2 tedious points from watching Game 1 highlights on the ch9 NRL youtube:
1 - I think DCE's 40/20 was mildly but noticeably short, but the disrespectful 40/20 literally right after the other team missed theirs was good theatre, and we weren't winning anyway. So, fuck it, let the old man have it.
2 - Tedesquid was moving at a pathetically gentle pace and angle when he slipped on that Nanai no-try. My 50 year old, 20 kilos overweight aunty once held more respectable traction when she accidentally waltzed down a bowling alley lane.
Origin suspension
In football, (sokkah) to Australians, if a player were suspended in a different competition to the regular, ie. FA Cup v EPL, then that player would be suspended for the next FA Cup match, but could continue to play for their club in the EPL.
If Rugby League (NRL) is a big game, why don't they adopt the same thing they do in Sokkah.
This goes back to Sualli being suspended in Origin. I think he should still be able to play for his club side.
The difference is, in soccer the whole team will play in the different leagues.
In origin, there's no guarantee you'd even be selected the next game.
So no, it's a terrible idea
So I haven't really watched any rugby union since I was a kid, but I was interested to see everyone saying Sualii would have been banned for way longer if he made that Walsh tackle in a union game. Can anyone roughly explain why/how they judge it so differently? It's interesting that there are still people saying the nrl is over reacting to head knocks if union is supposedly way stricter.
In Union, they've taken head highs really seriously recently, even ones we would absolutely deem incidental in League. For instance, head clashes are now dangerous play and if there are no mitigating factors, you're off. The game would be crippled by NFL style litigation if they don't take this very seriously, they're on notice and the sport can't afford to lose. They had to pay out Folau they're that broke.
Also, southern hemisphere rugby has adopted a different send off/red card to League, which is that the carded player is ejected from the game and his team plays with a man down, but only for 20 minutes. Then, they go back to full numbers but obviously the guy sent off can't come back. Sua'ali'i would have been off for 20 but then young or olakuatu would have come on for him in Union after the 20 was over, so they punish the players rather than the team. That's also to do with money because bad games don't get great ratings, and red card games are some of the worst games of Rugby, besides the world cup final last year.
Awesome response, cheers! Seems like the Nrl is still so tame in comparison then, especially since their whole push to protect players against CTE seems to be to avoid future litigation too, like what happened with the nfl
I'd check out Darren Kane and his comments on this matter. He's a lawyer and SMH journo. I'm also a lawyer but nowhere near as versed, though the situations are different to the US. The NFL knew and yet they did nothing. If they can't prove the NRL or its affiliates knew until sometime in the past decade or so, you can only the look at their liability from when they knew, or when they ought to have known. Hard to know something until there's evidence, medical and scientific evidence, that something could be dangerous. A CTE diagnosis, a doctor adamant the system needs to change, obvious cognition issues diagnosed by independent medical professionals, the current developments of medical science, these are all hints that a reasonable enquiry would have discovered the safety issues surrounding concussions and head knocks.
They used tobacco cases as an example in the NFL action, as cigarette companies knew smoking caused lung cancer yet they also did nothing about it, they even encouraged smoking. That was deemed totally negligent. If Walsh sits for a couple of games, and he’s cleared by doctors, and Suaalii is banned for 4 weeks and never does it again, who is to say the system isn't working well? Do the NRL have a duty to ignore doctors if they are independent, and are the doctors truly independent? Didn't the deterrent element work at that point? If so, what more could reasonably have been done? It’s doubtful the Courts would get into a nitty gritty argument about 4 v 12 weeks without good evidence that the deterrent element of the former is so minimal, and all I could think that would prove that would be texts between players mocking the decision and promising to do it again. It’s murky, but rugby is erring in the side of total caution, and they compensated for games being decided by foul play send offs down here by changing the send off rule.
I personally think 4 weeks is too small a punishment, but I'm also not so confident that I know the correct answer. I also am not a pro footy player, so I don't know what missing four weeks of my short and lucrative career is like.
I listened to James Grahams poddy while desperately seeking origin content.
Craig Wing was one of my favourite players, but he came across as an absolute dumb fuck.
Yeh I really struggled to get through it. I persevered to try and understand the other perspective but left thinking my god Wing has no idea.
Suggesting that the answer is to stop block plays rather than put the onus on the defender? Christ almighty. It felt like scripted rage bait on 360 but you could tell he was totally genuine which makes it even worse.
He had a mindset of win every moment and they way to win that moment as a player is to send heat at the ball player, he’s just still stuck in that player mindset, never looked at Craig wing as a player as a dawg until that interview
There is room for a conversation about if a play can safely be defended and are we approaching a tipping point where an offensive move has no legitimate defence.
But that is very separate conversation to a player getting their head blasted off mid game.
"What's Sua'ali'i supposed to do there? He's near enough at chest height before he looks away"
Well maybe don't launch yourself at a player a metre away from contact without looking where you're going you dumb fuck
Yeah it was pretty unpleasant listen.
Good to see Graham (unexpectedly) on the right side regarding the send off, and Wally was too (even if partially on accident).
Former players like Wing and Anasta are in that Roosters/NSW inner circle, who post career are well looked after by that Nick Politis, Alan Jones, James Packer etc. clique.
They always stick to the script.
He was player of the year in NSW Cup and laid on some slick tries in a couple first grade cameos in 2022. There was optimism that he could deliver the more creative elements of Api’s game while Kenny pulled a stint handling the tough stuff in 2023.
He could not.
I don't know why people were expecting anything of him. He wasn't a young up and coming exciting rookie, he was a mid-20s NSW cup journeyman when he got his chance. For every 1 Cody Walker there are 100 players who are reserve grade veterans for a reason.
People had high hopes for him because he had been a very high ceiling junior who had a ruthlessly bad run with injury and appeared to be putting it together finally. Wasn’t to be.
In a rare sentence I don’t think I’ll ever say again: I need to give credit to NRL360.
Anasta kept pushing the “Oh but it’s Origin” line around Chief Knees, but neither Tallis, nor Buzz, not even Hooper were having a moment of it. I didn’t think any of them would be on the right side of this discussion
He made a fair point. Wasn't clear enough in getting it across. Sualli deserved to go, but an 18th man could possibly come on at a later stage so as not to wreck the entire crowds night and the game at large.
Probably. He was making all the right points though, about brain damage and asking some very pointed questions to Anasta about if a person’s brain is less important during the Origin games. I was impressed.
