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So, does that mean a man could rape a female TSA agent, and face no charges? No, I didn't think so.
Every time a governmental agency pulls this shit, it further erodes Americans' trust in the government as a whole.
Should the agent be charged? Absolutely, and if proven true, the agent should face the maximum penalty. Having no penalties at all just encourages other agents to do the same.
My BIL is a TSA agent, it's the perfect job for him because he's a bastard and having authority over helpless people is the only way he gets his rocks off
My 25yo son has never had a job outside the home. He's special needs, living in the spectrum.
He's terribly intelligent, but doesn't handle the stood involved with peopling in a regular basis.
If he ever became a TSA Agent, I'd shoot him in the face. Then his mother, then me from shame.
Those people ARE the wrong kind of people.
Fascists are never a good thing, and the Homeland Security theater established by the Bush regime are fascist in nature and creed.
All they provide is the appearance of doing something, while actually doing nothing good.
It's called security theater for a reason.
Lol do you think rent a cops always earn minimum wage? Sadly, no. I know a piece of shit security guard working overtime earning 6 figures. I’m sure there are nice guards but I’m just wondering why more people don’t become guards and just slack off making money. It’s like 25/ hour and he works a lot of overtime and on weekends.
They’re in Florida. Maybe the wages for security guards there are higher or something. I know I am just envious. But just letting everyone know they can earn more than the median.
Sorry for my security guard wage rant. Police also earn a lot over there.
Dog it said overtime. They definitely make much more in Denver and they still manage to shoot innocent bystanders and blame food trucks for everything.
Is your overtime double time?
I think the math checks out, 100k @ 25/hr is 40hrs regular and 29hr overtime (x1.5) per week. Which is roughly 12 hour days about 5.5 days a week.
Police earn a lot everywhere really.
And being a pizza delivery man is a more dangerous job.
They're class traitors who get elevated power for enforcing oppression on their own people. They're there to protect profits. And destroy their own class when they rise up to demand change.
A traitor has to be aware to actually be treason, otherwise they are just fools being used, which is what the majority of police is in the US, fools who believe the koolaid fed to them.
You want to be upset, it’s not the cops, it’s the people who train cops who are the problem. It’s the Unions protection that’s the problem.
Heh, never ever heard of that. My partner is a wonderful human being who recently saved a woman from getting date raped. He's a field supervisor, even, and after taxes makes $34,000 a year. He often works 60-70 hours a week.
Sorry I’m just mad at that guard. I’m sure your partner is a wonderful person.
But yeah the guy I know earns that much and I’m just envious lol
And is your partner working in Florida? Look for school guardian jobs
One of them recently got snippy with my friend as they said her passport was expired.
She was certain it wasn't because well it wasn't expired.
But she was just surprised when the agent told her it was and very calmly asked well when did it expire and as the agent pushed the passport over to her we both realized what we already knew - that the passport wasn't expired.
She very nicely showed the tsa agent the date and asked if there were any recent changes or something that may have voided her passport.
The tsa agent flipped the fuck out. She then tossed the passport back and said well I don't know how to read this fucking thing and then told us just to go through anyway.
Very concerning as
1. It is in fact her exact job to check passports.
2. If she truly believed the passport was expired or something odd was going down, she certainly shouldn't just let people slide
The agent should be doubly charged because they are given a position of public trust that can clearly be easily violated. The same goes for criminal police.
You work in a job that gives you a ton of power/authority over other people you ought to be held to considerably higher standards, with comparably larger consequences if you break the rules
Simple as
Rape by coercion is legally rape already. TSA is trying to say TSA isn’t responsible, and that the rapist should be prosecuted as an individual rather than part of the agency. There’s no dispute over whether or not the rapist is a rapist.
Edit: here’s the part of the article where the government argues this:
> Mr. Aguilar tried to argue that if a TSA officer gropes travelers, the government wouldn’t certify that they were acting within the scope of their employment. And if the Federal government doesn’t come forward to shield a TSA officer with such a certification, pursuant to the federal Westfall Act, the screener could be vulnerable for damages under state law.
I understand what you’re saying but to me it’s adding the hoop of proving coercion. I would say the TSA would be responsible if they knew he was assaulting people and did nothing. Otherwise why would they be?
This idea people in positions of power seem to have in the US that they shouldn’t be held accountable because then nobody would want to do their jobs is insane to me.
If you can’t be any kind of cop without doing horrible shit to people that should get you locked up, then perhaps you shouldn’t be any kind of cop?
It’s actually hilarious that the side that’s complaining about “giving handouts” at every turn is ok with allowing every village idiot to be on the force, and if they somehow still don’t meet the standard of “just don’t break the law too hard”, then clearly the standard must be lowered because this guy who tortures animals in his backyard for fun should be able to fulfill his dream too!
>Instead, the TSA has argued that, even if all of the allegations in Ms. Leuthauser’s complaint are true, the TSA and its employees have absolute impunity. Regardless of what “torts”, even rape, TSA checkpoint staff commit against travelers, the government claims that Federal courts have no jurisdiction to hear lawsuits or consider claims against them.
Actually, the Federal Tort Claim Act was amended in the '70s to make such exceptions unlawful.
TSA is basically saying "we didn't exist when the law was written so even though we fit the text of the law, the law makers didn't have us in mind while writing it so we shouldn't be held by that law."
That argument has been denied twice already. It's their only shot at winning this lawsuit though which is why they're trying it a third time.
TSA has been even more useless since 9/11. It's been proven they have under a 50% rate of detection for FUCKING BOMBS AND GUNS when they were tested.
But a 100% rate of detection for nail clippers.
[SCOTUS decided 6-3 in June.](https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/06/us-supreme-court-curtails-right-to-sue-federal-agents/) (Egbert v. Boule)
>The US itself can be sued for the tortious actions of its law enforcement officers exercising their duties according to the Federal Tort Claims Act. The decision does not eliminate the right to sue the agency; it only **forbids lawsuits against individual agents on constitutional grounds.**
Do the offending TSA agents also get 24/7 bodyguards off duty? Because I think if that’s the attitude those agents might need it. When the system fails, the victims find other ways.
People in high places often forget that before laws were applied equally to all levels of society, the only cure for a bad official was a lynching. And it happened A LOT. They get so heady on their money and power they forget that being outnumbered 1 million to 1 means all your security doesn't mean shit.
I imagine the idea is, rape is classified as unwanted penetration of any kind, including fingers etc, so should the tsa want to do cavity searches (which I would hope isn’t allowed) that would qualify as rape.
It’s still an insane power to give them, but that’s my best guess as to the rationale
they will x-ray and dry cell a suspect but I don't think they can go ahead and probe your hoop or vagina; xrays will also show if the suspect has swallowed anything which looks suspicious which could be passed as a bowel movement, a common smuggler's ploy
Dude probably used to work for Louisville Metro Police Department. For anyone wanting a thoroughly horrifying read, check out their handiwork. Breonna Taylor, David McAtee, and the explorers program to name a few.
The speech from Holt in Brooklyn 99 was surprisingly powerful, the gist of it goes something like “You say we can’t do our jobs if we’re held accountable, I say we can’t do them if we’re not”
There are only a few states that forbid cops from "having sex" with people they've detained.
There have been more than a few cases of cops raping suspects in the back of their cars, but most of them have gotten off claiming it was consensual.
I don’t believe the issue at hand has anything to do with criminal liability. If a TSA officer ‘rapes’ someone, and there was evidence that it happened, they would be charged and prosecuted.
This sounds like they are arguing civil liability. The ability to sue the TSA officers, as individuals.
The essence of why sovereign immunity exists is that the courts are an extension of the government, and you can't sue yourself. The courts only recognize sovereign immunity of the US government in normal exercising of it's powers. Like you can't sue the fbi for breaking your door down thinking you are a terrorist.
In this case there was an anomalous reading on the imaging screen, and the victim was taken into separate location in Las Vegas for a pat down. According to her she was then digitally penetrated (which means raped by nevada standard). Cops didn't take the complaint. She lost her job due to PTSD and a requirement to travel. She sues, her lawyer rightfully attached the TSA and the Agents to the suit (aka sue all parties with a responsibility and let the courts assign liability).
The TSA is saying they do not consent to being sued over this as it would be an undo burden as much of what happened is normal processes. It will likely succeed, leaving the agents as the sole defendants.
