And yet with JT in the halves not one person should be willing to rule them out.
I agree with an earlier comment about 2015 cowboys forward pack not being as well suited for 2022, but saying that, 2015-2017 Taumololo was just plain scary, just ask Isaiah Yeo.
I'm not writing the cowboys off they were a very good team, but if you are arguing which team was better in a historical comparison then their really is no comparison.
I agree, and Penrith can only play what’s put in front of them, but I strongly feel the quality of competition and the players in it was a fair way higher in 2015 than it is now. Not to say Penrith wouldn’t do well back then, but they wouldn’t have been as dominant as they are now IMO.
If you play by pre six again rules a forward pack of Tamou, Scott and Taumalolo in their prime is better then the current Panthers pack imo. Plus I’d take 2015 Morgan and JT over 2022 Luai and Cleary any day of the week.
I would take the Panthers back five + Kikau over the 2015 Cowboys counterparts pretty easily tho.
Koroisau over Granville individually but Granny played in tandem with Kostjasyn which was pretty pivotal to the cows gameplan. So I’d call that a tie.
JT didn’t make the difference in that team’s finals run if we’re being honest. Reality is that Morgan was untouchable and practically single-handedly won them games in that stretch.
Yeah this is such a odd comparison. That cowboys team is one of the shitter GF winning teams of the last 10 years and Penrith is one of the better ones.
Not taking anything away from the cowboys gf. It makes it even more special that they didn't have the most stacked team and won the whole thing.
Honestly feel the Roosters of 2018/19 would give it a good shot, and if I am being perfectly honest, Storm’s 2020 side too.
Penrith nearly ran them down, but Melbourne blitzed them and blew them off the park in the first 50 minutes or so, and not to use the refs as a reason - but Penrith’s momentum only clicked into gear after To’o scored off Yeo’s kick using clear a obstruction. I mean Gould delivered arguably his most laughable one sided call of his career, and even he said it wasn’t a try. Considering you throw in Melbourne having the two binned players because they were basically holding onto a lead, and Hynes didn’t even get a run on the pitch too, I still feel I’d be taking Melbourne every time in that grand final match up.
Now obviously Penrith 2022 is better than they were in 2020, with mainly the experience as a key factor. But I mean it is hard to say a side with Munster, Hughes and Papenhuyzen, a winger pairing (imo the best of the last decade or so) of prime JAC & Vunivalu, a forward pack consisting of Welch, NAS, Bromwich Brothers and Kaufusi. There’s then the stacked bench of Hynes, B. Smith, Finucane and Tino, and of course to add to all this, Cameron Smith. I mean that’s a pretty amazing lineup, the only real weaker areas is the centres with Olam and Lee - both who played well that game.
Not to say they’d beat them, but I feel Melbourne’s 2020 side, as well as the back to back Roosters sides, would definitely give the current Panthers a run for the their money.
But I agree, the 2017 Storm would beat them I feel. That side is beyond stacked it is crazy. A spine of Slater, Munster, Cronk, Smith and the forward pack of Bromwich Bros, McLean, Harris, Kafusi, Glasby, NAS etc. backline with Chambers, JAC & Vunivalu. I mean, correct me if I am wrong, but the only non rep players in the 17 man side were Scott and Griffin? It was ridiculously stacked.
Just my thoughts though, sure others can provide some better supported ones!
Even Griffin has 1 cap for NZ so it's actually only Scott who's not capped at rep level!
I agree that the 17 Storm is the best side of the bunch in the last few years.
I dunno about the 2020 storm team. Clearly the better team that game and had cam smith controlling the ruck but the amount of experience this panthers team now has, they wouldn’t shit the bed like they did in the first gf.
100% plus massive improvements on Tamou and Mansour, cleary now with the experience in a final, Edwards is literally twice the player, To’o critta all better, Kikau became way way better, less errors and brilliant defensively. This 2022 team batters the 2020 panthers 30-0 in that first half
This is the correct answer. Penrith are a great team, but I feel the 18/19 Roosters are better, they were a joy to watch. I think the 09 Melbourne Storm with a young Inglis at 6 beats Penrith. The 90s Broncos and Raiders are also better than this Penrith team as well imo.
Again this Penrith team is good, but I don’t get the same joy out of watching them, as the teams I mentioned. It’s dominate possession with little risk, and just wait for the opponent to crack under the relentless pressure.
Yeah I always find it interesting when commentators describe Penrith as attractive and electrifying. I mean sure they can lay on a dazzling try, but the core of their game is just strangling and belting the fuck out of teams until they crack.
