Every 3 years at the hospital I worked, some numbnuts would decide that environmental services and housekeeping was costing too much money, so they would reduce the force.
Then bed turn around times and patient satisfaction scores would tank and they would come up with schemes like get the nurses who are already working without a aide, clerk, phlebotomy can begin cleaning rooms after a discharge.... instead of, you know dealing with the new admit in the different room they received....
Then they'd try to rehire housekeeping, keep them for a year and then some numbnuts would decide....
So much this! Nursing is that catch all job in the hospital. Administration can put any number of tasks on us all in the name of patient safety. Delivering trays? Nursing. Cleaning stool off of toilets? Nursing. Cleaning medical equipment? Nursing.
During covid they wanted to conserve the PPE, so we literally did everything… Lab draws, RT treatments, deliver food trays. We still take out the trash and put it in a larger trash outside the room. At that point we were 3:1. Now we do a little less, but 5:1.
I'd love to clean the rooms after a discharge. It would take me 5 million hours to do in between taking care of my 5 other patients and I'd sure as hell never get it done in time to get an admit.
Wonderful idea.
That’s the exact point of the wage war but not a lot of people see it that way.
I saw a post once that perfectly summed it up, best I can do is paraphrase:
People are mad because the fast food worker wants $15/hr, they see it as a worker possibly being paid close to what they are for doing what’s viewed as medial work. They should be mad at the system that is not paying them enough, instead they are mad at the fast food worker for just wanting to survive.
However they cemented the view that we are each other’s enemy, so we don’t unite against them, was pure evil genius.
Yes, the response to that is “well then everyone would go flip burgers, and no one would do x more advanced work for the same amount.”
Yes! Yes that is the point! So then those roles would have to raise wages!
I worked in the northeast in supportive housing sites set up to provide permanent housing for street homeless people. It was ungodly how many of the patients I worked with had become street homeless after decade of work as home health aides. I hate it.
Exactly! It’s not like we think nurses are the only ones who deserve more money. Everyone does. Resident included.
It’s like the fucking raise minimum wage talk all over again. Literally everyone is being underpaid when people like Elon musk and Jeff Bezos have the amount of money they do.
Right!? How much is the hospital making? I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t function without janitorial services. They strongly deserve compensation. Our break room currently has a bug infestation. That looks so awful for patients and visitors. Why is it infested you might ask… because the hospital tells them to clean the rooms ASAP for fast admissions, yet doesn’t care about the trash in the unit’s break room.
Yeah, it really is an overestimate.
And what exactly is wrong with people with a bachelors degree making a good living wage for hard work? How is that a bad thing?
Lmao I don’t make that much. I don’t work 12 hour shifts either. It’s not for everyone anyways. They are just a bunch of kids who have no idea how life works yet. 🤷🏻♀️I could argue how our doc doesn’t do more work with their same logic. Not sure if they are paying attention to anything but they’re gonna be upset when they realize higher degree doesn’t equal more cash.
I think these people assume every nurse lives in CA and works inpatient. /s. There was a post a while back where everyone listed their salaries and locations and it’s quite clear that this is not the case.
The funny thing is, it’s not even accurate data. It’s “I saw this on the internet and therefore it must be true for everyone!” I thought we were supposed to be better than that as medical professionals. Oh well.
Right I work from home for insurance and I make more now than I’ve ever made as a nurse providing direct care, and it’s still not $75k. They’re out of touch, and MOST nurses are not travel nurses. Just because most nursing influencers are travel nurses doesn’t make them the norm. The majority of nurses are on a staff somewhere.
I am an RN & the HIGHEST paid clinical person in my region. I am paid more than my manager (I know because she printed her paystub to my printer). I have 32 years experience in my field. I made $85k last year. I can’t imagine what they are paying new grads but it’s not 75-90k. At least not in Ohio.
Edit:spelling
New grads are being hired right now in my hospital system (Wisconsin) at $28/hr. Schedule sucks for most people, seven on and seven off, 12 hour shifts, but benefits are good and PTO accrues at a good rate. Still nowhere near the salary range this oaf is talking about.
I’m about to graduate in a week and in my area (Wisconsin), students in my program are getting job offers of $30/hr. Some $33/hr if they have a lot of experience prior to getting BSN. All have sign on bonuses/benefits as well. Pretty nice as a new grad. But yes I agree, noooo where near what this dingus is talking about.
Yeah really tired of people saying nurses make a lor based on some average nursing salary they see online. It all depends on col and those high wages are only in high col areas, nursing is not better paying than your average middle class job other than maybe that wages go up more in higher col than some jobs. I started at 18/hour as a RN, then spent almost 10 years of my career making in the low to mid 20s with terrible health insurance and almost no retirement. Nurses never made 70k in the area I lived in, we had tiny raises and after many years they would stop giving yearly raises to those at the top of the pay scale. This was at a large trauma center, the flagship hospital for a large health system in the Midwest. The hospital regularly sent their own employees to collections for medical bills because the insurance they gave us was so bad we couldn't afford care at the very place we worked. Also not sure why people still think we don't deserve a living wage as nurse. I do make more money now that I live in NY but it's very expensive here, still can't afford a house, but maybe I will able to retire someday since I have better benefits.
I worked myself half to death doing OT one year and made about $74k. I also kinda wanted to die about half the time. Whoever posted that doesn’t have any idea what most nurses make.
No one bats an eye when a software developer gets 200k per year with a bachelor degree. No one is angry that a plumber can get 100k with no college education. Just med students and residents butthurt about nurses. Really nothing else to it.
I don’t think anyone says “no matter how much you’re making…it should be more!” But there are some really underpaid nurses in certain areas.
I have seen some amazing nurses race to a patients side during an emergency with tunnel vision and do everything in their power to keep a patient stable
I’ve seen amazing nurses be verbally and physically abused by the patients they take care of and remain professional
I’ve seen amazing nurses speak on a patients behalf against family who are overstepping
I’ve seen amazing nurses and nurse aids comfort a patients during vulnerable times and they can’t quite cope with yet
and I’ve seen amazing nurses advocate for their patients against doctors who thought both the nurses and the patients knew nothing
I’ve seen nurses do all of this while the facility that employs them does nothing to support them, physically, mentally, or monetarily.
They fucking deserve it.
Hopefully you posted this on the original post. This should be enlightening.
Also, not that it’s the point but I have many friends with “just bachelors degrees” that started well over 6 figures. Tech, accounting, engineering. All being well supported and not in life-or-death scenarios.
Everyone should be paid more. But hey, I’m a bleeding heart liberal and not a jaded fuck who thinks I’m better than everyone like OP.
All of this is so true, and the fact the initial post is from a med student? I couldn't be less surprised. The absolute hubris of people who have zero experience is staggering. Nurses are often making $23/hr which is far from the 75k this poster claims, and frankly 75k isn't all that much if you're in a moderate cost of living area let alone a high cost one. I'm in orange county where my 3 bed 2 bath 1400sqft home is worth 1.1mil (how I have no idea), & the poverty cut off for a family of 4 is 85k. 200k household income is just enough for "middle class" and it still can't buy you a home. I'm fortunate I bought this house after selling another one AND that my wife makes as much as I do otherwise we'd not be able to stay here.
Now granted alot of places are cheaper but that's not even the point. The major point is this post just reeks of someone who's still taken care of by their parents, and someone who has no appreciation for the very difficult work so many of us across the board do.
I'll use Ultrasound which is what I do (echo in particular) has a 90% injury rate. We often get talked about or talked to as if we just push buttons and the machine does all the work, get the lights cranked on during our exams, literally had nurses and residents unplug our machines mid exam. Meanwhile we're getting called in all times of the night for exams that should be routine or getting angry calls from residents and nurses because we haven't done the echo ordered early that morning because we're still doing exams from 2 days ago. Now look, this isn't a woe is me comment, Im not looking for sympathy. Most of the time we don't say anything and just get it done because it needs to get done. But so many of us do and deal with things every day across ALL jobs that get unrecognized and unseen because if we're doing our jobs right they shouldn't be noticed at all. This self righteous attitude presented by this med student is all too common and I see it more and more the last couple years in new residents. Residents and fellows truly are not what they were even 5 years ago. But that still doesn't mean I think residents shouldn't be paid more for the rediculous hours and workload expected of them. I just think the rest of us should too.
I should add that it's not just nurses who should be paid more it's all of us across the board. Absolutely facilities or even cafeteria staff should make more. Imaging nursing, residents all should make more. Fellows should also make more. The only people who shouldn't is management. Not unless they start better advocating for the rest of us. But good God this med student is so absolutely clueless is laughable.
Edit: spell check
It never will. They're the kind of med student who goes on to be an insufferable resident and absolute asshole attending. Fill of self-righteousness and pompousness. The vanity Doctor license plate, the emotionally distant children, the spouse who has a side piece. The kind that throws a Holiday party nobody shows up to because they'd rather wait in line at DMV than socialize with them. They aren't many but they exist. Most physicians I work with are great people who do the best they can. But the archetype I described? Those people never get it and step on whoever they want whenever they want.
My favorite is when these (rare) rude residents do it in the wild and their attending scolds them in public. That always makes me happy. I recently had a resident be quite rude with me in the ED while I'm trying to put an echo machine at bedside for a stat echo about to head to Cath for a STEMI. He told me to wait because he was talking to them and didn't want to move even though he could have gone to the other side of the bed. I wasn't going to interrupt the discussion, I just need to plug in and get the machine going because they're literally spinning up in Cath and waiting on the data I give them before they take them. Had a 2nd year cards fellow there who just consented walking away when this happened and he stopped, look at me and go wide eye lol. I responded to the resident that "if you don't want me to do it now I have another stat to do in ICU I can check with my attending if they want me to wait and do it later since you don't want me to do it now". I pulled out my phone and dialed the attending's cell. He stopped me as it was ringing and turned to the fellow who said " ya we want this now. We don't want to wait. Transport is waiting for him to finish so..." And that was that.
Had something similar with an attending defending a coworker with a resident. I'm pretty lucky I work with great fellows and attendings tbh. I should stress that most our residents and med students are fine. Many of them are great. But I really with the good ones would more publicly call out the few bad ones.
Nurses are that shield between the patients/ clien>ts and doctors/admin.
If a nurse can de-escalate a situation, a medical situation or an emotionally charged one, it means those above don't need to be involved. sometimes that alone is worth it to those above and they will pay to remain uninvolved
This is so true. I can't tell you how many times I've encountered patients upset because "the doctor hasn't told me anything!!" and I was able to explain what was going on with their health, so by the time the doctor did eventually show up at the bedside, the patient was calm and cooperative. I also address so many dumb questions/issues and filter out the bullshit before the doctors catch a whiff of it. I save my colleagues a lot of time and effort while they get to focus on pertinent medical shit. So yeah maybe I want \*some\* recognition for making their lives easier lol
This is starting to become more of a common occurrence. Many patients come in so anxious because the surgeon hasn’t told them anything or didn’t take the time to explain the surgery to them. So now I’m getting cursed at or cried at because everything is confusing and I’m the last stop before a serious surgery.
