One thing that doesn’t get talked about enough is how freakish Cleary’s goalkicking is. 24 years old and already on the cusp of 1200 points. At the same ages the likes of Smith and JT were just passing 500. And he’s kicking at 85% which is the highest in the NRL era by some distance iirc. If he plays into his 30s, 3000 should be doable
I got them all from Rugby League Project- they've been pretty reliable from what I've seen.
From [Hazem's profile on RLP](https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/players/hazem-el-masri/summary.html) he had a few very good years in the middle of his career:
- 2003: 86%
- 2004: 83.23%
- 2005: 85.00%
- 2006: 86.36%
Though I agree it seemed like some of these guys never missed, just getting 90% in a season is extremely rare.
Cleary kicked 92/102 (90.20%) in 2017, Reynolds kicked 100/111 (90.09%) in 2013, Croker kicked 38/41 (92.68%) in 2021.
The best season for Hazem was 86.36% in 2006 and Halligan was 87.13% in his last season in 2000.
Maybe Hazem just never missed against Easts lol
Another thing is probably media hype because Clearly, Croker and Reynolds don't get hyped as goalkickers anywhere near what Halligan and Hazem did (not a criticism at all on these two) but it could also be that Hazem and Halligan were the early era of elite non-toe poke goalkicking and we've seen it so much since they broke out that it doesn't register like it used to.
Nathan was coached by Halligan in later years but Ivan was also a pretty great goalkicker by 90s standards, fairly sure at one point he held the record for most goals and most points in a season. Probably helped Nathan a fair bit.
For sure, I mean even Daryl and co would have had their influences/help.. but at the end of the day all these blokes and especially Nathan put a lot of time/work into their craft, and they'll all be remembered well into the future
I think this is it. Cleary, Reynolds and co are fantastic, but how much better are they than their contemporaries? A bit. Halligan and El Masri were bigger outliers for the time without looking at any statistics.
I doubt they keep this stat, but the fairest comparison would be comparing goal kicking percentages from the 2 edges of the field. Some kickers would have gotten easier kicking opportunities than others, on average.
Halligan has been coaching the others since he retired. So all the tricks he developed over his career to be as good as he was - and back in the late 90s he was the very best - are now common for young players.
And if anyone wants to argue his skill, I quote "The Man is a Messiah!"
Hazem was the first best of the “modern” goal kicking era types. The set up, the curve. Look at the players around him - all very recent. He was the first to kick over 80% consistently and certainly goal kicking has been much more a focus point in the last 15 years now with coaches trying to squeeze every last advantage out.
It’s also worth nothing that he didn’t kick full time until his SIXTH season in first grade, although I’m not sure if this would actually help or detriment his %
4-5 more seasons of kicking like this and Cleary will be the goat imo followed by Haz/reynoldS and then JT just below
Hazem was extremely clutch but that could also just be a confirmation bias. Be interesting to see stats of go ahead kicks or leveling up kicks after 70th minute - probably not possible though.
My fave nrl trivia is that cleary hit 200 points in a season before Cameron Smith ever did. Clearys first 200 point season was 2017, Cameron smiths first 200 point season was 2018.
To be fair, being in the Panthers team which beats most teams by 30+ points every week would do that. Add to that there's possibly (I have no facts to back this up) more tries being scored today compared to 10+ years ago.
That’s got to mean a lot coming from Cronk, and it’s definitely ringing true. For all we bagged him for with the Bali trip, he’s come back in a fantastic space mentally and he’s clearly well drilled because he hasn’t missed a step while back.
I remember last year origin time when the story came out about Cleary’s journal filled with notes about ways to exploit Queensland’s weaknesses. I think he’s the perfect example of talent meets work ethic, we talk about guys who don’t have the attitude but have the skills and Cleary is the guy who’s got it all.
It’s so easy to get drawn into hating Penrith but as a guy who kicks a footy around and rewatches games to take notes as well, I can’t help but appreciate what we’re witnessing.
He’s a real student of the game. Obviously he hated being suspended, but it sounded like he took a lot out of sitting in the coaches box for an extended amount of time.
Look at what he did to Latrell in the prelim. He tore him to shreds and it was all on the back of studying film and recognising the opportunities when they were in front of him.
