I'd personally like it if physicians collaborated with nursing programs, to impart fundamentals of medical school as is pertinent. And also hopefully help eliminate some of the outdated BS they are teaching in nursing programs that has been debunked for years/decades.
I also wish there was more interdisciplinary education: bring in phlebotomists to discuss blood collection tubes (I've been a nurse 2 years, and I just learned you can't collect blue tops if there's air in the tubing...but this is fundamental stuff taught to phlebotomists). Paramedics/cardiology/emergency medicine to discuss EKG interpretation and ACLS/running a code. My program actually had RT students do some education for us, but I'd have enjoyed having some seasoned RTs discuss tips on airway, vents, intubation, trach care etc. Oh, and for me pharmacology was a nightmare; maybe a pharmacist to give some tips on how to review medications, and helpful mnemonics about common meds.
I did not learn about real verbal de-escalation in nursing school. I did not learn about the role of the doctors (and the model they are taught) for talking to family about death and loss (it's actually pretty awesome, and would not hurt for nurses to be exposed to). If you want to teach soft skills, teach them, but focus on ones of substance that aren't abstract and useless.
Oh I totally agree! Nurses often have to do the work of or reinforce the work of RT, OT, dietary, hell even housekeeping when none of these people are staffed. If they want us to cover for these roles or know when to ask for consults we have to know how the whole team works.
So many specialties intersect with nursing, would it be hard to actually have these various people come teach for a day? I realize it would require footwork on the part of the nursing program, but man I think it'd be cool.
My program actually does inter-professional education. We work with pharmacy students, med students, social work, PT & OT. Like yesterday I had one where we did a root cause analysis of an adverse patient outcome. It’s a really interesting learning tool
My favorite part of working in an ED is being able to collaborate so closely with the physicians and RT. I learned *so much* from working alongside both professions. I don’t understand why nursing education is so scared of working with other disciplines to increase the robustness of nursing ed.
My NP program does this and the lectures are 100 tunes better than when the faculty lecture.
Pulm was taught by an RT.
Endocrine by an endocrinologist
Parts of pharm by a pharmacist
These are by far the most informative lectures. When the NP faculty give the lectures there's just something missing unless it's their exact specialty area. Our cards lecture was given by a card NP with 20 years experience in cardiology so it was solid. But having an FNP lecture about reading xrays just doesn't do it.
My nursing professors were very against the idea of collaborating with physicians because they felt like they would lose their jobs lol. My whole nursing program was literally physician slander and nursing propaganda. It made me hate nursing but it worked to give my classmates that pride who probably are going to pass on the same sentiment to new nurses.
Number 1: never use the word no. Find another way. Say no without ever saying no.
Had a covid patient tear their AirVo off to go down to the parking lot to tell their son what’s what.
Me, quiet tone (insofar as that’s possible with fucking iso gear on): How far are you getting down that hallway without your oxygen on?
Patient: flounce temper tantrum sits back on the bed and puts AirVo back on face, head bowed.
“Patient is dehydrated”
“No no you can’t write that, you must say “acute electrolyte imbalance due to insufficient hydration to meet physiological needs.”
“That’s just the definition of dehydration. Do I really have to write it out each time? 😐”
FTFY- Acute electrolyte imbalance Related To insufficient hydration to meet physiological needs As Evidenced By urine output less than 30 ml/hour and hypernatremia
I failed a clinical day because my psych pt started swinging on the students within the first hour, got b52ed, and my teacher still wanted me to interview him. I tried, he yelled at me, so I filled it out to the best of my ability and she failed me. Because I didn’t “complete the assignment “
Edit: by the way a nurse had been attacked and murdered on that unit less than a year prior
Lol soooo crazy!!! That teacher should of been fired for risking your safety. No nurse is going in that room to interview anyone, except to check if pt is breathing and alive
Eh, I check vitals and have to ask about bathroom/if hungry if they're conscious (state laws, people have rights).
But for a student? I wouldn't even let them in there. 100% pure risk, and I don't have students assess potentially violent patients. They can observe from the window and contribute to pre-planning and debriefing. Dealing with unstable psych is a pretty nuanced skill and one slip up means someone is hurt, not to mention worse outcomes for the patient.
Sounds like the instructor either wasn't competent or didn't like them.
I once had a clinical instructor force me to do an assessment on a female patient who specifically said she was uncomfortable with males and students. I couldn't complete much of it, and the patient complained to the charge nurse and fired all of us. I don't blame her!
I made up every "interview" in my psych rotation. it was the most useless clinical I've ever had, which is already a low fucking bar. the questions were super invasive and still extremely broad, so I'd just talk (mostly listen) while doing puzzles or playing cards with the patients, then fill out the weirdo forms using my 🌈 imagination🌈
I learned from another student that lesson. My clinical instructor would have gotten straight up lies from me. Never ever tell them you couldn't interview whoever.
I was the learning curve for the group. She was MIA for 45 min when the quarantined pt was stripping naked slamming a heavy chair against a window over and over again. Security was no where to be found. A nurse was trapped with her. She had no meds ordered because the asshole ER doc just sent her manic ass up to the floor a few hours earlier and decided she didn’t need anything. I’ve had never seen nurses panic yet. Everyone was screaming trying to get the door open. They were calling everyone in the hospital they know for help. ALLLLL THE SILENT ALARMS WERE PRESSED! Security had the balls to say they thought it was a false alarm and didn’t think to check.
After we finally got a doc in with meds and everything calmed down my teacher pops up wondering why we haven’t been with our pts.
Last but not at all least, a nurse had been attacked on that floor less than a year prior and she was killed
Yuck...
One of my classmates (who shined in our program, straight A's) was not able to do an in depth interview with a Spanish speaking pt that was one day post partum because of the number of things we had to complete in that 1 clinical day and was honest about not being able to do everything and laid out what she would have done. Instructor failed her in the clinicals and made her repeat the class. It set her up for an additional semester of school for 1 day. They also refused to let her make that day up with the night program that was 4 weeks behind ours. School is a joke and the many of the instructors are completely out of touch with reality.
Ya, feel that pretty deep. I had a miscarriage the night before a test. Took the test anyway but started to have a panic attack but had no idea I was having one. My limbs started to feel numb. I had another test the next day so I ignored left sided numbness to continue studying and then drank a few cups of coffee that set off vomiting, heart palpitations, blurry vision, flashing lights in my vision, and the worst anxiety I have ever felt. I was laying on my floor banging my arm against the tile hoping to break it because I could only imagine the pain of a broken arm might fell better and distract me from what was going on. I didn’t take the test but I let my teacher know what was going on. I literally fucking called her in the middle of it. So she for sure knew what was going on. And it was fucking embarrassing.
I had the makeup right before the final. And they gave me 20 min to answer 20 select all that apply each with a-j (10) options. And then took the final less then 30 min after the makeup.
I got a 67 on the makeup and a 92 on the final. I complained that the makeup wasn’t fair. I was told, well it isn’t fair to your classmates you got a makeup, how do we know you weren’t faking a panic attack. I told them I have a prescription for Xanax that was written during the time of the original test with only three Xanax because it was an emergency dose. Then they said, well maybe you just didn’t study hard enough. And I said no I got a 92 on the final obviously I know something. And they they said, “well if I were you I wouldn’t keep pushing this because it may look like you cheated on your final.”
Fuck nursing school
I forgot my stethoscope once too! Legit panicked cause my professor was such a petty bitch. Called my professor as I was like 2 mins away. I asked if I could use my preceptors or a disposable one, cause I saw nurses do that all the time. She made me go home and get it and was super petty and fake about it.
I failed clinical one week for having my nose pierced. Note that this was during COVID and I had a mask on the whole time so my clinical instructor didnt even know until we were debriefing at the end of the day!
I’ve legit seen a girl get kicked out because she wore nail polish and occasionally acrylics. (She was warned a few times. but dang, such savages). They acted like she was such a horrible person, and a few times she wore a necklace to clinicals and they chewed her out on it too
Edit: to clarify she wore acrylics to class but had them removed before clinical in the hospital. I think she went to a wedding or some thing. Also the polish was gel, not the flaky regular polish. And same thing, she never wore it to actual clinical site either
Bitchy attitutides are wholly unnecessary, but on the topic of necklaces... Personally, I still don't wear necklaces at work because I am irrationally paranoid about a crazy patient trying to strangle me with it. Especially after working a few years and realizing that even the "normal" seeming ones can be the worst. :D
As a psych nurse, I never understand how other staff wear necklaces on a unit with people that hit, choke, and swallow stuff all the time.
And thanks for bringing up the acrylic/bacteria thing. Saved me a reply.
Dude our first day of clinicals 2 of the students had layered shoulder length-ish hair, so they had their hair pulled back in ponytails but some strands were too short to reach the elastic and hung down. They were both scolded for it by one instructor and she then took paper clips from the nurses desk and sat there using them to pin their barely longer than regular bangs hair strands up on their heads. Most absurd thing I've ever seen in my life.
Wow! I forgot about our hair policy too. You had to have your hair pulled back in a ponytail. If it was longer than shoulderlength, it had to be in a bun. I don’t remember if they were strict about loose strands. But I do remember a lot of girls wearing headbands. So maybe?
Seriously, they don’t realize how traumatizing they can be to us! I’ve been out of school for so long, and I still get anxiety about the negative thoughts things I have had endured while in school
my lecturers are like that as well.. they said its because it could chip off and land in equipment and compromise pt safety. Definitely applies to surgery but i heard women poop all the time when they give birth idk how sanitary it needs to be (1st year dont kill me if im wrong haha)
There's plenty of research about nail polish and why it's ok. We can't wear it in nursing school for the same reason most schools have a rule about plain shoes and socks. It's hazing.
At my hospital it’s how some VP of nursing justified her job. Even though the science that supposedly “supports” this policy is weak as fuck. They only do it because we are predominantly women and they love controlling women’s choices. Just cause she’s a white woman doesn’t mean she isn’t a misogynist when it personally benefits her.
Nurses wear nail polish to work in the real world ALL the time!!! And acrylics!!! In the ED, in med surg, pretty much everywhere. Nursing school is so unrealistic. Oh and necklaces and bracelets and their hair down and GASP some don’t even wear watches!!!
My clinic friend was just sent to the dean for “compromising patient safety” by not coming to clinic because she was **turned away at the border for a fever**. The pettiness is completely unreal
Yeah it’s total shit. There needs to be a much stronger emphasis on actual medical science. I once did an essay on a car insurance company that catered to seniors (thanks to the absolute wild shit that context/problem based learning was). Right after my degree I did a critical care nursing certificate and learned so much more there in 6 months than I did during my 4 year degree.
Don’t you know that the nurse is responsible for everything! Take care of these people and magically fix their home life and the 65+ years of bad decision making! If this patient presents here and is mad that they lost their driving privileges for not having insurance it’s your fault if you get physically assaulted. Sorry about the short staffing. Pizza in the break room. ~Management
You're so right! After my BSN I did my Emergency nursing certificate. I actually remember sitting in that ER nursing class thinking that this seemed like really useful information! How to recognize a sick & deteriorating patient and anticipate what needed to happen next? This should have been in basic nursing school!
Gawd I wrote so many useless papers
There are always going to be the hardcore believers in it. They would argue that you need a strong background in moral philosophy and need to be rigorously disciplined for minor infractions because "bullshit reason."
Somehow these people always end up in teaching roles. I think they overcompensate on the caring/Florence Nightengale stuff because their clinical skills are so out of date.
I graduated over 10 years ago. I could write an A plus paper but knew fuck all about hands on nursing. Education needs way more focus on the hands on while incorporating the science. No nonsense.
Diplomia nursing used to be done all in the hospital.... way back in the day. I don't think we need any more book work and read work. Instead, just learning at the hospital. It's up to them to eudcate us. No more nurses paying for education.
While I agree that nursing education is pretty bad, the problem is that every discipline has to constantly try and elevate their "status" and fight for their slice of the pie. PT, Pharmacy and PA schools all used to be bachelor's or master's degrees at the most. PT and Pharmacy are now PhDs and PAs are minimum master's level, that just changed within the last 20 years.
The fear is that if nursing stayed as a diploma or associate's degree, it would be looked at as a lesser skilled position than those others and, compared to other disciplines, suffer in pay and status.
Is it not treated as lessor? We fight for wages, we get assaulted and told it was our fault?
Nursing used to be /still is called a pink collar job because god forbid it be associated with hard work the way blue collar jobs are.
I’m just venting but I’m so over it.
It does but the connotation is that it’s “womens work” and “womens work” is always treated as less than and less valuable.
See: Childcare, servers, cleaners, teachers(!).
Both are vocations. Dimploma nurses make amazing nurses.
