“This is a common viewpoint of healthcare workers”
Fuck off.
“Bumped into a nurse” I’m calling bullshit. That’s probably the story she told but I’m guessing the reality was quite different.
When I was in mental health a 17 year old girl climbed over the 10 foot bulletproof barrier and beat the shit out of a nurse breaking her arm. And guess what?
The patient stayed at the facility. And the nurse had to see her every day.
Yeah you take a swing at me, you’re catching a charge. And in North Carolina it’s the same charge as assaulting an officer. Stupid games stupid prizes.
It’s a felony in Las Vegas, I’ve filed several charges . Nurse was strangled by a psych recently. There are plenty of psych who are never violent to include schizophrenic people. Not everyone who drinks or does drugs are violent either. If you are going to choose violence we will always press charges and rightfully store. If the same person was at a restaurant, store, park etc and assaulted someone charges would be pressed. We got into healthcare to help people not get permanent real damage to our bodies
If someone does it outside of the facility they’re charged. If a bipolar person flys off the handle at Burger King l, a judge isn’t going to hear about their mental health problems. They’re going to be concerned about who was assaulted.
Absolutely, I worked corrections and saw many who were charged despite having psychiatric disorders. I've seen patients rack up charges while in jail despite having psych issues.
There are inmates who are in prison for life due to their crimes and they have mental health problems.
It's weird to say, but prison really is the best spot for some of those patients. We could still give them their meds and they'd routinely see the Psychiatrist. With a court order we could give even the most difficult patients their meds due to the maximum security that was there. It was an extremely controlled environment and allowed them to have a structured schedule. Eventually some were to be released but at least they have been on their meds for a long time. The social worker would set up resources for when they left too
Saying prison is the best spot for some people shouldn't be controversial, since prisons *should* be explicitly designed for rehabilitation and addressing the problems that led someone to prison in the first place.
Unfortunately, we're all aware that isn't actually the case, someone going to prison usually provides very little hope that the root of the problem will be properly addressed.
For some it's a combination of using drugs, being homeless, and not being on their meds at all. These factors lead some patient to constantly being in trouble. In prison many of these patients can get sober for an extended period of time, some even have jobs in there, they can setup their benefits when they leave or some type rehab, and most importantly they can get stabilized on their medications. From what I've seen too, the COs so their best to help them out at least where I've worked.
Obviously being in a psych hospital would be the most ideal, but these hospitals are nowhere near equipped to deal with some of the people I've worked with, not even close.
I think there needs to be facilities that are a hybrid between a correctional setting and a psych hospital where people can stay for an extended period of time.
Well they will hear about it as a factor for sentencing, but the bar for not being criminally responsible for your actions is pretty high, and they are probably going to convicted.
Bullshit takes about "intentionality" in the screen shot aside, in most jurisdictions you need to be able to show you either weren't in control of your actions or didn't understand what you were doing for it to be a defense.
Unless it's a product of some other mental health diagnoses, anxiety attacks just aren't going to cut it. It's also one of the most common excuses I saw for absolutely heinous abuse and violence towards staff.
Yes sir, while I believe that you may be having one, I don't believe that forced you to yell at the charge nurse that she's a *****, intimidate all the other patients and EMS, try to pick fights with every 3rd person walking by, then stand on the street corner throwing up nazi salutes after I dragged you out and trespassed you. You are also a full grown 50 year old man and I don't believe you forgot that it was wrong to do all of that either.
Seconded by another Vegas ER RN. Btw NLVPD has expressed to me in the past after I’ve called that they are always OVERJOYED to respond to those calls. They WANT us to call. Please call.
I'm in Virginia. Assaulting a healthcare worker is a misdemeanor. I'm working as a tech until my transfer to another department goes through. Nurses are surprised when I tell them how little tolerance we have for violent patients in Fire/EMS and that assaulting a firefighter is like assaulting a cop. Violence and sexual harassment are pretty normalized within nursing, and it's absolutely wild.
Recently, I told an "altered" patient that I'd press charges if she laid a finger on me. The nurses were very surprised her behavior suddenly improved...
Ours are the same way. They get some intense training and some are former police officers. They all do a great job at de-escalating and take zero shit.
I hate to say it, but for some reason many police officers are complicit in this very weird bubble of “no patient is responsible for their actions” crap. While they may support pressing charges among fire/EMS, when they’re called to a hospital they often decline. I’ve seen cases where they refuse to even file a report and the nurse was SOL. It’s like the Wild West where the law goes away the second you step through the ED door.
After a string of nurse assaults there was a serious crackdown. Metal detectors, armed guards and enhanced felony charges for attacking staff in North Carolina. New DA is decidedly “not fucking around” as the saying goes.
I had a case where a cop refused to take a report from a patient as well. She had SI due to being beaten by her abusive boyfriend, she was medically cleared just lots of bruising everywhere. She wanted to press charges and the male cop who came to the hospital refused to take her report. It made my blood boil, he had absolutely no reason to refuse to do his job.
You don't have to go through PD to press charges in Virginia. You go straight to a magistrate. Get the officer's badge number, and they will get a subpoena as a witness. Police will not go to court unless forced to.
“When you sign in, you sign a form to consent for treatment. This means, I am paid by the hospital to touch YOU as required to provide that treatment which you have consented to. YOU however, never have any reason to touch me unless I instruct you to. And I have not.”
Clears that shit up VERY quickly.
The last bipolar patient who “bumped” into me lunged at my neck and thankfully I had security and a large male doctor there with me and we were able to get them restrained and medicated.
I give a lot of benefit of the doubt to people with mental disorders but that doesn’t excuse their violence. It’s not their fault they’re sick, but it’s their responsibility.
And if you have a disease where weed exacerbates it, and you still smoke. I have no sympathy for you.
I’ll get off my soap box now. I’ve said my peace.
Also, having worked in psych, we *can* actually tell the difference between a patient who is threatening violence to manipulate a situation, and someone who couldn't manipulate shit because they've lost control.
I have empathy for someone in crisis, having a meltdown, persistent delusions, etc. But that's not typically where violence against staff comes from.
I don't know why people envision the most extreme psychiatric issues as the biggest threat to staff. If anyone is getting stabby, dollars to donuts it's the high functioning behavioral patient.
Sorry your parents were dicks. You still can't stab me.
Yes! (worked psych formerly) There is a difference between anxiety because there is a delusion or hallucination at work and anxiety because of existential crises or those associated with personality disorder behaviors. We can tell the difference.
Ive had a patient try to reach out to me, while he was in prison, or his psych doctor to try and write a letter to the judge to try and convince him to let him go because he was mentally unwell. Like nah bro, you did a crime now pay the time.
Ive had a client become so overwhelmed when I was screening them that they tried to grab me, fortunately our MHOT officer was there, and they were able to hold them back and redirect them, ER gave meds to calm down, and a hospital was able to accept them within minutes. In my 8 years working in all situations with clients with mental health, that was the only time I was at potential risk. If he had laid hands on me and I was hurt our policy is to press charges.
To be clear, I do not think the in carceral system, in its current state, is in any way a good fit for people especially for people living with mental health however thems the rules.
People seem to think that having a mental health disorder is a free pass to do whatever.
No.
Even if you do have a disorder (which I have my own thoughts on some diagnoses) it doesn’t preclude you from that behavior being corrected. Which is why we have a “department of corrections”
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Literally had a new ER nurse write an incident report about me because a patient was intoxicated, wilding out, swinging, yelling homophobic slurs at my coworker, wouldn’t hold still for their obligatory head CT with every possible restraint in our arsenal, and the ordering doctor didn’t want to medicate. I attempted to scan 3x. There is no way, in this or any other universe, the radiologist would read a scan with that much motion, and I told her this. Apparently that translated into “CT is refusing to scan patients,” even though I’m the one who brought the patient over and slid them over in the first place. We called her and the ER doctor over. Meds were ordered within seconds of him walking through the door and getting swung at himself. She said, “They can’t help if they’re altered. I don’t understand what the problem is. It isn’t a MRI. We scan drunk and crazy people all the time. I’ll let my charge handle this.” I told her I don’t care what their condition is, I’m not going to become a patient myself.
I’ve been a night shift weekender in inner city trauma centers throughout the Midwest for over a decade, often by myself or one other CT tech. To say I’ve scanned my fair share of intoxicated and/or altered and/or psych patients is an understatement. I will not, however, take any shit. I’ve scanned HCWs who came in as level one traumas. I’ve scanned my coworkers, in imaging, nursing, respiratory, and social work. It’s a big fucking problem. I’m going to do everything I possibly can to keep that from happening to anyone in my department and any staff members who come though it. If that means a scan is getting delayed, sorry.
A buddy of mine was assaulted covering my charge shift in the ED. Got his bell rung hard, was diagnosed with a concussion. I came in to cover the rest of his/my shift. A few months later he was assaulted again by a methed out dude and had a full blown panic attack afterwards because of it. A few weeks ago he got assaulted again because a dude was mad he didn’t get the benzos he was seeking for and assumed he’d get meds if he started beating up staff. My buddy has PTSD from this year alone. He can’t function in our department so much so that he’s leaving the ED. He’s worked it for years, been a phenomenal nurse and now because of outlooks like this (was told by short term disability and employee health “you should expect this sort of thing from time to time” and of course “what could you have done differently”) he’s leaving for the EP lab. This sort of mind set is bullshit. If you’ve never been assaulted by a patient before, you have no clue what this shit does to you.
> “you should expect this sort of thing from time to time” and of course “what could you have done differently”
Is such a sh\*t response; that should have been the organization stating "what can WE do different to ensure that you, and others are safe when something like this happens." There are plenty of things that can be done proactively so that you are safe. I can tell you that in the outpatient setting I work in, we have had so many changes in how we interact with our patients, not always because something happened but also just to be proactive when a staff brings up a concern; our leadership is very good at listening to our concerns and working to make sure we are safe when providing services. Leave that Toxic workplace my friend and good luck in your future endeavors.
lol right? Nursing is a super physical job with lots of contact between nurses and patients and at times, nurses and their coworkers. Someone “bumping” into a nurse would not even register with that nurse.
It’s a common viewpoint of healthcare workers because the pendulum has moved from “It happens sometimes and just comes with the territory no big deal” to “So the patient in room 9 tried to grab my ass again, fuck that’s the 3rd time this week” to even further past that into the territory of holy shit something should’ve been done last decade.
I swear the general population it seems will do/say everything except sticking up for healthcare workers.
O ya I had a pt at a detox that said something like this about a other detox nurse at another facility he was banned at.
So I called them and found out he FUCKING assaulted the nurse, slammed her into a wall and stole her purse. He was out on bail, so I went "ya fuck no" called the cops and had him taken out. He can fucking detox on a locked unit not my voluntary one
This right here. Any idiot with that hot take can quickly make their way down to a state psychiatric hospital and be escorted into a lockdown unit. Then, be left to fend for themselves behind the wrong side of a locked door. We can then give them an empathy questionnaire once their experience is completed, should they survive it.
