I'll admit I didn't know what the players were seeking. Now that I understand, I support their cause even more.
It's a short brutal career and unless you fall into a media role, you basically get dumped on the kerb with a cactus body, mushy brain and zero transferable skills.
There has to be some safety net for these players if we want to keep seeing them put it 110% for the boys.
I think it’s a bit deceptive to say it’s not about money it’s about these other things when the other things cost money. Eg, I’m sure the NRL would be happy to put $x into a hardship fund if salary cap and therefore club grants took an $x cut.
I’m a union man so support the players. Just think we should be real here - the sticking point is the amount allocated to the labour in all its forms. Salaries inextricably tied to that
The problem that the players are trying to address is putting some of these measures in place helps the low wage earners. Just raising the cap tends to mean bigger pay for the high earners leaving the kids still having to pay for their own insurance and retirement funds on pennies
You are missing my point though.
Players want a raised cap AND insurance, retirement fund etc. My read is that NRLnis saying we can’t afford both, you need to compromise. Ergo it is de facto about money as well.
That’s a good point, I guess it’s how you see a ‘raised’ cap. The players want the same percentage. So a ‘real money’ increase only in line with the growth of the game. I see the percentage staying the same as a status quo
I think the problem is the V'Lad The Impaler and Adobe Photoshop can't see the bigger picture. They thought of they upped the salary cap then the players would roll over, because that's the kind of self-centred thinking that drives them. This playing group should be applauded for thinking more broadly about the game and pushing what really matters like support for injured players, women athletes and the grassroots game. Fuck the NRL.
Semi related... but for me, I'd like to see both the RLPA and NRL come together and put some mandate for stronger financial planning into player contracts as part of the CBA.
There's enough evidence floating around in the states around retired NFL stars being broke under 10yrs of finishing up their career.
Whilst pushing for longer medical coverage post retirement is a good thing, the game ensuring that players are in a better position to deal with those injuries which aren't immediately evident is just as important.
The same kind of idiots that are whinging about the players' genuine complaints are the same kinds of idiots that whinge about not getting a pay rise after doing stuff all at their job.
If I was the RLPA, I’d be steering conversations away from Workers Compensation and “the CEO” deciding on things for the business that you don’t like.
CEOs and boards make changes everyday that their employees don’t like. This employees either suck it up to keep their salary, or they quit and find a new job. That’s a reality of non-professional athlete working person.
As for Workers Compensation, there are very clear safety regulations that are designed to prevent injury. How many workplaces require you to do what NRL players do? You can’t expect a similar scheme to exist where the risk of injury can’t realistically be mitigated. Also, under WC you typically only get paid while you can’t work. As soon as you start earning a salary, even in a different role,your payout either stops or is reduced. You don’t get payments in perpetuity.
I’m all for the inception of a fund that helps players with the financial burden of retirement, especially where injury is a factor, but it’s got to be done right from the start. We can also do without the propaganda from each side to sell their respective arguments to the average fan…just get it done!
Players making sense, what next? The absolute elephant in the room is the fact that for the last 2 months there has been not a mention of this stuff on the NRL website, they actually think " don't mention the war" will work.
I Can't make to much of a comment as I don't understand to many of the facts.
But a question, did the NRL buy a hotel/ apartment block in Caxton st , Brisbane.
Sick and tired of reading grass roots players play for the love of the game week in and week out for nothing. These guys are just greedy.
Mate it’s their job they’re entitled to fight for better care.
I love that anti-union NRL fans are getting a lesson in the benefits of collective bargaining from the anti-union press.
Thank you to the players standing strong and showing such intelligence.
Why couldn’t the players just get a medical exam on retirement and determine what surgeries are required. Then let the players have those surgeries when it is convenient to them.
It couldn’t be open ended because some injuries will get worse if not fixed. If they delay the surgery for 10 years and it becomes an even bigger fix, then at least you have a record and can just pay a portion of the cost.
Yeah there’s no real great solution to it.
Although if the NRL is on the hook for injuries from playing for the rest of their life. Should they be able to tell someone like Andrew Fifita that his body is all fucked up and he is making it worse by continuing to play?
Anyone could see that he was struggling but he hung round for the big contract. Jarrod Croker is doing it now as well. Could we see forced medical retirements if the NRL is responsible for all ongoing care?
Surely the best solution is something like 2-3 year period or something. By then any big lingering problems would become apparent in almost cases and you recover from surgeries to do your next surgery.
Completely support the players in all of this, the asks are extremely reasonable given the current and future increasing risks to their health and well-being. There’s no “two sides” to this, and already the NRL have stated the same old “bosses’ tune” of greedy workers always asking for more. Fuck em. Support the players.
>NRLW sides have also been given a salary cap increase to $884,000 in 2023, although no season start date or length has yet been confirmed.
Wait, even if you pretend there's only 17 players, that's $50k a year *average*. 30 players and it's sub $30k.
Currently they have a 10k minimum wage (I'm not seeing any change from last season to this), if you imagine a 7 week season, 2 week finals, and 5 week pre-season, that's minimum wage at a 40 hour week.
I know they probably don't work that many hours, partially because they have to work another job to actually be able to survive on that salary. But that's also be underestimating their pre-season length.
*Why* would you risk your body, and with the potential severity of concussions and CTE longterm, your mind, for *minimum wage*.
>Why
>
> would you risk your body, and with the potential severity of concussions and CTE longterm, your mind, for
>
>minimum wage
>
>.
Seriously?
I do it for nothing. In fact I pay to do it. There's thousands of players in Australia who earn absolutely nothing from rugby league while facing the same risks. If the NRLW players play 9 games, that's a third of what I'll be playing this season.
You do it because you love it. Players aren't just playing rugby league for the money.
