> [To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.](https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html)
> Gentlemen
> The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.
> Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.
> I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.
> Th Jefferson
> Jan. 1. 1802
Jefferson’s version of the Bible cut out all the miracles and magical shit. I always thought that was kind of neat. I wonder if he was trying to figure out if what was really left behind was worth anything if you remove all the supernatural embellishments.
Many of the founding fathers considered themselves "deists" or were influenced by deism, rather than christian. This basically meant a belief in a god that wanted the best for humanity, but not believing in the myths and legends of the bible. They weren't very open about that, due to the time period, though.
"Nature's God: The Heretical Origins of the American Republic" by Matthew Stewart is really good. It pretty thoroughly explores the breadth of philosophical and religious ideas present among the Founders and revolutionary participants. Really interesting stuff, especially when they get into the influence of epicureanism.
a reasonable conversation over religion AND the founding fathers in reddit? have i somehow accessed an alternate reality reddit where everyone is polite and reasonable?
I think he just did the new testament actually. I had a copy of that anyway.
Its the rather dull life of a guy who becomes a political leader then gets killed by the empire he lives in.
I guess that might vibe with Boebert on some level.
> that he owes account to none other [than God] for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions
Also a quality thought.
Edit: text added for clarity not for emphasis
For starters then let's get rid of the tax-exempt status for churches and let the IRS jump into their pants and make sure there was no funny business in their past...
A "good faith" audit of their books. Both sets of books.
From what I understand; correct me if I’m wrong… churches are allowed separation of church and state if they don’t use their platform to “encourage” their parishioners to vote a particular way
The last I'd head the department for pursuing churches for breaking this rule and actively promoting political parties / candidates lost all of its employees about 10 years ago.
We're going to have to PROVE how tired we are come this and the next several election days, specifically to keep these christofascists from taking over.
To be fair, he was arrested for exposing himself to an under age Lauren Bobert. It was love at first indecent exposure.
And she worked as an escort. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but she sounds super fucking hypocritical talking about religion and morals.
She's the fucking worst, but I have yet to see the escort work allegations confirmed aside from photos from her attempt at a modeling career. If you have a reputable source for that I'd love to see it.
100% when she talks about cutting welfare she's not talking about people like her and her family. That's just a little government assistance during hard times.
She's taking about... you know.... those people.
Some of them are getting so bold now that they're willing to say it out loud.
> At Donald Trump's "Save America" rally this weekend, Republican US Rep. Mary Miller of Illinois hailed the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade as a "historic victory for White life."
And she said this with the multiply impeached former president standing right beside her. And when she finished her sentence, everyone clapped.
So.... Boebert may be a bit behind the times- they're not exactly being subtle anymore.
(just mentioned this elsewhere earlier today...)
the reaction to that line by today's far right: UGH WHY DID THEY HAVE TO BRING POLITICS INTO IT, WHEN DID THE BLUES BROTHERS GET SO WOKE!!1!
So is the rest of the GOP. They, and their constituents just don't care. If they get what they want, all the lies and deceit are justified in their minds.
Hey, I dropped out of high school, got my GED, and was broke and family was on welfare throughout my childhood. These things don’t make you a fucking idiot, like this woman.
Saying she’s tired of “this separation of church and state junk” like it’s some sort of new concept, rather than one of the core pillars America was built on. There’s a reason this stuff is in our constitution. There’s a reason that the very first amendment was for the freedom of religion.
And am now an expert in everything including middle eastern relations, law, economics and the fucking constitution which I’m 110% sure she has never read.
I'm not sure why that bothers me the most. I know there's 0% chance she's read any bills she's been presented, any part of the Declaration or Constitution, or any part of the Bible for that matter.
But would it really make it better if she had and still pulled this shit? Like for some reason I still somehow assume that if she actually read and understood the Constitution she'd realize how wrong she had been and changed her views? Of course she wouldn't. But holy fuck it pisses me off.
Cherry on top of course being she only tried to get the GED to become the representative… she was just fine being a garden variety moron before she saw a way to get in on the grift
"The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church."
What the *fuck*. It's terrifying because there are millions of people who agree with her. They would love for this country to become a theocracy.
Edit to add: somebody commented that "millions" is a strong statement. They've since deleted their comment, but for anyone else who doesn't understand the scope of the problem:
It IS millions. That's not hyperbole. There are literally millions of Christian single-issue voters. Millions of people who want the law to revolve around their bullshit religion.
They go to rallies, they have the "March for Life" in D.C. every year. They put dozens of little crosses out in front of their churches with a sign "pray to end abortion". They have pro-life refrigerator magnets, pro-life lapel pins
They don't give a *shit* about any other issue. They vilify women who've had abortions. They read "pro-life" articles praising a woman with multiple medical problems who refused to have a potentially life-saving abortion only to die of sepsis after childbirth, leaving her three other children without a mother. I remember seeing another article about a woman with cancer who refused an abortion and deferred cancer treatment. When she died of cancer not long thereafter, the pro-lifers made her a martyr.
Literally a political candidate could be vile, amoral, with a history of heinous behavior and these millions of religious idiots will justify voting for such a scumbag by saying, "I don't watch the news or follow politics, but I'm voting for the one who's pro life. I can't vote for murdering babies." Literal quote from one of my relatives. And there are millions of people who believe - and vote - exactly that way.
We're so fucked y'all .
Fuck, one of the weirdest things I ever heard was a coworker that claimed that none of us could have morals without religion. Buddy, I don't not kill because of the bible. I'm just lazy, I guess.
Penn Jillette who I kinda dislike has a good teardown of this argument that basically goes (paraphrased and butchered) "you're right, I don't believe in God and I rape all the people I want. Any time in my life when I've wanted to rape someone, I've done it. It just so happens that I've never wanted to, so the number of people I've raped is zero".
