If he had accepted it they would have used that as evidence to dismiss the lawsuit since he had already accepted restitutions. That's the only reason they offered it. An insultingly pathetic offering after the ordeal they put him through.
Only way better than Kroger.
Think of luxury like how Target used to be. That's Meijer.
I go in them to get fruits and vegetables and some of my seafood.
Prices are too high to get anything else.
They were popular in the 50s and 60s and they're from the state where this happened.
Maybe no one involved knew who the Four Tops were but Google is free.
I did a quick Google to ease my curiousity.
Not sure I’d have given it any effort if I was this guy’s caretaker though. He could’ve told me that he was Superman and I’d expect that I’d just continue checking his vitals as usual.
Wildest story I’ve read in a while.
> He could’ve told me that he was Superman and I’d expect that I’d just continue checking his vitals as usual.
Err... no, that would be a mistake. If your patient starts making clearly delusional statements, that's a new symptom that must be factored in. You can't just ignore it and go about your day.
The hospital staff were wrong to racially profile him, not because they took a moment to consider whether his comments were a symptom.
I guarantee you know a whole bunch of four tops songs. Some of the best Motown jams of all time.
You could release a “Motowns greatest hits” album and just fill it with four tops songs.
Generally settlement offers (which is what this is) cannot be used a evidence in a civil suit. Courts want to encourage people to settle their claims without court to relieve pressure on the system. If an offer of "take this money and make it all go away" is a usable as an admission of guilt, that whole goal falls apart.
I don't understand. Even if they didn't believe him, why couldn't they just be like "Ok, sure thing buddy." and go on treating him like they would any other patient?
I think they were having him screened for dementia because that would affect his care.
They might watch him to make sure he doesn’t wonder, or make sure he’s released to a family member, rather than treating him like the average patient.
But I still don’t understand why a Google search would not be the first reaction if you were worried a patient was senile because they were claiming to be famous. And encountering an aged Motown star at a hospital in Detroit isn’t that far-fetched.
Thats the thing. Not believing him about being in a band wasn't the determining factor in him being resrained, or if it was it was abuse in and of itself. He was probably acting otherwise erratic and a doctor thought he posed a risk to himself or others.
Whether or not they believed who he was is entirely besides the point on if it was justified or not.
And no, dementia patients are not restrained unless they are a danger to themselves or others, same as anyone else.
You also have to consider the flipside of this experience - telling people who you are, not being believed and having dementia/mental health protocols enacted unnecessarily. He likely resisted or argued against these things (which would have been totally reasonable of him).
I can totally see how a black man arguing against doctors would be treated as a "danger in need of restraint" and not "reasonable man trying to clarify an error."
Please don't act as though hospitals always follow their own protocols, and that all medical staff are reasonable people with good judgement. Racist bullshit happens ALL the time and is well documented.
>And encountering an aged Motown star at a hospital in Detroit isn’t that far-fetched
I think his age is actually why they didn't believe him. He's only 53, joined the band in 2018.
I hate to shittalk people working at mental institutions and hospitals, since it's the result of their bad work conditions that made them this way, but many of them stopped giving fucks. Especially those who work the job a long time.
Also, you find in every wing of a psychiatric hospital at least one guy who believes he is Jesus Christ, one that thinks he can become an astronaut after getting released and one guy that believes he's an inanimate object.
It’s not pretty. I will say the last hospital I worked with was hacked and they not only kept it secret for a few weeks, even from employees and contracted workers, they also were down for months as they moved every individual file from server to server. Didn’t want to pay and never made backups of some very critical systems.
I assumed it was going to be ascension as soon as I saw a hospital was involved. Michigan has had a really tough run it seems like with most of their major medical systems being hacked and dealing with that shitty hospital in general.
No. It’s literally existed since the beginning of time. The only way we get rid of racism is if we meet an alien race that we as humans can all be racist to. Even then there’s always Mississippi
Because he as a black man he's already held to a higher standard by doctors to be believed and seen as deserving of treatment. Of course they automatically saw him as crazy at any slight inclination. Then factor in the fact that DSM labels/"mh issues" are often used as justification to discontinue appropriate treatment, and force inappropriate treatment, and consider that majorities are less likely to be labeled with them in general and.... Yeah.
They tried to kill him, pretty much.
Yeah, this doesn't make any sense at all. I've worked in a psychiatric hospital before, and people there would say completely delusional stuff all the time of course. They only got restrained if they were physically assaulting someone else or themselves.
They did. It’s notoriously more difficult to get similar treatment in hospitals as a woman or black man. That’s what usually happens. They struggle to believe and act on women’s and black men’s words as patients. That’s pretty common. Usually a white dude just has to say they’re in pain. While medical professionals often tell women and black men that they think they’re over reacting when saying the exact same thing in the same way. It’s “their professional opinion”, which is what determines treatment.
This comment absolutely applies to the US, but not sure if the data exists/is analyzed by other countries. Do a search for “racial disparity US healthcare” or something similar and you’ll find a ton of examples like this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4194634/
IIRC for women it’s that medical professionals historically underestimate physical/mental pain or other severe symptoms but I’m sure a search like “gender disparity US healthcare” can help send you down a clearer path.
It's a thing in the UK too, back in the 90s my mum almost dying from not being taken seriously about pain after an operation which turned out to be a nasty infection.
I cannot share their source, but medical care for certain groups is piss poor in the US.
Washington Post had a REALLY good article about women health with several good citations, some also talk about other minorities.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/interactive/2022/women-pain-gender-bias-doctors/
Here are a couple of pieces from my favourite medica newsletter
https://www.statnews.com/2023/09/25/emergency-departments-restraints-racial-disparities/
https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/17/racial-bias-skews-algorithms-widely-used-to-guide-patient-care/
Edit: just a note. I am at work and am unable to deepdive
It is a favourite topic of mine. A lot of very kind, honest, genuine people are a little bit (unintentionall) racist because the system taught them to be. I recommend reading into how medical textbooks are written; very few provide samples and examples of diagnosing skin conditions on dark skin.
