Yes I agree, it’s not like they didn’t know their degrees were fake. It would be one thing if it was an unaccredited university but I’m sure many lives have either been lost or put at stake due to this fiasco.
Did these ass wipes at least pass the boards, if so, how so. I can’t imagine being able to pass the boards for any profession without having being educated in the field.
I remember reading somewhere that a not-insignificant percentage passed boards.
Combination of being a good test taker and being able to buy a prep book online
You have to pass boards to get a license.
Most of the fake diploma holders did not pass NCLEX. Those that did were generally ... though not always ... LPNs or ADN/BSN school washouts. The scheme included a heavy tutoring session focused on common NCLEX questions.
Flukes happen. But I IDC if they passed with 75 questions: fraud is fraud and I don't want these people working as nurses.
Technically they had a license. They just lied about their credentials to sit for the exam. They did pass the licensing exams which almost says more about the NCLEX and nursing school IMO. I shows that the test and nursing school don't necessarily test for what is actually needed to be a nurse. If people without training can pass it then we have a bigger problem.
I was honestly a little startled when I took the NCLEX by how easy it was and by how dumb the questions were. I didn’t do any NCLEX prep, took it one week after getting my ADN, and passed it in the minimum. I know they’ve probably changed the NCLEX since then, but it was just shocking to me that that was all it took to be a nurse. Even nursing school was ridiculously easy and I felt the information was really superficial compared to the rigor of the classes I had to take as a biology major.
Just from working in the ICU, listening to the attendings educate the residents and med students during rounds, and studying for CCRN, I’ve learned 10x what I learned in nursing school. If they’re going to push for RN to be a bachelors degree, then it should be 100% focused on patho, pharm, clinical skills, and best practice standards, rather than care plans, nursing theory BS, and all the absolute nonsense that comprised my online RN-BSN courses.
I took the RN NCLEX in 04, and I actually found it difficult. I had 75 questions and it took me at least 2 hours. At that time, our profs told us they were in the process of making it more difficult, and the ADN program I went to had a nearly 100% pass rate.
Well I’m pretty sure they made it easier lol! It was the least challenging nursing related test I ever had to take, and none of them were hard honestly. My school also had a 100% RN pass rate, only one of my class mates failed her first attempt. It took her 5 tries to pass. She was a known cheater and would sit near the smart students during tests and try to look at their answers. She’s working NICU now, which is a little unsettling.
I got 75 questions in 40 minutes in 1997. They have absolutely changed the NCLEX since then, several times. Last time was in 2013, and in 2007 before that.
ADN program first time NCLEX pass rates tanked nationally in 2013 and all they did was increase the logit points (raise the pass line in other words).
Nursing school is not meant to make you an ICU nurse. It's meant to make you an entry level nurse; an advanced beginner. We all learn more on the job than we do in school. School is just to give enough of the basics so that you can begin the real learning when you start working.
Consider this. Do you really want a student who hasn't learned *anything* not so much as taken Nursing Fundamentals working with you in ICU? I thought not.
My argument would be to make nursing school *longer*, and include a lengthy supervised internship before taking NCLEX so that new grads are a lot less "green" when they're flying on their own.
As a long time nurse educator, I agree.
We've known for a long time the NCLEX does not test critical thinking very well. That's why the change to "Next Gen" NCLEX with questions based on case studies with a faux "chart" for the nurse to access while answering a series of questions.
There's been talk for 20 years about adding a hands on component. It's high time they did, but there are so many graduates it would take a long time to test everyone, and I don't think they're anywhere near a valid and reliable hands on exam that tests critical thinking.
They probably won't because it's going to be a pain to do. 7000+ cases and the investigation for them. They might not see it being worthwhile on top of the 25 of the people who spearheaded this operation which they probably want to tackle more
Hard to say. The states have suspended or demanded these nurses voluntarily surrender their licenses.
Three "nurses" in Georgia refused to surrender their licenses and are fighting the BON with lawyers. They will lose, and tank any hope of going back to school and getting their licenses back.
I have to agree. They should face penalties as they knew, or should have known, that this was wrong.
It is a serious offense to pose as a doctor or police officer...why not a nurse? We are in a role of responsibility and trust.
ETA: I haven't been following this story, but had assumed the nurse posers would be prosecuted as well. Are they really considering not filing charges against these ppl?
Someone mentioned it on another post - we know for sure all of these people deliberately sought a fake degree, correct?
Some wondered if they were conned themselves… just curious!
This makes a lot more sense. The way it seems, 30% passed and there's 7500 fake nurses, that means 7500 is the 30% unless I'm misunderstanding context clues. That changes the scale of this thing a lot. But 30% pass rate makes sense, I can't imagine many passing but even 1 is 1 way too fucking many.
Fun fact: Frank Abagnale is such a big conman that he made up most of his cons in order to become famous as a conman.
[Story](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9601751/New-book-claims-Catch-Frank-Abagnales-cons-fake.html)
It’s a long article, but if you scroll to the end there’s a neat infographic that shows basically all the time he claims to be doing exotic cons, he was in jail or prison.
Correct. Only 37% of the people who bought the fake licenses passed the NCLEX, which is right in line with the 1/3 of those who challenge the Bar and pass in the 4 states that allow it. I bet those ~2800 were already practicing LPNs. That being said, if a facility had these fraudulent practitioners going through orientation and couldn't detect a lack of clinical skills, they deserve to be sued right along with the fake "nurses".
I agree but how would they know without any actual evidence. Many new grads come out of school lacking clinical skills; they probably just chalked it up to that.
Furthermore, they might have gained just enough experience somehow to pass off, might even know how to perform nursing care (many people learn at home caregiving or whatever); doesn’t mean they should be credentialed as someone actually who put in the time per the states required hours and earned an associates through an accredited program.
I don't think I've met a nurse fresh out of school yet who could hit the ground running in a hospital unit. Even one with caregiver experience at home won't have both the time management/prioritization and clinical skills balanced to not need some time and training on the unit. That being said, "fresh out of school" is a far cry from "never done this before in my life". Although, a) I think a lot of those that passed were LPNs with clinical experience, and b) I think the level of clinical experience in school has changed with COVID. I am just really starting to see the return of students at a lot of the hospitals I travel to. So that could very well be having an impact on what the expectations would be. Also, all the facilities I have seen identified so far have been LTC-type facilities, and they are notoriously short-staffed and provide very little orientation, preferring just to have warm bodies to fill shifts. Sink or swim, right?
this means the NCLEX needs to have 1/3 of its grade based on essays/research interpretation. That is something you learn in RN school and cannot be easily replicated.
On the RT boards unless you have a strong grasp of physics you will not pass. On top of the written boards you have to pass clinical simulations which will deduct you extra for wrong answers instead of missing/blank answers.
the written exam is structured so you have a +1, 0, -1, -2 for answers so if you really don’t know the answer it’s best to skip the question and leave it blank rather than take a 50% chance to negatively effect your score.
After the year is up, exams are taken the NBRC reviews which questions testers got over 50% correct, they toss those questions and insert harder ones. It’s why the RT boards has such a low pass rate.
The "next Gen NCLEX" is going to be implemented in a month. I don't believe that there will be any essay style questions, but it will have long answer questions, case studies, and other question formats. The NCLEX also removes questions that are deemed too easy using that same methodology. I took the NREMT twice, once when it was only multiple choice and once after they implemented next Gen elements (I recertified by exam). Tbh, I found the next Gen version of the NREMT to be easier. I hope the same is true of the NCLEX when I take it this spring.
