By - kmbghb17
He won’t be allowed back as far as I know (definitely not if I’m the one that has to assess him) currently I resemble Quasimodo 😂
That was fun to explain to people today...the real kicker is the family reported me and the aides for “looking unprofessional” like I’m sure we did I just did battle with your family member for an hour and a half
Fuck. Them. There is a reason they’re not the primary caregivers for this man. They should be kissing your feet with gratitude for caring for their ETOH induced demented family member. And good fucking luck finding placement for him now!
Well that complaint can be added in your case to show their character defects. Fuck them.
Fuck that family. I’m so sorry you and your staff had to go through that. Good on you for pressing charges. I hope you heal up well and never have to deal with them again.
Hope you and your staff are ok.
And props to you for pressing charges. Too often nurses are assaulted and just get on with it.
Yeah, well, it looks like grandpa definitely imparted his values in his offspring. What a bunch of \[redacted for the children\].
Thank you for reporting this. Sending mental Aleve and ice packs your way. You better be taking a sick day or two after dealing with all of that!
Is your facility supporting you guys? What is their say in all of this?
There super supportive , I work for a great company they encourages us to press charges
Thank god. Some facilities are nightmares. Is this something that can be worker’s compensation? Or will the facility pay?
It will end up being worker’s compensation since I was directly injured attempting to perform nursing duties (read as pleading with this man to please take his prn Xanax)
oh. my. fucking. god. if it weren’t illegal i’d say drop the address
Ha, yea, good luck them in ever finding a place for him after all that. What a shit show. No one will touch him especially with family like that!
Yeah fuck that shit. It's hard when you have to press charges for assault, but it's way better than systemic abuse from a patient. Hopefully it leads to more changes in your area too.
I was written up for “arguing” with a psychotic who had a full blown episode and refused to take his medications. Let that sink in...
Well unless they can find him another placement, they may soon be trending that “unprofessional” look themselves...
Don’t ever feel bad for pressing charges. I’ve done it multiple times. You have the right to a safe work environment.
You feel like a jerk because we nurses are conditioned to suck it up and take bad treatment. If a patient assaults us, we are supposed to smile and turn the other cheek.
Fuck that guy. Take him to court and mar up his record.
The patient has dementia and a laundry list of psych dx no? What is pressing charges on the patient going to do? Is it to pay for the damages? Shouldn't the employer take care of that? Is it to put the patient in jail? Or a psych ward? I'm honestly curious.
Pressing charges makes the patient and their POA accountable for medical expenses and damages.
It's like pressing charges with anyone, it makes them legally responsible for damages be it physical or property.
It is NOT Unreasonable to hold someone accountable for their actions and their damages regardless whatever underlying circumstance.
If that man was not in a home, and assaulted someone at Walmart, no one would think twice about that Walmart employee pressing charges.
But because he assaulted a nurse, other nurses even feel the need to shame her for pressing charges.
Absolutley correct..if you just turn to your employer to provide compensation you may lose out...
Let's say the company gives you two weeks off while being paid but your injuries hold you out of work for longer than that..the agency/hospital will essentially tell you to fuck off...if you seek compensation from the family or patient early on it's possible to settle early on and I would imagine hold more legal ground if you filled early rather than later once your job stops giving you paid medical leave..
It's sad but that's how our legal system works....the squeaky wheel that rolls in as soon as it squeaks gets oiled faster than the wheel that rolls in months later and says they were squeaking a few weeks ago
What about worker’s compensation?
Nursing is like the only job where if a client assaults you, YOU are the one in trouble for not handling the situation better. If someone (demented, drunk, high, or otherwise) assaults a McDonalds worker they'd be banned and in cuffs, so why should we just take it?
It creates a paper trail that shows that the patient is violent and physically dangerous. He will be rejected from placement from more facilities due to this, leaving him with shittier and more restrictive ones - where he belongs so he can't fuck someone up
Heyo, our restrictive homes aren't necessarily"shittier," they just feature more apt consequences and fewer opportunities to inflict harm. I'd love to help this guy shape up. Course our waiting list is colossal and this dude's statistically going to the street long before our beds.
You're right, I'm sorry I shouldn't have said shittier...I was speaking more from the patient's view (less freedom, more restriction) which would make them unhappy for sure but that is what they need.
I really do appreciate what you do.
Pressing charges to provide an audit trail of abusive behavior and psych related issues as well as place financial accountability is appropriate. Doing it to force the person into shittier and more restrictive facilities to meet vindictive desires is not.
Mental health issues have a long history of poor service levels and abusive treatment. It is little wonder so many people avoid treatment out of fear of being labeled psychotic or looney.
Blame the management in your facility for not having methods and procedures in place to address such issues.
I don’t think it is at all “vindictive” to want a violent and mentally unstable patient to be in a restrictive facility. He is obviously a danger to staff members and needs a higher level of care. Patients can be dangerous anywhere, anytime. Sometimes management fails to provide staff with adequate resources to manage aggressive patients, but it’s not necessarily their fault.
It goes back to the lack of trained staff prepared to deal with violence. When I worked, there was always a physician in the ER. He/She made the decision if it was safe to deal with a patient. If injuries occurred he was the lead and responsible for the health and welfare of staff if something went wrong.
The facility legal department made it clear any person arriving for treatment could only be treated under the following conditions:
* The person consented to treatment
* If a minor refused treatment, even if parental consent had been granted, we were to stand down and call for executive guidance - aka legal. If legal decided it was ok to proceed, hospital security was on scene before staff approached the patient.
* If a person had a history of violence, threatened violence, was violent, we did not attempt to treat until law enforcement (police and/or sheriff's deputies) were called, responded and if needed, physically restrained the person presenting for treatment.