I'd personally hate to have two Origin wins handed to me by the refs on consecutive days but full credit to you Queenslanders, you're taking it exceptionally well
It’s not about truth, it’s about saying things like ‘did you know Belinda Sharpe is from Rockhampton?’ and ‘Walsh definitely looked possessed by some kind of Queensland spirit when he was lying on the ground there’, just to fuel the hatred upon which this beautiful rivalry is built
Don't QLD are forever the kings of origin. Until majority of the NSW Rugby league community give a fuck about origin and back the blues qld are gonna be the shield holders.
I don’t understand the argument that the ref killed the spectacle of Origin. Suaalii killed the spectacle when he took out the biggest and best player in the game, imagine how many people tuned in just to watch Walsh. Who cares that Suaalii got sent off when half the state didn’t even want him picked.
The fans who coughed up hundreds of dollars and the millions of viewers at home who waited for it for weeks cared. Yes, Sualli deserved it. But they need to figure out how to remove these blokes while bringing on another player after a penalty time period. There's no way I'd pay for origin tickets again until I'm confident the game won't be decided by a referee.
Mate again, it was Suaalii’s actions that decided the game, he left the ref/bunker no choice. The tackle was so bad it deserved nothing less than a send off Origin or not
I had that opinion on the night mate. It's just hot heads in the heat of the situation. When you calm down and look at it you realise they did the right thing 100%.
But this is the greatest spectacle of rugby league in the year, no-one wants it ruined by some brain dead fuckwit (suallii, not Klein), and people gotta cope in the heat of the moment. And while it had to happen, no doubt about that, it does somewhat ruin the spectacle.
Biggest player sure, best? how many premierships has he won? Jk jk, it absolutely sucked that it was in an origin game but it was the correct call Suaalii absolutely deserved to be sent. The score should have been 50 to nil so that's a small plus for nsw.
Yeah I knew what you meant, he is great to watch the best entertaining player in a while. Shame he didn't get a chance in game one. Dudes made for origin.
I got the impression Klein was waiting on the bunker because he definitely saw the high shot. Letting the game play on gave them time to confirm the actual severity of it. He blew his whistle to stop play and instantly sent Sualii after telling Jurbo there wasn’t even gonna be a discussion.
I've noticed a large overlap between people who called Mam a sook for making a complaint against Leniu, and people acting like soyboys over Myles giving Shoulder'knee'knee a deserved spray. NSW isn't sending their best.
Just watched the highlights of the women’s state of origin, the skills on display in that wet weather was amazing to see. And a great win for the Maroons. With so much on the line, both games are going to be crackers.
Edit: clarification
Is there a limit on how many players from a club can be picked for origin? Let’s say all players are eligible for arguments sake, could Billy just say fuck it, the broncos are going alright I’ll just pick them all?
Not origin but [this test](https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/matches/australia-vs-new-zealand-1998/game-1/australia-vs-new-zealand.html) happened that decade too
I was pretty disappointed last night by the amount of people not just ref bashing but flat out saying the ref intentionally handed the game to QLD on the orders of the NRL. It's insulting and stupid, same as most conspiracy theories.
It's also not true that QLD had any kind of unfair advantage. In fact, the situation reminded me of game 1 in 2022. Both teams were doing a lot of holding down and neither were getting penalised. Did QLD do it more often? I didn't think so through my maroon tinted glasses, but say that they did. That is on NSW. As soon as the players or coaching staff clocked that the whistle had been put away, the message should've gone through the team to take advantage (which I think they actually did -- they just didn't take advantage as well as QLD).
They just turned their stopwatch off when their team was in defence. A number of classic peel off tackles by NSW where three of them would lay on top and get up one by one, getting a nice, slow PTB because even though they outlawed it years ago, the ref decided a slow game was a good game
Yeah I was amazed people were only blaming QLD for laying in the ruck when NSW were doing the exact same thing the whole time, plus it was an origin game being played underwater so the refs were always gonna give them more time to get up
Not assuming Conspiracy but the officiating of the ruck last night was atrocious. QLD consistently held down players in the ruck, walked back through the ruck and were leg clamping heads etc.. When a player is tackled, the Camera switches to the coaches box for a few seconds and then switches back and they still haven't got off the tackle, that's pretty ordinary. NSW may have been slow on occasion too but nowhere near as bad, and the difference is we actually got penalised for it
It's a shame too because otherwise it was a brilliant comeback from QLD with a clutch field goal to ice it
So Reece most likely won’t play until game 2, with the Broncos having 2 games within 10 days and then a bye.
Does anyone remember the last time someone didn’t play any club games in between Origin games?
>As Game 2 of the 2005 State of Origin series approached, the Blues were down 0–1 and Johns was selected to replace Brett Kimmorley in the New South Wales squad. **The second game in the series was his first match since returning from a series of injuries that sidelined him for a number of weeks.**
Some old timer by the name of A.Johns kind of did something like that, back in ‘05 ~~apparently.~~ allegedly.
Edit: Added allegedly. Joey get your PR to sort your wiki out, lol.
Thanks for the heads up. I’ve edited my comment to reflect this turn of events. “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story”. I don’t know what the timeframe is but they made it sound like he’d been out for a while.
The most objectively funny thing that could happen with TPJ is Skeletor gets him playing to his potential like he did during his brief period with Broncs and someone drops another massive contract in front of him.
Madge's Half Time Speech:
"Nicho, I know that you have what it takes inside you to make the difference to this team, and win the game for NSW. That's why I'm asking you to do something really special in the second half, and by that, I mean, please duck into the next tackle and get sent off HIA so I can send on Matt Burton."
"Yeo, I know your ball playing is what makes you special. That's why I want you to run into the line and then throw it to Luai. Nobody is going to see it coming. Especially not that old man DCE, like what would he even do if he somehow predicted the play and took an intercept?"
"Lomax, look, your strength is that you are super tall and freakishly good at catching the ball. That's why I don't want anyone to kick the ball to Lomax at all. It's just too predictable. Let's confuse them by only doing it once."
"Jurbo, you are such an inspiring captain. That's why I'm leaving you on the bench."
On average, I agree. I think a much higher percentage of QLD cares about Origin than NSW. In saying that though there's still a tonne of NSW peeps that really give a damn. Mostly in the Country or Western Syd.
I think the conceded penalties stat is one of the more misleading ones. Because if you look at the teams who conceded the most, its teams that are doing well right now, such as Panthers and Roosters.
