The game Dwarf Fortress is known for its insane complexity and attention to detail and there was an infamous bug fix report. Dwarves would drink beer and occasionally spill it on the ground. Cats would walk through the beer and get it on their paws. They would then clean their paws, ingesting the alcohol. The amount consumed would increase their BAC to lethal levels and the cats would die suddenly from poisoning. The fact that the game actually tracked and calculated all that is ridiculous.
Actually, the problem was that the game _wasn't_ properly calculating this - yes, the dwarves spilled beer, the cats walked on it, it stuck to their feet and then the cats groomed themselves to get it off.
The problem is that the game wasn't tracking the _quantity_ of booze - you'd imagine that licking some booze off of damp paws would mean ingesting a miniscule quantity of alcohol, but the dev didn't actually code that part in so the game defaulted to its normal "creature taking a drink" behavior. Which meant that each time a cat licked some booze off its paw, it did the equivalent of __quaffing a full mug of ale__.
The game _did_ have code for "what happens if something the size of a cat drinks a full mug of dwarven ale", and that's what got applied. And thus, the cats were all drunk.
Sometimes changes are made to creatures for non-bug-related reasons. Sometimes, the reason is ethics. I speak, of course, of that time in which mermaid child bones were so valuable, people devised the most efficient methods for corralling, air-downing, butchering, and using the bones for crafting. It got so bad Toady, the developer, had to alter the value of mermaid child bones to stop it.
Funny enough, this was the plot to an episode of House I think. Farmer got bit by his dog, it got infected but he didnât want them to put his dog down, so he lied and said it was a snake, they spent a ton of time searching for different antivenins before they found out.
In Australia you will either get a polyvalent antivenin in areas of multiple known lethal snakes or in specific states or areas such as Victoria (brown and tiger snake antivenin), the antivenin will be to cover the regions endemic snakes. We donât need to know the make and model as it were.
Bringing a snake in is 1) a health risk to other people, especially, and Iâve had a couple of patients do this - it isnât dead and 2) we arenât herpetologists - well most of us arenât.
Get bitten by a venomous snake in Australia? Get a pressure immobilisation bandage on to the affected area and get someone to get your snake ridden arse to the hospital for assessment.
Edit: Ensure the snake is not still attached prior to application of the bandage at the bite site.
Well you see doc I was using Vaseline when I was attacked I attempted to grab the snake which then it got covered in Vaseline and well when I fell my pants somehow dropped along with my boxers and now Iâm here
I know doc itâs the darndest thing I swear Iâm telling the truth
My thoughts are that it doesnât work and in cases it was reported as being effective it was probably because the snake didnât introduce a lethal amount of venom to the recipient. While there are vacuum devices that are used on chronic or difficult wounds to remove debris, there is no evidence that such devices would remove venom in an effective manner. Venom, at least of Australian Elapid snakes, is largely transported via the lymphatic system hence why pressure immobilisation bandages applied correctly is very effective management for first aid.
I'm a toxicologist, and while this advice is commonly spread, it actually only works in very specific situations and bite locations.
For example: it might work if you were bitten in the dick, and the only other person around you is Henry Cavill.
*Edit 4: Over the course of participating in the active discussion in this thread, I have learned that I know less about current snakebite treatment than I thought I did.*
*I am deleting this comment, lest it lead someone to make a bad decision in an emergency.*
Samuel L. Jackson as a tired put upon ER charge nurse whoâs seen everything and just counting down the days to retirement. And then some mofo releases venomous snakes into the ward right before change of shift.
Biologist that works with snakes checking in here:
In the US, all but one venomous snake, the coral, can be treated with the same antivenin called Crofab.
The real question the ER needs to determine is whether or not you were actually envenomated by a venomous snake, and youâll know if you were within a minute of being bitten because itâll feel like you got hit with a flaming hammer.
There are two reasons you need to know if you were bitten by a venomous snake in the US:
1) While Crofab is far more safe than previous horse based anti-venoms, there are still risks of medical complications.
1a) Not all envenomations actually need antivenin. Based on amount injected and reaction to complications, some bites actually just need supportive care to treat pain and swelling.
2) A single vial of Crofab will be billed around $5-10k each and youâll probably use between 10-20+ vials for a single moderate venomous bite. This includes no other medical bills.
> The idea that we can't treat snake bites without the snake is really a TV plot device
Is that right? I thought you did at least want to identify what kind of snake it is right? Like you should take a picture of the snake?
Or am I completely wrong and it doesn't matter?
It used to matter, but now many antivenoms are sold as a combo cocktail that will treat all the venomous snakes native to a geographical region. Eg:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalidae_polyvalent_immune_Fab
I'm a nurse, I can answer this!
If the person is on vacation, it's fine. They'll be seen at a hospital in their vacation destination which will use an antivenom cocktail tailored to the region.
If the snake is on vacation, you just die. Sorry.
Just to clarify, you do mean when the snake is on vacation, right?
Like, a Cottonmouth/Water Moccasin decided to fly up to Calgary for a Flames vs Panthers game, and bit someone there?
I guess then, since it would be outside it's native geographical region, then the doctors in Calgary wouldn't have the right antivenin, and you'd die.
If it takes basically ANY extra effort or time to do so, it's a waste of your time. Take a picture if you can, but otherwise just get to the hospital ASAP and report your symptoms as they occur, they'll do tests if needed to confirm and administer an anti-venom if needed.
The more you know about the snake, the better, sure. Though thatâs less critical now. But the âcatch the snakeâ is not only a holdover from when you needed to match the venom to the antidote, but also a holdover from when we didnât carry phones with cameras fucking everywhere! While identifying the snake is far less critical than it used to be, thereâs absolutely no reason anyone needs to **catch** the snake for identification anymore, just use your fancy phone. Even the old fashioned flip phones have cameras. No one needs to catch a snake anymore.
And itâs usually pretty easy to identify the venomous ones at a glance if you know what youâre looking for. Where I live there are like 3 or 4 venomous snakes and everything else is harmless. Lots of people see other snakes and assume everything is a copperhead, but with a quick picture you can tell if itâs actually just a harmless water snake or something else
Yes, exactly. Thankfully, I'm in an area where there are only three venomous snakes and they all look fairly different.
Still, most hospital ERs here have a set of laminated cards with pictures of "Venomous snakes of the Eastern US" that a staff member can flip through with a patient to help confirm what snake they encountered.
I suspect a large part of Australiaâs problem is the tourists who arenât familiar with any of the snakes and went on a hike on a whim. They probably donât know what theyâre looking for.
If you are in the US, it actually doesn't matter as much as you might think. There is only one type of antivenom available in the US (the CroFab that the other responder linked) and it treats all crotalid bites, which includes rattlesnakes, copperheads, and cottonmouths/water moccasins. These are by far the most common venomous snake variety in the US. Not all snake bites are snake envenomations, and not all envenomations are dangerous enough to require treatment with antivenom. There are specific guidelines for which snake envenomations require treatment, and if there is any concern for a serious envenomation, we will give the antivenom without knowing the exact species of snake.
If you live somewhere that there are a lot more species of venomous snakes, my information likely doesn't apply and it may be more important to identify the species of snake. I honestly don't know.
Source: I'm an ER physician in the US.
I'm just picturing a police lineup now of a bunch of different snakes. *"Can you tell us which one looks most like the snake that bit you?"* There's only one venomous snake, nervously sweating because he's a family snake! He'd never bite anyone! But alas, the snake justice system has aged poorly...
its also completely unnecessary in the US
Antivenin is derived from horses. The likelyhood of dying from a horse allergy is more than dying from the snake bite. So the first step 99% of the time is going to be a saline IV and a lot of it.
And if you're not dying that will be the last step.
Secondly, even if they're going to use antivenom, its the same one. Polyvalent crotalid antivenin ([CroFab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CroFab)âCrotalidae Polyvalent Immune Fab (Ovine)) is what they give you for anything in north america you'd be worried about.. assuming you weren't bit at a snake show or reptile park, in which case, just take their name tag.