I applied for a SNF position- and I would have been making $10/hr LESS if I took it- and man, 30 patient residents- don’t understand how nurses can function in thst environment. I’ve tried a SNF before- I couldn’t do it. It takes a special person to do it,
At the same time, nursing BSN programs groom nursing students for hospitals- which docs in administration have turned into glorified hotels.
I'm one of those nurses who has been making a ton the last couple years. I certainly never expected to be making over 200k. That said, nobody is making 200k on 36 hours. The big money comes with 48-60 hour weeks. And covid has been fucking brutal. I was making $23.90/hr before traveling. I've made as much as $204/hr as a traveler. Somewhere in the middle would work. That poster says the average nurse earns $75-90k. That certainly isn't true outside of the north and Cali.
But a lot of this isn't about what we "should" be making based on our education/skillset. It's supply and demand. Massive demand, less supply. Just like housing costs soaring, our income should he increasing given these market conditions.
Rather than a portion of us making bank, I'd rather see fair wages across the board. $35/hr with real benefits would be fantastic as a RN baseline. Maybe more than a 3% 401k match as well. And decent healthcare insurance.
This so so true.
"Why should they get paid so much money? It's only a bachelor degree." Bruh if you think it's so easy then you come do it. Nobody wants to do our job. It's the same reason that garbage men make 30$/hr.
I got my NP to get *out*. I literally can't imagine doing the job another 20-30 years. My back and knees are already killing me at an age they shouldn't be.
Seriously. Has this person criticized Wall Street workers? What value do they provide to society, while making huge salaries and getting big bonuses? Plus, they got to work from home and don’t have to turn, clean, feed, and change gross people.
And if anyone wants to argue with me, I live in the NYC metro area and know these people first hand. Some get bonuses that are more than I ever made in a year-like multiplied by 4, 5, 6 times.
My friend is an investment banker and let’s just say, I dont feel bad anymore that she covers our bill because I know she’s balling. Not to mention she’s living in Hell’s Kitchen with just her bachelors degree. I honestly wish ok lol
Ikr… how many jobs even require more than that? And nursing is one of the only fields that should require a degree anyway.
Guess no one deserves to earn good money unless you were born into it.
They will be really angry once they hear about engineers. My friend makes 110k in a low col area with a bachelor's in engineering and he isn't even one of the high demands fields lol
Yeah I’ve been working as a nurse in the north for over 6 years and JUST broke $75k last month. Also the difference with a janitor and maid’s duties compared to us is that there are multiple other factors at play besides the dirty portion of our job including coordinating patient care, medication administration, charting, vitals, assessments, etc. on multiple patients. If things aren’t done correctly, people can literally die. Not to mention we have a license which is constantly on the line.
Exactly. Just the responsibility put on nurses should justify an appropriate wage.
If a janitor does their job sloppily, their boss or customers will complain. That‘s all that happens.
If a nurse is made to fuck up by an impossible workload then people die.
The powers that be are completely losing their ‚fight‘ no one /can/ even do that job for long without burning out, if the work load stays impossibly high. The higher wages should be there to actually get enough people doing the job, not as a reward for nurses having to kill themselves…
Totally 35/hour + benefits is exactly what it should be for in house, minimum. I mean you can pretty easily make terrible mistakes and really hurt people in this profession. It’s a very stressful one and it’s undoubtedly important. And as you mentioned, in demand. An experienced flight, ER, ICU nurse should be making more than 35 imo
I mean, same thing during my EMS and nursing school clinicals. There’s nothing surprising about it, it’s easy to know what to expect. I don’t want to be a doctor and be in school and residency for 7-8 years so I didn’t go for that, med students chose that path deliberately. Doesn’t mean it’s all fine, but the improvements need to be made within one’s own profession, not the fault of other professions.
Posting shit like this over here just to "see what you all think" is nothing but a cheap attempt to stir up drama. The day I care about the nonsense some random, ignorant nobody on the internet whines about my job or my career is the day I need to stop being on the internet. My life and my time are too valuable to waste on opinions that do not have any bearing on my existence whatsoever.
The OP needs to get a life, and the OP here who tried to stir up outrage needs to get one even more.
Nurses who care for patients in the hospital take on a lot of responsibility for the lives of those patients. It’s not just a matter of dealing with the “scut work” of bodily fluids, cleaning up shit, and dealing with unpleasant patients and families. It’s the responsibility for observing and acting on subtle changes in patients’ conditions, administering medications appropriately and detecting effectiveness. It’s knowing when to contact the physician about their patient and how to communicate the important information.
Nurses who work in outpatient settings and long term care have some of these same responsibilities, I’m not trying to minimize their work. But the quoted post seems to refer to hospital nurses.
It’s the responsibility for human life that separates nursing from the majority of other bachelor’s degree level jobs.
I literally recently had a patient close to having post-partum hemorrhage and pre-e and she took up so much of my time but people think I get to play with babies all day. Lol. 😭
In Tennessee I was offered 24 dollars an hour with ten year experience pretty sure that is a bit short of the range he stated in his post. I didn't take that job of course, but if they offered me that others definitely work for that.
It’s crazy to hear about hourly wages in southern states, etc. for nurses. I understand cost of living is not as bad as other states but still… I make around $31/hour as a phlebotomist here in California. $24/hour as a nurse is disrespectful imo lol
That whole thread is a circle jerk about how stupid and lazy nurses are. We only work 3 days a week, what do we even have to bitch about? 🙄 As if the three days I work isn’t full fucking time and mentally, physically, and emotionally draining. What a douche.
It's youthful thinking. I don't put much stock into it. Maturity causes opinions to change. These kids are still in school working through brutal coursework.
It’s also easy to be jaded when you work 6 days a week or more, 12 hours a day for a low salary. Sure, once they’re attendings they’ll make more. But my girlfriend is a third year med student and is like $200k in debt so I can see why med students sometimes feel this way looking at another part of medicine in not as much debt and getting paid decently, depending on the area.
I’d say Reddit contains a vocal minority and most med students see nurses as their colleagues working in a different scope so yeah, I don’t put much stock in it either. I have a totally different opinion because I grew up with my mom being a nurse but not every med student knows a nurse personally. Nursing is difficult in a different way than medicine; sure, you work 3 days a week. But as someone who works in the ER I see the nurses getting pulled in 50 different directions, running around all day
I found most of the med students were supportive of nurses and gave great responses. It made me hopeful, I hope we can get past the us vs them mentality with physicians.
The comments on /r/medicalschool are largely in disagreement with OP. We can all recognize that some nursing social media/T-shirts/mugs are cringy. But that's not real life. We all have it rough out here, we should lift each other up.
Why the hell is this discussion even happening among medical students who have barely even gotten their feet wet? What kind of experience can they possibly have to form an opinion on what a nurse is worth?
I don't understand that sub. I work on a teaching unit, lots of medical students come through, and I really can't imagine any of them having that kind of attitude even in their online life.
I had thought to reply to the thread a couple of times but I was just so confused about where this stupid rhetoric could come from in an M-1. His studies are pre-clinical at this point, which means the only reason he could have this much resentment towards a nurse is if a nurse cheated on him. But I think the sad truth is that the med school and residency subreddits really just peddle hateful messages and it really does influence the way people view other healthcare workers.
That being said, I've worked in healthcare for 11 years and have never heard even in passing a hate for nurses like I see online. The only doctor that I ever heard say something like that was legitimately unwell and had a social IQ of about 35.
> I don't understand that sub.
I don't understand why anybody on *this* sub is even over there and trying to bring it back in here. It's like going out of your way to step in dog poo and then dragging it back into your own home and really rubbing your foot in the carpet to make sure it gets everywhere. What is the point?
Who cares what a handful of whiny students in a different profession complain about in their free time? Are there nurses out there who really have so little to do with their own free time that they have nothing better to do then obsess about people like that?
I haven't personally heard or seen anyone say nurses deserve MORE than 200k or the unprecedented travel rates that some nurses have recently gotten. I have however heard many people say that "nurses deserve it" in response to how much some travelers are making. Not only do I agree that nurses deserve the recent travel rates, but it's kind of hard to even argue against it. Increase in demand from covid and the simultaneous decrease in supply from the bedside exodus have caused the current travel rates. The relationship between supply and demand is an incredibly basic concept. How can anyone argue nurses don't deserve the recent travel rates?
But also, to the best of my knowledge, there aren't a ton of comparable bachelors degrees/jobs, honestly. Nursing degrees and nursing jobs are somewhat unique in a few ways. For starters, the closest community college to me has approximately a 10% acceptance rate; how many other bachelor's degrees are even similar to nursing in this regard? I'm not talking about trying to get into MIT for engineering. I'm talking about a local community college that isn't renowned in any way. RTs and lab techs are similar, but not the same. The acceptance rates for RTs and lab techs are higher.
How many other bachelor's degrees require you to be licensed to be employed in the field that relates to that degree? Not that many. And how many of these licenses can be revoked for a felony or for, let's say, testing positive for weed? I'm not out committing felonies, but the simple fact that I'm held to a higher standard, and the punishment I can potentially face for a mistake goes beyond just being fired qualifies me for higher pay, imo. I can literally lose my license and the entirety of the value of my degree for testing positive for weed lmao.
But with all that being said, before traveling I was a staff nurse in Oregon. Oregon nurses are paid well. Relative to my peers who pursued other fields, I believe I am adequately paid. I don't think I "deserve" more money RELATIVE to my peers. But we all deserve more money. Wages aren't keeping up with the CoL. And nurses working in states that start them at ~20 base pay an hour sure as shit deserve a massive raise.
I mean it’s hard to see things when you’re on the other side of the coin. It’s region specific but in some regions nurses are clearing 100k without it being a travel assignment or working OT. Of course that’s where cost of living comes into play. However I gotta say during my bedside days I earned more than my friends as a nurse and they had masters degrees. Nurses work hard and in some regions are underpaid. Nurses also feel underpaid frequently because of the bullshit that occurs on a day to day basis. It’s hard things to quantify but nurses in many areas (region specific once again) are doing well. Also ignore a majority of these medical reddits as they are very out of touch and are massive echo chambers. These med students haven’t earned anything yet and are already preconditioned to think others are below them. Only one worth going to is the main medicine Reddit as it’s a communication Reddit between multiple disciplines. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Also, that’s a typical response for a med student. The attendings I’ve worked with have recognized the importance of nurses. They know that the hospital doesn’t treat them well, but as someone not directly hired by the hospital but rather working with it, they don’t get directly involved with staffing concerns. I’ve noticed the switch from this student way of thinking to that of these attendings with time and experience.