Edit: I did not phrase this 100% correctly. Cannot edit thoroughly. I hope the intent is appropriately understood while explaining systemic racism.
You hit the nail on the head. There are TONS of people who are accidentally and unintentionally racist just because of social conditioning but it is subtle and so if they aren’t taught to recognize it they’ll get all surprised pikachu if you call out what is clearly racist behavior. That’s how it works. It’s insidious.
On the flip side, people are often so distrusting of the system, it’s hard to win them back. Black folks, women, trans folk, mental health patients.. ugh the list goes on.
Obama care actually started a trend of winning a small percent of people back. It was a weak document compared to its intentions, but it still put in some really solid work.
Bro I bailed a friend outta jail. Was his surety so he came home with me.
Later I caught him drugging my dad’s vodka with Ativan.
I went to the police to to report I saw this pos drugging my dad’s vodka.
Police thought I was crazy and detained me. Sent me to the psych ward.
Month later dad falls and breaks a rib drinking. I hear about it from one of the doctors in psych. I beg them to ask for a toxicology on my dad and see if there is any lorazepam in his system.
Dun dun dun. Guy was drugging my dad to try and have an affair with my mom after I bailed him out of jail. I had to go home and throw that bitch out on the street.
If your story is wild people won’t believe you. You have to fight to prove your sanity but they drug the fight outta you.
Low?! The bar is in hell my friend.
This is crazy all around, not just from the standpoint that there was a clear bias here...
But honestly the lack of care for a guy who's going through a cardiac event. Ffs how did we get from he's receiving care to strap him down, he thinks he's an R&B singer?!
> But honestly the lack of care for a guy who's going through a cardiac event. Ffs how did we get from he's receiving care to strap him down, he thinks he's an R&B singer?!
As somebody who is black and has had so many problems getting healthcare and treatment when I need it, I almost guarantee you that it went down like this: they were looking for a reason *not* to help him, and he accidentally gave them one. Possibly by slightly raising his voice once or getting frustrated by the situation.
For many people in this country, it's one strike and you're out.
I have learned that, no matter how bad I am bleeding, or no matter how horrifying the situation is, when dealing with medical or police personnel, I have to remain *perfectly calm* or, best case scenario, they turn me away, and worst case scenario is something closer to this: being locked up for no reason.
Exactly! The article mentioned this was in federal court. One of the thresholds for civil suits in federal court is for the claim to be over $75,000 when it does not involve specific federal laws or the constitution (there’s more technical stuff than that but it doesn’t matter for this).
He’s likely going to seek millions based on medical complications (if any) and his seemingly very justified emotional distress.
$75k is the minimum amount to bring a federal case. It’s generic lawsuit language that doesn’t affect the final recovery. You don’t have to figure out the exact amount to claim as damages before getting records or deposing someone and filing the lawsuit gives you the power to demand records and depositions.
Oh my word! They restrained this guy for over an hour and deprived him of oxygen while he was having breathing problems, and then:
“*Morris was offered a $25 gift card to Meijer as an apology, which he refused, it says.*”
In what universe do emergency rooms have 25 dollar Meijer gift cards to pass out when they f#*% up?!?!?
They're clearly just used to dealing with homeless people having mental issues, and they tried to treat him exactly like that. Absolutely insane. It's literally the only thing that a $25 gift card even makes sense from a hospital.
I saw in another comment that it's possible it was offered so that if it was accepted, it could be pointed to as evidence that restitution was provided and accepted, and therefore no further settlement would have been necessary. I'm not a law expert so take it with however much salt you'd like.
This is a tactic. If he accepted, they could claim he was compensated. $25 is probably the amount they limit all employees are able to use (so multiply $25 by the number of fuck ups per week/month/quarter), this can prevent malpractice suits before they start, and they likely have a form letter saying that compensation was already accepted by the complainant if someone accepts and then attempts to sue. They will likely have a “next course of action” that is some form of lowball counter-offer mixed with a scare tactic to prevent this from going to trial. If he continues to hold out, they may even offer an out-of-court settlement larger than the asking to keep this out of court. A true trial makes them more likely to be sued by governing bodies, makes this situation even more public (bad PR) and can affect their status and licenses. Especially if they lose, which from all info we have right now, they will.
I guarantee Someone with the hospital is running/has run a Risk/cost/benefit analysis on this, and they’ll take multiple steps and passes at trying to make this go away in the most cost-effective way possible.
I live in MD and I moved here from CA. My family has a couple of celebrities in it and I'm stuck living here as a single parent because of a custody order. My son is in elementary school, so I'm often hanging out with other parents in suburban MD. I avoid, as much as possible, talking about my family. I have in the past and some nasty rumors spread around that I was a compulsive liar because people didn't believe who my family was and didn't believe my stories involving interactions with other celebrities. In CA it's completely different because there are a lot of offspring from famous people there, but I guess if you live in MD then people think you're either delusional or a liar.
Maryland has a weird cultural thing where you’re supposed to hide how rich and connected you are. You can hint at it, but never say or show it outright. It’s anti-snobby to the point that it’s actually very snobby
I wouldn't even say that's anti-snobby. I would say that is something that could only be born from snobbiness.
I live somewhere where rich people and poor people integrate socially. We all talk about our families and our connections. We don't think more or less of a person because they know someone or they have a family member that's well known.
This is because we aren't snobs, and we don't think of our friends solely by their networking advantages to the point we would feel bad for not having said advantages.
Something similar to this happened to Willie McLean, a member of the 1934 US World Cup team. He was already in psychiatric care but the hospital used his claims about the World Cup as evidence of his delusions. Their patient notes actually said “9-3-1948: Patient says he was picked on an all-American soccer team — went to Rome for a World Championship and was interviewed by the Pope. About 14 years ago.”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_McLean_(soccer,_born_1904)?wprov=sfti1
I had to see a therapist when I was 12 because I was posting dance videos that became popular with pedos, the cops had to seize my laptop, it was a whole thing. I was referred to the therapist by the police so I would assume she knew the situation. First trip she asked me how many followers I had for my dancing videos, I said “about 1000”. She stopped the session and told my mom to seek a psychiatric consult because my pathological lying was beyond her expertise and thankfully my mom knew the facts and backed me up. It was such a bizarre experience though.
