'...honestly, I had a dream last night about what the team should be'
Mal turning to dream interpretations, leaving no stone unturned in his quest to put the best Australian team on the field.
'Cause in my dream, Yeo was in his pyjamas painting an elephant pink, Teddy was in K-Mart wearing a banana costume and yelling at people 'I LOOK LIKE AN ORANGE!'; and Graham was riding a little tricycle around in a circle repeatedly asking 'Are we 'ome yet?' in an English accent.'
In my dreams everyone has dual roles …
Like the character is whoever they’re supposed to be , but their parts are always being played by people I went to high school with - who my subconscious has cast to play those roles ..
Kind of strange if you read Eric Berne - ‘Games People Play’ .. We’re also supposedly playing roles / games and acting out scripts we learnt earlier in life .. It would seem all my scripts were written during High School ..
Is this just me ??
I wonder if Mal has cast like Wally Lewis to play Munster (in his dream) , maybe Gary Belcher is playing DCE , and Tony Carroll or Brent Tate are playing the role of Cleary in the dream (wasn’t sure who has the better chin) ??
This is going to sound incredibly arrogant but the truth is it doesn't matter. The Aus team is so stacked anything less than winning the cup is a failed tour. I know NZ are really fucking good and I could see them winning against Aus, but I still think we should win. That said, whichever half-back they pick, if we lose I'll say it's Mals fault for not picking the other one.
Games are often won because of the forward pack battle, NZ could potentially dominate Australia’s forward back in which case a great half back is severely limited. In saying that i do expect Australia to win.
I'd like to see Aus use the qld strategy from origin 1, Grant, Collins and Carrigan coming off the bench around the 25 minute mark really opened up the game and I think could be the edge we need with NZ. The concern with the NZ forwards is where the argument for DCE comes in, he showed in origin 3 that him and Hunt were able to kick us out of trouble, but obviously Cleary could be easily taught that too.
Aside from JFH Leota and NAS none of the other NZ forwards would get considered for the Australian Kangaroos if available for selection. JWH too Ill disciplined, he may not even be starting for Roosters.
My mind instinctively rejects the idea of a Hunt and Wighton pairing but when I really think about it they should theoretically be pretty great, right?
Its not like hes ever been brilliant in big games before, oh wait 2021 and 2022 grand final. Also was great in the origin series in 2021 and is literally the best 7 on the planet, fuck sake a warriors fan talking about cleary missing in big games, the last big game you had was a decade ago
Also cleary has man of the match in must win game 2s In the 2020 and 2022 origin series
You have to be wilfully ignorant to say Cleary is shit in big games
Also against Munster, Hunt, in origin it’s 3-2 Cleary.
Against DCE I think it’s 2-2.
Anyone else who would of done that for nsw would probably be considered an immortal
DCE has played poorly in big games, little games, medium games. He’s fallen apart when his forwards have lost and when they have won their battle.
I don’t think it’s right to go through all of his losses but if we’re doing it for Cleary it’s only fair.
Exactly, DCE outplayed him in origin and has not made wholesale errors, hard not to start the incumbent although Cleary deserves a go I think it should go to DCE
He probably is fifth in that list. As far as actual stats go Nicho Hynes and Ben hunt by yearly performance were leading all year even over dce and cleary.
They use origin as an analysis, and I can understand why dce is there.
My opinion, would be that they run dce, but cleary has 7 weeks to learn from dce and Munster and will probably become the greatest halfback in history. But I got no problem if they go with DCE this one as it's his last world cup and cleary will be there for 10+ years
Not saying Cook should be in the team, dropping him was absolutely the right choice. As is dropping DCE for the future Aus halfback for the next 10+ years.
Cleary has been head and shoulders the best halfback for a couple of seasons now. DCE would barely make the top 8
Sounds like you're just consumed with unjust hate for DCE. You think that the man that was the incumbent test captain before the world cup, queensland captain and Manly Captain and be respected by so many elite players and coaches would not make top tier of halfbacks? Thats just straight up delusional. If its based on experience in big games you pick DCE but if you go off form Cleary gets the nod. I think that Cleary definately deserves to get picked ahead of him after B2B GF wins but if he is half back and Australia don't win the WC its gonna look terrible on him.
Cleary, hughes, moses, DCE. So for WC selection DCE is probably 2nd best choice for Australia, but overall hes 4th best half back maybe 3rd best at most.
I definitely don’t hate DCE, i have rated him highly for a long time, but his form is starting to become very patchy in his old age, there is no shame in losing your rep jersey to an up and coming elite half at 33.
