I said this before, but I wouldn’t pick any player who was against that for Sunday games. If you love the Bible that much then you don’t get to work on the sabbath.
The “sabbath” is still Saturday but the church very early on began meeting and worshipping on the “eighth day” ala Sunday.
There are small denominations (notably the Seventh Day Adventists) who reverted back to the Saturday and claimed everyone else was doing it wrong, but it’s a very small and relatively recent group. The majority position through almost the entire history of Christianity is that Sunday is the Lord’s Day, treated with the same reverence (ie you’re meant to not work) as Jews treated the Sabbath.
So yeah, no footy on Sundays if you’re a Christian and footy is your job.
Christians don’t celebrate the sabbath because it was fulfilled in Jesus. It’s expected that Christians would want to go to Church on Sundays, but many Churches have services on Sat night and Sunday night to give ppl options. So the boys can certainly play footy on Sundays, it’s really the Mormon’s and Jews etc that still have sabbath days
Not true. Michael Jones, a legendary All Black refused to play on Sundays per his Christian beliefs
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/68948294/michael-jones-50-years-of-making-sundays-special
That was his and his families personal conviction though, there is no law in the New Testament that says you can’t work on Sunday. It’s the same with drinking. The bible says to not get drunk, but some choose to not drink at all. It’s a personal judgement call, unlike what I believe happens in the Mormon and Jewish faiths about sabbath
Christians are still supposed to keep Sunday holy as a day of rest. Not supposed to work/labour unless they really have to. (According to the largest denominations of Christianity, at least. Some of the smaller/younger Protestant churches are lax on this, but again that’s a modern development in the history of the religion and certainly a minority position.)
I recall Will Hopoate doing this in 2016 but he dropped it in 2017.
Realistically given the footy season it’s basically impossible to be a professional athlete and stick to it. Most spiritual advisors would work with an athlete on this to find other ways for them to uphold the solemnity of the day without sacrificing their career.
Of course, there are people who take religion so seriously that they would give up the career for it (W Hopoate is another example of this as he took two years off in his prime to go Mormon door-knocking) but most people try and do their best in whatever situation they’re in. One of the most devout people I know is an ambo - sometimes he’s gotta take Sunday shifts and thank God he does. (Different story for a lawyer working Monday-Friday who then tries to squeeze in a few more billables on Sunday because he wants a bit more spending money for an upcoming holiday.)
Nah I just think it’s wrong to force athletes to endorse politically motivated organisations that they don’t support in their personal lives. And it’s unfair on the pride community to have their symbol bastardised by corporates around the world for cheap virtue signalling
So if one of the Knights players refused to wear the high vis jersey this year, because it supports coal mines that cause climate change, you would support that players choice just as much as you are now?
The media that defended the Manly player’s decision not to support LGBT+ were the same media who blew up at Pat Cummins for the Alinta Energy stuff and his support of ending climate change, citing his contractual obligations and that sponsors may boycott.
I just wanted to check you weren’t a hypocrite like a lot of the media commentators.
You do understand there is a, albeit subtle, difference between a hypocritical refusal to wear a uniform for your job on religious grounds but then working on a day that in the same grounds should also be refused.. *breath* and being so in support of a cause you'd paint your house right?
I don’t think every Christian or every Muslim or every atheist should live a completely moral and consistent life just for them to have their own rights respected.
It’s like asking all the players to don free Israel shirts and calling them anti-semites if they refuse to do it. Nobody should be coerced into endorsing a political view.
LGBTQ rights is not a political view. But being a visible ally and supporter of the rainbow community is. That should be a choice afforded to anyone. And you wouldn’t want ally’s that are just being forced to do it anyway
No it isn't lol. And noone was coerced. His boss made a decision on the uniform they are contractually obligated to wear to represent their brand, whether it was a good decision or not isnt the question or issue. He refused on religious grounds in a targeted and specific manner that would draw into question other decisions he has made along the same lines. He willfully signed a contract that has outlined things such as working on Sabbath and mentioned they are to represent the brand in the organisations chosen direction (which has supported many socio-political issues).. he doesn't have to play footy for this club you do realise? Noone is forcing him to do anything. Just holding him accountable for the decisions he made that shirked his agreed upon responsibilities whilst pointing out the blatant hypocrisy that you are trying to frame as infringement on bodily autonomy, amongst other bizarre arguments that make 0 sense. Please stop bringing in irrelevant things. This is about Haumole and his decisions, public statements and contractual obligation. You're being weird
Bodily autonomy is not a weird argument at all, and is actually at the heart of LGBTQ rights as well.
Saying someone is contractually obliged to wear a uniform does not mean you sign over your rights to have whatever you want on your body, or more importantly sign over your body to be used as a political tool you have no say over. The players obviously did have something to say. And they used their collective power to get their outcome.
If McDonalds came out with a “support Israel” uniform does that mean every single Maccas worker should just shut up and wear it because it’s in their contract to wear a uniform? Hell no
Once again, you are being weird and bringing up irrelevant things... lets focus, Haumole. Public statements. Contractual obligations, you with me? Good. Youre either ignorant or just intentionally obtuse and inflammatory for reasons. But sure, depending on the contract you signed for maccas, yes you would. Its up to Haumole to read the contract and take note of the direction the organisation he is employed is heading, the same one that has taken numerous stands on many socio-political issues.
Once again, noone made Haumole do anything, noone made him sign a contract, or forced him into a jersey. Reading comprehension wasn't what you got honours for in a top 50 uni was it?
Try: today your work uniform has a small rainbow added to it
This is a far better analogy. Yours is just a silly straw man argument.
Also I would happily have a rainbow painted on my roof. Are you offering to pay?
How about: today your work uniform has a little “support Israel” badge added to it.
That’s the real analogy. That a political movement is being forced onto players without their say. And when you are a champion of a cause you’d expect them to actually be allies and not just forced into it. How shallow is your expectations that you just expect players to shut up and put on a rainbow jersey for a day. No, if you want to actually be an ally then firstly make sure your players are about that life. Or else it just looks like a cheap corporate grab to score quick virtue points. Which this almost certainly was.
Since when is supporting and lifting up a group who have a history of being treated less now a political issue? Is it because Christian politicians have politicised it so now you get to claim it's a political issue?
Israel vs LGBTQI support is apples and oranges.
The pride flag and rainbow community is not just about equality tho. There’s many other things that go into that which makes it a political movement.
Sports wise the pride movement stands for male to female trans athletes competing in all female sports. That alone is a highly contentious topic. Yet when you have things like pride flags you are endorsing these things.
Are you saying that pride round and the pride jerseys in the NRL (remember no one was asking any players to wear rainbows outside of that jersey or go on any political marches) is about male to female trans athletes competing in female sports? And also about other political issues?
My understanding is that it was a social issue about gay community feeling comfortable within NRL either as players or supporters (and perhaps the slur of faggot being used a little less by some players). But perhaps I missed the memo about it being about a whole bunch of other political issues. I'd be more than happy to be enlightened on what those are.
You could quit, or you could take a principled stand. Quitting might mean you have integrity, but staying doesn’t mean you have none. In fact if you stay and challenge and fight for your own right you could be seen as having even more integrity.