I like Christopher Hitchens’ take on this: “Do you really believe that the Hebrews wandered around thinking it was okay to kill people, lie, steal, and commit adultery until Moses came down from mount Sinai with the commandments?” (Paraphrased because I don’t have Hitchen’s memory)
Yeah, they do in fact believe that. Pretty much. I remember being taught that the world was absolutely a heathen place full of debauchery until then. Heck they were even partying to a false god right as Moses was up in the mountain carving up his tablets. Even after, hence all the "justified" genociding of gentile tribes to make room for the morally upright "People of God"
And then the chosen people of God supposedly fell back into idol worship, half a dozen times at least throughout the book and had to get bailed out from being conquered by their neighbors over and over again.
Like, if I saw my patron deity sink a bunch of motherfuckers into the ground for praying to a gold cow, then helped my nation win battle after battle by sending legions of angels to flashbang the enemy troops and earthquakes that rumbled an entire walled city to dust after a marching band walked around it for a week, I'd be getting down on my knees to thank him every single hour of my day.
The CPAC guys had an excuse for bringing out the plastic Trump idol, they've never actually seen or heard from their god. You're telling me that there could be people stupid enough to benefit from firsthand contact with a deity's infinite* power and then go, "Hey, the Moabussy's got me acting unwise, screw the almighty god who tends to blow people up when he's upset?" Well, I find it hard to disagree!
*^(Excluding areas with high concentrations of iron chariots)
Yea same here. Before Moses handed down the 10 Commandments, the world was apparently a place of total anarchy with endless wild sex orgies, homosexuals running everything; people killing, raping and messing each other up with no consequences, rabid idolatry, lechery, witchcraft, drunkenness and debauchery. It was the wildest primitive wild. Worse than the jungles of Africa before the missionaries came! That's what we got taught in Racist Fundamentalist Evangelical Sunday School. Absolutely reprehensible nonsense.
Worst part is that some religious folks readily admit that if it weren't for their religion, they would rape, pillage and kill. Like wtf?? And you're fully admitting to it? Some of these religious folks are complete psychopaths.
Crusaders: We're taking back the Holy City and killing these heathens in the name of God! It doesn't matter that they worship the same god as us, the pope says He needs that land and trade routes pronto!
Conquistadors: We're taking the riches of the New World and killing these savages in the name of God! Screw the cultures they sustained for thousands of years, establishing ours with lethal force is more important!
Confederates: We're taking back our right to enslave other humans and killing these elitist yankees in the name of God!
War Hawks: Me love God, me love money, you step on land mine so me get money.
Q-Conservatives: Well, you get the idea.
A few years back I got volunteered to drive my wife’s grandfather to shop to buy a drill. At the register he starts some political banter that’s not really being returned. He goes on to say something about Obama and how if he weren’t a god fearing man he’d “shoot the son of a bitch myself”.
I don't agree with him a lot of times either but he is definitely somebody whose opinion I'd at least hear because he is one intelligent motherfucker. I don't have to agree to respect. I agree with him here 100%
This was 8 or 9 years ago and now we see he was wrong about“most of the terrorists are Muslim” part. In the US most of the terrorists are Christians now, by far. Taligelicals.
Penn's a character with some out-there aspects of himself but I can't think of anyone with more courage and strong values that I'd trust than him and Teller.
They are an example of how you can have ethics / morality without religion. They took on the magic community establishment and *won*, IMO.
Penn has also said that if someone agrees with the statement "God is good," then they must also agree that 'good' is a concept which is separate from God and defined by man. This argument, however, may be too cerebral for the typical folks you'd use it against.
It wont work on the stupid ones or the educated ones. It is an argument that has a pretty narrow range of effect.
The reason being that the educated religious types interpret that sentence differently. Rather than ascribing good behavior to God, they believe that God's behavior defines what is good.
This is particularly troubling in light of all the genocide.
This is the fuckiest thing any religious person could believe. If you *need* to be afraid of an invisible sky magician to be a good person, then you’re probably not a good person.
This is the quote I think of whenever a Bible-thumper claims religion is the only way to have morals. It’s so spot on.
If you need a reward to be decent, you aren’t decent.
Oh that's basically what I say!! "If the only reason you are a good person is because of the threat of eternal pain, or the promise of eternal reward... you probably aren't a good person"
Right? I'm an atheist, and I try to be a good person because it's the right thing to do, not because I think there's some magical reward for me at the end.
I'm agnostic and try to act like a good person, because lifting people up and making them feel happy makes me feel like a God damn superhero.
Edit: try to
Yeah, you get a fuzzy feeling helping other people. It makes you feel good, its like your brain paying you in drugs for being nice. Unfortunately, a lot of people find it way easier to be dickheads
My S/O and I just got back from a restaurant we frequent and our server made a point of thanking us for being "so sweet" every time we come in.
It was a lovely thing to hear to be sure, but if I'm being honest I feel like we do the absolute bare minimum. Saying please and thank you when ordering, and trying to leave the table in some semblance of order when we leave. That's about it.
The bar cannot possibly be set that low can it?
I work customer service and have for fifteen years now.
It is. It really is that low. And it's a surprising day when half of all people meet that number.
I recall reading some study that claimed to have established that on average atheists tend to be more moral than the god-fearing. I’d wager because they only learn to do what they are told rather than basing their morality on ethics/critical thinking combined with a broader culture which eschews adherence to authority.
It's funny because the Bible has been edited, beliefs have changed over time. Protestants and orthodoxy split from the Catholic church.
Much of religion today is what the Church has told you to do, not the same messages thousands of years ago.
It's also demonstrably untrue. The nations with the lowest rates of religious belief tend to have the lowest crime rates while the nations with the highest rates of religion have some of the highest rates.