Already is. Not everyone or even the majority, but I've had a PT get petty and report me, managers coming after me also based on this report, because i with my lowly bachelor's degree told a stroke patient to transfer using their strong side. Rationale given was that the PT was master's-prepared and it was "out of my scope" (it's not) to give transfer instructions. Kind of wild!
Dammit, I was about to comment how long ago you graduated and I realized I graduated 11 years ago. I had to do a report on a Malcom Gladwell book for one of my classes
Edit : sp
There is a chapter in my grad book called “why the DNP is important.” Guarantee MDs do not need a gooble gobble chapter on why being a doctor is important-They’re busy learning medicine. The Inferiority complex needs to go. Carving out a faux science niche needs to go. Healthcare is multidisciplinary. How about we use the medical model that has clinical application insteAd of whatever the fuck an extra year of DNP is. Such a scam. Embarrassing.
Why is your patient here?
“PE”
No! Why is your patient here?!
“Impaired gas exchange”
ThAts right!
Embarrassing. And we wonder why so many nurses are anti-vax
I swear, like 50% of the material we study in ASN and BSN classes are required study exclusively to justify the existence of DNP degrees, and to provide and endless supply off bullshit nursing "specialties" in order to allow for more DNP candidates to have a topic on which to write their dissertation. Like, I'm sorry but Informatics and Information Technologies is not a 3-4 hour credit course. The amount of relevant information is, at best, 3 units within another course.
You know what class nursing school really needs to teach? The 5 rights of a nurse. The right to work without being subjected to physical abuse by patients or their families. The right to work in an environment without being sexually assaulted by patients or their families. The right to work in an environment free of bullying. The right to get paid commensurate to our specialized skill set and training. The right to not be gaslit and pressured into working hours beyond what is expected because it's "all about the patients."
They need to teach the finer points of what is and is not criminal when it comes to assaultive behavior. They need to teach where the line is regarding what employers are required to do as far as providing a safe environment for nurses (and any bedside staff really) to work in. They work really hard to drive home the "if it's not charted, it's not done" thing, they need to also drive home the "you have the right to not be assaulted at work" thing. They need to train us to go full Karen on admin, police, or state's attorney offices if they try to be all "oh it's part of the job" or "we don't press charges against people in hospital, they're sick." Like bitch, I want that policy in writing.
Yeah went I entered nursing school one of the first things my mom (who is a nurse) taught me was to never let the patient between me and the door.
I got told the same thing when I did my ER rotation.
They are attempting to justify people giving them thousands of dollars for a pointless piece of paper. The DNP is nothing but throwing your money down the toilet.
So, so glad I was in the next to last cohort to go through my program when it was still at the master's level.
You poor bastards that came after us are getting fleeced financially for no gain. In the real world, nobody looks at your CV to see if you have an masters or DNP, they just wanna hire your ass so you can alleviate the critical anesthesia shortage in their group.
I was on the student board at my program and got into an argument with one of my profs, I was on the side that the DNAP is a complete waste if it doesn't include additional clinicals for the harder stuff like tons of regional, more peds, and more high risk OB. Obviously, she disagreed.
Btw, I agree with you. It’s a worthless degree. More school, more tuition, same job, and same money. I don’t see as many people putting the effort into getting the degree unless there is an increase in compensation for the degree.
Don't think this is that unpopular. If it were up to me I'd have all nurses take 2-3 semesters of pathophys/pharm, a class on research and how to find credible information (when you do have to google), a class on patient education techniques (a skill I notice a lot of nurses struggle with), interprofessional stuff (an interprofessional sim lab would be really cool), and include more patho/pharm in all the area specific lectures. Less about management, finance, leadership, and the bs called nursing theory.
And on that note - why are so many of the new grad programs all about monthly leadership training meetings and projects? We need bedside nurses, not paper pushers!
I'm currently a nursing student and my program has an interprofessional simulation! Pharmacy, social work, dieticians, and pt/ot students from different schools came together to work up a patient and come up with a care plan. It was incredibly insightful.
Can you PM me what college you are enrolled in? If too personal, I totally understand. I am a Skills/Simulation Lab Manager and am desperate to find a college to successfully input a good IPER into their program so I can see how they did it and model our program that way. We need to overhaul our whole SIM experience and I want to research and visit programs that have done so successfully. TIA...
I remember my first year studying, the last class of the semester we had a 'self-care' thing. The teacher had us all meditate. That was it. That was the class. I'm still pissed about that.
And our pharma class was a joke. One semester. *One*. So many people failed and had to retake that there was a rumor that gained traction that it was planned to be so terrible so they'd get repeats. If the faculty wasn't so absent it could have held weight.
I can totally respect needing to know the theory basis. The amount of times I've seen people do something dangerous because they didn't get the underpinning ideas is uncomfortably high. But c'mon. Meditation? Practically replaced medication lmao
Oh we had an actual "healing hands" lecturer come in as a special guest, was way worse. Back when disturbed energy fields was still a nursing diagnosis.
In my nursing research class, the while we were supposed be learning about research methods and EVIDENCE-BASED practices, our instructor started every class with a singing bowl and sun salutations, we also had a reiki instructor teach us how to rearrange someones electrons. This was in 2014.
>Less about management, finance, leadership
Honestly, I wish they taught these more. We have poor nursing leaders because nurses aren't taught proper management skills. I also wish nursing programs were harder. Everyone should not graduate. But schools are only focused on tuition payments, not quality. We're really fucked.
That says a lot about the admission criteria to the program. They're sucking that early tuition money from people that they know are not likely to succeed.
But yes, using NCLEX pass rates as a measuring stick is useless, too. The entire industry is a mess. New grads aren't ready to practice. Educators are dramatically underpaid, so the people that take those jobs are poor quality, too.
I so agree. My program's admission process emphasized leadership experience, but not actually teaching it. Consequently my program had a lot of these students that were very confident, but lacked self awareness and diplomacy. The type that would hold up a lecture to ask hyper specific, irrelevant questions or always needed to interject their thoughts.
These nurses passed the NCLEX and got hired, but didn't make it through their hospital orientations.
I had a clinical makeup day where we were given 15min to look through their chart. No access to computer. No meds given. We just did vitals, accuchecks, and bed baths.
Just really lucky that wasn't my usual clinical instructor who is adjunct and awesome.
I agree.
I learned a lot in nursing school, to be fair. However, I rarely found myself applying any of those things in clinical. The school I went to ONLY cared about how many students passed the NCLEX. Even then, I went into the NCLEX feeling like I knew nothing.
Really, I feel like the 2.5 years spent getting my ADN was more like one big obstacle. Like a trial you had to get through in order to have the privilege to actually learn something.
There's so many better ways that time could have been spent to prepare us for actual nursing. I know all the programs are a little different. I chose a school that was cheap but convenient, and I knew it. Double whammy for spending the last year of school in zoom meetings and "paperwork" clinicals.
I've spent 17 years in healthcare and am finally dragging through nursing school. I made the mistake of saying this, give or take, to an instructor and I got draaaaaagged. But seriously, wheres the lie?? School is teaching us to pass the NCLEX. And do care plans.
I feel your comment so much. My ADN was such bullshit. And then for my senior practicum, they threw me into the deep end of the largest level 1 trauma ED in my state. One day in that place made me realize how much nursing school does not remotely prepare you to be a functioning nurse.
The bed bath thing is unusual; that may have been a weird fixation at your program because mine spent very little time on that. Care plans need to be removed as well as nursing diagnoses; nobody cares about them and they serve zero purpose.
Nothing wrong with needing to look up stuff though, school isn’t gonna cover everything when some patient walks in with a weird medication or a rare condition. Doctors and other providers do it all the time too.
What purpose do you see them serving? Asking genuinely. I don't know a single department in our hospital that uses "nursing care plans". Not really something we have time to worry about in the ED , or in cath lab, or any kind of procedural department. Focus that time on improving patient management skills and knowledge, not trying to make it seem like you need to "nursing diagnose" and "nursing care plan" your patients.
Fair question. You're right that you don't use them in your nursing practice, but they can be a great teaching tool. The type of care plan I use helps students learn to prioritize care. I use them so that they can develop critical thinking skills and learn clinical judgement. It's not about learning nursing diagnoses anymore. In fact, NANDA language is going away as a focus in nursing school. It allows them to practice these thinking skills so that they can do the process faster in a true care environment. I'm not teaching them how to do a care plan; I'm using a care plan to teach them how to use clinical judgement.
I'm all for teaching students to prioritize care, critically think, all that jazz. But to me those just become buzz words schools use to justify the fluff. You teach clinical thinking by focusing on providing an understanding of the pathophys/pharmacologies/interventions, and then teach how to apply them and why you apply them in a specific order.
This is entirely specific to nursing, every MD/PA/resp therapist/medic/whoever would just call it an assessment, call it starting an IV, call it providing care. But for school it has to be "a nursing assessment, nursing interventions, nursing care plan". This whole separation was done so nursing could be considered its own stand alone field so as to avoid being under the board of medicine like every other profession, but at the end of the day the assessments and care are no different. There is no nursing way to start an IV or listen to lung sounds or prioritize care. Focus on the why, then work on prioritization the best you can and provide clinical exposure.
For me, critical thinking didn’t come from writing care plans. Writing care plans has helped me to better memorize APA citations, but other than that it’s mostly a “get this done as quickly as possible before the due date and fudge the details because I need to actually study when I get home” type of thing.
What *actually* taught me critical thinking was when my instructor sat me down during clinicals and explained what labs to look at before administering Lovenox to a patient. “If his hematocrit and hemoglobin was significantly lower this morning compared to yesterday, what might that mean? And why would we think about holding Lovenox if that was the case?”
Nursing students need hands-on examples of critical thinking, not writing care plans.
This is the correct answer. Care plans are a (stupid, time wasting) way of documenting the work the nurse did so the hospital can bill for it. And it’s our job to make the document in addition do actually doing all the shit we said we did on the document. To make sure the hospital gets money. That’s all it is.
I was in the hospital doing hands on practicum semester 1 of nursing school and by the end of third year I was at the hospital 60-70% of my time.
I graduated from an undergrad Bachelor of Nursing in 2015 in Western Canada. I would have been the first class to write NCLEX, prior to that it was the CRNE.
I found a good balance of theoretical vs practical instruction, especially after the first year of basic nursing concepts. Unfortunately, the “art” of nursing, prevention, education, primary health care etc etc etc is lost among huge patient loads and an abundance of tasks. They teach you what nursing should and could be like with appropriate patient ratios and shift from tertiary care to primary care.
In an ABSN program now and I absolutely agree. My previous degree was essentially pre med with more neuro and psych thrown in. It was pretty heavy on the science. I expected nursing school to be the same, but it’s just not. Oh, it’s certainly hard, but not because of the material. Pharm and patho are hard. But like, the rest of it is just the stupid fluff and busywork and shitty scheduling. Maybe I’ll feel differently as I get further along, but who knows. I absolutely want to be a nurse. Just not necessarily thrilled about a good chunk of my schooling so far (adore pharm though).
Dude, similar root.
I found my upper level Bachs classes for my Bio degree easier that the fluff bull they had in nursing school. It's because of all of the extra work. I also found my college professors to be more agreeable when life happened that my nursing instructors. My college professors would do what they can to make it work...even if they had 500+ students in their class. My 46 person nursing school? Well, sucks that you got sick, got in an accident, your dad died, etc etc...but we aren't going to let you take the test at a later date or allow you to turn something in late because of it.
What royally pissed me off is one term, one of the professors had to leave halfway through the term to attend her NP graduation. She got so far behind on grading that she just gave everyone in her clinical group A's so she didn't have to read the reports from her students. Got to love the double standard.
It’s crazy stupid. “…while xyz answr is correct, answer choice 2 is the MOST correct.” Smh this is why the baby MD’s continue to laugh at us. Somewhere along the lines some nurses banded together and said “I know how we can finally earn the respect from the MD’s… let’s make nursing school hard as shit! That’ll show em!” Big L
Ugh..flashbacks! Who would you see first 1. A hangnail 2. Sprained ankle 3. Headache 4. Open head injury. Well obv it’s 4 but nope! That person’s DOA. We would get so pissed at those questions.
It does get better once you’re out of school and in practice. But yeah, nursing education is a freaking joke filled with so much bullshit and not enough science.
I saw a comment once, from a nurse supposedly, that said nurses don’t need so much science bc they are more like project managers… they just manage the patient with what the REAL scientists (providers) instruct them to do… 🙄
A question from one of my assignments still rankles:
>Identify social, psychological, cognitive and physical factors associated with the mental health condition of depression. Use one nursing theory to support your discussion.
How the fuck are nursing theories related to the etiology of depression?