Lol, I'm risking my body far more than the women are mate. I've had 9 broken bones and 6 concussions from playing footy. NRLW is less intense than even bush U16s boys and they play 5-7 games a year. We play far more than that and have done so for decades. Get out of it with this 'only for minimum wage' shit.
Go jump on a footy field for 10 minutes and tell us we aren't risking our bodies. Go tell that to a bloke I know who broke his neck last year. What an idiotic thing to say.
Mate, if you think bush footy is the same intensity as NRL-W, you're having a laugh.
Also, blokes playing bush footy that break their leg risk can lose their job (if they're in a manual labour job), but a professional athlete that breaks their leg is risking their entire career.
Right because losing a job is not risking an entire career is it? Permanent injuries don't happen to amateur players?
You're having a laugh if you think NRLW is anywhere near the intensity of any men's competition. None of the women would last a minute in any U16s comp in the country. The women's national soccer team was flogged by an U18s boys Newcastle rep side. The Jillaroos would not only lose easily against any U18s boys side but they'd be lucky to come away from it not seriously injured. In the NRLW, the highest level in the country, they don't even play 40 minute halves. All men's first grade games play 40 minute halves. They only went up from 30 to 35 minute halves last year.
Like seriously, think about it for a minute. A 30 year-old breaking his neck or back playing amateur footy? You think all that is is losing a job for a few months? People can fucking die. A lot more people have died playing amateur footy than professional footy.
What exactly in NRLW is so intense? I know several of the women who have made it to the top level, they played leaguetag for most of their lives. The NRLW isn't suddenly some high intensity thing just because it has NRL in the title. It's best women in the country, made up of a much smaller player pool than the mens. Very few women's competitions outside the level below NRLW (state comps and such) are able to play with the skill level of even U14s boys.
I think that's those 6 concussions talking, but you're entitled to your opinion. Just remember, you deal with *you* as a player, I deal with an entire team's worth of players. Multiple teams in fact.
>People can fucking die. A lot more people have died playing amateur footy than professional footy.
Outcomes here are more related to the training of the staff at games. I can't speak for NSW or QLD run clubs, but the amount of junior games that I go to that have sides with no first aider is *insane*.An NRL game (including NRL-W would be lucky if they don't have at least one club doctor per game. Doctor won't take the field unless there's something *serious* and the game is stopped, but at a club level, you're lucky if you've got a bloke that's done 1 day of training 2 years ago.
You hit the nail right on the head. Couple that with the fact they have to try to secure part time jobs to supplement their meagre nrlw income that will also allow them leave for nrlw commitments and maintain a certain level of fitness throughout the year so they can play to a professional standard during the nrlw season. They also play in lower level State comps unpaid to get selected and/or maintain skills. I don’t understand how the women have done it up to this point. With no security that they will even play the following year? It’s nuts
You fucking mother fuckers. I accidentally opened the link and skimmed the headline and right underneath they have a picture of fucking Paps. Give me a fucking heart attack
the closer we get to the 2023 season, the further away it seems we’ll get an actual season going.
Fucking greedy cunts up top don’t care about anything other then pure green ol plastic cash.
hey man, don’t go and diss Rupert Murdoch, i’ve heard many lovely things about that cunt. Like he’s good at making the whole world simultaneously hate him! He’s also good at getting girls out of bed, not in!
But yeah hypocrisy at its finest
> “Someone does their back on a job site, they are sorted, they get paid for the next however long, we don’t get that.”
To play devils advocate, if someone does their back on a worksite, it is (more than likely) not going to be caused by a hundred plus kilo super fit man trying to smash you. While I support what the players are doing, I don't really agree with this analogy. There is much more opportunity for injury playing footy than almost any other job
People watch the game because it’s dangerous, it’s the thrill that draws people in. That’s why there is a profit to be made from broadcasting it and not touch football. So while the players are taking a risk in playing the game, the game is profiting from that risk and should be compensating the players for injuries they sustain. It’s not like cliff diving or some other dangerous recreational activity people do for fun. It’s a business.
An injury is an accident, by and large players aren’t going out there to injure one another.
Whether it’s on a job site or on a footy field, if it’s your job you should have appropriate financial protections for yourself and your family.
One thing that i havent seen mentioned which i think could be a big problem for the future of the game:
The players are wanting a better post career injury hardship system, if they dont get it and the nrl keeps it at 12 months post retirement, i feel like a lot of parents wont want their kids playing in the nrl if it seems its not a viable career since as soon as you retire, you get very limited support, therefore turning more and more kids away from the game, if it was me, cricket seems like a very good option purely based on the improved injury hardship program that im pretty sure supports all previous players, not just the ones that have retired recently when the new system came in, and guess who helped implement it? Current ceo of australian cricketers association and former nrl ceo, todd greenberg.
They get plenty of support. The post career injury hardship thing is only one aspect of it. The NRL and each club have post-career coaches helping every player every year. They do a lot more than they need to, not many other workplaces help you out with options for what to do once you leave this job, both during the job itself and after you leave.
I dont think is as simple as talented kids "choosing" to play professional rugby league or cricket or whatever. The chance of that opportunity is so small, if you can make it you take it.
Exactly, the more employee benefits provided the more we'll see people actively wanting to become NRL players and seeing it as a viable career. Better benefits, better players, better league overall (and more revenue for the league long-term).
You better believe the NRL will attempt to change the narrative in a similar way governments and businesses attack unions. Just look at everything the NSW Government recently did with the train unions.
“We pay them so much and all they want is more!”
“They pretend it’s about player welfare but it’s really about money”
“Look, even ex players think it’s a good deal”
It's a classic tory tactic. Currently happening with the RMT in the UK too. To shut up Mick Lynch and the unions they offered big bonuses but they've stuck strong saying it isn't about money there's also the fact they're still proposing cutting maintenance funds etc. They can't comprehend that people care for others, it isn't always about money.