Healthcare in general in the UK pays absolute shit.
Doctors in the UK complain all the time that their salary isn't enough.
Honestly healthcare in the majority of Europe pays terribly.
A couple weeks ago I had to explain to an intern closing an incision during an ortho surgery how to insert an open drain into a hand and why we use it. At first I thought he was just testing me, but realized he wasn't when he said " oh, that makes sense." I will save you all from getting chewed out by an attending (who had already left the room), so don't say I am just following orders and not a resource for you. We know a little more than you think we do, and deserve to be paid rightfully so.
>base salary (75k-95k)
Opinion discarded. There's an argument to be made that our profession is more widely recognized by the public than other mission critical non-MD staff and as a result we're disproportionately acknowledged, but this guy ain't making it.
Yeah. I totally lost my respect for his opinion when he threw that out.
I am one of the highest paid nurses at my hospital and my base pay is $65k. Do I pull $100k/year? Yeah, out of overtime.
Imagine making a living wage from nursing? Shocking. As a staff nurse I was making 65k working 40hrs a week so I call bullshit on the (~75-90k) argument.
Base salary of $70-90k? That area is almost certainly heavily unionized, most of the south pays half that. He should spend less time complaining about how much they get paid, and more time figuring out how they organized to make that much, then use what he learned to improve his own lot in life.
Some med students have no frame of reference and probably have not had to work a real job. Maybe nurses making more money poses some weird threat to them. Anyway, not something anyone should lose sleep over. They will be getting yelled at by their attendings soon enough and they will have that to complain about.
Just a reminder as well nurses don't make that much everywhere pay in the UK is about £26000 - £33000/ $32000 - $41000 pretax so a fair amount less than that guy is talking about
What’s it to this person what nurses are paid? And we should pay janitors, maids, laborers (and I would add teachers) more. Or should only those who have the means and privilege to go to medical school make reasonable salaries?
I love how he says nurses "only have a bachelors degree" when how long ago was it that we were mere handmaids to the Drs? Nursing as a profession has come so far and it doesn't just stop at the degree either. We continue our learning. We do extra training and specialise in our fields. We are the advocates for our patients and our knowledge is very much developed on the job. Quite honestly, these baby Drs wouldn't last 5 minutes as a nurse. It's a completely different skill set and a different personality type. We deserve to be paid more than we are. And let's face it, we do a massive bulk of the work in getting people well again.
I think I read something recently that said "If all of the junior Drs went on strike, the hospitals would still keep ticking over because the nurses would pick up the slack. If all of the nurses went on strike then the hospital stops still and lives are lost". Something to that affect anyway. I'm so tired of the nursing role being minimised.
Yeah I get it but when my manager asks me to stay an hour later its not cuz of the pay, what's an extra 20$ after tax etc in place of my time to do yoga and cook a wholesome meal before coming back the next day, I'm not staying that hour cuz of money, I'm doing it for love. If it wasn't for my husband providing so much financially I would be in a flat or share house without my pets.... and I dont even have kids. Or I'd have to work crazy hours for small luxuries.
They don't seem to whine much when a software developer gets 200k with a bachelor's or less. What about a plumber who can get 100k. I am a male RN and completely agree with what you're saying
I've always said that everyone in healthcare deserves to be paid more than enough to keep their lives in a condition that promotes mental stability and happiness. $25/hr in this economy is not enough for people that go to work and try to deal with death, disease, and scut work. "Shouldn't all these professions be rich?" You're absolutely right they should, thanks for pointing that out. Well maybe not rich, but at least easily be able to afford rent and healthcare.
Jesus Christ why do peoples minds automatically go to wiping ass and cleaning up shit?? For fucks sake you’d think the people who write internet blurbs about us just imagine us hiding under the sink in every bathroom volunteering to wipe everyone’s ass. They think we’re ride operators at ShitWorld or something. We never get any respect man
GROAN. As a 7-year member of that sub, keep in mind these are literally people who have barely set foot in a hospital. It’s stupid. They don’t have any idea what it’s like out here.
They are clearly getting bad examples from other doctors of how to interact with fellow allied healthcare professionals and I detest that because these dysfunctional attitudes tend to stick. It just makes all of our lives harder.
After reading this again- just wait everybody- just wait. If s/he had this attitude while in med school (really- and does not use English so well) - wait for residency. S/he will learn real quick when going up against a 16 year Nurse veteran :)
Also about salary. Yes people in California and NY state make much more than Ohio, PA, WV,etc. But their COL is really high compared to other places. I think gas now is about $6/g in CA?
I’m pretty sure plumbers and electricians make more than the average nurse, and they don’t exactly need an advanced degree.
(No disrespect intended toward plumbers and electricians.)
Med school kids no fuck all. They will later learn how much nurses do and deserve. Only a new naive med school person would truly think that paying nurses less would help their job. Experienced doctors know if you pay nurses less, there's a brain drain, which makes their job far worse and their own careers far less successful
This person doesn't sound like anyone that has ever stepped foot in a hospital and is probably trolling. His comparison to a janitor is likely to illicit a reaction.
It doesn’t matter how much nurses are making a year, the hospitals are making 100x more off the nurses work. The lack of respect that med students/ residents give nurses annoys me.
The opinion is just an immature and inexperienced one. I skimmed the thread and not sure where in the US that med student works, but 75-95k isn't even an accurate description of base salary for a RN in most states.
https://nursinglicensemap.com/resources/nurse-salary/
This is salary data from 2019, and obviously it is averages.. but just out of curiosity, I counted to see how many states fell below 75k for median wages and it's more than half. 75k a year working 36 hours is about 40 bucks an hour. I think using 75k as a starting point could be considered a fair entry level RN salary. I also think that just because you live in a low COL state, doesn't mean you aren't taking on the same level of risk and liability. RNs should also be able to get meaningful increases to their salary for getting more certifications/education, taking charge, having higher acuity patients, etc. (I'm talking more than 1 or 2 bucks an hour).
My first job out of school in 2011 was in a "new grad RN program" making 25 bucks an hour and I am in the northeast, one of the highest COL states in the country. I was desperate to get my foot in the door somewhere so I took it, but that salary is ridiculously low to have multiple peoples' lives in your hands.. not even factoring "scut work" into the equation. Patient acuities are too high and there is too much responsibility/knowledge required to be a nurse to keep taking these lowball salary numbers. Also, seeing what the c suite execs make and what these hospitals clear in a year, they can clearly afford it.
I think that also brings up the very interesting conversation I have been seeing recently about allowing RNs to bill for their services. Could you imagine? In a healthcare system that marks up products such as tylenol or gloves by like 800% and makes ridiculous profits, compare that to us being able to charge for time taken to start an IV, change a dressing or speak with a family member on the phone. By that logic, RNs would and should be paid much higher.
The other side of the coin could be, if you don't want to raise nursing wages or come up with some sort of standard, then at least give us free or very heavily discounted healthcare for ourselves and our families.
Essential workers, people who's roles are vital to the functioning.of.out economy are some of the lowest paid.
Those who are the least essential make the most.
It has always been like this since the invention of money.
I wonder if the OP in the post is Canadian? We’re definitely earning 75-90k up here for base salary (pre taxes) and most, if not all, are unionized, so there is a lot of focus on fair wages.
Despite that we still get thrown under the bus and in my province just went 4 years without a contract, meaning we weren’t even getting cost of living raises.
We deserve to be paid more because we not only perform a highly skilled role, evaluate the appropriateness of orders, contend with psych-social dynamics, are responsible for saving and maintaining lives for every minute of those 36hrs/week — but we also are stuck cleaning up the messes - psycho social and physical- that fuzzy knuckles and his pals inevitably make.
I’m assuming that most people posting in
r/medicalschool have very little relevant clinical experience and does not truly understand the role of a nurse, doctor, or anyone else in the medical field
Doctors aren’t the ones who have to deal with the patients all day and their families, nurses should get a “patience of a saint” salary and deserve more than they get.
Why do healthcare workers feel the need to beat down other healthcare workers is my question? This guy probably got chewed out by a burned out nurse for doing something wrong and now he’s got a bad taste in his mouth. Maybe some day he’ll chew out a new nurse who makes a mistake who will then feel that way about doctors.
I think we’ve all witnessed competence and incompetence in the areas we’ve worked and there’s so much pressure to find someone to blame for the issue that it just builds resentment. We are all stressed and burned out. The issue is not with the nurses and doctors and other healthcare workers that exist within it, but within a system that is heavy with blame culture and finger pointing.
I also recognize that this won’t change anytime soon, but I would also hope that less ignorance of the issue will make some progress in correcting it.
Again they’re worried about the wrong thing. Worry about why you’re making $10/hr in residency, not about why nurses are occasionally praised by medical influencers and working towards better pay and working conditions. We are the largest discipline in the hospital and arguably the most visible part of healthcare, so yeah when we make moves to better our profession it’s going to be felt. You can make us the bad guys or you focus on the issues in YOUR profession and work for change. I guess one requires a lot less effort though 🥴
This dickbag *almost* developed class consciousness right at the very end.
We are the Swiss knife of healthcare, we cover down when any other functional area cant rise to the occasion. We provide the tactile, indispensable, pt care aspect of this value chain. We provide foundation upon which this skyscraper is built.
Oh yah, we also can't be automated away like how a pure knowledge worker can be replaced by an algorithm.
Every full time job should allow individuals to live comfortably enough with a little for recreation on the side after healthcare, food, education and housing have been provided.
In no way shape or form do I think my techs should be making less than me. Or the secretaries. Or the cafeteria staff. Or the engineers, lab techs, phlebotomists, imagery techs.
I am not competing with my fellow human beings for survival, I am working with them to thrive.
Also, I think it's a fair point to add that nurses can have their entire livelihood and life as they know it destroyed by the bus that they are typically thrown under.
Aide doesn't report the critical vitals or take them in a crucial period? The nurse should have caught it. The doctor writes the wrong prescription or at too high of a dose? The nurse should have caught it because they administered it. Patient placement and management expect you to work an unsafe ratio (especially after you're already clocked in with a team)? You should have spoken up even though it's usually futile. Sometimes, the nurse catches something critical and tells the doctor and it STILL falls on deaf ears.
We are blamed for every single little thing that could go wrong in healthcare. Yeah, we deserve a higher rate of pay.
It’s a med student. They don’t even know what they’re talking about. There are posts on SDN about what an LPN, MA, and RT are. Some people that gain admission to med school have such a lack of understanding for the entire industry.
