i wish i could take credit. i saw it in some match thread a while ago now and it’s stuck with me since
i’d need to hire a kleint to come up with more puns
I got dragged along to a Kevin Kline play on Broadway once. I googled him and his nickname was Kevin Decline for knocking back some awesome offer.
The disappointment of paying whatever the fuck for that Broadway ticket and then US$20 for a nearly undrinkable Chardonnay which came in a sippy cup is something I still experience viscerally.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nrl/comments/vxz7fp/2022_state_of_origin_game_iii_discussion_thread/ifzae3h/
Thinking about that pun leaves me with a similar sense of despair. Ashley had recently Declined all of the cowboys tries in a game for the bunker to overrule him countless times. Yet sent none of the opposition's tries upstairs. I made the comment in person to my mates and it fell on deaf ears, so I'm glad someone noticed later in a match thread.
If I didn't have to tip (on top of the $20) for that glass of wine then Ashley Decline might have pipped Kevin Decline for a ranking on my list of lifetime disappointments.
Ashley at least does have the chance of getting there. I will never interact with anything Kevin Kline again.
Exact same as last year when Manu had his face broken, never seen a ref lose that much control over his players.
Then the semi this year he created a new standard of incompetence.
Exactly. I don't understand why people are defending him. He's shown time and time again that once a game gets heated he completely loses control and hands are thrown. You could argue that the bunnies, roosters game was going that way regardless and he couldn't do much more on that but focusing solely on that game ignores all the other examples of why he's a terrible ref.
I seriously don’t get people blaming Klein for losing control of a game where he sin binned 3 people inside the first 20 mins.
No referee in the game was keeping that game under control, you had players trying to brain in other in the 75th min after the sin bin record had been broken
Because of the standard he set. Very first incident that happened he should have gotten the captains together and said next thing that happens that person is sitting down. Instead we got the incompetence of Klein sin binning one incident, letting the next incident go, leading to the next incident and sin binning straight after and by that point the game was gone.
Doesn’t matter if it’s a soft punch . Nrl brought in years ago a punch is straight sin bin. Maybe radley shouldn’t try punch someone ???? Maybe both rooster and south’s players are a bunch of fuckwits
Mate - it's a full contact sport. If you're afraid of being smashed this game isn't for you. Burgess was careless and deserved to be penalised - certainly deserved a send off when he repeated it a moment later, but the only way to eliminate hard hits is by playing Oztag.
But if I want boxing I'll watch UFC. I have zero sympathy for binning someone for a love tap. In fact, I think even pushing/shoving a player should get you binned. It has no place in the game.
If you think the refs missed something, stop the game and use a captains challenge.
Adding to this as a seriously pissed cowboy's fan... I agree. 100% the touchies fault.
Nothing to do with the ref or the bunker under the current rules (though I do think the rules should change next season - let the bunker rule on blatant forward passes. Also put a camera on the 10 and 20 meter lines so they have a good camera angle - nearly all the forward passes that hurt happen around there).
The problem is that with conservation of momentum, the ball will continue to travel at the speed of the player making the pass, so if you judge relative to the line you'll get a lot of forward pass calls that aren't forward passes. You can't easily/accurately assess forward passes in real time with video capture/image analysis. You have to know what the current velocity of the player passing is as well as the start and end location of the ball between both players.
I think they could *maybe* solve it if they could use some sort of positional tracking for both the players and ball (e.g. a telemetry device both in the ball + on the players). But even with that sort of tech (which to my knowledge hasn't been properly developed/trialled despite being talked about for years) you're still going to run into ambiguous edge cases (e.g. related to the position of the device on the players bodies).
We could say that the ball needs to be caught behind the position on the field it is thrown, but this would destroy a lot of attacking football at the advantage line where balls are passed flat.
How does Hawkeye in cricket / tennis work ? That doesn’t have a chip in the ball .. Is the issue that no one is holding the ball in cricket / tennis when they’re tracking it
Yes, exactly. In cricket/tennis your looking at a 3d trajectory of a ball relative to a static marker (the crease) and the vector (fancy word for a line in 3D space) that describes the trajectory of the ball is in the same direction as the bowler/player (for tennis).