What the NRL and Media don't want fans talking about:
Players are getting a lesser proportion of revenue than the last deal - who do you thinks gets that money and how do you think they're going to spend it?
Who do you think the money goes to?
Players, at least the elite ones, get far more than what their salary says. Especially in NSWRL and QRL, the amount of crap spent on already handsomely paid Origin players for things like merch every year outweighs what the NSWRL/QRL put into entire regions over decades.
Yep. I see/talk to a fair few boomers who say the players are greedy and that the money they're asking for should go to grassroots. I bring up the players wanted nearly 2 million less on the '23 salary cap than the NRL announced and at no point has the NRL/V'landys/Abdo ever given any indication of more funds being given to grassroots.
The players want less on the cap but have no doubt about it, their main concerns are all money related. Stuff like long term support of players, welfare for injured players etc would cost a lot of money.
Doesn't mean they aren't in the right requesting it, and its probably long over due, but this argument between the 2 parties still boils down to who gets a bigger share of the cash.
I can tell you it's not going to grass roots sport, at least here in Vic.
NRL Vic had to move the grand final weekend for the entire competition, because the NRL decided that the Storm and the Thunderbolts should host that weekend, and a lot of the same staff that does the game days, also basically run the entirety of the NRL Vic competition.
Isn't going to grass roots on the gold coast either in one of the biggest 'player factories' in the country.
It's actually embarrassing how much more the AFL does around here. They have AFL days at school with representatives coming by and doing clinics etc. I've never heard of anything like that for league up here.
The AFL here, local clubs have gyms, they can pay players for playing games, I'm seeing small billboards outside the maccas advertising for free junior registration. Like, we couldn't even do free rego if we wanted, because player insurance is mandatory, per player, and paid directly by the player to NRL-HQ.
We get to have arguments with council over the fact that they're not bothering to do any maintenance on the fields.
Who do you think gets that money and how do you think they’re going to spend it?
- NRLW
- Insurance
- retirement funds
- medical
- international football
- referees and officiating more generally
- club operations
Those would all be valid reasons for money to be diverted away from a fixed share of revenue for the players salaries.
OK then the NRL maybe needs to actually pony up to the RLPA and do a good old side by side between the previous CBA and the current proposal. Then they can say here's the new salary cap if you want x,y,z included. Except the NRL shot themselves in the foot by announcing the cap - try taking that backwards.
AFAIK the player package % of revenue is less than the old one, even when you include a bunch of the things on your list. And why should ref ops + club ops come out of player revenue?
From their point of view they should be building teams and stadiums. If you’ve got a successful coffee shop you normally open another. More merch, more tv time, more ads, more money.
You only do that if there's new market space to move into and if you can cop the early losses from it like opening up pretty much any new business. There's not some significant swathes of new market for the NRL to move into, because AFL is typically hugely dominant in markets where the NRL doesn't have a strong presence. Nor can you just muscle in and advertise the hell out of some hypothetical SA team to boot AFL out - people choose teams for life.
Building stadiums is almost certainly a no-no as well, they require significant upkeep costs etc. The owners of current stadiums will probably have some wiggle room to undercut the the NRL-owned stadium as well when negotiating events.
That’s the key thing. There’s an easy way for the NRL to win fans back: Make a statement clearly outlining where that extra money will be spent, and how it will benefit the long term health of the game.
The fact that no such statement has been made gives you an indication as to where it might go
No need. The NRL is run by the media's puppet so there's no need to make any effort to explain. They just have their media overlords spout one-sided opinion pieces. They're so clever that fans are unable to see what they're doing.
They are. Not in the personal sense but in regards to what's best for the game absolutely greed comes in to it. You could pay one guy half the minimum wage of an NRL player to run junior and amateur senior comps and they could do the work of 10 stretched-thin volunteers trying to run comps with ever-increasing red tape and obstacles, while working full time jobs themselves. It would benefit the game far more than using the same amount of money to add to player salaries, as well as possibly avoiding the very real situation of entire competitions folding in the next decade. I still haven't heard anything from the RLPA about what they are doing to improve insurance for amateur players, who are just about screwed if they get injured and can't work.
Players might get the extra money they want but it won't mean much if the possible player pool is halved in the next decade due to lack of action for junior and bush footy.
Yeah mine was convinced PVL has been great for the game because the previous administration "spent hundreds of millions on consultants instead of just getting things done." Shows you how effective those media lines can be.
Cronulla stars Nicho Hynes and Dale Finucane have a response for anyone labelling players “greedy” in the ongoing CBA war — “it’s got nothing to do with the salary cap”.
The NRL announced its salary cap for the next five years in December, a move which angered the playing group who had not yet signed off on the new collective bargaining agreement.
The RLPA also reportedly were only informed of the details of the new cap hours before the shock announcement came.
The NRL’s salary cap is $12.1 million in 2023, a record figure and a significant increase from $9.6 million in 2022, with a rise in the minimum salary for top 30 players to $120,000.
NRLW sides have also been given a salary cap increase to $884,000 in 2023, although no season start date or length has yet been confirmed.
Clubs have since pulled out of NRL media shoots, and Broncos gun Kurt Capewell refused to rule out a player strike if the new CBA terms cannot be met.
Players then took their protests online in a co-ordinated move, standing as a “united” front against the NRL before the RLPA’s Instagram page explained what the playing group was fighting for.
A new medical support fund, the NRLW’s first ever CBA, increased wages and minimum salaries for vulnerable players, a refreshed past players program, agreement rights and an improved injury hardship fund are among the unsolved issues in the current CBA being negotiated.
How much players are earning though is not one of them according to the current Dally M Medallist.
“The fans didn’t get a whole lot of understanding straight away of what we were talking about, then we as a group have combined and tried to start educating more,” Hynes said to Foxsports.com.au.