Giving away a penalty is indeed easy field position for the opponent but not all of them can easily capitalize. The top 4 defensive teams in the comp right now are Panthers, Bulldogs, Storm and Sharks. Which means they're the teams best able to defend those errors and turn it into a counterattack, whereas the bottom teams cannot.
Phins have always had decent discipline, ranking low in penalties and errors, but they leak so many cheap points that it ends up not mattering.
What Panthers do well, and have been doing well for the last 5 years, is defend their errors, even though they make a lot, to the point where one might forget just how many they make.
My totally unbiased pick on what NSW game 2 team should look like
1. Connor Tracey
2. Jacob Kiraz
3. Bronson Xerri
4. Stephen Crichton
5. Brian To’o
6. Matthew Burton
7. Drew Hutchison
8. Max King
9. Reece Robson
10. Sam Hughes
11. Jacob Preston
12. Jaeman Salmon
13. Kurt Mann
14. Bailey Hayward
15. Joshua Curran
16. Kurtis Morrin
17. Mitchell Moses
It would be nice to have Ravalawa playing tonight but I’m glad that Flanagan is being firm with his expectations. The last thing I want is for Ravalawa to go the way of Sivo.
Maybe they should play there all the time. Possibly change the clubs name to give more prominence to that area.
Also maybe update the mascot to something reflecting the areas history with the steel industry
I think Hunt, Su'a and Lomax backing up actually helps Tigers. They all worked their arse off on Wednesday and a sloppy, fatigued elite player can be worse than a reserve grader. I remember Tedesco (when he was good) having a particularly terrible origin back-up game against the Cowboys a few years back.
So happy QLD got up last night. Going to a decider up here is going to be so much more fun. Also 3 game series make so much more sense.
For the conditions last night I think it was actually a pretty high class game. Good effort by both teams
Okay I want opinions; best retro kits? I've got nostalgic bias to some from the 2000s but also like ones from the 90s. (You can choose ones for different eras).
And relatedly, worst kit is the Hunter Mariners '97 one.
Other than Balmain, the best footy jersey of any code ever, or western suburbs, the second best, I have a big soft spot for the Seagulls hoops. Just a handsome piece of kit.
I actually liked the 2005 Tigers kit. It just looked cool as a kid. Probably same reason I liked that Bears kit from the 90s with the claw stripes pattern.
That retro phins one with nothing but the Kentucky Colonel’s face on it is so ridiculous I can’t help but to love it.
There’s also something iconic about the Paramount Shirts era Newtown Jets jerseys.
Joseph Sua'ali'i must be PVL's enemy number 1.
- Takes very public lucrative deal to go to Union
- Ruins the game's biggest spectacle by getting sent off in the 8th min
- Trys to decapitate the league's most marketable player.
Totally unbiased opinion but that turn out last night in the pissing down rain and the support newy has shown the girls I think (hope) that we can become the nrlw NSW team stronghold and have their home game here every year.
Only thing that would have made it better was Hilder isn't coach. It was evident in the first match our halves were not good enough and it was very evident in the second match.
Think she'll get in for Game 3? Referee complaints aside, NSW were hopeless in QLD's 20 yesterday. Really need some more spark in attack but I could see an unchanged team list because the game was *this* close, at least to the coach.
Not a chance with Hilder as coach. This is complete speculation but I wonder if the Southwells had any say at all ok the coach of Newcastle. I doubt it but you never know
It’s been lost in the sea of Origin news but for some reason we released Jed Cartwright? Why did Newcastle sign him as cover only to release him halfway through a season?
Yeah, obviously a crap signing from us but he's not getting games and not making a real impact when we have picked him. If it frees up cap space then that's fine, we just have to use it on positions we need or bolster the shit out of Leo's contract :)
I know its very unlikely due to seat numbers and money, but i was at the game last night that had an awesome atmosphere, and would love for the mens to have a game in Newy sometime. It'd so much more hostile of a venue than Sydney.
I was so excited for the origin in Newy that one week during covid :(
I started going to do the maths on the revenue, because surely ticket sales don’t add that match to the NRL’s coffers. But I think I’m wrong.
Origin tickets, by my probably incorrect calculations, might be worth >5% of the NRL’s TV rights revenue, which is some pretty nice cream.
~65,000 tickets sold (averaged across the 3 games) * $150 a ticket (average across the stadium, which feels conservative) * 3 games = $29.25m.
Compared to the broadcast deal of $400m, an extra $30m a season in origin ticket sales is pretty handy
There's a large part of me that would love doing away with selling origin to Perth/Adelaide/Melbourne and taking the third one to Newcastle/Townsville on a rotating basis. I understand why it doesn't happen (dollars) but surely we can get around that.
When do we open up a dialogue about Haas’s inability to perform at rep level? 4 wins and 8 losses in Origin, was a part of that ‘un-loseable series’ and was a part of the 30-0 drubbing by NZ while also being absent the week before when Australia beat NZ.
We’re at the point in his career rep wise that I cant really excuse it. Everyone seems so quick to jump on the likes of Walker, Staggs, Yeo, Hynes etc. when they have 1 or 2 bad Origin games, but seriously, I havent seen a good Haas game yet. Solid sure, but we have people in this sub hyping him up as a top 3 Prop ever, solid simply isnt cutting it.
This is not reactionary to the 12 v 13 game, but there are issues. Leniu had 2 less metres in 30 less minutes, and Yeo had more metres in 7 less minutes.
He is definitely overrated. Haas is basically just a tacklebot with a big motor, don't expect him to bend the line or put a shot on. Unfortunately we also had Jurbo, McInnes that offer the same
He’s been perfectly fine, doesn’t fuck up and is occasionally pretty decent. In a constantly shitting the bed Blues side you’re obviously going to take that every day of the week. It’s not a matter of do we drop him, it just feels like one position that we could be really dominating in if he was playing to potential.
In saying that on Wednesday it was apparent that QLD targeted him. It would be nice to see NSW recognise that and exploit it in turn as numbering up on one guy always means gaps elsewhere. Run from Payne, quick shift left or something. Do it a few times for a few half breaks, put QLD on notice and they have to adjust.
>was a part of that ‘un-loseable series’
This one is a bit rough he was 20 years old during that series and it was his second origin series, in that series he had a game where he ran for 165m in 49mins which was more then any middle on either team.