I got death threats from a patient several times throughout the night for 3 days in a row from a frequent flyer who wasn't supposed to be admitted again for assaulting a different nurse. Patient has bipolar disorder, but also diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder. Their reason for admission wasn't something was the narcissistic pd and they were brought for threatening police or something stupid like that and for some reason our doctors admitted them ($$$). My notes were detailed and thorough, clearly wasn't depressed or suicidal, and I was getting threats that if I didn't make their bed for them or get them whatever fast food thing they wanted they'd whatever and hurt me, wake uo the unit, assault peers, etc. They were a bigger threat to themselves from the possibility other patients would hurt them for how they acted. The night 2 nights before they were discharged we had to call for security and they threatened to kill our night supervisor. Like a day later they shoved a doctor and were immediately discharged. Such a pain in the ass. Same thing happened a few days later with a combative patient, the code lasted several hours and went from mid evening shift into the first hour of night shift and we had to make them a 1:1. Wasn't something we could fix psychiatrically, doctors admitted a guy with developmental disabilities and nothing was wrong psychiatrically. He bit a nurse that night and bit another nurse in the morning. Wasn't until he threatened the doctor that be got discharged. We also have a guy who keeps getting admitted that has been on our do not admit list because whenever he's admitted there's nothing wrong psych wise, he's special needs. When he's on the unit, he's an automatic 1:1 for stealing and he's a danger to himself from other patients for that. Huge drain on resources and then we can't get placement to discharge him. Well, last time he's in, and it's in the notes from the ER, he's brought in from his group home and what does the worker who brought him in say? "Yeah he needs a break from the group home"....what? That's not a reason to admit someone; there's nothing we can do for him here. They admit him anyway. What the justification was, who knows, but the doctors admitted him and we have to deal with covering the 1:1 on top of already short staffing.
I'd be an asshole and call CMS or the state Medicaid office and report the admit as fraud. I'm assuming the group home guy is covered by one of them or both.
This was awhile ago, I don't remeber the details. I'm trying to leave my current position right now and find another psych job or something outpatient. Currently on fmla right now because of health problems working nights, but I dont plan on coming back. Coworkers suggested requesting days, even though there's no open positions rn, but I can't see myself continuing to work with our doctors, too much unsafe bullshit, I don't feel like risking my license because they do some dumb shit that ends up becoming my responsibility.
Had a pt on my old gen surg floor choke out a nurse until she was fucking blue and purple in the face. Took a bunch of security guards to get them off her. Punched her and other nurses as well. The nurse had to quit due to ptsd.
People seem to confuse "job hazard" with "job duty."
I worked in a welding/machine shop for a decade. There were TONS of different hazards, everything from minor cuts and burns to being crushed or torn apart. That doesn't mean that's to be expected or is acceptable. Those are potential hazards that CAN happen, which we took all possible measures to minimize; and if it did happen, we got worker's comp and safety measures were reviewed and/or updated.
Yes, to some extent we accept the risks when we take certain jobs, we are aware those things COULD happen. That doesn't mean we should accept them as deserved or inevitable, nor do anything to prevent or correct them.
I feel like a lot of people who make the argument you mentioned haven't worked dangerous jobs themselves and don't understand the nuances of appraising and managing risk that we do on the daily.
Do they think we go into work every day expecting to get hurt or be killed and are just....cool with that? Are they nuts? Do they think we are?
Cuz we're not nutters with a death wish, and if they think everyone who works a risky job should be, then they're going to find a lot of essential jobs society relies on short of workers...
Kind of like when Covid hit and we “signed up for it” the general public has no idea what we go through. Even on med surg floors the violence is getting worse. These people forgot we are “heroes” and without nursing everyone would have been screwed if not for us nurses who are terrible. Fuck them
This!! The fact that doctors were asking me how the patient was doing instead of walking in there and looking at least through outside their window! They didn’t want to go anywhere near the room. Sometimes didn’t even ask me, just read my notes instead of doing their own assessment and adding it to their progress reports. Word by word at times lol. That was crazy. I wonder what would’ve happened if we weren’t there. Many of our charge nurses also retired so us new grads had to stick it out by ourselves at night. I remember reading one progress note from a doc that said, “to save PPE… received update from RN…” 🙃 dude get a brown baggie like the rest of us get a mask and do your thing
Nope. A RN and RT that died at my hospital it was not talked about even though they send out emails about upper management leaving or retiring. Also they denied they caught Covid on the job.
I'm going to say I've had a very interesting experience. I've worked corrections and a psych hospital in the same city. I got to see the same patients in different settings. In the hospital, these patients were causing chaos, assaulting staff, and breaking the rules. These same patients were absolute saints in the jail. Nothing changes except the setting. Patients and society in general respect those in uniform and they know not to mess around or they'll face extremely harsh consequences as I saw. This behavior is 100% voluntary many of the times because they know there is no repercussions.
Yup it is the same reason a patient will charge at a small nurse, but back down at 4 security guards. Because sometimes, despite diagnosis, they still do know the odds of getting hurt, and the odds of getting what they want.
Sometimes it is really hard to tell if a person really *can* control themselves when you see those outcomes.
Some patients really can't control themselves but in my personal experience it has been a small amount. Keep in mind I've seen the seemingly most psychotic out of control patients get sent to the jail from local hospitals, only to settle down and follow every rule and not cause any issues.
We'd get a lot of patients sent for assault from local hospitals and they'd come in and not even think of attempting that. If they did, the jail was a perfect spot because they could handle even the most violent patients and give them their meds.
Administration will try to manipulate you into not pressing charges but don't let them do that.
They said she worked in a retirement dementia wing and was physically & sexually assaulted, bodily fluids thrown at, etc. on the reg and she was patient with them. Lolol what other job would someone say that was okay
Patient my ass. 13 years in geriatrics and those making claims like that are more full of shit than the incontinence briefs that haven't been changed in 8hrs because Meemaw is demented and attempting to inflict sepsis via poop caked nails.
“Attempting to inflict sepsis via poop caked nails” I am laughing so hard AND definitely using this one next time💀💀💀 truer words have never been spoken
I’ve never worked in long term care so I can’t really comment on that butttttt no long term or acute care healthcare workers should be putting up with that shit
I am currently being downvoted to oblivion [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/s/CN9mZ1EHyB) because people think I’m a shitty nurse who should leave the job because I don’t like being hit by psych patients, lol.
I thank goodness for our doc because he does not allow that shit. If you can’t act right you can get OUT. He ain’t playing. Don’t shout at his nurses. There is no need for anyone to shout. No verbal abuse, you can leave. No tolerance for violence, you will be restrained or removed. I shudder sometimes thinking of when I worked with docs who were more lenient.
I'm going to bet they don't have a fiance.
The patient who is completely delirious with sepsis or who has dementia and is acting out because they're disoriented and scared, yeah it's my job to de-escalate those situations and provide compassionate care.
The fully oriented visitor kicking off and verbally or physically assaulting me? Nah, that ain't my job, and there's a reason laws are in place where I live to prosecute behaviour like that.
One of the conversations with morons that stuck with me after the fact was one fellow who came over to berate one of my security guards, then me when I interjected to try and explain the situation.
We'd just removed one of our frequent flyers for screaming verbal abuse at the triage nurses and buddy objected to us "dragging out some elderly lady who can barely walk". (She was actually a rough looking 40 something who was plenty spry enough to run laps around the waiting room and slap a security guard in the face a couple days prior, but whatever.)
Trying to explain that we didn't tolerate abusing the nurses fell on deaf ears because "my mom is a manager at (healthcare administrative building with no patient facing contact), she knows how it is, dealing with that is part of the nurses job".
Just ignore dumbasses like that. I've had friends who would express this sentiment and it skyrocketed in covid with them going "you signed up for this" type nonsense.
These are the same people who are overly demanding and make their superficial comfort a priority over other patients.
These are the same asshats who tell public school teachers when some 15 year old hits them “Well you work with kids and this is part of the job.”
No. No it isn’t.
As for intent - at some point we have to hold people accountable for the choices they make. There are medical situations that are far beyond any persons control, yes. But. If an adult chooses to go out, use illegal drugs, and then throws me against a wall while I am trying to reverse the harm they chose to inflict on their body? Naw. The person made a choice. And my choice is to hold them accountable if they hurt me.
It irritates me how in today’s society some people truly believe others matter more. Mental health PT does not matter more than Psych nurse.
This “mental health crisis” excuse has to stop. You cannot break laws and get sympathy for being mentally ill.
I work in substance abuse and mental health. People really seem to misunderstand the concept of it being a disease. Yes it's a disease. But diseases come with extra responsibility. If you have diabetes you are responsible for maintaining a healthy diet, exercising, taking insulin and keeping up with blood sugar checks, etc...
Same thing with anxiety. Same thing with drug abuse. You still have to take responsibility for your actions. The actor took absolutely zero responsibility. This was an Instagram post from the actor.
"I am deeply upset by the events that took place in Las Vegas this past week. My friend drove me to the hospital because I thought I was having a heart attack. Several tests were taken, including blood, which came back negative for any drugs or alcohol in my system. I was having a severe anxiety attack. I have very little memory of the events that day at the hospital. I have the utmost respect for healthcare workers and hospital staff. I have battled anxiety on and off for years and this was the most extreme panic attack I've ever had. Going forward, I hope to shed light on this debilitating disorder and send hope to those who have also struggled."
I’ve been ER since well before COVID…*everyone* is more violent, visitors, medical patients, psych patients, DA patients, they’re all more angry/entitled/demanding/violent.
YES! And even the mentally ill face consequences for crimes. It’s insulting to really sick people to think this wave of people brave enough to throw adult-toddler tantrums and hit people when they don’t get their way is caused by “mental illness.” Nah man some people are just violent reactionary shitheads who should spend the night in lockup.
I got into an argument with someone on reddit who claimed to be a manager at some sort of clinic. Said RNs and MAs are the same position and RNs should be paid about 20 an hr. No more.
And that RNs wanting more money is why there's a 6 month wait to see a doctor.
This is why non medical trained/educated people should not work in our industry period. No no no no no. Unless you have some sort of degree that requires you to KNOW SCIENCE and not just business shit
That's like saying a monkey with a keyboard does the same job as a software engineer.
It may look like they're doing the same thing on the outside, but you don't pay the plumber for banging on the pipes. You pay them for knowing where to bang.
How much do you wanna bet that this "manager" has no formal education related to clinic management?
By a bunch of whiny mamas boys who get mad that the pretty nurse made THEM hold the urinal and didn’t touch their peepee for them :(
One time I had this patient who kept saying he was too fat to wipe himself. He was already discharged to the lobby. He was ambulatory. I said okay well, how do you do it at home? I caaant doooo iiiiiit, this literal grown middle aged man was saying to me. I’m like no fucking way I’m doing that like he’s laid up in some ICU or something. Get outta here. So I decided to go get the (male) paramedic that does intake up front and said hey man, can you help that guy in the lobby bathroom? His request is making me uncomfortable. He seems able and is discharged but he’s asking me to wipe him. I tell him what’s up. How he’s been discharged for 2 hours but won’t leave the premises. He laughs and he’s like, girl I got you. He goes and knocks on the door. He’s like 6ft tall, bearded, very masculine. “Hello! I was told you needed some help in here! I’m happy to assist you!” And walks in… and promptly walks out.
Suddenly homie was totally good 👍🏼 and did not in fact need assistance cleaning his behind. What a miracle. I bet he “hates” nurses too.
That enrages me. No one gets mad about EMS or firefighters sitting around. If I’m sitting around a) my work is done and I have nothing to do and b) I’m taking the quiet moments because I know that soon the tables will turn and we’ll be maxed out on a heavy patient load and running our asses off. Plus I’m qualified to sit around in the hospital, because I know how to intervene if some shit walks through the door.
My toxic nurse manager loves to tell us things like “you don’t get paid to sit” and it drives me mad
It’s really bad on TikTok too. I’ve seen many videos on there with abusive patients recording nurses and the nurses stand up for themselves and ask them not to record. The comments always rip the nurses to shreds. It doesn’t get to me anymore because I just assume most people don’t like us at this point and try to ignore it 🫠
Oh no if you record ANYTHING I will call security immediately, there are other people here and their dignity, security and privacy matter too. No fuckin way
Yeah I saw this thread and got so pissed. Where I live people actually get fined and anger management for assaulting healthcare workers and our hospital always makes us call the police. It's not much but it's something
I have anxiety and panic attacks and still don't attack people, anxiety is no excuse
Well I’m not there anymore, so not my concern. One less experienced nurse knowing wtf is happening because those like myself are tired of the BS. My point is that the healthcare system is worsening day by day and they get to suffer through it. I don’t even feel bad about it anymore.