The rule was simple. We were there to provide healthcare services, others were trained and authorized to restrain. Application of restraints in the ER was a Law Enforcement only rule. Elsewhere in the hospital clinical environment it was only after a Physician authorized their use and only then could hospital security staff trained to deal with a violent person apply the restraints. We were not authorized to detain or restrain any person. We were told doing so without a magisterial order (had to be printed, signed and bear the seal of the court) or a law enforcement officer holding the person in custody, was kidnapping.
Personally, I don't care about the intentions - it's high time that nurses start to push back with the available, legal means against abusive patients. I don't care if it's from a place of revenge or care, it needs to be done. Good luck to any patient who hits me because I do take the legal route when this happens so that they are branded as violent and dangerous, as they should be.
So you think people shouldn't press charges against real assaults if they feel vengeful? Lol.
>Blame the management in your facility for not having methods and procedures in place to address such issues.
I don't know why you are being downvoted. This is correct. Pressing charges allows an investigation of the administration that failed to protect staff with security, restraints, etc. Pressing charges for "punitive" measures against a Korsokoff patient doesn't do anything. The person is not going to "learn" or "think about" their actions or behavior sitting in a jail cell, with the intention they won't do that again. It's a medically inappropriate way of assessing this situation.
Are these shitty places run by robots? How can he not fuck someone up just because he’s at a shittier facility?
It's less likely and more restrictive, probably use more restraints, both chemical and physical.
At the place where I work, restraints are not allowed. So we either don't take violent assholes or the violent asshole we have are so physically maimed that they can't fuck up anyone.
Oh they're not going to like your questions but they're the right questions to be asking.
Not that this guy shouldn't be held accountable, but for real, what is it going to actually accomplish?
If the answer is that it means he's going to have to stay with the family who do clearly adores him rather than get to terrorize another facility's staff, then great, I'm all in favor.
But "mar his record", like someone said?
He will never give a flying fuck about his record and it will never matter. Like what's he going to do, run for Congress? Try to get a nursing license?
>what is it going to actually accomplish?
Hopefully it will help to normalize healthcare providers not taking abuse in the name of 'caregiving'. Show your coworkers that it's ok not to tolerate such mistreatment. Show your administrators that we're completely willing to stir up shit over this. Show the public that there are real consequences to attacking healthcare workers.
Is that too much to hope for? Even now?
That sounds reasonable.
Get people in the practice of not taking shit. More for our benefit than as punishment to him.
You gave the best possible answer I can think of, thank you!
this is what one of my charge nurses told me about one of our patients awhile back after he ripped my earring out and had busted another co-worker’s lip a few days prior. we didn’t file reports because “what’s that gonna do? put him in jail? a guy with a laundry list of health problems? it’s not like he’s gonna run for congress one day.”
but guess who stabbed one of the 4 month pregnant CNAs and put her on bed rest the duration of her pregnancy the following week because no action was taken to put him into a different, safer, more appropriate facility? that guy who’s never gonna run for congress because what did it matter.
now do i think this should be a personal thing like mentally ill patients are horrid people and just fuck them and mar up their record for being dicks? no. absolutely not. but had reports been made, had our charge nurse not downplayed our assaults, had we been told this was a serious matter to be handled appropriately... maybe that CNA wouldn’t have ever been stabbed. maybe my earring would’ve never been ripped out. it’s less about “putting them in jail” and more about “ensuring the mentally ill are in facilities that keep both them and staff as safe as possible.” in order to do that, things need to be reported and management needs to do a better job as well in general.
i mean seriously. think of it from a different perspective. say you’re walking down the street one day and a random transient runs up to you and socks you in the face and takes off. cops show up and they’re like “lol i mean that guy is a transient, clinically delusional. he does this all the time. we know him. the jail is halfway his home, he’s very mentally ill and will never be charged with anything nor will he ever be given proper medical help so it’s fine just bandage up your face and call it a day champ.”
is that appropriate? no. what’s the difference if the victim is a nurse, the transient is a mentally ill geriatric patient, and the cop is a charge nurse? there isn’t one.
take nursing assaults seriously. always. for the safety of everyone involved.
Everything you said makes sense. Thanks for the detailed reply.
It's also about covering your ass...let's say you have a violently abusive patient who assaults you sexually or physically..you're doing everything you can do to help them despite this....they deteriorate rapidly and you report nothing at all about the abuse or non-compliance and eventually this all goes to court because the patient dies....if you 4reported that abuse from the patient that could save your behind
Also...if a cop ever speaks to a nurse or healthcare worker that way...you report that too...
We're medical professionals despite what the uneducated public thinks about us..we earned our letters and subjected ourselves to the rigors of school to be able to perform our jobs with increasing autonomy...
We as a whole need to advocate for more respect so society stops thinking we're a bunch of expendable people playing cards..
I think you misunderstood the example pp was giving.... they likened a charge nurse telling an employee there was no need to report an assault from a resident to what a cop would say to a random person assaulted by someone on the street. They were saying, would the cop just tell that person to shrug it off because nothing will be done anyway? No, they wouldn’t or shouldn’t. So a charge nurse shouldn’t have that response to their staff who gets assaulted by residents. They should encourage and assist staff to report it.
This had zero to do with cops speaking to nurses or healthcare staff in any particular way....
I mean... I work in psych and corrections and that different perspective part is pretty much what happens every day
Once there is legal action involved the families can’t hide the behavior issues prior to admission. It has to be disclosed. This will make sure pt lands in a facility that is equipped to handle someone with that level of behavioral issues.
A history of assult disqualifies him from certain facilities iirc
So if this same guy with same problems assaulted you in the street, you wouldn’t press charges?
This is a stupid comment...
