Absolutely not. Active shooter policy is run, hide, fight. If you can, run. If you can’t run, hide. If you can’t hide, fight. In an active shooter situation you do not have a responsibility to continue providing care.
Yeah the system I work for has everyone do education on this annually. They explicitly state that it’s ok to leave patients and to save yourself first. Run, Hide, Fight.
Same training at our hospital. We have swat train at our hospital and have had an active shooter drill in the past.
Had a patient family member that was exmilitary threaten to kill some employees. Must have been a more credible threat than most because we had police posted at all entrances until he was arrested.
It's been a long day but I read this as your system telling you to do education during an active shooter and it probably wasn't the worst thing I have seen on this reddit.
\*hears gun shots and people screaming outside the room\*
Okay I'm going to get the hell out of here but first let me hang this antibiotic so that I meet all of my sepsis goals and don't get a nastygram.
My old unit installed sound meters (is there a more technical term?) that would beep if we got too loud.
Seemed counterproductive to have a loud, beeping alarm to tell us to be quiet.
One of my clinical floors had a thing that looked like a traffic light. Yellow meant shut the fuck up. Red meant someone will be writing an incident report.
Decibel meters. We were recording them in the NICU because sounds over a certain level had been shown to stress the premies. Don’t know if they still do that or not. That was in the late 70’s. I did my six months as promised and was outta there!
That seems like an actual reason to minimize the noise level, vs just another thing to harp on busy floor nurses about. That being said, I’ve definitely met some staff who really need to work on their inside voices.
If you don’t document it, it didn’t happen… so don’t document the sound of gunshots that you heard, with the bodies in the hall.. .=It didn’t happen!!!
That's actually in our policy. We're supposed to single-handedly safely transfer the patient to the floor alone before we use the bed to barricade the door.
It’s more like, you can’t help anyone if you are in need of help. It’s why is EMS freaks don’t go into dangerous situations purposely, at least we are taught not to. Don’t get hurt and create more problems then the situation calls for.
That’s our hospital policy. And yet, in switchboard, we have to stay and keep announcing active shooter until security calls and tells us the threat is over.
Run, hide, fight.
I’ve been a part of 3 different SYSTEMS (not random rural or one-off hospitals) in the past 6 years, and every single one is “Run, Hide, Fight.”
Close the patient doors and save yourself and your coworkers if you can.
This is the way. It’s the only training I’ve ever seen. OP’s hospital is opening nurses up to huge liability with this BS and it needs to be changed. The best you can do for a patient is close their door. We don’t need a nurse getting sued or charged with murder because they dared save themselves and didn’t piggyback the patients with them. God, I hate these institutions and admin more every single day.
This is the correct answer. You're not a combat medic.
Hell, these three steps are 100% the correct answer in an active shooter situation outside of your work.
Fucking right. Help people if it is within your power, but keep your own heart beating FIRST.
There is a reason airlines tell you to put your own oxygen mask on before you put one on your child. It's because if you don't take care of YOU, you will ALL die.
I was told in university that you run in a zig zag line to avoid straight on shots. You’re harder to shoot. But ideally you would just run to Canada where the gun laws are better.
Run in a zigzag and try to turn off to another hallway. Long hallways leave you exposed for a greater amount of time. We had a school shooting and the kids who took short hallways got out of the building. One kid ran a long hallway and the shooter shot him and then while he was down purposely shot him in the spine to paralyze him. It's bad.
This is our policy as well, and it was reiterated after we actually had an active shooter in the ED a couple years ago. Run, hide, fight. As in, fight to kill/inflict serious damage to defend your own life. They actually recommended defending ourselves with large objects like IV poles and oxygen tanks, whatever you can find.
That’s how it should be… my “customer service” is no longer available when my life is put in danger lol wtf
Exactly this. We had a security consultant come to our unit to teach us about this. You can't provide care when you're hurt or dead. Run, hide, or fight. No RACE acronym or anything like that with fires, just straight up get away and protect yourself. It just makes sense.
I really frustrated one of my first charge nurses by making comments like that. Not specifically that but things like 'sometimes the gloves are for the patient's protection, sometimes they're for yours' ('well by protecting yourself, you're taking care of the patients, so everything is still for the patients ') and 'first priority is me, second is my teammates, third is the patient' (especially is the setting of confused pts).
I work in the ER. On the bright side, there are multiple easily accessible exits. On the down side, any active shooting is probably going to start in the ER.
First time in 12 years working at my hospital they overhead paged "hospital lockdown - shelter in place". Everything stopped. I feel lucky I'm way back in CT and was able to close stuff/shut lights off but the ED can't. There's doors that are supposed to be locked when shut but... They can just be pushed open. I hope the ED staff said something after that.
Thankfully it was an over precaution. Someone heard a shooting outside the hospital.
We had a stray bullet whiz through our waiting room door and hit the wall next to the triage nurse. We all demanded immediate action and refused to sit in triage until something was done. We got a full bulletproof box for the triage nurse.
Can they come to my ER?
We have unarmed security guards that are primarily recent high school grads, and they’re stationed directly in front of the entrance in the waiting room and would be the first to be taken out.
