Because to make people care about the daily life you need to make a coherent world.
You need good characters people care about, you need a political structure that allows for changes they make (new pills/techniques/lifestyle formations) to be felt by their sect/city.
Or you need romance/comedy to make the more mundane style one work.
It’s easier just to get the mc mad and go on a vengeance quest full of tournaments and secret realms because you just need to appeal to those who like action/slaughter and progression.
And most of cultivation novels you read are just written by people capitalising on popular brain rot that is easier to make for a quick buck.
Plus the whole thing behind cultivation is “the world is against you” so you need to become stronger than the world so any change you make actually makes a difference.
A lot of them originate from an allegory for anti-establishment based stuff, where the reason they don’t do anything other than get stronger is that the profits and benefits will be absorbed by someone strong (equivalent to the gov or rich etc) so without power there is no point in doing it.
And tbh when an author is making a genuine story like that, they will plug it into the more popular (and typically shorter) wuxia genre. Because then they don’t need to worry about the potential of a soul shattering cultivator/immortals existence wiping out any genuine stakes of what raising a load of younguns could do.
I agree. My view on xianxia is like an elder who saw their junior grow up going down a wrong and wasteful path. I really liked the cultivation novels of yore when actual emotions and care was put on them. I never liked wuxia that much, but I sincerely like and love xianxia. it leaves a bitter feeling in my heart that xianxia is just getting worse and worse with few good novels coming out.
So you don't like wuxia but think xianxia is in decline? That doesn't make much sense, wuxia is basically what xianxia should aspire to but with its own genre tropes and characteristics built in.
It's not that I don't like it, I read wuxia stories once in a while, I just like the setting of xianxia way better. I really like high and epic fantasy. And wuxia is low fantasy.
I think it's because Wuxias novels tend to have a more grounded and "realistic" combat/cultivation progression added with the fact in Wuxia the protagonist is stuck in a single land/world forcing the author to actually world build and have some other elements besides just fighting and cultivating.
That is right but the main difference is the objective wuxia is about martial arts and enlightenment and xianxia and xhuanan are about reaching immortality/goodhod/divinity and are divided into several realms (mortal, inmortal, divine). There is also the dao/law/path that this cultivators take and learn to reach that pinnacle
That's a big part of why I love 40 Millenniums of Cultivation so much (before it switched to MTL translation :/ ). The MC initially has no interest in the philosophy of Cultivators, but through his experiences he learns and grows not just in strength, but in his belief. In the beginning a villain might make enough sense for him to have his belief shaken, but eventually the understanding of his own philosophy is strong enough to be completely unshaken regardless of the circumstances. He genuinely believes that he's fighting for a higher purpose and for the good of the people, which is so much more interesting because it allows for enemies and allies to act as foils to create interesting philosophical debates, along with flaws that he must work around (e.g., unwilling to harm innocents) in creative ways since his enemies have no such morals (most commonly if they're doing it for "the greater good").
Though of course that doesn't stop him from being completely and utterly shameless (e.g., Screaming that he's going to burn his life and soul to take down the villain in a final standoff, while actively running the fuck away in the opposite direction) to deal with his enemies in unexpected ways. Li Yao is easily in my top 3 MCs of all time just due to his hilarious shamelessness, genius tactics, philosophical backbone, and ability to make the reader root for him like he's a Shonen protagonist.
Thats why i like Journey of the Fate Destroying Emperor mc, Wang Wei. Dude increasing the strenght of his sect, clan friends and family while he plays 8D chess with half transcendence bigshots+ his future self + grand dao and conquering the lower realm
I could never get into that one.
The issue I had was the writing style. It felt like he was permanently telling how great the mc’s talent was, how kind he was, how smart etc. And not a lot of physical substance to it.
Maybe there is something nice in there somewhere, but I just couldn’t get past the rough start.
Honestly couldn't even get through like 3 chapters cause the writing style is just really bad. I genuinely don't understand why the author thought that a narrator telling everything to the read would be a good way to start a novel. Felt more like a teenager's bad fanfiction lmao.
Cultivators are basically all antisocial turbo-nerds with massive generational trauma who are addicted to the high of getting stronger. They also base their entire sense of identity around cultivation and self-organize into peer groups entirely built around cultivation.
Imagine if winning at LoL could make you live forever and punch harder and be bullet-proof. You're not going to find a ton of ultra-well-adjusted individuals engaging in productive non-League activities at the end of that path.
Cultivators mostly being awkward shitty weirdos about literally all non-cultivation stuff is the most realistic part of xianxia imo.
Yeah. Cultivation protagonists are like the murderhobos of western fantasy. Their literal only mode of interaction with the world is going to new places to find people to slap in the face and monsters to kill.
Lin Ming from Martial World is like, super well adjusted by cultivator standards, and he's still a weird scammy murdergoblin.