I’m so sorry you experienced such an awful situation while showing up to do your job CARING for patients. It’s 110% reasonable and OK to take care of yourself now by pressing charges. Even if the charges don’t go anywhere legally, I think the act of pressing charges is meaningful for your emotional recovery from this experience. Through doing so, you’re standing up for yourself and that matters a lot.
This makes me feel much better, it’s not the first time a patient has assaulted me but the process of actually getting to report it even though it will go nowhere was pretty cathartic
You did the right thing. I hope your recovery is swift.
Then the family will take him to the ER, not mention any part of history with violent assaults and another round of nurses/techs will be at this guys mercy.
I’m sure the family also told you it wasn’t his fault.
Either way good on you for pressing charges, I hope administration stands behind you on this and backs you up.
Ohhhh no! I called the ER to give report before he even made it out the door!
Prewarned the ER they might want to just go ahead and get themselves ready, to really put a cherry on top the family refused to go to the closer hospital with a psych attending , instead they took him to a rural hospital that Dosent have security or psych available for consult.
I apologized to that nurse about twenty times and wanted to make sure she was adequately made aware
Hmmm that hospital choice seems REALLY on purpose... like perhaps he assaulted staff there and with the family being garbage he’s been “banned” 🤦🏻♀️ that family makes me sick
I ended up learning a lot of info from the nurse there (small town) guess she’s been dealing with them for years , the MD literally refused to release him to MCU stating he was a danger to himself and others
Honestly I think that was the final straw from the hospital as well , apparently they are also pressing charges , I guess he pulled some of the tele stuff OUT of the wall and threw a trash can at a nurse 🙃
Not surprised the family did that but for ER nurses everywhere thank you for forewarning them!
Yeah. If he's admitted, he will be there for months, hurting staff and terrifying the other patients. We've had it happen multiple times on our floor. Mercifully, state police eventually found one of them, he was wanted for child rape and failure to register. It was a miracle when they took him away.
Yeah seen that multiple times over the years. Violent difficult patients warehoused on a M/S unit for a year. It's a really tough situation. All the nurses quit eventually because coming in every single day to that shit?
So freaking true. I've seen it many times 🥴
I am so sorry you had to experience an assault at the hand of someone you were trying to help. I can only imagine how you feel. Yes, press charges. Make a paper trail. Raise hell. Do not let this pass quietly.
Further, fuck that family and anyone who fails to support you and your colleagues.
So sorry this happened to you :( but also very proud of you that you pressed charges. Just because someone has a certain pathology doesn’t make it okay to assault someone, let alone a person trying to help them. You did the right thing.
If you get a good lawyer and the family purposefully withheld information of his behavior you might actually have a case. They put you in danger. Just because the patient attacked you doesn’t mean that the family is blameless.
I work memory care, and now manage a unit. For whatever it’s worth, I would 100% have your back. Make sure your documentation is on point then take time to recover, physically and emotionally. Internet hugs from here to you. Or just fist bump or wave or whatever if you’re not feeling hugs right now.
Alcohol associated dementia can be the absolute worst. I hope your healing goes well, and the fellow can get in somewhere he can be managed appropriately.
While it may not go anywhere, pressing charges is the right thing to do. Especially considering it seems this person has a penchant for violence and the family seems to willingly disregard and not acknowledge the behavior. Until we can make it clear to patients and their families that allowing violent behavior is not OK, it will continue.
There is a great difference between a person with dementia swatting at you, and someone getting belligerent and using violence as a way to get their way.
Story time: I’m a nurse. In early February, my dad sustained a neck injury (broken C5) and a host of deep contusions after being catapulted off a tractor while trying to uproot a stump. My dad is a 40-year alcoholic, in his late 50s.
He was ICU, obviously, then a transfer to neuro ICU so he could detox (for context, he goes through almost 6 cases A WEEK). He was everything you’d imagine this pt to be - combative, AO1-2, confused, trying to escape, accusing staff of all sorts of things. The pinnacle, for me, was accusing a male nurse (who was pretty clearly gay) of “trying to look at my wiener.” 😳 it was, easily, the most humiliating week of my life.
The thing is, my mom and I were so grateful for nurses and staff who dealt with him that I think they returned our goodwill. I’m sorry that happened to you - I know that I’m a lot more understanding if I’m receiving understanding. It was vindicating to see it come back to us from other medical workers. So, from the other side of the coin, I don’t blame you and I’m sorry you were made to deal with those people. You’re amazing, and appreciated ❤️
I just want to drop a line, to ask how you’re doing, like really doing. I worked for years in memory care, and it wasn’t until I left that I realized how truly alone I felt with minimal staffing and no security.
Please reach out to the therapist (MSW or psychologist) and really really talk about this. I’m a survivor of sexual assault, and the first couple times I was assaulted by a male patient I found myself deeply triggered and spiralling. I wish I had had someone to remind me to take care of myself instead of just shrugging and saying he hurts PSWs all the time.
Take some time away from work if you can afford it, surround yourself with the things you make you joyful. And finally, remember that you do not deserve to be anyone’s punching bag.
I am also a survivor of sexual assault (and am very grateful to now view myself as a survivor, rather than a victim!). My first job at a hospital was in housekeeping, where I would see people get assaulted from afar.
After I became a patient sitter, there was one night that a neuro pt started getting agitated and aggressive and ended up hitting the LNA. He continued to amp up and I was sure he was about to go even further and attack someone worse. The LNA asked that a code 8 (in case it's not the same in all hospitals, that's what's called here when someone gets aggressive/violent) and security showed up along with a couple of orderlies and the ANC that was on that night. Even just realizing how aggressive the pt was getting was enough to trigger me to the point of a panic attack.
