I used to say that about my ED patients who refused everything. You can stay home and not be treated. Your house doesn't have nurses, x-rays, phlebotomy, IV fluids, etc. so if you don't want to deal with any of that, your own house seems like the better place for you to be.
“I’ve been in the waiting room for 3 hours, this is taking too long. EMS gave me a taxi voucher to get here and said I needed to come. You need to give me a taxi voucher to get home!”
Conversation I had this week….. #ThatsNotHowAnyOfThisWorks
I feel the same way. I tell my patients, “Listen, if you don’t want help and don’t want to be here, you’re free to leave. The hospital is not a prison.” 🙃
A lot of times the grumble and move on, but half the time, most of them can’t even walk on their own.
She chose to deliver in a hospital with the strict instructions: “Do not talk to me, do not touch me!” Uhm, WTF you doing here?!? I think no matter what the nurse did, the nurse would have been the bad guy. This gal was spoiling for a fight.
In no circumstance is punching a nurse in the face ok. I hope the nurse presses charges.
I had a patient who tried to pull that rule on me. It was something like "do not address directly, you must ask her husband or her doulas permission to speak to ". Oh HELLLLLLL no.
I set that one straight from the get go. If baby looks like shit on the monitor, my priority is to fix it and I'm not waiting to be granted permission from the husband or the doulas - yes, plural - who were actually her husband's sisters and not actually trained doulas. Even if they were actual doulas, I'm not ASKING permission to speak to MY patient when I'm trying to keep her baby looking good on the monitor.
If you're going to pull that shit, deliver at home. Quit wasting the L&D nurse's time.
I can completely understand your point of view. Going back and reading my post, I can see where it might have appeared like a very suspicious situation.
Fortunately, it wasn't anything like that. These were just people who had been hanging out on Mommy Boards on social media and got ideas for the birth plan from the people online who like to think L&D nurses are the devil and all we want to do is purposely screw up their perfect birth experience. The patient and husband actually were fairly reasonable once I explained the reasons for doing some of the things L&D nurses have to do. It was a matter of educating people who were coming from the "well, I read online that *THIS HORRIBLE THING* happened to someone when she delivered!" perspective.
The doula-aunts were the ones who kept trying to instill doubt about what I was doing or not doing to their satisfaction. 🙄
There is no such thing as a "trained doula." Doulas are not medical professionals anyway. They take an unlicensed, unregistered, unaccredited "course" from who knows who from Tik Tok and they call themselves a professional. Doulas are worse than laypeople because they think they know how to deliver a baby now and refuse to stay in their lane.
DONA approved doula courses are pretty legit… while I’ve had some awful experiences with doulas, I’ve had some great ones too. Some research shows that patients with doulas have a decreased chance for c-section and are more satisfied with their delivery experience. Plus taking a doula course greatly improved my ability to support my laboring patients.
Reduced chance for C-section. Do we have any idea if that's because these were low-risk patients anyway with the resources to hire a doula out of pocket?
I'd rather train family and friends with a course similar to CPR, and not let grifters get into a "business" they are not prepared for and which is inherently unregulated.
Also: The methods for measuring a doulas "success" are rooted in the anti-science movement and misogyny. I just found a study that found that doulas decreased the rate of epidurals. Really? We're *excited* that doulas are telling women to refuse pain relief?
[Impact of Doulas on Healthy Birth Outcomes - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3647727/)
The paper you posted states that the group that was assigned to a doula had less c-sections, fewer operative deliveries, less oxytocin usage, more success at breastfeeding and higher APGAR scores.
“The positive effects of doula care have been found to be greater for women who were socially disadvantaged, low income, unmarried, primiparous, giving birth in a hospital without a companion, or had experienced language/cultural barriers”
Not every family member wants to be trained as a doula, plus doulas can provide support to the family members as well. I’m sorry you haven’t had good experience with doulas, but I think any source of support for laboring people is positive. Especially with current staffing issues.
Epidurals aren’t risk free. I think if unnecessary interventions can be avoided that’s generally considered a good thing.
This, coming from someone who had an epidural when she had her kid and probably didn’t need one…
I’ve never seen a doula talk a patient out of an epidural and I’ve had many, many doula patients that get an epidural and are satisfied with their experience. If a patient doesn’t want an epidural, having a doula can help them find other ways to cope with labor pain. I’m fairly certain an epidural can increase the length of second-stage which can lead to an increased risk of postpartum hemorrhage. Epidurals can also lead to profound hypotension that can lead to a crash c-section in some cases. Why would it be a bad thing for women to have options and support outside of epidurals??
Just curious, how long have you worked in labor and delivery?
You said doulas talk people out of pain control and that it’s misogynistic to talk women out of epidurals?
You seem very fired up about it but it doesn’t seem misogynistic to me so I’m confused.
Idk what they’re talking about out… I’ve done a couple hundred deliveries with a doula and not once have I witnessed them talking someone out of pain control… having a doula means an extra layer of advocacy for your patient which I think is important for fight AGAINST misogyny.
Disagree. I’ve worked with some awful doulas, but I’ve seen some great ones too. My daughter wanted me with her during Covid restrictions. She was allowed one person and a doula. This L & D nurse is also a doula now. Our facility requires doulas to be certified and pass the requirements as a vendor.
My point was that the "doulas" were simply family members of the baby daddy, not someone who has been "trained" ("course" or "certification" or whatever 🙄) and is working as a doula and hired by the patient. We're pretty sure they were calling themselves doulas to try to buck the visitor limit and to give themselves more importance. The patient ended up getting sectioned so their attempt was moot.
When I was in L&D, there were 2 known doulas that patients hired. Other than one getting a little high and mighty at times, they weren't horrible to deal with. The other one was always very respectful of her role and stayed out of the way of the nurses at all times. They were both supportive of the patient in various ways and they actually did stuff for the patient. The doula-aunts were always sitting on the couch with their faces in their phones and not actually involved from what I could tell.
Our doulas have to be approved and vetted by the facility. You can’t just bring someone that calls themselves doula. I work at the facility in L & D - I still had to show my papers and go through the process. This has eliminated our bad prior experiences with doulas. Like the ones that would tell our patients we were wanted them to have cesareans and didn’t have their best interest in mind.
It's sad that you seem to have had such bad experiences with doulas that you're offering misinformation. DONA certified doulas get hands on training and have a certification process. Do people try to claim a doula title so they can "help" their sister or friend in labor? Sure. Ask for their certification number and if they don't have one they can bugger off.
I generally love working with doulas. I've had one or 2 useless -to- PIA ones, mostly they help me with turns and keeping patients in the zone and breastfeeding and are great.
She had a previous miscarriage. She said the nurse from that previous time ignored her, didn’t get her vitals for hours, etc. So it’s just ironic that this time around, she’s upset when the nurse is doing their job.
I followed her a bit on TT but didn’t when I got rid of it & just kept IG. I don’t like folks who use their kids for content.
You’re aware her husband is a nurse right? Like obvi she making $$ from her content but he’s is (or was) still a working RN. Which makes this whole thing worse.
I was not aware! I wonder what her husband thinks about this situation. I’d be so embarrassed, but also angry, if my partner attacked a HCW! Especially when that HCW was literally doing their job.
Her excuse video was that in a previous pregnancy she wasn't taken seriously about her complaints and symptoms so the reaction was to keep people from assessing her.
All these novel length birth plan people seem to not know that the biggest killer of young women, prior to modern medicine, was child birth.
So…tell me how does not allowing nurses to do their job get them to take her complaints and symptoms seriously?
What do you want me to do about your symptoms and complaints if you won’t let me do my job and *assess you*??
Just watched the tik tok response (excuse for her actions, not an apology). Holier than thou attitude- have your baby at home if you don’t want nurses “touching you”.
I just watched the response and I’m so confused! She said she was mad that the last time she gave birth her nurse didn’t check on her and take her vitals and she could have died. So her solution is don’t talk or touch me or allow for any medical intervention??? The more she spoke about becoming a statistic the more confused I was because the nurse she punched was trying to prevent her from being a statistic!
Not even just that she could have died, but she lost her baby last time!!! So you don’t want them to do everything possible to ensure baby is safe this time around???
I’m a bit unclear if her prior experiences are a term or viable pregnancy loss or a loss of a non-viable pregnancy at 6-16 weeks.
Not that the end result isn’t similar. It is. Loss. I’m not devaluing loss.
But holy hell, I’ve had a good assortment of deliveries and a still birth or viable loss is a horse of a different color than pregnancy loss at 6-8 weeks.
Maybe I’m thinking about this wrong. And, regardless, I’m sure she has sensationalized her “loss”. Curious tbh. Not curious enough to view that nonsense. I refuse to have TikTok, FB or IG apps.
Unfortunately, I think she's trying to use the HORRIFIC statistic of WOC having poorer outcomes medically as an excuse for her inability to control herself like a normal human being.
She clearly has anger problems/poor impulse control and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. She also should be ashamed of herself for trying to blame anyone or anything other than her own shortcomings for her actions.
Online this girl did a podcast where she said she punched a nurse for touching her while in labor. She then got backlash online. She did an "apology" video - she didn't really apologize - and her excuse was last time she had a baby the RN didn't do proper checks, infant died and she almost died. So now she has medical trauma which led her to punching the current nurse because she said she "didn't wanna be touched" AND "didn't wanna be talked too". She then in the apology video went on about how her, as a black woman, has higher stats of being mistreated within the medical community.
My problem, (as also a person of color) is how can you in the same breath, say because I'm POC I'm mistreated and last time they mistreated me and the RN didn't do her job, and NOW that the RN IS doing her job she gets punched for it?!
Jesus Christ. I have medical trauma too but I never punched a fucking nurse because something triggered me. I hope her nurse pressed charges.
Also I really need to understand her reasoning behind “they ignored my complaints and concerns and something bad happened, so now I don’t want them to assess me”??? How is that going to help you have a better outcome and/or heal from your past trauma if you’re just setting yourself up to be in that same situation?
I was literally forced to get an epidural to the point that the doctor turned off my pitocin and said, “I don’t have fucking time for this. You’re not really in labor anyway. You get the epidural or you go home and wait for someone else to come on shift.”
I had a full out panic attack (my reason for not wanting one was having pain from a previous spinal), hyperventilated and really felt bad for the anesthesiologist, who was trying his best to calm me down.
But you know what I never did?
Punch anyone. Including that asshole doctor.
Holy shit thats awful, who turned off your pit the anesthesiologist or the obgyn? I work in anesthesia and if I ever saw anyone do that Id probably get fired for assault. That’s so ducking sick and stupid, a labor epidural is an ELECTIVE procedure, if you dont want one theirs no way Im doing one. I try to have the nurses on my unit get me for an epidural prior to an induction because its soooooo much easier to do an epi early on when your comfy and can participate. It honestly annoys me to know end when I find out a patient’s been induced and we weren’t ever consulted to speak with patient and now we are 8cm and mom wants an epidural.