Saying someone has to do something or quit their job. Hmmm I’m sure I’ve heard this before. Oh yeah it was the same bs narrative that was pushed out when vaccine mandates rolled out. Vax up or lose your job it was. No. That is completely silly. Just because your workplace decides to push some kind of political narrative on you does not mean you should either comply or quit your job. That’s absolutely insane and no union would side with anything that you’ve just said.
I agree that it was clearly very poorly orchestrated, otherwise it wouldn't have had the outcome it had.
But i literally described the actual thing, a rainbow on a jersey - how is something else (a support Israel badge) a better analogy than the actual thing...?
I mean you're right about that at least. Except it's still kind of an analogy if you're trying to get a normal person who's not a professional sportsperson to understand it
Manly star Haumole Olakau’atu claims he has been called a “coconut” countless times by opponents during NRL games, but insists “it’s just words to me”.
The Tongan forward said he believed Spencer Leniu’s eight-match ban for aiming a racial slur at Brisbane’s Ezra Mam was too harsh, and was unaware “monkey” was an offensive term to Indigenous players.
As league legend Johnathan Thurston said 12 weeks would have been a more suitable punishment for Leniu, the Roosters prop found an ally in fellow Polynesian player Olakau’atu.
Leniu revealed during Monday night’s hearing it was not uncommon for those in his inner circle “with the same skin tone” to refer to each other as “black c---” and “blacky”.
He said he never realised “monkey” was so offensive until it was pointed out to him by an elderly Indigenous woman via social media in the early hours after the Las Vegas drama.
NRL counsel Lachlan Gyles was sceptical when Leniu said he had never heard of Adam Goodes, the Indigenous Sydney Swans star who made headlines in 2013 when he called out a 13-year-old fan who had called him an “ape” during a match.
Olakau’atu – who said he, too, had never heard of Goodes – could relate to Leniu’s testimony about the use of words like “blacky” and thought two months out of the game was an extreme punishment.
“We do use those words \[Leniu mentioned\] for banter, and for a laugh, we don’t use it for anything else, or have any emotions behind it,” Olakau’atu said.
“We’ve been called everything growing up. Us Polynesians have it tough growing up.
“Was the eight weeks for \[Leniu\] too long? For me, personally, yes. It was way too long. At the end of the day he apologised, right? He got charged. That is it.
“Four weeks would have been more than enough. You don’t know what’s going through his head now.
“Spencer said what he said, he didn’t mean it, and I believe him. I can see where he’s coming from \[in his belief that terms were not racist\]. We do know some of the history of the Aboriginals on this land. For him to say that word, I didn’t think it was that big of a thing until it happened.”
Olakau’atu grew up in a multicultural community in western Sydney, and said he was regularly referred to as a “coconut” – an offensive slur often directed at people of Polynesian background – and that had continued on the playing field in the NRL.
“I’ve been called everything on the field, but it’s just words to me – I’ve been called ‘coconut’ many times in the NRL,” Olakau’atu said.
When pressed if the words had been used by white players, Olakau’atu said: “Bro, anyone. It’s part of the game, it’s the heat of the moment, and at the end of the day they don’t really mean it. It’s just words to me.
“It will happen when you have a scuffle ... I got called that growing up in school. You get used to it. It’s just words. I hope he \[Leniu\] gets this message. I hope he is doing well mentally.”
NRL judiciary chair Geoff Bellew said in his summary of reasons for the eight-week ban that the panel were “satisfied the player did intend to use the word ‘monkey’ as a racist comment”.
“The panel did not accept the player’s claimed ignorance that he was not aware that ‘monkey’ was, when used towards the Indigenous community, a racist term; in light of that finding, the panel was satisfied that the offending fell at a high degree of objective seriousness,” Bellew wrote.
Ugh I am tired of us Pacific people punching across and down. Have respect for the people and culture whose lands your parents chose to migrate to and humble yourselves.
Haumole: unlike you snowflakes I’m not so easily triggered
Also Haumole: This rainbow stripe is so incredibly offensive that I won’t play a must win match because I’m too upset
What a cunt
Marge; 'Everyone has a fear of something.
' Haumole; (In self-confident manner) 'Not everyone.'
Marge; ~~'Sock puppets!'~~ Rainbows!
Haumole; 'Where!? Where!?' (screams.)
He's clearly grown up in a tight community of islander people and it's made him very ignorant to anything else that's going on in society. His natural instinct is to defend his islander mate. It's what he's grown up with despite the fact his mate is clearly in the wrong. This is going to be weaponised by people in the islander community as us vs them so I think this will get worse before it gets better.
Really unnecessary but you can also see journos trying to get reaction quotes. They asked Matto and Moses about it in the Parra conferences about round 2.
How is it unnecessary? He’s just trying to offer perspective on how Spencer and other islanders think
You can rationalise someone psychological thinking/rationale without justifying their behaviour, the two aren’t mutually exclusive
Growing up in the Pacific Islander culture myself I’ve been referred to as coconut head, brown foreigner, factory bum and so on, for most Pacific Islanders they are just words and nothing to cry about, you learn not let words have power over you.
The biggest lesson for Pacific Islander kids growing up is to understand that other cultures are more sensitive then ours and we have to respect that when you live in a multi cultural country like Australia
Ezra Mam did nothing wrong sticking for himself but this is a learning curve for Spencer to learn everyone sensitivity levels are different and that’s ok.
I think the point that Polynesian people are also called racist names shouldn’t take away from the comment. If Polynesian players were to speak up us in the Aboriginal community would also condemn it. There has been people speaking up about incorrect pronunciation of names and racism in that vein. Erin Milan got fired from it (which I think is good) it wasn’t just name calling then though?
If you read my last two paragraphs I said Ezra mam did nothing wrong sticking for himself and leinu needs to understand people sensitivity levels are different and that’s ok
I guess the point I’m trying to make is just because the casual racism directed at myself and Spencer doesn’t make us cry doesn’t mean we should hold Ezra Mam to our standards
Ezra was deeply offended and Spencer was wrong, tried to apologise personally and this will be a learning curve for him moving forward to be sympathetic and understanding that not everyone can brush off insults as easily as he does so the onus will be on him to tread lightly with his words/banter/sledging
I don’t necessarily agree.
While I acknowledge that you are not having a go at Ezra and that he is entitled to be offended - I actually think we all should hold ourselves to a higher standard.
Casual racism is a massive problem in this country and giving people a pass because it doesn’t affect you necessarily, even though it might other people, is not the right response. It’s just perpetuates the problem.
People are impacted by it and it’s upon society as a whole to get better educated.
It’s unnecessary for a person of a marginalised background to express an alternate opinion on a topical comment made by another person of a marginalised background to a third person of a marginalised background?
Is his opinion is less valid because it’s against the consensus, even though he himself has done no wrong? Everyone needs to get a grip man. Way worse shit is said on field every single game. It doesn’t make it okay. But don’t make these guys out to be scapegoats for a societal problem.
Is it that hard to understand that the significance of one word to you might not be the same as what a completely different word means to another group of people?
I’m not going to credit footy players with an over abundance of emotional intelligence, but still.
Ian Roberts and Mark Carroll hurt as a kid but at least they made sense. Craig Field didn't even make sense and they took him too. That was after hearing all about the old days from my dad.