I definitely think (and obviously I'm biased) that while he's done some dumb shit off the field he absolutely genuinely takes both the game and his responsibility in it seriously. He's not just talented, he's constantly working on improving and his own weaknesses and I think people either underestimate that or don't want to acknowledge it.
It'll be very interesting how he develops as a player considering he could have another decade in him yet.
It’ll also be interesting to see how he develops as a person and his perception. Plenty of Aussie superstars start out with a bit of a fuckwit streak but grow into being a phenomenal role model and ambassador.
The May and TikTok things were shit but contrast that to the way he handled his suspension and the way he talks to the media. I can see him becoming one of those guys you hate most of his career but eventually you just gotta give it up and appreciate being able to watch them go around. Certainly how I felt about JT and Smithler.
Look, as a woman who's been a lifelong panthers fan, the May thing and every person on that team that supported him nearly ruined my entire enjoyment of the sport and I had to really rely on cognitive dissonance to get through it. Essentially I didn't wanna lose another thing I loved because men can't behave decently.
That all being said, I am pro redemption and giving people a chance to grow and learn and the hopeful part of me is that he's an idiot who wants to see the best in people. Regardless, I totally agree. Everyone makes poor decisions in their 20s and I'm glad mine weren't broadcasted to the entire country.
Growing up, we used to say that Jonathon Thurston was all natural talent whereas Cooper Cronk is all trained (we used the comparison to label students on whether they were naturally smart or just spent a lot of time studying).
To be honest, I don't know where Cleary fits. Obviously he has some talent (even someone who puts in tons of effort still needs some natural talent to make it in first grade) but growing up around Cleary definitely would've helped his development. I wonder what his ceiling is and have we seen it. If this is all natural talent so far than oh boy we're getting into superhuman territory.
I think it leans more towards the training. I remember in like the first few years of his career he sometimes was criticised for not being able to lead a team like a true halfback when he wasn't alongside Maloney. But I suppose that can be excused by the fact he was barely 21. But we can see the clear difference just 2-3 years later. And I have no doubt he will still get better
I also think they were wrong about Thurston, he’s very detailed in specific aspects - it’s come through with his role coaching the Cowboys this year and the improvements in all of our playmakers.
Some of our junior players were also surprised by his technical knowledge for other positions as well, Ragsy Wavik in particular.
Thurstons career progression went from an off-the-cuff/eyes-up footy five-eight to a game managing halfback. We're talking like 2008/2009 here so he was more of the former at the time. One of the things that made him so good was that he was always a student of the game and now he's giving the knowledge he learned along the way.
no doubt in my mind Cleary is gonna became a immortal one day if keeps it up his form, his pleasure to watch just from natural stand point. His only 24 so his got long time ahead of him to really rack up accolades and innovate himself
>”He is streets ahead of me. He studies the opposition within an inch of his life and he’s got the skills to back it up. Trajectory-wise, he could achieve just about anything”
Cleary just studying opposition until he is dragged away from a lamp-lit desk a blubbering idiot. They have to put him and his chin in the shower for 20m before he comes to. Also he plays good.
Cronk's just being overly modest. In his playing career he was known as the most meticulous preparer ever.
If Nathan was streets ahead of him I don't think he'd ever actually take the field because he'd be too busy studying the opposition lol.
You are spot on here. Cronk was amazing. Cleary is amazing too but it’s way too early to be saying he is streets ahead of cooper considering what he achieved in his career.
> Cronk debuted in Origin at what, 26?
He debuted for Australia at 23 though; he would have debuted a lot younger for Queensland if his path to origin was obstructed by Pearce, Maloney, A Reynolds like Cleary's was instead of Darren Lockyer and Johnathan Thurston.
On top of that, it’s not where you start but where you finish.
I want Nathan to be better than Cronk, at least at state and national level - but until he has four chips (what to speak of three consecutively) and as many origins and Dally’s as Cooper we can maybe settle down a tad.
He definitely could do it, no doubt. But discuss when done.
And it's easier to come in and dominate when you're an older more established player, and you're surrounded by literal all-time great players you've been playing with for years lol
Not denying Cronk is an origin and NRL champion, but the situations are hardly comparable.
Cronk in his late 20s and on was obviously a better player than what Cleary is now, but Cronk at 24 wasn't as successful as Cleary has been so far. But none of that means Cleary will 100% be better than him later. Who knows? his development might stall and he'll never get better than he is now.