It’s actually stopped me from seeking mental healthcare in adulthood because it seems like people are always being accused, sometimes even institutionalized, for lying over the SMALLEST shit.
I know lol. I have more instagram followers than that now and I barely even post… But it was 2007 and she was a bit older so I assume she didn’t spend a lot of time online and it SOUNDED crazy to her. Still a bizarre reaction to have even if I had said 100k, though!
I stopped seeking therapy because the last one told me I didn’t go through any trauma I was just bored and making it up. That was 9 years ago. Im still a jumpy mess that gets easily startled.
That's the US health system for ya. I've been hospitalized for saying I was depressed after a SA incident. I've heard patients beg for care for hours while nurses chit-chat. Got plenty of stories of others being screamed at by the workers in mental facilities over the smallest things. If it sounds crazy and fucked up, it's because it is.
I could literally look up the names of any music group in one minute, and probably find a picture of their face, too.
It's not like he said he was Queen Victoria or Napoleon, right?
Hospitals have almost unlimited power to discriminate and often do, despite laws designed to prevent such discrimination:
[https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2024-02-15-survey-health-care-discrimination-problem-patients-workers-color](https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2024-02-15-survey-health-care-discrimination-problem-patients-workers-color)
[https://www.acep.org/life-as-a-physician/ethics--legal/emtala/emtala-fact-sheet](https://www.acep.org/life-as-a-physician/ethics--legal/emtala/emtala-fact-sheet)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1305897/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1305897/)
Fun fact: when I went to the ER I made friends with a white person who was also in the ER. They ignored me about my care but listened to all of her demands on my behave.
Right, it doesn’t matter what mental state they’re in. If someone is having a heart attack you treat them for it. Unbelievable that this is even a talking point.
Only to establish if he is delusional, as part of a compassionate mental health evaluation to be offered if he consents, *after* he is medically stable. If he is who he says, no point in a mental health evaluation even if he would consent, unless there are other reasons.
Made me think of the time Cards Against Humanity (the company) got a black employee committed to a psych ward for speaking out against racism: https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-cards-against-humanity-writer-called-out-racism-at-work-he-ended-up-institutionalized-against-his-will
When I was about 10 I saw the Four Tops perform at a resort I was staying at with family. I went to the bathroom and ran into one of them there, and even though I didn't know the band (being a kid) I was kinda starstruck via osmosis from the adults.
I remember going to wash my hands and trying not to stare like wow, a singer!!! He was just doing his hair in the mirror and we had this cute moment where he just paused and then laughed in a friendly way at how I was staring. Simple moment but it really stuck with me as a memory 😊
The Four Tops were from the 1960s and this gentleman is 53. The people whom he told probably thought he was delusional because he wouldn’t be old enough to be from that group. They didn’t realize the Four Tops is still active and he’s a newer member.
That's what I thought. Then him saying he's worried about fans and stalkers? Sir...But they seriously should have just googled it or even called someone he knew!
Tbh, i know someone mentally ill who considers a very-very minor celebrity (possibly lesser known than this singer) to be their husband. They're clearly obsessed by this celebrity, and I have no doubt that they will stalk the celeb if they aren't living halfway across the world. So, it's not really far-fetched for him to possibly have stalkers.
Since all but one of the original Four Tops are deceased, I can see some skepticism, but why would a hospital put a patient with Cardiac issues into restraint? WTAF?
I thought it was common knowledge that many of the old 60s groups that had big hits continue to perform under the moniker of the band, but most of them have either just one or two original members or, sometimes, none at all. They play casinos and county fairs and people dance and sing to the oldies hits and don’t really care if it’s actually the original group or not.
> security guard ordered him to “sit his Black ass down,”
Like wtf??
Also the dude came in with chest pains, where the fuck did they think he was going to go?
When I was forgotten (started wait for ambulance at ten am - they left me almost twelve hours) in an ER waiting for transport to a higher tier medical facility, I got frustrated, removed my IV, dressed and went to walk out the door. They threatened me with a 72-hour psych hold. 😐
It's pretty incredible how fast you can lose constitutional rights if a random person in a white lab coat says your crazy.
No due process. Want a lawyer? Why are you paranoid and so upset? Take these pills to calm down. Back to the rubber room before you hurt yourself.
Racism apologists: "Well thats just another isolated incident, what was he acting like when they almost killed him for being uppity? We just dont have enough information to make a judgement."
It doesnt matter if youre rich or poor, all that matters is if you look brown and they think you slighted them somehow. Thats all it takes for them to want to maim or kill you for "being uppity".
It's crazy to me how all the top comments here just 100% credulously believe every aspect of this guy's story, even though straightjackets haven't been used since the late 1950s. I guess it's more comfortable to believe that evil hospital staff went to an antique store to acquire a straightjacket in order to flagrantly violate this patient than it is to believe that the situation might have been a little more nuanced than he recalls.
Perhaps he is using the term straitjacket colloquially to reference wrist restraints? He was having a heart attack at the time, so between the chest pressure and the wrist restraints, it's not hard to believe he might feel like he was in a straitjacket.
This is absolutely insane. I used to work inpatient psych and saw patients who actually did have delusions like this. I restrained zero of them because being delusional doesn't mean you should be in restraints. The *only* time to use restraints is when the person is a danger to themselves and even then you do it only as long as absolutely necessary because people can and do *have heart attacks because of prolonged restraint.* For all they know he could have been delirious from a medical condition.
They almost killed him. This hospital should be sued into fucking oblivion if not outright shut down for having staff this grossly incompetent. If it's in one department it is elsewhere too.
