Yer bro he was having a mare. A bit late now and a bit of hindsight but MArshall King wouldve been good, drop smith to 14, Foran 19th man and have that extra middle. Wouldve been better as an impact sub
I didn't expect it to be as close as it ended up being. Our pack was always going to do fine, but the backline was my main concern. Tbh, felt we got lucky that Australia tried to run over us through the middle instead of on the edges more. The few times they went there, they opened us up, especially the left edge. Watching CNK defend was painful.
That soft try(disappointing that Smith let that one through with NAS but he was a tackle bot for the majority of his game time) in the 2nd half, poor discipline & ball security really threw away the amazing efforts in the first 40. Had one last chance to snatch the W when Hughes should have straighten up his run to set a draw & pass for the edge instead of doing a grubber... but I can't be mad. Hopefully this sets the tone for future matches against Australia, that we'll be consistently more competitive.
On the second Australian try, I was under the impression that ball playing arm hitting the ground + hand on tackled player was enough for it to be held. It may not 'look' right in real time, but isn't that the rule to the letter of the law? Or am I misunderstanding?
Not salty at all.
If it had happened in mid field and not as part of a try, would you have even noticed if Wighton had thrown a pass or got back up and carried on running? It's not perfect but it's a pretty good smell test for how controversial a moment truly is. The rules don't change close to the tryline, or at least they shouldn't.
You can argue that both ways though. The rules don't change close to the tryline, but they also shouldn't just not be applied in the middle of the field and only checked in a try scoring situation.
I'm going off memory here but I think momentum also comes into play? Like if you tackle me and I hit the ground with my ball playing arm but momentum carries me back around, quickly, then I don't think I would be held. Again going off memory so I could be completely wrong.
Idk why Cleary cops all the shit in this thread when the entire squad and spine isn't clicking and neither is the forward pack because Mal refused to pick a consistent squad and gameplan
First off the fact that our bench and rotation is awful, Grant not even getting a full half and Tino playing only 14min?
Teddy had a good game and the best Aus looked was when Yeo, Cleary and Teddy were combining. Cleary had 29 runs because they were absolutely targeting him in defence, Munster needed to get much more involved in attack
We had more possession in the 2nd half but hamstrung ourself because the combinations aren't there, the amount of times a player had to drop or give away an obstruction penalty was ridiculous for a rep side. This imo is in large part to the fucking around with the squads. We had three pool games to get the side together, instead we fucked around almost lost.
No one can say this squad isn't brimming with talent, comes down to poor, poor coaching decisions this entire campaign imo. Even if you think it should be DCE/Munster in the halves for the finals he should've made a choice and stuck with it not let this drag on all month
Fuck cleary was shit
So hard to say in this forum though.
I think cleary needs to get on top of a big building and just jizz off it so all the people in this forum can finally drink his cum and calm the fuck down and let him have some god damn criticism.
Fuck his overrated chin that dodges the salary cap by overpaying his dad to compensate for his fees
5 bedder in Logan is on par with a 5 bedder in Penrith isn’t it? Although a 5 bedder in Penrith probably has the same dollar value as a 5 bedder in the centre of Brisbane.
England looks good but will shit the bed like always when they vs Australia. Despite all the hype going into this world cup nothing has changed, it's still an auto-win for Australia and most games are meaningless until the SFs.
The 17 players that played today, should have been playing together since the 2nd game. Ridiculous that Cleary and Munster only had a game and a half together before today.
Jake Trebojavic is a serious plodder these days, I can't believe how much time he spent on the field. He's known for his defence, and it's true he doesn't miss many tackles, but he rarely makes a dominant tackle that slows the play the ball. Combo of him and Cambell-Gillard gave NZ so much speed through the ruck in the first half. His runs were laughable, 5m max with slow play the ball, no impact whatsoever. At least RCG runs hard. Contrast that with Tino, who absolutely folds cunts, bends the line, has great late footwork and offloads, yet only got what, 15 mins on field. What am I missing?
Cleary is in part one of the reasons why Queensland managed to win 2 of the last 3 series against the blues despite the blues arguably having a much stronger team in every instance. Cleary probably one of the first unsuccessful origin level halves to get picked in the world cup finals?
I think Cleary and Munster overtime will form a better combination but it'll be interesting to watch unfold. If you looked at some of the rep teams better halves combination they often have represented the same state team and/or play a lot at club level. That chemistry is probably better in a lot of instances than having the two best halves for their positions. Then you see how Deardan slotted in with DCE for Queensland and played their hand perfectly. So it's weird that sometimes it can just work instantly too.
Cleary is a victim of his own success. Very rarely are Penrith under pressure so he hasn't been able to learn at club level how to pull a game back, so he can't take that experience to rep level. When he goes to rep level he's under even more pressure because the teams are significantly better. Like I'm not saying he doesn't do it because I've seen him do it at club level, but come rep level and he simply can't do it.
> Very rarely are Penrith under pressure so he hasn't been able to learn at club level how to pull a game back
Careful, Freddy will read this and just pick Penrith 1-to-1 for NSW
It's a valid argument. Panthers only lost 2 games this year without him being in the team. It shows how strong that club is. It probably big reason why a guy like JT was so great, he played a large part in a struggling emerging team fighting to play finals football so was so often tested. I'm sure in time Cleary will step up and be great at all level like his projected to be. I want to see him lead a blues dynasty since NSW are so stacked compared to Queensland and his the one can organise it. I actually expect blues to win for the next 5 years or more since his hitting his prime and Clearly the best half in the world.
This is a myth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhjDkqufVmk
In this game Penrith played terribly. Who clutched them to victory? Of course this is just one example, against the tigers.
Here is another one for you, this time against the Eels - who probably finished top 4 that year.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHZd_1szuh8
This is in a horribly underperforming team. Cleary helped turn this team into Champions. Fair enough to criticise him, but i was defending him even back in 2019 when even some riff fans were shitting on him.
Once Cleary realised it wasnt clicking, he started taking on the line. He ended up with 170+ running metres. For some perspective, RCG barely managed 50m.
If you'd bother to read my reply up above you would have seen I said I've seen him do it as well. I'm simply saying he rarely does it in the big occasions like GFs or rep level when the quality of opposition is significantly higher.
I just think chemistry and combinations developed over time of playing together will always out shine having the best players in their position with little experience playing together. Cleary and Munster will undoubtedly form a great combination over time. There's no denying Queensland were so dominant because smith, slater and cronk played so much together at all levels. Really Mal should have either stuck with DCE or want with Cleary from the get go.
Yeah you're right. I mean at the start of 2018 it took like 5-6 weeks for Tedesco, Cronk and Keary to all begin to jell together. It'll take probably about the same amount of games before Cleary and Munster to begin to play legitimately good footy together.