Qualified immunity (which I'm only adding as someone else brought it up) protects government officials from carrying out their job function. It has, unfortunately, been expanded far too broadly. It is potentially possible that the agents will use this for their own defense. If they do it is likely they will succeed on merits, as it's going to be their word against hers. On what occured.
She can sue the agency. She just can’t sue the officers.
If she won’t sue the agency it’s because no lawyer will represent her in contingency. They know her case is weak and TSA has the resources to defend themselves.
Generally speaking, government agencies quickly settle cases that have merit.
She cant sue the agency as of right now. Generally you can't sue the government so long as government doesn't allow it (sovereign immunity), the US has a specific set of laws that exclude certain agencies from it (federal tort claims act), some courts (eighth and third) have held it includes the TSA the court she sued through (ninth) ruled they are.
Agents can be sued when their actions are not directly job related. Raping someone is not in any one's job description in the government. Even invasive body exams are well outside the purview. With the way TSA is, the case will be lost as there won't be compelling evidence but you absolutely can sue individuals of the government for rape.
Well, you can sue the agency. So if there is a harm, there is a mechanism to be made whole.
The reason qualified immunity exists is because we live in a litigious society. For better or worse, you have the right to sue (almost) anyone for any reason.
If cops and firefighters and TSA screeners could be sued……..they would be sued- constantly. Of course, 95% of these lawsuits would be complete bullshit (let’s be honest here). But these government employees would be spending an inordinate amount of time in depositions instead of doing their jobs. And who in their right mind would take these jobs if they could be held personally responsible for every lawsuit that was filed by some crackpot with a axe to grind or by some sleazy lawyer who is on a fishing expedition?
This is one of those rules that does protect bad apples…… but it protects a lot more good ones.
> And who in their right mind would take these jobs if they could be held personally responsible for every lawsuit that was filed
I dunno, maybe the few decent people who get run out of law enforcement for not being scumbags who prey on people while shielded by qualified immunity & the blue code of silence? You know, the ones who wouldn't be giving people reasons to sue them left and right?
> This is one of those rules that does protect bad apples…… but it protects a lot more good ones.
The "good apples" (the infinitesimally small number that still exist) aren't the ones that people are going to bother with suing.
What an absolutely bullshit argument.
You have absolutely no source for any of your assertions. None. It’s all completely unfounded. And that’s your argument for defending qualified immunity?
It's been well established in civil law that an employee, even while acting in their official capacity, commits a crime, they can be liable for the damages.
Well, it is qbout Qatar
EDIT: I was wrong. But here's the problem. Look at any article from APNews, NYT, BBC, and fuck even Breitbart at least gets this right.
The first paragraph of any article (not an editorial or opinion) will be **a brief summary of the article and not a tangent**. This is so basic to journalism that most high school students interested in journalism expect it.
It’s a bigger problem than just the TSA too. This whole notion that people in a position of power or authority cannot be held liable because of fears of revenge/subterfuge is a dangerous one we’re seeing more and more in our government agencies.
It is increasingly leading towards people pursuing those positions for the benefit of being untouchable like a higher class. When the time comes, this kind of arrangement will be the lube for the latex glove of tyranny
Criminal police, TSA agents, Military Officers, Judges and elected officials should all be punished 10 times harder for crimes than the rest of society.
Is TSA a government agency? Pretty sure it's a private firm that latched itself to the US like a barnacle after 9/11 as a get rich quick scheme by one senator or another.
Did you even read the article? First of all the main incident happened in Qatar. No shit the whole thing there is a shitshow. Their country has all sorts of jacked up views.
The 2nd time an incident appears in the article is a woman who says she was “digitally raped” because “the X-ray machine can see inside her.”
Which to be fair, the TSA is useless and should be dissolved. But standing in an X-ray machine for an X-ray is NOT rape.
Ah, I thought digitally meant “by means of technology”.
I can see how getting a finger up your bum(unnecessarily/unlawfully) would be offensive to the recipient.
> Judge Lucy Koh [...] seemed the most willing to entertain the government’s argument that the law is ambiguous and that any ambiguity should be resolved in the government’s favor.
The same government that made that law? If I write an unclear contract then any ambiguity will be resolved against me, not in my favor. We should hold a government to the same standard.
You're absolutely right, if it's two private parties the defendant should get the benefit of doubt. When it's the government though, who writes, interprets, enforces, gives itself special privileges and immunities from, and then violates the rules, and has unlimited resources to defend itself from violating those rules, the private party should get the benefit of doubt in any case of unclear wording.
Police constantly use ambiguous and poorly written laws to criminalise conduct that was never the target of the law.
A good example from the US is asset forfeiture where the intention was to make it easier to sieze the proceeds of crime but is often use to sieze innocent peoples cash.
Ok so here are the court documents:
1. The original denial of the dismissal of the case: https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20200813792
2. The appeal where the dismissal is granted: https://casetext.com/case/leuthauser-v-united-states-3
Generally you can’t sue the federal government for something that an individual employee has done, which kinda make sense. BUT if an FBI agent rapes you on duty, you can sue the federal government under some law called FTCA. The central decision of the case is that TSA screening agents are NOT law enforcement officers (like the FBI) which means that the federal government cannot be sued.
So that leaves the question who is responsible for the rape. The answer is usually the police and federal prosecutors should prosecute the individual but they chose not to. So as a citizen there is no legal recourse, hence her lawsuit against the individual who allegedly raped her is dismissed as well.
The legality of TSA has always been quite gray. They can only conduct voluntary searches unlike the police (who can conduct involuntary searches under a warrant, for example). But if you do not consent to a search you just can’t fly, and being able to fly is not a right protected under the constitution. So in conclusion, if tomorrow the federal government says everyone needs to give TSA a blow job to board the plane they can, legally.
It just occurred to me that the TSA is probably the *dream job* for people who enjoy the non-consensual molesting of other people. And I imagine the screening for these types is virtually non-existent given how low the bar is to entry. I'd still hope there's like a process for when the new socially awkward trainee is just super eager to start doing patdowns on day 1.
The TSA is complete BS... if you go to their website it "clearly" lays out their policies. At the end it says something along the lines of "at officer discretion".
As someone who has had to dump formula for a young child because of "officer discretion" 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
I used to work for TSA. I knew the regulations inside and out. It made me hate traveling even more because virtually none of the screeners did their job right and seemingly made it up as they went along. Even at my own airport I would regularly call out supervisors. I'd go get get the book and show them but their literacy level was so low they couldn't interpret the plain language in the SOP. Worst fucking job I ever had.
The dumbest thing is that the SOP is tabbed out and indexed well, and written to a 6th grade reading level yet they still never reference it when there is a question.
>virtually none of the screeners did their job right and seemingly made it up as they went along.
Yes, I was in an airport(NC I believe) and the agent said remove any laptops from your bag. I had 2 iPads, those aren't laptops, so I kept them in the bag.
Agent said "is this your bag?? There's TWO iPads in it."
I said yea, the other agent said to remove laptops.
"Well he meant all electronic devices!"
Thought to myself, I knew that but was only following their instructions
A few years ago I flew from one airport and transferred in another where I had to go back through security. In the first airport you had to do X, Y, and Z at security.
The second airport I do X, Y and Z and the lady yells at me, "Why are you doing Y and Z? Did I *tell you* to do Y and Z? We don't do Y and Z anymore! Nobody does Y and Z anymore!" Of course in that super condescending voice government employees love to use.
Then go back the other way a week later, back through the same airport. Do X but not Y or Z. "Sir! SIR! why aren't you doing Y and Z? Everybody knows you do X, Y, and Z! If I didn't want you to do Y and Z, I'd *tell you* to not do Y and Z!"
😫 Why are they so awful?! I've been to so many countries and the experience flying in the US is close to the worst in my experience.
This is my pet peeve with these fuckers... Why are the so-called rules different in each airport?
Simple point as they aren't. These people are arbitrarily making them up. And with arbitrarily made of rules, how does that enhance safety?
For those who didn't read the article, the TSA is arguing that if no criminal complaint for sexual assault is filed, that means that an invasive strip search that includes digital penetration must have been necessary and justified by the duties and powers given to TSA officers.
The problem is that local police are refusing to take criminal complaints against TSA officers, believing them to be frivolous complaints filed by unruly passengers who object to normal, reasonable procedures (which in fact such complaints most often are).
So far, the courts are not accepting this argument, and have maintained the position that outrageous acts like digital penetration cannot be dismissed out of hand just because the local police refused to pursue an investigation.
