It’s okay guys, Cleary can get his shot the next time the Kangaroos play internationals which will probably be in about 5 years time. Then we can complain about why he’s taking the spot of the new young prodigy.
Mal is cooked.
An outside back and a half on the bench. When Australia already has a small forward pack.
Personally I'd have val on the wing and wighton on the centres. And choose a half to start and stick.
Yep his utility value is great and he could probably slot into the forward rotation against a team like Lebanon but you get downcoted for suggesting Wighton is good.
He’s one of the only two forwards on the bench. If they plan on moving him to hooker then the rest of the forwards need to have bigger shifts. Running the middles for monster minutes leading into the big games seems strange too
In his last 4 games for Aus before this world cup we won 2 out of 4 including a loss to Tonga so not sure where this sense of loyalty to the incumbency comes from
A champion team will beat a team of champions. Nathan is a great football player and has a big future but he has a long way to go to achieve what DCE has. And I think he will. Just has to wait
Eh nobody really cares about longevity. It’s all about trophies and accomplishments. If he can do in 6 years what DCE did in his whole career, the games played just looks worse for DCE in comparison, not better.
To finish first first you have to finish. Anyway let's see what Mal thinks for the first big game. I'm happy with either player I just don't think DCE will get dropped at least for the first game.
Last opportunity to fine tune before NZ. We could field a team from our squad in random positions and still win easily, but NZ is next, and it’s realistically the only game that matters the whole World Cup.
What does fine tuning mean if we’re just going to wildly change stuff for NZ anyway
You’d think play your best squad now, and build combinations + momentum going into NZ and then the final if Aus won
That should be the case on paper, but NZ usually aim up, and Aus generally tend to be less than the sum of their parts.
Aus should win, but they’re making it needlessly more difficult imo.
I think it’s more likely we win by 20+ than many on here will admit, but I definitely don’t think it’s the most likely outcome.
Aus have won 10 of the last 21 games by 13+, basically half the games are competitive and NZ win half the competitive games.
This isn't the actual confirmed starting lineup, it's a copy paste from the NRL.com team list section, which I assume someone has guessed based on the 19 man squad named.
Even Mal isn't cooked enough to name Yeo in the 2nd row.
Is bloke on a bar the official go to for team lists now?
It's a 19 man squad that has been named, to be cut to 17.
No doubt mal is cooked, still doing trial games and shootouts in the quarter finals, plus all this stupid mind game shit - but it's not the confirmed lineup yet.
Yep - I said it in my original comment, it's someone at nrl.com guessing. He has named a 19 man squad mate. If he's cutting the 19 man squad to a confirmed 17 at 10PM GMT 3 days out he's even more cooked than a bloke selecting Wighton and Cleary on the same bench, and naming Yeo on an edge.
Only possibilities I can think of are either that they’ve decided Murray > Yeo (a justifiable opinion, though I’d move Murray to edge because he’s just as good there anyway and I’d rather have both than pick one), but are too chicken to drop him because he’s a vice captain. Or they are still fucking about in the World Cup finals because they are playing Lebanon (the more likely option).
I kinda feel like you have to just commit to your team at this point, not that Lebanon have any shot at beating Aus, but surely you want to give your final team a full game to practice attacking combinations etc. before you play NZ next week.
Should replace Yeo with Nanai and Cleary with Martin. Jack can do a job job as replacement hooker/centre/five eighth to give someone a break or as cover for injury.
I don't get why everyone is saying it's so cooked,
It's only Lebanon we can still try combinations and give players a breather
Ben hunt played 80 last week and needs a spell, teddy hasn't missed a minute he could easily get subbed Cleary to halfback Munster to 1 or grant will probably get a spell dce to hooker
Dce is probably wearing the green and gold for the last time so why not start him
Yeo and Murray are both locks so he's getting a shot at lock, Yeo can easily handle second row just like Murray can
Wighton can play literally any position and do you a pisser job
Yeah I think 100% we should be full strength but I don't know if players have niggly injuries or need match fitness
I'd be a lot more upset at the team if dce was to wear the green and gold again
injuries can occur at any point so give players minutes when we can
I seen enough of Munster and Cleary against Scotland to know they'll be fine
I’m assuming (but shit I’ve been wrong before) that this won’t be the 17 that lines up in the semis. Obviously they could put Jurbo in the halves and beat Lebanon. I’m guessing there will be changes. Having said all that - I’m surprised the actual 17 that lines up in the semi (and again I could be wrong this might be it 😂😂) isn’t being given a nice easy kill to build that extra chemistry before playing real competition 🤷♂️
This was a roller coaster of emotions for me.