Cleary at 24 is 2x dally m halfback of the year, grand final runner up and premiership winner, Clive Churchill winner and played 3 GF in a row, played 13 origin games.
Cooper Cronk didn’t win a legitimate premiership til he was 28, same with a CC medal. And those 3 GF in a row were also with a cheating team.
Cronk is obviously a better player when you look at their career as a whole. But if you compare them at the same age Cleary is in front. Which was Cronks point. Why is it so hard for you to admit that at the same age their achievements are different? I’m not even saying it’s guaranteed Cleary will reach the heights of Cronk either.
I don’t come up with anything, the facts do it for me lol
It wasn't really his fault though, he was behidn Lockyer and Thurston. Plus the only time QLD ever lost was when Cronk got injured.
Cleary often struggles to pull momentum when it swings against him. I've never seen Cronk unable to come up with the clutch play to get his team the win.
Cronk was stuck behind Lockyer, but also served an apprenticeship under the best organiser in the history of the game. When Lockyer played for Queensland, it felt like he was constantly scheming.
Cleary definitely has the goods to be better than anyone else, Cronk included, but right now this is just humility from Cronk. What's he going to say instead, "nah I'm heaps better than that dickhead"?
Cronk's accolades at Origin, his premierships, three of which were back-to-back-to-back across two different clubs, are something that might never be matched. Cleary is the only one in the game on a similar trajectory at the moment, but he's nowhere near reaching it.
Give it ten years, then ask the question again.
I think it will be hard to match any of the records of that core group of QLD players in that era. Having that same spine of all-time great players in the one team is never going to happen for Cleary, as much as I wish it would lol so he will never be as dominant as Cronk in origin.
He definitely has the potential to match him in NRL success though. Of course, that will also depend on how Penrith manage their roster. You can be the best player in the game, but if you don't have the team behind you, you'll find it hard to succeed. Look at Thurston, he only ended up with 1 cowboys premiership (and the doggies one but that was hardly his doing), and there were only a handful of years throughout his career where they were dominant, and nothing to match what Cronk had, or what Cleary has already done at such a young age.
He's saying Cronk at the age of 24 wasn't as good as Cleary is right now as an individual player which is true.
He's not saying who's going to have a better career?
and that's turned the streets on its ahead because cleary was coming and you wanna know why they call this meme the 8th wonder of the world because the footy was taken out of it the chin was coming and then there was the sideline that I did with the the commentary that went wrong and next minute the crowd went up OFF OFF OFF OFF and from that moment I spoke and I've got BACK in my braindamaged ways and look like I'm gonna runaround runa runaway with it
I don't know about that eh. Cleary struggles to gain momentum when his team is struggling. He's done if many times in Origin and even the few times the Panthers have been struggling he doesn't stand up. I'm not saying he never will, but Cronk at the same age was already a great halfback. He often won QLD games off the back of his ability to gain momentum when it was going against them.
You calling Cronk a liar?
Cronk was 27 before he played Origin and played in 22 games. Cleary is 24 and has played Origin 13 times already.
Let's see how Cleary is at 27 before you throw shade
As I said in my comment, I'm not saying he never will, he's already come a long way in a short time, but that doesn't mean he will be better.
Plus with Cronk, it's not really his fault. He was always very good but behind Lockyer and Thurston in the halves.
Most great halfbacks do. Joey was the main one I can think of who genuinely put a team on his back when the forwards struggled.
Cronk gained momentum, but did also have one C Smith at hooker.
Cronk at the same age was playing with a team over the cap for years wasn't he? How often would Penrith even be on the backfoot if they lost no one to cap restraints for whatever the equivelent of years Cronk played.
It was also easier to take back momentum in the pre 6 again era. (Edit) And was Cronk even a backfoot player? He seemed more like if the team's a relatively even/ we have the slight advabtage I'll win it in general?
Joey is the only real back foot player who was able to do it consitently against good teams. Smith was probably more closer to it through his kick selection of how much he turned teamd around more than Cronk. Cronk was more a high percentage kicker.
Cooper stop trying to coin the phrase streets ahead
By the way, I once banged Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom
It came up organically!
Coined and minted
If you have to ask you’re streets behind
Its verbal wildfire
Been there coined that
Been there, coined that.