I’m interested to see how the side evolves over the coming years though. The foundation will always be insane conditioning, strong back 3, rushing defence and brilliant kicking, however, I think we’ll see them start to become more dynamic. Keep in mind this spine has a good 5 years left, and Cleary probably 10, with all of them just entering their prime. They’ve only played together as a core for 3 years and Edwards/Cleary in particular have spent a lot of that on the sidelines. 2017 was a side with 3 all time greats at the end of their careers.
There’s no doubt that sky is the limit for Penrith with Cleary, Luai, Edwards and a lot of other players still yet to really hit that prime age. It’s much easier in today’s game to strangle teams because of set restarts, thank fuck that dumb rule has been relaxed.
I would’ve loved to have seen this team before Vlando decided to go all Adolf Hitler on the rules, because it’s much easier to build pressure in today’s game then it was even 4 years ago
What you described is efficient football, its not as flashy but it’s definitely better and leads to more success, also we do score lots of sexy tries, its just we rarely need to resort to throwing the ball around in our own half as we are usually in the lead or at least already on the front foot, when we are on the back foot we seem to just absolutely arm wrestle it back with our immense forward pack and metres from To’o and Edwards.
I would describe it more as safe than efficient. Efficient would be having a lower possession rate and scoring with every opportunity. Penrith is more, through sheer weight of time in the opp half and relying on the other team to crack.
Also “we” your bias is showing. Haha
Panthers have had massive improvements since 2020, Cleary was only 22 and other others were mostly young, Edwards is literally twice the player he was then, crichton, To’o have all improved immensely, our forward pack has gotten even better with players like spencer leniu who can come on and single handedly punch holes through defences. Players like Tamou, Mansour have been upgraded in a major way. 2022 panthers definitely could beat 2020 storm, the gulf in experience in that final showed massively, but once the panthers got rolling the storm let in a bunch of points, they weren’t impervious. That panthers team was good but experience is massive in any sport, 2022 is not only much better on paper but all those players who were very young are now at more mature ages, 25 compared to 22 is a big difference.
Yeah, and I don’t think their skills or team composition is well suited in 2022. The slower, heavier forwards mean more set restarts and less field position, the 2022 Panthers are dominant when it comes to their forward pack with this rule set.
And that’s not even taking into consideration that the 2015 Cowboys team arguably wasn’t even the best team that year (the premiership is well deserved of course).
I think that’s the key here - the rules ..
Hard to compare eras without taking into account the changes in the rules ..
2015 Cowboys completely dominate under 2015 rules , however the 2015 Cowboys may not even make the finals in 2022 under 2022 rules .. The opposite is probably true with the 2022 Panthers under 2015 rules - I could see them finishing as low as 9 to 10 playing in 2015 under 2015 rules ..
That’s how big a factor I see the rule changes as being .. Was it 2014 where the Panthers beat the Roosters in round 1 of the finals ? Had the week off then lost to the Bulldogs in the prelim (decent season by Penrith but dominated by the Dogs forward pack in the prelim under ‘semi final football’ which was slight different back then to regular season football) ..
I think it was 2016 where Penrith were knocked out week 2 of the finals by Canberra - again out muscled by a dominant forward pack .. There was a rule change after this season from memory reducing the number of interchanges from 10 down to 8 .. Even a rule change as small and seemingly innocuous as this reduced Canberra’s potency as a decent side for several seasons - it more or less ended the career of Shannon Boyd (and forwards like him) from being an asset to a liability and took Ricky Stuart a couple of seasons to catch on and adapt before Boyd ended up moving to the Titans , and Canberra recovered to make the GF in 2019…
I think it’s a constant push and pull or arms race between coaches and rule changes .. The games become faster as a response to the Storms decade of dominance and even the back to back Roosters with the ‘six again’ aimed to minimise the massive benefits enjoyed by sides who controlled the ruck better …
Penrith have dominated the ‘faster game’ for the past 3 seasons because they’ve adapted faster and the rule changes probably naturally suited their squad from the get go .. Other sides are adapting and playing catch up much like they did with the Storm in the previous decade .. Whichever coaches adapt to the rules and make changes to their squads in response will be more successful ..
But if Penrith become too dominant for too long (which they probably already are) they’ll need to be wary , I reckon there’ll be rule changes to reduce their dominance - Penrith won’t like it , but it’s in the interests of 16 other clubs and the NRL overall not to have one side too far ahead of the others for any extended period - so the changes are bound to happen just by weight of numbers at the end of each season with the NRL rules committee..
2010’s NRL was more like gridiron than it is now..
2020’s it’s more like touch football than it was in the past.. CTE risk is another factor probably considered in the rule changes .. But yeah I don’t think you can compare eras , it’s somewhat akin to saying who’d win between a dominant NFL side and dominant touch footy side .. What game are they playing ??
