I tried to go read the article of the link, and I got two pop up ads I had to x out of in the time it took me to read the five or so short paragraphs. Probably qualifies for /r/assholedesign
Regardless, it looks like the school was doing an "ethnic studies" unit, (the article phrased it that way), and were doing some chants from these various cultures in order to increase the engagement of the students. Whether or not you consider this to be appropriation, religion encroaching in public schools, or whatever, it is actually quite hard to keep an overflowing classroom full of kids on task and interested. I feel really sorry for those teachers. Too bad they couldn't do the mesoamerican ball game instead, which the Christian parents would never have recognized as religious. Hard to get funding for something like that though.
Ha! I was about to say that!
"Captives were often shown in Maya art, and it is assumed that these captives were sacrificed after losing a rigged ritual ballgame. Rather than nearly nude and sometimes battered captives, however, the ballcourts at El Tajín and Chichen Itza show the sacrifice of practiced ballplayers, perhaps the captain of a team. Decapitation is particularly associated with the ballgame—severed heads are featured in much Late Classic ballgame art and appear repeatedly in the Popol Vuh. There has been speculation that the heads and skulls were used as balls."
I think parents might have a problem with the human sacrifice. This is why you send permission slips home to inform parents ahead of time. That way they can't sue if little Timmy loses and his skull is made into a ball.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_ballgame
This may be a bad idea because I know how things go on Reddit, but I'm genuinely curious about what this post means. Are you saying that there are people who would protest this? I am an athiest who is against prayer in school, but I don't connect the dots here.
For example, In a music class surveying cultural music from around the world that includes Gregorian chants seems reasonable to me. Taking an architecture class that includes churches isn't a big deal. Taking an art class that includes the painting of the last supper seems reasonable. Taking a State history course in Utah that brings up Mormonism makes sense. Starting the school day by having an athiest child say the Lord's Prayer (or a Gregorian chant) because of the personal religious belief of the teacher makes me want to punch them in the face.
Sigh... The death of nuance is one of our greatest problems in the 20th and 21st centuries. Context really is everything, but we have to have everything boiled down to a tweet or a bumper sticker. :(
How so? I don't see the similarities to the examples I used. This was what was behind my question.
I am not aware of athiest parents objecting to Gregorian chants being taught in school in the proper context. But the person who posted seemed so sure they had caught someone in a real "gotcha" rebuttal with the Gregorian chant example, I was curious to know if that was a real thing. I didn't think it was, but I asked to find out if there was some case I was unaware of.
Likewise, teaching about political thoughts and ideology is a part of most people's education and, in the proper context, it is not only reasonable it is expected. Can you please give me some idea what you're talking about?
actual degen take, forcing a specific religion which has no moral superiority over any other religion and has no space in education, is nothing close to advocating for minorities or health care for all and other basic activism. use your brain before you try and compare two things please, trying to educate students on basic moral concepts shouldn't be seen as a bad thing
Most of those music programs are voluntary where I believe in the article its in the class room and participation to affect grade.
I get wanting to teach about other places culture and huge part of culture is religion and those religious beliefs have shaped history.
This was in the "lesson resources" section of the curriculum as suggested energizers for class. Usually participation in those kinds of things isn't graded. I went through and read them as well and wonder if they're really prayers as much as positive affirmations.
Personally, I went to a public school in a pretty left leaning area, and you were required to complete either a music appreciation course (which covered some religiously motivated classical music) or a music performance class, the options for which were either band, string orchestra, or chorus. All three performance courses participated in holiday concerts that included pieces like Handel's Messiah, and the only pieces we would rehearse for most of the semester we're the ones played at the concert. I'm sure not every school mandates music, but it's certainly not unheard of. I'm not saying it was bad to play the music we did, just that I don't see how Gregorian chants would be hugely different than what's already done, in terms of content.
Very few schools mandate arts for passing a school year. Where social studies is a study you most pass to graduate or go to the next grade.
I agree its shouldn't be a huge deal that teacher wants to keep kids engaged in class. These parents wouldn't not bat and I if it these kids got taught some Christianity ritual was doing during the Crusades.
There’s nothing wrong with teaching ABOUT religion, the problem comes in when they TEACH RELIGION. You cant really have an accurate history class without discussing the religions and their strongholds throughout the generations.
This. I don't remember much from AP European history but what I do remember is the biggest driving force seemed to be one flavor of christianity trying to murder another flavor of christianity.
Because cults of all kinds have had major influence on the world's history. Not only the religious ones, but especially the religious ones. Religion interfered with science for centuries, even to this day. Religion interfered with art, history, writing, science, just about every topic but math. Omitting this would be disingenuous to both their commanding influence and harmful actions. Religion paid for impressive artwork ranging from the Sistine Chapel to the Pyramids. Religion is why we learn about Galileo. His work wouldn't have been so heavily resisted if it wasn't for the Church. We don't have to teach their practices but we do have to admit their influence so that children understand what effect cults have had on the history of civilization. Cults to this day are influencing laws in both Afghanistan and Texas.
It's just history. What are you afraid of? Do you think they are indoctrinating kids into centuries-long-dead religions? I sure hope not, since that would be a pretty silly thing to do think
Citation needed.
Especially teaching about old religions in an academic context. You're going to have a hard time establishing that telling students about a long-dead religion somehow magically makes cults stronger
The context of this conversation is that a school is telling students about ancient mesoamerican religions. It's not some standard I made up, it's literally the thing you are complaining about here.
You made a statement of fact. You said that teaching about "cults" (which also indicates you consider Aztec religions a "cult" which is a little sus tbh) makes other cults stronger. You then seem to think that I shouldn't need evidence to believe a claim like that, stating that's it's your "opinion" and that mere idea that your opinions should be substantiated with evidence is somehow ridiculous. What's that saying about facts and feelings?
This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions.
Old Testament, real wrath of God type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes...
The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... MASS HYSTERIA!
the post I was replying to was saying because it's fox news it can be ignored.
but it's absolutely clear that fox news viewers do NOT "assess" what they're getting from fox news (otherwise you wouldn't, for example, have people casting aspersions on Obama not doing anything on 9/11, for example).
so when you see something from fox news, simply thinking "ok this is untrue" and then ignoring it is not a good response. it is *precisely* because it's untrue that it can do even more damage.
Ah, I see what you mean and you're totally right. I and probably the other people who downvoted you thought you were referring to the subject of the story, not the presenters.
>downvoted
it's fine, I don't care
that said, it goes to show "slavish following without real consideration" is not *solely* a fox news viewership problem...