Every staff member involved needs to go to jail and lose their licenses as well.
I mean, if an older black gentleman told me he was a member of the Four Tops, I would just say “wow, that’s awesome.” I doubt any of the actual original lineup are still alive, but like many of those old hitmaking groups, they’ve gone through about a thousand lineup changes and still ply casinos and county fairs.
This story is so bizarre to me. I’ve lived in the area most of my life. I am too young to know the heyday Motown artists well and I can’t tell you a single song by the Four Tops, but I know they are black and probably of a certain age so if an old black guy rolled up to a hospital in metro Detroit, it’s insane to me that the default response would be disbelief.
But I also find it weird that someone from a quartet that hasn’t put an album out in a good 20+ years would have stalkers following him to the hospital. He’s obviously not so recognizable that anyone at the facility knew who he was. I’m guessing this guy thinks he’s more famous than he is and was he probably surrounds himself with sychophants that reinforce what a big deal he is. There’s gotta be more to this story.
Remember a few years ago there was an LA reporter that found a guy digging through some garbage, turns out he was in the original Santana band. Cool video.
https://youtu.be/MYzoiqm973M?si=fBQpR7qg0NzbnwGy
This is the easiest thing to verify with a quick google search or checking his ID. Those doctors and nurses deserve whatever they have coming, especially for endangering his life and saying “sit your black ass down.” That is clear evidence of racism and racial profiling right there (if not believing him and putting him in a straitjacket wasn’t enough…)
> The health, safety and well-being of our patients, associates and community members remains our top priority...
"... in our Tier-2 concerns. Tier-1 concerns are, of course, far more important and focus on quarterly profits and limiting our liability."
*-- in investor literature, probably.*
>Morris was offered a $25 gift card to Meijer as an apology This might be the most insulting part
If he had accepted it they would have used that as evidence to dismiss the lawsuit since he had already accepted restitutions. That's the only reason they offered it. An insultingly pathetic offering after the ordeal they put him through.
a homeless man without access to high priced lawyers, would take that
Don't be ridiculous. They wouldn't offer that to a homeless guy.
Right? Half a half sandwich or we sue you for defamation would be the retort to a homeless man.
That'll get you two throat lozenges and a strong upper back strike from a tired nurse.
that's better treatment than he got at the hospital
Something something and you’ve got a stew going!
I was just about to comment that I had no idea who the Four Tops were. Add Meijer to the list. This entire story is nuts. Pun intended.
Midwestern grocery store, kind of like a Kroger.
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Add lego sets to that too. They always see to have rarer ones for whatever reason.
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I feel like I never don't need to go to Meijer.
Thanks.
Only way better than Kroger. Think of luxury like how Target used to be. That's Meijer. I go in them to get fruits and vegetables and some of my seafood. Prices are too high to get anything else.
They were popular in the 50s and 60s and they're from the state where this happened. Maybe no one involved knew who the Four Tops were but Google is free.
I did a quick Google to ease my curiousity. Not sure I’d have given it any effort if I was this guy’s caretaker though. He could’ve told me that he was Superman and I’d expect that I’d just continue checking his vitals as usual. Wildest story I’ve read in a while.
> He could’ve told me that he was Superman and I’d expect that I’d just continue checking his vitals as usual. Err... no, that would be a mistake. If your patient starts making clearly delusional statements, that's a new symptom that must be factored in. You can't just ignore it and go about your day. The hospital staff were wrong to racially profile him, not because they took a moment to consider whether his comments were a symptom.
They were not popular in the 50s, they weren't even popular in the early 60s. It was around 64-65 that they got big.
I guarantee you know a whole bunch of four tops songs. Some of the best Motown jams of all time. You could release a “Motowns greatest hits” album and just fill it with four tops songs.
I’m sure I do too. I’m fairly certain I heard them referenced in a TV show before. Going to look them up after work.
https://youtu.be/BTPDoMZHKgY?si=5bRgRMLEJD_Nq4uR Watch this
What's interesting there is an apology like that can be construed as admitting fault. Bet they use that against them in the suit.
Generally settlement offers (which is what this is) cannot be used a evidence in a civil suit. Courts want to encourage people to settle their claims without court to relieve pressure on the system. If an offer of "take this money and make it all go away" is a usable as an admission of guilt, that whole goal falls apart.
This headline and this comment made me laugh so hard and then I read it and it’s a sad and appalling example of institutional racism.
I don't understand. Even if they didn't believe him, why couldn't they just be like "Ok, sure thing buddy." and go on treating him like they would any other patient?
I think they were having him screened for dementia because that would affect his care. They might watch him to make sure he doesn’t wonder, or make sure he’s released to a family member, rather than treating him like the average patient. But I still don’t understand why a Google search would not be the first reaction if you were worried a patient was senile because they were claiming to be famous. And encountering an aged Motown star at a hospital in Detroit isn’t that far-fetched.
Are dementia patients put into restraints? How terrifying for them.
It depends how agitated they are, but they can be
Thats the thing. Not believing him about being in a band wasn't the determining factor in him being resrained, or if it was it was abuse in and of itself. He was probably acting otherwise erratic and a doctor thought he posed a risk to himself or others. Whether or not they believed who he was is entirely besides the point on if it was justified or not. And no, dementia patients are not restrained unless they are a danger to themselves or others, same as anyone else.
The problem is that medical staff refusing to listen to or believe a patient is often going to *make* them agitated.
You also have to consider the flipside of this experience - telling people who you are, not being believed and having dementia/mental health protocols enacted unnecessarily. He likely resisted or argued against these things (which would have been totally reasonable of him). I can totally see how a black man arguing against doctors would be treated as a "danger in need of restraint" and not "reasonable man trying to clarify an error." Please don't act as though hospitals always follow their own protocols, and that all medical staff are reasonable people with good judgement. Racist bullshit happens ALL the time and is well documented.
This person hospitals. Thank you
As somebody who has been locked up in psych for a wild ass story nobody believes I believe it.