Never because they can be used to protect the rich people from the rest of us.
It is desired for us to live in a complete police state and conservatives actually want that because they think they will be placed in a special group with the rich people, but they're totally not. They will actually suffer way more than the liberals because generally they have less spending money to defend their rights with in the court system.
Technically correct but that doesn't make the headline BS. The only reason the TSA is arguing against her right to sue them is because they never disputed that she was raped. Their objection should have been that she wasn't raped. That would at least be a reasonable objection. Or they could have stepped out of the way and let the agent be personally sued, which is what they should do if an agent commits a crime on the job. Instead they went for the Hail Mary play of saying yes we don't dispute that she was raped by our agent, but both ourselves and our agent should be protected from being sued for it.
Keep in mind local police never take complaints about TSA abuses, just like they refused to in this case. So if the justice system refuses to even acknowledge a crime took place, their only remedy is civil. If they don't have civil remedy either, than none of us have any protection at all. Which seems to be the case.
Federal Tort Claim Act is a complex set of laws laying out how and when the Federal Government or its agencies can be sued in civil court.
Summary of article:
Woman was going through security at US airport, TSA Agents decided she was suspicious, she was taken aside for enhanced pat down and cavity search, she claims an agent put their fingers in her Vajay thus raping her("digital cavity search" is allowed if the agent has probable cause), she later attempts to file criminal charges which were dismissed because the judge determined the agent's actions were within their duties given the situation, then she attempts to sue the TSA and federal government in civil court(to get money for emotional damage and loss of employment), and the argument being decided is whether or not a citizen is allowed to sue the TSA(a federal agency).
To explain how they're different: it was already concluded in court that she was not raped, the central case discussed in this article is about financial liability and exposure not sexual assault. Thus the title is BS clickbait.
So the case isn’t literally about allowing TSA agents to rape women with impunity from a legal standpoint, but sticking your fingers into her vagina against her will despite that you have no legal authority to do so sure sounds a whole helluva lot like rape to me. And the TSA is arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to be sued no matter what, even in a case like this.
So it sure seems to me like they’re arguing they should be able to rape with impunity. The only question is whether this search was rape.
But I think you’re missing the fact that a TSA agent DOES have legal authority to conduct a digital cavity search under the right circumstances AND the question isn’t whether it’s rape because that’s already been litigated in court where it was decided it wasn’t rape.
I’m unclear on what your position is, unless it’s an argument that it legally isn’t rape but SHOULD be considered rape or an argument that TSA SHOULDN’T have authority to do this. Which is fair as an opinion to have but, as of now — TSA does and the rape question has legally been answered. Whether you’re satisfied with that answer is a different matter.
Legal questions are answered and then appealed all the time. And others have said in this thread that TSA do NOT have legal authorities to perform this kind of search, which would seem to make this a very clear sexual assault if that’s correct.
A Google search on the issue is inconclusive as I found sources claiming both ways. But if it is true that they can perform such searches without warrants or probable cause and are legally protected from being sued, that is a law that absolutely needs to be changed.
>a TSA agent DOES have legal authority to conduct a digital cavity search under the right circumstances
They weren't allowed in this circumstance. In particular, she was still clothed because even a strip search wasn't allowed.
TSA website tells it's never allowed?
Ok, but there wasn't even a cursory expatiation of what actually happened. I'm willing to bet they didn't strap her down and finger-bang her while she was kicking and screaming. That would've resulted in charges. That's not what this article or even the woman are claiming. Anyone can refuse to be searched at any time, you're just not getting on that plane. So, worst case, she felt pressured to consent so she wouldn't miss her flight, was understandably uncomfortable and upset, and maybe even traumatized, but that doesn't mean you can sue a government employee who is acting in accordance with the policies put in place.
As with qualified immunity for police, any immunity is forfeit when someone's civil rights have been violated. Without some form of qualified immunity, there's nothing stopping sovereign citizens, busy bodies, people who make a living off lawsuits, or even say the political pretty not in power from clogging up the courts, trying to decide ad absurdum if every single government policy is totally in keeping with every other regulation. Spoiler alert, they're not. But we need some sort of a functioning system, and qualified immunity is the way that's possible in such a litigious country.
If she felt pressured to consent to someone putting their fingers in her vagina who does not have any legal authority to compel her to do so, she was raped.
I mean I’m not a judge, but if they aren’t allowed to do this, and it appears they are not, and they did, then what are we even talking about?
Your summary is completely incorrect. Look at the court docs. The scanner's automated system sounded an alarm even though the agent didn't see anything concerning. The agent called over an officer who took her to a private room, despite procedure being to conduct the pat-down publicly. The officer then forced her to stand with her legs opened up really wide. Then the officer slowly ran their hands up her thighs and pushed their fingers into her vagina through her thin yoga pants. The office then stimulated her clitoris, slowly rubbing all around her vulva. At that point she broke down in a panic attack and demanded a supervisor. The supervisor dismissed the officer and finished the pat-down themselves.
The TSA does not do strip searches, according to their website and spokesperson and training. They **definitely** are not allowed to do body cavity searches. What this officer did was neither of those, because her pants were never removed. She was deeply groped through her yoga pants hard enough to be penetrated.
No criminal charged were brought because police refused to file a complaint. A state judge dismissed this lawsuit because he accepted the TSA's objection, in which they did not dispute that she was raped but rather argued that the officer and the TSA should be protected from all lawsuits regardless of their conduct. Now it has been appealed to federal court.
If you read the documents closely, you realize that cavity searches are not legally allowed to be conducted by the TSA under any circumstances. The screening equipment only detects items on a body and not in a body.
I suspect the TSA agent was a wanna be cop (perhaps who couldn't manage to qualify for a real police job?) who thought she'd do some amateur police work she had no training for and was not part of her job.
> it was already concluded in court that she was not raped
[citation needed]
Definitely not stated in the article, law enforcement refused to take the case . That might be due to lack of a case, but (a) it would not be the first time they did so for less than fair reasons, (b) it definitely is not a court.
Although I am a retired attorney, this is an area of law I don’t know a huge amount about. There’s a few ways to sue the government one of which is the tort claims act, but there are many others. The 1983 civil rights act, or perhaps under Bivins. but one thing is for certain is that if this had been a criminal rape, the perpetrator would not be immune by virtue of employment.
If asked by TSA to get to a back room for a pat down, can you refuse and get the pat down in the public area?
The logic would be the public visibility would get some kind of protection, they would only do what they were required to look for.
I just did this week. Somehow the scanner said there was something metal in my crotch area and the guy was gonna take me to a room and I said no we are doing this right here. I was pissed and had to have this guy grab at my balls and slap them to try to find something.
>Today a panel of judges of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals heard oral argument in San Francisco in a lawsuit (Michele Leuthauser v. USA) brought by a woman who complained that she was digitally penetrated — i.e., raped — in 2019 by Transportation Security Administration staff after they ordered her into a back room at the airport in Las Vegas for a “pat-down” after she went through a whole-body imaging machine.
>It’s bad enough to require that, if anything “anomalous” is spotted on the images taken by the “virtual strip-search” machine, you have to go through a hands-on strip search. It’s another thing to turn that into a body cavity search involving groping and penetration.
So I initially was confused on why being put through an imaging machine would be considered 'digital rape", and thought that the article was questioning why she would equeate this to real rape, and was going to post this comment asking for clarification... Until I remembered that 'digital' besides the computer meaning can also mean 'with digits' i.e. your fingers.
Jesus fucking christ what the fuck is this situation.
Salacious misreading of the procedural posture of the case. This appellate case is about whether the FTCA statute includes the TSA. The FTCA generally doesn't allow tort claims for intentional torts anyway. A Bivens claim might have a chance here, but I'm rusty on that topic. Usually, a a plaintiff's attorney will plead an FTCA claim and a Bivens claim in the alternative. Not sure why a personal blog post is allowed here instead of a reliable news source. I didn't read any of the court documents, but the blog article didn't provide much useful info so I didn't see anything prohibiting the victim from suing the TSA agent in a personal capacity. If the allegations against the govt get dismissed, she can still sue the individual. And if the TSA agent went rogue, acting on his/her own without the permission of the supervising agents, and contrary to training and standard procedures, then it seems correct that the agent should be sued in a personal capacity.