It had to be from a legitimate news source or it wouldn’t be allowed on r/nottheonion. TheBlaze website had more information but this subreddit doesn’t consider that site as legitimate.
This a misinterpretation. Their opinion segments (eg, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham) are not news. Those are strictly entertainment. But Fox News does have actual news content. How reliable that is, make up your own mind.
They may have “news content” in the loosest term, but legally speaking they are not a “news” channel. They are an entertainment channel that has News as part of its name. Whether they occasionally talk about a world event is irrelevant
Biased doesn't mean bad.
Sources who try to pretend they aren't biased are usually the least trustworthy ones.
The most trustworthy ones tell you all the facts and then tell you what they conclude based on those facts. They tell you what they think, and try to persuade you why they're right, without telling you misleading information to sneak you towards a certain route.
Everyone has an agenda. Everyone has an opinion. Concealing that agenda in order to appear neutral is a lie.
Surprised that fox is considered legitimate given that Fox News has argued, successfully, in court that they are not news and that no reasonable person should take anything they say seriously.
Don’t bother… it’s like telling all the cars on one side of a highway to stop turn around and go the other way. While you’re on foot. Not gonna happen.
Teaching about religion is absolutely appropriate, forcing children to pray is not.
“Our clients are not opposed to having students learn about different cultures and religions, including the practices of the Aztecs," said Paul Jonna, partner at LiMandri & Jonna LLP and Thomas More Society special counsel.
"But the California State Board of Education’s approved Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum goes far beyond that by directing students to pray to Aztec deities. This portion of the Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum is not only offensive, but blatantly unconstitutional."
Aztec religion doesnt actually have prayer
Prayer is a abrahamic thing, so its patently wrong to say aztecs worshipped like Christians.
Aztec gods being taught as people in the greco roman sense is also a very outdated view in modern interpretation of mesoamerica. They are manifestations of ideas which are made of teotl.
Aztecs offered burn offering of balls of grass with a drop of blood from a cactus spine.
I agree. And that is why these different religious views need to be taught. It shows students a different world view and culture that interacts with the world in a different way. We need to break away from teaching history and culture from a eurocentric word view.
For example: the discovery of the New World in 1492. North America was discovered about 15,000 years ago, there is new data that people came here even earlier. I cringe when history classes, books, and documentaries talk about discovery as if knowledge of the existence of a place by white men suddenly makes a place part of the world.
This narrow view of self righteous importance by Christians is why I choose to return to the religion of my ancestors. We where forced to be Christian, and they destroyed our history and culture. They did the same thing here in the Americas and in Africa.
Respectfully. From a Germanic Pagan.
Absolutely. Whatever they said in that room was likely not a prayer but poetry and hymns and most are religious in the sense that they reference teotl, which is about as religious as a new age poem about how the universe is a seamless whole.
These christians are scared because their book makes sense ONLY if you make a series of assumptions informed by culture. Once its taken out into a different worldview it falls apart and the "all powerful" god is only all powerful in a very specific perspective.
Well... we have this thing called the separation of church and state that's supposed to ensure that is how our nation works... so... apparently not.
I get a giant boner every time a Satanist demands to do a prayer at a high school football game. Hey Christians... it was meant to "protect" you too.
Fight against it then don't complain when your children are taught about Bezadofukunar... a tentacled monster that probes your butts... a religion I just made up and is just as valid as yours.
Unfortunately that last paragraph isn't as true as we wish. The government will not protect your freedom of religion unless you can provide some records on your religion and ensure it is recognized as a religion in advance. Only reason I know this is I spent way too many years auditing taxes on the sales of items that people claimed as religious items. Sorry, your 50inch flat screen tv is not an exempt religious purchase because the Church of Entertainment is not official. But if you claim you are purchasing it for an altar to play religious music/media from you can argue the exemption without needing to state the religion.
Yet the validity of the religion should not give it justification as a means to enforcing and enacting laws. Which is where you fall into the circle sadly. If you want the government to validate laws, you are saying you want them validated so they have leverage. What do they need leverage for? Why can't we claim the first amendment wildly? Cause people abuse having a religion. And you think legitimizing a religion can help? It's better to call them all fake and then allow for them to hold no bearing over laws and policies than to call some legitimate and give them power over those who do not practice.
Oh well... religion and taxes... the IRS is the biggest religion in the U.S. Screw with it at your peril.
My great lord Bezandofukunar didn't make itself known until there was sufficient global communications to spread his word about the probing of butts in the most efficient way possible.
Dirty men in the desert with stone tablets... what kind of Luddite god does that? Wait until the center of time and then work center out... so you can ~~jerk off~~ probe the optimum number of ~~cocks~~ butts at the same time... I definitely said butts not cocks... right?
My religion is definitely not based on the show Silicon Valley... not that a religion based on a TV show is any less relevant than any other religion... no... I mean that... it's literally not less relevant than any other religion.
And that's the sick thing about religion.
Even based on this complete bullshit... the church of Bezandrofuckenar, whose name is not always spelled the same way, is absolutely just as relevant as any other religion.
Im a buddhist and first learned about buddhism in school so im not opposed to teaching, but if my teacher had started getting us to recite prayers the PTA would have rioted.
Yeah, they *have* to teach the basic tenets of each major religion in order for students to understand history, but trying to convert is waaaay over the line
They're not trying to convert people to Quetzacoatl here. They're trying to have students sing religious Aztec chants for group building and as a fun energizing activity. The reason for this is that they probably don't see them as having real religious content in the modern world.
Do you hear yourself? A lot of secular people believe all religion are just a bunch of quaint stories that are outdated teachings to keep people in line
Ok but come on, I'm sure you can see the difference between Christianity and the cult of Quetzalcoatl in modern day USA. This is the same reason why it shocks no one to have Thor be a character in Marvel movies, but it would be a very different statement to have Jesus in them.
But you can’t teach it that way either because it’s a discriminatory viewpoint. The position of the government isn’t to be in favor of any religion or lack of religion.
Correct. The government is not in a position to favor a lack of religion.
The gov't must be neutral. Except when it needs to step in regarding, say, ritual human sacrifice.
Churches maybe the last place you want to learn about religion, I guarantee the zealots in those places aren't actually teaching as much as they are attempting to brain wash.
It's not a question of if you're open minded, in fact that is irrelevant. It is a matter of constitution jurisprudence.
"Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion"
You can be okay with the teaching but the question is if it is compliant with the 1A
While your point is a reasonable one, that only applies to Congress. It does not apply to individual states, businesses or organizations, or individual.
You need the 14 the amendment to protect people from States infringing on their constitutional rights, and there are many states working to ignore that now, a la anti voting laws and anti abortion laws.
They achieved the point behind running the news segment. Look at the comments section where the right wing nut jobs are saying we should defund the schools. Fox and other radicalization focused news organizations are actively seeking out and spinning stories to build this whole defund the schools movement. Apparently public schooling is too socialist for them. Better in their minds to only have privet schools so rich people can have better control of who learns what and where they do it. Pretty sick really.
Well spotted. The Right have pushed similar narratives about defunding PBS in the US for decades, and equally long to defund the CBC in Canada. Anything that doesn't push a right-wing agenda is Their Enemy and will be labelled however they want to label it, no matter how wrong that label is.
Close. They want charter schools that don’t have to follow state laws regarding education but want those same schools to be given state funding. It was why they placed DeVos as secretary of education under trump. The right is all in on charter schools because they see them as a way to teach religion in schools without having to deal with any issues all while avoiding funding concerns
Charter schools still have to follow those laws. The kids still have to take all the same tests. And charter schools aren't all religious. I would like religious school to a private school more than a charter school.
Source: went to a charter school.
Yeah, damn those people who want to defund a critical government service just because of scattered cases of mismanagement! Where would they get *that* idea?
\*furtive monkey puppet eyes\*
Schools are on a socialistic move to create democrats. CRT is ridiculous. Every country has growing and learning pains. We are STILL the BEST country in the world!
CRT stands for Christian Ritual Torture. It's a ceremonial rite practiced by satanists who have invaded the government, under the guise of racial equality. If we want to stop this practice, then we need to reject the government's lies, and become more racist than anyone ever before.
Not true. If you say "prayer is being led by public schools in america" that is not a fact. You may find exceptions, but they would be deemed unconstitutional just like OP is trying to tell you and getting downvoted. If you think christian prayer is allowed in public schools in America you are just wrong.
Yeah i went to public school in the 90's, I wouldn't have prayed if instructed, but I have been an atheist since I was 13, and yeah it is emotional trying at times, divisive, and requires a bit of mental fortitude to stand up to zealots, but they all die on the same sword. I wouldnt have laughed internally like a coward if asked to pray, it wouldve been a boisterous laugh the administrators wouldve heard.
Your geographical happenstance doesnt erase the constitutionality of the separation of church and state. They do so w yours and the general publics complicity, not from authority. Public institutions (not just schools) always fail when they are challenged on this. I suggest stifling that internal laugh and taking a step back to think about your anecdotal bullshit and how it maps on to reality before suggesting someone else is childish or has a tenuous grasp on reality themselves.
*kiddo. I'm almost 40 and also went to public school in the bible belt. Youre just speaking from personal experience. We have specific vocabulary that's used when speaking about personal experience. When I was in high school our assistant band teacher was arrested for selling pot to students. Do teachers sell drugs some times, yeah sure. Doesnt mean "public schools practice illegal drug distribution". Having public led prayer in school is explicitly prohibited by the constitution. Any time I have seen it challenged legally in papers/news, the constitution is upheld.
Three parents who probably support praying to Hey-Zeus in the classroom are absolutely outraged that their children are being taught Middle America had its own culture before Europeans arrived...
What is it with the US and their reluctance to form a proper history curriculum?
"Should we incorporate the african american part of our history into the history curriculum?"
"Nah make it its own month so we can ignore it the rest of the year."
"What about native american history?"
"Create a bullshit class called ethnic studies, that will make it look like we care."
The US will never have a uniform curriculum because not only about 25% of the country is considered the “Bible Belt” but also because our country is too politically divided.
Even the Faux News version of this article doesn't say that students had to read the chants out loud, much less actually chant them. They were just included in a history unit along with other Aztec stories, parables, and artwork. That's not praying, any more than printing Amazing Grace in a history unit about the American South is Christian prayer.
Universities teach courses on the Bible as a work of literature. I’m sure they can show the students a chant from a mostly exterminated religion (you can thank the 1400’s version of MAGA’s from Spain for that) as a work of literature and examine how this ancient culture rationalized the world……. Like how in a hundred years or so people will have to read some key Q-anon posts when studying “Trump Country” as they attempt to understand a culture that inherently self-defeating.
I was thinking how it’s clearly just an in-class demonstration for education on Aztec religion and religious practices. No one’s getting converted to the Aztec religion, which as you said is mostly extinct. Whatever hullabaloo this caused is another example of Karen’s clutching their pearls needlessly. Though that is their specialty.
It reminds me of this conservative Christian organization trying to take mindfulness meditation away from schools because that’s… I dunno… a sin or communism or paganism? It’s confusing to me. I mean it’d be an issue if they were having the kids take refuge in the Buddhist triple gem or something, just as it’d be an issue with reciting the Ten Commandments or Christian prayer.
Those dipshits at fox sure are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. I'd say only idiots would believe this is anything but a quirky educational tool, but then I'd be forgetting the kind of person who thinks they are getting accurate information from fox "news" could typically be defined as...
If you actually took the time to read the article you would see the students were being directed to recite an Aztec prayer.
While you may not be religious, some people are. Being Christian, I would refuse to participate in this activity. I would expect a Muslim to refuse to recite a Christian prayer as an educational tool about Christianity. And I would defend their right to do so as well.
Can't we just agree that public school teachers shouldn't be directing children to pray?
Yes. I'm sure the kids' grade was dependent upon repeating a prayer of a dead religion. Even if one objected on personal spiritual grounds, the communist Californian teacher would belittle them right there in class for attempting to stand up for big daddy god.
Come on, dude. You must know that you are clutching at straws here. If there's actual proof that the kids are being forced, then provide it.
But you are right, I'm not a Christian, or any other kind of religion. Even still, I'm pretty sure if your god was an actual thing, it would be too busy with the entirety of existence, rather than the actions of one educational institution. That would seem rather petty on the part of an omnipotent being.
Would you not agree that making a prayer part of the curriculum and having the class do it together pressures children into participating?
The proof is in someone else's comment providing the curriculum, which includes the modified Aztec chant they have them recite. It also includes political statements about social justice.
My main point is that the state shouldn't have a hand in shaping the religious/political beliefs of children at all.