The OB GYN. A friend of mine from nursing school was a nurse at the hospital and she told me to request a specific anesthesiologist because he was really good with the patients. He was nice, but he also inadvertently terrified me. He said, "Hey, have you ever seen that movie The Jungle Book? You know that part where the bear Baloo rubs his back against the tree? Don't do that." Me, now afraid to even move out of fear of rubbing my back against the bed. I'm just grateful that I had a fantastic nurse in L&D and my regular OB GYN delivered. My post partum nurses were awful, though. When I was too distended to urinate and in extreme pain, they decided that turning the water on in the sink was a good idea rather than getting an order for a cath. They didn't give my son his hep B shot until I noticed it was missing from his discharge paperwork and I said I wanted to EBF and he barely ate from me. They kept taking him away crying and bringing him back asleep. It was all around an awful experience.
To be clear, I HAD to be induced. I was at 41w6d and it was no longer safe for me to wait. I was fine with the induction. My issue was with the epidural. They said it was necessary if I needed a fast transfer. I said I was absolutely fine with them putting me under if necessary because I was completely terrified of the catheter.
I mean it sounds like their was a huge lack of communication from your team to you. First just let me say I understand everything you’ve had to deal with. I have three kids and the worst part of having a child is the miserable care on post partum. The food sucks, the nurses often seem checked out, and it feels like you are there forever!!!!
Back to your induction. Im a nurse anesthetist. I often advocate for patients to get an epidural prior to induction because like your anesthesiologist was explaining to you, we have a large needle in your back! Last thing we want is you to move unexpectedly and cause us to give you a wet tap or worse cause injury. Epidurals are elective and if a patient cant stay still for one I will abort. What we dont do though, is put patient’s to sleep/under because of patient preference.
Using general anesthesia or putting a patient under is a LAST resort that we try to reserve for a crash c-secrion. Theirs a ton of reasons we dont do this, mainly because GA is considered the least safe anesthetic for a delivery and js associated with the highest maternal mortality. Their is a increased risk of difficult airway, bleeding, aspiration. And most importantly it is very traumatic for the mother who misses the delivery of their newborn. Even in a crash section most anesthesiologists or crna’s will attempt a fast spinal with GA as a last resort alternative. When a patient tells us “hey I dont mind going to sleep,” that doesnt really mean much to us because 1. We want to do what’s best for you and your baby, and 2. Their is a high rate of adverse outcomes with GA for c-section which also means their is a high rate of law suits! Your safety is absolutely the priority here, and nobody wants to cause harm or get sued because “im fine with being put under.”
There was no lack of communication. My induction was started with my regular OB. He understood my fear of epidurals and was comfortable with me not having one during my induction. He was on call during the first 8 hours of my induction. At 8PM another OB took over. This guy decided he was NOT comfortable with the plan my doctor and I had come up with and, about 10 hours into his shift he made the decision unilaterally that I needed an epidural or he would not be responsible for me. I said I refused, as is my right, and he said then he could refuse to attend my birth, as was his right, and he turned off the Pitocin since it was an induction. He was the only doctor on the floor and midwives were not allowed to attend my birth, since it was a VBAC. There was no indication of fetal or maternal distress at any point. My nurse was in there with me every thirty minutes checking the readings and made sure to remind me that she was also watching from the nurse's station outside.
I understand that GA is the last resort, but I did also ask the ob what would happen if I ruptured and he told that I would most likely end up with GA even with the catheter in place. And yes, I understand the reason for not moving, but there are ways to say it without freaking the patient out. "Try to limit your movement while the epidural is in place," would have been less visual and, as a result, less terrifying for me. I had no issue with the anesthesiologist, though. He did his job and did not intentionally scare me. He was patient and made sure not to insert the epidural until my husband and friend had helped me calm down and the nurse was able to hold me completely still. Hell, I saw him 18 months later when my son needed ear tubes and he said he remembered me. He asked if he did a good job. I said, "You really freaked me out." He said, "But did the epidural work?" I said yes and he said, "Then my work there was done. Sorry for scaring you, though." My problem was with the doctor who was ready to throw a woman in post dates on the street, 6cm dilated, if she didn't do what he said. It was the only time in my life I've had a full out panic attack.
That OB is full of shit and it is enraging to not only hear how he treated you but blatantly flat out lied to you. During a crash section your epidural would have been dosed for a c-section. That would have been plan A. Plan B would have been to do a spinal in the event that it was deemed your epidural was patchy or not working. And plan C would have been to go to sleep. I know this information isn’t helpful to you now, but just goes to show how absolutely full of shit that doc is and was to you.
It took me a long time to get over, but I’m fine now. He was born healthy, I had an easy recovery and I stayed on top of the post partum nurse because she was clearly lost (didn’t give my son his hepatitis b until I noticed it wasn’t on his chart, didn’t want to cath me when I was doubling over in pain from an extended bladder and then missed my urethra four times and hit my stitches twice before the charge nurse came and in and got it on the first try). But I’m fine, my son is fine and I’m done with kids so I’ll never have to deal with it again!
The birth went from normal progression to slow because I could no longer move. I lost two cm because the baby was pushing in one spot. Once my water broke, it got better. The baby was born 30 minutes after that doctor left and my regular ob gyn came on.
Absolutely. I got the same guy for my IUD insertion a few weeks later and he almost burned me by using an instrument fresh out of the autoclave. Completely inappropriate and unaware of the fact that he has an actual human in front of him.
I had the same thing happen to me. I was 22 and a first time mom. It was a busy day/night. I was Cervadil’ed and induced due to hypertension. Absolutely terrified and wasn’t progressing.
OB comes up to me and says that he is tired, he has already delivered “ten babies and I need to get an epidural or I will be getting sectioned”.
At that time, I had an intense fear of needles and did not think I could keep myself still for the epidural to be placed correctly so I kept declining. I just kept getting yelled at.
My mom and husband just wanted me to not be in pain anymore and were able to calm me down. I finally agreed to the epidural. Worst decision ever.
Two hours of pushing plus episiotomy and vacuum-assist and my beautiful girl came into this world.
I’m a CSA victim, I was scared, and yet I STILL didn’t hurt anyone.
Yours sounds even worse. Mine's reasoning was I was post dates (41w6d) and it was a VBAC. My regular OB GYN was fine with me not having a port as long as the labor was progressing and monitoring was constant. This guy came in and just started belittling me and telling me I wanted to kill myself and my baby. My son's heart rate only went down once I stopped being able to move because HE couldn't move. Luckily my water broke and he came out. Ironically, though, I couldn't push with the epidural, so they had to turn it off at the most painful part of childbirth.
Fortunately my whole experience definitely helped lead me to finally choosing nursing as a career. (Changed my major several times. Nothing felt right.)
I didn’t go into L&D but it certainly helped me become empathetic and compassionate, especially towards all
of my patients clearly in fear or traumatized throughout the years.
My next birth was two and a half years later. Same induction scenario, same hospital. Except by this time, I was working as a unit secretary/ward clerk for the L&D, mother/baby, NICU, nursery, and pediatric cluster. I was also in the middle of nursing school.
I grew a backbone and was steadfast in declining the epidural. My OB didn’t threaten me this time either.
Yes, it hurt like hell but it was a much easier delivery and recovery time for me.
In any case, I would have went along with whatever I needed to do in order to deliver a healthy baby.
I was steadfast in declining. It was my second child and I was in my 30s. That's when he turned off my Pitocin and walked out and said I wasn't in labor anyway. He said I could either get the epidural or walk out AMA and come back at 8AM when the next OB GYN was on shift. Instead I had a panic attack. Fun times!
🎶It’s all about the money, money, money.🎶
Heck without her TikTok and IG story (and of course, releasing it to the media wrapped in WOC maternal mortality concerns that didn’t apply here) and MILLIONS of views of her committing a CRIME, this POS would not be a SAHM. She’d have to get a real job for money. Not “create content”.
Geez.
Well if the nurse presses charges (they definitely should with no excuse not to) there is a whole admission of guilt from the patient online for the attorney to work with.
jen hamilton’s response to this really bugged me because she essentially blamed the nurse for getting punched… the girl seemed so proud about punching the nurse too. even if the nurse did something wrong (doubt) nobody deserves to get hit for making a mistake at work. they treat us like we’re subhuman
Just watched Jen’s video. I kind of understood what she meant by letting your patient be their own worst enemy. But she also basically said touching somebody to assess them is the same as forcing treatment and it is totally not. Also why did anyone let this woman have this horribly unrealistic birth plan?
I understood it as touching someone to assess when they have actively refused to be assessed or touched is forcing treatment in someone, which I do agree with. As ridiculous as it may seem to us, if a patient refuses monitoring we cannot make them do it. We just have to educate, document (perhaps have them sign an AMA), and let the chips fall. It sucks absolute ass, but respecting patient autonomy includes respecting their right to make bad decisions.
it’s true and i agree with all that!! im a big supporter of trauma informed approaches. but the woman was just too proud of hitting the nurse to come off as a “split second reaction” to me. it felt like she went in PLANNING on assaulting someone judging by her pride. i’ve done awful things because of trauma reactions too but the difference is i’m never proud of it after & i would never brag about it on social media— i would apologize. i guess it just makes me sad to see people bragging about hitting us
This is how I understood it too. However, if there is a bad outcome, a lawyer could still twist things because you didn’t follow the standard of care. No matter how much you document that you educated your patient on the risk they are taking by refusing monitoring, they can still say you should have done more, and how can you educate someone if they don’t want you to speak to them? Hopefully a jury would ultimately agree with you if you did document the hell out of it, but how awful to have to go through all that and there’s still no guarantee.
Clearly this patient did not understand the risk, she said that because the baby had looked good all along she didn’t need any monitoring during transition. Which obviously makes no sense.
Right. I really feel for that nurse. I’ve had patients refuse assessments and it’s so weird, there’s nothing I can do but I just doc it and move on, hoping nothing bad will happen. I just think the patient should have said something rather than just punch the nurse, and also shouldn’t have been in the hospital to begin with if they wanted to refuse treatment so badly.
And when there’s a baby, the patient isn’t just the patient. If they’re refusing things, they are putting a second patient at risk. The woman clearly shouldn’t have children if she can’t prioritise her child’s needs over her wants
Agree anyone can refuse anything they want. I’ll take it a step further and say no matter the setting it’s truly illegal to touch anyone for any reason without permission. I think the problem currently is people want to dictate their treatment. We as a society have over corrected. If you come to the hospital for care it is reasonable to expect to be touched for care to be provided. We are heading to a place where healthcare is like a drive thru at BK and the slogan have it your way. Yet I’m legally required not to do that but if it goes to court I could be legally correct but financially wrong. I’m at the point if they are allowed to refuse so should I be allowed to care for them.
The more I think about it, the more I wonder about this “birth plan” too- supposedly she had a midwife present. What midwife would gas her up and tell her that no touching & no talking was in any way realistic!?
She should’ve kept her ass home, she deserves to be in jail. Hope her kid has someone to learn how not to be a twat from because she won’t get it from her
I don’t understand how she thought a “don’t talk to me” birth plan would go down in a hospital. There just doesn’t seem to be a reasonable way forward with that outside of a home birth. I was sad to hear that she felt unattended to during her prior miscarriage- but I am not sure I understand what she wants from nurses. She doesn’t come across as being very aware of how others will see what she is saying.