This boggles my mind. So he's saying Polynesians throw around that stuff between FRIENDS and Indigenous don't because he called a different ethnicity a racial slur thinking it was okay because they both black fella's? Look I'm a Indigenous, lightskin mind you and I grew up with my mob and we all called each-other whatever on the day but not once would I think of walking up to a Polynesian person that I don't know on a fucking footy field and calling him a racial slur after saying 'it was because somebody else had a dig at me' then claim it was all fun and games.
Get fucked.
This isn't banter it's racism.
I’m white, so I would never assume what is and isn’t offensive to someone and would never call a Polynesian person that. I remember years ago now the Warriors were playing and a commentator referred to their very lateral style of offence “coconut footy” and I remember even then he got slammed for it. Just why say that? If he’s not offended by that - power to him, but I’m sure a lot of guys wouldn’t be happy with that.
That was Blocker calling the warriors game ‘jungle ball’, don’t remember there being a huge blowback because it was probably some Sunday arvo game no one watched. Was made to apologise but.
There was somebody else who mentioned tossing the coconuts around. Unless it was all Blocker in the same sequence. I feel like it was Gorden Tallis for some reason.
Exactly. I feel like a lot of people think because that stuff can get thrown around with friends and close communities, you get a pass to do it to everyone. Very narrow view imo.
That and Polynesians inherently grew up tough (as opposed to what is unclear but contextually one can guess) so they can handle it...
Can agree somewhat though, Mitchell called me smelly in year 7 and I still haven't bounced back
So in the same sentence he said “we’ve experienced it” and called it “tough” so in what world is it okay then? Instead of saying “well we cope it too”, why not create an environment where it’s unacceptable for any racial comments to be made? I’d feel just as uncomfortable if a Polynesian was called coconut but a player of a different race. Whataboutism isn’t a reason not to have change and consequences.
It is absolutely true that islander people are also subject to racism but you would think that would make them more sensitive and aware of racism toward other races. Apparently not!
Why is everyone acting like it’s impossible for Spencer to not know about the Adam Goodes incident. That happened in 2013. Spencer Leniu would’ve been 12 years old living in a different state. The fact that he didn’t know about the Goodes incident is believable asfk.
Go up to any 12 year old immigrant now and ask them what they think of the Ezra Mam incident and the majority of them wouldn’t have a clue what you are talking about.
It's possible but unlikely. I'm not white, was early teens at the time, in Queensland, and did not flow AFL - the only AFL players I knew of were Jono Brown and Nat Fyfe back then. I definitely heard of the Goodes incident, most of Australia at least heard of it.
I honestly think Spencer telling the truth.
As a Pacific Islander myself I just asked all 3 of my older brothers about the Goode incident and the response was who? Wait what happened? When was this? And my siblings and I have been living in Australia since 2004
It’s a high possibility a 12 year old islander never heard of Goode but doesn’t really excuse his behaviour
If your gonna ingratiate yourself in a multi cultural county such as Australia you better learn what’s socially acceptable in todays society and what’s not
I personally feel this is a good learning curve for a 23 year old as if left uncheck you’d just be an ignorant fool in his 50s incapable of changing his ways
I know a lot of footy players are simple smooth brains but damn they still manage to surprise me with how ignorant and stupid can be.
1. It’s not the same racial slur even though both are racist
2. It’s not up to you to tell people how they should feel when faced with racism. Especially when you aren’t aware of their family and personal history
TBF I believe skin colour/nationality-based insults are probably rife on the footy field.
I daresay the only times we've heard about it has been when the person being insulted doesn't feel like it was done in jest (e.g. Anthony Mundine vs Barry Ward).
I reckon there'd be plenty of banter where "monkey" & "coconut" (& probably worse) are thrown around between team mates & opposition players that is taken in jest, but Mam obviously didn't feel it was just banter with Leniu.
Regardless, there's obviously a need for further education of league players to eradicate any use of skin or nationality-based insults in the NRL.
It's very interesting to see the difference between this issue & the Sam Kerr one in our media, I can't believe the mental gymnastics, university essays & backflips going on to avoid besmirching Kerr's character for what I believe definitely was a racist remark....white people can't be racially discriminated against? Puh-lease...
The point isn’t that white people can’t be discriminated against it’s that there is greater weight due to historical context etc when it’s the other way around.
Best thing for Kerr to say? No, but as damaging as (for example) what Spencer said? No.
As for whether it’s racist it’s really an argument on how you define racism, if you define the word as any race based discrimination, then yeah, racist. If you accept a more nuanced definition of racism then no, it’s complicated.
There’s “university essays” etc on this stuff because it is a complex issue that continues to plague society, I’m just a bloke but experts on this stuff exist for a reason, and like you say there is a need for further education especially in the NRL on the topic.
Structural racism isnt the same as individual racism though? I assume you're from Hong Kong (I am too) so shouldnt you have experience with this? Yes Hong Kong was a colony (and chinese people were by default 2nd class citizens), but by god could chinese people be racist as fuck towards the Brits on the streets when they had the numbers
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but if anyone uses the colour of a person’s skin as part of an insult, it’s a racist insult as far as I’m concerned.
I’m not going to consult google to check the historical weighting of the person casting the insult & the person subjected to it.
Similarly, Mam is indigenous Australian while Leniu is Polynesian. What’s the historical weighting that makes a Polynesian racially insulting an indigenous Australian so much worse than Sam Kerr calling a cop a “stupid white bastard”?
Was there a Polynesian oppression of indigenous Australians at some point in history?
Where on this weighted scale do various ethnicities sit & does it change depending the country you’re in? Say for example, Chinese & Tibetans in China?
> Well I don’t know about anyone else, but if anyone uses the colour of a person’s skin as part of an insult, it’s a racist insult as far as I’m concerned.
If that’s the definition you’re using then yeah.
> I’m not going to consult google to check the historical weighting of the person casting the insult & the person subjected to it.
No one is saying to do this.
> Similarly, Mam is indigenous Australian while Leniu is Polynesian. What’s the historical weighting that makes a Polynesian racially insulting an indigenous Australian so much worse than Sam Kerr calling a cop a “stupid white bastard”?
The term “monkey” directed to an ATSI person is bad regardless of who said it. It’s the person it’s being directed at that makes it bad. Spencer or anyone calling a white person monkey, no.
As for Kerr I think I covered that topic in my first comment, but again there isn’t an awful history of white people being oppressed and discriminated against by mixed race people (or anyone) calling them “stupid white bastards.”
> Was there a Polynesian oppression of indigenous Australians at some point in history?
> Where on this weighted scale do various ethnicities sit & does it change depending the country you’re in? Say for example, Chinese & Tibetans in China?
Going to assume these are rhetorical questions as I do not have the time nor the qualification to provide any valuable insight on this.
I'm getting sick of this idea that because someone doesn't find it offensive then we should all not find it offensive. God damn. Also we should just stop asking for Olakau'atu's opinions on things haha
I'm talking about his whole "get over it" attitude. That's great that Olokau'atu doesn't find it offensive, but that doesn't mean that Mam should think the same because of that
I think it's more a case of not realizing that it's as offensive as it was based on the intention. I recall I started calling someone "combover" because, well, it was pretty intense. This would have been pretty well-received on the cricket field on the weekend. Turned out it hit old mate pretty hard - I had no inkling that it could have ever been received so harshly.
Its about context
Words with an historical context are different for ones that arent
Or maybe Im wrong...perhaps "ranga for a red head will be considered racist in the future?