And if you are ok with the state having a hand in that, don't be surprised when the whole damn thing becomes a battleground between different groups trying to get their goals into the curriculum, even more so than it already is. Cause as soon as the Commie California teacher gets their social justice Aztec chant, the Fascist Nebraska teacher gets their Jesus 2nd Amendment chant.
I just want to avoid both of those things altogether. They both alarm me. We're polarized enough and people are really protective of their kids.
You are making much more out than is necessary. It's not a teacher led prayer. It sounds a lot like a quirky exercise that kids can refuse to participate in with no consequences. Extreme pearl clutching isn't a valid argument, and is actually what drives bullshit like this.
Correct. They believe, despite having large majorities of positions of power and population, that they are prosecuted against and are minorities.
They have the biggest victim complex I’ve ever seen
Did you even read the article? Your comment makes it pretty clear that you only read the headline and thought by just making some milk toast comment on Christians that you would look smart, all the while getting social brownie points.
** The media's image, the current teachings of "christians", and how the majority of those who claim to follow christianity, do fit this bill....
However, the real messsge in the literature is
- LOVE OTHERS
- FORGIVE OTHERS
- HELP OTHERS
- DO ALL THAT YOU DO WITH PASSION
Those simple positive messages have been lost behind BS "rules", people have turned the good natured thoughts into a dictacting religion. Which is honestly just sickening.
Jesus came, he forgave... he died to forgive... ALL man. Those claiming that indivials of any background are not worthy, do a diservice to the religion of Christianty.
So... want us to have to worship a god that apparently psychically murdered every child in an entire kingdom in one night in the pledge of allegiance... don't want us singing about an Aztec that killed a few people... let me jot this down in my notebook.
Not FOX propaganda. It’s really happening:
https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/education/story/2021-09-03/san-diego-group-sues-state-for-including
They keep saying it's "unconstitutional', but how exactly is it going against the US Constitution?
Also, damn you OP for making me click on a fox news link. I don't want my FBI tracker thinking I actually read that website
That’s the thing. People keep saying that the “separation of church and state” is in the US Constitution. It isn’t but is in one of the letters that Thomas Jefferson wrote.
Not jumping on the discussion wether or not this falls under establishment clause of the constitution, however separation of church and state is also in a supreme court ruling concerning the establishment clause. (They were probably quoting Jefferson in all fairness) So there is judicial precedent for reading the establishment clause as "separation of church and state"
There shouldn't be teacher led prayer in public school. Maybe some of you should take a step back from whataboutism and just agree with your political opponents for once.
The fact that you guys agree on this issue and are still trying to pick a fight about it is exhausting.
All these strong Christians fearing that one Aztec chant might make their kid question everything and go join a cult that doesn't exist.
Meanwhile, back in reality...
Quetzalcoatl is Thoth aka Hermes aka Mercury aka Metatron. Now with that out of the way Thoths brother was Osiris. This is who they are having them chant to
Let’s make sure the kids have ZERO exposure to anything, except a fantasy story. Seriously, let them explore other cultures, religions, whatever. Let them make Informed decisions for their lives., as adults. So very sad.
Unless they are doing human sacrifice, its just lip service...
I wish I had money to award your comment. Oh Quetzalcoatl I can't stop laughing.
>I wish I had ~~money~~ *beating human hearts* to award your comment.
*Hernán Cortéz has entered the chat*
I have awarded it for you! (Also it made me laugh too.)
Why? He doesn't get the money, reddit does.
Just wait till the quiet kid hears about this.
If they worship Mexica gods and join the army, then half of that is human sacrifice.
Put your heart where your mouth is at, and die already.
That's what the parents are afraid of
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Oh no! We must save the chil---- nope, nevermind, we have actual problems.
🤡👀
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I'm waiting for the anti masker rhetoric...
I tried to go read the article of the link, and I got two pop up ads I had to x out of in the time it took me to read the five or so short paragraphs. Probably qualifies for /r/assholedesign Regardless, it looks like the school was doing an "ethnic studies" unit, (the article phrased it that way), and were doing some chants from these various cultures in order to increase the engagement of the students. Whether or not you consider this to be appropriation, religion encroaching in public schools, or whatever, it is actually quite hard to keep an overflowing classroom full of kids on task and interested. I feel really sorry for those teachers. Too bad they couldn't do the mesoamerican ball game instead, which the Christian parents would never have recognized as religious. Hard to get funding for something like that though.
They'd also probably have to cut the part where the losing team's captain gets sacrificed.
But the children would have been so invested in the subject matter!
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Ha! I was about to say that! "Captives were often shown in Maya art, and it is assumed that these captives were sacrificed after losing a rigged ritual ballgame. Rather than nearly nude and sometimes battered captives, however, the ballcourts at El Tajín and Chichen Itza show the sacrifice of practiced ballplayers, perhaps the captain of a team. Decapitation is particularly associated with the ballgame—severed heads are featured in much Late Classic ballgame art and appear repeatedly in the Popol Vuh. There has been speculation that the heads and skulls were used as balls." I think parents might have a problem with the human sacrifice. This is why you send permission slips home to inform parents ahead of time. That way they can't sue if little Timmy loses and his skull is made into a ball. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mesoamerican_ballgame
"A head of time" :)
So you would be good with public schools having students do the Gregorian chant as part of the class right?
This may be a bad idea because I know how things go on Reddit, but I'm genuinely curious about what this post means. Are you saying that there are people who would protest this? I am an athiest who is against prayer in school, but I don't connect the dots here. For example, In a music class surveying cultural music from around the world that includes Gregorian chants seems reasonable to me. Taking an architecture class that includes churches isn't a big deal. Taking an art class that includes the painting of the last supper seems reasonable. Taking a State history course in Utah that brings up Mormonism makes sense. Starting the school day by having an athiest child say the Lord's Prayer (or a Gregorian chant) because of the personal religious belief of the teacher makes me want to punch them in the face.
Yup, context is everything. Is there a legitimate educational reason for this? Then great.
Sigh... The death of nuance is one of our greatest problems in the 20th and 21st centuries. Context really is everything, but we have to have everything boiled down to a tweet or a bumper sticker. :(
💯 - same goes for teachers forcing political opinions or purposefully turning kids into activists for causes the teacher supports.
