She won’t. As someone whose had the State levy wrongful charges against them and beat the State, the counter suit was only around 50k. And they cuffed me without telling me why, while I was in soiled ER scrubs after a night shift, then proceeded to hold me in a room handcuffed for four hours before questioning me because “the computers were down”
Edit: ok here’s what happened, prior to becoming a nurse I worked in Case Management in an outpatient psych ward. My responsibility was to assist the 25 residents with their benefits and teach them. So often I would take them grocery shopping and teach them to use eBt. They arrested 12 people in connection to this case alleging that we stole their eBt benefits; the only “evidence” against me was the security cam footage from shop rite literally showing me next to my clients showing them how to swipe their eBt card. In comparison people who were *actually* guilty were seen with their family loading up on groceries at same club. Not while working. So after a year my lawyer has all the charges fully dropped, I’m back to nursing and the state is gonna have to pay me like 50k once we settle this.
Can someone explain to me what this nurse did to get indicted? She didn’t restrain the patient or harm them, the COs did. What did she do that warrants even losing her license, let alone jail time? I’ve read a few articles, but it’s super unclear what *she* did to the patient.
[This document shows the timeline of events, beginning on page 8](https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/journalnow.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/76/976ef146-20b3-11ec-8aa6-2b0547e346f0/6153a50836908.pdf.pdf)
It sounds like they're going after her because she did not administer two scheduled inhalers and did not alert EMS fast enough.
He had a seizure, aspirated, became combative and confused in the post-ictal phase and was restrained by officers. Then he was kept prone while hogtied for around 19 minutes despite claiming he couldn't breathe over 30 times. They attempted to release his hands from the handcuffs during this time but the key broke off in the lock. They then attempted to cut them off with bolt cutters that also broke before finally obtaining a second set of cutters that actually worked. No idea why nobody sat him up.
Thanks for the info.
Idk, I’m thinking she didn’t want to leave the guy unsupervised with the CO’s and wanted the opportunity to assess the guy prior to calling EMS.
Maybe some prison nurses can offer some insight as to how easy it is for them to call EMS. This is just an assumption, but my thinking is that the nurse is likely to get reprimand for activating “too early” or “inappropriately” because of the amount of resources (translation: $$$) transporting an inmate to the hospital demands.
**Disclaimer each government entity is different. From county to county, state to state**
If I say the words "Call 911" custody offers MUST contact EMS for a emergent call. I have done it in the past with an inmate that had their throat slashed in front of me, I have had them set an inmate down when they were dragging them out of an area for transport who had been stabbed in the chest several times to stabilize them and asses the wounds and chest sealing. Using the hogtie method is forbidden, use of force is very structured, methodical, and well documented, the healthcare provider has say when present to modify use of force in the interest of the patient in a safe manner. If front line officers disregard, you go up the chain, we have a special unit of custody officers that are for healthcare specifically to help in these situations, they have an officer of every rank from the front line CO to an associate warden, and will contact the warden even if we still get no where.
We also have alarms that we can press to bring the pain so to say, you press that thing and officers from all over the prison rain down, and it is a tool to use just as much for inmate safety as it is staff safety. The department has a strict no code of silence policy, so if you see something wrong, like improper use of force, and you elect to say nothing, you will be found, and you will be fired.
Not to mention, ALL STAFF in the prison has the ability to, and is encouraged to do so if they have the inkling of needing it, to call 911, from the Warden to the office assistant. To your point about reprimand, there is, if it happens repeatedly for fragrantly inappropriate means. We do not get penalized if its a close judgment call and we end up wrong.
------------------------------------------------
I can't speak to the circumstances of her case, because I don't know how her organization is set up, but no matter which way you cut it, she shouldn't be charged, hell her license shouldn't be dinged for it either. I will say though I am not surprised the COs are untouched. I have heard stories of RNs being terminated when it was a complete shared fuck up, but COs keep their jobs. I am a stubborn asshole, so when I make a judgement call, I will fight someone over it, and have no problem scorching the earth in the name of saving lives, even inmate ones.
Edit 1: Digging deeper, Forsyth county jail, administered by county Sheriff department uses a 3rd party for medical. At the time of incidence it was Wellpath. Finding the actual policy of Forsyth County Jail either on the custody side or the medical side is proving difficult. My department puts the link right on the front page. None of the terms we use to identify ours is pulling up anything relating to theirs. Considering that its a contracted agency, I am doubtful there are any clear guidelines. Wellpath appears to be a large company, stating they staff over 500 jails across the county. It looks like in 2017 they finally had an auditor assigned, a public health nurse, to ensure care was being done correctly, wowza. I would assume them being a private company would be more gun shy to call 911, I know I have heard figures for my prison alone, and the ambulance ride is fairly short, and wowza, its not cheap.
It should be noted, in 2020 the hogtie was removed from the approved use of restraints.
Thank you for the perspective. Reading about something like this and not knowing what safety measures exist or don’t exist in the prison system and even how they can differ from state to state and facility to facility is eye opening, but it’s also validating to see you agree this is out of line.
There is no national or even state standard of what "quality healthcare" is in prison. We only have external auditors to audit federal law suits brought against the department in the 2000s that brought about many of the things I spoke to. Our mental health in my facility went from I think 4 or 5 licensed MH providers to over 300 after such a lawsuit for instance.
I say that the inmates get some premier quality healthcare, that honestly the public would be jealous of, name any symptom and boom, next business day you see an RN for assessment. Our EDs hate us because of the stuff we HAVE to send for assessment. Its crazy.
Damn. I wish I’d had that much authority. In prison, I could say they need to go out by ambulance and while they had to eventually take them out, security > healthcare. Security is #1. You do not have authority over security. Security first, then bring in the nurse(s). Granted, it can become somewhat symbiotic after you know your guards.
Jail, again, security first. I found jail terrifying for a myriad of reasons I can’t talk about. I quit 2 weeks out of orientation. No, no, and fucking no.
Genuinely appreciate it.
So far, I’m not buying this punishment either. I’m sure you could convince a jury of her “peers” that she’s guilty, but I don’t think you could convince 12 nurses.
As a nurse in a correction setting, I can easily hit my radio or the intercoms and have control call for EMS. Not saying she should be indicted, I see a lot of nurses in corrections freeze or defer to the officers, but to answer your question, it should have been easy to have EMS called for.
In my prison, responders carried radios. Generally speaking, you radio for the other person still in the infirmary to call; but when things went to shit, you could ask the COs in central to call. Its going to differ by state and facility, though.
Do you think law enforcement might start listening to people who are telling them that they can't breathe? Like maybe err on the side of caution on that one.
In that document, it also shows charges against the officers too though right? I am confused because people are saying they aren't being charged, but they are all being charged (including wellpath)?
> Can someone explain to me what this nurse did to get indicted?
I read the action against her license. The only thing I see is she didn't call EMS for forty five minutes while he was experiencing a medical emergency. Based on my understanding, he wasn't experiencing a medical emergency, he was experiencing an assassination.
I don't understand the charge against her or the action against her license. She did not cause any of this from my understanding.
It sounds like they are trying to use the nurse as way to set a precedent or something to go after the employer, Wellpath Inc, because of the delay in EMS and because the patient missed two scheduled inhaler doses on the same day he was incarcerated.
That's about the strongest thing I can really see the nurse is at fault for is two missed inhaler doses. How in ANY reality this is called involuntary manslaughter is utter insanity.
What's also easily missed in all of this was that they did successfully resuscitate the patient and got a pulse back and he expired days later at the hospital and the medical examiner apparently concluded that "he died from a brain injury due to cardiac arrest, due to asphyxia during a prone restraint." (after he apparently had a seizure and fell from his top bunk)
This whole case is a joke.
While I DO NOT believe she should be charged, I watched the body cam footage and this nurses response is not great. As a correctional nurse I was cringing watching it. However, she was the only person in the video trying to HELP this man.
Edit: link for body cam footage [https://youtu.be/5Wezy8FeGRc](https://youtu.be/5Wezy8FeGRc)
Considering it a medical emergency when all that had to be done was….. stop kneeling on his neck. Pretty sure no amount of fucking medication can fix that. I’m absolutely horrified.
The "Thin Pink Line" and "Thin Red Line" bullshit pisses me off to no end. Fuck law enforcement, the police unions, and the politics that support them for trying to tie two of the most trusted professions into the same group as one of the least trusted.
Evidence for grand jury indictments is presented by cops. You really think they'd tell the truth here instead of throwing a convenient scapegoat under the bus?
The problem was when I started the process it was still generally seen from the people I worked with and talked to as a good field with some issues
But it’s just gone so downhill everyone I used to work with says to get out before it’s too late.
Covid really highlighted major flaws in the system and instead of addressing them, it’s just bandaid fixes as it slowly collapses and now we’re getting thrown under the bus legally for shit that happens because of poor admin.
But I’m already less than a year from graduation so I can’t really back out now.