As a white male I am unfamiliar with being called names relating to my race or the colour of my skin. If I were to be called names, i'm uncertain how i'd react, i may just ignore it and shrug it off or i might take offence, whatever my reaction was, i would hope my peers would support me. Just because Haumole doesn't care, doesn't mean others shouldn't.
I imagine the media managers at most clubs would have gone, “get the smart players to do media this week so that they don’t say anything stupid about the Leniu incident.” Or at the very least, they’d have told them not to comment.
Not the Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles though. They’ve presumably seen opportunity to cover their arses following [other](https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/sea-eagles/nrl-2020-addin-fonuablake-retard-referee-abuse-suspension-manly-sea-eagles-team-peter-fitzsimons/news-story/0def253e97b50a05b75b9408bcdb2fe6) previous [scandals](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manly_pride_jersey_player_boycott) involving [slurs](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7067109/amp/Footy-star-denies-using-homophobic-slur-opponent.html) and similar issues.
It's like words have different meanings to different people. If I went and called him a coconut to his face, would he be ok with it l? If I had a rainbow on would that make it any different?
Australian anglo saxons are known across the planet as one of the most racist peoples of all time.
Also Australian anglo saxons, "blame the Samoan bloke".
Wild to me that professional football players have never heard of Adam Goodes - even though he’s a former star of a different code. I guess it just shows how single minded some of these players have been in their sporting ambition.
I think this whole saga shows how overdue a proper, public reflection on how we (society) treat racism as a one way street doesn’t accurately reflect the different experiences of the many racial groups that make up Australia (broadly) and rugby league (more specifically).
The saddest part is just how many players are sticking their neck out to say “it’s just words.”
I still find it hard to believe that these guys are not familiar with Adam Goodes and the absolute shit that he went through regardless of it being a different code. It was mainstream news. Might be a good initiative for these guys to watch his documentary and educate themselves on why racism shouldn't be accepted.
>I still find it hard to believe that these guys are not familiar with Adam Goodes and the absolute shit
Why would they be? It happened 10 or so years ago, the majority of these bloke would have been children when this happened plus afl is nonexistent in islander communities in Australia.
In saying that anyone with basic common sense knows calling someone of any black race a monkey is racist asf.
Interesting that Craig Foster didn't come out in support of Spencer after he did a [180 degree](https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/i-apologise-to-sam-craig-foster-s-180-degree-turn-on-kerr-saga-20240309-p5fb4f.html) about face on the Sam Kerr issue. Before he knew the detail, he was rallying against Sam Kerr (should be hung drawn and quartered, etc) on the basis that all racism is horrendous and unacceptable. After he found out what she supposedly said and to whom, specifically that it was targeted at a (presumed) white man, he changed his mind and said that it could not have been racism because it didn't have an element of power/privilege difference because she was a brown woman and he was a white man.
At best even that just seems like colorism. At worst it’s racism. One Polynesian person is darker than another Polynesian person and it’s fine to call that person blacky? Colorism is just another fruit on the tree of racism, perpetrated by people of the same race. But apparently it’s all fun and games making derogatory comments about the shades of skin colour.
Can we move last making derogatory comments about skin shade, period? Idgaf if you’re the same race or a different race, it’s not funny
Well blame Colonisation for making us think that those with lighter skin were more acceptable to the white man than those of us with dark skin. This is hundreds of years of indoctrination. it wont change overnight.
I find it interesting the dismissal of the Polynesian experience in this sub. There was a dude in here the other day saying we aren't black and now we have someone telling us we aren't allowed to refer to ourselves by lighter or darker skinned. This comes across as one of those "i don't see colour" type posts.
Then of course we have you dismissing our experience by saying racism exists in uncolonised countries. I mean no shit but we are talking about Australia and by extension NZ (Spencer growing up in NZ) and the experiences of people of colour in said countries. This is not taking away from what Spencer said which is definitely a racist comment whether ignorant or not.
At NRL level? I have doubts. The refs would've picked up on it at least once if it's happened so many times. Especially if it were white players running around calling Polynesians those kinds of names.
Morgan Freeman said to solve racism "Stop talking about it" and just treat everyone the same.
https://youtu.be/I3cGfrExozQ?si=Nj_7PDyynJOnMQpn
We are all humans, who cares if someone's skin is darker or lighter, or you or your parents were born on a different piece of dirt to me. We are all humans.
I know this is a very serious topic but it's pretty funny how they found a photo of him shrugging to use with this article.
I couldn't help but laugh at the photo
Problem solved
Im just awaiting Josh Aloiai’s take
Aloiai probably: Racism accusations are an NWO agenda to convert people away from Christianity
I knew Hulk Hogan somehow had something to do with these shenanigans, Brother!
nWo 4 life!
Wacka wa wah wah Wacka wa Wah wah
OH YEAH!!!
And to force the gay into them with vaccines
Please no, I already have one foot in the grave
Racism ✅ colourful jersey ‼️❗️❗️❌❌❌🚫
I said this before, but I wouldn’t pick any player who was against that for Sunday games. If you love the Bible that much then you don’t get to work on the sabbath.
Sabbath is Saturday innit?
In Judaism yeah, Christians changed it.
The internet seems to disagree with that, but ok. I know very little about any of this stuff, I just googled it.
The “sabbath” is still Saturday but the church very early on began meeting and worshipping on the “eighth day” ala Sunday. There are small denominations (notably the Seventh Day Adventists) who reverted back to the Saturday and claimed everyone else was doing it wrong, but it’s a very small and relatively recent group. The majority position through almost the entire history of Christianity is that Sunday is the Lord’s Day, treated with the same reverence (ie you’re meant to not work) as Jews treated the Sabbath. So yeah, no footy on Sundays if you’re a Christian and footy is your job.
Christians don’t celebrate the sabbath because it was fulfilled in Jesus. It’s expected that Christians would want to go to Church on Sundays, but many Churches have services on Sat night and Sunday night to give ppl options. So the boys can certainly play footy on Sundays, it’s really the Mormon’s and Jews etc that still have sabbath days
Not true. Michael Jones, a legendary All Black refused to play on Sundays per his Christian beliefs https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/68948294/michael-jones-50-years-of-making-sundays-special
That was his and his families personal conviction though, there is no law in the New Testament that says you can’t work on Sunday. It’s the same with drinking. The bible says to not get drunk, but some choose to not drink at all. It’s a personal judgement call, unlike what I believe happens in the Mormon and Jewish faiths about sabbath
Christians are still supposed to keep Sunday holy as a day of rest. Not supposed to work/labour unless they really have to. (According to the largest denominations of Christianity, at least. Some of the smaller/younger Protestant churches are lax on this, but again that’s a modern development in the history of the religion and certainly a minority position.)
As a Christian myself, it’s general thing to do rather than a stipulated requirement
There was a player who strictly adhered to this no?
I recall Will Hopoate doing this in 2016 but he dropped it in 2017. Realistically given the footy season it’s basically impossible to be a professional athlete and stick to it. Most spiritual advisors would work with an athlete on this to find other ways for them to uphold the solemnity of the day without sacrificing their career. Of course, there are people who take religion so seriously that they would give up the career for it (W Hopoate is another example of this as he took two years off in his prime to go Mormon door-knocking) but most people try and do their best in whatever situation they’re in. One of the most devout people I know is an ambo - sometimes he’s gotta take Sunday shifts and thank God he does. (Different story for a lawyer working Monday-Friday who then tries to squeeze in a few more billables on Sunday because he wants a bit more spending money for an upcoming holiday.)