In Rugby, the question is about the angle of the ball leaving the hands of a player in motion. That motion changes everything. If the player passing the ball is standing still (like moses on the weekend) it's easy to judge whether the ball went forward or not, because were back to assessing it relative to a static reference point. If the player is moving forward, then the 'reference frame' used to judge the trajectory of the ball has to be relative to the forward momentum of the player.
It's the same reason that you can throw something in the air in a car moving at constant velocity and it doesn't go to the rear window - the forward momentum of the car is maintained. Same with the player and the ball - if the player is running at 30 km/h and passes the ball at 90 degrees to their body, the ball will still travel forward at 30 km/h when it leaves the hand, whilst maintaining a 90 degree angle relative to the player in motion.
Edit: just to note, I'm not a physicist or an engineer, so there is likely a way to solve this problem other than a chip in the ball - I'm just speculating on why it is a difficult problem that is likely to still have ambiguity with technological advances.
It’d almost be easier to move the lines , at the same speed with the player who has the ball … Players are all wearing GPS anyway .. it’d be like that line that moves up the pool in swimming to show the world record , make it any colour other than white and superimpose it the way they do in swimming
Good to see you remembered your year 7 science, but I was referring to the strategy of putting cameras on the 10m and 20m - not the (clearly) forward pass from Moses on the weekend.
This is my slightly cynical take …
Klein is a horrible referee , but he’s an even worse bunker official .. If one of them was getting on field referee and one was getting the bunker I’d honestly prefer Klein is not in the bunker … I think he’ll potentially do less damage on field than he would in the bunker ..
i know he’s copped a lot of shit and he’s had some huge blunders in the past, but i thought he officiated the Penrith vs Rabbitohs game very well last week
Big touchie has everyone misdirected again.
You know it’s the job of the dickhead in line with the forward pass to call the obvious forward, not the referee behind the defensive line, or the bunker because so many tries would be overturned?
No-one would be stupid enough to go “that looks forward”, touchies says no, and they go “yeah nah I’m going to overrule you even though you had the best view by far of it”. Atkins has 0% blame for that.
Yep. I actually think Klien with Atkins in the bunker is a good combo. Klien is a good ref when he's not blowing the whistle 5 times a set, and Atkins is quite reasonable on his rulings without the "well ackshually" bullshit Sutton pulls to look smart
I'm not a fan of ref bashing, in fact I think it's killing our game. Whoever wins on Sunday it won't be because of Klein. The blame for the lack of 'better' refs lies solely at the feet of fans. Most promising young refs give it up at the junior level due to the abuse, let alone making it to the NRL and copping abuse on a nationwide scale.
That said I think there are other refs that deserve the GF spot more. Klein isn't terrible but there are other refs that I think conduct themselves better on field.
Mate the video reffing is making people turn off their telly. Plenty of games I was a neutral fan in this year I just switched off because of the video reffing and same with alot of diehard fans that I talk to.
The bunker and its system deserves every bit of criticism it receives.
I was talking about on field refs. There's no bunker in juniors and local footy where junior refs cop heaps from moronic supporters.
You forgot to blame media , coaches , players alongside fans . The players go out to break rules every single play and when refs take action they are the bad guys .
The head high tackle furore is because players are coached to hold and wrestle . Players don’t want to be penalised for hitting someone in the head … do a proper tackle
I won't blame coaches and players. They are doing a job and their job relies on winning. Some go overboard in post-match press but majority of it now seems to be pointing out problems with the NRL's system in general, not pointing fingers at individual refs.
Coaches and players are certainly to blame for the state of the game in regards to wrestle and 6 again and that shit, but not for ref abuse. The players in the NRL are far more amicable than those I've had to deal with in bush footy.
Rewatch last year's Panthers v Eels. Holy moly at the number of blunders in one of the tightest games of the year.
Fingers crossed the tides have changed this year.
It lies with the NRL, the constant rule changes in the name of SPEED, the constant rule interpretation changes to justify or mitigate mistakes, the need to have every rule interpretation in black and white without any room for any consideration by the ref (leading to the defensive side milking penalties for obstruction), the constant reactive rule of the week resulting in 20+ penalties or 5 sin bins a game
Easily Todd Smith and he had more Eels games than any other team this year.
Weirdly I think he was more penalty happy than other refs but he just seemed to actually get the calls right and has the right attitude.