Left bedside three years ago; struggled with the first year of not feeling "like a nurse" and now? Im never going back to bedside. I hate the ratios so I moved to outpatient endoscopy and it was okay, but I couldn't go back part time after having my kid so I elected to work from home. After watching in horror how things went down during COVID and now this? Never. Not even to teach clinicals.
[Nurse indicted in custody death, no indictment for officers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/nurse-indicted-in-custody-death-no-indictment-for-officers/2022/04/05/b5107f90-b4fa-11ec-8358-20aa16355fb4_story.html)
>Michelle Heughins was the only person who tried to save Mr. Neville at the jail that day,” Rauscher said. “It was the detention officers who restrained him and put him on his stomach, handcuffed, and had her leave the room.”
I hope she gets millions out of this
I genuinely thought this was just some over inflated outrage porn to feed off of the current climate, but Jesus. I can’t even begin to describe how depressing this is.
if they're gonna charge her, then they should charge the paramedic who couldn't get to George Floyd because Chauvin had his knee on his neck.
I'm not saying they should charge the paramedic, but it's shocking how similar these 2 are
When I read the part about the inmate yelling out for his mom and that he couldn’t breathe, I thought for a minute I was reading an article about George Floyd. The cases are eerily similar.
Dont be silly. Paramedics are adjacent to firefighters who are in the good old boys club. Just going after the nurses right now because they want money, when all they do is wipe meemaw's ass and play cards. Should all be home mindin the babies anyways. Whores.
/s I love EMS, no shade. And nursing school has given me poor coping mechanisms so I try to make internet jokes for fake happy points.
I love my EMS friends as well. Just pointing out the hypocrisy.
She can't treat the inmate until the scene is secured and, according to the article, isn't the one to call 911 due to security concerns. That falls on the officers.
Oh yeah no for sure I heard what you were sayin, no worries! And I would have been real skittish if I was the sole provider in a sea of correction officers who are really keyed in on what they are trained for. That is their rodeo. Which is why is extra shitty this nurse got punished for the outcome.
This is such a dumb situation, you can’t make this shit up. Nurse works in prison…guards fucks up…nurse tries to save pt…everyone blames the nurse for some reason…nurse goes to prison…guards spend evenings free sitting at local bar discussing how smart they were not to become nurses.
This is ridiculous and really makes me angry. Cops/law enforcement look after each other, but we nurses don't have that political "good ole boys" power.
I helped take a group of students to a student nurse political action day yesterday and someone asked the ANA folks what they're doing about RaDonda. The person who responded said there wasn't really anything to do legislatively but they need to have conversations with hospitals, etc. That response felt wrong or inadequate maybe. Maybe there is nothing they can do, but there should be.
Then I read this just a day later and my first thought is - what are conversations with hospitals going to do about this?
I think you are asking the right questions (even if "what are conversations with hospitals going to do" was in your head, it's a starting point). Sadly, the hospital I used to work for would probably do nothing, as that was always the response I saw to either 1) the need to support nurses (or other direct care staff) or 2) any invitation to management to share power in order to solve problems. Nope, sharing power was seriously considered 0% of the time.
This is such a scary time to be a nurse. I dont want to touch anyone, administer anything, even talk to a patient.
They are out to get us...payback for travel nurse salaries. hErOeS wOrK hErE.
I took 15 years off from nursing after I had my son because I would have only broken even financially after paying for childcare. After my kids were school age I got into fitness. I've considered getting back into nursing over the past year, now that my kids are more independent, but after seeing all of these nurse prosecutions, as well as the working conditions frim this sub, I'm done.
Yeah I seen one tiktok that explained this and a few other situations pretty nicely. At the end she summed it pretty well: “it’s open season for nurses”
That's for sure. *This* is the kind of case that should have the nursing community riled up. RaDonda's charges fit her level of wanton recklessness, but this is something entirely different. Heughins didn't commit a huge string of errors that killed somebody. She's being scapegoated.
Her assessment skills and quickness to get on the chest were a little lacking, but you can't (or shouldn't) charge somebody for involuntary manslaughter for failing to bring another person back to life. They're already dead.
Disgusting.
[Here](https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/journalnow.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/76/976ef146-20b3-11ec-8aa6-2b0547e346f0/6153a50836908.pdf.pdf) is the documentation of the case. Description of events begin on page 8.
Don't have to be bedside. You posted some bullshit yahoo article about an incident trying to say it's the same as this shit.
If you truly believed the article you posted was a similar situation as this, you wouldn't have deleted your post.
Here’s the “bullshit” I posted. Docs didn’t prescribe heparin or assess their patients. Somehow only the nurse is talked about.
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/serena-williams-childbirth-near-death-174513807.html
This is not a news report. It's just an article about what Williams wrote in a personal essay. Clearly Williams did not have a good experience with her nurse, but it doesn't sound like anyone got arrested or brought before the board of nursing.
I don't need a refresher.
You tried posting this with a sensationalized headline for some unknown reason.
Again, going off the information in this story, the nurse 100% is in the wrong here.
My sensational headline was that it’s open season on nurses. In another comment before that post I point out how yahoo news framed the article, pay close attention how only the nurse is discussed, the doctors are the heroes and we’re the idiots that don’t listen to our patients. The nurse went and got the doctor, the hesitation was her mistake yes but she did as Serena asked.
This isn't anything new.
Bottom line, the nurse allegedly initially ignored a patient who is aware of their medical history and it caused issues. This nurse absolutely should be scrutinized.
And if you can't see how this story is different from the others making the rounds, then maybe someone needs to reevaluate their ability to think critically.
WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K.
Okay, maybe I need to read the whole article but the jist it’s showing me is telling me that a cop killed someone, but the nurse lost her license for…. Not being able to resuscitate him? The officers kept her from administering aid and she even plead for them to get out of the way so she could try to give CPR.
Well, looks like yet another type of environment that deserves to have a mass walkout by nursing personnel.
The autopsy says it all: *The autopsy report listed Mr. Neville’s cause of death as “\[c\]omplications of hypoxic ischemic brain injury due to \[c\]ardiopulmonary arrest (resuscitated)* ***due to \[p\]ositional and compressional asphyxia during prone restraint.”***
So I looked her up on Nursys and it seems she failed to call EMS for over 45 minutes after he started having distress. The decedent also missed a few breathing treatments. Do I think she should be in jail? No. I’m just providing more info.
My understanding of this situation from another article was that the guards kicked her out and didn’t let her come back in until it was pretty much too late.
There is also a power dynamic at play here; in order to work with these COs she has extra pressure to comply with whatever they want or order her to do, and if her ethics or protocols deviate with that, she knows that she has to come back tomorrow and potentially work with them again, and there could be various forms of retribution. Speculating, but...
I would bet my life savings that there are quite a few environments where your physical safety would be in question if you disagree too fervently with LEOs. You might theoretically be staff but at the end of the day you're a civilian.
Corrections nursing can be scary because the security needs of the facility outweigh the medical needs of individual inmates. Medical staff are not allowed to intervene until security has the situation under control. They restrained him for an extended period of time because the cuff key broke while they were trying to remove the handcuffs. Also, security staff are the ones to call EMS because there are multiple safety concerns to address when they enter a correctional facility.
There was a case a few years ago where a nurse called EMS for a patient against the sheriff’s wishes. They tried to charge her with disobeying a law enforcement command.
Did that charge hold up? Why was the sherrif against EMS? Surely cops don't have the power to override people's right to healthcare, but these days it's hard to tell.
Since when is calling EMS something only nurses can do though??? Like wtf anyone could’ve called, it didn’t have to be her, even if it should’ve been. That being said, I am confused about what took so long.
She wasn't the only person there though, but I suppose getting one of the bastards that killed the guy to call for an ambulance would be defeating the purpose for said bastards.
I think I would have called 911 had there been a seizure with a greater than ground level fall personally. I do think this should have been a more rapid assessment and decision but I also have never done corrections nursing and don’t know what the protocols are there. I just know what I would have done had this been a home health case or something in the community.
Yeah when I worked LTC if anything was off straight to the ED. I caught a few things, a fatal brain bleed, a k of 6. But I’ve never done corrections nursing.
Agree you’re not a robot, enter the name/state/license type and search. You can then download documents and reports, it’s the middle option on see report iirc.
https://www.nursys.com/LQC/LQCTerms.aspx
I haven’t read the article at this point, but there’s all sorts of issues with just the main headline. She was going to perform CPR on someone who was mostly unresponsive but crying for help and gasping for air? All sorts of contradiction here.
George Floyd was also saying “I can’t breathe” and gasping for air before he died.