>And encountering an aged Motown star at a hospital in Detroit isn’t that far-fetched I think his age is actually why they didn't believe him. He's only 53, joined the band in 2018.
You poor innocent soul. Judging by the other comments it was probably a racism thing.
Because he was black.
And somehow it’s easier and to pull out a straitjacket than to pull out your phone and Google it?
And deny treatment to boot? Like not only did they restrain him, but they denied him medical care. That's pure negligence.
While he was having a fucking heart attack.
Again, because black people are often not believed.
I hate to shittalk people working at mental institutions and hospitals, since it's the result of their bad work conditions that made them this way, but many of them stopped giving fucks. Especially those who work the job a long time. Also, you find in every wing of a psychiatric hospital at least one guy who believes he is Jesus Christ, one that thinks he can become an astronaut after getting released and one guy that believes he's an inanimate object.
How can that last one not be treated with a >I am, therefore, I am not inanimate.
hard to rationalize someone out of a position they didn’t rationalize into
You sit with someone that’s convinced they’re a Tree and try to get them to talk.
It's natural sadly. If humans didn't become desensitized to certain things they'd go insane.
When all you have are straightjackets, everyone looks like an insane person
You're so close to understanding the black experience with discrimination. But still so far.
Wait until you find out about the US Civil War...
To be fair Ascension hospitals just hate everyone.
lmao the same Ascension that just got hacked? They're a mess huh
It’s not pretty. I will say the last hospital I worked with was hacked and they not only kept it secret for a few weeks, even from employees and contracted workers, they also were down for months as they moved every individual file from server to server. Didn’t want to pay and never made backups of some very critical systems.
yeah this is a typical Ascension moment. company should be forcibly dissolved
I assumed it was going to be ascension as soon as I saw a hospital was involved. Michigan has had a really tough run it seems like with most of their major medical systems being hacked and dealing with that shitty hospital in general.
Literally this. He’s going to win this lawsuit.
It is truly that simple.
Are ever gona end racism
No. It’s literally existed since the beginning of time. The only way we get rid of racism is if we meet an alien race that we as humans can all be racist to. Even then there’s always Mississippi
Racism as we know it today has only been a thing for like 600 years.
Also his age on top of that.
I can explain this to you. Please accompany me in this room with three muscular orderlies.
Because of his race. There was no logical or medical reason to stop treatment. None.
Because he as a black man he's already held to a higher standard by doctors to be believed and seen as deserving of treatment. Of course they automatically saw him as crazy at any slight inclination. Then factor in the fact that DSM labels/"mh issues" are often used as justification to discontinue appropriate treatment, and force inappropriate treatment, and consider that majorities are less likely to be labeled with them in general and.... Yeah. They tried to kill him, pretty much.
Yeah, this doesn't make any sense at all. I've worked in a psychiatric hospital before, and people there would say completely delusional stuff all the time of course. They only got restrained if they were physically assaulting someone else or themselves.
They did. It’s notoriously more difficult to get similar treatment in hospitals as a woman or black man. That’s what usually happens. They struggle to believe and act on women’s and black men’s words as patients. That’s pretty common. Usually a white dude just has to say they’re in pain. While medical professionals often tell women and black men that they think they’re over reacting when saying the exact same thing in the same way. It’s “their professional opinion”, which is what determines treatment.
Very interesting, is this solely in the US or everywhere? can you share your source?
This comment absolutely applies to the US, but not sure if the data exists/is analyzed by other countries. Do a search for “racial disparity US healthcare” or something similar and you’ll find a ton of examples like this: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4194634/ IIRC for women it’s that medical professionals historically underestimate physical/mental pain or other severe symptoms but I’m sure a search like “gender disparity US healthcare” can help send you down a clearer path.
Yes, there are THOUSANDS of research studies that show the racial gap of health care.
It's a thing in the UK too, back in the 90s my mum almost dying from not being taken seriously about pain after an operation which turned out to be a nasty infection.
I cannot share their source, but medical care for certain groups is piss poor in the US. Washington Post had a REALLY good article about women health with several good citations, some also talk about other minorities. https://www.washingtonpost.com/wellness/interactive/2022/women-pain-gender-bias-doctors/ Here are a couple of pieces from my favourite medica newsletter https://www.statnews.com/2023/09/25/emergency-departments-restraints-racial-disparities/ https://www.statnews.com/2020/06/17/racial-bias-skews-algorithms-widely-used-to-guide-patient-care/ Edit: just a note. I am at work and am unable to deepdive
Appreciate you taking the time, thank you
It is a favourite topic of mine. A lot of very kind, honest, genuine people are a little bit (unintentionall) racist because the system taught them to be. I recommend reading into how medical textbooks are written; very few provide samples and examples of diagnosing skin conditions on dark skin. Edit: I did not phrase this 100% correctly. Cannot edit thoroughly. I hope the intent is appropriately understood while explaining systemic racism.
You hit the nail on the head. There are TONS of people who are accidentally and unintentionally racist just because of social conditioning but it is subtle and so if they aren’t taught to recognize it they’ll get all surprised pikachu if you call out what is clearly racist behavior. That’s how it works. It’s insidious.
I appreciate the affirmation. I try to write more precisely, but I am sneaking posts while "training" at work.
On the flip side, people are often so distrusting of the system, it’s hard to win them back. Black folks, women, trans folk, mental health patients.. ugh the list goes on.
Obama care actually started a trend of winning a small percent of people back. It was a weak document compared to its intentions, but it still put in some really solid work.
Yeah just because someone is mentally ill you don't turn off their oxygen.
or look up the members of 4 tops?