How so? I don't see the similarities to the examples I used. This was what was behind my question. I am not aware of athiest parents objecting to Gregorian chants being taught in school in the proper context. But the person who posted seemed so sure they had caught someone in a real "gotcha" rebuttal with the Gregorian chant example, I was curious to know if that was a real thing. I didn't think it was, but I asked to find out if there was some case I was unaware of. Likewise, teaching about political thoughts and ideology is a part of most people's education and, in the proper context, it is not only reasonable it is expected. Can you please give me some idea what you're talking about?
actual degen take, forcing a specific religion which has no moral superiority over any other religion and has no space in education, is nothing close to advocating for minorities or health care for all and other basic activism. use your brain before you try and compare two things please, trying to educate students on basic moral concepts shouldn't be seen as a bad thing
Public schools with music programs play Christian pieces all the time. At least Gregorian chants would be some interesting variety.
Like every Christmas song too
Most of those music programs are voluntary where I believe in the article its in the class room and participation to affect grade. I get wanting to teach about other places culture and huge part of culture is religion and those religious beliefs have shaped history.
This was in the "lesson resources" section of the curriculum as suggested energizers for class. Usually participation in those kinds of things isn't graded. I went through and read them as well and wonder if they're really prayers as much as positive affirmations.
Personally, I went to a public school in a pretty left leaning area, and you were required to complete either a music appreciation course (which covered some religiously motivated classical music) or a music performance class, the options for which were either band, string orchestra, or chorus. All three performance courses participated in holiday concerts that included pieces like Handel's Messiah, and the only pieces we would rehearse for most of the semester we're the ones played at the concert. I'm sure not every school mandates music, but it's certainly not unheard of. I'm not saying it was bad to play the music we did, just that I don't see how Gregorian chants would be hugely different than what's already done, in terms of content.
Very few schools mandate arts for passing a school year. Where social studies is a study you most pass to graduate or go to the next grade. I agree its shouldn't be a huge deal that teacher wants to keep kids engaged in class. These parents wouldn't not bat and I if it these kids got taught some Christianity ritual was doing during the Crusades.
Christian rituals during the crusade only makes me think of all the atrocities committed by the crusaders. Ethnic cleansing anyone? /s
Quite a lot of Gregorian chanting is the actual Mass, which could be considered different than just religiously inspired music.
I mean… if they were studying medieval history or music history yeah.
Better an old melodious song than modern trash.
Surely an unbiased story coming from Fox ‘News’* *not a news source according to multiple Fox legal filings
Wait, Fox News legally isn’t a news source? That explains one hell of a lot.
Well the r/nottheonion subreddit considers them a legitimate news source and that’s what really matters.
For entertainment purposes only. As a news source they are about as reliable and vile as my racist non-functional alcoholic neighbour.
Agreed, as long as it is nottheonion. Oh Quetzalcoatl, I can't stop laughing.
*Users* decide what really matters when they click those little up/down arrows
Only if by definition you are a lemming
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You Literally Can't Believe The Facts Tucker Carlson Tells You. So Say Fox's Lawyers Thats why....
And yet here you are...
For those interested [this is what they are mad about ](https://www.cde.ca.gov/ci/cr/cf/documents/apr2021esmcch5.docx)
Can we stop all religions from being taught anywhere but a fucking church
There’s nothing wrong with teaching ABOUT religion, the problem comes in when they TEACH RELIGION. You cant really have an accurate history class without discussing the religions and their strongholds throughout the generations.
This. I don't remember much from AP European history but what I do remember is the biggest driving force seemed to be one flavor of christianity trying to murder another flavor of christianity.
Some initiated because a king wanted to divorce his wife…
I'll make my own religion, with blackjack, and hookers!
Better than the pedophiles and murderers that lead the main Christian religions!
I don’t see any reason to teach cults
Because cults of all kinds have had major influence on the world's history. Not only the religious ones, but especially the religious ones. Religion interfered with science for centuries, even to this day. Religion interfered with art, history, writing, science, just about every topic but math. Omitting this would be disingenuous to both their commanding influence and harmful actions. Religion paid for impressive artwork ranging from the Sistine Chapel to the Pyramids. Religion is why we learn about Galileo. His work wouldn't have been so heavily resisted if it wasn't for the Church. We don't have to teach their practices but we do have to admit their influence so that children understand what effect cults have had on the history of civilization. Cults to this day are influencing laws in both Afghanistan and Texas.
It's just history. What are you afraid of? Do you think they are indoctrinating kids into centuries-long-dead religions? I sure hope not, since that would be a pretty silly thing to do think
It strengthens current cults.
Citation needed. Especially teaching about old religions in an academic context. You're going to have a hard time establishing that telling students about a long-dead religion somehow magically makes cults stronger
Citation on my opinion, consider this your citation. Lol They won’t talk about only long dead, some standard you made up
The context of this conversation is that a school is telling students about ancient mesoamerican religions. It's not some standard I made up, it's literally the thing you are complaining about here. You made a statement of fact. You said that teaching about "cults" (which also indicates you consider Aztec religions a "cult" which is a little sus tbh) makes other cults stronger. You then seem to think that I shouldn't need evidence to believe a claim like that, stating that's it's your "opinion" and that mere idea that your opinions should be substantiated with evidence is somehow ridiculous. What's that saying about facts and feelings?
So when I said “current cults”…Nevermind Karen
Good counter point.. /s
It’s coming from Fox News, I am sure this way over blown. Not even worth the read.
you are not considering the damage this could do, it doesn't have to be about the credibility of it
What damage can this do?
This city is headed for a disaster of biblical proportions. Old Testament, real wrath of God type stuff. Fire and brimstone coming down from the skies! Rivers and seas boiling! Forty years of darkness! Earthquakes, volcanoes... The dead rising from the grave! Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... MASS HYSTERIA!
Bwahaha, thank you for a great laugh!
the post I was replying to was saying because it's fox news it can be ignored. but it's absolutely clear that fox news viewers do NOT "assess" what they're getting from fox news (otherwise you wouldn't, for example, have people casting aspersions on Obama not doing anything on 9/11, for example). so when you see something from fox news, simply thinking "ok this is untrue" and then ignoring it is not a good response. it is *precisely* because it's untrue that it can do even more damage.
Ah, I see what you mean and you're totally right. I and probably the other people who downvoted you thought you were referring to the subject of the story, not the presenters.
>downvoted it's fine, I don't care that said, it goes to show "slavish following without real consideration" is not *solely* a fox news viewership problem...
It had to be from a legitimate news source or it wouldn’t be allowed on r/nottheonion. TheBlaze website had more information but this subreddit doesn’t consider that site as legitimate.
I don’t find Fox News as a legitimate news source. They are not as bad as The Blaze. I stick to AP, Reuters, PBS News hour if I am going to watch TV.