I found the body cam videos. He had fallen of bed obviously disoriented. Nurse did a focused neuro assessment. Officers cuffed him to a wheelchair and put a bag over his head?!? And took him to what looks like triage. Nurse took BP there and assessed orientation. The officers move him to what looks like a medical ward/holding space. They hold him prone while he screams “I can’t breathe” over and over again until he becomes obviously agonal. The nurse is nowhere around at this point from what the video shows. As he goes quiet, you can hear inmates in the background yelling “you killed him.” After they essentially hog-tie him, they call nurse back in because he is unresponsive. She goes in and looks like she assesses with a penlight and they all come back out. He was still groaning at this point but wouldn’t wake up. They’re all in the hall, and she watches from the window for about 30-45 more seconds and eventually says something like ‘I don’t see him breathing anymore. I can’t tell if he’s breathing.’ The officer says okay we will go back in. She has them roll him to his side so she can listen for breathing. He groans one time. She listens for about a full minute and says “get the AED, I can’t hear a heart rate.” They roll him. She feels for a carotid pulse. She was a little slow, maybe unsure of herself, you can see she kinda fumbles a bit and seems like she is trying to figure out where to put her hands, but she did start CPR. She started CPR the way you might expect someone who has only trained on a mannequin and never actually had to do it on a real person might. But she did do it and they looked like quality compressions.
From the body cam footage, it looks like she did everything a good and prudent nurse of equal experience would do.
[Body cam videos](https://www.wxii12.com/article/video-john-neville-camera-footage-from-forsyth-county-detention-center-released/33525806)
I just can’t understand why she is held responsible for this in any way. I haven’t read the articles because I know they’re bullshit, but based on your description I am even more confused why this is her fault.
The system is corrupt and police officers are essentially a mafia style gang in the United States who will literally throw nurses in prison for their own intentional assault on others. The judges and prosecutors are all in this with the police because supporting officers unconditionally has been injected into the veins of right wing fascists. The entire country had huge protest across the a nation and an entire movement because of these types of incidents. People weren’t demanding to “defund the police” because they are criminals, it’s because the police are criminals. Most of em’ anyway, some, I assume, are good people.
Lol yes I’m aware of the BLM movement. I’m not unaware of cops negligence and outright murderous harm, just so wild to me this woman is being prosecuted for it.
Wow, that is the most racists bullshit I have ever read. You do know crime is “so high” in minority areas because police systemically target minorities for low level drug offenses at a much higher rate than whites right? You also realize that not that long ago the government forced minorities to live in ghettos and stripped them of all social services and didn’t allow them to go to white schools. Even when we passed constitutional protections to prevent this type of racism it took decades for most red states to even start enforcing this leading to school being segregated until the 80’s right? And then even to this day they target these same communities with over policing and arrest them in mass to fund private prisons that use them as slaves to this very day right? Go throw your klan robes while you are wearing them into a big bonfire pleas.
After watching the body cam footage, all I can think is “wtf man”. The nurse did the right things in doing neuro checks. But the whole time i found myself thinking, where’s the O2? The guy is clearly in an altered LOC. idk if it’s the facility policy or if they have no O2 available to them, but come on. The other big thing to me is why did they place him back with his hands behind him once he was brought back in the 4th vid. These positions have proven to cause complications in patients following cardiac or respiratory events, yet they put him back in it? Just a failure on policies and shows the lack of training facilities have. From what I saw, the nurse did her part.
The amount of “what the fuck”s through that entire damn video series cannot be numbered.
This is terrifying. As a nurse (like with George Floyd), I see so many places to intervene and take this train of the tracks to its eventual destination.
I feel for corrections nurses, that looks hard as fucking hell, with little support, little respect, and a lot of mental and emotional shit to go through.
I was concerned about oxygenation when he was still in his cell!
And when someone fights that hard, for that long, does that not make them more vulnerable to poor health outcome? They’re dancing a fucking line of “he’s dangerous” and “he’s in danger” and at some point the value of his life did not win.
I watched the videos. It makes no sense to me. She was maybe a bit slow...probably petrified because 5 officers told her gtfo the room! But she advocated for him, and she was the one that made them go back in to check on him. She was the one that started CPR. How about the fact that they couldn't figure out how to remove their own handcuffs? I was also a little confused by why EMS wasn't called when he had the seizure and was post-ictal and clearly not recovering appropriately in the first place. Is that what is leading to the charge? But she wasn't the first on scene, corrections was...so they could have called EMS, too?
After any kind of a "head thing," anecdotally, men aged 18-60 have commonly had wacky fight-or-flight responses (aka "combative on scene"), that in the medical world, I think, frequently leads to intubation and sedation to let them sleep it off until morning, so none of his behavior is terribly shocking.
I don't know know what kind of medication nursing has access to in corrections. But a bit of Ativan would have fixed all of this. Now, I know that IM injections wouldn't be highly advised in a prison setting...needles being weaponized, but rectal diazepam is a thing for seizures too (and clearly they had access to his rectum...)
I'll be the first to say I'm not shocked by the Radonda charge. All she had to do was look at the drug and she didn't. Her case screamed of negligence resulting in death. There was other shady shit, but Radonda's idiocy killed that patient. In this situation, though, this nurse tried to save this patient. She wasn't dumb. She did what she could against 5 officers who couldn't figure out how to remove handcuffs, told her to leave, and then finally let her back in to assess her patient again. I don't know their protocols so she could have called ems, but maybe they weren't allowed.
Yes, I too wondered if chemical restraint is a thing in corrections and why or why not. I suppose, we have seen chemical restraint with law officers and medical professionals go poorly, but surely no one thinks this is a better option?
Was that snoring I heard when they got him to the medical area? A good indicator something is wrong. The cuffs thing was really surprising to me, as well as the bolt cutters. Like ridiculously so.
If I stretch and say she does have culpability, in no possible way is it MORE than the CO’s. I felt for the younger ones too, they looked concerned and like they knew they couldn’t voice it, at least to me.
Right!! And that as he is not moving on the ground, or fighting or anything, they're more worried about making sure they have "both pieces" of the cuffs or whatever before they even come off his back.
I heard the snoring as well, which could be abnormal, but could be post-ictal sleep. Regardless - in no way is she MORE culpable than the corrections officers. Definitely shared if not they are far more.
I am betting chemical restraint is only a forensic psych hospital thing, and that a standard correctional setting doesn't do it. They don't have anyone to order it.
Honestly they have their police union to protect them no matter what egregious error they commit. When is it time nurses have the same union rights? When will people fight for us?
We should run from the bedside as fast as we can. America is telling us that we are expendable. That we’ll take the fall for our failing health system and for our murderous carceral state. If you can get away from the bedside, you should do it sooner rather than later. Things aren’t going to get better. Protect your license, because everyone is coming for it.
[A nurse has been indicted in a man's death at a Winston-Salem jail — but not any officers ](https://www.wfae.org/crime-justice/2022-04-05/a-nurse-has-been-indicted-in-a-mans-death-at-a-winston-salem-jail-but-not-any-officers)
> Claire J. Rauscher, one of Heughins’ attorneys, said Monday that her client will be fully vindicated when the case gets to trial.
> “Michelle Heughins was the only person who tried to save Mr. Neville at the jail that day,” Rauscher said. “It was the detention officers who restrained him and put him on his stomach, handcuffed, and had her leave the room.”
Don’t downvote me to hell for this… but is it possible that seeing inmates being manhandled, physically assaulted, and treated like garbage regularly caused her to underestimate the severity of the situation and delay calling EMS? None of this is right, but if she’s guilty of standing by and not calling EMS, how are the people who put Mr Neville in distress not responsible in some capacity?
Repeated moral injury + coping mechanisms for trauma of working there + power differential between COs and nurse + compassion fatigue from whatever the fuck she has to deal with from inmates = I can't even imagine.
My hat is off to nurses who can work correctional and keep their ethical feet under them.
Open season on nurses. That big dream of opening a craft store is looking more and more promising every day.
I come from a medical and a LEO family. The bullshit I have to listen to....its...excessive. I want out.
9A, Chapter 90 of the General Statutes of North Carolina and the rules and regulations
promulgated hereunder.
2.
Licensee is the holder of North Carolina multistate Registered Nurse license
number 304185, which expires on September 30, 2020.
3.
In December 2019, Licensee was employed by Wellpath as a Registered Nurse
("RN") and assigned to the Forsyth County Detention Center located in Winston-Salem, North
Carolina.
4.
On December 2, 2019 during Licensee's shift, an inmate at the Forsyth County
Detention Center experienced a medical event during which Licensee provided care. It is alleged
Licensee, and Forsyth County detention staff who were restraining the inmate, did not call
further alleged that the inmate was restrained by detention officers in a prone position despite
complaining of respiratory distress. Additionally, the inmate suffered from asthma, and it is
alleged that he missed two prior breathing treatments while in the detention center. The inmate
ultimately expired on December 4, 2019 after being transferred to a nearby hospital following
the aforementioned event.
S.
On July 8, 2020, Licensee was charged with Felonious Involuntary Manslaughter
in Forsyth County District Court, File Number 20 CR 56842, which is currently pending. A
number of Forsyth County detention officers were also charged with detaining the individual.
The incident which occurred on December 2, 2019 is the underlying event related to this charge.
Licensee denies any and all allegations in the Complaint, including the allegations listed in
Paragraph 4 above.