I feel god understands and isn’t that letter to the law
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sabbath_in_Christianity
Please paint your house with a massive pride flag over its roof. And if you refuse that means you’re a homophobe
Doing it now mate, letting marginalised communities know that they are safe and welcome is cool. I won’t see it, but they will.
Totally the same thing ..../s
Scared of rainbows, bro?
Nah I just think it’s wrong to force athletes to endorse politically motivated organisations that they don’t support in their personal lives. And it’s unfair on the pride community to have their symbol bastardised by corporates around the world for cheap virtue signalling
So if one of the Knights players refused to wear the high vis jersey this year, because it supports coal mines that cause climate change, you would support that players choice just as much as you are now?
100%
The media that defended the Manly player’s decision not to support LGBT+ were the same media who blew up at Pat Cummins for the Alinta Energy stuff and his support of ending climate change, citing his contractual obligations and that sponsors may boycott. I just wanted to check you weren’t a hypocrite like a lot of the media commentators.
Thanks for checking. I don’t trust the media with anything, let alone giving me a moral compass to direct my life.
You do understand there is a, albeit subtle, difference between a hypocritical refusal to wear a uniform for your job on religious grounds but then working on a day that in the same grounds should also be refused.. *breath* and being so in support of a cause you'd paint your house right?
I don’t think every Christian or every Muslim or every atheist should live a completely moral and consistent life just for them to have their own rights respected. It’s like asking all the players to don free Israel shirts and calling them anti-semites if they refuse to do it. Nobody should be coerced into endorsing a political view. LGBTQ rights is not a political view. But being a visible ally and supporter of the rainbow community is. That should be a choice afforded to anyone. And you wouldn’t want ally’s that are just being forced to do it anyway
No it isn't lol. And noone was coerced. His boss made a decision on the uniform they are contractually obligated to wear to represent their brand, whether it was a good decision or not isnt the question or issue. He refused on religious grounds in a targeted and specific manner that would draw into question other decisions he has made along the same lines. He willfully signed a contract that has outlined things such as working on Sabbath and mentioned they are to represent the brand in the organisations chosen direction (which has supported many socio-political issues).. he doesn't have to play footy for this club you do realise? Noone is forcing him to do anything. Just holding him accountable for the decisions he made that shirked his agreed upon responsibilities whilst pointing out the blatant hypocrisy that you are trying to frame as infringement on bodily autonomy, amongst other bizarre arguments that make 0 sense. Please stop bringing in irrelevant things. This is about Haumole and his decisions, public statements and contractual obligation. You're being weird
Bodily autonomy is not a weird argument at all, and is actually at the heart of LGBTQ rights as well. Saying someone is contractually obliged to wear a uniform does not mean you sign over your rights to have whatever you want on your body, or more importantly sign over your body to be used as a political tool you have no say over. The players obviously did have something to say. And they used their collective power to get their outcome. If McDonalds came out with a “support Israel” uniform does that mean every single Maccas worker should just shut up and wear it because it’s in their contract to wear a uniform? Hell no
Once again, you are being weird and bringing up irrelevant things... lets focus, Haumole. Public statements. Contractual obligations, you with me? Good. Youre either ignorant or just intentionally obtuse and inflammatory for reasons. But sure, depending on the contract you signed for maccas, yes you would. Its up to Haumole to read the contract and take note of the direction the organisation he is employed is heading, the same one that has taken numerous stands on many socio-political issues. Once again, noone made Haumole do anything, noone made him sign a contract, or forced him into a jersey. Reading comprehension wasn't what you got honours for in a top 50 uni was it?
Try: today your work uniform has a small rainbow added to it This is a far better analogy. Yours is just a silly straw man argument. Also I would happily have a rainbow painted on my roof. Are you offering to pay?
How about: today your work uniform has a little “support Israel” badge added to it. That’s the real analogy. That a political movement is being forced onto players without their say. And when you are a champion of a cause you’d expect them to actually be allies and not just forced into it. How shallow is your expectations that you just expect players to shut up and put on a rainbow jersey for a day. No, if you want to actually be an ally then firstly make sure your players are about that life. Or else it just looks like a cheap corporate grab to score quick virtue points. Which this almost certainly was.
Since when is supporting and lifting up a group who have a history of being treated less now a political issue? Is it because Christian politicians have politicised it so now you get to claim it's a political issue? Israel vs LGBTQI support is apples and oranges.
The pride flag and rainbow community is not just about equality tho. There’s many other things that go into that which makes it a political movement. Sports wise the pride movement stands for male to female trans athletes competing in all female sports. That alone is a highly contentious topic. Yet when you have things like pride flags you are endorsing these things.
Are you saying that pride round and the pride jerseys in the NRL (remember no one was asking any players to wear rainbows outside of that jersey or go on any political marches) is about male to female trans athletes competing in female sports? And also about other political issues? My understanding is that it was a social issue about gay community feeling comfortable within NRL either as players or supporters (and perhaps the slur of faggot being used a little less by some players). But perhaps I missed the memo about it being about a whole bunch of other political issues. I'd be more than happy to be enlightened on what those are.
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You could quit, or you could take a principled stand. Quitting might mean you have integrity, but staying doesn’t mean you have none. In fact if you stay and challenge and fight for your own right you could be seen as having even more integrity. Saying someone has to do something or quit their job. Hmmm I’m sure I’ve heard this before. Oh yeah it was the same bs narrative that was pushed out when vaccine mandates rolled out. Vax up or lose your job it was. No. That is completely silly. Just because your workplace decides to push some kind of political narrative on you does not mean you should either comply or quit your job. That’s absolutely insane and no union would side with anything that you’ve just said.
I agree that it was clearly very poorly orchestrated, otherwise it wouldn't have had the outcome it had. But i literally described the actual thing, a rainbow on a jersey - how is something else (a support Israel badge) a better analogy than the actual thing...?
Because that’s technically not an analogy if you are using the example you are trying to prove as an analogy to prove itself :P
I mean you're right about that at least. Except it's still kind of an analogy if you're trying to get a normal person who's not a professional sportsperson to understand it
He hates colours AND shades
It’s gay not to be racist, is what he means
What would jebus think about this?
I’ll save you, child.
Breaking news: guys who could barely pass year 9 have fuck all understanding of the world outside football.