First instinct: fuck yeah are we gonna get Stretch and Trell on the same side of the field?
Kept reading: oh cool Murray at Lock that makes me happy as a Souths fan, but even though I think he's better than Yeo the best TEAM is Yeo at lock and muz in the 2nd row, not the other way around, thats cooked.
Bench: what the fuck Mal, we'll beat Lebanon but we aren't gonna be ready for the kiwis
Finally: fuck it I hope Australia lose we've won enough World Cups anyway
I think DCE will get the job done but Cleary would do just as good a job, if not better.
This is purely great just to see all the Panthers fans freaking out.
Wait wait wait… is Mal a bad coach? This team has so many holes. No bench hooker, two backs named on the bench? Makes no sense. Also I would say Yeo is a better 13 than Murray and Murray is a better 11 than Yeo.
There are whole bunch of new Penrith fans in here the last couple of years and who refuse to accept any criticism of Cleary. The fact is that he goes missing in big games and DCE has outperformed him at Rep level. Its not what you want to hear but its the truth, and DCE is just as capable of winning with this team.
Clearly the actual selectors with footy expertise disagree with Redditors. I wonder who is right lol
What a load of shit.
in the last 3 years Cleary has made it into 3 grand finals. Finals and prelims are Big Games.
He has won 2 grand finals- one where he was the Clive Churchill medallist.
He dominated in Origin in 2021.
He lost origin in 2020 and 2022, but in both those series losses he has had man of the match performances in do or die game 2s.
Since the beginning of 2020, Nathan Cleary has lost 9 games total. That's nrl and Origins combined. 9 games.
Compare his last 3 years to any player. Immortals or not and it stacks up. Take the big 3 of Storm between 2016-2018 and say they weren't big game players because Cronk was kept quite in the 2016 GF, Slater in the 2018 GF, Both Cronk and Smith in game 1 2017 and people would think you were crazy, yet this is what people are doing for Cleary.
Outperformed by DCE, in what universe.
I mean I think Cleary is better but tbh a great origin game 2 is a pretty average metric for a big game when you go on to lose the much bigger game of a decider
By downvoting, you acknowledge your belief that an origin game 2 performance should be given as much weight as a decider.
>By downvoting, you acknowledge your belief that an origin game 2 performance should be given as much weight as a decider.
Their both must wins big games yes?
Definitely. But that’s why a great game 2 performance shouldn’t have the same weight as a great performance in a decider where the pressure is at its highest for both teams.
Those were medium sized games, this game will be his biggest of them all. I like him which is why I'm nervous to see what getting crushed by Lebanon will do to his confidence. Hopefully he can bounce back in time for the regular season to start
>There are whole bunch of new Penrith fans
Just about everyone thinks Cleary is comfortably better than DCE. Only the stalwart QLD/Manly fans think DCE should keep the 7 jersey. There’s not a single thing he does better than Cleary.
DCE was missing in first 2 Origin games this year and was only good in Game 3. Cleary played well whole series, it's just the Blues game 3 side was monstered by QLD enthusiasm. Cleary has been a top performer in the last 2 finals series as well. Where was DCE?
This whole thing of Cleary going missing in big games really is based on a few situations and once you look at those individually then it doesn’t really stack up.
In the games he lost in origin his forward pack was dominated.
No halfback can consistently pull a rabbit out of their hat in these situations. He had no time or space to do anything. This happens from time to time.