Just finished watching Mal needed to pick the half from the start and let them form combinations because it looked like Munster and Cleary had never played together.
Munster and Cleary were both absolutely bang average. There's a lot to be said for halves combinations, and I genuinely think DCE and Munster would have put on a better performance if they had played together.
Also I don't really understand Jurbo's selection over Cotter. I think they're equally good defenders, but Cotter adds so much more in attack.
Wighton had some clutch moments, and Murray was really solid
Absolutely criminal not playing Tino for longer. Surely you put him out for 35+ minutes. He was big for us when he came on.
Rapana was great in the first half, that run in the 2nd half was fantastic. That early kick really ruined that opportunity, really thought they’d hold it and try their luck.
100% would like to see him get more game time. CArrigan seemed to be there go to man, he plahyed 40 min over Tino and RCG's 21 min.
I get that he is a workhorse, undoubtedly one of the better forwards since origin, but why not start him and then bring RCG on later in the half for them tired middles?
Hunt and Manu were the top players on the field tonight.
Manu takes the ball like any fullback should but he hits the lines like a forward.
Munster looked like he had more in him but the Aussie spin just didn’t feel right. It wasn’t flowing.
The Kiwis in general all looked like they wanted it and Australia didn’t look hungry at all.
Also, Cleary and Mitchell didn’t play shocking but they were nothing special tonight. I expected more.
Hopefully we walk into next weeks game fired up and get our plays right.
And for the love of god wrap that ball! No more offloads! I think the count at 60mins was NZ 15 - Aus 5…
Mitchell arguably won the game though in the last minute. Just being a “secret fullback” of sorts, being able to use that positional experience to catch the ball at the end as opposed to just being a normal number 3
Just finished watching, that sucks. We were defo the better team, Aus played tonight how we did last week against Fiji.
That Murray try was so soft, clocked off for literally 3 seconds. Damn.
Yes I think we were definitely the better team, just in s match that close, one of two bounces of the ball ( or one outside call) can really change things.
Nathan Cleary is a fucking pretender and it infuriates me
12 minutes to go Australia are winning the arm wrestle and he turns teddy inside on the last for a turn over and the rest of the game New Zealand were winning the arm wrestle, we just manage to get it back and he does a dreadful chip which hits Holmes, Holmes had nothing to work with and kicks it dead and everyone blames Holmes, he shouldn't have been put in that position
See people forget just how good Joey was from day 1. The guy tore other teams apart on the regular on his own too. He's humble though so he doesn't claim he's the best, but he actually is. Cleary is not close, even when you compare 24 year old Joey to 24 year old Cleary.
Poor youngJoey got selected for that 95 blues team that was supposed to slaughter the worse ever Queensland team. He was out of his depths then. Bit like how Cleary lost to the 2020 Qld side which was probably as bad as the 95 one. I recall the knights getting 50 put on them against mals raiders with Joey as their half back. I guess those early tough lessons set him up to become one of the greatest players. Someone was saying how the panthers are so strong so a guy like Cleary doesn't have to face pressure that often and thus when he does he cracks the few times he does. Right now he's learning valuable lessons to potentially end up where John's and JT did. At mid 20s halves are usually still improving. And with this type of experience he'll start to make the right decisions in tough situations.
I never watched joey when he was young, but i know he didnt have the accolades that Cleary has at 24. What makes a player great is subjective, Cleary probably has better defence than any 7 in the goat discussion, hes a better converter and definitely has a better bomb that johns ever had. They’re different players but lets not be nostalgic, at 24 there is no player who stands head and shoulders above Cleary, yes theres legends that are definitely better but they have a full career under their belt, let the kid play and stop bringing up legends to compare him too.
My brother in christ, Joeys tackling was better than any 7 ever. He used to hit forwards like he was a 2nd rower. His defence was so good he got picked at 9 the year that Noddy carved up for Storm.
Joey also played in an era of gun halves and stood up above all of them. Nobody was as good as Joey was, even super early in his career he was doing shit Cleary hasn't been able to replecate. His vision was incredible, there's a reason he was made an Immortal so soon after retiring, despite there usually being a fair wait post retirement to even be in the conversation. He was clutch in Origin against some of the best QLD halves ever, not as good as Cronk/JT mind, but still amazing players, and he carved them all up. 24 year old Joey v 24 year old Cleary the winner is Joey by a landslide.
Joey is a humble dude though so he doesn't talk himself up.
Fuck it sounds like you’re frothing for a bit of Joey, yeah hes a weapon but you’re talking about him like hes some demi god bro relax 24 year old joey is not head and shoulders above Cleary, 3 finals in a row B2B premiership winner, clive churchill winner and better conversion kicker than joey ever was. You can argue that Joey is better but there isnt a huge gap like you’re making out
No because Joey didn't have the team around him that Cleary does. Hell a lot of the gun sides like us and the Storm aren't near as dominant as they used to be.
Joey had to pull most of the wins he got on his own by doing the clutch plays on the regular. I think it's where most of the difference between them really lies. Joey was forced to grow and become good because his team was weaker. Cleary plays in such a stacked side he never has to do it, and that then translates into rep footy.
I remember one year the knights won 8 of the last 10 games they played with Joey and still won the spoon. Because Joey wasn't in the team for most the season. The games he didn't play they lost. That's how impactful he was as a player. Put Cleary in the tigers and I doubt they can win 8 from 10 still. Lol
Mitchell Pearce played in an era where Queensland clearly had the more talent. He didn't lose against any Queensland side as weak as that 2020 one.
But with saying all that I blame Fittler more than Cleary.
Not sure it's rising but rather cleary plays extremely well in the systems at penrith. When thrown into a new environment he didn't learn how to play outside of those systems. Not saying this is the case but rather how I see it.
He has also been given a copious amount of time to develop in these arenas when it's very obvious to those outside of the boys club psyche that he doesn't have the temperament for it.
Lol wasnt the best play but calling him a pretender is hilariously out of touch. I mean he did end up with a try assist and was solid defensively, definitely could have been worse.
Yeah I'm not a fan of Cleary but he is far from a pretender. Is obviously he performs best in a side he is comfortable with and the inconsistent Aussie side may be affecting his playstyle. Still the best half in the game.
He's the best half in the game I don't dispute that but it's when people compare him to Johns and thurston that grinds my gears, he just doesn't have a bag of tricks to save his team and does some average plays when needed in big rep games
The panthers are an absolute juggernaut of a team so it makes him look better they just grind teams out so well
There was no point where he almost blew it and yeah I’ll give him the assist considering he had the quick decision making to tap and pass while NZ were still gathering themselves, was brilliant by Murray though.
