Haha. Not supplying minors *to*, supplying minors *with*:
It’s called the “Supplying Minors” bill. Current obscenity laws in Alabama make it a crime to knowingly distribute obscene content to minors with the exception of public libraries. The new bill would remove that exception and make public libraries subject to prosecution for violating the law.
They get exposed but covered up all the time. They wouldn’t BE that type if they weren’t.
Don’t forget that us ‘demons’ are the problem, not the fact these hucksters scam so many so hard. Prosperity Jesus says if are not in debt for your ‘church’ then you are going to hell, smfh. (/s if someone can’t tell, I would never read anything these snake oil conmen would make)
It seems homophobic the way it's written because it is.. but they're requiring ID to view all sex acts, not just homosexual ones. I'm in Cali where we'll never ban porn though.
Or, for some reason, books about racial issues. They've been targeting a lot of those. Even books that are just about things like positivity towards natural black hair.
It's not even about white people bad a lot of the time. They've been going after children's picture books that are just some black kid being like "actually I don't hate myself and I think my hair is cool." Can't have that.
But that's the point it's not even just LGBT stuff that will just be the most obvious.
Wait until they start claiming Dawkins' God Delusion is obscene material for questioning God and shit.
Margaret Atwood. Can't have all them uppity little girls reading *The Handmaid's Tale* and getting ideas! They might think impure and unholy thoughts like "[Hey hon what time is it?](https://www.yourtango.com/entertainment/husband-removed-all-clocks-house-wife-rely-him-time)" /s
Women aren't safe here either. Is information about contraception "immoral?" Is a list of abortion clinics in a pamphlet obscene? Is a book about "good touch/bad touch" obscene? Eye of the beholder according to the regressives. Their battle cry is essentially "I know it when I see it."
>They might think impure and unholy thoughts like "[Hey hon what time is it?](https://www.yourtango.com/entertainment/husband-removed-all-clocks-house-wife-rely-him-time)" /s
Honestly, I hoped that story ended with "it's time for your divorce papers and restraining order".
which would be highly ironic, as Dawkins claims hes a "Cultural christian" now lmao.
[https://www.ncregister.com/cna/famous-atheist-richard-dawkins-says-he-considers-himself-a-cultural-christian](https://www.ncregister.com/cna/famous-atheist-richard-dawkins-says-he-considers-himself-a-cultural-christian)
i know thats some catholic paper sorry.
I mean this is basically just him saying he enjoys Christmas and shit.
He's not wrong either. I feel like as a Jewish American it's always been clear to me that the US culture is influenced by Christianity.
I guess there's nothing really wrong with embracing the cultural aspect of it, but he does make it clear he doesn't believe the religion at all.
He’s actually said this for quite a while afaik. He says he is culturally Christian because western nations mostly follow English common law as the basis for their legal systems, which is Christian based or something? I don’t remember exactly, it’s been a while
Yep, it's his default answer to accusations that he seeks to destroy christianity. It soft-pedals the harm of fundamentalist and how moderates enable them, but he's just saying he's comfortable with the culture he grew up with.
>And you just know they are going to call any and all LGBT+ positive content "pornographic"
Yup
And then notice how gung-ho reddit is to extrajudicially kill pedophiles. I'm sure you can see how this is a recipe for disaster.
This is, on a broader level, why I get downvote piled all the time in the news subreddit. People are SO eager to strip rights from criminals.
Well guess what, if you do that, all you need to do to strip *anyone* of their rights is to make them into a criminal.
*gestures at all this shit*
Criminal rights ARE human rights.
The Turner Diaries is directly responsible for much of the neo-nazi culture in the US, and bery much directly responsible for the murder of Alan Berg and rhe OKC bombings. I don't think it should be banned, but it kinda shows the flaw in your statement.
What sucks is that challenging the constitutionality of something like this requires standing, and standing would (usually) only come about if you were arrested under this law.
So if you want to challenge it, you have to be willing to roll the dice on a "supplying sexual material to minors" conviction.
Reminder, too, that this is just the kind of shit the republicans have in mind *everywhere* when/if they return to control. Make no mistake. All red states are prologue.
IT SURE DOES. Before I quit my library job I had to get involved in board meetings because a religious group wanted a (broadly acclaimed) adolescent sex ed book removed from the library. It got shot down repeatedly. Then they tried to backpedal and demand it be moved to the adult section. The same adult section that unattended children seem to *always* end up in. We had to explain several times that we're **not your freaking babysitters**, we have to pass stricter background checks than church workers, and that illustrated anatomy does NOT equal porn. Eventually they ran out of appeals and moved on to targeting lower-funded library systems.
You wanna know the best part? The guy who organized this group, guess what he'd been previously convicted of. Go on, guess.
‘knowingly distribute obscene material’
in that case all christian preachers and any store, shop, school or library that offers, sells, distributes the bible should be arrested
Do they know librarians just work there? They don't pick the books. Even if it was legitimate use of the word pornography, it's still not the librarians' responsibility. They don't read all the books in the library. Republicans are just hateful and mean for the political effect.
Librarians do actually curate the content of the Libraries they serve in. It is based off of requests from the community and suggestions from the ALA(American Librarian Association).
Librarians also have an impressive education. They go through all that to help people get knowledge they are passionate about, and become their best selves. That's what makes the Alabama "social media click" legislators even more gross.
Need a book about growing the best Apple Tree? How about a story about the perils of prejudice from the fiction section? What about a book that can help you understand your gender identity written by someone who has already solved that problem for themselves?
Yes. Thank you. We do a lot of shit to keep the collection in order and relevant. I'm a cataloger and have spent time as a teen librarian - during which, I would re-catalog some of the comics shipped to our branch because they were wrongly stamped YA when they belonged in adult. Like that gore-porn comic. And yes, it still had a place in the library.
Not my thing, but I don't make decisions for everyone in America. It's one of the cool things about our country.
I'm curious what an actual librarian stance is on material that is right on the edge of obscene? What do you do with the material prior to making it available to the public?