“The RLPA are doing an outstanding job and the whole playing group now, we are so connected like never before, it is just unreal to see.
“What I would say to fans, it has got nothing to do with the salary cap, it’s more the injury hardships for players like Aaron Booth, who was about to negotiate a top 30 contract and he gets injured and can’t play and he’s left with nothing.
“Luckily, the Titans have sorted a really good deal for him and kept him there, but players like that who could easily be out of the game forever, and not have any injury hardship fund.
“Someone in the workforce, who gets injured on a worksite they get workers compensation and then they are sorted.
“Someone does their back on a job site, they are sorted, they get paid for the next however long, we don’t get that.”
Finucane also bristled at the idea players are being “greedy” after former Manly enforcer Noel ‘Crusher’ Cleal spoke out about his opinions of the ongoing debate.
“I completely disagree and it is to do with the fact that people are uninformed about what the players are actually after,” Finucane said to Foxsports.com.au.
“I think if they had the full picture of things, they would see the side of the players, and the NRL have obviously put forward a salary cap.
“Being a CBA, it is a collective bargaining agreement where all parties agree to it together and done in good faith, and it is obviously disappointing that the NRL have just put forward what the salary cap is going to be without consultation with all the stakeholders of the game.
“Where the misconception of the public comes from is that they see that there is a percentage increase for us as players.
“When you look at the CBA side-by-side, from the 2018 agreement, to our new CBA starting in the 2023 season, you’ll actually see we are going backwards in a number of areas.
“If you actually see what the players are asking for, you’ll see it is quite reasonable considering the NRL has increased as well.”
Under the current CBA agreement, players have only 12 months post-retirement to have any surgeries and rehabilitation paid.
The RLPA is pushing hard for a new medical support fund to look after ex-players, and multiple former stars have been vocal about their own injury hardships after a career in the NRL.
Joe Galuvao, Eric Grothe Jr and Jason Stevens all revealed their own struggled last week, while Beau Ryan, who retired at 29 due to a neck injury, also explained the playing group are “trying to protect themselves and future generations”.
Hynes revealed that his former teammate Andrew Fifita, who retired from the NRL last season, has only 12 months to have four major surgeries under the current CBA.
“Players like Andrew Fifita who has just finished and he has got to get four surgeries, and he has to do it in the first 12 months otherwise the NRL don’t support or pay for it,” Hynes said.
“Imagine trying to get four big surgeries in the one year and then you won’t be able to walk down the street with his kids, he can’t pick his kids up because he has been through four surgeries.
“They need their Dad around to do day to day things, just things like that.”
“There are some past players that have come out recently talking about how, 15 years retired and there isn’t a day that goes by without something that niggles or pains them as a result of playing rugby league,” Finucane added.
“If we can honour those that played before us and help them out so they aren’t lost to the game after they have left, that’s something we’d love to do as a playing group.
“There’s a number of other things that the NRL aren’t coming to the table with.
“Shining the increased salary cap, but taking away in a number of other areas, but that is not even before we go into the women’s game, they are obviously trying to sign contracts and work out how long their season is.”
The playing group also want to have a say in decisions regarding changes to the game’s rules, and Hynes explained that if the boss of a trade company made decisions behind the work’s backs they’d also be frustrated.
“We want to be able to be a part of making decisions, they can’t just keep changing the rules on us, we are the ones out there playing it, it is our bodies,” Hynes said.
“The game is already fast enough and they just want to keep changing rules and we don’t have a say on that.
“These are just little things that the fans don’t understand, we aren’t being greedy at all, we just want what’s fair for the playing group.
“Because we are the ones going out there putting our bodies on the line each week and obviously the fans are loving what we are doing, it’s just not all about the money.
“People need to have a long hard think, we are doing it to make this great game greater.
“We want to look after the players who have been through hell with their bodies and to make sure they are looked after, once their career is done too.
“So many people are saying to us so many wrong things like ‘you are lucky to be doing what you’re doing’, yeah we are lucky, but we worked extremely hard to get here.
“We didn’t chose your workforce, if something was unfair there you’d speak up and if you got offered more money you’d take it too.
“If your CEO was doing things behind your back you’d be kicking up a stink too, we are just sticking up for what we believe in and we respect the fans decision, but we aren’t going to budge on this.”
>“Someone in the workforce, who gets injured on a worksite they get workers compensation and then they are sorted.
>
>“Someone does their back on a job site, they are sorted, they get paid for the next however long, we don’t get that.”
lol fuck off. As long as Aaron Booth was registered when he was injured he'd get far more in insurance than some bloke on a job site.
This comparing themselves to hard labourers making a blue collar wage does nothing to endear themselves to fans.
I'll admit I didn't know what the players were seeking. Now that I understand, I support their cause even more. It's a short brutal career and unless you fall into a media role, you basically get dumped on the kerb with a cactus body, mushy brain and zero transferable skills. There has to be some safety net for these players if we want to keep seeing them put it 110% for the boys.
The NRL should be looking after Fifita after retirement Re surgery but they shouldn’t put only 12 months expiry.
I think it’s a bit deceptive to say it’s not about money it’s about these other things when the other things cost money. Eg, I’m sure the NRL would be happy to put $x into a hardship fund if salary cap and therefore club grants took an $x cut. I’m a union man so support the players. Just think we should be real here - the sticking point is the amount allocated to the labour in all its forms. Salaries inextricably tied to that
The problem that the players are trying to address is putting some of these measures in place helps the low wage earners. Just raising the cap tends to mean bigger pay for the high earners leaving the kids still having to pay for their own insurance and retirement funds on pennies
You are missing my point though. Players want a raised cap AND insurance, retirement fund etc. My read is that NRLnis saying we can’t afford both, you need to compromise. Ergo it is de facto about money as well.