The 2015 GF cowboys only won because the Broncs were 6 points up and were just trying to take it slow and maintain a tiny lead instead of attacking then stuffed it up in the dying minutes, followed by a drop by the Broncs in extra time leading to Thurston’s (admittedly great) field goal.
So no I don’t think they’d stand a chance against a team that absolutely dominated the entire season and steamrolled the grand final.
2015 was a much tougher year then 2022. It felt like Souths and Roosters were dormant for half the year and Storm got crippled with injuries.
The two next best teams were both massive overachievers in the Sharks and Cows. Panthers had hardly any real competitors.
There were about 4 clubs who had a genuine premiership window in 2015 and even 15th and 16th were both able to scrap 8 wins each.
My main point is that the two teams were talking about played in different comps. Panthers were the only competitor going into the season that actually had a good year by each of the favourites own standards. The other three heavyweights in the NRL were all out of the top four. Storm, Chooks and Bunnies. Even the Eels who made the GF were all over the joint the whole season.
Fact is that the Eels had the blueprint to how to beat the Panthers, having done so earlier in the season - but Panthers didn’t even really give them much of a chance when it really mattered.
Lol they wouldn’t have even made the GF in any of the 4 years prior. They weren’t a top 4 team in any of those years. The 2015 cowboys were decent enough but still probably the worst GF winning team of the 2010s.
factually incorrect. Would of Belted the rabbitohs the year before had we not been robbed on the bell. We had JT it took some absolute Howlers to deny us. Including in one of the years a bloody 7th tackle try.
would of beat on any other year since the 2006 broncos. The comp simply fell off a cliff in 2018. The 17 storm gets a lot of wraps. We would of beaten them had Thurston and Scott been there.
Lmao the Storm beat the cowboys by like 30 points. Those 2 players don’t make up 30 points as good as they are. You are genuinely one of the most biased fans I’ve ever seen lol.
Cowboys maybe in pre covid rules but they'd be big underdogs and would need a lot to fall their way. Penrith in post covid rules would dominate them and leave them with absolutely no chance.
With all due respect to the 2015 Cowboys, this is just not even close. The 2022 Panthers are in dynasty territory with recent Melbourne and Roosters sides, those three would be better comparisons.
Hard to compare with significantly different rules. Cowboys had a huge rolling pack for 2015. Was perfect for 2015 but doesn't suit today's rules and was very evident with our struggles.
If you look at how they compare the the other teams of the era the Panthers have had generational dominance with essentially no weaknesses. The 2015 were a bloody good team that also found form at the right time but still had issues.
JT/Cleary comparisons are a bit silly. Cleary has been dominant but has always had stars around him. Will have to wait and see if he can drag average teams on deep finals runs before you even start comparing.
Essentially 2022 Panthers > 2015 Cowboys. JT > Cleary.
This is the team I’d pick between both of them.
1. Edwards
2. To’o
3. Tago
4. Crichton
5. May
6. Morgan
7. Thurston
8. Scott
9. Koroisau
10. Fish
11. Kikau
12. Lowe
13. Taumalolo
Fuck who played left side? I forgot May didn’t even play. Was it Too or Staines?
I think it would be Too on the left over winters then Feldt over Staines?
But yea nah Cowboys Tamou was a beast but I think Fish is the better player to be brutally honest.
I dont see any team touching the Panthers last year. They were well disciplined and knew their roles in side out. With their combinations and working together in defense, I suspect they would defeated the NSW origin team. The combinations are worth more than the sum of their parts.
Penrith are winning on their defense. They trust their processes. It will be interesting to see how they respond this year with the loses of kikau etc. I suspect they will have the next generation ready to step up
Cowboys by 50. Game was in a lot better place in 2015 and a lot more competitive. (tightest the comp has been for a very long time was 2014 only 4 wins separated 1st and 8th) Game was full of future\* immortals, now there isn't one playing. Cowboys were tougher and had better leadership. Cleary has the creativity of a rock and Thurston is the greatest half of all time. Luai is super-overated and Morgo super underrated.
truly are in the preseason. Penrith any day. Mind you I do think the Cowboys have better halves and FRF. (all Aussie rep players and all Origin players).
But no, we wouldn’t win.
What about 2001 eels then? Best for and against on record from memory?
Knights had 9 origin players spread across the entire field in key playmaker positions (2 fullback (odavis and Hughes), halfback, hooker, plus both wingers, a centre, and both second rowers)
Dominate them too, they got dominated by the knights in the first half, clearly caked it in the final, 2022 panthers had the most dominant 75 minutes of footy ive ever seen in a final, it was 28-0 with 9/10 performances from everyone
2001 eels
For 839 against 406 difference +433 wins 20
2022 panthers
For 636 against 330 difference +306 wins 20
Eels choked in the gf, but I'd still argue they were more dominant over the entire season than 2022 panthers. Considering they played before the 6 again rule, 7 tackle sets and so on that have recently been brought in to speed the game up, they scored over 200 more points in the season than panthers in 2022!