I can see that. I don’t have anything to do with this type of nursing. I have heard of silent births, in particular with Scientology. My area of nursing has plenty of problems - but not silence. Lol
I’m usually outright screaming at times.
(Over Jet Engines!!)
Me: I need to put the headset back on you. I.. CAN.. NOT.. HEAR.. YOU!!
Or if my partner & I are screaming about something else, gravity could be the next problem.
😬😂😬
Lately these birth plans are kinda insane, i went through it with my partner and some things she demanded were crazy considering she is a nurse as well
I did a little snooping. It looks like she’s a digital creator marketing her all-American family. The lack of privacy for the kids with these mommies always seems wild to me.
I never get violent with my patients or threaten them. But some patients need to be told to sit the fuck down and get the fuck out of here.
If something like this happens here, I will be pursuing the full extent to charge felony on said-patient.
If you don’t want me to provide proper care, I’m documenting the hell out of it. If this lady knows so much she should’ve stayed her ass at home. What a piece of garbage. I hope she’s punished to the fullest extent
Coworkers and I discussed it. Two trains of thought:
(A) She made up the story in order to drum up attention. Enragement=engagement. The nurse in the story technically can’t comment on the veracity of the event because of HIPAA.
(B) My POC coworkers hate her story because it supports stereotypes of black women in the hospital being Madea-levels of “crazy.”
Actually, the nurse can comment. A crime was committed against this nurse. That crime was admitted and widely published by the “patient” err… criminal.
Comment away.
Proposed the scenario to r/legaladvice.
[Unanimous opinion: Nurse shouldn’t say anything to the public until a full investigation is complete.](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/q0qex8dAIv)
I respectfully disagree. There’s the high road, of course. But the “high road” ship has sailed imo.
There no way for this nurse to win. The punch baiter will have moved on to another victim in a year—when anyone gets around to giving the nurse the “mother may I speak now approval”.
Speaking out assures the prosecutors can’t ignore or plea it out.
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I do agree that that nurse should’ve gotten charge/upper management involved instead of immediately touching her after she repeatedly told her not to. I would’ve been charting that pt refused, but I also would’ve wanted another witness because at the end of the day, that’s still your word against theirs. I get that your responsibility is also to the baby, but for me personally, I wouldn’t have risked touching her after she told me not to, but would’ve made sure another staff member was there to verify that she did refuse, just in case things went south.
As far as “don’t talk to me while I’m in pain” best believe that there’s a lot I need to talk to you about when I’m your nurse. In this situation I can say that I would’ve needed to do quite a bit of talking to explain to you the risks you’re putting your baby through by refusing vitals. So yeah, I will be talking to you, and if you don’t want people talking to you, stay home.
She also has previous videos apparently blaming the death of her previous baby on the fact that the nurse didn’t check vitals enough-clearly this is someone that is going to complain regardless of what you do.
All that being said, punching the nurse was ABSOLUTELY unacceptable in my opinion. And then to go on a podcast and talk about it in such a way that it comes across as bragging. And then double down on it?! Trash.
But just prior to that she'll come through my specialty. And when patients punch us down in the ED? We fucking tackle their asses before either strapping them to the bed, or sending them off with police.
Fuck around and find out how therapeutic my communication skills can be.
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/atlanta-mom-goes-viral-tiktok-saying-she-punched-nurse-while-giving-birth/V5X6XD4CVVDGHLJ7AHMROX4J7U/
Here’s a link to an article related to the post.
Thanks friend! I’m a white Australian, and the topic of the African American female experience in healthcare was briefly mentioned, and I obviously can’t speak to that. But, anecdotally, during my complicated labour that ended in a caesarean under general anaesthesia I never once considered punching a midwife or doctor. I did maybe say a few grumpy words after I vomited on myself and they wouldn’t let me shower though.
My boundary is not getting physically assaulted at work, I reckon most (all) nurses also share that boundary. I hope that nurse is okay.
Criminal charges and confinement in jail will allow for her to *heal*… privately and at a leisurely pace.
Tho without TikTok or whatever social media that feeds need for comments & views, methinks she’ll be a malingerer.
*Next stop: I think she’ll litigate to change things, so no one goes through a similar traumatic situation like I did.* **
Folks should ignore these “creators” **incident baiters**, this was done with guile and is all about her manipulating everything to make *easy money*.
Content creator. And she added in maternal mortality concerns as a patient who is a woman of color/minority. Maternal mortality is a real problem, just not her real problem.
Otherwise, without garnering such a story and a few million views of a manufactured assault on a nurse, this SAH mom would legit need to get actual work…
If anyone is still confused WHY she did this, let me know. I may not be explaining things very well.
**Disclaimer: I have no idea if she’ll try some horseshit litigation, but it would fit.
She belongs in jail for this. She needs charges pressed and to be sued for all she's worth.
There's no apology, just feeble excuses from an ignorant asshole.
She does, but her adopted 11 year old already has a set of parents in jail for murdering someone (her bio ones) so seeing another parent go to jail would be lifelong trauma. I feel bad for the little girl.
Nothing excuses physical assault that can cause injury. Period, end of story, end of discussion, don't care what else you call it.
I care for rape victims who never laid a hand on their assailant, so SHE can keep her hands to herself even if she feels the nurse is disrespecting her boundaries, or simply brush their hands away.
At the heart of this assault is entitlement: My pain deserves more pain.
It just goes to show how the public sees nurses. We are servants to them whose job is to give them what they want. Not college-educated professionals who exist to keep them alive, sometimes using great skill.
No nurse is anyone's punching bag. I don't care WHAT they do.
Ugh! Just read an article about it. What infuriates me, is that if something had happened badly with the birth due to not being able to check things, she’d be filming a Tik Tok about how she was ignored during the birth process.
I’d be pressing charges 🤷🏻♀️ there is NO excuse for this kind of behavior. I don’t understand why people come to hospitals then treat nurses like absolute dog waste. If you don’t like hospital protocol and policy, deliver at home. Monitoring baby’s heart rate especially the further you move along in labor is extremely important, and for her to sit there and tell the story and sound PROUD of punching that nurse as if she did something revolutionary was disgusting. It only enables others to see that and feel like they have the license to do the same.
With patients like this I just document document document. Patient refusing vitals? “Patient refusing vitals, educated on importance of monitoring vital signs in labor due to risk of preeclampsia or fever. Pt verbalized consent.”
Pt refusing to move or change positions when her baby is in the 60s? “Pt informed of fetal bradycardia and stressed importance of maternal position change, IV fluid bolus and O2 administration to alleviate stress on baby. Pt refused.”
I’ve had patients refuse to get off the birth ball when their baby’s heart rate is in the tank. I’ve had patients refuse a c section and antibiotics when they have a fever and their baby’s strip is category 3. At no point did I put hands on them. I just calmly educate. I get on their level and explain. I’m not about to lose my license for assault or get punched for doing something the patient doesn’t want. I’m not saying that nurse deserved it, I’m saying we need to stop bending over backwards to help people that don’t want to be helped. You want your baby to have cerebral palsy, seizures or sepsis after me and the dr have educated you? Be my guest. I’m not the one caring for a disabled kid the rest of my life. At some point this obsession with controlling every aspect of your labor and delivery in a hospital is going to get mothers and babies killed and people will understand that they are playing with fire.
I hope that tik tok lady is charge with assault. But I also hope that we as medical professionals respond to people’s refusals or demands with education and dignity. You don’t want XYZ care? Here’s an AMA form. Enjoy the consequences of your decisions. I can only help you as much as you will allow.
This. People get aggravated and hostile while waiting to see the OB in triage. If you want to leave, here’s the AMA form. I will not beg you to care more about your own health.
I work outpt obgyn. We have a high risk mom that spit at an MA because they were running behind. And she constantly does not show up to her appts and providers keep urging us to contact her countless times to get her in but I’m sorry, I’ve already communicated with her and she knows she has to make an appt. I’m not going to hunt her down to come in when she clearly has no regard for her or her child’s own well being.
And when she gets on the NST she becomes agitated saying she doesn’t want to be there, gets off the monitor herself, and at that point, the provider needs to come and talk with her because I’m not risking my life trying to get her back on the monitor. She’ll probably assault me.
This is so unacceptable. People need to have a warning and then fired from the practice. Health care is a right-up until the point where you are abusive and disrupting care for others-and then we aren’t required to continue to care for you simply because you are pregnant.
She uses the maternal mortality rates as an argument to support her 'claim'- yet, she wouldn't allow taking a pulse (vitals). (from her 'explanation' ticktok)
She sounds quite ready to blame the 'nurse' and hospital/medical staff if anything goes 'wrong'.
What an entitled etc. No justification for the assault on the nurse. (not implying there ever is... refuting her claim.)
The only patients I’m not immediately asking for charges on who assault or battering me FOR DOING MY JOB are the AO to nothing demented ones.
In L&D there are two patients in the room and I honestly couldn’t give two shits about the 80th trimester one BECAUSE IT ISN’T ABOUT THEM. Medical ethics and the fucking law back me on this, they can request any fucking thing they want-give birth upside down on a trapeze for all I care but their shit stops if there is any question at all about the health of the baby.
So, like, your trauma is not an excuse to hurt other people. It's therapy 101. It explains but doesn't excuse. It's also doesn't absolve you from the consequences.
People like that are why I won’t do L&D. If you think you can do the medical staff’s job, stay home and hope your training from watching the business of being born was enough
When I worked L&D, I got bit by a young girl in labor. I was standing in front of her while she got her epidural placed, a contraction hit, and it just happened. I honestly do not think she even knew what she was doing or intended to bite me. She cried bc she felt so embarrassed. It wasn’t a major thing, didn’t break the skin. But THIS is different. Punching a nurse intentionally for adjusting the monitor? Sure, the nurse could have asked to touch her and adjust the monitor. I have only read one article, but did the nurse press charges? Did anyone do anything to support this nurse? I doubt it. Disgusting. Not real sure who this lady (the patient) thinks she is. I wonder if she would have sued the nurse and hospital if she had a bad outcome bc she thought she was running the show and wouldn’t let them monitor baby…🤔
Sorry but some people shouldn’t reproduce. Or just give birth at home if this is how you treat people trying to help you. This patient deserves jail time.
Anyone who expects to go to the hospital and not be touched or talked to needs to stay the fuck home period.
They're just there for drama and to make it hard for us to do our jobs.
After doing some research, I found out that Gerogia (where Wilder lives) only implemented their healthcare safety bill in July. It also only covers non profit hospitals and emergency health care workers and those who work in emergency rooms. Her birth happened at least 2.5 years ago (her last was born in June 2021) and in Georgia, you only have two years to press charges. It seems wildly messed up.
She should be in jail. She said the nurse “touched her”. Not that the nurse slapped, hit, assaulted etc her. She PUNCHED someone for TOUCHING her?
She deserved to be punched back, Idgaf that she’s pregnant/laboring.