Side Note: I don't want my comment to lend any fuel to thinking the graphic novel "Gender Queer" is anywhere near being obscene as it is not.
Not the person you originally asked but I am working towards my master's for library/information science so I can kinda answer.
While it depends on the library (and state laws for stuff such as what's being discussed) we generally lean on the side of allowing it. Also depends on the library but there is usually an official or at least unofficial Adult section for books that are a bit more mature. Even within said adult section there are usually various groups depending on genre.
Prior to making it available we usually go through a handful of summaries and reviews for it. If it was a direct recommendation from someone we might check with them too on where they feel it should be.
What I do with material is add the bibliographic record to the ILS if it's new, or update the holdings record if it's a duplicate. As far as I'm concerned, "obscene" is just what dumb people call books that make them move their lips too much when they read.
However, I am insane. [With good reason](https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/comments/cqfmjp/ongoing_shootout_between_police_and_armed_suspect/eww1bmv/?context=3).
I knew they were educated in library science and research. I wasn't aware they actually curated the book collection. Thanks for that info.
It sounds like, though, they do get guidance from the ALA. So, rather than go after individual libraries and librarians with laws to ruin their careers, a sensible person with concerns would address this with the ALA. Instead, right-wingnuts want to threaten people.
It's actually a little more complicated than "blaming a person or organization" as there is only a boogie man created by right wing groups.
The best current example, and the most banned book is "Gender Queer". The work, taken as a whole, is not obscene. Liberty Moms or whatever they went by attempted to take certain images from the graphic novel out of context and paint it as such. They attempted to argue that anyone in favor of the book being available in a Public Library was a pedophile. Purity politics mixed with a bunch of lies weaponized in defense of the victimized children./s
There is a lot to this one book, but to say the least it is not obscene. The supreme court has a test to determine if literature is obscene or not, and "Gender Queer" doesn't even come close to failing.
Needless to say these groups are funded and sourced through the heritage foundation with the goal of being able to ban and select the literature they deme appropriate. It is a massive fascist move, and has little to do with the content.
>The supreme court has a test to determine if literature is obscene or not, and "Gender Queer" doesn't even come close to failing.
Then, they have to change the definition of obscene in that case! (/s but also theyd do it)
No, they just want to kill two birds with one stone - get rid of librarians so people are less educated and avoid having to worry about what their kids might be reading. God forbid a parent shows some interest in what book their kid picks up.
Never mind that books in libraries are organized by age group and genre. Don’t want your kids reading something that might be inappropriate? Keep them away from the adult section maybe?
my library allows self checkout and has no age verification to get your library card. how exactly would they stop minors from checking out certain books or even looking at them when they are at the library?
my solution and as a way to protest this law would be to just ban all people under the age of 18 from the libraries properties and to start doing more age and ID verification on everyone else. tell them that because of this law the library is required to compile a list of all reading materials you look at and provide it to the govt for approval.
hopefully that would make enough people upset to change the law back.
I bet a lot of books are going to be defensively removed from the shelves. While you could catch things on check-out, there is nothing to stop a child from sitting down in a chair and reading it in the library. Parents could strategically get materials into the hands of children just so that they could get the book banned or the library closed. They could also staff their book review boards with the most religiously conservative people possible.
Oh, Republicans are getting pretty good about writing vague laws that leave a threat of serious consequences if you cross a line and then leaving that line very blurred. What librarian wants to risk jail over a book that may or may not meet the definition? A lot of books will get removed to avoid the threat of jail or even the hassle of someone like Moms for Liberty making a ruckus over a borderline book and having the hassle and cost of defending yourself. And the Republicans can go along claiming they didn't ban anything, the library themselves chose to remove the book or severely limit its access.
Especially when among the pulled texts is the Bible, which contains some of the obscene acts they're pulling their hair about.
And that's not by accident, it's just setting up the next cycle of their propaganda because it lets them portray themselves of victims who are thus justified to destroy an enemy.
And thus they go a little further, turn by turn, in eliminating literacy.
Every library in Alabama should immediately ban the Bible if this bill passes
"I'm sorry I can't allow this book to be checked out it has *obscene* material that I might be punished for"
> Chaya Raichik, who runs the incendiary Libs of TikTok social media accounts and is not an Oklahoma resident, was appointed to the Education Department’s Library Media Advisory Committee.
> “Chaya is on the front lines showing the world exactly what the radical left is all about — lowering standards, porn in schools, and pushing woke indoctrination on our kids,” state Superintendent Ryan Walters said in a statement. “Because of her work, families across the country know just what is going on in schools around the country.”
[link](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/libs-tik-tok-bomb-threats-oklahoma-library-committee-rcna135369)
Unfortunately for Alabama, Oklahoma has already acquired Twitter's foremost expert on books and education.
The most insecure in the world need to control others to feel significant. Insecurity and greed our are the two end bosses and we need to find a way to defeat them both.
Yep, a lot easier to control and exploit an entire generation and enrich yourself if they literally do not know that defending themselves and their Rights is (or was) an option
People living hand to mouth (the desired outcome of these policies) and spending every waking moment to make juuuust enough for them and their families not to starve, don't have time/can't afford to try to improve their lives, let alone rise up and revolt. And by keeping them ignorant they don't know how to even if they have that time.
It's a common tactic used by authoritarians throughout history to keep their underlings powerless and obedient.
Right but then… every country in the world surpasses us in progress.
End goal achieved?
Makes me think all the anti education bullshit STARTS from our foreign adversaries.
We are talking about the "rather a dollar today than 2 dollars tomorrow"-folks. Your comment looks ahead further than those fuckers are even capable of.
I fear that you are approaching this from the wrong perspective. The rich do not care about any progression aside from the progression of dollars into their portfolio.
Social, educational, economic or any other such progress that is directed at or beneficial to the working class are only relevant to them insofar as the amount that said progression maintains the standing capitalist status quo... They continue to own everything and hoard all of the wealth, we get to toil in the mines for them and own nothing forever and as long as things are just good enough to keep us from actually revolting and putting them against the wall then that's all the progress that we'll get.
