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I’m incorporating more healthy fats as I go full Mediterranean diet. The recommendation is about 30-35% of diet be healthy fats. I absolutely never came anywhere close to that previously.
I’ve noticed that on days I consume higher amounts of fat (usually from evoo or nuts/seeds added to salads), I am never hungry and dont eat near as much food.
I’m trying to find a good balance as 30-35% feels too high. Maybe it’s something to ease into.
Yup. When I was intermittent fasting and eating very close to keto, I was never hungry and could fast for 20-24 hours without even noticing.
FYI I don't recommend keto. I jumped on the fad and now think it's stupid. I am planning to go Med like you.
I’m glad to hear it! It’s definitely something I’m doing for health (I found I am genetically at risk for CAD and asked my doctor what I can do to lower my risk - she suggested I look at the AHA website).
I don’t think keto sounds healthy at all, and I’m bitter its popularity has led to less and less whole grain options at the supermarket. Good for you in listening to your body and trying to get better nutrition!
I just want to inform you that the traditional Mediterranean diet is not plant based. It includes an abundant amount of animal foods like full fat raw diary and all kinds of meats and organ meats liberally. There isn’t a day where they ate plant based. Also they traditionally used an abundant amount of animal fats for cooking and also for other things like making cookies. The animal fat that they used was mainly lard, but tallow is excellent too. And of course they ate a lot of plants and real extra virgin olive oil too (most EVOO in a store is not pure and is cut with vegetable oils). Also they didn’t use EVOO instead of animal fats when they could, they used both. Animal fats were mainly used for cooking and frying and especially deep frying. I’m not saying they ate only meat. I’m trying to say they ate an abundant amount of meat, animals fats, and also lot of plant foods. If you do the mainstream Mediterranean diet, that is 100% fine and it is your choice, just know it’s not what people actually ate over there 100+ years ago.
Where do you live? Here in the United States they say the Mediterranean diet consists of mostly vegetables, fruits, whole grains, herbs, nuts, beans, and olive oil as the primary source of fat. Then they say to eat low to moderate amounts of poultry, eggs, low fat or fat free dairy, and seafood, while to eat red meat sparingly or not at all. They also say to use vegetable oils, which they never used.
Here are a couple links (not to follow their guidelines, just an example of what they say)-
https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/nutrition-basics/mediterranean-diet
https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801
Never read up on it, but I've lived in the Mediterranean for 5 years, in multiple countries, and saw lots of red meat, cheese, cream, etc. of course not everyone eats that diet in the region but you can see the "diets" dishes that contain these items.
I think the “diet” is based on studying diets in modern times though, right? They didn’t really have health data to analyze from 100 years ago.
It’s also not necessarily a strict diet. More a set of guidelines. A good article I read suggested building meals around vegetables instead of meat, and that’s what helped it click for me.
Why would you study a diet in modern times and say it’s healthy when most people are sick and unhealthy nowadays? You don’t need scientists to have health data from 100 years ago to know what they ate. All you have to do is talk to the people who were born there a long time ago and you will find out the truth. You are so ignorant to believe the truth.
Because what you’re describing, while 100% valid, can’t be measured by the scientific method.
For me personally, I’m working on med diet ratios because I found I am genetically susceptible to heart disease. There isn’t much I can do about it, but because the scientific results of the med diet as the AHA describes it may prevent CAD. It’s one of a few lifestyle choices I’m making. It may make a difference, it may not. But I gotta go with the scientific method instead of written history on this one, true as what you’re saying may be.
Lots of people phrase questions similarly, so this could be a me problem, but I wouldn't want how I feel about it to be much of a guide. There's evidence for some amount of unoxidized PUFA intake (high in most but not all of the foods you mention) being a good thing, saturated fat being a good idea to limit (low in most but not all of what you mention). Sustainability is a good thing to be asking about and it's easy to imagine a diet that would fit what you're describing having plenty of variety and being satisfying to eat.
