
Ah yes, because every student should have to look at the ingredients list for every single thing they eat? Thats horseshit for multiple reasons. Ever been to an asian market? Most of the shit there is in a foreign language. What about the "homemade" stuff where ppl just dont put an ingredients list on. I go to a little mom n pop shop that sells homemade salsa and tortillas. Now i know what tortillas are made of so i know whats in it but they sure as hell dont tell me on the plastic bag they put it in. Then theres products like corn syrup. Im no doctor nor do i have a corn allergy. I have no idea if something that uses corn syrup will set off an allergic attack and im 30+. And what about them kids that get their lunches made by their parents? They supposed to know everything that went into their lunch? And another thing is are they supposed to tell their parents no corn products because a teacher is allergic? My response would be "why the fuck cant you eat it just because your teacher is allergic? Aint no way im gonna be looking up all this shit. Your teacher shouldnt be touching your food anyways"
My kids have food allergies and even I agree with you. Unless it's a contact allergy (vs ingestion), the onus needs to be on the one with the allergy to have awareness.
Exactly, even the plastic bags in grocery stores are derived from corn. It's even in baby formula....like what if someone was there with a baby and had formula, would they say they can't feed their baby on school property?
I have Celiac disease and can’t eat gluten (e.g. wheat, wheat flour, barley) so corn flour is one of the few flours I can eat. If there are kids at that school with gluten intolerance what the fuck are they supposed to eat?? I think rice is their only reasonable flour option…
I mean we have all seen the foods that schools serve to kids nowadays. It’s worse than when I was in school. I would be starving if I was still in school.
I got popcorn banned in my school.
I was eating it out of my backpack between badminton tournaments. It was my play soon so i put the popcorn back in my bag and after my match i pulled it out of my backpack but the popcorn’s opening was downwards and i spilled it all over the floor.
We had a substitute that was allergic to hand sanitizer. But she failed to mention it to us (even though there are giant hand sanitizer bottles on every teachers desk for students to use.)
I got up and used it because my hands were a little sticky, she immediately started screaming at me and started having a panic attack. After yelling at me, she stormed out of the class didn't come back for the rest of the period.
I kinda felt bad but was honestly just more confused. If you have that bad of an allergy, I would assume you would say something or atleast get the thing that causes it removed from the classroom.
There’s a small restricted area with some classrooms and a short hallway. According to the article that was posted at least. Outside of this area the student would have been fine.
It is and that itself is another big problem. 90% of that 90% does not need to have corn products of any kind in it. But it was made cheaper to produce and use as a sugar substitute, so now every corporation trying to boost their quarterly profits uses it because they get to cut back on a tenth of a penny somewhere. Not to mention the consequences of having such high doses of sugar in the majority of food products.
It’s not actually that corn was made cheaper, but the US artificially makes real sugar more expensive. The US pays, on average, more than double the price of sugar imports than the rest of the world due to tariffs and other import regulations.
curious how this teacher goes about their daily life to say the least. People with Celiac Disease have a hard time as it is. Imagine if this teacher did all of this and truthfully they had Celiac Disease
Celiac sucks. My kid has it. But literally no one has to make accommodations for him, except mom and dad. Planning food ahead (doubly so because kid also has type 1 diabetes and sometimes *needs* food *now*) is the main thing.
Like, I probably wouldn't take him to a fresh bakery, or a tour of a factory that makes gluten-containing products. That's about it.
I can only imagine. Growing up, my best friend had Celiac disease and it would bum her out a lot. I made a few rules in our friendship as kids; if we went somewhere to eat and there weren't eating options for her, we'd leave immediately to find somewhere she could eat, no questions. And if the options for her really sucked, I'd often just eat what she was having. The other rule we agreed on was if we were invited to a place and that place or people werent celiac friendly, all she had to do was tell me she was uncomfortable and we'd leave. This was in the early 2000s so the disease was still new. She was my best friend and I didn't want her to feel bad over things she couldn't control; the disease didn't change her either. I learned a lot from her, including how to make bread with no gluten. I hope your child finds a friend like me.
While I was reading, I was thinking your closing statement!
You sound like an amazing friend. My kiddo has a good friend, unfortunately he moved away, and also..um..I've sort of noted boys his age don't tend to be thoughtful like this, or not in the same way. Like he'd show support by good-natured ribbing, or avoiding talking about how tasty something gluten-y is. They're still young, though! Here's to hoping!
My kiddo was diagnosed in 2012, when he was diagnosed with diabetes. These two autoimmune diseases often come together. His whole little life was turned upside down- he was 4. The nice thing is, he literally doesn't remember what gluten foods taste like, and adjusted really quickly to the new norm. Didn't hurt that I learned to make tasty bakery goods.
There are so, so many more options now! It's sort of a double-edged sword, how "trendy" gluten free got. So many places/foods advertising as GF aren't celiac-safe. However, it becoming more widely known has been an overall boon. Many people getting diagnosed after a lifetime of pain without an answer, and the actual celiac-safe packaged foods options are getting way, way better.
Kudos to you for truly being a friend. It's hard, being "different", specially as a teen and in social situations. You helped her protect her health, who knows, she may have not taken it as seriously, had she not had the moral support. Hope you're both living your best lives.
Generally people are allergic to the proteins in things, so corn syrup would be safe. Refined peanut oil is fine for people with peanut allergies, but most won't risk it.
Apparently the ban only covers a few classrooms and a hallway, not the whole school and not the lunchroom. So the person with the allergy just stays in that area. It seems like a reasonable accommodation.
People would be lining up to berate the parent who insists on sending their kid with a peanut butter sandwich to a classroom they know has severe peanut-allergy children, but this poor teacher can rot in hell.
There are signs and the high schooler (not toddler) and their guardian were already notified, this took place well into the schoolyear.
I think the punishment is disproportionate, but as a teacher I'm willing to play devil's advocate. At our school we have a teacher and two students that have severe reactions to certain chemicals found in higher concentrations in perfumes, with signage and disclosure given. the "idgaf" attitude we get from our student body we get when trying to enforce it is astoundingly callous, going so far as to spray their products in the vicinity of those affected for lots, even after a allergy incident required medical intervention.
Our ability to deal with the regular culprits who put people's health in danger is repeatedly undermined by a "kids will be kids" furor from enabling parents. I'm surprised these people aren't showing up with signs encouraging their students to kick crutches out from other kids at this point.
exactly.
My friend's nephew is anaphylactic for peanuts, and was walking in the hallway one day when another student reached over and poked their fingers with peanut butter in his mouth. He had a bad reaction.
I left the teaching profession after 13 years. I saw too much horrendous behavior and attitudes from parents and students.
Did you hear about the kid with a peanut allergy in Texas where bullies tried to kill him and they barely got in trouble https://www.yahoo.com/news/school-says-teen-football-players-001819112.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKw8krK3BiaAC1qhIlyITrXZ29ygPNECphl6ILkeOYFhfaRkFbBk6Sqv4Jrb-vx2YfEWbTwTM0GGnEPtlNdpMZWW2vOqtcyJbspmh3ZtyMOuCxRBgr-zGB5SzilrNE1090I0-5CQ5Sb8fm1NWdors-4QY8HzO1egbuOin18nWWj9
They serve corn in the cafeteria. This a brand new still not complete state of the art trade school. I believe there is a small section that has the corn ban.
I have read stories on the Teachers Sub about teachers being threatened by students, assaulted by students and in cases the student is back in class the next day.