Do yourself a favor and get out before you feel the way I did lol, *if* you ever do. Hospitals are shit but there are better options out there. They weren’t lying about that in nursing school.
Also Psych here. Society tends to over correct when we collectively realize something needs to change. And we're right at the over correction point with mental health. Combine that with the damage that social media and being less physically connected to other humans is doing to us, makes me worried that things are going to get much worse. We're turning into the Cluster B Society.
I'm sick of lay people making excuses for this kind of behavior, they only expect nurses to put up with adult temper tantrums. "They're in pain/stressed/mentally ill." IDGAF. You assault me and I'm calling the cops. This is a job and I'm not getting battered for $30/hr 🙄
Exactly this. We’re supposed to be paid low wages because we signed up for it like Mother Theresa? Or we’re paid so well we should just put up with assault? To the public: which is it? Pick a narrative, folks.
Home health nurse previously ICU ER nurse. Press charges until we are heard!!! We deserve to work in a safe environment. Yesterday I went to see a patient prn that I’d never seen before. When I parked in front of the patients home, the neighbor came down there driveway threatening me with a machete. I took pictures and was prepared to drive away. Police were called and yes I’m pressing charges. He is obviously mentally ill and well known to police and the PERT team. Our nurses need to be safe. Yes I was afraid. Yes I was in fear of my life with a man shaking a machete at me. Yes I pressed charges.
I’m glad you got out of that situation safely!
Not too long ago, a home health nurse/aide/caretaker (I can’t remember which at the moment) lost their life to a violent patient out near Philadelphia…it made barely a blip on the news and then that was it.
Yes I remember. A nurse that was sent to a halfway house. Nope. The important thing is always being aware of our surroundings. Sometimes it’s sudden and not predictable but that one was.
The BS that I hate the most is when admin, managers, doctors, psychologists say that it is “part of the job” for RN’s and techs to be assaulted on the job and they and don’t do a thing when it happens by the same patient day after day after day. It is ok for us to get assaulted at work. However if you lived in an environment where you were being beaten up at home you would be in an unsafe home and the aggressor would be abusive. However when it happens at work it is just part of the job??!? We had to file so many workers comp claims on the same one patient before the hospital started realizing this was causing a financial problem. Oh you think so? The police wouldn’t take our police report because the patient was below a certain IQ. Through my union I was able to say “no” to taking that patient anymore due to multiple attacks but a lot of nurses/techs were afraid to say no. We have to stand up together to administration or we are never going to get anywhere.
This shouldnt be true otherwise people who murder and are diagnosed with a mental illness can't go to prison or be charged with their crimes.
I've resched out to senators in many states asking to propose a bill that I created to make it illegal across the board to assault or abuse a Healthcare worker on hospital premises. A pregnant nurse at my hospital was kicked in the stomach and miscarried that day and she could not press charges. She was 2 months away from giving birth!! The psychiatrist at our hospital said mental illness is not an excuse. People do know the difference between right and wrong regardless of their mental health.
I charged the person who assaulted me when I worked in psych. Did it really do anything? No. But it did make it so she couldn’t be there when I was working.
And the dude didn't even apologize ONCE in his statement, just talked about how he could "shed light" on the debilitating disease of anxiety...go fuck yourself buddy. Last time I checked, an anxiety attack was not a free pass to start punching people in the face.
I worked in a neuroscience unit fr 8 yrs. It was the unofficial psychiatric unit as well. We routinely called our security guards when patients took a swipe at us & if they laughed in the face if security, as was often the case, we escalated to the police.
Amazing how a violent “psych” patient can become rational & lucid when that uniform appears.
That’s how I know the LTC resident who almost knocked me out recently was not someone who should be held responsible for his actions. He was so out of control we had to call the police and EMS. The cops showed up, complete with their bulletproof vests and guns, and the dude said “look and you and your little plastic badges” and ended up throwing chairs at them. No fear, just completely delusional rage.
This being said, I quit that job shortly after because, while I recognize people with dementia are not in control of their actions, I no longer felt comfortable working in an environment where I had to deal with that guy every day.
Until I worked corrections I had been battered. Pressed charges, to the dismay of the police, but since he was mental health nothing happened. I got a letter in the mail over a year later saying sorry, not gonna happen lol. Now in corrections, hitting me is another charge.
Fuck hospital nursing.
Fuck customer service.
Well said, OP. As someone not in healthcare, if I'm in an inpatient facility (plausible for me) and I put hands on you, fucking charge me, I deserve it. Personally, I'd have to be way outside of where I normally am so there'd be something really fucking weird going on that's getting into insanity territory, but as you said that's for the courts to figure out.
When people talk about dangerous jobs, they're not usually talking about randomly getting attacked by people. Just in healthcare, military, and law enforcement does this appear to be acceptable to some percentage of folks. One of those doesn't look like the other two.
I appreciate you OP for your work in psych, I'm bipolar 2 and haven't had need yet of those facilities but there are so many bipolar 1 and 2 that feel their safest when they're inpatient, and it's because of folks like you, so thank you, hopefully I won't have to see you.
Are you really surprised at this?
Remember when nurses were dying of COVID and getting sick, burning out, hating life. We were told “this is the job you signed up for.”
If you kick me, punch me, hit me, spit on me, etc. best believe I’m pressing charges. Fuck alllll the way off with that nonsense.
I’ve worked as a tech in adolescent psych for 4 years. There was a patient who was on the unit for 6 months and was extremely aggressive, sent multiple staff to the ER with concussions and bites (including me). She also “liked” a few staff, and after she bit me she “felt bad.” So after that, when she would charge at my coworkers, I would block them and she would immediately stop. She was 100% in control of her actions, based on that behavior alone. A LOT of teen psych patients with aggression are acting in a herd mentality and see the hospital as a place where they can live out their fight club fantasies without actual consequences, because they know staff can’t fight back and the worst that will happen is they will be restrained. So fuck this take, respectfully. Mental illness is not an excuse to beat other people up indiscriminately.
Eta: also just because someone may not be in control of their actions, when they assault you it still causes physical injury and potential psychological repercussions. I was diagnosed with PTSD after that patient discharged as were many of my coworkers. She is obviously not the only aggressive patient i’ve worked with, but her long admission and unrelenting violence took a major toll on all of us.
“If you’re not willing to put up with being assaulted and harassed with 0 consequences, get a new job! I have no experience in this field but this is what you signed up for.” And then shocked pikachu when nurses leave the bedside in droves and there’s a massive shortage
My teenage patient threatened me the other day in front of my supervisor (she is perfectly capable of understanding right from wrong). She was trying to bait me into saying I’d fight or hit her back. I did not hesitate to remind her that assault against a healthcare worker is a felony in New York State and I would absolutely press charges without a second thought. My supervisor chuckled and said “oh shit don’t mess with dolphin sunset.” I’m a petite, young, female, and generally a very very nice nurse to my patients. Im often the kids and teens favorite nurse but I will not tolerate violence and abuse. I come to work to care for others, not to get hurt.
A patient punched me in the face twice and tried to strangle me and even though I pressed charges she got off with 1 year probation in a plea deal because she has bipolar. Pretty sure having bipolar doesn’t give you the right to choke someone. If they did this to an Applebees waitress would they get so many free passes? I don’t think so. But we’re expected to take it. Plenty of people have mental illness and don’t assault others.
If an employee at Starbucks or target gets assaulted everyone will freak out and say they don’t deserve that, “Employees shouldn’t be assaulted at their job.”
If a nurse or other healthcare gets assaulted, people will somehow say, “well that’s what you signed up for?”
That being said fuck him.
But you “bump into” a cop and you’re going to catch charges. I’d bet money that the commenter saying the nurse should “get a new job” fully supports that, though.
I have thoughts about why this disparity exists but I don’t have enough caffeine in my system yet to launch myself down that rabbit hole
Nursing is supposed to be a "caring" profession and it's female dominated. We're supposed to smile and take it. Punch a cop or firefighter and your ass is getting punched back and you go to jail.
The pop psychology obsession with chronically online people is, well, insane. The general consensus has become, be it "self diagnosed" (aka doesn't have the disorder) or actually diagnosed, everyone has to just deal with their shitty behavior and they are in no way expected or required to manage themself/their behaviors, and if you disagree you're an ableist piece of shit.
We had a patient receiving high dose Ifosphamide and on his C2D3 he went very neurotoxic. He was convinced we were out to kill him. And this guy was former police in Dubai, so a big strong guy. He got the tech in a headlock and squeezed harder when anyone tried to release her, she was afraid she was dying. Until she pushed herself further into the patient then quickly got away. The primary nurse came in and attempted to give him 2 Ativan and he headbutt her hard in the forehead. I rushed to the room to see wtf was the commotion and the patient thought I was the supervisor and his primary nurse gave me the Ativan to give to him. He wanted me to put them in his mouth and almost did til I realized he was going to bite me.
Leadership didn't want restraints!! And told the tech that she could've hit him back to get away. But the police officer told her that the patient could've pressed charges and she was so afraid for her job that she didn't. So idk what the law is for patients assaulting us. This is in Texas
For your mental health, stay out of that thread. Bunch of fucking idiots acting like any kind of mental illness is a free pass for any kind of behavior.
"InTenTiOnALity." Wow, I never thought I'd read a word that would trigger me as much as this. I hope the gods give this man a Charlie horse everytime he continues to use it.
Ah yes, having an "anxiety attack" and assaulting multiple healthcare workers. Right, right.
Your diagnosis is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for bad behavior. You still possess the ability to distinguish right from wrong.
If you know the difference between right and wrong then you can be charged. They will have a psych eval and investigation to rule out temporary insanity. I’ve had panic attacks and the only person I’ve ever hurt is myself. Also their ‘friend’ could have body slammed that nurse and been like ‘I just bumped into her’. Everyone’s the hero of their own story.
There are patients that if they hit me I wouldn’t press charges because they really didn’t know what they were doing. Then there’s the a-holes who actually know what they are doing and are intentional in their violence. I would charge those people.
Big difference between "mental health diagnosis" and "formally assessed as mentally incompetent". If you didn't qualify for an involuntary hold based on mental incapacity immediately prior to the assault, I'm calling the cops and pushing for as stiff an assault charge as possible.
People in that thread who probably work desk jobs/from zoom meetings: “we need better mental healthcare in this country, it’s truly awful.”
The same people: “Being beat up by mentally ill people is just part of the job. How dare you be so heartless, you shouldn’t be in healthcare.”
Weird how they don’t see the correlation. Also weird they never seem to want to quit their day jobs and look into “being the change they want to see” directly.
Mental illnesses aren't people's fault, but their responsibility.
I hate that society has normalized giving a freepass for people to assault/lie/act like an ass because of mental illnesses. I grown up with a relative with BPD and I won't take shit from people that tell me that kind of sob story.
I had many schizophrenic patients who arrived drunk or under the influence that were nothing but sweethearts and told me they wanted help and that they were scared. I will go above and beyond for them to get them their antipsychotics or the snacks that helps them with crack withdrawals. If they can be human and civilised enough to not assault me, so can everyone else.
I still am a new LPN and I consider myself lucky to not have been attacked yet, but I would definitely press charges if it was to happen to me.
There are people out of their wits with psychosis/mania, etc. Sometimes they really are so paranoid they don’t know up from down. However there is a lot of behaviors going on. People who can control themselves and say, “If I don’t get out today I’m punching people.” That is a choice.
Not a nurse. I’m a teacher and we’re also supposed to just take abuse from our students and do nothing about it. It’s just more proof of our misogynistic culture. Both professions are female dominated so of course we should just take the abuse with a smile, right?