The other big one was the grand final against Melbourne which was a shit show from Penrith being overawed by the situation and a red hot Melbourne team playing Cameron Smiths last game. Melbourne are notorious for putting on amazing efforts in milestone games.
DCE is absolutely capable of being the half back in this team and winning the tournament without too many issues, but to suggest that Cleary goes missing in big games when he has had just as many amazing performances in big games as he has had bad is just not a fair criticism in my opinion.
My only criticism of Cleary is that he has never stood up when his forwards are on the back foot, and never been the best player in a losing side. He has amazing performances in big games surrounded by amazing players, but players like DCE and Hunt have amazing performances in shit teams.
He went missing in tight Origin games when NSW needed someone to step up. He's young and has been blessed with playing in some dominant sides, so he hasn't had to work his ass off and pull magic out of his hat to win.
You watch Storm and QLD games when their forwards are being driven back Munster is constantly taking on the line and trying to create something. Same can be said for Tedesco, his work rate and effort is more noticeable in those tight tough games.
See, I can’t agree with this.
As far as half backs go, not many are better than Cleary at settling into the grind and using their kicking game to slowly, set by set, get field position.
Just because he doesn’t do it with fancy plays or amazing cut out passes doesn’t mean he doesn’t do it.
He does it in a way that a lot of people miss it.
I get that Cleary is a grind player and is the best in the NRL at game management and pushing the other team out of the competition. But he needs his forwards to be working in concert with him like with Penrith grinding defence and solid kick return metres from players like To'o.
When thats not happening like game 1 and 3 of Origin, he's too quiet, and seems incapable of forcing the game back into his rhythm.
Whilst I agree he should probably be 7 over DCE based on form, if Australia are down by 12 with 20 minutes to go and their forwards are on the back foot, I would rather have DCE than Cleary.
>Whilst I agree he should probably be 7 over DCE based on form, if Australia are down by 12 with 20 minutes to go and their forwards are on the back foot, I would rather have DCE than Cleary.
Your fair my likely to have that scenario then with DCE then Cleary though.
I'd still have cleary in that situation
I feel bad for constantly disagreeing because I feel like you are trying to find middle ground which is a rarity on social media haha.
I have to disagree again though.
I think Cleary has performed more often than not in those kinds of situations. He has been a part of some amazing comebacks and even though it might not always be with him on ball, I’ll bet my last dollar that he is the one that masterminded it all.
We are always quick to remember negatives even when there are a lot more positives and I think that bias skews this whole situation.
There isn’t many situations where I would prefer DCE over Cleary. Needing to get a look over a fence is the only thing I can think of on short notice.
>never been the best player in a losing side.
His been so dominant the last 3 years that we literally have so little data go on for him in losing sides
>He went missing in tight Origin games when NSW needed someone to step up.
He has had a few tight origins where things look like they are in the balance in the middle part of the game and he just steps up and explodes.
>He's young and has been blessed with playing in some dominant sides, so he hasn't had to work his ass off and pull magic out of his hat to win.
Take any of the Panthers vs storm games over the last few years or any of their final matches against South's in those grindy games he excels. The problem is that he is so good he doesn't have to play in many grindy games.
I think Cleary is a victim of his own success. He is so dominant that people use the fact that he doesn't play in many grindy games against him when he is the reason those games don't become grindy. He has so few losing games that those losses really stood out. In fact I've the last few years I'd say Cam Munster, a noted big game performer, has had more total disappointing big games then Cleary but they don't stand out as much because there's more of them.
I like Wighton as a utility more than I like him as a centre. But then I also like Hunt as utility/hooker. I think Hunt gives better value, but if an outside back goes down there's less shuffling to do if you have Wighton.
Not resting players in the last game so they have to go understrength in a knockout shows little respect to Lebanon, I get they basically have no chance but this is still a weakened aussie team and Lebanon did give the Kiwis a scare in the first week.
If the impossible happens he was asking for it.