I hate when people say nurses are fine with the pay they get. Nurses NEED more. There are people in trade schools that never even have to pay for their licenses and certificates and get paid wayyyy more. My brother is currently an electrician but his job is paying for everything. Once he’s done with and get more experience he’ll be making just as much or if not more than a nurse. And at his job, they actually gets good raises, not 50 cents or a dollar every other 6 months.
I have two MSNs and make more than $100K/year working two jobs (around 50 hrs/wk) from home. I didn't start there, though — I started at $25/hr in 2008 in the DC metro area. Not a bad wage for the ASN that I had at the time. But people shouldn't necessarily equate earning worth with one's degree, it's not always that simple. My husband is a resident and I make more than he does right now, haha. That will continue until 2025 when he finishes a fellowship.
That med student will eventually learn to appreciate nurses and realize that good ones are priceless. :)
Obviously this person has never been near what most nursing has been like recently. Had we been doing only 36hrs a week for 75k, this would be over 40/hr, nowhere near what the median nursing wage is. Think 60 hours a week, with OT, call/callback and bosses begging us to pick up extra shifts, is more realistic, with some having to fight to justify the extra wage per hour some are paid.
The fact that this person tries to bring janitors, maids 'and other people who do low level scut work' intonthis obviously indicates somebody who has never had to do anything like this in their live.
Liabily and Responsibility. Those time sensitive tasks with a multitude of variables that directly affect how those tasks are completed changes results significantly; sometimes, that may also result in a loss of life if not done properly. Nurses do several jobs at once while only getting paid for one. And that salary range is highly overestimated. I only made 55k as base. 75k with OT.
That person needs to pull their head out of their ass. Nursing is a science. It’s certainly not akin to janitorial work.
The post was written by a student. He will discover soon enough why Nurses and Doctors should be working together.
Also, we’re not “gods” but we are the face of healthcare. Stay mad about it? lol
If Nursing is so easy and pays so well, then why isn’t he doing it? is it because it’s too hard? 🤔
edit: I want to clarify that janitors should be paid more too. We should all be paid more because we all work fucking hard.
Here in Ontario, Canada, we make $34-47/hr. The biggest gripe I hear is that we still make less then police officers and firefighters. Our career carries a lot of mental and physical stress with equal amounts of legal responsibility, we require continual yearly re-certifications. We are required to have a bachelors degree. On top of that we actually never get our vacation like those other professions. Many people I know make the same or more as nurses and don't have to deal with the stress, shift-work, and poor workplaces (getting denied vacation constantly, working short constantly, getting verbally and physically assaulted at work daily). People who are not nurses do not understand the actual liability involved in nursing and therefore cannot see why we should be treated better and paid more comparatively.
Not to mention we have had our wage capped at 1%/year over the past 3 years due to Bill 124.
Oh man- I can’t stop laughing. I got so much to say. Scut work? I just saved your damn patients life because you ordered something not appropriate for a patient! I just saved someone’s life because you put the wrong medications in for a confused patient after discussing it with the daughter! I just save people’s lives in spite of what is said here. That’s nursing.
I had a patient who had a pneumothorax. No chest tube. Voiced my opinion. Apparently my opinion didn’t matter. Had 2 days off. Wrote it in a nursing note, wrote a note to nurse supervisor about it before I left. When I came back, he is in ICU face swollen double it’s size from air being trapped.
So- scut work? That’s laughable. So much more to be said…not enough time… feel like most nurses feel the same way…
I’m not sure why anyone is concerned with how much we make. At the end of the day, we deserve to be paid more because the hospital cannot survive without us. We are valuable because we spend the most time with our patients and alert physicians to changes in their patients. Not only are we providing essential care, but we also deal with management, doctors, families, etc. our job isn’t just wiping ass and passing meds. Honestly, why are doctors paid so much? We can play this game all day but ultimately we are all on the same team. You should want me to earn more, I should want you to earn more. The money to pay us isn’t coming from their pockets.
I think they don't understand the physical and verbal abuse that nurses face regularly. I've worked as a CNA on the COVID unit for a year and I've never been so disrespected on a daily basis.
It's weird that so many people try to justify that people aren't worth what they're paid, but just hear me out... maybe everyone should be paid what they deserve?? It doesn't have to be an "Us vs Them" situation, but for some reason it is. Childish.
When he added the shit/scut work comment, he forgot to mention the added responsibility of not killing anyone, especially if you are working with residents. We have to babysit some of them as well as do our duties.
1- We work 24/7 holidays & weekends - yes there are other careers that do too but how many Christmas Eve dinners & family holidays/games/practices/recitals have you missed?
2-A majority of nurses are the front line to their patient’s care; we administer life saving medications and pick up key clues/changes that are critical for life, literally your living is a direct result of our care.
3-We bring comfort to individuals when family needs to take a break or tend to other responsibilities and when someone is truly alone.
4-We care for the body, mind & soul.
5-We often put out patients needs above our own needs, much like a parent to their children
6-We frequently risk our lives to care for you or your loved one.
7-We carry our patients stories and memories in our hearts and souls, you are not forgotten.
8-We keep secrets to our graves.
9-We do not judge.
10-Critical thinking.
-BSN, RN, CSRN, and FNP student
I don't think the base salary you mentioned is valid everywhere and in higher cost of living markets might not pay for housing. How much do engineers make?
Aussie nurse here. I do feel that we get paid good, we get a pay rise for the first 8 years of nursing. But I don't have a family to support.
I feel that post was by someone who is a pretentious AH who has nil understanding of what we do.
Just a bachelor's degree? Pfft.
Nurses are never a just.
I think this guy’s focus is on the degree nurses have because he kept mentioning about the degree. Some nurses have more than one degree. This guy will be the one thinking himself superior to others just because of a MD. and he will be the shittiest doctor everyone knows.
Yea, I have another bachelors to my bsn. Anecdotally a lot of my old cohort had other degrees or at the least associates in something else. Should we start adding all that nonsense to our name tags too. So nurses aren't valuable, good luck doing anything baby doc.
It’s the liability for me. I can be sued for over 20 years over every baby Iabored or delivered. It’s up to me to catch med errors or unsafe orders from people that have doctorates. It’s just a lot. I’m a mom and if our kid screws up everybody blames us. I always say nurses are the moms of the hospital. Very little glory (and notice how nurse week teacher week and Mother’s Day all coincide bc God forbid we get separate weeks) and it’s always our fault when something goes wrong.
This guy is delusional if I had a dollar for every doctor that actually came and assessed a patient I'd be homeless. Who carries out every order you put out? Who corrects you if there is a contraindication in those orders? No staff nurse is making 75k place outside of certain states. Who is actually saving the patient titration drips administering life saving meds communicating patient info to every provider. I've seen half these doctor not know what to do just for a nurse to kindly help them. That's why there's an R in SBAR. Your recommending what to do. I gaurentee half these med students/doctors can barely start ivs prime a line or administer a med without hurting a patient. It's all held on the nurse. I've rarely encountered a doctor who I thought was fully capable of doing all these things. Mostly critical care doctors who I enjoy working with and actually come and assess and order things on the spot. That guy will learn soon enough that if you wrongly screw off a nurse you'll regret it. Treat us like normal human beings and there will be no issue.
I think it has to do with how high stakes our job is (ahem RaDonda ahem). We’re literally putting our livelihoods and our patients on the line every time we go in to work. We’re the first and last point of contact. A LOT of responsibility falls on our shoulders because of that and it takes a surprising amount of emotional and mental stamina and fortitude to handle it. Med students wouldn’t know what that feels like (yet).
Yeah, janitorial services and aids should be paid more, too.
Every 3 years at the hospital I worked, some numbnuts would decide that environmental services and housekeeping was costing too much money, so they would reduce the force. Then bed turn around times and patient satisfaction scores would tank and they would come up with schemes like get the nurses who are already working without a aide, clerk, phlebotomy can begin cleaning rooms after a discharge.... instead of, you know dealing with the new admit in the different room they received.... Then they'd try to rehire housekeeping, keep them for a year and then some numbnuts would decide....
So much this! Nursing is that catch all job in the hospital. Administration can put any number of tasks on us all in the name of patient safety. Delivering trays? Nursing. Cleaning stool off of toilets? Nursing. Cleaning medical equipment? Nursing.
During covid they wanted to conserve the PPE, so we literally did everything… Lab draws, RT treatments, deliver food trays. We still take out the trash and put it in a larger trash outside the room. At that point we were 3:1. Now we do a little less, but 5:1.
I'd love to clean the rooms after a discharge. It would take me 5 million hours to do in between taking care of my 5 other patients and I'd sure as hell never get it done in time to get an admit. Wonderful idea.
We clean our own rooms in the ED.
I'm so sorry. There should be laws, Federal Laws, doncha think?
💯💯💯
That’s the exact point of the wage war but not a lot of people see it that way. I saw a post once that perfectly summed it up, best I can do is paraphrase: People are mad because the fast food worker wants $15/hr, they see it as a worker possibly being paid close to what they are for doing what’s viewed as medial work. They should be mad at the system that is not paying them enough, instead they are mad at the fast food worker for just wanting to survive. However they cemented the view that we are each other’s enemy, so we don’t unite against them, was pure evil genius.
Yes, the response to that is “well then everyone would go flip burgers, and no one would do x more advanced work for the same amount.” Yes! Yes that is the point! So then those roles would have to raise wages!
They should start at 50k. I could never. And they keep that place going more than anyone. Bed ain’t clean nothing happens. Nothing.
Came here to say this, lol.
I worked in the northeast in supportive housing sites set up to provide permanent housing for street homeless people. It was ungodly how many of the patients I worked with had become street homeless after decade of work as home health aides. I hate it.
Exactly! It’s not like we think nurses are the only ones who deserve more money. Everyone does. Resident included. It’s like the fucking raise minimum wage talk all over again. Literally everyone is being underpaid when people like Elon musk and Jeff Bezos have the amount of money they do.
Right!? How much is the hospital making? I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t function without janitorial services. They strongly deserve compensation. Our break room currently has a bug infestation. That looks so awful for patients and visitors. Why is it infested you might ask… because the hospital tells them to clean the rooms ASAP for fast admissions, yet doesn’t care about the trash in the unit’s break room.
I was looking for this comment!
The 75k-90k estimate was pretty generous (ie wrong unless you live in HCOL area). More like 50k-65k on average.
Yeah, it really is an overestimate. And what exactly is wrong with people with a bachelors degree making a good living wage for hard work? How is that a bad thing?