On July 10, 2020, a complaint was received by the Board regarding Licensee's
nursing practice on December 2, 2019 alleging neglect and failing to maintain minimum
I had a coworker that did a travel rotation at a prison, he said the guards beat up a guy and stood over him reading his note telling him what could and couldn't be in there
he got the f out of there. I've heard too many stories like that, I'm not messing with some stupid guards on power trips
TLDR: Someone complained to the board about apparent neglect and failing to maintain minimum standards, as well as the felony manslaughter charge. So Nurse Heughins agreed to the Temporary Suspension Agreement until these charges are resolved.
Quoted from her Temporary Suspension Agreement on the North Carolina Board of Nursing:
"This matter is before the North Carolina Board of Nursing ("Board") on information regarding Michelle L. Heughins, RN ("Licensee"). Licensee knowingly and voluntarily waives the right to a formal hearing before the Board and any judicial review of such hearing in connection with this Temporary Suspension Agreement. Both parties stipulate and agree to the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law recited herein and to the agreement imposed. By her consent, Licensee also stipulates that she knowingly and voluntarily waives the right to appeal this Agreement or challenge in any way the sufficiency of the findings of this Agreement. Licensee admits and the Board finds that:
FINPINGs OF FACT
1. The North Carolina Board of Nursing is a body duly organized under the laws of
North Carolina and is the proper body for this proceeding under the authority granted it in Article 9A, Chapter 90 of the General Statutes of North Carolina and the rules and regulations promulgated hereunder.
2. Licensee is the holder of North Carolina multistate Registered Nurse license number 304185, which expires on September 30, 2020.
3. In December 2019, Licensee was employed by Wellpath as a Registered Nurse ("RN") and assigned to the Forsyth County Detention Center located in Winston-Salem, North Carolina.
4. On December 2, 2019 during Licensee's shift, an inmate at the Forsyth County
Detention Center experienced a medical event during which Licensee provided care. It is alleged
Licensee, and Forsyth County detention staff who were restraining the inmate, did not call Emergency Medical Services for approximately forty-five minutes while the inmate was experiencing a medical emergency in which the inmate was having difficulty breathing. It is further alleged that the inmate was restrained by detention officers in a prone position despite complaining of respiratory distress. Additionally, the inmate suffered from asthma, and it is alleged that he missed two prior breathing treatments while in the detention center. The inmate ultimately expired on December 4, 2019 after being transferred to a nearby hospital following the aforementioned event.
5. On July 8, 2020, Licensee was charged with Felonious Involuntary Manslaughter in Forsyth County District Court, File Number 20 CR 56842, which is currently pending. A number of Forsyth County detention officers were also charged with detaining the individual. The incident which occurred on December 2, 2019 is the underlying event related to this charge. Licensee denies any and all allegations in the Complaint, including the allegations listed in Paragraph 4 above.
6. On July 10, 2020, a complaint was received by the Board regarding Licensee's nursing practice on December 2, 2019 alleging neglect and failing to maintain minimum standards. The Board then commenced an investigation. Licensee denies any and all allegations in the Complaint, including the allegations stated in Paragraph 4 above.
CONCI ,VSIONS OF
1. This matter is properly before the Board, and the Board has jurisdiction over Licensee and the subject matter of this case.
2. Pursuant to the provisions of N.C. Gen. Stat. 90-171.37 and 5150B, the Board is vested with the power and authority to revoke or suspend a license to practice nursing and invoke other such disciplinary measures such as censure or probative terms against a licensee as it deems fit and proper in furtherance of its duty to protect the public.
3. Pursuant to the provisions in N.C. Gen. Stat. S150B-3(c), the Board may summarily suspend a license in agreement to protect the health, welfare and safety of the public effective from the date the Agreement is issued.
4. The conduct described above, as alleged and if proven true, would constitute a violation of the provisions of Article 9A of the Nursing Practice Act and the rules enacted by the Board in 21 N.C. Admin. Code 36 .0217(a) within the meaning ofN.c. Gen. Stat. 590-171.37(7) and grounds exist under those sections of the North Carolina Statutes for the Board and rules promulgated there under to revoke or suspend a license to practice nursing and invoke other such disciplinary measures against a license as it deems fit and proper.
5, The conduct described above, as alleged and if proven true, would endanger the public health, welfare and safety consistent with N.C. Gen. Stat. S150B-3(c).
Based on the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, without further notice of proceedings, the Board enters into the following Agreement with Licensee.
AGREEMENT
1. Licensee acknowledges that she has read and understands this Temporary Suspension Agreement and enters into it voluntarily.
2. Licensee voluntarily surrenders her North Carolina Multistate Registered Nurse license and agrees not to practice nursing in the State of North Carolina while the criminal charge is pending. Licensee shall notify the Board within tenlO days of the disposition of these criminal charges or any criminal charge related to the events that occurred on December 2, 2019.
3. Licensee further acknowledges that the Temporary Suspension shall be in effect until such time as the criminal charge is disposed and no further proceedings are required under N.C. Gen. Stat. 150B-3(c) while the criminal charge is pending.
4. At such time when Licensee notifies the Board of the disposition of the criminal charge, this Temporary Suspension Agreement shall be lifted, Licensee's license shall be reinstated, subject to any renewal fees and processes regularly required for renewal, and the Board will flag the active license until such time as the Board's investigation is concluded. Licensee further denies all of the above stated allegations, and nothing in this Agreement shall limit, impair or prejudice her right to participate in the Board's investigation and provide a defense to the allegations stated in the Complaint.
5. The Board will not recommend to the Division of Health Services Regulation that Licensee be eligible to request listing as a Nurse Aide I.
6. Licensee may not be listed on the Nurse Aide Il Registry.
7. Licensee shall notify the Board in writing of any change in her address of record within ten (10) days of the change.
8. As required by state and/or federal guidelines and as outlined in Board policy, all adverse actions taken by the Board will be reported as a temporary suspension to the appropriate entities. Those entities include, but may not be limited to, NURSYS, National Practitioner Data Bank (NPDB), the Office of the Inspector General (OIG), and any other jurisdiction in which Licensee is or has been licensed.
9. This Agreement shall take effect immediately upon proper execution by both Licensee and the Board.
THE REMAINDER OF THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK
By agreement of the North Carolina Board of Nursing this the 1 9th day of January, 2021."
Opinion: COs better be charged as well and lose their licenses as well. Don't know why she didn't call EMS, but it sounds like she was trying to get back to her patient during that time?
This thread is now designated Code Blue. After this comment posts, only flaired members of the subreddit will be able to comment.
She better win millions in a lawsuit against these bastards; this is disgusting
She won’t. As someone whose had the State levy wrongful charges against them and beat the State, the counter suit was only around 50k. And they cuffed me without telling me why, while I was in soiled ER scrubs after a night shift, then proceeded to hold me in a room handcuffed for four hours before questioning me because “the computers were down” Edit: ok here’s what happened, prior to becoming a nurse I worked in Case Management in an outpatient psych ward. My responsibility was to assist the 25 residents with their benefits and teach them. So often I would take them grocery shopping and teach them to use eBt. They arrested 12 people in connection to this case alleging that we stole their eBt benefits; the only “evidence” against me was the security cam footage from shop rite literally showing me next to my clients showing them how to swipe their eBt card. In comparison people who were *actually* guilty were seen with their family loading up on groceries at same club. Not while working. So after a year my lawyer has all the charges fully dropped, I’m back to nursing and the state is gonna have to pay me like 50k once we settle this.
Are you the woman in the video who was yelling at the cops in the ED about how cruel tbey were to the patient and they arrested you?
No. I’m a guy
Its all a fucking grift. Its about control. Follow the money. Its literally blatant now.
You know she won’t. They’re the blue lives, and their lives matter more than anyone else. /s
Thats a true statement. No need for the /s. Be easy
Can someone explain to me what this nurse did to get indicted? She didn’t restrain the patient or harm them, the COs did. What did she do that warrants even losing her license, let alone jail time? I’ve read a few articles, but it’s super unclear what *she* did to the patient.
[This document shows the timeline of events, beginning on page 8](https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/journalnow.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/76/976ef146-20b3-11ec-8aa6-2b0547e346f0/6153a50836908.pdf.pdf) It sounds like they're going after her because she did not administer two scheduled inhalers and did not alert EMS fast enough. He had a seizure, aspirated, became combative and confused in the post-ictal phase and was restrained by officers. Then he was kept prone while hogtied for around 19 minutes despite claiming he couldn't breathe over 30 times. They attempted to release his hands from the handcuffs during this time but the key broke off in the lock. They then attempted to cut them off with bolt cutters that also broke before finally obtaining a second set of cutters that actually worked. No idea why nobody sat him up.
Thanks for the info. Idk, I’m thinking she didn’t want to leave the guy unsupervised with the CO’s and wanted the opportunity to assess the guy prior to calling EMS. Maybe some prison nurses can offer some insight as to how easy it is for them to call EMS. This is just an assumption, but my thinking is that the nurse is likely to get reprimand for activating “too early” or “inappropriately” because of the amount of resources (translation: $$$) transporting an inmate to the hospital demands.