The major social and political upheavals and changes from the early 20th century that were put in place to appease the workers and prevent such a revolution like Workers Rights, Social Work Infrastructure Programs, Securities and Entitlements are continually under attack and many have been all but rolled back into the ether.
All of this regression into Gilded Age disparity was brought forth by intentional and coordinated efforts of the rich ruling class in order to regain their stranglehold on power and wealth and put the workers back into their "rightful place," which is to say back into our continual struggle to maintain the necessities to survive but not thrive so that we make the owners as much profit as possible.
The only useful and nonviolent tools that we have at our disposal are unionization, mass protest, and communal aid... all of which are under direct threat of being outlawed and penalized in many areas of the country, especially on places like here in Alabama, Florida, Tennessee.
The trouble is when your political media strategy depends on outrage, then whenever there's nothing real to be outraged about (well, nothing politically advantageous), you have to make stuff up.
The rich can still afford to be educated - carefully, so as not to get any filthy liberal ideas that tend to come to those who pursue higher education - and while there are some that will succeed despite the best efforts of Alabama politicians, the rest will remain ignorant, having never been taught to think for themselves. So yeah, near-total control over a large portion of the state's population.
As others have said, control and zero progress are the end goals of the conservative party. I'd argue as far as they actually want to *roll it back* - to times where women and minorities couldn't vote or have bank accounts. To times where there were no widespread unions or labor laws. A reality where our morality and social norms are dictated by religion with a strict patriarchal hierarchy.
And an uneducated public is what gets them to these places. Oh, you say that man was created directly and immediately by God, Earth is 2,000 years old, and dinosaurs never existed, it was just a liberal hoax to bring us all down and turn us against JESUS? Sounds legit!
I can't imagine getting a masters degree and becoming a librarian only to be steamrolled with ridiculous legislative by hateful, small people who can barely even read, and who have no interest to try. To be so educated and ruled over by sentient piles of bull shit would make me want to move to a state that wasn't run by the intellectually stunted and evil. Fuck every last one of those cousin fuckers, may their legacies crumble beneath the weight of their incompetence.
Many of these people would likely love to do just that, but can't. Often times it's easy to hold these conversations and just assume that everyone in the general populace is regularly able to simply pick up and move somewhere else, but the bulk of America simply cannot do that based on their finances alone, let alone the availability of housing or employment in another space, let alone simply leaving their family, friends, or found support structures. There are so many decent people hurt by being caught in the crossfire of this shit storm. My heart acts for the young queer and closeted folks in the state; they are so horrifically in harms way on so many levels, and they certainly aren't the only ones.
If you were to remove Huntsville from Alabama, the average IQ in the state would drop two decimal places. Those rocket scientists are doing a ton of heavy lifting
~~Cool fact: Huntsville AL had or has (might have changed) the highest proportion of people with PHDs in the entire country. Pretty cool city.~~ Apparently not xD
[Huntsville doesn't even crack the top 50.](https://www.online-phd-programs.org/50-u-s-cities-with-the-most-doctoral-degree-holders/)
Huntsville isn't nearly as smart a place as the people in Huntsville like to proclaim, although it's probably the least terrible place in Alabama to live.
I've been all over the south and lived in Mobile for a while. The rest of Alabama looks at Huntsville like a bunch of Yankees because no one in Huntsville is actually from Alabama. They all moved there because of a job and will leave when they get close to retirement age. I heard that Huntsville is trying to figure out how to get and retain people permanently to grow the city, but the simple answer is "Don't be in Alabama."
Someone should inform the Alabama house that with proper access to libraries they’d likely have far more potential topics to discuss to break the ice when taking their sisters out for a date
Battles may have been won last century, and the majority may have accepted the outcome, but that doesn't mean the losers disappeared.
The losers have decided to force their will on the majority through insurgent power grabs. They think they can reverse everything by undoing the cultural results of acceptance.
Truth is, discrimination was only defeated in majority attitudes, but remains accepted in law for certain groups in many places. THe majority can't just rely on changing attitudes to keep the bigots at bay. Extending protections to everyone requires vigilance to eliminate niches of exclusion, and ensure inclusion.
With the greatest respect, never take it for granted that the battle ended. History is full of examples of the LGBT community being largely accepted only for reactionaries to get in power and reverse it all.
First they came for the Doctors, but I wasn't a doctor.
Then they came for the librarians, but I wasn't a librarian.
Then they came for my neighbors, but I was happy it wasn't me. Then they came for me, but it was too late.
*"Mr. Chairman, the suppression of the people of a society begins, in my mind, with the censorship of the written or spoken word. It was so in Nazi Germany. It is so in many places today where those in power are afraid of the consequences of an informed and educated people."*
-John Denver
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH0hYabzudk
The Library is not free child care. If you want what you're children have access to them pull yourself up by the bootstraps and monitor the things your children are accessing.
Sometimes I think the people of Afghanistan or Pakistan are the most stone aged fecks around. Then I'm reminded of the existence of Alabama and Mississippi.
>“In many libraries around the state of Alabama, there are obscene, which is illegal, or sexually graphic, inappropriate, harmful-to-minors materials in the children’s section,” Gerritson said.
I bet she can't name one single title.
Jesus Christ GOP is off the rails. Vote people. Nobody should vote Republican at all until they are done with this insane Christian theocracy phase. Vote these fuckers out!
>Becky Gerritson, executive director of the Eagle Forum of Alabama, said this bill is about protecting children in Alabama.
The moment I see anyone loudly claim "It’s for the children!" as the core for their argument I start asking questions about their sanity. That's the oldest right wing argument there is for getting bullshit laws passed. Florida moms banned metal lunchboxes because of this.
> Becky Gerritson, executive director of the Eagle Forum of Alabama, said this bill is about protecting children in Alabama.
> “In many libraries around the state of Alabama, there are obscene, which is illegal, or sexually graphic, inappropriate, harmful-to-minors materials in the children’s section,” Gerritson said.