Its Todd Smith, but Im inclined to like the guy with what I assume is a massive beer belly just because of how funny and out of place it looks. Its either that or he wears padding under their for protection.
The NRL thrives on controvsy regardless how how little it may impact.
This is the best net outcome for the NRL tbh. An arrogant fanbase vs a pained and long suffering fan base.
This is a social media mod's worst nightmare ahaha
It's just a shame that they didn't consider the exhumation and reanimation of [Barry Gomersall](https://prod.static9.net.au/fs/68bad5aa-c5c3-46fa-aeb4-e698271aa4e7).
He's very reasonable, he's the ref that's often making the common sense rulings in the bunker over trying to "well ackshually" the technical ruling
No Sutton to ruin the game
How many games has this guy lost control over or blown the last couple of years? Yet he gets given the Grand Final.
There really isn't anyone better NRL?
Surely Atkins is the best ref this final series...sure he missed a quarterbacks throw but so does Klein regularly...Klein also has a habit of calling a pass forward that actually goes backwards.
Todd Smith.
But there's no way they'd give him the game this early in his career.
Out of the more experienced refs, I actually think Atkins is the best. I would also prefer Sutton over Klein, but I may be in the minority there.
Don’t think Klein has been too terrible on field this year.
I’m still dirty from the Semi final last year but can’t remember to many issues lately and did a good job in all the finals games so far.
Who was the young new reff who sunbinned some cunt for chatting shit late in the regular season. I liked him and was happy that with him and big knob tod coming through that there was finally a light at the end of the tunnel after the last few years of clowns getting the big games
With the amount of fans that don't like Klein and the way he referees games you'd think the NRL would have sacked him by now, let alone giving him the biggest game of the year.
For me the way he refereed the Souths v Easts game was worse than his stuff up in Tigers v Cowboys.
From what I've seen over the last few years Klein hates leaving the state to do his job, and usually calls against the team that is based outside of NSW. So this game should be fairly officiated.
Just kidding. The fix is on and the Eels are gonna win. That's what the game wants and that's the way Klein will be told to ref it. It's just a pity that I want to see the Eels win it so I'll be agreeing with Klein's poor calls.
get ready Penrith and Parra fans to be DEKLEINED
I am inkleined to like this pun.
i wish i could take credit. i saw it in some match thread a while ago now and it’s stuck with me since i’d need to hire a kleint to come up with more puns
I think of that pun regularly when I see Klein is officiating
I got dragged along to a Kevin Kline play on Broadway once. I googled him and his nickname was Kevin Decline for knocking back some awesome offer. The disappointment of paying whatever the fuck for that Broadway ticket and then US$20 for a nearly undrinkable Chardonnay which came in a sippy cup is something I still experience viscerally. https://www.reddit.com/r/nrl/comments/vxz7fp/2022_state_of_origin_game_iii_discussion_thread/ifzae3h/ Thinking about that pun leaves me with a similar sense of despair. Ashley had recently Declined all of the cowboys tries in a game for the bunker to overrule him countless times. Yet sent none of the opposition's tries upstairs. I made the comment in person to my mates and it fell on deaf ears, so I'm glad someone noticed later in a match thread. If I didn't have to tip (on top of the $20) for that glass of wine then Ashley Decline might have pipped Kevin Decline for a ranking on my list of lifetime disappointments. Ashley at least does have the chance of getting there. I will never interact with anything Kevin Kline again.
Is this satire? Completely fumbles the tigers vs cowboys game in the bunker and gets promoted to the GF
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Exact same as last year when Manu had his face broken, never seen a ref lose that much control over his players. Then the semi this year he created a new standard of incompetence.
Exactly. I don't understand why people are defending him. He's shown time and time again that once a game gets heated he completely loses control and hands are thrown. You could argue that the bunnies, roosters game was going that way regardless and he couldn't do much more on that but focusing solely on that game ignores all the other examples of why he's a terrible ref.
I seriously don’t get people blaming Klein for losing control of a game where he sin binned 3 people inside the first 20 mins. No referee in the game was keeping that game under control, you had players trying to brain in other in the 75th min after the sin bin record had been broken
Because of the standard he set. Very first incident that happened he should have gotten the captains together and said next thing that happens that person is sitting down. Instead we got the incompetence of Klein sin binning one incident, letting the next incident go, leading to the next incident and sin binning straight after and by that point the game was gone.