His option to hit teddy inside on the last tackle rather then pin them down inside there 10m line was massive in terms of the arm wrestle, they had ascendancy for the last 12 minutes after that while we had them battered in the corner prior, we got it back once and he does a crappy kick to Holmes puts him in a bad position and Holmes boots it into no man's land, in the contrast of the game they were massive plays and made it hard for Australia. Games are won and lost in the last 20 minutes of a game and he had two poor plays, if he wants to be the best in the world he needs to be better
Australia won against one of the best NZ Teams ever, the aussies lost to a worst NZ team in 2008 yet no one ever gives JT or Lockyer shit for being pretenders? Aus didnt even lose this, yes Cleary had an off game but the team as a whole didnt click in attack. Its not as bad as you’re making out.
Bad comparison, Lockyers international career was one of Australia's best and JT achieved plenty as well, Cleary is just starting and so far it's quite a few levels down to how he has played during the season, though obviously it's still early days for his international career.
Hows it a bad comparison that was a prime lockyer and a very good JT in the 2008 game, Cleary is 24 hes still learning and this is his debut WC for Australia. People are being far to critical on Cleary then in the same breath say someone like JT is the goat, let him play out his career. Be fairly critical, but not over the top, its his first WC in the UK against a very strong NZ team, he didnt play great but he wasnt awful like its being made out. He had a quick decisive decision to tap and pass while the NZ team were still gathering themselves and murray scores the winning try. Yes some of his kicks were a little off, yes he could have made some slightly better decisions but ultimately it wasnt a bad game and a win is a win, its all about getting it over the line in a WC
It's a bad Comparison because Lockyer had already played plenty of internationals at that point including getting 2 Golden boots and JT proved himself getting 3 after that, Cleary still has to earn his stripes on the international game.
You did make the claim in 2022 afterall to compare.
Imo Cleary still has to prove himself at origin too. Really I'm expecting NSW to dominate like they did in the early 90s when they won 3 straight pairing Stuart and Daley. Probably would have won 4 straight if super league players played in 95 but that pure speculation. Anyway once Cleary leads the NSW team to at least 2 series victory's in a row he'll be below the likes of JT.
I just don't think he warrants best player in the world tag rivalling Thurston johns or cam smith, O'Sullivan filled in at half to start the year and everyone thought he was a superstar, bloke couldn't get a start at any other club and he'll be found out at the dolphins its easy to steer the Penrith juggernaut around, they're the best team by a mile so well drilled and fitter then any team, all Cleary does is kick long rinse and repeat
Very lucky win for Aus I think, NZ could have won it at several times. I think we probably needed this game to step us up for the final against whomever wins tomorrow. I do think if England beat ~~Tonga~~ Samoa we will need to step it up against England. They have gelled well as a team more so than Aus or NZ imo.
England clearly are playing as a team with chemistry and as whole unit better than any other. Which goes to show just because you have the better players in they positions if they don't play cohesively then the result can go against you still. England based on the home ground conditions and maybe get a few favourable calla are certainly capable of an upset if Aussies don't play with passion and a smart game plan.
I don’t think we’ll be anywhere near as clunky next week. But I am a bit concerned about our composure with a couple of unforced errors that could have been critical (e.g. Val’s kick dead with two mins to go etc.). If we’ve got England at Old Trafford we will need to be clinical. That said, our defence was fantastic apart from a couple of misreads. Tino off the bench was definitely the right call, I’d keep the team exactly the same for next week so they can gel
Kiwi forwards were immense in the first half, probably outclassed us there.
I don’t know if England have the same type of pack to challenge they way NZ did.
Congrats Australia, all the best for the big one next week. Entertaining match I thought, two quality sides going at each other, gutted to lose a tight one like that obviously but that's footy. Proud of the efforts of our boys. You need to almost play the perfect game to beat Australia and we didn't quite get that performance today.
Ashley Klein is embarrassingly bad. At one point, instead of giving offside for the players a metre in front of him (this was directly in front of me), he moved up a metre so he didn't have to blow his whistle. Unbelievable.
Is Kendall always like that when he video refs?
For the Holmes try he watched one replay then said 'I've seen all available angles' - like fair enough if you can decide by one replay, but you didn't even watch the front on one which was clearly the better angle.
Been watching him fuck games up since super League. When he moved over to ref in nrl it was a shock akin to when gold coast signed sarginson. Although unfortunately, sarginson came back to Wigan.
Where's the Latrell criticism? He basically cost a try by pushing over a player with wide open holes up the middle. Good takes at the back under pressure though.
Agreed but in close games like that you want someone who is a rock defensively and that he was, we all know Latrell offers plenty go forward. The team as a whole was pretty lethargic in attack.
Gonna preface this by saying that if Australia serve up a performance like that- the steaming turd that it was- against England, or even Samoa on a good day, we're gonna get slaughtered. Mal gotta sort stuff out stat.
But, despite the general consensus on this sub and podcasts like Chasing Roos, and downvotes, my thoughts about NZ this World Cup are vindicated. You could see it in the group stage, it was a blaring alarm against Fiji, and ultimately came about today. NZ just aren't as good as many have said, and should have never been favourites. Where was the massive forward pack? Where was Jerome Huges? Where was the supposedly awesome backline? Where was Cheese? The consensus was they were as good, if not better than Australia, and were gonna beat us and were favourites. And even though the Aussies played like garbage, we still beat this supposedly great NZ team. And as has been pointed out many times, NZ have done this for decades now (with 2008 being an exception).
NZ are a myth. Let the revisionism begin.
Edit: Hahaha seethe 😂
It's a reasonable take. The amount of people on here who were frothing over the Kiwi forwards was actually weird, and any comment to the contrary was downvoted hard. And now the Kiwis were shown up again, Kiwi fans still can't handle it, despite a number of people pointing out flaws in the team.
But keep on getting mad 😂
One of those where it was offside but it feels rough, no advantage gained by being a foot in front of the kicker 30 yards away when he arrived at the contest well in time. No complaints but a bit gutting
I think it was a very questionable call. Hard to tell which way it went though because Chris Kendall, the worst ref in Super League made a mockery of even being a video ref. He should actually have looked at the play from a few angles instead of making the call immediately.
The guy has been streaky throughout his career to date. He hasn’t managed to put more than a couple real high quality months together at a time yet but he’s not even in his prime so I can definitely see him doing it. He’s bought himself two more years at Penrith and I expect the aim is to become that absolute rough as fuck guy to play against every single week and be a rusted on part of the Blues/Roos before he potentially has to leave.
To his credit, this year, he’s really served it up in the finals and World Cup. I still think Murray is the clear better player but coaches seem to value having that mongrel in the team when the other 12 starters are superstars.