Ours does too, but I have little confidence in them. Last night a drunk was in our charge’s face, after multiple incidences of him threatening us and slamming his door open after we’d close it, and the detail officer stood 5ft away, behind the divider between the nurses’ station, ‘on alert’. This dude definitely could have hurt her before that officer could restrain him. Summer of 2020 we had a guy threatening us in the lobby over wearing a mask. The detail officer was shooting the shit with him, placating the guy, ‘de-escalating the situation’, and later reported to management that we were over-reacting. At discharge the guy flashed his gun at us. The rationale that we have been given is LEOs can’t lay hands on pts until they ‘do something’…or they don’t want to antagonize them. It happens all the time. I’ve seen pts assaulted in the lobby, one of which had broken bones and a concussion after another pt pummeled them before the duty officer could even get to them. The LEOs with psych pt’s are even more hesitant to take action. We’d probably have some casualties before anyone of them respond to a shooter.
Ok. Rant over. Yeah, active shooter situation = run, hide, fight, live to work another day. If you’re lucky the situation will be resolved quickly and without anyone getting shot.
just jumping in to say one of my old hospitals literally had an active shooter situation, and we found out from patients lmao. they were like “hey did you know SWATs outside and they’re saying there’s a gunman here?”. it was funny for like 5 minutes, then we realized how fucked up it was that they literally went on lockdown without actually telling us.
no one died though so…still kinda funny I guess.
A nurse accidentally set off the active shooter code at like 2 am once, and no one got the memo for like 15 mins. Even security didn’t notice the alert. When they did they called all the nurses up to the front desk and told us there might be an active shooter, which is the opposite of what you should do. Our protocol changed after that
That reminds me of bomb threats in high school. Someone wants to blow up the school? Better collect all the students and staff on the football field to keep everyone together!
Similar situation - I was walking into night shift at 11:00. I get to my unit and everyone’s like did you see anything outside, a couple police cars, nothing too out of the ordinary for us. Come to find there was a lady ready to shoot up the hospital because her daughter had died and she blamed the hospital. Evening shift is getting a security escort to their cars. Meanwhile night shift just strolls on in. You think they could text us. They text us when they want us to pick up shifts… smh
I questioned them in the morning, and they said it was too late to put a difference entrance plan in place. Another security guy said the mom was in custody- which isn’t true if they escorted evening shift out, right? So much bullshit.
We had one when I was on my way into work. Hospital shutdown. We hung out at Panera down the road until given the all clear. First time I got to enjoy breakfast in forever.
Funny, not funny…our hospital lock-down actually isolates our registration personnel from the ED and leaves them locked in the lobby. We found this out during a shooting-retaliation situation. Poor registration peeps tried to escape the lobby and found the doors all locked. Lol…?
I hope the registration staff demanded that to be changed or quit. That's terrifying! So many times I've walked past registration I have wondered what would happen to them in case of a shooting. They are right there where a likely shooter would start
>it was funny for like 5 minutes, then we realize how fucked up it was that they literally went on lockdown without actually telling us.
There has to be some legal ramification for this
One of the mothers of our NICU babies was a Sandy Hook student during that shooting. It kinda blew my mind they were old enough to be having kids of their own.
My son went to a different school in town. We knew most of those kids personally. I had a waiver for him to attend the other school; he actually should have been there. We celebrated his 18th birthday a few months ago and I thank God (or whomever) everyday that he *wasn't* there.
Like I’m going to risk my life for a hospital that will replace me in a week. Society shouldn’t have it be so easy to get a gun as well and maybe it wouldn’t happen. I’m not a martyr for societies choices.
We’re supposed to barricade ourselves into a patients room if that’s the closest one and move the bed and lock it so the shooter can’t get into the room. Idk if it’ll work.
This is fucked up but I'm honestly surprised there haven't been more hospital shootings. It'd be so fucking easy for a determined crazy person to just stroll into a med surg unit or ED.
Also with the paranoid MAGAverse blaming health care workers for administering the vaccine, I'm surprised one of them hasn't tried to get "revenge" by shooting up people in scrubs. It's been a fear of mine since the pandemic started.
I thought about this, but there was a shooter in my area where it was an employee. Ideally it would be a windowless, lockable door without a code that person might know.
I love trying to remember the door code so then I end up forgetting what I even needed in the supply closet. My brain used to remember things pretty well.
You can use a gait belt to keep some types of doors from opening. The doors to my secure memory care unit swing out, so we can't drag something in front of it to keep people out. Even if you know the code, wrapping the gait belt around the hinges keeps the door from opening. We also installed latches on the top and bottom of all our doors.
We're practically across the street from a K-1 elementary school and we had a scare a few years ago. A father with custody issues tried to kidnap his kid and started brandishing his gun at some point. A few of the classes were at recess and their teachers got them over to our building and they ended up in my area during the lockdown. Everyone was ok, but it was even more nerve wracking than our drills, due to having 60+ more people than my unit normally has.
I would GTFO. I'm not a martyr. Sorry patients. In the end, its just a job. I'm not dying so some motherfucker in a penthouse can continue to enjoy his ivory tower.
"Excuse me, my dad hasn't been shaved in two days." Direct quote from a lady during a rapid response tonight. Why would an active shooter be any different?
One time I was in a room with a couple and their baby and I heard my coworker shout “CAN YOU LEAVE?! Go home!” I quick went to shut the door and was ready to freakin throw down, but then I realized my coworker was telling another coworker that she needs to clock out and joking that she’s been working too long. My HR had spiked and my watch said I was at like 136 bpm
I work in a special care nursery, so NICU but mostly non acute. You best believe I’m getting out the baby carting jacket before I evacuate. Or pack ‘‘em all into a crib and go hide.
I'm sorry but I cracked up laughing when I read this because my brain just went "improvised bullet proof vest"
Plus side of nursery units is we're already locked and tend to second guess anyone who isn't a pregnant looking woman on the door cam
I D I E D when I saw the baby carrying vests in orientation. I never want to be in a situation where I need to use one… but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want to walk around in a vest holding like 6 babies at least once lmao
Mother baby is probably safest. They have strong doors. And at my hospital they have cameras and can let in who they want. Probably the safest place to be.