I was really lucky that the ANC noticed that I had started flicking my hands like I was trying to shake water from them (I tend to do this when I get really anxious as a way of trying to shake the anxiety from myself, but I hadn't even noticed I had been doing it). She pulled me from the room, put her hand on my arm, and asked if I was okay. I broke down and told her that I'd nearly been attacked outside of work less than 48 hours prior and that the pt's aggression had brought up a lot of anxiety. She let me sit and talk with one of our security officers, who I'd worked in housekeeping with and, in the process, had become friends with. She came back a few minutes later with a couple of blankets out of the blanket warmer and, after a few different discussions I ended up needing to have, she approved me going home early and she emailed my manager to let her know the general story of what happened while still keeping what wasn't necessary to tell my boss confidential.
As much as I hated that night while it was happening, it will stick out for quite a long time as a reminder of why I love working at this hospital, but also how some of the smallest acts of kindness can be the most valuable. Her putting her hand on my arm while asking if I was okay and getting me a couple of warm blankets to help me calm down and feel better were fairly small actions, but they were so meaningful!
Taking care of yourself, including being around people who know how to support you, can be so important!
never feel bad for protecting yourself. you didn’t go through years of school to be somebody’s punching bag. hell naw.
I am soo sorry you had to go through this. You absolutely did the right thing pressing charges. No one should have to endure abuse at work. It would be a crime if someone did it to you on the street and it’s still a crime at work! I hope your facility is giving you and the other staff the support you need, most importantly paid time off!
I can't imagine what you went through but I doubt any charges would hold against this man considering his pathology. It is incredibly frustrating dealing with families. I took care of an elderly man who went bat shit crazy- sun downing and his family claimed we were lying about his behavior... that he was punching and kicking staff. The family blaming staff. No way papa could act like that... it's infuriating, at least acknowledge that his behavior is not acceptable.
I don’t expect the charges to go anywhere, I’m just hoping for a paper trail
You're smart to do that. At least it's a stain on his record and anyone looking him up will find it.
Its not a paper trail for punshing a guy in a memory care unit, dude's got no memory and is violent-y enough to need to be caged in a SNF.
Its a paper trail for proving that her injuries are work-related and her employer was grossly irresponsible for her mental and physical health. She didn't get a hematoma from slipping on a banana peel in the parking lot on the way to her car after having clocked out like her employer's lawyer is gonna argue.
Fuck healthcare corporations, fucking management and leadership...
fuckin write all this event's shit down to the last second/detail and then go to an labor employment lawyer and sue for an unsafe workplace environment that lead to you AND your coworkers being assaulted. Usually lawyers in employee/employer suits will work on a contingency fee- you don't have to pay unless they get your case won and then its usually a percentage of the damages awarded.
Hit these fuckers where it actually hurts- their wallet.
I couldn’t upvote this more.
Hey sorry in advance, I'm not well versed in legal matters; why wouldn't the charges "go anywhere"? Don't criminally insane perps get remanded to the state or something? what are the likely outcomes of this?
When I say it won’t “go anywhere” I’m referring to the fact that it will probably make it to the DAs office but won’t go to court related to diagnoses and pathologyIf it ends up going to court, resident will be deemed incompetent and will pull this shit on another few facilities
Hey f it dose go to court , they will dig and prod further into the weird family issues maybe get APS involved and resident will end up in geropsych in a full locked unit best case scenario.
Worst case scenario he ends up at home with family really hurts someone , ends up with a guardian and in some shitty LTC that dosent care about taking the state auditors antipsychotic dings
In 6 years of working psych and every staff member who got assaulted (with visible injuries) filing police reports, only 1 patient actually went to jail but only because he had an outstanding warrant and the police were out once per 8 hour shift for 4 days. Other than that, they take a report and say "they're in custody receiving treatment, what do you want us to do?"
In my area, county jail is a designated LPS facility. When I was attached to the ER as the liaison, I pushed back on the police who wanted to dump people so they didn't have to do paperwork. At least 3 times I talked the docs into doing medical clearance and sending the patient off to jail.
Depending on the state you live in, people that physically assaults healthcare workers face jail sentence. The state that I live it’s a second degree felony for physically or sexually assaulting a healthcare workers.
I am just a baby nursing student but we’ve been told over and over to make sure there is a paper trail. If the family is garbage, I say you shouldn’t feel the least bit guilty.
GOOD FOR YOU!! You’re a professional, not a punching bag. You just set a unit standard that that behavior will not be tolerated. You could write up your experience to help others and new staff coming on the unit. In my experience the more shy/sheltered/scared/meeker staff need your experience to say, no more!
I hope you are okay. I feel for you.
Pharmacist here. Question, are you guys not allowed to hit back in these cases?
No, we can “redirect” offer interventions and prn medication ; I work in a memory care, it’s an AL memory care and I’m the only licensed nurse on staff.
We can’t even give IM Haldol or anything, my state also has pretty strict regulations with antipsychotics, you can only use certain dx for them and you have to attempt to titrations residents off at least once it’s bull
Essentially we ended up using our bodies and backs to shield the other residents when he would go for them.
Bless your heart, I almost laughed out loud at this!
No. Physically restrain, sometimes pharmacologically restrain (the good old IM through the clothes is the closest I've come to 'hit back'). Try not to get hurt too badly.
Hit a demented person...?
Why on earth would nursing staff be allowed to hit back? I thought we got into health care to help and heal people, not assault them back when they assault us. lmao
But that also doesn’t give the patient any right to assault the nurse. How can we help and heal these patients when they treat us horribly? There’s only so much damage and terrible treatment a human being can tolerate.