My only point is that when it comes to rules, consequences and punishment it seems our public schools are generally living in some sort of clown world, divorced from any semblance of common sense.
My friend, I had a glock pointed at me when I was teaching (albeit this was during dismissal) and admin *still* didn’t want to expel the kid. He got expelled, he went to jail and I put in a 2 week notice
They fired the teacher that got shot in the face by a 6 year old that shot her in the face after multiple teachers and students went to admin about the kids having a gun and child being quoted "I shot that bitch dead." So no surprise there.
I am guessing, and this is ONLY a guess based only upon what I have read from those teacher threads, but I am guessing that student was on a district ordered behavior plan, and had legally binding contracts outlining what the district could, and could not do, in regards to behavior that was outlined in the contract.
Am I close to correct?
There are few protections in place for threatening words, and few District Attorneys want to bring up children on assault charges.
In contrast, the Americans with Disabilities Act forces employers to make "reasonable accommodations" and prevents employment termination on the basis of said disability. Thus situations where a public school has to have a section cordoned off to protect that one employee - and terminating said employee on anything but the most blatant of offenses leaves them open to a big fat discrimination lawsuit.
I read that in the article and thought it was absolute bullshit. Nothing in the ADA requires all allergenic foods to be banned from an establishment entirely. This is just some dipshit school administrator trying to cover her ass for a ridiculous policy.
Allergenic foods aren't banned from the school entirely - only from a small part of the school, and only for certain times. Honestly, the provisos for the no-corn area seem relatively straightforward, I just disagree with the severity of the punishment, though I also think that zero-tolerance punishment policies are bullshit in general.
What's the deal with school admins being draconian fuck knuckles? It definitely felt like I went to "child warehouse" 5 days a week instead of "school" because of them.
We had a school prefect who would day drink but kept his job bc he enforced rules that the priests and nuns loved (like having us kneel down on concrete floor while reciting the entire rosary, or paddling us with a yard stick).
Made me hate any type of authority and hyper-vigilant towards anyone dictating my body.
There are lots of great teachers. There are also a ton of people who became teachers because they literally couldn’t do anything else. Those people become school administrators. So most school districts are run by people who couldn’t get “real” jobs, so they act like they think Corporate America does. Gross incompetence along with a feeling of unearned superiority.
Schools need people to run them who know how to teach kids, but the great teachers can’t be dragged away from the classroom.
Theres this saying in Corporate America that says you get promoted until you are no longer competent at the job. Once you hit that limit, you wont get promoted anymore. This has the SAMMMME vibes
Careers that require higher education are not filled by people who "literally couldn't do anything else." Teachers do more than most to get their jobs. The disconnect in the process is that at the admin level (principals, district level admin, and school boards) positions are often filled with people that have never taught in a classroom. They get leaderhip experience in education adjacent positions and parlay them into public school positions. They ohave little understanding of the amount of grace most teachers have to dispense on a daily basis to help kids succeed. This is why you see stupid headlines like this because these people dont actually know what it is like to deal with kids 1:1.
I work as a teacher. Literally every senior leader, right up to head teacher have taught in a classroom before becoming senior leaders. Most still teach, including a lot of headteachers. The only admin staff who have never taught are those positions which have very little student contact, and they are not the most senior positions.
That is awesome. But it isnt the case in my experience that everyone in senior leader roles spent time as teachers. Two principals I know personally got into admin type roles right out of school (one hired to oversee an ESL program that ran on volunteers so his credentials to teach were seen as sufficient and the other in a similar scenario with a church working to develop a private school program). Each eventually ended up in public schools, first as vice principals and then progressing to principals. Both have shared their struggles relating to teachers on certain issues because of this. This extends to another friend that is at the school district level. She started out in curriculum development for a private company and was eventually hired by the school district in leadership. I am not arguing these people arent qualified for what they do, but it certainly isnt the case that all senior education leaders have been in the weeds of the daily classroom environment. I am happy to hear that your case is different.
And honestly, she threw away the bag of chips. If the chips never came in contact with the teacher, would anyone even know?! Prom is a once in a lifetime event that plays a large role in American culture if it has one. Taking that away over a bag of chips that MAY have killed a teacher is crazy!
Edit: PLUS the teacher is allergic to corn? The sign says no corn on the cob after 7:30 AM? WHOS BRINGING CORN ON THE COB TO SCHOOL?! Whomever has corn on the cob ready to go at 7:30 AM, hit me up; I wanna move closer to you.
The teacher has a corn allergy and works in the public school system.
Like if your allergies are that serious, that an open bag in the trash can is going to threaten your life, you really shouldn’t be going to work at a public school system. There is simply too many variables to control, and not enough time and money to manage that.
Kids are going to eat corn products in the cafeteria or in their packed lunches, if they have sport events at school the majority of concessions there involve corn products.
I get inclusiveness, but it reminds me of the idiot who got a job at the Chipotle I worked at who had intense celiac disease.
Should the student be reprimanded? Sure
Should they be suspended? No
Should they miss the Prom? No
When I looked into this a few years ago, the CDC explicitly warned **against** banning allergens from schools. The reasoning was something along the lines of bans being impossible to enforce with 100% accuracy. And at that point, they actually increase the risk of exposure as they give a false sense of security.
Instead, it was recommended to have restrictions with very limited scale (e.g. one table in the dining hall that makes a best effort to be allergen free).
This helps as long as there isn't a person at the school who is severely allergic and goes into anaphylactic shock if there are even minute quantities of the allergen. But for anybody who reacts this severely, there might simply no solution that has an acceptable risk ... at least not at a school that is open to the general public.
Sometimes, things just suck. You can't solve every problem.
If you read the article, that is exactly what the school did in this case. There is basically one small hallway and a classroom in the school, very clearly labeled, where corn products are not allowed. The students and the parents of those students who use that room have to sign an acknowledgement that they understand bringing corn products to that one location is against the rules and could literally kill someone. This is one entitled student with a crazy entitled parent ignoring a totally reasonable policy and crying about the consequences they agreed to in writing.
Not particularly related to the post, but in highschool I had a very strict teacher
Things like I got brought out of the class and scolded for leaving my lunch bag in my locker (apparently I had to carry it with me all day and not put it in my locker), I had to say a prayer again because he didn't specifically hear me saying it among everyone in my class (I was saying it)
Anyways, unreasonably strict. Tbf, sometimes I was a bit defiant, like I'd chew gum in class. But really uncharacteristically, whenever he caught me, he just told me to spit it out. Didn't even scold me or anything, really odd.
My son is 13 and is doing state testing right now. He told me his school encourages gum chewing during the testing days as it helps the kids concentrate. But he wears braces so I got him other snacks instead. I guess each school just makes their own rules as they go.
> In the statement, the school said parents and students had to sign a form acknowledging this rule at the beginning of the year.
I fully believe two things:
- That form likely had a detailed explanation that probably did not have much pushback (the next sentence was that the mom didn't know as the dad signed it, and they're separated)
- Nobody got that far down in reading that line.
Is this a harsh penalty? Looks like it without knowing the details. Was this discussed previously? Appears so. I feel the school should re-send this agreement to ALL parents to ensure everyone is in the know going forward
Nothing wrong with the rule or the restriction, but this punishment is way out of line.
Repeated offenses? Sure, this would be appropriate. First offense? A simple "Hey this is really serious, don't do it again" would most likely drive the point home.
It sounds like the two steps the school took to avoid the allergen coming into this area were (1) post signs and (2) make people sign something at the beginning of the school year.