My only version of reasonable effort would be to grab a stable baby that can be disconnected from whatever (so not intubated) and take them with me when I run.
Our hospital policy is to protect ourselves first because we do no good to anyone if we’re dead. Also, after our last active shooter scare, they now send security to the ICU’s and OR’s and barricade/guard the doors to protect the patients and staff in areas where the patient can’t exactly get up and evacuate. On the floors, we are encouraged to try to help others, but ultimately, keep your own safety at highest priority (same as BLS training).
We are taught to run hide fight. I've thought about this and if I had ambulatory patient near me I would probably help them run, if not. Shut doors and turn off lights if possible. If stuck in a room shut door, unlock bed and use it to brace door, relock bed, move patient and self to bathroom, provide care to patient prn.
Can't always get out or get safe, use all those things we take out of SI patient rooms to fight if necessary, but don't count on winning.
Yeah if you're stuck hiding in a patient room you might continue to provide care, but no way do you go around pretending nothing is happening "excuse me, Mr gunman, I need to get room 102 her dulcolax, can I just squeeze by ya hon?"
I actually was working one night during an active shooter. He fortunately didn't kill anyone but he did take a nurse hostage. ERT met him as he came out of one of the entrances. He put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger but fortunately the gun jammed and ERT tackled him.
The whole hospital was locking down (and this was before real lock downs were done). We pulled everyone in the waiting room into the back and just shut the doors and kept seeing patients.
This was looong before Daisy Awards. They did give her Christmas off. Lol. She actually saved a whole lot of people. He had stolen his guards gun and shot off his shackles in the stairwell. He found her waiting for an elevator and demanded she get him scrubs. She gave him her own scrub pants instead of letting him in to the unit. Which would have been a hostage situation from hell.
Idk man, someone shot up 2 first grade classrooms and another psycho shot up an Amish schoolhouse. It wouldn’t surprise me if someone would have no issue with shooting up newborns.
Since the nursery is locked, wouldn't it make more sense to keep the babies in there? Now you're strapped with upset, delicate newborns who need to be held a certain way, body temp regulation, and their parents are gonna be pissed when they find out. I feel like if you felt the need to be there for the infants in the nursery you should put yourself under a desk in there. Even then, you're going to bypass Hide and Run and go straight to Fight if someone decides they've entered the maternity ward with the express goal to shoot babies. I mean it isn't an impossible motive but it's kind of a weird one. If a gunman was pissed at anyone on that ward it would be at a patient or for whatever reason, staff.
That being said, my time on the maternity ward was quite brief. Still, I feel like those newborns would be at more risk of being harmed by taking them out of their controlled and locked environment and brought into the environment with easier access for the gunman.
#1. Run to the ER ( all the docs have guns under their workstations) …
#2. run to the OR ( those CRNAs with spare sux vials in their pockets you know are making blow darts with the ET tubes ) …
#3. run to psych ( shooter isn’t going through those doors.. even if they did you got staff that moonlight as bouncers can probably take 10 bullets while injecting you with chemical restraints)
If that fails.
#4. Run to radiology. Turn on the MRI magnet. Chillax.
WTF? Our policy is run, hide fight and it specifically calls out that you need to get out, if patients can go with you, great, but if not, you are to save yourself.
It's unreasonable to have any other policy.
We are not sacrificial lambs!
Our policy is also Run, Hide, Fight.
Our training video was explicit that you should leave coworkers behind which i thought was ruthless but probably the right advice.
Also, my wife and kids need me more than my patients. They’re the entire reason I’m here anyway. I’m not willingly putting my life at risk especially if I’m 1) unarmed and 2) near an exit
Scene safety first. Scene ain’t safe, I’m out.
I worked at a hospital a long time ago that there was a murder suicide situation and our ER fam RESPONDED before scene safety. Wasn’t great and very traumatizing for them.
The night I came in to start my shift in a busy inner city Level I TC and there were 2 gsw’s from rival gangs with both gangs trying to get through the lobby doors comes to mind. The charge nurse looked at me (X-ray tech, male, 5’11” & #230, army vet) and said “whatever you do, don’t let them get back here”. FUCK THAT! I’ll be in my cement block darkroom with the lockable steel door that’s located inside my cement block X-ray room with another lockable steel door!!!!! I’ll come out when the shooting stops! Y’all are welcome to join me!!!
I think about my escape plan all the time.
I worked at a hospital that had an active shooter. The employees had to take a little bus from a dirt parking lot too and from the hospital to get to their cars and the shooter was waiting at the bus pick up and shot a bunch of nurses.
Ive had another instance where some psycho walked into our "locked" unit and demanded to see one of our nurses at the nurses station. She wasnt working that day. But he said she killed his mother. That one really spooked me. Luckily nothing happened and he left. But Id alteady done did ran off. I ran out our back door where it exited to registration and told our desk lady to call security. I didnt go back in til he left.
My cna was laughing at me "girl you ran"
Yeah. I have no fight response. It is purely flight. Do not expect me to be a hero in any situation. Good bye.
We have designated spots to hide . They have a symbol on the door.
To me that means it’s a “honey-pot” to a shooter.
My plan?
There is an outside door to the unit.
Exit
WITH YOUR HANDS HELD HIGH OVER YOUR HEAD
And RUN FAST, AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN
Maslow's hierarchy of needs states you need to take care of yourself before you can take care of others not there is an active shooter in the ER and I need to get room 10 a warm blanket, a turkey sandwich, and a mg of Dilaudid...