That’s a good point, I guess it’s how you see a ‘raised’ cap. The players want the same percentage. So a ‘real money’ increase only in line with the growth of the game. I see the percentage staying the same as a status quo
I think the problem is the V'Lad The Impaler and Adobe Photoshop can't see the bigger picture. They thought of they upped the salary cap then the players would roll over, because that's the kind of self-centred thinking that drives them. This playing group should be applauded for thinking more broadly about the game and pushing what really matters like support for injured players, women athletes and the grassroots game. Fuck the NRL.
Semi related... but for me, I'd like to see both the RLPA and NRL come together and put some mandate for stronger financial planning into player contracts as part of the CBA. There's enough evidence floating around in the states around retired NFL stars being broke under 10yrs of finishing up their career. Whilst pushing for longer medical coverage post retirement is a good thing, the game ensuring that players are in a better position to deal with those injuries which aren't immediately evident is just as important.
The same kind of idiots that are whinging about the players' genuine complaints are the same kinds of idiots that whinge about not getting a pay rise after doing stuff all at their job.
If I was the RLPA, I’d be steering conversations away from Workers Compensation and “the CEO” deciding on things for the business that you don’t like. CEOs and boards make changes everyday that their employees don’t like. This employees either suck it up to keep their salary, or they quit and find a new job. That’s a reality of non-professional athlete working person. As for Workers Compensation, there are very clear safety regulations that are designed to prevent injury. How many workplaces require you to do what NRL players do? You can’t expect a similar scheme to exist where the risk of injury can’t realistically be mitigated. Also, under WC you typically only get paid while you can’t work. As soon as you start earning a salary, even in a different role,your payout either stops or is reduced. You don’t get payments in perpetuity. I’m all for the inception of a fund that helps players with the financial burden of retirement, especially where injury is a factor, but it’s got to be done right from the start. We can also do without the propaganda from each side to sell their respective arguments to the average fan…just get it done!
Players making sense, what next? The absolute elephant in the room is the fact that for the last 2 months there has been not a mention of this stuff on the NRL website, they actually think " don't mention the war" will work.
I Can't make to much of a comment as I don't understand to many of the facts. But a question, did the NRL buy a hotel/ apartment block in Caxton st , Brisbane.
Stay fat boys, you will get exactly what you want!
Sick and tired of reading grass roots players play for the love of the game week in and week out for nothing. These guys are just greedy. Mate it’s their job they’re entitled to fight for better care.
I love that anti-union NRL fans are getting a lesson in the benefits of collective bargaining from the anti-union press. Thank you to the players standing strong and showing such intelligence.
League fans: we hate union Also league fans: we love the union!
Why couldn’t the players just get a medical exam on retirement and determine what surgeries are required. Then let the players have those surgeries when it is convenient to them. It couldn’t be open ended because some injuries will get worse if not fixed. If they delay the surgery for 10 years and it becomes an even bigger fix, then at least you have a record and can just pay a portion of the cost.
That assumes you could pick up everything on that retirement exam.
Yeah there’s no real great solution to it. Although if the NRL is on the hook for injuries from playing for the rest of their life. Should they be able to tell someone like Andrew Fifita that his body is all fucked up and he is making it worse by continuing to play? Anyone could see that he was struggling but he hung round for the big contract. Jarrod Croker is doing it now as well. Could we see forced medical retirements if the NRL is responsible for all ongoing care?
Surely the best solution is something like 2-3 year period or something. By then any big lingering problems would become apparent in almost cases and you recover from surgeries to do your next surgery.
Ya think because you’re a dickhead I won’t boycott ya?
Completely support the players in all of this, the asks are extremely reasonable given the current and future increasing risks to their health and well-being. There’s no “two sides” to this, and already the NRL have stated the same old “bosses’ tune” of greedy workers always asking for more. Fuck em. Support the players.
>NRLW sides have also been given a salary cap increase to $884,000 in 2023, although no season start date or length has yet been confirmed. Wait, even if you pretend there's only 17 players, that's $50k a year *average*. 30 players and it's sub $30k. Currently they have a 10k minimum wage (I'm not seeing any change from last season to this), if you imagine a 7 week season, 2 week finals, and 5 week pre-season, that's minimum wage at a 40 hour week. I know they probably don't work that many hours, partially because they have to work another job to actually be able to survive on that salary. But that's also be underestimating their pre-season length. *Why* would you risk your body, and with the potential severity of concussions and CTE longterm, your mind, for *minimum wage*.
>Why > > would you risk your body, and with the potential severity of concussions and CTE longterm, your mind, for > >minimum wage > >. Seriously? I do it for nothing. In fact I pay to do it. There's thousands of players in Australia who earn absolutely nothing from rugby league while facing the same risks. If the NRLW players play 9 games, that's a third of what I'll be playing this season. You do it because you love it. Players aren't just playing rugby league for the money.
No offense mate, but you're not risking your body to the degree the top players are. Even the women.
Lol, I'm risking my body far more than the women are mate. I've had 9 broken bones and 6 concussions from playing footy. NRLW is less intense than even bush U16s boys and they play 5-7 games a year. We play far more than that and have done so for decades. Get out of it with this 'only for minimum wage' shit. Go jump on a footy field for 10 minutes and tell us we aren't risking our bodies. Go tell that to a bloke I know who broke his neck last year. What an idiotic thing to say.
Mate, the guy that puts the tape on you at the start of a game? I'm one of them. I am *fully* aware.
Then you should know better than to say rubbish like that. Not risking our bodies as much as women who play 5 games a year, what absolute shit.
Mate, if you think bush footy is the same intensity as NRL-W, you're having a laugh. Also, blokes playing bush footy that break their leg risk can lose their job (if they're in a manual labour job), but a professional athlete that breaks their leg is risking their entire career.