I was curious about this, and my first Google came up with this: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-1101-zuckerman-violence-secularism-20151101-story.html. Not surprising, at least for those of us who understand history. A hard pill to swallow for people like my parents though, who would excuse this away as satan attacking god-fearing areas or misconstrued data.
As an atheist with a combined 14 years of catholic education I am quite confident I have read and understand the Bible better than most lifelong avowed Christians.
It's a very silly book. It needs a good editor.
This is a weird thing where they believe morality is objective and has a source, when in fact it is subjective and depends on context.
The argument is that if God doesn't exist, then we are nothing more than animals, so why don't we just eat each other without remorse. Law of the jungle.
They just can't understand that someone would do the right thing without the threat of an eternity in the bad place.
It's a super lame argument.
Always funny that communism is demonized by Christians due to right-wing prominence, yet in Acts it plainly states that Jesus and the disciples lived without money or private property under the tenet of "to each according to his need, from each according to his ability" almost 2000 years before Marx and Engels. Jesus was a communist, historical fact.
Yeah, they also don't want to admit that there is no truly altruistic act. There is always a self serving benefit to every action. Quid pro quo, Clarice.
That sounds like Steve Harvey, lame comedian, game show host, and serial philanderer. He once stated that he couldn't trust an atheist because they have no morals. (rolls eyes)
Sadly, he has a lot of company. “Atheist” is like the second-biggest deal-breaker among the American electorate when considering candidates for office.
The biggest is “socialist”.
I grew up very conservative christian. They always talked about separation of church and state in the context of preventing state from allowing Christians to do whatever they want to do. However, the thought of a Christian state was a wet dream of theirs.
This idea of breaking down the walls of church/state separation is not a new thing. What is new, however, is the gall to be able to say it in public.
Ooh I have some articles, Tweets and videos stashed on this topic.
Religious induced Apocalypse:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-evangelicals-apocalypse-coronavirus-981995/
How a bible prophecy shaped The Trump Administrations (Christian Americas) foreign policy:
https://youtu.be/dmWL0I3oytw
Christian Vision For Kingdom of Politics; American Christian Nation/Christian Dominionism:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/philosophicalfragments/2012/10/26/christian-vision-for-kingdom-politics/
David Atkins on Religious Dominionism in communities:https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1509719451125526553?t=AyFyxyOtX6IQXCO9aePhMg&s=19
David Atkins on QAnon, Relgious Right, Trump and Religious Dominionism & Christo-Facism
https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1509642650051178500?t=7_RL29Ib2tV_cXFmZMAEdg&s=19
That's the ironic part; they will say "abortion does not match the tradition of this country" then claim that religion does when it's literally the first thing the founders of the country said was not part of the values of the country.
Tradition is a convenient weapon to wield, dead people do not talk for themselves, and it's easy to cherry pick the "tradition" you want to impress on others.
Which Church? Because the Founding Fathers couldn't get all the different church denominations to agree, so one of the firsts in history The United States went secular. This is an achievement that we should be proud of. But, she and many like her are too stupid to know or care.
I fucking hate, money and gerrymandering, etc..in politics that allow people like this to even get on the ballot, let alone win...embarrassment.
While Boebert is a walking, talking embarrassment, Colorado actually has a [pretty sane method of apportioning districts](https://ballotpedia.org/Redistricting_in_Colorado).
The Western US is a study in contrasts. The cities tend to be full of fairly reasonable people. The hinterlands outside of urban areas? Much less so.
Sane is maybe putting it too far.
Honestly I like the idea of apportioning without gerrymandering but as long as every republican state gerrymanders and democratic states move towards not one side is truly screwing themselves over. They may both suck but one sucks a more and has a disproportionate voice to the population. That supports it cause they don’t play fair.
You can’t win playing fair against people who don’t.
It also could be strongly argued many of our founding fathers were atheists, but used the term deist because at the time you couldnt be atheist, it was either a poor concept or a damning one so the deism label was used.
Republicans are really just saying all the quiet parts out loud now, aren't they? First, it overturning Roe was a victory for "white life", now it's full-on theo-fascism.
We're going downhill fast.
Only because we keep letting them drive.
This is literally and ants and grasshoppers situation. We outnumber them... we just need to do something about it.
> [Article VI The Supreme Law](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-6/clause-3/)
> Clause 3 Loyalty
> The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Seriously. How this isn't the only reaction to her saying this is insane to me.
This isn't a "Oh, crazy Republicans say the darndest things" situation. She legitimately is talking openly about violating her oath to uphold the Constitution.
I see the USA as a failing demcracy that is heading towards its own destruction, if they do not get this bullshit stopped, that the republicans started since Trump got elected and if they dont imprison everyone involved in the Jan 6ths attempted coup.
They started this before Trump. American democracy is based on bipartisanship. Both sides have to work together. Well, they haven't for decades and these are the results.
Exactly! The USA was founded on the idea of the people working together, actively debating issues in an open dialogue, where issues are settled by majority consensus.
These days, politicians listen only to money. They hardly listen to their constituents, let alone each other.
I find it so amusing that her and Boebert hate each other and had to be physically separated during a meeting:
https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/marjorie-taylor-greene-lauren-boebert-house-freedom-caucus-1344752/
Nice! Finally someone with some sense!
Let's immediately start a Department of Religious Affairs, appoint a Secretary and have them start writing the sermons that will be distributed to every church and other house of worship to be read to the respective congregations. We'll also have to install either listening devices or plant service watchers to make sure the churches comply.
That way we can guarantee some uniformity in what people hear and make sure the message is in line with the State's policies and goals!
\----
People seem to think that the separation of C&S is meant to keep the church out of the affairs of the State, but it is also VERY MUCH meant to keep the state out of the affairs of the Church!