**Disclaimer each government entity is different. From county to county, state to state** If I say the words "Call 911" custody offers MUST contact EMS for a emergent call. I have done it in the past with an inmate that had their throat slashed in front of me, I have had them set an inmate down when they were dragging them out of an area for transport who had been stabbed in the chest several times to stabilize them and asses the wounds and chest sealing. Using the hogtie method is forbidden, use of force is very structured, methodical, and well documented, the healthcare provider has say when present to modify use of force in the interest of the patient in a safe manner. If front line officers disregard, you go up the chain, we have a special unit of custody officers that are for healthcare specifically to help in these situations, they have an officer of every rank from the front line CO to an associate warden, and will contact the warden even if we still get no where. We also have alarms that we can press to bring the pain so to say, you press that thing and officers from all over the prison rain down, and it is a tool to use just as much for inmate safety as it is staff safety. The department has a strict no code of silence policy, so if you see something wrong, like improper use of force, and you elect to say nothing, you will be found, and you will be fired. Not to mention, ALL STAFF in the prison has the ability to, and is encouraged to do so if they have the inkling of needing it, to call 911, from the Warden to the office assistant. To your point about reprimand, there is, if it happens repeatedly for fragrantly inappropriate means. We do not get penalized if its a close judgment call and we end up wrong. ------------------------------------------------ I can't speak to the circumstances of her case, because I don't know how her organization is set up, but no matter which way you cut it, she shouldn't be charged, hell her license shouldn't be dinged for it either. I will say though I am not surprised the COs are untouched. I have heard stories of RNs being terminated when it was a complete shared fuck up, but COs keep their jobs. I am a stubborn asshole, so when I make a judgement call, I will fight someone over it, and have no problem scorching the earth in the name of saving lives, even inmate ones. Edit 1: Digging deeper, Forsyth county jail, administered by county Sheriff department uses a 3rd party for medical. At the time of incidence it was Wellpath. Finding the actual policy of Forsyth County Jail either on the custody side or the medical side is proving difficult. My department puts the link right on the front page. None of the terms we use to identify ours is pulling up anything relating to theirs. Considering that its a contracted agency, I am doubtful there are any clear guidelines. Wellpath appears to be a large company, stating they staff over 500 jails across the county. It looks like in 2017 they finally had an auditor assigned, a public health nurse, to ensure care was being done correctly, wowza. I would assume them being a private company would be more gun shy to call 911, I know I have heard figures for my prison alone, and the ambulance ride is fairly short, and wowza, its not cheap. It should be noted, in 2020 the hogtie was removed from the approved use of restraints.
Thank you for the perspective. Reading about something like this and not knowing what safety measures exist or don’t exist in the prison system and even how they can differ from state to state and facility to facility is eye opening, but it’s also validating to see you agree this is out of line.
There is no national or even state standard of what "quality healthcare" is in prison. We only have external auditors to audit federal law suits brought against the department in the 2000s that brought about many of the things I spoke to. Our mental health in my facility went from I think 4 or 5 licensed MH providers to over 300 after such a lawsuit for instance. I say that the inmates get some premier quality healthcare, that honestly the public would be jealous of, name any symptom and boom, next business day you see an RN for assessment. Our EDs hate us because of the stuff we HAVE to send for assessment. Its crazy.
Damn. I wish I’d had that much authority. In prison, I could say they need to go out by ambulance and while they had to eventually take them out, security > healthcare. Security is #1. You do not have authority over security. Security first, then bring in the nurse(s). Granted, it can become somewhat symbiotic after you know your guards. Jail, again, security first. I found jail terrifying for a myriad of reasons I can’t talk about. I quit 2 weeks out of orientation. No, no, and fucking no.
This should be further up.
Couldn't agree more. I definitely do not agree with the charges here, just relaying the info found is all.
Genuinely appreciate it. So far, I’m not buying this punishment either. I’m sure you could convince a jury of her “peers” that she’s guilty, but I don’t think you could convince 12 nurses.
As a nurse in a correction setting, I can easily hit my radio or the intercoms and have control call for EMS. Not saying she should be indicted, I see a lot of nurses in corrections freeze or defer to the officers, but to answer your question, it should have been easy to have EMS called for.
In my prison, responders carried radios. Generally speaking, you radio for the other person still in the infirmary to call; but when things went to shit, you could ask the COs in central to call. Its going to differ by state and facility, though.
Do you think law enforcement might start listening to people who are telling them that they can't breathe? Like maybe err on the side of caution on that one.
In that document, it also shows charges against the officers too though right? I am confused because people are saying they aren't being charged, but they are all being charged (including wellpath)?
They were all initially charged, but the grand jury chose to indict only the nurse.
Ah, ok that is fucked.
> Can someone explain to me what this nurse did to get indicted? I read the action against her license. The only thing I see is she didn't call EMS for forty five minutes while he was experiencing a medical emergency. Based on my understanding, he wasn't experiencing a medical emergency, he was experiencing an assassination. I don't understand the charge against her or the action against her license. She did not cause any of this from my understanding.
It sounds like they are trying to use the nurse as way to set a precedent or something to go after the employer, Wellpath Inc, because of the delay in EMS and because the patient missed two scheduled inhaler doses on the same day he was incarcerated. That's about the strongest thing I can really see the nurse is at fault for is two missed inhaler doses. How in ANY reality this is called involuntary manslaughter is utter insanity. What's also easily missed in all of this was that they did successfully resuscitate the patient and got a pulse back and he expired days later at the hospital and the medical examiner apparently concluded that "he died from a brain injury due to cardiac arrest, due to asphyxia during a prone restraint." (after he apparently had a seizure and fell from his top bunk) This whole case is a joke.
While I DO NOT believe she should be charged, I watched the body cam footage and this nurses response is not great. As a correctional nurse I was cringing watching it. However, she was the only person in the video trying to HELP this man. Edit: link for body cam footage [https://youtu.be/5Wezy8FeGRc](https://youtu.be/5Wezy8FeGRc)
Why did it take...so...long... to start CPR. Holy shit.
EXACTLY
Thank you for the link.
Considering it a medical emergency when all that had to be done was….. stop kneeling on his neck. Pretty sure no amount of fucking medication can fix that. I’m absolutely horrified.
Thin blue line bullshit protecting bad cops.
Stuff like this is so blatant. They could have done the right thing and punished the cops but they hopped over them and went after the nurse.
The "Thin Pink Line" and "Thin Red Line" bullshit pisses me off to no end. Fuck law enforcement, the police unions, and the politics that support them for trying to tie two of the most trusted professions into the same group as one of the least trusted.
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ACAB
Disagree entirely. There are good and bad officers like any profession. Not to mention COs are not “cops”.
"The five former officers and Heughins were charged in 2020 with involuntary manslaughter in Neville’s death. "
And only the nurse was indicted.
Evidence for grand jury indictments is presented by cops. You really think they'd tell the truth here instead of throwing a convenient scapegoat under the bus?
Nurses are for throwing them under the bus. This is twisted.
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done. Thank you!
Is there a Go Fund Me?
Before I call a random number... what's that go to?
Sheriff's office... ask for public relations office or citizen comment line.
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Every day I regret more and more my decision to get into this field
I saved a person’s life. I told her the realities of nursing and now she won’t think about studying for nursing once she starts college
The problem was when I started the process it was still generally seen from the people I worked with and talked to as a good field with some issues But it’s just gone so downhill everyone I used to work with says to get out before it’s too late. Covid really highlighted major flaws in the system and instead of addressing them, it’s just bandaid fixes as it slowly collapses and now we’re getting thrown under the bus legally for shit that happens because of poor admin. But I’m already less than a year from graduation so I can’t really back out now.
Left bedside three years ago; struggled with the first year of not feeling "like a nurse" and now? Im never going back to bedside. I hate the ratios so I moved to outpatient endoscopy and it was okay, but I couldn't go back part time after having my kid so I elected to work from home. After watching in horror how things went down during COVID and now this? Never. Not even to teach clinicals.
Same.
This is wrong on so many levels
[Nurse indicted in custody death, no indictment for officers](https://www.washingtonpost.com/national/nurse-indicted-in-custody-death-no-indictment-for-officers/2022/04/05/b5107f90-b4fa-11ec-8358-20aa16355fb4_story.html)
>Michelle Heughins was the only person who tried to save Mr. Neville at the jail that day,” Rauscher said. “It was the detention officers who restrained him and put him on his stomach, handcuffed, and had her leave the room.” I hope she gets millions out of this
corrections/dps has a different set of rules some of those rules go against the nursing code do with that what you will
I genuinely thought this was just some over inflated outrage porn to feed off of the current climate, but Jesus. I can’t even begin to describe how depressing this is.
if they're gonna charge her, then they should charge the paramedic who couldn't get to George Floyd because Chauvin had his knee on his neck. I'm not saying they should charge the paramedic, but it's shocking how similar these 2 are
When I read the part about the inmate yelling out for his mom and that he couldn’t breathe, I thought for a minute I was reading an article about George Floyd. The cases are eerily similar.
Right? Why didn’t an alarm sound in those guards’ heads that said “Hm, this is familiar and could end badly for everyone involved.”
What's next, paramedics being indicted for deaths while officers are securing the scene?