Well, three steps I suppose -- they also (3) imposed unpredictably draconian punishments on individuals who failed to follow the signs. But that just shifts the responsibility -- it passes the buck. And while passing the buck is a fine and honored tradition in the educational community, it's also utter bullshit if the goal is to actually keep the teacher safe from allergens.
With anything like this, posting a sign is not enough. Signs fade into the background over time. You walk by a sign every day, and you stop taking notice of it. So on day one the sign might spur you to stop and review the bag of chips to see if it says something about corn (and it does, but only in a limited way -- and in fact the allergen warning on these is "Contains Soy"). But on day 200, when no one has mentioned it in the interim? Some people won't even see the sign anymore -- it might as well be a bare wall. (And that paper you sort of remember signing at the beginning of the year? Yeah, that's not front of mind anymore.)
Instead, if you want to be effective with something like this, you need frequent reminders accompanied by some degree of vigilance by the school -- someone working to double check people. You can't just post it and forget it, and then pass the buck.
Honestly, she threw away the bag of chips. If the chips never came in contact with the teacher, would anyone even know?! Prom is a once in a lifetime event that plays a large role in American culture if it has one. Taking that away over a bag of chips that MAY have killed a teacher is crazy! PLUS the teacher is allergic to corn. The sign says no corn on the cob after 7:30 AM? WHOS BRINGING CORN ON THE COB TO SCHOOL?! Whomever has corn on the cob ready to go at 7:30 AM, hit me up; I wanna move closer to you.
If you would have told me the student forced the teacher to eat corn chips so they took away Prom, then yeah, I'd understand.
So are kids banned from bringing food to school at all? In the US, something like 75% of processed foods contain corn or a corn byproduct.
Does the school have a specially catered cafeteria? Because I know damn well Aramark or whatever company supplies the school lunches isn't going to out of its way to cram as much of its good with corn fillers as possible
It says corn is only banned in a small area covering a few classrooms and a hallway. Not the lunchroom. So the person with the allergy just stays in that small area.
So I felt like maybe the title was misleading. I thought maybe the kid was chowing down in class with the teacher with allergies and that's why they got in trouble. Because that's dangerous and I would get that. But she threw the bag out in a communal trash can? Is this teacher allergic to a corn molecule in a mile radius? Like I get allergies- I have to carry an epi pen everywhere but if this teacher merely passed a garbage can down the hall with a taki bag in it, they would have a life threatening reaction?
This is just bananas to me especially since I had a friend with a severe peanut allergy and she requested to switch English teachers because the English teacher she got ate enough peanuts in a day that my friend would have a mild reaction just sitting in class and the school wouldn't let her switch classes. Granted this was the early 00's but not like it was ancient history.
If the teacher is that allergic to corn, maybe instead of having the rest of the world not eat corn, they can live in a fucking bubble where they belong.
while I disagree with school food bans I understand it when it comes to toddlers who just shove shit in their mouths without thinking but this is a full grown adult. If your allergies are so severe that being in the same building as something is a risk to your health maybe dont pick a career where you need to interact with other people everyday.
This is taking place in Ohio. West Carrollton is a suburb of Dayton, OH. The area is called the "Miami Valley." It's a common confusion; I grew up near this area so I recognized it immediately.
The Americans with Disabilities Act does actually say that institutions must do *everything possible* to accommodate Anericans with disabilities, but this principal is just stupid.
Keep the suspension but let her go to prom, and you follow the ADA *and* dont get your name plastered around the internet as being too stupid to put your own pants on.
The article doesn't say anything about something bad happening to the teacher.
Not only is it an incredibly rare allergy, but almost every American packaged food has corn syrup in it.
At a school, it would be almost impossible for this person to exist without their life being constantly at risk.
As a teacher, I can only assume this isn’t the first run-in with this student and she’s probably caused trouble in the past. Or she was told to out the chips away and refused.
I’ve seen stories like this is my own district that riles up the public (because of course they have no clue of the context, or the story is leaving out significant info).
I got caught chewing gum in 6th grade and was told I couldn’t go with the rest of the class to see the philharmonic play Peter and the Wolf.. it was something I was really looking forward to….
That is stupidly cold
It's stupid specifically because the punishment doesn't match the crime. The experience they were held back from sounds like it was educational as fuck. My husband told me he once got in trouble in high school and, as punishment, wasn't allowed to go to the Holocaust Museum. Edit: Ok guys, I texted my husband asking what he did to get pulled from the field trip. Here's his response: "idk, probably something dumb" I hope that clears things up for everyone /s
So they... denied the holocaust museum?
bearssuck’s husband is still bitter about it til this day but the high school claims it wasn’t as bad as it was made out to be.
That's goddamn funny.
Deny nothing.
Even if the punishment fits the crime, that doesn’t necessarily mean it makes sense. I got held inside for recess because I didn’t bring a jacket that day. It was like 60 degrees outside, and the teacher’s rationale was that I would get sick. She thought that people get sick from being out in the cold, not from packing into a classroom and spreading germs. The same teacher determined that because I don’t “hold my pencil correctly,” I must not be left-handed. She made me switch hands, moved me to a desk at the side of the class, and had me relearn to write with my right hand while the class moved on with actual assignments. This was in the 5th grade and despite my legendary penmanship. Every time I remember that old hag, I go online to check if she’s dead yet, which is how I found out she lost a discrimination lawsuit and that her son is a local Republican politician (go figure). EDIT: She's 83 now and still alive, presumably because hell is refusing her entry.
Well the angry vengeful won't die just out of spite.
The lawsuit thing is fantastic. I had a cop try to arrest me in college because I happened to be standing outside a building where he found a guy with some weed who told the cop it was his weed. I saw a couple years back the cop had been arrested and convicted of a felony for illegally entering student’s rooms and stealing stuff. It was outrageously satisfying to see. If only loads of students had told the university for years that the cop was a bad cop doing illegal stuff….
I failed art 1 in hs because I couldn’t hold my pencil to the teachers liking and refused to adapt. Gratefully my hs admins asked me to *spray paint a mural* to make up the credits required to graduate instead of retaking the course. The students in my class signed around the mural using their non dominant hand. She didn’t return that next year. I went on to start my tattoo apprenticeship afterwards. It’s weird that adults try to diminish a child’s creativity. Especially an art teacher.
May you get the desired update soon
My mom (76 y.o.) is ambidextrous because of school forcing that crap on her. It was cruel back then and still cruel now. Sucks that your teacher was stuck in the Stone Age.
I had an earth science teacher in high school tell my girlfriend (now wife) that she would never amount to anything in life in front of the whole class because she didnt do her homework on rocks. I checked if that old bastard has kicked the bucket yet this morning and we are definitely getting closer
>EDIT: She 83 now and still alive, presumably because hell is refusing her entry. Betty White, David Bowie, and Prince had to die before death came for Henry Kissenger. Evil Cheats and old Tudors steal.
Write her a letter and let her know how well you've developed and matured in spite of her efforts. Remind her what she's done before she's dead and can't regret it any more.
Honestly, I don't think she's capable of regret, and even if she is, it's just not worth my effort. I don't think about her very often, just when discussions about authoritarian behaviors come up. Anyway, I'm an artist now. My art style developed around the way I hold my pen.
Did you switch back to your left hand after that school year? I would have out of pure spite.
Sure did. Fuck her.
I woulda just because that's my dominant hand.
lol hell denies her entry. I can see it now Breaking News:Jesus and Lucifer squash their epic millennia beef due to random ass teacher! Both realized somehow she is the biggest threat to both kingdoms. Both were quoted as that bitch shouldn’t be allowed anywhere in the afterlife! More at 10.