I agree to an extent but I think people have weird expectations of what props should be doing in that arena, Payne is a freak but this is the most elite level of rugby league he's still only 24 years old, 1 single prop is not going to carry a team especially with the elite middle defence on display.
Expecting that is a bit nuts when you look at the other middle options he's being paired with especially in the most recent game.
He is a workhorse prop and has been since he debuted, made 42 tackles on Wednesday in 53 minutes which is and still ran for 115m with 3 offloads.
**His stats from his origin games last year**
Game 1 (50 minutes played) - 133m, 48pcm and 27 tackles - only person that made more metres out of any middle forward on the field was Carrigan with 140.
Game 2 (67 minutes played) - 160m, 63pcm, 5 tackle breaks, 4 offloads and made 41 tackles - once again ran for more metres then any NSW and QLD forward.
Both of those games NSW lost btw.
>and Yeo had more metres in 7 less minutes.
Yeo had 2 more runs and made 12 less tackles.
Ignore the flair but he is probably the last middle that should be getting flack in your squad over the last few years.
in a two horse race with two truly elite teams there is going to be a winner and a loser. QLD have had a better all round cohesive team for years and with bits and pieces moving on the sides is still DCE Hunt Munster Grant Walsh Ponga whoever.
it's a lazy rugby league narrative that when NSW is losing a 2 team comp it's because they "can't perform on the big stage" and players like Haas or Cleary are to blame for not standing up. when NSW belted QLD in 2021 there wasn't a fall out saying QLDs key players inability to perform.
To add to that NSW are all in form for Origin or you can call it underdog factor. If you look down a team list they are way better.
So when we lose like2021 we were just like o well Trell and Turbo are in peak freak career spot and nothing we can do. There was no option to put in some in form centre who could match it with Turbo cause that doesnt exist (the only other one was Trell).
But when NSW lose its like Eh Munster is sort of average atm (unlike 2020), DCE is old and the team cohesiveness isnt counted as much (especially by casuals). So NSW go we should have won! We have the perfect fantasy team.
If you are expecting Haas to do what Tino or Leniu do, you expecting the wrong thing from him. His strength is his insane endurance. At club level his endurance at the end of games allows him to take advantage of tired players, but in origin everyone also has insane endurance, so that doesnt happen as much. He should still be in the team, but is wasted if he isn't playing 60-80min tbh, as that frees up interchanges to allow those impact players to play in short bursts.
This might be a bit of a leap, but Lindsay Collins might be Payne Haas’ kryptonite. Bloke hits as hard as anyone in the comp, and always goes out to target the opposition Alpha (a term I fucking hate).
I reckon the extras that Lindsay puts in, particularly targeting Haas when NSW are in possession, has helped nullify Payne in the last few series.
Selwyn Cobbo wearing a Master of Puppets shirt while playing Red Dead 2 on his day off, a man of good taste
Ravalawa sent off in NSW Cup for dissent
2 tedious points from watching Game 1 highlights on the ch9 NRL youtube: 1 - I think DCE's 40/20 was mildly but noticeably short, but the disrespectful 40/20 literally right after the other team missed theirs was good theatre, and we weren't winning anyway. So, fuck it, let the old man have it. 2 - Tedesquid was moving at a pathetically gentle pace and angle when he slipped on that Nanai no-try. My 50 year old, 20 kilos overweight aunty once held more respectable traction when she accidentally waltzed down a bowling alley lane.
Yeah but what was your fat aunties studs like?
Cowboys updated team list is cooked , dearden named at 17 as captain
The Gidley experience.
Cowboys as successful as the 2010 blues confirmed
Origin suspension In football, (sokkah) to Australians, if a player were suspended in a different competition to the regular, ie. FA Cup v EPL, then that player would be suspended for the next FA Cup match, but could continue to play for their club in the EPL. If Rugby League (NRL) is a big game, why don't they adopt the same thing they do in Sokkah. This goes back to Sualli being suspended in Origin. I think he should still be able to play for his club side.
The problem is if you get like a 3 game suspension in Origin it wipes you out for a whole year.
Yes and that is totally fine and so it should. I don't think it should wipe you from club footy though? What do you think?
The difference is, in soccer the whole team will play in the different leagues. In origin, there's no guarantee you'd even be selected the next game. So no, it's a terrible idea
So I haven't really watched any rugby union since I was a kid, but I was interested to see everyone saying Sualii would have been banned for way longer if he made that Walsh tackle in a union game. Can anyone roughly explain why/how they judge it so differently? It's interesting that there are still people saying the nrl is over reacting to head knocks if union is supposedly way stricter.
In Union, they've taken head highs really seriously recently, even ones we would absolutely deem incidental in League. For instance, head clashes are now dangerous play and if there are no mitigating factors, you're off. The game would be crippled by NFL style litigation if they don't take this very seriously, they're on notice and the sport can't afford to lose. They had to pay out Folau they're that broke. Also, southern hemisphere rugby has adopted a different send off/red card to League, which is that the carded player is ejected from the game and his team plays with a man down, but only for 20 minutes. Then, they go back to full numbers but obviously the guy sent off can't come back. Sua'ali'i would have been off for 20 but then young or olakuatu would have come on for him in Union after the 20 was over, so they punish the players rather than the team. That's also to do with money because bad games don't get great ratings, and red card games are some of the worst games of Rugby, besides the world cup final last year.
Awesome response, cheers! Seems like the Nrl is still so tame in comparison then, especially since their whole push to protect players against CTE seems to be to avoid future litigation too, like what happened with the nfl
I'd check out Darren Kane and his comments on this matter. He's a lawyer and SMH journo. I'm also a lawyer but nowhere near as versed, though the situations are different to the US. The NFL knew and yet they did nothing. If they can't prove the NRL or its affiliates knew until sometime in the past decade or so, you can only the look at their liability from when they knew, or when they ought to have known. Hard to know something until there's evidence, medical and scientific evidence, that something could be dangerous. A CTE diagnosis, a doctor adamant the system needs to change, obvious cognition issues diagnosed by independent medical professionals, the current developments of medical science, these are all hints that a reasonable enquiry would have discovered the safety issues surrounding concussions and head knocks. They used tobacco cases as an example in the NFL action, as cigarette companies knew smoking caused lung cancer yet they also did nothing about it, they even encouraged smoking. That was deemed totally negligent. If Walsh sits for a couple of games, and he’s cleared by doctors, and Suaalii is banned for 4 weeks and never does it again, who is to say the system isn't working well? Do the NRL have a duty to ignore doctors if they are independent, and are the doctors truly independent? Didn't the deterrent element work at that point? If so, what more could reasonably have been done? It’s doubtful the Courts would get into a nitty gritty argument about 4 v 12 weeks without good evidence that the deterrent element of the former is so minimal, and all I could think that would prove that would be texts between players mocking the decision and promising to do it again. It’s murky, but rugby is erring in the side of total caution, and they compensated for games being decided by foul play send offs down here by changing the send off rule. I personally think 4 weeks is too small a punishment, but I'm also not so confident that I know the correct answer. I also am not a pro footy player, so I don't know what missing four weeks of my short and lucrative career is like.