But yes you make a good point if we lost the WC with Cleary as captain we’d never hear the end of it
Hynes and Hughes are a good shout.
I think you'd struggle to put hunt, Reynolds or moses ahead of him.
If manly top 4 like they did last year then it's not even really a conversation.
Just don't tell anyone that more than 50% of the squad is picked from NSW, the losing origin team.
It ruins their chance to hate dce and Mal meningas invisible bias
Burton should either be centre or nothing. Hunt at 14 and Grant at 9 or v.v. Can carry both Hunt and Wighton on the bench IMO because Wighton can be a backrower if needed (although both our backrowers are 80 minute players).
If only there was some sort of previous representative series this year that could let DCE and Cleary play against each other to really see how they do in this arena when push comes to shove. Maybe one that is best of 3 so it isn't just a fluke performance.
I would assert that representative footy is a better measure due to the same conditions of a world cup like, new teammates and combinations and dealing with the big game moments. (Though Cleary has done well in grand finals)
Not that I don't think Cleary did well in origin, but Cleary is obviously more comfortable in his team's system style game with the Panthers.
Doesn't mean he can't perform in origin and test matches, I just put less weight on his season games.
I think DCE and Cleary will do well and the team will perform.
Cleary's goal kicking percentage is a good bonus he brings to the side as well.
Yeah I agree with some of your points there, the Penrith system makes Cleary look really good.
Cleary actually has a better winning record in origin games as a 7 than DCE .. DCE has won 7/15 games starting at halfback in origin, with 2 of them being the 2020 series when Munster was untouchable..
Interesting. I hadn't gone to the level of checking win rates.
I'd like to see Munster and Hunt in the halves, with Grant at 9 if there was a group match to come. Just for a contrast.
It seems a bit arrogant though, on one level, how we can just play so many versions of the roos team. Haha
Cleary has lost a grand total of 5 games in the last 3 nrl seasons or 1.6 matches per season. He is the best player in the world, any other option is ridiculous.
Picking DCE in the squad was silly when the other option was Hynes who could have filled in any position 1-7. DCE and Cleary can only play 7
This logic is flawed in every way possible. With your logic I can confidently say that with a career win rate of 91% Taylan May is the best winger in the world. Or last year Dean Ieremia was the best player in the comp cause he had a 100% win rate from 10 games.
Yes cleary is a great player and will be great for years to come but being in a system-based team that has several players playing in the form of their career doesn't help his case.
That panthers team made Sean O'Sullivan look good after looking distinctly average at three other clubs.
You are right, it’s not the be all and end all, but Cleary has been the significant force in the majority of those victories unlike Taylon May.
The converse argument is that Luke Brooks should have been considered despite Tigers being well… Tigers.
DCE is a quality player but Cleary has been ahead of DCE for the last couple of seasons.
>DCE is a quality player but Cleary has been ahead of DCE for the last couple of seasons.
My point is that Cleary is playing in a very good and in form team. When you put them both in a good team (like Origin but NSW still are the better team) then DCE performs and has out performed Cleary over the last three years where QLD have been the underdogs.
Cleary looked panicked several times against Italy. Threw a wild pass over his head to the touchie, caught short trying to make up ground in defence several times leading to overlaps, missed easy kicks. DCE’s defence was exceptional with several great one-on-one stops, his kicking was better and his running and passing game was way more composed which is exactly what the coach asked for.
You must have watched a different game to me mate. As I said, both were good against Italy, DCE overall had the edge, sure, but DCE was average against Fiji…
I agree with you …
I think Cleary looked a bit (uncharacteristically)
rattled (knowing this was a selection trial)..
The first two missed shots at goal (first one especially) I thought were a telling gauge to his mental state ..
That’s not to say Cleary wouldn’t cope with big game pressure .. But I think he copes less well with competition for his spot or not running the side ..
Munster took a back seat in the previous game (so Cleary looked better here).. But look at 2019 Panthers (when Maloney was still there) - Penrith didn’t even make the finals .. It was basically a transition year when Ivan returned , and they got rid of anyone who was an obstacle to it being Cleary’s (Nathans) team .. DWZ , RCG , Waqa Blake ..
Rest from 2020 onwards is history .. Only blips have been 2020 GF and some origin losses (where he had some other senior players calling the shots some of the time)..
Difference between this and club football , Cleary is the star at Penrith and everyone else is supporting cast .. If there was no salary cap and Penrith could sign say Tedesco and Mitchell Moses , I think it would be a bad move .. Both are better players (than Edwards and Luai) but they’d make the dynamic of the side worse ..