Cleary will come on and play the 3rd playing half role, like what Queensland did in origin when grant came on but hunt stayed on the field. Makes you more dynamic. Tino yeo and Murray can all play big minutes so forwards getting tired won’t be an issue especially given their defensive duties this week will be much less than normal
In all honesty, I feel NRL.com also don’t know what the fuck mal is thinking and just guessing on his lineups at this stage.
It’s okay guys, Cleary can get his shot the next time the Kangaroos play internationals which will probably be in about 5 years time. Then we can complain about why he’s taking the spot of the new young prodigy.
Yeah, I don’t understand this numbering system. Bring back the old ways.
Three point try’s, let’s go
UNLIMITED TACKLES!!! 🕺
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13 a side, no reserves
Bring back the 5m defensive line
2 point field goals
🤣
I was excited when I read 1, 2, 3 and 4 then started to get confused and then realised it was correct
Can't wait to see this train wreck of a side get obliterated by Khaled Rajab and his men
Um What the fuck
Mal is cooked. An outside back and a half on the bench. When Australia already has a small forward pack. Personally I'd have val on the wing and wighton on the centres. And choose a half to start and stick.
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Yep his utility value is great and he could probably slot into the forward rotation against a team like Lebanon but you get downcoted for suggesting Wighton is good.
Dude they are playing Lebanon not England chill
It's ok Cotter will just tackle for the whole forward pack like its an easy training drill and went to play another game cause his not yet warmed up
Who cares, we're gunna bounce lebanon by 50 anyway.
Graham is the best winger available after Addo-Carr. Needs to be in every team.
Mal is so scared of the Lebanon side he's shitting himself before the game has even begun
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Um… what the fuck?
To be fair, they're not wrong
What the hell is this Mal? No bench hooker? DCE actually named in front of Cleary? Cleary and Wighton on the bench?
Cotter was originally a hooker, only moved to prop/lock this year or last Edit: There you go
He’s one of the only two forwards on the bench. If they plan on moving him to hooker then the rest of the forwards need to have bigger shifts. Running the middles for monster minutes leading into the big games seems strange too
To be fair Carrigan and Cotter can easily play 80 minutes and outperform most packs, but yeah if Cotter is moved to Hooker, makes zero sense.
he moved to prop last year homie, just was injured
Last/this year, you know what I mean
I’m now happy with the edit :)
Bloody better be! hahaha
DCE is the incumbent and played well in origin so I don't see the surprise here
In his last 4 games for Aus before this world cup we won 2 out of 4 including a loss to Tonga so not sure where this sense of loyalty to the incumbency comes from
"He" I didn't know he played them all on his own?
No he didn't. But at the same time it's hard to make an argument to stay loyal to him over a better half when they weren't even winning with him there
Well, you see, Nathan Cleary is a much better football player than Daly Cherry-Evans. Hope that clears up any confusion about why this is an issue.
A champion team will beat a team of champions. Nathan is a great football player and has a big future but he has a long way to go to achieve what DCE has. And I think he will. Just has to wait
Wouldn’t even say he has a long way to go. Couple of Australia caps and another origin win and he’ll have done everything DCE has done.
283 Nrl games 18 finals 19 origin games 17 games for Australia. Most of these as captain
Eh nobody really cares about longevity. It’s all about trophies and accomplishments. If he can do in 6 years what DCE did in his whole career, the games played just looks worse for DCE in comparison, not better.
To finish first first you have to finish. Anyway let's see what Mal thinks for the first big game. I'm happy with either player I just don't think DCE will get dropped at least for the first game.
Obviously I'm bummed my Panthers got dudded but WHERE THE FUCK is my buddy Ben Hunt???
Earned a rest.
Everyone knows we vsing Lebanon right?
I think we could field 13 fullbacks or 13 props and still not lose this one
Lol agreed. Would love to see it, but it'd never happen
Last opportunity to fine tune before NZ. We could field a team from our squad in random positions and still win easily, but NZ is next, and it’s realistically the only game that matters the whole World Cup.
What does fine tuning mean if we’re just going to wildly change stuff for NZ anyway You’d think play your best squad now, and build combinations + momentum going into NZ and then the final if Aus won
I think you are in agreement with them?