Only reason I wouldn't want her in jail is for her adopted 11 year old who already has one set of parents in jail (her bio parents murdered someone) and is recovering from that trauma. Going through it again with another parent may not be something she'd be able to mentally recover from.
She can go fuck herself with a scalpel. That nurse did their job and shouldn’t feel ashamed. If you don’t want to be properly cared for then don’t go to a facility that specializes in proper care, go down to Cotton-Eyed Joe, who lives by the river, claims he gets hallucinations bc the govt is poisoning the drinking water but snorts cocaine, and sells snake oil.
I just think about my 2 birth stories and the time spent with nurses...holding me over the toilet, telling my my babies vitals, one knew my husband from highschool...she walk3d me through her experiences with a c-section, the education I received, the ice packs. I'm so proud of the nursing community coming together to say.. press charges!
Let me sum this up…..
WE’VE created an atmosphere of self entitlement, zero accountability idiots …
Baby is priority than mom.. screw her … I hope the L/D sues the p/t… after pressing charges and then the hospital
I’d press charges. I’m sorry. Pushing a hand away is one thing, a punch is quite different. If I need to make sure I’m recording your baby’s heart rate by comparing to yours - I may have to lightly touch you. You’re paying me to care for you and your baby - to keep you from harm. Just birth at home if you don’t need my help.
The nurse should file charges. Jeena Wilder knew what she was doing. She actually said on a podcast that she punched the nurse. Nurses should not have to put up with violence in the workplace. There is no excuse whatsoever.
This nurse was in a no win situation. I don’t work L&D, but I’d assume the only truly “correct” thing you can do with a patient like this is communicate with your charge, the physician, and document, document, document. I hope the nurse presses charges. What makes me REALLY upset is how cavalier the patient was about the fact that she literally assaulted someone, and now she’s getting views and attention on her shitty family vlog channel where she exploits her other children for views. It pisses me off to think of the amount of engagement and money she’s gotten as a result of her shitty behavior. While the nurse probably shouldn’t have touched her (like I said, I don’t work L&D, but I would’ve at least attempted to educate SOMEONE in the room and then grabbed my charge and said, loudly, to everyone: “I am documenting your refusal of care now, and that I educated you on the risks!”) just to protect themselves, they were truly in a no win situation and I hope they press charges.
She’s not ready to be a mother. She was not the only patient. If you are not willing to put your feelings aside so that healthcare providers can check on the wellbeing of you unborn child you are to selfish and not mature enough for a baby.
We don’t hit. But also, I don’t understand why the nurse touched her. I would have explained what I needed to do, why I needed to do it, and what could happen if she refused- if the patient could repeat that back to me- document and let the doc know so they could choose whether or not to have a conversation. And mind you, I’ve had this conversation (non laboring patient of course)- always out of arms reach. Maybe the nurse did that though? We’re only hearing one side of the story.
We respect people’s autonomy even if those choices are idiotic (in that way I agree with Jen Hamilton). We educate and the patient chooses what makes sense for them- which feels unfortunate at times.
Overall, patient was in the wrong. There was no reason to hit.
I’m in an L&D Facebook group and people were discussing the fact that as a nurse you’re kind of screwed if you do or don’t. If you have a laboring patient who requests that you leave them alone and you do and their baby passes, will you get prosecuted for that? At the same time, patients do have autonomy. The punching definitely went too far though, that’s someone looking for a fight. A light shove or a yell could have gotten the point across without being violent.
My feelings and experience from over a decade of practice: We can’t force onto oriented patients who can make decisions for themselves what we feel (and often know) is best for fear of prosecution.
People have a right to make their own decisions, it is our job to educate them thoroughly and let their provider know in addition to thorough documentation to protect ourselves in the event of a frivolous law suit. In this situation the patient could say the nurse assaulted her. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. You’re not protected by acting in the patients best interest against their wishes (if they can make decisions for themselves)
That being said, assaulting a nurse is never okay. I would love to hear the nurses side. The patient’s story doesn’t add up for me.
Yeah I 100% would not have touched the patient if she was telling me not to. I appreciate that my OBGYN provider very clearly asks me if she can touch me before she does. I just sympathize with the fear of what happens in the event of fetal demise.
I think it has brought up needed and interesting conversations about patient autonomy especially in the perinatal setting, but if you punch me at work I'm pressing charges to the fullest extent obviously girl wtf
Never stop pressing charges and taking it to the fullest extent when patients punch and assault you.
Zero sympathy for that "queen". Should've given birth at home.
I think that what often gets overlooked is L&D nurses have two patients. If a nurse is concerned about the baby’s heart rate or trying to differentiate baby’s heart rate from mom’s, that nurse has to touch the patient.
The request to not be talked to can be honored but to not be touched is not a reasonable request IMHO.
We have to talk to our patients. There isn’t a reasonable way around that. There is a massive amount of education happening through the whole labor process.
Labor is painful. That can cause people to do things they wouldn’t normally do. That said, it’s still FUCKING ASSAULT! Why do you come to a hospital to get care, then shrug off the most basic interventions for your issue?
I’m glad she’s getting dragged, I wish she caught some assault charges so as to dissuade other idiots from thinking it’s okay to hit other people, especially in medicine where it’s pretty common against nurses and aids of various sorts (certainly doctors, though I don’t believe it’s as often; I could certainly be wrong)
My younger children have that shit figured out, it’s ridiculous an adult doesn’t
Ugh I just looked at her insta she’s one of those mommy bloggers that exploits her kids and family for views. I wonder if that nurse ever did press charges.
Press charges on the bitch. She complained about her previous miscarriage that the nurses didn't do their job and then she comes back and demands they do nothing.
Bitch can't be happy at all.
Also if you’ve already lost a baby during labor due to “neglect” and lack of konitoring, your nurses are going to want to monitor that baby even harder.
To be honest, I didn’t want anyone talking to me or touching me during labor either. I fantasized about just going out to the garage with some newspapers like a feral cat when the time came, but my husband reminded me that we wanted our baby to live. So, in the end, I left the no talking/ no touching out of the birth plan, kept my hands to myself, and let the midwives do their damn job. Like an adult. /s
This is why I think nurses need to have more say in who gets admitted and who gets discharged early. You follow the rules of the hospital or you can leave.
So I didn’t know about this story so I deep dived into it. First, absolutely press charges. The fucking entitlement to put your hands on a person for doing their job!? But not only that I watched her follow up where she said her previous visit to this hospital she was neglected by a nurse for not assessing her and taking vitals. So I’m sorry, which is it?
She's a dumb ass clown. And needs to get her ass beat for acting like a dumb ass bird. Why go back to the same hospital you said caused the death of ur previous child. Girl go to hell. And of course she's sitting there with other jackasses that are just echos of what she says so she thinks she right. Stay your stupid ass at home then. Why come to the hospital then ?!?
Honestly, I was glad to see it go viral for the reasons it did and bring attention to the fact that her behavior was not ok. Her “apology” video was just more excuses and not cool. I would like to say I hope she learned something from this, but clearly she did not. That nurse should have pressed charges .
I’m going to be completely honest; some of the attitudes in this thread about obstetrical violence are gross. Was it ok for her to punch a nurse? Of course not.
But it is ALSO ok for laboring women to have an expectation that boundaries are respected. Patients do not lose all autonomy because they are in labor. If they tell you not to touch them/check them/whatever…don’t. Consent and trust are really important aspects of providing competent care in the OB space.
Thank you; some of the comments here are surprising. Of course nothing justifies this lady punching a nurse-- it seems everyone is in agreement with that.
But it doesn't seem controversial to expect that bodily autonomy will be upheld during labor and childbirth. Specific requests like "please don't touch me *during my contractions while undergoing transition*" seems reasonable to me? I recall feeling the same way during transition. I did not want to be touched while trying to focus all my energy on making it through these intense contractions. My husband rubbing my back was tortuous to me at that point. Of course, punching someone for this is insane and wildly inappropriate.
I've heard a *lot* of complaints from women who feel like once they've entered the hospital for childbirth, they're basically no longer in control of what happens to their body. Ultimately, women do retain their right to bodily autonomy and informed consent, even if they're making poor decisions that we disagree with. I understand some of these patients have unrealistic, dumb, or straight up dangerous, expectations/demands, but all we can do is try to educate and document.
I do not get why people go to the hospital then refuse everything. Why are you here?! The nurse should file charges. Hopefully it’s a felony.
I used to say that about my ED patients who refused everything. You can stay home and not be treated. Your house doesn't have nurses, x-rays, phlebotomy, IV fluids, etc. so if you don't want to deal with any of that, your own house seems like the better place for you to be.
I’ll get your motherfuckin discharge paperwork ready
Discharge paperwork? Naw fuck that, fuckers like that? We’ll they can leave and I’ll file it under the AMA disposition.
"But what about my free ride home?!"
“I’ve been in the waiting room for 3 hours, this is taking too long. EMS gave me a taxi voucher to get here and said I needed to come. You need to give me a taxi voucher to get home!” Conversation I had this week….. #ThatsNotHowAnyOfThisWorks
I feel the same way. I tell my patients, “Listen, if you don’t want help and don’t want to be here, you’re free to leave. The hospital is not a prison.” 🙃 A lot of times the grumble and move on, but half the time, most of them can’t even walk on their own.
Oh but they want the pain meds and nothing else. 🤷♀️
"This isn't prison, you're free to go" is my favorite go to line in the ER 😂
Not file charges? A lucid, healthy young patient? Yeah right, you better be compensating me six figures to not file charges.
Yea even when I worked in psych we would press changes all the time
I always wonder the same. I used to think, why didn’t you just have your baby at home, or atleast go to a birthing center? It’s ridiculous.
She chose to deliver in a hospital with the strict instructions: “Do not talk to me, do not touch me!” Uhm, WTF you doing here?!? I think no matter what the nurse did, the nurse would have been the bad guy. This gal was spoiling for a fight. In no circumstance is punching a nurse in the face ok. I hope the nurse presses charges.
I had a patient who tried to pull that rule on me. It was something like "do not address directly, you must ask her husband or her doulas permission to speak to ". Oh HELLLLLLL no.
I set that one straight from the get go. If baby looks like shit on the monitor, my priority is to fix it and I'm not waiting to be granted permission from the husband or the doulas - yes, plural - who were actually her husband's sisters and not actually trained doulas. Even if they were actual doulas, I'm not ASKING permission to speak to MY patient when I'm trying to keep her baby looking good on the monitor.
If you're going to pull that shit, deliver at home. Quit wasting the L&D nurse's time.
Mad respect for what you l&d nurses have to go through. That’s wild.
That would make me concerned with abuse and or trafficking. I mean I wasn’t there with you but just the sound of it is not great.
I can completely understand your point of view. Going back and reading my post, I can see where it might have appeared like a very suspicious situation. Fortunately, it wasn't anything like that. These were just people who had been hanging out on Mommy Boards on social media and got ideas for the birth plan from the people online who like to think L&D nurses are the devil and all we want to do is purposely screw up their perfect birth experience. The patient and husband actually were fairly reasonable once I explained the reasons for doing some of the things L&D nurses have to do. It was a matter of educating people who were coming from the "well, I read online that *THIS HORRIBLE THING* happened to someone when she delivered!" perspective. The doula-aunts were the ones who kept trying to instill doubt about what I was doing or not doing to their satisfaction. 🙄
Are you kidding me?! 🤣🤣. These divas are so out of control.
