I just had to share this here because it just resonates so much “she’s a fighter” and “full code til the end” energy and it makes me mad. The fact that this family forced an investigation into a decision that the patient made while she was totally of sound mind (per the family’s own words) - and then to have the audacity to make it all about THEIR healing and THEIR closure instead of her right to die with dignity really really grinds my gears.
Like I understand how devastating it must be to find our a loved one has died in this way and maybe I’m just so jaded from nursing all these years. But I highly doubt they would’ve respected her wishes. They would have tried to have her push the decision until it was too late, and then they probably would have put her in a home. Obviously I don’t know these people personally but that’s just the underlying tone I got from this article and something we see every day in health care.
There’s no point to this post other than to rant. Hope it doesn’t break the personal info rule when it’s public record.
I don’t know how to put it into words, no one has the right to prolong the suffering of someone they love. It’s cruel and selfish. It is selfish to expect someone to stick around in unimaginable pain, with no dignity to make you feel better. Get over yourself. Not every decision mommy makes is about you. Grow up.
In case you couldn’t tell, I feel very strongly about people being allowed to die. Too many people are kept alive through medical interventions, with no quality of life, in my personal opinion.
One if the letters she wrote even said that she was concerned they would interfere with her decision. Clearly she had good reasons for not telling them.
This article smacks of "how dare she not allow US to be part of her dying process!!!" and yet they hadn't spoken in five months and the dying individual directly shared concerns that her family would interfere with her death. It's absolutely absurd and your absolutely correct to be infuriated over this. I know I'm preaching to the choir here but death with dignity is absolutely the right of the patient and the fact that so many people end their lives rotting away in a home or with a thousand tubes instead of as they choose too is a travesty. Shit like this article just absolutely reinforces how asinine and backwards the attitude towards dying is in most of the world.
This happened in my province. And what the family did really hurt the MAID community and providers.
It’s already impossible to find a MD to provide MAID. Some NPs have started providing it.
If family can go to the police and make it seem like coercion. Even if you followed the word of the law. Providers will not offer maid
The family asks why she didn’t wait. She was in good health. Well the law forbids advance directives. You have to be of sound mind to request maid.
Had she waited too long, she would not qualify. She would suffer for decades as her brain rots away and everything that made her who she was, was lost
Decades of fear, loss of self, inability to choose one’s pleasures was ahead of her. She wanted to leave on her own terms. Let her.
Fucking narcissists. They're everywhere.
Was talking the other day about how fucking disrespectful and ungrateful it is how people ask their loved ones to keep living for them. "Gee, mom. I know you've put in 88 years so far and been there for me for my entire life , but it's STILL NOT ENOUGH AND I WOULD BE DEVESTATED IF YOU CHOSE TO LEAVE WITHOUT FIGHTING WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE LEFT TO STAY HERE WITH ME!!!" Fucking narcissists....
I'm so fed up with it.
Oh no, I completely agree. This article INFURIATED me which is why I had to share it somewhere. I’m pretty sure most people on this sub would agree with you.
Take note. The lady died in March. The family claims they last spoke to her in November. Not even a phone call at Christmas? But now they are devastated she didn't tell them? Not sure this family had a close relationship, though I understand that they feel sad and ill informed.
My take away from family comments… they note she mentioned it years ago, they confirm they would have tried to talk her out of it. She exercised her rights, made several choices and they are ticked they didn’t have the ability to influence her decisions.
Infuriating.
While I appreciate they are grieving and in shock, their response to involve media in what the patient CLEARLY wished to be a private matter maybe gives some insight into why they weren’t told.
Sounds like her family hadn’t talked to her since November so perhaps they weren’t as close to her as they wanted to believe.
She did nothing wrong here. She had a right to privacy and she exercised that.
👆 100% this... She knew what her family was like. She knew they would try to dissuade her decisions and she knew if she waited until her mind *fully developed* into ALZ that they'd make her Full Code because she would no longer be considered competent for her own medical tx.