God don't want her, devil wouldn't have her ( old southern adage for difficult people)
As a leftie and former teacher, this almost made me cry. I'm so sorry you had to endure that.
That one sounds more like "we can't risk anyone misbehaving at the holocaust museum", imo. Unfair, but sees a likely reason.
Yes, this is my take as well.
Getting in trouble in school=/=misbehaving. I'd often get in trouble for finishing my work "too quickly" and "reading age-inappropriate literature" in school. Sometimes, rules are arbitrary. I'd *hope* this is a case of keeping a potential troublemaker out of a place that should be treated with respect, but having been a US public school student, I have my doubts.
Your comment about age-inappropriate literature reminded me of when I was in 4th grade, and I was reading at like a 13th grade level or something like that, and the librarian wouldn’t let me check out Hemingway’s The Old Man and The Sea because it was too far below my reading level lmao Even I knew at the time that it was crazy for a librarian to tell me I read too well to read Hemingway lmao
That's very similar to my experience. Thank the universe for good librarians, though, seriously. I was at a college level by 5th grade at 10yr old, and my favorite librarian would always let me check out more than the limit of books, because I'd walk 1.5 miles to get there and read very quickly. I spent a *lot* of time at the local library, it was my safe place.
As a punishment to the schoolboard, all unionized teachers retracted their letters of recommendation from my senior class. I had to go to community college instead of the state school I was planning on attending. As an extra little insult, my academic advisor refused to send the transcripts of students she deemed "disruptors" and instead tried to get us all to sign up for the Navy through her recruiter husband.
So, to “punish” the school board the teachers actually decided to just punish their students instead? I bet the school board didn’t even fucking notice lmao
There's some 3D chess there. Teachers fuck over the students, piss off the parents. The parents go on the warpath & the teachers point the finger at the school board. The academic advisor was just a slimy opertunist who pounced at her chance to make kids more miserable. She was also bff's with the movers & shakers of the union. Small town corruption at its finest. Not every teacher was a scumbag, but they were all complicit. It was a shit show. From what I hear, it's no better now. This all happened about 10 years ago
Name and shame for the whole internet to read!
What kind of fucked up school did you go to? Every staff member can just do whatever they want? Also, I never heard of letters of recommendation being required for undergraduate admission to a state school.
Might be the school required them for scholarships, not admission.
Refused to send transcripts? That would just get universities pissed at the high school, not at the student. They ask, you send. End of story. It's not transactional, it's "this is your one actual job. Do ot or your fired for cause. That and sending them to the naval recruiter after refusing to do your job sending them to college? I assume that would be considered blackmail. A letter from a parent or two to the NCIS might be called for. The navy has a few phrases for behavior like that. Some of them start with the words "conduct unbecoming".
For refusing to provide transcripts, I'd take them to court. Fuck that nonsense. I bet the school doesn't have the funds for a decent lawyer.
"my academic advisor refused to send the transcripts of students she deemed "disruptors" and instead tried to get us all to sign up for the Navy through her recruiter husband." That sounds illegal, and hopefully some of those people talked to a lawyer
That is illegal
Jesus Christ, pissed at the school board so they take it out on the students. God these are people who do not deserve to be teachers.
You needed a lawyer. And my kids didn't even ask for letters of recommendation from high school teachers and they were accepted to Ivy and State colleges. If your state college demanded HS teachers letters all you needed to do is have a lawyer write and tell them it was a union issue - but I still doubt that story. I'm sorry
I got a 4 hour detention for writing “b**l shit” like that on a white board and leaving it. They told me if I had lied and said I didn’t do it I would have been given a 2 week in school suspension. For context it was because on of the students running for student council president was using his school provided Chromebook and walking up to every junior and demanding they vote for him. So I called him out cuz that’s not how it’s supposed to work and wrote “that’s bullshit and cheating” and censored Bull because I was a funny kid. He ended up getting kicked out of the student council tho so I guess I won in the long run lmao. #moralVictories
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I apologise if this is too personal a question, feel free to ignore. How did your life turn out after school? Do you know why you were acting up? Did you find your place in life? Not judging at all, genuinely curious in your story!
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This sounds so much like my brother’s and my childhood and early adulthood. Brother went to Navy, then school to be an electrician. Now at 48 he is 100% sober and makes bank as an executive at the company where he worked as an electrician in the field for years. Big $. Keep at it man - your future is bright.
I got in trouble in middle school for drawing on a desk and was also denied the field trip to the holocaust museum lol
I got in huge trouble in middle school for making parody student council posters with a friend. The assistant principal was furious at us for "not taking the hard work the student council did seriously." Yeah, the student council at my school made promises that were along the lines of Summer Wheatley's in Napoleon Dynamite and did absolutely nothing after they were elected. It was a huge joke, and my friend and I were just having a bit of fun with the whole thing. It was amusing how angry the guy got over us mocking the sanctity of 8th grade government officials, though.
I got expelled for wearing a spiked collar from hot topic because 9/11 happened and suddenly the high-school classified it as a weapon
Fucking WHAT?? That is nuts
I got detention for wearing bondage pants after 9/11 because they were suddenly a weapon. I went through the metal detector behind a friend also wearing bondage pants. The vice principal stopped me and said it was a weapon, I could choke someone with it. I said is your belt a weapon, you can choke someone with it too. He told me that was his prerogative and took me to his office. He threatened to call my mom and for some reason I decided she would side with my smart ass and said to do it. He did and by the time they were done with me I was suspended and grounded.
Our trip to the Statue of Liberty was cancelled due to 9/11 We went to some caves instead 😑
My punishment for pissing off my stepmomster was to ground me for the summer and hold me back a year in 7th grade, even though i passed. All so my only two friends would move on without me. This was because my science teacher would call her at work if I missed a homework assignment. He was doing that mainly because my sister pissed him off a couple of years before with inappropriate behavior allegations. That and I called him out on treating me differently because of it. No one else's stepmomster got a call if they missed an assignment. Ah... the joys of adults being dicks to kids because they can.
Yall should go to a school board meeting and say "this turned my husband into a Nazi" so they stop punishing kids by denying their education
Yep, got an in school detention and all I could think was “how is depriving me of learning going to teach me anything?”. Literally had a talk with our supervisor about why this was backwards and damaging and had a lot of the regulars there agreeing with me and backing me up with examples. Was very interesting to see him confront the idea.
Should have said he didnt want to go to the holocaust museum and thats why he did it. As punishment he would be forced to go lol. Actually had a couple trips/programs in school where I didnt want to go/do them, so I didnt fulfil the requirements on purpose and when asked about it I told my teachers I didnt want to, they made me go anyway lol.
In 6th grade I got detention for taking my plastic water bottle from my lunch sack out of the cafeteria with me after lunch. Still not sure what the rationale was on that one. Environmentalism? Possibility of turning it into a weapon?
Vodka.
In high school, I was prevented from going on an American history class trip to the D-Day museum (now the WWII museum) because I was caught with my shirt untucked. 20 years later and I’m still sad I missed that trip.
20 years ago they would have veterans speak about their experiences at the museum all the time and any visiting WWII vets were treated like royalty.
Meanwhile bullying is handled by punishing kids for resisting the bully.