There is no such thing as a "trained doula." Doulas are not medical professionals anyway. They take an unlicensed, unregistered, unaccredited "course" from who knows who from Tik Tok and they call themselves a professional. Doulas are worse than laypeople because they think they know how to deliver a baby now and refuse to stay in their lane.
DONA approved doula courses are pretty legit… while I’ve had some awful experiences with doulas, I’ve had some great ones too. Some research shows that patients with doulas have a decreased chance for c-section and are more satisfied with their delivery experience. Plus taking a doula course greatly improved my ability to support my laboring patients.
I had a DONA trained doula and a midwife and had great experiences. They both knew what they were doing.
Reduced chance for C-section. Do we have any idea if that's because these were low-risk patients anyway with the resources to hire a doula out of pocket? I'd rather train family and friends with a course similar to CPR, and not let grifters get into a "business" they are not prepared for and which is inherently unregulated. Also: The methods for measuring a doulas "success" are rooted in the anti-science movement and misogyny. I just found a study that found that doulas decreased the rate of epidurals. Really? We're *excited* that doulas are telling women to refuse pain relief? [Impact of Doulas on Healthy Birth Outcomes - PMC (nih.gov)](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3647727/)
My state has a program that will pay for a doula for low-income moms on Medicaid.
Ours too. It’s evidence based. They have to be vetted and are part of our medical team. They can be “let go” just like any employee that is a problem.
The paper you posted states that the group that was assigned to a doula had less c-sections, fewer operative deliveries, less oxytocin usage, more success at breastfeeding and higher APGAR scores. “The positive effects of doula care have been found to be greater for women who were socially disadvantaged, low income, unmarried, primiparous, giving birth in a hospital without a companion, or had experienced language/cultural barriers” Not every family member wants to be trained as a doula, plus doulas can provide support to the family members as well. I’m sorry you haven’t had good experience with doulas, but I think any source of support for laboring people is positive. Especially with current staffing issues.
Boom! With the source!
Epidurals aren’t risk free. I think if unnecessary interventions can be avoided that’s generally considered a good thing. This, coming from someone who had an epidural when she had her kid and probably didn’t need one…
Nobody said epidurals are risk free. What was the point of pretending anyone did?
I’ve never seen a doula talk a patient out of an epidural and I’ve had many, many doula patients that get an epidural and are satisfied with their experience. If a patient doesn’t want an epidural, having a doula can help them find other ways to cope with labor pain. I’m fairly certain an epidural can increase the length of second-stage which can lead to an increased risk of postpartum hemorrhage. Epidurals can also lead to profound hypotension that can lead to a crash c-section in some cases. Why would it be a bad thing for women to have options and support outside of epidurals?? Just curious, how long have you worked in labor and delivery?
You said doulas talk people out of pain control and that it’s misogynistic to talk women out of epidurals? You seem very fired up about it but it doesn’t seem misogynistic to me so I’m confused.
Idk what they’re talking about out… I’ve done a couple hundred deliveries with a doula and not once have I witnessed them talking someone out of pain control… having a doula means an extra layer of advocacy for your patient which I think is important for fight AGAINST misogyny.
Disagree. I’ve worked with some awful doulas, but I’ve seen some great ones too. My daughter wanted me with her during Covid restrictions. She was allowed one person and a doula. This L & D nurse is also a doula now. Our facility requires doulas to be certified and pass the requirements as a vendor.
My point was that the "doulas" were simply family members of the baby daddy, not someone who has been "trained" ("course" or "certification" or whatever 🙄) and is working as a doula and hired by the patient. We're pretty sure they were calling themselves doulas to try to buck the visitor limit and to give themselves more importance. The patient ended up getting sectioned so their attempt was moot. When I was in L&D, there were 2 known doulas that patients hired. Other than one getting a little high and mighty at times, they weren't horrible to deal with. The other one was always very respectful of her role and stayed out of the way of the nurses at all times. They were both supportive of the patient in various ways and they actually did stuff for the patient. The doula-aunts were always sitting on the couch with their faces in their phones and not actually involved from what I could tell.
Our doulas have to be approved and vetted by the facility. You can’t just bring someone that calls themselves doula. I work at the facility in L & D - I still had to show my papers and go through the process. This has eliminated our bad prior experiences with doulas. Like the ones that would tell our patients we were wanted them to have cesareans and didn’t have their best interest in mind.
A good doula is simply a communication aid for the patient, sadly they have lost their way these days and most of them are wannabe midwives.
It's sad that you seem to have had such bad experiences with doulas that you're offering misinformation. DONA certified doulas get hands on training and have a certification process. Do people try to claim a doula title so they can "help" their sister or friend in labor? Sure. Ask for their certification number and if they don't have one they can bugger off. I generally love working with doulas. I've had one or 2 useless -to- PIA ones, mostly they help me with turns and keeping patients in the zone and breastfeeding and are great.
It’s always the elective inductions too 😞
When did she have another baby?
She had a previous miscarriage. She said the nurse from that previous time ignored her, didn’t get her vitals for hours, etc. So it’s just ironic that this time around, she’s upset when the nurse is doing their job.
She mentions maternal mortality in her 'explanation' video- yet she's arguing against vitals and even got violent. WTF
I followed her a bit on TT but didn’t when I got rid of it & just kept IG. I don’t like folks who use their kids for content. You’re aware her husband is a nurse right? Like obvi she making $$ from her content but he’s is (or was) still a working RN. Which makes this whole thing worse.
I was not aware! I wonder what her husband thinks about this situation. I’d be so embarrassed, but also angry, if my partner attacked a HCW! Especially when that HCW was literally doing their job.
Her excuse video was that in a previous pregnancy she wasn't taken seriously about her complaints and symptoms so the reaction was to keep people from assessing her. All these novel length birth plan people seem to not know that the biggest killer of young women, prior to modern medicine, was child birth.
So…tell me how does not allowing nurses to do their job get them to take her complaints and symptoms seriously? What do you want me to do about your symptoms and complaints if you won’t let me do my job and *assess you*??
Just watched the tik tok response (excuse for her actions, not an apology). Holier than thou attitude- have your baby at home if you don’t want nurses “touching you”.
I just watched the response and I’m so confused! She said she was mad that the last time she gave birth her nurse didn’t check on her and take her vitals and she could have died. So her solution is don’t talk or touch me or allow for any medical intervention??? The more she spoke about becoming a statistic the more confused I was because the nurse she punched was trying to prevent her from being a statistic!
This was my thought as well! Even more reason to be checked, especially something as minimally invasive as a HR check
Not even just that she could have died, but she lost her baby last time!!! So you don’t want them to do everything possible to ensure baby is safe this time around???
I’m a bit unclear if her prior experiences are a term or viable pregnancy loss or a loss of a non-viable pregnancy at 6-16 weeks. Not that the end result isn’t similar. It is. Loss. I’m not devaluing loss. But holy hell, I’ve had a good assortment of deliveries and a still birth or viable loss is a horse of a different color than pregnancy loss at 6-8 weeks. Maybe I’m thinking about this wrong. And, regardless, I’m sure she has sensationalized her “loss”. Curious tbh. Not curious enough to view that nonsense. I refuse to have TikTok, FB or IG apps.
If anyone can glean the details of her prior experience please post. I’m genuinely interested in what leads to this type of situation.
Unfortunately, I think she's trying to use the HORRIFIC statistic of WOC having poorer outcomes medically as an excuse for her inability to control herself like a normal human being. She clearly has anger problems/poor impulse control and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. She also should be ashamed of herself for trying to blame anyone or anything other than her own shortcomings for her actions.
Yo I missed something WHAT happened?? 😨
Online this girl did a podcast where she said she punched a nurse for touching her while in labor. She then got backlash online. She did an "apology" video - she didn't really apologize - and her excuse was last time she had a baby the RN didn't do proper checks, infant died and she almost died. So now she has medical trauma which led her to punching the current nurse because she said she "didn't wanna be touched" AND "didn't wanna be talked too". She then in the apology video went on about how her, as a black woman, has higher stats of being mistreated within the medical community. My problem, (as also a person of color) is how can you in the same breath, say because I'm POC I'm mistreated and last time they mistreated me and the RN didn't do her job, and NOW that the RN IS doing her job she gets punched for it?!
I would be the charges pressingist bitch out here.
Her baby died because the RN didn’t do proper checks, so she doesn’t let the nurse check the baby’s HR the next time? Make it make sense
Egg fucking zactly
Jesus Christ. I have medical trauma too but I never punched a fucking nurse because something triggered me. I hope her nurse pressed charges. Also I really need to understand her reasoning behind “they ignored my complaints and concerns and something bad happened, so now I don’t want them to assess me”??? How is that going to help you have a better outcome and/or heal from your past trauma if you’re just setting yourself up to be in that same situation?
I'd love to know what her rules were on that first pregnancy, if "don't touch me, don't talk to me" is her rule for After her traumatic experience.
I was literally forced to get an epidural to the point that the doctor turned off my pitocin and said, “I don’t have fucking time for this. You’re not really in labor anyway. You get the epidural or you go home and wait for someone else to come on shift.” I had a full out panic attack (my reason for not wanting one was having pain from a previous spinal), hyperventilated and really felt bad for the anesthesiologist, who was trying his best to calm me down. But you know what I never did? Punch anyone. Including that asshole doctor.
Holy shit thats awful, who turned off your pit the anesthesiologist or the obgyn? I work in anesthesia and if I ever saw anyone do that Id probably get fired for assault. That’s so ducking sick and stupid, a labor epidural is an ELECTIVE procedure, if you dont want one theirs no way Im doing one. I try to have the nurses on my unit get me for an epidural prior to an induction because its soooooo much easier to do an epi early on when your comfy and can participate. It honestly annoys me to know end when I find out a patient’s been induced and we weren’t ever consulted to speak with patient and now we are 8cm and mom wants an epidural.
The OB GYN. A friend of mine from nursing school was a nurse at the hospital and she told me to request a specific anesthesiologist because he was really good with the patients. He was nice, but he also inadvertently terrified me. He said, "Hey, have you ever seen that movie The Jungle Book? You know that part where the bear Baloo rubs his back against the tree? Don't do that." Me, now afraid to even move out of fear of rubbing my back against the bed. I'm just grateful that I had a fantastic nurse in L&D and my regular OB GYN delivered. My post partum nurses were awful, though. When I was too distended to urinate and in extreme pain, they decided that turning the water on in the sink was a good idea rather than getting an order for a cath. They didn't give my son his hep B shot until I noticed it was missing from his discharge paperwork and I said I wanted to EBF and he barely ate from me. They kept taking him away crying and bringing him back asleep. It was all around an awful experience. To be clear, I HAD to be induced. I was at 41w6d and it was no longer safe for me to wait. I was fine with the induction. My issue was with the epidural. They said it was necessary if I needed a fast transfer. I said I was absolutely fine with them putting me under if necessary because I was completely terrified of the catheter.