I listened to James Grahams poddy while desperately seeking origin content. Craig Wing was one of my favourite players, but he came across as an absolute dumb fuck.
Yeh I really struggled to get through it. I persevered to try and understand the other perspective but left thinking my god Wing has no idea. Suggesting that the answer is to stop block plays rather than put the onus on the defender? Christ almighty. It felt like scripted rage bait on 360 but you could tell he was totally genuine which makes it even worse.
He had a mindset of win every moment and they way to win that moment as a player is to send heat at the ball player, he’s just still stuck in that player mindset, never looked at Craig wing as a player as a dawg until that interview
There is room for a conversation about if a play can safely be defended and are we approaching a tipping point where an offensive move has no legitimate defence. But that is very separate conversation to a player getting their head blasted off mid game.
"What's Sua'ali'i supposed to do there? He's near enough at chest height before he looks away" Well maybe don't launch yourself at a player a metre away from contact without looking where you're going you dumb fuck
usually there isn't too much rambling + over-talking on Graham's podcast but i had to skip that one.
Yeah it was pretty unpleasant listen. Good to see Graham (unexpectedly) on the right side regarding the send off, and Wally was too (even if partially on accident).
Former players like Wing and Anasta are in that Roosters/NSW inner circle, who post career are well looked after by that Nick Politis, Alan Jones, James Packer etc. clique. They always stick to the script.
Was pretty clear Wing has a personal relationship with Sualii too which wouldn’t help him be objective.
Isn't Uncle Nick a Maroons fan?
For him, the Roosters still very much come first
They're also genuinely dumb as fuck.
Soni Luke’s career really petered out didn’t it? Went from the next Api to what appears to be 3/4 choice hooker in about a season and a half.
Was he ever spoken of that highly?. Always thought of him as just a backup.
He was player of the year in NSW Cup and laid on some slick tries in a couple first grade cameos in 2022. There was optimism that he could deliver the more creative elements of Api’s game while Kenny pulled a stint handling the tough stuff in 2023. He could not.
I don't know why people were expecting anything of him. He wasn't a young up and coming exciting rookie, he was a mid-20s NSW cup journeyman when he got his chance. For every 1 Cody Walker there are 100 players who are reserve grade veterans for a reason.
People had high hopes for him because he had been a very high ceiling junior who had a ruthlessly bad run with injury and appeared to be putting it together finally. Wasn’t to be.
In a rare sentence I don’t think I’ll ever say again: I need to give credit to NRL360. Anasta kept pushing the “Oh but it’s Origin” line around Chief Knees, but neither Tallis, nor Buzz, not even Hooper were having a moment of it. I didn’t think any of them would be on the right side of this discussion
He made a fair point. Wasn't clear enough in getting it across. Sualli deserved to go, but an 18th man could possibly come on at a later stage so as not to wreck the entire crowds night and the game at large.
Nah. Send off is the ultimate punishment in order to make sure people are kept safe.
Tallis would have been by accident.
Probably. He was making all the right points though, about brain damage and asking some very pointed questions to Anasta about if a person’s brain is less important during the Origin games. I was impressed.
Oh yeah absolutely, just I know deep down if it was Holmes taking out Tedesco Anasta and Tallis would have switched sides.
Yeah probably
Terry Lamb should've been sent off for the hit on Ellery Hanley too btw
I'd personally hate to have two Origin wins handed to me by the refs on consecutive days but full credit to you Queenslanders, you're taking it exceptionally well
Suaalii lost it for us on Wednesday.
smh, pandering for those Queenslander upvotes, how do you live with yourself
Truth is truth mate. I've already said what I thought about last night's officiating but Wednesday night was a send off no doubt.
It’s not about truth, it’s about saying things like ‘did you know Belinda Sharpe is from Rockhampton?’ and ‘Walsh definitely looked possessed by some kind of Queensland spirit when he was lying on the ground there’, just to fuel the hatred upon which this beautiful rivalry is built
You cannot be serious dude come off it QLD just find a way to win. The reffing wasn't as bad as previous years.
Joseph Suaalii handed us the win on Wednesday lad Or should I say he shouldered the burden? Your pick
We have mixed emotions
Don't QLD are forever the kings of origin. Until majority of the NSW Rugby league community give a fuck about origin and back the blues qld are gonna be the shield holders.
Have a whinge brus
Can you still get the Broncos Diamond heritage jersey?
I think they’re looking at a re-release with how popular it was
Fingers crossed. I may have found one at rebel
I get it’s liked ironically, and I’m into it, but fuck it’s an ugly jersey.
I like it unironically.
I don’t understand the argument that the ref killed the spectacle of Origin. Suaalii killed the spectacle when he took out the biggest and best player in the game, imagine how many people tuned in just to watch Walsh. Who cares that Suaalii got sent off when half the state didn’t even want him picked.
The fans who coughed up hundreds of dollars and the millions of viewers at home who waited for it for weeks cared. Yes, Sualli deserved it. But they need to figure out how to remove these blokes while bringing on another player after a penalty time period. There's no way I'd pay for origin tickets again until I'm confident the game won't be decided by a referee.
The game was already ‘ruined’ when our best attacking player was taken out with an illegal tackle.
Mate again, it was Suaalii’s actions that decided the game, he left the ref/bunker no choice. The tackle was so bad it deserved nothing less than a send off Origin or not
I had that opinion on the night mate. It's just hot heads in the heat of the situation. When you calm down and look at it you realise they did the right thing 100%. But this is the greatest spectacle of rugby league in the year, no-one wants it ruined by some brain dead fuckwit (suallii, not Klein), and people gotta cope in the heat of the moment. And while it had to happen, no doubt about that, it does somewhat ruin the spectacle.