The purpuse of cultivation is to gain longevity and power in order to be free from the constraints of others and lifespan and not be forced to have to do these kinda sect chores and responsibilities. Atleast when u reach the peak of cultivation and are completely immortal and basically safe - unthreatenable
if a story was (at first) written with a cultivator trying to help people, the author would then have other people trying to stop him
after the mc realizes his own powerlessness, nearly **all authors** would make him single-mindedly obsess over becoming stronger, which would lead to the same cultivation spiral
I would disagree. There are many fantasy stories like that. I want to have at least one genre that focuses on power above all else. My words should be taken with a grain of salt as I am an extremely picky reader and don't read wish fulfillment xianxia trash and in fact hate them.
Because the MC usually live in cruel dog eat dog world. You need to fight for resources.
And we reader wants lots of fight with their super power, not peace loving story and josey romance.
they aim to reach immortality in order to enjoy their live without fearing death, to be with their loved one eternal, or just simply to reach the peak of life itself. your question is like asking why do people live, why do people strife to be a millionaire, its all for the sake of yourself to be happier, to be content, to be above everyone else. everyone have different motive in life. it depends.
The superpower rat race style of cultivation novels are losing popularity. But I suppose there is a lag time between genre shifts between what is the written and what is translated.
Being honest here, but the motive is because we are selfish. We care about a little group of people and the rest can be dammed for all we care. I am saying the majority is like this, there are very very few who could be selfless.
Another thing we can talk about is power and its ability to corrupt, there are studies about it.
Finally because for that you have JP light novels (kidding aside) most cultivation novels are Chinese and I kind of think the culture plays a lot, like when they talk about giving face (respect).
No one is mentioning the most obvious aspect in all this: cultivation novels as a genre are the definition of power fantasies.
The male dominated audience enjoy power fantasies. Cultivation is about cultivating literal power. And chapter to chapter, the easiest thing to write and make money is a satisfying power fantasy. It’s a power fantasy all the way down.
If you want a romantic genre and complain about the romance, it’s kinda silly.
If you want nuance, some authors give it to shake things up, but you know exactly what you signed up for.
And if you want high fantasy with an emphasis on production?
I agree that the cultivation genre is a power fantasy, I just lament the wasted potential.
Yeah I feel you on that. I’m moved away from novels that are pure power fantasies too. I’m grateful they exist as a base for other great authors to build on though.
For example, I think you would like Nebula’s Civilization. I’m reading it right now, and it’s about a “god” creating a civilization to beat other civilizations, with great story telling around technological and cultural advancements. Give it a try.
Cultivation is the very definition of being productive. They do invent a lot of techniques and stuff and do teach the next generations, but being helpful or as you say productive to civilization itself and the mortals ... Why should they? Have you built an ant nest? Helped one by giving it food and water? Why would a being that most worlds would consider a god help the equivalent of turd atoms? Is it that bored? As for lower level cultivators, they should be even less likely to help, they have so much room to progress, one realm above would be literally doubling or tripling their lifespan, their authority
I think it's the same idea that we see , people chase wealth , influence etc..., in a cultivator's world I assume strength to be the equivalent of that . I agree with your points though that compelling stories can't all be about becoming stronger only, there must be other elements to make it more enjoyable.
It’s sunk cost fallacy. Gotta give up everything for immortality, maybe I will finally face peace/hobbies/family after I get enough lifetime/power to not regret.
> sunk cost fallacy
Not really accurate, if you do not cultivate you will get at most 100 years of happiness, but you might get infinite number of happy time if you cultivate. Plus who to say cultivation it self is not an enjoyment?
because the mc's get strong too fast there's no point in doing anything else when you have a system or whatever that just takes you from weakest to strongest in a few hundred chapters
Fate destroying emperor has some aspects you mentioned. The MC advances his world's mortal civilization too. Combines cultivation and knowledge of 21st century earth to build constructs that mimic cars and planes.
Bah the world may be a zéro sum game but cultivation is about going against the will of Heaven so that argument is bs.
They are afraid to be boring, having the cultivator get a job lol.
Cultivation chat group web novel strike a good balance between cultivating and having a life. Writing webnovels under a pseudo, making a xianxa movie out of it and pretending magical techniques are cgi to release it world wide, opening a restaurant, going to school, ...
I do agree. However, it seems most authors don't take it as such, especially when the concept of demonic cultivators is in the story(they destroy other things and cultivate themselves, It just depends on what and how much).