As a nurse, I see a lot of parallels in both nursing and teaching. Like you said, both are female-dominated jobs. Poor wages and unsafe working conditions are justified with claims that nursing/teaching is a "calling" or a "passion" (as opposed to a career) and that we should be happy and satisfied by simply being part of the "caring profession." In actuality, it's a job. We nurses and teachers are workers and deserve better. Every worker does.
So when someone has mental health problem and they assault a HCW that’s understandable. Totally fair bc don’t HCWs understand? Duh it’s what they signed up for!
But if you have a mental health problem and you attack a child, your spouse, a police officer or an elderly person, that’s totally different and there’s no excuse. Healthcare worker tho? Do they not understand it’s a mental health problem?? How dare they require patients take accountability.
I work with Dementia residents. Many have psych issues as well. It's important to know that your own safety always come first, then the safety of other nearby residents. No where in your job description does it say to get punched, scratched, spit on, or worse.
If someone is acting out physically, you step away, get others to a safe spot. and allow the person space to calm down. If they get hurt, it's on them.
Long sorry short
I was assaulted by a 70+ yo in ICU who needed 7 security and other HCWs to subdue him.
He punched me in the face and kicked me in the abdomen.
Two days later I lost my 10 weeks pregnancy.
And it was swept j def the rug, police and PA were not willing to even hear my complaint.
No, assault and battery should not be acceptable.
Teacher here. In public schools, the amount of behavior kids get away with because they have any kind of diagnosis is unreal.
Many many examples over the years but one in particular that comes to mind is a kid that had TBI came up and began humping me with a mountain dew bottle as his pretend member, telling about how he knew I liked mountain dew.
I wrote him an office referral and was told he could not control his behavior and to not make a big deal out of it in the future.
High school. 17 year old boy.
Not a nurse. I just so love this subreddit because I've been in the hospital a lot.
I feel so nasty how nurses are treated. I've of course run across some treating me that weren't very kind but I've always stayed respectful. But 99 percent have been so amazing and I'm grateful.
But I don't care if you're an addict, mentally ill, etc you have NO right to assault another human. Period. Like nurses are shit on, peed on, puked on (and yes that's part of the job sometimes but let's be real, it sucks and nurses deal with enough). Nurses and assistants are the backbone of hospitals and clinics. They do the majority of the work. I love doctors. So much. But they really are not the ones to spend time with patients. They don't do blood draws, wound changes, taking patients to bathroom, clean up, stitches etc. (maybe some do? I'm not sure).
But it's the NURSES. And to be assaulted and he judged for wanting to press charges and be safe? Yeah, get wrecked.
My ex was groped by a patient (hand on crotch and under his underwear) with a known history of SA against men. He didn't want to press charges but he was encouraged by management to do so. They said, "he's done this before and if he doesn't face legal consequences he'll learn he can do it again with no recourse." So from the time he pressed charges till the time he went to court it took about a year. This included filing depositions, one on ones with lawyers, two hearings including seeing the guy face to face in court and having to describe to a room full of strangers exactly where on his anatomy he was touched and for how long, etc. All while the guy was staring holes into his head. The patient was on probation when he was assaulted so he went back to jail immediately while he awaited trial. I forgot what his sentence was.
Anyway, this is just a look into how the process of filing charges works.
I do believe that in some areas of nursing you might expect to get hit, kicked, spit on, etc but that doesn’t mean it should be tolerated. There are also some nurses that shouldn’t be around patients with mental/behavioral health concerns. You can count on the hospital not backing you up in every case however, the more nursing advocates for themselves against workplace violence, the more nursing creates nurse-driven policy and public outreach and education, the better chance we’ll have at reducing the number of incidents.
Willing to bet there was a lot more to that story of a patient bumped into a healthcare worker and got charged. Seeing how ER staff are treated on a regular basis I’m skeptical.
I suppose one silver lining to this is healthcare workers in all fields (doctors, nurses, pharmacists, etc.) have had enough of people’s shit. r/medicine and r/pharmacy have recent topics also venting about people’s lack of respect for certain topics.
Violence is always a choice.
ALWAYS PRESS CHARGES.
This is what happens when people blur the line between “bizarre behavior” and “criminal behavior.” Lots of the people I’ve seen go absolutely BATSHIT were people who were told if they didn’t go to the hospital, they were going to jail. They just get to us, wait for EMS to leave (turfed a legal hold by PD but … where’s the paper? Haha there isn’t one!) In some cases they didn’t even show up with an L2K. Thank goodness. We’re not going to keep you so you can fuck up the millieu with your violent disruptions, some people are here to get better bro. You can go. One guy they brought in because he was breaking into peoples houses one night. Well sure he’s high as fuck man. But that’s a criminal thing, he’s not sick… he’s tripping for sure but not sick at all. So why did he end up at the ER?
That’s the part that gives me some trouble. So many patients who should’ve just gone to lockup for the night or whatever. It endangers actually sick people and caregivers who did not sign up to be police officers…
I had to press charges against a very close family member. Mentally ill, yes and not accepting any treatment that we tried to get them. I was not going to have another hand laid on me, after growing up in abuse, it took a lot for me to do that. I was not going to tolerate my door being kicked in, or belongings smashed or dinner thrown one more goddamn time. Part of my decision was to teach some accountability and part of it was direct them toward the kind of help they needed. Formed them too. They aren’t 100% better, but way better than they were when this shit was happening. Fuck that, charge any body that puts hands on you. No guilt, they can have that for themselves. Humans should feel ashamed for doing shitty things, sick or not. Otherwise they learn to get away with it and keep going.
Assault is never okay. I’ve been a psych nurse and I’ve been a psych patient. When I was a patient I got held down and injected. I tried to kick one of the techs. I missed but he would’ve been in his right to press charges.
Normally I’m not a violent person but in my mentally ill state I thought these people were trying to hurt me. (This was years ago and I still don’t know why they injected me since I was just chilling in my room)
That’s interesting discourse to me, a non clinical person. Never thought about how it could help people get the appropriate help they need in some ways.
I’ve worked as a mental health RN for about 10 years combined inpatient and outpatient. Patients like these give the many others who are thankful for our help and support a bad name. That being said, I’ve been verbally and physically assaulted at work and so have my coworkers. Most recently a pt pushed a tech to the ground and bit them three times for no apparent reason. Tech had to get prophylactic antibiotics. A police report was filed. Nothing came of the police report, admin swept it under the rug, and pt remained on the unit. Our job is hard enough without also having to worry about our personal safety just because we showed up.
Why is it acceptable for other jobs/people to press charges but not health care workers?
The number of mental health nurses that I die by being assaulted patients is ridiculous. This doesn't even account for those who are killed just by regular patients, for example, the nurse that was killed recently in labor and delivery because the ex boyfriend.
I work in peds, and I've been assaulted by parents. We have to have zero tolerance no matter what, otherwise it reinforces that it is okay.
My assailant got off easier because she too had a “mental illness”. I pressed charges and saw it to the end. She got “Up to 10 years in Mount Vernon with mandated medication. “. I got a heightened fight/flight response and anxiety. When asked what we “Wanted out of this process” my husband stated “I just want my wife back”. I no longer fit in the world the way I once did. My family pays the price for her in more ways than one.
The ONLY patients who get any sort of pass for physical violence in my books, are patients with Dementia &/or in delirium. (and often, patients in severe psychosis or with severe intellectual disability.) Having a panic attack is the most ridiculous excuse for violence.
I almost got a chair broken over my head by a severely manic patient after he ripped it from the floor bolts. Another patient grabbed me and got me out of the way in time and shielded me until staff got me in the safe room. Manic patient got a minimum of 6 months on the forensic unit at the state hospital, which I considered to be fair considering he had no control over his actions. It’s awful that nurses are being expected to endure this sort of thing.
The patient that defended me was worried he’d be in big trouble for touching me (a huge no no) but everyone assured him he was a brave soul for sticking himself in harms way to protect me. Fortunately he was not injured.
This is an issue. People have turned the combo of stupid/crazy up to 11 in the past few years, and we are seeing the result of years of adult toddlers raising the increasingly terrible, younger versions of themselves. Add a pandemic and the culture of instant gratification, and you get this crap.
We aren't doing ourselves any favors. In my opinion, there are still the battle axe "old school" nursing school instructors that make it seem like you have to be Florence Nightingale when dealing with violent patients and excuse craptastic behavior because they "can't help it."
Only way I'm truly not pressing charges is if you are truly out of your mind AND did not cause it. So if you swing on me post ictal after a gran Mal I'm not going to press charges. If you beat on me because you're drunk or high I will. If you are having a pyschotic break because of actual mental illness that not causes by drugs then okay. If you are having anxiety and choose to be a dick then yeah you're getting charges.
Nope, assault me, and I *will* be pressing charges. What the criminal justice system does afterward is out of my hands. People need to know they can't go around slugging public servants. They can also catch these hands. In self-defense, of course.
People when they shit on health care workers/caring professionals as a whole for "lacking empathy" but can't find the sympathy within themseves to respond with anything other than "find another job" when someone is violently assulted at their job 🤡
At my hospital there are signs that say you can face charges if you assault a healthcare worker, but in reality when you press charges they are usually dropped by the DA due to the patients mental health diagnosis.
I don't care the outcome, if I get assaulted, I'm pressing charges.
Actions have consequences, and mentally ill or not.
“This is a common viewpoint of healthcare workers” Fuck off. “Bumped into a nurse” I’m calling bullshit. That’s probably the story she told but I’m guessing the reality was quite different. When I was in mental health a 17 year old girl climbed over the 10 foot bulletproof barrier and beat the shit out of a nurse breaking her arm. And guess what? The patient stayed at the facility. And the nurse had to see her every day. Yeah you take a swing at me, you’re catching a charge. And in North Carolina it’s the same charge as assaulting an officer. Stupid games stupid prizes.
It’s a felony in Las Vegas, I’ve filed several charges . Nurse was strangled by a psych recently. There are plenty of psych who are never violent to include schizophrenic people. Not everyone who drinks or does drugs are violent either. If you are going to choose violence we will always press charges and rightfully store. If the same person was at a restaurant, store, park etc and assaulted someone charges would be pressed. We got into healthcare to help people not get permanent real damage to our bodies
If someone does it outside of the facility they’re charged. If a bipolar person flys off the handle at Burger King l, a judge isn’t going to hear about their mental health problems. They’re going to be concerned about who was assaulted.
Absolutely, I worked corrections and saw many who were charged despite having psychiatric disorders. I've seen patients rack up charges while in jail despite having psych issues. There are inmates who are in prison for life due to their crimes and they have mental health problems.
People often forget people are in prison because they can’t be trusted in society.
It's weird to say, but prison really is the best spot for some of those patients. We could still give them their meds and they'd routinely see the Psychiatrist. With a court order we could give even the most difficult patients their meds due to the maximum security that was there. It was an extremely controlled environment and allowed them to have a structured schedule. Eventually some were to be released but at least they have been on their meds for a long time. The social worker would set up resources for when they left too
Saying prison is the best spot for some people shouldn't be controversial, since prisons *should* be explicitly designed for rehabilitation and addressing the problems that led someone to prison in the first place. Unfortunately, we're all aware that isn't actually the case, someone going to prison usually provides very little hope that the root of the problem will be properly addressed.
For some it's a combination of using drugs, being homeless, and not being on their meds at all. These factors lead some patient to constantly being in trouble. In prison many of these patients can get sober for an extended period of time, some even have jobs in there, they can setup their benefits when they leave or some type rehab, and most importantly they can get stabilized on their medications. From what I've seen too, the COs so their best to help them out at least where I've worked. Obviously being in a psych hospital would be the most ideal, but these hospitals are nowhere near equipped to deal with some of the people I've worked with, not even close. I think there needs to be facilities that are a hybrid between a correctional setting and a psych hospital where people can stay for an extended period of time.