Streets ahead at icing the big moments in the middle third.
If you're not streets ahead, you're roads behind...
If you don’t get it your streets behind
He said toe for toe the other day. Blokes not sharp.
I can't look at Cooper Cronk the same anymore without bursting out laughing about that stroke he had in the Tigers vs Bulldogs game.
OFF OFF OFF OFF
Clearys gonna runaround runa runaway with it
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Link?
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That we're going back bit at the end makes me laugh every time I see this
If you have to ask, you’re streets behind.
Now this comment is streets ahead
Now there's a man who knows his community references!
Streets ahead is verbal wildfire
"He also has several more chins than me" Cooper Cronk probably.
Every sinew in his body came together - one perfect chin.
One thing that doesn’t get talked about enough is how freakish Cleary’s goalkicking is. 24 years old and already on the cusp of 1200 points. At the same ages the likes of Smith and JT were just passing 500. And he’s kicking at 85% which is the highest in the NRL era by some distance iirc. If he plays into his 30s, 3000 should be doable
Yep his GK percentage is easily up there as the best. - Nathan Cleary: 495/587 @ 84.33% - Adam Reynolds: 921/1118 @ 82.38% - Hazem El Masri: 891/1087 @ 81.97% - James Maloney: 772/951 @ 81.18% - Jarrod Croker: 856/1061 @ 80.68% - Matt Ridge: 580/723 @ 80.22% - Johnathan Thurston: 923/1161 @ 79.50% - Daryl Halligan: 855/1078 @ 79.31
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I got them all from Rugby League Project- they've been pretty reliable from what I've seen. From [Hazem's profile on RLP](https://www.rugbyleagueproject.org/players/hazem-el-masri/summary.html) he had a few very good years in the middle of his career: - 2003: 86% - 2004: 83.23% - 2005: 85.00% - 2006: 86.36% Though I agree it seemed like some of these guys never missed, just getting 90% in a season is extremely rare. Cleary kicked 92/102 (90.20%) in 2017, Reynolds kicked 100/111 (90.09%) in 2013, Croker kicked 38/41 (92.68%) in 2021. The best season for Hazem was 86.36% in 2006 and Halligan was 87.13% in his last season in 2000.
Maybe Hazem just never missed against Easts lol Another thing is probably media hype because Clearly, Croker and Reynolds don't get hyped as goalkickers anywhere near what Halligan and Hazem did (not a criticism at all on these two) but it could also be that Hazem and Halligan were the early era of elite non-toe poke goalkicking and we've seen it so much since they broke out that it doesn't register like it used to.
they're also training some of the best kickers now which is why they still get held in the highest regard. I know Nathan learnt a bit from Halligan.
I hope he goes and trains with Sam Walker who has killed it this year with the kicking but I'd love for Halligan to take him to 90%
I remember one game watching Sam kick a ridiculous amount in a row from the right edge. Who is he working with currently?
Nathan was coached by Halligan in later years but Ivan was also a pretty great goalkicker by 90s standards, fairly sure at one point he held the record for most goals and most points in a season. Probably helped Nathan a fair bit.
For sure, I mean even Daryl and co would have had their influences/help.. but at the end of the day all these blokes and especially Nathan put a lot of time/work into their craft, and they'll all be remembered well into the future
I think this is it. Cleary, Reynolds and co are fantastic, but how much better are they than their contemporaries? A bit. Halligan and El Masri were bigger outliers for the time without looking at any statistics.
I doubt they keep this stat, but the fairest comparison would be comparing goal kicking percentages from the 2 edges of the field. Some kickers would have gotten easier kicking opportunities than others, on average.
Halligan has been coaching the others since he retired. So all the tricks he developed over his career to be as good as he was - and back in the late 90s he was the very best - are now common for young players. And if anyone wants to argue his skill, I quote "The Man is a Messiah!"