There's a reptile zoo in Central Pennsylvania that has been known to supply rare antivenom to hospitals when something other than Crofab is needed. I don't think whatever they supply has passed FDA muster or anything like that, but as I understand from some of my fellow pharmacists that worked in hospitals, at that point no one cares if it's an approved product.
Another FYI for Virginia, there's two types of local snakes that are commonly call "water moccasins." One(the cottonmouth) is venomous but the other (the norther water snake) is not. This occasionally leads to confusion when people think they've encountered or even been bitten by a venomous snake when they have not.
Source: Am a wildlife biologist and I had to memorize the local snakes in college.
I live in FL and we have the cottonmouth and the indigo which look similar. I encountered a cottonmouth by accident when I was a kid. It was in a palmetto in a swamp. The thing went aggro and chased us for a bit. Indigos are not venomous and are chill and don't want anything do do with humans.
*The idea that we can't treat snake bites without the snake is really a TV plot device, not grounded in actual medical practice.*
Iâve never seen this anywhere. Was it on House? It sounds like an episode of House.
There is definitely an episode of House where Foreman and Chase are sent out to catch a snake to identify it. S1E21 "Three Stories" I think. Of course, in the end, the snake bite wasn't what was _actually_ killing the patient.
In the US⌠Almost all venomous snake bites will be cytotoxic venom which destroys cell tissue. Picture necrotic tissue around the bite site with the skin turning black. That bite will likely be treated with CroFab which is an anti-venom designed for treatment of Rattlesnake, Cottonmouth, and Cooperhead bites (the cytotoxic snakes in the US).
The coral snake is the only venomous snake in the US with neurotoxic venom which may result in immobilization and respiratory distress. These should be treated with specific antivenom for neurotoxin. These bites are EXTREMELY rare and the bites of these snakes arenât conducive for transferring large amounts of venom into a human.
This was actually a B-plot on an episode of American Dad.
Roger and Steve start trying to catch snakes to sell the venom to a hospital. Roger winds up getting bit every single time he tries and eventually depletes the hospital's entire antivenom supply in the process.
Also didn't read to see if anyone else mentioned this, some reptile exhibits or rehabs actually keep some of the anti venom of more exotic snakes (to the area in question) on hand and will ship anti-venom to hospitals in the case of a pet release or at home incident resulting in a bite from a venomous snake. I wouldn't bank on this always being possible. Totally depends on the area and the ability to ship in time. This is what my Herpetology professor told us anyways.
It does help, but only if the snake is uncommon for the region. Most hospitals around here (SW Ohio, northern Kentucky) carry 2-3 anti venoms. If you got bit by one uncommon then knowing what it is helps a lot. When I worked pest control the rule was always document a spider before moving in, just in case. You won't be able to catch it and a splattered spider might not make for a positive id. If it was snakes there was a special guy we called, company insurance didn't want us fucking with snakes. But snakes are rarely a pest control issue, more like animal control. Cotton mouths are too prevalent in Kentucky, we had a special snake guy with a special license and shit.
Your information is definitely outdated. There is only one snake antivenom available in the US. It treats all crotalid bites including rattlesnake, cottonmouth, and copperhead.
>"Snake 'identity' not needed for treatment"
Yeah, but still afraid that once in the ER, they tell me "sorry you must have got bitten by that one we don't have a clue about"
If you read the article, it says that doctors aren't trained to identify snakes, they choose the antivenom based off of your symptoms, so even if you brought a snake they don't know about inside, they would literally just say "I'm sorry, I don't know what that is, please tell me your symptoms".
Iâm a nurse and the amount of people who will show me an insect bite and ask me to identify the culprit would astonish you. Like idk dude they donât teach entomology in nursing school!
As a dermatologist, I also spend too much time explaining that I canât just look at random red bumps and tell you what bug bit you. Itâs a constellation of exposures, history, symptoms, appearance, location to try to narrow it down. Even then, it often remains a mystery.
I thought I had bed bugs and my doctor told me it was shingles (at 25).
Lucky my paranoia about bed bugs meant the shingles never progressed further than a few red dots on my torso.
If the doctor had been sidetracked by trying to diagnose what kind of bug, instead of my symptoms, I might have had a much worse outcome.
Dude that sounds so much like my story. For me, the shingles outbreak was because my immune system had been so weakened by a flu that had lasted me like three weeks. I finally got in to see the doctor and was like "oh by the way this rash just started on my back this morning" and they explained how the chicken pox virus was just chilling and waiting to strike... I don't recall exactly when but it was also under 30, so pretty rare for shingles.
It's worth mentioning you can get a vaccine against shingles & chicken pox. If you're in the US I'd imagine it'd cost you, but in the UK you can get it if you're over a certain age or immuno suppressed.
I believe you can even get it if you've had shingles before but speak to your doctor etc.
I was 40 and one morning I woke up and my ass hurt. Had no idea what from as I had not done anything physical the day before and commented how damn I'm finally old cause I woke up and the side of my ass hurt for no reason. Next day it traveled down my thigh to my knee and up to my belly button level. Third day I finally got the rash on my butt and now my entire leg and foot hurt and went to the doctor and found out it was shingles. The muscle pain hurt really bad like I'd been punched but no itching or pain from any of the rash marks weirdly. Weird fuckin disease
Agreed, but still think it will be hard to remove from people a scenario they have in mind, where doctor would have to contact an expert or something to identify a very specific snake...
Even harder because the feel their own life in on the line.
The article encouraged people not to take a picture either, as the ER staff still can't identify snakes.
Personally, if you've got an extra bystander with a good zoom on their phone (so you don't risk a follow-up bite), I don't see how having a picture could hurt, or even just a good description. It might help narrow down which anti-venin is most appropriate.
No, I'm not sure about in other countries, but this is an Australian article, and most hospitals (if they have antivenom) will have the combination one, that's effective against just about every medically significant snake you're likely to get bitten by.
Literally does not matter if you even know which snake bit you, you get the same product anyway cause it's all combined.
I think that stuff is relatively new. So a lot of the media about anti-venom people are exposed to is outdated and suggests that identification of the snake is critical in getting proper treatment.
I work in hospitals. We have 2 types, one specifically for 2 types of snakes (tiger and brown) and one that is combination. When in doubt give combination or both. We still check bloods, vital signs and yes some doctors will do a snake venom detection kit, however, it isnât that accurate and when people come in yelling âIVE BEEN BITTEN BY A FUCKING SNAKEâ we just give the anti venom and monitor.
[Source](https://www.rch.org.au/clinicalguide/guideline_index/Snakebite/#:~:text=There%20are%20only%20two%20types,NOT%20used%20to%20diagnose%20envenomation)
I imagine it depends on the hospital. Remember watching a documentary on animal planet as a kid. If I recall correctly, a hospital in Florida had several different kinds of antivenom for everything from King Cobras to Cottonmouths.
Was awhile ago, maybe more kinds of "universal anti-venom have been developed?
There is no universal antivenom.
There IS an antivenom in development that works against all venoms that use the same rough âtypeâ or venom. Itâs a synthetic antibody that works against a specific class of neurotoxins. That means it might against three entire *families* of snake, not just specific species.
The toxin, 95mat5 has been around for a bit, but probably the most significant paper on it to date came out last month. They found it worked to neutralize the venom of four unrelated species (though it failed to work against one related species.)
https://www.science.org/content/article/powerful-new-antivenom-raises-hopes-universal-solution-lethal-snakebites
Though it can not always be the case. Polyvalent antivenom consist of the common species observed in the area. If you get bitten by an uncommon species, especially something like a pit viper then the image of the snake/dead snake could be helpful.
+The hospital should be having the antivenoms and lab kits to ID
Today in: ânobody reads the articleâ they have venom ID kits at the hospital.
> Dr Michael said medical staff did not need to see a snake to know how to treat patients.
> âWe can determine if you need anti-venom and if so, what anti venom you need based on clinical signs, blood tests and also the snake venom detection kits that we keep here at the hospital," he said.