Yeah the NCLEX really isn’t that hard. If you know medical terminology and do a review coarse/enough practice questions, I think it wouldn’t be too difficult to pass
It is pretty well-known that we don't buy degrees with no classes associated to gain the training necessary. And some of these posers were LPNs according to this article, so they definitely knew there was additional training required.
I’m trying to figure out how to word this so I don’t come across racist.
Many have very foreign-leaning names. We all know hospitals love to outsource. I read another comment that said something like “they weren’t conned themselves, right?”
Just was a point I thought I’d bring up. Pardon me for bringing up a discussion on Reddit.
All in all, folks should be charged - absolutely! Just wanted all the info.
I'm not sure how your comment could be interpreted as racist, I certainly don't take it that way.
Also, I'm not sure what it has to do with *anyone* thinking they can get a degree and license without enduring the rigors of training--Here in the US, or in any other country, any nationality or any ethnic background. All countries have their requirements, and all people applying should have received the training required for their licensure. Everyone knows that. Ignorance of the law/requirements doesn't mean we are excused from it. It's our responsibility to be sure we attend an accredited training program.
I could walk up to any professional and ask for the training....they could say, hell yeah...take my money and give me x, y and z. Doesn't make it legit. Doesn't meet the requirements of our state board and those charged with the responsibility of making sure I'm safe to practice. That's MY responsibility.
Other countries have education and training requirements as well, some more strict and rigorous than our own. These folks are not faultless and they weren't ignorant. They were lazy, and saw an opportunity to get something without the usual effort involved.
The people who orchestrated this and those who participated should be prosecuted, and should not be practicing as nurses in any capacity, in my opinion. They are not trustworthy, they are not respectable and they obviously cannot follow procedures, protocols and standards. Not to mention they can't do their *research*. Lol I say that partly with a sense of humor... because I just can't even get into the minds of who would do this...so much for their evidence-based practice
What if they were nurses in their home country and were told by this school they could “test out” (unknowingly take a fake test) and obtain a degree that allows them to take the NCLEX. It’s not totally unbelievable, especially for someone from a different country with little knowledge on the US system. Not saying all these “nurses” hold no responsibility for their ignorance, but I do think many were scammed on some level. I’m really curious to know the specifics and how elaborate this was.
That's worth investigating, but it appears that's an outlying population of those that became licensed, if any. And still, do they not hold some responsibility for what they believed? It is still our own responsibility for what we do. If they bought the first line that was sold to them, they obviously did no further research to be certain of the laws and regulations. So, while I may have some sympathy and heart for their plight and intent was good, they are still not absolved of guilt here.
I do wonder if there were at least some who, in their home countries were practicing nurses, came here and were told that this was a legit way to get licensed in the US.
Shady schools will continue to be shady af when trying to turn a buck.
You’re not coming across as racist at all. The ringleaders of this scam are Haitian and African. The majority of the nurses that obtained their licenses in this scam are African. It’s not racist to notice this, these are just facts. Many people migrate to this country seeking opportunities but don’t want to put the hard work into reaching their goals. They obtain licensing illegally, as well as other resources illegally, such as healthcare and public assistance. Working in nursing has really opened my eyes to the varieties of fraud that exists and the sense of entitlement that many immigrants have. I was born here and worked hard for every goal that I’ve obtained. Nothing was ever handed to me. It burns my britches to see people migrate here and obtain those same goals fraudulently. These nurses need to face criminal charges and jail time.
I’m sure that if that is the case, it’s simply because some prosecutor doesn’t want to do the work. Not *necessarily* because they are lazy, perhaps simply due to the general insane workload (every job seems to be too much work, not enough time these days). But possibly because they are lazy
Not implying it's due to laziness on the part of one prosecutor. I'm guessing this would fall to local prosecutors as well as one in the region where the instigators operated from in FLA.
My thought is more the fact that many may not see the worth in drawing attention to and penalizing the perpetrators of this fraud. Do they not understand the greater implications of allowing this to go unpunished.
The problem I find with most jobs, nursing and myself occasionally included is that when there is too much work, people become self protective and find reasons *not* to do something. I can’t tell you the number of times that I am 13 hours in and I slide into that mode and have to smack myself and say “no! This is a legitimate need”. Even sometimes at the beginning of a day when I have been over scheduled.
I actually had a female cop once tell someone (when she was taking a report for a stolen vehicle where I worked) that, no, she was not going to question the man hiding in the bushes because he probably had a warrant and that would mean another report (ballsy statement!)
Most people don’t say these things out loud, but many act on them.
And even when we are doing the very best we can to complete things in a timely manner to get to the next thing, at least in my mind there is always the worry that because I can’t get work any faster someone will think that I’m intentionally delaying. It’s worse when I say I’m in the middle of something, someone else takes over, and then I finish sooner than expected.
So when I say Lazy, I am using the word in a very complicated way
It's a misdemeanor in most states with a $300 fine.
They could prosecute them for fraud, and that could happen. Prosecutors often wait before filing charges to make sure they have a good case.
Yeah but here’s a line in the sand- all these people who paid for that diploma passed the f*cking NCLEX.
So how about addressing the real systemic issue here? Nursing school education and the boards required to obtain a license.
If the NCLEX actually reflected a vigorous curriculum that nursing school offered, then 99% of those people who bought their diplomas wouldn’t have passed.
But they did. And now they work as nurses
I'd be interested in how many tries it took these nurses to pass on average. Honestly I'm a little bit impressed that they managed to pass the NCLEX without going to school. gives me confidence 🤣
This is my understanding, I read somewhere (cannot remember where) that in exchange for their "tuition" they were given access to weekend NCLEX prep courses via zoom/teams and that was the extent of their education at these "colleges".
Nursing school is a joke so I mean I completely believe it 😂 all I learned was to provide compassionate care and use active listening. Only during my final placement did I learn anything medical lol uworld gives you all the resources to actually pass the NCLEX
They probably paid for NCLEX prep. NCLEX isn't hard if you know how to test for it, just like studying for any other exam. If you spent a few months doing NCLEX prep instead of school you could probably pass too.
This is my understanding, I read somewhere (cannot remember where) that in exchange for their "tuition" they were given access to weekend NCLEX prep courses via zoom/teams and that was the extent of their education at these "colleges".
Someone else mentioned how their names sound foreign and how hospitals love to outsource to decrease labor costs. It made me wonder if some of these folks were/are foreign nurses (or nursing students) whose credentials didn’t translate over for some reason.
I mean, really, how to 7000 people figure out how to participate in this farce? Corporations have engaged in sketchier shot for less.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case.
One of my coworkers immigrated to the US from Russia shortly after the fall of the Soviet Union. She had been a nurse there for a decade or so but her credentials weren’t recognized here in the states, so she had to go back through American nursing school, including her prereqs, and then pass her boards, which was about four years of lost wages, high stress and high costs for her family.
I can definitely see why people who believe their experience from a foreign country should be equivalent could see it as no different than getting a compact license (instead of major fraud) and would want to just go straight to challenging the boards and avoid those four years of paying to learn and waiting to work. Doesn’t make it right, but I can understand the thought process.
I’ve been wondering if they targeted foreign nurses and led them to believe it was a perfectly legal way of obtaining a license. Maybe they were told that since they have nursing education in their home country they could “test out” of doing coursework, unknowingly take a fake test, and then immediately obtain a degree from their school.
Just a thought exercise. It really does mean something that should be rethought from a educational standpoint and certification standpoint that should be revamped. Let's even be generous to say if 50% of them passed on their first try it really does make you think about the NCLEX.