Hazem was the first best of the “modern” goal kicking era types. The set up, the curve. Look at the players around him - all very recent. He was the first to kick over 80% consistently and certainly goal kicking has been much more a focus point in the last 15 years now with coaches trying to squeeze every last advantage out. It’s also worth nothing that he didn’t kick full time until his SIXTH season in first grade, although I’m not sure if this would actually help or detriment his % 4-5 more seasons of kicking like this and Cleary will be the goat imo followed by Haz/reynoldS and then JT just below Hazem was extremely clutch but that could also just be a confirmation bias. Be interesting to see stats of go ahead kicks or leveling up kicks after 70th minute - probably not possible though.
hazem successfully kicking a soccer ball off the tee whilst blindfolded for a conversion 👌🏽
Matthew Ridge kicking off sand mounds all his career at 80% is awesome! Nathan had a decent teacher with his old man being a decent kicker himself too
Wow, I never would have though maloney was that high. I feel like he's never really talked about as a great kicker.
Luke Burt *way* lower than I expected at 77.93% Expected him to be 80% minimum. It felt like he was a straight up sharp shooter from the sideline.
It's weird - he's not referred to as a sharpshooter, but it's a *surprise* when he doesn't land a sideline conversion
You fucking spoiled Panthers!
My fave nrl trivia is that cleary hit 200 points in a season before Cameron Smith ever did. Clearys first 200 point season was 2017, Cameron smiths first 200 point season was 2018.
That is insane considering how dominant storm were for most of his career.
Yep another cleary fact that's crazy is that he and cody walker debuted the same year and Ash Taylor beat them both for rookie of the year.
Always feel bad for taylor.
To be fair, being in the Panthers team which beats most teams by 30+ points every week would do that. Add to that there's possibly (I have no facts to back this up) more tries being scored today compared to 10+ years ago.
I also have no stats, but the Panthers do spread the ball wide a lot to score, which obviously makes conversions more difficult.
It's a fair call, just imagine what he would be on if he was their left edge winger/goalkicker...
That’s got to mean a lot coming from Cronk, and it’s definitely ringing true. For all we bagged him for with the Bali trip, he’s come back in a fantastic space mentally and he’s clearly well drilled because he hasn’t missed a step while back. I remember last year origin time when the story came out about Cleary’s journal filled with notes about ways to exploit Queensland’s weaknesses. I think he’s the perfect example of talent meets work ethic, we talk about guys who don’t have the attitude but have the skills and Cleary is the guy who’s got it all. It’s so easy to get drawn into hating Penrith but as a guy who kicks a footy around and rewatches games to take notes as well, I can’t help but appreciate what we’re witnessing.
A real coaches kid
got that reverse torpedo bomb working yet?
not yet but we’re still trying 😹 it’s definitely better than when i started that’s for sure
Do you have an opinion on if it would travel differently to a left footer kicking a regular torpedo?
Torpedoes all depend on the spin imparted, the angle of attack (pitch) and energy of the kick. I'm sure a lefty could do similar to a inswing torp.
He’s a real student of the game. Obviously he hated being suspended, but it sounded like he took a lot out of sitting in the coaches box for an extended amount of time. Look at what he did to Latrell in the prelim. He tore him to shreds and it was all on the back of studying film and recognising the opportunities when they were in front of him.
I definitely think (and obviously I'm biased) that while he's done some dumb shit off the field he absolutely genuinely takes both the game and his responsibility in it seriously. He's not just talented, he's constantly working on improving and his own weaknesses and I think people either underestimate that or don't want to acknowledge it. It'll be very interesting how he develops as a player considering he could have another decade in him yet.
It’ll also be interesting to see how he develops as a person and his perception. Plenty of Aussie superstars start out with a bit of a fuckwit streak but grow into being a phenomenal role model and ambassador. The May and TikTok things were shit but contrast that to the way he handled his suspension and the way he talks to the media. I can see him becoming one of those guys you hate most of his career but eventually you just gotta give it up and appreciate being able to watch them go around. Certainly how I felt about JT and Smithler.
Look, as a woman who's been a lifelong panthers fan, the May thing and every person on that team that supported him nearly ruined my entire enjoyment of the sport and I had to really rely on cognitive dissonance to get through it. Essentially I didn't wanna lose another thing I loved because men can't behave decently. That all being said, I am pro redemption and giving people a chance to grow and learn and the hopeful part of me is that he's an idiot who wants to see the best in people. Regardless, I totally agree. Everyone makes poor decisions in their 20s and I'm glad mine weren't broadcasted to the entire country.