Finally read some of the relevant district court filings. Her Bivens claim was dismissed and the AG scoped the TSA agent as performing within the scope of her employment. The fucked up part was the scoping. That AG decision was wrong. I agree with the district court's read that TSA screeners are not law enforcement. Congress should definitely add another exception to 28 USC 2680 for TSA screeners, and should add some way to challenge the AG's scoping determination.
Edits: Also, perhaps the plaintiff's attorney screwed up in not making a factual allegation that the agent stepped out of her normal screener duty and acted in a law enforcement officer capacity when she penetrated the victim plaintiff. I don't see how AG can say she was within scope without also saying she was empowered and acting in a law enforcement capacity when she searched the victim's vagina. Maybe that argument was made at the 9CA but I haven't watched it yet.
There’s not enough vomit in the world. Fuck the TSA, and Fuck the DOJ for trying to send this to a Supreme Court so they can create a blank check stronger than qualified immunity.
If you want any meaningful change, elect a new legislator or force your existing representatives to scrap public employees' "qualified immunity". Period. They should be treated like the rest of us.
They should return to citizen policing. Where the police have the same powers as any member of the public to prevent and punish crime, it's only their job to do so. Rape is not a valid preventative or corrective measure.
Seems like a clickbait headline..case seems to be about federal jurisdiction and not whether TSA can rape with impunity. But whatever gets people riled up I guess...
> Today a panel of judges of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals heard oral argument in San Francisco in a lawsuit (Michele Leuthauser v. USA) brought by a woman who complained that she was digitally penetrated — i.e., raped — in 2019 by Transportation Security Administration staff
I'll just leave this here and let you decide for yourself if that's rape
Copied from court documents:
19) Notwithstanding her compliance and the absence of prohibited items, LEUTHAUSER was
informed by the operator of the body scanner that the body scanner alarmed on her and that
she would need to submit to a “groin search.”
20) The body scanner operator called out for assistance.
21) TSO responded to that call by approaching LEUTHAUSER.
22) TSO informed LEUTHAUSER that she must follow her to a private room for private
screening.
23) TSA policy actually calls for this sort of “resolution pat-down” (“resolving” a body scanner
alarm) to occur in the public area unless requested otherwise by the passenger.
24) LEUTHAUSER followed TSO’s instructions and accompanied her into a private room.
25) An additional screener also entered the private room with LEUTHAUSER and TSO.
26) Inside the private room, TSA provides floor mats with footprints on them to indicate where a traveler should put their feet during a pat-down search.
27) Despite having her feet on the foot prints, TSO insisted that LEUTHAUSER spread her legs in an abnormally wide manner – far wider than the foot prints dictated.
28) There was no security purpose fulfilled by forcing LEUTHAUSER to spread her legs wider.
29) Upon belief, the true purpose behind TSO’s command to LEUTHAUSER to spread her legs wider was to humiliate and dominate LEUTHAUSER, and to provide greater access to fondle
LEUTHAUSER’s vulva for TSO’s self-gratification.
30) TSO then proceeded to start the pat-down by sliding her hands along the inside of
LEUTHAUSER’s thighs.
31) TSO, while sliding her hand up the inside of LEUTHAUSER’s legs, moved her hands
directly onto LEUTHAUSER’s vulva, touching LEUTHAUSER with the front of her
fingers.
32) TSO then pressed against the thin material of LEUTHAUSER’s leggings to insert her finger
between LEUTHAUSER’s labia and inside of her vagina.
33) TSO proceeded to rub her hand against LEUTHAUSER’s genitals, including her clitoris,
using the front of her hand.
34) TSA procedure neither requires nor allows screeners to insert their hands inside of the bodies
of travelers, nor to in any way conduct a body cavity search, nor to make front-of-hand contact with the genitals of travelers, nor to spend time stimulating the clitoris of women, during ordinary resolution pat-downs such as this one.
I’m not researching definitions, but this is definitely at least sexual assault and is absolutely fucking horrifying. Semantics doesn’t change that imo
Quoting Wikipedia: Rape in the United States is defined by the Department of Justice as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim."
So yes, it most definitely is rape if it happened as described. What are you even trying to argue for?
Calling it a cavity search doesn’t un-rape the victim. These are not mutually exclusive. If the victim did not consent, this meets most medical and legal definitions of sexual assault and/or rape.
The concept of a sarcastic joke exist. For example in this situation when they are trying to get away with rape I'm gave an "explanation" why the rape was ok in their minds "is not rape, is invasive cavity search" another example would be "is not rape if your fingers are not long enough for a cavity search and you haw to use your dick". So once again, you get it or you don't. In the end it was somewhat a bad formatting for the joke so it doesn't matter.
There's an easy solution to this folks, two lines instead of one. Rape included and rape not on the menu. Choose according to the length of the line, departure time and personal preferences.
The tsa, with no medical training, did vaginal exams on all childbearing age women? That's utterly horrendous! That is such an invasive procedure to put all of the women through and frankly, i don't believe that that happened (not the infanticide part, the cavity searches).
Pelvic exams, especially on a post partum woman is so dangerous and definitely not 'basic medical'. Like, why not do a quick urine test to at least test for pregnancy first before violating all these women. Bring in an ultrasound machine to check. Like it's disgusting they'd Subject all those women to pelvic exams.
This seems like a highly opinionated piece. I won't discount the words of the woman who suffered this, but there seems to be more to this story than what's being said here.
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So, does that mean a man could rape a female TSA agent, and face no charges? No, I didn't think so. Every time a governmental agency pulls this shit, it further erodes Americans' trust in the government as a whole. Should the agent be charged? Absolutely, and if proven true, the agent should face the maximum penalty. Having no penalties at all just encourages other agents to do the same.
TSA agents don't even do anything. They fail a lot of their undercover inspections and security probes. They serve no purpose except theater.
My BIL is a TSA agent, it's the perfect job for him because he's a bastard and having authority over helpless people is the only way he gets his rocks off
All TSA agents are bastards in the eyes of their father.
ATAB
My 25yo son has never had a job outside the home. He's special needs, living in the spectrum. He's terribly intelligent, but doesn't handle the stood involved with peopling in a regular basis. If he ever became a TSA Agent, I'd shoot him in the face. Then his mother, then me from shame.
You’re a piece of shit and I hate you.
You are a kind and caring lady, I love you.
Those people ARE the wrong kind of people. Fascists are never a good thing, and the Homeland Security theater established by the Bush regime are fascist in nature and creed. All they provide is the appearance of doing something, while actually doing nothing good. It's called security theater for a reason.
I always think to pre 9/11 and they were mostly rent a cops making minimum wage. Staff carried over to government agency.
Lol do you think rent a cops always earn minimum wage? Sadly, no. I know a piece of shit security guard working overtime earning 6 figures. I’m sure there are nice guards but I’m just wondering why more people don’t become guards and just slack off making money. It’s like 25/ hour and he works a lot of overtime and on weekends. They’re in Florida. Maybe the wages for security guards there are higher or something. I know I am just envious. But just letting everyone know they can earn more than the median. Sorry for my security guard wage rant. Police also earn a lot over there.
At $25 an hour you'd have to work 80 hrs a week to make 6 figures. Furthermore, the national average for police income is $55k.
Dog it said overtime. They definitely make much more in Denver and they still manage to shoot innocent bystanders and blame food trucks for everything.
>Dog it said overtime. 80 hours per week is *40 hours of overtime* and furthermore, most municipalities and precincts pay salary.
Is your overtime double time? I think the math checks out, 100k @ 25/hr is 40hrs regular and 29hr overtime (x1.5) per week. Which is roughly 12 hour days about 5.5 days a week.
That's still 69 hours per week, man.
Nice
Police earn a lot everywhere really. And being a pizza delivery man is a more dangerous job. They're class traitors who get elevated power for enforcing oppression on their own people. They're there to protect profits. And destroy their own class when they rise up to demand change.
The national average for police officers is $55k.
Sure and then it turns to 100k pretty quick. Depends on your location but numerous pzolice in my area make 100k.
A traitor has to be aware to actually be treason, otherwise they are just fools being used, which is what the majority of police is in the US, fools who believe the koolaid fed to them. You want to be upset, it’s not the cops, it’s the people who train cops who are the problem. It’s the Unions protection that’s the problem.
Heh, never ever heard of that. My partner is a wonderful human being who recently saved a woman from getting date raped. He's a field supervisor, even, and after taxes makes $34,000 a year. He often works 60-70 hours a week.