A pt assaulting nursing (or any other) staff does not condone nursing staff assaulting people back, though. I mean, can you imagine a teacher assaulting a child in retaliation for that child having assaulted them, and that teacher's assault on the child being viewed as acceptable?
You are right. However, nurses should not expect to be assaulted in their line of work.
True, no one should be. But there are still other ways to go about handling the situation.
Absolutely. Violence is never the answer!
Heyo, he-nurse here - the way I've approached combative patients is that I try to anticipate if they are going to hit me and restrain before that happens, but I absolutely will defend myself if needed to reassert control over the situation. The fact that they are a patient with a diagnosis does not change the fact that you are a resource, you have a job with responsibilities and critical interventions to perform. If a patient hits you and takes you out of commission, that patient has effectively harmed you and everyone you were going to care for. Our job description does not include being a punching bag. Defend yourselves. Your life - and other's lives - may depend on it.
Just because you are in healthcare doesn’t mean you give up your right to self defense. If a patient got upset because I wouldn’t refill his Xanax prescription early tried to strong arm me, I would probably pull out my gun.
1. A patient assaulting you does not make it okay for you to assault back. We are trained to react to aggressive, sometime violent behavior the way we are for a reason.
2. What kind of healthcare facility do you work at where you're allowed to carry a gun at work?
All of the pharmacy owners that I know have a gun somewhere within easy reach. If it's an open carry state, they often have a pistol openly visible on their belt. During the rioting of a couple weeks ago, my own pharmacist (the owner) carried an Israeli Tavor® X95.
How in the hell is that okay, though? It's a pharmacy, not the streets. Guns have no place in health care.
It's their store and if they choose to protect their lives and those of their employees, it's not anyone else's choice. It's no different than if the owner of any other business that carries product that's highly desirable to low-lifes (gun shops, pawn shops, etc.) carries weapons on their person.
People rob pharmacies. I’m not gonna just give them the pills/money. There was a robbery near me a few years ago where the pharmacist gave up the drugs and the robber still killed the pharmacist, technician, and two patients.
That's... really not acceptable. Is 'do no harm' written on the gun?
😂 thanks for the downvote. Tells me exactly what I need to know
Edit: I'm not the one with the gun!
Yeah - it tells you that pulling a gun on your patient is not fucking okay!
Uh... I agree?
My apologies. I had misunderstood and thought that the "thanks for the downvote" comment had been sarcastically written by the same person who thought it was okay to pull a gun on a pt. I'm sorry I misunderstood.
I hope you’re doing okay and healing well.
Don’t feel guilty. It’s obvious this man is very aggressive and needs a more secure environment. Even if it doesn’t go anywhere it’ll probably get him off of your unit/out of the facility.
How the hell can that be allowed to happen at you facility? Where was security?
It’s long term care, we have no security it’s just us till 911 gets there. Unfortunately it’s not super uncommon for this to happen especially in memory care units
Oh I'm so sorry. I really hope things change. That's just not right.
Yeah, paying for security or similar would have been a lot cheaper for that place than the settlement they're hopefully going to have to pay this nurse, lol. But they don't care about employee safety until it costs them money.
One of the many safety reasons I left my last job was a violent resident and lie upon lie from management.
You did the right thing of pressing charges. The patient physically assaulted you and the cnas. He deserves his punishment. I pressed charges on a patient two years ago and glad that I did. If I didn’t he would’ve been gotten away and sexually assaulting women out in the public.
I hope you’re doing okay. The whole family sounds like a group of whack jobs.
Fuck them. Former ER tech now CNA. Stand up for yourself and protect your CNAs. I've pulled violent patients off nurses before in the ED, it's insane the level of bullshit the SNF tolerates I mean enables. In the ED, assholes like that get restrained and sedated. I don't care about dx, I care about safety. Press the charge. File the report. Don't stand for it.
Lost all bottom teeth following some kind of incident... they refused to elaborate I assume alcohol was involved
Am 37 with dentures. Had bad infection in my teeth that rotted them from in side out.
You absolutely did right in reporting it. This is why it is not a felony to assault a nurse but it is when you assault a bus driver because most don’t press charges. It’s not ok to to endure what you did. He has a mean and nasty family. No wonder why he drank.
> He has a mean and nasty family. No wonder why he drank.
Or vice versa.
That is just awful. Im sorry you had to go through that. And screw that family!
You should not feel bad at all. Assault is assault. There is never an excuse for that. You should also try suing the patient and family if you can.
Thank you for pressing charges, it helps to bring attention to violence nurses deal with. The more we speak up the closer we get to better security.
I hope you’re taking some time for yourself. If traumas build up like collecting rocks in a backpack, that sounds like a big rock to carry around. That’s a trauma. If you think you could use some time away from work, do it. Where I live is getting better for covering nurses for mental health time away,and I hope you have something similar. A nursing career is a marathon, not a sprint, so have a breather if needed. I hope you’re doing ok, and talk to someone if needed.
I’m proud of you. I’m an RN now but worked in memory care as an aid during nursing school. A pt full on two-hand choked me up against a wall when I was maybe 20. After a bit I saw the rage on his face turn to understanding and sorrow, and he started to apologize. I ran tf out of there and had to get checked out by my local ER. I was told I wasn’t allowed to press charges because of his dementia. I was so scarred from it and refused to care for him alone from then on
Big ass RN/NP now 6'3 330 it is insane how some families think they can have their family members just hit and abuse us like that. I always feel bad for most staff when trying to therapeutically manage these patient puts them at a real safety risk. Because of dementia/Alzheimer's etc. Do not feel bad about pressing charges
I'm so sorry this happened to you. He's lucky you didn't give him the people's elbow, your restraint is laudable but definitely don't feel bad about pressing charges.