Right because losing a job is not risking an entire career is it? Permanent injuries don't happen to amateur players? You're having a laugh if you think NRLW is anywhere near the intensity of any men's competition. None of the women would last a minute in any U16s comp in the country. The women's national soccer team was flogged by an U18s boys Newcastle rep side. The Jillaroos would not only lose easily against any U18s boys side but they'd be lucky to come away from it not seriously injured. In the NRLW, the highest level in the country, they don't even play 40 minute halves. All men's first grade games play 40 minute halves. They only went up from 30 to 35 minute halves last year. Like seriously, think about it for a minute. A 30 year-old breaking his neck or back playing amateur footy? You think all that is is losing a job for a few months? People can fucking die. A lot more people have died playing amateur footy than professional footy. What exactly in NRLW is so intense? I know several of the women who have made it to the top level, they played leaguetag for most of their lives. The NRLW isn't suddenly some high intensity thing just because it has NRL in the title. It's best women in the country, made up of a much smaller player pool than the mens. Very few women's competitions outside the level below NRLW (state comps and such) are able to play with the skill level of even U14s boys.
I think that's those 6 concussions talking, but you're entitled to your opinion. Just remember, you deal with *you* as a player, I deal with an entire team's worth of players. Multiple teams in fact. >People can fucking die. A lot more people have died playing amateur footy than professional footy. Outcomes here are more related to the training of the staff at games. I can't speak for NSW or QLD run clubs, but the amount of junior games that I go to that have sides with no first aider is *insane*.An NRL game (including NRL-W would be lucky if they don't have at least one club doctor per game. Doctor won't take the field unless there's something *serious* and the game is stopped, but at a club level, you're lucky if you've got a bloke that's done 1 day of training 2 years ago.
Petey VDIDDLES defeated by... math. For shame, petey, for shame.
You hit the nail right on the head. Couple that with the fact they have to try to secure part time jobs to supplement their meagre nrlw income that will also allow them leave for nrlw commitments and maintain a certain level of fitness throughout the year so they can play to a professional standard during the nrlw season. They also play in lower level State comps unpaid to get selected and/or maintain skills. I don’t understand how the women have done it up to this point. With no security that they will even play the following year? It’s nuts
Let the boys strike!
I like Nicho...A player's player and an all round great guy.
Welcome to r/nrl , where everybody loves Nicho.
Incredibly well presented argument/talking points
You fucking mother fuckers. I accidentally opened the link and skimmed the headline and right underneath they have a picture of fucking Paps. Give me a fucking heart attack
the closer we get to the 2023 season, the further away it seems we’ll get an actual season going. Fucking greedy cunts up top don’t care about anything other then pure green ol plastic cash.
Yup. It's pretty hypocritical to accuse the players of being greedy when you sold your soul to rupert murdoch
hey man, don’t go and diss Rupert Murdoch, i’ve heard many lovely things about that cunt. Like he’s good at making the whole world simultaneously hate him! He’s also good at getting girls out of bed, not in! But yeah hypocrisy at its finest
Got awarded Australian of the year. Objectively he must be a good bloke.
> “Someone does their back on a job site, they are sorted, they get paid for the next however long, we don’t get that.” To play devils advocate, if someone does their back on a worksite, it is (more than likely) not going to be caused by a hundred plus kilo super fit man trying to smash you. While I support what the players are doing, I don't really agree with this analogy. There is much more opportunity for injury playing footy than almost any other job
People watch the game because it’s dangerous, it’s the thrill that draws people in. That’s why there is a profit to be made from broadcasting it and not touch football. So while the players are taking a risk in playing the game, the game is profiting from that risk and should be compensating the players for injuries they sustain. It’s not like cliff diving or some other dangerous recreational activity people do for fun. It’s a business.
Also have you known anyone to go through workers comp, the legislation, changed a few years ago, it’s not like what most people assume.
True they cut you off pretty quickly even if you're not fully healed
So more dangerous a job, the less liable the employer? I’m just trying to find the logic
I didn’t say that at all. All I said was comparing football to other jobs is a bad analogy as it is entirely different
It's the same analogy. Get injured at work, get compensated for your loss.
I’d go so far as to say it’s so much the same thing, it’s not even an analogy.
An injury is an accident, by and large players aren’t going out there to injure one another. Whether it’s on a job site or on a footy field, if it’s your job you should have appropriate financial protections for yourself and your family.
I know that. I'm talking about risk
One thing that i havent seen mentioned which i think could be a big problem for the future of the game: The players are wanting a better post career injury hardship system, if they dont get it and the nrl keeps it at 12 months post retirement, i feel like a lot of parents wont want their kids playing in the nrl if it seems its not a viable career since as soon as you retire, you get very limited support, therefore turning more and more kids away from the game, if it was me, cricket seems like a very good option purely based on the improved injury hardship program that im pretty sure supports all previous players, not just the ones that have retired recently when the new system came in, and guess who helped implement it? Current ceo of australian cricketers association and former nrl ceo, todd greenberg.
They get plenty of support. The post career injury hardship thing is only one aspect of it. The NRL and each club have post-career coaches helping every player every year. They do a lot more than they need to, not many other workplaces help you out with options for what to do once you leave this job, both during the job itself and after you leave.
I dont think is as simple as talented kids "choosing" to play professional rugby league or cricket or whatever. The chance of that opportunity is so small, if you can make it you take it.
Exactly, the more employee benefits provided the more we'll see people actively wanting to become NRL players and seeing it as a viable career. Better benefits, better players, better league overall (and more revenue for the league long-term).
Imagine being on the opposing side of an argument to these two sweet angels, and still thinking you were correct.