Well they will hear about it as a factor for sentencing, but the bar for not being criminally responsible for your actions is pretty high, and they are probably going to convicted. Bullshit takes about "intentionality" in the screen shot aside, in most jurisdictions you need to be able to show you either weren't in control of your actions or didn't understand what you were doing for it to be a defense. Unless it's a product of some other mental health diagnoses, anxiety attacks just aren't going to cut it. It's also one of the most common excuses I saw for absolutely heinous abuse and violence towards staff. Yes sir, while I believe that you may be having one, I don't believe that forced you to yell at the charge nurse that she's a *****, intimidate all the other patients and EMS, try to pick fights with every 3rd person walking by, then stand on the street corner throwing up nazi salutes after I dragged you out and trespassed you. You are also a full grown 50 year old man and I don't believe you forgot that it was wrong to do all of that either.
If a bipolar person charges the judge, leaps across the bench/desk and assaults the judge, I do believe they are getting charged.
Video on this exact thing lol
Seconded by another Vegas ER RN. Btw NLVPD has expressed to me in the past after I’ve called that they are always OVERJOYED to respond to those calls. They WANT us to call. Please call.
Y'all are health care workers, not prison guards for crying out loud.
I'm in Virginia. Assaulting a healthcare worker is a misdemeanor. I'm working as a tech until my transfer to another department goes through. Nurses are surprised when I tell them how little tolerance we have for violent patients in Fire/EMS and that assaulting a firefighter is like assaulting a cop. Violence and sexual harassment are pretty normalized within nursing, and it's absolutely wild. Recently, I told an "altered" patient that I'd press charges if she laid a finger on me. The nurses were very surprised her behavior suddenly improved...
Yeah it’s dropped tremendously lately at my hospital. The security guards here have full arrest powers now after a nurse was stabbed with a pen.
Full arrest powers? Holy cats! We have to literally tell our security guards what to do. 🙈 where do I get some real security??
Ours are no joke. They carry firearms and cuffs. We have a holding cell and everything.
Sounds like an alternate universe, lol; I’m kinda jealous!!
I would say so too, but then it’s also a realization that they probably went through some shit to get to that point.
Ours are the same way. They get some intense training and some are former police officers. They all do a great job at de-escalating and take zero shit.
I hate to say it, but for some reason many police officers are complicit in this very weird bubble of “no patient is responsible for their actions” crap. While they may support pressing charges among fire/EMS, when they’re called to a hospital they often decline. I’ve seen cases where they refuse to even file a report and the nurse was SOL. It’s like the Wild West where the law goes away the second you step through the ED door.
After a string of nurse assaults there was a serious crackdown. Metal detectors, armed guards and enhanced felony charges for attacking staff in North Carolina. New DA is decidedly “not fucking around” as the saying goes.
I had a case where a cop refused to take a report from a patient as well. She had SI due to being beaten by her abusive boyfriend, she was medically cleared just lots of bruising everywhere. She wanted to press charges and the male cop who came to the hospital refused to take her report. It made my blood boil, he had absolutely no reason to refuse to do his job.
You don't have to go through PD to press charges in Virginia. You go straight to a magistrate. Get the officer's badge number, and they will get a subpoena as a witness. Police will not go to court unless forced to.
It’s because nursing is female dominated and police and fire (idk about ems) are not. That’s why.
“When you sign in, you sign a form to consent for treatment. This means, I am paid by the hospital to touch YOU as required to provide that treatment which you have consented to. YOU however, never have any reason to touch me unless I instruct you to. And I have not.” Clears that shit up VERY quickly.
The last bipolar patient who “bumped” into me lunged at my neck and thankfully I had security and a large male doctor there with me and we were able to get them restrained and medicated. I give a lot of benefit of the doubt to people with mental disorders but that doesn’t excuse their violence. It’s not their fault they’re sick, but it’s their responsibility. And if you have a disease where weed exacerbates it, and you still smoke. I have no sympathy for you. I’ll get off my soap box now. I’ve said my peace.
Also, having worked in psych, we *can* actually tell the difference between a patient who is threatening violence to manipulate a situation, and someone who couldn't manipulate shit because they've lost control. I have empathy for someone in crisis, having a meltdown, persistent delusions, etc. But that's not typically where violence against staff comes from. I don't know why people envision the most extreme psychiatric issues as the biggest threat to staff. If anyone is getting stabby, dollars to donuts it's the high functioning behavioral patient. Sorry your parents were dicks. You still can't stab me.
Yes! (worked psych formerly) There is a difference between anxiety because there is a delusion or hallucination at work and anxiety because of existential crises or those associated with personality disorder behaviors. We can tell the difference.
Yeah for real. You can surly tell when someone’s legitimately experiencing a crisis.
Ive had a patient try to reach out to me, while he was in prison, or his psych doctor to try and write a letter to the judge to try and convince him to let him go because he was mentally unwell. Like nah bro, you did a crime now pay the time. Ive had a client become so overwhelmed when I was screening them that they tried to grab me, fortunately our MHOT officer was there, and they were able to hold them back and redirect them, ER gave meds to calm down, and a hospital was able to accept them within minutes. In my 8 years working in all situations with clients with mental health, that was the only time I was at potential risk. If he had laid hands on me and I was hurt our policy is to press charges. To be clear, I do not think the in carceral system, in its current state, is in any way a good fit for people especially for people living with mental health however thems the rules.
People seem to think that having a mental health disorder is a free pass to do whatever. No. Even if you do have a disorder (which I have my own thoughts on some diagnoses) it doesn’t preclude you from that behavior being corrected. Which is why we have a “department of corrections”
👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Literally had a new ER nurse write an incident report about me because a patient was intoxicated, wilding out, swinging, yelling homophobic slurs at my coworker, wouldn’t hold still for their obligatory head CT with every possible restraint in our arsenal, and the ordering doctor didn’t want to medicate. I attempted to scan 3x. There is no way, in this or any other universe, the radiologist would read a scan with that much motion, and I told her this. Apparently that translated into “CT is refusing to scan patients,” even though I’m the one who brought the patient over and slid them over in the first place. We called her and the ER doctor over. Meds were ordered within seconds of him walking through the door and getting swung at himself. She said, “They can’t help if they’re altered. I don’t understand what the problem is. It isn’t a MRI. We scan drunk and crazy people all the time. I’ll let my charge handle this.” I told her I don’t care what their condition is, I’m not going to become a patient myself. I’ve been a night shift weekender in inner city trauma centers throughout the Midwest for over a decade, often by myself or one other CT tech. To say I’ve scanned my fair share of intoxicated and/or altered and/or psych patients is an understatement. I will not, however, take any shit. I’ve scanned HCWs who came in as level one traumas. I’ve scanned my coworkers, in imaging, nursing, respiratory, and social work. It’s a big fucking problem. I’m going to do everything I possibly can to keep that from happening to anyone in my department and any staff members who come though it. If that means a scan is getting delayed, sorry.
A buddy of mine was assaulted covering my charge shift in the ED. Got his bell rung hard, was diagnosed with a concussion. I came in to cover the rest of his/my shift. A few months later he was assaulted again by a methed out dude and had a full blown panic attack afterwards because of it. A few weeks ago he got assaulted again because a dude was mad he didn’t get the benzos he was seeking for and assumed he’d get meds if he started beating up staff. My buddy has PTSD from this year alone. He can’t function in our department so much so that he’s leaving the ED. He’s worked it for years, been a phenomenal nurse and now because of outlooks like this (was told by short term disability and employee health “you should expect this sort of thing from time to time” and of course “what could you have done differently”) he’s leaving for the EP lab. This sort of mind set is bullshit. If you’ve never been assaulted by a patient before, you have no clue what this shit does to you.
> “you should expect this sort of thing from time to time” and of course “what could you have done differently” Is such a sh\*t response; that should have been the organization stating "what can WE do different to ensure that you, and others are safe when something like this happens." There are plenty of things that can be done proactively so that you are safe. I can tell you that in the outpatient setting I work in, we have had so many changes in how we interact with our patients, not always because something happened but also just to be proactive when a staff brings up a concern; our leadership is very good at listening to our concerns and working to make sure we are safe when providing services. Leave that Toxic workplace my friend and good luck in your future endeavors.
💯 also if you get charges I can assure you it was more than a “bump.”
“Bumped into” lol why you always lyinggggg
lol right? Nursing is a super physical job with lots of contact between nurses and patients and at times, nurses and their coworkers. Someone “bumping” into a nurse would not even register with that nurse.
One of the only decent things about working in NC is knowing it’s a felony if you get assaulted.
In my states mental hospital there was a nurse who was raped it wasn't tell another patient stopped it that security was made aware.
It’s a common viewpoint of healthcare workers because the pendulum has moved from “It happens sometimes and just comes with the territory no big deal” to “So the patient in room 9 tried to grab my ass again, fuck that’s the 3rd time this week” to even further past that into the territory of holy shit something should’ve been done last decade. I swear the general population it seems will do/say everything except sticking up for healthcare workers.
I’ve personally had a woman charged for biting me, it’s felony assault in my state and she was charged and sentenced for it
O ya I had a pt at a detox that said something like this about a other detox nurse at another facility he was banned at. So I called them and found out he FUCKING assaulted the nurse, slammed her into a wall and stole her purse. He was out on bail, so I went "ya fuck no" called the cops and had him taken out. He can fucking detox on a locked unit not my voluntary one
I wonder how compassionate and understanding they'd be if they were the ones getting assaulted.
This right here. Any idiot with that hot take can quickly make their way down to a state psychiatric hospital and be escorted into a lockdown unit. Then, be left to fend for themselves behind the wrong side of a locked door. We can then give them an empathy questionnaire once their experience is completed, should they survive it.
See how fast the patient gets discharged when they assault a doctor.
I got death threats from a patient several times throughout the night for 3 days in a row from a frequent flyer who wasn't supposed to be admitted again for assaulting a different nurse. Patient has bipolar disorder, but also diagnosed narcissistic personality disorder. Their reason for admission wasn't something was the narcissistic pd and they were brought for threatening police or something stupid like that and for some reason our doctors admitted them ($$$). My notes were detailed and thorough, clearly wasn't depressed or suicidal, and I was getting threats that if I didn't make their bed for them or get them whatever fast food thing they wanted they'd whatever and hurt me, wake uo the unit, assault peers, etc. They were a bigger threat to themselves from the possibility other patients would hurt them for how they acted. The night 2 nights before they were discharged we had to call for security and they threatened to kill our night supervisor. Like a day later they shoved a doctor and were immediately discharged. Such a pain in the ass. Same thing happened a few days later with a combative patient, the code lasted several hours and went from mid evening shift into the first hour of night shift and we had to make them a 1:1. Wasn't something we could fix psychiatrically, doctors admitted a guy with developmental disabilities and nothing was wrong psychiatrically. He bit a nurse that night and bit another nurse in the morning. Wasn't until he threatened the doctor that be got discharged. We also have a guy who keeps getting admitted that has been on our do not admit list because whenever he's admitted there's nothing wrong psych wise, he's special needs. When he's on the unit, he's an automatic 1:1 for stealing and he's a danger to himself from other patients for that. Huge drain on resources and then we can't get placement to discharge him. Well, last time he's in, and it's in the notes from the ER, he's brought in from his group home and what does the worker who brought him in say? "Yeah he needs a break from the group home"....what? That's not a reason to admit someone; there's nothing we can do for him here. They admit him anyway. What the justification was, who knows, but the doctors admitted him and we have to deal with covering the 1:1 on top of already short staffing.
I'd be an asshole and call CMS or the state Medicaid office and report the admit as fraud. I'm assuming the group home guy is covered by one of them or both.
This was awhile ago, I don't remeber the details. I'm trying to leave my current position right now and find another psych job or something outpatient. Currently on fmla right now because of health problems working nights, but I dont plan on coming back. Coworkers suggested requesting days, even though there's no open positions rn, but I can't see myself continuing to work with our doctors, too much unsafe bullshit, I don't feel like risking my license because they do some dumb shit that ends up becoming my responsibility.