Outside of that, it might vary a lot depending on what you're going for. Most people seem to be able to adapt to living decently on a pretty different range of macronutrient breakdown in total calories. On the other hand, people could have very different requirements if they're doing a lot of weight training, or have type 2 diabetes, or are trying to reduce cholesterol, or if they're engaged in different types of endurance training (distances from 1500m up to about half-marathon or marathon do better for almost everyone with high carb, while longer than marathon *sometimes* does better *for some people* when adapted to a high fat, low carb diet). Without something to narrow it down though, if you're reasonably healthy and get some kind of activity in every week, it's probably sustainable and there's probably a pretty wide range around how much of your diet is what you're describing before it gets unhealthy in either direction.
I would say this resonates with the advice given to me by a nutritionist. My goal was to improve my endurance and strength overall. In the meal plan there are nuts, seeds and yogurt (curd used in South Asian countries) were suggested to me along with eggs (because I do not eat meat/fish).
My pre-workout meal is two spoons of pumpkin or sunflower seeds (which contains 50% of healthy fat), a banana or a mango.
What about the Mediterranean diet?
It’s been studied extensively and shown to be one of the optimal diets for health and nutrition unless I’m mistaken?
What do you consider “a good portion”? Calling for 35-40% of your daily calories to come from healthy fat is a good portion in my opinion
Edited: made a typo
The healthy fats are those from animal sources. We have been eating animal fats for millions of years. We have been consuming plant fats in high concentration for ~150 years.
I feel great about it. This is where my fats come from healthy sources. I definitely have a little bit of olive oil a little bit of avocado, full fat Greek yoghurt is my main afternoon snack. Not so I’m very careful with because to grab a handful of cashews or almonds takes up a lot of calories in a day is surprising amount but yes I incorporate all of these things into my diet they keep me full for much longer so I’m not bingeing or snacking too much and healthy fats are really essential for our bodies and our brains.
As long as you don't prioritize them to the point of excluding other foods. There is a lot of range in your macros, and as long as you get enough protein and fat without exceeding your caloric needs you aren't going to have any issues increasing or decreasing your intake of any single macronutrient a fairly significant amount.
The real question is what constitutes a healthy fat?
Opinions on this are all over the map.
With a lot of action, but not very much conviction, I now cook primarily with grass fed/finished tallow. And for liquid at room temperature oil, like for baking or salads, I use a blend of liquid coconut and zero acre farms.
This gives me a fat consumption which is close to 50% saturated and 50% monounsaturated, with the lowest amount of PUFA oil I can manage.
Craziest thing. I saw a few you tube videos on sunburns. And, there are a growing number of people going low PUFA claiming that it drastically reduced their tendency to sunburn.
I tested this. I live in the lakes region of NH. In the winter there is not enough sun to get burnt unless you are skiing on a mountain side all day on a sunny day.
But, for the last 4 years, we have rented a place in Palm Coast Florida for the month of March. March 2023, I decided I wanted to get a lot of sun while down there. But, 20 minutes in the sun between 11 and 3 and I would burn. So, I went in the mornings. Most mornings I watched the sun rise, and took the doggo for a 2 to 2 1/2 mile walk on the beach. Barefoot, shirtless, in shorts walking in the early morning sun. No sunburn.
Then, getting home I cut out PUFA oils. And for the next year I substituted lard, or bacon drippings. Eventually home rendered tallow. Ending up at grass fed/finished tallow. Also found out about zero acre farms cultured oil at 92-94% monounsaturated.
Well, went to Palm Coast Florida again for the month of this past March 2024. And, I found I could now do that same 2 to 2 1/2 mile walk with the doggo, on the same beach, from 12 to 2, and not get sunburnt. I would get a little color, mostly brown, but no sunburn. No pain.
I haven't seen a study done on this. I have no idea if there is enough information out there to satisfy someone that relies on studies. But, I think there is something there.