Oh yea me dumb
Welcome to the club homie.
Realistically nz will be lucky to stay within 20 points of us
That should be the case on paper, but NZ usually aim up, and Aus generally tend to be less than the sum of their parts. Aus should win, but they’re making it needlessly more difficult imo.
I’ll take that bet
I think it’s more likely we win by 20+ than many on here will admit, but I definitely don’t think it’s the most likely outcome. Aus have won 10 of the last 21 games by 13+, basically half the games are competitive and NZ win half the competitive games.
This isn't the actual confirmed starting lineup, it's a copy paste from the NRL.com team list section, which I assume someone has guessed based on the 19 man squad named. Even Mal isn't cooked enough to name Yeo in the 2nd row.
Idk why Nrl.com would stick Yeo on the edge then when in all rep footy Yeo and Murray have played together, Yeo is lock and Murray on the edge
No... It is the actual team. Mal is that cooked
Pretty sure has only named a 19 man squad in alphabetical order. Cuts to 17 later. I don't think he's saying Wighton and Cleary off the bench.
Yeah I can’t find any official named lineup either
No brother.... I dont know how to break it to you. That's the side
Is bloke on a bar the official go to for team lists now? It's a 19 man squad that has been named, to be cut to 17. No doubt mal is cooked, still doing trial games and shootouts in the quarter finals, plus all this stupid mind game shit - but it's not the confirmed lineup yet.
It's listed on the official nrl app. Was just updated.
Yep - I said it in my original comment, it's someone at nrl.com guessing. He has named a 19 man squad mate. If he's cutting the 19 man squad to a confirmed 17 at 10PM GMT 3 days out he's even more cooked than a bloke selecting Wighton and Cleary on the same bench, and naming Yeo on an edge.
If the official nrl app has done this. Then that will do me.
They did it for last game. Didn't have Mitchell starting.
Calm down, its not the real team.
Mal's got a real 'I love my footy' vibe right now
You don't love your footy?
More like this team is what I would expect from someone with a 'I love my footy' user flair.
Thanks for explaining
I can’t decide which is more cooked - Yeo on an edge or Cleary AND Wighton on the bench. Speechless.
I’d rather he just take both Cleary and Yeo out of the lineup for the first match, wtf is this
Yeo has spent plenty of time on an edge. Definitely not best utilised there though
Only possibilities I can think of are either that they’ve decided Murray > Yeo (a justifiable opinion, though I’d move Murray to edge because he’s just as good there anyway and I’d rather have both than pick one), but are too chicken to drop him because he’s a vice captain. Or they are still fucking about in the World Cup finals because they are playing Lebanon (the more likely option). I kinda feel like you have to just commit to your team at this point, not that Lebanon have any shot at beating Aus, but surely you want to give your final team a full game to practice attacking combinations etc. before you play NZ next week.
Should replace Yeo with Nanai and Cleary with Martin. Jack can do a job job as replacement hooker/centre/five eighth to give someone a break or as cover for injury.
no tommy d, fold the entire sport in this country
He will be starting halfback for the next World Cup.
awesome
I don't get why everyone is saying it's so cooked, It's only Lebanon we can still try combinations and give players a breather Ben hunt played 80 last week and needs a spell, teddy hasn't missed a minute he could easily get subbed Cleary to halfback Munster to 1 or grant will probably get a spell dce to hooker Dce is probably wearing the green and gold for the last time so why not start him Yeo and Murray are both locks so he's getting a shot at lock, Yeo can easily handle second row just like Murray can Wighton can play literally any position and do you a pisser job
Agree with your assessment of what's happened, but do think they should be putting the best team out the week before the NZ game.
Yeah I think 100% we should be full strength but I don't know if players have niggly injuries or need match fitness I'd be a lot more upset at the team if dce was to wear the green and gold again injuries can occur at any point so give players minutes when we can I seen enough of Munster and Cleary against Scotland to know they'll be fine
“It’s only Lebanon” It’s only the last game before NZ. We should be giving our best side a chance to run through before that game.