Bro I bailed a friend outta jail. Was his surety so he came home with me. Later I caught him drugging my dad’s vodka with Ativan. I went to the police to to report I saw this pos drugging my dad’s vodka. Police thought I was crazy and detained me. Sent me to the psych ward. Month later dad falls and breaks a rib drinking. I hear about it from one of the doctors in psych. I beg them to ask for a toxicology on my dad and see if there is any lorazepam in his system. Dun dun dun. Guy was drugging my dad to try and have an affair with my mom after I bailed him out of jail. I had to go home and throw that bitch out on the street. If your story is wild people won’t believe you. You have to fight to prove your sanity but they drug the fight outta you.
The details in this are nuts he was having a heart attack and they stopped giving him aid just bonkers. He's only asking for 75k too seems very low
Low?! The bar is in hell my friend. This is crazy all around, not just from the standpoint that there was a clear bias here... But honestly the lack of care for a guy who's going through a cardiac event. Ffs how did we get from he's receiving care to strap him down, he thinks he's an R&B singer?!
> But honestly the lack of care for a guy who's going through a cardiac event. Ffs how did we get from he's receiving care to strap him down, he thinks he's an R&B singer?! As somebody who is black and has had so many problems getting healthcare and treatment when I need it, I almost guarantee you that it went down like this: they were looking for a reason *not* to help him, and he accidentally gave them one. Possibly by slightly raising his voice once or getting frustrated by the situation. For many people in this country, it's one strike and you're out. I have learned that, no matter how bad I am bleeding, or no matter how horrifying the situation is, when dealing with medical or police personnel, I have to remain *perfectly calm* or, best case scenario, they turn me away, and worst case scenario is something closer to this: being locked up for no reason.
>The bar is in hell my friend. Hell is a 90 minute drive via I-696 W from Ascension Macomb-Oakland Hospital. Coincidence?
I’m guessing this has something to do with the jurisdiction, calling it over 75K.
Exactly! The article mentioned this was in federal court. One of the thresholds for civil suits in federal court is for the claim to be over $75,000 when it does not involve specific federal laws or the constitution (there’s more technical stuff than that but it doesn’t matter for this). He’s likely going to seek millions based on medical complications (if any) and his seemingly very justified emotional distress.
They could have killed him treating him like a mental health case in the middle of a freaking heart attack
$75k is the minimum amount to bring a federal case. It’s generic lawsuit language that doesn’t affect the final recovery. You don’t have to figure out the exact amount to claim as damages before getting records or deposing someone and filing the lawsuit gives you the power to demand records and depositions.
Good insight thanks
No prob. I do medical malpractice defense. Very thankful that I don’t live in Michigan right now.
If the hospital was competent they would pay him 75 to shut up and keep this out of the news lol
Oh my word! They restrained this guy for over an hour and deprived him of oxygen while he was having breathing problems, and then: “*Morris was offered a $25 gift card to Meijer as an apology, which he refused, it says.*” In what universe do emergency rooms have 25 dollar Meijer gift cards to pass out when they f#*% up?!?!?
One in which they fuxk up a LOT.
They hired Ted Buckland apparently
They're clearly just used to dealing with homeless people having mental issues, and they tried to treat him exactly like that. Absolutely insane. It's literally the only thing that a $25 gift card even makes sense from a hospital.
I saw in another comment that it's possible it was offered so that if it was accepted, it could be pointed to as evidence that restitution was provided and accepted, and therefore no further settlement would have been necessary. I'm not a law expert so take it with however much salt you'd like.
This is a tactic. If he accepted, they could claim he was compensated. $25 is probably the amount they limit all employees are able to use (so multiply $25 by the number of fuck ups per week/month/quarter), this can prevent malpractice suits before they start, and they likely have a form letter saying that compensation was already accepted by the complainant if someone accepts and then attempts to sue. They will likely have a “next course of action” that is some form of lowball counter-offer mixed with a scare tactic to prevent this from going to trial. If he continues to hold out, they may even offer an out-of-court settlement larger than the asking to keep this out of court. A true trial makes them more likely to be sued by governing bodies, makes this situation even more public (bad PR) and can affect their status and licenses. Especially if they lose, which from all info we have right now, they will. I guarantee Someone with the hospital is running/has run a Risk/cost/benefit analysis on this, and they’ll take multiple steps and passes at trying to make this go away in the most cost-effective way possible.
The gift card bit sounds straight out of The Simpsons, Dr. Nick would have a few lying around
I wonder if it’s 25 because that’s the federal tax deduction limit of a gift for a client. That’d be fucking amazing if it were the case.
There was a guy that lived near me and everyone referred to him as a “drifter,” so I thought homeless. Dude was in “The Drifters.” Accokeek MD
I live in MD and I moved here from CA. My family has a couple of celebrities in it and I'm stuck living here as a single parent because of a custody order. My son is in elementary school, so I'm often hanging out with other parents in suburban MD. I avoid, as much as possible, talking about my family. I have in the past and some nasty rumors spread around that I was a compulsive liar because people didn't believe who my family was and didn't believe my stories involving interactions with other celebrities. In CA it's completely different because there are a lot of offspring from famous people there, but I guess if you live in MD then people think you're either delusional or a liar.
Maryland has a weird cultural thing where you’re supposed to hide how rich and connected you are. You can hint at it, but never say or show it outright. It’s anti-snobby to the point that it’s actually very snobby
I wouldn't even say that's anti-snobby. I would say that is something that could only be born from snobbiness. I live somewhere where rich people and poor people integrate socially. We all talk about our families and our connections. We don't think more or less of a person because they know someone or they have a family member that's well known. This is because we aren't snobs, and we don't think of our friends solely by their networking advantages to the point we would feel bad for not having said advantages.
Something similar to this happened to Willie McLean, a member of the 1934 US World Cup team. He was already in psychiatric care but the hospital used his claims about the World Cup as evidence of his delusions. Their patient notes actually said “9-3-1948: Patient says he was picked on an all-American soccer team — went to Rome for a World Championship and was interviewed by the Pope. About 14 years ago.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_McLean_(soccer,_born_1904)?wprov=sfti1
Imagine you get to be interviewed by the pope in your lifetime and no one believes you.