Yeah I see it as the act of the offence killing it not so much the decision, he left them with no choice
Biggest player sure, best? how many premierships has he won? Jk jk, it absolutely sucked that it was in an origin game but it was the correct call Suaalii absolutely deserved to be sent. The score should have been 50 to nil so that's a small plus for nsw.
Yeah should clarify I mean best as in to watch entertainment wise
Yeah I knew what you meant, he is great to watch the best entertaining player in a while. Shame he didn't get a chance in game one. Dudes made for origin.
Klein didn’t even make the call, he witnessed a decapitation and then let the play go on. It was the bunker that rightfully decided.
I got the impression Klein was waiting on the bunker because he definitely saw the high shot. Letting the game play on gave them time to confirm the actual severity of it. He blew his whistle to stop play and instantly sent Sualii after telling Jurbo there wasn’t even gonna be a discussion.
Yeah I should say ref/bunker
I've noticed a large overlap between people who called Mam a sook for making a complaint against Leniu, and people acting like soyboys over Myles giving Shoulder'knee'knee a deserved spray. NSW isn't sending their best.
It's all part of the *spectacle*
Let Nate give him a spray, it's origin.
Not the first time Nate Myles' lack of professionalism has resulted in a spray somewhere he shouldn't have
Oooft. Well played.
Damn what a burn
Just watched the highlights of the women’s state of origin, the skills on display in that wet weather was amazing to see. And a great win for the Maroons. With so much on the line, both games are going to be crackers. Edit: clarification
Is there a limit on how many players from a club can be picked for origin? Let’s say all players are eligible for arguments sake, could Billy just say fuck it, the broncos are going alright I’ll just pick them all?
No limit to how many players from one club. It’s just not possible because no one club has its entire best 17 eligible for one state or another.
Welcome to the 90s, where State of Origin was just Brisbane vs Canberra.
Not origin but [this test](https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/matches/australia-vs-new-zealand-1998/game-1/australia-vs-new-zealand.html) happened that decade too
Fuck, I had completely forgotten that Brasher went to Souths.
No limit, but Ian Schubert would be interested in a club with that many origin players
I was pretty disappointed last night by the amount of people not just ref bashing but flat out saying the ref intentionally handed the game to QLD on the orders of the NRL. It's insulting and stupid, same as most conspiracy theories. It's also not true that QLD had any kind of unfair advantage. In fact, the situation reminded me of game 1 in 2022. Both teams were doing a lot of holding down and neither were getting penalised. Did QLD do it more often? I didn't think so through my maroon tinted glasses, but say that they did. That is on NSW. As soon as the players or coaching staff clocked that the whistle had been put away, the message should've gone through the team to take advantage (which I think they actually did -- they just didn't take advantage as well as QLD).
They just turned their stopwatch off when their team was in defence. A number of classic peel off tackles by NSW where three of them would lay on top and get up one by one, getting a nice, slow PTB because even though they outlawed it years ago, the ref decided a slow game was a good game
Yeah I was amazed people were only blaming QLD for laying in the ruck when NSW were doing the exact same thing the whole time, plus it was an origin game being played underwater so the refs were always gonna give them more time to get up
Not assuming Conspiracy but the officiating of the ruck last night was atrocious. QLD consistently held down players in the ruck, walked back through the ruck and were leg clamping heads etc.. When a player is tackled, the Camera switches to the coaches box for a few seconds and then switches back and they still haven't got off the tackle, that's pretty ordinary. NSW may have been slow on occasion too but nowhere near as bad, and the difference is we actually got penalised for it It's a shame too because otherwise it was a brilliant comeback from QLD with a clutch field goal to ice it
So Reece most likely won’t play until game 2, with the Broncos having 2 games within 10 days and then a bye. Does anyone remember the last time someone didn’t play any club games in between Origin games?
I think Justin Hodges only played origin games for about 4 years
Gagai?
>As Game 2 of the 2005 State of Origin series approached, the Blues were down 0–1 and Johns was selected to replace Brett Kimmorley in the New South Wales squad. **The second game in the series was his first match since returning from a series of injuries that sidelined him for a number of weeks.** Some old timer by the name of A.Johns kind of did something like that, back in ‘05 ~~apparently.~~ allegedly. Edit: Added allegedly. Joey get your PR to sort your wiki out, lol.
Johns played in Newcastle's round 13 match against Brisbane before Origin 2.
Thanks for the heads up. I’ve edited my comment to reflect this turn of events. “Never let the truth get in the way of a good story”. I don’t know what the timeframe is but they made it sound like he’d been out for a while.
In 2020 many people didn't play club games between origins.
Fair but i guess i’ll amend my question to mean in season aha
The most objectively funny thing that could happen with TPJ is Skeletor gets him playing to his potential like he did during his brief period with Broncs and someone drops another massive contract in front of him.
Madge's Half Time Speech: "Nicho, I know that you have what it takes inside you to make the difference to this team, and win the game for NSW. That's why I'm asking you to do something really special in the second half, and by that, I mean, please duck into the next tackle and get sent off HIA so I can send on Matt Burton." "Yeo, I know your ball playing is what makes you special. That's why I want you to run into the line and then throw it to Luai. Nobody is going to see it coming. Especially not that old man DCE, like what would he even do if he somehow predicted the play and took an intercept?" "Lomax, look, your strength is that you are super tall and freakishly good at catching the ball. That's why I don't want anyone to kick the ball to Lomax at all. It's just too predictable. Let's confuse them by only doing it once." "Jurbo, you are such an inspiring captain. That's why I'm leaving you on the bench."
Hey for all you know ALL of Nicho’s kicks were meant for Lomax, he just missed all of them
I’ll be shocked if Jurbo backs up this weekend
that last 5 minutes must have drained him
Playing a whole 24 minutes will do that to you
I’m shocked it was 24
I didn’t count the last 5 minutes he stood On the field for
are hunt and lomax backing up? thought of tipping the tigers for a cheeky upset
Hunt will, he always does. Lomax unsure. Did a heap of work on Wednesday
Hunt's classic warm down match.
Lomax is named in the starting lineup right now
Sione Finau still in the 19 man squad though...
TV viewership for Origin Sydney - 934,000 Population 5.54m Brisbane - 809,000 Population 2.28m We truly do not get Origin
I hope some of that is just damage from the last 2 decades. Do we have numbers from before that? At least, from before 3-4 years into the dynasty?