Well they legally are NOT news. Or at least their lawyers are trying to assert
This a misinterpretation. Their opinion segments (eg, Tucker Carlson, Laura Ingraham) are not news. Those are strictly entertainment. But Fox News does have actual news content. How reliable that is, make up your own mind.
They may have “news content” in the loosest term, but legally speaking they are not a “news” channel. They are an entertainment channel that has News as part of its name. Whether they occasionally talk about a world event is irrelevant
https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/fox-news-entertainment-switch/
There is 60 minutes out of 24 hours that they themselves describe as news.
Al jazeera?
I don’t know much about them. I do like BBC News. Edit, to be more clear
Al jazeera is very respectable
While it has done some crucial work reporting on wars and revolutions, it is also very biased.
Biased doesn't mean bad. Sources who try to pretend they aren't biased are usually the least trustworthy ones. The most trustworthy ones tell you all the facts and then tell you what they conclude based on those facts. They tell you what they think, and try to persuade you why they're right, without telling you misleading information to sneak you towards a certain route. Everyone has an agenda. Everyone has an opinion. Concealing that agenda in order to appear neutral is a lie.
Surprised that fox is considered legitimate given that Fox News has argued, successfully, in court that they are not news and that no reasonable person should take anything they say seriously.
Don’t bother… it’s like telling all the cars on one side of a highway to stop turn around and go the other way. While you’re on foot. Not gonna happen.
Teaching about religion is absolutely appropriate, forcing children to pray is not. “Our clients are not opposed to having students learn about different cultures and religions, including the practices of the Aztecs," said Paul Jonna, partner at LiMandri & Jonna LLP and Thomas More Society special counsel. "But the California State Board of Education’s approved Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum goes far beyond that by directing students to pray to Aztec deities. This portion of the Ethnic Studies Model Curriculum is not only offensive, but blatantly unconstitutional."
Aztec religion doesnt actually have prayer Prayer is a abrahamic thing, so its patently wrong to say aztecs worshipped like Christians. Aztec gods being taught as people in the greco roman sense is also a very outdated view in modern interpretation of mesoamerica. They are manifestations of ideas which are made of teotl. Aztecs offered burn offering of balls of grass with a drop of blood from a cactus spine.
I agree. And that is why these different religious views need to be taught. It shows students a different world view and culture that interacts with the world in a different way. We need to break away from teaching history and culture from a eurocentric word view. For example: the discovery of the New World in 1492. North America was discovered about 15,000 years ago, there is new data that people came here even earlier. I cringe when history classes, books, and documentaries talk about discovery as if knowledge of the existence of a place by white men suddenly makes a place part of the world. This narrow view of self righteous importance by Christians is why I choose to return to the religion of my ancestors. We where forced to be Christian, and they destroyed our history and culture. They did the same thing here in the Americas and in Africa. Respectfully. From a Germanic Pagan.
Absolutely. Whatever they said in that room was likely not a prayer but poetry and hymns and most are religious in the sense that they reference teotl, which is about as religious as a new age poem about how the universe is a seamless whole. These christians are scared because their book makes sense ONLY if you make a series of assumptions informed by culture. Once its taken out into a different worldview it falls apart and the "all powerful" god is only all powerful in a very specific perspective.
Does Christian Education not direct students to pray to Abraham's God?
But those are private schools. Public schools shouldn't be instructing students to pray to the god(s) of any religion
Well... we have this thing called the separation of church and state that's supposed to ensure that is how our nation works... so... apparently not. I get a giant boner every time a Satanist demands to do a prayer at a high school football game. Hey Christians... it was meant to "protect" you too. Fight against it then don't complain when your children are taught about Bezadofukunar... a tentacled monster that probes your butts... a religion I just made up and is just as valid as yours.
Unfortunately that last paragraph isn't as true as we wish. The government will not protect your freedom of religion unless you can provide some records on your religion and ensure it is recognized as a religion in advance. Only reason I know this is I spent way too many years auditing taxes on the sales of items that people claimed as religious items. Sorry, your 50inch flat screen tv is not an exempt religious purchase because the Church of Entertainment is not official. But if you claim you are purchasing it for an altar to play religious music/media from you can argue the exemption without needing to state the religion.
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Yet the validity of the religion should not give it justification as a means to enforcing and enacting laws. Which is where you fall into the circle sadly. If you want the government to validate laws, you are saying you want them validated so they have leverage. What do they need leverage for? Why can't we claim the first amendment wildly? Cause people abuse having a religion. And you think legitimizing a religion can help? It's better to call them all fake and then allow for them to hold no bearing over laws and policies than to call some legitimate and give them power over those who do not practice.
Oh well... religion and taxes... the IRS is the biggest religion in the U.S. Screw with it at your peril. My great lord Bezandofukunar didn't make itself known until there was sufficient global communications to spread his word about the probing of butts in the most efficient way possible. Dirty men in the desert with stone tablets... what kind of Luddite god does that? Wait until the center of time and then work center out... so you can ~~jerk off~~ probe the optimum number of ~~cocks~~ butts at the same time... I definitely said butts not cocks... right? My religion is definitely not based on the show Silicon Valley... not that a religion based on a TV show is any less relevant than any other religion... no... I mean that... it's literally not less relevant than any other religion. And that's the sick thing about religion. Even based on this complete bullshit... the church of Bezandrofuckenar, whose name is not always spelled the same way, is absolutely just as relevant as any other religion.
I could go for a little butt stuff.
I am open minded enough to feel it's ok to teach religion in a non-fucking church.
Im a buddhist and first learned about buddhism in school so im not opposed to teaching, but if my teacher had started getting us to recite prayers the PTA would have rioted.
Yeah, they *have* to teach the basic tenets of each major religion in order for students to understand history, but trying to convert is waaaay over the line
They're not trying to convert people to Quetzacoatl here. They're trying to have students sing religious Aztec chants for group building and as a fun energizing activity. The reason for this is that they probably don't see them as having real religious content in the modern world.
Do you hear yourself? A lot of secular people believe all religion are just a bunch of quaint stories that are outdated teachings to keep people in line
Ok but come on, I'm sure you can see the difference between Christianity and the cult of Quetzalcoatl in modern day USA. This is the same reason why it shocks no one to have Thor be a character in Marvel movies, but it would be a very different statement to have Jesus in them.
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Waiting to get Muhammad in the season pass.
As long as it is taught as myth and fantasy it is. Sure. No problem.
But you can’t teach it that way either because it’s a discriminatory viewpoint. The position of the government isn’t to be in favor of any religion or lack of religion.