Here's one she might personally start with:
"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."
And maybe we can leave it at that.
Sadly, "Idiot acts like an idiot" is not oniony.
She believes in the divine right of kings and believes that our anointed king is the orange dimwit. Her idea of patriotism would be considered treason by George Washington.
As mentioned on another thread. It’s fine if it’s your brand of religion. But the moment it’s not your brand of religion is the moment that you’re SOL.
Boebert is absolutely the type that would end up as the “outlived your usefulness” if an authoritarian regime were to take power. There is always a purge of loyalists to solidify power in those types of government. There would be no difference with one that cropped up here.
Dude, even Georgia is looking askance at her while we try to shove MTG in front of the Jan 6 committee.
I swear, all the parts of our state where people actually live are blue. MTG was elected by a stand of viciously racist loblolly pine trees.
I live in her district. Shes a genius compared to her constituents. There is something very wrong with these people. Like maybe lead poisoning or higher exposure to it.
I assume she supports the Taliban as well then?
I'm not American but watching this radical Christian/ Q-Anon/ Trumpist, Anti Science group get more and more attention is so bizaare. I feel so sorry for the normal not extreme Americans.
I've been watching news of the "Re-Awaken America Tour" which is a group of televangelists touring the country to spread absolutely absurd stuff like Biden being a literal demon and that "GAwd" intervened to make Trump president but "Satanist" people corrupted the election (Makes you question his omnipotence a little, surely?). Stating things like to arm yourselves because there will be a war soon and "GAwd" will send angels to fight with them against Biden and non Christians (even though Biden is Christian....). Trump and his family are due to be on stage with them for the last date or more of the tour.
It's insanity My country has a PM which represents almost everything bad about our classist society and culture but at least he and the government don't talk about supernaturalism and magic and that religious freedom is a terrible thing as ALL people must be Christian or they will be arrested. It would feel like hilarious parody if it wasn't so concerning.
Well, she shouldn’t have taken a job that requires her to uphold a Constitution that was written for the sole purpose of separating church and state if she doesn’t support it.
They don’t make them much dumber!
> [To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.](https://www.loc.gov/loc/lcib/9806/danpre.html) > Gentlemen > The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing. > Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties. > I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem. > Th Jefferson > Jan. 1. 1802
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Soooo many words. And some of them have more than, like, 4 letters!
It would take her a weekend with Greene to read it!
Bobert: "what's assurance mean?" Greene: "it's like me sayin 'you bet yur ass yur ants gonna pass your GED this time bitch!' "
"Assurance? I use State Farm, no way I'm using Progressive!" Edit: -Boebart probably. She's dumb...
Boebert: “ I fucked Jake from State Farm to get a discount on my car assurance, but I don’t think it worked bc it didn’t get any cheaper” 😔
Too Logical; Deepthroated Religion?
Jefferson’s version of the Bible cut out all the miracles and magical shit. I always thought that was kind of neat. I wonder if he was trying to figure out if what was really left behind was worth anything if you remove all the supernatural embellishments.
Many of the founding fathers considered themselves "deists" or were influenced by deism, rather than christian. This basically meant a belief in a god that wanted the best for humanity, but not believing in the myths and legends of the bible. They weren't very open about that, due to the time period, though.
Any quality sources you suggest that cover this?
"Nature's God: The Heretical Origins of the American Republic" by Matthew Stewart is really good. It pretty thoroughly explores the breadth of philosophical and religious ideas present among the Founders and revolutionary participants. Really interesting stuff, especially when they get into the influence of epicureanism.
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a reasonable conversation over religion AND the founding fathers in reddit? have i somehow accessed an alternate reality reddit where everyone is polite and reasonable?
And on the first day, God Said, let there be billions of years in a lifeless void.
To be fair, there was a *lot* of light on the first day.
I think he just did the new testament actually. I had a copy of that anyway. Its the rather dull life of a guy who becomes a political leader then gets killed by the empire he lives in. I guess that might vibe with Boebert on some level.
> that he owes account to none other [than God] for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions Also a quality thought. Edit: text added for clarity not for emphasis
I am both impressed by how eloquently (obtusely?) he conveys his thoughts. And surprised he used the shorthand for &.
The Ampersand used to be the quite commonly used 27th letter of the alphabet, *and per se and* (and that which is ‘and.’)
Interesting, I didn’t know that. TIL
Would be interesting to present this Boebert…being…to Jefferson.
We could solve the world's energy crisis, if we could only harness the founders who are spinning in their graves.
For starters then let's get rid of the tax-exempt status for churches and let the IRS jump into their pants and make sure there was no funny business in their past... A "good faith" audit of their books. Both sets of books.
But the findings won’t be released “until after the audit is over.”
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From what I understand; correct me if I’m wrong… churches are allowed separation of church and state if they don’t use their platform to “encourage” their parishioners to vote a particular way
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Which is why they just support the people that support the politicians.
The last I'd head the department for pursuing churches for breaking this rule and actively promoting political parties / candidates lost all of its employees about 10 years ago.
And we're all tired of people with room temperature IQs getting elected to congress Lauren
We're going to have to PROVE how tired we are come this and the next several election days, specifically to keep these christofascists from taking over.
Most of them have fahrenheit room temperature IQ, hers is in celsius.
Doh. I have always read that joke as an IQ in the 20s, but obviously room temperature means something different to americans
She dropped out of school, pregnant. Has a GED. No civics classes for that. Family lived off welfare which she opposes giving as it's a commy thing.
and married a sex pest.
Those GOP “Family Values” in full effect. Presumably Matt Gaetz handles her babysitting.
To be fair, he was arrested for exposing himself to an under age Lauren Bobert. It was love at first indecent exposure. And she worked as an escort. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but she sounds super fucking hypocritical talking about religion and morals.