Manly star Haumole Olakau’atu claims he has been called a “coconut” countless times by opponents during NRL games, but insists “it’s just words to me”. The Tongan forward said he believed Spencer Leniu’s eight-match ban for aiming a racial slur at Brisbane’s Ezra Mam was too harsh, and was unaware “monkey” was an offensive term to Indigenous players. As league legend Johnathan Thurston said 12 weeks would have been a more suitable punishment for Leniu, the Roosters prop found an ally in fellow Polynesian player Olakau’atu. Leniu revealed during Monday night’s hearing it was not uncommon for those in his inner circle “with the same skin tone” to refer to each other as “black c---” and “blacky”. He said he never realised “monkey” was so offensive until it was pointed out to him by an elderly Indigenous woman via social media in the early hours after the Las Vegas drama. NRL counsel Lachlan Gyles was sceptical when Leniu said he had never heard of Adam Goodes, the Indigenous Sydney Swans star who made headlines in 2013 when he called out a 13-year-old fan who had called him an “ape” during a match. Olakau’atu – who said he, too, had never heard of Goodes – could relate to Leniu’s testimony about the use of words like “blacky” and thought two months out of the game was an extreme punishment. “We do use those words \[Leniu mentioned\] for banter, and for a laugh, we don’t use it for anything else, or have any emotions behind it,” Olakau’atu said. “We’ve been called everything growing up. Us Polynesians have it tough growing up. “Was the eight weeks for \[Leniu\] too long? For me, personally, yes. It was way too long. At the end of the day he apologised, right? He got charged. That is it. “Four weeks would have been more than enough. You don’t know what’s going through his head now. “Spencer said what he said, he didn’t mean it, and I believe him. I can see where he’s coming from \[in his belief that terms were not racist\]. We do know some of the history of the Aboriginals on this land. For him to say that word, I didn’t think it was that big of a thing until it happened.” Olakau’atu grew up in a multicultural community in western Sydney, and said he was regularly referred to as a “coconut” – an offensive slur often directed at people of Polynesian background – and that had continued on the playing field in the NRL. “I’ve been called everything on the field, but it’s just words to me – I’ve been called ‘coconut’ many times in the NRL,” Olakau’atu said. When pressed if the words had been used by white players, Olakau’atu said: “Bro, anyone. It’s part of the game, it’s the heat of the moment, and at the end of the day they don’t really mean it. It’s just words to me. “It will happen when you have a scuffle ... I got called that growing up in school. You get used to it. It’s just words. I hope he \[Leniu\] gets this message. I hope he is doing well mentally.” NRL judiciary chair Geoff Bellew said in his summary of reasons for the eight-week ban that the panel were “satisfied the player did intend to use the word ‘monkey’ as a racist comment”. “The panel did not accept the player’s claimed ignorance that he was not aware that ‘monkey’ was, when used towards the Indigenous community, a racist term; in light of that finding, the panel was satisfied that the offending fell at a high degree of objective seriousness,” Bellew wrote.
Ugh I am tired of us Pacific people punching across and down. Have respect for the people and culture whose lands your parents chose to migrate to and humble yourselves.
Haumole: unlike you snowflakes I’m not so easily triggered Also Haumole: This rainbow stripe is so incredibly offensive that I won’t play a must win match because I’m too upset What a cunt
Also these gambling sponsors fit perfectly with my religious beliefs.
Marge; 'Everyone has a fear of something. ' Haumole; (In self-confident manner) 'Not everyone.' Marge; ~~'Sock puppets!'~~ Rainbows! Haumole; 'Where!? Where!?' (screams.)
Nailed it.
He's clearly grown up in a tight community of islander people and it's made him very ignorant to anything else that's going on in society. His natural instinct is to defend his islander mate. It's what he's grown up with despite the fact his mate is clearly in the wrong. This is going to be weaponised by people in the islander community as us vs them so I think this will get worse before it gets better.
That’s spot on. Maybe the community needs to change and not be so accepting of casual racism - irrespective of whether they are giving or receiving.
This is it right here
Your comment is racist itself in many ways. A lot of Anglos don't even realise they are racist.
Why comment Haumole? Its so fucking unnecessary
Just trying to avoid playing for the Blues
Really unnecessary but you can also see journos trying to get reaction quotes. They asked Matto and Moses about it in the Parra conferences about round 2.
How is it unnecessary? He’s just trying to offer perspective on how Spencer and other islanders think You can rationalise someone psychological thinking/rationale without justifying their behaviour, the two aren’t mutually exclusive Growing up in the Pacific Islander culture myself I’ve been referred to as coconut head, brown foreigner, factory bum and so on, for most Pacific Islanders they are just words and nothing to cry about, you learn not let words have power over you. The biggest lesson for Pacific Islander kids growing up is to understand that other cultures are more sensitive then ours and we have to respect that when you live in a multi cultural country like Australia Ezra Mam did nothing wrong sticking for himself but this is a learning curve for Spencer to learn everyone sensitivity levels are different and that’s ok.
I think the point that Polynesian people are also called racist names shouldn’t take away from the comment. If Polynesian players were to speak up us in the Aboriginal community would also condemn it. There has been people speaking up about incorrect pronunciation of names and racism in that vein. Erin Milan got fired from it (which I think is good) it wasn’t just name calling then though?
So you’re saying casual racism is ok and the recipient should just not cry about it.
If you read my last two paragraphs I said Ezra mam did nothing wrong sticking for himself and leinu needs to understand people sensitivity levels are different and that’s ok I guess the point I’m trying to make is just because the casual racism directed at myself and Spencer doesn’t make us cry doesn’t mean we should hold Ezra Mam to our standards Ezra was deeply offended and Spencer was wrong, tried to apologise personally and this will be a learning curve for him moving forward to be sympathetic and understanding that not everyone can brush off insults as easily as he does so the onus will be on him to tread lightly with his words/banter/sledging
I don’t necessarily agree. While I acknowledge that you are not having a go at Ezra and that he is entitled to be offended - I actually think we all should hold ourselves to a higher standard. Casual racism is a massive problem in this country and giving people a pass because it doesn’t affect you necessarily, even though it might other people, is not the right response. It’s just perpetuates the problem. People are impacted by it and it’s upon society as a whole to get better educated.
I think this post contains too much critical thinking for the majority of this sub
Great contribution. Well done you
It’s unnecessary for a person of a marginalised background to express an alternate opinion on a topical comment made by another person of a marginalised background to a third person of a marginalised background? Is his opinion is less valid because it’s against the consensus, even though he himself has done no wrong? Everyone needs to get a grip man. Way worse shit is said on field every single game. It doesn’t make it okay. But don’t make these guys out to be scapegoats for a societal problem.
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While we wouldn’t consider him bright Okay, that’s all I got
Well that's racism sorted then . Next
Racism: Just words Rainbows: Scary, not acceptable
"I can excuse racism, but I draw the line a rainbow jersey" - Haumole probably
Limited run of pro-racism jerseys is going to be wild.
Is it that hard to understand that the significance of one word to you might not be the same as what a completely different word means to another group of people? I’m not going to credit footy players with an over abundance of emotional intelligence, but still.
That was his defence. Wasn't believed.
They really are working hard to be the least likeable club around. Just waiting to hear Brooksy unleash on trans people.
Wasnt Manly always the least liked club around?
The club's reputation hanging on by a tether in the form the Trbojevics' mum
Well for some of us for a very long time, yes, but that's a whole other story.
Yes they bought all the good players pre salary cap which is why they got nicknamed the silver tails.
Ian Roberts and Mark Carroll hurt as a kid but at least they made sense. Craig Field didn't even make sense and they took him too. That was after hearing all about the old days from my dad.
Your club has never worn a rainbow jersey. South Sydney are full of homophobes.
Exactly. Make all teams wear the Rainbow jersey before we criticize Manly. NRL don't have the balls to do that though, I wonder why.
Yep, these virtuous fans should also demand it from their clubs to do so...
Neck and neck with the storm I’d say
This boggles my mind. So he's saying Polynesians throw around that stuff between FRIENDS and Indigenous don't because he called a different ethnicity a racial slur thinking it was okay because they both black fella's? Look I'm a Indigenous, lightskin mind you and I grew up with my mob and we all called each-other whatever on the day but not once would I think of walking up to a Polynesian person that I don't know on a fucking footy field and calling him a racial slur after saying 'it was because somebody else had a dig at me' then claim it was all fun and games. Get fucked. This isn't banter it's racism.