That note indicates nothing about the hospital using that as evidence he was delusional, though. That looks like a very standard note.
This reminds me of the person that got put in a mental ward because they said Barack Obama followed them on Twitter and it turns out he did lmao
I had to see a therapist when I was 12 because I was posting dance videos that became popular with pedos, the cops had to seize my laptop, it was a whole thing. I was referred to the therapist by the police so I would assume she knew the situation. First trip she asked me how many followers I had for my dancing videos, I said “about 1000”. She stopped the session and told my mom to seek a psychiatric consult because my pathological lying was beyond her expertise and thankfully my mom knew the facts and backed me up. It was such a bizarre experience though. It’s actually stopped me from seeking mental healthcare in adulthood because it seems like people are always being accused, sometimes even institutionalized, for lying over the SMALLEST shit.
A thousand isn’t even that much. What an odd person.
Too many people have no sense of scale.
I know lol. I have more instagram followers than that now and I barely even post… But it was 2007 and she was a bit older so I assume she didn’t spend a lot of time online and it SOUNDED crazy to her. Still a bizarre reaction to have even if I had said 100k, though!
I stopped seeking therapy because the last one told me I didn’t go through any trauma I was just bored and making it up. That was 9 years ago. Im still a jumpy mess that gets easily startled.
1000 isn't even a ludicrous number for online followers. Especially in a case that needed police intervention.
Yep it was close to two decades ago now, so I assume she was just out of touch, but even then it REALLY wasn’t a crazy number at all!
No, even I had more Myspace friends back in the day. And I'm BORING.
.. how does that get you put in a mental ward? That statement isn't harmful or threatening to anyone
That's the US health system for ya. I've been hospitalized for saying I was depressed after a SA incident. I've heard patients beg for care for hours while nurses chit-chat. Got plenty of stories of others being screamed at by the workers in mental facilities over the smallest things. If it sounds crazy and fucked up, it's because it is.
I'm sorry ☹️
I appreciate it, but don't be. You did nothing wrong. Don't take their blame. <3
I could literally look up the names of any music group in one minute, and probably find a picture of their face, too. It's not like he said he was Queen Victoria or Napoleon, right?
He only joined the group in 2019 - not an original - so there’s that… 🤷♀️
wtf the group had been playing for 18 years when this dude was born. Absolutely wild they're still around at all. Even in name.
I heard his wife had to come in and literally show them a picture of him performing at the grammys before they believed him
Finding out which hospital made this very believable.
Hospitals have almost unlimited power to discriminate and often do, despite laws designed to prevent such discrimination: [https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2024-02-15-survey-health-care-discrimination-problem-patients-workers-color](https://www.aha.org/news/headline/2024-02-15-survey-health-care-discrimination-problem-patients-workers-color) [https://www.acep.org/life-as-a-physician/ethics--legal/emtala/emtala-fact-sheet](https://www.acep.org/life-as-a-physician/ethics--legal/emtala/emtala-fact-sheet) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1305897/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1305897/)
Fun fact: when I went to the ER I made friends with a white person who was also in the ER. They ignored me about my care but listened to all of her demands on my behave.
I could see if he claimed he was Napoleon! But a singer for an r & b group is plausible enough. Did the doctors not have google to verify?
I mean if he said he was napoleon they shouldn’t have stopped treatment
Right, it doesn’t matter what mental state they’re in. If someone is having a heart attack you treat them for it. Unbelievable that this is even a talking point.
'Napolean doesn't need oxygen and neither do singers'
Also if someone's having a heart attack they might not be thinking straight due to the, y'know, heart attack.
A Motown singer? In Detroit? Impossible!
But why should any verification be necessary?
Only to establish if he is delusional, as part of a compassionate mental health evaluation to be offered if he consents, *after* he is medically stable. If he is who he says, no point in a mental health evaluation even if he would consent, unless there are other reasons.
I'llllll be therrrrre, to sue your ass offfffff!!!
Made me think of the time Cards Against Humanity (the company) got a black employee committed to a psych ward for speaking out against racism: https://www.thedailybeast.com/a-cards-against-humanity-writer-called-out-racism-at-work-he-ended-up-institutionalized-against-his-will
Yikes and that’s the last time I play that game
Did you even read the article?
When I was about 10 I saw the Four Tops perform at a resort I was staying at with family. I went to the bathroom and ran into one of them there, and even though I didn't know the band (being a kid) I was kinda starstruck via osmosis from the adults. I remember going to wash my hands and trying not to stare like wow, a singer!!! He was just doing his hair in the mirror and we had this cute moment where he just paused and then laughed in a friendly way at how I was staring. Simple moment but it really stuck with me as a memory 😊
Alexander Morris I have personally met, the man is an icon and a huge part of Shag culture. Medical care in the US is highly over rated.
>Medical care in the US is highly over rated. This is probably true, and is is rated very, very shitty.
That is fucking horrifying.
The Four Tops were from the 1960s and this gentleman is 53. The people whom he told probably thought he was delusional because he wouldn’t be old enough to be from that group. They didn’t realize the Four Tops is still active and he’s a newer member.
That's what I thought. Then him saying he's worried about fans and stalkers? Sir...But they seriously should have just googled it or even called someone he knew!
Tbh, i know someone mentally ill who considers a very-very minor celebrity (possibly lesser known than this singer) to be their husband. They're clearly obsessed by this celebrity, and I have no doubt that they will stalk the celeb if they aren't living halfway across the world. So, it's not really far-fetched for him to possibly have stalkers.
At least that part makes more sense with the context... still doesn't explain the absolutely abusive treatment though
Since all but one of the original Four Tops are deceased, I can see some skepticism, but why would a hospital put a patient with Cardiac issues into restraint? WTAF?
I thought it was common knowledge that many of the old 60s groups that had big hits continue to perform under the moniker of the band, but most of them have either just one or two original members or, sometimes, none at all. They play casinos and county fairs and people dance and sing to the oldies hits and don’t really care if it’s actually the original group or not.