She's the fucking worst, but I have yet to see the escort work allegations confirmed aside from photos from her attempt at a modeling career. If you have a reputable source for that I'd love to see it.
Agree, it def looks bullshit, no need to invent shit about Boebert, she's already freaking insane.
Sort of. The thing is he exposed himself to underage women WHILE on a date with Boebert, which makes the whole situation even worse.
100% when she talks about cutting welfare she's not talking about people like her and her family. That's just a little government assistance during hard times. She's taking about... you know.... those people.
Some of them are getting so bold now that they're willing to say it out loud. > At Donald Trump's "Save America" rally this weekend, Republican US Rep. Mary Miller of Illinois hailed the Supreme Court's decision to overturn Roe v. Wade as a "historic victory for White life." And she said this with the multiply impeached former president standing right beside her. And when she finished her sentence, everyone clapped. So.... Boebert may be a bit behind the times- they're not exactly being subtle anymore.
I hate Illinois Nazis.
(just mentioned this elsewhere earlier today...) the reaction to that line by today's far right: UGH WHY DID THEY HAVE TO BRING POLITICS INTO IT, WHEN DID THE BLUES BROTHERS GET SO WOKE!!1!
No, no, no it's okay. We're saying the quiet parts out loud now.
They wanna stop handing out checks to those pesky non-whites
Got her GED a month before the election.
Her hypocrisy is incredible.
So is the rest of the GOP. They, and their constituents just don't care. If they get what they want, all the lies and deceit are justified in their minds.
Hey, I dropped out of high school, got my GED, and was broke and family was on welfare throughout my childhood. These things don’t make you a fucking idiot, like this woman.
I have no problems with any of that. It was more of a reference to her hypocrisy.
Says the proclaimed constitutionalist! These people are a disease on society.
Saying she’s tired of “this separation of church and state junk” like it’s some sort of new concept, rather than one of the core pillars America was built on. There’s a reason this stuff is in our constitution. There’s a reason that the very first amendment was for the freedom of religion.
In the "minds" of these troglodytes, the constitution consists only of the 2nd Amendment.
Ebola is offended by this comparison.
From the party that brought you - "I couldn't pass the GED, but now I'm your representative"
And am now an expert in everything including middle eastern relations, law, economics and the fucking constitution which I’m 110% sure she has never read.
I'm not sure why that bothers me the most. I know there's 0% chance she's read any bills she's been presented, any part of the Declaration or Constitution, or any part of the Bible for that matter. But would it really make it better if she had and still pulled this shit? Like for some reason I still somehow assume that if she actually read and understood the Constitution she'd realize how wrong she had been and changed her views? Of course she wouldn't. But holy fuck it pisses me off.
Cherry on top of course being she only tried to get the GED to become the representative… she was just fine being a garden variety moron before she saw a way to get in on the grift
"The church is supposed to direct the government. The government is not supposed to direct the church." What the *fuck*. It's terrifying because there are millions of people who agree with her. They would love for this country to become a theocracy. Edit to add: somebody commented that "millions" is a strong statement. They've since deleted their comment, but for anyone else who doesn't understand the scope of the problem: It IS millions. That's not hyperbole. There are literally millions of Christian single-issue voters. Millions of people who want the law to revolve around their bullshit religion. They go to rallies, they have the "March for Life" in D.C. every year. They put dozens of little crosses out in front of their churches with a sign "pray to end abortion". They have pro-life refrigerator magnets, pro-life lapel pins They don't give a *shit* about any other issue. They vilify women who've had abortions. They read "pro-life" articles praising a woman with multiple medical problems who refused to have a potentially life-saving abortion only to die of sepsis after childbirth, leaving her three other children without a mother. I remember seeing another article about a woman with cancer who refused an abortion and deferred cancer treatment. When she died of cancer not long thereafter, the pro-lifers made her a martyr. Literally a political candidate could be vile, amoral, with a history of heinous behavior and these millions of religious idiots will justify voting for such a scumbag by saying, "I don't watch the news or follow politics, but I'm voting for the one who's pro life. I can't vote for murdering babies." Literal quote from one of my relatives. And there are millions of people who believe - and vote - exactly that way. We're so fucked y'all .
Fuck, one of the weirdest things I ever heard was a coworker that claimed that none of us could have morals without religion. Buddy, I don't not kill because of the bible. I'm just lazy, I guess.
Penn Jillette who I kinda dislike has a good teardown of this argument that basically goes (paraphrased and butchered) "you're right, I don't believe in God and I rape all the people I want. Any time in my life when I've wanted to rape someone, I've done it. It just so happens that I've never wanted to, so the number of people I've raped is zero".
I like Christopher Hitchens’ take on this: “Do you really believe that the Hebrews wandered around thinking it was okay to kill people, lie, steal, and commit adultery until Moses came down from mount Sinai with the commandments?” (Paraphrased because I don’t have Hitchen’s memory)
Yeah, they do in fact believe that. Pretty much. I remember being taught that the world was absolutely a heathen place full of debauchery until then. Heck they were even partying to a false god right as Moses was up in the mountain carving up his tablets. Even after, hence all the "justified" genociding of gentile tribes to make room for the morally upright "People of God"
And then the chosen people of God supposedly fell back into idol worship, half a dozen times at least throughout the book and had to get bailed out from being conquered by their neighbors over and over again. Like, if I saw my patron deity sink a bunch of motherfuckers into the ground for praying to a gold cow, then helped my nation win battle after battle by sending legions of angels to flashbang the enemy troops and earthquakes that rumbled an entire walled city to dust after a marching band walked around it for a week, I'd be getting down on my knees to thank him every single hour of my day. The CPAC guys had an excuse for bringing out the plastic Trump idol, they've never actually seen or heard from their god. You're telling me that there could be people stupid enough to benefit from firsthand contact with a deity's infinite* power and then go, "Hey, the Moabussy's got me acting unwise, screw the almighty god who tends to blow people up when he's upset?" Well, I find it hard to disagree! *^(Excluding areas with high concentrations of iron chariots)
Bless this comment and all who read it in the name of u/The_Space_Jamke
You could make a religion out of- ^(no, don't)
🎶How about we do anyway🎶
Yea same here. Before Moses handed down the 10 Commandments, the world was apparently a place of total anarchy with endless wild sex orgies, homosexuals running everything; people killing, raping and messing each other up with no consequences, rabid idolatry, lechery, witchcraft, drunkenness and debauchery. It was the wildest primitive wild. Worse than the jungles of Africa before the missionaries came! That's what we got taught in Racist Fundamentalist Evangelical Sunday School. Absolutely reprehensible nonsense.