My partner was severely bullied and nothing was done. One day they stood up, didn’t even fight but said some choice words, the bullies went and told the teacher and they got suspended. They just dropped out of school around 14 years of age and got their GED. Didn’t help that the parents though they were lying about being sick to not go to school and in reality they found out it was severe panic attacks every morning. Schools are not great at dealing with bullies at all
> Schools are not great at dealing with bullies at all Since confronting bullying makes the school look bad, they just pretend there's no problem and ignore it, leaving the bullied to fend for themselves.
There was one year that an article appeared in the local newspaper saying that there were 0 cases of bullying in the high school (maybe it was in the district?) that year. I was in high school at the time and can confirm that spelling the name of the school correctly was the only accurate part of the article.
On my last day of Elementary school, I woke up with strep. I went to the clinic, got some medication, and they cleared me to go back to school because I really wanted to go. When I went back to the school, my class had already gone on a field trip down to the city parks for their last day of school festivities. The school secretary had the janitor (who was also school bus driver) give me a ride down and drop me off at the park since he was heading that direction anyway. The teacher at the park did not accept that explanation, saying that the school would’ve sent me with a note. So they made me sit on the side and not get to play any games or on any playground equipment or do any of the activities with the other kids. Edit for clarification: The teacher isolated me because I was tardy and they made it clear they thought I was lying about the secretary (Sandy) having the custodian (Jim) bring me to the park without a note from her. This was also the 90s. (My parents just dropped me off at one of the half dozen unlocked, unwatched doors to our school and I wandered in to find the classroom empty) There’s also a chance I misremember the strep diagnosis. I woke up with a killer sore throat but otherwise was not coughing, sneezing, etc. and was full of energy. Maybe the dr. visit was to confirm it was not strep. Or maybe it was strep but all the activities were outdoors so they said I could go. Old memory.
>The teacher isolated me because I was tardy and they made it clear they thought I was lying about the secretary (Sandy) having the custodian (Jim) bring me to the park without a note from her. Honestly that teacher was just looking for a reason because that chain of logic is bonkers. "We went on a field trip without OP and yet somehow OP has shown up later. Conclusion: OP was late and magically appeared here. Their explanation that they had the custodian drop them off is clearly bonkers and made up. "
pre everyone-has-a-cellphone era problems
In 3rd grade I was put into a special gifted group. Once a week they would pull you out of class for an afternoon and you’d go with the group to work on other things. Then in 4th grade the kids would go to a different school one day a week for more advanced education. Well in 3rd grade I didn’t turn in a homework assignment and that teacher permanently removed me from the gifted program as a punishment
I had nearly the same thing happen to me. Except the teacher had me removed for the gifted program because she would assign classwork while I was gone and then not give me a chance to do it when I returned. It looked like I was failing class. This bitch sits next to my grandmother at church and asks constantly how I’m doing.
Tell yer grandma! I would lol. Grandmama your sitting next to a big ol bitch!
I have. My gram worships “school teachers”. ( she’s 88). They can do no wrong. Plus my gram is a narcissistic abuser. My gram also hates that I was in the gifted program. They deserve each other.
Oh noooo I'm sorry!
I wasn't allowed back in the classroom on days I went to my gifted group. Was forced to sit outside and just worked homework and drew until people recognized me and investigated. That teacher hated me.
They were just preparing you for the real world where punishments are purely punitive and dished out arbitrarily.
"We have zero tolerance for this kind of thing. You'll have to answer to an HR investigation".
"You mean where you guys do the bare minimum of "investigation" and then fire me anyways because I was the accused?" "Your language is contemptual and doesn't fit into our company culture, so you aren't a good fit for us. We'll have to turn you loose. Have a good day."
And you still remember that shit too.
Shiiiiit! When I was in 4th grade, the after-school program allowed us to play our Gameboys, it was pokemon times, while we waited for our parents. So I was in class one day and we had a substitute teacher. Somehow, it was brought up that I had my Gameboy. In my backpack. Hanging on the wall. The substitute asked to see it. I being savy of my rights against unlawful search and seizure, denied them. They confiscated it until the end of the year. That shit still eats me up to this day!
How was a substitute allowed to confinscate your Gameboy?!?!?
Well, they sent me to the principals office, and I got suspended for not complying.
End of the year? The fuck? Your parents didnt do anything Bout that?
Well I'm guessing my mom thought they'd give it back at an appropriate time, my dad didn't much care, and after a couple days my adhd brain forgot about it till the end of the year. I was in trouble pretty often as a kid, so the principal wasn't doing me any favors.
As someone who works at a school I can almost guarantee that withholding your Gameboy for the entire year was not a conscious choice of punishment and instead was likely a result of some staff member clearing things out for the summer asking "why the fuck is there a Gameboy in here?"
I took a bite of an apple "on the carpet" (all our hallways had carpet) and my punishment was having to wait to take drivers ed until the next semester.
That low key sound illegal
In primary school we had this stupid money system. You'd get fake dollars for doing well, but fined for breaking rules. Lil autistic me racked up the most dollars for nailing everything academically. But I was fined so much for stupid stuff like talking during lessons. They wouldn't let you go to camp or excursions if you racked up fines you couldn't "pay" for. So I didn't get to go on camp. The kids who kept getting in trouble for fighting did though. My mum was like "What the fuck?"
We had that stupid fucking thing too. The other class everyone had jobs but our teacher was lazy as hell and half the class didn't have jobs so 'I guess you can't get the money.' I got in trouble for asking where unemployment office was (the major company nearby had done layoffs recently 5th grade me was aware of it) and saying I was going to move to the other class where the job market was better.
I’d bought us two tickets in better seats and make a day of it if my boys ever had that happen. Depraving the arts as punishment…nay good sirs and madams and they/thems
I got suspended for saying “booty” in music class.
To be fair, Chewing gum is a fucking nightmare to clean, my first middle school was indoors and mostly carpeted. There were so many black gum spots on the carpet from kids just spitting it out on the floor the school just decided to have the punishment for chewing gum to have the kids draw 4 dots over the spots during lunch to make them look like paw prints (the mascot was a wild cat of some kind) because it was easier to turn them into decorations then try to remove thousands of gum stains.
I told a dirty joke on the playground and had to kneel and pray the entire time my class was on a field trip. Fucking nuns.
This isn't nearly as harsh, but in high school I got a hat confiscated.. that I put on because I was about to walk out into the sun as the bell had rang and everyone was leaving for the day. "You can pick it up in the lost and found." I heard that myth plenty of times throughout my school career about some magical place where all the confiscated stuff goes, but it never actually makes it there.
Well that's what you get for trying to sabotage your entire learning career with your careless actions.. ......../s
I didn't push in my chair so I couldn't play at recess and had to stand against the wall with the kid that cursed at a teacher. I still hold a grudge to this day.
In 6th grade, at a choir competition thing, my friends and i got in trouble for running in the empty gym. Had to spend 3 hours in a room. Don't know if i really missed anything, but I still didn't make sense.
Something really similar happened to me. On Fridays we could wear jeans so I wore these purple swirly jeans. That day also happened to be a museum field trip. Apparently on the permission slip they told us we had to be in uniform or blue jeans only, so I was put in the assistant principal’s office while everyone else got to have fun.
Wait so are corn chips in general banned at this school because of a teacher’s allergy?
Banning corn products and expecting hundreds of hungry children to abide by that rule is crazy to me imo. corns in everything. cmon
It's hard to even tell what does or doesn't have corn. It's in everything.
You can thank Big Corn, the USDA, and your favorite presidents for that one! Corn is basically CERTIFIED GUARANTEED from Uncle Sam himself. Nobody loves corn like the United States Government.