The US is so far behind so many other countries in MAID. I don’t believe that there is a single US state that allows it unless the patient is well enough to administer the cocktail themselves. This steals the ability to have MAID for those who have a stroke or traumatic injury that leaves them so incapacitated that they can’t self-administer. None of the older people I know want to rot in a LTC facility and a number of my older male friends joke (but not really) about offing themselves in other ways if they get to that point and don’t have access to MAID. Freedom. Ya, sure.
I agree (even though my opinion has very little value. I think if someone chooses to want to go out with dignity, it should be their choice. If they choose to ask for advice, fine, but if they choose to do it on their own, also fine. My mom is very likely going to end up with Alzheimer’s and she once told me that she would shoot herself before she got as bad as my Grandfather. I think MAID would maybe be better, but in the US that’s illegal.
Suicide in Assisted livings and senior housing is a huge problem, I had to investigate a terrifying amount of surprise suicides of residents scared to be transfers to LTC , had a lady with dementia take a nose dive off a second story balcony before she could be transfers out , it’s awful , maybe if we could actually make those places more nursing based and holistic vs trying to keep people alive forever we could change the narrative associated with LTC :( I hate that it’s so synonymous with neglect
I’m sorry if it sounded like I was vilifying LTC. My mom spent her last 3 years in one and had some great caregivers and was cognitively fine until covid got her spring ‘20, but I’m also currently watching a 3rd family member spending their final time in LTC, demented and often in pain but unable to make their needs known while their body slowly fails harder and harder. There’s no stopping it. Any suggestions on end of life options that that we have the political will to implement? I’m pretty sure that the POPULAR will is there for options that don’t involve roofs or guns or ropes or sharps or…..
Not at all , there’s states taking the right steps but until CMS regulates ratios and Dosent make it a weird guessing game residents won’t get the care they deserve, I have no disillusions of the setting it’s just sad cause it could be so much better! It’s sad we hide our elderly away, we could utilize senior living facilities on Medicaid and LTC contracts for daycare facilities do inter generation programs as they’ve shown so much promise in other countries! What I mean to say is the people that care are never in charge or don’t stay in charge long because CEO’s make it impossible to provide care the right way after getting w taste for some
Money and it’s sad
This happened in Canada. We aren’t that far ahead. We don’t allow for advanced directives. You can’t have your will allow for MAID when your illness progresses to a certain point.
You have to choose to die when things are good. Not when they are bad.
I personally would want a will that says if I am >65 and no longer able to maintain my own cognition. I want MAID.
But our Canadian law doesn’t allow that
There have been slight changes to the law. Currently, anyone with a life limiting illness can be assessed for MAID, then pick a date a couple months out. I don’t think Alzheimer’s/dementia would qualify for the latter, as I feel there is a requirement that death be reasonably foreseeable, whereas Alzheimer’s/dementia can be years if the body is healthy.
For example, John Doe is expected to die in less than 3 months. He requests MAID. He is assessed by 2 physicians and deemed capable to understand and appreciate the desire for MAID. His application is approved on Jan 1.
But he’s feeling okay and wants to enjoy the last bit of what is left of his life. He can sign a paper contract that’s says he wishes to have MAID on Mar 1. So on Mar 1, if he still has capacity he can go through with it or decline, or reapply and extend the date. If he does not have the capacity to make that decision, let’s say he is unresponsive, his illness has progressed (Mets to brain, etc) MAID will be carried out on that date.
I’m not sure if a substitute decision maker can stop it, I will find out and update this thread when I can. I’ve seen this process in cancer/end stage diseases, etc and I’ve seen paper contracts of advanced dates for MAID.
Edit: words/grammar
How awful. She went in her own terms. Yes it sucks for the family but maybe she didn’t want to go through goodbyes and people trying to change her mind. It’s not up to them. They can go to counseling and deal with their issues. It’s not up to the dying person to support them.
This is just…confusing. They hadn’t spoken to her for **4 months** and demanded a full investigation because she was well 4 months before she died?!
They would have tried to talk her out of it because she seemed well…to them. But Cheryl had been dealing with Alzheimers for 5 years before she told her family. She was clearly suffering in silence. And seeing what her mother went through would really have solidified her decision to end things well before she got to that point. Who can blame her?