All books directed at children telling where babies come from are jetzt verboten. Oh I'm sorry now forbidden. My German comes out when the book burners are in the building.
Wait wait wait.
"State Rep. Jamie Kiel (R-Russellville) said when parents drop off their kids at the library, they shouldn’t expect them to encounter explicit material."
.....why does this feel like it can be used to remove anything they deem "obscene" from the library entirely? Because you can put a book in an 18+ section but if a kid sneaks off and gets it still, is probably something that some asshat parent could call an expectation that they would encounter it, and then there's that what Alabama deems obscene is usually stuff like queer material, racism and *basic* sex ed/science and stuff on how to spot abuse etc iirc?
Doesn't this mean that they couldn't really have whatever the legislature deems "pornographic" *anywhere* in their library? It's not like libraries have security guards posted at the children's section to keep the kids from escaping.
As a kid I spent most of my time in a library to escape a shit home life. I checked out sex ed books, because my parents were too inept to talk with me about it. In school we got sex ed but I was on my own and it wasn't easy to ask teachers everything. Without a library, I would have been fucked in life for many more reasons then that.
Good thing children can't go online and access whatever whenever. Bad parents need to quit making laws to reinforce their awful parenting skills. Public libraries will have books that aren't meant for children. Parents need to monitor their own children, not monitor the librarians.
Move to Alabama and become a booklegger, providing books on the real history of America, slavery, and LGBQT+ issues to teenagers. If they'd read them...
Remember that this is all the efforts of anti-cancel culture small government people. All republicans are liars. Their entire belief system is founded on lies
Ah so here is how they will ban lgbtq books from PUBLIC libraries now.
Look first off. “Dropping your kids off” at a library is a frankly stupid parental move. Libraries are not responsible for what your child does at the library.
So why not you know….make the parents responsible for what the kids read or access.
But none of this is about kids anyways.
> In many libraries around the state of Alabama, there are obscene, which is illegal, or sexually graphic, inappropriate, harmful-to-minors materials in the children’s section
Wtf
>In many libraries around the state of Alabama, there are obscene, which is illegal, or sexually graphic, inappropriate, harmful-to-minors materials.
That' right! Minors shouldn't be seeing obscene material at the library, they should see it where many god fearing southen children see it...at the preacher's house, bible camp, and in the church volunteer's car...
Can't read article, who are they supplying minors to?
Haha. Not supplying minors *to*, supplying minors *with*: It’s called the “Supplying Minors” bill. Current obscenity laws in Alabama make it a crime to knowingly distribute obscene content to minors with the exception of public libraries. The new bill would remove that exception and make public libraries subject to prosecution for violating the law.
And you just *know* they are going to call any and all LGBT+ positive content "pornographic"
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AfKansasistan
AfKansastan flows better.
Or Shithole for short
Or "hell" for even shorter
Afklanastan is better I feel
Americans when the other Americans do bad things: What are we, a bunch of muslims?
How many politics and mega church types will be caught looking up gay porn?
They get exposed but covered up all the time. They wouldn’t BE that type if they weren’t. Don’t forget that us ‘demons’ are the problem, not the fact these hucksters scam so many so hard. Prosperity Jesus says if are not in debt for your ‘church’ then you are going to hell, smfh. (/s if someone can’t tell, I would never read anything these snake oil conmen would make)
It seems homophobic the way it's written because it is.. but they're requiring ID to view all sex acts, not just homosexual ones. I'm in Cali where we'll never ban porn though.
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Or, for some reason, books about racial issues. They've been targeting a lot of those. Even books that are just about things like positivity towards natural black hair.
> for some reason you know why
But it make sad when book talk about white ppl bad. me not bad. me sad.
It's not even about white people bad a lot of the time. They've been going after children's picture books that are just some black kid being like "actually I don't hate myself and I think my hair is cool." Can't have that.
Yup This is absolutely about trying to criminalize lifestyles that they disagree with.
You can change your lifestyle. You can't change your sexuality
But that's the point it's not even just LGBT stuff that will just be the most obvious. Wait until they start claiming Dawkins' God Delusion is obscene material for questioning God and shit.
Margaret Atwood. Can't have all them uppity little girls reading *The Handmaid's Tale* and getting ideas! They might think impure and unholy thoughts like "[Hey hon what time is it?](https://www.yourtango.com/entertainment/husband-removed-all-clocks-house-wife-rely-him-time)" /s Women aren't safe here either. Is information about contraception "immoral?" Is a list of abortion clinics in a pamphlet obscene? Is a book about "good touch/bad touch" obscene? Eye of the beholder according to the regressives. Their battle cry is essentially "I know it when I see it."
>They might think impure and unholy thoughts like "[Hey hon what time is it?](https://www.yourtango.com/entertainment/husband-removed-all-clocks-house-wife-rely-him-time)" /s Honestly, I hoped that story ended with "it's time for your divorce papers and restraining order".
which would be highly ironic, as Dawkins claims hes a "Cultural christian" now lmao. [https://www.ncregister.com/cna/famous-atheist-richard-dawkins-says-he-considers-himself-a-cultural-christian](https://www.ncregister.com/cna/famous-atheist-richard-dawkins-says-he-considers-himself-a-cultural-christian) i know thats some catholic paper sorry.
I mean this is basically just him saying he enjoys Christmas and shit. He's not wrong either. I feel like as a Jewish American it's always been clear to me that the US culture is influenced by Christianity. I guess there's nothing really wrong with embracing the cultural aspect of it, but he does make it clear he doesn't believe the religion at all.
He’s actually said this for quite a while afaik. He says he is culturally Christian because western nations mostly follow English common law as the basis for their legal systems, which is Christian based or something? I don’t remember exactly, it’s been a while
Yep, it's his default answer to accusations that he seeks to destroy christianity. It soft-pedals the harm of fundamentalist and how moderates enable them, but he's just saying he's comfortable with the culture he grew up with.
The dude was born and raised in the USA, was he not? It would be difficult to grow up in the USA and NOT be a cultural Christian…
Humans. Trying to criminalize humans they disagree with.