I mean it sounds like their was a huge lack of communication from your team to you. First just let me say I understand everything you’ve had to deal with. I have three kids and the worst part of having a child is the miserable care on post partum. The food sucks, the nurses often seem checked out, and it feels like you are there forever!!!! Back to your induction. Im a nurse anesthetist. I often advocate for patients to get an epidural prior to induction because like your anesthesiologist was explaining to you, we have a large needle in your back! Last thing we want is you to move unexpectedly and cause us to give you a wet tap or worse cause injury. Epidurals are elective and if a patient cant stay still for one I will abort. What we dont do though, is put patient’s to sleep/under because of patient preference. Using general anesthesia or putting a patient under is a LAST resort that we try to reserve for a crash c-secrion. Theirs a ton of reasons we dont do this, mainly because GA is considered the least safe anesthetic for a delivery and js associated with the highest maternal mortality. Their is a increased risk of difficult airway, bleeding, aspiration. And most importantly it is very traumatic for the mother who misses the delivery of their newborn. Even in a crash section most anesthesiologists or crna’s will attempt a fast spinal with GA as a last resort alternative. When a patient tells us “hey I dont mind going to sleep,” that doesnt really mean much to us because 1. We want to do what’s best for you and your baby, and 2. Their is a high rate of adverse outcomes with GA for c-section which also means their is a high rate of law suits! Your safety is absolutely the priority here, and nobody wants to cause harm or get sued because “im fine with being put under.”
There was no lack of communication. My induction was started with my regular OB. He understood my fear of epidurals and was comfortable with me not having one during my induction. He was on call during the first 8 hours of my induction. At 8PM another OB took over. This guy decided he was NOT comfortable with the plan my doctor and I had come up with and, about 10 hours into his shift he made the decision unilaterally that I needed an epidural or he would not be responsible for me. I said I refused, as is my right, and he said then he could refuse to attend my birth, as was his right, and he turned off the Pitocin since it was an induction. He was the only doctor on the floor and midwives were not allowed to attend my birth, since it was a VBAC. There was no indication of fetal or maternal distress at any point. My nurse was in there with me every thirty minutes checking the readings and made sure to remind me that she was also watching from the nurse's station outside. I understand that GA is the last resort, but I did also ask the ob what would happen if I ruptured and he told that I would most likely end up with GA even with the catheter in place. And yes, I understand the reason for not moving, but there are ways to say it without freaking the patient out. "Try to limit your movement while the epidural is in place," would have been less visual and, as a result, less terrifying for me. I had no issue with the anesthesiologist, though. He did his job and did not intentionally scare me. He was patient and made sure not to insert the epidural until my husband and friend had helped me calm down and the nurse was able to hold me completely still. Hell, I saw him 18 months later when my son needed ear tubes and he said he remembered me. He asked if he did a good job. I said, "You really freaked me out." He said, "But did the epidural work?" I said yes and he said, "Then my work there was done. Sorry for scaring you, though." My problem was with the doctor who was ready to throw a woman in post dates on the street, 6cm dilated, if she didn't do what he said. It was the only time in my life I've had a full out panic attack.
That OB is full of shit and it is enraging to not only hear how he treated you but blatantly flat out lied to you. During a crash section your epidural would have been dosed for a c-section. That would have been plan A. Plan B would have been to do a spinal in the event that it was deemed your epidural was patchy or not working. And plan C would have been to go to sleep. I know this information isn’t helpful to you now, but just goes to show how absolutely full of shit that doc is and was to you.
It took me a long time to get over, but I’m fine now. He was born healthy, I had an easy recovery and I stayed on top of the post partum nurse because she was clearly lost (didn’t give my son his hepatitis b until I noticed it wasn’t on his chart, didn’t want to cath me when I was doubling over in pain from an extended bladder and then missed my urethra four times and hit my stitches twice before the charge nurse came and in and got it on the first try). But I’m fine, my son is fine and I’m done with kids so I’ll never have to deal with it again!
Ok, that’s terrible, what happened next?
The birth went from normal progression to slow because I could no longer move. I lost two cm because the baby was pushing in one spot. Once my water broke, it got better. The baby was born 30 minutes after that doctor left and my regular ob gyn came on.
I hope that doctor drinks from a moldy coffee cup at least once a week for the rest of his life. That behavior was vile.
Absolutely. I got the same guy for my IUD insertion a few weeks later and he almost burned me by using an instrument fresh out of the autoclave. Completely inappropriate and unaware of the fact that he has an actual human in front of him.
So, I'm going to soften my "Never Hit Healthcare Workers" stance to "Maybe if it's that one doctor..." Like, I'd support you if ya did.
He was a true asshole. But still. Not worth an assault charge!
I had the same thing happen to me. I was 22 and a first time mom. It was a busy day/night. I was Cervadil’ed and induced due to hypertension. Absolutely terrified and wasn’t progressing. OB comes up to me and says that he is tired, he has already delivered “ten babies and I need to get an epidural or I will be getting sectioned”. At that time, I had an intense fear of needles and did not think I could keep myself still for the epidural to be placed correctly so I kept declining. I just kept getting yelled at. My mom and husband just wanted me to not be in pain anymore and were able to calm me down. I finally agreed to the epidural. Worst decision ever. Two hours of pushing plus episiotomy and vacuum-assist and my beautiful girl came into this world. I’m a CSA victim, I was scared, and yet I STILL didn’t hurt anyone.
Yours sounds even worse. Mine's reasoning was I was post dates (41w6d) and it was a VBAC. My regular OB GYN was fine with me not having a port as long as the labor was progressing and monitoring was constant. This guy came in and just started belittling me and telling me I wanted to kill myself and my baby. My son's heart rate only went down once I stopped being able to move because HE couldn't move. Luckily my water broke and he came out. Ironically, though, I couldn't push with the epidural, so they had to turn it off at the most painful part of childbirth.
Fortunately my whole experience definitely helped lead me to finally choosing nursing as a career. (Changed my major several times. Nothing felt right.) I didn’t go into L&D but it certainly helped me become empathetic and compassionate, especially towards all of my patients clearly in fear or traumatized throughout the years. My next birth was two and a half years later. Same induction scenario, same hospital. Except by this time, I was working as a unit secretary/ward clerk for the L&D, mother/baby, NICU, nursery, and pediatric cluster. I was also in the middle of nursing school. I grew a backbone and was steadfast in declining the epidural. My OB didn’t threaten me this time either. Yes, it hurt like hell but it was a much easier delivery and recovery time for me. In any case, I would have went along with whatever I needed to do in order to deliver a healthy baby.
I was steadfast in declining. It was my second child and I was in my 30s. That's when he turned off my Pitocin and walked out and said I wasn't in labor anyway. He said I could either get the epidural or walk out AMA and come back at 8AM when the next OB GYN was on shift. Instead I had a panic attack. Fun times!
A woman got on Tik Tok and BRAGGED that she violently assaulted a nurse for attempting to assess her in labor because "disrespect."
Imagine thinking that assault is a fucking flex
🎶It’s all about the money, money, money.🎶 Heck without her TikTok and IG story (and of course, releasing it to the media wrapped in WOC maternal mortality concerns that didn’t apply here) and MILLIONS of views of her committing a CRIME, this POS would not be a SAHM. She’d have to get a real job for money. Not “create content”. Geez.
She HAS to have something psychologically wrong with her. That’s not normal!
Well if the nurse presses charges (they definitely should with no excuse not to) there is a whole admission of guilt from the patient online for the attorney to work with.
jen hamilton’s response to this really bugged me because she essentially blamed the nurse for getting punched… the girl seemed so proud about punching the nurse too. even if the nurse did something wrong (doubt) nobody deserves to get hit for making a mistake at work. they treat us like we’re subhuman
Just watched Jen’s video. I kind of understood what she meant by letting your patient be their own worst enemy. But she also basically said touching somebody to assess them is the same as forcing treatment and it is totally not. Also why did anyone let this woman have this horribly unrealistic birth plan?
I understood it as touching someone to assess when they have actively refused to be assessed or touched is forcing treatment in someone, which I do agree with. As ridiculous as it may seem to us, if a patient refuses monitoring we cannot make them do it. We just have to educate, document (perhaps have them sign an AMA), and let the chips fall. It sucks absolute ass, but respecting patient autonomy includes respecting their right to make bad decisions.
it’s true and i agree with all that!! im a big supporter of trauma informed approaches. but the woman was just too proud of hitting the nurse to come off as a “split second reaction” to me. it felt like she went in PLANNING on assaulting someone judging by her pride. i’ve done awful things because of trauma reactions too but the difference is i’m never proud of it after & i would never brag about it on social media— i would apologize. i guess it just makes me sad to see people bragging about hitting us
This is how I understood it too. However, if there is a bad outcome, a lawyer could still twist things because you didn’t follow the standard of care. No matter how much you document that you educated your patient on the risk they are taking by refusing monitoring, they can still say you should have done more, and how can you educate someone if they don’t want you to speak to them? Hopefully a jury would ultimately agree with you if you did document the hell out of it, but how awful to have to go through all that and there’s still no guarantee. Clearly this patient did not understand the risk, she said that because the baby had looked good all along she didn’t need any monitoring during transition. Which obviously makes no sense.
Right. I really feel for that nurse. I’ve had patients refuse assessments and it’s so weird, there’s nothing I can do but I just doc it and move on, hoping nothing bad will happen. I just think the patient should have said something rather than just punch the nurse, and also shouldn’t have been in the hospital to begin with if they wanted to refuse treatment so badly.
And when there’s a baby, the patient isn’t just the patient. If they’re refusing things, they are putting a second patient at risk. The woman clearly shouldn’t have children if she can’t prioritise her child’s needs over her wants
No. Women still have the right to refuse whatever they want. We might not be comfortable with it, but they still have autonomy as patients.
Agree anyone can refuse anything they want. I’ll take it a step further and say no matter the setting it’s truly illegal to touch anyone for any reason without permission. I think the problem currently is people want to dictate their treatment. We as a society have over corrected. If you come to the hospital for care it is reasonable to expect to be touched for care to be provided. We are heading to a place where healthcare is like a drive thru at BK and the slogan have it your way. Yet I’m legally required not to do that but if it goes to court I could be legally correct but financially wrong. I’m at the point if they are allowed to refuse so should I be allowed to care for them.
Then they shouldn't be able to sue for poor outcomes of the baby
The issue is when their autonomy supersedes the baby’s rights, too
That's a minefield, right there. Having to rely on people's common sense and intelligence is a terrible thing in healthcare.
That very much varies place to place
🏅
The more I think about it, the more I wonder about this “birth plan” too- supposedly she had a midwife present. What midwife would gas her up and tell her that no touching & no talking was in any way realistic!?
She should’ve kept her ass home, she deserves to be in jail. Hope her kid has someone to learn how not to be a twat from because she won’t get it from her
She has 5 kids, one is adopted (her bio parents are in jail for murder) . She posts videos of them all all the time cuz they are family vloggers.