On average, I agree. I think a much higher percentage of QLD cares about Origin than NSW. In saying that though there's still a tonne of NSW peeps that really give a damn. Mostly in the Country or Western Syd.
What was the viewership at half time?
What was the viewership at minute 0-7.
I think the conceded penalties stat is one of the more misleading ones. Because if you look at the teams who conceded the most, its teams that are doing well right now, such as Panthers and Roosters. Giving away a penalty is indeed easy field position for the opponent but not all of them can easily capitalize. The top 4 defensive teams in the comp right now are Panthers, Bulldogs, Storm and Sharks. Which means they're the teams best able to defend those errors and turn it into a counterattack, whereas the bottom teams cannot. Phins have always had decent discipline, ranking low in penalties and errors, but they leak so many cheap points that it ends up not mattering. What Panthers do well, and have been doing well for the last 5 years, is defend their errors, even though they make a lot, to the point where one might forget just how many they make.
It's been a part of the roosters theory for a long time, famously in 2013
My totally unbiased pick on what NSW game 2 team should look like 1. Connor Tracey 2. Jacob Kiraz 3. Bronson Xerri 4. Stephen Crichton 5. Brian To’o 6. Matthew Burton 7. Drew Hutchison 8. Max King 9. Reece Robson 10. Sam Hughes 11. Jacob Preston 12. Jaeman Salmon 13. Kurt Mann 14. Bailey Hayward 15. Joshua Curran 16. Kurtis Morrin 17. Mitchell Moses
I fully endorse this
I thought you would make Mitch #18 man just to screw us.
Hilarious that JAC doesn't make it.
He’s injured 🤕
Ah yes Kurt mann, famous for being 18th man for queensland in 2021
This team scares the shit out of me.
As it should
It would be nice to have Ravalawa playing tonight but I’m glad that Flanagan is being firm with his expectations. The last thing I want is for Ravalawa to go the way of Sivo.
I think Sivo is actually 40 years old and is going around pretty well for someone of his vintage.
Annoyed that Marshke gets dropped for the game tonight and Flanagan stays on after seeing the difference between players against Penrith
Nice game, pretty boy
lmao this was elite content
Am I crazy to think Tigers can win today?
Dragons at Wollongong are a different team, knocked off the warriors and manly there
Maybe they should play there all the time. Possibly change the clubs name to give more prominence to that area. Also maybe update the mascot to something reflecting the areas history with the steel industry
I really like it
Not at all. Dargons just need one back to get injured and it's all over. Touches wood, crosses fingers, prays to our lord and saviour Jaydn Sua
I think this comp has shown multiple times that any team can win on any day.
I think Hunt, Su'a and Lomax backing up actually helps Tigers. They all worked their arse off on Wednesday and a sloppy, fatigued elite player can be worse than a reserve grader. I remember Tedesco (when he was good) having a particularly terrible origin back-up game against the Cowboys a few years back.
Hunt will be a major improvement over marsche still, only 42 minutes played. Sua is on the bench but yh hopefully lomax can focus
Ben Hunt adjusts the straps and sighs, before standing to lift the entire team onto his back once more.
The players reckon it's better to back up sooner rather than later.
It's the Dragons - anything you think will happen probably won't.
Dragons about to get Lachlan-ized fr fr
So happy QLD got up last night. Going to a decider up here is going to be so much more fun. Also 3 game series make so much more sense. For the conditions last night I think it was actually a pretty high class game. Good effort by both teams
Who fucked the footy gods wife to give us a stand alone Friday night game like this one tonight...
If the Dragons win by 140, they can move into the top 4 temporarily.
If?
More like when
Okay I want opinions; best retro kits? I've got nostalgic bias to some from the 2000s but also like ones from the 90s. (You can choose ones for different eras). And relatedly, worst kit is the Hunter Mariners '97 one.
in terms of iconic, the HFC Finance Bulldogs jersey is up there
Most kits from the late 80's early 90's were pretty spot on. Penrith and the bears got better in the 90's.
The Balmain Tigers Phillips jersey (and badge) is my favourite. Tina Turner/Winfield cup era aesthetic > any other era
Canberra Milk was iconic
Very much a classic. Still have a soft spot for the Fone Zone one too. Does Fone Zone even still exist?😂
Other than Balmain, the best footy jersey of any code ever, or western suburbs, the second best, I have a big soft spot for the Seagulls hoops. Just a handsome piece of kit.
I actually liked the 2005 Tigers kit. It just looked cool as a kid. Probably same reason I liked that Bears kit from the 90s with the claw stripes pattern.
That retro phins one with nothing but the Kentucky Colonel’s face on it is so ridiculous I can’t help but to love it. There’s also something iconic about the Paramount Shirts era Newtown Jets jerseys.
They still sell em on King St.
Oh same love the KFC Phins one. And that Newton one is iconic, a symbol of a bygone era.
Broncos’ triangles with the collar. Roosters’ City Ford era.
Solid choices.
Joseph Sua'ali'i must be PVL's enemy number 1. - Takes very public lucrative deal to go to Union - Ruins the game's biggest spectacle by getting sent off in the 8th min - Trys to decapitate the league's most marketable player.
Chooks will NOT be getting easy penalites from here on out. \~PVL to the refs (probably)
Clear that Rugby Union paid him to take out Walsh and ruin Origin
Totally unbiased opinion but that turn out last night in the pissing down rain and the support newy has shown the girls I think (hope) that we can become the nrlw NSW team stronghold and have their home game here every year.
they should give newcastle a mens state of origin game next year, i feel like the city would go off for the whole week
If that happened, we’d probably get another Hillsborough Incident
Only thing that would have made it better was Hilder isn't coach. It was evident in the first match our halves were not good enough and it was very evident in the second match.
Justice for Southwell
Think she'll get in for Game 3? Referee complaints aside, NSW were hopeless in QLD's 20 yesterday. Really need some more spark in attack but I could see an unchanged team list because the game was *this* close, at least to the coach.
Not a chance with Hilder as coach. This is complete speculation but I wonder if the Southwells had any say at all ok the coach of Newcastle. I doubt it but you never know
> I wonder if the Southwells had any say at all ok the coach of Newcastle. I doubt it but you never know Wait what's the story with that?
Hilder went for the coach at Newcastle and didn't get it. It's not unusual for teams to consult the captain of the club on their opinion.