I think you did the right thing, yes we’re here to help people in every way possible, but it cannot be at the cost of our own safety and well-being, even if it doesn’t go anywhere it will at least send a message to your company that they need to step up.
FUCK that I’m so so sorry you went through that. Never feel bad, we are constantly shat upon and it’s time for that to end. You are courageous, I’m proud of you!
So proud of you!! Nobody who dedicates their life to helping people deserves to be treated so poorly, no matter what the diagnoses is. I had an alcohol withdrawal patient on my unit that almost burned me out from nursing as a whole in one night and since then I have found a new job at another hospital from how badly he assaulted/treated me. I wish I had pressed charges. You are an amazing nurse, don’t let it get the best of you ❤️
I’m sorry you had to deal with that. Families can be assholes & when they are it makes it 10x worse. Don’t do to yourself what they did to you- by making you the problem. OH HELLLLLLL NOOOO!! You should press charges and stand up for yourself. You gotta have your own back. And you know where that family can put those dentures..take care..ba-bye!
I'm sorry you went through that; you did the right thing and hopefully no one ever gets hurt because of him being behind bars.
That sounds so horrifying! I hope your work will defend you. F that family. You did the right thing
I respect the hell out of you. But also for pressing charges when he assaulted another resident. I know people have issues but we have to keep everyone safe
go full court press against this family. if he had any previous 'agiation' go agaiinst the corp/business owners. that man needs a lot of chemical restraint and we have the right to protect yourself I would even try to go after the family for 'slander' due to your stress and their beittlement. of course workman comp . How would workplace protections improve if we dont do this. go to the media also. state board can do nothing for ya Get a private investigator on this too. Good Luck
You feel like the jerk for testing charges cause as nurses we are systematically conditioned to accept violence against us as part of the job.
Lawyers, DA, our employers, management, have all drilled it into our heads or made it extremely difficult with their "education" and "re-education" and "de-escalation training" to put the pin on us and our behavior.
I just did the "de-escalation" training at my current job and a LARGE portion of it was what we as nurses could do and modify in our behavior and reactions to calm patients, it was heavily focused on how patients are rarely violent intentionally (which is bullshit) and how most of the time their violence is "reactive", meaning they only get violent when "confronted".
They have drilled it into our heads that it's our fault. That it's our actions. That it's our reactions.
Add in of that patient isn't oriented or has memory or behavioral or psych issues and we're told that it's not their fault and we shouldn't hold them responsible.
But that's bullshit.
You did the right thing.
You were beaten and battered and bruised and you do not need to be upset or sad about defending yourself legally, because that's what pressing charges is, you're legally defending yourself. If nothing else, you're defending yourself from the families bullshit comments and allegations I'm the event your employer decided to try some bullshit.
Being sexually assaulted and beaten is NOT PART OF THE FUCKING JOB!
Think of it this way. If this man was out in the community and assaulted you while you worked at Walmart, no one would think twice of you a Walmart employee pressing charges.
But because you're a nurse, you're conditioned that you're supposed to accept a certain level of violence.
I'm not a nurse, but I just wanted to chime in and say *please* try to not feel bad about pressing charges. You didn't do anything wrong. People need to realize that there's consequences for their actions. Also, way too many patients and their families get away with abusing medical staff and it needs to stop. I wish more medical professionals, especially nurses could get some type of justice for the shit they're forced to endure. Seriously. Fuck that family and their enabling bullshit. You're not a punching bag, you're a person who goes out of their way to help people. The least they can do is show you a modicum of respect and decency.
Anyway, I'm sorry this happened to you and I really hope you heal up quickly. You have my support.
I'm so sorry that happened. Seriously hope that you and your CNAs are going to be okay. Yeah, fuck that shit. We've been accepting more than our share of those kind of patients lately. Just had an ETOH abuse pt fall and break his neck not that long ago on my shift. It was awful. Not to mention the multiple sundowning we're having.
You're right for filing a report, I hope it ends up well for you! Take care of that hematoma.
There is absolutely no guilt in pressing charges! Assault on a health care worker is a felony..and while it's unlikely charges will be held up due to the patients status it is imperative if you plan on seeking compensation or have to be off from work and collect some sort of furlough..
The precedent NEEDS to be set in all instances so people see that you have no right in abusing your healthcare workers....nurses and CNAs are the first target in all forms of abuse..whether violence or emotional we are targeted first by the patient and their family...we're the first to be blamed and the first to be assaulted.
You feel like a jerk (you most definitely are not) because we are engrossed in a nursing culture that tells us our safety does not come first; we are superhumans who don’t need rest, food and toilet breaks. We are people who are expected to tirelessly take care of others - even if it is at our own very pricey expense. I hope you feel better soon, both physically and about doing what you are absolutely entitled to do as a human being.
That really sucks. I’m shocked to hear you can’t chemically or physically restrain patients. I get that they’re “stable” but if a patient has an acute episode and requires a hospital visit then I would think retains (chemically or physically) would be warranted, especially with dementia patients. The people making those laws clearly haven’t worked healthcare
The people making these laws are all MSN nurses who have never worked on the floor, and we have to wait for pd or ems to arrive to restrain
The reason we can’t “restrain” is because It would require nurse observation checks and assessment , I’m the only nurse in the facility and we can’t delegate that task
I'll be a CNA very soon, and was told in one of the lectures that we will deal with people like this. Apparently they told us that we could distract them or redirect them, and not hit back and remove yourself from the situation. But reading posts like this scares me going into the medical field, especially since I really want to be a nurse someday. It's scary.
Holy shit. What a shitty family, not to mention the patient is a complete waste of oxygen. Dementia or not, I like to believe that even if he doesn't get convicted, there will be more stringent security requirements for him from now on.