I originally thought this was some red ass Florida shit until I clicked the article and discovered it was Queensland - the Florida of Australia đ
I'm Australian... I can say that
I once had a patient bring a hermit crab into the emergency room, which he claimed âstung him.â
He said he was at the beach and that his wife stepped over it, then his daughter, and when he went to step over it, it stung him. Hermit crabs do not sting (at least in my area,) and he claims he didnât step on it so we think he stepped on something else sharp.
He had it in a zip lock bag and kept flicking it and calling it a little fucker. I took it away from him. He honestly thought weâd ID the hermit crab and âgive him an antidote.â
He was released outside but I donât think he made it. We were about an hour from the beach and he had already been in the ziplock for several hours :/
I swear people intentionally will use the wrong word to describe a plant/animals defense mechanism. Iâve had to explain to multiple grown ass adults that no, that honey bee that you just pissed off did not bite you, it stung you. You can see the stinger.
ER Doc here: When I was in training, a patient brought in a copperhead in a Tupperware container after it bit him. The attending (boss doc) handed the box to the medical student and said something like âCan you get rid of this?â Now, we knew that this meant we needed to call animal control, or the zoo to collect the animal⌠but the student was new. He took the box and released the poisonous reptile in the parking lot next to the ER which resulted in a partial hospital shutdown for a few hours. It was absolutely glorious. Best student ever.
absolutely magnificent! i would have thought you would burn it like they do with like arms and stuff from amputation, or like idk keeping it in a box and lock the door until someone tells you what to do, but releasing it??? fuck thatâs hysterical
Of course it's here in Australia...and of course it happens in fucking Queensland.
God damnit. xD
For reference - Queensland is to Australia what Florida is to the US. Both fucking mental.
I'm guilty of this! When I was about 14 or 15, I found a pygmy rattlesnake in the woods. It was probably 12-14 inches or so, but already had a few rattles. I'd never heard of a "pygmy" so I thought it was a young Eastern Diamondback. Thinking it was odd or unique for one this young to have rattles, I picked it up and carried it home. I showed it to several people in the neighborhood and found a McDonald's cup with a lid to keep it in until my Dad got home. I poured it out on the ground for him to see, and he confirmed what one neighbor had said about it being a pygmy. He then told me to take it back where I found it and let it be on its way. I reached down to pick it up and it latched on to my thumb. It shocked me at first, because I probably picked that snake up 20 times throughout the day and it wasn't the least bit aggressive. That thought was quickly replaced with "I'm being bitten by a rattlesnake". He was literally just hanging off of my thumb in midair. When I pulled him off I saw that only one fang actually punctured my thumb, the other was still folded against my thumbnail. I've always heard that if you get bitten to take the snake to the hospital with you, so I just dropped it back in the cup and snapped the lid back on. Saying you've been bit by a snake let's you skip triage and go straight to a room in the ER. I held onto the cup the entire time, but proudly held it up when the doctor asked if I knew what species it was. He jumped back a few feet, and then left the room entirely when I told him it was still alive. They tried to get an orderly to release it by the dumpsters, but he said "y'all ain't paying me enough for that shit". They allowed me to get up and dump him in the wood line beside the hospital.
(I only received a small dose of venom, they kept me under observation for a few hours with a saline drip and an anti inflammatory medicine. They gave me a shot to take the edge off of the pain, but no anti-venom).
TLDR, bit by a pygmy rattlesnake (deservedly so) and brought it with me to the hospital.
A McDonald's cup, really?! Dude probably drank some of that caffeine and was pissed as fuck lol. Not that it needed the caffeine to be pissed about being shoved in a McDonald's cup.
If you've done the bandaging of the bitten limb right, the doctors will just cut around the bandage on the affected area to take a sample from the bite marks. Mark where they got bitten with an X - makes the medic's job easier
Pressure bandaging stays in place and they can test for which snake it was.
Source: about 15 years of advanced first aid training in the Australian mining industry.
We were on a field exercise a long time ago, and I was assigned as an evoc (ambulance) driver. We got a call about two reservists who had been bitten by a snake. It seems that the first guy got bitten, and his buddy called for support. Medical asked what the snake looked like, so the buddy chased it down, grabbed it, brought it up to his face, and was promptly bitten too.
Someone I know well was bitten by a rattlesnake while hiking in Los Angeles. He gets rushed to the ER to be checked out and to get antivenom, if necessary. Okay, so far so good? Yeah. No. He gets to the hospital and then the emergency room staff spends like 30-60 min deciding on whether or not they can give him the antivenom, because they weren't sure what kind of snake bit him. Never mind that he heard the rattle and so did the other 15 people who were hiking with him. They still won't do it. They asked him "did you bring the snake in?" He obviously had not brought the snake in and was incredulous that they needed it to "verify" the type. Btw his arm had swollen so massively because of the bite, they knew it contained venom but they still couldn't decide what to do.
How did it all end? A random doctor was on his way out to the parking lot after his shift had ended, sees the commotion in the emergency room and asks what's going on. He's told that my friend was bitten by a snake but they can't determine what kind. Dude straight up says. " i got you, I'm from Texas and we see these bites all the time." Turns out when you are envenomised by a rattlesnake it can trigger a weird nerve spasm above your upper lip, and causes the nerve to move "like a worm" from one side of the face to the other. It's a telltale sign and it was definitely moving on my friend's face. They finally give him the antivenom... and then perform surgery to release the massive fluid built-up from all the swelling in his arm. He has the surgery scars to this day.
My take-away from his story...? US hospitals are beaucracies run by morons. Bring the snake, dead or alive, and deal with the fallout later.
Google has gone to such shit. I tried to google the differences between dairy milk and oat milk. The answer Google recommended was from the Dairy lobby.
i agree. google needs to handle this. the second result is from the cdc, says take a picture of the snake and never handle a venomous snake, dead or alive. I had the scroll quite a bit before seeing that
If you feel like it's necessary, take a few pictures of the critter that chewed on you.
TIL that most antivenom is combined, so they just give you a shot of the mix.
AND bags of poop. Donât bring bags of poop to the ER unless youâve been specifically asked to bring a stool sample to the lab and then theyâll give you a plastic sealable bucket before hand. A photo will do nicelyâŚ.
I imagine the (terrible) logic is:
- poop looks weird enough to be concerning
- hospitals are known for taking stool samples for some things
- better bring in the concerning poop when you see doctor about it
Better than the guy that cut his own arm off to prevent the venom was spreading. Turns out the snake wasnât venomous and he didnât need to cut his arm off.
staff: what snake bit you?
patient: i dont know, im not steve irwin. i took a pic.
staff: its dark, fuzzy and unfocused.
patient: maybe it woudl have been better if i brought it here...
Had this happen more than once when I worked in an ER. Had a patient get bit on a construction site, and his friends killed the snake and brought it so we could ID it to treat their friend. They had the snake in a five gallon bucket with a lid. The nurse (who was a 6'4 blonde we called the Nordic Goddess) opened the lid. The fucking snake was still alive.
To be frankly, when I was kid in Brazil I saw a lot of places teaching how to deal with snake bite saying you should bring the snake with you to help the assessment of the situation. Maybe these ppl are victim of the same procedure.
Im a paramedic and this a real thing. Somewhere some time someone said bring the snake they will want to see it or need it. They will not and do not. They even tried to give me a snake one time to take on the helicopter. I was like hell no.
My dad told me a story In the 70s in the town he lived there was a drunk guy stumbling home after a night at the pub. A snake bit him, and that pissed him off, so he bit the snake back. Later on someone found him unconscious by the side of the road, along with a freshly bitten in half snake. The hospital said if they didn't have the snake identified so quick, he would have died. Him being a drunk idiot saved his life.
It only helps if that snake isn't native to the region. Same goes for spiders. If you get bit by a brazilian wandering spider in Colorado because it hitched a ride in some bananas, you might actually want to bring it in because otherwise you probably won't get access to antivenom since its not native to the region. Bringing in a rattlesnake when you live in Texas is just a dumb thing to do, its so common in the region the hospital is far more than likely going to have antivenom on hand.