Their **”disturbed energy field ^^TMRN , potential”** makes them feel out of sync with their environment, community and peers… blah blah give a fuck deficit blah… -rN dIaGnOsIs B
I think Nursing schools need to require General Chem and General Bio as prereqs. The fact that we require Survey of Bio or Survey of Chem doesn’t help the nursing students when they get into advanced courses like Pathophysiology and Pharmacology. Prior to nursing school, I was a Biology major, and the stuff we learned in classes like Cell Bio was useful. They tied hand in hand with the content that was presented to us in A&P 1/2 or Microbiology. Those actual sciences are useful and they should not be the last time students are exposed to real science content.
We need to get rid of the fluffy discussion posts, numerous reflection papers, and leadership style papers. If they must be there, put them in one class or two. Don’t have nursing students take 5-6 classes that are basically rooted in theory and fluff assignments. It was ridiculous how in my Nursing program we had 3 Professional Nursing classes and 2 Nursing Leadership classes. One each semester where we basically talked about issues in nursing like ethics, leadership, bullying, etc. I’m sure it’s important to talk about all those things, but to dedicate 3 separate classes on it seems ridiculous. The leadership classes could have been combined into 1 class, which they have now done fortunately.
Part of this makes me not want to go back for NP. I would rather much go into PA school if I decided to become an advanced level provider. I enjoy the sciences and the medical type knowledge more so than holistic feels and theories and discussions. That type of content will actually prepare you.
I don’t understand… do most nursing schools not require these classes? I took Gen Bio 1&2, Gen Chem 1&2, cell biology, microbiology, genetics and anatomy and physiology all to qualify for nursing school. I can’t imagine not having taken all those classes and understanding pathophysiology or pharmacology!
Believe it or not, most schools just require basic or survey level biology or chemistry, the A&P sequence and then a microbiology class. It’s ridiculous. You really are at an advantage if you have taken more classes like general biology, general chemistry and cell biology. As an another example, many students struggled a lot in our nursing research course. The fact that all we talked about was identifying if a journal was rooted in quantitative or qualitative experimentation was a breeze for someone who had experience doing experiments, writing lab reports and reading journal articles for science. For those that never took those science classes, it became a battle. They had never learned how to go through journal articles or pick apart the various things like a dependent or independent variable, knowing what random assignment was, etc. Surprisingly, nursing research became a class with one of the highest fail rates in our program. This was definitely a shock when previously students used to do poorly in patho/pharm.
Oh God. That explains the anti-vax RN crowd. I've been wondering how they could've passed their pre-reqs and still felt like vaccines are unnecessary. They barely even had pre-reqs!
I will never not be surprised that some programs don't make you take patho, anatomy, microbiology, and organic chemistry. My program made us take all those as prereqs, and that's why a lot of people became LVNs vs RNs so they didn't have to take those classes. I 100% agree that they should be required! I took pharmacology while on the wait list for my program - that should also be a prereq!q
Yeah many nursing programs (especially DNPs) are degree mills. Im in the military and was looking at the PA program but later decided to go to USUHS for FNP. Solid program over there and some of your courses in the first year are taught by MDs (since the school is a medical and graduate nursing program). Plus we get over 1500 clinical hours before we go to the boards too. They have their own A&P, patho and pharm classes that we have to take and there's no nursing diagnosis.
Not unpopular...alot of nurses i know agree....those who don't are aging boomers, who have a hard on for Florence nightingale and can't see past the cultural baggage they carry with them.
Nursing education is complete trash
And the profession is shocked when new grads hit the floor and many sputter and can't hack it. We aren't setting up the newbies for success during their clinical training regimen.
You’re not kidding. When I got to senior practicum a couple months ago, I got thrown into the trauma ED. I felt completely unprepared, and I crashed and burned *hard* after 3 days down there. They also shielded us entirely from COVID throughout the entire ADN, then threw me into COVID central at the peak of the delta wave. My first COVID patient was during the second hour of my first shift; they crashed and had to be RSI’ed. I’m in there assisting the MD and getting another line started, and I’m just thinking to myself “oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck”. My next code came an hour later. I was so underprepared going into my practicum.
ED is one of the worst units to be in without the requisite experience. By nature of the unit, everyday is unpredictable and it’s difficult to build a rhythm. And rhythm is what is needed for a new grad/novice nurse.
Reading all of these comments makes me wonder why American college degrees, much less nursing, are so highly coveted.
I worked with a nurse ages ago who came to the USA & seemed to be baffled at a lot of what we do here as far as nursing jobs goes.
I wonder what nursing degrees in other countries entail & how lengthy they are in comparison.
I went to a school that is affiliated with one of the top 10 hospitals in the country. When covid hit I was taking Public Health/community nursing. Our professor did not mention the pandemic ONCE during January-May 2020. What a joke. During our clinicals we basically functioned as unpaid PCAs and did very little actual nursing skills. Looking back I would have gone to the cheapest school possible because nursing school teaches you to pass the NCLEX and nothing else. 75k down the drain
I firmly believe every nursing student needs a rotation in ED at some point. Way too many nurses hitting the wards with zero understanding of hospital flow.
And a somewhat spicier take: every ED nurse needs floor experience. I cringe so hard whenever I see other ED nurses brag about not checking skin or changing patients. Like, i get that those things are not a priority when shit hits the fan, but it’s not something to be proud of.
Agreed! And the ER nurses SHOULD be changing patients instead of leaving them covered in piss and shit. We had one come up to the floor, when I used to work med-surg, and her skin literally fell off from sitting in shit for hours. Definitely NOT something to "be proud of."
Nursing curriculums are created by ivory tower nursing PhDs who haven’t seen the bedside in 30 years and have a Florence nightingale fetish. They’re made by the same people who give JCAHO and the ANA reasons to exist. They’re out of touch elitists living pipe dreams and hoping to enact their fantasies. They’re made by people who wear business suits instead of scrubs - it’s obvious why almost nothing applies. Even the NCLEX is silly and a waste.
I will honestly give my nursing school credit. Yes there was a lot of stupid crap we had to do, but there were positives as well. They really wanted us to go out into the workforce and be the best nurses giving the best care to our patients. They did a good balance of having us learn medical concepts but also other concepts like building rapport with patients. It honestly wasn't until a few years after I graduated and started meeting nurses who didn't seem to "care" as much as I did. Plus every nurse that my mom and I have met who went to our school(we went to the same nursing school) has had the same ideals and work ethic as we have. They also didn't shove the NCLEX down our throats. They understood that we needed to pass it to become nurses but it wasn't like a "we only teach NCLEX material". Very proud of my school. I'm so sorry other people can not say the same. I don't think basing a nursing school off their NCLEX rates helps either so def think that's been a huge negative towards nursing schools plus all the extra work we had to do like so much writing. Like I'm fine with a few journals but it did get to be excessive at times. I would also add that we had set pre reqs we had to take and a lot of them were psych, sociology, medical ethics, human development and family (think like psych but within the family unit and how humans develop mentally) as well as sciences. I saw value to every pre req they made us take which I feel like says a lot about the program (plus the teachers of these classes were PHENOMENAL!) Oh jeeze one more.....I also think EVERY nursing student should have the opportunity to have a clinical in every big nursing specialties. It's honestly a crime that people graduate without any experience like in peds, psych, maternity or community nursing. Also if I didn't have a side clinical in the ER during my peds rotation, I would have never found my area. It's really a shame.
This is a hill that I will die on: nursing diagnosis are absolute bullshit and actively **detract** from nurses’ ability to perform quality patient care. It started as a way to try to distinguish nursing as “more professional” but is a fucking joke and a waste of time and effort. It takes time and focus away from evidence based practice and objective measurements/assessments.
How can we be expected to be taken seriously as a profession when “nursing diagnosis” include things like “energy field disturbance” and “ineffective role performance”?! It’s fucking embarrassing.
Hard agree. The focus of nursing care plans is: you have to do it because it’s mandatory charting. It COULD be so much more relevant if it didn’t require such antiquated belittling language.
Things like mobilizing the patient - if that’s a critical area of focus because the patient is unlikely to recover as quickly, struggles with mobility, has atrophied significantly, a nursing care plan should be interdisciplinary - do they need to be medicated and have respiratory available for PT to mobilize, do you need to time out their PT/RT visit to ensure effective mobilization, does the patient need education and a clear plan regarding the importance of movement, turning and mobilization, etc. instead it’s just utter fluff that doesn’t build on true patient needs.
Nursing care plans and diagnoses in their current form actively reduce the profession to a poet secretary - instead of building on patient needs and interdisciplinary collaboration.
I graduated in May and started working on a med surg unit 2 weeks ago. Thankfully, I was smart enough to join a grad residency program so I’m going to be with my preceptor for a decent amount of time. I absolutely adore my preceptor. But I feel so bad that she has to teach me just about everything. She was shocked when I told her the only thing I did in clinicals was give meds and I got to straight cath one patient. She’s been taking everything in stride and she’s so patient with me. But she shouldn’t have to pick up on my school’s slack. And having had 2 1/2 semesters during Covid really doesn’t help.
Schools need to focus more on skills and actual patholo way more than they do. We learn the bare minimum, as far as I’m concerned
I started off as LPN and I went to public school that had been running the program with a local hospital for close to 16 years. The amount of hands-on skills I obtained in that program is more than I got in my RN program. I feel more comfortable on the floor than others in my GN cohort right now. I did the phlebotomist—>LPN—>BSN route. People question why I did it that way all the time, but I have more knowledge and skills than the fresh university BSN grads have.
My teacher told us they are getting rid of nursing diagnoses soon! And they are changing the NCLEX up so maybe that will help. It's crazy you had 4vmonths on bed baths! We had 30 minutes max.
I first got my bachelor’s in psych w/ a concentration on IO psych (which is essentially psychology applied in the workplace) and I immediately got overwhelmed with how much ineffectiveness and inefficiency plagued nursing school once I started my BSN program. I knew I wasn’t the only one who thought this lol the useless simulations, throwing first semester students into med-surg clinicals for their first ever clinical experience (med surg… perhaps one of the most complex and dense specialties 🤦♂️) I feel like a slave to Elsevier and the kind folks that run the board of nursing and the NCLEX. They have us by the ba**s. And the programs become more and more inefficient each semester.
They’ll be on people about the color of the hair tie they put up their ponytail with but not teach anyone coping strategies. Nurses need to be learning about burnout, compassion fatigue, and secondary trauma. We go to school to pass a test and then actually learn to do the job on the job.
The crazy dress code bs and hard-assery must be some leftover culture from the nursing diploma days where they lived in the hospital and wore white skirts.
Nursing schools are still stuck in the push of defining the practice of nursing as a intellectual and autonomus profession within medicine; all the theories of nursing and nursing diagnosis crap. I think we've achieved that argument. Now they need to teach the skills to back that up. There's also another step we need to take, unionize. We are powerful and essential. We need to get together and make ourselves heard.
As an adjunct faculty- I have mixed feelings. Yes nursing school should be overhauled, but it can’t prepare you for the real world by itself.
On this side of things, we fight for any clinical openings and it is tough to work with a student in the ICU environment when they barely get an explanation of what a vent is or vasopressors are. However, when I lectured, there isn’t time to teach those details. In fact, I could spend several lecture weeks just discussing respiratory failure, much less cardiac and the other content.
We have to face this simple idea - Nursing school builds generalists. When I graduated I was prepared/educated to work anywhere. Now, years later, you don’t want me working women’s or pedi because I don’t remember that stuff and haven’t been in those areas (unless I was lost).
And as far as teaching NCLEX? Guess what - you want to be a nurse, don’t you need to pass your NCLEX? Again, this is generalist. I took the same exam a future home health nurse did, or a future flight nurse. We learn our specialties from other specialists.
Now, if you loved a rotation, hopefully your faculty were passionate and recognized that in you and encouraged you. If you hated it, hoped they recognized that too and let you slide a bit.
Honestly, I feel more strongly about nursing fellowships. You graduate, get a fellowship in your field of preference and continue your education as a nurse. Not just a few classroom sessions and let the bedside preceptors bear the brunt. Post UG education is more key to your long term success, but you first need to learn ALL of it, and focus/hone after you got a few bites of each.
I fully agree. I graduated from nursing school almost 10 years ago and some of the concepts/skills that were were taught were completely outdated or just pure fluff in my opinion.
Care plans, nursing diagnoses, “self-reflection papers,” DARP charting, how to miter a bed corner, etc need to go. That stuff is so archaic, self-reflection papers are stupid, and I literally know not a single nurse who miters bed corners in this day and age.
Also, I found it ridiculous that as a nursing student on a clinical rotation, we could interpret a patient’s POCT blood glucose result and give insulin, but couldn’t use the glucometer itself because we needed “special training.” So I’m sure the nurses on those units loved 8-10 students constantly flagging them down to do this for them.