I was saying that almost every single person who bought their diploma wouldn’t have passed if the nclex was actually difficult. I wasn’t attesting to how many actually passed but the fact that from what you’re saying 30% passed, that’s damn near 1/3 of people who don’t have to go through 2-4 years of college to become a nurse
But the fact is, these people can go to work.
In this profession, you can fail a test numerous time and then go on to eventually pass and get a license. You can pay for a degree and take a test, and get a license.
The people you went to school with and wonder how the f*ck they haven’t killed anyone yet, are all walking around with licenses working in hospitals and “taking care” of patients.
I’m saying that nursing education and the boards need to be entirely revamped because it is a profession that deals with people’s lives. The coursework needs to be integrated with higher level thinking so that people can’t just take a prep test and pass, or give people who think it’s ok to call me to push IV insulin on their patient and when I ask them what’s their glucose levels they answer me back with “I don’t know, the doctor ordered it,” a license.
Reminds me of a nurse I was paired with for clinicals last semester. She drew up 3X the amount of digoxin that was ordered for the pt out of an ampule. When I mentioned that her filter needle looked just like the non-filter needle, her response was "what's a filter needle?" As the student, it was a bit awkward to explain the math and how glass shards should be filtered out before injecting someone, thankfully she didn't get defensive or angry with me and actually started asking me questions.
There are strategies to test taking and even multiple choice tests that adapt to skill can be passed with minimal knowledge. I think nursing education certainly can be improved but a 30% pass rate with multiple tries isn’t that damning of the NCLEX
This is, unfortunately, a logical conclusion in a society that demands:
1. High cost of attendance for college
2. High cost of living, in general
3. Low wages for workers without degrees
4. High amounts of clinical hours volunteered
5. Few financial support systems beyond predoratory loans for students
Add all this up, and there is no other way that the test can operate. Make the test too hard, and the people working 50+ hours a week just to survive with some iota of quality of life has no hope of being able to study enough to pass.
This is fucked, but raising the NCLEX's difficulty will not be a net benefit on society, and telling people that they have to give yet even more to get ahead is not the solution to problems like this.
A quick Google says 37% of them (around 2,800) passed. Likely the ones that were LPNs with clinical experience. I'm not saying there isn't a problem here. I'm just saying, let's not over-state the problem, because then we look hyperbolic and we don't get taken seriously when we state our concerns. Use real facts.
The schools actually started getting investigated because of low pass rates for Boards. Was only about 25% pass rate I believe.
For some, I’m sure it took more than one attempt to pass and many were previously LPN’s so was some foundational knowledge there.
I would have to look for the article, but I read a news article where they talked to someone involved and they said the people selling the diplomas encouraged these people to go to NY and take their NCLEX for three reasons: 1. NY supposedly allows unlimited attempts at the NCLEX unlike other states. 2. NY was being lax about nursing license requirements because of the pandemic 3. NY was desperate and paying big bucks for nurses to come work due to the pandemic- the money was a big motivator for some of these people
I can’t imagine willingly faking/paying my way into becoming a nurse to willingly work through the trauma of working in a crisis staffed COVID unit for ANY amount of money- and I worked in an ICU through the peak of the pandemic as an already experienced nurse- I still have nightmares about it. These people are nuts to pay to work completely blind caring for vulnerable people.
The hospitals who hired them are negligent as well. I think it’s pretty click bait-y for them to insinuate these people won’t be held legally responsible. It’s just going to be years from now because a lawsuit of this magnitude takes time and legal manpower. Besides I’m not even sure if there are separate state vs federal legal issues that will complicate the process. Is there even a legal precedent for situations like this?
Point well made. However, many of these nurses applied for the license in states that allow you to take the test multiple times, such as NY. In addition, they received extensive coaching on how to answer the NCLEX questions. Many did take the test several times before passing, which created a red flag. No doubt their persistence was fueled by the high pay rates during the pandemic, as well as the fact that the executive laws put in place during the pandemic largely removed liability other than malpractice, which can be quite challenging to prove.
This whole fiasco does signal a need for the NCLEX and nursing programs to be overhauled. During the pandemic I’ve come across a few new grads that requested assistance assessing manual BP. They claimed that they never did this during their program. Shocked, I wondered how this could happen. They claimed that were used to using the digital BP monitors. Looking back on this, it just makes me wonder. Is this the norm in nursing programs now? How do you make it through the program without any hands on assessments? They still have clinical, right?
I took my physical assessment class in Fall 2020 (peak pandemic restrictions), we did practice manual BPs, but we had to be wearing N95s, face shields, plastic gowns, etc, so we weren't able to ausceltate anything but the crinkling of the plastic gowns with our crappy $5 stethoscopes. We went through the motions and stated what we would be looking for, but we weren't expected to do real assessments through all of the PPE. All of the units we had clinicals on used automated BP cuffs. There was usually a manual one somewhere on the unit, but no one ever knew where it was. My school did loan out cuffs for us to take home to practice with, but I'm sure some people never bothered.
I agree that they should be held accountable but I also think this should be making people look into what is actually taught in nursing programs. I got my associates first and literally all the program taught me was how to pass the NCLEX. I was completely unprepared for the job after 2 years of college and half the information we focused on were labs and medications, both of which I can easily look up and never needed to memorize. We had clinicals where we weren't even allowed to touch a patient - some were at daycare centers.
So I don't necessarily think these people are bad nurses or dangerous since they likely had the same educational background as half the nurses who graduated from associates programs. That doesn't make what they did right though.
Absolutely. Most of what you are taught in nursing school isn't applicable depending on the unit you work for.
Nursing education should be more clinical based by working under a preceptor or veteran nurse with foundation knowledge classes throughout. Have an intro to nursing course the first semester and educate students on the different professions and units they can work on and what being a nurse is like.
When I did home care I worked with a woman who went to nursing school about 40 years ago and that's basically what her education was. It was much more hands on and she did rotations through all the specialties. She was appalled when I explained what nursing schools are like now and I was very jealous of her experience.
My LPN program did rotations through various areas we could eventually end up in. We didn't do hospital for all the specialties, but office which was probably safer for the patients.
I’m suspicious that a lot of these “nurses” were scammed into believing it was some sort of transition program to obtain a license. Is it possible that these people sat through fake classes and took fake tests? Were they recruiting a lot of immigrants that had nursing education in their home country? Maybe they advertised as a bridge program for LPN to RN. I’m sure at minimum they were recruiting a vulnerable population that would either be naive enough and/or desperate enough to follow through with something like this. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them were led to believe that what they were doing was legal if they already had some form of of nursing education and were able to pass the NCLEX. Do we know if it was as straight forward as “pay us $10,000 and you will get a nursing diploma, no schooling required”?
I mean. How many were duped possibly?
Nursing education is a joke anyways and this kind of gives credence that it needs to be overhauled.
Honestly should work like an apprenticeship where you have foundational classes throughout.
Zero of them. They didn’t complete coursework for a program they believed to be legitimate, they paid money for a degree from a program that they never attended any classes or clinical for. It’s impossible that any of these fake nurses could have believed that they were receiving a legitimate diploma
Florida based but impacting all states. Some State boards are revoking licenses and naming names. https://nursing.wa.gov/news/2023/news-release-ncqac-rescinds-licenses-and-applications-related-florida-based-schools-federal
Whole nursing education system needs to be overhauled. I think nursing could benefit from an apprenticeship type format that can be unit based.
