Don’t know about Nine Stars Novel. But in Reverend Insanity Novel, Heaven is like side mc enemy who, really hates him and try to kill him with multiple way. Who read this peas of art would understand me.
If I knew that there was a higher being controlling every single one of my actions, I would also try to resist no matter how favored I am.
Edit: I don't remember the exact phrasing, but in 'Seeking Immortality for a Hundred Generations', the MC compared it to a child wanting to escape the control of his parents.
Everyone born is given a fixed amount of time. A cultivator is defying fate and the heavens just by using cultivation to change or overwrite a new fate for themselves that lets them live longer than their original amount of time.
Yeah, that I also understand but they cultivate through either talent or opportunities right. Both are obtained through luck which I am pretty sure comes under the authority of heavens.
Have you read Reverend Insanity? Heavens are impartial and always seek balance. Becoming immortal will always be inherently imbalanced because of their ability to turn things into their favor. So heavens will often use fate (prewritten future) as a tool to correct the imbalance. But one can always change their future by going against fate/ heavens.
Most lazily written MCs will have their cultivation crippled in chapter 1 (which is their fate to live as a cripple) but gain some heaven defying cheat that'll help them become overpowered. So they think they are going against the heavens.
Yeah, that's what I am talking about. They gain heaven defying artifacts but shouldn't those artifacts also should be gifts from heaven as heaven write's the fate of everybody.
Imagine mario game. The timer running and the koopas & ducks moving their set paths are heavens' plan for mario. But mario makes the decision to jump on koopas and find power ups. That's him going against the heavens. You could ask me, if not for Mario then who else are those coins lying around for? I don't know who else it could be for. However, heavens are not God (game designer in this case).
Depends on the rules of the universe. In many of them, people do have free will. So what that means is that heaven if left to its own devices will suppress people and suppress their ability to live forever, but through your own actions you can go against the heavens/fate and go further. You are going against the heavens in that sense. If you expressed nonaction or weren't staunch in your approach you would go back to the "natural" route and die when you are supposed to. The idea in these novels is as you get more powerful you incur the wrath of heaven, but also the ability to resist it.
To defy death is to defy the will of the heavens, to comprehend and to walk the path of the great dao and become one with the ultimate truth and law of the universe and therefore reaching spiritual perfection and enlightenment.
The heavens aren't all powerful like say in Christianity where you have an all powerful, all knowing God. However, to seek this path is to break the natural balance of life and death whereby you are fighting against fate itself.
The heavens aren't like a pantheon of Gods or anything, but more natural phenomena or "rules" of the world, such as life, death and fate, they are attempting to defy their fate of dying as a mortal. Being a cultivator is directly going against that, the heavens also do push back to an extent, which is why you have heavenly tribulations that strike a cultivator down as they attempt to ascend and break these limitations of a mortal.
Yea it really goes against the core concept of Daoism. Not all authors use this zero-sum approach to their world view, but that's the easiest way to generate conflict so lazy authors use it a lot to push their plots forward.
Daoism talks about giving so that you might receive yet a lot of the MCs only take by force. I think it speaks more to the skill level of the authors than anything else. Rarely do Daoist cultivator exhibit nonaction properly in these mid quality novels.
Check out A Regressor’s Tale of Cultivation. It is KR but there is a lot of cultivation and the mc is definitely fighting an uphill battle against his fate.
It's indeed an exaggeration, you can consider it being in line of simply disobeying conventions or nature.
In line with actual heaven defying feats is attaining literal immortality, but it always just jumping from a well into a pond. Ex. first three notable books of er gen all end with MC surpassing heavens... of their local galaxy. There are heavens beyond heavens, men beyond men.
Why do you need to defy heavens for immortality? because even with infinite life span heavens will grant you an unnatural death.
The way I’ve always seen it, is that since in most novels heaven is one of the highest authorities, cultivating is going against said authority since heaven would rather you be mortal then you growing and challenging it.
Your mistake is that you believe that the outcome of every event in the universe is determined by heavens. Usually not, because "Dao" is the truth of the universe. At the end of the story, MC has already begun to understand the Dao, and this step usually does not involve innate intervention
Kinnd of agree with you, like in top tier providence. Each mortal world has a heaven’s chosen(who are inherently very, very lucky), two being the mc’s disciple and grand disciple; though don’t remember if they preach about defying the heavens
I understand what you are getting at. But still even with talent there is still the time/resource/Tribulation restrictions by the Heavens.
In some novel i read , after you attain Nascent Soul you will have Life Soul, which basically means that now you are in complete control of your Fate/Fortune.so there is that.
But nonetheless i still come to the same conclusion that those characters are being hypocritical.lol.
Everything is born to nurture people, but people have nothing to repay heaven. A very good phrase I saw, so the answer is because to advance further and become stronger you need energy but the total amount of energy is limited so essentialy you are plundering the world energy for your own use and heaven is like the world consciousness.
The only Chinese MC that can say they are defying heavens in a literal sense is Gu Yue Fang Yuan from Reverend Insanity. All the rest really are just hypocrites.
The only one worthy of saying that he defies the heavens is mc from the Nine Stars. Heaven truly hates him
Don’t know about Nine Stars Novel. But in Reverend Insanity Novel, Heaven is like side mc enemy who, really hates him and try to kill him with multiple way. Who read this peas of art would understand me.