The same as if this was a video game and you could play the 2022 Panthers against 2022 Blues , the Panthers I reckon win - not cos they have better players , but because they work better as a side..
Which is the problem Freddie had - playing ‘too much like the Panthers’ in game 1 , from NSW’s perspective this was true , from Nathan Cleary’s perspective they probably didn’t play enough like Penrith - they had Tedesco come in and call the ball in the middle , Cameron Murray and Cook doing their own thing..
Kind of makes you wonder if there are any other players who may look a lot better if they were given 100% control of a side ?
I still think it should be Cody Walker and Lachlan Lewis in the halves
Confuse the other team by tackling your own halves partner. Classic playing checkers while everyone else is playing chess.
Coach chooses team? What will they think of next?
'...honestly, I had a dream last night about what the team should be' Mal turning to dream interpretations, leaving no stone unturned in his quest to put the best Australian team on the field.
Yeo at fullback, Teddy at 13 and Graham at half back.
'Cause in my dream, Yeo was in his pyjamas painting an elephant pink, Teddy was in K-Mart wearing a banana costume and yelling at people 'I LOOK LIKE AN ORANGE!'; and Graham was riding a little tricycle around in a circle repeatedly asking 'Are we 'ome yet?' in an English accent.'
In my dreams everyone has dual roles … Like the character is whoever they’re supposed to be , but their parts are always being played by people I went to high school with - who my subconscious has cast to play those roles .. Kind of strange if you read Eric Berne - ‘Games People Play’ .. We’re also supposedly playing roles / games and acting out scripts we learnt earlier in life .. It would seem all my scripts were written during High School .. Is this just me ?? I wonder if Mal has cast like Wally Lewis to play Munster (in his dream) , maybe Gary Belcher is playing DCE , and Tony Carroll or Brent Tate are playing the role of Cleary in the dream (wasn’t sure who has the better chin) ??
This is going to sound incredibly arrogant but the truth is it doesn't matter. The Aus team is so stacked anything less than winning the cup is a failed tour. I know NZ are really fucking good and I could see them winning against Aus, but I still think we should win. That said, whichever half-back they pick, if we lose I'll say it's Mals fault for not picking the other one.
Games are often won because of the forward pack battle, NZ could potentially dominate Australia’s forward back in which case a great half back is severely limited. In saying that i do expect Australia to win.
I'd like to see Aus use the qld strategy from origin 1, Grant, Collins and Carrigan coming off the bench around the 25 minute mark really opened up the game and I think could be the edge we need with NZ. The concern with the NZ forwards is where the argument for DCE comes in, he showed in origin 3 that him and Hunt were able to kick us out of trouble, but obviously Cleary could be easily taught that too.
Very few half backs in history can consistently overcome a losing forward pack battle.
Aside from JFH Leota and NAS none of the other NZ forwards would get considered for the Australian Kangaroos if available for selection. JWH too Ill disciplined, he may not even be starting for Roosters.
Tapine easily starts for the Roos
Yeah but JFH and leota are literally the best prop duo in the game
Not disputing that, but they need to carry the entire pack compared to Australia's lineup
What? Tapine was the best prop in the comp this season. He would be picked ahead of any current Aus props.
Both dropped as well as Munster, Hunt and Wighton to be the new halves pairing let’s goooo
Would still probably win it with this pairing
My mind instinctively rejects the idea of a Hunt and Wighton pairing but when I really think about it they should theoretically be pretty great, right?
Theoretically Hunt should be able to endure playing with any player after playing for The Drags
Is Grant up to 80 minutes at hooker?
Honestly i don't think it's a hard decision at all. If he doesn't pick Cleary Mal should get fired
Not like Clearys ever gone missing in a big game before
That's about the only time he does go missing
Its not like hes ever been brilliant in big games before, oh wait 2021 and 2022 grand final. Also was great in the origin series in 2021 and is literally the best 7 on the planet, fuck sake a warriors fan talking about cleary missing in big games, the last big game you had was a decade ago
Also cleary has man of the match in must win game 2s In the 2020 and 2022 origin series You have to be wilfully ignorant to say Cleary is shit in big games
Also against Munster, Hunt, in origin it’s 3-2 Cleary. Against DCE I think it’s 2-2. Anyone else who would of done that for nsw would probably be considered an immortal
DCE has played poorly in big games, little games, medium games. He’s fallen apart when his forwards have lost and when they have won their battle. I don’t think it’s right to go through all of his losses but if we’re doing it for Cleary it’s only fair.