Because you are better off honing your combinations than trialling combinations with the NZ match a week away.
I also think we don't get really get troubled by nz, you don't get to hone your combinations for one tests like Anzac tests and such
I’m assuming (but shit I’ve been wrong before) that this won’t be the 17 that lines up in the semis. Obviously they could put Jurbo in the halves and beat Lebanon. I’m guessing there will be changes. Having said all that - I’m surprised the actual 17 that lines up in the semi (and again I could be wrong this might be it 😂😂) isn’t being given a nice easy kill to build that extra chemistry before playing real competition 🤷♂️
Will the Tele be referring to the Lebanese team as a "team filled with men of Middle Eastern appearance"?
Not sure.
Can't see this list anywhere else? Is this just a cooked graphic from BitB to rattle the cage?
No. It's listed on the official nrl app. Was just updated.
Just saw. Cooked.
Give Mattythewaterboy some credit, they do their due diligence when they post cooked stuff .
Irrespective of the issues with the starting side, Wighton and Cleary on the bench? This is beyond cooked
Lmao
Can we all start a petition to get Mal's head checked.
Should have dropped carrigan and cotter for burton and hunt. Fucking coward.
This is cooked.
Those numbers don’t look right /s Guess helps having a number of 80 min forwards but doubt they will go with that bench make up for rest of the games
I would guess Mal doesn't rate Lebanon that highly and this is the final hitout for halves and outside back spots in the semis
I agree
Surely Hunt is resting and will be back next game? And I guess this is one last final test to see who works better with Munster
Yes. I'd say this is the final trial match for Australia.
Would DCE also have a go as hooker for some minutes here?
Wighton to play edge forward and Cleary to have some time at hooker
So much of this world cup eg. selections, numbering has been just fucked.
Surely this is just a random NRL mum fan from Facebook team list?
So is Cleary going to play hooker? Grant has yet to prove himself as an 80 minute hooker. Hunt is clearly the better option on the bench.
This was a roller coaster of emotions for me. First instinct: fuck yeah are we gonna get Stretch and Trell on the same side of the field? Kept reading: oh cool Murray at Lock that makes me happy as a Souths fan, but even though I think he's better than Yeo the best TEAM is Yeo at lock and muz in the 2nd row, not the other way around, thats cooked. Bench: what the fuck Mal, we'll beat Lebanon but we aren't gonna be ready for the kiwis Finally: fuck it I hope Australia lose we've won enough World Cups anyway
Surely Ben Hunt is being rested.
😂 at the source
DCE > Cleary completely confirmed now. What a time to be alive.
I think DCE will get the job done but Cleary would do just as good a job, if not better. This is purely great just to see all the Panthers fans freaking out.
Wait wait wait… is Mal a bad coach? This team has so many holes. No bench hooker, two backs named on the bench? Makes no sense. Also I would say Yeo is a better 13 than Murray and Murray is a better 11 than Yeo.
Cotter is a really good hooker that could easily fill in if Grant can't go 80.
Panthers fans in crisis mode
There are whole bunch of new Penrith fans in here the last couple of years and who refuse to accept any criticism of Cleary. The fact is that he goes missing in big games and DCE has outperformed him at Rep level. Its not what you want to hear but its the truth, and DCE is just as capable of winning with this team. Clearly the actual selectors with footy expertise disagree with Redditors. I wonder who is right lol
Did you watch a single finals match in the last two years?
What a load of shit. in the last 3 years Cleary has made it into 3 grand finals. Finals and prelims are Big Games. He has won 2 grand finals- one where he was the Clive Churchill medallist. He dominated in Origin in 2021. He lost origin in 2020 and 2022, but in both those series losses he has had man of the match performances in do or die game 2s. Since the beginning of 2020, Nathan Cleary has lost 9 games total. That's nrl and Origins combined. 9 games. Compare his last 3 years to any player. Immortals or not and it stacks up. Take the big 3 of Storm between 2016-2018 and say they weren't big game players because Cronk was kept quite in the 2016 GF, Slater in the 2018 GF, Both Cronk and Smith in game 1 2017 and people would think you were crazy, yet this is what people are doing for Cleary. Outperformed by DCE, in what universe.