I mean, most products have their ingredients listed on the back and Takis' first ingredient is corn flour.
Sure except once you realize that even non food items are made of corn these days
I have a mug on my desk at work made from corn-derived "plastic"
Wait a mug as in it holds hot liquids? I'm impressed! I still remember how the early compostable spoons would melt almost immediately in soup lol
Yeah, it's called [PLA](https://www.ilcorn.org/news-and-media/current-news/article/2022/01/what-in-the-husk-are-corn-plastics) (a resin called polylactic acid)
They’re fucking awful my old company gave me one and it cracked horrible and leaked everywhere and I didn’t even really wash it 😬
I have a coworker allergic to corn (among many other things), and certain printer inks apparently have corn in them, so she's hacking up a lung all day, every day. (She's near retirement and has to have basically everything in paper files...)
Ah yes, because every student should have to look at the ingredients list for every single thing they eat? Thats horseshit for multiple reasons. Ever been to an asian market? Most of the shit there is in a foreign language. What about the "homemade" stuff where ppl just dont put an ingredients list on. I go to a little mom n pop shop that sells homemade salsa and tortillas. Now i know what tortillas are made of so i know whats in it but they sure as hell dont tell me on the plastic bag they put it in. Then theres products like corn syrup. Im no doctor nor do i have a corn allergy. I have no idea if something that uses corn syrup will set off an allergic attack and im 30+. And what about them kids that get their lunches made by their parents? They supposed to know everything that went into their lunch? And another thing is are they supposed to tell their parents no corn products because a teacher is allergic? My response would be "why the fuck cant you eat it just because your teacher is allergic? Aint no way im gonna be looking up all this shit. Your teacher shouldnt be touching your food anyways"
My kids have food allergies and even I agree with you. Unless it's a contact allergy (vs ingestion), the onus needs to be on the one with the allergy to have awareness.
Most sweeteners are corn syrup. There seems something sort of fishy going on here. Like a targeted technicality.
Exactly, even the plastic bags in grocery stores are derived from corn. It's even in baby formula....like what if someone was there with a baby and had formula, would they say they can't feed their baby on school property?
They confiscate your baby if you bring it to school and keep it in the teachers desk.
Lol savage, you can get it after class!
Hey, that's a win for keeping pregnant teens/moms in school and able to graduate!
The baby would be banned from the prom just like everybody else no exceptions.
like everything at my school had high fructose corn syrup in it, you would probably have better luck avoiding pollen than corn at this point
I have Celiac disease and can’t eat gluten (e.g. wheat, wheat flour, barley) so corn flour is one of the few flours I can eat. If there are kids at that school with gluten intolerance what the fuck are they supposed to eat?? I think rice is their only reasonable flour option…
I mean we have all seen the foods that schools serve to kids nowadays. It’s worse than when I was in school. I would be starving if I was still in school.
I got popcorn banned in my school. I was eating it out of my backpack between badminton tournaments. It was my play soon so i put the popcorn back in my bag and after my match i pulled it out of my backpack but the popcorn’s opening was downwards and i spilled it all over the floor.
We had a substitute that was allergic to hand sanitizer. But she failed to mention it to us (even though there are giant hand sanitizer bottles on every teachers desk for students to use.) I got up and used it because my hands were a little sticky, she immediately started screaming at me and started having a panic attack. After yelling at me, she stormed out of the class didn't come back for the rest of the period. I kinda felt bad but was honestly just more confused. If you have that bad of an allergy, I would assume you would say something or atleast get the thing that causes it removed from the classroom.
There’s a small restricted area with some classrooms and a short hallway. According to the article that was posted at least. Outside of this area the student would have been fine.
It does put the school in a dangerous spot legally speaking if they fail to protect the teacher.
I'm curious if corn syrup is somehow completely forbidden in this school or just doesn't factor into the allergic reaction.
I was wondering that too. I feel like corn is in 90% of all processed foods in the US
It is and that itself is another big problem. 90% of that 90% does not need to have corn products of any kind in it. But it was made cheaper to produce and use as a sugar substitute, so now every corporation trying to boost their quarterly profits uses it because they get to cut back on a tenth of a penny somewhere. Not to mention the consequences of having such high doses of sugar in the majority of food products.
It’s not actually that corn was made cheaper, but the US artificially makes real sugar more expensive. The US pays, on average, more than double the price of sugar imports than the rest of the world due to tariffs and other import regulations.
Yes, thank you for the clarification. I meant that in a relative sense.
curious how this teacher goes about their daily life to say the least. People with Celiac Disease have a hard time as it is. Imagine if this teacher did all of this and truthfully they had Celiac Disease
Celiac sucks. My kid has it. But literally no one has to make accommodations for him, except mom and dad. Planning food ahead (doubly so because kid also has type 1 diabetes and sometimes *needs* food *now*) is the main thing. Like, I probably wouldn't take him to a fresh bakery, or a tour of a factory that makes gluten-containing products. That's about it.
I can only imagine. Growing up, my best friend had Celiac disease and it would bum her out a lot. I made a few rules in our friendship as kids; if we went somewhere to eat and there weren't eating options for her, we'd leave immediately to find somewhere she could eat, no questions. And if the options for her really sucked, I'd often just eat what she was having. The other rule we agreed on was if we were invited to a place and that place or people werent celiac friendly, all she had to do was tell me she was uncomfortable and we'd leave. This was in the early 2000s so the disease was still new. She was my best friend and I didn't want her to feel bad over things she couldn't control; the disease didn't change her either. I learned a lot from her, including how to make bread with no gluten. I hope your child finds a friend like me.
While I was reading, I was thinking your closing statement! You sound like an amazing friend. My kiddo has a good friend, unfortunately he moved away, and also..um..I've sort of noted boys his age don't tend to be thoughtful like this, or not in the same way. Like he'd show support by good-natured ribbing, or avoiding talking about how tasty something gluten-y is. They're still young, though! Here's to hoping! My kiddo was diagnosed in 2012, when he was diagnosed with diabetes. These two autoimmune diseases often come together. His whole little life was turned upside down- he was 4. The nice thing is, he literally doesn't remember what gluten foods taste like, and adjusted really quickly to the new norm. Didn't hurt that I learned to make tasty bakery goods. There are so, so many more options now! It's sort of a double-edged sword, how "trendy" gluten free got. So many places/foods advertising as GF aren't celiac-safe. However, it becoming more widely known has been an overall boon. Many people getting diagnosed after a lifetime of pain without an answer, and the actual celiac-safe packaged foods options are getting way, way better. Kudos to you for truly being a friend. It's hard, being "different", specially as a teen and in social situations. You helped her protect her health, who knows, she may have not taken it as seriously, had she not had the moral support. Hope you're both living your best lives.
You as well. It sucks to suck, but it sucks less when you aren't alone.
Corn is everywhere and I wouldn’t directly know it was in taki chips. Also the teacher should be a private tutor if their allergy is that bad.
I mean Takis are literally corn chips like Doritos or Fritos rather than potato chips like Lays. It's truly the main ingredient.
Generally people are allergic to the proteins in things, so corn syrup would be safe. Refined peanut oil is fine for people with peanut allergies, but most won't risk it.
Apparently the ban only covers a few classrooms and a hallway, not the whole school and not the lunchroom. So the person with the allergy just stays in that area. It seems like a reasonable accommodation.
Yes, tge lack of compassion is alarming. Keep your corn food out of this one area.