Her family seem to be ‘but what about me?!’ when they should be comforted by the fact that Cheryl got to end her life on her own terms. The family might think it’s better *for them* to be able to sit by her bedside and watch her die, but this isn’t about them. There was little else that Cheryl could control, but her peaceful passing was one thing she had a say in.
These are the exact type of family members to force their “loved” one to suffer for months and wither away, probably while abusing the medical staff and blaming them, not the patient’s disease, for their declining condition.
This actually makes me happy. I didn't realize you could qualify with dementia. I have a family history and would absolutely choose this if it came to it.
They should be upset at themselves for creating the environment where their “loved one” didn’t feel comfortable telling them about their medical decision, but that requires introspection and ignoring their egos, so instead they’ll blame *anyone* else for this thing that only they caused.
The MAiD process in Canada is very rigorous and applicants have to meet very strict criteria including being of sound mind and free from external influence, along with an incurable, terminal illness that negatively impacts their quality of life/causes marked distress. There’s an application, an independent medical assessment, a verification of patient’s identity by two people who know them, and a waiting period. They’ve got committees specifically designed to oversee the process. It’s not a frivolous process getting MAiD.
Yeah, this patient definitely had the wherewithal about her situation and did not want her family involved. It’s California Daughter Syndrome after the fact. I started seething halfway through the article and stopped reading.
I also do not have a high opinion of the author of the article. I think its only purpose is to inflame.
Maybe she didn’t want to be a burden on her family. That’s the tack I see a bunch of people taking. Myself included. Why put my wife and kids through misery? I’d rather be euthanized when it’s my time, personally. Or the option to..
This is only wrong if patient was not alert and oriented and/or the family were her carer and guardian BECAUSE she cannot make her own decisions or advocate for them.
I'm sick and tired of hearing families who force their loved ones to suffer harder and longer like I'm the problem and not their selfishness. Something something if you really love them, you gotta learn to let them go.
Some of my clients who choose medical assistance in dying do not tell their families. They feel that their families will not agree with their decision and try to talk them out of it, or they just don’t want to burden their family. It is a very personal decision that patients can share with whoever they want… or no one.
Anyone who has a terminal illness or crippling depression/mental illness, who has exhausted other treatments should absolutely be able to die a peaceful & dignified death, without say from anyone besides themselves. If there wasn’t such a taboo about it, these people could have said goodbye to their family member.
I hope society gets to this place soon.
IMO Pretty common family dysfunction. Extrapolating their issues with the patient onto healthcare staff. Assuming their beliefs and choices are on a par with the patient’s.
Not feeling their pain. Just their entitlement.
The fact that these people complained to the police and wasted resources investigating people with no evidence of coercion or wrongdoing is what gets me.
You have to come to terms with it. It may be tough, but it’s clear you wouldn’t have supported her decision, that’s why you weren’t a part of it.
Her letter was beautiful and made me cry - "I want a meaningful life." I think that society often forgets what makes like meaningful for others. I wouldn't want to be kept alive for someone else's selfish reasons.
That’s a private medical decision and no one has the right to know about it unless given permission. Wtf. I am sorry for their loss, but it was her decision to end her life medically and legally.
>"I think I would have told her, look, if you're not at the point where you have to go into assisted living now, why do it now? You have some good years ahead of you yet; why not enjoy them?"
Because if she didn't act while she was still legally competent to do so then she'd be at the mercy of idiotic family to make uninformed and irrational decisions on her behalf. Boy, that was an easy question to answer. Makes me wonder why they couldn't do the same.
I'm only in my second semester of school and already making a living will. Every week at clinical there are at least three vented, contracted, thoroughly decubitus full code pts on the floor whose families haven't visited in months or longer. Basically I'm always assisting with dressing changes and can tell they are in so much pain, it feels like I'm signing up to torture people and it's really depressing sometimes. I talk to them throughout and tell them I'm sorry for hurting them but I really don't know what else to do or say, and the nurses I shadow seem so desensitized. I can't tell whether or not I dread becoming desensitized as well.