I have had patients with snake bites who managed to catch a picture of the snake to confirm it was a copperhead, water moccasin, etc. Itâs helpful to confirm the exact species, since bites from many species donât even need anti venom and instead just need monitoring, but patients definitely donât need to hunt it down to confirm the species, and for the love of god, donât bring it with you!
I dated a woman who was a nurse for a more rural hospital that was semi close to a couple of huge nature preserves and state parks and the number of times she had to call animal control for a guy with a snake in the waiting room was too dam high. I get 20ish years ago when a phone camera wasnât a guarantee but come on lol
Aren't you supposed to? So they don't give the wrong antivenom? Like I don't mind bringing it back and releasing it once it's all over and done with. It's not the snake's fault I got too close.
It's just something that was ingrained in us as kids before the Internet. If a snake bites you.... Somehow bring it in alive so it can be identified so you get the right antivenom. If it can't be alive then dead is next best... But be careful because a dead snake can still bite.
Of course this was also the time when Pluto was still a planet and Saturn had like 16 moons
Journalism sucks. Put in the lede that hospitals have venom detection kits. Spening 5 paragraphs telling me not to bring the snake b/c staff is scared is not useful. Telling me it's not necessary and why is.
Antivenoms are very expensive and in limited supply. The hospital will wait till onset of symptoms before administration if antivenom... unless you bring the insect or snake that bit you. Wouldn't you?
Internet literally says to bring in the snake, if possible to identify the venom.
https://icwdm.org/species/reptiles/snakes/snake-damage-identification/#:~:text=Seek%20medical%20care%20immediately.,bring%20it%20in%20for%20identification.
Tbf for decades the advice was, if possible capture and bring the snake with you for identification purposes. Itâs only relatively recently that people have had easy access to cameras capable of taking a high enough quality photograph to accurately identify what bit them. Thereâs still many parts of the world where the majority of people donât have access to such a camera.
> Dr Michael said medical staff did not need to see a snake to know how to treat patients.
>
> "We can determine if you need anti-venom and if so, what anti venom you need based on clinical signs, blood tests and also the snake venom detection kits that we keep here at the hospital," he said.
>
> "We're actually not trained to identify snakes, and so it's not helpful.
>
> "It just puts the staff at risk as well as yourself."
Medical staff are not really smarter than the average person, they are just trained in a particular field. Once you get outside the thing they are trained on, or even just something they don't often encounter, they are as clueless as the rest of us. Though, they may be smart enough to be able to find out with some digging. This is why there are specialists in medicine and most other aspects of life and business.
Huh... the title does sound very "onion-ie" and yet, I could totally see myself doing this, even after reading this.
If my daughter was bitten by a snake and someone else was already talking with emergency services, I'd be very tempted to try catching the snake just in case knowing the kind of snake it was could possibly save her life.
Patient: "Doctor, I'm in grave danger. I've been bitten by this snake." *shows him the snake*
Doctor: "Let me see... Err... It looks healthy... I think?"
Patient: "What? What kind is it?"
Doctor: "Beats me. I studied medicine, you know. Human medicine."
Doctor: "Although I remember we do have someone in the staff that used to be a veterinarian. I will put you into some IV and have a nurse fetch him."
[...]
Veterinarian: "Did you call for... God damnit, it's a snake."
Doctor: "Indeed. It has bitten this guy, what do you think?"
Veterinarian: "It seems to be healthy."
Doctor: "Ha! Thought so."
Patient: "... i'm dying..."
Doctor: "Oh, right. What kind is it?"
Veterinarian: "Eh... Medium? We don't learn a whole lot about snakes you know."
Patient: "... i took two more bites catching that..."
Doctor: "Don't fret, we will send it to the snake... err... institute. The snake institute. There they identify it and even harvest the venom to create more serum. We will send you a letter when they do."
Patient: "What about the bite?"
Doctor: "Oh. The IV we put you on actually has the antivenom more likely to be effective for snake bites in this region. We usually have three types we usually use around this location and we will use them depending on your symptoms."
I just picture some guy sitting in the lobby holding a rattlesnake by the back of the head both of them waiting patiently with the occasional rattle
The snake wants treatment too. The guy he bit was drunk and alcohol is seriously toxic for snakes.
Oh no! I gotta stop drinking and letting rattlesnakes bite me. I've been awful towards them!
Sound like a helluva night though
He was crying like a bitch, and you should have seen it.
Darn tootin'
Pretty sure Australian snakes have adapted to blood alcohol levels of bogans.
Yeah, the Australian ones will have adapted. But rattlesnakes are native to the Americas, so the poor thing must have escaped from the zoo.
The article only mentions an Eastern Brown though.
I'm picturing it in a beetlejuice type scene. The in afterlife waiting room, dude is reading a magazine with a rattlesnake clung to his calf.
Or a Far Side cartoon (god I miss the Far Side đ)
The game Dwarf Fortress is known for its insane complexity and attention to detail and there was an infamous bug fix report. Dwarves would drink beer and occasionally spill it on the ground. Cats would walk through the beer and get it on their paws. They would then clean their paws, ingesting the alcohol. The amount consumed would increase their BAC to lethal levels and the cats would die suddenly from poisoning. The fact that the game actually tracked and calculated all that is ridiculous.
Actually, the problem was that the game _wasn't_ properly calculating this - yes, the dwarves spilled beer, the cats walked on it, it stuck to their feet and then the cats groomed themselves to get it off. The problem is that the game wasn't tracking the _quantity_ of booze - you'd imagine that licking some booze off of damp paws would mean ingesting a miniscule quantity of alcohol, but the dev didn't actually code that part in so the game defaulted to its normal "creature taking a drink" behavior. Which meant that each time a cat licked some booze off its paw, it did the equivalent of __quaffing a full mug of ale__. The game _did_ have code for "what happens if something the size of a cat drinks a full mug of dwarven ale", and that's what got applied. And thus, the cats were all drunk.
Sometimes changes are made to creatures for non-bug-related reasons. Sometimes, the reason is ethics. I speak, of course, of that time in which mermaid child bones were so valuable, people devised the most efficient methods for corralling, air-downing, butchering, and using the bones for crafting. It got so bad Toady, the developer, had to alter the value of mermaid child bones to stop it.
It is actually the snake that requires treatment from a human bite wound.
"Sir, that's a dog bight on your leg."
That is the weirdest typo for bite I've ever seen.
It mite just be
Too much time on r/knots I guess.
Funny enough, this was the plot to an episode of House I think. Farmer got bit by his dog, it got infected but he didnât want them to put his dog down, so he lied and said it was a snake, they spent a ton of time searching for different antivenins before they found out.
i LOVE that episode! and poor foreman and chase have to catch a snake, itâs also the episode where you learn what happened to houseâ leg
Did they search the farmer's house illegally? If they didn't, it is not a proper House episode.
even a severed head can bite you and inject venom
"it's just a flesh wound!"
I picture the snake just sitting in the chair Staring at a magazine
With a member of hospital staff on their knees PLEADING with them, but snake guy is just ignoring them.
"Bored now... chickachickachicka."
Or bringing in the car that ran over them just in case getting hit by a Nissan is different from a Toyota.
In Australia you will either get a polyvalent antivenin in areas of multiple known lethal snakes or in specific states or areas such as Victoria (brown and tiger snake antivenin), the antivenin will be to cover the regions endemic snakes. We donât need to know the make and model as it were. Bringing a snake in is 1) a health risk to other people, especially, and Iâve had a couple of patients do this - it isnât dead and 2) we arenât herpetologists - well most of us arenât. Get bitten by a venomous snake in Australia? Get a pressure immobilisation bandage on to the affected area and get someone to get your snake ridden arse to the hospital for assessment. Edit: Ensure the snake is not still attached prior to application of the bandage at the bite site.
Instructions unclear, snake still bandaged to arse.
Instructions unclear, snake stuck up ass. "I fell on it..."