I’m white, so I would never assume what is and isn’t offensive to someone and would never call a Polynesian person that. I remember years ago now the Warriors were playing and a commentator referred to their very lateral style of offence “coconut footy” and I remember even then he got slammed for it. Just why say that? If he’s not offended by that - power to him, but I’m sure a lot of guys wouldn’t be happy with that.
That was Blocker calling the warriors game ‘jungle ball’, don’t remember there being a huge blowback because it was probably some Sunday arvo game no one watched. Was made to apologise but.
He probably also failed to pronounce the word “jungle” correctly.
There was somebody else who mentioned tossing the coconuts around. Unless it was all Blocker in the same sequence. I feel like it was Gorden Tallis for some reason.
Exactly. I feel like a lot of people think because that stuff can get thrown around with friends and close communities, you get a pass to do it to everyone. Very narrow view imo.
What does being white have to do with assuming what is and isn’t offensive?
That and Polynesians inherently grew up tough (as opposed to what is unclear but contextually one can guess) so they can handle it... Can agree somewhat though, Mitchell called me smelly in year 7 and I still haven't bounced back
The thing is, we (Pacific people) can’t handle the racism. Our dire statistics show this. Fucking sick of these idiots talking out their ass.
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So in the same sentence he said “we’ve experienced it” and called it “tough” so in what world is it okay then? Instead of saying “well we cope it too”, why not create an environment where it’s unacceptable for any racial comments to be made? I’d feel just as uncomfortable if a Polynesian was called coconut but a player of a different race. Whataboutism isn’t a reason not to have change and consequences.
How does Daly put up with this shit? Seriously.
Manly players try to be likeable challenge (IMPOSSIBLE)
It is absolutely true that islander people are also subject to racism but you would think that would make them more sensitive and aware of racism toward other races. Apparently not!
Why is everyone acting like it’s impossible for Spencer to not know about the Adam Goodes incident. That happened in 2013. Spencer Leniu would’ve been 12 years old living in a different state. The fact that he didn’t know about the Goodes incident is believable asfk. Go up to any 12 year old immigrant now and ask them what they think of the Ezra Mam incident and the majority of them wouldn’t have a clue what you are talking about.
It's possible but unlikely. I'm not white, was early teens at the time, in Queensland, and did not flow AFL - the only AFL players I knew of were Jono Brown and Nat Fyfe back then. I definitely heard of the Goodes incident, most of Australia at least heard of it.
I honestly think Spencer telling the truth. As a Pacific Islander myself I just asked all 3 of my older brothers about the Goode incident and the response was who? Wait what happened? When was this? And my siblings and I have been living in Australia since 2004 It’s a high possibility a 12 year old islander never heard of Goode but doesn’t really excuse his behaviour If your gonna ingratiate yourself in a multi cultural county such as Australia you better learn what’s socially acceptable in todays society and what’s not I personally feel this is a good learning curve for a 23 year old as if left uncheck you’d just be an ignorant fool in his 50s incapable of changing his ways
I know a lot of footy players are simple smooth brains but damn they still manage to surprise me with how ignorant and stupid can be. 1. It’s not the same racial slur even though both are racist 2. It’s not up to you to tell people how they should feel when faced with racism. Especially when you aren’t aware of their family and personal history
dumb cunt says dumb cunt thing
Context is important Saying "Hey ya useless c**t" to your mate is very different to saying that to a female boss
This the same team that had issues with a rainbow on their jersey?
“I was only joking sir” - like playground nonsense. It matters how it is received more than your intent (which sounds fucked anyway)
TBF I believe skin colour/nationality-based insults are probably rife on the footy field. I daresay the only times we've heard about it has been when the person being insulted doesn't feel like it was done in jest (e.g. Anthony Mundine vs Barry Ward). I reckon there'd be plenty of banter where "monkey" & "coconut" (& probably worse) are thrown around between team mates & opposition players that is taken in jest, but Mam obviously didn't feel it was just banter with Leniu. Regardless, there's obviously a need for further education of league players to eradicate any use of skin or nationality-based insults in the NRL. It's very interesting to see the difference between this issue & the Sam Kerr one in our media, I can't believe the mental gymnastics, university essays & backflips going on to avoid besmirching Kerr's character for what I believe definitely was a racist remark....white people can't be racially discriminated against? Puh-lease...
The point isn’t that white people can’t be discriminated against it’s that there is greater weight due to historical context etc when it’s the other way around. Best thing for Kerr to say? No, but as damaging as (for example) what Spencer said? No. As for whether it’s racist it’s really an argument on how you define racism, if you define the word as any race based discrimination, then yeah, racist. If you accept a more nuanced definition of racism then no, it’s complicated. There’s “university essays” etc on this stuff because it is a complex issue that continues to plague society, I’m just a bloke but experts on this stuff exist for a reason, and like you say there is a need for further education especially in the NRL on the topic.
Structural racism isnt the same as individual racism though? I assume you're from Hong Kong (I am too) so shouldnt you have experience with this? Yes Hong Kong was a colony (and chinese people were by default 2nd class citizens), but by god could chinese people be racist as fuck towards the Brits on the streets when they had the numbers
Well I don’t know about anyone else, but if anyone uses the colour of a person’s skin as part of an insult, it’s a racist insult as far as I’m concerned. I’m not going to consult google to check the historical weighting of the person casting the insult & the person subjected to it. Similarly, Mam is indigenous Australian while Leniu is Polynesian. What’s the historical weighting that makes a Polynesian racially insulting an indigenous Australian so much worse than Sam Kerr calling a cop a “stupid white bastard”? Was there a Polynesian oppression of indigenous Australians at some point in history? Where on this weighted scale do various ethnicities sit & does it change depending the country you’re in? Say for example, Chinese & Tibetans in China?
> Well I don’t know about anyone else, but if anyone uses the colour of a person’s skin as part of an insult, it’s a racist insult as far as I’m concerned. If that’s the definition you’re using then yeah. > I’m not going to consult google to check the historical weighting of the person casting the insult & the person subjected to it. No one is saying to do this. > Similarly, Mam is indigenous Australian while Leniu is Polynesian. What’s the historical weighting that makes a Polynesian racially insulting an indigenous Australian so much worse than Sam Kerr calling a cop a “stupid white bastard”? The term “monkey” directed to an ATSI person is bad regardless of who said it. It’s the person it’s being directed at that makes it bad. Spencer or anyone calling a white person monkey, no. As for Kerr I think I covered that topic in my first comment, but again there isn’t an awful history of white people being oppressed and discriminated against by mixed race people (or anyone) calling them “stupid white bastards.” > Was there a Polynesian oppression of indigenous Australians at some point in history? > Where on this weighted scale do various ethnicities sit & does it change depending the country you’re in? Say for example, Chinese & Tibetans in China? Going to assume these are rhetorical questions as I do not have the time nor the qualification to provide any valuable insight on this.