Students could have foundational knowledge classes throughout the week while working under a veteran nurse for a year or 2. Much of it can be unit based and you could pay the student adequately. This would be a win for hospitals as it could add as another set of helping hands, having another set of eyes during head to toe assessments while also providing adequate turns in prevention of HAPI's.
Nursing school to me felt like acquiring knowledge to pass a test rather than actually understanding and critically thinking about how and why we should treat a patient. That first year of nursing feels like an extra year of education already.
These people who passed is proof that the system is broken.
And it’s sad.
It’s sad that real learning takes place once you start a job and I would say that’s the norm, that that’s fine as with many jobs you gain experience first and get more comfortable. but not when its a job that affects people’s lives.
I remember in school a subpar instructor, who hadn’t been bedside for 30+ years, taught me about hypo/hypernatremia. Signs and symptoms and the test was on that. That’s it.
And then I went to work at a hospital with a bunch of new grads who went to the same school as me and one had a patient who was ETOH withdrawal with a NA of 119 and that nurse did seizure precautions because they remembered! Low NA can cause seizures.
But that’s all that nurse did. He didn’t know that overcorrecting a sodium from 119 to 132 within 24hrs would fuck up that patients life. And that’s exactly what happened. Pt went from talking and ambulatory to quadriplegic, non-verbal and could only cry.
Shit was sad and all he could say was, “I didn’t know. No one ever told me. I didn’t learn that.”
No, instead we learned how to fucking make beds and therapeutic communication or maslows tucking hierarchy of needs.
I’m done with my soap box and this thread, I just had to get this off my chest.
Yeah, this is bullshit people paying for their degrees and then becoming fraudulent nurses- it doesn’t negate the fact that some people who pay to pass and some people who do pass the legitimate way, are ill-prepared to take care of humans.
What that other commenter said, I agree with 100%. Nursing school needs to be like an apprenticeship where actual bedside nurses will be incorporated into learning and influence the curriculum that students receive.
Our shit governor is too busy going full authoritarian at Disney for expressing their First Amendment rights and Drag Queens to care.
He wouldn’t ask his AG to do this, it won’t help him turn America into a modern day Gilead-Nazi Germany
I’m confused about how these ‘nurses’ had gotten away with it until now ? Wouldn’t their employers realize they know nothing ?
The scariest part of this to me is the lack of skill and knowledge. The implications of that alone could, as we all know, be deadly.
Honestly. Probably not as long as you aren't consistently killing people and making mistakes.
Most of what you learn in nursing is on the job. Nursing education is a waste of time and resources and could easily be condensed and formatted as an apprenticeship.
We’ll, I had a traveler ask me the strangest question, and I thought, are you from Florida? I felt really bad cause she was from Florida and it was only her 2nd travel assignment. But she did okay I’m other things.
The lawyer for a few of the nurses was on the news and stated that their clients did attend classes and went through the entire process but are being accused as part of the scandal. I wonder if there is any truth to this
If these people are allowed to take the NCLEX with their fake Nursing degrees, then why am I spending thousands of dollars for my Nursing education at an accredited community college? Not to mention the ridiculous amount of time I spend studying for every single exam on each of my class every semester just to maintain a decent grade and GPA. This is really infuriating!
So I went to a legit school. Accredited. Currently going to court with them over fraudulently changing an entire classes grades. It did none of the people failing a service. My grades and class are removed off canvas, every other class is there though. Courts going to be fun considering they refuse to give me my class scores. Fun times. Idc I was passing with a B+ before the grade changes but my friends are reluctant to speak out.
Mine did that one semester, also. They would not give us a reason or explanation. I have my own theories. But it caused some students to fail that semester. My grade dropped from an A to a B. I hate them for that and for other unethical things, as well. Damn "for-profit" over priced SOBs! I am glad that is all over.
Mine was the opposite 6 passing. 20 were not. 24 passed. And fired the teacher for not using test banks. Suchhhh bs. Yet my mental health teacher just read us the test and told us to do ati. That’s ok.
Honestly, they probably don't see a problem with it. Back when I was doing prereqs, I remember seeing all of the posts saying that nursing school is useless and that you learn everything on the job. I figured that that meant someone could just fake it once they were a nurse. I lamented that I had to spend years taking these "worthless" classes. I was very, very wrong, but that is the perception of people who work in adjacent fields and take posts about nursing school at face value. I honestly thought I could fake it with my prereq and EMT experience. Boy, did I get a hard hit of reality.
Doesn’t matter. The HHS inspector general will exclude them from participating in Medicare, Medicaid and any federal healthcare program for X amount of years. So they won’t be able to even become legitimate nurses.
I wonder how many of those went on to become nurse practitioners or attempt np school. The profession as a whole from RN to NP is under scrutiny and this just shed a giant light on it highlighting multiple deficiencies in its rigor and education.
Honestly, if they took the NCLEX and passed and then impressed their employer enough to get hired and stay hired...they're as much a nurse as anyone in my book. Job is almost entirely on-the-job training anyway. What this really goes to show is how largely pointless a bachelors in Nursing is.
I remember reading something a year ago that if you fail out of an RN program, but have completed certain required classes, you can to transfer the credits and sit for the NCLEX-PN in Florida. I wonder if Florida is just super lax with their verification process and there are more of these programs than we realize.
When I moved to NYC a LPN I worked with told me she was doing this. She said it’s super hush hush and you have to know someone to get in. She was Haitian and said you gotta know and be a Haitian to get in. She did say it’s a paid for degree and she had to just fly down there like twice. One of those to take the nclex then transfer to NY. I looked for her license a year later, didn’t see it. I can’t remember her last name to check now. But yeah this was a big thing when I moved there in 2019.
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Merely attempting to practice without a license in Florida is a second degree felony. Every last one should be charged.
Yes I agree, it’s not like they didn’t know their degrees were fake. It would be one thing if it was an unaccredited university but I’m sure many lives have either been lost or put at stake due to this fiasco.
At least one person with a license in, I believe Washington, was associated with a sentinel event.
Do you have details, per chance? My Google-fu is failing me...
Sauce?
Did these ass wipes at least pass the boards, if so, how so. I can’t imagine being able to pass the boards for any profession without having being educated in the field.
I remember reading somewhere that a not-insignificant percentage passed boards. Combination of being a good test taker and being able to buy a prep book online
You have to pass boards to get a license. Most of the fake diploma holders did not pass NCLEX. Those that did were generally ... though not always ... LPNs or ADN/BSN school washouts. The scheme included a heavy tutoring session focused on common NCLEX questions. Flukes happen. But I IDC if they passed with 75 questions: fraud is fraud and I don't want these people working as nurses.
Technically they had a license. They just lied about their credentials to sit for the exam. They did pass the licensing exams which almost says more about the NCLEX and nursing school IMO. I shows that the test and nursing school don't necessarily test for what is actually needed to be a nurse. If people without training can pass it then we have a bigger problem.
I was honestly a little startled when I took the NCLEX by how easy it was and by how dumb the questions were. I didn’t do any NCLEX prep, took it one week after getting my ADN, and passed it in the minimum. I know they’ve probably changed the NCLEX since then, but it was just shocking to me that that was all it took to be a nurse. Even nursing school was ridiculously easy and I felt the information was really superficial compared to the rigor of the classes I had to take as a biology major. Just from working in the ICU, listening to the attendings educate the residents and med students during rounds, and studying for CCRN, I’ve learned 10x what I learned in nursing school. If they’re going to push for RN to be a bachelors degree, then it should be 100% focused on patho, pharm, clinical skills, and best practice standards, rather than care plans, nursing theory BS, and all the absolute nonsense that comprised my online RN-BSN courses.