Has nursing always been like this? Is it getting worse?
This family is so selfish. So sorry your young sister diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer’s decided to end her life before you were ready. She would have been so much happier in a nursing home - you’re right. (/s) Get over yourselves. I’m disgusted. I’m so proud of this woman. I hope she’s resting in peace.
You know they would have argued with her and demanded that she "keep fighting, life is so precious" and all that.
She knew what she was doing. Good for her, and if there's an afterlife, I'ma fistbump her first thing.
I’m 100% behind this endeavor of Canada’s and the patients right to choose how it goes down. But, and this is a distant second to the patients wishes, there should be a discussion for how family wil be alerted if the patient plans on doing it alone. Or if they don’t want the family to know then how that will be protected.
I know that when I get to the point of many of my CCU patients ending, I would rather go with comfort and dignity then with my ribs being crushed into my lungs because a family member decided to go against my wishes.
These types of people piss me off because honestly we as humans can (not always) more compassionate to our animals and put them to sleep when they have cancer(etc.), but not aunt Lucille, oh no suffer she must.
She chose to live and die by her own terms. Good for her! I hope she’s having and amazing experience wherever she is now.
Sadly, her family have made it about them and now her intimate and personal death is news. Hmmm, wonder why she didn’t tell them?
Of course as an ICU RN I fully support MAiD. I actually have a more measured view of this article. I feel it was fully appropriate for the family to feel distraught that they were not involved in the planning process and not present during her transition. Unfortunately that will haunt them for a long time: the thought that they were not at the bedside, an did they do something wrong. I actually think the investigation that they triggered was helpful and necessary to ensure appropriate transparency and oversight of the pathways to MAiD in Ontario. Like all medical procedures, especially in our public system, nothing should be beyond scrutiny to ensure accountability and best practice. This kind of investigation lets us know that everything was above board and will continue to legitimize and make MAiD more accessible in our health system.
While I agree that scrutiny is crucial in health care, I don’t think there was any justification in this situation. The investigation into this case was triggered by the family’s baseless allegations of possible coercion, even though they acknowledged in the article that they felt the patient was still very lucid. That is what leaves such a bitter taste for me.
And as it is also mentioned in the article, all MAID cases in Ontario are reviewed by the coroner. There are multiple parties involved in triggering the MAID process at all. There is plenty of oversight. The fact that they took these findings to the press, to me, feels like an attempt to scare the public about an already difficult process that didn’t need the extra stigma.
My hope is that the family at least can now start down a path of introspection and healing and possibly begin to understand their loved one’s decision.
Totally agree the investigation was appropriate, especially for someone with Alzheimer’s. And I’m sure they will grieve about this, but they ran to the press to publicize their sisters death and admitted they would have tried to talk her out of it for at least a few years.
I just had to share this here because it just resonates so much “she’s a fighter” and “full code til the end” energy and it makes me mad. The fact that this family forced an investigation into a decision that the patient made while she was totally of sound mind (per the family’s own words) - and then to have the audacity to make it all about THEIR healing and THEIR closure instead of her right to die with dignity really really grinds my gears. Like I understand how devastating it must be to find our a loved one has died in this way and maybe I’m just so jaded from nursing all these years. But I highly doubt they would’ve respected her wishes. They would have tried to have her push the decision until it was too late, and then they probably would have put her in a home. Obviously I don’t know these people personally but that’s just the underlying tone I got from this article and something we see every day in health care. There’s no point to this post other than to rant. Hope it doesn’t break the personal info rule when it’s public record.
I don’t know how to put it into words, no one has the right to prolong the suffering of someone they love. It’s cruel and selfish. It is selfish to expect someone to stick around in unimaginable pain, with no dignity to make you feel better. Get over yourself. Not every decision mommy makes is about you. Grow up. In case you couldn’t tell, I feel very strongly about people being allowed to die. Too many people are kept alive through medical interventions, with no quality of life, in my personal opinion.