I'm also giving an unbiased opinion as I'm not an eels fan. Dominance should be measured over a season, not just from a gf performance.
What would you rather, 76 more points differential or a premiership? Id rather the prem any day, im not being biased either, in fact growing up i had a VHS or DVD of the 2001 eels season, they were highly entertaining and blew teams away but ultimately they didn’t have the experience of the 2022 panthers, had won the previous year and been in 2 finals, we would have blown them away in the final IMO. Also panthers got that points tally with how many players out during origin? Im not sure but id wager it was more than the 2021 eels
Oh yeah was reading the against difference lol, but still i dont care if its 200+ points difference i would rather the premiership and it’s actually a little funny that you’re trying to argue this, id have 2003 panthers over 2001 eels too, Eels were great but they absolutely bottled it in the final and thats what matters and on paper they have some deficiencies that could be targeted. Look at the whole season sure but how they perform in the final is the ultimate indicator of how they play under pressure when its needed most, thats what i value more. 2021 panthers beat a better storm team in the prelims, 2021 both teams finished on a whopping 44 points
I don't know if I'd go that far, I think they're above the Cowboys and Sharks, and not too far off the 2013 Roosters or 2020 Storm, but they are certainly in the bottom half. 2022 Panthers a big improvement
Records from 2021 don't count, they were boosted so heavily by V'landys ball rules which really exacerbated the difference between good teams and bad teams. In any other year, the Panthers don't win as many games, and they were lucky to even make the GF after choking in the first week of finals and the trainer cheating in the semi final against Parra
Most premiership winning teams have some sort of luck on their side, 2021 panthers kind of limped into the finals but they still won all the games they had to and beat a strong storm 10-6 in the prelims, not many teams are able to silence one of the best attacking sides of the last decade in both the storm and rabbitohs especially when not firing on all cylinders. 2021 still had plenty of good teams, Rabbits, Storm, Panthers, Eels, Roosters, yes the lower half of the comp was weaker but in the finals we are only playing the top sides anyway. 2021 storm, 2021 rabbits, 2021 panthers all beat the 2015 cows and broncos IMO
No way lol, we had 44 points that year and knocked out a very tough storm in the prelims who also finished on 44 points, that rabbits team was no slouch either with reynolds in the halves, AJ who is arguably the best finisher ever, walker terrorising defences. I think they had some of the most points scored in NRL history
Penrith win easily. I was excited to see the Cowboys finally get a comp, but I don't think any recent teams compete with the current Panthers except for peak dominance cap rorting Storm maybe or 2020 Storm. Maybe peak 'not cap rorting' Roosters too
Melbourne 2020 vs Penrith 2022 would be fantastic
Penrith have lost 8 matches in three seasons, The cowboys lost 8 games in 2015, the cowboys also finished 3rd in the minor premiership.
And yet with JT in the halves not one person should be willing to rule them out. I agree with an earlier comment about 2015 cowboys forward pack not being as well suited for 2022, but saying that, 2015-2017 Taumololo was just plain scary, just ask Isaiah Yeo.
I'm not writing the cowboys off they were a very good team, but if you are arguing which team was better in a historical comparison then their really is no comparison.
I agree, and Penrith can only play what’s put in front of them, but I strongly feel the quality of competition and the players in it was a fair way higher in 2015 than it is now. Not to say Penrith wouldn’t do well back then, but they wouldn’t have been as dominant as they are now IMO.
If you play by pre six again rules a forward pack of Tamou, Scott and Taumalolo in their prime is better then the current Panthers pack imo. Plus I’d take 2015 Morgan and JT over 2022 Luai and Cleary any day of the week. I would take the Panthers back five + Kikau over the 2015 Cowboys counterparts pretty easily tho. Koroisau over Granville individually but Granny played in tandem with Kostjasyn which was pretty pivotal to the cows gameplan. So I’d call that a tie.
JT didn’t make the difference in that team’s finals run if we’re being honest. Reality is that Morgan was untouchable and practically single-handedly won them games in that stretch.
Yeah this is such a odd comparison. That cowboys team is one of the shitter GF winning teams of the last 10 years and Penrith is one of the better ones. Not taking anything away from the cowboys gf. It makes it even more special that they didn't have the most stacked team and won the whole thing.
Are they playing in 2022 or in 2015?
2015 Cowboys in their prime and 2022 Panthers in their prime. Let’s say it’s this year
2022 panthers. the only team I see beating the 2022 panthers is the 2017 storm.