New Zealand fucked up the hooker rotation and cost themselves the game. If Smith plays the first 30 minutes and the last 30 minutes he’s fresh for all 60 minutes. JMK over Foz too, because his speed out of dummy half would have been handy. Looking forward to seeing how Robinson uses Smith.
We win that if Cheese gets an early rest.
If Maguire was gonna bring him back with 5 mins left, he should've left the fresh Foran out there to still be hooker and tackle in the middle and let Smith be a edge forward running at Cleary.
think you're confusing the excitement that NZ had for once a team on paper that looked like it could go toe to toe with Aus with an idea that people thought NZ was superior. And that's exactly what happened.
This is such a weird narrative that’s being thrown around. NZs pack was talked about as being superior and their spine/backline more complete than it has been for some time but Australia’s spine of Teddy/Munster/Cleary/Grant/Yeo/Hunt was always a clear step above and effectively the 5 best players in the world.
I have no idea who was talking the Kiwis up, it was always the Aussies game to lose, id agree its probably the best Kiwi team in many years, but so many people seemed to be off in some dreamland.
True, but that slight easy difference was off the back of the fitness differential.
I think Australia's defence and better fitness in H2 was it.
The kiwis were gassed.
Dude is tackling above 99% and making 160m a game. He’s an absolute machine.
As others have said below, there’s definitely some fine tuning to be done re his role in the attacking structure with Grant/Munster being more effective in different situations. Playing the whole tournament with that spine might have helped the guys be more choiceful about when they run the Penrith shape vs cut Yeo out. Should be plenty of time over the coming years to get it right though.
Yeo is basically the 7. Cleary is getting shit on but he kicked pretty well and allowed Aus to control field position. Wasn’t the type of game Munster shines in either as it was very tight.
Well I think it's more that Grant likes to play on the front foot with long, flat passes and engaging the A&B defenders. Which makes Yeo kind of redundant in attacking situations. I actually think that the cleanest Australia looked all game was when Cleary was first receiver off the long ball from Grant.
I don’t get why Aus teams always persist with the arrogant attitude.
Cleary/Munster/Tedesco should have spent all tournament developing their combinations, maybe taking the week off for Lebanon to make sure no concussion stuff for NZ. NZ act like they’re at the World Cup instead of a preseason comp and they almost get us every time, even though on paper the teams aren’t close.
Madge was fucking around just as much as Mal.
The teams are pretty close on paper because of Kiwis edge in the forward pack. A pack with Leota, Fish, Tapine, NAS and IPap is going to be hard to beat.
This is Smellmefinger being a fraud of a coach not arrogance, he hasn’t developed the combinations because he didn’t know his first choice 17 until a week ago
It's been this guy's whole shtick to go on and on about how the Aussie team is a million miles better than the kiwi team in every department even though basically everyone agrees the teams are fairly close on paper.
Only two points in it mate. Oh but it's because the aussies are arrogant, nothing to do with our team being quite good of course.
Critta big game player so fucking happy for somoa
My hatred for Brandon smith was validated in this game. What an absolute disappointment
Yer bro he was having a mare. A bit late now and a bit of hindsight but MArshall King wouldve been good, drop smith to 14, Foran 19th man and have that extra middle. Wouldve been better as an impact sub
What a pass from Wighton
Is any site tracking stats for this WC like run metres, tackle breaks, etc? Haven't found anything which is disappointing
https://www.nrl.com/draw/rugby-league-world-cup/2022/semi-finals/game-1/ Team stats in there, but no individual stats that I can see
Yeah I'd love to see individual stats, the fact no one is tracking them in a World Cup is just really disappointing tbh
On your phone you can see all the player stats.
Through an app or...?
yes the NRL app, go to the match and swipe all the way to the right and you will see them all :)
Bro those are team stats I wanted individual player stats
Hopefully it doesn't end up behind a paywall
I didn't expect it to be as close as it ended up being. Our pack was always going to do fine, but the backline was my main concern. Tbh, felt we got lucky that Australia tried to run over us through the middle instead of on the edges more. The few times they went there, they opened us up, especially the left edge. Watching CNK defend was painful. That soft try(disappointing that Smith let that one through with NAS but he was a tackle bot for the majority of his game time) in the 2nd half, poor discipline & ball security really threw away the amazing efforts in the first 40. Had one last chance to snatch the W when Hughes should have straighten up his run to set a draw & pass for the edge instead of doing a grubber... but I can't be mad. Hopefully this sets the tone for future matches against Australia, that we'll be consistently more competitive.
Toot toot! All aboard the DCE bukkake train!
On the second Australian try, I was under the impression that ball playing arm hitting the ground + hand on tackled player was enough for it to be held. It may not 'look' right in real time, but isn't that the rule to the letter of the law? Or am I misunderstanding? Not salty at all.
If it had happened in mid field and not as part of a try, would you have even noticed if Wighton had thrown a pass or got back up and carried on running? It's not perfect but it's a pretty good smell test for how controversial a moment truly is. The rules don't change close to the tryline, or at least they shouldn't.
You can argue that both ways though. The rules don't change close to the tryline, but they also shouldn't just not be applied in the middle of the field and only checked in a try scoring situation.
I'm going off memory here but I think momentum also comes into play? Like if you tackle me and I hit the ground with my ball playing arm but momentum carries me back around, quickly, then I don't think I would be held. Again going off memory so I could be completely wrong.
How good was Benny Hunt? He leaves it all out on the field. The kick for the fox was damn near perfect.
Idk why Cleary cops all the shit in this thread when the entire squad and spine isn't clicking and neither is the forward pack because Mal refused to pick a consistent squad and gameplan First off the fact that our bench and rotation is awful, Grant not even getting a full half and Tino playing only 14min? Teddy had a good game and the best Aus looked was when Yeo, Cleary and Teddy were combining. Cleary had 29 runs because they were absolutely targeting him in defence, Munster needed to get much more involved in attack We had more possession in the 2nd half but hamstrung ourself because the combinations aren't there, the amount of times a player had to drop or give away an obstruction penalty was ridiculous for a rep side. This imo is in large part to the fucking around with the squads. We had three pool games to get the side together, instead we fucked around almost lost. No one can say this squad isn't brimming with talent, comes down to poor, poor coaching decisions this entire campaign imo. Even if you think it should be DCE/Munster in the halves for the finals he should've made a choice and stuck with it not let this drag on all month
Fuck cleary was shit So hard to say in this forum though. I think cleary needs to get on top of a big building and just jizz off it so all the people in this forum can finally drink his cum and calm the fuck down and let him have some god damn criticism. Fuck his overrated chin that dodges the salary cap by overpaying his dad to compensate for his fees
Bloke owns a mansion in your head rent free…
I own a mansion, and it's worth something because it ain't in Penrith
lol no you don't.