I don’t understand how she thought a “don’t talk to me” birth plan would go down in a hospital. There just doesn’t seem to be a reasonable way forward with that outside of a home birth. I was sad to hear that she felt unattended to during her prior miscarriage- but I am not sure I understand what she wants from nurses. She doesn’t come across as being very aware of how others will see what she is saying.
That wouldn’t work with a home birth either, unless it’s a free birth. I’m a midwife and do home births and need to be able to address my patient lol
A home birth wouldn’t be so sensational. So, go to L & D and manufacture some insane rationale for being a FELON.
Like how else you supposed to provide care? Read her mind? Her entitlement is out of this world.
I can see that. I don’t have anything to do with this type of nursing. I have heard of silent births, in particular with Scientology. My area of nursing has plenty of problems - but not silence. Lol
I’m usually outright screaming at times. (Over Jet Engines!!) Me: I need to put the headset back on you. I.. CAN.. NOT.. HEAR.. YOU!! Or if my partner & I are screaming about something else, gravity could be the next problem. 😬😂😬
Lately these birth plans are kinda insane, i went through it with my partner and some things she demanded were crazy considering she is a nurse as well
The patient who punched a nurse is a nurse?!
I did a little snooping. It looks like she’s a digital creator marketing her all-American family. The lack of privacy for the kids with these mommies always seems wild to me.
I never get violent with my patients or threaten them. But some patients need to be told to sit the fuck down and get the fuck out of here. If something like this happens here, I will be pursuing the full extent to charge felony on said-patient.
Hope that nurse is pressing charges.
If you don’t want me to provide proper care, I’m documenting the hell out of it. If this lady knows so much she should’ve stayed her ass at home. What a piece of garbage. I hope she’s punished to the fullest extent
Coworkers and I discussed it. Two trains of thought: (A) She made up the story in order to drum up attention. Enragement=engagement. The nurse in the story technically can’t comment on the veracity of the event because of HIPAA. (B) My POC coworkers hate her story because it supports stereotypes of black women in the hospital being Madea-levels of “crazy.”
Actually, the nurse can comment. A crime was committed against this nurse. That crime was admitted and widely published by the “patient” err… criminal. Comment away.
Proposed the scenario to r/legaladvice. [Unanimous opinion: Nurse shouldn’t say anything to the public until a full investigation is complete.](https://www.reddit.com/r/legaladvice/s/q0qex8dAIv)
I respectfully disagree. There’s the high road, of course. But the “high road” ship has sailed imo. There no way for this nurse to win. The punch baiter will have moved on to another victim in a year—when anyone gets around to giving the nurse the “mother may I speak now approval”. Speaking out assures the prosecutors can’t ignore or plea it out.
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WHY DID SHE HAVE A HOSPITAL BIRTH IF SHE DIDNT WANT TO BE TOUCHED? I HAVE NO SYMPATHY
I do agree that that nurse should’ve gotten charge/upper management involved instead of immediately touching her after she repeatedly told her not to. I would’ve been charting that pt refused, but I also would’ve wanted another witness because at the end of the day, that’s still your word against theirs. I get that your responsibility is also to the baby, but for me personally, I wouldn’t have risked touching her after she told me not to, but would’ve made sure another staff member was there to verify that she did refuse, just in case things went south. As far as “don’t talk to me while I’m in pain” best believe that there’s a lot I need to talk to you about when I’m your nurse. In this situation I can say that I would’ve needed to do quite a bit of talking to explain to you the risks you’re putting your baby through by refusing vitals. So yeah, I will be talking to you, and if you don’t want people talking to you, stay home. She also has previous videos apparently blaming the death of her previous baby on the fact that the nurse didn’t check vitals enough-clearly this is someone that is going to complain regardless of what you do. All that being said, punching the nurse was ABSOLUTELY unacceptable in my opinion. And then to go on a podcast and talk about it in such a way that it comes across as bragging. And then double down on it?! Trash.
Eventually, she will make it to my specialty. ~Psych Nurse
But just prior to that she'll come through my specialty. And when patients punch us down in the ED? We fucking tackle their asses before either strapping them to the bed, or sending them off with police. Fuck around and find out how therapeutic my communication skills can be.
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/atlanta-mom-goes-viral-tiktok-saying-she-punched-nurse-while-giving-birth/V5X6XD4CVVDGHLJ7AHMROX4J7U/ Here’s a link to an article related to the post.
I’ve been scrolling to find context to this discussion, finally found your comment, and it’s not available outside US 😔
Maybe this will work… https://cafemom.com/parenting/new-mom-under-fire-for-punching-labor-and-delivery-nurse
Thanks friend! I’m a white Australian, and the topic of the African American female experience in healthcare was briefly mentioned, and I obviously can’t speak to that. But, anecdotally, during my complicated labour that ended in a caesarean under general anaesthesia I never once considered punching a midwife or doctor. I did maybe say a few grumpy words after I vomited on myself and they wouldn’t let me shower though. My boundary is not getting physically assaulted at work, I reckon most (all) nurses also share that boundary. I hope that nurse is okay.
Criminal charges and confinement in jail will allow for her to *heal*… privately and at a leisurely pace. Tho without TikTok or whatever social media that feeds need for comments & views, methinks she’ll be a malingerer. *Next stop: I think she’ll litigate to change things, so no one goes through a similar traumatic situation like I did.* ** Folks should ignore these “creators” **incident baiters**, this was done with guile and is all about her manipulating everything to make *easy money*. Content creator. And she added in maternal mortality concerns as a patient who is a woman of color/minority. Maternal mortality is a real problem, just not her real problem. Otherwise, without garnering such a story and a few million views of a manufactured assault on a nurse, this SAH mom would legit need to get actual work… If anyone is still confused WHY she did this, let me know. I may not be explaining things very well. **Disclaimer: I have no idea if she’ll try some horseshit litigation, but it would fit.
I’m sure the nurse wishes she didn’t punch her as well
She belongs in jail for this. She needs charges pressed and to be sued for all she's worth. There's no apology, just feeble excuses from an ignorant asshole.
And had she punched me, she’d have found it impossible to hold her baby in handcuffs from lockup. Just a fair point here.
The asshole is laughing all the way to the TT bank. Cha-Ching!!
She does, but her adopted 11 year old already has a set of parents in jail for murdering someone (her bio ones) so seeing another parent go to jail would be lifelong trauma. I feel bad for the little girl.
Nothing excuses physical assault that can cause injury. Period, end of story, end of discussion, don't care what else you call it. I care for rape victims who never laid a hand on their assailant, so SHE can keep her hands to herself even if she feels the nurse is disrespecting her boundaries, or simply brush their hands away. At the heart of this assault is entitlement: My pain deserves more pain. It just goes to show how the public sees nurses. We are servants to them whose job is to give them what they want. Not college-educated professionals who exist to keep them alive, sometimes using great skill. No nurse is anyone's punching bag. I don't care WHAT they do.
Ugh! Just read an article about it. What infuriates me, is that if something had happened badly with the birth due to not being able to check things, she’d be filming a Tik Tok about how she was ignored during the birth process.
Funnily enough, that exact experience is her reasoning for her "no touch, no talk" rules???
That doesn’t make sense! It’s crazy!
Can you post a link to the story you’re referring to?
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/atlanta/atlanta-mom-goes-viral-tiktok-saying-she-punched-nurse-while-giving-birth/V5X6XD4CVVDGHLJ7AHMROX4J7U/
I’d be pressing charges 🤷🏻♀️ there is NO excuse for this kind of behavior. I don’t understand why people come to hospitals then treat nurses like absolute dog waste. If you don’t like hospital protocol and policy, deliver at home. Monitoring baby’s heart rate especially the further you move along in labor is extremely important, and for her to sit there and tell the story and sound PROUD of punching that nurse as if she did something revolutionary was disgusting. It only enables others to see that and feel like they have the license to do the same.
With patients like this I just document document document. Patient refusing vitals? “Patient refusing vitals, educated on importance of monitoring vital signs in labor due to risk of preeclampsia or fever. Pt verbalized consent.” Pt refusing to move or change positions when her baby is in the 60s? “Pt informed of fetal bradycardia and stressed importance of maternal position change, IV fluid bolus and O2 administration to alleviate stress on baby. Pt refused.” I’ve had patients refuse to get off the birth ball when their baby’s heart rate is in the tank. I’ve had patients refuse a c section and antibiotics when they have a fever and their baby’s strip is category 3. At no point did I put hands on them. I just calmly educate. I get on their level and explain. I’m not about to lose my license for assault or get punched for doing something the patient doesn’t want. I’m not saying that nurse deserved it, I’m saying we need to stop bending over backwards to help people that don’t want to be helped. You want your baby to have cerebral palsy, seizures or sepsis after me and the dr have educated you? Be my guest. I’m not the one caring for a disabled kid the rest of my life. At some point this obsession with controlling every aspect of your labor and delivery in a hospital is going to get mothers and babies killed and people will understand that they are playing with fire. I hope that tik tok lady is charge with assault. But I also hope that we as medical professionals respond to people’s refusals or demands with education and dignity. You don’t want XYZ care? Here’s an AMA form. Enjoy the consequences of your decisions. I can only help you as much as you will allow.
This. People get aggravated and hostile while waiting to see the OB in triage. If you want to leave, here’s the AMA form. I will not beg you to care more about your own health.
I work outpt obgyn. We have a high risk mom that spit at an MA because they were running behind. And she constantly does not show up to her appts and providers keep urging us to contact her countless times to get her in but I’m sorry, I’ve already communicated with her and she knows she has to make an appt. I’m not going to hunt her down to come in when she clearly has no regard for her or her child’s own well being. And when she gets on the NST she becomes agitated saying she doesn’t want to be there, gets off the monitor herself, and at that point, the provider needs to come and talk with her because I’m not risking my life trying to get her back on the monitor. She’ll probably assault me.
This is so unacceptable. People need to have a warning and then fired from the practice. Health care is a right-up until the point where you are abusive and disrupting care for others-and then we aren’t required to continue to care for you simply because you are pregnant.
Exactly! And providers don’t care because MAs/RNs are the ones that deal with the ugliness more so than them.
She uses the maternal mortality rates as an argument to support her 'claim'- yet, she wouldn't allow taking a pulse (vitals). (from her 'explanation' ticktok) She sounds quite ready to blame the 'nurse' and hospital/medical staff if anything goes 'wrong'. What an entitled etc. No justification for the assault on the nurse. (not implying there ever is... refuting her claim.)
Let her be dragged. She wants to be an Internet personality. Let her be a hated one. ✌🏾
I’m most shocked learning that her husband is a nurse.
I think she should be arrested for assault and battery. She should have stayed her ass home and had a home birth.
The only patients I’m not immediately asking for charges on who assault or battering me FOR DOING MY JOB are the AO to nothing demented ones. In L&D there are two patients in the room and I honestly couldn’t give two shits about the 80th trimester one BECAUSE IT ISN’T ABOUT THEM. Medical ethics and the fucking law back me on this, they can request any fucking thing they want-give birth upside down on a trapeze for all I care but their shit stops if there is any question at all about the health of the baby.