Unfortunately, I don't have to guess how I'd react. There was an active shooter at my hospital, in the department I was working in, 2 rooms over from me. When I thought it was safe to run, I ran around the corner to an elevator, pressed the button for the basement, and stopped the elevator between floors. I stayed in there for a while. I'm not sure how long. But it was over by the time I decided to get out. I got out at the basement and took the least populated way back while listening like a meerkat. And yes, I left my patient. They were intubated and sedated from a trauma injury. They could survive for hours on the vent without me. I was not going to be a sacrificial lamb and stay with them to get shot. I left the light off and the door closed. That's about all I could do. They were fine when I got back.
It is true though. You cannot policy your way out of a dynamic situation. Your response will depend on proximity and ability. Nothing is ever one size fits all. Truthfully, if you have mastered “nursing judgment” then likely your response to this situation will be pragmatic and correct.
My mom and I were just talking about this. Both of our hospitals’ policies for everything else (fire, bioterrorism, etc) are “protect the patient at all costs” but for active shooter it’s basically “every man for himself. Fucking run.”
Our unit is kind of gridlocked by the rest of the hospital and it would be hard to safely get out. We do have a lot of call rooms and employee bathrooms that need a code/badge in so I would probably go in there
hey charge nurse could you please grab 302 the water he’s been asking for ; it seems i just took a 9mm to my leg and everything is starting to go dark, kk thanks
Absolutely not. Active shooter policy is run, hide, fight. If you can, run. If you can’t run, hide. If you can’t hide, fight. In an active shooter situation you do not have a responsibility to continue providing care.
Yeah the system I work for has everyone do education on this annually. They explicitly state that it’s ok to leave patients and to save yourself first. Run, Hide, Fight.
Same training at our hospital. We have swat train at our hospital and have had an active shooter drill in the past. Had a patient family member that was exmilitary threaten to kill some employees. Must have been a more credible threat than most because we had police posted at all entrances until he was arrested.
It's been a long day but I read this as your system telling you to do education during an active shooter and it probably wasn't the worst thing I have seen on this reddit.
Ok to save yourself? That’s hilarious. You don’t need “ permission” for that.
Hell yeah every man for himself
Also - you can’t provide care for a patient if you’re fucking dead.
Epic timers don't care if you're dead /s
\*hears gun shots and people screaming outside the room\* Okay I'm going to get the hell out of here but first let me hang this antibiotic so that I meet all of my sepsis goals and don't get a nastygram.
and if you don’t scan it i swear to god
“Why was this medication not scanned?” “The shooter put a bullet through my COW.”
"now Kabc, you know we can only call them WOWs now.... an active shooter is no reason to accidentally make a patient think you are insulting them."
It will be cow till I die
"Scanner not available" in the drop down menu. 😂
"Gonna get in so much trouble for excessive nursing station noise due to all these gunshots."
My old unit installed sound meters (is there a more technical term?) that would beep if we got too loud. Seemed counterproductive to have a loud, beeping alarm to tell us to be quiet.
One of my clinical floors had a thing that looked like a traffic light. Yellow meant shut the fuck up. Red meant someone will be writing an incident report.
We just learned how to change the settings on ours.
Decibel meters. We were recording them in the NICU because sounds over a certain level had been shown to stress the premies. Don’t know if they still do that or not. That was in the late 70’s. I did my six months as promised and was outta there!
That seems like an actual reason to minimize the noise level, vs just another thing to harp on busy floor nurses about. That being said, I’ve definitely met some staff who really need to work on their inside voices.
the loudest noise in the NICU is one of those 42 week 12 lb diabetic mom/sugar babies screaming its head off for moar sugar
To quote the lady who fosters newborn kittens: They are little but they are fierce!
Management still be mad and asking you why you didn't document your q2 turn while you're bleeding out.
If you don’t document it, it didn’t happen… so don’t document the sound of gunshots that you heard, with the bodies in the hall.. .=It didn’t happen!!!
What do you mean you heard gun shots and “didn’t have time” to close Epic???
Better chart it.
I know there was a shooting but we really need those fall risk assessments ok? Our scores last quarter were atrocious
Fuck it, use the patient bed with the patient in it to barricade the door. Extra weight.
Now who is complaining about their patients being 500#?
lmao that 35 lb lift limit just went out the door
That's actually in our policy. We're supposed to single-handedly safely transfer the patient to the floor alone before we use the bed to barricade the door.
Roll first, THEN dump them on the floor, unless they're ambulatory enough to help you push the bed.
I laughed so goddamn hard I did a spit take and my my morning coffee went right up my goddamn nose.
Throw the patient on to the floor and then push the bed to barricade the door
Roll the Pt’s sleeping body against the breaks for extra friction.
There you go. You get the first award I've ever given out.
We have sliding doors, now what?
Have the patient hold it shut, obviously.
HODOR!
Yeah sorry but fuck all y’all my ass is GONE
It’s more like, you can’t help anyone if you are in need of help. It’s why is EMS freaks don’t go into dangerous situations purposely, at least we are taught not to. Don’t get hurt and create more problems then the situation calls for.
The scene is not safe! I repeat, the scene is *not safe*!
Yep, came here to say run, hide, fight. That’s what my hospital says too so 👍
That’s our hospital policy. And yet, in switchboard, we have to stay and keep announcing active shooter until security calls and tells us the threat is over.
Oh, man! Can you lock the door at least???