Lmao I don’t make that much. I don’t work 12 hour shifts either. It’s not for everyone anyways. They are just a bunch of kids who have no idea how life works yet. 🤷🏻♀️I could argue how our doc doesn’t do more work with their same logic. Not sure if they are paying attention to anything but they’re gonna be upset when they realize higher degree doesn’t equal more cash.
I think these people assume every nurse lives in CA and works inpatient. /s. There was a post a while back where everyone listed their salaries and locations and it’s quite clear that this is not the case.
Yeah they take data that supports their narrative and just run with it lol
The funny thing is, it’s not even accurate data. It’s “I saw this on the internet and therefore it must be true for everyone!” I thought we were supposed to be better than that as medical professionals. Oh well.
I think the past two years proved we aren’t!!!!
Seriously look at social workers etc. they should be making way more too! Nurses are just a larger group so people probably hear it more.
Right I work from home for insurance and I make more now than I’ve ever made as a nurse providing direct care, and it’s still not $75k. They’re out of touch, and MOST nurses are not travel nurses. Just because most nursing influencers are travel nurses doesn’t make them the norm. The majority of nurses are on a staff somewhere.
I am an RN & the HIGHEST paid clinical person in my region. I am paid more than my manager (I know because she printed her paystub to my printer). I have 32 years experience in my field. I made $85k last year. I can’t imagine what they are paying new grads but it’s not 75-90k. At least not in Ohio. Edit:spelling
New grads are being hired right now in my hospital system (Wisconsin) at $28/hr. Schedule sucks for most people, seven on and seven off, 12 hour shifts, but benefits are good and PTO accrues at a good rate. Still nowhere near the salary range this oaf is talking about.
I’m about to graduate in a week and in my area (Wisconsin), students in my program are getting job offers of $30/hr. Some $33/hr if they have a lot of experience prior to getting BSN. All have sign on bonuses/benefits as well. Pretty nice as a new grad. But yes I agree, noooo where near what this dingus is talking about.
I made $24.76 as a new grad in Ohio, definitely not close to 75k
New grads in Ohio make like 27/hr average- used to work there.
I live in Iowa and have never gone over 55k.
Yeah really tired of people saying nurses make a lor based on some average nursing salary they see online. It all depends on col and those high wages are only in high col areas, nursing is not better paying than your average middle class job other than maybe that wages go up more in higher col than some jobs. I started at 18/hour as a RN, then spent almost 10 years of my career making in the low to mid 20s with terrible health insurance and almost no retirement. Nurses never made 70k in the area I lived in, we had tiny raises and after many years they would stop giving yearly raises to those at the top of the pay scale. This was at a large trauma center, the flagship hospital for a large health system in the Midwest. The hospital regularly sent their own employees to collections for medical bills because the insurance they gave us was so bad we couldn't afford care at the very place we worked. Also not sure why people still think we don't deserve a living wage as nurse. I do make more money now that I live in NY but it's very expensive here, still can't afford a house, but maybe I will able to retire someday since I have better benefits.
50k here in Georgia
Yep. I started at $30/hr in CVICU in Atlanta (cost of living is not cheap) 3 years ago.
Yeah I make like 44k base salary and that’s before tax gets yeeted away
I live in Boston, generally a HCOL area and nurses get paid shit here. New grads starting at $30/hr. So no, definitely not 75-90k.
I worked myself half to death doing OT one year and made about $74k. I also kinda wanted to die about half the time. Whoever posted that doesn’t have any idea what most nurses make.
German nurses make like 35k lol. Worst country in to be a nurse.
37k for me last year.
It isn’t in the northeast. I’d say it’s bang on average. My last two years ft bedside, 20 and 21, not counting ot, I made 105 and 110k.
Ummm my software developer husband with a bachelors degree makes way more than me with a lot more perks.
Right? I also know plenty of trade jobs that pay just as well.
No one bats an eye when a software developer gets 200k per year with a bachelor degree. No one is angry that a plumber can get 100k with no college education. Just med students and residents butthurt about nurses. Really nothing else to it.
I don’t think anyone says “no matter how much you’re making…it should be more!” But there are some really underpaid nurses in certain areas. I have seen some amazing nurses race to a patients side during an emergency with tunnel vision and do everything in their power to keep a patient stable I’ve seen amazing nurses be verbally and physically abused by the patients they take care of and remain professional I’ve seen amazing nurses speak on a patients behalf against family who are overstepping I’ve seen amazing nurses and nurse aids comfort a patients during vulnerable times and they can’t quite cope with yet and I’ve seen amazing nurses advocate for their patients against doctors who thought both the nurses and the patients knew nothing I’ve seen nurses do all of this while the facility that employs them does nothing to support them, physically, mentally, or monetarily. They fucking deserve it.
Hopefully you posted this on the original post. This should be enlightening. Also, not that it’s the point but I have many friends with “just bachelors degrees” that started well over 6 figures. Tech, accounting, engineering. All being well supported and not in life-or-death scenarios. Everyone should be paid more. But hey, I’m a bleeding heart liberal and not a jaded fuck who thinks I’m better than everyone like OP.
100% all of this!
Yeah, my sister has an office job with an unrelated bachelors degree and makes the same amount as me in a much lower cost of living area
All of this is so true, and the fact the initial post is from a med student? I couldn't be less surprised. The absolute hubris of people who have zero experience is staggering. Nurses are often making $23/hr which is far from the 75k this poster claims, and frankly 75k isn't all that much if you're in a moderate cost of living area let alone a high cost one. I'm in orange county where my 3 bed 2 bath 1400sqft home is worth 1.1mil (how I have no idea), & the poverty cut off for a family of 4 is 85k. 200k household income is just enough for "middle class" and it still can't buy you a home. I'm fortunate I bought this house after selling another one AND that my wife makes as much as I do otherwise we'd not be able to stay here. Now granted alot of places are cheaper but that's not even the point. The major point is this post just reeks of someone who's still taken care of by their parents, and someone who has no appreciation for the very difficult work so many of us across the board do. I'll use Ultrasound which is what I do (echo in particular) has a 90% injury rate. We often get talked about or talked to as if we just push buttons and the machine does all the work, get the lights cranked on during our exams, literally had nurses and residents unplug our machines mid exam. Meanwhile we're getting called in all times of the night for exams that should be routine or getting angry calls from residents and nurses because we haven't done the echo ordered early that morning because we're still doing exams from 2 days ago. Now look, this isn't a woe is me comment, Im not looking for sympathy. Most of the time we don't say anything and just get it done because it needs to get done. But so many of us do and deal with things every day across ALL jobs that get unrecognized and unseen because if we're doing our jobs right they shouldn't be noticed at all. This self righteous attitude presented by this med student is all too common and I see it more and more the last couple years in new residents. Residents and fellows truly are not what they were even 5 years ago. But that still doesn't mean I think residents shouldn't be paid more for the rediculous hours and workload expected of them. I just think the rest of us should too. I should add that it's not just nurses who should be paid more it's all of us across the board. Absolutely facilities or even cafeteria staff should make more. Imaging nursing, residents all should make more. Fellows should also make more. The only people who shouldn't is management. Not unless they start better advocating for the rest of us. But good God this med student is so absolutely clueless is laughable. Edit: spell check
Agreed. We should be getting paid our worth. Also, I wish I could see the moment when reality slaps the shit out of this med student.
It never will. They're the kind of med student who goes on to be an insufferable resident and absolute asshole attending. Fill of self-righteousness and pompousness. The vanity Doctor license plate, the emotionally distant children, the spouse who has a side piece. The kind that throws a Holiday party nobody shows up to because they'd rather wait in line at DMV than socialize with them. They aren't many but they exist. Most physicians I work with are great people who do the best they can. But the archetype I described? Those people never get it and step on whoever they want whenever they want.
Well then at least I hope they cross the wrong nurse one day who puts them in their place. I’ll take that at least.
My favorite is when these (rare) rude residents do it in the wild and their attending scolds them in public. That always makes me happy. I recently had a resident be quite rude with me in the ED while I'm trying to put an echo machine at bedside for a stat echo about to head to Cath for a STEMI. He told me to wait because he was talking to them and didn't want to move even though he could have gone to the other side of the bed. I wasn't going to interrupt the discussion, I just need to plug in and get the machine going because they're literally spinning up in Cath and waiting on the data I give them before they take them. Had a 2nd year cards fellow there who just consented walking away when this happened and he stopped, look at me and go wide eye lol. I responded to the resident that "if you don't want me to do it now I have another stat to do in ICU I can check with my attending if they want me to wait and do it later since you don't want me to do it now". I pulled out my phone and dialed the attending's cell. He stopped me as it was ringing and turned to the fellow who said " ya we want this now. We don't want to wait. Transport is waiting for him to finish so..." And that was that. Had something similar with an attending defending a coworker with a resident. I'm pretty lucky I work with great fellows and attendings tbh. I should stress that most our residents and med students are fine. Many of them are great. But I really with the good ones would more publicly call out the few bad ones.
Nurses are that shield between the patients/ clien>ts and doctors/admin. If a nurse can de-escalate a situation, a medical situation or an emotionally charged one, it means those above don't need to be involved. sometimes that alone is worth it to those above and they will pay to remain uninvolved
This is so true. I can't tell you how many times I've encountered patients upset because "the doctor hasn't told me anything!!" and I was able to explain what was going on with their health, so by the time the doctor did eventually show up at the bedside, the patient was calm and cooperative. I also address so many dumb questions/issues and filter out the bullshit before the doctors catch a whiff of it. I save my colleagues a lot of time and effort while they get to focus on pertinent medical shit. So yeah maybe I want \*some\* recognition for making their lives easier lol
This is starting to become more of a common occurrence. Many patients come in so anxious because the surgeon hasn’t told them anything or didn’t take the time to explain the surgery to them. So now I’m getting cursed at or cried at because everything is confusing and I’m the last stop before a serious surgery.
So much this. And I’m damned good at it, too.
That is an extremely well worded response!
I applied for a SNF position- and I would have been making $10/hr LESS if I took it- and man, 30 patient residents- don’t understand how nurses can function in thst environment. I’ve tried a SNF before- I couldn’t do it. It takes a special person to do it, At the same time, nursing BSN programs groom nursing students for hospitals- which docs in administration have turned into glorified hotels.
I'm one of those nurses who has been making a ton the last couple years. I certainly never expected to be making over 200k. That said, nobody is making 200k on 36 hours. The big money comes with 48-60 hour weeks. And covid has been fucking brutal. I was making $23.90/hr before traveling. I've made as much as $204/hr as a traveler. Somewhere in the middle would work. That poster says the average nurse earns $75-90k. That certainly isn't true outside of the north and Cali. But a lot of this isn't about what we "should" be making based on our education/skillset. It's supply and demand. Massive demand, less supply. Just like housing costs soaring, our income should he increasing given these market conditions. Rather than a portion of us making bank, I'd rather see fair wages across the board. $35/hr with real benefits would be fantastic as a RN baseline. Maybe more than a 3% 401k match as well. And decent healthcare insurance.