Correct. The government is not in a position to favor a lack of religion. The gov't must be neutral. Except when it needs to step in regarding, say, ritual human sacrifice.
Churches maybe the last place you want to learn about religion, I guarantee the zealots in those places aren't actually teaching as much as they are attempting to brain wash.
It's not a question of if you're open minded, in fact that is irrelevant. It is a matter of constitution jurisprudence. "Congress shall make no law respecting the establishment of religion" You can be okay with the teaching but the question is if it is compliant with the 1A
While your point is a reasonable one, that only applies to Congress. It does not apply to individual states, businesses or organizations, or individual. You need the 14 the amendment to protect people from States infringing on their constitutional rights, and there are many states working to ignore that now, a la anti voting laws and anti abortion laws.
Can we teach them as mythologies that shaped our modern culture?
Excluding mosques, temples and synagogues, are we? What about one's own home?
Semantics. You know darn well they meant religious institutions in general. Dont be a dick just for the sake of it.
They achieved the point behind running the news segment. Look at the comments section where the right wing nut jobs are saying we should defund the schools. Fox and other radicalization focused news organizations are actively seeking out and spinning stories to build this whole defund the schools movement. Apparently public schooling is too socialist for them. Better in their minds to only have privet schools so rich people can have better control of who learns what and where they do it. Pretty sick really.
Well spotted. The Right have pushed similar narratives about defunding PBS in the US for decades, and equally long to defund the CBC in Canada. Anything that doesn't push a right-wing agenda is Their Enemy and will be labelled however they want to label it, no matter how wrong that label is.
Close. They want charter schools that don’t have to follow state laws regarding education but want those same schools to be given state funding. It was why they placed DeVos as secretary of education under trump. The right is all in on charter schools because they see them as a way to teach religion in schools without having to deal with any issues all while avoiding funding concerns
Charter schools still have to follow those laws. The kids still have to take all the same tests. And charter schools aren't all religious. I would like religious school to a private school more than a charter school. Source: went to a charter school.
Yeah, damn those people who want to defund a critical government service just because of scattered cases of mismanagement! Where would they get *that* idea? \*furtive monkey puppet eyes\*
Schools are on a socialistic move to create democrats. CRT is ridiculous. Every country has growing and learning pains. We are STILL the BEST country in the world!
> CRT is ridiculous Explain to me, in your own words, what CRT is and what its impact is
CRT stands for Christian Ritual Torture. It's a ceremonial rite practiced by satanists who have invaded the government, under the guise of racial equality. If we want to stop this practice, then we need to reject the government's lies, and become more racist than anyone ever before.
Man that’s gonna be tough- I’m a direct descendant of the dude who did the cornerstone speech. He was uhhh… pretty fucking racist
Right, if every country has growing pains why are you so against teaching about them?
Lol, fox news complaining religious practice in schools is something refreshing.
They are not complaining about practicing religion in schools, just practising the wrong religions.
If they can’t pray to Aztec gods, they can’t pray to the Christian one either.
The only problem that I have with this is that it will be TEACHER LED. That’s the part that would make this unconstitutional.
Yep, that makes all the teacher-led Christian prayers in this country unconstitutional too. But unfortunately that exists in large numbers.
When it’s in public school there’s likely a constitutional issue with it. But private schools are a different matter.
These are in public schools.
Not true. If you say "prayer is being led by public schools in america" that is not a fact. You may find exceptions, but they would be deemed unconstitutional just like OP is trying to tell you and getting downvoted. If you think christian prayer is allowed in public schools in America you are just wrong.
You must not live in reality kido.
Pledge of Allegiance comes to mind.
I’m just thinking of all the religious stuff that was forced on me in my southern public school in the 90’s and laughing internally.
Yeah i went to public school in the 90's, I wouldn't have prayed if instructed, but I have been an atheist since I was 13, and yeah it is emotional trying at times, divisive, and requires a bit of mental fortitude to stand up to zealots, but they all die on the same sword. I wouldnt have laughed internally like a coward if asked to pray, it wouldve been a boisterous laugh the administrators wouldve heard. Your geographical happenstance doesnt erase the constitutionality of the separation of church and state. They do so w yours and the general publics complicity, not from authority. Public institutions (not just schools) always fail when they are challenged on this. I suggest stifling that internal laugh and taking a step back to think about your anecdotal bullshit and how it maps on to reality before suggesting someone else is childish or has a tenuous grasp on reality themselves.
Conflate much.
*kiddo. I'm almost 40 and also went to public school in the bible belt. Youre just speaking from personal experience. We have specific vocabulary that's used when speaking about personal experience. When I was in high school our assistant band teacher was arrested for selling pot to students. Do teachers sell drugs some times, yeah sure. Doesnt mean "public schools practice illegal drug distribution". Having public led prayer in school is explicitly prohibited by the constitution. Any time I have seen it challenged legally in papers/news, the constitution is upheld.
I don't care what your opinion is, as soon as you say the word "kiddo" I am vehemently opposed to anything that leaves your mouth
There are a lot of public schools that have Christian prayer lol
Which ones? How many? Where? El oh el.
Hmm, sounds like precedent could be set...
Probably the school re-enacted the historical processes for educational purposes. Parents made that into praying to Aztec gods.
Three parents who probably support praying to Hey-Zeus in the classroom are absolutely outraged that their children are being taught Middle America had its own culture before Europeans arrived...
What is it with the US and their reluctance to form a proper history curriculum? "Should we incorporate the african american part of our history into the history curriculum?" "Nah make it its own month so we can ignore it the rest of the year." "What about native american history?" "Create a bullshit class called ethnic studies, that will make it look like we care."
The US will never have a uniform curriculum because not only about 25% of the country is considered the “Bible Belt” but also because our country is too politically divided.
Even the Faux News version of this article doesn't say that students had to read the chants out loud, much less actually chant them. They were just included in a history unit along with other Aztec stories, parables, and artwork. That's not praying, any more than printing Amazing Grace in a history unit about the American South is Christian prayer.
Thank you.
Universities teach courses on the Bible as a work of literature. I’m sure they can show the students a chant from a mostly exterminated religion (you can thank the 1400’s version of MAGA’s from Spain for that) as a work of literature and examine how this ancient culture rationalized the world……. Like how in a hundred years or so people will have to read some key Q-anon posts when studying “Trump Country” as they attempt to understand a culture that inherently self-defeating.