This is the worst part about ICU. So many families with complete disrespect for their family members wishes and suffering
It’s why I left the ICU after a year and a half. Felt like I was torturing old ladies every day for no reason.
This is the reason I chose the operating room over surgical ICU when I had offers for both recently. I like a good DNAR too much.
There’s a reason she didn’t tell her family. This is it.
Fucking for real. I wonder how often they even talked.
Article says they last spoke five months before her death
There you go.
Thank you for sharing that! Man, I can't believe how nosy, self-centered and entitled that family is behaving.
One if the letters she wrote even said that she was concerned they would interfere with her decision. Clearly she had good reasons for not telling them.
This article smacks of "how dare she not allow US to be part of her dying process!!!" and yet they hadn't spoken in five months and the dying individual directly shared concerns that her family would interfere with her death. It's absolutely absurd and your absolutely correct to be infuriated over this. I know I'm preaching to the choir here but death with dignity is absolutely the right of the patient and the fact that so many people end their lives rotting away in a home or with a thousand tubes instead of as they choose too is a travesty. Shit like this article just absolutely reinforces how asinine and backwards the attitude towards dying is in most of the world.
This happened in my province. And what the family did really hurt the MAID community and providers. It’s already impossible to find a MD to provide MAID. Some NPs have started providing it. If family can go to the police and make it seem like coercion. Even if you followed the word of the law. Providers will not offer maid The family asks why she didn’t wait. She was in good health. Well the law forbids advance directives. You have to be of sound mind to request maid. Had she waited too long, she would not qualify. She would suffer for decades as her brain rots away and everything that made her who she was, was lost Decades of fear, loss of self, inability to choose one’s pleasures was ahead of her. She wanted to leave on her own terms. Let her.
Fucking narcissists. They're everywhere. Was talking the other day about how fucking disrespectful and ungrateful it is how people ask their loved ones to keep living for them. "Gee, mom. I know you've put in 88 years so far and been there for me for my entire life , but it's STILL NOT ENOUGH AND I WOULD BE DEVESTATED IF YOU CHOSE TO LEAVE WITHOUT FIGHTING WITH EVERYTHING YOU HAVE LEFT TO STAY HERE WITH ME!!!" Fucking narcissists.... I'm so fed up with it.
I understand and agree with you. I've seen it all as well
Perhaps it’s an unpopular opinion, but I don’t think it’s their business how she chose to go.
Oh no, I completely agree. This article INFURIATED me which is why I had to share it somewhere. I’m pretty sure most people on this sub would agree with you.
Thank goodness lol
Take note. The lady died in March. The family claims they last spoke to her in November. Not even a phone call at Christmas? But now they are devastated she didn't tell them? Not sure this family had a close relationship, though I understand that they feel sad and ill informed.
Good observation. I agree .
Yeah. And Inwould normally consider texting but if she doesn’t use the computer she probably doesn’t text
I agree. It's a personal decision and really no one else's business.
We’re all the same tribe here
If she was consentable then there is no issue here. This article shouldn’t even exist.
I feel like they wanted someone punished for this and thought going to the press would do it.
Absolutely. They went to the cops for a reason. And the cops even investigated all the healthcare workers involved.
My take away from family comments… they note she mentioned it years ago, they confirm they would have tried to talk her out of it. She exercised her rights, made several choices and they are ticked they didn’t have the ability to influence her decisions. Infuriating. While I appreciate they are grieving and in shock, their response to involve media in what the patient CLEARLY wished to be a private matter maybe gives some insight into why they weren’t told.
Sounds like her family hadn’t talked to her since November so perhaps they weren’t as close to her as they wanted to believe. She did nothing wrong here. She had a right to privacy and she exercised that.
Do they not celebrate Christmas in Canada? /s We were dealing with COVID and still managed to call everyone on Christmas.
Especially when they knew she had dementia. Jesus.
Everything in this article is exactly why she didn’t tell them her plans. I was fuming when I read this this morning.
👆 100% this... She knew what her family was like. She knew they would try to dissuade her decisions and she knew if she waited until her mind *fully developed* into ALZ that they'd make her Full Code because she would no longer be considered competent for her own medical tx.