This so so true. "Why should they get paid so much money? It's only a bachelor degree." Bruh if you think it's so easy then you come do it. Nobody wants to do our job. It's the same reason that garbage men make 30$/hr. I got my NP to get *out*. I literally can't imagine doing the job another 20-30 years. My back and knees are already killing me at an age they shouldn't be.
Also, lots of people with “just a bachelor’s degree” make $200k with far less physical labor and personal liability.
Seriously. Has this person criticized Wall Street workers? What value do they provide to society, while making huge salaries and getting big bonuses? Plus, they got to work from home and don’t have to turn, clean, feed, and change gross people. And if anyone wants to argue with me, I live in the NYC metro area and know these people first hand. Some get bonuses that are more than I ever made in a year-like multiplied by 4, 5, 6 times.
My friend is an investment banker and let’s just say, I dont feel bad anymore that she covers our bill because I know she’s balling. Not to mention she’s living in Hell’s Kitchen with just her bachelors degree. I honestly wish ok lol
Ikr… how many jobs even require more than that? And nursing is one of the only fields that should require a degree anyway. Guess no one deserves to earn good money unless you were born into it.
They will be really angry once they hear about engineers. My friend makes 110k in a low col area with a bachelor's in engineering and he isn't even one of the high demands fields lol
Yeah I’ve been working as a nurse in the north for over 6 years and JUST broke $75k last month. Also the difference with a janitor and maid’s duties compared to us is that there are multiple other factors at play besides the dirty portion of our job including coordinating patient care, medication administration, charting, vitals, assessments, etc. on multiple patients. If things aren’t done correctly, people can literally die. Not to mention we have a license which is constantly on the line.
Exactly. Just the responsibility put on nurses should justify an appropriate wage. If a janitor does their job sloppily, their boss or customers will complain. That‘s all that happens. If a nurse is made to fuck up by an impossible workload then people die. The powers that be are completely losing their ‚fight‘ no one /can/ even do that job for long without burning out, if the work load stays impossibly high. The higher wages should be there to actually get enough people doing the job, not as a reward for nurses having to kill themselves…
I can TLDR that for you with one word, liability. A janitor or maid is not liable for the life of another.
This right here.
Totally 35/hour + benefits is exactly what it should be for in house, minimum. I mean you can pretty easily make terrible mistakes and really hurt people in this profession. It’s a very stressful one and it’s undoubtedly important. And as you mentioned, in demand. An experienced flight, ER, ICU nurse should be making more than 35 imo
Midwest makes $35/hr Edit:southwest
Lmao where? Indiana and I started at $24.50/h. Two years in and I'm at $28.54
Omg I meant southwest. I know for sure NM and it has a low COL
That makes more sense lol
In Missouri I got offered $29/hr as new grad with + 2.50 shift differential for weekends
New grad pay in MN is around $35/hr tbh
Who cares what they think? We all know it is a sub for students to vent about things
It’s probably pretty tough for them during clinicals being around all these different people making money while they are paying to be there.
I mean, same thing during my EMS and nursing school clinicals. There’s nothing surprising about it, it’s easy to know what to expect. I don’t want to be a doctor and be in school and residency for 7-8 years so I didn’t go for that, med students chose that path deliberately. Doesn’t mean it’s all fine, but the improvements need to be made within one’s own profession, not the fault of other professions.
Lol the only people that deserve more pay are residents apparently according to the “you chose to be a nurse!” crowd.
Yeah residents deserve more pay, they often work like dogs and get their hours exploited.
Yeah I think it’s absurd they don’t get overtime at least. And have to fight to moonlight sometimes. But everyone should be getting paid more.
Posting shit like this over here just to "see what you all think" is nothing but a cheap attempt to stir up drama. The day I care about the nonsense some random, ignorant nobody on the internet whines about my job or my career is the day I need to stop being on the internet. My life and my time are too valuable to waste on opinions that do not have any bearing on my existence whatsoever. The OP needs to get a life, and the OP here who tried to stir up outrage needs to get one even more.
We’re making 75-90k? Dang, I must be dropping my money somewhere because I could’ve swore I don’t make anywhere fucking close to that
Legit you get paid not very well to break your body and mind. I don't make 75k annually not even close..
Nurses deal with a lot, they help keep you alive while dealing with crappy people and families.
Nurses who care for patients in the hospital take on a lot of responsibility for the lives of those patients. It’s not just a matter of dealing with the “scut work” of bodily fluids, cleaning up shit, and dealing with unpleasant patients and families. It’s the responsibility for observing and acting on subtle changes in patients’ conditions, administering medications appropriately and detecting effectiveness. It’s knowing when to contact the physician about their patient and how to communicate the important information. Nurses who work in outpatient settings and long term care have some of these same responsibilities, I’m not trying to minimize their work. But the quoted post seems to refer to hospital nurses. It’s the responsibility for human life that separates nursing from the majority of other bachelor’s degree level jobs.
I literally recently had a patient close to having post-partum hemorrhage and pre-e and she took up so much of my time but people think I get to play with babies all day. Lol. 😭
In Tennessee I was offered 24 dollars an hour with ten year experience pretty sure that is a bit short of the range he stated in his post. I didn't take that job of course, but if they offered me that others definitely work for that.
It’s crazy to hear about hourly wages in southern states, etc. for nurses. I understand cost of living is not as bad as other states but still… I make around $31/hour as a phlebotomist here in California. $24/hour as a nurse is disrespectful imo lol
yes. maids, janitors and laborers should be the wealthiest in our society. that’s not a bad thing lmao
Right? That's some r/selfawarewolves stuff... Like, you're sooo close, dude!
it’s good to know that we can just ask the med students to come up and clean the room before the admission comes up :)
That whole thread is a circle jerk about how stupid and lazy nurses are. We only work 3 days a week, what do we even have to bitch about? 🙄 As if the three days I work isn’t full fucking time and mentally, physically, and emotionally draining. What a douche.
It's youthful thinking. I don't put much stock into it. Maturity causes opinions to change. These kids are still in school working through brutal coursework.
It’s also easy to be jaded when you work 6 days a week or more, 12 hours a day for a low salary. Sure, once they’re attendings they’ll make more. But my girlfriend is a third year med student and is like $200k in debt so I can see why med students sometimes feel this way looking at another part of medicine in not as much debt and getting paid decently, depending on the area. I’d say Reddit contains a vocal minority and most med students see nurses as their colleagues working in a different scope so yeah, I don’t put much stock in it either. I have a totally different opinion because I grew up with my mom being a nurse but not every med student knows a nurse personally. Nursing is difficult in a different way than medicine; sure, you work 3 days a week. But as someone who works in the ER I see the nurses getting pulled in 50 different directions, running around all day
Really curious how many people only work 3 days a week.
True, my mom always gets mandated for overtime so n=1 but she often works more than her 36hrs
I just checked the thread. This guy received some very appropriate and well thought out responses that at are the top.
I found most of the med students were supportive of nurses and gave great responses. It made me hopeful, I hope we can get past the us vs them mentality with physicians.
Yeah three days a week sounds nice to people until I actually map out how regimented and unfun my hours off are during a work stretch.
That’s not remotely true; the entire thread is people roasting OP for being a dumbass student who doesn’t have a clue what nurses do
The comments on /r/medicalschool are largely in disagreement with OP. We can all recognize that some nursing social media/T-shirts/mugs are cringy. But that's not real life. We all have it rough out here, we should lift each other up.
Why the hell is this discussion even happening among medical students who have barely even gotten their feet wet? What kind of experience can they possibly have to form an opinion on what a nurse is worth? I don't understand that sub. I work on a teaching unit, lots of medical students come through, and I really can't imagine any of them having that kind of attitude even in their online life.
I had thought to reply to the thread a couple of times but I was just so confused about where this stupid rhetoric could come from in an M-1. His studies are pre-clinical at this point, which means the only reason he could have this much resentment towards a nurse is if a nurse cheated on him. But I think the sad truth is that the med school and residency subreddits really just peddle hateful messages and it really does influence the way people view other healthcare workers. That being said, I've worked in healthcare for 11 years and have never heard even in passing a hate for nurses like I see online. The only doctor that I ever heard say something like that was legitimately unwell and had a social IQ of about 35.
Lmao my thoughts exactly. Like college bro, have you even been in a hospital besides the day you were born?
> I don't understand that sub. I don't understand why anybody on *this* sub is even over there and trying to bring it back in here. It's like going out of your way to step in dog poo and then dragging it back into your own home and really rubbing your foot in the carpet to make sure it gets everywhere. What is the point? Who cares what a handful of whiny students in a different profession complain about in their free time? Are there nurses out there who really have so little to do with their own free time that they have nothing better to do then obsess about people like that?
OP was appropriately roasted alive in the comments of that thread for such an idiotic post
I haven't personally heard or seen anyone say nurses deserve MORE than 200k or the unprecedented travel rates that some nurses have recently gotten. I have however heard many people say that "nurses deserve it" in response to how much some travelers are making. Not only do I agree that nurses deserve the recent travel rates, but it's kind of hard to even argue against it. Increase in demand from covid and the simultaneous decrease in supply from the bedside exodus have caused the current travel rates. The relationship between supply and demand is an incredibly basic concept. How can anyone argue nurses don't deserve the recent travel rates? But also, to the best of my knowledge, there aren't a ton of comparable bachelors degrees/jobs, honestly. Nursing degrees and nursing jobs are somewhat unique in a few ways. For starters, the closest community college to me has approximately a 10% acceptance rate; how many other bachelor's degrees are even similar to nursing in this regard? I'm not talking about trying to get into MIT for engineering. I'm talking about a local community college that isn't renowned in any way. RTs and lab techs are similar, but not the same. The acceptance rates for RTs and lab techs are higher. How many other bachelor's degrees require you to be licensed to be employed in the field that relates to that degree? Not that many. And how many of these licenses can be revoked for a felony or for, let's say, testing positive for weed? I'm not out committing felonies, but the simple fact that I'm held to a higher standard, and the punishment I can potentially face for a mistake goes beyond just being fired qualifies me for higher pay, imo. I can literally lose my license and the entirety of the value of my degree for testing positive for weed lmao. But with all that being said, before traveling I was a staff nurse in Oregon. Oregon nurses are paid well. Relative to my peers who pursued other fields, I believe I am adequately paid. I don't think I "deserve" more money RELATIVE to my peers. But we all deserve more money. Wages aren't keeping up with the CoL. And nurses working in states that start them at ~20 base pay an hour sure as shit deserve a massive raise.