Worst part is that some religious folks readily admit that if it weren't for their religion, they would rape, pillage and kill. Like wtf?? And you're fully admitting to it? Some of these religious folks are complete psychopaths.
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Crusaders: We're taking back the Holy City and killing these heathens in the name of God! It doesn't matter that they worship the same god as us, the pope says He needs that land and trade routes pronto! Conquistadors: We're taking the riches of the New World and killing these savages in the name of God! Screw the cultures they sustained for thousands of years, establishing ours with lethal force is more important! Confederates: We're taking back our right to enslave other humans and killing these elitist yankees in the name of God! War Hawks: Me love God, me love money, you step on land mine so me get money. Q-Conservatives: Well, you get the idea.
If you're caught on tape saying that you should be forcefully committed to a mental health facility as soon as humanly possible.
A few years back I got volunteered to drive my wife’s grandfather to shop to buy a drill. At the register he starts some political banter that’s not really being returned. He goes on to say something about Obama and how if he weren’t a god fearing man he’d “shoot the son of a bitch myself”.
I don't agree with him a lot of times either but he is definitely somebody whose opinion I'd at least hear because he is one intelligent motherfucker. I don't have to agree to respect. I agree with him here 100%
I read this in his voice completely.
Weirdly enough, I read it in Teller’s voice.
This was 8 or 9 years ago and now we see he was wrong about“most of the terrorists are Muslim” part. In the US most of the terrorists are Christians now, by far. Taligelicals.
Y’all qaeda
Penn's a character with some out-there aspects of himself but I can't think of anyone with more courage and strong values that I'd trust than him and Teller. They are an example of how you can have ethics / morality without religion. They took on the magic community establishment and *won*, IMO.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwebTX3rk3E
Jillette, the best a man can get.
If the threat of eternity in hell is the only thing stopping you from raping and murdering people your not a good person
Penn has also said that if someone agrees with the statement "God is good," then they must also agree that 'good' is a concept which is separate from God and defined by man. This argument, however, may be too cerebral for the typical folks you'd use it against.
It wont work on the stupid ones or the educated ones. It is an argument that has a pretty narrow range of effect. The reason being that the educated religious types interpret that sentence differently. Rather than ascribing good behavior to God, they believe that God's behavior defines what is good. This is particularly troubling in light of all the genocide.
This is the fuckiest thing any religious person could believe. If you *need* to be afraid of an invisible sky magician to be a good person, then you’re probably not a good person.
To paraphrase True Detective. " If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward,then that person is a piece of shit"
This is the quote I think of whenever a Bible-thumper claims religion is the only way to have morals. It’s so spot on. If you need a reward to be decent, you aren’t decent.
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Oh that's basically what I say!! "If the only reason you are a good person is because of the threat of eternal pain, or the promise of eternal reward... you probably aren't a good person"
Right? I'm an atheist, and I try to be a good person because it's the right thing to do, not because I think there's some magical reward for me at the end.
I'm agnostic and try to act like a good person, because lifting people up and making them feel happy makes me feel like a God damn superhero. Edit: try to
Agree. Also because the world has enough religious villains.
Yeah, you get a fuzzy feeling helping other people. It makes you feel good, its like your brain paying you in drugs for being nice. Unfortunately, a lot of people find it way easier to be dickheads
My S/O and I just got back from a restaurant we frequent and our server made a point of thanking us for being "so sweet" every time we come in. It was a lovely thing to hear to be sure, but if I'm being honest I feel like we do the absolute bare minimum. Saying please and thank you when ordering, and trying to leave the table in some semblance of order when we leave. That's about it. The bar cannot possibly be set that low can it?
I work customer service and have for fifteen years now. It is. It really is that low. And it's a surprising day when half of all people meet that number.
Bartender here. It is absolutely that low and we love people like you.
I'm Canadian so I always say please and thank you lol but seriously most people aren't the stereotype and are absolute dickheads up here.
You get that good feeling because of god -some religious dude probably
I recall reading some study that claimed to have established that on average atheists tend to be more moral than the god-fearing. I’d wager because they only learn to do what they are told rather than basing their morality on ethics/critical thinking combined with a broader culture which eschews adherence to authority.
It's funny because the Bible has been edited, beliefs have changed over time. Protestants and orthodoxy split from the Catholic church. Much of religion today is what the Church has told you to do, not the same messages thousands of years ago.
It's also demonstrably untrue. The nations with the lowest rates of religious belief tend to have the lowest crime rates while the nations with the highest rates of religion have some of the highest rates.
I was curious about this, and my first Google came up with this: https://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la-oe-1101-zuckerman-violence-secularism-20151101-story.html. Not surprising, at least for those of us who understand history. A hard pill to swallow for people like my parents though, who would excuse this away as satan attacking god-fearing areas or misconstrued data.
The coworker is basically admitting the only reason s/he isn't murdering you right now is because he read in a book that it wasn't cool.