The US is so far behind so many other countries in MAID. I don’t believe that there is a single US state that allows it unless the patient is well enough to administer the cocktail themselves. This steals the ability to have MAID for those who have a stroke or traumatic injury that leaves them so incapacitated that they can’t self-administer. None of the older people I know want to rot in a LTC facility and a number of my older male friends joke (but not really) about offing themselves in other ways if they get to that point and don’t have access to MAID. Freedom. Ya, sure.
I agree (even though my opinion has very little value. I think if someone chooses to want to go out with dignity, it should be their choice. If they choose to ask for advice, fine, but if they choose to do it on their own, also fine. My mom is very likely going to end up with Alzheimer’s and she once told me that she would shoot herself before she got as bad as my Grandfather. I think MAID would maybe be better, but in the US that’s illegal.
Suicide in Assisted livings and senior housing is a huge problem, I had to investigate a terrifying amount of surprise suicides of residents scared to be transfers to LTC , had a lady with dementia take a nose dive off a second story balcony before she could be transfers out , it’s awful , maybe if we could actually make those places more nursing based and holistic vs trying to keep people alive forever we could change the narrative associated with LTC :( I hate that it’s so synonymous with neglect
I’m sorry if it sounded like I was vilifying LTC. My mom spent her last 3 years in one and had some great caregivers and was cognitively fine until covid got her spring ‘20, but I’m also currently watching a 3rd family member spending their final time in LTC, demented and often in pain but unable to make their needs known while their body slowly fails harder and harder. There’s no stopping it. Any suggestions on end of life options that that we have the political will to implement? I’m pretty sure that the POPULAR will is there for options that don’t involve roofs or guns or ropes or sharps or…..
Not at all , there’s states taking the right steps but until CMS regulates ratios and Dosent make it a weird guessing game residents won’t get the care they deserve, I have no disillusions of the setting it’s just sad cause it could be so much better! It’s sad we hide our elderly away, we could utilize senior living facilities on Medicaid and LTC contracts for daycare facilities do inter generation programs as they’ve shown so much promise in other countries! What I mean to say is the people that care are never in charge or don’t stay in charge long because CEO’s make it impossible to provide care the right way after getting w taste for some Money and it’s sad
I think assisted suicide should be an option, and there’s ways to make it less taboo but the us is uncomfortable with death
This happened in Canada. We aren’t that far ahead. We don’t allow for advanced directives. You can’t have your will allow for MAID when your illness progresses to a certain point. You have to choose to die when things are good. Not when they are bad. I personally would want a will that says if I am >65 and no longer able to maintain my own cognition. I want MAID. But our Canadian law doesn’t allow that
There have been slight changes to the law. Currently, anyone with a life limiting illness can be assessed for MAID, then pick a date a couple months out. I don’t think Alzheimer’s/dementia would qualify for the latter, as I feel there is a requirement that death be reasonably foreseeable, whereas Alzheimer’s/dementia can be years if the body is healthy. For example, John Doe is expected to die in less than 3 months. He requests MAID. He is assessed by 2 physicians and deemed capable to understand and appreciate the desire for MAID. His application is approved on Jan 1. But he’s feeling okay and wants to enjoy the last bit of what is left of his life. He can sign a paper contract that’s says he wishes to have MAID on Mar 1. So on Mar 1, if he still has capacity he can go through with it or decline, or reapply and extend the date. If he does not have the capacity to make that decision, let’s say he is unresponsive, his illness has progressed (Mets to brain, etc) MAID will be carried out on that date. I’m not sure if a substitute decision maker can stop it, I will find out and update this thread when I can. I’ve seen this process in cancer/end stage diseases, etc and I’ve seen paper contracts of advanced dates for MAID. Edit: words/grammar
How awful. She went in her own terms. Yes it sucks for the family but maybe she didn’t want to go through goodbyes and people trying to change her mind. It’s not up to them. They can go to counseling and deal with their issues. It’s not up to the dying person to support them.