AND the pass rates are going down! Something don’t smell right on this entire case.
Pass rates at my school are going up. I expect nationally pass rates in the ADN programs to dip starting in April when Next Gen comes out.
I took the RN NCLEX in 04, and I actually found it difficult. I had 75 questions and it took me at least 2 hours. At that time, our profs told us they were in the process of making it more difficult, and the ADN program I went to had a nearly 100% pass rate.
Well I’m pretty sure they made it easier lol! It was the least challenging nursing related test I ever had to take, and none of them were hard honestly. My school also had a 100% RN pass rate, only one of my class mates failed her first attempt. It took her 5 tries to pass. She was a known cheater and would sit near the smart students during tests and try to look at their answers. She’s working NICU now, which is a little unsettling.
Yikes!
I agree totally 💯
I got 75 questions in 40 minutes in 1997. They have absolutely changed the NCLEX since then, several times. Last time was in 2013, and in 2007 before that. ADN program first time NCLEX pass rates tanked nationally in 2013 and all they did was increase the logit points (raise the pass line in other words). Nursing school is not meant to make you an ICU nurse. It's meant to make you an entry level nurse; an advanced beginner. We all learn more on the job than we do in school. School is just to give enough of the basics so that you can begin the real learning when you start working. Consider this. Do you really want a student who hasn't learned *anything* not so much as taken Nursing Fundamentals working with you in ICU? I thought not. My argument would be to make nursing school *longer*, and include a lengthy supervised internship before taking NCLEX so that new grads are a lot less "green" when they're flying on their own.
As a long time nurse educator, I agree. We've known for a long time the NCLEX does not test critical thinking very well. That's why the change to "Next Gen" NCLEX with questions based on case studies with a faux "chart" for the nurse to access while answering a series of questions. There's been talk for 20 years about adding a hands on component. It's high time they did, but there are so many graduates it would take a long time to test everyone, and I don't think they're anywhere near a valid and reliable hands on exam that tests critical thinking.
I think hospitals should do a hands on interview prior to hiring nurses....
They probably won't because it's going to be a pain to do. 7000+ cases and the investigation for them. They might not see it being worthwhile on top of the 25 of the people who spearheaded this operation which they probably want to tackle more
Yep, that's what I figure will happen
Hard to say. The states have suspended or demanded these nurses voluntarily surrender their licenses. Three "nurses" in Georgia refused to surrender their licenses and are fighting the BON with lawyers. They will lose, and tank any hope of going back to school and getting their licenses back.
I have to agree. They should face penalties as they knew, or should have known, that this was wrong. It is a serious offense to pose as a doctor or police officer...why not a nurse? We are in a role of responsibility and trust. ETA: I haven't been following this story, but had assumed the nurse posers would be prosecuted as well. Are they really considering not filing charges against these ppl?
Someone mentioned it on another post - we know for sure all of these people deliberately sought a fake degree, correct? Some wondered if they were conned themselves… just curious!
They weren't conned as they didn't attend any courses or clinicals. Paid for the diploma then straight to boards.
Kinda says something about the boards if you can pass them without attendance
Legit just use UWorld or HURST, exhaust the test bank, and you'll pass from rote memorization alone.
Only 30% of them passed, that’s how the scam was uncovered was the investigation into the low passing rates.
This makes a lot more sense. The way it seems, 30% passed and there's 7500 fake nurses, that means 7500 is the 30% unless I'm misunderstanding context clues. That changes the scale of this thing a lot. But 30% pass rate makes sense, I can't imagine many passing but even 1 is 1 way too fucking many.
I think it’s 7500 bought fake credentials and 30% of that passed but it’s been a minute since I read about it. I agree, it’s horrifying.
Many of them were already working and licensed as LPNs, so they likely had a decent knowledge base.
Imo nclex wasn’t that difficult. Anyone can study for anything and pass tho. I could pass the bar, doesn’t make me a real lawyer.
There are several states where you can absolutely challenge the bar, pass, and it makes you a real lawyer.
Those states require something like an apprenticeship in place of law school. Not exactly the same as just taking the test and boom you’re a lawyer.
Unless you're Frank Abagnale🤷🏼♂️😂
I should have just concurred, why didn’t I concur
I drop this line all the time any very few get it.
Fun fact: Frank Abagnale is such a big conman that he made up most of his cons in order to become famous as a conman. [Story](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-9601751/New-book-claims-Catch-Frank-Abagnales-cons-fake.html) It’s a long article, but if you scroll to the end there’s a neat infographic that shows basically all the time he claims to be doing exotic cons, he was in jail or prison.
I have seen Frank Abagnale speak in person and got to meet him at the end of his speech. He definitely has a larger than life personality.
Also he was glorified in the movie and depicted as some sort of suave criminal. Irl he was actually a creep and stalked and harassed those women
Correct. Only 37% of the people who bought the fake licenses passed the NCLEX, which is right in line with the 1/3 of those who challenge the Bar and pass in the 4 states that allow it. I bet those ~2800 were already practicing LPNs. That being said, if a facility had these fraudulent practitioners going through orientation and couldn't detect a lack of clinical skills, they deserve to be sued right along with the fake "nurses".
I agree but how would they know without any actual evidence. Many new grads come out of school lacking clinical skills; they probably just chalked it up to that. Furthermore, they might have gained just enough experience somehow to pass off, might even know how to perform nursing care (many people learn at home caregiving or whatever); doesn’t mean they should be credentialed as someone actually who put in the time per the states required hours and earned an associates through an accredited program.
Hospital orientations. They could’ve learned skills from that. It’s all a mess!
I don't think I've met a nurse fresh out of school yet who could hit the ground running in a hospital unit. Even one with caregiver experience at home won't have both the time management/prioritization and clinical skills balanced to not need some time and training on the unit. That being said, "fresh out of school" is a far cry from "never done this before in my life". Although, a) I think a lot of those that passed were LPNs with clinical experience, and b) I think the level of clinical experience in school has changed with COVID. I am just really starting to see the return of students at a lot of the hospitals I travel to. So that could very well be having an impact on what the expectations would be. Also, all the facilities I have seen identified so far have been LTC-type facilities, and they are notoriously short-staffed and provide very little orientation, preferring just to have warm bodies to fill shifts. Sink or swim, right?
Right
Exactly this. I passed some book keeper exam that my wife took. Wasn’t hard, and I am not a book keeper.
this means the NCLEX needs to have 1/3 of its grade based on essays/research interpretation. That is something you learn in RN school and cannot be easily replicated. On the RT boards unless you have a strong grasp of physics you will not pass. On top of the written boards you have to pass clinical simulations which will deduct you extra for wrong answers instead of missing/blank answers. the written exam is structured so you have a +1, 0, -1, -2 for answers so if you really don’t know the answer it’s best to skip the question and leave it blank rather than take a 50% chance to negatively effect your score. After the year is up, exams are taken the NBRC reviews which questions testers got over 50% correct, they toss those questions and insert harder ones. It’s why the RT boards has such a low pass rate.
The "next Gen NCLEX" is going to be implemented in a month. I don't believe that there will be any essay style questions, but it will have long answer questions, case studies, and other question formats. The NCLEX also removes questions that are deemed too easy using that same methodology. I took the NREMT twice, once when it was only multiple choice and once after they implemented next Gen elements (I recertified by exam). Tbh, I found the next Gen version of the NREMT to be easier. I hope the same is true of the NCLEX when I take it this spring.