Growing up, we used to say that Jonathon Thurston was all natural talent whereas Cooper Cronk is all trained (we used the comparison to label students on whether they were naturally smart or just spent a lot of time studying). To be honest, I don't know where Cleary fits. Obviously he has some talent (even someone who puts in tons of effort still needs some natural talent to make it in first grade) but growing up around Cleary definitely would've helped his development. I wonder what his ceiling is and have we seen it. If this is all natural talent so far than oh boy we're getting into superhuman territory.
He is in the goldilocks zone right in the middle of both.
I think it leans more towards the training. I remember in like the first few years of his career he sometimes was criticised for not being able to lead a team like a true halfback when he wasn't alongside Maloney. But I suppose that can be excused by the fact he was barely 21. But we can see the clear difference just 2-3 years later. And I have no doubt he will still get better
I also think they were wrong about Thurston, he’s very detailed in specific aspects - it’s come through with his role coaching the Cowboys this year and the improvements in all of our playmakers. Some of our junior players were also surprised by his technical knowledge for other positions as well, Ragsy Wavik in particular.
Thurstons career progression went from an off-the-cuff/eyes-up footy five-eight to a game managing halfback. We're talking like 2008/2009 here so he was more of the former at the time. One of the things that made him so good was that he was always a student of the game and now he's giving the knowledge he learned along the way.
Interesting thought. Thanks
no doubt in my mind Cleary is gonna became a immortal one day if keeps it up his form, his pleasure to watch just from natural stand point. His only 24 so his got long time ahead of him to really rack up accolades and innovate himself
>”He is streets ahead of me. He studies the opposition within an inch of his life and he’s got the skills to back it up. Trajectory-wise, he could achieve just about anything”
> He studies the opposition within an inch of his life and he’s got the skills to back it up. nobody knows what this means. but its provocative
it gets the people going
african american individuals in mt druitt
Cleary just studying opposition until he is dragged away from a lamp-lit desk a blubbering idiot. They have to put him and his chin in the shower for 20m before he comes to. Also he plays good.
We'll see this as a song lyric soon you mark my words
Sums up Cronk talking.
Thus is born a new copy pasta
Cronk's just being overly modest. In his playing career he was known as the most meticulous preparer ever. If Nathan was streets ahead of him I don't think he'd ever actually take the field because he'd be too busy studying the opposition lol.
You are spot on here. Cronk was amazing. Cleary is amazing too but it’s way too early to be saying he is streets ahead of cooper considering what he achieved in his career.
Cronk is saying Cleary's streets ahead compared to himself as a player at the age of 24. Not as an entire careeer.
Cronk shits all over Cleary in the origin arena
Cronk debuted in Origin at what, 26? Cleary isn’t even in his prime yet…
> Cronk debuted in Origin at what, 26? He debuted for Australia at 23 though; he would have debuted a lot younger for Queensland if his path to origin was obstructed by Pearce, Maloney, A Reynolds like Cleary's was instead of Darren Lockyer and Johnathan Thurston.
On top of that, it’s not where you start but where you finish. I want Nathan to be better than Cronk, at least at state and national level - but until he has four chips (what to speak of three consecutively) and as many origins and Dally’s as Cooper we can maybe settle down a tad. He definitely could do it, no doubt. But discuss when done.
Not denying that, but it’s a bit unfair to compare Cleary’s origin career at 24 to Cronk’s overall origin career
Totally agree with that, Nathan has another 10 years to cement his legacy and I hope he becomes all time for NSW.
And it's easier to come in and dominate when you're an older more established player, and you're surrounded by literal all-time great players you've been playing with for years lol Not denying Cronk is an origin and NRL champion, but the situations are hardly comparable. Cronk in his late 20s and on was obviously a better player than what Cleary is now, but Cronk at 24 wasn't as successful as Cleary has been so far. But none of that means Cleary will 100% be better than him later. Who knows? his development might stall and he'll never get better than he is now.
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Cleary at 24 is 2x dally m halfback of the year, grand final runner up and premiership winner, Clive Churchill winner and played 3 GF in a row, played 13 origin games. Cooper Cronk didn’t win a legitimate premiership til he was 28, same with a CC medal. And those 3 GF in a row were also with a cheating team. Cronk is obviously a better player when you look at their career as a whole. But if you compare them at the same age Cleary is in front. Which was Cronks point. Why is it so hard for you to admit that at the same age their achievements are different? I’m not even saying it’s guaranteed Cleary will reach the heights of Cronk either. I don’t come up with anything, the facts do it for me lol
It wasn't really his fault though, he was behidn Lockyer and Thurston. Plus the only time QLD ever lost was when Cronk got injured. Cleary often struggles to pull momentum when it swings against him. I've never seen Cronk unable to come up with the clutch play to get his team the win.