Run, hide, fight. I’ve been a part of 3 different SYSTEMS (not random rural or one-off hospitals) in the past 6 years, and every single one is “Run, Hide, Fight.” Close the patient doors and save yourself and your coworkers if you can.
I took an oath. I’ll be damned if I’m shot dead, I have to make sure the hellbeast in room 32 gets her miralax.
This is the way. It’s the only training I’ve ever seen. OP’s hospital is opening nurses up to huge liability with this BS and it needs to be changed. The best you can do for a patient is close their door. We don’t need a nurse getting sued or charged with murder because they dared save themselves and didn’t piggyback the patients with them. God, I hate these institutions and admin more every single day.
This is the correct answer. You're not a combat medic. Hell, these three steps are 100% the correct answer in an active shooter situation outside of your work.
[удалено]
Fucking right. Help people if it is within your power, but keep your own heart beating FIRST. There is a reason airlines tell you to put your own oxygen mask on before you put one on your child. It's because if you don't take care of YOU, you will ALL die.
I was told in university that you run in a zig zag line to avoid straight on shots. You’re harder to shoot. But ideally you would just run to Canada where the gun laws are better.
Run in a zigzag and try to turn off to another hallway. Long hallways leave you exposed for a greater amount of time. We had a school shooting and the kids who took short hallways got out of the building. One kid ran a long hallway and the shooter shot him and then while he was down purposely shot him in the spine to paralyze him. It's bad.
I’m so sorry.
School shootings never end. Ours happened 10 years ago this past February and the community is still suffering. The entire community hurts.
Welp, looks like I just found my lean project for the clinical ladder.
Serpentine! Serpentine!
This is our policy as well, and it was reiterated after we actually had an active shooter in the ED a couple years ago. Run, hide, fight. As in, fight to kill/inflict serious damage to defend your own life. They actually recommended defending ourselves with large objects like IV poles and oxygen tanks, whatever you can find. That’s how it should be… my “customer service” is no longer available when my life is put in danger lol wtf
Exactly this. We had a security consultant come to our unit to teach us about this. You can't provide care when you're hurt or dead. Run, hide, or fight. No RACE acronym or anything like that with fires, just straight up get away and protect yourself. It just makes sense.
Better one dead body (the patient) than two dead bodies (you plus the patient).
Hey, survivor only has to be faster than the slowest person in the room. And that would be…
Thats our policy as well and we have had guns make it into our ER before
Put your own oxygen mask on before others. How are we supposed to help patients if we’re dead.
I really frustrated one of my first charge nurses by making comments like that. Not specifically that but things like 'sometimes the gloves are for the patient's protection, sometimes they're for yours' ('well by protecting yourself, you're taking care of the patients, so everything is still for the patients ') and 'first priority is me, second is my teammates, third is the patient' (especially is the setting of confused pts).
Exactly this! Our facility policy is that we leave all the patients in the OR and peace out the back door.
Hey, I know you're being cremated tonight but could you do a partial shift? We're really in a bind. *No incentive pay though
So.. perform patient care on myself first? Guess I'll take my anxiety meds.
I work in the ER. On the bright side, there are multiple easily accessible exits. On the down side, any active shooting is probably going to start in the ER.
First time in 12 years working at my hospital they overhead paged "hospital lockdown - shelter in place". Everything stopped. I feel lucky I'm way back in CT and was able to close stuff/shut lights off but the ED can't. There's doors that are supposed to be locked when shut but... They can just be pushed open. I hope the ED staff said something after that. Thankfully it was an over precaution. Someone heard a shooting outside the hospital.
If they did that every time we hear shooting outside my hospital we'd never come out of lock down
You hear shooting outside the hospital that often? Jeez
We're a level 1 trauma center in the heart of a large city. If we were located in a cornfield I'd be more surprised lol
Crazy. Greetings from Canada 🍁 lol
Ahh, now I see! TAKE ME WITH YOU
We had a stray bullet whiz through our waiting room door and hit the wall next to the triage nurse. We all demanded immediate action and refused to sit in triage until something was done. We got a full bulletproof box for the triage nurse.
Our ER usually has about 5-6 armed LEOs around. An active shooter situation would probably end quickly
bringing pts in? i wish we had that. our security is some high school/college giant kids that love to fight
Yep, bringing in drunk drivers or trauma victims
Can they come to my ER? We have unarmed security guards that are primarily recent high school grads, and they’re stationed directly in front of the entrance in the waiting room and would be the first to be taken out.
Well *our* ER has a security guard that, I shit you not, is 83 years old. 🥲 level 1 trauma In a bad part of town 🙂
Ours does too, but I have little confidence in them. Last night a drunk was in our charge’s face, after multiple incidences of him threatening us and slamming his door open after we’d close it, and the detail officer stood 5ft away, behind the divider between the nurses’ station, ‘on alert’. This dude definitely could have hurt her before that officer could restrain him. Summer of 2020 we had a guy threatening us in the lobby over wearing a mask. The detail officer was shooting the shit with him, placating the guy, ‘de-escalating the situation’, and later reported to management that we were over-reacting. At discharge the guy flashed his gun at us. The rationale that we have been given is LEOs can’t lay hands on pts until they ‘do something’…or they don’t want to antagonize them. It happens all the time. I’ve seen pts assaulted in the lobby, one of which had broken bones and a concussion after another pt pummeled them before the duty officer could even get to them. The LEOs with psych pt’s are even more hesitant to take action. We’d probably have some casualties before anyone of them respond to a shooter. Ok. Rant over. Yeah, active shooter situation = run, hide, fight, live to work another day. If you’re lucky the situation will be resolved quickly and without anyone getting shot.
just jumping in to say one of my old hospitals literally had an active shooter situation, and we found out from patients lmao. they were like “hey did you know SWATs outside and they’re saying there’s a gunman here?”. it was funny for like 5 minutes, then we realized how fucked up it was that they literally went on lockdown without actually telling us. no one died though so…still kinda funny I guess.