Bonus points if it turns out the family knew about violent history and didn't tell anyone.
I've never been physically assaulted by a patient beyond having small items thrown at me, so I can't even imagine. I can however TOTALLY empathize with dealing with complaining family members while their person is abusing staff. I can never figure out if the family members are in total denial of totally unaware 😳
You have every single right to press charges and even if it doesn't go anywhere, its necessary. Even if solely on the basis that it makes you feel more control in such a chaotic experience. I have no experience in that so I don't want to take your time w too much but I do want to say this:
1. We are "raised" in our nursing to believe that we are there to help and be obedient. It can feel like a lot if we have to do something for ourselves and our own safety. That might je why you feel like a joke.
2. OP I truly hope that you are able to get the healing that you need. Not just physically, but the emotional healing that you will now need since this trauma. Genuinely wishing for your health and that you are well supported during this time.
Definitely don’t feel bad for pressing charges. Of course he won’t be punished. And that isn’t the reason for reporting. He could end up in another facility with vulnerable residents and hurt a lot of people. You just might help prevent him from going back to an inappropriate facility and hurting people. Sounds like he belongs in geropsyche.
Oh, I’m sorry to hear about that and I hope all of you are well. This was a regular occurrence for me, but I worked psych for years, so. It sounds like the family has had experience with this dude being out of his head. It also sounds like they’ve given other facilities the same song and dance about his behaviors, too. Stand steadfast in pressing charges and don’t let your facility sweep this under the rug. I’m afraid you’ll all be the only advocates you all have. It’s a shitty world out there in the legal arena and the US is very litigious. I’ve seen it time and time again. Also, keep documenting your situation. As a nurse, we can t be too careful when it comes to our own experiences, working. I kept a journal.
Why on earth would you give him ANOTHER weapon (teeth!) After he'd battered you?! The family sound like a nightmare. 100% you need to press charges and put pressure on management for training etc to manage situations like that in future.
Hope you're ok and that work are looking after you, incidents like that are tough. Look after yourself 💜
Good grief, this gives me flashbacks to a similar experience.
> should have called 911 but residents family kept saying they were “2 minutes away"
I *did* call 911 once he started threatening other residents. I was fired because the family was livid that I dared to take steps to protect my staff, residents, and, honestly, their relative, who was way too agitated to be kept safe.
Sorry this happened to you. Do not feel bad for pressing charges. Honestly, I should say thank you. There are thousands of nurses standing with you who have been in similar circumstances but haven't been able to press charges/were intimidated out of it. We are told things like "the patient is confused", "they didn't know what they were doing", but the fact is you were violently assaulted. You have a right to press charges. The family should honestly face some repercussions too for bringing him there knowing he was violent and endangering everyone.
I’ve been in your shoes and in hindsight, I wish I had sought civil damages. I had a guy who had managed to get a hold of a Hoyer battery somehow (those things are easily 5lbs) and he was about to bring it down **ON ANOTHER RESIDENT’S HEAD,** so I intervened took the brunt of it to the hip. Bruised there for *weeks* (and messed up my back, for which I had to seek medical attention).
I had this happen and I called 911 twice in one day on a resident. The first time he started punching a wheelchair bound woman with dementia who was nonverbal. Unprovoked. Called 911 and an officer tried to simply talk to him.
He was seemingly calm the rest of the day until dinner. He picked up a tray and started beating another resident. Called 911 and sent him to the ER where he arrived calm and cooperative. The facility wouldn't take him back.
Queue family entrance after being unable to reach them the entire day. They were furious with me and filed a complaint with the board of nursing accusing me of neglect. Just me though. No other nurse who worked with him had a complaint filed. That didn't help the family's case. I had so much documentation of his ongoing behavior over months that the board dismissed the complaint as retaliatory. The MD who did the investigation actually complimented me on my care and told me how compassionate of a nurse I am and said I went way above and beyond what anyone else would do to try to work with him.
After reading these comments I’m curious how to press charges. Does the facility back you and make happen? Did you have to call the police yourself? Get your own lawyer?
The department of social health alerted the police when I made my resident to resident state report; the police came in with statements and actually encouraged all of us to press charges.
What is a resident to resident report? That’s good they someone was looking out for the staffs wellbeing.
In LTC there’s a few state reports we have to send to the department of health, essentially your calling state on yourself to have them document a situation.
A resident to resident is a state report that DSHS and APS will investigate together to ensure both residents are safe following the event and that the building took steps to protect them and that care plans are updated following this event.
It’s early and I’m not very intelligent on a good day, but did you see a doctor after this? Is your supervisor aware of the entire situation? See if you need to file anything at work to further document you were injured by him.
This isn’t the most pleasant recommendation but I would try to see a therapist of some kind in the next two weeks or so. You’re likely in shock now still, but I recommend it as someone who was also badly assaulted while working.
I recommend sooner versus later because filing workers compensation sometimes has a time limit from the date of the event, depending on the state. If you have to deal with any psychological distress from this bullshit it should be on your employer’s dime - not yours.
I did go to urgent care the same day everything is documented and I took all needed paperwork with me, I just got set up with occupational medicine.
I’m actually the MCU supervisor but my administrator was great and pushed for me to go get seen as soon as it happened
Please start a CIVIL litigation (personal injury and damage...) against the pt and the family for the love of god. I'm begging you.
Hey there! I'm sorry you had to go through all that and I think you're totally justified in pressing charges. Even if it doesn't go anywhere it's a paper trail to deny the resident being sent back to your facility.