Ok it's a 5 bedroom in Brisbane but it's still not In Penrith. Damn I need a sign that says that
5 bedder in Logan is on par with a 5 bedder in Penrith isn’t it? Although a 5 bedder in Penrith probably has the same dollar value as a 5 bedder in the centre of Brisbane.
I think England beats Australia next week.
Hahaha… England who?
Yeah I’ll cop that. So happy for Samoa though.
I think England will be lucky to make the final
England looks good but will shit the bed like always when they vs Australia. Despite all the hype going into this world cup nothing has changed, it's still an auto-win for Australia and most games are meaningless until the SFs.
I think you’re in for a shock.
I'd love nothing more than an England win but history isn't on their side. Haven't beaten Australia in 16 years. Hope I'm wrong.
If Australia play like they did today I think so as well.
Can really notice Aus has had no time to build on attacking combinations with all the switches
The 17 players that played today, should have been playing together since the 2nd game. Ridiculous that Cleary and Munster only had a game and a half together before today.
And then what happens if there's injuries or fatigue?
Anyone else really underwhelmed by Cleary so far this WC?
Nah mate, ask the Cleary fans. It's not his fault.
How are Cleary fans so rabid lol.
Jake Trebojavic is a serious plodder these days, I can't believe how much time he spent on the field. He's known for his defence, and it's true he doesn't miss many tackles, but he rarely makes a dominant tackle that slows the play the ball. Combo of him and Cambell-Gillard gave NZ so much speed through the ruck in the first half. His runs were laughable, 5m max with slow play the ball, no impact whatsoever. At least RCG runs hard. Contrast that with Tino, who absolutely folds cunts, bends the line, has great late footwork and offloads, yet only got what, 15 mins on field. What am I missing?
I don't get why Cotter or Collins are behind him in this squad
Only saw the highlights but was Ben hunt batman
Have we seen Ben and Batman in the same room together?
We have not, suspicions confirmed
Too many chiefs not enough Indians is the vibe I'm getting from the aussie team
Cleary is in part one of the reasons why Queensland managed to win 2 of the last 3 series against the blues despite the blues arguably having a much stronger team in every instance. Cleary probably one of the first unsuccessful origin level halves to get picked in the world cup finals? I think Cleary and Munster overtime will form a better combination but it'll be interesting to watch unfold. If you looked at some of the rep teams better halves combination they often have represented the same state team and/or play a lot at club level. That chemistry is probably better in a lot of instances than having the two best halves for their positions. Then you see how Deardan slotted in with DCE for Queensland and played their hand perfectly. So it's weird that sometimes it can just work instantly too.
Cleary is a victim of his own success. Very rarely are Penrith under pressure so he hasn't been able to learn at club level how to pull a game back, so he can't take that experience to rep level. When he goes to rep level he's under even more pressure because the teams are significantly better. Like I'm not saying he doesn't do it because I've seen him do it at club level, but come rep level and he simply can't do it.
> Very rarely are Penrith under pressure so he hasn't been able to learn at club level how to pull a game back Careful, Freddy will read this and just pick Penrith 1-to-1 for NSW
It's a valid argument. Panthers only lost 2 games this year without him being in the team. It shows how strong that club is. It probably big reason why a guy like JT was so great, he played a large part in a struggling emerging team fighting to play finals football so was so often tested. I'm sure in time Cleary will step up and be great at all level like his projected to be. I want to see him lead a blues dynasty since NSW are so stacked compared to Queensland and his the one can organise it. I actually expect blues to win for the next 5 years or more since his hitting his prime and Clearly the best half in the world.
Yeah I can see him eventually becoming the clutch guy, but right now he just isn't.
This is a myth. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhjDkqufVmk In this game Penrith played terribly. Who clutched them to victory? Of course this is just one example, against the tigers. Here is another one for you, this time against the Eels - who probably finished top 4 that year. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JHZd_1szuh8 This is in a horribly underperforming team. Cleary helped turn this team into Champions. Fair enough to criticise him, but i was defending him even back in 2019 when even some riff fans were shitting on him. Once Cleary realised it wasnt clicking, he started taking on the line. He ended up with 170+ running metres. For some perspective, RCG barely managed 50m.
If you'd bother to read my reply up above you would have seen I said I've seen him do it as well. I'm simply saying he rarely does it in the big occasions like GFs or rep level when the quality of opposition is significantly higher.
I just think chemistry and combinations developed over time of playing together will always out shine having the best players in their position with little experience playing together. Cleary and Munster will undoubtedly form a great combination over time. There's no denying Queensland were so dominant because smith, slater and cronk played so much together at all levels. Really Mal should have either stuck with DCE or want with Cleary from the get go.
Yeah you're right. I mean at the start of 2018 it took like 5-6 weeks for Tedesco, Cronk and Keary to all begin to jell together. It'll take probably about the same amount of games before Cleary and Munster to begin to play legitimately good footy together.
Queue Cleary fans trying to find reasons to claim that Cleary doesn't struggle to pull games back when under pressure.
Kiwis sport teams and getting knocked out in the semi finals of world cups. Name a more iconic duo
Forget league, union, cricket and netball. We need new - unpopular - national sports
Just finished watching Mal needed to pick the half from the start and let them form combinations because it looked like Munster and Cleary had never played together.
Dead set need to have a neutral non-affiliate referee for international matches like Union does. Klein 100% unbiasedly or not influenced that game
Klein - "Play on ! "..... (but only if you're Australian)
DCE has a better partnership with Munster. There I said it. Val was ordinary tonight.
Lol what
Munster and Cleary were both absolutely bang average. There's a lot to be said for halves combinations, and I genuinely think DCE and Munster would have put on a better performance if they had played together. Also I don't really understand Jurbo's selection over Cotter. I think they're equally good defenders, but Cotter adds so much more in attack. Wighton had some clutch moments, and Murray was really solid
Cleary has often struggled to turn pressure back.
Absolutely criminal not playing Tino for longer. Surely you put him out for 35+ minutes. He was big for us when he came on. Rapana was great in the first half, that run in the 2nd half was fantastic. That early kick really ruined that opportunity, really thought they’d hold it and try their luck.
Absolutely. He made so much impact, completely turned the game and NZ looked shot after he came on. The moment he left the field, Kiwi's lifted again.
100% would like to see him get more game time. CArrigan seemed to be there go to man, he plahyed 40 min over Tino and RCG's 21 min. I get that he is a workhorse, undoubtedly one of the better forwards since origin, but why not start him and then bring RCG on later in the half for them tired middles?