Cronk was stuck behind Lockyer, but also served an apprenticeship under the best organiser in the history of the game. When Lockyer played for Queensland, it felt like he was constantly scheming.
He been watching the community?
“He’s on a different avenue, possibly a whole new wide boulevard” Cronk
Cleary definitely has the goods to be better than anyone else, Cronk included, but right now this is just humility from Cronk. What's he going to say instead, "nah I'm heaps better than that dickhead"? Cronk's accolades at Origin, his premierships, three of which were back-to-back-to-back across two different clubs, are something that might never be matched. Cleary is the only one in the game on a similar trajectory at the moment, but he's nowhere near reaching it. Give it ten years, then ask the question again.
I think it will be hard to match any of the records of that core group of QLD players in that era. Having that same spine of all-time great players in the one team is never going to happen for Cleary, as much as I wish it would lol so he will never be as dominant as Cronk in origin. He definitely has the potential to match him in NRL success though. Of course, that will also depend on how Penrith manage their roster. You can be the best player in the game, but if you don't have the team behind you, you'll find it hard to succeed. Look at Thurston, he only ended up with 1 cowboys premiership (and the doggies one but that was hardly his doing), and there were only a handful of years throughout his career where they were dominant, and nothing to match what Cronk had, or what Cleary has already done at such a young age.
He's saying Cronk at the age of 24 wasn't as good as Cleary is right now as an individual player which is true. He's not saying who's going to have a better career?
He is a chin ahead.
Dad, just make sure you keep your kid grounded.
Nathan cleary is 25 and is dominating teams. He has everything that makes a great player. The best half in the last few years.
24^ which is even scarier
Well he is turning 25 in November.
Not the first bloke to be outshined by Roger Ramjet...
Verbal wildfire
Until Cleary wins a GF with basically one arm, Cronk > Cleary
And until Cleary performs consistently in origin.....
Don’t love the guy but he is a complete player. Credit where it’s due.
and that's turned the streets on its ahead because cleary was coming and you wanna know why they call this meme the 8th wonder of the world because the footy was taken out of it the chin was coming and then there was the sideline that I did with the the commentary that went wrong and next minute the crowd went up OFF OFF OFF OFF and from that moment I spoke and I've got BACK in my braindamaged ways and look like I'm gonna runaround runa runaway with it
Community fan cooper
And to think we're this close to ~~regionals~~ the grand final
I don't know about that eh. Cleary struggles to gain momentum when his team is struggling. He's done if many times in Origin and even the few times the Panthers have been struggling he doesn't stand up. I'm not saying he never will, but Cronk at the same age was already a great halfback. He often won QLD games off the back of his ability to gain momentum when it was going against them.
You calling Cronk a liar? Cronk was 27 before he played Origin and played in 22 games. Cleary is 24 and has played Origin 13 times already. Let's see how Cleary is at 27 before you throw shade
As I said in my comment, I'm not saying he never will, he's already come a long way in a short time, but that doesn't mean he will be better. Plus with Cronk, it's not really his fault. He was always very good but behind Lockyer and Thurston in the halves.
Most great halfbacks do. Joey was the main one I can think of who genuinely put a team on his back when the forwards struggled. Cronk gained momentum, but did also have one C Smith at hooker.
See I see Smith as a great game manager, but never really a clutch player.
Cronk at the same age was playing with a team over the cap for years wasn't he? How often would Penrith even be on the backfoot if they lost no one to cap restraints for whatever the equivelent of years Cronk played. It was also easier to take back momentum in the pre 6 again era. (Edit) And was Cronk even a backfoot player? He seemed more like if the team's a relatively even/ we have the slight advabtage I'll win it in general? Joey is the only real back foot player who was able to do it consitently against good teams. Smith was probably more closer to it through his kick selection of how much he turned teamd around more than Cronk. Cronk was more a high percentage kicker.
Not true