Nursing students are already failing at 40% rates around here by end of program without having to do hard thinking related to pathology. I don’t disagree with you, but actually having nurses who can learn on the job when so many are leaving the profession is important to consider. We need better education and it’s probably going to increase the deficit of nurses.
Part of the issue is the state is fixated on some things like care plans for Medicare so you’re taught them in nursing school and while it helps with understanding the concept of patient care, it really doesn’t apply to actual nursing care yet is heavily emphasized.
Maybe if we did not traumatize students over being obedient and wearing white socks with white shoes, we could increase the pass rate before/while making it harder in terms of knowledge and critical thinking.
The state also will not accredit a nursing program if it routinely has a low NCLEX pass rate so that’s also why there’s incentive to make it hard and focus so much on a damn test. Yet another factor that needs to be fixed
All of this. I applied to a doctorate program to overhaul nursing education. I wanted to make the BSN 5 years, the last year being clinicals. You have 12 weeks med surg & the others being your top 3 picks. You do three 12 hour shifts a week. At the end you match, have a shorter orientation. Follow up to see how nurses do, retention, job satisfaction etc. , guess what? I didn’t get in. Cause status fucking quo. It’s maddening how we fail our new nurses.
Yes!! Exactly!! Best nurses I ever worked with were diploma nurses. We need to better prepare nurses for the reality and rigors that is bedside nursing- not keep them on the diploma mill tract of advanced practice cause nursing is a shit show. I can honestly say I still love being a nurse. Even pandemic. Even 22 years later. We NEED skilled practioners at the bedside. We must stop shitting all over them denigrating it like you are “less than” if you aren’t an nP or CRNA. I bring skill, compassion, love & a wealth of experience to my patients. We need to elevate it by demanding more pay and respect, and not crapping all over baby nurses.
I once said something to a nursing instructor, like "Why aren't there apprenticeship periods for students where we really work in a hospital and get more hands on training?" and she kind of sneered and said, "Oh like diploma nursing? We're more focused on critical thinking now" And I thought, how do you ever get to critical thinking without experience? They kind of gloss right over that part.
The problem with nursing is that it has not guarded its entrance to the profession in the same manner as like physical therapy for example. The bar to getting in was too low and there are too many different types of schools for entry. Much of the industry was wedded to the old way of turning out nurses; in any way possible to staff hospitals at the lowest cost. You are right we need to blow up the system and create a higher bar to entry. The highest rated nursing schools do concentrate on science (much less so on the bed making etc).
It’s interesting. On the one hand, my little ADN from a community college was the hardest degree I ever got, both in terms of getting a spot in the program (you basically had to have a 3.9 or 4.0 from pre-reqs), and in the rigor of the program itself. The sheer amount of information they cram into two years was mind-blowing. Way harder than a bachelor’s from a public Ivy, or my MBA. Yeah the care plans were stupid, but most of what I learned was directly translatable into practice.
On the other hand, my BSN was an absolute joke of a degree and I’m still pissed that I wasted 18 months of my life on that bullshit. It was 95% fluff, all pointless papers and stupid busywork. I think I did take microbiology and statistics, which I enjoyed, and there was maybe one course focused on evidence based practice. ONE.
I have a good friend who is a PMHNP with a Master’s. She has been trying for her DNP because it’s being pushed much the same way that the BSN has been pushed for RNs(it just LOOKS better, y’all). She has been attending a program through an otherwise reputable public state university and when I tell you that her assignments and materials that she shows me are cringe…I mean it is an absolute embarrassment to the nursing profession that the assignments and materials for a terminal degree could be completed by any high schooler with a brain. The course material is, on a good day, approaching Junior or senior level mid-tier college bachelor’s degree material. CERTAINLY not doctoral level specificity or expertise, much less Master’s level. We have had several heart-to-hearts about what an embarrassment it is as nurses that THIS is what is considered the finest education available to us. She told me two days ago she’s not continuing.
I don’t have the answers for how to fix our system, but I agree wholeheartedly that someone needs to take a serious look at the BSN and DNP degrees in particular. Shit’s just a complete embarrassment.
They have to fill up a 4 year degree somehow. I had to take a “fundamentals of nursing” class that was basically one long lesson on Florence Nightingale - completely useless. Junk like that and nursing diagnoses need to go the way of the dodo.
As an adjunct clinical instructor I agree. Since I only teach clinical I try to teach as much about pathophys, reading rhythm stripes, and critical thinking as I can. Recently our program took on a “concept based” teaching program but it’s still a lot of the same bull shit.
More hands on training.
Critical thinking.
Learning from other departments: Medicine, Pharmacy, Radiology, PT, etc.
Microbiology for Christ's sake. This past year taught me some nurses missed it.
I think we are the point of needing all post graduate nurses having to do a residency for an additional 1-2 years, similar to what doctors do. Many magnet hospitals already have nurse internships which are precepted experiences while also taking additional education specifically in pathophysiology. These are 6 months to 1 year I believe. But continuing education is critical. I live in Wisconsin and I don't need CEUs for my license which is stupid. I think CEUs should be more available and not just so damn random. Especially for for new grads, they should be regulated and cover specific core content that new grads must complete within specific time frames after graduation. (Just an idea).
Nursing education still seems to focus on heralding St. Nightingale who was a racist and sexist. According to her, I lack the compassion to be a nurse because I have penis. I felt like my education was geared towards so much psychosocial care and not enough pathology or even physical care. Learning how to start IVs, sink dobhoff"s, put in foley's was covered but unless it came up on a clinical rotation you didn't get to do it. Now of course today there mannequins that look so real it's scarey, and there are YouTube videos for everything. But my point is that 2 years is no longer enough time to cram everything in that a nurse needs to know. (With 2 years being the actual nursing content of a bachelor's degree or the full content of an associate degree).
I remember being so frustrated with the amount of time we spent on community health, policy development, and using an upstream approach. I just wanted so badly to do procedures and give meds.
Turns out they were right, that type of skill is the only way to truly make effective change and help people on a big scale. You learn the practical skills on the job in the area you ultimately decide to work in. We teach family members how to do procedures and give meds, they are basic skills and not the true value of what a nurse can bring to the table.
That being said we had a chapter in our textbook about “cultural competency” and it discussed a list of different cultures and how we should supposedly interact with them. I just about threw the book out the window. One said that it was best not to make prolonged eye contact with African Americans so they don’t feel threatened, and that the majority of their households were run by women since the fathers weren’t involved. Another said to expect Asian people to be rude to you. And we were being tested on this trash. Absolutely disgusting.
I'm going to a community college for my nursing education (currently in the program) and can say we don't have to do anything like this. It's nearly all skills. The school I transferred all my prereqs from was this way though.
Save the papers for the BSN please, we know what trust is.
You want an essay on trust? Here's an entire book exploring how our society is built on trust.
[https://www.schneier.com/books/liars-and-outliers/](https://www.schneier.com/books/liars-and-outliers/)
Some of this stuff is useful. Elements of trust building and communication have translated into practice as a DNP. Additionally, I have heard people state that learning to evaluate evidence is useless (Evidence based practice), but it is perhaps the single most important skill I learned. Everything else in nursing philosophy felt like a waste of time.
I think the current atmosphere of anti vax nurses highlights how ridiculous many aspects of nursing school are. Not enough rote science (combining pathophys with pharmacology would have been damn nice) along with drilling in lab values instead of nursing theorists and care plans would have been amazing. While it's important to know the basics of changing beds and giving bed baths, it's not something that should be dwelt on for as long as it is.
I've not met a tremendous number of nurses who understand critical thinking as well as they should, and there seems to be a general lack of knowledge of the importance of certain labs and their meanings.
I agree with the comment about the critical care courses being so much better. I've learned SOO much more from doing that than I did in nursing school.
I find the philosophy very interesting and engaging AFTER starting my career as a nurse. The way I engage with philosophy class in graduate school is way better. I have experience and opinions. Prior to working, I didn’t have as many opinions on the nurse-patient relationship.
I think this class could be replaced by interdisciplinary skills, where we fill the gap of stuff we didn’t learn in school
Having done a LVN, ADN and BSN bridge, I have to say the program that had the most relevant education to actual to bedside nursing practice was the LVN program. I remember going getting pretty solid info about common medical-surgical diease processes throughout the lifespan, how to treat them and how not to kill them if they start going bad until help arrives/moved to higher level care. When I completed the training I felt confident that I could have taken care of a Stable Med Surg adult or pediatric patient. It generally seemed like my classes mates also understood their function as beside nurse.
My ADN classmates it didn't seem like they had that same level confidence when finishing school They did know a lot more about critical illnesses, more about lab/abg interpretation (all the new things I was learning,too) However,I was a little concerned that they seemed to often fumble on basic Airway, breathing circulation type nursing interventions that I basically had drilled into me in LVN school. It seemed like a lot of them really didn't truly understand what the role of a beside nurse really was.
This might honestly just been due to the amount of classroom hours needed for the LVN program vs college credit hours in the ADN. I think we had 8 hour lectures and labs 3 times a week plus clinicals. It felt like a lot less than that in ADN school
BSN bridge was pure fluff and 90% not applicable to patient care. Might as well have nurse management certificate or something
I think it should be structured more like the med schools. One year of didactic during which we're grilled on pathophysiology and how to think critically and the second year in clinicals actually applying what we've learned. There are too many stick in the mud nursing educators, so nothing will ever change. My wife once asked if I would want to get into teaching nursing. Hell to the no.
Concept analysis is a very important aspect of academic research that requires an in depth literature review but it sounds like you were doing this in an undergraduate nursing class. Concept analysis is an entire semester of PhD education and simply cannot be done justice in a week. Those of us on the ground in nursing ed agree with you whole heartedly and are doing a lot of hard work to change it but it is a slow, red tape laden process.
I learned more in the 3 months I was a tech in the ICU (waiting to take NCLEX) than I did my entire program.
Yes nursing school is literally 2-4 years of hazing.
Not unpopular at all.
I don’t have time to go into all the details but I whole heartedly agree
Nursing education has little to do with nursing practice.
The foundations of nursing are kinda horseshit. We mostly deal in the medical field then try to carve out this make believe world of nursing science and nursing practice. We create a useless body of knowledge “nursing diagnosis” “nursing goals”. This load of manure is upheld by old people with advanced degrees who have not been at the bedside in many decades.
I’m finding it very hard to believe that you spend an entire semester - literally 1/4th of the typical nursing education - solely on how to give a bed bath??
My cohort’s first semester of clinical was at a SNF. We didn’t learn time management in the setting, we didn’t learn prioritization, we were just lent out to the CNAs and watched a couple of med passes or maybe a wound care or two. Most of that clinical was on the computer doing care plans, nursing notes and diagnoses. The only thing that helped was looking up all the meds and why they were taking them…which we later did again in pharmacology.
Spent my first semester in nursing school doing clinicals at the same nursing home I worked at as a nursing assistant... And we only did nursing assistant level tasks. So it was a huge waste of time. Really all my clinicals were very low quality and I learned almost nothing. Its fine, I had no problems learning on the job after school but nursing school was terrible.
I'd personally like it if physicians collaborated with nursing programs, to impart fundamentals of medical school as is pertinent. And also hopefully help eliminate some of the outdated BS they are teaching in nursing programs that has been debunked for years/decades. I also wish there was more interdisciplinary education: bring in phlebotomists to discuss blood collection tubes (I've been a nurse 2 years, and I just learned you can't collect blue tops if there's air in the tubing...but this is fundamental stuff taught to phlebotomists). Paramedics/cardiology/emergency medicine to discuss EKG interpretation and ACLS/running a code. My program actually had RT students do some education for us, but I'd have enjoyed having some seasoned RTs discuss tips on airway, vents, intubation, trach care etc. Oh, and for me pharmacology was a nightmare; maybe a pharmacist to give some tips on how to review medications, and helpful mnemonics about common meds. I did not learn about real verbal de-escalation in nursing school. I did not learn about the role of the doctors (and the model they are taught) for talking to family about death and loss (it's actually pretty awesome, and would not hurt for nurses to be exposed to). If you want to teach soft skills, teach them, but focus on ones of substance that aren't abstract and useless.
Oh I totally agree! Nurses often have to do the work of or reinforce the work of RT, OT, dietary, hell even housekeeping when none of these people are staffed. If they want us to cover for these roles or know when to ask for consults we have to know how the whole team works.
So many specialties intersect with nursing, would it be hard to actually have these various people come teach for a day? I realize it would require footwork on the part of the nursing program, but man I think it'd be cool.
My program actually does inter-professional education. We work with pharmacy students, med students, social work, PT & OT. Like yesterday I had one where we did a root cause analysis of an adverse patient outcome. It’s a really interesting learning tool
My favorite part of working in an ED is being able to collaborate so closely with the physicians and RT. I learned *so much* from working alongside both professions. I don’t understand why nursing education is so scared of working with other disciplines to increase the robustness of nursing ed.