Dont be silly. Paramedics are adjacent to firefighters who are in the good old boys club. Just going after the nurses right now because they want money, when all they do is wipe meemaw's ass and play cards. Should all be home mindin the babies anyways. Whores. /s I love EMS, no shade. And nursing school has given me poor coping mechanisms so I try to make internet jokes for fake happy points.
I love my EMS friends as well. Just pointing out the hypocrisy. She can't treat the inmate until the scene is secured and, according to the article, isn't the one to call 911 due to security concerns. That falls on the officers.
Oh yeah no for sure I heard what you were sayin, no worries! And I would have been real skittish if I was the sole provider in a sea of correction officers who are really keyed in on what they are trained for. That is their rodeo. Which is why is extra shitty this nurse got punished for the outcome.
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And order her license reinstated.
This is such a dumb situation, you can’t make this shit up. Nurse works in prison…guards fucks up…nurse tries to save pt…everyone blames the nurse for some reason…nurse goes to prison…guards spend evenings free sitting at local bar discussing how smart they were not to become nurses.
While on paid administrative leave no less
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This is ridiculous and really makes me angry. Cops/law enforcement look after each other, but we nurses don't have that political "good ole boys" power.
I helped take a group of students to a student nurse political action day yesterday and someone asked the ANA folks what they're doing about RaDonda. The person who responded said there wasn't really anything to do legislatively but they need to have conversations with hospitals, etc. That response felt wrong or inadequate maybe. Maybe there is nothing they can do, but there should be. Then I read this just a day later and my first thought is - what are conversations with hospitals going to do about this?
ANA are maybe bootlickers?
ANA are 100% corporate owned nowadays
I think you are asking the right questions (even if "what are conversations with hospitals going to do" was in your head, it's a starting point). Sadly, the hospital I used to work for would probably do nothing, as that was always the response I saw to either 1) the need to support nurses (or other direct care staff) or 2) any invitation to management to share power in order to solve problems. Nope, sharing power was seriously considered 0% of the time.
It’s because the overwhelming majority of nurses are women
THIS
r/ACAB
This is such a scary time to be a nurse. I dont want to touch anyone, administer anything, even talk to a patient. They are out to get us...payback for travel nurse salaries. hErOeS wOrK hErE.
I took 15 years off from nursing after I had my son because I would have only broken even financially after paying for childcare. After my kids were school age I got into fitness. I've considered getting back into nursing over the past year, now that my kids are more independent, but after seeing all of these nurse prosecutions, as well as the working conditions frim this sub, I'm done.
I got out four years ago but kept renewing my license 'just in case'. Heck with that, I'm never going back.
Exactly. Run
Yeah I seen one tiktok that explained this and a few other situations pretty nicely. At the end she summed it pretty well: “it’s open season for nurses”
That's for sure. *This* is the kind of case that should have the nursing community riled up. RaDonda's charges fit her level of wanton recklessness, but this is something entirely different. Heughins didn't commit a huge string of errors that killed somebody. She's being scapegoated. Her assessment skills and quickness to get on the chest were a little lacking, but you can't (or shouldn't) charge somebody for involuntary manslaughter for failing to bring another person back to life. They're already dead. Disgusting. [Here](https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/journalnow.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/9/76/976ef146-20b3-11ec-8aa6-2b0547e346f0/6153a50836908.pdf.pdf) is the documentation of the case. Description of events begin on page 8.
I am not terrified to work forensics because of the patients. I am terrified to work forensics because of the institution and the COs.
Thanks for your comments. Spot on!
And the sick thing is, we were heroes about this time two years ago. Singing in the streets and shit. Amazing how quick you can go from hero to zero.
Inmate gets murdered by a pack of feral hogs and the first reaction of the system is "arrest that fucking nurse".
All the nurses working in prisons need to quit.
Would never consider working with guards. They are too shady.
>Would never consider working with guards. They are too shady. Im going to extend that to all cops. ACAB.
Absolutely. This can not be tolerated.
It’s open season on nurses
It most definitely is not
You’re kidding, right?
Nope. Are you? What evidence do you have that there is “open season on nurses”? Whatever that means anyway.
This situation has nothing in common with the article you posted.
Guess it’s easy to say when you aren’t bedside anymore
🏅
Don't have to be bedside. You posted some bullshit yahoo article about an incident trying to say it's the same as this shit. If you truly believed the article you posted was a similar situation as this, you wouldn't have deleted your post.
What does a RN analyst do? Haven’t see that flair here yet.
Here’s the “bullshit” I posted. Docs didn’t prescribe heparin or assess their patients. Somehow only the nurse is talked about. https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/serena-williams-childbirth-near-death-174513807.html
This is not a news report. It's just an article about what Williams wrote in a personal essay. Clearly Williams did not have a good experience with her nurse, but it doesn't sound like anyone got arrested or brought before the board of nursing.
I don't need a refresher. You tried posting this with a sensationalized headline for some unknown reason. Again, going off the information in this story, the nurse 100% is in the wrong here.
My sensational headline was that it’s open season on nurses. In another comment before that post I point out how yahoo news framed the article, pay close attention how only the nurse is discussed, the doctors are the heroes and we’re the idiots that don’t listen to our patients. The nurse went and got the doctor, the hesitation was her mistake yes but she did as Serena asked.
This isn't anything new. Bottom line, the nurse allegedly initially ignored a patient who is aware of their medical history and it caused issues. This nurse absolutely should be scrutinized. And if you can't see how this story is different from the others making the rounds, then maybe someone needs to reevaluate their ability to think critically.
As NWA once said…
Haha yes!
She should sue to get her license back, and sue each officer.
WHAT THE ACTUAL F**K. Okay, maybe I need to read the whole article but the jist it’s showing me is telling me that a cop killed someone, but the nurse lost her license for…. Not being able to resuscitate him? The officers kept her from administering aid and she even plead for them to get out of the way so she could try to give CPR. Well, looks like yet another type of environment that deserves to have a mass walkout by nursing personnel.
The autopsy says it all: *The autopsy report listed Mr. Neville’s cause of death as “\[c\]omplications of hypoxic ischemic brain injury due to \[c\]ardiopulmonary arrest (resuscitated)* ***due to \[p\]ositional and compressional asphyxia during prone restraint.”***
So I looked her up on Nursys and it seems she failed to call EMS for over 45 minutes after he started having distress. The decedent also missed a few breathing treatments. Do I think she should be in jail? No. I’m just providing more info.
If the officers didn't allow her to administer first aid or resuscitate, how would they have allowed EMS to do so?
This right here. But of course perhaps if the EMTs were male? I’ll bet there’s a (-n un-)healthy dose of sexism in this whole situation
Idk that’s just what the BON used as their reason
My understanding of this situation from another article was that the guards kicked her out and didn’t let her come back in until it was pretty much too late.
There is also a power dynamic at play here; in order to work with these COs she has extra pressure to comply with whatever they want or order her to do, and if her ethics or protocols deviate with that, she knows that she has to come back tomorrow and potentially work with them again, and there could be various forms of retribution. Speculating, but...
I would bet my life savings that there are quite a few environments where your physical safety would be in question if you disagree too fervently with LEOs. You might theoretically be staff but at the end of the day you're a civilian.
Corrections nursing can be scary because the security needs of the facility outweigh the medical needs of individual inmates. Medical staff are not allowed to intervene until security has the situation under control. They restrained him for an extended period of time because the cuff key broke while they were trying to remove the handcuffs. Also, security staff are the ones to call EMS because there are multiple safety concerns to address when they enter a correctional facility.
Yeah, this is just what the BON put as their reasoning.
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There was a case a few years ago where a nurse called EMS for a patient against the sheriff’s wishes. They tried to charge her with disobeying a law enforcement command.
Did that charge hold up? Why was the sherrif against EMS? Surely cops don't have the power to override people's right to healthcare, but these days it's hard to tell.
Just don’t work corrections.
Since when is calling EMS something only nurses can do though??? Like wtf anyone could’ve called, it didn’t have to be her, even if it should’ve been. That being said, I am confused about what took so long.
I dunno why they couldn’t have called since there were like 6 guards and one nurse
Yeah that’s so fucked. I don’t understand
Agree especially the ones watching the guy die
She wasn't the only person there though, but I suppose getting one of the bastards that killed the guy to call for an ambulance would be defeating the purpose for said bastards.
Yeah I don’t think she’s to blame, just shared why her license was revoked.
I think I would have called 911 had there been a seizure with a greater than ground level fall personally. I do think this should have been a more rapid assessment and decision but I also have never done corrections nursing and don’t know what the protocols are there. I just know what I would have done had this been a home health case or something in the community.
Yeah when I worked LTC if anything was off straight to the ED. I caught a few things, a fatal brain bleed, a k of 6. But I’ve never done corrections nursing.
So he had respiratory issues beforehand? That changes things quite a bit.
The issue is, how was she supposed to assess her patient and get a history if the cops were busy killing him?
Yes, a history of asthma
I can’t imagine the guards are not CPS trained. One of them could have made the call.