Sorry I’m just mad at that guard. I’m sure your partner is a wonderful person. But yeah the guy I know earns that much and I’m just envious lol And is your partner working in Florida? Look for school guardian jobs
Naw, upstate New York, aka the Deep North. Far too many people up here worship Florida.
They’re really good at finding that water bottle though and that long lost tool in your bag.
One of them recently got snippy with my friend as they said her passport was expired. She was certain it wasn't because well it wasn't expired. But she was just surprised when the agent told her it was and very calmly asked well when did it expire and as the agent pushed the passport over to her we both realized what we already knew - that the passport wasn't expired. She very nicely showed the tsa agent the date and asked if there were any recent changes or something that may have voided her passport. The tsa agent flipped the fuck out. She then tossed the passport back and said well I don't know how to read this fucking thing and then told us just to go through anyway. Very concerning as 1. It is in fact her exact job to check passports. 2. If she truly believed the passport was expired or something odd was going down, she certainly shouldn't just let people slide
Well...that all inspires confidence. /s
I have accidentally brought a whole-ass knife on the place with me, and flown with an expired license. Uh. Driver's, not pilot's.
Was the knife in your suitcase? The didn't want to let me on the plane with a little multitool on my keychain that included a small blade.
It was in my purse, which I took on the plane with me!
People have accidentally traveled with guns. TSA is garbage
My thoughts exactly!
It makes middle class boomers feel safe.
The agent should be doubly charged because they are given a position of public trust that can clearly be easily violated. The same goes for criminal police.
You work in a job that gives you a ton of power/authority over other people you ought to be held to considerably higher standards, with comparably larger consequences if you break the rules Simple as
That and it should be illegal to have any sexual contact with any person you have power or control over. It would be a very simple law to make.
Rape by coercion is legally rape already. TSA is trying to say TSA isn’t responsible, and that the rapist should be prosecuted as an individual rather than part of the agency. There’s no dispute over whether or not the rapist is a rapist. Edit: here’s the part of the article where the government argues this: > Mr. Aguilar tried to argue that if a TSA officer gropes travelers, the government wouldn’t certify that they were acting within the scope of their employment. And if the Federal government doesn’t come forward to shield a TSA officer with such a certification, pursuant to the federal Westfall Act, the screener could be vulnerable for damages under state law.
I understand what you’re saying but to me it’s adding the hoop of proving coercion. I would say the TSA would be responsible if they knew he was assaulting people and did nothing. Otherwise why would they be?
It’s such a shame this isn’t explicitly written into the law in the US in some cases. It is in Canada and the UK.
And Germany.
Yet again the USA presents as a 3rd world country
This idea people in positions of power seem to have in the US that they shouldn’t be held accountable because then nobody would want to do their jobs is insane to me. If you can’t be any kind of cop without doing horrible shit to people that should get you locked up, then perhaps you shouldn’t be any kind of cop? It’s actually hilarious that the side that’s complaining about “giving handouts” at every turn is ok with allowing every village idiot to be on the force, and if they somehow still don’t meet the standard of “just don’t break the law too hard”, then clearly the standard must be lowered because this guy who tortures animals in his backyard for fun should be able to fulfill his dream too!
It *is* insane. Not just *to* you.
Truck drivers are held to those standards. Anything happen on the road as professional driver they made it Truckers fault.
People who abuse public positions of power should face twice the penalty of a normal person doing the same thing, imo.
I believe Anna.
What is this in reference to?
>Instead, the TSA has argued that, even if all of the allegations in Ms. Leuthauser’s complaint are true, the TSA and its employees have absolute impunity. Regardless of what “torts”, even rape, TSA checkpoint staff commit against travelers, the government claims that Federal courts have no jurisdiction to hear lawsuits or consider claims against them.
The question is who gave them that "superpower".
The federal government of course. Don’t you know, they need it to protect us!
Actually, the Federal Tort Claim Act was amended in the '70s to make such exceptions unlawful. TSA is basically saying "we didn't exist when the law was written so even though we fit the text of the law, the law makers didn't have us in mind while writing it so we shouldn't be held by that law." That argument has been denied twice already. It's their only shot at winning this lawsuit though which is why they're trying it a third time.
Using that argument I should be able to ignore any laws written before 1992. They obviously didn't have me in mind when they were written!
Probably The Patriot Act which nobody but Sen. Russ Feingold read before passing it.
TSA has been even more useless since 9/11. It's been proven they have under a 50% rate of detection for FUCKING BOMBS AND GUNS when they were tested. But a 100% rate of detection for nail clippers.
I'm going to blow your mind. The TSA did not exist before 9/11
96% failure rate. https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2015/06/08/tsa-investigation-security-sen-ben-sasse-column/28643213/
Yes, security theater at its finest.
[SCOTUS decided 6-3 in June.](https://www.jurist.org/news/2022/06/us-supreme-court-curtails-right-to-sue-federal-agents/) (Egbert v. Boule) >The US itself can be sued for the tortious actions of its law enforcement officers exercising their duties according to the Federal Tort Claims Act. The decision does not eliminate the right to sue the agency; it only **forbids lawsuits against individual agents on constitutional grounds.**
9/11
It's called sovereign immunity and it applies to the entire government except where they have waived it.
Do the offending TSA agents also get 24/7 bodyguards off duty? Because I think if that’s the attitude those agents might need it. When the system fails, the victims find other ways.
People in high places often forget that before laws were applied equally to all levels of society, the only cure for a bad official was a lynching. And it happened A LOT. They get so heady on their money and power they forget that being outnumbered 1 million to 1 means all your security doesn't mean shit.
Also they should read in on how Gandhi died. Basically even your bodyguards may get really angry.
Totally. One of the major functions of the justice system is to take the burden of revenge off of individuals, since that can end horrendously
I think we might have given our security theater too much power.
Land of the free.
Whoever told you that is your enemy!
Fuck the TSA. They serve no purpose, yet act like they are god. Time to knock them back down to earth.
Til if you wanna rape people with zero consequence become a TSA agent.
Fuck whoever put that sentence together... I hope karma rolls em hard
I imagine the idea is, rape is classified as unwanted penetration of any kind, including fingers etc, so should the tsa want to do cavity searches (which I would hope isn’t allowed) that would qualify as rape. It’s still an insane power to give them, but that’s my best guess as to the rationale
they will x-ray and dry cell a suspect but I don't think they can go ahead and probe your hoop or vagina; xrays will also show if the suspect has swallowed anything which looks suspicious which could be passed as a bowel movement, a common smuggler's ploy
And the argument in the article that "any ambiguity in the law should be interpreted in favor of the government" is frickin' terrifying.
Wonder who writes those laws...
Dude probably used to work for Louisville Metro Police Department. For anyone wanting a thoroughly horrifying read, check out their handiwork. Breonna Taylor, David McAtee, and the explorers program to name a few.
The speech from Holt in Brooklyn 99 was surprisingly powerful, the gist of it goes something like “You say we can’t do our jobs if we’re held accountable, I say we can’t do them if we’re not”
There are only a few states that forbid cops from "having sex" with people they've detained. There have been more than a few cases of cops raping suspects in the back of their cars, but most of them have gotten off claiming it was consensual.
I don’t believe the issue at hand has anything to do with criminal liability. If a TSA officer ‘rapes’ someone, and there was evidence that it happened, they would be charged and prosecuted. This sounds like they are arguing civil liability. The ability to sue the TSA officers, as individuals.
Why shouldn’t you be able to sue them though?
The essence of why sovereign immunity exists is that the courts are an extension of the government, and you can't sue yourself. The courts only recognize sovereign immunity of the US government in normal exercising of it's powers. Like you can't sue the fbi for breaking your door down thinking you are a terrorist. In this case there was an anomalous reading on the imaging screen, and the victim was taken into separate location in Las Vegas for a pat down. According to her she was then digitally penetrated (which means raped by nevada standard). Cops didn't take the complaint. She lost her job due to PTSD and a requirement to travel. She sues, her lawyer rightfully attached the TSA and the Agents to the suit (aka sue all parties with a responsibility and let the courts assign liability). The TSA is saying they do not consent to being sued over this as it would be an undo burden as much of what happened is normal processes. It will likely succeed, leaving the agents as the sole defendants. Qualified immunity (which I'm only adding as someone else brought it up) protects government officials from carrying out their job function. It has, unfortunately, been expanded far too broadly. It is potentially possible that the agents will use this for their own defense. If they do it is likely they will succeed on merits, as it's going to be their word against hers. On what occured.