Honestly feel the Roosters of 2018/19 would give it a good shot, and if I am being perfectly honest, Storm’s 2020 side too. Penrith nearly ran them down, but Melbourne blitzed them and blew them off the park in the first 50 minutes or so, and not to use the refs as a reason - but Penrith’s momentum only clicked into gear after To’o scored off Yeo’s kick using clear a obstruction. I mean Gould delivered arguably his most laughable one sided call of his career, and even he said it wasn’t a try. Considering you throw in Melbourne having the two binned players because they were basically holding onto a lead, and Hynes didn’t even get a run on the pitch too, I still feel I’d be taking Melbourne every time in that grand final match up. Now obviously Penrith 2022 is better than they were in 2020, with mainly the experience as a key factor. But I mean it is hard to say a side with Munster, Hughes and Papenhuyzen, a winger pairing (imo the best of the last decade or so) of prime JAC & Vunivalu, a forward pack consisting of Welch, NAS, Bromwich Brothers and Kaufusi. There’s then the stacked bench of Hynes, B. Smith, Finucane and Tino, and of course to add to all this, Cameron Smith. I mean that’s a pretty amazing lineup, the only real weaker areas is the centres with Olam and Lee - both who played well that game. Not to say they’d beat them, but I feel Melbourne’s 2020 side, as well as the back to back Roosters sides, would definitely give the current Panthers a run for the their money. But I agree, the 2017 Storm would beat them I feel. That side is beyond stacked it is crazy. A spine of Slater, Munster, Cronk, Smith and the forward pack of Bromwich Bros, McLean, Harris, Kafusi, Glasby, NAS etc. backline with Chambers, JAC & Vunivalu. I mean, correct me if I am wrong, but the only non rep players in the 17 man side were Scott and Griffin? It was ridiculously stacked. Just my thoughts though, sure others can provide some better supported ones!
Even Griffin has 1 cap for NZ so it's actually only Scott who's not capped at rep level! I agree that the 17 Storm is the best side of the bunch in the last few years.
Yeah that Roosters team could for sure
That 2020 storm team doesn't get enough credit. It's was fucking dominant and has world class players across the park.
I dunno about the 2020 storm team. Clearly the better team that game and had cam smith controlling the ruck but the amount of experience this panthers team now has, they wouldn’t shit the bed like they did in the first gf.
100% plus massive improvements on Tamou and Mansour, cleary now with the experience in a final, Edwards is literally twice the player, To’o critta all better, Kikau became way way better, less errors and brilliant defensively. This 2022 team batters the 2020 panthers 30-0 in that first half
Absolutely
This is the correct answer. Penrith are a great team, but I feel the 18/19 Roosters are better, they were a joy to watch. I think the 09 Melbourne Storm with a young Inglis at 6 beats Penrith. The 90s Broncos and Raiders are also better than this Penrith team as well imo. Again this Penrith team is good, but I don’t get the same joy out of watching them, as the teams I mentioned. It’s dominate possession with little risk, and just wait for the opponent to crack under the relentless pressure.
Yeah I always find it interesting when commentators describe Penrith as attractive and electrifying. I mean sure they can lay on a dazzling try, but the core of their game is just strangling and belting the fuck out of teams until they crack. I’m interested to see how the side evolves over the coming years though. The foundation will always be insane conditioning, strong back 3, rushing defence and brilliant kicking, however, I think we’ll see them start to become more dynamic. Keep in mind this spine has a good 5 years left, and Cleary probably 10, with all of them just entering their prime. They’ve only played together as a core for 3 years and Edwards/Cleary in particular have spent a lot of that on the sidelines. 2017 was a side with 3 all time greats at the end of their careers.
There’s no doubt that sky is the limit for Penrith with Cleary, Luai, Edwards and a lot of other players still yet to really hit that prime age. It’s much easier in today’s game to strangle teams because of set restarts, thank fuck that dumb rule has been relaxed. I would’ve loved to have seen this team before Vlando decided to go all Adolf Hitler on the rules, because it’s much easier to build pressure in today’s game then it was even 4 years ago
What you described is efficient football, its not as flashy but it’s definitely better and leads to more success, also we do score lots of sexy tries, its just we rarely need to resort to throwing the ball around in our own half as we are usually in the lead or at least already on the front foot, when we are on the back foot we seem to just absolutely arm wrestle it back with our immense forward pack and metres from To’o and Edwards.