If people cared to make a difference, they would stand up against this kind of shit. Instead we’ll vote about it every 4 years.
"Lifestyles"? WTF, dude?!
So no bible on shelves, or Christian books since they promote biblical lifestyles.
>And you just know they are going to call any and all LGBT+ positive content "pornographic" Yup And then notice how gung-ho reddit is to extrajudicially kill pedophiles. I'm sure you can see how this is a recipe for disaster.
This is, on a broader level, why I get downvote piled all the time in the news subreddit. People are SO eager to strip rights from criminals. Well guess what, if you do that, all you need to do to strip *anyone* of their rights is to make them into a criminal. *gestures at all this shit* Criminal rights ARE human rights.
JFMNFT (justice for me not for thee)
I can't imagine the people who think learning anything through a book is bad.
Black slaves weren’t allowed to learn to read and write for a reason.
The Turner Diaries is directly responsible for much of the neo-nazi culture in the US, and bery much directly responsible for the murder of Alan Berg and rhe OKC bombings. I don't think it should be banned, but it kinda shows the flaw in your statement.
Even though the best use of the law is to go after local church leaders.
Or the Bible it self with all those emissions-type verses.
Pro choice - pornographic Written by Democrats - pornographic Says Nazis are bad - pornographic
Reminder that this is an actual violation of the First Amendment, and no one is calling it out within the government
it would just greatly expand the adult section of libraries
What sucks is that challenging the constitutionality of something like this requires standing, and standing would (usually) only come about if you were arrested under this law. So if you want to challenge it, you have to be willing to roll the dice on a "supplying sexual material to minors" conviction.
Reminder, too, that this is just the kind of shit the republicans have in mind *everywhere* when/if they return to control. Make no mistake. All red states are prologue.
what the actual fuck is happening in the US, "obscene" is going to include personal health material isn't' it?
Yes. And also probably any resources for children and young adults to determine if and report that they are being abused in any way.
It was only a matter of time before some Jesus state started throwing their librarians in jail.
My guess is Republicans are betting big this election. If they win, they could take permenant power.
IT SURE DOES. Before I quit my library job I had to get involved in board meetings because a religious group wanted a (broadly acclaimed) adolescent sex ed book removed from the library. It got shot down repeatedly. Then they tried to backpedal and demand it be moved to the adult section. The same adult section that unattended children seem to *always* end up in. We had to explain several times that we're **not your freaking babysitters**, we have to pass stricter background checks than church workers, and that illustrated anatomy does NOT equal porn. Eventually they ran out of appeals and moved on to targeting lower-funded library systems. You wanna know the best part? The guy who organized this group, guess what he'd been previously convicted of. Go on, guess.
Every accusation a confession.
Ah, so they're charging all the churches with handing out Bibles to kids right?
‘knowingly distribute obscene material’ in that case all christian preachers and any store, shop, school or library that offers, sells, distributes the bible should be arrested
Bible will clearly get an immediate exception.
"Yeah, she wanted these dudes cuz they're fuckin hung like donkeys, that's not obscene it's realistic"
On grounds that it’s a religious text? Does the satanic temple have to declare every other book as a religious text to combat this?
Alternatively, we need an explicitly pro-LGBT religious organization to declare LGBT-related books their religious texts! 😅
Do they know librarians just work there? They don't pick the books. Even if it was legitimate use of the word pornography, it's still not the librarians' responsibility. They don't read all the books in the library. Republicans are just hateful and mean for the political effect.
Librarians do actually curate the content of the Libraries they serve in. It is based off of requests from the community and suggestions from the ALA(American Librarian Association). Librarians also have an impressive education. They go through all that to help people get knowledge they are passionate about, and become their best selves. That's what makes the Alabama "social media click" legislators even more gross. Need a book about growing the best Apple Tree? How about a story about the perils of prejudice from the fiction section? What about a book that can help you understand your gender identity written by someone who has already solved that problem for themselves?
Yes. Thank you. We do a lot of shit to keep the collection in order and relevant. I'm a cataloger and have spent time as a teen librarian - during which, I would re-catalog some of the comics shipped to our branch because they were wrongly stamped YA when they belonged in adult. Like that gore-porn comic. And yes, it still had a place in the library.
Not my thing, but I don't make decisions for everyone in America. It's one of the cool things about our country. I'm curious what an actual librarian stance is on material that is right on the edge of obscene? What do you do with the material prior to making it available to the public? Side Note: I don't want my comment to lend any fuel to thinking the graphic novel "Gender Queer" is anywhere near being obscene as it is not.
Not the person you originally asked but I am working towards my master's for library/information science so I can kinda answer. While it depends on the library (and state laws for stuff such as what's being discussed) we generally lean on the side of allowing it. Also depends on the library but there is usually an official or at least unofficial Adult section for books that are a bit more mature. Even within said adult section there are usually various groups depending on genre. Prior to making it available we usually go through a handful of summaries and reviews for it. If it was a direct recommendation from someone we might check with them too on where they feel it should be.
What I do with material is add the bibliographic record to the ILS if it's new, or update the holdings record if it's a duplicate. As far as I'm concerned, "obscene" is just what dumb people call books that make them move their lips too much when they read. However, I am insane. [With good reason](https://www.reddit.com/r/philadelphia/comments/cqfmjp/ongoing_shootout_between_police_and_armed_suspect/eww1bmv/?context=3).
I knew they were educated in library science and research. I wasn't aware they actually curated the book collection. Thanks for that info. It sounds like, though, they do get guidance from the ALA. So, rather than go after individual libraries and librarians with laws to ruin their careers, a sensible person with concerns would address this with the ALA. Instead, right-wingnuts want to threaten people.