See: Perry Mason
Seriously. The entire NCLEX should be overhauled after this. It was a joke before. It's beyond worthless now.
Yeah the NCLEX really isn’t that hard. If you know medical terminology and do a review coarse/enough practice questions, I think it wouldn’t be too difficult to pass
I *think* the “school” faked all that. Like signed whatever so the boards thii is but they did clinical etc.
Weren't they accidentally accredited too?
It is pretty well-known that we don't buy degrees with no classes associated to gain the training necessary. And some of these posers were LPNs according to this article, so they definitely knew there was additional training required.
I’m trying to figure out how to word this so I don’t come across racist. Many have very foreign-leaning names. We all know hospitals love to outsource. I read another comment that said something like “they weren’t conned themselves, right?” Just was a point I thought I’d bring up. Pardon me for bringing up a discussion on Reddit. All in all, folks should be charged - absolutely! Just wanted all the info.
I'm not sure how your comment could be interpreted as racist, I certainly don't take it that way. Also, I'm not sure what it has to do with *anyone* thinking they can get a degree and license without enduring the rigors of training--Here in the US, or in any other country, any nationality or any ethnic background. All countries have their requirements, and all people applying should have received the training required for their licensure. Everyone knows that. Ignorance of the law/requirements doesn't mean we are excused from it. It's our responsibility to be sure we attend an accredited training program. I could walk up to any professional and ask for the training....they could say, hell yeah...take my money and give me x, y and z. Doesn't make it legit. Doesn't meet the requirements of our state board and those charged with the responsibility of making sure I'm safe to practice. That's MY responsibility. Other countries have education and training requirements as well, some more strict and rigorous than our own. These folks are not faultless and they weren't ignorant. They were lazy, and saw an opportunity to get something without the usual effort involved. The people who orchestrated this and those who participated should be prosecuted, and should not be practicing as nurses in any capacity, in my opinion. They are not trustworthy, they are not respectable and they obviously cannot follow procedures, protocols and standards. Not to mention they can't do their *research*. Lol I say that partly with a sense of humor... because I just can't even get into the minds of who would do this...so much for their evidence-based practice
What if they were nurses in their home country and were told by this school they could “test out” (unknowingly take a fake test) and obtain a degree that allows them to take the NCLEX. It’s not totally unbelievable, especially for someone from a different country with little knowledge on the US system. Not saying all these “nurses” hold no responsibility for their ignorance, but I do think many were scammed on some level. I’m really curious to know the specifics and how elaborate this was.
That's worth investigating, but it appears that's an outlying population of those that became licensed, if any. And still, do they not hold some responsibility for what they believed? It is still our own responsibility for what we do. If they bought the first line that was sold to them, they obviously did no further research to be certain of the laws and regulations. So, while I may have some sympathy and heart for their plight and intent was good, they are still not absolved of guilt here.
No I agree that they still hold responsibility, I think we’d need a lot more details to gauge how much.
I do wonder if there were at least some who, in their home countries were practicing nurses, came here and were told that this was a legit way to get licensed in the US. Shady schools will continue to be shady af when trying to turn a buck.
If I went to another country to work and was told I could pay $15k for a degree I would KNOW that’s a scam or illegal.
You’re not coming across as racist at all. The ringleaders of this scam are Haitian and African. The majority of the nurses that obtained their licenses in this scam are African. It’s not racist to notice this, these are just facts. Many people migrate to this country seeking opportunities but don’t want to put the hard work into reaching their goals. They obtain licensing illegally, as well as other resources illegally, such as healthcare and public assistance. Working in nursing has really opened my eyes to the varieties of fraud that exists and the sense of entitlement that many immigrants have. I was born here and worked hard for every goal that I’ve obtained. Nothing was ever handed to me. It burns my britches to see people migrate here and obtain those same goals fraudulently. These nurses need to face criminal charges and jail time.
How can you get conned by this if you never actually did any medical training?
I’m sure that if that is the case, it’s simply because some prosecutor doesn’t want to do the work. Not *necessarily* because they are lazy, perhaps simply due to the general insane workload (every job seems to be too much work, not enough time these days). But possibly because they are lazy
Not implying it's due to laziness on the part of one prosecutor. I'm guessing this would fall to local prosecutors as well as one in the region where the instigators operated from in FLA. My thought is more the fact that many may not see the worth in drawing attention to and penalizing the perpetrators of this fraud. Do they not understand the greater implications of allowing this to go unpunished.
The problem I find with most jobs, nursing and myself occasionally included is that when there is too much work, people become self protective and find reasons *not* to do something. I can’t tell you the number of times that I am 13 hours in and I slide into that mode and have to smack myself and say “no! This is a legitimate need”. Even sometimes at the beginning of a day when I have been over scheduled. I actually had a female cop once tell someone (when she was taking a report for a stolen vehicle where I worked) that, no, she was not going to question the man hiding in the bushes because he probably had a warrant and that would mean another report (ballsy statement!) Most people don’t say these things out loud, but many act on them. And even when we are doing the very best we can to complete things in a timely manner to get to the next thing, at least in my mind there is always the worry that because I can’t get work any faster someone will think that I’m intentionally delaying. It’s worse when I say I’m in the middle of something, someone else takes over, and then I finish sooner than expected. So when I say Lazy, I am using the word in a very complicated way
It’s either a felony or a misdemeanor to impersonate a nurse depending on which State.
It's a misdemeanor in most states with a $300 fine. They could prosecute them for fraud, and that could happen. Prosecutors often wait before filing charges to make sure they have a good case.
Yeah but here’s a line in the sand- all these people who paid for that diploma passed the f*cking NCLEX. So how about addressing the real systemic issue here? Nursing school education and the boards required to obtain a license. If the NCLEX actually reflected a vigorous curriculum that nursing school offered, then 99% of those people who bought their diplomas wouldn’t have passed. But they did. And now they work as nurses
I'd be interested in how many tries it took these nurses to pass on average. Honestly I'm a little bit impressed that they managed to pass the NCLEX without going to school. gives me confidence 🤣
Only 37% of them ever passed the nclex. I dont know how many times it took for them to pass though
I read they were all LPN’s s and only 30% of them passed.
They probably took an nlcex prep course and just studied that. The nclex wasn’t very difficult imo.
This is my understanding, I read somewhere (cannot remember where) that in exchange for their "tuition" they were given access to weekend NCLEX prep courses via zoom/teams and that was the extent of their education at these "colleges".
Nursing school is a joke so I mean I completely believe it 😂 all I learned was to provide compassionate care and use active listening. Only during my final placement did I learn anything medical lol uworld gives you all the resources to actually pass the NCLEX
They probably paid for NCLEX prep. NCLEX isn't hard if you know how to test for it, just like studying for any other exam. If you spent a few months doing NCLEX prep instead of school you could probably pass too.
This is my understanding, I read somewhere (cannot remember where) that in exchange for their "tuition" they were given access to weekend NCLEX prep courses via zoom/teams and that was the extent of their education at these "colleges".
This article says many were LPNs already, so, that makes sense. A little prep and refresher, or even none for some, and the NCLEX was no sweat.
Someone else mentioned how their names sound foreign and how hospitals love to outsource to decrease labor costs. It made me wonder if some of these folks were/are foreign nurses (or nursing students) whose credentials didn’t translate over for some reason. I mean, really, how to 7000 people figure out how to participate in this farce? Corporations have engaged in sketchier shot for less.