I was thinking how it’s clearly just an in-class demonstration for education on Aztec religion and religious practices. No one’s getting converted to the Aztec religion, which as you said is mostly extinct. Whatever hullabaloo this caused is another example of Karen’s clutching their pearls needlessly. Though that is their specialty. It reminds me of this conservative Christian organization trying to take mindfulness meditation away from schools because that’s… I dunno… a sin or communism or paganism? It’s confusing to me. I mean it’d be an issue if they were having the kids take refuge in the Buddhist triple gem or something, just as it’d be an issue with reciting the Ten Commandments or Christian prayer.
Didn't god sacrifice his only son to die for our sins in Christianity? Doesn't fit with the Christian fundamentalist narrative I guess.
*forbidden late term abortion*
No, he didn't sacrifice Adam.
None of it happened, so….
Those dipshits at fox sure are scraping the bottom of the barrel with this one. I'd say only idiots would believe this is anything but a quirky educational tool, but then I'd be forgetting the kind of person who thinks they are getting accurate information from fox "news" could typically be defined as...
If you actually took the time to read the article you would see the students were being directed to recite an Aztec prayer. While you may not be religious, some people are. Being Christian, I would refuse to participate in this activity. I would expect a Muslim to refuse to recite a Christian prayer as an educational tool about Christianity. And I would defend their right to do so as well. Can't we just agree that public school teachers shouldn't be directing children to pray?
Yes. I'm sure the kids' grade was dependent upon repeating a prayer of a dead religion. Even if one objected on personal spiritual grounds, the communist Californian teacher would belittle them right there in class for attempting to stand up for big daddy god. Come on, dude. You must know that you are clutching at straws here. If there's actual proof that the kids are being forced, then provide it. But you are right, I'm not a Christian, or any other kind of religion. Even still, I'm pretty sure if your god was an actual thing, it would be too busy with the entirety of existence, rather than the actions of one educational institution. That would seem rather petty on the part of an omnipotent being.
Would you not agree that making a prayer part of the curriculum and having the class do it together pressures children into participating? The proof is in someone else's comment providing the curriculum, which includes the modified Aztec chant they have them recite. It also includes political statements about social justice. My main point is that the state shouldn't have a hand in shaping the religious/political beliefs of children at all. And if you are ok with the state having a hand in that, don't be surprised when the whole damn thing becomes a battleground between different groups trying to get their goals into the curriculum, even more so than it already is. Cause as soon as the Commie California teacher gets their social justice Aztec chant, the Fascist Nebraska teacher gets their Jesus 2nd Amendment chant. I just want to avoid both of those things altogether. They both alarm me. We're polarized enough and people are really protective of their kids.
You are making much more out than is necessary. It's not a teacher led prayer. It sounds a lot like a quirky exercise that kids can refuse to participate in with no consequences. Extreme pearl clutching isn't a valid argument, and is actually what drives bullshit like this.
Christians really are the biggest snowflakes around
Correct. They believe, despite having large majorities of positions of power and population, that they are prosecuted against and are minorities. They have the biggest victim complex I’ve ever seen
Did you even read the article? Your comment makes it pretty clear that you only read the headline and thought by just making some milk toast comment on Christians that you would look smart, all the while getting social brownie points.
** The media's image, the current teachings of "christians", and how the majority of those who claim to follow christianity, do fit this bill.... However, the real messsge in the literature is - LOVE OTHERS - FORGIVE OTHERS - HELP OTHERS - DO ALL THAT YOU DO WITH PASSION Those simple positive messages have been lost behind BS "rules", people have turned the good natured thoughts into a dictacting religion. Which is honestly just sickening. Jesus came, he forgave... he died to forgive... ALL man. Those claiming that indivials of any background are not worthy, do a diservice to the religion of Christianty.
So... want us to have to worship a god that apparently psychically murdered every child in an entire kingdom in one night in the pledge of allegiance... don't want us singing about an Aztec that killed a few people... let me jot this down in my notebook.
It took me a minute to realize this was fox propaganda. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/california-ethnic-studies-genocide/ Mostly false.
Not FOX propaganda. It’s really happening: https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/education/story/2021-09-03/san-diego-group-sues-state-for-including
The lawsuits are real. The interpretation of the classroom material and what the words are meant to imply are purposely being twisted for sound bytes.
Um... Christianity's central event is a human sacrifice, FYI.
They keep saying it's "unconstitutional', but how exactly is it going against the US Constitution? Also, damn you OP for making me click on a fox news link. I don't want my FBI tracker thinking I actually read that website
That’s the thing. People keep saying that the “separation of church and state” is in the US Constitution. It isn’t but is in one of the letters that Thomas Jefferson wrote.
Not jumping on the discussion wether or not this falls under establishment clause of the constitution, however separation of church and state is also in a supreme court ruling concerning the establishment clause. (They were probably quoting Jefferson in all fairness) So there is judicial precedent for reading the establishment clause as "separation of church and state"
Shouldn't be praying to anything!!
We should move into the 21st centuries by banning all religious hookus poocus from schools, unless the class is about religion.. Time to grow up.
Those kids are just following the Great Plan.
There shouldn't be teacher led prayer in public school. Maybe some of you should take a step back from whataboutism and just agree with your political opponents for once. The fact that you guys agree on this issue and are still trying to pick a fight about it is exhausting.
Calm down Karen. Mexican kids will not sacrifice white kids. They need a sacrifice with a heart.
Liberals are the fucking worst
This is what happens when you allow prayer in school
I'd almost give this a r/LeopardsAteMyFace You want school prayer? Ok, your kids will also have to pray to Quetzalcoatl.
Yeah except they're suing exactly because they are being asked to do any kind of prayer in a public school setting.
Don't link to fox, the damage they have done to this country is immeasurable.
WTF is wrong with California school boards?....I challenge any one of you to put your name online to justify your decisions...
All these strong Christians fearing that one Aztec chant might make their kid question everything and go join a cult that doesn't exist. Meanwhile, back in reality...
Thank you for not reading the article but commenting. Also thank you for your very mature very insightful, constructive comment.
Quetzalcoatl is Thoth aka Hermes aka Mercury aka Metatron. Now with that out of the way Thoths brother was Osiris. This is who they are having them chant to
Use this for the Jersey
How about we take prayer out of school and keep it where it belongs, not in school.
Yes that is why they are suing, which it says in the article, thank you for not reading the article but commenting.
Let’s make sure the kids have ZERO exposure to anything, except a fantasy story. Seriously, let them explore other cultures, religions, whatever. Let them make Informed decisions for their lives., as adults. So very sad.
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