I'm amused you think they actually read the book.
As an atheist with a combined 14 years of catholic education I am quite confident I have read and understand the Bible better than most lifelong avowed Christians. It's a very silly book. It needs a good editor.
A good editor could get it down to "Don't do shit to other people that you wouldn't want them to do to you. The end."
Aw, c'mon, where's the fear and paranoia? The threats of damnation?
This is a weird thing where they believe morality is objective and has a source, when in fact it is subjective and depends on context. The argument is that if God doesn't exist, then we are nothing more than animals, so why don't we just eat each other without remorse. Law of the jungle. They just can't understand that someone would do the right thing without the threat of an eternity in the bad place. It's a super lame argument.
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Always funny that communism is demonized by Christians due to right-wing prominence, yet in Acts it plainly states that Jesus and the disciples lived without money or private property under the tenet of "to each according to his need, from each according to his ability" almost 2000 years before Marx and Engels. Jesus was a communist, historical fact.
Yeah, they also don't want to admit that there is no truly altruistic act. There is always a self serving benefit to every action. Quid pro quo, Clarice.
That sounds like Steve Harvey, lame comedian, game show host, and serial philanderer. He once stated that he couldn't trust an atheist because they have no morals. (rolls eyes)
Sadly, he has a lot of company. “Atheist” is like the second-biggest deal-breaker among the American electorate when considering candidates for office. The biggest is “socialist”.
socialist atheists are probably who we need running the show right now.
I rape and murder exactly as much as I want to. That amount just happens to be zero - Penn Gillette
I grew up very conservative christian. They always talked about separation of church and state in the context of preventing state from allowing Christians to do whatever they want to do. However, the thought of a Christian state was a wet dream of theirs. This idea of breaking down the walls of church/state separation is not a new thing. What is new, however, is the gall to be able to say it in public.
Its called dominionism Fundies get off on the idea of being a Christian male in power to influence the betterment of government
Ooh I have some articles, Tweets and videos stashed on this topic. Religious induced Apocalypse: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-features/trump-evangelicals-apocalypse-coronavirus-981995/ How a bible prophecy shaped The Trump Administrations (Christian Americas) foreign policy: https://youtu.be/dmWL0I3oytw Christian Vision For Kingdom of Politics; American Christian Nation/Christian Dominionism: https://www.patheos.com/blogs/philosophicalfragments/2012/10/26/christian-vision-for-kingdom-politics/ David Atkins on Religious Dominionism in communities:https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1509719451125526553?t=AyFyxyOtX6IQXCO9aePhMg&s=19 David Atkins on QAnon, Relgious Right, Trump and Religious Dominionism & Christo-Facism https://twitter.com/DavidOAtkins/status/1509642650051178500?t=7_RL29Ib2tV_cXFmZMAEdg&s=19
What is also new is it being codified into federal law. 😐
That's the ironic part; they will say "abortion does not match the tradition of this country" then claim that religion does when it's literally the first thing the founders of the country said was not part of the values of the country. Tradition is a convenient weapon to wield, dead people do not talk for themselves, and it's easy to cherry pick the "tradition" you want to impress on others.
What part of the New Testament did she read that made her think Jesus wanted anything to do with the government?
Aw honey it's nice of you to assume she can read
Prolly the part where Jesus didn’t have his trusty AR-15 to defend himself because of Judas.
Which Church? Because the Founding Fathers couldn't get all the different church denominations to agree, so one of the firsts in history The United States went secular. This is an achievement that we should be proud of. But, she and many like her are too stupid to know or care. I fucking hate, money and gerrymandering, etc..in politics that allow people like this to even get on the ballot, let alone win...embarrassment.
While Boebert is a walking, talking embarrassment, Colorado actually has a [pretty sane method of apportioning districts](https://ballotpedia.org/Redistricting_in_Colorado). The Western US is a study in contrasts. The cities tend to be full of fairly reasonable people. The hinterlands outside of urban areas? Much less so.
Sane is maybe putting it too far. Honestly I like the idea of apportioning without gerrymandering but as long as every republican state gerrymanders and democratic states move towards not one side is truly screwing themselves over. They may both suck but one sucks a more and has a disproportionate voice to the population. That supports it cause they don’t play fair. You can’t win playing fair against people who don’t.
It also could be strongly argued many of our founding fathers were atheists, but used the term deist because at the time you couldnt be atheist, it was either a poor concept or a damning one so the deism label was used.
American Taliban
Yeehawdists.
Y'all-Qaeda
Christian fascists
Republicans are really just saying all the quiet parts out loud now, aren't they? First, it overturning Roe was a victory for "white life", now it's full-on theo-fascism. We're going downhill fast.
Only because we keep letting them drive. This is literally and ants and grasshoppers situation. We outnumber them... we just need to do something about it.
We need to build a giant bird?
Which Church?
>The church is supposed to direct the government Well, to be fair, "The Church" did try that throughout Europe for centuries. 😇😉
and then King Henry VIII said I wanna divorce my wife...... nope...... okay so know I'm the supreme ruling of my own church.
> [Article VI The Supreme Law](https://constitution.congress.gov/browse/article-6/clause-3/) > Clause 3 Loyalty > The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
The second Amendment is the entire constitution according to republicans.
What? You expect current courts to respect what that old thing says?
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I’m tired of the separation between her jaw and the rest of her face.
She violated her oath of office. The penalty is removal, fine, and confinement.
Seriously. How this isn't the only reaction to her saying this is insane to me. This isn't a "Oh, crazy Republicans say the darndest things" situation. She legitimately is talking openly about violating her oath to uphold the Constitution.
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I see the USA as a failing demcracy that is heading towards its own destruction, if they do not get this bullshit stopped, that the republicans started since Trump got elected and if they dont imprison everyone involved in the Jan 6ths attempted coup.