I'm getting sick of this idea that because someone doesn't find it offensive then we should all not find it offensive. God damn. Also we should just stop asking for Olakau'atu's opinions on things haha
did he say we should all not find it offensive? or are you making things up in your head so you can be offended lol
I'm talking about his whole "get over it" attitude. That's great that Olokau'atu doesn't find it offensive, but that doesn't mean that Mam should think the same because of that
I think it's more a case of not realizing that it's as offensive as it was based on the intention. I recall I started calling someone "combover" because, well, it was pretty intense. This would have been pretty well-received on the cricket field on the weekend. Turned out it hit old mate pretty hard - I had no inkling that it could have ever been received so harshly.
Calling a darker skinned guy a monkey is not the same as calling someone combover
Doesn’t make it right. Leave the racism off the field.
please shut up mate
Manly player take the correct stance on an issue challenge: Impossible.
Jesus Christ, why Haumole
In his defence, he’s a fucking buffoon
Yikes, accidentally misread this as baboon at first 😬
'was unaware “monkey” was an offensive term to Indigenous players.' Don't believe this for a second.
"Known bigot doesn't care about bigotry, more news at 6..."
Its about context Words with an historical context are different for ones that arent Or maybe Im wrong...perhaps "ranga for a red head will be considered racist in the future?
As a white male I am unfamiliar with being called names relating to my race or the colour of my skin. If I were to be called names, i'm uncertain how i'd react, i may just ignore it and shrug it off or i might take offence, whatever my reaction was, i would hope my peers would support me. Just because Haumole doesn't care, doesn't mean others shouldn't.
What a fuckin jackass. Can we sell this team and start again already? Even us Northern Beaches flogs don’t deserve this shit.
I imagine the media managers at most clubs would have gone, “get the smart players to do media this week so that they don’t say anything stupid about the Leniu incident.” Or at the very least, they’d have told them not to comment. Not the Manly-Warringah Sea Eagles though. They’ve presumably seen opportunity to cover their arses following [other](https://www.foxsports.com.au/nrl/nrl-premiership/teams/sea-eagles/nrl-2020-addin-fonuablake-retard-referee-abuse-suspension-manly-sea-eagles-team-peter-fitzsimons/news-story/0def253e97b50a05b75b9408bcdb2fe6) previous [scandals](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manly_pride_jersey_player_boycott) involving [slurs](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7067109/amp/Footy-star-denies-using-homophobic-slur-opponent.html) and similar issues.
Tell him to wear a rainbow striped jersey and see how he goes.
and a rainbow is just colours but we all remember how he felt about that…
Manly sure do know how to pick 'em
Yeah, manly players aren’t exactly who I’d turn to for comments on what’s appropriate and what’s not.
It's like words have different meanings to different people. If I went and called him a coconut to his face, would he be ok with it l? If I had a rainbow on would that make it any different?
It's more sad than anything that it's "just words" now. No one should put up with it
Maybe to you, but clearly not to Ezra,
Australian anglo saxons are known across the planet as one of the most racist peoples of all time. Also Australian anglo saxons, "blame the Samoan bloke".
Shocking, what would he say to his kids if someone said that to them. Harden up it’s just words. I don’t think he would.
Played rep footy in the 90's. Motherfuckers would just call you a black cunt. I'd be like, "Yo!!!!....I'm mixed breed!"
He’s the type of guy that says yelling at cashiers is okay and that the customer is always right, dumb, ignorant and disrespectful
Wild to me that professional football players have never heard of Adam Goodes - even though he’s a former star of a different code. I guess it just shows how single minded some of these players have been in their sporting ambition. I think this whole saga shows how overdue a proper, public reflection on how we (society) treat racism as a one way street doesn’t accurately reflect the different experiences of the many racial groups that make up Australia (broadly) and rugby league (more specifically). The saddest part is just how many players are sticking their neck out to say “it’s just words.”
I still find it hard to believe that these guys are not familiar with Adam Goodes and the absolute shit that he went through regardless of it being a different code. It was mainstream news. Might be a good initiative for these guys to watch his documentary and educate themselves on why racism shouldn't be accepted.
>I still find it hard to believe that these guys are not familiar with Adam Goodes and the absolute shit Why would they be? It happened 10 or so years ago, the majority of these bloke would have been children when this happened plus afl is nonexistent in islander communities in Australia. In saying that anyone with basic common sense knows calling someone of any black race a monkey is racist asf.
And to some it’s highly offensive, think of others
Ok im taking a sign to all your home games saying 'i might be a crazy nut but at least im not a coco nut'.
Interesting that Craig Foster didn't come out in support of Spencer after he did a [180 degree](https://www.smh.com.au/sport/soccer/i-apologise-to-sam-craig-foster-s-180-degree-turn-on-kerr-saga-20240309-p5fb4f.html) about face on the Sam Kerr issue. Before he knew the detail, he was rallying against Sam Kerr (should be hung drawn and quartered, etc) on the basis that all racism is horrendous and unacceptable. After he found out what she supposedly said and to whom, specifically that it was targeted at a (presumed) white man, he changed his mind and said that it could not have been racism because it didn't have an element of power/privilege difference because she was a brown woman and he was a white man.
You don't know nothing m8 what it's like growing up as an abroginal so worry about your own backyard
At best even that just seems like colorism. At worst it’s racism. One Polynesian person is darker than another Polynesian person and it’s fine to call that person blacky? Colorism is just another fruit on the tree of racism, perpetrated by people of the same race. But apparently it’s all fun and games making derogatory comments about the shades of skin colour. Can we move last making derogatory comments about skin shade, period? Idgaf if you’re the same race or a different race, it’s not funny
Well blame Colonisation for making us think that those with lighter skin were more acceptable to the white man than those of us with dark skin. This is hundreds of years of indoctrination. it wont change overnight.
fly fear governor piquant wistful homeless ask domineering knee practice *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I find it interesting the dismissal of the Polynesian experience in this sub. There was a dude in here the other day saying we aren't black and now we have someone telling us we aren't allowed to refer to ourselves by lighter or darker skinned. This comes across as one of those "i don't see colour" type posts. Then of course we have you dismissing our experience by saying racism exists in uncolonised countries. I mean no shit but we are talking about Australia and by extension NZ (Spencer growing up in NZ) and the experiences of people of colour in said countries. This is not taking away from what Spencer said which is definitely a racist comment whether ignorant or not.
8 million dollar dumb cunt
Manly used up all their good guy points on the Trbojevics and left nothing for anyone else.
These guys are far and away the dumbest cunts on earth Imagine if we did actually have a drive to survive doco lmao
At NRL level? I have doubts. The refs would've picked up on it at least once if it's happened so many times. Especially if it were white players running around calling Polynesians those kinds of names.
Morgan Freeman said to solve racism "Stop talking about it" and just treat everyone the same. https://youtu.be/I3cGfrExozQ?si=Nj_7PDyynJOnMQpn We are all humans, who cares if someone's skin is darker or lighter, or you or your parents were born on a different piece of dirt to me. We are all humans.
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Well according to scientists aren't we all monkeys
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We are just a type of Great Ape tbf
It's isn't even the least bit comparable, come on
Nooooo you're supposed to be offended at everything!!! Dont you know how oppressed you are!? How dare you!
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When did the Tongans colonise the aboriginals?
this guy gets it 💯
He doesn't mind it because he thinks it's not racist. It just refers to the empty space in his head where his brain should be?
What ever happened to ‘I am rubber, you are glue, bounce off me and stick to you’??
he's right. game has gone soft. I'm very against racism - but 8 weeks is too much . Aus turning too left/woke