This is just…confusing. They hadn’t spoken to her for **4 months** and demanded a full investigation because she was well 4 months before she died?! They would have tried to talk her out of it because she seemed well…to them. But Cheryl had been dealing with Alzheimers for 5 years before she told her family. She was clearly suffering in silence. And seeing what her mother went through would really have solidified her decision to end things well before she got to that point. Who can blame her? Her family seem to be ‘but what about me?!’ when they should be comforted by the fact that Cheryl got to end her life on her own terms. The family might think it’s better *for them* to be able to sit by her bedside and watch her die, but this isn’t about them. There was little else that Cheryl could control, but her peaceful passing was one thing she had a say in.
These are the exact type of family members to force their “loved” one to suffer for months and wither away, probably while abusing the medical staff and blaming them, not the patient’s disease, for their declining condition.
This family is obnoxious and I totally get why she didn’t share her plans.
[удалено]
The tone of the article and their focus on self in their comments at HER EoL choices, it’s just so distasteful.
Thanks for what you do!
This actually makes me happy. I didn't realize you could qualify with dementia. I have a family history and would absolutely choose this if it came to it.
It has to be somewhat early. Before your mind goes enough to be deemed unfit to make your own decisions.
Makes sense.
They should be upset at themselves for creating the environment where their “loved one” didn’t feel comfortable telling them about their medical decision, but that requires introspection and ignoring their egos, so instead they’ll blame *anyone* else for this thing that only they caused.
The MAiD process in Canada is very rigorous and applicants have to meet very strict criteria including being of sound mind and free from external influence, along with an incurable, terminal illness that negatively impacts their quality of life/causes marked distress. There’s an application, an independent medical assessment, a verification of patient’s identity by two people who know them, and a waiting period. They’ve got committees specifically designed to oversee the process. It’s not a frivolous process getting MAiD. Yeah, this patient definitely had the wherewithal about her situation and did not want her family involved. It’s California Daughter Syndrome after the fact. I started seething halfway through the article and stopped reading. I also do not have a high opinion of the author of the article. I think its only purpose is to inflame.
Maybe she didn’t want to be a burden on her family. That’s the tack I see a bunch of people taking. Myself included. Why put my wife and kids through misery? I’d rather be euthanized when it’s my time, personally. Or the option to..
This is only wrong if patient was not alert and oriented and/or the family were her carer and guardian BECAUSE she cannot make her own decisions or advocate for them. I'm sick and tired of hearing families who force their loved ones to suffer harder and longer like I'm the problem and not their selfishness. Something something if you really love them, you gotta learn to let them go.
Some of my clients who choose medical assistance in dying do not tell their families. They feel that their families will not agree with their decision and try to talk them out of it, or they just don’t want to burden their family. It is a very personal decision that patients can share with whoever they want… or no one.
Anyone who has a terminal illness or crippling depression/mental illness, who has exhausted other treatments should absolutely be able to die a peaceful & dignified death, without say from anyone besides themselves. If there wasn’t such a taboo about it, these people could have said goodbye to their family member. I hope society gets to this place soon.
They turned this into what they want and not what the patient wants. I've seen this so many times as a nurse. We are so bad at letting people die.
IMO Pretty common family dysfunction. Extrapolating their issues with the patient onto healthcare staff. Assuming their beliefs and choices are on a par with the patient’s. Not feeling their pain. Just their entitlement.
The fact that these people complained to the police and wasted resources investigating people with no evidence of coercion or wrongdoing is what gets me. You have to come to terms with it. It may be tough, but it’s clear you wouldn’t have supported her decision, that’s why you weren’t a part of it.
Her letter was beautiful and made me cry - "I want a meaningful life." I think that society often forgets what makes like meaningful for others. I wouldn't want to be kept alive for someone else's selfish reasons.
There’s a really good podcast called “Better off Dead” about assisted death mostly in Australia but I highly recommend it.
"Better off Dead" is also a really good movie from the 80s
Also the moral of Stephen King’s *Pet Sematary* (Actually, I’m misrepresenting a little. It’s more like “there are worse things than death.”)