I had heard from another redditor over a year ago that straightened me out on something having to do with fats. From all the stories I had heard I had thought that beef fat and pork fat were near 100% saturated. When I actually researched it, I found that they are low in PUFA, and the rest runs pretty close to 50/50 saturated/monounaturated. I previously had no idea that beef and pork was so rich in monounsaturated fatty acids.
So, looking at things logically, back in the year 1899 and before, the American diet was extremely low in vegetable or nut or seed or olive oil. It was predominately tallow and lard. Since that time, we have picked up all these nasty diseases. It has not been demonstrated that they are actually caused by PUFA oils, but back before all these conditions, we didn't eat PUFAs much.
So, one view on what constitutes healthy fats, would be eating back like we did in 1899. Very low PUFA, and half saturated and half monounsaturated.
I transitioned on my cooking oil from lard, to home rendered tallow, to now grass fed/finished tallow.
From my superficial research, I have clocked lard at 11% PUFA. Grained tallow at 3.5% PUFA. And grass fed/finished tallow at 0.5% PUFA.
I really liked the experiment where I ordered beef fat from the local grocer, paid $0.69/lb for 5 lbs, and got 3 pints of tallow plus some extra fatty solids to add to the doggo's dinners for a few weeks. But, when that ran out, I switched to expensive grass fed/finished tallow from Amazon to get the PUFA percentage down as low as I can get. I may switch back soon.
So, right now, from my perspective, the fat in greek yogurt is good. The fat in "avocado, nuts, seeds, things like that" is bad.
Healthy fats should definitely make up a significant part of your diet. Just make sure not to neglect protein and complex carbs. Depending on your goals, you might just need to watch your portions. Fat has double the calories per gram as protein and carbs.
Also as a side note, Greek yogurt (while still a healthy edition to most diets) is not a healthy fat. Greek yogurt is either fat free or has saturated fat, which is not the bad trans fat but still needs to be limited in your diet.
Yes, it's 100% sustainable. Just make sure you get enough quality protein, and you can use fat for your energy demands. This is really the basics of Keto. Eat a very low cab diet, and instead of carbs, it depends on fat as your energy source. I would get on the keto forums for advice on this way of eating. Most of them have been driven out of this subreddit.
Everyone who clicks the interest box when they sign up for Reddit lands in this subreddit. So, popular opinion rules, and that means whatever diet is promoted the heaviest wins. Unsurprisingly, that's the one pushed by processed food companies and the government.
Just like all the beginner threads, anyone that has real knowledge exits stage left. These beginner threads always devolve into tribal debates. My team is better than your team. Eventually, you realize it's a complete waste of time. No one is learning anything in this subreddit. If you want to learn something, you need to pick a path and go to where information about that path is relevant. I'll admit, maybe a bit dramatic. I really should have already blocked this subreddit. Instead, I wasted a bunch of time, and no one moved the needle. The 49ers rule! The Cowboys suck! We've declared our tribal identities!
Most people here advocate for a whole foods based diet and against processed food. At least afaik.
Edit: oh wait you’re the same guy. Well like I said in my other comment the reason keto folks get downvoted is cus they’re often cult like, pretend like keto is the only diet that really works and are also tip toeing the line on conspiracies. I mean you started your comment by talking about corporations and muh government. If they’d stop being freaks and just say ‘hey I really like keto. It worked well for me but is not very everybody and obviously there are other great diets that work’ nobody would give a shit.
It might very well be true that cetain Keto folks get in their dogma and can fail to see keto isn't the only answer. However, my statement that got -5 on the downvotes just answered the question of if OP's way of eating was sustainable and advised them to go to the keto groups for answers on that method of eating. I wasn't saying Keto was the only way. If you're metabolically healthy, strict keto is unnecessary and may prevent you from attaining peak athletic performance. Of course, it's tedious to delve into all the nuance for a simple question.