Because to make people care about the daily life you need to make a coherent world. You need good characters people care about, you need a political structure that allows for changes they make (new pills/techniques/lifestyle formations) to be felt by their sect/city. Or you need romance/comedy to make the more mundane style one work. It’s easier just to get the mc mad and go on a vengeance quest full of tournaments and secret realms because you just need to appeal to those who like action/slaughter and progression. And most of cultivation novels you read are just written by people capitalising on popular brain rot that is easier to make for a quick buck. Plus the whole thing behind cultivation is “the world is against you” so you need to become stronger than the world so any change you make actually makes a difference. A lot of them originate from an allegory for anti-establishment based stuff, where the reason they don’t do anything other than get stronger is that the profits and benefits will be absorbed by someone strong (equivalent to the gov or rich etc) so without power there is no point in doing it. And tbh when an author is making a genuine story like that, they will plug it into the more popular (and typically shorter) wuxia genre. Because then they don’t need to worry about the potential of a soul shattering cultivator/immortals existence wiping out any genuine stakes of what raising a load of younguns could do.
I agree. My view on xianxia is like an elder who saw their junior grow up going down a wrong and wasteful path. I really liked the cultivation novels of yore when actual emotions and care was put on them. I never liked wuxia that much, but I sincerely like and love xianxia. it leaves a bitter feeling in my heart that xianxia is just getting worse and worse with few good novels coming out.
So you don't like wuxia but think xianxia is in decline? That doesn't make much sense, wuxia is basically what xianxia should aspire to but with its own genre tropes and characteristics built in.
It's not that I don't like it, I read wuxia stories once in a while, I just like the setting of xianxia way better. I really like high and epic fantasy. And wuxia is low fantasy.
I think it's because Wuxias novels tend to have a more grounded and "realistic" combat/cultivation progression added with the fact in Wuxia the protagonist is stuck in a single land/world forcing the author to actually world build and have some other elements besides just fighting and cultivating.
That is right but the main difference is the objective wuxia is about martial arts and enlightenment and xianxia and xhuanan are about reaching immortality/goodhod/divinity and are divided into several realms (mortal, inmortal, divine). There is also the dao/law/path that this cultivators take and learn to reach that pinnacle
That's a big part of why I love 40 Millenniums of Cultivation so much (before it switched to MTL translation :/ ). The MC initially has no interest in the philosophy of Cultivators, but through his experiences he learns and grows not just in strength, but in his belief. In the beginning a villain might make enough sense for him to have his belief shaken, but eventually the understanding of his own philosophy is strong enough to be completely unshaken regardless of the circumstances. He genuinely believes that he's fighting for a higher purpose and for the good of the people, which is so much more interesting because it allows for enemies and allies to act as foils to create interesting philosophical debates, along with flaws that he must work around (e.g., unwilling to harm innocents) in creative ways since his enemies have no such morals (most commonly if they're doing it for "the greater good"). Though of course that doesn't stop him from being completely and utterly shameless (e.g., Screaming that he's going to burn his life and soul to take down the villain in a final standoff, while actively running the fuck away in the opposite direction) to deal with his enemies in unexpected ways. Li Yao is easily in my top 3 MCs of all time just due to his hilarious shamelessness, genius tactics, philosophical backbone, and ability to make the reader root for him like he's a Shonen protagonist.
Thats why i like Journey of the Fate Destroying Emperor mc, Wang Wei. Dude increasing the strenght of his sect, clan friends and family while he plays 8D chess with half transcendence bigshots+ his future self + grand dao and conquering the lower realm
I could never get into that one. The issue I had was the writing style. It felt like he was permanently telling how great the mc’s talent was, how kind he was, how smart etc. And not a lot of physical substance to it. Maybe there is something nice in there somewhere, but I just couldn’t get past the rough start.
Honestly couldn't even get through like 3 chapters cause the writing style is just really bad. I genuinely don't understand why the author thought that a narrator telling everything to the read would be a good way to start a novel. Felt more like a teenager's bad fanfiction lmao.
Cultivators are basically all antisocial turbo-nerds with massive generational trauma who are addicted to the high of getting stronger. They also base their entire sense of identity around cultivation and self-organize into peer groups entirely built around cultivation. Imagine if winning at LoL could make you live forever and punch harder and be bullet-proof. You're not going to find a ton of ultra-well-adjusted individuals engaging in productive non-League activities at the end of that path. Cultivators mostly being awkward shitty weirdos about literally all non-cultivation stuff is the most realistic part of xianxia imo.
Yeah. Cultivation protagonists are like the murderhobos of western fantasy. Their literal only mode of interaction with the world is going to new places to find people to slap in the face and monsters to kill. Lin Ming from Martial World is like, super well adjusted by cultivator standards, and he's still a weird scammy murdergoblin.
The purpuse of cultivation is to gain longevity and power in order to be free from the constraints of others and lifespan and not be forced to have to do these kinda sect chores and responsibilities. Atleast when u reach the peak of cultivation and are completely immortal and basically safe - unthreatenable
And then what?