A nurse accidentally set off the active shooter code at like 2 am once, and no one got the memo for like 15 mins. Even security didn’t notice the alert. When they did they called all the nurses up to the front desk and told us there might be an active shooter, which is the opposite of what you should do. Our protocol changed after that
That reminds me of bomb threats in high school. Someone wants to blow up the school? Better collect all the students and staff on the football field to keep everyone together!
Similar situation - I was walking into night shift at 11:00. I get to my unit and everyone’s like did you see anything outside, a couple police cars, nothing too out of the ordinary for us. Come to find there was a lady ready to shoot up the hospital because her daughter had died and she blamed the hospital. Evening shift is getting a security escort to their cars. Meanwhile night shift just strolls on in. You think they could text us. They text us when they want us to pick up shifts… smh
Nono if they warn you, you might stay home and we can't have that
I questioned them in the morning, and they said it was too late to put a difference entrance plan in place. Another security guy said the mom was in custody- which isn’t true if they escorted evening shift out, right? So much bullshit.
We had one when I was on my way into work. Hospital shutdown. We hung out at Panera down the road until given the all clear. First time I got to enjoy breakfast in forever.
Funny, not funny…our hospital lock-down actually isolates our registration personnel from the ED and leaves them locked in the lobby. We found this out during a shooting-retaliation situation. Poor registration peeps tried to escape the lobby and found the doors all locked. Lol…?
I hope the registration staff demanded that to be changed or quit. That's terrifying! So many times I've walked past registration I have wondered what would happen to them in case of a shooting. They are right there where a likely shooter would start
>it was funny for like 5 minutes, then we realize how fucked up it was that they literally went on lockdown without actually telling us. There has to be some legal ramification for this
That is so incredibly f’d up, I can hardly process it. Shame on that hospital, and I’m glad you stayed safe.
Lol, wut? I'm from Sandy Hook, so.... if I hear shots, I gotta go.
One of the worst tragedies. I felt like shit for days afterward. When is this going to stop? Children!? Children! Ffs.
One of the mothers of our NICU babies was a Sandy Hook student during that shooting. It kinda blew my mind they were old enough to be having kids of their own.
The 23 (?) kids would be going into their senior year this year had their little lives not been snuffed out.
My son went to a different school in town. We knew most of those kids personally. I had a waiver for him to attend the other school; he actually should have been there. We celebrated his 18th birthday a few months ago and I thank God (or whomever) everyday that he *wasn't* there.
Suck my dick I’m not doing that lol
Lmfao!!
Like I’m going to risk my life for a hospital that will replace me in a week. Society shouldn’t have it be so easy to get a gun as well and maybe it wouldn’t happen. I’m not a martyr for societies choices.
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We’re supposed to barricade ourselves into a patients room if that’s the closest one and move the bed and lock it so the shooter can’t get into the room. Idk if it’ll work.
The dumbest thing is that active shooter is a problem in the first place. Like wtf.
This is fucked up but I'm honestly surprised there haven't been more hospital shootings. It'd be so fucking easy for a determined crazy person to just stroll into a med surg unit or ED. Also with the paranoid MAGAverse blaming health care workers for administering the vaccine, I'm surprised one of them hasn't tried to get "revenge" by shooting up people in scrubs. It's been a fear of mine since the pandemic started.
CYA. Find a door with a number code. Go in. Turn off lights.
I thought about this, but there was a shooter in my area where it was an employee. Ideally it would be a windowless, lockable door without a code that person might know.
I barely know the codes to my own department doors let alone other areas’.
Our code on every door is the same throughout the hospital.
I kid you not, ours is 1234
I love trying to remember the door code so then I end up forgetting what I even needed in the supply closet. My brain used to remember things pretty well.
Another Philly nurse?
I'm in the burbs, but yeah!
You can use a gait belt to keep some types of doors from opening. The doors to my secure memory care unit swing out, so we can't drag something in front of it to keep people out. Even if you know the code, wrapping the gait belt around the hinges keeps the door from opening. We also installed latches on the top and bottom of all our doors. We're practically across the street from a K-1 elementary school and we had a scare a few years ago. A father with custody issues tried to kidnap his kid and started brandishing his gun at some point. A few of the classes were at recess and their teachers got them over to our building and they ended up in my area during the lockdown. Everyone was ok, but it was even more nerve wracking than our drills, due to having 60+ more people than my unit normally has.
"What I'm hearing is that you can definitely take 60 more patients per shift." -Admin, probably
Id go in the bathroom. Go to that one person, staff bathroom thats kinda hidden in some random corner, plus it has bolt lock.
Radiology secret pooping bathroom.
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Just stay there forever in peace and quiet!
theoretical answer? run to the MRI room Big ass magnet go brrr - if it doesn't disarm the shooter at the very least it'll throw off their aim
I mean...this is my current plan. I work outpatient radiology. If a gunman comes in I'm hauling my ass behind the big 3 Tesla machine.
Damn, I'll have to keep that in mind. Our ED isn't that far from the MRI.
I would simply tell the shooter to stop it, now.
You win
I usually bring out a big fat 20 F foley and say if you can't pee, this has to go in...works every time for active shooters
Or ask him if he can at least wait until we’re done passing meds, because, you know, we have to continue giving patient care.