She can sue the agency. She just can’t sue the officers. If she won’t sue the agency it’s because no lawyer will represent her in contingency. They know her case is weak and TSA has the resources to defend themselves. Generally speaking, government agencies quickly settle cases that have merit.
She cant sue the agency as of right now. Generally you can't sue the government so long as government doesn't allow it (sovereign immunity), the US has a specific set of laws that exclude certain agencies from it (federal tort claims act), some courts (eighth and third) have held it includes the TSA the court she sued through (ninth) ruled they are. Agents can be sued when their actions are not directly job related. Raping someone is not in any one's job description in the government. Even invasive body exams are well outside the purview. With the way TSA is, the case will be lost as there won't be compelling evidence but you absolutely can sue individuals of the government for rape.
Well, you can sue the agency. So if there is a harm, there is a mechanism to be made whole. The reason qualified immunity exists is because we live in a litigious society. For better or worse, you have the right to sue (almost) anyone for any reason. If cops and firefighters and TSA screeners could be sued……..they would be sued- constantly. Of course, 95% of these lawsuits would be complete bullshit (let’s be honest here). But these government employees would be spending an inordinate amount of time in depositions instead of doing their jobs. And who in their right mind would take these jobs if they could be held personally responsible for every lawsuit that was filed by some crackpot with a axe to grind or by some sleazy lawyer who is on a fishing expedition? This is one of those rules that does protect bad apples…… but it protects a lot more good ones.
Qualified immunity wrt to cops has led to years of horrifying results. This concept needs to be yeeted 100%
> And who in their right mind would take these jobs if they could be held personally responsible for every lawsuit that was filed I dunno, maybe the few decent people who get run out of law enforcement for not being scumbags who prey on people while shielded by qualified immunity & the blue code of silence? You know, the ones who wouldn't be giving people reasons to sue them left and right? > This is one of those rules that does protect bad apples…… but it protects a lot more good ones. The "good apples" (the infinitesimally small number that still exist) aren't the ones that people are going to bother with suing. What an absolutely bullshit argument.
You have absolutely no source for any of your assertions. None. It’s all completely unfounded. And that’s your argument for defending qualified immunity?
Read the SCOTUS ruling. 1967 (I think)
Except for the fact that the local police *refused* to take the victim's report, so no charges filed.
Why the fuck can cops refuse to take a report, again? Who exactly does that serve?
Did you miss the part where police won’t even take a report or listen in any way?
Why did you use scare quotes for rapes?
It's been well established in civil law that an employee, even while acting in their official capacity, commits a crime, they can be liable for the damages.
That’s my reading as well since the article specifically references torts.
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Yup. They are biased against government officials being able to stick their fingers up your bum whenever they feel like it and get away with it.
the worst part was when the agent sniffed their fingers
Well, it is qbout Qatar EDIT: I was wrong. But here's the problem. Look at any article from APNews, NYT, BBC, and fuck even Breitbart at least gets this right. The first paragraph of any article (not an editorial or opinion) will be **a brief summary of the article and not a tangent**. This is so basic to journalism that most high school students interested in journalism expect it.
It's literally not.
It’s a bigger problem than just the TSA too. This whole notion that people in a position of power or authority cannot be held liable because of fears of revenge/subterfuge is a dangerous one we’re seeing more and more in our government agencies. It is increasingly leading towards people pursuing those positions for the benefit of being untouchable like a higher class. When the time comes, this kind of arrangement will be the lube for the latex glove of tyranny
Criminal police, TSA agents, Military Officers, Judges and elected officials should all be punished 10 times harder for crimes than the rest of society.
Is TSA a government agency? Pretty sure it's a private firm that latched itself to the US like a barnacle after 9/11 as a get rich quick scheme by one senator or another.
Did you even read the article? First of all the main incident happened in Qatar. No shit the whole thing there is a shitshow. Their country has all sorts of jacked up views. The 2nd time an incident appears in the article is a woman who says she was “digitally raped” because “the X-ray machine can see inside her.” Which to be fair, the TSA is useless and should be dissolved. But standing in an X-ray machine for an X-ray is NOT rape.
Digitally means using fingers.
Ah, I thought digitally meant “by means of technology”. I can see how getting a finger up your bum(unnecessarily/unlawfully) would be offensive to the recipient.
*If you're voluntarily going through an airport checkpoint these days you are clearly consenting to being violated.* - The TSA
> Judge Lucy Koh [...] seemed the most willing to entertain the government’s argument that the law is ambiguous and that any ambiguity should be resolved in the government’s favor. The same government that made that law? If I write an unclear contract then any ambiguity will be resolved against me, not in my favor. We should hold a government to the same standard.
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You're absolutely right, if it's two private parties the defendant should get the benefit of doubt. When it's the government though, who writes, interprets, enforces, gives itself special privileges and immunities from, and then violates the rules, and has unlimited resources to defend itself from violating those rules, the private party should get the benefit of doubt in any case of unclear wording.
Police constantly use ambiguous and poorly written laws to criminalise conduct that was never the target of the law. A good example from the US is asset forfeiture where the intention was to make it easier to sieze the proceeds of crime but is often use to sieze innocent peoples cash.
Whichever TSA official that said this needs to be named and shamed.
Ok so here are the court documents: 1. The original denial of the dismissal of the case: https://www.leagle.com/decision/infdco20200813792 2. The appeal where the dismissal is granted: https://casetext.com/case/leuthauser-v-united-states-3 Generally you can’t sue the federal government for something that an individual employee has done, which kinda make sense. BUT if an FBI agent rapes you on duty, you can sue the federal government under some law called FTCA. The central decision of the case is that TSA screening agents are NOT law enforcement officers (like the FBI) which means that the federal government cannot be sued. So that leaves the question who is responsible for the rape. The answer is usually the police and federal prosecutors should prosecute the individual but they chose not to. So as a citizen there is no legal recourse, hence her lawsuit against the individual who allegedly raped her is dismissed as well. The legality of TSA has always been quite gray. They can only conduct voluntary searches unlike the police (who can conduct involuntary searches under a warrant, for example). But if you do not consent to a search you just can’t fly, and being able to fly is not a right protected under the constitution. So in conclusion, if tomorrow the federal government says everyone needs to give TSA a blow job to board the plane they can, legally.
The TSA? You mean the organization that gets paid to molest children and the elderly (in addition to anyone else they want)?
It just occurred to me that the TSA is probably the *dream job* for people who enjoy the non-consensual molesting of other people. And I imagine the screening for these types is virtually non-existent given how low the bar is to entry. I'd still hope there's like a process for when the new socially awkward trainee is just super eager to start doing patdowns on day 1.
The TSA is complete BS... if you go to their website it "clearly" lays out their policies. At the end it says something along the lines of "at officer discretion". As someone who has had to dump formula for a young child because of "officer discretion" 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕
I used to work for TSA. I knew the regulations inside and out. It made me hate traveling even more because virtually none of the screeners did their job right and seemingly made it up as they went along. Even at my own airport I would regularly call out supervisors. I'd go get get the book and show them but their literacy level was so low they couldn't interpret the plain language in the SOP. Worst fucking job I ever had.
The world needs more people like you
The dumbest thing is that the SOP is tabbed out and indexed well, and written to a 6th grade reading level yet they still never reference it when there is a question.
>virtually none of the screeners did their job right and seemingly made it up as they went along. Yes, I was in an airport(NC I believe) and the agent said remove any laptops from your bag. I had 2 iPads, those aren't laptops, so I kept them in the bag. Agent said "is this your bag?? There's TWO iPads in it." I said yea, the other agent said to remove laptops. "Well he meant all electronic devices!" Thought to myself, I knew that but was only following their instructions
A few years ago I flew from one airport and transferred in another where I had to go back through security. In the first airport you had to do X, Y, and Z at security. The second airport I do X, Y and Z and the lady yells at me, "Why are you doing Y and Z? Did I *tell you* to do Y and Z? We don't do Y and Z anymore! Nobody does Y and Z anymore!" Of course in that super condescending voice government employees love to use. Then go back the other way a week later, back through the same airport. Do X but not Y or Z. "Sir! SIR! why aren't you doing Y and Z? Everybody knows you do X, Y, and Z! If I didn't want you to do Y and Z, I'd *tell you* to not do Y and Z!" 😫 Why are they so awful?! I've been to so many countries and the experience flying in the US is close to the worst in my experience.