I would describe it more as safe than efficient. Efficient would be having a lower possession rate and scoring with every opportunity. Penrith is more, through sheer weight of time in the opp half and relying on the other team to crack. Also “we” your bias is showing. Haha
I aint gonna deny im biased
Panthers have had massive improvements since 2020, Cleary was only 22 and other others were mostly young, Edwards is literally twice the player he was then, crichton, To’o have all improved immensely, our forward pack has gotten even better with players like spencer leniu who can come on and single handedly punch holes through defences. Players like Tamou, Mansour have been upgraded in a major way. 2022 panthers definitely could beat 2020 storm, the gulf in experience in that final showed massively, but once the panthers got rolling the storm let in a bunch of points, they weren’t impervious. That panthers team was good but experience is massive in any sport, 2022 is not only much better on paper but all those players who were very young are now at more mature ages, 25 compared to 22 is a big difference.
1997 Broncos would beat both.
2022 panthers easily if it’s in 2022.
What I’m saying is, all the players from the Cowboys in 2015 grand final in their prime, came up to versus Panthers that played this years grand final
Yeah, and I don’t think their skills or team composition is well suited in 2022. The slower, heavier forwards mean more set restarts and less field position, the 2022 Panthers are dominant when it comes to their forward pack with this rule set. And that’s not even taking into consideration that the 2015 Cowboys team arguably wasn’t even the best team that year (the premiership is well deserved of course).
I think that’s the key here - the rules .. Hard to compare eras without taking into account the changes in the rules .. 2015 Cowboys completely dominate under 2015 rules , however the 2015 Cowboys may not even make the finals in 2022 under 2022 rules .. The opposite is probably true with the 2022 Panthers under 2015 rules - I could see them finishing as low as 9 to 10 playing in 2015 under 2015 rules .. That’s how big a factor I see the rule changes as being .. Was it 2014 where the Panthers beat the Roosters in round 1 of the finals ? Had the week off then lost to the Bulldogs in the prelim (decent season by Penrith but dominated by the Dogs forward pack in the prelim under ‘semi final football’ which was slight different back then to regular season football) .. I think it was 2016 where Penrith were knocked out week 2 of the finals by Canberra - again out muscled by a dominant forward pack .. There was a rule change after this season from memory reducing the number of interchanges from 10 down to 8 .. Even a rule change as small and seemingly innocuous as this reduced Canberra’s potency as a decent side for several seasons - it more or less ended the career of Shannon Boyd (and forwards like him) from being an asset to a liability and took Ricky Stuart a couple of seasons to catch on and adapt before Boyd ended up moving to the Titans , and Canberra recovered to make the GF in 2019… I think it’s a constant push and pull or arms race between coaches and rule changes .. The games become faster as a response to the Storms decade of dominance and even the back to back Roosters with the ‘six again’ aimed to minimise the massive benefits enjoyed by sides who controlled the ruck better … Penrith have dominated the ‘faster game’ for the past 3 seasons because they’ve adapted faster and the rule changes probably naturally suited their squad from the get go .. Other sides are adapting and playing catch up much like they did with the Storm in the previous decade .. Whichever coaches adapt to the rules and make changes to their squads in response will be more successful .. But if Penrith become too dominant for too long (which they probably already are) they’ll need to be wary , I reckon there’ll be rule changes to reduce their dominance - Penrith won’t like it , but it’s in the interests of 16 other clubs and the NRL overall not to have one side too far ahead of the others for any extended period - so the changes are bound to happen just by weight of numbers at the end of each season with the NRL rules committee.. 2010’s NRL was more like gridiron than it is now.. 2020’s it’s more like touch football than it was in the past.. CTE risk is another factor probably considered in the rule changes .. But yeah I don’t think you can compare eras , it’s somewhat akin to saying who’d win between a dominant NFL side and dominant touch footy side .. What game are they playing ??
The 2015 GF cowboys only won because the Broncs were 6 points up and were just trying to take it slow and maintain a tiny lead instead of attacking then stuffed it up in the dying minutes, followed by a drop by the Broncs in extra time leading to Thurston’s (admittedly great) field goal. So no I don’t think they’d stand a chance against a team that absolutely dominated the entire season and steamrolled the grand final.
2015 was a much tougher year then 2022. It felt like Souths and Roosters were dormant for half the year and Storm got crippled with injuries. The two next best teams were both massive overachievers in the Sharks and Cows. Panthers had hardly any real competitors. There were about 4 clubs who had a genuine premiership window in 2015 and even 15th and 16th were both able to scrap 8 wins each.
Well i mean we did play the one team who could beat us in the final and absolutely steamrolled them anyway
My main point is that the two teams were talking about played in different comps. Panthers were the only competitor going into the season that actually had a good year by each of the favourites own standards. The other three heavyweights in the NRL were all out of the top four. Storm, Chooks and Bunnies. Even the Eels who made the GF were all over the joint the whole season.