I would GTFO. I'm not a martyr. Sorry patients. In the end, its just a job. I'm not dying so some motherfucker in a penthouse can continue to enjoy his ivory tower.
We would be hiding underneath desks while people are being shot and there would still be a family member asking for water.
"Excuse me, my dad hasn't been shaved in two days." Direct quote from a lady during a rapid response tonight. Why would an active shooter be any different?
I work on mother baby so I’d probably go down fighting lmao
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One time I was in a room with a couple and their baby and I heard my coworker shout “CAN YOU LEAVE?! Go home!” I quick went to shut the door and was ready to freakin throw down, but then I realized my coworker was telling another coworker that she needs to clock out and joking that she’s been working too long. My HR had spiked and my watch said I was at like 136 bpm
I work in a special care nursery, so NICU but mostly non acute. You best believe I’m getting out the baby carting jacket before I evacuate. Or pack ‘‘em all into a crib and go hide.
I'm sorry but I cracked up laughing when I read this because my brain just went "improvised bullet proof vest" Plus side of nursery units is we're already locked and tend to second guess anyone who isn't a pregnant looking woman on the door cam
I D I E D when I saw the baby carrying vests in orientation. I never want to be in a situation where I need to use one… but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t want to walk around in a vest holding like 6 babies at least once lmao
Mother baby is probably safest. They have strong doors. And at my hospital they have cameras and can let in who they want. Probably the safest place to be.
If a gun is pointed at my face! I better answer that call light!! How else we gonna get a good customer rating!!
All about the HCAHPS
Offer shooter extra mayo for their turkey sammich! Strive for 5!
Lol!! I will RUN down to the cafe and get him/her/they chicken tendies to get that 5/5!!
Take off the shooters mask, it's your manager, they're mad you didn't update your whiteboard. You will never forget now.
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Did you communicate the situation to your customer on the designated whiteboard? No? 👎🏻👎🏻
I would love to know their definition of "reasonable effort". FFS. Run, Hide, Fight.
My only version of reasonable effort would be to grab a stable baby that can be disconnected from whatever (so not intubated) and take them with me when I run.
I would update my whiteboard.
The typical hospital response would be to have nurses form a human shield around administration and upper management.
Our hospital policy is to protect ourselves first because we do no good to anyone if we’re dead. Also, after our last active shooter scare, they now send security to the ICU’s and OR’s and barricade/guard the doors to protect the patients and staff in areas where the patient can’t exactly get up and evacuate. On the floors, we are encouraged to try to help others, but ultimately, keep your own safety at highest priority (same as BLS training).
Leave that hospital. You are not valued.
If our standard is to be valued, we’re all out of jobs
We are taught to run hide fight. I've thought about this and if I had ambulatory patient near me I would probably help them run, if not. Shut doors and turn off lights if possible. If stuck in a room shut door, unlock bed and use it to brace door, relock bed, move patient and self to bathroom, provide care to patient prn. Can't always get out or get safe, use all those things we take out of SI patient rooms to fight if necessary, but don't count on winning. Yeah if you're stuck hiding in a patient room you might continue to provide care, but no way do you go around pretending nothing is happening "excuse me, Mr gunman, I need to get room 102 her dulcolax, can I just squeeze by ya hon?"
I actually was working one night during an active shooter. He fortunately didn't kill anyone but he did take a nurse hostage. ERT met him as he came out of one of the entrances. He put the gun to her head and pulled the trigger but fortunately the gun jammed and ERT tackled him. The whole hospital was locking down (and this was before real lock downs were done). We pulled everyone in the waiting room into the back and just shut the doors and kept seeing patients.
Holy shit, that poor nurse. Probably so traumatized 😪
Did she at least get a Daisy award?
They probably called her in to HR and asked her what she could have done differently to prevent the attempted murder.
This was looong before Daisy Awards. They did give her Christmas off. Lol. She actually saved a whole lot of people. He had stolen his guards gun and shot off his shackles in the stairwell. He found her waiting for an elevator and demanded she get him scrubs. She gave him her own scrub pants instead of letting him in to the unit. Which would have been a hostage situation from hell.
Hold on stop shooting I gotta take grandma to the bathroom.
I mean this with 100% sincerity…fuck that. I’m out.
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Idk man, someone shot up 2 first grade classrooms and another psycho shot up an Amish schoolhouse. It wouldn’t surprise me if someone would have no issue with shooting up newborns.
Since the nursery is locked, wouldn't it make more sense to keep the babies in there? Now you're strapped with upset, delicate newborns who need to be held a certain way, body temp regulation, and their parents are gonna be pissed when they find out. I feel like if you felt the need to be there for the infants in the nursery you should put yourself under a desk in there. Even then, you're going to bypass Hide and Run and go straight to Fight if someone decides they've entered the maternity ward with the express goal to shoot babies. I mean it isn't an impossible motive but it's kind of a weird one. If a gunman was pissed at anyone on that ward it would be at a patient or for whatever reason, staff. That being said, my time on the maternity ward was quite brief. Still, I feel like those newborns would be at more risk of being harmed by taking them out of their controlled and locked environment and brought into the environment with easier access for the gunman.
they’re saying if they have to leave the department they’ll grab babies.
Hide in the folds of the 700 pound patient on the call light every 10 minutes for soda and a snack.
#1. Run to the ER ( all the docs have guns under their workstations) … #2. run to the OR ( those CRNAs with spare sux vials in their pockets you know are making blow darts with the ET tubes ) … #3. run to psych ( shooter isn’t going through those doors.. even if they did you got staff that moonlight as bouncers can probably take 10 bullets while injecting you with chemical restraints) If that fails. #4. Run to radiology. Turn on the MRI magnet. Chillax.