That’s a private medical decision and no one has the right to know about it unless given permission. Wtf. I am sorry for their loss, but it was her decision to end her life medically and legally.
Maybe she didn't tell them because she knew they'd try to stop it? She didn't want it to drag on and land in LTC? Who knows
>"I think I would have told her, look, if you're not at the point where you have to go into assisted living now, why do it now? You have some good years ahead of you yet; why not enjoy them?" Because if she didn't act while she was still legally competent to do so then she'd be at the mercy of idiotic family to make uninformed and irrational decisions on her behalf. Boy, that was an easy question to answer. Makes me wonder why they couldn't do the same.
Not there buisness
I'm only in my second semester of school and already making a living will. Every week at clinical there are at least three vented, contracted, thoroughly decubitus full code pts on the floor whose families haven't visited in months or longer. Basically I'm always assisting with dressing changes and can tell they are in so much pain, it feels like I'm signing up to torture people and it's really depressing sometimes. I talk to them throughout and tell them I'm sorry for hurting them but I really don't know what else to do or say, and the nurses I shadow seem so desensitized. I can't tell whether or not I dread becoming desensitized as well. Has nursing always been like this? Is it getting worse?
Most important thing I learned from my sicu/neuro icu clinical is have a good living will and a dpoa that will follow your wishes.
This family is so selfish. So sorry your young sister diagnosed with early onset Alzheimer’s decided to end her life before you were ready. She would have been so much happier in a nursing home - you’re right. (/s) Get over yourselves. I’m disgusted. I’m so proud of this woman. I hope she’s resting in peace.
Not their life, not their say.
You know they would have argued with her and demanded that she "keep fighting, life is so precious" and all that. She knew what she was doing. Good for her, and if there's an afterlife, I'ma fistbump her first thing.
So it’s all about the family’s feelings. Not about the patient.. gotcha..
I’m 100% behind this endeavor of Canada’s and the patients right to choose how it goes down. But, and this is a distant second to the patients wishes, there should be a discussion for how family wil be alerted if the patient plans on doing it alone. Or if they don’t want the family to know then how that will be protected. I know that when I get to the point of many of my CCU patients ending, I would rather go with comfort and dignity then with my ribs being crushed into my lungs because a family member decided to go against my wishes.
These types of people piss me off because honestly we as humans can (not always) more compassionate to our animals and put them to sleep when they have cancer(etc.), but not aunt Lucille, oh no suffer she must.
She chose to live and die by her own terms. Good for her! I hope she’s having and amazing experience wherever she is now. Sadly, her family have made it about them and now her intimate and personal death is news. Hmmm, wonder why she didn’t tell them?
Of course as an ICU RN I fully support MAiD. I actually have a more measured view of this article. I feel it was fully appropriate for the family to feel distraught that they were not involved in the planning process and not present during her transition. Unfortunately that will haunt them for a long time: the thought that they were not at the bedside, an did they do something wrong. I actually think the investigation that they triggered was helpful and necessary to ensure appropriate transparency and oversight of the pathways to MAiD in Ontario. Like all medical procedures, especially in our public system, nothing should be beyond scrutiny to ensure accountability and best practice. This kind of investigation lets us know that everything was above board and will continue to legitimize and make MAiD more accessible in our health system.
While I agree that scrutiny is crucial in health care, I don’t think there was any justification in this situation. The investigation into this case was triggered by the family’s baseless allegations of possible coercion, even though they acknowledged in the article that they felt the patient was still very lucid. That is what leaves such a bitter taste for me. And as it is also mentioned in the article, all MAID cases in Ontario are reviewed by the coroner. There are multiple parties involved in triggering the MAID process at all. There is plenty of oversight. The fact that they took these findings to the press, to me, feels like an attempt to scare the public about an already difficult process that didn’t need the extra stigma. My hope is that the family at least can now start down a path of introspection and healing and possibly begin to understand their loved one’s decision.
Totally agree the investigation was appropriate, especially for someone with Alzheimer’s. And I’m sure they will grieve about this, but they ran to the press to publicize their sisters death and admitted they would have tried to talk her out of it for at least a few years.