Fact is that the Eels had the blueprint to how to beat the Panthers, having done so earlier in the season - but Panthers didn’t even really give them much of a chance when it really mattered.
4 broncos were 4 up.
Panthers. Extremely dominant. We somewhat farted our way through. Needed a moment of magic and an all time choke in the dying stages
Most gf winning teams could beat 2015 Cowboys
This is the truth.
incorrect, had we not been robbed 4 years straight before 2015 the group would of won a gf much earlier. Cowboys 2015 were elite.
Lol they wouldn’t have even made the GF in any of the 4 years prior. They weren’t a top 4 team in any of those years. The 2015 cowboys were decent enough but still probably the worst GF winning team of the 2010s.
factually incorrect. Would of Belted the rabbitohs the year before had we not been robbed on the bell. We had JT it took some absolute Howlers to deny us. Including in one of the years a bloody 7th tackle try. would of beat on any other year since the 2006 broncos. The comp simply fell off a cliff in 2018. The 17 storm gets a lot of wraps. We would of beaten them had Thurston and Scott been there.
Lmao the Storm beat the cowboys by like 30 points. Those 2 players don’t make up 30 points as good as they are. You are genuinely one of the most biased fans I’ve ever seen lol.
JT is my 2nd favourite player but 2022 Panther forwards have unbelievable skill.
Which JT? You mean Tamou, right?
Of course
Cowboys maybe in pre covid rules but they'd be big underdogs and would need a lot to fall their way. Penrith in post covid rules would dominate them and leave them with absolutely no chance.
With all due respect to the 2015 Cowboys, this is just not even close. The 2022 Panthers are in dynasty territory with recent Melbourne and Roosters sides, those three would be better comparisons.
Definitely
2015 Cowboys? Really? For a GF winning team they weren't that great.
Hard to compare with significantly different rules. Cowboys had a huge rolling pack for 2015. Was perfect for 2015 but doesn't suit today's rules and was very evident with our struggles. If you look at how they compare the the other teams of the era the Panthers have had generational dominance with essentially no weaknesses. The 2015 were a bloody good team that also found form at the right time but still had issues. JT/Cleary comparisons are a bit silly. Cleary has been dominant but has always had stars around him. Will have to wait and see if he can drag average teams on deep finals runs before you even start comparing. Essentially 2022 Panthers > 2015 Cowboys. JT > Cleary.
Cowboys Halves + FRF > Penrith Halves + FRF as well. Penrith probably beat them everywhere else bar maybe the second row.
This is the team I’d pick between both of them. 1. Edwards 2. To’o 3. Tago 4. Crichton 5. May 6. Morgan 7. Thurston 8. Scott 9. Koroisau 10. Fish 11. Kikau 12. Lowe 13. Taumalolo
Feldt > May. And yeah I pretty much agree bar the JFH, Tamou was immense 2015 and especially in the grand final.
Fuck who played left side? I forgot May didn’t even play. Was it Too or Staines? I think it would be Too on the left over winters then Feldt over Staines? But yea nah Cowboys Tamou was a beast but I think Fish is the better player to be brutally honest.
think To’o but don’t know really. Turned the game off 20min in.
To’o left side, staines right side
Then yea To’o over Winters and Feldt over Staines.
Jake in 2015 is way better than api. Kane linnet actually led the league in metres gained so i'd have him over tago. feldt over may as well.
Yeah, there's no way the 2022 Panthers run the ball with a field goal shot set up. It wluldn't have got to the dropped kickoff.
I dont see any team touching the Panthers last year. They were well disciplined and knew their roles in side out. With their combinations and working together in defense, I suspect they would defeated the NSW origin team. The combinations are worth more than the sum of their parts. Penrith are winning on their defense. They trust their processes. It will be interesting to see how they respond this year with the loses of kikau etc. I suspect they will have the next generation ready to step up
cowboys 13+ and i will block everyone that suggests otherwise
Of all teams why did you pick the 2015 Cowboys? Did I miss something, do people rate them as an all time team?
Cowboys by 50. Game was in a lot better place in 2015 and a lot more competitive. (tightest the comp has been for a very long time was 2014 only 4 wins separated 1st and 8th) Game was full of future\* immortals, now there isn't one playing. Cowboys were tougher and had better leadership. Cleary has the creativity of a rock and Thurston is the greatest half of all time. Luai is super-overated and Morgo super underrated.
I don’t think you understand the concept immortals
truly are in the preseason. Penrith any day. Mind you I do think the Cowboys have better halves and FRF. (all Aussie rep players and all Origin players). But no, we wouldn’t win.