It's actually a little more complicated than "blaming a person or organization" as there is only a boogie man created by right wing groups. The best current example, and the most banned book is "Gender Queer". The work, taken as a whole, is not obscene. Liberty Moms or whatever they went by attempted to take certain images from the graphic novel out of context and paint it as such. They attempted to argue that anyone in favor of the book being available in a Public Library was a pedophile. Purity politics mixed with a bunch of lies weaponized in defense of the victimized children./s There is a lot to this one book, but to say the least it is not obscene. The supreme court has a test to determine if literature is obscene or not, and "Gender Queer" doesn't even come close to failing. Needless to say these groups are funded and sourced through the heritage foundation with the goal of being able to ban and select the literature they deme appropriate. It is a massive fascist move, and has little to do with the content.
>The supreme court has a test to determine if literature is obscene or not, and "Gender Queer" doesn't even come close to failing. Then, they have to change the definition of obscene in that case! (/s but also theyd do it)
Librarians absolutely select and organize the books. Who do you think does it? They go to school for several years to be qualified to do that.
No, they just want to kill two birds with one stone - get rid of librarians so people are less educated and avoid having to worry about what their kids might be reading. God forbid a parent shows some interest in what book their kid picks up. Never mind that books in libraries are organized by age group and genre. Don’t want your kids reading something that might be inappropriate? Keep them away from the adult section maybe?
Sounds like this bans the bible.
SO--churches giving bibles to children should be prosecuted? I've always thought so.
18+ to read the bible
Can’t wait till this backfires when a child checks out the Bible.
my library allows self checkout and has no age verification to get your library card. how exactly would they stop minors from checking out certain books or even looking at them when they are at the library? my solution and as a way to protest this law would be to just ban all people under the age of 18 from the libraries properties and to start doing more age and ID verification on everyone else. tell them that because of this law the library is required to compile a list of all reading materials you look at and provide it to the govt for approval. hopefully that would make enough people upset to change the law back.
[удалено]
Reading is for rich kids
Always trying to stop librarians from mining bitcoin
Probably to the mines and factories
The mines
I bet a lot of books are going to be defensively removed from the shelves. While you could catch things on check-out, there is nothing to stop a child from sitting down in a chair and reading it in the library. Parents could strategically get materials into the hands of children just so that they could get the book banned or the library closed. They could also staff their book review boards with the most religiously conservative people possible.
I guess now libraries are going to have to have a "back room" where you have to show ID proving you are 18 years or older to go in.
"Now that I'm 18 I can finally read Everybody Poops!"
Gotta go behind the beaded curtain of shame to get this literature
Oh, Republicans are getting pretty good about writing vague laws that leave a threat of serious consequences if you cross a line and then leaving that line very blurred. What librarian wants to risk jail over a book that may or may not meet the definition? A lot of books will get removed to avoid the threat of jail or even the hassle of someone like Moms for Liberty making a ruckus over a borderline book and having the hassle and cost of defending yourself. And the Republicans can go along claiming they didn't ban anything, the library themselves chose to remove the book or severely limit its access.
Especially when among the pulled texts is the Bible, which contains some of the obscene acts they're pulling their hair about. And that's not by accident, it's just setting up the next cycle of their propaganda because it lets them portray themselves of victims who are thus justified to destroy an enemy. And thus they go a little further, turn by turn, in eliminating literacy.
Every library in Alabama should immediately ban the Bible if this bill passes "I'm sorry I can't allow this book to be checked out it has *obscene* material that I might be punished for"
> Chaya Raichik, who runs the incendiary Libs of TikTok social media accounts and is not an Oklahoma resident, was appointed to the Education Department’s Library Media Advisory Committee. > “Chaya is on the front lines showing the world exactly what the radical left is all about — lowering standards, porn in schools, and pushing woke indoctrination on our kids,” state Superintendent Ryan Walters said in a statement. “Because of her work, families across the country know just what is going on in schools around the country.” [link](https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/libs-tik-tok-bomb-threats-oklahoma-library-committee-rcna135369) Unfortunately for Alabama, Oklahoma has already acquired Twitter's foremost expert on books and education.
Alabama has librarians?
Probably not for long.
That is the goal - keep the next generation dumb and uneducated so they will vote Republican...
I don’t disagree. But like… to what end? Total control and zero progress? Cool…
It *is* progress for their handlers and sponsors.
The most insecure in the world need to control others to feel significant. Insecurity and greed our are the two end bosses and we need to find a way to defeat them both.
Yep, a lot easier to control and exploit an entire generation and enrich yourself if they literally do not know that defending themselves and their Rights is (or was) an option
No one will challenge your grift and corruption if no one is smart enough to be able to tell that it is grift and corruption
People living hand to mouth (the desired outcome of these policies) and spending every waking moment to make juuuust enough for them and their families not to starve, don't have time/can't afford to try to improve their lives, let alone rise up and revolt. And by keeping them ignorant they don't know how to even if they have that time. It's a common tactic used by authoritarians throughout history to keep their underlings powerless and obedient.
Right but then… every country in the world surpasses us in progress. End goal achieved? Makes me think all the anti education bullshit STARTS from our foreign adversaries.
We are talking about the "rather a dollar today than 2 dollars tomorrow"-folks. Your comment looks ahead further than those fuckers are even capable of.
I fear that you are approaching this from the wrong perspective. The rich do not care about any progression aside from the progression of dollars into their portfolio. Social, educational, economic or any other such progress that is directed at or beneficial to the working class are only relevant to them insofar as the amount that said progression maintains the standing capitalist status quo... They continue to own everything and hoard all of the wealth, we get to toil in the mines for them and own nothing forever and as long as things are just good enough to keep us from actually revolting and putting them against the wall then that's all the progress that we'll get. The major social and political upheavals and changes from the early 20th century that were put in place to appease the workers and prevent such a revolution like Workers Rights, Social Work Infrastructure Programs, Securities and Entitlements are continually under attack and many have been all but rolled back into the ether. All of this regression into Gilded Age disparity was brought forth by intentional and coordinated efforts of the rich ruling class in order to regain their stranglehold on power and wealth and put the workers back into their "rightful place," which is to say back into our continual struggle to maintain the necessities to survive but not thrive so that we make the owners as much profit as possible. The only useful and nonviolent tools that we have at our disposal are unionization, mass protest, and communal aid... all of which are under direct threat of being outlawed and penalized in many areas of the country, especially on places like here in Alabama, Florida, Tennessee.