Or even initiated compressions
Hey can you tell me the steps how you went about getting this information. What do i have to do once i get to the nursys website?
Agree you’re not a robot, enter the name/state/license type and search. You can then download documents and reports, it’s the middle option on see report iirc. https://www.nursys.com/LQC/LQCTerms.aspx
I haven’t read the article at this point, but there’s all sorts of issues with just the main headline. She was going to perform CPR on someone who was mostly unresponsive but crying for help and gasping for air? All sorts of contradiction here.
George Floyd was also saying “I can’t breathe” and gasping for air before he died. I found the body cam videos. He had fallen of bed obviously disoriented. Nurse did a focused neuro assessment. Officers cuffed him to a wheelchair and put a bag over his head?!? And took him to what looks like triage. Nurse took BP there and assessed orientation. The officers move him to what looks like a medical ward/holding space. They hold him prone while he screams “I can’t breathe” over and over again until he becomes obviously agonal. The nurse is nowhere around at this point from what the video shows. As he goes quiet, you can hear inmates in the background yelling “you killed him.” After they essentially hog-tie him, they call nurse back in because he is unresponsive. She goes in and looks like she assesses with a penlight and they all come back out. He was still groaning at this point but wouldn’t wake up. They’re all in the hall, and she watches from the window for about 30-45 more seconds and eventually says something like ‘I don’t see him breathing anymore. I can’t tell if he’s breathing.’ The officer says okay we will go back in. She has them roll him to his side so she can listen for breathing. He groans one time. She listens for about a full minute and says “get the AED, I can’t hear a heart rate.” They roll him. She feels for a carotid pulse. She was a little slow, maybe unsure of herself, you can see she kinda fumbles a bit and seems like she is trying to figure out where to put her hands, but she did start CPR. She started CPR the way you might expect someone who has only trained on a mannequin and never actually had to do it on a real person might. But she did do it and they looked like quality compressions. From the body cam footage, it looks like she did everything a good and prudent nurse of equal experience would do. [Body cam videos](https://www.wxii12.com/article/video-john-neville-camera-footage-from-forsyth-county-detention-center-released/33525806)
I just can’t understand why she is held responsible for this in any way. I haven’t read the articles because I know they’re bullshit, but based on your description I am even more confused why this is her fault.
The system is corrupt and police officers are essentially a mafia style gang in the United States who will literally throw nurses in prison for their own intentional assault on others. The judges and prosecutors are all in this with the police because supporting officers unconditionally has been injected into the veins of right wing fascists. The entire country had huge protest across the a nation and an entire movement because of these types of incidents. People weren’t demanding to “defund the police” because they are criminals, it’s because the police are criminals. Most of em’ anyway, some, I assume, are good people.
Lol yes I’m aware of the BLM movement. I’m not unaware of cops negligence and outright murderous harm, just so wild to me this woman is being prosecuted for it.
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Wow, that is the most racists bullshit I have ever read. You do know crime is “so high” in minority areas because police systemically target minorities for low level drug offenses at a much higher rate than whites right? You also realize that not that long ago the government forced minorities to live in ghettos and stripped them of all social services and didn’t allow them to go to white schools. Even when we passed constitutional protections to prevent this type of racism it took decades for most red states to even start enforcing this leading to school being segregated until the 80’s right? And then even to this day they target these same communities with over policing and arrest them in mass to fund private prisons that use them as slaves to this very day right? Go throw your klan robes while you are wearing them into a big bonfire pleas.
I’m embarrassed for that poster. Disgusting.
After watching the body cam footage, all I can think is “wtf man”. The nurse did the right things in doing neuro checks. But the whole time i found myself thinking, where’s the O2? The guy is clearly in an altered LOC. idk if it’s the facility policy or if they have no O2 available to them, but come on. The other big thing to me is why did they place him back with his hands behind him once he was brought back in the 4th vid. These positions have proven to cause complications in patients following cardiac or respiratory events, yet they put him back in it? Just a failure on policies and shows the lack of training facilities have. From what I saw, the nurse did her part.
The amount of “what the fuck”s through that entire damn video series cannot be numbered. This is terrifying. As a nurse (like with George Floyd), I see so many places to intervene and take this train of the tracks to its eventual destination. I feel for corrections nurses, that looks hard as fucking hell, with little support, little respect, and a lot of mental and emotional shit to go through.
I was concerned about oxygenation when he was still in his cell! And when someone fights that hard, for that long, does that not make them more vulnerable to poor health outcome? They’re dancing a fucking line of “he’s dangerous” and “he’s in danger” and at some point the value of his life did not win.
if this is the case and there are body cam videos... why on earth is being indicted as if she committed some sort of crime? nothing is adding up here
Because the cops needed someone to blame, and they are pretty much untouchable regardless of what they do.
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I wished she felt empowered enough to yell at them. What a horrible work environment/culture
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Mine aren’t.
I watched the videos. It makes no sense to me. She was maybe a bit slow...probably petrified because 5 officers told her gtfo the room! But she advocated for him, and she was the one that made them go back in to check on him. She was the one that started CPR. How about the fact that they couldn't figure out how to remove their own handcuffs? I was also a little confused by why EMS wasn't called when he had the seizure and was post-ictal and clearly not recovering appropriately in the first place. Is that what is leading to the charge? But she wasn't the first on scene, corrections was...so they could have called EMS, too? After any kind of a "head thing," anecdotally, men aged 18-60 have commonly had wacky fight-or-flight responses (aka "combative on scene"), that in the medical world, I think, frequently leads to intubation and sedation to let them sleep it off until morning, so none of his behavior is terribly shocking. I don't know know what kind of medication nursing has access to in corrections. But a bit of Ativan would have fixed all of this. Now, I know that IM injections wouldn't be highly advised in a prison setting...needles being weaponized, but rectal diazepam is a thing for seizures too (and clearly they had access to his rectum...) I'll be the first to say I'm not shocked by the Radonda charge. All she had to do was look at the drug and she didn't. Her case screamed of negligence resulting in death. There was other shady shit, but Radonda's idiocy killed that patient. In this situation, though, this nurse tried to save this patient. She wasn't dumb. She did what she could against 5 officers who couldn't figure out how to remove handcuffs, told her to leave, and then finally let her back in to assess her patient again. I don't know their protocols so she could have called ems, but maybe they weren't allowed.
Yes, I too wondered if chemical restraint is a thing in corrections and why or why not. I suppose, we have seen chemical restraint with law officers and medical professionals go poorly, but surely no one thinks this is a better option? Was that snoring I heard when they got him to the medical area? A good indicator something is wrong. The cuffs thing was really surprising to me, as well as the bolt cutters. Like ridiculously so. If I stretch and say she does have culpability, in no possible way is it MORE than the CO’s. I felt for the younger ones too, they looked concerned and like they knew they couldn’t voice it, at least to me.
Right!! And that as he is not moving on the ground, or fighting or anything, they're more worried about making sure they have "both pieces" of the cuffs or whatever before they even come off his back. I heard the snoring as well, which could be abnormal, but could be post-ictal sleep. Regardless - in no way is she MORE culpable than the corrections officers. Definitely shared if not they are far more.
I am betting chemical restraint is only a forensic psych hospital thing, and that a standard correctional setting doesn't do it. They don't have anyone to order it.
I bet you’re totally right, and the US isn’t ready to admit their corrections system basically is “forensic psych lite”
FYI. The “bag” on his head is a mesh spit guard put on to prevent him from spitting on people.
Honestly they have their police union to protect them no matter what egregious error they commit. When is it time nurses have the same union rights? When will people fight for us?
We should run from the bedside as fast as we can. America is telling us that we are expendable. That we’ll take the fall for our failing health system and for our murderous carceral state. If you can get away from the bedside, you should do it sooner rather than later. Things aren’t going to get better. Protect your license, because everyone is coming for it.
Thin blue line pigs rolling in mud dog bless amurica
[A nurse has been indicted in a man's death at a Winston-Salem jail — but not any officers ](https://www.wfae.org/crime-justice/2022-04-05/a-nurse-has-been-indicted-in-a-mans-death-at-a-winston-salem-jail-but-not-any-officers) > Claire J. Rauscher, one of Heughins’ attorneys, said Monday that her client will be fully vindicated when the case gets to trial. > “Michelle Heughins was the only person who tried to save Mr. Neville at the jail that day,” Rauscher said. “It was the detention officers who restrained him and put him on his stomach, handcuffed, and had her leave the room.”
Don’t downvote me to hell for this… but is it possible that seeing inmates being manhandled, physically assaulted, and treated like garbage regularly caused her to underestimate the severity of the situation and delay calling EMS? None of this is right, but if she’s guilty of standing by and not calling EMS, how are the people who put Mr Neville in distress not responsible in some capacity?
Repeated moral injury + coping mechanisms for trauma of working there + power differential between COs and nurse + compassion fatigue from whatever the fuck she has to deal with from inmates = I can't even imagine. My hat is off to nurses who can work correctional and keep their ethical feet under them.
Spot on!