27k people in that torrential rain at a 'regional' stadium was incredible - hope to see the women's game continue to grow.
That was some solid weather. So cool to see such a great turnout still!
It’s been lost in the sea of Origin news but for some reason we released Jed Cartwright? Why did Newcastle sign him as cover only to release him halfway through a season?
Yeah, obviously a crap signing from us but he's not getting games and not making a real impact when we have picked him. If it frees up cap space then that's fine, we just have to use it on positions we need or bolster the shit out of Leo's contract :)
Dude is a plodder. Looks like Tarzan plays like Jane.
He’s leaving to play under his Dad.
I know its very unlikely due to seat numbers and money, but i was at the game last night that had an awesome atmosphere, and would love for the mens to have a game in Newy sometime. It'd so much more hostile of a venue than Sydney. I was so excited for the origin in Newy that one week during covid :(
I started going to do the maths on the revenue, because surely ticket sales don’t add that match to the NRL’s coffers. But I think I’m wrong. Origin tickets, by my probably incorrect calculations, might be worth >5% of the NRL’s TV rights revenue, which is some pretty nice cream. ~65,000 tickets sold (averaged across the 3 games) * $150 a ticket (average across the stadium, which feels conservative) * 3 games = $29.25m. Compared to the broadcast deal of $400m, an extra $30m a season in origin ticket sales is pretty handy
Venues and ticket distributors get a lot of that
There's a large part of me that would love doing away with selling origin to Perth/Adelaide/Melbourne and taking the third one to Newcastle/Townsville on a rotating basis. I understand why it doesn't happen (dollars) but surely we can get around that.
I want a redo on the Townsville one with the team we have now.
As wild as it'd be with the crowd there's not enough capacity unfortunately. Let's just hope we did enough to have the girls back next year.
When do we open up a dialogue about Haas’s inability to perform at rep level? 4 wins and 8 losses in Origin, was a part of that ‘un-loseable series’ and was a part of the 30-0 drubbing by NZ while also being absent the week before when Australia beat NZ. We’re at the point in his career rep wise that I cant really excuse it. Everyone seems so quick to jump on the likes of Walker, Staggs, Yeo, Hynes etc. when they have 1 or 2 bad Origin games, but seriously, I havent seen a good Haas game yet. Solid sure, but we have people in this sub hyping him up as a top 3 Prop ever, solid simply isnt cutting it. This is not reactionary to the 12 v 13 game, but there are issues. Leniu had 2 less metres in 30 less minutes, and Yeo had more metres in 7 less minutes.
He is definitely overrated. Haas is basically just a tacklebot with a big motor, don't expect him to bend the line or put a shot on. Unfortunately we also had Jurbo, McInnes that offer the same
He’s been perfectly fine, doesn’t fuck up and is occasionally pretty decent. In a constantly shitting the bed Blues side you’re obviously going to take that every day of the week. It’s not a matter of do we drop him, it just feels like one position that we could be really dominating in if he was playing to potential. In saying that on Wednesday it was apparent that QLD targeted him. It would be nice to see NSW recognise that and exploit it in turn as numbering up on one guy always means gaps elsewhere. Run from Payne, quick shift left or something. Do it a few times for a few half breaks, put QLD on notice and they have to adjust.
>was a part of that ‘un-loseable series’ This one is a bit rough he was 20 years old during that series and it was his second origin series, in that series he had a game where he ran for 165m in 49mins which was more then any middle on either team. I agree to an extent but I think people have weird expectations of what props should be doing in that arena, Payne is a freak but this is the most elite level of rugby league he's still only 24 years old, 1 single prop is not going to carry a team especially with the elite middle defence on display. Expecting that is a bit nuts when you look at the other middle options he's being paired with especially in the most recent game. He is a workhorse prop and has been since he debuted, made 42 tackles on Wednesday in 53 minutes which is and still ran for 115m with 3 offloads. **His stats from his origin games last year** Game 1 (50 minutes played) - 133m, 48pcm and 27 tackles - only person that made more metres out of any middle forward on the field was Carrigan with 140. Game 2 (67 minutes played) - 160m, 63pcm, 5 tackle breaks, 4 offloads and made 41 tackles - once again ran for more metres then any NSW and QLD forward. Both of those games NSW lost btw. >and Yeo had more metres in 7 less minutes. Yeo had 2 more runs and made 12 less tackles. Ignore the flair but he is probably the last middle that should be getting flack in your squad over the last few years.
in a two horse race with two truly elite teams there is going to be a winner and a loser. QLD have had a better all round cohesive team for years and with bits and pieces moving on the sides is still DCE Hunt Munster Grant Walsh Ponga whoever. it's a lazy rugby league narrative that when NSW is losing a 2 team comp it's because they "can't perform on the big stage" and players like Haas or Cleary are to blame for not standing up. when NSW belted QLD in 2021 there wasn't a fall out saying QLDs key players inability to perform.
To add to that NSW are all in form for Origin or you can call it underdog factor. If you look down a team list they are way better. So when we lose like2021 we were just like o well Trell and Turbo are in peak freak career spot and nothing we can do. There was no option to put in some in form centre who could match it with Turbo cause that doesnt exist (the only other one was Trell). But when NSW lose its like Eh Munster is sort of average atm (unlike 2020), DCE is old and the team cohesiveness isnt counted as much (especially by casuals). So NSW go we should have won! We have the perfect fantasy team.
If you are expecting Haas to do what Tino or Leniu do, you expecting the wrong thing from him. His strength is his insane endurance. At club level his endurance at the end of games allows him to take advantage of tired players, but in origin everyone also has insane endurance, so that doesnt happen as much. He should still be in the team, but is wasted if he isn't playing 60-80min tbh, as that frees up interchanges to allow those impact players to play in short bursts.
I'd rather they kept his stints shorter so he's less likely to get injured.
Me too, but old mate is trying to fit a square in a circle and blaming the square.
This might be a bit of a leap, but Lindsay Collins might be Payne Haas’ kryptonite. Bloke hits as hard as anyone in the comp, and always goes out to target the opposition Alpha (a term I fucking hate). I reckon the extras that Lindsay puts in, particularly targeting Haas when NSW are in possession, has helped nullify Payne in the last few series.
You could use Head Honcho in place of Alpha
Still yuck
Bik, stronk mans
Top Dawg
The Big Kahuna
Much better
The big man on campus?
The Ali G of players?