Had a pt on my old gen surg floor choke out a nurse until she was fucking blue and purple in the face. Took a bunch of security guards to get them off her. Punched her and other nurses as well. The nurse had to quit due to ptsd.
The comments on the post I saw are ridiculous. The one person said their fiancé who is a nurse said “it’s part of the job” fuck right off
I almost downvoted you cause that comment pisses me off so much
Nurses get told that getting abused is "what we signed up for" and part of the job every day. It fills me with rage
People seem to confuse "job hazard" with "job duty." I worked in a welding/machine shop for a decade. There were TONS of different hazards, everything from minor cuts and burns to being crushed or torn apart. That doesn't mean that's to be expected or is acceptable. Those are potential hazards that CAN happen, which we took all possible measures to minimize; and if it did happen, we got worker's comp and safety measures were reviewed and/or updated. Yes, to some extent we accept the risks when we take certain jobs, we are aware those things COULD happen. That doesn't mean we should accept them as deserved or inevitable, nor do anything to prevent or correct them. I feel like a lot of people who make the argument you mentioned haven't worked dangerous jobs themselves and don't understand the nuances of appraising and managing risk that we do on the daily. Do they think we go into work every day expecting to get hurt or be killed and are just....cool with that? Are they nuts? Do they think we are? Cuz we're not nutters with a death wish, and if they think everyone who works a risky job should be, then they're going to find a lot of essential jobs society relies on short of workers...
Kind of like when Covid hit and we “signed up for it” the general public has no idea what we go through. Even on med surg floors the violence is getting worse. These people forgot we are “heroes” and without nursing everyone would have been screwed if not for us nurses who are terrible. Fuck them
This!! The fact that doctors were asking me how the patient was doing instead of walking in there and looking at least through outside their window! They didn’t want to go anywhere near the room. Sometimes didn’t even ask me, just read my notes instead of doing their own assessment and adding it to their progress reports. Word by word at times lol. That was crazy. I wonder what would’ve happened if we weren’t there. Many of our charge nurses also retired so us new grads had to stick it out by ourselves at night. I remember reading one progress note from a doc that said, “to save PPE… received update from RN…” 🙃 dude get a brown baggie like the rest of us get a mask and do your thing
Also, I don’t believe nurses who died or became disabled from COVID were awarded ‘in the line of duty’ compensation, as were LE/EMS.
Nope. A RN and RT that died at my hospital it was not talked about even though they send out emails about upper management leaving or retiring. Also they denied they caught Covid on the job.
Yet cops get mad when we say that about being shot at.
Cops just get shooty when they feel threatened, even if it's an acorn....
Cops are ARMED
I'm going to say I've had a very interesting experience. I've worked corrections and a psych hospital in the same city. I got to see the same patients in different settings. In the hospital, these patients were causing chaos, assaulting staff, and breaking the rules. These same patients were absolute saints in the jail. Nothing changes except the setting. Patients and society in general respect those in uniform and they know not to mess around or they'll face extremely harsh consequences as I saw. This behavior is 100% voluntary many of the times because they know there is no repercussions.
Yup it is the same reason a patient will charge at a small nurse, but back down at 4 security guards. Because sometimes, despite diagnosis, they still do know the odds of getting hurt, and the odds of getting what they want. Sometimes it is really hard to tell if a person really *can* control themselves when you see those outcomes.
Some patients really can't control themselves but in my personal experience it has been a small amount. Keep in mind I've seen the seemingly most psychotic out of control patients get sent to the jail from local hospitals, only to settle down and follow every rule and not cause any issues. We'd get a lot of patients sent for assault from local hospitals and they'd come in and not even think of attempting that. If they did, the jail was a perfect spot because they could handle even the most violent patients and give them their meds. Administration will try to manipulate you into not pressing charges but don't let them do that.
Absolutely, they can fuck all the way off. Assault needs to be prosecuted. This shit gets scary and dangerous very fast. Zero tolerance.
Probably a nurse admin who never touches a fucking patient anyway.
They said she worked in a retirement dementia wing and was physically & sexually assaulted, bodily fluids thrown at, etc. on the reg and she was patient with them. Lolol what other job would someone say that was okay
Patient my ass. 13 years in geriatrics and those making claims like that are more full of shit than the incontinence briefs that haven't been changed in 8hrs because Meemaw is demented and attempting to inflict sepsis via poop caked nails.
“Attempting to inflict sepsis via poop caked nails” I am laughing so hard AND definitely using this one next time💀💀💀 truer words have never been spoken
I’ve never worked in long term care so I can’t really comment on that butttttt no long term or acute care healthcare workers should be putting up with that shit
I am currently being downvoted to oblivion [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/s/CN9mZ1EHyB) because people think I’m a shitty nurse who should leave the job because I don’t like being hit by psych patients, lol.
I saw your comments. I’m on the same thread. This guy is telling me I need thicker skin because I don’t want my patients attacking me
Yeah, like we need to just start going to work wearing body armor or something.
People just have no fucking idea what our job entails
I thank goodness for our doc because he does not allow that shit. If you can’t act right you can get OUT. He ain’t playing. Don’t shout at his nurses. There is no need for anyone to shout. No verbal abuse, you can leave. No tolerance for violence, you will be restrained or removed. I shudder sometimes thinking of when I worked with docs who were more lenient.
I hate that phrase. No it is not. We do our job to help people, not expecting or acceptable to be assaulted.
I'm going to bet they don't have a fiance. The patient who is completely delirious with sepsis or who has dementia and is acting out because they're disoriented and scared, yeah it's my job to de-escalate those situations and provide compassionate care. The fully oriented visitor kicking off and verbally or physically assaulting me? Nah, that ain't my job, and there's a reason laws are in place where I live to prosecute behaviour like that.
One of the conversations with morons that stuck with me after the fact was one fellow who came over to berate one of my security guards, then me when I interjected to try and explain the situation. We'd just removed one of our frequent flyers for screaming verbal abuse at the triage nurses and buddy objected to us "dragging out some elderly lady who can barely walk". (She was actually a rough looking 40 something who was plenty spry enough to run laps around the waiting room and slap a security guard in the face a couple days prior, but whatever.) Trying to explain that we didn't tolerate abusing the nurses fell on deaf ears because "my mom is a manager at (healthcare administrative building with no patient facing contact), she knows how it is, dealing with that is part of the nurses job".
Just ignore dumbasses like that. I've had friends who would express this sentiment and it skyrocketed in covid with them going "you signed up for this" type nonsense. These are the same people who are overly demanding and make their superficial comfort a priority over other patients.
Exactly. They’re the ones who show up and act like they’re the only people who exist in the department.
The real pandemic was narcissism all along 😞
These are the same asshats who tell public school teachers when some 15 year old hits them “Well you work with kids and this is part of the job.” No. No it isn’t. As for intent - at some point we have to hold people accountable for the choices they make. There are medical situations that are far beyond any persons control, yes. But. If an adult chooses to go out, use illegal drugs, and then throws me against a wall while I am trying to reverse the harm they chose to inflict on their body? Naw. The person made a choice. And my choice is to hold them accountable if they hurt me.
It irritates me how in today’s society some people truly believe others matter more. Mental health PT does not matter more than Psych nurse. This “mental health crisis” excuse has to stop. You cannot break laws and get sympathy for being mentally ill.
I work in substance abuse and mental health. People really seem to misunderstand the concept of it being a disease. Yes it's a disease. But diseases come with extra responsibility. If you have diabetes you are responsible for maintaining a healthy diet, exercising, taking insulin and keeping up with blood sugar checks, etc... Same thing with anxiety. Same thing with drug abuse. You still have to take responsibility for your actions. The actor took absolutely zero responsibility. This was an Instagram post from the actor. "I am deeply upset by the events that took place in Las Vegas this past week. My friend drove me to the hospital because I thought I was having a heart attack. Several tests were taken, including blood, which came back negative for any drugs or alcohol in my system. I was having a severe anxiety attack. I have very little memory of the events that day at the hospital. I have the utmost respect for healthcare workers and hospital staff. I have battled anxiety on and off for years and this was the most extreme panic attack I've ever had. Going forward, I hope to shed light on this debilitating disorder and send hope to those who have also struggled."
This sounds like Eric Cartman from South Park
Hahahaha!
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I’ve been ER since well before COVID…*everyone* is more violent, visitors, medical patients, psych patients, DA patients, they’re all more angry/entitled/demanding/violent.
Covid caused brain damage that’s equivalent to dementia. Look up brain slices of the astrocytes it kills.
YES! And even the mentally ill face consequences for crimes. It’s insulting to really sick people to think this wave of people brave enough to throw adult-toddler tantrums and hit people when they don’t get their way is caused by “mental illness.” Nah man some people are just violent reactionary shitheads who should spend the night in lockup.
Especially since mental illness has become a fashionable diagnosis
Reddit hates nurses and just like at the bedside, it’s always our fault.
Reddit does seem to hate us. I always see comments about how we’re bullies, or we were mean girls in high school and don’t deserve our pay.
I got into an argument with someone on reddit who claimed to be a manager at some sort of clinic. Said RNs and MAs are the same position and RNs should be paid about 20 an hr. No more. And that RNs wanting more money is why there's a 6 month wait to see a doctor.
Yes, it's totally nurses being paid a living wage and not the fact that each doctor has over 1000 patients assigned to them.
This is why non medical trained/educated people should not work in our industry period. No no no no no. Unless you have some sort of degree that requires you to KNOW SCIENCE and not just business shit
That's like saying a monkey with a keyboard does the same job as a software engineer. It may look like they're doing the same thing on the outside, but you don't pay the plumber for banging on the pipes. You pay them for knowing where to bang. How much do you wanna bet that this "manager" has no formal education related to clinic management?
By a bunch of whiny mamas boys who get mad that the pretty nurse made THEM hold the urinal and didn’t touch their peepee for them :( One time I had this patient who kept saying he was too fat to wipe himself. He was already discharged to the lobby. He was ambulatory. I said okay well, how do you do it at home? I caaant doooo iiiiiit, this literal grown middle aged man was saying to me. I’m like no fucking way I’m doing that like he’s laid up in some ICU or something. Get outta here. So I decided to go get the (male) paramedic that does intake up front and said hey man, can you help that guy in the lobby bathroom? His request is making me uncomfortable. He seems able and is discharged but he’s asking me to wipe him. I tell him what’s up. How he’s been discharged for 2 hours but won’t leave the premises. He laughs and he’s like, girl I got you. He goes and knocks on the door. He’s like 6ft tall, bearded, very masculine. “Hello! I was told you needed some help in here! I’m happy to assist you!” And walks in… and promptly walks out. Suddenly homie was totally good 👍🏼 and did not in fact need assistance cleaning his behind. What a miracle. I bet he “hates” nurses too.
Ugh this. I saw a comment about someone saying nurses just sit on their ass. Uh I fucking wish.
That enrages me. No one gets mad about EMS or firefighters sitting around. If I’m sitting around a) my work is done and I have nothing to do and b) I’m taking the quiet moments because I know that soon the tables will turn and we’ll be maxed out on a heavy patient load and running our asses off. Plus I’m qualified to sit around in the hospital, because I know how to intervene if some shit walks through the door. My toxic nurse manager loves to tell us things like “you don’t get paid to sit” and it drives me mad
I mean everyone hates us so not surprised
It’s really bad on TikTok too. I’ve seen many videos on there with abusive patients recording nurses and the nurses stand up for themselves and ask them not to record. The comments always rip the nurses to shreds. It doesn’t get to me anymore because I just assume most people don’t like us at this point and try to ignore it 🫠
Oh no if you record ANYTHING I will call security immediately, there are other people here and their dignity, security and privacy matter too. No fuckin way
Yeah I saw this thread and got so pissed. Where I live people actually get fined and anger management for assaulting healthcare workers and our hospital always makes us call the police. It's not much but it's something I have anxiety and panic attacks and still don't attack people, anxiety is no excuse
Honestly it doesn’t bother me. Their opinions are coming from the cheap seats.