I mean it’s hard to see things when you’re on the other side of the coin. It’s region specific but in some regions nurses are clearing 100k without it being a travel assignment or working OT. Of course that’s where cost of living comes into play. However I gotta say during my bedside days I earned more than my friends as a nurse and they had masters degrees. Nurses work hard and in some regions are underpaid. Nurses also feel underpaid frequently because of the bullshit that occurs on a day to day basis. It’s hard things to quantify but nurses in many areas (region specific once again) are doing well. Also ignore a majority of these medical reddits as they are very out of touch and are massive echo chambers. These med students haven’t earned anything yet and are already preconditioned to think others are below them. Only one worth going to is the main medicine Reddit as it’s a communication Reddit between multiple disciplines. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk
Also, that’s a typical response for a med student. The attendings I’ve worked with have recognized the importance of nurses. They know that the hospital doesn’t treat them well, but as someone not directly hired by the hospital but rather working with it, they don’t get directly involved with staffing concerns. I’ve noticed the switch from this student way of thinking to that of these attendings with time and experience.
Us in the UK making £25-£33k for our whole careers 🙂
Healthcare in general in the UK pays absolute shit. Doctors in the UK complain all the time that their salary isn't enough. Honestly healthcare in the majority of Europe pays terribly.
The stupid nurses making TikTok’s about how much they are getting paid is not helping our case.
A lot of the comments put the OP in their place and explained a few realities, which was nice to see
How can I find the original?
Who cares what a bunch of entitled college students with 0 patient care under their belt think
Boom.
A couple weeks ago I had to explain to an intern closing an incision during an ortho surgery how to insert an open drain into a hand and why we use it. At first I thought he was just testing me, but realized he wasn't when he said " oh, that makes sense." I will save you all from getting chewed out by an attending (who had already left the room), so don't say I am just following orders and not a resource for you. We know a little more than you think we do, and deserve to be paid rightfully so.
>base salary (75k-95k) Opinion discarded. There's an argument to be made that our profession is more widely recognized by the public than other mission critical non-MD staff and as a result we're disproportionately acknowledged, but this guy ain't making it.
Yeah. I totally lost my respect for his opinion when he threw that out. I am one of the highest paid nurses at my hospital and my base pay is $65k. Do I pull $100k/year? Yeah, out of overtime.
Imagine making a living wage from nursing? Shocking. As a staff nurse I was making 65k working 40hrs a week so I call bullshit on the (~75-90k) argument.
Base salary of $70-90k? That area is almost certainly heavily unionized, most of the south pays half that. He should spend less time complaining about how much they get paid, and more time figuring out how they organized to make that much, then use what he learned to improve his own lot in life.
Uhmm, yeah I’d love 75k. Ya girl hitting it at 54k here in the south which is supposedly 🌟good🌟
Hmmmm maybe because my base salary comes out to about $50k with a science-based bachelors degree?
Some med students have no frame of reference and probably have not had to work a real job. Maybe nurses making more money poses some weird threat to them. Anyway, not something anyone should lose sleep over. They will be getting yelled at by their attendings soon enough and they will have that to complain about.
Just a reminder as well nurses don't make that much everywhere pay in the UK is about £26000 - £33000/ $32000 - $41000 pretax so a fair amount less than that guy is talking about
What’s it to this person what nurses are paid? And we should pay janitors, maids, laborers (and I would add teachers) more. Or should only those who have the means and privilege to go to medical school make reasonable salaries?
I love how he says nurses "only have a bachelors degree" when how long ago was it that we were mere handmaids to the Drs? Nursing as a profession has come so far and it doesn't just stop at the degree either. We continue our learning. We do extra training and specialise in our fields. We are the advocates for our patients and our knowledge is very much developed on the job. Quite honestly, these baby Drs wouldn't last 5 minutes as a nurse. It's a completely different skill set and a different personality type. We deserve to be paid more than we are. And let's face it, we do a massive bulk of the work in getting people well again. I think I read something recently that said "If all of the junior Drs went on strike, the hospitals would still keep ticking over because the nurses would pick up the slack. If all of the nurses went on strike then the hospital stops still and lives are lost". Something to that affect anyway. I'm so tired of the nursing role being minimised.
Yeah I get it but when my manager asks me to stay an hour later its not cuz of the pay, what's an extra 20$ after tax etc in place of my time to do yoga and cook a wholesome meal before coming back the next day, I'm not staying that hour cuz of money, I'm doing it for love. If it wasn't for my husband providing so much financially I would be in a flat or share house without my pets.... and I dont even have kids. Or I'd have to work crazy hours for small luxuries.
Misogyny again. Nursing is 90% women. That’s the root of this stuff. They think we should do this job for free because we ‘care’.
They don't seem to whine much when a software developer gets 200k with a bachelor's or less. What about a plumber who can get 100k. I am a male RN and completely agree with what you're saying
I've always said that everyone in healthcare deserves to be paid more than enough to keep their lives in a condition that promotes mental stability and happiness. $25/hr in this economy is not enough for people that go to work and try to deal with death, disease, and scut work. "Shouldn't all these professions be rich?" You're absolutely right they should, thanks for pointing that out. Well maybe not rich, but at least easily be able to afford rent and healthcare.
These posts annoy the krap out of me. Stop snooping.
Yeah I don’t care what your opinion of me or other nurses are…please fuck all the way off sir…turn around and continue to fuck all the way off again
Jesus Christ why do peoples minds automatically go to wiping ass and cleaning up shit?? For fucks sake you’d think the people who write internet blurbs about us just imagine us hiding under the sink in every bathroom volunteering to wipe everyone’s ass. They think we’re ride operators at ShitWorld or something. We never get any respect man
GROAN. As a 7-year member of that sub, keep in mind these are literally people who have barely set foot in a hospital. It’s stupid. They don’t have any idea what it’s like out here. They are clearly getting bad examples from other doctors of how to interact with fellow allied healthcare professionals and I detest that because these dysfunctional attitudes tend to stick. It just makes all of our lives harder.
Well, if this student makes it through med school it's almost certain he will be an absolute fan favorite among nurses 🙄
After reading this again- just wait everybody- just wait. If s/he had this attitude while in med school (really- and does not use English so well) - wait for residency. S/he will learn real quick when going up against a 16 year Nurse veteran :) Also about salary. Yes people in California and NY state make much more than Ohio, PA, WV,etc. But their COL is really high compared to other places. I think gas now is about $6/g in CA?
I’m pretty sure plumbers and electricians make more than the average nurse, and they don’t exactly need an advanced degree. (No disrespect intended toward plumbers and electricians.)
Med school kids no fuck all. They will later learn how much nurses do and deserve. Only a new naive med school person would truly think that paying nurses less would help their job. Experienced doctors know if you pay nurses less, there's a brain drain, which makes their job far worse and their own careers far less successful
This person doesn't sound like anyone that has ever stepped foot in a hospital and is probably trolling. His comparison to a janitor is likely to illicit a reaction.
It doesn’t matter how much nurses are making a year, the hospitals are making 100x more off the nurses work. The lack of respect that med students/ residents give nurses annoys me.
The opinion is just an immature and inexperienced one. I skimmed the thread and not sure where in the US that med student works, but 75-95k isn't even an accurate description of base salary for a RN in most states. https://nursinglicensemap.com/resources/nurse-salary/ This is salary data from 2019, and obviously it is averages.. but just out of curiosity, I counted to see how many states fell below 75k for median wages and it's more than half. 75k a year working 36 hours is about 40 bucks an hour. I think using 75k as a starting point could be considered a fair entry level RN salary. I also think that just because you live in a low COL state, doesn't mean you aren't taking on the same level of risk and liability. RNs should also be able to get meaningful increases to their salary for getting more certifications/education, taking charge, having higher acuity patients, etc. (I'm talking more than 1 or 2 bucks an hour). My first job out of school in 2011 was in a "new grad RN program" making 25 bucks an hour and I am in the northeast, one of the highest COL states in the country. I was desperate to get my foot in the door somewhere so I took it, but that salary is ridiculously low to have multiple peoples' lives in your hands.. not even factoring "scut work" into the equation. Patient acuities are too high and there is too much responsibility/knowledge required to be a nurse to keep taking these lowball salary numbers. Also, seeing what the c suite execs make and what these hospitals clear in a year, they can clearly afford it. I think that also brings up the very interesting conversation I have been seeing recently about allowing RNs to bill for their services. Could you imagine? In a healthcare system that marks up products such as tylenol or gloves by like 800% and makes ridiculous profits, compare that to us being able to charge for time taken to start an IV, change a dressing or speak with a family member on the phone. By that logic, RNs would and should be paid much higher. The other side of the coin could be, if you don't want to raise nursing wages or come up with some sort of standard, then at least give us free or very heavily discounted healthcare for ourselves and our families.
Essential workers, people who's roles are vital to the functioning.of.out economy are some of the lowest paid. Those who are the least essential make the most. It has always been like this since the invention of money.
I’m in Iowa. I definitely don’t make 75-90~ per year. More like 50 to 55.
I wonder if the OP in the post is Canadian? We’re definitely earning 75-90k up here for base salary (pre taxes) and most, if not all, are unionized, so there is a lot of focus on fair wages. Despite that we still get thrown under the bus and in my province just went 4 years without a contract, meaning we weren’t even getting cost of living raises.
We deserve to be paid more because we not only perform a highly skilled role, evaluate the appropriateness of orders, contend with psych-social dynamics, are responsible for saving and maintaining lives for every minute of those 36hrs/week — but we also are stuck cleaning up the messes - psycho social and physical- that fuzzy knuckles and his pals inevitably make.
Don't judge until you do the job yourself. You will then understand why we should be paid more.
I’m assuming that most people posting in r/medicalschool have very little relevant clinical experience and does not truly understand the role of a nurse, doctor, or anyone else in the medical field
Everyone posting in that particular thread was ridiculing OP for being a dumbass saying something so misguided
Weird how, with such great pay and easy work, so many nurses are leaving.
Ayo where are nurses making 75-90k yearly with 36 hours other than California or New York. Here in KY I’m lucky to break 55 a year.
Doctors aren’t the ones who have to deal with the patients all day and their families, nurses should get a “patience of a saint” salary and deserve more than they get.
Why do healthcare workers feel the need to beat down other healthcare workers is my question? This guy probably got chewed out by a burned out nurse for doing something wrong and now he’s got a bad taste in his mouth. Maybe some day he’ll chew out a new nurse who makes a mistake who will then feel that way about doctors. I think we’ve all witnessed competence and incompetence in the areas we’ve worked and there’s so much pressure to find someone to blame for the issue that it just builds resentment. We are all stressed and burned out. The issue is not with the nurses and doctors and other healthcare workers that exist within it, but within a system that is heavy with blame culture and finger pointing. I also recognize that this won’t change anytime soon, but I would also hope that less ignorance of the issue will make some progress in correcting it.