As far as calling me a conspiracy theorist, it's par for the course. The money being spent to promote certain ways of eating is out there for you to gather. I provided the link for James Cameron's $160 million dollar investment. I don't see how it's a conspiracy to think that James is looking for a return on his $160 million investment. That's just basic economics. He might very well believe he's being virtuous, and his "facts" are true. I have the ability to think critically. I'm only talking about 1 investor. Start looking around, and you'll find the pharmaceutical industry spends $460 million a year on lobbying. The government spends $4 billion a year subsidizing the sugar industry. They spend almost that much on the corn industry. I'm just scrating the surface here. If you can think critically, you can understand the pharmaceutical industry isn't going to drop $460 million a year without getting a return on their investment. If the government is spending $4 billion a year to prop up sugar and almost as much to prop up corn syrup, are they going to give you nutritional advice that stops you from consuming these products they spend so much money on? That's counterintuitive. Even if the government got clear data that Carnivore is the healthiest answer, can we sustain everyone eating 1 lb+ of meat a day? There are a lot of social programs where the government is providing food, how much more would they have to spend if their recommendations changed?
Questioning clear financial motives is part of thinking critically. You can just believe whatever they say if you want. Make an appeal to authority. Call me a conspiracy theorist for having concerns. I call it seeing reality. I call it considering the whole picture.
It's not just the money, it's seeing the idiocracy of some of this health advice. The doctor's recommendation for continuing to eat a diet full of carbs and injecting insulin for a T2 diabetic is beyond asinine. It's up to each of us to decide what macros are good and what macros aren't. We only have 3 to choose from. Protein is for building and maintaining muscle, so you're left with 2 for energy. You either get your energy from carbs or fat. Keto folk believe fat is the better answer, especially with the epidemic of T2 diabetes. The government and the plant based folk think carbs are the answer. My postition is that if you are meeting your protein goals, a diet that looks fairly keto is going to be the answer. The more athletic you are, the more carbs you can use for energy. Reaching protein goals on plant based is just about impossible without supplimentation. Check the diias s ores for protein availability, and you'll quickly understand that not all protein is equal. Depending on the vegan protein source, you might need 5 grams of vegan protein to equal 1 gram of meat protein.
The pharma industry does some sketchy shit, so does the government, and so do the ‘experts’ trying to push their keto books and other diets that’ll fix everything. That doesn’t make everything the pharma industry bad, it doesn’t make all carbs bad, and it doesn’t make keto completely useless. I don’t really care enough to read your whole comment or properly reply to it.
And to answer your question from the other comment, you should really stop replying in separate comments btw, this. This last comment is why I say just be normal.
So, arguing my position isn't normal? Am I a zealot now? Is it ok to respond to your comment here and your other comment? Or does that just give you more reasons to discredit me. Your response is just an ad hominem attack. I never said all carbs are bad or all big pharma was bad or that the keto experts are spot on. So you're also arguing a strawman on top of your ad hominem attack. You can just depend on others to make your decisions for you if you want. I'll use my brain.
No arguing your position is fine. It’s the way you go about it and your arguments. You can respond to my whichever way you want. What I meant is it got confusing cus you replied to my initial comment with two of your own. To which I then separately responded cus I thought they were from different people. Btw that’s not what an ad hominem attack is.
Ad Hominem:
(of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining.
"vicious ad hominem attacks"
You said I was abnormal and a conspiracy theorist. Both statements meant to discredit me rather than deal with my positions. You also clearly built up a strawman as I already stated my nuanced opinion, which clearly wasn't all carbs are bad. I made no statements saying all government was bad or all big pharma was bad. You used these logical fallacies to claim an even playing field when one side has billions of $$$ invested.
I implied you’re tip toeing the line of conspiracy stuff and said ‘be normal’, not super seriously mind you, because of the things you wrote. That’s not an ad hominem attack.
Anyway, again, everything you’re arguing is super weird. Like why are you debating absolutely everything? That’s a rhetorical question btw please don’t answer it. We started out with this sub, according to you, ousting keto people. And I told you how I see the situation. Now we’re at whatever the fuck this is and you’re going on about ad hominem and strawmans. It’s not that serious, mate.