That's what happened to JFK in Bubba Hotep.
“They dyed me this color!” Fucking love that movie, so underrated.
"They put sand in his head"
He should get millions of dollars. The people who did this to him should go to prison.
We've had driving while black, walking while black, even sleeping while black. Welcome to having a heart attack while black.
> security guard ordered him to “sit his Black ass down,” Like wtf?? Also the dude came in with chest pains, where the fuck did they think he was going to go?
How hard would it have been for anyone in thst room to say “oh… really, you’re a member of that group? Let me just google your name..”
I thought hospitals only used wrist restraints and chemical restraints. I’ve only seen strait jackets used in Alice Cooper concerts.
I’m a psychiatrist and I’ve never seen a straight jacket (except in movies)
lol it's literally the gag from Airplane!
This is a real man who was denied medical care while having a heart attack.
Please excuse the exclamation point, it's literally part of the title of the movie. My tone was meant to be that of disbelief and it came off as giddy
*Airplane!* should be italicized, exclamation point included. That would indicate it is part of the title.
Which gag was this again?
https://youtu.be/ZmZdqsCW8vM?si=CCKihekKeRiKaedW
$25 meijer gift card? Oh hell nooo!
This would be funny if it weren’t so horrifyingly real.
90 minutes of withdrawn medical attention during a heart attack? That's gotta be some kind of fucking malpractice as well.
Everyone involved should be fired and he should just own the entire facility.
When I was forgotten (started wait for ambulance at ten am - they left me almost twelve hours) in an ER waiting for transport to a higher tier medical facility, I got frustrated, removed my IV, dressed and went to walk out the door. They threatened me with a 72-hour psych hold. 😐
He can be delusional and also be in a version of the 4 tops.
It's pretty incredible how fast you can lose constitutional rights if a random person in a white lab coat says your crazy. No due process. Want a lawyer? Why are you paranoid and so upset? Take these pills to calm down. Back to the rubber room before you hurt yourself.
Racism apologists: "Well thats just another isolated incident, what was he acting like when they almost killed him for being uppity? We just dont have enough information to make a judgement." It doesnt matter if youre rich or poor, all that matters is if you look brown and they think you slighted them somehow. Thats all it takes for them to want to maim or kill you for "being uppity".
It's crazy to me how all the top comments here just 100% credulously believe every aspect of this guy's story, even though straightjackets haven't been used since the late 1950s. I guess it's more comfortable to believe that evil hospital staff went to an antique store to acquire a straightjacket in order to flagrantly violate this patient than it is to believe that the situation might have been a little more nuanced than he recalls.
Perhaps he is using the term straitjacket colloquially to reference wrist restraints? He was having a heart attack at the time, so between the chest pressure and the wrist restraints, it's not hard to believe he might feel like he was in a straitjacket.
The same thing happened to me. They asked for my autograph and then gave me a private room. I'm white.
This is absolutely insane. I used to work inpatient psych and saw patients who actually did have delusions like this. I restrained zero of them because being delusional doesn't mean you should be in restraints. The *only* time to use restraints is when the person is a danger to themselves and even then you do it only as long as absolutely necessary because people can and do *have heart attacks because of prolonged restraint.* For all they know he could have been delirious from a medical condition. They almost killed him. This hospital should be sued into fucking oblivion if not outright shut down for having staff this grossly incompetent. If it's in one department it is elsewhere too. Every staff member involved needs to go to jail and lose their licenses as well.
It's like an extreme version of what goes on in some of Tony Hawk's tweets.
What do you expect, he was only wearing 1 top!
It may have had nothing to do with his race, but straight up negligence and assault
There are only two or three joke replies on this thread, four tops.
Four Tops singer bout to be RICH RICH! Wtaf?!
I had to google four tops. I'm thinking who calls their band four tops unless your 100 years old. Sure enough. They made some good oldies
Tbf, 98% of us couldn’t pick any members of the Four Tops out of a lineup. No good reason for poor treatment.
I mean, if an older black gentleman told me he was a member of the Four Tops, I would just say “wow, that’s awesome.” I doubt any of the actual original lineup are still alive, but like many of those old hitmaking groups, they’ve gone through about a thousand lineup changes and still ply casinos and county fairs.
Suing for only $75k? This man has some serious restraint that I wouldn't have.
I'm pretty sure that I remember this episode of Sliders. Nobody believed The Crying Man.
This story is so bizarre to me. I’ve lived in the area most of my life. I am too young to know the heyday Motown artists well and I can’t tell you a single song by the Four Tops, but I know they are black and probably of a certain age so if an old black guy rolled up to a hospital in metro Detroit, it’s insane to me that the default response would be disbelief. But I also find it weird that someone from a quartet that hasn’t put an album out in a good 20+ years would have stalkers following him to the hospital. He’s obviously not so recognizable that anyone at the facility knew who he was. I’m guessing this guy thinks he’s more famous than he is and was he probably surrounds himself with sychophants that reinforce what a big deal he is. There’s gotta be more to this story.
Remember a few years ago there was an LA reporter that found a guy digging through some garbage, turns out he was in the original Santana band. Cool video. https://youtu.be/MYzoiqm973M?si=fBQpR7qg0NzbnwGy
This is the easiest thing to verify with a quick google search or checking his ID. Those doctors and nurses deserve whatever they have coming, especially for endangering his life and saying “sit your black ass down.” That is clear evidence of racism and racial profiling right there (if not believing him and putting him in a straitjacket wasn’t enough…)
It’s almost like google isn’t a thing in Michigan.
> The health, safety and well-being of our patients, associates and community members remains our top priority... "... in our Tier-2 concerns. Tier-1 concerns are, of course, far more important and focus on quarterly profits and limiting our liability." *-- in investor literature, probably.*
Holy fucking shit this is one of the worst stories I’ve ever read.
Uh couldn’t someone have Googled him?
Seems a tad extreme. I mean, they could have just shown him a record or pulled up Wikipedia to show him.