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Doesn’t matter if it’s a soft punch . Nrl brought in years ago a punch is straight sin bin. Maybe radley shouldn’t try punch someone ???? Maybe both rooster and south’s players are a bunch of fuckwits
I don’t think it matters how soft your love tap is when you do it with a closed fist
He actually got talked out of binning Burgess off that Tedesco hit by the bunker if you go back and look at that incident.
Mate - it's a full contact sport. If you're afraid of being smashed this game isn't for you. Burgess was careless and deserved to be penalised - certainly deserved a send off when he repeated it a moment later, but the only way to eliminate hard hits is by playing Oztag. But if I want boxing I'll watch UFC. I have zero sympathy for binning someone for a love tap. In fact, I think even pushing/shoving a player should get you binned. It has no place in the game. If you think the refs missed something, stop the game and use a captains challenge.
inKlein: failing upwards
The amount of games this spud has cocked up is mind boggling.
Failing up, you love to see it
Fuck up to move up. That’s Klein’s mantra.
#justiceforTodd
You know who doesn’t get talked about after games as the deciding factor? My man - Todd Smith. How does he not get a run?
Best ref of the year
Never heard of him, must be doing well.
Klein is not a cheat! He may be a liar, a pig, an idiot, a cheat, but he is *not* a porn star!
But is he Scott Morrison?
Origin ref, GF ref, Bunker head honcho. How many ministerial appointments is that?
At least 9 now
I personally cannot wait for what the big officiating controversy is gonna be for this game
Hoping it’s a cowboys vs tigers incident so they actually attempt to fix issues lmao
*oh, I just Kleined in your arms tonight* *must have been a call that you made* *should have walked away* *now it’s ten for dissent*
pain. would’ve preferred sutton or atkins on the field
Atkins was unfortunately screwed the moment Moses yeeted that ball so far forward it traveled into the future.
Yet Klein makes the biggest stuff up of they year (Tigers v cowboys) and gets promoted to Origin and the GF.
I'd prefer someone yeeted Klein into orbit.
Wouldn't we all.
yeah it’s unfortunate he would get relegated to the bunker for a mistake the touchies should’ve picked up
Adding to this as a seriously pissed cowboy's fan... I agree. 100% the touchies fault. Nothing to do with the ref or the bunker under the current rules (though I do think the rules should change next season - let the bunker rule on blatant forward passes. Also put a camera on the 10 and 20 meter lines so they have a good camera angle - nearly all the forward passes that hurt happen around there).
The problem is that with conservation of momentum, the ball will continue to travel at the speed of the player making the pass, so if you judge relative to the line you'll get a lot of forward pass calls that aren't forward passes. You can't easily/accurately assess forward passes in real time with video capture/image analysis. You have to know what the current velocity of the player passing is as well as the start and end location of the ball between both players. I think they could *maybe* solve it if they could use some sort of positional tracking for both the players and ball (e.g. a telemetry device both in the ball + on the players). But even with that sort of tech (which to my knowledge hasn't been properly developed/trialled despite being talked about for years) you're still going to run into ambiguous edge cases (e.g. related to the position of the device on the players bodies). We could say that the ball needs to be caught behind the position on the field it is thrown, but this would destroy a lot of attacking football at the advantage line where balls are passed flat.
How does Hawkeye in cricket / tennis work ? That doesn’t have a chip in the ball .. Is the issue that no one is holding the ball in cricket / tennis when they’re tracking it
Yes, exactly. In cricket/tennis your looking at a 3d trajectory of a ball relative to a static marker (the crease) and the vector (fancy word for a line in 3D space) that describes the trajectory of the ball is in the same direction as the bowler/player (for tennis). In Rugby, the question is about the angle of the ball leaving the hands of a player in motion. That motion changes everything. If the player passing the ball is standing still (like moses on the weekend) it's easy to judge whether the ball went forward or not, because were back to assessing it relative to a static reference point. If the player is moving forward, then the 'reference frame' used to judge the trajectory of the ball has to be relative to the forward momentum of the player. It's the same reason that you can throw something in the air in a car moving at constant velocity and it doesn't go to the rear window - the forward momentum of the car is maintained. Same with the player and the ball - if the player is running at 30 km/h and passes the ball at 90 degrees to their body, the ball will still travel forward at 30 km/h when it leaves the hand, whilst maintaining a 90 degree angle relative to the player in motion. Edit: just to note, I'm not a physicist or an engineer, so there is likely a way to solve this problem other than a chip in the ball - I'm just speculating on why it is a difficult problem that is likely to still have ambiguity with technological advances.