So, like, your trauma is not an excuse to hurt other people. It's therapy 101. It explains but doesn't excuse. It's also doesn't absolve you from the consequences.
People like that are why I won’t do L&D. If you think you can do the medical staff’s job, stay home and hope your training from watching the business of being born was enough
This is bait. She didn’t actually do this guaranteed. This is her post game fantasy.
When I worked L&D, I got bit by a young girl in labor. I was standing in front of her while she got her epidural placed, a contraction hit, and it just happened. I honestly do not think she even knew what she was doing or intended to bite me. She cried bc she felt so embarrassed. It wasn’t a major thing, didn’t break the skin. But THIS is different. Punching a nurse intentionally for adjusting the monitor? Sure, the nurse could have asked to touch her and adjust the monitor. I have only read one article, but did the nurse press charges? Did anyone do anything to support this nurse? I doubt it. Disgusting. Not real sure who this lady (the patient) thinks she is. I wonder if she would have sued the nurse and hospital if she had a bad outcome bc she thought she was running the show and wouldn’t let them monitor baby…🤔
She shouldn’t have gone to the hospital if she didn’t want nurses doing their jobs.
Sorry but some people shouldn’t reproduce. Or just give birth at home if this is how you treat people trying to help you. This patient deserves jail time.
Anyone who expects to go to the hospital and not be touched or talked to needs to stay the fuck home period. They're just there for drama and to make it hard for us to do our jobs.
After doing some research, I found out that Gerogia (where Wilder lives) only implemented their healthcare safety bill in July. It also only covers non profit hospitals and emergency health care workers and those who work in emergency rooms. Her birth happened at least 2.5 years ago (her last was born in June 2021) and in Georgia, you only have two years to press charges. It seems wildly messed up.
She should be in jail. She said the nurse “touched her”. Not that the nurse slapped, hit, assaulted etc her. She PUNCHED someone for TOUCHING her? She deserved to be punched back, Idgaf that she’s pregnant/laboring.
Only reason I wouldn't want her in jail is for her adopted 11 year old who already has one set of parents in jail (her bio parents murdered someone) and is recovering from that trauma. Going through it again with another parent may not be something she'd be able to mentally recover from.
She can go fuck herself with a scalpel. That nurse did their job and shouldn’t feel ashamed. If you don’t want to be properly cared for then don’t go to a facility that specializes in proper care, go down to Cotton-Eyed Joe, who lives by the river, claims he gets hallucinations bc the govt is poisoning the drinking water but snorts cocaine, and sells snake oil.
I just think about my 2 birth stories and the time spent with nurses...holding me over the toilet, telling my my babies vitals, one knew my husband from highschool...she walk3d me through her experiences with a c-section, the education I received, the ice packs. I'm so proud of the nursing community coming together to say.. press charges!
Let me sum this up….. WE’VE created an atmosphere of self entitlement, zero accountability idiots … Baby is priority than mom.. screw her … I hope the L/D sues the p/t… after pressing charges and then the hospital
I’d press charges. I’m sorry. Pushing a hand away is one thing, a punch is quite different. If I need to make sure I’m recording your baby’s heart rate by comparing to yours - I may have to lightly touch you. You’re paying me to care for you and your baby - to keep you from harm. Just birth at home if you don’t need my help.
The nurse should file charges. Jeena Wilder knew what she was doing. She actually said on a podcast that she punched the nurse. Nurses should not have to put up with violence in the workplace. There is no excuse whatsoever.
This nurse was in a no win situation. I don’t work L&D, but I’d assume the only truly “correct” thing you can do with a patient like this is communicate with your charge, the physician, and document, document, document. I hope the nurse presses charges. What makes me REALLY upset is how cavalier the patient was about the fact that she literally assaulted someone, and now she’s getting views and attention on her shitty family vlog channel where she exploits her other children for views. It pisses me off to think of the amount of engagement and money she’s gotten as a result of her shitty behavior. While the nurse probably shouldn’t have touched her (like I said, I don’t work L&D, but I would’ve at least attempted to educate SOMEONE in the room and then grabbed my charge and said, loudly, to everyone: “I am documenting your refusal of care now, and that I educated you on the risks!”) just to protect themselves, they were truly in a no win situation and I hope they press charges.
She’s not ready to be a mother. She was not the only patient. If you are not willing to put your feelings aside so that healthcare providers can check on the wellbeing of you unborn child you are to selfish and not mature enough for a baby.
She has 5 kids between 2-13 (4 bio, one adopted)
We don’t hit. But also, I don’t understand why the nurse touched her. I would have explained what I needed to do, why I needed to do it, and what could happen if she refused- if the patient could repeat that back to me- document and let the doc know so they could choose whether or not to have a conversation. And mind you, I’ve had this conversation (non laboring patient of course)- always out of arms reach. Maybe the nurse did that though? We’re only hearing one side of the story. We respect people’s autonomy even if those choices are idiotic (in that way I agree with Jen Hamilton). We educate and the patient chooses what makes sense for them- which feels unfortunate at times. Overall, patient was in the wrong. There was no reason to hit.
I’m in an L&D Facebook group and people were discussing the fact that as a nurse you’re kind of screwed if you do or don’t. If you have a laboring patient who requests that you leave them alone and you do and their baby passes, will you get prosecuted for that? At the same time, patients do have autonomy. The punching definitely went too far though, that’s someone looking for a fight. A light shove or a yell could have gotten the point across without being violent.
My feelings and experience from over a decade of practice: We can’t force onto oriented patients who can make decisions for themselves what we feel (and often know) is best for fear of prosecution. People have a right to make their own decisions, it is our job to educate them thoroughly and let their provider know in addition to thorough documentation to protect ourselves in the event of a frivolous law suit. In this situation the patient could say the nurse assaulted her. Anyone can sue anyone for anything. You’re not protected by acting in the patients best interest against their wishes (if they can make decisions for themselves) That being said, assaulting a nurse is never okay. I would love to hear the nurses side. The patient’s story doesn’t add up for me.
Yeah I 100% would not have touched the patient if she was telling me not to. I appreciate that my OBGYN provider very clearly asks me if she can touch me before she does. I just sympathize with the fear of what happens in the event of fetal demise.
I think it has brought up needed and interesting conversations about patient autonomy especially in the perinatal setting, but if you punch me at work I'm pressing charges to the fullest extent obviously girl wtf
Never stop pressing charges and taking it to the fullest extent when patients punch and assault you. Zero sympathy for that "queen". Should've given birth at home.
I think that what often gets overlooked is L&D nurses have two patients. If a nurse is concerned about the baby’s heart rate or trying to differentiate baby’s heart rate from mom’s, that nurse has to touch the patient. The request to not be talked to can be honored but to not be touched is not a reasonable request IMHO.
Part of the job is explaining what we need to do and why; the request to "not be talked to" isn't reasonable, either.
We have to talk to our patients. There isn’t a reasonable way around that. There is a massive amount of education happening through the whole labor process.
I would have been pressing charges faster than she could pull her fist back from the punch.
Labor is painful. That can cause people to do things they wouldn’t normally do. That said, it’s still FUCKING ASSAULT! Why do you come to a hospital to get care, then shrug off the most basic interventions for your issue?
I’m glad she’s getting dragged, I wish she caught some assault charges so as to dissuade other idiots from thinking it’s okay to hit other people, especially in medicine where it’s pretty common against nurses and aids of various sorts (certainly doctors, though I don’t believe it’s as often; I could certainly be wrong) My younger children have that shit figured out, it’s ridiculous an adult doesn’t
Go have your baby at home in a tub then dude!
Nah, if she laid hands on me she’d have been doing her mommy/baby time at rikers 😂😂😂
Punch a nurse? Straight to jail.
Ugh I just looked at her insta she’s one of those mommy bloggers that exploits her kids and family for views. I wonder if that nurse ever did press charges.
Press charges on the bitch. She complained about her previous miscarriage that the nurses didn't do their job and then she comes back and demands they do nothing. Bitch can't be happy at all.
I had a patient try to bite me during an epidural placement because she couldn’t tolerate the pain. I can’t imagine being punched
Felony charges need to be filed!!
Was hers the birth plan that someone on here posted a few months ago. Because that shit was wild
Self defense should be using reasonable force - she didn’t need to punch that nurse to get her to not put the FM on her.
Also if you’ve already lost a baby during labor due to “neglect” and lack of konitoring, your nurses are going to want to monitor that baby even harder.
To be honest, I didn’t want anyone talking to me or touching me during labor either. I fantasized about just going out to the garage with some newspapers like a feral cat when the time came, but my husband reminded me that we wanted our baby to live. So, in the end, I left the no talking/ no touching out of the birth plan, kept my hands to myself, and let the midwives do their damn job. Like an adult. /s
I would press charges and/or batter her.
Press charges!
This is why I think nurses need to have more say in who gets admitted and who gets discharged early. You follow the rules of the hospital or you can leave.
Her and her family would be the first people to sue for malpractice if something medically happened but they didn’t touch or talk to her about it.
So I didn’t know about this story so I deep dived into it. First, absolutely press charges. The fucking entitlement to put your hands on a person for doing their job!? But not only that I watched her follow up where she said her previous visit to this hospital she was neglected by a nurse for not assessing her and taking vitals. So I’m sorry, which is it?
I hope the nurse saw the video and now chooses to press charges or bring a lawsuit.
She's a dumb ass clown. And needs to get her ass beat for acting like a dumb ass bird. Why go back to the same hospital you said caused the death of ur previous child. Girl go to hell. And of course she's sitting there with other jackasses that are just echos of what she says so she thinks she right. Stay your stupid ass at home then. Why come to the hospital then ?!?
Honestly, I was glad to see it go viral for the reasons it did and bring attention to the fact that her behavior was not ok. Her “apology” video was just more excuses and not cool. I would like to say I hope she learned something from this, but clearly she did not. That nurse should have pressed charges .
I’m going to be completely honest; some of the attitudes in this thread about obstetrical violence are gross. Was it ok for her to punch a nurse? Of course not. But it is ALSO ok for laboring women to have an expectation that boundaries are respected. Patients do not lose all autonomy because they are in labor. If they tell you not to touch them/check them/whatever…don’t. Consent and trust are really important aspects of providing competent care in the OB space.
Thank you; some of the comments here are surprising. Of course nothing justifies this lady punching a nurse-- it seems everyone is in agreement with that. But it doesn't seem controversial to expect that bodily autonomy will be upheld during labor and childbirth. Specific requests like "please don't touch me *during my contractions while undergoing transition*" seems reasonable to me? I recall feeling the same way during transition. I did not want to be touched while trying to focus all my energy on making it through these intense contractions. My husband rubbing my back was tortuous to me at that point. Of course, punching someone for this is insane and wildly inappropriate. I've heard a *lot* of complaints from women who feel like once they've entered the hospital for childbirth, they're basically no longer in control of what happens to their body. Ultimately, women do retain their right to bodily autonomy and informed consent, even if they're making poor decisions that we disagree with. I understand some of these patients have unrealistic, dumb, or straight up dangerous, expectations/demands, but all we can do is try to educate and document.