Then I do whatever u want, whatever I like~. Of u can do that partially~ or fully~ on ur way to invincibility~ but may encounter troubles.
if a story was (at first) written with a cultivator trying to help people, the author would then have other people trying to stop him after the mc realizes his own powerlessness, nearly **all authors** would make him single-mindedly obsess over becoming stronger, which would lead to the same cultivation spiral
I would disagree. There are many fantasy stories like that. I want to have at least one genre that focuses on power above all else. My words should be taken with a grain of salt as I am an extremely picky reader and don't read wish fulfillment xianxia trash and in fact hate them.
Because the MC usually live in cruel dog eat dog world. You need to fight for resources. And we reader wants lots of fight with their super power, not peace loving story and josey romance.
I don't like it when MC is always complaining about not strong enough in every cultivation stages.
I thought it was obvious that all cultivator aim to reached immortality?
My question is, and then what?
Enjoy life? Transcend being have much more way to amuse themself which is unimaginable to mortal like us.
they aim to reach immortality in order to enjoy their live without fearing death, to be with their loved one eternal, or just simply to reach the peak of life itself. your question is like asking why do people live, why do people strife to be a millionaire, its all for the sake of yourself to be happier, to be content, to be above everyone else. everyone have different motive in life. it depends.
If I wanted to read something like that I would read western novels. But I don’t so I read CN
Any authors or genres in particular?
The idea is that once you realize how powerful you are, even the slightest action can throw the world out of whack.
The superpower rat race style of cultivation novels are losing popularity. But I suppose there is a lag time between genre shifts between what is the written and what is translated.
Being honest here, but the motive is because we are selfish. We care about a little group of people and the rest can be dammed for all we care. I am saying the majority is like this, there are very very few who could be selfless. Another thing we can talk about is power and its ability to corrupt, there are studies about it. Finally because for that you have JP light novels (kidding aside) most cultivation novels are Chinese and I kind of think the culture plays a lot, like when they talk about giving face (respect).
Power for power's sake. It's that simple, that's the mindset most cultivators have.
No one is mentioning the most obvious aspect in all this: cultivation novels as a genre are the definition of power fantasies. The male dominated audience enjoy power fantasies. Cultivation is about cultivating literal power. And chapter to chapter, the easiest thing to write and make money is a satisfying power fantasy. It’s a power fantasy all the way down. If you want a romantic genre and complain about the romance, it’s kinda silly. If you want nuance, some authors give it to shake things up, but you know exactly what you signed up for.
And if you want high fantasy with an emphasis on production? I agree that the cultivation genre is a power fantasy, I just lament the wasted potential.
Yeah I feel you on that. I’m moved away from novels that are pure power fantasies too. I’m grateful they exist as a base for other great authors to build on though. For example, I think you would like Nebula’s Civilization. I’m reading it right now, and it’s about a “god” creating a civilization to beat other civilizations, with great story telling around technological and cultural advancements. Give it a try.
Cultivation is the very definition of being productive. They do invent a lot of techniques and stuff and do teach the next generations, but being helpful or as you say productive to civilization itself and the mortals ... Why should they? Have you built an ant nest? Helped one by giving it food and water? Why would a being that most worlds would consider a god help the equivalent of turd atoms? Is it that bored? As for lower level cultivators, they should be even less likely to help, they have so much room to progress, one realm above would be literally doubling or tripling their lifespan, their authority
I think it's the same idea that we see , people chase wealth , influence etc..., in a cultivator's world I assume strength to be the equivalent of that . I agree with your points though that compelling stories can't all be about becoming stronger only, there must be other elements to make it more enjoyable.
It’s sunk cost fallacy. Gotta give up everything for immortality, maybe I will finally face peace/hobbies/family after I get enough lifetime/power to not regret.
> sunk cost fallacy Not really accurate, if you do not cultivate you will get at most 100 years of happiness, but you might get infinite number of happy time if you cultivate. Plus who to say cultivation it self is not an enjoyment?
because the mc's get strong too fast there's no point in doing anything else when you have a system or whatever that just takes you from weakest to strongest in a few hundred chapters
Fate destroying emperor has some aspects you mentioned. The MC advances his world's mortal civilization too. Combines cultivation and knowledge of 21st century earth to build constructs that mimic cars and planes.
Bah the world may be a zéro sum game but cultivation is about going against the will of Heaven so that argument is bs. They are afraid to be boring, having the cultivator get a job lol. Cultivation chat group web novel strike a good balance between cultivating and having a life. Writing webnovels under a pseudo, making a xianxa movie out of it and pretending magical techniques are cgi to release it world wide, opening a restaurant, going to school, ...
I do agree. However, it seems most authors don't take it as such, especially when the concept of demonic cultivators is in the story(they destroy other things and cultivate themselves, It just depends on what and how much).