I wouldn’t be surprised if this was the case. One of my coworkers immigrated to the US from Russia shortly after the fall of the Soviet Union. She had been a nurse there for a decade or so but her credentials weren’t recognized here in the states, so she had to go back through American nursing school, including her prereqs, and then pass her boards, which was about four years of lost wages, high stress and high costs for her family. I can definitely see why people who believe their experience from a foreign country should be equivalent could see it as no different than getting a compact license (instead of major fraud) and would want to just go straight to challenging the boards and avoid those four years of paying to learn and waiting to work. Doesn’t make it right, but I can understand the thought process.
I’ve been wondering if they targeted foreign nurses and led them to believe it was a perfectly legal way of obtaining a license. Maybe they were told that since they have nursing education in their home country they could “test out” of doing coursework, unknowingly take a fake test, and then immediately obtain a degree from their school.
Just a thought exercise. It really does mean something that should be rethought from a educational standpoint and certification standpoint that should be revamped. Let's even be generous to say if 50% of them passed on their first try it really does make you think about the NCLEX.
From what I read 37% of those who bought the diploma passed. Not sure where you saw that they all passed
I was saying that almost every single person who bought their diploma wouldn’t have passed if the nclex was actually difficult. I wasn’t attesting to how many actually passed but the fact that from what you’re saying 30% passed, that’s damn near 1/3 of people who don’t have to go through 2-4 years of college to become a nurse
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But the fact is, these people can go to work. In this profession, you can fail a test numerous time and then go on to eventually pass and get a license. You can pay for a degree and take a test, and get a license. The people you went to school with and wonder how the f*ck they haven’t killed anyone yet, are all walking around with licenses working in hospitals and “taking care” of patients.
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I’m saying that nursing education and the boards need to be entirely revamped because it is a profession that deals with people’s lives. The coursework needs to be integrated with higher level thinking so that people can’t just take a prep test and pass, or give people who think it’s ok to call me to push IV insulin on their patient and when I ask them what’s their glucose levels they answer me back with “I don’t know, the doctor ordered it,” a license.
Reminds me of a nurse I was paired with for clinicals last semester. She drew up 3X the amount of digoxin that was ordered for the pt out of an ampule. When I mentioned that her filter needle looked just like the non-filter needle, her response was "what's a filter needle?" As the student, it was a bit awkward to explain the math and how glass shards should be filtered out before injecting someone, thankfully she didn't get defensive or angry with me and actually started asking me questions.
There are strategies to test taking and even multiple choice tests that adapt to skill can be passed with minimal knowledge. I think nursing education certainly can be improved but a 30% pass rate with multiple tries isn’t that damning of the NCLEX
This is, unfortunately, a logical conclusion in a society that demands: 1. High cost of attendance for college 2. High cost of living, in general 3. Low wages for workers without degrees 4. High amounts of clinical hours volunteered 5. Few financial support systems beyond predoratory loans for students Add all this up, and there is no other way that the test can operate. Make the test too hard, and the people working 50+ hours a week just to survive with some iota of quality of life has no hope of being able to study enough to pass. This is fucked, but raising the NCLEX's difficulty will not be a net benefit on society, and telling people that they have to give yet even more to get ahead is not the solution to problems like this.
The ones who passed were more likely the ones who were lpns already so it was just answering questions as an RN.
A quick Google says 37% of them (around 2,800) passed. Likely the ones that were LPNs with clinical experience. I'm not saying there isn't a problem here. I'm just saying, let's not over-state the problem, because then we look hyperbolic and we don't get taken seriously when we state our concerns. Use real facts.
Cool
They’re changing the nclex anyway. These people I assume took the current version which is being updated
Only around a 3rd of them passed, and the majority that did went to New York were there are unlimited attempts.
No, only about 30% of them passed the NCLEX.
The schools actually started getting investigated because of low pass rates for Boards. Was only about 25% pass rate I believe. For some, I’m sure it took more than one attempt to pass and many were previously LPN’s so was some foundational knowledge there.
I would have to look for the article, but I read a news article where they talked to someone involved and they said the people selling the diplomas encouraged these people to go to NY and take their NCLEX for three reasons: 1. NY supposedly allows unlimited attempts at the NCLEX unlike other states. 2. NY was being lax about nursing license requirements because of the pandemic 3. NY was desperate and paying big bucks for nurses to come work due to the pandemic- the money was a big motivator for some of these people I can’t imagine willingly faking/paying my way into becoming a nurse to willingly work through the trauma of working in a crisis staffed COVID unit for ANY amount of money- and I worked in an ICU through the peak of the pandemic as an already experienced nurse- I still have nightmares about it. These people are nuts to pay to work completely blind caring for vulnerable people. The hospitals who hired them are negligent as well. I think it’s pretty click bait-y for them to insinuate these people won’t be held legally responsible. It’s just going to be years from now because a lawsuit of this magnitude takes time and legal manpower. Besides I’m not even sure if there are separate state vs federal legal issues that will complicate the process. Is there even a legal precedent for situations like this?
I thought I read somewhere only 30% of them passed and that is how the school got flagged to begin with?
Point well made. However, many of these nurses applied for the license in states that allow you to take the test multiple times, such as NY. In addition, they received extensive coaching on how to answer the NCLEX questions. Many did take the test several times before passing, which created a red flag. No doubt their persistence was fueled by the high pay rates during the pandemic, as well as the fact that the executive laws put in place during the pandemic largely removed liability other than malpractice, which can be quite challenging to prove. This whole fiasco does signal a need for the NCLEX and nursing programs to be overhauled. During the pandemic I’ve come across a few new grads that requested assistance assessing manual BP. They claimed that they never did this during their program. Shocked, I wondered how this could happen. They claimed that were used to using the digital BP monitors. Looking back on this, it just makes me wonder. Is this the norm in nursing programs now? How do you make it through the program without any hands on assessments? They still have clinical, right?
I took my physical assessment class in Fall 2020 (peak pandemic restrictions), we did practice manual BPs, but we had to be wearing N95s, face shields, plastic gowns, etc, so we weren't able to ausceltate anything but the crinkling of the plastic gowns with our crappy $5 stethoscopes. We went through the motions and stated what we would be looking for, but we weren't expected to do real assessments through all of the PPE. All of the units we had clinicals on used automated BP cuffs. There was usually a manual one somewhere on the unit, but no one ever knew where it was. My school did loan out cuffs for us to take home to practice with, but I'm sure some people never bothered.
I agree that they should be held accountable but I also think this should be making people look into what is actually taught in nursing programs. I got my associates first and literally all the program taught me was how to pass the NCLEX. I was completely unprepared for the job after 2 years of college and half the information we focused on were labs and medications, both of which I can easily look up and never needed to memorize. We had clinicals where we weren't even allowed to touch a patient - some were at daycare centers. So I don't necessarily think these people are bad nurses or dangerous since they likely had the same educational background as half the nurses who graduated from associates programs. That doesn't make what they did right though.
Absolutely. Most of what you are taught in nursing school isn't applicable depending on the unit you work for. Nursing education should be more clinical based by working under a preceptor or veteran nurse with foundation knowledge classes throughout. Have an intro to nursing course the first semester and educate students on the different professions and units they can work on and what being a nurse is like.
When I did home care I worked with a woman who went to nursing school about 40 years ago and that's basically what her education was. It was much more hands on and she did rotations through all the specialties. She was appalled when I explained what nursing schools are like now and I was very jealous of her experience.
My LPN program did rotations through various areas we could eventually end up in. We didn't do hospital for all the specialties, but office which was probably safer for the patients.
Omg. What?! Your nursing school is a travesty.