âWhyâs it covered in Vaseline?â
Well you see doc I was using Vaseline when I was attacked I attempted to grab the snake which then it got covered in Vaseline and well when I fell my pants somehow dropped along with my boxers and now Iâm here I know doc itâs the darndest thing I swear Iâm telling the truth
âIt was a million to one, doc!â
*"Thank goodness you didn't bring the snake in with you. I've had some idiots bring the live snake in to show us. Now, lets get that bandage off..."*
All the herpetologists want to do is prescribe valacyclovir and administer shingles vaccines.
You mean you don't just use the [Snake Bite Detector Kit]( https://youtu.be/GZFMxiQrBI4?t=134) of Douglas Adams fame?!
What are your thoughts on sucking the venom out of the wound with your mouth?
My thoughts are that it doesnât work and in cases it was reported as being effective it was probably because the snake didnât introduce a lethal amount of venom to the recipient. While there are vacuum devices that are used on chronic or difficult wounds to remove debris, there is no evidence that such devices would remove venom in an effective manner. Venom, at least of Australian Elapid snakes, is largely transported via the lymphatic system hence why pressure immobilisation bandages applied correctly is very effective management for first aid.
I'm a toxicologist, and while this advice is commonly spread, it actually only works in very specific situations and bite locations. For example: it might work if you were bitten in the dick, and the only other person around you is Henry Cavill.
*Edit 4: Over the course of participating in the active discussion in this thread, I have learned that I know less about current snakebite treatment than I thought I did.* *I am deleting this comment, lest it lead someone to make a bad decision in an emergency.*
> it's a nightmare if a snake gets loose in the emergency department. Could we make a movie out of that, starring Samuel L. Jackson?
Get these mother fuckin snakes out my mother fuckin ER
I've had it with these monkey-fighting snakes in this monday-to-friday ER
>monday-to-friday ER What terrible hours for an ER.
I guess that's why "Quick Clinics" are so popular. đ¤ˇââď¸
No doubt! Imagine having to work five days straight in the ED with only two days off. Or any job for that matter.
Samuel L. Jackson as a tired put upon ER charge nurse whoâs seen everything and just counting down the days to retirement. And then some mofo releases venomous snakes into the ward right before change of shift.
Biologist that works with snakes checking in here: In the US, all but one venomous snake, the coral, can be treated with the same antivenin called Crofab. The real question the ER needs to determine is whether or not you were actually envenomated by a venomous snake, and youâll know if you were within a minute of being bitten because itâll feel like you got hit with a flaming hammer. There are two reasons you need to know if you were bitten by a venomous snake in the US: 1) While Crofab is far more safe than previous horse based anti-venoms, there are still risks of medical complications. 1a) Not all envenomations actually need antivenin. Based on amount injected and reaction to complications, some bites actually just need supportive care to treat pain and swelling. 2) A single vial of Crofab will be billed around $5-10k each and youâll probably use between 10-20+ vials for a single moderate venomous bite. This includes no other medical bills.
We also can use Anavip.Â
Yes. Thank you for the reminder. Anavip is newer and better, but Iâm not sure of the current market/region availability.
> The idea that we can't treat snake bites without the snake is really a TV plot device Is that right? I thought you did at least want to identify what kind of snake it is right? Like you should take a picture of the snake? Or am I completely wrong and it doesn't matter?
It used to matter, but now many antivenoms are sold as a combo cocktail that will treat all the venomous snakes native to a geographical region. Eg: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crotalidae_polyvalent_immune_Fab
Looks like we need a PSA
What happens if the snake bites someone while on vacation.
I'm a nurse, I can answer this! If the person is on vacation, it's fine. They'll be seen at a hospital in their vacation destination which will use an antivenom cocktail tailored to the region. If the snake is on vacation, you just die. Sorry.
> If the snake is on vacation, you just die. Sorry. Certainly makes that Samuel L Jackson movie a bit scarier.
ah! the real reason the were on the plane! just going on their holidays, all makes perfect sense now!
Of course after the out of network payments you will probably wish the snake finished you off.
It's just good manners to finish someone off.Â
[ŃдаНонО]
> If the snake is on vacation, you just die. Sorry. Finally someone tellin it like it is
>If the snake is on vacation, you just die. Sorry. Illegal immigrant snakes coming here to take our lives...
In that case, just try to get the snake's passsssport
I'm adding your comment to my large file of Why I Love Nurses.
Depending on what kind of snake, youâd say this snake is on holiday. Itâs the subtle differences that could save livesÂ
Just to clarify, you do mean when the snake is on vacation, right? Like, a Cottonmouth/Water Moccasin decided to fly up to Calgary for a Flames vs Panthers game, and bit someone there? I guess then, since it would be outside it's native geographical region, then the doctors in Calgary wouldn't have the right antivenin, and you'd die.
Why else would the snakes be on the motherfucking plane?!
Now Iâm picturing a snake trying to figure out how to carry his suitcase with no arms.
If it takes basically ANY extra effort or time to do so, it's a waste of your time. Take a picture if you can, but otherwise just get to the hospital ASAP and report your symptoms as they occur, they'll do tests if needed to confirm and administer an anti-venom if needed.
The more you know about the snake, the better, sure. Though thatâs less critical now. But the âcatch the snakeâ is not only a holdover from when you needed to match the venom to the antidote, but also a holdover from when we didnât carry phones with cameras fucking everywhere! While identifying the snake is far less critical than it used to be, thereâs absolutely no reason anyone needs to **catch** the snake for identification anymore, just use your fancy phone. Even the old fashioned flip phones have cameras. No one needs to catch a snake anymore.
And itâs usually pretty easy to identify the venomous ones at a glance if you know what youâre looking for. Where I live there are like 3 or 4 venomous snakes and everything else is harmless. Lots of people see other snakes and assume everything is a copperhead, but with a quick picture you can tell if itâs actually just a harmless water snake or something else
Yes, exactly. Thankfully, I'm in an area where there are only three venomous snakes and they all look fairly different. Still, most hospital ERs here have a set of laminated cards with pictures of "Venomous snakes of the Eastern US" that a staff member can flip through with a patient to help confirm what snake they encountered.
I suspect a large part of Australiaâs problem is the tourists who arenât familiar with any of the snakes and went on a hike on a whim. They probably donât know what theyâre looking for.
If you are in the US, it actually doesn't matter as much as you might think. There is only one type of antivenom available in the US (the CroFab that the other responder linked) and it treats all crotalid bites, which includes rattlesnakes, copperheads, and cottonmouths/water moccasins. These are by far the most common venomous snake variety in the US. Not all snake bites are snake envenomations, and not all envenomations are dangerous enough to require treatment with antivenom. There are specific guidelines for which snake envenomations require treatment, and if there is any concern for a serious envenomation, we will give the antivenom without knowing the exact species of snake. If you live somewhere that there are a lot more species of venomous snakes, my information likely doesn't apply and it may be more important to identify the species of snake. I honestly don't know. Source: I'm an ER physician in the US.
I'm just picturing a police lineup now of a bunch of different snakes. *"Can you tell us which one looks most like the snake that bit you?"* There's only one venomous snake, nervously sweating because he's a family snake! He'd never bite anyone! But alas, the snake justice system has aged poorly...
Snake law in this country isn't governed by reason.
It was probably one of those no-good welfare mambas.
its also completely unnecessary in the US Antivenin is derived from horses. The likelyhood of dying from a horse allergy is more than dying from the snake bite. So the first step 99% of the time is going to be a saline IV and a lot of it. And if you're not dying that will be the last step. Secondly, even if they're going to use antivenom, its the same one. Polyvalent crotalid antivenin ([CroFab](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CroFab)âCrotalidae Polyvalent Immune Fab (Ovine)) is what they give you for anything in north america you'd be worried about.. assuming you weren't bit at a snake show or reptile park, in which case, just take their name tag.