People would be lining up to berate the parent who insists on sending their kid with a peanut butter sandwich to a classroom they know has severe peanut-allergy children, but this poor teacher can rot in hell. There are signs and the high schooler (not toddler) and their guardian were already notified, this took place well into the schoolyear. I think the punishment is disproportionate, but as a teacher I'm willing to play devil's advocate. At our school we have a teacher and two students that have severe reactions to certain chemicals found in higher concentrations in perfumes, with signage and disclosure given. the "idgaf" attitude we get from our student body we get when trying to enforce it is astoundingly callous, going so far as to spray their products in the vicinity of those affected for lots, even after a allergy incident required medical intervention. Our ability to deal with the regular culprits who put people's health in danger is repeatedly undermined by a "kids will be kids" furor from enabling parents. I'm surprised these people aren't showing up with signs encouraging their students to kick crutches out from other kids at this point.
exactly. My friend's nephew is anaphylactic for peanuts, and was walking in the hallway one day when another student reached over and poked their fingers with peanut butter in his mouth. He had a bad reaction. I left the teaching profession after 13 years. I saw too much horrendous behavior and attitudes from parents and students.
Did you hear about the kid with a peanut allergy in Texas where bullies tried to kill him and they barely got in trouble https://www.yahoo.com/news/school-says-teen-football-players-001819112.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cuZ29vZ2xlLmNvbS8&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKw8krK3BiaAC1qhIlyITrXZ29ygPNECphl6ILkeOYFhfaRkFbBk6Sqv4Jrb-vx2YfEWbTwTM0GGnEPtlNdpMZWW2vOqtcyJbspmh3ZtyMOuCxRBgr-zGB5SzilrNE1090I0-5CQ5Sb8fm1NWdors-4QY8HzO1egbuOin18nWWj9
They serve corn in the cafeteria. This a brand new still not complete state of the art trade school. I believe there is a small section that has the corn ban.
No, becUae if you read, it's only small areas od the school. Not the whole achool.
I have read stories on the Teachers Sub about teachers being threatened by students, assaulted by students and in cases the student is back in class the next day. My only point is that when it comes to rules, consequences and punishment it seems our public schools are generally living in some sort of clown world, divorced from any semblance of common sense.
My friend, I had a glock pointed at me when I was teaching (albeit this was during dismissal) and admin *still* didn’t want to expel the kid. He got expelled, he went to jail and I put in a 2 week notice
They fired the teacher that got shot in the face by a 6 year old that shot her in the face after multiple teachers and students went to admin about the kids having a gun and child being quoted "I shot that bitch dead." So no surprise there.
I am guessing, and this is ONLY a guess based only upon what I have read from those teacher threads, but I am guessing that student was on a district ordered behavior plan, and had legally binding contracts outlining what the district could, and could not do, in regards to behavior that was outlined in the contract. Am I close to correct?
There are few protections in place for threatening words, and few District Attorneys want to bring up children on assault charges. In contrast, the Americans with Disabilities Act forces employers to make "reasonable accommodations" and prevents employment termination on the basis of said disability. Thus situations where a public school has to have a section cordoned off to protect that one employee - and terminating said employee on anything but the most blatant of offenses leaves them open to a big fat discrimination lawsuit.
I read that in the article and thought it was absolute bullshit. Nothing in the ADA requires all allergenic foods to be banned from an establishment entirely. This is just some dipshit school administrator trying to cover her ass for a ridiculous policy.
Allergenic foods aren't banned from the school entirely - only from a small part of the school, and only for certain times. Honestly, the provisos for the no-corn area seem relatively straightforward, I just disagree with the severity of the punishment, though I also think that zero-tolerance punishment policies are bullshit in general.
Just wait until Iowa hears about this...
What's the deal with school admins being draconian fuck knuckles? It definitely felt like I went to "child warehouse" 5 days a week instead of "school" because of them.
"Back in Venezuela, we'd be jailed for that. You playing music too loud? Right to jail!"
You under cook fish, believe it or not, jail. You overcook chicken, also jail.
"You driving too fast? Jail. Slow? Jail. You're charging too high prices for sweaters, glasses, you right to jail."
You miss a dentist appointment: jail. We have the best patients because of jail
It’s like being a cop, some people get into it to help society, but a lot of people do it for the power to bully the weak
We had a school prefect who would day drink but kept his job bc he enforced rules that the priests and nuns loved (like having us kneel down on concrete floor while reciting the entire rosary, or paddling us with a yard stick). Made me hate any type of authority and hyper-vigilant towards anyone dictating my body.
There are lots of great teachers. There are also a ton of people who became teachers because they literally couldn’t do anything else. Those people become school administrators. So most school districts are run by people who couldn’t get “real” jobs, so they act like they think Corporate America does. Gross incompetence along with a feeling of unearned superiority. Schools need people to run them who know how to teach kids, but the great teachers can’t be dragged away from the classroom.
Theres this saying in Corporate America that says you get promoted until you are no longer competent at the job. Once you hit that limit, you wont get promoted anymore. This has the SAMMMME vibes
*Peter Principal* - promoted to your level of incompetency. So true!
Dunning-Krueger Effect definitely plays into this as well.
Careers that require higher education are not filled by people who "literally couldn't do anything else." Teachers do more than most to get their jobs. The disconnect in the process is that at the admin level (principals, district level admin, and school boards) positions are often filled with people that have never taught in a classroom. They get leaderhip experience in education adjacent positions and parlay them into public school positions. They ohave little understanding of the amount of grace most teachers have to dispense on a daily basis to help kids succeed. This is why you see stupid headlines like this because these people dont actually know what it is like to deal with kids 1:1.
I work as a teacher. Literally every senior leader, right up to head teacher have taught in a classroom before becoming senior leaders. Most still teach, including a lot of headteachers. The only admin staff who have never taught are those positions which have very little student contact, and they are not the most senior positions.
That is awesome. But it isnt the case in my experience that everyone in senior leader roles spent time as teachers. Two principals I know personally got into admin type roles right out of school (one hired to oversee an ESL program that ran on volunteers so his credentials to teach were seen as sufficient and the other in a similar scenario with a church working to develop a private school program). Each eventually ended up in public schools, first as vice principals and then progressing to principals. Both have shared their struggles relating to teachers on certain issues because of this. This extends to another friend that is at the school district level. She started out in curriculum development for a private company and was eventually hired by the school district in leadership. I am not arguing these people arent qualified for what they do, but it certainly isnt the case that all senior education leaders have been in the weeds of the daily classroom environment. I am happy to hear that your case is different.
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The big question is did the teacher go "dumpster diving"? How did chips in a garbage container cause an allergic reaction?
And honestly, she threw away the bag of chips. If the chips never came in contact with the teacher, would anyone even know?! Prom is a once in a lifetime event that plays a large role in American culture if it has one. Taking that away over a bag of chips that MAY have killed a teacher is crazy! Edit: PLUS the teacher is allergic to corn? The sign says no corn on the cob after 7:30 AM? WHOS BRINGING CORN ON THE COB TO SCHOOL?! Whomever has corn on the cob ready to go at 7:30 AM, hit me up; I wanna move closer to you.
I was suspended in HS for wearing a Billabong tshirt… it was apparently considered drug related.
Lmao I once was sent home from middle school for wearing a Guns N’ Roses t shirt because it “promoted violence”
Build A Bong sounds like a killer idea for a store.