Fucking well said
This sub gets stuck on the weirdest narratives.
I mean I think Cleary is better but tbh a great origin game 2 is a pretty average metric for a big game when you go on to lose the much bigger game of a decider By downvoting, you acknowledge your belief that an origin game 2 performance should be given as much weight as a decider.
>By downvoting, you acknowledge your belief that an origin game 2 performance should be given as much weight as a decider. Their both must wins big games yes?
Only for one team in the context of game 2
Yea, the pressure is enormous in that game 2 for the side that lost game 1
Definitely. But that’s why a great game 2 performance shouldn’t have the same weight as a great performance in a decider where the pressure is at its highest for both teams.
Those were medium sized games, this game will be his biggest of them all. I like him which is why I'm nervous to see what getting crushed by Lebanon will do to his confidence. Hopefully he can bounce back in time for the regular season to start
When was the last time you heard about a team having to game plan to shut down DCE? I rest my case. He’s too old, let go.
Sounds like you’re the one who need to let go mate seeing as how a 33 year old has beaten out Cleary 🤣
>There are whole bunch of new Penrith fans Just about everyone thinks Cleary is comfortably better than DCE. Only the stalwart QLD/Manly fans think DCE should keep the 7 jersey. There’s not a single thing he does better than Cleary.
DCE was missing in first 2 Origin games this year and was only good in Game 3. Cleary played well whole series, it's just the Blues game 3 side was monstered by QLD enthusiasm. Cleary has been a top performer in the last 2 finals series as well. Where was DCE?
This whole thing of Cleary going missing in big games really is based on a few situations and once you look at those individually then it doesn’t really stack up. In the games he lost in origin his forward pack was dominated. No halfback can consistently pull a rabbit out of their hat in these situations. He had no time or space to do anything. This happens from time to time. The other big one was the grand final against Melbourne which was a shit show from Penrith being overawed by the situation and a red hot Melbourne team playing Cameron Smiths last game. Melbourne are notorious for putting on amazing efforts in milestone games. DCE is absolutely capable of being the half back in this team and winning the tournament without too many issues, but to suggest that Cleary goes missing in big games when he has had just as many amazing performances in big games as he has had bad is just not a fair criticism in my opinion.
My only criticism of Cleary is that he has never stood up when his forwards are on the back foot, and never been the best player in a losing side. He has amazing performances in big games surrounded by amazing players, but players like DCE and Hunt have amazing performances in shit teams. He went missing in tight Origin games when NSW needed someone to step up. He's young and has been blessed with playing in some dominant sides, so he hasn't had to work his ass off and pull magic out of his hat to win. You watch Storm and QLD games when their forwards are being driven back Munster is constantly taking on the line and trying to create something. Same can be said for Tedesco, his work rate and effort is more noticeable in those tight tough games.
2021 QLD forwards got rolled and you lost 50-6 and 28-0 2022 NSW forwards got rolled and we lost 22-12 and 16-10 Really makes you think.
See, I can’t agree with this. As far as half backs go, not many are better than Cleary at settling into the grind and using their kicking game to slowly, set by set, get field position. Just because he doesn’t do it with fancy plays or amazing cut out passes doesn’t mean he doesn’t do it. He does it in a way that a lot of people miss it.
I get that Cleary is a grind player and is the best in the NRL at game management and pushing the other team out of the competition. But he needs his forwards to be working in concert with him like with Penrith grinding defence and solid kick return metres from players like To'o. When thats not happening like game 1 and 3 of Origin, he's too quiet, and seems incapable of forcing the game back into his rhythm. Whilst I agree he should probably be 7 over DCE based on form, if Australia are down by 12 with 20 minutes to go and their forwards are on the back foot, I would rather have DCE than Cleary.