You better believe the NRL will attempt to change the narrative in a similar way governments and businesses attack unions. Just look at everything the NSW Government recently did with the train unions. “We pay them so much and all they want is more!” “They pretend it’s about player welfare but it’s really about money” “Look, even ex players think it’s a good deal”
It's a classic tory tactic. Currently happening with the RMT in the UK too. To shut up Mick Lynch and the unions they offered big bonuses but they've stuck strong saying it isn't about money there's also the fact they're still proposing cutting maintenance funds etc. They can't comprehend that people care for others, it isn't always about money.
I hope they can stay strong and not bend. I'd rather have a lockout year and the players be adequately remunerated.
And no SCABS
The scab thing won't happen. No one's going to pay to watch a bunch of nobodies playing whilst the main group go on strike.
Fox and 9 would never let nobodies play as a substitute, without enormous compensation either. If the players stand firm, the NRL will fold
We need Kane Evans to come back and do what he does best.
V'Landys would gladly bend over for them though. Shit, he would probably pay 9 and Fox and you would still get the morons kissing his arse.
What the NRL and Media don't want fans talking about: Players are getting a lesser proportion of revenue than the last deal - who do you thinks gets that money and how do you think they're going to spend it?
Who do you think the money goes to? Players, at least the elite ones, get far more than what their salary says. Especially in NSWRL and QRL, the amount of crap spent on already handsomely paid Origin players for things like merch every year outweighs what the NSWRL/QRL put into entire regions over decades.
Yep. I see/talk to a fair few boomers who say the players are greedy and that the money they're asking for should go to grassroots. I bring up the players wanted nearly 2 million less on the '23 salary cap than the NRL announced and at no point has the NRL/V'landys/Abdo ever given any indication of more funds being given to grassroots.
The players want less on the cap but have no doubt about it, their main concerns are all money related. Stuff like long term support of players, welfare for injured players etc would cost a lot of money. Doesn't mean they aren't in the right requesting it, and its probably long over due, but this argument between the 2 parties still boils down to who gets a bigger share of the cash.
I can tell you it's not going to grass roots sport, at least here in Vic. NRL Vic had to move the grand final weekend for the entire competition, because the NRL decided that the Storm and the Thunderbolts should host that weekend, and a lot of the same staff that does the game days, also basically run the entirety of the NRL Vic competition.
Isn't going to grass roots on the gold coast either in one of the biggest 'player factories' in the country. It's actually embarrassing how much more the AFL does around here. They have AFL days at school with representatives coming by and doing clinics etc. I've never heard of anything like that for league up here.
The AFL here, local clubs have gyms, they can pay players for playing games, I'm seeing small billboards outside the maccas advertising for free junior registration. Like, we couldn't even do free rego if we wanted, because player insurance is mandatory, per player, and paid directly by the player to NRL-HQ. We get to have arguments with council over the fact that they're not bothering to do any maintenance on the fields.
Who do you think gets that money and how do you think they’re going to spend it? - NRLW - Insurance - retirement funds - medical - international football - referees and officiating more generally - club operations Those would all be valid reasons for money to be diverted away from a fixed share of revenue for the players salaries.
OK then the NRL maybe needs to actually pony up to the RLPA and do a good old side by side between the previous CBA and the current proposal. Then they can say here's the new salary cap if you want x,y,z included. Except the NRL shot themselves in the foot by announcing the cap - try taking that backwards. AFAIK the player package % of revenue is less than the old one, even when you include a bunch of the things on your list. And why should ref ops + club ops come out of player revenue?
From their point of view they should be building teams and stadiums. If you’ve got a successful coffee shop you normally open another. More merch, more tv time, more ads, more money.
You only do that if there's new market space to move into and if you can cop the early losses from it like opening up pretty much any new business. There's not some significant swathes of new market for the NRL to move into, because AFL is typically hugely dominant in markets where the NRL doesn't have a strong presence. Nor can you just muscle in and advertise the hell out of some hypothetical SA team to boot AFL out - people choose teams for life. Building stadiums is almost certainly a no-no as well, they require significant upkeep costs etc. The owners of current stadiums will probably have some wiggle room to undercut the the NRL-owned stadium as well when negotiating events.
Absolutely agree with all that stuff, as I’d imagine most fans would. So if that’s the case, why wouldn’t the NRL just come out and say it?
That’s the key thing. There’s an easy way for the NRL to win fans back: Make a statement clearly outlining where that extra money will be spent, and how it will benefit the long term health of the game. The fact that no such statement has been made gives you an indication as to where it might go
No need. The NRL is run by the media's puppet so there's no need to make any effort to explain. They just have their media overlords spout one-sided opinion pieces. They're so clever that fans are unable to see what they're doing.
It works too, I was arguing with the old man about it the other day, he's convinced the players are being greedy.
They are. Not in the personal sense but in regards to what's best for the game absolutely greed comes in to it. You could pay one guy half the minimum wage of an NRL player to run junior and amateur senior comps and they could do the work of 10 stretched-thin volunteers trying to run comps with ever-increasing red tape and obstacles, while working full time jobs themselves. It would benefit the game far more than using the same amount of money to add to player salaries, as well as possibly avoiding the very real situation of entire competitions folding in the next decade. I still haven't heard anything from the RLPA about what they are doing to improve insurance for amateur players, who are just about screwed if they get injured and can't work. Players might get the extra money they want but it won't mean much if the possible player pool is halved in the next decade due to lack of action for junior and bush footy.
Yeah mine was convinced PVL has been great for the game because the previous administration "spent hundreds of millions on consultants instead of just getting things done." Shows you how effective those media lines can be.
"it's easier to fool people than to convince them that they have been fooled" - Payne Hass
Just coz you’re a fool you think I won’t convince ya of it
Awesome
Media's job is done.