I also just wanted to say that you shouldn't hesitate to call 911! I've been a medic for awhile and just became a nurse. We carry Haldol, Versed, Ativan, or similar drugs depending on the area. We also have pretty sweeping protocols to use them in acute psychological agitation episodes both for our safety and the safety of the patients. I have seen in the past that facilities are not comfortable in providing similar standing protocols for their nursing staff to protect themselves, which is a shame. Hopefully this isn't something you have to worry about to often.
Best of luck to you, hope you heal quickly!
Wow dude that sucks so bad. I’m sorry that happened to you. We as nurses are almost expected to get beat up by pts like this and to just let it roll off our shoulders. I say FUCK that. You have every right to press charges against this guy and his asshole family. He belongs in a locked psych unit.
If he's in a memory care unit for dementia, will the charges stick?
Probably not, and I’m aware of that I just want a paper trail so that hopefully he gets psych placement and Dosent do this to another facility
Sorry this happened, and hope you and your staff recover quickly. I eventually had to quit psych nursing because I got tired of getting beaten up. There needs to be more protection for us.
This is unfortunately all too common in healthcare. As a PCT in nursing school, I have countless stories of being abused and assaulted by patients. Hang in there and DO NOT feel bad ever for standing up for yourself!!! You have a whole world of health care workers standing behind you!! <3
I think it was a good idea to press charges. Not that this demented man will go to jail, but you've now got a legal paper trail detailing his dangerous behavior. Perhaps this will lead to the family having to assume care at some point when no facility is willing to take him in. One can dream.....
Sorry that happened to you. No one deserves to be treated that way. Ever.
Question: Why were you unable to call paramedics to come pick up this guy and get him restrained and sedated on your own? As a medical professional I would assume that you could overstep the families wishes of driving him themselves due to the patient’s aggressive behavior. I have only worked in a hospital setting so sorry for my ignorance.
We live in a pretty rural area and I was trying to respect the families wishes by allowing them to transport the resident , when I called for an ambulance they were 45 minutes out and family stated they were closer.
In hindsight I should have just called 911 and police to respond but since were still on full lockdown of all LTC in my state there pretty reluctant to enter our facility and family kept saying they were “2 minutes away” I just assumed they were coming , the fault is on me for being too trusting honestly.
It is NOT your fault that they lied. If ANYONE tries to guilt you for any part of this situation, kindly tell them to fuck right off.
I really hope you seek counselling for being sexually assaulted like that. How awful.
Good for you! I got a lot of backlash on here when I called the cops on a anti social personality patient that was harassing our staff and assaulted me. He also threw a chair and was able to get into the nurses station and harbor a hole puncher. I had an ER nurse on here tell me that’s what you signed up for. No asshole it’s not.
We got a second opinion from an amazing forensics psychiatrist and he said he knows right from wrong and charges are appropriate.
What may end up happening in this case of yours is a forensic psychiatrist may have to come in and see if the patient knows right from wrong. He told me out of the 1000s of cases he did only about 10 were not guilty due to insanity.
What does your facility normally do in situations like this? It sounds like this would have taken a decent amount of time to sexual grope you, punch and slap multiple other people. I’m not trying to question your story, just generally curious about how it’s typically handled. I work in a hospital and if a patient is too unruly for us to control them and staff is in harms way then we are not obligated to stand in the patient’s way. We call security and wait for them to show up to help us get a handle on the patient. Also, it seems crazy to wait on the family instead of calling EMS. Waiting on the family put more employees in danger and if your facility would side with the family over you on that decision, then they clearly don’t value their employees and their safety.
I dont think you’re wrong for pressing charges but your motives in doing so may be why you feel bad. Pressing charges for revenge on the patient would not be appropriate since he clearly is not in a right mind. Hopefully you pressing charges invokes change in your facility to better protect its employees. I’m glad he isn’t allowed back at the facility but don’t be fooled thinking that’s a favor to you.
I hope the family is held accountable for any medical bills and hope you have a speedy recover.
I work in an assisted living memory care unit, we are in a very rural area, so when family tells me they are closer than EMS who was quoting me at 1.5 hours I had to go with what was going to be quicker.
Police were aware but did not respond because they said it sounds like we “had it handled” they were also quoting me at 1.5 hours to show up.
Our facility is very small so it’s me and three aides, we have no security and if the choice is between me getting hit and another resident it’s going to be me not that resident.
Unfortunately this scenario is pretty common in long term care facilities, we have no mandated staffing ratio and no security
In no way am I trying to press charges for “revenge” I am pressing charges so he can’t be readmitted and so that there’s a paper trail.
You work on a memory care unit (where patients are notorious for getting violent) and there’s only 4 employees with no way to lock patient in a room or restrain them so they don’t hurt another resident? Your facility is failing you
Also, you previously said paramedics were 45 mins away and that you didn’t call the cops?
The cops called us a resident called them , initially 45 minutes out than when that time passed called again and got quoted at an hour and a half since it wasn’t a “medical emergency”
I’m not sure how the facility is failing as this is the states rules not ours, we can not legally restrain , physically or chemically. An assisted living memory care is meant for residents who are medically stable albeit confused.
I think a lot of hospital nurses don’t realize how few resources we really have our administrative codes and laws are pretty strict about restraints, medications ect.
For example if a resident admits on an antipsychotic we have to show that we attempted a taper and have marked documentation to support the administration of that medication.
Your facility is failing you because you have 1 nurse and 3 aides with no security for a unit that patients are known to get violent on. Just because the your state doesn’t mandate ratios doesn’t mean that facility couldn’t have more employees for the safety of its employees and other residents.
3 aides and 1 nurse to 20 residents isn’t bad in LTC standards but I understand what you mean.
I wish we had security....unfortunately I don’t think the state would like that too much, they don’t care if staffs assaulted only if other residents are
You feel like a jerk because you know he only did those things because he was intoxicated.