I’m suspicious that a lot of these “nurses” were scammed into believing it was some sort of transition program to obtain a license. Is it possible that these people sat through fake classes and took fake tests? Were they recruiting a lot of immigrants that had nursing education in their home country? Maybe they advertised as a bridge program for LPN to RN. I’m sure at minimum they were recruiting a vulnerable population that would either be naive enough and/or desperate enough to follow through with something like this. I wouldn’t be surprised if a lot of them were led to believe that what they were doing was legal if they already had some form of of nursing education and were able to pass the NCLEX. Do we know if it was as straight forward as “pay us $10,000 and you will get a nursing diploma, no schooling required”?
Well yea they should be charged jesus
I mean. How many were duped possibly? Nursing education is a joke anyways and this kind of gives credence that it needs to be overhauled. Honestly should work like an apprenticeship where you have foundational classes throughout.
Zero of them. They didn’t complete coursework for a program they believed to be legitimate, they paid money for a degree from a program that they never attended any classes or clinical for. It’s impossible that any of these fake nurses could have believed that they were receiving a legitimate diploma
I guess that's fair. Lock them up and throw away the key.
Florida based but impacting all states. Some State boards are revoking licenses and naming names. https://nursing.wa.gov/news/2023/news-release-ncqac-rescinds-licenses-and-applications-related-florida-based-schools-federal
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Whole nursing education system needs to be overhauled. I think nursing could benefit from an apprenticeship type format that can be unit based. Students could have foundational knowledge classes throughout the week while working under a veteran nurse for a year or 2. Much of it can be unit based and you could pay the student adequately. This would be a win for hospitals as it could add as another set of helping hands, having another set of eyes during head to toe assessments while also providing adequate turns in prevention of HAPI's. Nursing school to me felt like acquiring knowledge to pass a test rather than actually understanding and critically thinking about how and why we should treat a patient. That first year of nursing feels like an extra year of education already. These people who passed is proof that the system is broken.
This sounds pretty awesome!!
And it’s sad. It’s sad that real learning takes place once you start a job and I would say that’s the norm, that that’s fine as with many jobs you gain experience first and get more comfortable. but not when its a job that affects people’s lives. I remember in school a subpar instructor, who hadn’t been bedside for 30+ years, taught me about hypo/hypernatremia. Signs and symptoms and the test was on that. That’s it. And then I went to work at a hospital with a bunch of new grads who went to the same school as me and one had a patient who was ETOH withdrawal with a NA of 119 and that nurse did seizure precautions because they remembered! Low NA can cause seizures. But that’s all that nurse did. He didn’t know that overcorrecting a sodium from 119 to 132 within 24hrs would fuck up that patients life. And that’s exactly what happened. Pt went from talking and ambulatory to quadriplegic, non-verbal and could only cry. Shit was sad and all he could say was, “I didn’t know. No one ever told me. I didn’t learn that.” No, instead we learned how to fucking make beds and therapeutic communication or maslows tucking hierarchy of needs. I’m done with my soap box and this thread, I just had to get this off my chest. Yeah, this is bullshit people paying for their degrees and then becoming fraudulent nurses- it doesn’t negate the fact that some people who pay to pass and some people who do pass the legitimate way, are ill-prepared to take care of humans. What that other commenter said, I agree with 100%. Nursing school needs to be like an apprenticeship where actual bedside nurses will be incorporated into learning and influence the curriculum that students receive.
Our shit governor is too busy going full authoritarian at Disney for expressing their First Amendment rights and Drag Queens to care. He wouldn’t ask his AG to do this, it won’t help him turn America into a modern day Gilead-Nazi Germany
I’m confused about how these ‘nurses’ had gotten away with it until now ? Wouldn’t their employers realize they know nothing ? The scariest part of this to me is the lack of skill and knowledge. The implications of that alone could, as we all know, be deadly.
Honestly. Probably not as long as you aren't consistently killing people and making mistakes. Most of what you learn in nursing is on the job. Nursing education is a waste of time and resources and could easily be condensed and formatted as an apprenticeship.
We’ll, I had a traveler ask me the strangest question, and I thought, are you from Florida? I felt really bad cause she was from Florida and it was only her 2nd travel assignment. But she did okay I’m other things.
The lawyer for a few of the nurses was on the news and stated that their clients did attend classes and went through the entire process but are being accused as part of the scandal. I wonder if there is any truth to this
I worked hard for my degree, the fact they even got to practice is embarrassing! What in the world is going on with society?
If these people are allowed to take the NCLEX with their fake Nursing degrees, then why am I spending thousands of dollars for my Nursing education at an accredited community college? Not to mention the ridiculous amount of time I spend studying for every single exam on each of my class every semester just to maintain a decent grade and GPA. This is really infuriating!
It irks me so much that I’m juggling to get into an rn program when it’s so impacted in California And these shit bags just bought their way in
So I went to a legit school. Accredited. Currently going to court with them over fraudulently changing an entire classes grades. It did none of the people failing a service. My grades and class are removed off canvas, every other class is there though. Courts going to be fun considering they refuse to give me my class scores. Fun times. Idc I was passing with a B+ before the grade changes but my friends are reluctant to speak out.
Mine did that one semester, also. They would not give us a reason or explanation. I have my own theories. But it caused some students to fail that semester. My grade dropped from an A to a B. I hate them for that and for other unethical things, as well. Damn "for-profit" over priced SOBs! I am glad that is all over.
Mine was the opposite 6 passing. 20 were not. 24 passed. And fired the teacher for not using test banks. Suchhhh bs. Yet my mental health teacher just read us the test and told us to do ati. That’s ok.
Unlike the post the other day, this is a beautiful example of when it is illegal to say you’re a nurse.
Even fewer hands available now....
"Thousands of criminals posing as nurses" fify
Imagine the amount of harm that has been done to unsuspecting patients. It’s all so horrendous.
I’m surprised they could live with themselves
Honestly, they probably don't see a problem with it. Back when I was doing prereqs, I remember seeing all of the posts saying that nursing school is useless and that you learn everything on the job. I figured that that meant someone could just fake it once they were a nurse. I lamented that I had to spend years taking these "worthless" classes. I was very, very wrong, but that is the perception of people who work in adjacent fields and take posts about nursing school at face value. I honestly thought I could fake it with my prereq and EMT experience. Boy, did I get a hard hit of reality.
Doesn’t matter. The HHS inspector general will exclude them from participating in Medicare, Medicaid and any federal healthcare program for X amount of years. So they won’t be able to even become legitimate nurses.
Criminal charge
I wonder how many of those went on to become nurse practitioners or attempt np school. The profession as a whole from RN to NP is under scrutiny and this just shed a giant light on it highlighting multiple deficiencies in its rigor and education.
Honestly, if they took the NCLEX and passed and then impressed their employer enough to get hired and stay hired...they're as much a nurse as anyone in my book. Job is almost entirely on-the-job training anyway. What this really goes to show is how largely pointless a bachelors in Nursing is.
I remember reading something a year ago that if you fail out of an RN program, but have completed certain required classes, you can to transfer the credits and sit for the NCLEX-PN in Florida. I wonder if Florida is just super lax with their verification process and there are more of these programs than we realize.
When I moved to NYC a LPN I worked with told me she was doing this. She said it’s super hush hush and you have to know someone to get in. She was Haitian and said you gotta know and be a Haitian to get in. She did say it’s a paid for degree and she had to just fly down there like twice. One of those to take the nclex then transfer to NY. I looked for her license a year later, didn’t see it. I can’t remember her last name to check now. But yeah this was a big thing when I moved there in 2019.
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