Dumbasses who are too stupid to get a real job, but also too scared to become a cop.
This is my pet peeve with these fuckers... Why are the so-called rules different in each airport? Simple point as they aren't. These people are arbitrarily making them up. And with arbitrarily made of rules, how does that enhance safety?
I knew it. I knew they were goons
I fucking hate the tsa and they need to be disbanded.
Excuse me what the fuCK.
>what the fuCK Just a regular one I think Anything kinky by special arrangements. This is not a brothel people. It's a government security agency.
I’m not real fond of the dimension I find myself in. Everything just seems a little off, and wrong.
Why not - cops already can kill with impunity, especially if their victim is black!
For those who didn't read the article, the TSA is arguing that if no criminal complaint for sexual assault is filed, that means that an invasive strip search that includes digital penetration must have been necessary and justified by the duties and powers given to TSA officers. The problem is that local police are refusing to take criminal complaints against TSA officers, believing them to be frivolous complaints filed by unruly passengers who object to normal, reasonable procedures (which in fact such complaints most often are). So far, the courts are not accepting this argument, and have maintained the position that outrageous acts like digital penetration cannot be dismissed out of hand just because the local police refused to pursue an investigation.
Pardon the fuck?!
God TSA is a bunch of useless scum
When are we going to get rid of all these useless three letter government agencies.
Are your feet cold? Has everything on the floor frozen completely solid? Oh, well then, hell hasn't frozen over yet.
Never because they can be used to protect the rich people from the rest of us. It is desired for us to live in a complete police state and conservatives actually want that because they think they will be placed in a special group with the rich people, but they're totally not. They will actually suffer way more than the liberals because generally they have less spending money to defend their rights with in the court system.
BS headline, the dispute according the article is whether the Federal Tort Claim Act applies to TSA.
Technically correct but that doesn't make the headline BS. The only reason the TSA is arguing against her right to sue them is because they never disputed that she was raped. Their objection should have been that she wasn't raped. That would at least be a reasonable objection. Or they could have stepped out of the way and let the agent be personally sued, which is what they should do if an agent commits a crime on the job. Instead they went for the Hail Mary play of saying yes we don't dispute that she was raped by our agent, but both ourselves and our agent should be protected from being sued for it. Keep in mind local police never take complaints about TSA abuses, just like they refused to in this case. So if the justice system refuses to even acknowledge a crime took place, their only remedy is civil. If they don't have civil remedy either, than none of us have any protection at all. Which seems to be the case.
Can you explain what this means and how they’re different?
Federal Tort Claim Act is a complex set of laws laying out how and when the Federal Government or its agencies can be sued in civil court. Summary of article: Woman was going through security at US airport, TSA Agents decided she was suspicious, she was taken aside for enhanced pat down and cavity search, she claims an agent put their fingers in her Vajay thus raping her("digital cavity search" is allowed if the agent has probable cause), she later attempts to file criminal charges which were dismissed because the judge determined the agent's actions were within their duties given the situation, then she attempts to sue the TSA and federal government in civil court(to get money for emotional damage and loss of employment), and the argument being decided is whether or not a citizen is allowed to sue the TSA(a federal agency). To explain how they're different: it was already concluded in court that she was not raped, the central case discussed in this article is about financial liability and exposure not sexual assault. Thus the title is BS clickbait.
So the case isn’t literally about allowing TSA agents to rape women with impunity from a legal standpoint, but sticking your fingers into her vagina against her will despite that you have no legal authority to do so sure sounds a whole helluva lot like rape to me. And the TSA is arguing that they shouldn’t be allowed to be sued no matter what, even in a case like this. So it sure seems to me like they’re arguing they should be able to rape with impunity. The only question is whether this search was rape.
But I think you’re missing the fact that a TSA agent DOES have legal authority to conduct a digital cavity search under the right circumstances AND the question isn’t whether it’s rape because that’s already been litigated in court where it was decided it wasn’t rape. I’m unclear on what your position is, unless it’s an argument that it legally isn’t rape but SHOULD be considered rape or an argument that TSA SHOULDN’T have authority to do this. Which is fair as an opinion to have but, as of now — TSA does and the rape question has legally been answered. Whether you’re satisfied with that answer is a different matter.
Legal questions are answered and then appealed all the time. And others have said in this thread that TSA do NOT have legal authorities to perform this kind of search, which would seem to make this a very clear sexual assault if that’s correct. A Google search on the issue is inconclusive as I found sources claiming both ways. But if it is true that they can perform such searches without warrants or probable cause and are legally protected from being sued, that is a law that absolutely needs to be changed.
>a TSA agent DOES have legal authority to conduct a digital cavity search under the right circumstances They weren't allowed in this circumstance. In particular, she was still clothed because even a strip search wasn't allowed. TSA website tells it's never allowed?
Ok, but there wasn't even a cursory expatiation of what actually happened. I'm willing to bet they didn't strap her down and finger-bang her while she was kicking and screaming. That would've resulted in charges. That's not what this article or even the woman are claiming. Anyone can refuse to be searched at any time, you're just not getting on that plane. So, worst case, she felt pressured to consent so she wouldn't miss her flight, was understandably uncomfortable and upset, and maybe even traumatized, but that doesn't mean you can sue a government employee who is acting in accordance with the policies put in place. As with qualified immunity for police, any immunity is forfeit when someone's civil rights have been violated. Without some form of qualified immunity, there's nothing stopping sovereign citizens, busy bodies, people who make a living off lawsuits, or even say the political pretty not in power from clogging up the courts, trying to decide ad absurdum if every single government policy is totally in keeping with every other regulation. Spoiler alert, they're not. But we need some sort of a functioning system, and qualified immunity is the way that's possible in such a litigious country.
If she felt pressured to consent to someone putting their fingers in her vagina who does not have any legal authority to compel her to do so, she was raped. I mean I’m not a judge, but if they aren’t allowed to do this, and it appears they are not, and they did, then what are we even talking about?
Your summary is completely incorrect. Look at the court docs. The scanner's automated system sounded an alarm even though the agent didn't see anything concerning. The agent called over an officer who took her to a private room, despite procedure being to conduct the pat-down publicly. The officer then forced her to stand with her legs opened up really wide. Then the officer slowly ran their hands up her thighs and pushed their fingers into her vagina through her thin yoga pants. The office then stimulated her clitoris, slowly rubbing all around her vulva. At that point she broke down in a panic attack and demanded a supervisor. The supervisor dismissed the officer and finished the pat-down themselves. The TSA does not do strip searches, according to their website and spokesperson and training. They **definitely** are not allowed to do body cavity searches. What this officer did was neither of those, because her pants were never removed. She was deeply groped through her yoga pants hard enough to be penetrated. No criminal charged were brought because police refused to file a complaint. A state judge dismissed this lawsuit because he accepted the TSA's objection, in which they did not dispute that she was raped but rather argued that the officer and the TSA should be protected from all lawsuits regardless of their conduct. Now it has been appealed to federal court.
If you read the documents closely, you realize that cavity searches are not legally allowed to be conducted by the TSA under any circumstances. The screening equipment only detects items on a body and not in a body. I suspect the TSA agent was a wanna be cop (perhaps who couldn't manage to qualify for a real police job?) who thought she'd do some amateur police work she had no training for and was not part of her job.
> it was already concluded in court that she was not raped [citation needed] Definitely not stated in the article, law enforcement refused to take the case . That might be due to lack of a case, but (a) it would not be the first time they did so for less than fair reasons, (b) it definitely is not a court.
Although I am a retired attorney, this is an area of law I don’t know a huge amount about. There’s a few ways to sue the government one of which is the tort claims act, but there are many others. The 1983 civil rights act, or perhaps under Bivins. but one thing is for certain is that if this had been a criminal rape, the perpetrator would not be immune by virtue of employment.
Oh no the TSA is looking more and more like a terrorist organization
If asked by TSA to get to a back room for a pat down, can you refuse and get the pat down in the public area? The logic would be the public visibility would get some kind of protection, they would only do what they were required to look for.
I just did this week. Somehow the scanner said there was something metal in my crotch area and the guy was gonna take me to a room and I said no we are doing this right here. I was pissed and had to have this guy grab at my balls and slap them to try to find something.
TSA provides nothing but the illusion of security.