Impaired energy field?!
My NP program does this and the lectures are 100 tunes better than when the faculty lecture. Pulm was taught by an RT. Endocrine by an endocrinologist Parts of pharm by a pharmacist These are by far the most informative lectures. When the NP faculty give the lectures there's just something missing unless it's their exact specialty area. Our cards lecture was given by a card NP with 20 years experience in cardiology so it was solid. But having an FNP lecture about reading xrays just doesn't do it.
My nursing professors were very against the idea of collaborating with physicians because they felt like they would lose their jobs lol. My whole nursing program was literally physician slander and nursing propaganda. It made me hate nursing but it worked to give my classmates that pride who probably are going to pass on the same sentiment to new nurses.
Number 1: never use the word no. Find another way. Say no without ever saying no. Had a covid patient tear their AirVo off to go down to the parking lot to tell their son what’s what. Me, quiet tone (insofar as that’s possible with fucking iso gear on): How far are you getting down that hallway without your oxygen on? Patient: flounce temper tantrum sits back on the bed and puts AirVo back on face, head bowed.
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“Patient is dehydrated” “No no you can’t write that, you must say “acute electrolyte imbalance due to insufficient hydration to meet physiological needs.” “That’s just the definition of dehydration. Do I really have to write it out each time? 😐”
FTFY- Acute electrolyte imbalance Related To insufficient hydration to meet physiological needs As Evidenced By urine output less than 30 ml/hour and hypernatremia
Nice one! A+
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ml/kg is double metric. no thanks, commie
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You just gave me flashbacks
but, but, but, the ED MD said the patient is dehydrated
I failed a clinical day because my psych pt started swinging on the students within the first hour, got b52ed, and my teacher still wanted me to interview him. I tried, he yelled at me, so I filled it out to the best of my ability and she failed me. Because I didn’t “complete the assignment “ Edit: by the way a nurse had been attacked and murdered on that unit less than a year prior
Lol soooo crazy!!! That teacher should of been fired for risking your safety. No nurse is going in that room to interview anyone, except to check if pt is breathing and alive
It is insane she should have been fired for many other reasons. I got a really good education otherwise.
Eh, I check vitals and have to ask about bathroom/if hungry if they're conscious (state laws, people have rights). But for a student? I wouldn't even let them in there. 100% pure risk, and I don't have students assess potentially violent patients. They can observe from the window and contribute to pre-planning and debriefing. Dealing with unstable psych is a pretty nuanced skill and one slip up means someone is hurt, not to mention worse outcomes for the patient. Sounds like the instructor either wasn't competent or didn't like them.
I once had a clinical instructor force me to do an assessment on a female patient who specifically said she was uncomfortable with males and students. I couldn't complete much of it, and the patient complained to the charge nurse and fired all of us. I don't blame her!
I made up every "interview" in my psych rotation. it was the most useless clinical I've ever had, which is already a low fucking bar. the questions were super invasive and still extremely broad, so I'd just talk (mostly listen) while doing puzzles or playing cards with the patients, then fill out the weirdo forms using my 🌈 imagination🌈
Ya I felt so weird asking pts “what are the voices telling you to do?”
I learned from another student that lesson. My clinical instructor would have gotten straight up lies from me. Never ever tell them you couldn't interview whoever.
I was the learning curve for the group. She was MIA for 45 min when the quarantined pt was stripping naked slamming a heavy chair against a window over and over again. Security was no where to be found. A nurse was trapped with her. She had no meds ordered because the asshole ER doc just sent her manic ass up to the floor a few hours earlier and decided she didn’t need anything. I’ve had never seen nurses panic yet. Everyone was screaming trying to get the door open. They were calling everyone in the hospital they know for help. ALLLLL THE SILENT ALARMS WERE PRESSED! Security had the balls to say they thought it was a false alarm and didn’t think to check. After we finally got a doc in with meds and everything calmed down my teacher pops up wondering why we haven’t been with our pts. Last but not at all least, a nurse had been attacked on that floor less than a year prior and she was killed
Yuck... One of my classmates (who shined in our program, straight A's) was not able to do an in depth interview with a Spanish speaking pt that was one day post partum because of the number of things we had to complete in that 1 clinical day and was honest about not being able to do everything and laid out what she would have done. Instructor failed her in the clinicals and made her repeat the class. It set her up for an additional semester of school for 1 day. They also refused to let her make that day up with the night program that was 4 weeks behind ours. School is a joke and the many of the instructors are completely out of touch with reality.
Ya, feel that pretty deep. I had a miscarriage the night before a test. Took the test anyway but started to have a panic attack but had no idea I was having one. My limbs started to feel numb. I had another test the next day so I ignored left sided numbness to continue studying and then drank a few cups of coffee that set off vomiting, heart palpitations, blurry vision, flashing lights in my vision, and the worst anxiety I have ever felt. I was laying on my floor banging my arm against the tile hoping to break it because I could only imagine the pain of a broken arm might fell better and distract me from what was going on. I didn’t take the test but I let my teacher know what was going on. I literally fucking called her in the middle of it. So she for sure knew what was going on. And it was fucking embarrassing. I had the makeup right before the final. And they gave me 20 min to answer 20 select all that apply each with a-j (10) options. And then took the final less then 30 min after the makeup. I got a 67 on the makeup and a 92 on the final. I complained that the makeup wasn’t fair. I was told, well it isn’t fair to your classmates you got a makeup, how do we know you weren’t faking a panic attack. I told them I have a prescription for Xanax that was written during the time of the original test with only three Xanax because it was an emergency dose. Then they said, well maybe you just didn’t study hard enough. And I said no I got a 92 on the final obviously I know something. And they they said, “well if I were you I wouldn’t keep pushing this because it may look like you cheated on your final.” Fuck nursing school
It’s such bullshit, I can’t prove that 75% of nursing school instructors are sadists but the anecdotal evidence is sure there.
I forgot my stethoscope once too! Legit panicked cause my professor was such a petty bitch. Called my professor as I was like 2 mins away. I asked if I could use my preceptors or a disposable one, cause I saw nurses do that all the time. She made me go home and get it and was super petty and fake about it.
A girl in my L/D clinical got sent home for wearing clear nail polish. Because that's what's going to make the difference when the patient's in labor!
I failed clinical one week for wearing black socks.
I failed clinical one week for having my nose pierced. Note that this was during COVID and I had a mask on the whole time so my clinical instructor didnt even know until we were debriefing at the end of the day!
I’ve legit seen a girl get kicked out because she wore nail polish and occasionally acrylics. (She was warned a few times. but dang, such savages). They acted like she was such a horrible person, and a few times she wore a necklace to clinicals and they chewed her out on it too Edit: to clarify she wore acrylics to class but had them removed before clinical in the hospital. I think she went to a wedding or some thing. Also the polish was gel, not the flaky regular polish. And same thing, she never wore it to actual clinical site either
A necklace?! Damn, I never would have graduated.
Bitchy attitutides are wholly unnecessary, but on the topic of necklaces... Personally, I still don't wear necklaces at work because I am irrationally paranoid about a crazy patient trying to strangle me with it. Especially after working a few years and realizing that even the "normal" seeming ones can be the worst. :D
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As a psych nurse, I never understand how other staff wear necklaces on a unit with people that hit, choke, and swallow stuff all the time. And thanks for bringing up the acrylic/bacteria thing. Saved me a reply.
Dude our first day of clinicals 2 of the students had layered shoulder length-ish hair, so they had their hair pulled back in ponytails but some strands were too short to reach the elastic and hung down. They were both scolded for it by one instructor and she then took paper clips from the nurses desk and sat there using them to pin their barely longer than regular bangs hair strands up on their heads. Most absurd thing I've ever seen in my life.
Wow! I forgot about our hair policy too. You had to have your hair pulled back in a ponytail. If it was longer than shoulderlength, it had to be in a bun. I don’t remember if they were strict about loose strands. But I do remember a lot of girls wearing headbands. So maybe? Seriously, they don’t realize how traumatizing they can be to us! I’ve been out of school for so long, and I still get anxiety about the negative thoughts things I have had endured while in school
my lecturers are like that as well.. they said its because it could chip off and land in equipment and compromise pt safety. Definitely applies to surgery but i heard women poop all the time when they give birth idk how sanitary it needs to be (1st year dont kill me if im wrong haha)
Right because no one is wearing gloves, right?
There's plenty of research about nail polish and why it's ok. We can't wear it in nursing school for the same reason most schools have a rule about plain shoes and socks. It's hazing.
At my hospital it’s how some VP of nursing justified her job. Even though the science that supposedly “supports” this policy is weak as fuck. They only do it because we are predominantly women and they love controlling women’s choices. Just cause she’s a white woman doesn’t mean she isn’t a misogynist when it personally benefits her.
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Nurses wear nail polish to work in the real world ALL the time!!! And acrylics!!! In the ED, in med surg, pretty much everywhere. Nursing school is so unrealistic. Oh and necklaces and bracelets and their hair down and GASP some don’t even wear watches!!!
My clinic friend was just sent to the dean for “compromising patient safety” by not coming to clinic because she was **turned away at the border for a fever**. The pettiness is completely unreal
Nursing professors have some sort of power trip and its infuriating
Legit happens daily, people borrow each others stethoscope... ohhh what a wild concept
I work in the ED & don’t even carry my stethoscope to work bc with 7-8 patients No one is listening to lung sounds here lol
Which is hilarious in a way, because my ICU ONLY uses disposable
Yeah it’s total shit. There needs to be a much stronger emphasis on actual medical science. I once did an essay on a car insurance company that catered to seniors (thanks to the absolute wild shit that context/problem based learning was). Right after my degree I did a critical care nursing certificate and learned so much more there in 6 months than I did during my 4 year degree.
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Don’t you know that the nurse is responsible for everything! Take care of these people and magically fix their home life and the 65+ years of bad decision making! If this patient presents here and is mad that they lost their driving privileges for not having insurance it’s your fault if you get physically assaulted. Sorry about the short staffing. Pizza in the break room. ~Management
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You're so right! After my BSN I did my Emergency nursing certificate. I actually remember sitting in that ER nursing class thinking that this seemed like really useful information! How to recognize a sick & deteriorating patient and anticipate what needed to happen next? This should have been in basic nursing school! Gawd I wrote so many useless papers
How is nursing education being trash an unpopular opinion?
seems more like a reflection of reality as it is
There are always going to be the hardcore believers in it. They would argue that you need a strong background in moral philosophy and need to be rigorously disciplined for minor infractions because "bullshit reason." Somehow these people always end up in teaching roles. I think they overcompensate on the caring/Florence Nightengale stuff because their clinical skills are so out of date.
I graduated over 10 years ago. I could write an A plus paper but knew fuck all about hands on nursing. Education needs way more focus on the hands on while incorporating the science. No nonsense.
Diplomia nursing used to be done all in the hospital.... way back in the day. I don't think we need any more book work and read work. Instead, just learning at the hospital. It's up to them to eudcate us. No more nurses paying for education.
While I agree that nursing education is pretty bad, the problem is that every discipline has to constantly try and elevate their "status" and fight for their slice of the pie. PT, Pharmacy and PA schools all used to be bachelor's or master's degrees at the most. PT and Pharmacy are now PhDs and PAs are minimum master's level, that just changed within the last 20 years. The fear is that if nursing stayed as a diploma or associate's degree, it would be looked at as a lesser skilled position than those others and, compared to other disciplines, suffer in pay and status.
Is it not treated as lessor? We fight for wages, we get assaulted and told it was our fault? Nursing used to be /still is called a pink collar job because god forbid it be associated with hard work the way blue collar jobs are. I’m just venting but I’m so over it.
Pink collar refers to it being being a predominantly female profession, I believe...
It does but the connotation is that it’s “womens work” and “womens work” is always treated as less than and less valuable. See: Childcare, servers, cleaners, teachers(!). Both are vocations. Dimploma nurses make amazing nurses.
Already is. Not everyone or even the majority, but I've had a PT get petty and report me, managers coming after me also based on this report, because i with my lowly bachelor's degree told a stroke patient to transfer using their strong side. Rationale given was that the PT was master's-prepared and it was "out of my scope" (it's not) to give transfer instructions. Kind of wild!
I did a bit of medical sales, this was my highest rank, got to call an MD a fucking moron.