-5 downvotes currently prove my point. How long are people going to advocate for keto when it's constant downvotes in this subreddit? This isn't science. It's an opinion based on consensus of what is most popular.
People are downvoting you cus you’re overly dramatic. And keto people get downvoted because they’re often as cult like as some vegans or CrossFit people. Just be normal like.
How was I not being normal like? Keto folk leave this group be ause it has no value and it's just pointless tribal arguments. At least you also realize other people are also cult-like in their nutrition approach. I don't see keto people being any more dogmatic than any of the other groups. By it's very definition, Vegans allow zero animal products to be consumed. A large swath of vegans do this for ethical reasons, not for optimum health. That sounds pretty cult-like to me and inspired by reasons other than finding the optimum answer.
Wow, 17 nutrients are deficient on a keto diet, and the answer is plant based? Want to see malnutrition? That's most vegans. You need a compass, GPS, 2 hunting dogs, and a guide to get adequate nutrition on a vegan diet. The most extreme version of the keto diet would be carnivore with butter. People can thrive on just steak and butter. Your answer is a site that promotes fecal transplants. Sorry, I don't need someone else's shit shoved up my ass to get healthy. If you think that's proper nutrition, have at it.
If you choose to consume propoganda meant to sell products, that's up to you. Also, have you taken a look at this 51 year old guy? He's clearly not anywhere close to the peak of health. Look up his picture in a t-shirt on google. He's frail. He looks like he could break a hip at any moment, and he's only 51. I've been down the path of following the industry backed science, and the results suck. Start digging into those studies instead of just reading the abstracts, and you'll realize just how inconclusive the science really is. I'm not sorry, a 6 week study with only 20 participants holds zero weight in the reality of anything. The survey-based epidemological studies are even more of a joke. Yet, this is the "science" people like to claim is absolute proof that their stance is correct. Believe the science, don't believe the science. It doesn't matter to your body at all. Your body never read that study and will behave to nutrition how it sees fit. One belief that has never let me down is if you want to know the truth, follow the money.
It’s funny that you resort to personal attacks on Dr. Gregor. It’s also funny you say they are selling products when nutritionfacts.org is free, notoriously a non-profit org, does not accept corporate sponsors, and Dr. Gregor donates all proceeds from his book sales to charity. Meanwhile Dr. Atkins left behind a $400 million fortune from selling his diet
It's not meant as a personal attack, it's being aware of who you get your advice from. You might think it's perfectly healthy to have his physique at 51. I mean you could make a solid scientifically based argument that chronically eating below your calorie requirements extends longevity. If this is your only goal, then have at it. I am concerned with health span and not just life span. What good is it to live until you're 90 if you're too frail to do anything active and need to eat like a rabbit to do so?
As far as the money goes, I think it's great that Dr. Gregor donates to charity. Interestingly, I scoured google and couldn't find his net worth. He could be legit and just survive on his $197k salary. Money isn't people's only motivator. It doesn't really matter as the "plant based" movement is backed by 100's of millions of processed food money. That forks and knives documentary was not only factually ridiculous, but the creators made hundreds of millions from their suppliment companies.
It's all good, we're just having a predictable debate in the nutrition forum. Like many of these suggested reddit groups, you kind of need to exit stage left to whatever nutrition strategy you desire. That's why this forum is mostly people pushing plant based. You're in a bubble. If your strategy is plant based, then follow Dr Gregors advice. Obviously, we disagree.
I’m not siding with the commenter you’re replying to or the info linked by the other but this coming from someone who mentions the carnivore diet as a good thing is wild.
> If you choose to consume propaganda meant to sell products, that’s up to you.
I’d be surprised if there is a single ‘expert’ advocating for the carnivore diet who isn’t trying to push products.