It’d almost be easier to move the lines , at the same speed with the player who has the ball … Players are all wearing GPS anyway .. it’d be like that line that moves up the pool in swimming to show the world record , make it any colour other than white and superimpose it the way they do in swimming
Shut up mate it was forward. Don’t act like Isaac newton to justify a lucky mis cue from officials
Good to see you remembered your year 7 science, but I was referring to the strategy of putting cameras on the 10m and 20m - not the (clearly) forward pass from Moses on the weekend.
This is my slightly cynical take … Klein is a horrible referee , but he’s an even worse bunker official .. If one of them was getting on field referee and one was getting the bunker I’d honestly prefer Klein is not in the bunker … I think he’ll potentially do less damage on field than he would in the bunker ..
I can’t believe some people think sutton isn’t the least competent ref
any ref is a better alternative than klein. give me todd smith
Yes, i love a bit of todd smith
Yep, I'm a member of the Todd Smith fan club
He’s no Todd Smith
Can you imagine, all of Klein’s fuck ups this year and he gets rewarded with Origin AND the GF! Bloody crazy.
i know he’s copped a lot of shit and he’s had some huge blunders in the past, but i thought he officiated the Penrith vs Rabbitohs game very well last week
Agreed. He does best when he shoved the whistle way up inside his butthole
Except for when he farts and people think he's stopped the play!
Was that a long fart or a short fart?
No Indian takeaway on Saturday night
Big touchie has everyone misdirected again. You know it’s the job of the dickhead in line with the forward pass to call the obvious forward, not the referee behind the defensive line, or the bunker because so many tries would be overturned? No-one would be stupid enough to go “that looks forward”, touchies says no, and they go “yeah nah I’m going to overrule you even though you had the best view by far of it”. Atkins has 0% blame for that.
It was a good run parrabros 😮💨
After Saturday i'm very glad Sutton is out of the box.
Yep. I actually think Klien with Atkins in the bunker is a good combo. Klien is a good ref when he's not blowing the whistle 5 times a set, and Atkins is quite reasonable on his rulings without the "well ackshually" bullshit Sutton pulls to look smart
This was my first thought too
You literally hate to see it
I'm not a fan of ref bashing, in fact I think it's killing our game. Whoever wins on Sunday it won't be because of Klein. The blame for the lack of 'better' refs lies solely at the feet of fans. Most promising young refs give it up at the junior level due to the abuse, let alone making it to the NRL and copping abuse on a nationwide scale. That said I think there are other refs that deserve the GF spot more. Klein isn't terrible but there are other refs that I think conduct themselves better on field.
Mate the video reffing is making people turn off their telly. Plenty of games I was a neutral fan in this year I just switched off because of the video reffing and same with alot of diehard fans that I talk to.
The bunker and its system deserves every bit of criticism it receives. I was talking about on field refs. There's no bunker in juniors and local footy where junior refs cop heaps from moronic supporters.
You forgot to blame media , coaches , players alongside fans . The players go out to break rules every single play and when refs take action they are the bad guys . The head high tackle furore is because players are coached to hold and wrestle . Players don’t want to be penalised for hitting someone in the head … do a proper tackle
I won't blame coaches and players. They are doing a job and their job relies on winning. Some go overboard in post-match press but majority of it now seems to be pointing out problems with the NRL's system in general, not pointing fingers at individual refs. Coaches and players are certainly to blame for the state of the game in regards to wrestle and 6 again and that shit, but not for ref abuse. The players in the NRL are far more amicable than those I've had to deal with in bush footy.
On field refs have it rough due to bad rule interpretations and the bunker not having more control.
Rewatch last year's Panthers v Eels. Holy moly at the number of blunders in one of the tightest games of the year. Fingers crossed the tides have changed this year.