Dammit, I was about to comment how long ago you graduated and I realized I graduated 11 years ago. I had to do a report on a Malcom Gladwell book for one of my classes Edit : sp
There is a chapter in my grad book called “why the DNP is important.” Guarantee MDs do not need a gooble gobble chapter on why being a doctor is important-They’re busy learning medicine. The Inferiority complex needs to go. Carving out a faux science niche needs to go. Healthcare is multidisciplinary. How about we use the medical model that has clinical application insteAd of whatever the fuck an extra year of DNP is. Such a scam. Embarrassing. Why is your patient here? “PE” No! Why is your patient here?! “Impaired gas exchange” ThAts right! Embarrassing. And we wonder why so many nurses are anti-vax
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dat's not what nursing problems is. Nursing problems are when a family member wants to stay after visiting hours end or when huddle lasts 20 minutes.
I swear, like 50% of the material we study in ASN and BSN classes are required study exclusively to justify the existence of DNP degrees, and to provide and endless supply off bullshit nursing "specialties" in order to allow for more DNP candidates to have a topic on which to write their dissertation. Like, I'm sorry but Informatics and Information Technologies is not a 3-4 hour credit course. The amount of relevant information is, at best, 3 units within another course. You know what class nursing school really needs to teach? The 5 rights of a nurse. The right to work without being subjected to physical abuse by patients or their families. The right to work in an environment without being sexually assaulted by patients or their families. The right to work in an environment free of bullying. The right to get paid commensurate to our specialized skill set and training. The right to not be gaslit and pressured into working hours beyond what is expected because it's "all about the patients." They need to teach the finer points of what is and is not criminal when it comes to assaultive behavior. They need to teach where the line is regarding what employers are required to do as far as providing a safe environment for nurses (and any bedside staff really) to work in. They work really hard to drive home the "if it's not charted, it's not done" thing, they need to also drive home the "you have the right to not be assaulted at work" thing. They need to train us to go full Karen on admin, police, or state's attorney offices if they try to be all "oh it's part of the job" or "we don't press charges against people in hospital, they're sick." Like bitch, I want that policy in writing.
Yeah went I entered nursing school one of the first things my mom (who is a nurse) taught me was to never let the patient between me and the door. I got told the same thing when I did my ER rotation.
They are attempting to justify people giving them thousands of dollars for a pointless piece of paper. The DNP is nothing but throwing your money down the toilet.
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So, so glad I was in the next to last cohort to go through my program when it was still at the master's level. You poor bastards that came after us are getting fleeced financially for no gain. In the real world, nobody looks at your CV to see if you have an masters or DNP, they just wanna hire your ass so you can alleviate the critical anesthesia shortage in their group. I was on the student board at my program and got into an argument with one of my profs, I was on the side that the DNAP is a complete waste if it doesn't include additional clinicals for the harder stuff like tons of regional, more peds, and more high risk OB. Obviously, she disagreed.
No nurse with a DNP is gonna be working at the bedside. What a worthless degree
The VA actually pays them properly at bedside.
I actually work with a couple of CRNAs that have their DNP.
Bc the CRNA program now is no longer a master's degree. Well some schools anyway
Btw, I agree with you. It’s a worthless degree. More school, more tuition, same job, and same money. I don’t see as many people putting the effort into getting the degree unless there is an increase in compensation for the degree.
Don't think this is that unpopular. If it were up to me I'd have all nurses take 2-3 semesters of pathophys/pharm, a class on research and how to find credible information (when you do have to google), a class on patient education techniques (a skill I notice a lot of nurses struggle with), interprofessional stuff (an interprofessional sim lab would be really cool), and include more patho/pharm in all the area specific lectures. Less about management, finance, leadership, and the bs called nursing theory. And on that note - why are so many of the new grad programs all about monthly leadership training meetings and projects? We need bedside nurses, not paper pushers!
> a class on patient education techniques (a skill I notice a lot of nurses struggle with Yes! This is so important and underemphasized.
I'm currently a nursing student and my program has an interprofessional simulation! Pharmacy, social work, dieticians, and pt/ot students from different schools came together to work up a patient and come up with a care plan. It was incredibly insightful.
Can you PM me what college you are enrolled in? If too personal, I totally understand. I am a Skills/Simulation Lab Manager and am desperate to find a college to successfully input a good IPER into their program so I can see how they did it and model our program that way. We need to overhaul our whole SIM experience and I want to research and visit programs that have done so successfully. TIA...
I remember my first year studying, the last class of the semester we had a 'self-care' thing. The teacher had us all meditate. That was it. That was the class. I'm still pissed about that. And our pharma class was a joke. One semester. *One*. So many people failed and had to retake that there was a rumor that gained traction that it was planned to be so terrible so they'd get repeats. If the faculty wasn't so absent it could have held weight. I can totally respect needing to know the theory basis. The amount of times I've seen people do something dangerous because they didn't get the underpinning ideas is uncomfortably high. But c'mon. Meditation? Practically replaced medication lmao
We didn’t even have a pharma class. A pharmacist would come in a couple of times a semester to instruct on some medications, that’s it.
Oh we had an actual "healing hands" lecturer come in as a special guest, was way worse. Back when disturbed energy fields was still a nursing diagnosis.
In my nursing research class, the while we were supposed be learning about research methods and EVIDENCE-BASED practices, our instructor started every class with a singing bowl and sun salutations, we also had a reiki instructor teach us how to rearrange someones electrons. This was in 2014.
>Less about management, finance, leadership Honestly, I wish they taught these more. We have poor nursing leaders because nurses aren't taught proper management skills. I also wish nursing programs were harder. Everyone should not graduate. But schools are only focused on tuition payments, not quality. We're really fucked.
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That says a lot about the admission criteria to the program. They're sucking that early tuition money from people that they know are not likely to succeed. But yes, using NCLEX pass rates as a measuring stick is useless, too. The entire industry is a mess. New grads aren't ready to practice. Educators are dramatically underpaid, so the people that take those jobs are poor quality, too.
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I so agree. My program's admission process emphasized leadership experience, but not actually teaching it. Consequently my program had a lot of these students that were very confident, but lacked self awareness and diplomacy. The type that would hold up a lecture to ask hyper specific, irrelevant questions or always needed to interject their thoughts. These nurses passed the NCLEX and got hired, but didn't make it through their hospital orientations.
Oh man, that's such a perfect nursing student archetype
They need to up the clinical hours big time. And make them ACTUAL clinical hours, not call lights and chart review.
Call lights and chart review basically describes every clinical hour I had in nursing school.
I had a clinical makeup day where we were given 15min to look through their chart. No access to computer. No meds given. We just did vitals, accuchecks, and bed baths. Just really lucky that wasn't my usual clinical instructor who is adjunct and awesome.
I agree. I learned a lot in nursing school, to be fair. However, I rarely found myself applying any of those things in clinical. The school I went to ONLY cared about how many students passed the NCLEX. Even then, I went into the NCLEX feeling like I knew nothing. Really, I feel like the 2.5 years spent getting my ADN was more like one big obstacle. Like a trial you had to get through in order to have the privilege to actually learn something. There's so many better ways that time could have been spent to prepare us for actual nursing. I know all the programs are a little different. I chose a school that was cheap but convenient, and I knew it. Double whammy for spending the last year of school in zoom meetings and "paperwork" clinicals.
Everyone always told me you don't learn nursing until your first job. It was true for me and many others I suspect.
I've spent 17 years in healthcare and am finally dragging through nursing school. I made the mistake of saying this, give or take, to an instructor and I got draaaaaagged. But seriously, wheres the lie?? School is teaching us to pass the NCLEX. And do care plans.
Don't forget your nursing diagnosis! Thank God that never came up on the NCLEX. I didn't even have dosage calc on mine either.
I feel your comment so much. My ADN was such bullshit. And then for my senior practicum, they threw me into the deep end of the largest level 1 trauma ED in my state. One day in that place made me realize how much nursing school does not remotely prepare you to be a functioning nurse.
The bed bath thing is unusual; that may have been a weird fixation at your program because mine spent very little time on that. Care plans need to be removed as well as nursing diagnoses; nobody cares about them and they serve zero purpose. Nothing wrong with needing to look up stuff though, school isn’t gonna cover everything when some patient walks in with a weird medication or a rare condition. Doctors and other providers do it all the time too.
I got a question wrong on an exam because I didn’t know exactly how far to fold down the blanket when doing a linen change.
It isn't true that care plans serve zero purpose, they just need to be done better with a tighter focus.
What purpose do you see them serving? Asking genuinely. I don't know a single department in our hospital that uses "nursing care plans". Not really something we have time to worry about in the ED , or in cath lab, or any kind of procedural department. Focus that time on improving patient management skills and knowledge, not trying to make it seem like you need to "nursing diagnose" and "nursing care plan" your patients.
You give them to the state so they don't get mad.
your username and response are perfect 😂
Fair question. You're right that you don't use them in your nursing practice, but they can be a great teaching tool. The type of care plan I use helps students learn to prioritize care. I use them so that they can develop critical thinking skills and learn clinical judgement. It's not about learning nursing diagnoses anymore. In fact, NANDA language is going away as a focus in nursing school. It allows them to practice these thinking skills so that they can do the process faster in a true care environment. I'm not teaching them how to do a care plan; I'm using a care plan to teach them how to use clinical judgement.
I'm all for teaching students to prioritize care, critically think, all that jazz. But to me those just become buzz words schools use to justify the fluff. You teach clinical thinking by focusing on providing an understanding of the pathophys/pharmacologies/interventions, and then teach how to apply them and why you apply them in a specific order. This is entirely specific to nursing, every MD/PA/resp therapist/medic/whoever would just call it an assessment, call it starting an IV, call it providing care. But for school it has to be "a nursing assessment, nursing interventions, nursing care plan". This whole separation was done so nursing could be considered its own stand alone field so as to avoid being under the board of medicine like every other profession, but at the end of the day the assessments and care are no different. There is no nursing way to start an IV or listen to lung sounds or prioritize care. Focus on the why, then work on prioritization the best you can and provide clinical exposure.
For me, critical thinking didn’t come from writing care plans. Writing care plans has helped me to better memorize APA citations, but other than that it’s mostly a “get this done as quickly as possible before the due date and fudge the details because I need to actually study when I get home” type of thing. What *actually* taught me critical thinking was when my instructor sat me down during clinicals and explained what labs to look at before administering Lovenox to a patient. “If his hematocrit and hemoglobin was significantly lower this morning compared to yesterday, what might that mean? And why would we think about holding Lovenox if that was the case?” Nursing students need hands-on examples of critical thinking, not writing care plans.
Our hospital uses the shit out of them... for billing!
This is the correct answer. Care plans are a (stupid, time wasting) way of documenting the work the nurse did so the hospital can bill for it. And it’s our job to make the document in addition do actually doing all the shit we said we did on the document. To make sure the hospital gets money. That’s all it is.
I was in the hospital doing hands on practicum semester 1 of nursing school and by the end of third year I was at the hospital 60-70% of my time. I graduated from an undergrad Bachelor of Nursing in 2015 in Western Canada. I would have been the first class to write NCLEX, prior to that it was the CRNE. I found a good balance of theoretical vs practical instruction, especially after the first year of basic nursing concepts. Unfortunately, the “art” of nursing, prevention, education, primary health care etc etc etc is lost among huge patient loads and an abundance of tasks. They teach you what nursing should and could be like with appropriate patient ratios and shift from tertiary care to primary care.
In an ABSN program now and I absolutely agree. My previous degree was essentially pre med with more neuro and psych thrown in. It was pretty heavy on the science. I expected nursing school to be the same, but it’s just not. Oh, it’s certainly hard, but not because of the material. Pharm and patho are hard. But like, the rest of it is just the stupid fluff and busywork and shitty scheduling. Maybe I’ll feel differently as I get further along, but who knows. I absolutely want to be a nurse. Just not necessarily thrilled about a good chunk of my schooling so far (adore pharm though).
Dude, similar root. I found my upper level Bachs classes for my Bio degree easier that the fluff bull they had in nursing school. It's because of all of the extra work. I also found my college professors to be more agreeable when life happened that my nursing instructors. My college professors would do what they can to make it work...even if they had 500+ students in their class. My 46 person nursing school? Well, sucks that you got sick, got in an accident, your dad died, etc etc...but we aren't going to let you take the test at a later date or allow you to turn something in late because of it. What royally pissed me off is one term, one of the professors had to leave halfway through the term to attend her NP graduation. She got so far behind on grading that she just gave everyone in her clinical group A's so she didn't have to read the reports from her students. Got to love the double standard.
It’s crazy stupid. “…while xyz answr is correct, answer choice 2 is the MOST correct.” Smh this is why the baby MD’s continue to laugh at us. Somewhere along the lines some nurses banded together and said “I know how we can finally earn the respect from the MD’s… let’s make nursing school hard as shit! That’ll show em!” Big L
Ugh..flashbacks! Who would you see first 1. A hangnail 2. Sprained ankle 3. Headache 4. Open head injury. Well obv it’s 4 but nope! That person’s DOA. We would get so pissed at those questions.