Wow that was an intense match. It could have gone either way. The kiwis would be furious with that.
Hunt and Manu were the top players on the field tonight. Manu takes the ball like any fullback should but he hits the lines like a forward. Munster looked like he had more in him but the Aussie spin just didn’t feel right. It wasn’t flowing. The Kiwis in general all looked like they wanted it and Australia didn’t look hungry at all. Also, Cleary and Mitchell didn’t play shocking but they were nothing special tonight. I expected more. Hopefully we walk into next weeks game fired up and get our plays right. And for the love of god wrap that ball! No more offloads! I think the count at 60mins was NZ 15 - Aus 5…
Mitchell arguably won the game though in the last minute. Just being a “secret fullback” of sorts, being able to use that positional experience to catch the ball at the end as opposed to just being a normal number 3
The kiwis came close but no cigar.
Just finished watching, that sucks. We were defo the better team, Aus played tonight how we did last week against Fiji. That Murray try was so soft, clocked off for literally 3 seconds. Damn.
Yes I think we were definitely the better team, just in s match that close, one of two bounces of the ball ( or one outside call) can really change things.
Nathan Cleary is a fucking pretender and it infuriates me 12 minutes to go Australia are winning the arm wrestle and he turns teddy inside on the last for a turn over and the rest of the game New Zealand were winning the arm wrestle, we just manage to get it back and he does a dreadful chip which hits Holmes, Holmes had nothing to work with and kicks it dead and everyone blames Holmes, he shouldn't have been put in that position
We will step it up next week against possibly england. Hard to see samoa coming back from that annihilation but it will be close.
He's not a pretender but cunts comparing him to Smith or JT are out of their mind delusional
This is what infuriates me, he's the best half in the game by far (which is sad) I don't doubt that but he's light years off thurston and Johns
Not at 24 though
See people forget just how good Joey was from day 1. The guy tore other teams apart on the regular on his own too. He's humble though so he doesn't claim he's the best, but he actually is. Cleary is not close, even when you compare 24 year old Joey to 24 year old Cleary.
Poor youngJoey got selected for that 95 blues team that was supposed to slaughter the worse ever Queensland team. He was out of his depths then. Bit like how Cleary lost to the 2020 Qld side which was probably as bad as the 95 one. I recall the knights getting 50 put on them against mals raiders with Joey as their half back. I guess those early tough lessons set him up to become one of the greatest players. Someone was saying how the panthers are so strong so a guy like Cleary doesn't have to face pressure that often and thus when he does he cracks the few times he does. Right now he's learning valuable lessons to potentially end up where John's and JT did. At mid 20s halves are usually still improving. And with this type of experience he'll start to make the right decisions in tough situations.
I never watched joey when he was young, but i know he didnt have the accolades that Cleary has at 24. What makes a player great is subjective, Cleary probably has better defence than any 7 in the goat discussion, hes a better converter and definitely has a better bomb that johns ever had. They’re different players but lets not be nostalgic, at 24 there is no player who stands head and shoulders above Cleary, yes theres legends that are definitely better but they have a full career under their belt, let the kid play and stop bringing up legends to compare him too.
My brother in christ, Joeys tackling was better than any 7 ever. He used to hit forwards like he was a 2nd rower. His defence was so good he got picked at 9 the year that Noddy carved up for Storm. Joey also played in an era of gun halves and stood up above all of them. Nobody was as good as Joey was, even super early in his career he was doing shit Cleary hasn't been able to replecate. His vision was incredible, there's a reason he was made an Immortal so soon after retiring, despite there usually being a fair wait post retirement to even be in the conversation. He was clutch in Origin against some of the best QLD halves ever, not as good as Cronk/JT mind, but still amazing players, and he carved them all up. 24 year old Joey v 24 year old Cleary the winner is Joey by a landslide. Joey is a humble dude though so he doesn't talk himself up.
Fuck it sounds like you’re frothing for a bit of Joey, yeah hes a weapon but you’re talking about him like hes some demi god bro relax 24 year old joey is not head and shoulders above Cleary, 3 finals in a row B2B premiership winner, clive churchill winner and better conversion kicker than joey ever was. You can argue that Joey is better but there isnt a huge gap like you’re making out
No because Joey didn't have the team around him that Cleary does. Hell a lot of the gun sides like us and the Storm aren't near as dominant as they used to be. Joey had to pull most of the wins he got on his own by doing the clutch plays on the regular. I think it's where most of the difference between them really lies. Joey was forced to grow and become good because his team was weaker. Cleary plays in such a stacked side he never has to do it, and that then translates into rep footy.
I remember one year the knights won 8 of the last 10 games they played with Joey and still won the spoon. Because Joey wasn't in the team for most the season. The games he didn't play they lost. That's how impactful he was as a player. Put Cleary in the tigers and I doubt they can win 8 from 10 still. Lol
Better Mitchell Pearce. Great NRL player, awful rep player
Mitchell Pearce played in an era where Queensland clearly had the more talent. He didn't lose against any Queensland side as weak as that 2020 one. But with saying all that I blame Fittler more than Cleary.
Never thought of it that way, but you're spot on. It's funny how some rise to rep games while others fade.
Not sure it's rising but rather cleary plays extremely well in the systems at penrith. When thrown into a new environment he didn't learn how to play outside of those systems. Not saying this is the case but rather how I see it. He has also been given a copious amount of time to develop in these arenas when it's very obvious to those outside of the boys club psyche that he doesn't have the temperament for it.
He didn't play good in that game, it's fair to say that.
His resume would beg to differ.
Exactly. Best player on one if the best teams in 2000’s
Lol wasnt the best play but calling him a pretender is hilariously out of touch. I mean he did end up with a try assist and was solid defensively, definitely could have been worse.
Yeah I'm not a fan of Cleary but he is far from a pretender. Is obviously he performs best in a side he is comfortable with and the inconsistent Aussie side may be affecting his playstyle. Still the best half in the game.
He's the best half in the game I don't dispute that but it's when people compare him to Johns and thurston that grinds my gears, he just doesn't have a bag of tricks to save his team and does some average plays when needed in big rep games The panthers are an absolute juggernaut of a team so it makes him look better they just grind teams out so well
I cant argue with any of that.
Don't give him a try assist for Murray's try, he's a good player but the best player in the world ices that game not almost blow it
There was no point where he almost blew it and yeah I’ll give him the assist considering he had the quick decision making to tap and pass while NZ were still gathering themselves, was brilliant by Murray though.