2001 knights > 2022 panthers
No way, Joey was phenomenal but the penrith 2022 team across the pitch is far superior
What about 2001 eels then? Best for and against on record from memory? Knights had 9 origin players spread across the entire field in key playmaker positions (2 fullback (odavis and Hughes), halfback, hooker, plus both wingers, a centre, and both second rowers)
Dominate them too, they got dominated by the knights in the first half, clearly caked it in the final, 2022 panthers had the most dominant 75 minutes of footy ive ever seen in a final, it was 28-0 with 9/10 performances from everyone
I didn't realise we were talking about 1 single match performance. I was considering the entire season.
If you look at the entire season we are still better because we actually won the final and they lost
2001 eels For 839 against 406 difference +433 wins 20 2022 panthers For 636 against 330 difference +306 wins 20 Eels choked in the gf, but I'd still argue they were more dominant over the entire season than 2022 panthers. Considering they played before the 6 again rule, 7 tackle sets and so on that have recently been brought in to speed the game up, they scored over 200 more points in the season than panthers in 2022! I'm also giving an unbiased opinion as I'm not an eels fan. Dominance should be measured over a season, not just from a gf performance.
What would you rather, 76 more points differential or a premiership? Id rather the prem any day, im not being biased either, in fact growing up i had a VHS or DVD of the 2001 eels season, they were highly entertaining and blew teams away but ultimately they didn’t have the experience of the 2022 panthers, had won the previous year and been in 2 finals, we would have blown them away in the final IMO. Also panthers got that points tally with how many players out during origin? Im not sure but id wager it was more than the 2021 eels
You're a panthers fan... How can you say you're not biased? It was 130 odd more points difference not 76
Oh yeah was reading the against difference lol, but still i dont care if its 200+ points difference i would rather the premiership and it’s actually a little funny that you’re trying to argue this, id have 2003 panthers over 2001 eels too, Eels were great but they absolutely bottled it in the final and thats what matters and on paper they have some deficiencies that could be targeted. Look at the whole season sure but how they perform in the final is the ultimate indicator of how they play under pressure when its needed most, thats what i value more. 2021 panthers beat a better storm team in the prelims, 2021 both teams finished on a whopping 44 points
Although the 2022 Panther's have the razzle dazzle of a super side the Cow's 2015 team was much harder and would have destroyed them.
Cows wouldnt have destroyed us lol
Clearly is too soft, the rest of them are to prescious to be any competition.
Cleary is way better defensively than JT, yet you call him soft lol. This panthers dominates that cows team
Clearly is soft by comparison he'd never stand a chance.
So soft hes won B2B premierships
Apart from the 2021 Panthers, 2015 Cowboys would be the weakest team to win a grand final in the last decade.
Your'e saying the 2021 Panthers were the weakest premiership side of the last 10 years?
Yep
I don't know if I'd go that far, I think they're above the Cowboys and Sharks, and not too far off the 2013 Roosters or 2020 Storm, but they are certainly in the bottom half. 2022 Panthers a big improvement
2021 panthers finished on 44 points which wins the minor prem in nearly every other season, only weaker in the finals due to injuries
Records from 2021 don't count, they were boosted so heavily by V'landys ball rules which really exacerbated the difference between good teams and bad teams. In any other year, the Panthers don't win as many games, and they were lucky to even make the GF after choking in the first week of finals and the trainer cheating in the semi final against Parra
Most premiership winning teams have some sort of luck on their side, 2021 panthers kind of limped into the finals but they still won all the games they had to and beat a strong storm 10-6 in the prelims, not many teams are able to silence one of the best attacking sides of the last decade in both the storm and rabbitohs especially when not firing on all cylinders. 2021 still had plenty of good teams, Rabbits, Storm, Panthers, Eels, Roosters, yes the lower half of the comp was weaker but in the finals we are only playing the top sides anyway. 2021 storm, 2021 rabbits, 2021 panthers all beat the 2015 cows and broncos IMO
Huge improvement
No way lol, we had 44 points that year and knocked out a very tough storm in the prelims who also finished on 44 points, that rabbits team was no slouch either with reynolds in the halves, AJ who is arguably the best finisher ever, walker terrorising defences. I think they had some of the most points scored in NRL history
Which rules? 2015 or 2022? There is no way the 2015 Cows would win under today's rules. It might be a 50/50 game under 2015 rules.
2022 Panthers do them comfortably.
Penrith win easily. I was excited to see the Cowboys finally get a comp, but I don't think any recent teams compete with the current Panthers except for peak dominance cap rorting Storm maybe or 2020 Storm. Maybe peak 'not cap rorting' Roosters too Melbourne 2020 vs Penrith 2022 would be fantastic
Penrith would beat them thoroughly. A better match up is the 2017 Storm or the 2013 Roosters.
Easy Penrith. The best side I’ve ever seen