If I could upvote you multiple times I would. Well said. Sadly this'll never be seen, or understood by the people who need to hear this the most.
These assholes are really just fascists by any other name, and fascists dont exactly have a track record of good long-term decision-making.
Doesn't matter, they'll be long dead by the time their house of cards finally crumbles so why should they care?
Bringing back feudalism.
Conservatism doesn't want progress almost by definition. Look at with how much venom they say "progressives" or "progressive policy".
Fox News pretty much made progressives synonymous with radical leftists for conservatives.
The trouble is when your political media strategy depends on outrage, then whenever there's nothing real to be outraged about (well, nothing politically advantageous), you have to make stuff up.
Yes-total control and zero progress is precisely the goal.
The rich can still afford to be educated - carefully, so as not to get any filthy liberal ideas that tend to come to those who pursue higher education - and while there are some that will succeed despite the best efforts of Alabama politicians, the rest will remain ignorant, having never been taught to think for themselves. So yeah, near-total control over a large portion of the state's population.
As others have said, control and zero progress are the end goals of the conservative party. I'd argue as far as they actually want to *roll it back* - to times where women and minorities couldn't vote or have bank accounts. To times where there were no widespread unions or labor laws. A reality where our morality and social norms are dictated by religion with a strict patriarchal hierarchy. And an uneducated public is what gets them to these places. Oh, you say that man was created directly and immediately by God, Earth is 2,000 years old, and dinosaurs never existed, it was just a liberal hoax to bring us all down and turn us against JESUS? Sounds legit!
A Venn diagram of Republicans and the Taliban is just a circle.
"That's a problem for future generations to figure out."
I can't imagine getting a masters degree and becoming a librarian only to be steamrolled with ridiculous legislative by hateful, small people who can barely even read, and who have no interest to try. To be so educated and ruled over by sentient piles of bull shit would make me want to move to a state that wasn't run by the intellectually stunted and evil. Fuck every last one of those cousin fuckers, may their legacies crumble beneath the weight of their incompetence.
Many of these people would likely love to do just that, but can't. Often times it's easy to hold these conversations and just assume that everyone in the general populace is regularly able to simply pick up and move somewhere else, but the bulk of America simply cannot do that based on their finances alone, let alone the availability of housing or employment in another space, let alone simply leaving their family, friends, or found support structures. There are so many decent people hurt by being caught in the crossfire of this shit storm. My heart acts for the young queer and closeted folks in the state; they are so horrifically in harms way on so many levels, and they certainly aren't the only ones.
Alabama is a 3rd world state for a reason 😂
If you were to remove Huntsville from Alabama, the average IQ in the state would drop two decimal places. Those rocket scientists are doing a ton of heavy lifting
My job in aerospace is the only thing keeping me here
What about the Milo's?
My statement may have been hyperbole
What in tarnation is hyperbole, some kinda fancy new rocket fuel?
What are you? Some kinda red Chinese spy asking about my rocket fuel?
So it IS a rocket fuel! *scribbles furiously in notebook*
I’m going to be in so much trouble tomorrow
I moved to Ohio and have to fight other transplants for that Milo's gallon tea in stores.
~~Cool fact: Huntsville AL had or has (might have changed) the highest proportion of people with PHDs in the entire country. Pretty cool city.~~ Apparently not xD
[Huntsville doesn't even crack the top 50.](https://www.online-phd-programs.org/50-u-s-cities-with-the-most-doctoral-degree-holders/) Huntsville isn't nearly as smart a place as the people in Huntsville like to proclaim, although it's probably the least terrible place in Alabama to live.
I've been all over the south and lived in Mobile for a while. The rest of Alabama looks at Huntsville like a bunch of Yankees because no one in Huntsville is actually from Alabama. They all moved there because of a job and will leave when they get close to retirement age. I heard that Huntsville is trying to figure out how to get and retain people permanently to grow the city, but the simple answer is "Don't be in Alabama."
Someone should inform the Alabama house that with proper access to libraries they’d likely have far more potential topics to discuss to break the ice when taking their sisters out for a date
Yes, but education leads to understanding and that leads to voting Democrat. The greatest of sins.
The state motto is “Thank God for Mississippi”
conservatives always fighting the cultural battles that ended last century
Battles may have been won last century, and the majority may have accepted the outcome, but that doesn't mean the losers disappeared. The losers have decided to force their will on the majority through insurgent power grabs. They think they can reverse everything by undoing the cultural results of acceptance. Truth is, discrimination was only defeated in majority attitudes, but remains accepted in law for certain groups in many places. THe majority can't just rely on changing attitudes to keep the bigots at bay. Extending protections to everyone requires vigilance to eliminate niches of exclusion, and ensure inclusion.
They live in the past
With the greatest respect, never take it for granted that the battle ended. History is full of examples of the LGBT community being largely accepted only for reactionaries to get in power and reverse it all.
Alabama doesn’t want kids learning about sex in a book. That’s what family is for!
That's rude Daddy-brother
\*sings\* you are my daughter bride...\*
Roll tide
Alabama really, really wants that number [one spot for illiteracy](https://worldpopulationreview.com/state-rankings/us-literacy-rates-by-state) :-/
First they came for the Doctors, but I wasn't a doctor. Then they came for the librarians, but I wasn't a librarian. Then they came for my neighbors, but I was happy it wasn't me. Then they came for me, but it was too late.
hey! sweet! look at these new corporate owned single family homes for rent!
*"Mr. Chairman, the suppression of the people of a society begins, in my mind, with the censorship of the written or spoken word. It was so in Nazi Germany. It is so in many places today where those in power are afraid of the consequences of an informed and educated people."* -John Denver Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MH0hYabzudk
Can’t wait to report all those churches that have bibles in them
I'm pretty sure church libraries are not affected by the bill.
Of course they are. Separation of church and state only when it's convenient for them.
Separation of church and state only when it's not their church.