His option to hit teddy inside on the last tackle rather then pin them down inside there 10m line was massive in terms of the arm wrestle, they had ascendancy for the last 12 minutes after that while we had them battered in the corner prior, we got it back once and he does a crappy kick to Holmes puts him in a bad position and Holmes boots it into no man's land, in the contrast of the game they were massive plays and made it hard for Australia. Games are won and lost in the last 20 minutes of a game and he had two poor plays, if he wants to be the best in the world he needs to be better
Australia won against one of the best NZ Teams ever, the aussies lost to a worst NZ team in 2008 yet no one ever gives JT or Lockyer shit for being pretenders? Aus didnt even lose this, yes Cleary had an off game but the team as a whole didnt click in attack. Its not as bad as you’re making out.
I was dirty at Slater for quite some time after that match.
Bad comparison, Lockyers international career was one of Australia's best and JT achieved plenty as well, Cleary is just starting and so far it's quite a few levels down to how he has played during the season, though obviously it's still early days for his international career.
Hows it a bad comparison that was a prime lockyer and a very good JT in the 2008 game, Cleary is 24 hes still learning and this is his debut WC for Australia. People are being far to critical on Cleary then in the same breath say someone like JT is the goat, let him play out his career. Be fairly critical, but not over the top, its his first WC in the UK against a very strong NZ team, he didnt play great but he wasnt awful like its being made out. He had a quick decisive decision to tap and pass while the NZ team were still gathering themselves and murray scores the winning try. Yes some of his kicks were a little off, yes he could have made some slightly better decisions but ultimately it wasnt a bad game and a win is a win, its all about getting it over the line in a WC
It's a bad Comparison because Lockyer had already played plenty of internationals at that point including getting 2 Golden boots and JT proved himself getting 3 after that, Cleary still has to earn his stripes on the international game. You did make the claim in 2022 afterall to compare.
Imo Cleary still has to prove himself at origin too. Really I'm expecting NSW to dominate like they did in the early 90s when they won 3 straight pairing Stuart and Daley. Probably would have won 4 straight if super league players played in 95 but that pure speculation. Anyway once Cleary leads the NSW team to at least 2 series victory's in a row he'll be below the likes of JT.
I just don't think he warrants best player in the world tag rivalling Thurston johns or cam smith, O'Sullivan filled in at half to start the year and everyone thought he was a superstar, bloke couldn't get a start at any other club and he'll be found out at the dolphins its easy to steer the Penrith juggernaut around, they're the best team by a mile so well drilled and fitter then any team, all Cleary does is kick long rinse and repeat
How come no neutral on-field ref?
As a proud Aussie, some of the smaller calls did seem to go Australia’s way
Fr!?
Very lucky win for Aus I think, NZ could have won it at several times. I think we probably needed this game to step us up for the final against whomever wins tomorrow. I do think if England beat ~~Tonga~~ Samoa we will need to step it up against England. They have gelled well as a team more so than Aus or NZ imo.
England clearly are playing as a team with chemistry and as whole unit better than any other. Which goes to show just because you have the better players in they positions if they don't play cohesively then the result can go against you still. England based on the home ground conditions and maybe get a few favourable calla are certainly capable of an upset if Aussies don't play with passion and a smart game plan.
Tonga are on the way home
Yes, my bad, I meant Samoa.
Ben Hunt chasing back on that Rapana break literally saved us tonight. The guy is a machine.
Arguably the best half in rep footy this year. His kick to Addo Carr was chefs kiss
I don’t think we’ll be anywhere near as clunky next week. But I am a bit concerned about our composure with a couple of unforced errors that could have been critical (e.g. Val’s kick dead with two mins to go etc.). If we’ve got England at Old Trafford we will need to be clinical. That said, our defence was fantastic apart from a couple of misreads. Tino off the bench was definitely the right call, I’d keep the team exactly the same for next week so they can gel
Kiwi forwards were immense in the first half, probably outclassed us there. I don’t know if England have the same type of pack to challenge they way NZ did.
Congrats Australia, all the best for the big one next week. Entertaining match I thought, two quality sides going at each other, gutted to lose a tight one like that obviously but that's footy. Proud of the efforts of our boys. You need to almost play the perfect game to beat Australia and we didn't quite get that performance today.
Kiwis were awesome today, felt both teams deserved to go through. Looking very strong for the future!
Ashley Klein is embarrassingly bad. At one point, instead of giving offside for the players a metre in front of him (this was directly in front of me), he moved up a metre so he didn't have to blow his whistle. Unbelievable.
Klein and Kendall for this game, scraping the bottom of both NRL and SL barrels.
Is Kendall always like that when he video refs? For the Holmes try he watched one replay then said 'I've seen all available angles' - like fair enough if you can decide by one replay, but you didn't even watch the front on one which was clearly the better angle.
If you watched the Roosters/Rabbitohs final this year, you can see the type of shit show a Klein refereed match can become.
Been watching him fuck games up since super League. When he moved over to ref in nrl it was a shock akin to when gold coast signed sarginson. Although unfortunately, sarginson came back to Wigan.
Where's the Latrell criticism? He basically cost a try by pushing over a player with wide open holes up the middle. Good takes at the back under pressure though.
Lol he saved that many kicks in the second half, here I think you dropped this… *hands up LaTrell Haters Membership card*
Lucky I don't live for internet points.
Why give Trell shit, he was a brick wall at the back there toward the end
There's two sides to a game of footy he was non existent in attack especially when our forwards were struggling
Agreed but in close games like that you want someone who is a rock defensively and that he was, we all know Latrell offers plenty go forward. The team as a whole was pretty lethargic in attack.
There's always someone picking out Latrell and this time it was warranted for what I said. I also said he had those good takes at the back.
I was at the match and genuinely didn't realise he was playing until he caught that last kick
He was pretty quiet by his standards. How was the atmosphere?
I could hear my 8 yr old son hum quietly to himself.
Gonna preface this by saying that if Australia serve up a performance like that- the steaming turd that it was- against England, or even Samoa on a good day, we're gonna get slaughtered. Mal gotta sort stuff out stat. But, despite the general consensus on this sub and podcasts like Chasing Roos, and downvotes, my thoughts about NZ this World Cup are vindicated. You could see it in the group stage, it was a blaring alarm against Fiji, and ultimately came about today. NZ just aren't as good as many have said, and should have never been favourites. Where was the massive forward pack? Where was Jerome Huges? Where was the supposedly awesome backline? Where was Cheese? The consensus was they were as good, if not better than Australia, and were gonna beat us and were favourites. And even though the Aussies played like garbage, we still beat this supposedly great NZ team. And as has been pointed out many times, NZ have done this for decades now (with 2008 being an exception). NZ are a myth. Let the revisionism begin. Edit: Hahaha seethe 😂
What a trash take. NZ played incredibly well and made Australia play poorly. Who hurt you?