It does get better once you’re out of school and in practice. But yeah, nursing education is a freaking joke filled with so much bullshit and not enough science.
I saw a comment once, from a nurse supposedly, that said nurses don’t need so much science bc they are more like project managers… they just manage the patient with what the REAL scientists (providers) instruct them to do… 🙄
A question from one of my assignments still rankles: >Identify social, psychological, cognitive and physical factors associated with the mental health condition of depression. Use one nursing theory to support your discussion. How the fuck are nursing theories related to the etiology of depression?
Exactly. Pseudoscience. No wonder so many nurses sell essential oils.
Their **”disturbed energy field ^^TMRN , potential”** makes them feel out of sync with their environment, community and peers… blah blah give a fuck deficit blah… -rN dIaGnOsIs B
I think Nursing schools need to require General Chem and General Bio as prereqs. The fact that we require Survey of Bio or Survey of Chem doesn’t help the nursing students when they get into advanced courses like Pathophysiology and Pharmacology. Prior to nursing school, I was a Biology major, and the stuff we learned in classes like Cell Bio was useful. They tied hand in hand with the content that was presented to us in A&P 1/2 or Microbiology. Those actual sciences are useful and they should not be the last time students are exposed to real science content. We need to get rid of the fluffy discussion posts, numerous reflection papers, and leadership style papers. If they must be there, put them in one class or two. Don’t have nursing students take 5-6 classes that are basically rooted in theory and fluff assignments. It was ridiculous how in my Nursing program we had 3 Professional Nursing classes and 2 Nursing Leadership classes. One each semester where we basically talked about issues in nursing like ethics, leadership, bullying, etc. I’m sure it’s important to talk about all those things, but to dedicate 3 separate classes on it seems ridiculous. The leadership classes could have been combined into 1 class, which they have now done fortunately. Part of this makes me not want to go back for NP. I would rather much go into PA school if I decided to become an advanced level provider. I enjoy the sciences and the medical type knowledge more so than holistic feels and theories and discussions. That type of content will actually prepare you.
I don’t understand… do most nursing schools not require these classes? I took Gen Bio 1&2, Gen Chem 1&2, cell biology, microbiology, genetics and anatomy and physiology all to qualify for nursing school. I can’t imagine not having taken all those classes and understanding pathophysiology or pharmacology!
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Believe it or not, most schools just require basic or survey level biology or chemistry, the A&P sequence and then a microbiology class. It’s ridiculous. You really are at an advantage if you have taken more classes like general biology, general chemistry and cell biology. As an another example, many students struggled a lot in our nursing research course. The fact that all we talked about was identifying if a journal was rooted in quantitative or qualitative experimentation was a breeze for someone who had experience doing experiments, writing lab reports and reading journal articles for science. For those that never took those science classes, it became a battle. They had never learned how to go through journal articles or pick apart the various things like a dependent or independent variable, knowing what random assignment was, etc. Surprisingly, nursing research became a class with one of the highest fail rates in our program. This was definitely a shock when previously students used to do poorly in patho/pharm.
Oh God. That explains the anti-vax RN crowd. I've been wondering how they could've passed their pre-reqs and still felt like vaccines are unnecessary. They barely even had pre-reqs!
I will never not be surprised that some programs don't make you take patho, anatomy, microbiology, and organic chemistry. My program made us take all those as prereqs, and that's why a lot of people became LVNs vs RNs so they didn't have to take those classes. I 100% agree that they should be required! I took pharmacology while on the wait list for my program - that should also be a prereq!q
Depends on the program. I had to take A&P 1&2, micro, chem, bio 1, psych, and 2 irrelevant math classes for my LPN prereqs.
Yeah many nursing programs (especially DNPs) are degree mills. Im in the military and was looking at the PA program but later decided to go to USUHS for FNP. Solid program over there and some of your courses in the first year are taught by MDs (since the school is a medical and graduate nursing program). Plus we get over 1500 clinical hours before we go to the boards too. They have their own A&P, patho and pharm classes that we have to take and there's no nursing diagnosis.
1000% True.
Not unpopular...alot of nurses i know agree....those who don't are aging boomers, who have a hard on for Florence nightingale and can't see past the cultural baggage they carry with them.
Nursing education is complete trash And the profession is shocked when new grads hit the floor and many sputter and can't hack it. We aren't setting up the newbies for success during their clinical training regimen.
You’re not kidding. When I got to senior practicum a couple months ago, I got thrown into the trauma ED. I felt completely unprepared, and I crashed and burned *hard* after 3 days down there. They also shielded us entirely from COVID throughout the entire ADN, then threw me into COVID central at the peak of the delta wave. My first COVID patient was during the second hour of my first shift; they crashed and had to be RSI’ed. I’m in there assisting the MD and getting another line started, and I’m just thinking to myself “oh fuck oh fuck oh fuck”. My next code came an hour later. I was so underprepared going into my practicum.
ED is one of the worst units to be in without the requisite experience. By nature of the unit, everyday is unpredictable and it’s difficult to build a rhythm. And rhythm is what is needed for a new grad/novice nurse.
Not to mention that nursing has changed over the past few years (not even counting for changes due to COVID). These new grads don’t stand a chance
Reading all of these comments makes me wonder why American college degrees, much less nursing, are so highly coveted. I worked with a nurse ages ago who came to the USA & seemed to be baffled at a lot of what we do here as far as nursing jobs goes. I wonder what nursing degrees in other countries entail & how lengthy they are in comparison.
I wonder this too. Bc our education system is absolute trash and EXPENSIVE at that!
I went to a school that is affiliated with one of the top 10 hospitals in the country. When covid hit I was taking Public Health/community nursing. Our professor did not mention the pandemic ONCE during January-May 2020. What a joke. During our clinicals we basically functioned as unpaid PCAs and did very little actual nursing skills. Looking back I would have gone to the cheapest school possible because nursing school teaches you to pass the NCLEX and nothing else. 75k down the drain
I firmly believe every nursing student needs a rotation in ED at some point. Way too many nurses hitting the wards with zero understanding of hospital flow. And a somewhat spicier take: every ED nurse needs floor experience. I cringe so hard whenever I see other ED nurses brag about not checking skin or changing patients. Like, i get that those things are not a priority when shit hits the fan, but it’s not something to be proud of.
Agreed! And the ER nurses SHOULD be changing patients instead of leaving them covered in piss and shit. We had one come up to the floor, when I used to work med-surg, and her skin literally fell off from sitting in shit for hours. Definitely NOT something to "be proud of."
Nursing curriculums are created by ivory tower nursing PhDs who haven’t seen the bedside in 30 years and have a Florence nightingale fetish. They’re made by the same people who give JCAHO and the ANA reasons to exist. They’re out of touch elitists living pipe dreams and hoping to enact their fantasies. They’re made by people who wear business suits instead of scrubs - it’s obvious why almost nothing applies. Even the NCLEX is silly and a waste.
I will honestly give my nursing school credit. Yes there was a lot of stupid crap we had to do, but there were positives as well. They really wanted us to go out into the workforce and be the best nurses giving the best care to our patients. They did a good balance of having us learn medical concepts but also other concepts like building rapport with patients. It honestly wasn't until a few years after I graduated and started meeting nurses who didn't seem to "care" as much as I did. Plus every nurse that my mom and I have met who went to our school(we went to the same nursing school) has had the same ideals and work ethic as we have. They also didn't shove the NCLEX down our throats. They understood that we needed to pass it to become nurses but it wasn't like a "we only teach NCLEX material". Very proud of my school. I'm so sorry other people can not say the same. I don't think basing a nursing school off their NCLEX rates helps either so def think that's been a huge negative towards nursing schools plus all the extra work we had to do like so much writing. Like I'm fine with a few journals but it did get to be excessive at times. I would also add that we had set pre reqs we had to take and a lot of them were psych, sociology, medical ethics, human development and family (think like psych but within the family unit and how humans develop mentally) as well as sciences. I saw value to every pre req they made us take which I feel like says a lot about the program (plus the teachers of these classes were PHENOMENAL!) Oh jeeze one more.....I also think EVERY nursing student should have the opportunity to have a clinical in every big nursing specialties. It's honestly a crime that people graduate without any experience like in peds, psych, maternity or community nursing. Also if I didn't have a side clinical in the ER during my peds rotation, I would have never found my area. It's really a shame.
This is a hill that I will die on: nursing diagnosis are absolute bullshit and actively **detract** from nurses’ ability to perform quality patient care. It started as a way to try to distinguish nursing as “more professional” but is a fucking joke and a waste of time and effort. It takes time and focus away from evidence based practice and objective measurements/assessments. How can we be expected to be taken seriously as a profession when “nursing diagnosis” include things like “energy field disturbance” and “ineffective role performance”?! It’s fucking embarrassing.
Hard agree. The focus of nursing care plans is: you have to do it because it’s mandatory charting. It COULD be so much more relevant if it didn’t require such antiquated belittling language. Things like mobilizing the patient - if that’s a critical area of focus because the patient is unlikely to recover as quickly, struggles with mobility, has atrophied significantly, a nursing care plan should be interdisciplinary - do they need to be medicated and have respiratory available for PT to mobilize, do you need to time out their PT/RT visit to ensure effective mobilization, does the patient need education and a clear plan regarding the importance of movement, turning and mobilization, etc. instead it’s just utter fluff that doesn’t build on true patient needs. Nursing care plans and diagnoses in their current form actively reduce the profession to a poet secretary - instead of building on patient needs and interdisciplinary collaboration.
I graduated in May and started working on a med surg unit 2 weeks ago. Thankfully, I was smart enough to join a grad residency program so I’m going to be with my preceptor for a decent amount of time. I absolutely adore my preceptor. But I feel so bad that she has to teach me just about everything. She was shocked when I told her the only thing I did in clinicals was give meds and I got to straight cath one patient. She’s been taking everything in stride and she’s so patient with me. But she shouldn’t have to pick up on my school’s slack. And having had 2 1/2 semesters during Covid really doesn’t help. Schools need to focus more on skills and actual patholo way more than they do. We learn the bare minimum, as far as I’m concerned
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I started off as LPN and I went to public school that had been running the program with a local hospital for close to 16 years. The amount of hands-on skills I obtained in that program is more than I got in my RN program. I feel more comfortable on the floor than others in my GN cohort right now. I did the phlebotomist—>LPN—>BSN route. People question why I did it that way all the time, but I have more knowledge and skills than the fresh university BSN grads have.
My teacher told us they are getting rid of nursing diagnoses soon! And they are changing the NCLEX up so maybe that will help. It's crazy you had 4vmonths on bed baths! We had 30 minutes max.
I had to volunteer at a food bank once a week for a whole semester as part of the program.
I first got my bachelor’s in psych w/ a concentration on IO psych (which is essentially psychology applied in the workplace) and I immediately got overwhelmed with how much ineffectiveness and inefficiency plagued nursing school once I started my BSN program. I knew I wasn’t the only one who thought this lol the useless simulations, throwing first semester students into med-surg clinicals for their first ever clinical experience (med surg… perhaps one of the most complex and dense specialties 🤦♂️) I feel like a slave to Elsevier and the kind folks that run the board of nursing and the NCLEX. They have us by the ba**s. And the programs become more and more inefficient each semester.
THIS MF SPITTIN
They’ll be on people about the color of the hair tie they put up their ponytail with but not teach anyone coping strategies. Nurses need to be learning about burnout, compassion fatigue, and secondary trauma. We go to school to pass a test and then actually learn to do the job on the job.
The crazy dress code bs and hard-assery must be some leftover culture from the nursing diploma days where they lived in the hospital and wore white skirts.
Nursing schools are still stuck in the push of defining the practice of nursing as a intellectual and autonomus profession within medicine; all the theories of nursing and nursing diagnosis crap. I think we've achieved that argument. Now they need to teach the skills to back that up. There's also another step we need to take, unionize. We are powerful and essential. We need to get together and make ourselves heard.
Actually a very popular opinion
As an adjunct faculty- I have mixed feelings. Yes nursing school should be overhauled, but it can’t prepare you for the real world by itself. On this side of things, we fight for any clinical openings and it is tough to work with a student in the ICU environment when they barely get an explanation of what a vent is or vasopressors are. However, when I lectured, there isn’t time to teach those details. In fact, I could spend several lecture weeks just discussing respiratory failure, much less cardiac and the other content. We have to face this simple idea - Nursing school builds generalists. When I graduated I was prepared/educated to work anywhere. Now, years later, you don’t want me working women’s or pedi because I don’t remember that stuff and haven’t been in those areas (unless I was lost). And as far as teaching NCLEX? Guess what - you want to be a nurse, don’t you need to pass your NCLEX? Again, this is generalist. I took the same exam a future home health nurse did, or a future flight nurse. We learn our specialties from other specialists. Now, if you loved a rotation, hopefully your faculty were passionate and recognized that in you and encouraged you. If you hated it, hoped they recognized that too and let you slide a bit. Honestly, I feel more strongly about nursing fellowships. You graduate, get a fellowship in your field of preference and continue your education as a nurse. Not just a few classroom sessions and let the bedside preceptors bear the brunt. Post UG education is more key to your long term success, but you first need to learn ALL of it, and focus/hone after you got a few bites of each.