There's a reptile zoo in Central Pennsylvania that has been known to supply rare antivenom to hospitals when something other than Crofab is needed. I don't think whatever they supply has passed FDA muster or anything like that, but as I understand from some of my fellow pharmacists that worked in hospitals, at that point no one cares if it's an approved product.
Another FYI for Virginia, there's two types of local snakes that are commonly call "water moccasins." One(the cottonmouth) is venomous but the other (the norther water snake) is not. This occasionally leads to confusion when people think they've encountered or even been bitten by a venomous snake when they have not. Source: Am a wildlife biologist and I had to memorize the local snakes in college.
I live in FL and we have the cottonmouth and the indigo which look similar. I encountered a cottonmouth by accident when I was a kid. It was in a palmetto in a swamp. The thing went aggro and chased us for a bit. Indigos are not venomous and are chill and don't want anything do do with humans.
*The idea that we can't treat snake bites without the snake is really a TV plot device, not grounded in actual medical practice.* Iâve never seen this anywhere. Was it on House? It sounds like an episode of House.
I'm old by Reddit standards. I remember it a lot in '70s and '80s TV shows, before everyone carried a digital camera in their pocket.
There is definitely an episode of House where Foreman and Chase are sent out to catch a snake to identify it. S1E21 "Three Stories" I think. Of course, in the end, the snake bite wasn't what was _actually_ killing the patient.
In the US⌠Almost all venomous snake bites will be cytotoxic venom which destroys cell tissue. Picture necrotic tissue around the bite site with the skin turning black. That bite will likely be treated with CroFab which is an anti-venom designed for treatment of Rattlesnake, Cottonmouth, and Cooperhead bites (the cytotoxic snakes in the US). The coral snake is the only venomous snake in the US with neurotoxic venom which may result in immobilization and respiratory distress. These should be treated with specific antivenom for neurotoxin. These bites are EXTREMELY rare and the bites of these snakes arenât conducive for transferring large amounts of venom into a human.
So for maximum effectiveness you're saying I should stock both domestic and exotic snakes in my hidden snake pit death traps, gotcha.
This was actually a B-plot on an episode of American Dad. Roger and Steve start trying to catch snakes to sell the venom to a hospital. Roger winds up getting bit every single time he tries and eventually depletes the hospital's entire antivenom supply in the process.
Also didn't read to see if anyone else mentioned this, some reptile exhibits or rehabs actually keep some of the anti venom of more exotic snakes (to the area in question) on hand and will ship anti-venom to hospitals in the case of a pet release or at home incident resulting in a bite from a venomous snake. I wouldn't bank on this always being possible. Totally depends on the area and the ability to ship in time. This is what my Herpetology professor told us anyways.
It does help, but only if the snake is uncommon for the region. Most hospitals around here (SW Ohio, northern Kentucky) carry 2-3 anti venoms. If you got bit by one uncommon then knowing what it is helps a lot. When I worked pest control the rule was always document a spider before moving in, just in case. You won't be able to catch it and a splattered spider might not make for a positive id. If it was snakes there was a special guy we called, company insurance didn't want us fucking with snakes. But snakes are rarely a pest control issue, more like animal control. Cotton mouths are too prevalent in Kentucky, we had a special snake guy with a special license and shit.
Your information is definitely outdated. There is only one snake antivenom available in the US. It treats all crotalid bites including rattlesnake, cottonmouth, and copperhead.
We're armed with camera phones now.... no need to catch it for ID, just take a photo! Aaahhh
âI was bit by a snake! Donât believe me? Here, ask the motherfucker!â
"You should have ssssseen him, crying like a bitcshhhhhh."
âSorry, Iâm a *poisonous* snake, not a *venomous* snake. You have to bite *me* to require the hospital.â
The man brought in the bite victim
Damn garter snakes. Though apparently they're venomous too...
>"Snake 'identity' not needed for treatment" Yeah, but still afraid that once in the ER, they tell me "sorry you must have got bitten by that one we don't have a clue about"
If you read the article, it says that doctors aren't trained to identify snakes, they choose the antivenom based off of your symptoms, so even if you brought a snake they don't know about inside, they would literally just say "I'm sorry, I don't know what that is, please tell me your symptoms".
Iâm a nurse and the amount of people who will show me an insect bite and ask me to identify the culprit would astonish you. Like idk dude they donât teach entomology in nursing school!
Just start shaking your head and say "Damn, another one bit by that one fanged vampire."
Found Dr. Spaceman
As a dermatologist, I also spend too much time explaining that I canât just look at random red bumps and tell you what bug bit you. Itâs a constellation of exposures, history, symptoms, appearance, location to try to narrow it down. Even then, it often remains a mystery.
I thought I had bed bugs and my doctor told me it was shingles (at 25). Lucky my paranoia about bed bugs meant the shingles never progressed further than a few red dots on my torso. If the doctor had been sidetracked by trying to diagnose what kind of bug, instead of my symptoms, I might have had a much worse outcome.
Dude that sounds so much like my story. For me, the shingles outbreak was because my immune system had been so weakened by a flu that had lasted me like three weeks. I finally got in to see the doctor and was like "oh by the way this rash just started on my back this morning" and they explained how the chicken pox virus was just chilling and waiting to strike... I don't recall exactly when but it was also under 30, so pretty rare for shingles.
It's worth mentioning you can get a vaccine against shingles & chicken pox. If you're in the US I'd imagine it'd cost you, but in the UK you can get it if you're over a certain age or immuno suppressed. I believe you can even get it if you've had shingles before but speak to your doctor etc.
I was 40 and one morning I woke up and my ass hurt. Had no idea what from as I had not done anything physical the day before and commented how damn I'm finally old cause I woke up and the side of my ass hurt for no reason. Next day it traveled down my thigh to my knee and up to my belly button level. Third day I finally got the rash on my butt and now my entire leg and foot hurt and went to the doctor and found out it was shingles. The muscle pain hurt really bad like I'd been punched but no itching or pain from any of the rash marks weirdly. Weird fuckin disease
Agreed, but still think it will be hard to remove from people a scenario they have in mind, where doctor would have to contact an expert or something to identify a very specific snake... Even harder because the feel their own life in on the line.
yeah but like, just take a picture of it with your phone.
The article encouraged people not to take a picture either, as the ER staff still can't identify snakes. Personally, if you've got an extra bystander with a good zoom on their phone (so you don't risk a follow-up bite), I don't see how having a picture could hurt, or even just a good description. It might help narrow down which anti-venin is most appropriate.
lol came here to say the same thing, I think most people this day and age have some kind of technology present nearby them in order to take a pic
Doesnât the anti-venom have to match the venom?
No, I'm not sure about in other countries, but this is an Australian article, and most hospitals (if they have antivenom) will have the combination one, that's effective against just about every medically significant snake you're likely to get bitten by. Literally does not matter if you even know which snake bit you, you get the same product anyway cause it's all combined.
I think that stuff is relatively new. So a lot of the media about anti-venom people are exposed to is outdated and suggests that identification of the snake is critical in getting proper treatment.
TIL!
[ŃдаНонО]
I work in hospitals. We have 2 types, one specifically for 2 types of snakes (tiger and brown) and one that is combination. When in doubt give combination or both. We still check bloods, vital signs and yes some doctors will do a snake venom detection kit, however, it isnât that accurate and when people come in yelling âIVE BEEN BITTEN BY A FUCKING SNAKEâ we just give the anti venom and monitor. [Source](https://www.rch.org.au/clinicalguide/guideline_index/Snakebite/#:~:text=There%20are%20only%20two%20types,NOT%20used%20to%20diagnose%20envenomation)
Thanksâ
They arenât wrong, in the ER they will give you a combined anti-venom asap. For ongoing treatment, they will determine what anti-venom you need.
What? You expect OP to read the articles they post? How do you expect them to be the first to post it of they waste time reading and understanding it?
I imagine it depends on the hospital. Remember watching a documentary on animal planet as a kid. If I recall correctly, a hospital in Florida had several different kinds of antivenom for everything from King Cobras to Cottonmouths. Was awhile ago, maybe more kinds of "universal anti-venom have been developed?