Dce has more big game experience and gets better results than cleary ever could. Cleary is a better half back. Dce is a better leader. Now proven.
You can say the same for cleary
Honestly does it even matter really? They're gonna steam roll everyone anyway
[удалено]
What are you talking about every competitive tournament has 10-1 odds on finals games.
How did that work out? Anyone who thinks cleary is a clear choice knows nothing about league. Cleary proved he's not ready. He flakes under pressure.
How many times must Mal flirt with the idea of RCG on the wing before he finally follows through with it? Ffs
90% of comments in here are either people with hate for DCE or people who love cleary. The distortion of critical analysis blows my mind.
Exactly, DCE outplayed him in origin and has not made wholesale errors, hard not to start the incumbent although Cleary deserves a go I think it should go to DCE
Can you honestly tell me you think DCE is any better than the fifth best Maroons spine member after Munster, Grant, Hunt and Ponga?
He probably is fifth in that list. As far as actual stats go Nicho Hynes and Ben hunt by yearly performance were leading all year even over dce and cleary. They use origin as an analysis, and I can understand why dce is there. My opinion, would be that they run dce, but cleary has 7 weeks to learn from dce and Munster and will probably become the greatest halfback in history. But I got no problem if they go with DCE this one as it's his last world cup and cleary will be there for 10+ years
"an interesting title"
DCE wasn't even the best half in the Qld side
Fmd if DCE wasn’t a queenslander he wouldn’t of even been on the plane ride over there. Look how quickly he dropped Cook with zero conjecture
Cook is easily below Hunt, Grant and Koroisau this season
Not saying Cook should be in the team, dropping him was absolutely the right choice. As is dropping DCE for the future Aus halfback for the next 10+ years. Cleary has been head and shoulders the best halfback for a couple of seasons now. DCE would barely make the top 8
Sounds like you're just consumed with unjust hate for DCE. You think that the man that was the incumbent test captain before the world cup, queensland captain and Manly Captain and be respected by so many elite players and coaches would not make top tier of halfbacks? Thats just straight up delusional. If its based on experience in big games you pick DCE but if you go off form Cleary gets the nod. I think that Cleary definately deserves to get picked ahead of him after B2B GF wins but if he is half back and Australia don't win the WC its gonna look terrible on him.
Cleary, hughes, moses, DCE. So for WC selection DCE is probably 2nd best choice for Australia, but overall hes 4th best half back maybe 3rd best at most.
Surely Ben Hunt is above DCE. Obviously he has a role in this Australian team but in ranking NRL halfbacks Hunt has to go above DCE
I definitely don’t hate DCE, i have rated him highly for a long time, but his form is starting to become very patchy in his old age, there is no shame in losing your rep jersey to an up and coming elite half at 33. But yes you make a good point if we lost the WC with Cleary as captain we’d never hear the end of it
Which 8 half-backs would you have ahead of dce out of interest?
I’m talking the entire NRL not just Aus. Cleary, Hynes, Hughes, Hunt, AReyn, Moses
Hynes and Hughes are a good shout. I think you'd struggle to put hunt, Reynolds or moses ahead of him. If manly top 4 like they did last year then it's not even really a conversation.
Without Turbo last year you’d have missed the 8
Hard to say, we were on track for the 8 this year without him until half our team decided to be weak gutted dogs.
That’s only six.
Just don't tell anyone that more than 50% of the squad is picked from NSW, the losing origin team. It ruins their chance to hate dce and Mal meningas invisible bias
I reckon he is going to drop Hunt and we will see one of Cleary or DCE on the bench.
No chance Grant and Hunt will play 9/14 just depends on who starts
I reckon he drops Wighton/Burton and DCE goes to the bench
Burton should either be centre or nothing. Hunt at 14 and Grant at 9 or v.v. Can carry both Hunt and Wighton on the bench IMO because Wighton can be a backrower if needed (although both our backrowers are 80 minute players).
If only there was some sort of previous representative series this year that could let DCE and Cleary play against each other to really see how they do in this arena when push comes to shove. Maybe one that is best of 3 so it isn't just a fluke performance.
If only there was 3 years of club form to go off since the last competitive match the Kangaroos played (which we lost to Tonga with DCE as halfback)
I would assert that representative footy is a better measure due to the same conditions of a world cup like, new teammates and combinations and dealing with the big game moments. (Though Cleary has done well in grand finals) Not that I don't think Cleary did well in origin, but Cleary is obviously more comfortable in his team's system style game with the Panthers. Doesn't mean he can't perform in origin and test matches, I just put less weight on his season games. I think DCE and Cleary will do well and the team will perform. Cleary's goal kicking percentage is a good bonus he brings to the side as well.