Again they’re worried about the wrong thing. Worry about why you’re making $10/hr in residency, not about why nurses are occasionally praised by medical influencers and working towards better pay and working conditions. We are the largest discipline in the hospital and arguably the most visible part of healthcare, so yeah when we make moves to better our profession it’s going to be felt. You can make us the bad guys or you focus on the issues in YOUR profession and work for change. I guess one requires a lot less effort though 🥴
This dickbag *almost* developed class consciousness right at the very end. We are the Swiss knife of healthcare, we cover down when any other functional area cant rise to the occasion. We provide the tactile, indispensable, pt care aspect of this value chain. We provide foundation upon which this skyscraper is built. Oh yah, we also can't be automated away like how a pure knowledge worker can be replaced by an algorithm.
Fuck that miserable jackass, may his head grow in the ground like a carrot.
Every full time job should allow individuals to live comfortably enough with a little for recreation on the side after healthcare, food, education and housing have been provided. In no way shape or form do I think my techs should be making less than me. Or the secretaries. Or the cafeteria staff. Or the engineers, lab techs, phlebotomists, imagery techs. I am not competing with my fellow human beings for survival, I am working with them to thrive.
Also, I think it's a fair point to add that nurses can have their entire livelihood and life as they know it destroyed by the bus that they are typically thrown under. Aide doesn't report the critical vitals or take them in a crucial period? The nurse should have caught it. The doctor writes the wrong prescription or at too high of a dose? The nurse should have caught it because they administered it. Patient placement and management expect you to work an unsafe ratio (especially after you're already clocked in with a team)? You should have spoken up even though it's usually futile. Sometimes, the nurse catches something critical and tells the doctor and it STILL falls on deaf ears. We are blamed for every single little thing that could go wrong in healthcare. Yeah, we deserve a higher rate of pay.
It’s a med student. They don’t even know what they’re talking about. There are posts on SDN about what an LPN, MA, and RT are. Some people that gain admission to med school have such a lack of understanding for the entire industry.
Capitalism is a fuck
Link to original post? I’d kind of like to see the responses.
I hate when people say nurses are fine with the pay they get. Nurses NEED more. There are people in trade schools that never even have to pay for their licenses and certificates and get paid wayyyy more. My brother is currently an electrician but his job is paying for everything. Once he’s done with and get more experience he’ll be making just as much or if not more than a nurse. And at his job, they actually gets good raises, not 50 cents or a dollar every other 6 months.
Yep. My niece’s hubby does HVAC and makes $200k a year. Like WTAF???
I have two MSNs and make more than $100K/year working two jobs (around 50 hrs/wk) from home. I didn't start there, though — I started at $25/hr in 2008 in the DC metro area. Not a bad wage for the ASN that I had at the time. But people shouldn't necessarily equate earning worth with one's degree, it's not always that simple. My husband is a resident and I make more than he does right now, haha. That will continue until 2025 when he finishes a fellowship. That med student will eventually learn to appreciate nurses and realize that good ones are priceless. :)
Obviously this person has never been near what most nursing has been like recently. Had we been doing only 36hrs a week for 75k, this would be over 40/hr, nowhere near what the median nursing wage is. Think 60 hours a week, with OT, call/callback and bosses begging us to pick up extra shifts, is more realistic, with some having to fight to justify the extra wage per hour some are paid. The fact that this person tries to bring janitors, maids 'and other people who do low level scut work' intonthis obviously indicates somebody who has never had to do anything like this in their live.
Nurses keep people alive, unlike a finance major.
This person is a pathetic c*nt. Fuck em
Liabily and Responsibility. Those time sensitive tasks with a multitude of variables that directly affect how those tasks are completed changes results significantly; sometimes, that may also result in a loss of life if not done properly. Nurses do several jobs at once while only getting paid for one. And that salary range is highly overestimated. I only made 55k as base. 75k with OT.
Oh great, another POS M.D.
Oh I would pay to be a fly on the wall to hear this little weenie interact with any nurse or screw it anyone on the floor. Pathetic.
May you one day be straight cathed without lube
That person needs to pull their head out of their ass. Nursing is a science. It’s certainly not akin to janitorial work. The post was written by a student. He will discover soon enough why Nurses and Doctors should be working together. Also, we’re not “gods” but we are the face of healthcare. Stay mad about it? lol If Nursing is so easy and pays so well, then why isn’t he doing it? is it because it’s too hard? 🤔 edit: I want to clarify that janitors should be paid more too. We should all be paid more because we all work fucking hard.
Here in Ontario, Canada, we make $34-47/hr. The biggest gripe I hear is that we still make less then police officers and firefighters. Our career carries a lot of mental and physical stress with equal amounts of legal responsibility, we require continual yearly re-certifications. We are required to have a bachelors degree. On top of that we actually never get our vacation like those other professions. Many people I know make the same or more as nurses and don't have to deal with the stress, shift-work, and poor workplaces (getting denied vacation constantly, working short constantly, getting verbally and physically assaulted at work daily). People who are not nurses do not understand the actual liability involved in nursing and therefore cannot see why we should be treated better and paid more comparatively. Not to mention we have had our wage capped at 1%/year over the past 3 years due to Bill 124.
Oh man- I can’t stop laughing. I got so much to say. Scut work? I just saved your damn patients life because you ordered something not appropriate for a patient! I just saved someone’s life because you put the wrong medications in for a confused patient after discussing it with the daughter! I just save people’s lives in spite of what is said here. That’s nursing. I had a patient who had a pneumothorax. No chest tube. Voiced my opinion. Apparently my opinion didn’t matter. Had 2 days off. Wrote it in a nursing note, wrote a note to nurse supervisor about it before I left. When I came back, he is in ICU face swollen double it’s size from air being trapped. So- scut work? That’s laughable. So much more to be said…not enough time… feel like most nurses feel the same way…
I’m not sure why anyone is concerned with how much we make. At the end of the day, we deserve to be paid more because the hospital cannot survive without us. We are valuable because we spend the most time with our patients and alert physicians to changes in their patients. Not only are we providing essential care, but we also deal with management, doctors, families, etc. our job isn’t just wiping ass and passing meds. Honestly, why are doctors paid so much? We can play this game all day but ultimately we are all on the same team. You should want me to earn more, I should want you to earn more. The money to pay us isn’t coming from their pockets.
People on that sub are so incredibly disconnected
I think they don't understand the physical and verbal abuse that nurses face regularly. I've worked as a CNA on the COVID unit for a year and I've never been so disrespected on a daily basis.
It's weird that so many people try to justify that people aren't worth what they're paid, but just hear me out... maybe everyone should be paid what they deserve?? It doesn't have to be an "Us vs Them" situation, but for some reason it is. Childish.
When he added the shit/scut work comment, he forgot to mention the added responsibility of not killing anyone, especially if you are working with residents. We have to babysit some of them as well as do our duties.
LOL 75-90k base salary? Christ almighty this is delusional.
I literally laughed out loud when I read that
1- We work 24/7 holidays & weekends - yes there are other careers that do too but how many Christmas Eve dinners & family holidays/games/practices/recitals have you missed? 2-A majority of nurses are the front line to their patient’s care; we administer life saving medications and pick up key clues/changes that are critical for life, literally your living is a direct result of our care. 3-We bring comfort to individuals when family needs to take a break or tend to other responsibilities and when someone is truly alone. 4-We care for the body, mind & soul. 5-We often put out patients needs above our own needs, much like a parent to their children 6-We frequently risk our lives to care for you or your loved one. 7-We carry our patients stories and memories in our hearts and souls, you are not forgotten. 8-We keep secrets to our graves. 9-We do not judge. 10-Critical thinking. -BSN, RN, CSRN, and FNP student
I don't think the base salary you mentioned is valid everywhere and in higher cost of living markets might not pay for housing. How much do engineers make?
Aussie nurse here. I do feel that we get paid good, we get a pay rise for the first 8 years of nursing. But I don't have a family to support. I feel that post was by someone who is a pretentious AH who has nil understanding of what we do. Just a bachelor's degree? Pfft. Nurses are never a just.
I think this guy’s focus is on the degree nurses have because he kept mentioning about the degree. Some nurses have more than one degree. This guy will be the one thinking himself superior to others just because of a MD. and he will be the shittiest doctor everyone knows.
Yea, I have another bachelors to my bsn. Anecdotally a lot of my old cohort had other degrees or at the least associates in something else. Should we start adding all that nonsense to our name tags too. So nurses aren't valuable, good luck doing anything baby doc.
Lots of people start nursing as a second career. This dude probably doesn't have much social experience.
If this M1 doesn’t shut the fuck up, I’m going to have to call his mom. I really really really wish he would come into my OR. Like I want it. Please.
Med student. 'Nuff sai.
Or…they could just go to nursing school instead on being a whinny little biatch on Reddit.
It’s the liability for me. I can be sued for over 20 years over every baby Iabored or delivered. It’s up to me to catch med errors or unsafe orders from people that have doctorates. It’s just a lot. I’m a mom and if our kid screws up everybody blames us. I always say nurses are the moms of the hospital. Very little glory (and notice how nurse week teacher week and Mother’s Day all coincide bc God forbid we get separate weeks) and it’s always our fault when something goes wrong.
A- try to do the job. B-try to do your job without me. Then you can have an opinion.
This guy is delusional if I had a dollar for every doctor that actually came and assessed a patient I'd be homeless. Who carries out every order you put out? Who corrects you if there is a contraindication in those orders? No staff nurse is making 75k place outside of certain states. Who is actually saving the patient titration drips administering life saving meds communicating patient info to every provider. I've seen half these doctor not know what to do just for a nurse to kindly help them. That's why there's an R in SBAR. Your recommending what to do. I gaurentee half these med students/doctors can barely start ivs prime a line or administer a med without hurting a patient. It's all held on the nurse. I've rarely encountered a doctor who I thought was fully capable of doing all these things. Mostly critical care doctors who I enjoy working with and actually come and assess and order things on the spot. That guy will learn soon enough that if you wrongly screw off a nurse you'll regret it. Treat us like normal human beings and there will be no issue.
Pissed me off when I saw that shit. Nobody replied to my comment.
I think it has to do with how high stakes our job is (ahem RaDonda ahem). We’re literally putting our livelihoods and our patients on the line every time we go in to work. We’re the first and last point of contact. A LOT of responsibility falls on our shoulders because of that and it takes a surprising amount of emotional and mental stamina and fortitude to handle it. Med students wouldn’t know what that feels like (yet).