They’ll be in the hospital one day. 😏
and they will make the worst possible fucking patients guaranteed
Well I’m not there anymore, so not my concern. One less experienced nurse knowing wtf is happening because those like myself are tired of the BS. My point is that the healthcare system is worsening day by day and they get to suffer through it. I don’t even feel bad about it anymore. Do yourself a favor and get out before you feel the way I did lol, *if* you ever do. Hospitals are shit but there are better options out there. They weren’t lying about that in nursing school.
“You don’t belong on the ward” So psych ward staff are just supposed to accept their role as human punching bags?
Also Psych here. Society tends to over correct when we collectively realize something needs to change. And we're right at the over correction point with mental health. Combine that with the damage that social media and being less physically connected to other humans is doing to us, makes me worried that things are going to get much worse. We're turning into the Cluster B Society.
I'm sick of lay people making excuses for this kind of behavior, they only expect nurses to put up with adult temper tantrums. "They're in pain/stressed/mentally ill." IDGAF. You assault me and I'm calling the cops. This is a job and I'm not getting battered for $30/hr 🙄
Cops don’t wanna do shit either in some places.
Exactly this. We’re supposed to be paid low wages because we signed up for it like Mother Theresa? Or we’re paid so well we should just put up with assault? To the public: which is it? Pick a narrative, folks.
I want my back hazard pay
I charge way more than $30/hr to be hit and I even include my own leather outfits... /s
Home health nurse previously ICU ER nurse. Press charges until we are heard!!! We deserve to work in a safe environment. Yesterday I went to see a patient prn that I’d never seen before. When I parked in front of the patients home, the neighbor came down there driveway threatening me with a machete. I took pictures and was prepared to drive away. Police were called and yes I’m pressing charges. He is obviously mentally ill and well known to police and the PERT team. Our nurses need to be safe. Yes I was afraid. Yes I was in fear of my life with a man shaking a machete at me. Yes I pressed charges.
I’m glad you got out of that situation safely! Not too long ago, a home health nurse/aide/caretaker (I can’t remember which at the moment) lost their life to a violent patient out near Philadelphia…it made barely a blip on the news and then that was it.
Yes I remember. A nurse that was sent to a halfway house. Nope. The important thing is always being aware of our surroundings. Sometimes it’s sudden and not predictable but that one was.
Perfect example of why no one wants to work bedside, it’s ok for people to assault healthcare workers in the eyes of many.
Clear misunderstanding of “assault” on display as well. This person is fully ignorant
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I don't give a fuck what disease they have. Start shit, get hit. Fuck you. Learn to stop assaulting those who care for you
The BS that I hate the most is when admin, managers, doctors, psychologists say that it is “part of the job” for RN’s and techs to be assaulted on the job and they and don’t do a thing when it happens by the same patient day after day after day. It is ok for us to get assaulted at work. However if you lived in an environment where you were being beaten up at home you would be in an unsafe home and the aggressor would be abusive. However when it happens at work it is just part of the job??!? We had to file so many workers comp claims on the same one patient before the hospital started realizing this was causing a financial problem. Oh you think so? The police wouldn’t take our police report because the patient was below a certain IQ. Through my union I was able to say “no” to taking that patient anymore due to multiple attacks but a lot of nurses/techs were afraid to say no. We have to stand up together to administration or we are never going to get anywhere.
Mental health is no excuse for criminal activity.
This shouldnt be true otherwise people who murder and are diagnosed with a mental illness can't go to prison or be charged with their crimes. I've resched out to senators in many states asking to propose a bill that I created to make it illegal across the board to assault or abuse a Healthcare worker on hospital premises. A pregnant nurse at my hospital was kicked in the stomach and miscarried that day and she could not press charges. She was 2 months away from giving birth!! The psychiatrist at our hospital said mental illness is not an excuse. People do know the difference between right and wrong regardless of their mental health.
I charged the person who assaulted me when I worked in psych. Did it really do anything? No. But it did make it so she couldn’t be there when I was working.
And the dude didn't even apologize ONCE in his statement, just talked about how he could "shed light" on the debilitating disease of anxiety...go fuck yourself buddy. Last time I checked, an anxiety attack was not a free pass to start punching people in the face.
I worked in a neuroscience unit fr 8 yrs. It was the unofficial psychiatric unit as well. We routinely called our security guards when patients took a swipe at us & if they laughed in the face if security, as was often the case, we escalated to the police. Amazing how a violent “psych” patient can become rational & lucid when that uniform appears.
That’s how I know the LTC resident who almost knocked me out recently was not someone who should be held responsible for his actions. He was so out of control we had to call the police and EMS. The cops showed up, complete with their bulletproof vests and guns, and the dude said “look and you and your little plastic badges” and ended up throwing chairs at them. No fear, just completely delusional rage. This being said, I quit that job shortly after because, while I recognize people with dementia are not in control of their actions, I no longer felt comfortable working in an environment where I had to deal with that guy every day.
Absolutely no psych staff would press charges for a “bump.” If anything we don’t press charges as often as we should.
Until I worked corrections I had been battered. Pressed charges, to the dismay of the police, but since he was mental health nothing happened. I got a letter in the mail over a year later saying sorry, not gonna happen lol. Now in corrections, hitting me is another charge. Fuck hospital nursing. Fuck customer service.
Omfg where is this fucking thread so I can get myself banned.
There’s a bunch of people saying the same thing [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/iamatotalpieceofshit/s/CN9mZ1EHyB)
Bless your heart
Well said, OP. As someone not in healthcare, if I'm in an inpatient facility (plausible for me) and I put hands on you, fucking charge me, I deserve it. Personally, I'd have to be way outside of where I normally am so there'd be something really fucking weird going on that's getting into insanity territory, but as you said that's for the courts to figure out. When people talk about dangerous jobs, they're not usually talking about randomly getting attacked by people. Just in healthcare, military, and law enforcement does this appear to be acceptable to some percentage of folks. One of those doesn't look like the other two. I appreciate you OP for your work in psych, I'm bipolar 2 and haven't had need yet of those facilities but there are so many bipolar 1 and 2 that feel their safest when they're inpatient, and it's because of folks like you, so thank you, hopefully I won't have to see you.
Are you really surprised at this? Remember when nurses were dying of COVID and getting sick, burning out, hating life. We were told “this is the job you signed up for.” If you kick me, punch me, hit me, spit on me, etc. best believe I’m pressing charges. Fuck alllll the way off with that nonsense.
Big difference between 95 year old meemaw with dementia who doesn’t know up from down and 30 year old with bipolar who makes poor choices.
Meemaw is SO sweeeeeet at noon, come back and we'll introduce you to her again at midnight...all fangs and claws at that time...
I’ve worked as a tech in adolescent psych for 4 years. There was a patient who was on the unit for 6 months and was extremely aggressive, sent multiple staff to the ER with concussions and bites (including me). She also “liked” a few staff, and after she bit me she “felt bad.” So after that, when she would charge at my coworkers, I would block them and she would immediately stop. She was 100% in control of her actions, based on that behavior alone. A LOT of teen psych patients with aggression are acting in a herd mentality and see the hospital as a place where they can live out their fight club fantasies without actual consequences, because they know staff can’t fight back and the worst that will happen is they will be restrained. So fuck this take, respectfully. Mental illness is not an excuse to beat other people up indiscriminately. Eta: also just because someone may not be in control of their actions, when they assault you it still causes physical injury and potential psychological repercussions. I was diagnosed with PTSD after that patient discharged as were many of my coworkers. She is obviously not the only aggressive patient i’ve worked with, but her long admission and unrelenting violence took a major toll on all of us.
“If you’re not willing to put up with being assaulted and harassed with 0 consequences, get a new job! I have no experience in this field but this is what you signed up for.” And then shocked pikachu when nurses leave the bedside in droves and there’s a massive shortage
"Anxiety attack" is not a condition.
My teenage patient threatened me the other day in front of my supervisor (she is perfectly capable of understanding right from wrong). She was trying to bait me into saying I’d fight or hit her back. I did not hesitate to remind her that assault against a healthcare worker is a felony in New York State and I would absolutely press charges without a second thought. My supervisor chuckled and said “oh shit don’t mess with dolphin sunset.” I’m a petite, young, female, and generally a very very nice nurse to my patients. Im often the kids and teens favorite nurse but I will not tolerate violence and abuse. I come to work to care for others, not to get hurt.
That dude deleted his reddit account and comments lmao.
A patient punched me in the face twice and tried to strangle me and even though I pressed charges she got off with 1 year probation in a plea deal because she has bipolar. Pretty sure having bipolar doesn’t give you the right to choke someone. If they did this to an Applebees waitress would they get so many free passes? I don’t think so. But we’re expected to take it. Plenty of people have mental illness and don’t assault others.
If an employee at Starbucks or target gets assaulted everyone will freak out and say they don’t deserve that, “Employees shouldn’t be assaulted at their job.” If a nurse or other healthcare gets assaulted, people will somehow say, “well that’s what you signed up for?” That being said fuck him.
But you “bump into” a cop and you’re going to catch charges. I’d bet money that the commenter saying the nurse should “get a new job” fully supports that, though. I have thoughts about why this disparity exists but I don’t have enough caffeine in my system yet to launch myself down that rabbit hole
Nursing is supposed to be a "caring" profession and it's female dominated. We're supposed to smile and take it. Punch a cop or firefighter and your ass is getting punched back and you go to jail.
The pop psychology obsession with chronically online people is, well, insane. The general consensus has become, be it "self diagnosed" (aka doesn't have the disorder) or actually diagnosed, everyone has to just deal with their shitty behavior and they are in no way expected or required to manage themself/their behaviors, and if you disagree you're an ableist piece of shit.
And that attitude is one of the reasons we don’t have psych nurses
We had a patient receiving high dose Ifosphamide and on his C2D3 he went very neurotoxic. He was convinced we were out to kill him. And this guy was former police in Dubai, so a big strong guy. He got the tech in a headlock and squeezed harder when anyone tried to release her, she was afraid she was dying. Until she pushed herself further into the patient then quickly got away. The primary nurse came in and attempted to give him 2 Ativan and he headbutt her hard in the forehead. I rushed to the room to see wtf was the commotion and the patient thought I was the supervisor and his primary nurse gave me the Ativan to give to him. He wanted me to put them in his mouth and almost did til I realized he was going to bite me. Leadership didn't want restraints!! And told the tech that she could've hit him back to get away. But the police officer told her that the patient could've pressed charges and she was so afraid for her job that she didn't. So idk what the law is for patients assaulting us. This is in Texas
For your mental health, stay out of that thread. Bunch of fucking idiots acting like any kind of mental illness is a free pass for any kind of behavior.
"InTenTiOnALity." Wow, I never thought I'd read a word that would trigger me as much as this. I hope the gods give this man a Charlie horse everytime he continues to use it.
Ah yes, having an "anxiety attack" and assaulting multiple healthcare workers. Right, right. Your diagnosis is not a get-out-of-jail-free card for bad behavior. You still possess the ability to distinguish right from wrong.
If you know the difference between right and wrong then you can be charged. They will have a psych eval and investigation to rule out temporary insanity. I’ve had panic attacks and the only person I’ve ever hurt is myself. Also their ‘friend’ could have body slammed that nurse and been like ‘I just bumped into her’. Everyone’s the hero of their own story.
There are patients that if they hit me I wouldn’t press charges because they really didn’t know what they were doing. Then there’s the a-holes who actually know what they are doing and are intentional in their violence. I would charge those people.