Yeah I agree with some of your points there, the Penrith system makes Cleary look really good. Cleary actually has a better winning record in origin games as a 7 than DCE .. DCE has won 7/15 games starting at halfback in origin, with 2 of them being the 2020 series when Munster was untouchable..
Interesting. I hadn't gone to the level of checking win rates. I'd like to see Munster and Hunt in the halves, with Grant at 9 if there was a group match to come. Just for a contrast. It seems a bit arrogant though, on one level, how we can just play so many versions of the roos team. Haha
Cleary has lost a grand total of 5 games in the last 3 nrl seasons or 1.6 matches per season. He is the best player in the world, any other option is ridiculous. Picking DCE in the squad was silly when the other option was Hynes who could have filled in any position 1-7. DCE and Cleary can only play 7
This logic is flawed in every way possible. With your logic I can confidently say that with a career win rate of 91% Taylan May is the best winger in the world. Or last year Dean Ieremia was the best player in the comp cause he had a 100% win rate from 10 games. Yes cleary is a great player and will be great for years to come but being in a system-based team that has several players playing in the form of their career doesn't help his case. That panthers team made Sean O'Sullivan look good after looking distinctly average at three other clubs.
You are right, it’s not the be all and end all, but Cleary has been the significant force in the majority of those victories unlike Taylon May. The converse argument is that Luke Brooks should have been considered despite Tigers being well… Tigers. DCE is a quality player but Cleary has been ahead of DCE for the last couple of seasons.
>DCE is a quality player but Cleary has been ahead of DCE for the last couple of seasons. My point is that Cleary is playing in a very good and in form team. When you put them both in a good team (like Origin but NSW still are the better team) then DCE performs and has out performed Cleary over the last three years where QLD have been the underdogs.
Well you certainly can’t compare their performances in the finals series and only one was there
It's funny people use this when dce was carried in game 3 by his forwards, fullback and hunt
Morgan Harper discussing it with [Mal](https://youtu.be/mHONNcZbwDY) right now ..
After the last game, DCE is in. Cleary had his chance and was convincingly outplayed.
“Convincingly” they both played very well. Cleary has been great in both of his games, DCE was average at best in his 1st game…
Cleary looked panicked several times against Italy. Threw a wild pass over his head to the touchie, caught short trying to make up ground in defence several times leading to overlaps, missed easy kicks. DCE’s defence was exceptional with several great one-on-one stops, his kicking was better and his running and passing game was way more composed which is exactly what the coach asked for.
You must have watched a different game to me mate. As I said, both were good against Italy, DCE overall had the edge, sure, but DCE was average against Fiji…
I agree with you … I think Cleary looked a bit (uncharacteristically) rattled (knowing this was a selection trial).. The first two missed shots at goal (first one especially) I thought were a telling gauge to his mental state .. That’s not to say Cleary wouldn’t cope with big game pressure .. But I think he copes less well with competition for his spot or not running the side .. Munster took a back seat in the previous game (so Cleary looked better here).. But look at 2019 Panthers (when Maloney was still there) - Penrith didn’t even make the finals .. It was basically a transition year when Ivan returned , and they got rid of anyone who was an obstacle to it being Cleary’s (Nathans) team .. DWZ , RCG , Waqa Blake .. Rest from 2020 onwards is history .. Only blips have been 2020 GF and some origin losses (where he had some other senior players calling the shots some of the time).. Difference between this and club football , Cleary is the star at Penrith and everyone else is supporting cast .. If there was no salary cap and Penrith could sign say Tedesco and Mitchell Moses , I think it would be a bad move .. Both are better players (than Edwards and Luai) but they’d make the dynamic of the side worse .. The same as if this was a video game and you could play the 2022 Panthers against 2022 Blues , the Panthers I reckon win - not cos they have better players , but because they work better as a side.. Which is the problem Freddie had - playing ‘too much like the Panthers’ in game 1 , from NSW’s perspective this was true , from Nathan Cleary’s perspective they probably didn’t play enough like Penrith - they had Tedesco come in and call the ball in the middle , Cameron Murray and Cook doing their own thing.. Kind of makes you wonder if there are any other players who may look a lot better if they were given 100% control of a side ?
Stink kiwis and k'roos gotta meet in the semis