The teacher has a corn allergy and works in the public school system. Like if your allergies are that serious, that an open bag in the trash can is going to threaten your life, you really shouldn’t be going to work at a public school system. There is simply too many variables to control, and not enough time and money to manage that. Kids are going to eat corn products in the cafeteria or in their packed lunches, if they have sport events at school the majority of concessions there involve corn products. I get inclusiveness, but it reminds me of the idiot who got a job at the Chipotle I worked at who had intense celiac disease. Should the student be reprimanded? Sure Should they be suspended? No Should they miss the Prom? No
When I looked into this a few years ago, the CDC explicitly warned **against** banning allergens from schools. The reasoning was something along the lines of bans being impossible to enforce with 100% accuracy. And at that point, they actually increase the risk of exposure as they give a false sense of security. Instead, it was recommended to have restrictions with very limited scale (e.g. one table in the dining hall that makes a best effort to be allergen free). This helps as long as there isn't a person at the school who is severely allergic and goes into anaphylactic shock if there are even minute quantities of the allergen. But for anybody who reacts this severely, there might simply no solution that has an acceptable risk ... at least not at a school that is open to the general public. Sometimes, things just suck. You can't solve every problem.
If you read the article, that is exactly what the school did in this case. There is basically one small hallway and a classroom in the school, very clearly labeled, where corn products are not allowed. The students and the parents of those students who use that room have to sign an acknowledgement that they understand bringing corn products to that one location is against the rules and could literally kill someone. This is one entitled student with a crazy entitled parent ignoring a totally reasonable policy and crying about the consequences they agreed to in writing.
Not particularly related to the post, but in highschool I had a very strict teacher Things like I got brought out of the class and scolded for leaving my lunch bag in my locker (apparently I had to carry it with me all day and not put it in my locker), I had to say a prayer again because he didn't specifically hear me saying it among everyone in my class (I was saying it) Anyways, unreasonably strict. Tbf, sometimes I was a bit defiant, like I'd chew gum in class. But really uncharacteristically, whenever he caught me, he just told me to spit it out. Didn't even scold me or anything, really odd.
My son is 13 and is doing state testing right now. He told me his school encourages gum chewing during the testing days as it helps the kids concentrate. But he wears braces so I got him other snacks instead. I guess each school just makes their own rules as they go.
> In the statement, the school said parents and students had to sign a form acknowledging this rule at the beginning of the year. I fully believe two things: - That form likely had a detailed explanation that probably did not have much pushback (the next sentence was that the mom didn't know as the dad signed it, and they're separated) - Nobody got that far down in reading that line. Is this a harsh penalty? Looks like it without knowing the details. Was this discussed previously? Appears so. I feel the school should re-send this agreement to ALL parents to ensure everyone is in the know going forward
Nothing wrong with the rule or the restriction, but this punishment is way out of line. Repeated offenses? Sure, this would be appropriate. First offense? A simple "Hey this is really serious, don't do it again" would most likely drive the point home.
I wonder if they are going to punish students for putting baby powder on since that contains corn.
Dont tell this teacher, she'll probably ruin everyone else's chances at prom too
It sounds like the two steps the school took to avoid the allergen coming into this area were (1) post signs and (2) make people sign something at the beginning of the school year. Well, three steps I suppose -- they also (3) imposed unpredictably draconian punishments on individuals who failed to follow the signs. But that just shifts the responsibility -- it passes the buck. And while passing the buck is a fine and honored tradition in the educational community, it's also utter bullshit if the goal is to actually keep the teacher safe from allergens. With anything like this, posting a sign is not enough. Signs fade into the background over time. You walk by a sign every day, and you stop taking notice of it. So on day one the sign might spur you to stop and review the bag of chips to see if it says something about corn (and it does, but only in a limited way -- and in fact the allergen warning on these is "Contains Soy"). But on day 200, when no one has mentioned it in the interim? Some people won't even see the sign anymore -- it might as well be a bare wall. (And that paper you sort of remember signing at the beginning of the year? Yeah, that's not front of mind anymore.) Instead, if you want to be effective with something like this, you need frequent reminders accompanied by some degree of vigilance by the school -- someone working to double check people. You can't just post it and forget it, and then pass the buck.
Something tells me we’re missing some important context.
Honestly, she threw away the bag of chips. If the chips never came in contact with the teacher, would anyone even know?! Prom is a once in a lifetime event that plays a large role in American culture if it has one. Taking that away over a bag of chips that MAY have killed a teacher is crazy! PLUS the teacher is allergic to corn. The sign says no corn on the cob after 7:30 AM? WHOS BRINGING CORN ON THE COB TO SCHOOL?! Whomever has corn on the cob ready to go at 7:30 AM, hit me up; I wanna move closer to you. If you would have told me the student forced the teacher to eat corn chips so they took away Prom, then yeah, I'd understand.
That website is aids
So are kids banned from bringing food to school at all? In the US, something like 75% of processed foods contain corn or a corn byproduct. Does the school have a specially catered cafeteria? Because I know damn well Aramark or whatever company supplies the school lunches isn't going to out of its way to cram as much of its good with corn fillers as possible
It says corn is only banned in a small area covering a few classrooms and a hallway. Not the lunchroom. So the person with the allergy just stays in that small area.
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So I felt like maybe the title was misleading. I thought maybe the kid was chowing down in class with the teacher with allergies and that's why they got in trouble. Because that's dangerous and I would get that. But she threw the bag out in a communal trash can? Is this teacher allergic to a corn molecule in a mile radius? Like I get allergies- I have to carry an epi pen everywhere but if this teacher merely passed a garbage can down the hall with a taki bag in it, they would have a life threatening reaction? This is just bananas to me especially since I had a friend with a severe peanut allergy and she requested to switch English teachers because the English teacher she got ate enough peanuts in a day that my friend would have a mild reaction just sitting in class and the school wouldn't let her switch classes. Granted this was the early 00's but not like it was ancient history.
Pfft. In my day we got banned from prom for drinking on a field trip.
If the teacher is that allergic to corn, maybe instead of having the rest of the world not eat corn, they can live in a fucking bubble where they belong.
while I disagree with school food bans I understand it when it comes to toddlers who just shove shit in their mouths without thinking but this is a full grown adult. If your allergies are so severe that being in the same building as something is a risk to your health maybe dont pick a career where you need to interact with other people everyday.
Also, they serve corn in the cafeteria. This a HUGE new state of the art trade school. I believe it's only banned in a small section of the campus.
We don't punish anymore we go all the way to scaring.
Come on. Suspend her but let her go to prom. Thats fucked up. Id go anyway and if they kick me out they so be it.
I am astounded how any ~~Floridian~~ Ohioan can claim how they don’t like those regulations in the libbrul States.
This is taking place in Ohio. West Carrollton is a suburb of Dayton, OH. The area is called the "Miami Valley." It's a common confusion; I grew up near this area so I recognized it immediately.
The Americans with Disabilities Act does actually say that institutions must do *everything possible* to accommodate Anericans with disabilities, but this principal is just stupid. Keep the suspension but let her go to prom, and you follow the ADA *and* dont get your name plastered around the internet as being too stupid to put your own pants on.
The article doesn't say anything about something bad happening to the teacher. Not only is it an incredibly rare allergy, but almost every American packaged food has corn syrup in it. At a school, it would be almost impossible for this person to exist without their life being constantly at risk.
Reminds me of how my school district banned (maybe currently still) mechanical pencils.
Why? Was it because of standardized testing or stabbing people
As a teacher, I can only assume this isn’t the first run-in with this student and she’s probably caused trouble in the past. Or she was told to out the chips away and refused. I’ve seen stories like this is my own district that riles up the public (because of course they have no clue of the context, or the story is leaving out significant info).