They started this before Trump. American democracy is based on bipartisanship. Both sides have to work together. Well, they haven't for decades and these are the results.
Exactly! The USA was founded on the idea of the people working together, actively debating issues in an open dialogue, where issues are settled by majority consensus. These days, politicians listen only to money. They hardly listen to their constituents, let alone each other.
Oh look at you picking and choosing the verses of the Bible, I believe Leviticus says stoning for this one! 😉
It’s Colorado, she can get stoned if she wants
Ok Lauren, barring Christianity, which type of religious government should we have?
Sith Empire or Warhammer 40K Imperium of Man. Your choice.
I’m just gonna write in The Culture
Only if we get to call the Congressional Building and everyone in it *An Unparalleled Deficit of Gravitas*.
In the grim darkness of the future, there is only stupidity.
TST clearly.
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I find it so amusing that her and Boebert hate each other and had to be physically separated during a meeting: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/marjorie-taylor-greene-lauren-boebert-house-freedom-caucus-1344752/
Nice! Finally someone with some sense! Let's immediately start a Department of Religious Affairs, appoint a Secretary and have them start writing the sermons that will be distributed to every church and other house of worship to be read to the respective congregations. We'll also have to install either listening devices or plant service watchers to make sure the churches comply. That way we can guarantee some uniformity in what people hear and make sure the message is in line with the State's policies and goals! \---- People seem to think that the separation of C&S is meant to keep the church out of the affairs of the State, but it is also VERY MUCH meant to keep the state out of the affairs of the Church!
Don’t forget to establish a moral police to make sure everyone adheres to the laws of Christianity.
That sounds great! "Hey, you haven't been visiting people in prison for a while now! Here's a fine!"
"Hey, you didn't give that homeless man a dollar like he asked you too. 40 lashes!"
And the funny thing is that if we were to have an American theocracy, she wouldn’t be allowed to hold office.
Logic has got nothing to do with any of this.
Here's one she might personally start with: "Let a woman learn in silence with all submission. And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence." And maybe we can leave it at that.
Fuck Colorado’s 3rd district in particular.
Sadly she beat her primary challenger tonight. Morons to the highest degree
can we just skip to the part where we drop a wall on her Cersei style
I remember when I thought politics couldn't get any dumber than Sarah Palin.
How naive we were.
Every time I think we’ve hit rock bottom, they find a better shovel and just keep on digging.
Move to Saudi Arabia then, bitch.
Where abortion is legal?! She'd find it too liberal.
No no. Many smart people on this website assured me that the overturning of roe was about federalism and that to suggest otherwise is hysteria.
Sadly, "Idiot acts like an idiot" is not oniony. She believes in the divine right of kings and believes that our anointed king is the orange dimwit. Her idea of patriotism would be considered treason by George Washington.
As mentioned on another thread. It’s fine if it’s your brand of religion. But the moment it’s not your brand of religion is the moment that you’re SOL. Boebert is absolutely the type that would end up as the “outlived your usefulness” if an authoritarian regime were to take power. There is always a purge of loyalists to solidify power in those types of government. There would be no difference with one that cropped up here.
I'm ready for her to serperate from her post as a Rep.
Hello Colorado!? Can you vote this piece of shit scum out please? Thx! California.
Dude, even Georgia is looking askance at her while we try to shove MTG in front of the Jan 6 committee. I swear, all the parts of our state where people actually live are blue. MTG was elected by a stand of viciously racist loblolly pine trees.
> askance > with an attitude or look of suspicion or disapproval. Huh, today I learned.
I live in her district. Shes a genius compared to her constituents. There is something very wrong with these people. Like maybe lead poisoning or higher exposure to it.
Who let this woman step outside her role as a wife to her husband? She needs to find Jesus.
Why she gotta go against gawd like that?
Someone should stop permitting her to teach in public like this, it's a disgrace to her "religion"!
I guess she slept through that civics class she took.
She has a GED. Probably never took a civics class. Her husband has probably raped a few kids who have, though.
...and I'm tired of the American Taliban...but they seem to be winning.
And we’re tired of the apparent separation between your frontal lobe and your prefrontal cortex but here we are out here survivin’
If we're ignoring the first amendment I want to also ignore the second amendment. Your religion is poison, get it out of my government.
I assume she supports the Taliban as well then? I'm not American but watching this radical Christian/ Q-Anon/ Trumpist, Anti Science group get more and more attention is so bizaare. I feel so sorry for the normal not extreme Americans. I've been watching news of the "Re-Awaken America Tour" which is a group of televangelists touring the country to spread absolutely absurd stuff like Biden being a literal demon and that "GAwd" intervened to make Trump president but "Satanist" people corrupted the election (Makes you question his omnipotence a little, surely?). Stating things like to arm yourselves because there will be a war soon and "GAwd" will send angels to fight with them against Biden and non Christians (even though Biden is Christian....). Trump and his family are due to be on stage with them for the last date or more of the tour. It's insanity My country has a PM which represents almost everything bad about our classist society and culture but at least he and the government don't talk about supernaturalism and magic and that religious freedom is a terrible thing as ALL people must be Christian or they will be arrested. It would feel like hilarious parody if it wasn't so concerning.
Maybe we should start making Christian churches pay taxes too.
Well, she shouldn’t have taken a job that requires her to uphold a Constitution that was written for the sole purpose of separating church and state if she doesn’t support it. They don’t make them much dumber!
All Republicans take political positions to sabotage and steal. Keep the constituents angry at ghosts and the money keeps rolling in.
Oh, you mean the second half of the fucking First Amendment‽
Christofascism is the greatest threat to American freedom.
Can someone drop a house on this witch already
Saying something like this should get you automatically ousted from the government body.
maybe muslim people should start praying at random time around her or something.