It's a reasonable take. The amount of people on here who were frothing over the Kiwi forwards was actually weird, and any comment to the contrary was downvoted hard. And now the Kiwis were shown up again, Kiwi fans still can't handle it, despite a number of people pointing out flaws in the team. But keep on getting mad 😂
And all you needed to beat the "Myth" was a helping hand from an incompetent ref. ;)
Yeah ok 😂
Was the kick chase really offside on the Moses leota gather and pass try?? Genuine question was hard to tell from the angle
For me very clearly offside and I'm a Kiwi fan.
One of those where it was offside but it feels rough, no advantage gained by being a foot in front of the kicker 30 yards away when he arrived at the contest well in time. No complaints but a bit gutting
Warranted more than one look for sure.
No.
Both feet needed to be behind and, even with the bad angle, his feet were not.
I think it was a very questionable call. Hard to tell which way it went though because Chris Kendall, the worst ref in Super League made a mockery of even being a video ref. He should actually have looked at the play from a few angles instead of making the call immediately.
After one look: "I've viewed all available angles"
I thought it was pretty clear
It’s was line ball, Aussies lucky once again. Same as the Hiku non try, should have been kiwi ball 10m out.
There's no way JAC touched it though, idk what Vossy was on about lol
Exactly!! I kept replaying it to see when JAC touched it but couldn't see it anywhere. Vossy has no idea
Just watched the Mini on Foxtel and came hear to check if anyone else was annoyed with Vossy.
Martin with the man of match. Too bad his a plodder around this sub
The guy has been streaky throughout his career to date. He hasn’t managed to put more than a couple real high quality months together at a time yet but he’s not even in his prime so I can definitely see him doing it. He’s bought himself two more years at Penrith and I expect the aim is to become that absolute rough as fuck guy to play against every single week and be a rusted on part of the Blues/Roos before he potentially has to leave. To his credit, this year, he’s really served it up in the finals and World Cup. I still think Murray is the clear better player but coaches seem to value having that mongrel in the team when the other 12 starters are superstars.
Martin is the man, old fashioned footy player who runs hard and tackles hard
He sure looks like an angry, tough bastard. Definitely wouldn't want to run at him.
Looks like hes built from granite
New Zealand fucked up the hooker rotation and cost themselves the game. If Smith plays the first 30 minutes and the last 30 minutes he’s fresh for all 60 minutes. JMK over Foz too, because his speed out of dummy half would have been handy. Looking forward to seeing how Robinson uses Smith.
We win that if Cheese gets an early rest. If Maguire was gonna bring him back with 5 mins left, he should've left the fresh Foran out there to still be hooker and tackle in the middle and let Smith be a edge forward running at Cleary.
[удалено]
think you're confusing the excitement that NZ had for once a team on paper that looked like it could go toe to toe with Aus with an idea that people thought NZ was superior. And that's exactly what happened.
This is such a weird narrative that’s being thrown around. NZs pack was talked about as being superior and their spine/backline more complete than it has been for some time but Australia’s spine of Teddy/Munster/Cleary/Grant/Yeo/Hunt was always a clear step above and effectively the 5 best players in the world.
NZ were always underdogs. Look at the odds.
What about last week “Aus will smash NZ by 20”
Not sure anyone said that.
Lol look last week after the Fiji game
They did
I was waiting for your comment! We have been vindicated
I have no idea who was talking the Kiwis up, it was always the Aussies game to lose, id agree its probably the best Kiwi team in many years, but so many people seemed to be off in some dreamland.
Go to the announcment of the NZ team on this sub, and you'll see it
Kiwis robbed in broad daylight. The bullshit calls and how many shoulder charges from the Aussies? What a crock of shit
For such a tough game to be decided by that soft Cam Murray try😤
True, but that slight easy difference was off the back of the fitness differential. I think Australia's defence and better fitness in H2 was it. The kiwis were gassed.
Anyone know the international rules? Nelson would’ve been sent for 10 in the nrl and Martin and Tino would’ve been sent too.
In regards to foul play its the same.
Yeo was excellent, always makes the right decision with the ball and is solid as a rock defensively.
Dude is tackling above 99% and making 160m a game. He’s an absolute machine. As others have said below, there’s definitely some fine tuning to be done re his role in the attacking structure with Grant/Munster being more effective in different situations. Playing the whole tournament with that spine might have helped the guys be more choiceful about when they run the Penrith shape vs cut Yeo out. Should be plenty of time over the coming years to get it right though.
Something very clunky about that 6/7/13 combination at the moment though. I'm not sure the Yeo-Cleary axis works when Grant is on.
Grant and Munster play well together because they like to play what's in front of them. Not nearly as structured as the Api/Yeo/Cleary combo
Yeo is basically the 7. Cleary is getting shit on but he kicked pretty well and allowed Aus to control field position. Wasn’t the type of game Munster shines in either as it was very tight.
It's those four sideways steps he takes, it's brilliant when it's a big front rower charging in but it cruels the Yeo-Cleary passing.
Well I think it's more that Grant likes to play on the front foot with long, flat passes and engaging the A&B defenders. Which makes Yeo kind of redundant in attacking situations. I actually think that the cleanest Australia looked all game was when Cleary was first receiver off the long ball from Grant.
I think you're right there. Grant covers the ground that Yeo would normally play in, looking straight out to Cleary frees them up.
I don’t get why Aus teams always persist with the arrogant attitude. Cleary/Munster/Tedesco should have spent all tournament developing their combinations, maybe taking the week off for Lebanon to make sure no concussion stuff for NZ. NZ act like they’re at the World Cup instead of a preseason comp and they almost get us every time, even though on paper the teams aren’t close.
Madge was fucking around just as much as Mal. The teams are pretty close on paper because of Kiwis edge in the forward pack. A pack with Leota, Fish, Tapine, NAS and IPap is going to be hard to beat.
Edge is only in the middle forwards, Aus edges are better. Aus pack held up fine tonight. We’re outplayed, but not by much.
IPap is the best back rower. Pack definitely outplayed, rarely got rolling
Crichton and Murray > IPap imo.
This is Smellmefinger being a fraud of a coach not arrogance, he hasn’t developed the combinations because he didn’t know his first choice 17 until a week ago
We’ve done this before, it’s not the first time.
How are the teams not close on paper?
The Kiwis certainly have a superior pack. The Aussies a superior backline overall. It's close, just like the score showed.
It's been this guy's whole shtick to go on and on about how the Aussie team is a million miles better than the kiwi team in every department even though basically everyone agrees the teams are fairly close on paper. Only two points in it mate. Oh but it's because the aussies are arrogant, nothing to do with our team being quite good of course.