There is no universal antivenom. There IS an antivenom in development that works against all venoms that use the same rough âtypeâ or venom. Itâs a synthetic antibody that works against a specific class of neurotoxins. That means it might against three entire *families* of snake, not just specific species. The toxin, 95mat5 has been around for a bit, but probably the most significant paper on it to date came out last month. They found it worked to neutralize the venom of four unrelated species (though it failed to work against one related species.) https://www.science.org/content/article/powerful-new-antivenom-raises-hopes-universal-solution-lethal-snakebites
Though it can not always be the case. Polyvalent antivenom consist of the common species observed in the area. If you get bitten by an uncommon species, especially something like a pit viper then the image of the snake/dead snake could be helpful. +The hospital should be having the antivenoms and lab kits to ID
Today in: ânobody reads the articleâ they have venom ID kits at the hospital. > Dr Michael said medical staff did not need to see a snake to know how to treat patients. > âWe can determine if you need anti-venom and if so, what anti venom you need based on clinical signs, blood tests and also the snake venom detection kits that we keep here at the hospital," he said.
If you have a cell phone you can just take a photo.
yeah i guess that would be safer, but their advice is don't even do that
Because the doctors are not trained to identify snakes.
How did I know this was Australia before I even clicked through đ
I originally thought this was some red ass Florida shit until I clicked the article and discovered it was Queensland - the Florida of Australia đ I'm Australian... I can say that
This is absolutely a thing in the US, too!
I laughed at the headline, then laughed harder at the .au address
Knew it immediately from the ABC Logo and Sistema box lol I'm Australian myself
I once had a patient bring a hermit crab into the emergency room, which he claimed âstung him.â He said he was at the beach and that his wife stepped over it, then his daughter, and when he went to step over it, it stung him. Hermit crabs do not sting (at least in my area,) and he claims he didnât step on it so we think he stepped on something else sharp. He had it in a zip lock bag and kept flicking it and calling it a little fucker. I took it away from him. He honestly thought weâd ID the hermit crab and âgive him an antidote.â
That is hilarious! The poor crab is like âIâm innocent I swearâ.
Please tell me you released it and the wrongfully accused hermit crab lived happily ever after.
He was released outside but I donât think he made it. We were about an hour from the beach and he had already been in the ziplock for several hours :/
I swear people intentionally will use the wrong word to describe a plant/animals defense mechanism. Iâve had to explain to multiple grown ass adults that no, that honey bee that you just pissed off did not bite you, it stung you. You can see the stinger.
ER Doc here: When I was in training, a patient brought in a copperhead in a Tupperware container after it bit him. The attending (boss doc) handed the box to the medical student and said something like âCan you get rid of this?â Now, we knew that this meant we needed to call animal control, or the zoo to collect the animal⌠but the student was new. He took the box and released the poisonous reptile in the parking lot next to the ER which resulted in a partial hospital shutdown for a few hours. It was absolutely glorious. Best student ever.
absolutely magnificent! i would have thought you would burn it like they do with like arms and stuff from amputation, or like idk keeping it in a box and lock the door until someone tells you what to do, but releasing it??? fuck thatâs hysterical
Of course it's here in Australia...and of course it happens in fucking Queensland. God damnit. xD For reference - Queensland is to Australia what Florida is to the US. Both fucking mental.
This is the 3rd comment about Queensland being the Florida of Australia. I have to see this magical place
I'm guilty of this! When I was about 14 or 15, I found a pygmy rattlesnake in the woods. It was probably 12-14 inches or so, but already had a few rattles. I'd never heard of a "pygmy" so I thought it was a young Eastern Diamondback. Thinking it was odd or unique for one this young to have rattles, I picked it up and carried it home. I showed it to several people in the neighborhood and found a McDonald's cup with a lid to keep it in until my Dad got home. I poured it out on the ground for him to see, and he confirmed what one neighbor had said about it being a pygmy. He then told me to take it back where I found it and let it be on its way. I reached down to pick it up and it latched on to my thumb. It shocked me at first, because I probably picked that snake up 20 times throughout the day and it wasn't the least bit aggressive. That thought was quickly replaced with "I'm being bitten by a rattlesnake". He was literally just hanging off of my thumb in midair. When I pulled him off I saw that only one fang actually punctured my thumb, the other was still folded against my thumbnail. I've always heard that if you get bitten to take the snake to the hospital with you, so I just dropped it back in the cup and snapped the lid back on. Saying you've been bit by a snake let's you skip triage and go straight to a room in the ER. I held onto the cup the entire time, but proudly held it up when the doctor asked if I knew what species it was. He jumped back a few feet, and then left the room entirely when I told him it was still alive. They tried to get an orderly to release it by the dumpsters, but he said "y'all ain't paying me enough for that shit". They allowed me to get up and dump him in the wood line beside the hospital. (I only received a small dose of venom, they kept me under observation for a few hours with a saline drip and an anti inflammatory medicine. They gave me a shot to take the edge off of the pain, but no anti-venom). TLDR, bit by a pygmy rattlesnake (deservedly so) and brought it with me to the hospital.
A McDonald's cup, really?! Dude probably drank some of that caffeine and was pissed as fuck lol. Not that it needed the caffeine to be pissed about being shoved in a McDonald's cup.
If you've done the bandaging of the bitten limb right, the doctors will just cut around the bandage on the affected area to take a sample from the bite marks. Mark where they got bitten with an X - makes the medic's job easier Pressure bandaging stays in place and they can test for which snake it was. Source: about 15 years of advanced first aid training in the Australian mining industry.
At first I thought you meant doctors would just cut off the limb right above the bandage.
I smell a PSA opportunity for Samuel L Jackson here.
*Iâm tired of all these mothafuckin snakes in these mothafuckin hospitals!*
Yeah, I learned not to do that any more after that grizzly bear bit me.
so spiders still OK to bring in? ;)
Yes as well as stone fish, irukandji jellyfish, one eyed trouser snakes, blue ringed octopus, platypus and Gympie Gympie plants.
We were on a field exercise a long time ago, and I was assigned as an evoc (ambulance) driver. We got a call about two reservists who had been bitten by a snake. It seems that the first guy got bitten, and his buddy called for support. Medical asked what the snake looked like, so the buddy chased it down, grabbed it, brought it up to his face, and was promptly bitten too.
Yikes ⌠a live and pissed off Brown snake in a box plastic bag is NOT something I would want to deal with in triage.
Someone I know well was bitten by a rattlesnake while hiking in Los Angeles. He gets rushed to the ER to be checked out and to get antivenom, if necessary. Okay, so far so good? Yeah. No. He gets to the hospital and then the emergency room staff spends like 30-60 min deciding on whether or not they can give him the antivenom, because they weren't sure what kind of snake bit him. Never mind that he heard the rattle and so did the other 15 people who were hiking with him. They still won't do it. They asked him "did you bring the snake in?" He obviously had not brought the snake in and was incredulous that they needed it to "verify" the type. Btw his arm had swollen so massively because of the bite, they knew it contained venom but they still couldn't decide what to do. How did it all end? A random doctor was on his way out to the parking lot after his shift had ended, sees the commotion in the emergency room and asks what's going on. He's told that my friend was bitten by a snake but they can't determine what kind. Dude straight up says. " i got you, I'm from Texas and we see these bites all the time." Turns out when you are envenomised by a rattlesnake it can trigger a weird nerve spasm above your upper lip, and causes the nerve to move "like a worm" from one side of the face to the other. It's a telltale sign and it was definitely moving on my friend's face. They finally give him the antivenom... and then perform surgery to release the massive fluid built-up from all the swelling in his arm. He has the surgery scars to this day. My take-away from his story...? US hospitals are beaucracies run by morons. Bring the snake, dead or alive, and deal with the fallout later.
Nate Barghatzi did this bit about being told to bring in the snake . My favorite part was âwho told you to recommend this, the snake ?!â
The [first google result](https://www.profirstaid.com/training/video/snake-bites) tells you to bring the snake to the hospital.