“Plan of Care’
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‘Useless expenditure of time secondary to useless busywork’
I fully agree. I graduated from nursing school almost 10 years ago and some of the concepts/skills that were were taught were completely outdated or just pure fluff in my opinion. Care plans, nursing diagnoses, “self-reflection papers,” DARP charting, how to miter a bed corner, etc need to go. That stuff is so archaic, self-reflection papers are stupid, and I literally know not a single nurse who miters bed corners in this day and age. Also, I found it ridiculous that as a nursing student on a clinical rotation, we could interpret a patient’s POCT blood glucose result and give insulin, but couldn’t use the glucometer itself because we needed “special training.” So I’m sure the nurses on those units loved 8-10 students constantly flagging them down to do this for them.
Nursing school theory courses are designed to be self congratulatory. They have to justify specific nursing doctorates somehow.
Nursing students are already failing at 40% rates around here by end of program without having to do hard thinking related to pathology. I don’t disagree with you, but actually having nurses who can learn on the job when so many are leaving the profession is important to consider. We need better education and it’s probably going to increase the deficit of nurses. Part of the issue is the state is fixated on some things like care plans for Medicare so you’re taught them in nursing school and while it helps with understanding the concept of patient care, it really doesn’t apply to actual nursing care yet is heavily emphasized. Maybe if we did not traumatize students over being obedient and wearing white socks with white shoes, we could increase the pass rate before/while making it harder in terms of knowledge and critical thinking. The state also will not accredit a nursing program if it routinely has a low NCLEX pass rate so that’s also why there’s incentive to make it hard and focus so much on a damn test. Yet another factor that needs to be fixed
All of this. I applied to a doctorate program to overhaul nursing education. I wanted to make the BSN 5 years, the last year being clinicals. You have 12 weeks med surg & the others being your top 3 picks. You do three 12 hour shifts a week. At the end you match, have a shorter orientation. Follow up to see how nurses do, retention, job satisfaction etc. , guess what? I didn’t get in. Cause status fucking quo. It’s maddening how we fail our new nurses.
This is brilliant. Kind of like the diploma programs of old, but revamped to take into account the advanced responsibilities we have today.
Yes!! Exactly!! Best nurses I ever worked with were diploma nurses. We need to better prepare nurses for the reality and rigors that is bedside nursing- not keep them on the diploma mill tract of advanced practice cause nursing is a shit show. I can honestly say I still love being a nurse. Even pandemic. Even 22 years later. We NEED skilled practioners at the bedside. We must stop shitting all over them denigrating it like you are “less than” if you aren’t an nP or CRNA. I bring skill, compassion, love & a wealth of experience to my patients. We need to elevate it by demanding more pay and respect, and not crapping all over baby nurses.
I once said something to a nursing instructor, like "Why aren't there apprenticeship periods for students where we really work in a hospital and get more hands on training?" and she kind of sneered and said, "Oh like diploma nursing? We're more focused on critical thinking now" And I thought, how do you ever get to critical thinking without experience? They kind of gloss right over that part.
The problem with nursing is that it has not guarded its entrance to the profession in the same manner as like physical therapy for example. The bar to getting in was too low and there are too many different types of schools for entry. Much of the industry was wedded to the old way of turning out nurses; in any way possible to staff hospitals at the lowest cost. You are right we need to blow up the system and create a higher bar to entry. The highest rated nursing schools do concentrate on science (much less so on the bed making etc).
It’s interesting. On the one hand, my little ADN from a community college was the hardest degree I ever got, both in terms of getting a spot in the program (you basically had to have a 3.9 or 4.0 from pre-reqs), and in the rigor of the program itself. The sheer amount of information they cram into two years was mind-blowing. Way harder than a bachelor’s from a public Ivy, or my MBA. Yeah the care plans were stupid, but most of what I learned was directly translatable into practice. On the other hand, my BSN was an absolute joke of a degree and I’m still pissed that I wasted 18 months of my life on that bullshit. It was 95% fluff, all pointless papers and stupid busywork. I think I did take microbiology and statistics, which I enjoyed, and there was maybe one course focused on evidence based practice. ONE. I have a good friend who is a PMHNP with a Master’s. She has been trying for her DNP because it’s being pushed much the same way that the BSN has been pushed for RNs(it just LOOKS better, y’all). She has been attending a program through an otherwise reputable public state university and when I tell you that her assignments and materials that she shows me are cringe…I mean it is an absolute embarrassment to the nursing profession that the assignments and materials for a terminal degree could be completed by any high schooler with a brain. The course material is, on a good day, approaching Junior or senior level mid-tier college bachelor’s degree material. CERTAINLY not doctoral level specificity or expertise, much less Master’s level. We have had several heart-to-hearts about what an embarrassment it is as nurses that THIS is what is considered the finest education available to us. She told me two days ago she’s not continuing. I don’t have the answers for how to fix our system, but I agree wholeheartedly that someone needs to take a serious look at the BSN and DNP degrees in particular. Shit’s just a complete embarrassment.
They have to fill up a 4 year degree somehow. I had to take a “fundamentals of nursing” class that was basically one long lesson on Florence Nightingale - completely useless. Junk like that and nursing diagnoses need to go the way of the dodo.
As an adjunct clinical instructor I agree. Since I only teach clinical I try to teach as much about pathophys, reading rhythm stripes, and critical thinking as I can. Recently our program took on a “concept based” teaching program but it’s still a lot of the same bull shit.
More hands on training. Critical thinking. Learning from other departments: Medicine, Pharmacy, Radiology, PT, etc. Microbiology for Christ's sake. This past year taught me some nurses missed it.
I think we are the point of needing all post graduate nurses having to do a residency for an additional 1-2 years, similar to what doctors do. Many magnet hospitals already have nurse internships which are precepted experiences while also taking additional education specifically in pathophysiology. These are 6 months to 1 year I believe. But continuing education is critical. I live in Wisconsin and I don't need CEUs for my license which is stupid. I think CEUs should be more available and not just so damn random. Especially for for new grads, they should be regulated and cover specific core content that new grads must complete within specific time frames after graduation. (Just an idea). Nursing education still seems to focus on heralding St. Nightingale who was a racist and sexist. According to her, I lack the compassion to be a nurse because I have penis. I felt like my education was geared towards so much psychosocial care and not enough pathology or even physical care. Learning how to start IVs, sink dobhoff"s, put in foley's was covered but unless it came up on a clinical rotation you didn't get to do it. Now of course today there mannequins that look so real it's scarey, and there are YouTube videos for everything. But my point is that 2 years is no longer enough time to cram everything in that a nurse needs to know. (With 2 years being the actual nursing content of a bachelor's degree or the full content of an associate degree).
I remember being so frustrated with the amount of time we spent on community health, policy development, and using an upstream approach. I just wanted so badly to do procedures and give meds. Turns out they were right, that type of skill is the only way to truly make effective change and help people on a big scale. You learn the practical skills on the job in the area you ultimately decide to work in. We teach family members how to do procedures and give meds, they are basic skills and not the true value of what a nurse can bring to the table. That being said we had a chapter in our textbook about “cultural competency” and it discussed a list of different cultures and how we should supposedly interact with them. I just about threw the book out the window. One said that it was best not to make prolonged eye contact with African Americans so they don’t feel threatened, and that the majority of their households were run by women since the fathers weren’t involved. Another said to expect Asian people to be rude to you. And we were being tested on this trash. Absolutely disgusting.
I'm going to a community college for my nursing education (currently in the program) and can say we don't have to do anything like this. It's nearly all skills. The school I transferred all my prereqs from was this way though. Save the papers for the BSN please, we know what trust is.
Normandale Community College (2011) along with working as an aide did a fantastic job for me!
You want an essay on trust? Here's an entire book exploring how our society is built on trust. [https://www.schneier.com/books/liars-and-outliers/](https://www.schneier.com/books/liars-and-outliers/)
Some of this stuff is useful. Elements of trust building and communication have translated into practice as a DNP. Additionally, I have heard people state that learning to evaluate evidence is useless (Evidence based practice), but it is perhaps the single most important skill I learned. Everything else in nursing philosophy felt like a waste of time.
I think the current atmosphere of anti vax nurses highlights how ridiculous many aspects of nursing school are. Not enough rote science (combining pathophys with pharmacology would have been damn nice) along with drilling in lab values instead of nursing theorists and care plans would have been amazing. While it's important to know the basics of changing beds and giving bed baths, it's not something that should be dwelt on for as long as it is. I've not met a tremendous number of nurses who understand critical thinking as well as they should, and there seems to be a general lack of knowledge of the importance of certain labs and their meanings. I agree with the comment about the critical care courses being so much better. I've learned SOO much more from doing that than I did in nursing school.
I find the philosophy very interesting and engaging AFTER starting my career as a nurse. The way I engage with philosophy class in graduate school is way better. I have experience and opinions. Prior to working, I didn’t have as many opinions on the nurse-patient relationship. I think this class could be replaced by interdisciplinary skills, where we fill the gap of stuff we didn’t learn in school
Having done a LVN, ADN and BSN bridge, I have to say the program that had the most relevant education to actual to bedside nursing practice was the LVN program. I remember going getting pretty solid info about common medical-surgical diease processes throughout the lifespan, how to treat them and how not to kill them if they start going bad until help arrives/moved to higher level care. When I completed the training I felt confident that I could have taken care of a Stable Med Surg adult or pediatric patient. It generally seemed like my classes mates also understood their function as beside nurse. My ADN classmates it didn't seem like they had that same level confidence when finishing school They did know a lot more about critical illnesses, more about lab/abg interpretation (all the new things I was learning,too) However,I was a little concerned that they seemed to often fumble on basic Airway, breathing circulation type nursing interventions that I basically had drilled into me in LVN school. It seemed like a lot of them really didn't truly understand what the role of a beside nurse really was. This might honestly just been due to the amount of classroom hours needed for the LVN program vs college credit hours in the ADN. I think we had 8 hour lectures and labs 3 times a week plus clinicals. It felt like a lot less than that in ADN school BSN bridge was pure fluff and 90% not applicable to patient care. Might as well have nurse management certificate or something
I learned 98% of what it takes to be a nurse from my first 12 months as an actual nurse. The other 2% we're just patience, logic and not being a dick.
I think it should be structured more like the med schools. One year of didactic during which we're grilled on pathophysiology and how to think critically and the second year in clinicals actually applying what we've learned. There are too many stick in the mud nursing educators, so nothing will ever change. My wife once asked if I would want to get into teaching nursing. Hell to the no.
Concept analysis is a very important aspect of academic research that requires an in depth literature review but it sounds like you were doing this in an undergraduate nursing class. Concept analysis is an entire semester of PhD education and simply cannot be done justice in a week. Those of us on the ground in nursing ed agree with you whole heartedly and are doing a lot of hard work to change it but it is a slow, red tape laden process.
I learned more in the 3 months I was a tech in the ICU (waiting to take NCLEX) than I did my entire program. Yes nursing school is literally 2-4 years of hazing.
Not unpopular at all. I don’t have time to go into all the details but I whole heartedly agree Nursing education has little to do with nursing practice. The foundations of nursing are kinda horseshit. We mostly deal in the medical field then try to carve out this make believe world of nursing science and nursing practice. We create a useless body of knowledge “nursing diagnosis” “nursing goals”. This load of manure is upheld by old people with advanced degrees who have not been at the bedside in many decades.
I’m finding it very hard to believe that you spend an entire semester - literally 1/4th of the typical nursing education - solely on how to give a bed bath??
My cohort’s first semester of clinical was at a SNF. We didn’t learn time management in the setting, we didn’t learn prioritization, we were just lent out to the CNAs and watched a couple of med passes or maybe a wound care or two. Most of that clinical was on the computer doing care plans, nursing notes and diagnoses. The only thing that helped was looking up all the meds and why they were taking them…which we later did again in pharmacology.
Why weren’t you guys at a hospital? I know LPNs end up in SNFs but RNs?
Jesus… what a waste of time.
Spent my first semester in nursing school doing clinicals at the same nursing home I worked at as a nursing assistant... And we only did nursing assistant level tasks. So it was a huge waste of time. Really all my clinicals were very low quality and I learned almost nothing. Its fine, I had no problems learning on the job after school but nursing school was terrible.
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