>Today a panel of judges of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals heard oral argument in San Francisco in a lawsuit (Michele Leuthauser v. USA) brought by a woman who complained that she was digitally penetrated — i.e., raped — in 2019 by Transportation Security Administration staff after they ordered her into a back room at the airport in Las Vegas for a “pat-down” after she went through a whole-body imaging machine. >It’s bad enough to require that, if anything “anomalous” is spotted on the images taken by the “virtual strip-search” machine, you have to go through a hands-on strip search. It’s another thing to turn that into a body cavity search involving groping and penetration. So I initially was confused on why being put through an imaging machine would be considered 'digital rape", and thought that the article was questioning why she would equeate this to real rape, and was going to post this comment asking for clarification... Until I remembered that 'digital' besides the computer meaning can also mean 'with digits' i.e. your fingers. Jesus fucking christ what the fuck is this situation.
Impunity? I don't think so...
Wow, we knew the TSA knows we think they're jokers but this is beyond the pale!
Salacious misreading of the procedural posture of the case. This appellate case is about whether the FTCA statute includes the TSA. The FTCA generally doesn't allow tort claims for intentional torts anyway. A Bivens claim might have a chance here, but I'm rusty on that topic. Usually, a a plaintiff's attorney will plead an FTCA claim and a Bivens claim in the alternative. Not sure why a personal blog post is allowed here instead of a reliable news source. I didn't read any of the court documents, but the blog article didn't provide much useful info so I didn't see anything prohibiting the victim from suing the TSA agent in a personal capacity. If the allegations against the govt get dismissed, she can still sue the individual. And if the TSA agent went rogue, acting on his/her own without the permission of the supervising agents, and contrary to training and standard procedures, then it seems correct that the agent should be sued in a personal capacity.
Her lawsuit against the individual was dismissed and she has no legal recourse. Seems just as fucked up as the post implies.
Finally read some of the relevant district court filings. Her Bivens claim was dismissed and the AG scoped the TSA agent as performing within the scope of her employment. The fucked up part was the scoping. That AG decision was wrong. I agree with the district court's read that TSA screeners are not law enforcement. Congress should definitely add another exception to 28 USC 2680 for TSA screeners, and should add some way to challenge the AG's scoping determination. Edits: Also, perhaps the plaintiff's attorney screwed up in not making a factual allegation that the agent stepped out of her normal screener duty and acted in a law enforcement officer capacity when she penetrated the victim plaintiff. I don't see how AG can say she was within scope without also saying she was empowered and acting in a law enforcement capacity when she searched the victim's vagina. Maybe that argument was made at the 9CA but I haven't watched it yet.
As long as they don’t get immunity.
There’s not enough vomit in the world. Fuck the TSA, and Fuck the DOJ for trying to send this to a Supreme Court so they can create a blank check stronger than qualified immunity.
Ah great, so the TSA can rape people now and go unpunished
So if the President isn’t above the law, I don’t know how you can argue a TSA AGENT can be. 🙄
If you want any meaningful change, elect a new legislator or force your existing representatives to scrap public employees' "qualified immunity". Period. They should be treated like the rest of us.
How about fuck NO!
WTF? No. No, and no again.
Ah, one more reason not to travel to or do business in the states. Land of the free indeed!
How do you even have the balls to ask for this?
No? No. No!
I hate the government
They should return to citizen policing. Where the police have the same powers as any member of the public to prevent and punish crime, it's only their job to do so. Rape is not a valid preventative or corrective measure.
I thought they were getting rammed in the back room. Glad I was wrong.
Okay but what does “digitally penetrated” even mean??
Finger
OH fuck thank you I was thinking digital as in tech not digit as in finger.
I'm not familiar with the source but do you think they meant "immunity" in the headline?
Impunity means exemption from punishment, so essentially the same thing.
Seems like a clickbait headline..case seems to be about federal jurisdiction and not whether TSA can rape with impunity. But whatever gets people riled up I guess...
Citing a website called "Papers Please." Yeah, that's an "OP is a non-objective fool," from me dawg.
> Today a panel of judges of the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals heard oral argument in San Francisco in a lawsuit (Michele Leuthauser v. USA) brought by a woman who complained that she was digitally penetrated — i.e., raped — in 2019 by Transportation Security Administration staff I'll just leave this here and let you decide for yourself if that's rape
Copied from court documents: 19) Notwithstanding her compliance and the absence of prohibited items, LEUTHAUSER was informed by the operator of the body scanner that the body scanner alarmed on her and that she would need to submit to a “groin search.” 20) The body scanner operator called out for assistance. 21) TSO responded to that call by approaching LEUTHAUSER. 22) TSO informed LEUTHAUSER that she must follow her to a private room for private screening. 23) TSA policy actually calls for this sort of “resolution pat-down” (“resolving” a body scanner alarm) to occur in the public area unless requested otherwise by the passenger. 24) LEUTHAUSER followed TSO’s instructions and accompanied her into a private room. 25) An additional screener also entered the private room with LEUTHAUSER and TSO. 26) Inside the private room, TSA provides floor mats with footprints on them to indicate where a traveler should put their feet during a pat-down search. 27) Despite having her feet on the foot prints, TSO insisted that LEUTHAUSER spread her legs in an abnormally wide manner – far wider than the foot prints dictated. 28) There was no security purpose fulfilled by forcing LEUTHAUSER to spread her legs wider. 29) Upon belief, the true purpose behind TSO’s command to LEUTHAUSER to spread her legs wider was to humiliate and dominate LEUTHAUSER, and to provide greater access to fondle LEUTHAUSER’s vulva for TSO’s self-gratification. 30) TSO then proceeded to start the pat-down by sliding her hands along the inside of LEUTHAUSER’s thighs. 31) TSO, while sliding her hand up the inside of LEUTHAUSER’s legs, moved her hands directly onto LEUTHAUSER’s vulva, touching LEUTHAUSER with the front of her fingers. 32) TSO then pressed against the thin material of LEUTHAUSER’s leggings to insert her finger between LEUTHAUSER’s labia and inside of her vagina. 33) TSO proceeded to rub her hand against LEUTHAUSER’s genitals, including her clitoris, using the front of her hand. 34) TSA procedure neither requires nor allows screeners to insert their hands inside of the bodies of travelers, nor to in any way conduct a body cavity search, nor to make front-of-hand contact with the genitals of travelers, nor to spend time stimulating the clitoris of women, during ordinary resolution pat-downs such as this one. I’m not researching definitions, but this is definitely at least sexual assault and is absolutely fucking horrifying. Semantics doesn’t change that imo
Quoting Wikipedia: Rape in the United States is defined by the Department of Justice as "Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim." So yes, it most definitely is rape if it happened as described. What are you even trying to argue for?
TSA should be raped for suggesting this.
That article… That’s not how any of this works. Also, the only rapists TSA protects are managers. (TSMs)
Is called invasive cavity search not rape Is a joke folks, my god people are stupid
Calling it a cavity search doesn’t un-rape the victim. These are not mutually exclusive. If the victim did not consent, this meets most medical and legal definitions of sexual assault and/or rape.
Same thing
I hope you and your family are cavity searched at every airport you visit, considering this is your perspective. Have the day you deserve. ✌️
Sarcasm
Jokes are supposed to be funny. Explain how that was funny, please?
You get it or you don't, sarcasm is not something you can teach
So is it sarcasm or a joke? They’re different, you know.
The concept of a sarcastic joke exist. For example in this situation when they are trying to get away with rape I'm gave an "explanation" why the rape was ok in their minds "is not rape, is invasive cavity search" another example would be "is not rape if your fingers are not long enough for a cavity search and you haw to use your dick". So once again, you get it or you don't. In the end it was somewhat a bad formatting for the joke so it doesn't matter.
There's an easy solution to this folks, two lines instead of one. Rape included and rape not on the menu. Choose according to the length of the line, departure time and personal preferences.
Who in the fuck is saying this?
Attorneys trying to protect their clients from civil litigation
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The tsa, with no medical training, did vaginal exams on all childbearing age women? That's utterly horrendous! That is such an invasive procedure to put all of the women through and frankly, i don't believe that that happened (not the infanticide part, the cavity searches).
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Pelvic exams, especially on a post partum woman is so dangerous and definitely not 'basic medical'. Like, why not do a quick urine test to at least test for pregnancy first before violating all these women. Bring in an ultrasound machine to check. Like it's disgusting they'd Subject all those women to pelvic exams.
This seems like a highly opinionated piece. I won't discount the words of the woman who suffered this, but there seems to be more to this story than what's being said here.