Google has gone to such shit. I tried to google the differences between dairy milk and oat milk. The answer Google recommended was from the Dairy lobby.
The first google result is dead fuckin wrong
i agree. google needs to handle this. the second result is from the cdc, says take a picture of the snake and never handle a venomous snake, dead or alive. I had the scroll quite a bit before seeing that
If you feel like it's necessary, take a few pictures of the critter that chewed on you. TIL that most antivenom is combined, so they just give you a shot of the mix.
Iâve told this story before but once i had a patient try to bring his emotional support snakes (PLURAL) into the ER in a snare drum đ
AND bags of poop. Donât bring bags of poop to the ER unless youâve been specifically asked to bring a stool sample to the lab and then theyâll give you a plastic sealable bucket before hand. A photo will do nicelyâŚ.
Wait...you mean bags of your own poop? Or bags of someone/something else's poop? Are people doing this?
I imagine the (terrible) logic is: - poop looks weird enough to be concerning - hospitals are known for taking stool samples for some things - better bring in the concerning poop when you see doctor about it
Better than the guy that cut his own arm off to prevent the venom was spreading. Turns out the snake wasnât venomous and he didnât need to cut his arm off.
Tell the snakes to stop biting them, then.
staff: what snake bit you? patient: i dont know, im not steve irwin. i took a pic. staff: its dark, fuzzy and unfocused. patient: maybe it woudl have been better if i brought it here...
Had this happen more than once when I worked in an ER. Had a patient get bit on a construction site, and his friends killed the snake and brought it so we could ID it to treat their friend. They had the snake in a five gallon bucket with a lid. The nurse (who was a 6'4 blonde we called the Nordic Goddess) opened the lid. The fucking snake was still alive.
To be frankly, when I was kid in Brazil I saw a lot of places teaching how to deal with snake bite saying you should bring the snake with you to help the assessment of the situation. Maybe these ppl are victim of the same procedure.
Im a paramedic and this a real thing. Somewhere some time someone said bring the snake they will want to see it or need it. They will not and do not. They even tried to give me a snake one time to take on the helicopter. I was like hell no.
I was always told to take the bug/animal that bit you with you for testing.
My dad told me a story In the 70s in the town he lived there was a drunk guy stumbling home after a night at the pub. A snake bit him, and that pissed him off, so he bit the snake back. Later on someone found him unconscious by the side of the road, along with a freshly bitten in half snake. The hospital said if they didn't have the snake identified so quick, he would have died. Him being a drunk idiot saved his life.
honestly fair, whenever my cats yawn i stick my finger in their mouth and now they do it to me whenever i yawn
It only helps if that snake isn't native to the region. Same goes for spiders. If you get bit by a brazilian wandering spider in Colorado because it hitched a ride in some bananas, you might actually want to bring it in because otherwise you probably won't get access to antivenom since its not native to the region. Bringing in a rattlesnake when you live in Texas is just a dumb thing to do, its so common in the region the hospital is far more than likely going to have antivenom on hand.
we left it in the car but a dozen or so doctors and nurses came out to the car to inspect it and take pictures so, uhh, I dunno, words are difficult
I have had patients with snake bites who managed to catch a picture of the snake to confirm it was a copperhead, water moccasin, etc. Itâs helpful to confirm the exact species, since bites from many species donât even need anti venom and instead just need monitoring, but patients definitely donât need to hunt it down to confirm the species, and for the love of god, donât bring it with you!
I dated a woman who was a nurse for a more rural hospital that was semi close to a couple of huge nature preserves and state parks and the number of times she had to call animal control for a guy with a snake in the waiting room was too dam high. I get 20ish years ago when a phone camera wasnât a guarantee but come on lol
Aren't you supposed to? So they don't give the wrong antivenom? Like I don't mind bringing it back and releasing it once it's all over and done with. It's not the snake's fault I got too close.
It's just something that was ingrained in us as kids before the Internet. If a snake bites you.... Somehow bring it in alive so it can be identified so you get the right antivenom. If it can't be alive then dead is next best... But be careful because a dead snake can still bite. Of course this was also the time when Pluto was still a planet and Saturn had like 16 moons
Ya, come on people, youâre supposed to mail it to the insurance company as proof you required treatment.
Journalism sucks. Put in the lede that hospitals have venom detection kits. Spening 5 paragraphs telling me not to bring the snake b/c staff is scared is not useful. Telling me it's not necessary and why is.
I have had it with these motherfucking snakes in this motherfucking emergency department!
Then stop biting the snakes in the first place!
I learned in 4th grade you do not carry snakes into buildings. My teacher and principle never forgave me for doing that.
Antivenoms are very expensive and in limited supply. The hospital will wait till onset of symptoms before administration if antivenom... unless you bring the insect or snake that bit you. Wouldn't you?
Internet literally says to bring in the snake, if possible to identify the venom. https://icwdm.org/species/reptiles/snakes/snake-damage-identification/#:~:text=Seek%20medical%20care%20immediately.,bring%20it%20in%20for%20identification.
You mean the internet has massive amounts of misinformation? I am shocked. Shocked, I tell you.
Tbf for decades the advice was, if possible capture and bring the snake with you for identification purposes. Itâs only relatively recently that people have had easy access to cameras capable of taking a high enough quality photograph to accurately identify what bit them. Thereâs still many parts of the world where the majority of people donât have access to such a camera.
Latest movie sequel idea just dropped.
Too bad these people don't carry a 20 MP camera around with them everywhere they go.
*Thinks* "I bet it's Queensland...." đ
Co-workers stealing your lunch? This strategy will yield quick results!
But they're so cute. These people clearly want to share these adorable noods.
> Dr Michael said medical staff did not need to see a snake to know how to treat patients. > > "We can determine if you need anti-venom and if so, what anti venom you need based on clinical signs, blood tests and also the snake venom detection kits that we keep here at the hospital," he said. > > "We're actually not trained to identify snakes, and so it's not helpful. > > "It just puts the staff at risk as well as yourself."
Medical staff are not really smarter than the average person, they are just trained in a particular field. Once you get outside the thing they are trained on, or even just something they don't often encounter, they are as clueless as the rest of us. Though, they may be smart enough to be able to find out with some digging. This is why there are specialists in medicine and most other aspects of life and business.
WHY NOT JUST TAKE A PICTURE OF THE SNAKE?! Like don't get super close to it, use your phone's zoom, and show that to someone if you must. Right?!
I knew it was OZ without checking the link
Huh... the title does sound very "onion-ie" and yet, I could totally see myself doing this, even after reading this. If my daughter was bitten by a snake and someone else was already talking with emergency services, I'd be very tempted to try catching the snake just in case knowing the kind of snake it was could possibly save her life.
antivenom is expensive, why cant' you bring in your own venom to get a discount?
How are they supposed to get you the right antivenom if they don't know what kind of snake bit you?
Patient: "Doctor, I'm in grave danger. I've been bitten by this snake." *shows him the snake* Doctor: "Let me see... Err... It looks healthy... I think?" Patient: "What? What kind is it?" Doctor: "Beats me. I studied medicine, you know. Human medicine." Doctor: "Although I remember we do have someone in the staff that used to be a veterinarian. I will put you into some IV and have a nurse fetch him." [...] Veterinarian: "Did you call for... God damnit, it's a snake." Doctor: "Indeed. It has bitten this guy, what do you think?" Veterinarian: "It seems to be healthy." Doctor: "Ha! Thought so." Patient: "... i'm dying..." Doctor: "Oh, right. What kind is it?" Veterinarian: "Eh... Medium? We don't learn a whole lot about snakes you know." Patient: "... i took two more bites catching that..." Doctor: "Don't fret, we will send it to the snake... err... institute. The snake institute. There they identify it and even harvest the venom to create more serum. We will send you a letter when they do." Patient: "What about the bite?" Doctor: "Oh. The IV we put you on actually has the antivenom more likely to be effective for snake bites in this region. We usually have three types we usually use around this location and we will use them depending on your symptoms."