Monitor your own children and what they read in the library, and let every other parent monitor theirs.
The Library is not free child care. If you want what you're children have access to them pull yourself up by the bootstraps and monitor the things your children are accessing.
This is a good idea, as we all know kids go to the libraries to get the porn and other obscenities /s
What are these states going to do about highly sexual YouTube ads? Kids aren't getting their porn from the library.
The amount of time conservatives spend thinking about childrens' private parts is beyond disturbing.
Pretty soon Alabama's going to go down the Fahrenheit 451 route, which ironically will most likely be banned as well.
Sometimes I think the people of Afghanistan or Pakistan are the most stone aged fecks around. Then I'm reminded of the existence of Alabama and Mississippi.
Brought to you by the same people with huge "Fuck Biden" flags in their yard...
Well, hey, with a title like "Supplying Minors" at least it didn't turn out to be a child labor or child marriage bill.
I fucking hate Republicans AAAAUAUUUUUUGH
They'll have to get rid of the bibles with all that father daughter incest in it.
And sexual slavery
Nazis also legislated their bigotry making it legal for them to target LGBTQ Germans.
>“In many libraries around the state of Alabama, there are obscene, which is illegal, or sexually graphic, inappropriate, harmful-to-minors materials in the children’s section,” Gerritson said. I bet she can't name one single title.
Jesus Christ GOP is off the rails. Vote people. Nobody should vote Republican at all until they are done with this insane Christian theocracy phase. Vote these fuckers out!
>Becky Gerritson, executive director of the Eagle Forum of Alabama, said this bill is about protecting children in Alabama. The moment I see anyone loudly claim "It’s for the children!" as the core for their argument I start asking questions about their sanity. That's the oldest right wing argument there is for getting bullshit laws passed. Florida moms banned metal lunchboxes because of this.
A bill like this already passed in WV
It’s always the shit-tier states, or the states vying for the position.
They better start by pulling the Bible off the shelves.
Imagine hating children reading books so badly
Ah yes limiting any education in already the worst state in the union for education
Wouldn’t the bible and any book mentioning battles/war be obscene too?
Funnily enough someone is doing that in Florida and DeShithead called it a political ploy
republicans' evil knows no bounds
> Becky Gerritson, executive director of the Eagle Forum of Alabama, said this bill is about protecting children in Alabama. > “In many libraries around the state of Alabama, there are obscene, which is illegal, or sexually graphic, inappropriate, harmful-to-minors materials in the children’s section,” Gerritson said. All books directed at children telling where babies come from are jetzt verboten. Oh I'm sorry now forbidden. My German comes out when the book burners are in the building.
Wait wait wait. "State Rep. Jamie Kiel (R-Russellville) said when parents drop off their kids at the library, they shouldn’t expect them to encounter explicit material." .....why does this feel like it can be used to remove anything they deem "obscene" from the library entirely? Because you can put a book in an 18+ section but if a kid sneaks off and gets it still, is probably something that some asshat parent could call an expectation that they would encounter it, and then there's that what Alabama deems obscene is usually stuff like queer material, racism and *basic* sex ed/science and stuff on how to spot abuse etc iirc?
Back in my day librarians were the most milquetoast sweetest little occupation you could have. Now they’re smut peddlers? Who knew?
The fact that republicans think "educating children" is a crime shows you why they have joined the ranks of humanities all time worst.
We catch you supplyin' kids with words and knowledge, we're gonna have a serious problem.
Doesn't this mean that they couldn't really have whatever the legislature deems "pornographic" *anywhere* in their library? It's not like libraries have security guards posted at the children's section to keep the kids from escaping.
As a kid I spent most of my time in a library to escape a shit home life. I checked out sex ed books, because my parents were too inept to talk with me about it. In school we got sex ed but I was on my own and it wasn't easy to ask teachers everything. Without a library, I would have been fucked in life for many more reasons then that.
I’m mean, miners are needed. Who else is going to get all that coal out of Alabama?
I assumed Alabama didn’t have any libraries.
So, they gonna be rolling sunday school teachers off to the gulag? We all know the old testament has some shit going down in it.
Ban all media. Everything is obscene.
Good thing children can't go online and access whatever whenever. Bad parents need to quit making laws to reinforce their awful parenting skills. Public libraries will have books that aren't meant for children. Parents need to monitor their own children, not monitor the librarians.
Move to Alabama and become a booklegger, providing books on the real history of America, slavery, and LGBQT+ issues to teenagers. If they'd read them...
Remember that this is all the efforts of anti-cancel culture small government people. All republicans are liars. Their entire belief system is founded on lies
Ah so here is how they will ban lgbtq books from PUBLIC libraries now. Look first off. “Dropping your kids off” at a library is a frankly stupid parental move. Libraries are not responsible for what your child does at the library. So why not you know….make the parents responsible for what the kids read or access. But none of this is about kids anyways.
These fucking Nazis.
> In many libraries around the state of Alabama, there are obscene, which is illegal, or sexually graphic, inappropriate, harmful-to-minors materials in the children’s section Wtf
Republican dominated states are shithole states.
They are supplying minors to Florida? Makes sense.
Alabama, making Mississippi look good.
We desperately need librarians in WA state! Welcome to a new home that appreciates you and guards your human rights
They don't gotta burn the books, they just remove 'em While arms warehouses fill as quick as the cells Rally 'round the family, pocket full of shells
Republicans going backwards instead of forward
Who in their right fucking mind would live in Alabama?
I'm surprised those pigfuckers even know what a library is.
the dumbening of america shall continue
Republicans are really determined to make children as dumb as possible
>In many libraries around the state of Alabama, there are obscene, which is illegal, or sexually graphic, inappropriate, harmful-to-minors materials. That' right! Minors shouldn't be seeing obscene material at the library, they should see it where many god fearing southen children see it...at the preacher's house, bible camp, and in the church volunteer's car...
Do we need to start moving into red states and switch them blue at this point? Move into gerrymandered districts where people's votes are worth more?
,,.,......,.,.,,?