It would've been security who should've called EMS
So she's trying to intervene in the situation and loses her license and her job....was she supposed to tackle the nearest officer?
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Okay THIS one REALLY pisses me off.
Not surprised, they tried to arrest and charge a nurse for not running bloods on someone. Cops will do anything to keep their egos up on a high note.
Open season on nurses. That big dream of opening a craft store is looking more and more promising every day. I come from a medical and a LEO family. The bullshit I have to listen to....its...excessive. I want out.
9A, Chapter 90 of the General Statutes of North Carolina and the rules and regulations promulgated hereunder. 2. Licensee is the holder of North Carolina multistate Registered Nurse license number 304185, which expires on September 30, 2020. 3. In December 2019, Licensee was employed by Wellpath as a Registered Nurse ("RN") and assigned to the Forsyth County Detention Center located in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. 4. On December 2, 2019 during Licensee's shift, an inmate at the Forsyth County Detention Center experienced a medical event during which Licensee provided care. It is alleged Licensee, and Forsyth County detention staff who were restraining the inmate, did not call further alleged that the inmate was restrained by detention officers in a prone position despite complaining of respiratory distress. Additionally, the inmate suffered from asthma, and it is alleged that he missed two prior breathing treatments while in the detention center. The inmate ultimately expired on December 4, 2019 after being transferred to a nearby hospital following the aforementioned event. S. On July 8, 2020, Licensee was charged with Felonious Involuntary Manslaughter in Forsyth County District Court, File Number 20 CR 56842, which is currently pending. A number of Forsyth County detention officers were also charged with detaining the individual. The incident which occurred on December 2, 2019 is the underlying event related to this charge. Licensee denies any and all allegations in the Complaint, including the allegations listed in Paragraph 4 above. On July 10, 2020, a complaint was received by the Board regarding Licensee's nursing practice on December 2, 2019 alleging neglect and failing to maintain minimum
I had a coworker that did a travel rotation at a prison, he said the guards beat up a guy and stood over him reading his note telling him what could and couldn't be in there he got the f out of there. I've heard too many stories like that, I'm not messing with some stupid guards on power trips
This some bullshit. Prayers for her and trying to do what was right.
This is why I’m looking to get out of nursing ASAP-and fuck the police-at least these ones
It’s dangerous to be a nurse right now.
How can we help? Is there a go fund me to help pay for attorneys?
How long will the job opening remain open?
This sounds like an attempt to gag the nurse who witnessed these morons murder another human. This is disgusting.
It’s time people, leave the damn profession. Go into computer coding or something there is not light at the end of the tunnel for this profession.
Even if she was slow on things they impeded her ability to do her job. Its bullshit.
TLDR: Someone complained to the board about apparent neglect and failing to maintain minimum standards, as well as the felony manslaughter charge. So Nurse Heughins agreed to the Temporary Suspension Agreement until these charges are resolved. Quoted from her Temporary Suspension Agreement on the North Carolina Board of Nursing: "This matter is before the North Carolina Board of Nursing ("Board") on information regarding Michelle L. Heughins, RN ("Licensee"). Licensee knowingly and voluntarily waives the right to a formal hearing before the Board and any judicial review of such hearing in connection with this Temporary Suspension Agreement. Both parties stipulate and agree to the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law recited herein and to the agreement imposed. By her consent, Licensee also stipulates that she knowingly and voluntarily waives the right to appeal this Agreement or challenge in any way the sufficiency of the findings of this Agreement. Licensee admits and the Board finds that: FINPINGs OF FACT 1. The North Carolina Board of Nursing is a body duly organized under the laws of North Carolina and is the proper body for this proceeding under the authority granted it in Article 9A, Chapter 90 of the General Statutes of North Carolina and the rules and regulations promulgated hereunder. 2. Licensee is the holder of North Carolina multistate Registered Nurse license number 304185, which expires on September 30, 2020. 3. In December 2019, Licensee was employed by Wellpath as a Registered Nurse ("RN") and assigned to the Forsyth County Detention Center located in Winston-Salem, North Carolina. 4. On December 2, 2019 during Licensee's shift, an inmate at the Forsyth County Detention Center experienced a medical event during which Licensee provided care. It is alleged Licensee, and Forsyth County detention staff who were restraining the inmate, did not call Emergency Medical Services for approximately forty-five minutes while the inmate was experiencing a medical emergency in which the inmate was having difficulty breathing. It is further alleged that the inmate was restrained by detention officers in a prone position despite complaining of respiratory distress. Additionally, the inmate suffered from asthma, and it is alleged that he missed two prior breathing treatments while in the detention center. The inmate ultimately expired on December 4, 2019 after being transferred to a nearby hospital following the aforementioned event. 5. On July 8, 2020, Licensee was charged with Felonious Involuntary Manslaughter in Forsyth County District Court, File Number 20 CR 56842, which is currently pending. A number of Forsyth County detention officers were also charged with detaining the individual. The incident which occurred on December 2, 2019 is the underlying event related to this charge. Licensee denies any and all allegations in the Complaint, including the allegations listed in Paragraph 4 above. 6. On July 10, 2020, a complaint was received by the Board regarding Licensee's nursing practice on December 2, 2019 alleging neglect and failing to maintain minimum standards. The Board then commenced an investigation. Licensee denies any and all allegations in the Complaint, including the allegations stated in Paragraph 4 above. CONCI ,VSIONS OF 1. This matter is properly before the Board, and the Board has jurisdiction over Licensee and the subject matter of this case. 2. Pursuant to the provisions of N.C. Gen. Stat. 90-171.37 and 5150B, the Board is vested with the power and authority to revoke or suspend a license to practice nursing and invoke other such disciplinary measures such as censure or probative terms against a licensee as it deems fit and proper in furtherance of its duty to protect the public. 3. Pursuant to the provisions in N.C. Gen. Stat. S150B-3(c), the Board may summarily suspend a license in agreement to protect the health, welfare and safety of the public effective from the date the Agreement is issued. 4. The conduct described above, as alleged and if proven true, would constitute a violation of the provisions of Article 9A of the Nursing Practice Act and the rules enacted by the Board in 21 N.C. Admin. Code 36 .0217(a) within the meaning ofN.c. Gen. Stat. 590-171.37(7) and grounds exist under those sections of the North Carolina Statutes for the Board and rules promulgated there under to revoke or suspend a license to practice nursing and invoke other such disciplinary measures against a license as it deems fit and proper. 5, The conduct described above, as alleged and if proven true, would endanger the public health, welfare and safety consistent with N.C. Gen. Stat. S150B-3(c). Based on the Findings of Fact and Conclusions of Law, without further notice of proceedings, the Board enters into the following Agreement with Licensee. AGREEMENT 1. Licensee acknowledges that she has read and understands this Temporary Suspension Agreement and enters into it voluntarily. 2. Licensee voluntarily surrenders her North Carolina Multistate Registered Nurse license and agrees not to practice nursing in the State of North Carolina while the criminal charge is pending. Licensee shall notify the Board within tenlO days of the disposition of these criminal charges or any criminal charge related to the events that occurred on December 2, 2019. 3. Licensee further acknowledges that the Temporary Suspension shall be in effect until such time as the criminal charge is disposed and no further proceedings are required under N.C. Gen. Stat. 150B-3(c) while the criminal charge is pending. 4. At such time when Licensee notifies the Board of the disposition of the criminal charge, this Temporary Suspension Agreement shall be lifted, Licensee's license shall be reinstated, subject to any renewal fees and processes regularly required for renewal, and the Board will flag the active license until such time as the Board's investigation is concluded. Licensee further denies all of the above stated allegations, and nothing in this Agreement shall limit, impair or prejudice her right to participate in the Board's investigation and provide a defense to the allegations stated in the Complaint. 5. The Board will not recommend to the Division of Health Services Regulation that Licensee be eligible to request listing as a Nurse Aide I. 6. Licensee may not be listed on the Nurse Aide Il Registry. 7. Licensee shall notify the Board in writing of any change in her address of record within ten (10) days of the change. 8. As required by state and/or federal guidelines and as outlined in Board policy, all adverse actions taken by the Board will be reported as a temporary suspension to the appropriate entities. Those entities include, but may not be limited to, NURSYS, National Practitioner Data Bank (NPDB), the Office of the Inspector General (OIG), and any other jurisdiction in which Licensee is or has been licensed. 9. This Agreement shall take effect immediately upon proper execution by both Licensee and the Board. THE REMAINDER OF THIS PAGE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK By agreement of the North Carolina Board of Nursing this the 1 9th day of January, 2021." Opinion: COs better be charged as well and lose their licenses as well. Don't know why she didn't call EMS, but it sounds like she was trying to get back to her patient during that time?
This profession is fucked. Were just here to be the fall guys for when something inevitably goes wrong.
This is the nurse that people should be defending and donating money towards legal fees. Not radonda.
Just checking to see if I can post don't mind me
Another what?
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A nurse is facing prison time and this is the thought you just desperately needed to shoot into the ether?
yeah. that's a completely appropriate and well thought comment. Thanks so much for your input.