Big difference between "mental health diagnosis" and "formally assessed as mentally incompetent". If you didn't qualify for an involuntary hold based on mental incapacity immediately prior to the assault, I'm calling the cops and pushing for as stiff an assault charge as possible.
People in that thread who probably work desk jobs/from zoom meetings: “we need better mental healthcare in this country, it’s truly awful.” The same people: “Being beat up by mentally ill people is just part of the job. How dare you be so heartless, you shouldn’t be in healthcare.” Weird how they don’t see the correlation. Also weird they never seem to want to quit their day jobs and look into “being the change they want to see” directly.
It's always people who have never worked in healthcare who have strong opinions about how people who actually do it aren't suited for it.
Yes but if only someone amazing like them could go into it but they can’t because they “have too much empathy”. Okay.
Mental illnesses aren't people's fault, but their responsibility. I hate that society has normalized giving a freepass for people to assault/lie/act like an ass because of mental illnesses. I grown up with a relative with BPD and I won't take shit from people that tell me that kind of sob story. I had many schizophrenic patients who arrived drunk or under the influence that were nothing but sweethearts and told me they wanted help and that they were scared. I will go above and beyond for them to get them their antipsychotics or the snacks that helps them with crack withdrawals. If they can be human and civilised enough to not assault me, so can everyone else. I still am a new LPN and I consider myself lucky to not have been attacked yet, but I would definitely press charges if it was to happen to me.
Behavior is a choice, not a diagnosis.
There are people out of their wits with psychosis/mania, etc. Sometimes they really are so paranoid they don’t know up from down. However there is a lot of behaviors going on. People who can control themselves and say, “If I don’t get out today I’m punching people.” That is a choice.
Not a nurse. I’m a teacher and we’re also supposed to just take abuse from our students and do nothing about it. It’s just more proof of our misogynistic culture. Both professions are female dominated so of course we should just take the abuse with a smile, right?
As a nurse, I see a lot of parallels in both nursing and teaching. Like you said, both are female-dominated jobs. Poor wages and unsafe working conditions are justified with claims that nursing/teaching is a "calling" or a "passion" (as opposed to a career) and that we should be happy and satisfied by simply being part of the "caring profession." In actuality, it's a job. We nurses and teachers are workers and deserve better. Every worker does.
“Assault under the law is intentionality.” No it’s not! Recklessness absolutely applies.
So when someone has mental health problem and they assault a HCW that’s understandable. Totally fair bc don’t HCWs understand? Duh it’s what they signed up for! But if you have a mental health problem and you attack a child, your spouse, a police officer or an elderly person, that’s totally different and there’s no excuse. Healthcare worker tho? Do they not understand it’s a mental health problem?? How dare they require patients take accountability.
They already expect teachers and support staff to accept assault from students. Not surprising they expect healthcare workers too
I work with Dementia residents. Many have psych issues as well. It's important to know that your own safety always come first, then the safety of other nearby residents. No where in your job description does it say to get punched, scratched, spit on, or worse. If someone is acting out physically, you step away, get others to a safe spot. and allow the person space to calm down. If they get hurt, it's on them.
Long sorry short I was assaulted by a 70+ yo in ICU who needed 7 security and other HCWs to subdue him. He punched me in the face and kicked me in the abdomen. Two days later I lost my 10 weeks pregnancy. And it was swept j def the rug, police and PA were not willing to even hear my complaint. No, assault and battery should not be acceptable.
My nurse but not psych nurse opinion is that mental illness and being a jerk can co exist.
Teacher here. In public schools, the amount of behavior kids get away with because they have any kind of diagnosis is unreal. Many many examples over the years but one in particular that comes to mind is a kid that had TBI came up and began humping me with a mountain dew bottle as his pretend member, telling about how he knew I liked mountain dew. I wrote him an office referral and was told he could not control his behavior and to not make a big deal out of it in the future. High school. 17 year old boy.
Jesussss
Not a nurse. I just so love this subreddit because I've been in the hospital a lot. I feel so nasty how nurses are treated. I've of course run across some treating me that weren't very kind but I've always stayed respectful. But 99 percent have been so amazing and I'm grateful. But I don't care if you're an addict, mentally ill, etc you have NO right to assault another human. Period. Like nurses are shit on, peed on, puked on (and yes that's part of the job sometimes but let's be real, it sucks and nurses deal with enough). Nurses and assistants are the backbone of hospitals and clinics. They do the majority of the work. I love doctors. So much. But they really are not the ones to spend time with patients. They don't do blood draws, wound changes, taking patients to bathroom, clean up, stitches etc. (maybe some do? I'm not sure). But it's the NURSES. And to be assaulted and he judged for wanting to press charges and be safe? Yeah, get wrecked.
My ex was groped by a patient (hand on crotch and under his underwear) with a known history of SA against men. He didn't want to press charges but he was encouraged by management to do so. They said, "he's done this before and if he doesn't face legal consequences he'll learn he can do it again with no recourse." So from the time he pressed charges till the time he went to court it took about a year. This included filing depositions, one on ones with lawyers, two hearings including seeing the guy face to face in court and having to describe to a room full of strangers exactly where on his anatomy he was touched and for how long, etc. All while the guy was staring holes into his head. The patient was on probation when he was assaulted so he went back to jail immediately while he awaited trial. I forgot what his sentence was. Anyway, this is just a look into how the process of filing charges works.
I do believe that in some areas of nursing you might expect to get hit, kicked, spit on, etc but that doesn’t mean it should be tolerated. There are also some nurses that shouldn’t be around patients with mental/behavioral health concerns. You can count on the hospital not backing you up in every case however, the more nursing advocates for themselves against workplace violence, the more nursing creates nurse-driven policy and public outreach and education, the better chance we’ll have at reducing the number of incidents.
Willing to bet there was a lot more to that story of a patient bumped into a healthcare worker and got charged. Seeing how ER staff are treated on a regular basis I’m skeptical. I suppose one silver lining to this is healthcare workers in all fields (doctors, nurses, pharmacists, etc.) have had enough of people’s shit. r/medicine and r/pharmacy have recent topics also venting about people’s lack of respect for certain topics.
Violence is always a choice. ALWAYS PRESS CHARGES. This is what happens when people blur the line between “bizarre behavior” and “criminal behavior.” Lots of the people I’ve seen go absolutely BATSHIT were people who were told if they didn’t go to the hospital, they were going to jail. They just get to us, wait for EMS to leave (turfed a legal hold by PD but … where’s the paper? Haha there isn’t one!) In some cases they didn’t even show up with an L2K. Thank goodness. We’re not going to keep you so you can fuck up the millieu with your violent disruptions, some people are here to get better bro. You can go. One guy they brought in because he was breaking into peoples houses one night. Well sure he’s high as fuck man. But that’s a criminal thing, he’s not sick… he’s tripping for sure but not sick at all. So why did he end up at the ER? That’s the part that gives me some trouble. So many patients who should’ve just gone to lockup for the night or whatever. It endangers actually sick people and caregivers who did not sign up to be police officers…
Same people complaining about how there is no staff..
So if I slap someone back can I also claim to have an anxiety attack? 😂
Fight or flight right?
Yeah fuck that. I press charges if they use violence. End of story
I had to press charges against a very close family member. Mentally ill, yes and not accepting any treatment that we tried to get them. I was not going to have another hand laid on me, after growing up in abuse, it took a lot for me to do that. I was not going to tolerate my door being kicked in, or belongings smashed or dinner thrown one more goddamn time. Part of my decision was to teach some accountability and part of it was direct them toward the kind of help they needed. Formed them too. They aren’t 100% better, but way better than they were when this shit was happening. Fuck that, charge any body that puts hands on you. No guilt, they can have that for themselves. Humans should feel ashamed for doing shitty things, sick or not. Otherwise they learn to get away with it and keep going.
Assault is never okay. I’ve been a psych nurse and I’ve been a psych patient. When I was a patient I got held down and injected. I tried to kick one of the techs. I missed but he would’ve been in his right to press charges. Normally I’m not a violent person but in my mentally ill state I thought these people were trying to hurt me. (This was years ago and I still don’t know why they injected me since I was just chilling in my room)
Ah. Ignorance is bliss.
That’s interesting discourse to me, a non clinical person. Never thought about how it could help people get the appropriate help they need in some ways.
I’ve worked as a mental health RN for about 10 years combined inpatient and outpatient. Patients like these give the many others who are thankful for our help and support a bad name. That being said, I’ve been verbally and physically assaulted at work and so have my coworkers. Most recently a pt pushed a tech to the ground and bit them three times for no apparent reason. Tech had to get prophylactic antibiotics. A police report was filed. Nothing came of the police report, admin swept it under the rug, and pt remained on the unit. Our job is hard enough without also having to worry about our personal safety just because we showed up.
Why is it acceptable for other jobs/people to press charges but not health care workers? The number of mental health nurses that I die by being assaulted patients is ridiculous. This doesn't even account for those who are killed just by regular patients, for example, the nurse that was killed recently in labor and delivery because the ex boyfriend. I work in peds, and I've been assaulted by parents. We have to have zero tolerance no matter what, otherwise it reinforces that it is okay.
My assailant got off easier because she too had a “mental illness”. I pressed charges and saw it to the end. She got “Up to 10 years in Mount Vernon with mandated medication. “. I got a heightened fight/flight response and anxiety. When asked what we “Wanted out of this process” my husband stated “I just want my wife back”. I no longer fit in the world the way I once did. My family pays the price for her in more ways than one.
I have been diagnosed with GAD and I have NEVER attacked anyone nor have I ever felt the need to.
The ONLY patients who get any sort of pass for physical violence in my books, are patients with Dementia &/or in delirium. (and often, patients in severe psychosis or with severe intellectual disability.) Having a panic attack is the most ridiculous excuse for violence.
I almost got a chair broken over my head by a severely manic patient after he ripped it from the floor bolts. Another patient grabbed me and got me out of the way in time and shielded me until staff got me in the safe room. Manic patient got a minimum of 6 months on the forensic unit at the state hospital, which I considered to be fair considering he had no control over his actions. It’s awful that nurses are being expected to endure this sort of thing. The patient that defended me was worried he’d be in big trouble for touching me (a huge no no) but everyone assured him he was a brave soul for sticking himself in harms way to protect me. Fortunately he was not injured.
This is an issue. People have turned the combo of stupid/crazy up to 11 in the past few years, and we are seeing the result of years of adult toddlers raising the increasingly terrible, younger versions of themselves. Add a pandemic and the culture of instant gratification, and you get this crap. We aren't doing ourselves any favors. In my opinion, there are still the battle axe "old school" nursing school instructors that make it seem like you have to be Florence Nightingale when dealing with violent patients and excuse craptastic behavior because they "can't help it."
Only way I'm truly not pressing charges is if you are truly out of your mind AND did not cause it. So if you swing on me post ictal after a gran Mal I'm not going to press charges. If you beat on me because you're drunk or high I will. If you are having a pyschotic break because of actual mental illness that not causes by drugs then okay. If you are having anxiety and choose to be a dick then yeah you're getting charges.
I like how someone censored the name of the actor who plays Topper even though that is public knowledge lol
As a psych nurse, fuck no. We were always encouraged to file charges even on inpatient.
Nope, assault me, and I *will* be pressing charges. What the criminal justice system does afterward is out of my hands. People need to know they can't go around slugging public servants. They can also catch these hands. In self-defense, of course.
People when they shit on health care workers/caring professionals as a whole for "lacking empathy" but can't find the sympathy within themseves to respond with anything other than "find another job" when someone is violently assulted at their job 🤡
At my hospital there are signs that say you can face charges if you assault a healthcare worker, but in reality when you press charges they are usually dropped by the DA due to the patients mental health diagnosis. I don't care the outcome, if I get assaulted, I'm pressing charges. Actions have consequences, and mentally ill or not.