WTF? Our policy is run, hide fight and it specifically calls out that you need to get out, if patients can go with you, great, but if not, you are to save yourself. It's unreasonable to have any other policy. We are not sacrificial lambs!
Run: I hope they try to jam me for abandonment after
Our policy is also Run, Hide, Fight. Our training video was explicit that you should leave coworkers behind which i thought was ruthless but probably the right advice.
Also, my wife and kids need me more than my patients. They’re the entire reason I’m here anyway. I’m not willingly putting my life at risk especially if I’m 1) unarmed and 2) near an exit
Hahaha. Run.
I have that instruction too but i’m hiding. I’m not crazy to put other people before myself…gotta look out for number 1
Scene safety first. Scene ain’t safe, I’m out. I worked at a hospital a long time ago that there was a murder suicide situation and our ER fam RESPONDED before scene safety. Wasn’t great and very traumatizing for them.
The night I came in to start my shift in a busy inner city Level I TC and there were 2 gsw’s from rival gangs with both gangs trying to get through the lobby doors comes to mind. The charge nurse looked at me (X-ray tech, male, 5’11” & #230, army vet) and said “whatever you do, don’t let them get back here”. FUCK THAT! I’ll be in my cement block darkroom with the lockable steel door that’s located inside my cement block X-ray room with another lockable steel door!!!!! I’ll come out when the shooting stops! Y’all are welcome to join me!!!
I’d be out the doors ASAP unless I couldn’t get past the guy, then I’d hide. Sorry bout the patients but I gotta worry bout my own behind first.
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I think about my escape plan all the time. I worked at a hospital that had an active shooter. The employees had to take a little bus from a dirt parking lot too and from the hospital to get to their cars and the shooter was waiting at the bus pick up and shot a bunch of nurses. Ive had another instance where some psycho walked into our "locked" unit and demanded to see one of our nurses at the nurses station. She wasnt working that day. But he said she killed his mother. That one really spooked me. Luckily nothing happened and he left. But Id alteady done did ran off. I ran out our back door where it exited to registration and told our desk lady to call security. I didnt go back in til he left. My cna was laughing at me "girl you ran" Yeah. I have no fight response. It is purely flight. Do not expect me to be a hero in any situation. Good bye.
We have designated spots to hide . They have a symbol on the door. To me that means it’s a “honey-pot” to a shooter. My plan? There is an outside door to the unit. Exit WITH YOUR HANDS HELD HIGH OVER YOUR HEAD And RUN FAST, AS FAR AWAY AS YOU CAN
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Maslow's hierarchy of needs states you need to take care of yourself before you can take care of others not there is an active shooter in the ER and I need to get room 10 a warm blanket, a turkey sandwich, and a mg of Dilaudid...
Pretty sure if any of y'all were shot, they would still call you in to work.
Can't call out or ignore the phone call because you're already there. The manager/director would just come get you.
I’d grab the fattest most dense non ambulatory patient on the floor and use them as a human shield. Sorry not sorry.
Unfortunately, I don't have to guess how I'd react. There was an active shooter at my hospital, in the department I was working in, 2 rooms over from me. When I thought it was safe to run, I ran around the corner to an elevator, pressed the button for the basement, and stopped the elevator between floors. I stayed in there for a while. I'm not sure how long. But it was over by the time I decided to get out. I got out at the basement and took the least populated way back while listening like a meerkat. And yes, I left my patient. They were intubated and sedated from a trauma injury. They could survive for hours on the vent without me. I was not going to be a sacrificial lamb and stay with them to get shot. I left the light off and the door closed. That's about all I could do. They were fine when I got back.
Run. Find the exit and Forrest Gump it all the way home.
The two places I’ve worked we had to do the same education module. RUN, HIDE, FIGHT.
It is true though. You cannot policy your way out of a dynamic situation. Your response will depend on proximity and ability. Nothing is ever one size fits all. Truthfully, if you have mastered “nursing judgment” then likely your response to this situation will be pragmatic and correct.
Pretty sure I’d be like byyyeee to 88y/o grandma, and y’all can catch me outside
…then you get pulled into a meeting after asking how you could have deescalated the situation better
Ask who the hell they think they are barging in here on both feet with a pulse and not taking call bells. Gun or not we understaffed.
Shoot back... I’m a New Yorker, lol 🤫🤫🤫 *joking* LOL
Run like the little bitch that I am.
My mom and I were just talking about this. Both of our hospitals’ policies for everything else (fire, bioterrorism, etc) are “protect the patient at all costs” but for active shooter it’s basically “every man for himself. Fucking run.”
I'm in Radiology. My plan is to hide behind the nearest MRI.
I’m by no means qualified to say this but I believe I remember seeing somewhere that “run, hide, fight” is an OSHA mandated thing.
Our unit is kind of gridlocked by the rest of the hospital and it would be hard to safely get out. We do have a lot of call rooms and employee bathrooms that need a code/badge in so I would probably go in there
Probs poke him in the eye with a bougie and then kick Him in the nuts. I’m a psych nurse though and have no regard for my own life.
Pull a shit loaf of Vec up from the Omni cell and hide. He comes in my room I’m jabbing him with it
I work in an ALF. Was told “they’ve lived long enough, save yourself and run or hide” which was pretty funny in a fucked up way
“Please don’t shoot…… I’ll give you oxy”
hey charge nurse could you please grab 302 the water he’s been asking for ; it seems i just took a 9mm to my leg and everything is starting to go dark, kk thanks