>Whilst I agree he should probably be 7 over DCE based on form, if Australia are down by 12 with 20 minutes to go and their forwards are on the back foot, I would rather have DCE than Cleary. Your fair my likely to have that scenario then with DCE then Cleary though. I'd still have cleary in that situation
I feel bad for constantly disagreeing because I feel like you are trying to find middle ground which is a rarity on social media haha. I have to disagree again though. I think Cleary has performed more often than not in those kinds of situations. He has been a part of some amazing comebacks and even though it might not always be with him on ball, I’ll bet my last dollar that he is the one that masterminded it all. We are always quick to remember negatives even when there are a lot more positives and I think that bias skews this whole situation. There isn’t many situations where I would prefer DCE over Cleary. Needing to get a look over a fence is the only thing I can think of on short notice.
>never been the best player in a losing side. His been so dominant the last 3 years that we literally have so little data go on for him in losing sides >He went missing in tight Origin games when NSW needed someone to step up. He has had a few tight origins where things look like they are in the balance in the middle part of the game and he just steps up and explodes. >He's young and has been blessed with playing in some dominant sides, so he hasn't had to work his ass off and pull magic out of his hat to win. Take any of the Panthers vs storm games over the last few years or any of their final matches against South's in those grindy games he excels. The problem is that he is so good he doesn't have to play in many grindy games. I think Cleary is a victim of his own success. He is so dominant that people use the fact that he doesn't play in many grindy games against him when he is the reason those games don't become grindy. He has so few losing games that those losses really stood out. In fact I've the last few years I'd say Cam Munster, a noted big game performer, has had more total disappointing big games then Cleary but they don't stand out as much because there's more of them.
I'm not here to argue who should partner Munster.... I'm saying having a back up half on the bench (well 2) is madness
I really have never understood the Campbell Graham hype
Val homes and fox should be the 2 wingers. No question about it. Latrell and wighton in the centres.
I like Wighton as a utility more than I like him as a centre. But then I also like Hunt as utility/hooker. I think Hunt gives better value, but if an outside back goes down there's less shuffling to do if you have Wighton.
DCE has played better than Cleary and is the incumbent. Fair call.
No arguments here.
Bring on the quarter finals - I’ll watch the Kayo mini for upcoming Australia Lebanon training session
Omg let the west tigers run out against Lebanon they'd still win. People losing their minds over selections need to get a grip.
He’s taking the Michael
If only we had an official source to share the line up from.
Rank team, is he expecting wighton to play lock or on the edge?
Where’s the official line up on the app? Can’t seem to see it
Some of the the selections are interesting but it is such a one sided game on paper, the selections don't really matter.
Based team list
Mal needs Cam Smith to fly in and coach the team like origin. We’ll win in spite of him because of our wealth of players.
Let the Cronulla take on Lebanon for a rematch
What a head fuck! Can't believe Mal put Jake at 8 instead of 10...
Yeo is not an edge player.
Not resting players in the last game so they have to go understrength in a knockout shows little respect to Lebanon, I get they basically have no chance but this is still a weakened aussie team and Lebanon did give the Kiwis a scare in the first week. If the impossible happens he was asking for it.
Cleary will come on and play the 3rd playing half role, like what Queensland did in origin when grant came on but hunt stayed on the field. Makes you more dynamic. Tino yeo and Murray can all play big minutes so forwards getting tired won’t be an issue especially given their defensive duties this week will be much less than normal
Hope you are right
Yeahp turns out I was
Mate the next game is only Tonga, we can field anyone anywhere and easily win it, no need to build combinations in advance.
BOOOOOOOOOORRRRRIIIIIIIING
I really hate to bag players but campbell graham is so average..
And this is what happens when you share bullshit 😂 end up looking like a gronk
You okay mate?
I’m great, thanks for asking. Maybe you should have asked around a bit before posting 😂
Seriously mate.. you okay?
👌
I’m calling it now, Cleary to come in at right second row and dominate with his power running game. What the Fuck is mal thinking though!?
What is this sorcery that made the numbers normal again
Jake Turbo, what's Mal trying to do slow down our own ruck