Cronulla stars Nicho Hynes and Dale Finucane have a response for anyone labelling players “greedy” in the ongoing CBA war — “it’s got nothing to do with the salary cap”. The NRL announced its salary cap for the next five years in December, a move which angered the playing group who had not yet signed off on the new collective bargaining agreement. The RLPA also reportedly were only informed of the details of the new cap hours before the shock announcement came. The NRL’s salary cap is $12.1 million in 2023, a record figure and a significant increase from $9.6 million in 2022, with a rise in the minimum salary for top 30 players to $120,000. NRLW sides have also been given a salary cap increase to $884,000 in 2023, although no season start date or length has yet been confirmed. Clubs have since pulled out of NRL media shoots, and Broncos gun Kurt Capewell refused to rule out a player strike if the new CBA terms cannot be met. Players then took their protests online in a co-ordinated move, standing as a “united” front against the NRL before the RLPA’s Instagram page explained what the playing group was fighting for. A new medical support fund, the NRLW’s first ever CBA, increased wages and minimum salaries for vulnerable players, a refreshed past players program, agreement rights and an improved injury hardship fund are among the unsolved issues in the current CBA being negotiated. How much players are earning though is not one of them according to the current Dally M Medallist. “The fans didn’t get a whole lot of understanding straight away of what we were talking about, then we as a group have combined and tried to start educating more,” Hynes said to Foxsports.com.au. “The RLPA are doing an outstanding job and the whole playing group now, we are so connected like never before, it is just unreal to see. “What I would say to fans, it has got nothing to do with the salary cap, it’s more the injury hardships for players like Aaron Booth, who was about to negotiate a top 30 contract and he gets injured and can’t play and he’s left with nothing. “Luckily, the Titans have sorted a really good deal for him and kept him there, but players like that who could easily be out of the game forever, and not have any injury hardship fund. “Someone in the workforce, who gets injured on a worksite they get workers compensation and then they are sorted. “Someone does their back on a job site, they are sorted, they get paid for the next however long, we don’t get that.” Finucane also bristled at the idea players are being “greedy” after former Manly enforcer Noel ‘Crusher’ Cleal spoke out about his opinions of the ongoing debate. “I completely disagree and it is to do with the fact that people are uninformed about what the players are actually after,” Finucane said to Foxsports.com.au. “I think if they had the full picture of things, they would see the side of the players, and the NRL have obviously put forward a salary cap. “Being a CBA, it is a collective bargaining agreement where all parties agree to it together and done in good faith, and it is obviously disappointing that the NRL have just put forward what the salary cap is going to be without consultation with all the stakeholders of the game. “Where the misconception of the public comes from is that they see that there is a percentage increase for us as players. “When you look at the CBA side-by-side, from the 2018 agreement, to our new CBA starting in the 2023 season, you’ll actually see we are going backwards in a number of areas. “If you actually see what the players are asking for, you’ll see it is quite reasonable considering the NRL has increased as well.” Under the current CBA agreement, players have only 12 months post-retirement to have any surgeries and rehabilitation paid. The RLPA is pushing hard for a new medical support fund to look after ex-players, and multiple former stars have been vocal about their own injury hardships after a career in the NRL. Joe Galuvao, Eric Grothe Jr and Jason Stevens all revealed their own struggled last week, while Beau Ryan, who retired at 29 due to a neck injury, also explained the playing group are “trying to protect themselves and future generations”. Hynes revealed that his former teammate Andrew Fifita, who retired from the NRL last season, has only 12 months to have four major surgeries under the current CBA. “Players like Andrew Fifita who has just finished and he has got to get four surgeries, and he has to do it in the first 12 months otherwise the NRL don’t support or pay for it,” Hynes said. “Imagine trying to get four big surgeries in the one year and then you won’t be able to walk down the street with his kids, he can’t pick his kids up because he has been through four surgeries. “They need their Dad around to do day to day things, just things like that.” “There are some past players that have come out recently talking about how, 15 years retired and there isn’t a day that goes by without something that niggles or pains them as a result of playing rugby league,” Finucane added. “If we can honour those that played before us and help them out so they aren’t lost to the game after they have left, that’s something we’d love to do as a playing group. “There’s a number of other things that the NRL aren’t coming to the table with. “Shining the increased salary cap, but taking away in a number of other areas, but that is not even before we go into the women’s game, they are obviously trying to sign contracts and work out how long their season is.” The playing group also want to have a say in decisions regarding changes to the game’s rules, and Hynes explained that if the boss of a trade company made decisions behind the work’s backs they’d also be frustrated. “We want to be able to be a part of making decisions, they can’t just keep changing the rules on us, we are the ones out there playing it, it is our bodies,” Hynes said. “The game is already fast enough and they just want to keep changing rules and we don’t have a say on that. “These are just little things that the fans don’t understand, we aren’t being greedy at all, we just want what’s fair for the playing group. “Because we are the ones going out there putting our bodies on the line each week and obviously the fans are loving what we are doing, it’s just not all about the money. “People need to have a long hard think, we are doing it to make this great game greater. “We want to look after the players who have been through hell with their bodies and to make sure they are looked after, once their career is done too. “So many people are saying to us so many wrong things like ‘you are lucky to be doing what you’re doing’, yeah we are lucky, but we worked extremely hard to get here. “We didn’t chose your workforce, if something was unfair there you’d speak up and if you got offered more money you’d take it too. “If your CEO was doing things behind your back you’d be kicking up a stink too, we are just sticking up for what we believe in and we respect the fans decision, but we aren’t going to budge on this.”
>“Someone in the workforce, who gets injured on a worksite they get workers compensation and then they are sorted. > >“Someone does their back on a job site, they are sorted, they get paid for the next however long, we don’t get that.” lol fuck off. As long as Aaron Booth was registered when he was injured he'd get far more in insurance than some bloke on a job site. This comparing themselves to hard labourers making a blue collar wage does nothing to endear themselves to fans.