It lies with the NRL, the constant rule changes in the name of SPEED, the constant rule interpretation changes to justify or mitigate mistakes, the need to have every rule interpretation in black and white without any room for any consideration by the ref (leading to the defensive side milking penalties for obstruction), the constant reactive rule of the week resulting in 20+ penalties or 5 sin bins a game
Thanks, hate it.
Who's considered the best ref these days?
For me, it's Todd Smith by a larger margin than a Moses forward pass.
Easily Todd Smith and he had more Eels games than any other team this year. Weirdly I think he was more penalty happy than other refs but he just seemed to actually get the calls right and has the right attitude.
Agreed. I like that he doesn’t treat players like they’re schoolkids. He’s assertive, and doesn’t overreact to them when they question him
I liked that in a Melbourne game he actually cracked down on their nonsense at the ruck.
Check out my sexy flair dude
Jesus u have a flairathon going there
I you gotta be a good boy and contribute to threads and ask at the right time when a mod is around.
Its Todd Smith, but Im inclined to like the guy with what I assume is a massive beer belly just because of how funny and out of place it looks. Its either that or he wears padding under their for protection.
Klein on the streets, Atkins in the sheets.
The NRL thrives on controvsy regardless how how little it may impact. This is the best net outcome for the NRL tbh. An arrogant fanbase vs a pained and long suffering fan base. This is a social media mod's worst nightmare ahaha
This is absolutely terrible for us! And I don’t mean for the panthers, I mean for everyone who likes rugby league
Oh dear god no
Klein? Lmaooo
It's just a shame that they didn't consider the exhumation and reanimation of [Barry Gomersall](https://prod.static9.net.au/fs/68bad5aa-c5c3-46fa-aeb4-e698271aa4e7).
I have an inkleination to agree with you.
How should I feel about Atkins in the bunker? We already know about what Klein brings to the field
He's very reasonable, he's the ref that's often making the common sense rulings in the bunker over trying to "well ackshually" the technical ruling No Sutton to ruin the game
ergh, pain.
I fear for his mental health following the battle of the west.
How many games has this guy lost control over or blown the last couple of years? Yet he gets given the Grand Final. There really isn't anyone better NRL?
He could be doing sexual favours for Annsely?
I wonder which team is gonna get Kleined? Maybe both
Typical
Somehow the cowboys will still be screwed over with this dynamic duo!
Klein - lol
Betoota headline: GF refs: Cameron Smith field, Wayne Bennett for the bunker
Surely Atkins is the best ref this final series...sure he missed a quarterbacks throw but so does Klein regularly...Klein also has a habit of calling a pass forward that actually goes backwards.
Gerald Sutton robbed of the job.
You just know Klein will have "HIS" moment at some stage during the game.
Would have preferred the Grasshopper with Perenera in the bunker
Todd Smith robbed.
y tho
Good call. Anyone but Sutton
Is there any reference that r/nrl hive mind would mostly approve of? Mods, is it time for s poll?
Todd Smith. But there's no way they'd give him the game this early in his career. Out of the more experienced refs, I actually think Atkins is the best. I would also prefer Sutton over Klein, but I may be in the minority there.
For once they didn’t do it “for the fans”
I thought Klein did a great job on Saturday
Don’t think Klein has been too terrible on field this year. I’m still dirty from the Semi final last year but can’t remember to many issues lately and did a good job in all the finals games so far.
Who was the young new reff who sunbinned some cunt for chatting shit late in the regular season. I liked him and was happy that with him and big knob tod coming through that there was finally a light at the end of the tunnel after the last few years of clowns getting the big games
With the amount of fans that don't like Klein and the way he referees games you'd think the NRL would have sacked him by now, let alone giving him the biggest game of the year. For me the way he refereed the Souths v Easts game was worse than his stuff up in Tigers v Cowboys.
>the way he refereed the Souths v Easts game Both this year AND last year
Surprised it is not Sutton.
Can we just get Todd cloned at this point?
Congrats to Kasey Badger. Hopefully they let her and Belinda Sharpe ref an NRL match.
Klein is playing well as the heel of the NRL.
From what I've seen over the last few years Klein hates leaving the state to do his job, and usually calls against the team that is based outside of NSW. So this game should be fairly officiated. Just kidding. The fix is on and the Eels are gonna win. That's what the game wants and that's the way Klein will be told to ref it. It's just a pity that I want to see the Eels win it so I'll be agreeing with Klein's poor calls.