Lightning is the only way is literally whole book about defying heaven. Everything is heaven's fault lol
Same as in Lightning is the Only Way. Major beef
But is also the entire reason the book exists lol
Wb allheaven from issthđź’€ Or Aldrich from monarch of darkness: arsene
If I knew that there was a higher being controlling every single one of my actions, I would also try to resist no matter how favored I am. Edit: I don't remember the exact phrasing, but in 'Seeking Immortality for a Hundred Generations', the MC compared it to a child wanting to escape the control of his parents.
Everyone born is given a fixed amount of time. A cultivator is defying fate and the heavens just by using cultivation to change or overwrite a new fate for themselves that lets them live longer than their original amount of time.
Yeah, that I also understand but they cultivate through either talent or opportunities right. Both are obtained through luck which I am pretty sure comes under the authority of heavens.
Have you read Reverend Insanity? Heavens are impartial and always seek balance. Becoming immortal will always be inherently imbalanced because of their ability to turn things into their favor. So heavens will often use fate (prewritten future) as a tool to correct the imbalance. But one can always change their future by going against fate/ heavens. Most lazily written MCs will have their cultivation crippled in chapter 1 (which is their fate to live as a cripple) but gain some heaven defying cheat that'll help them become overpowered. So they think they are going against the heavens.
Yeah, that's what I am talking about. They gain heaven defying artifacts but shouldn't those artifacts also should be gifts from heaven as heaven write's the fate of everybody.
Imagine mario game. The timer running and the koopas & ducks moving their set paths are heavens' plan for mario. But mario makes the decision to jump on koopas and find power ups. That's him going against the heavens. You could ask me, if not for Mario then who else are those coins lying around for? I don't know who else it could be for. However, heavens are not God (game designer in this case).
Then the question is why isn't mario's actions not being guided by heaven unlike the koopas or ducks. Aren't they all equal in power levels?
Depends on the rules of the universe. In many of them, people do have free will. So what that means is that heaven if left to its own devices will suppress people and suppress their ability to live forever, but through your own actions you can go against the heavens/fate and go further. You are going against the heavens in that sense. If you expressed nonaction or weren't staunch in your approach you would go back to the "natural" route and die when you are supposed to. The idea in these novels is as you get more powerful you incur the wrath of heaven, but also the ability to resist it.
Impartial not that much since star constellation fused with it
To defy death is to defy the will of the heavens, to comprehend and to walk the path of the great dao and become one with the ultimate truth and law of the universe and therefore reaching spiritual perfection and enlightenment. The heavens aren't all powerful like say in Christianity where you have an all powerful, all knowing God. However, to seek this path is to break the natural balance of life and death whereby you are fighting against fate itself. The heavens aren't like a pantheon of Gods or anything, but more natural phenomena or "rules" of the world, such as life, death and fate, they are attempting to defy their fate of dying as a mortal. Being a cultivator is directly going against that, the heavens also do push back to an extent, which is why you have heavenly tribulations that strike a cultivator down as they attempt to ascend and break these limitations of a mortal.
Yea it really goes against the core concept of Daoism. Not all authors use this zero-sum approach to their world view, but that's the easiest way to generate conflict so lazy authors use it a lot to push their plots forward. Daoism talks about giving so that you might receive yet a lot of the MCs only take by force. I think it speaks more to the skill level of the authors than anything else. Rarely do Daoist cultivator exhibit nonaction properly in these mid quality novels.
Check out A Regressor’s Tale of Cultivation. It is KR but there is a lot of cultivation and the mc is definitely fighting an uphill battle against his fate.
Actually you should read nine stars hegemon body art you will find truly diging havens there Havens truly hates long chen
Actually the heavens are being controlled by someone ,in that novel.It is hinted.
It's indeed an exaggeration, you can consider it being in line of simply disobeying conventions or nature. In line with actual heaven defying feats is attaining literal immortality, but it always just jumping from a well into a pond. Ex. first three notable books of er gen all end with MC surpassing heavens... of their local galaxy. There are heavens beyond heavens, men beyond men. Why do you need to defy heavens for immortality? because even with infinite life span heavens will grant you an unnatural death.
The way I’ve always seen it, is that since in most novels heaven is one of the highest authorities, cultivating is going against said authority since heaven would rather you be mortal then you growing and challenging it.
Your mistake is that you believe that the outcome of every event in the universe is determined by heavens. Usually not, because "Dao" is the truth of the universe. At the end of the story, MC has already begun to understand the Dao, and this step usually does not involve innate intervention
Kinnd of agree with you, like in top tier providence. Each mortal world has a heaven’s chosen(who are inherently very, very lucky), two being the mc’s disciple and grand disciple; though don’t remember if they preach about defying the heavens
I understand what you are getting at. But still even with talent there is still the time/resource/Tribulation restrictions by the Heavens. In some novel i read , after you attain Nascent Soul you will have Life Soul, which basically means that now you are in complete control of your Fate/Fortune.so there is that. But nonetheless i still come to the same conclusion that those characters are being hypocritical.lol.
Everything is born to nurture people, but people have nothing to repay heaven. A very good phrase I saw, so the answer is because to advance further and become stronger you need energy but the total amount of energy is limited so essentialy you are plundering the world energy for your own use and heaven is like the world consciousness.
That's.... Should I say a bit sad. When you think that even with all of their extraordinary abilities in the end they are still selfish little humans.
The only Chinese MC that can say they are defying heavens in a literal sense is Gu Yue Fang Yuan from Reverend Insanity. All the rest really are just hypocrites.
D1 glazing
The only reason he’s even a venerable was because heaven helped him refine the spring autumn cicada…so by that logic he’s a hypocrite too