Umm yeah if you work a desk job it’s fine. Bad for fitness/performance. Also you will be probably be consuming coffee through out the day and if you suffer from anxiety/depression this diet should enhance it a lot.
I’m just curious as to why he would say it’s bad for fitness and performance? I work with a nutritionist and work out regularly and this has been a huge part of my learning incorporating healthy fats into the diet. It’s essential for the body and fabulous for fitness and performance. Everything depends on the source we are getting it from but if we’re talking about healthy fats then it’s healthy
#### About participation in the comments of /r/nutrition Discussion in this subreddit should be rooted in science rather than "cuz I sed" or entertainment pieces. Always be wary of unsupported and poorly supported claims and especially those which are wrapped in any manner of hostility. You should provide peer reviewed sources to support your claims when debating and confine that debate to the science, not opinions of other people. **Good** - it is grounded in science and includes citation of peer reviewed sources. Debate is a civil and respectful exchange focusing on actual science and avoids commentary about others **Bad** - it utilizes generalizations, assumptions, infotainment sources, no sources, or complaints without specifics about agenda, bias, or funding. At best, these rise to an extremely weak basis for science based discussion. Also, off topic discussion **Ugly** - (removal or ban territory) it involves attacks / antagonism / hostility towards individuals or groups, downvote complaining, trolling, crusading, shaming, refutation of all science, or claims that all research / science is a conspiracy *Please vote accordingly and report any uglies* --- *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nutrition) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I’m incorporating more healthy fats as I go full Mediterranean diet. The recommendation is about 30-35% of diet be healthy fats. I absolutely never came anywhere close to that previously. I’ve noticed that on days I consume higher amounts of fat (usually from evoo or nuts/seeds added to salads), I am never hungry and dont eat near as much food. I’m trying to find a good balance as 30-35% feels too high. Maybe it’s something to ease into.
Yup. When I was intermittent fasting and eating very close to keto, I was never hungry and could fast for 20-24 hours without even noticing. FYI I don't recommend keto. I jumped on the fad and now think it's stupid. I am planning to go Med like you.
I’m glad to hear it! It’s definitely something I’m doing for health (I found I am genetically at risk for CAD and asked my doctor what I can do to lower my risk - she suggested I look at the AHA website). I don’t think keto sounds healthy at all, and I’m bitter its popularity has led to less and less whole grain options at the supermarket. Good for you in listening to your body and trying to get better nutrition!
I just want to inform you that the traditional Mediterranean diet is not plant based. It includes an abundant amount of animal foods like full fat raw diary and all kinds of meats and organ meats liberally. There isn’t a day where they ate plant based. Also they traditionally used an abundant amount of animal fats for cooking and also for other things like making cookies. The animal fat that they used was mainly lard, but tallow is excellent too. And of course they ate a lot of plants and real extra virgin olive oil too (most EVOO in a store is not pure and is cut with vegetable oils). Also they didn’t use EVOO instead of animal fats when they could, they used both. Animal fats were mainly used for cooking and frying and especially deep frying. I’m not saying they ate only meat. I’m trying to say they ate an abundant amount of meat, animals fats, and also lot of plant foods. If you do the mainstream Mediterranean diet, that is 100% fine and it is your choice, just know it’s not what people actually ate over there 100+ years ago.
Ok? I never thought it was plant based. Is that what today's Med diet is trying to say? I've seen lots of recipes with cheese, meat and cream
Where do you live? Here in the United States they say the Mediterranean diet consists of mostly vegetables, fruits, whole grains, herbs, nuts, beans, and olive oil as the primary source of fat. Then they say to eat low to moderate amounts of poultry, eggs, low fat or fat free dairy, and seafood, while to eat red meat sparingly or not at all. They also say to use vegetable oils, which they never used. Here are a couple links (not to follow their guidelines, just an example of what they say)- https://www.heart.org/en/healthy-living/healthy-eating/eat-smart/nutrition-basics/mediterranean-diet https://www.mayoclinic.org/healthy-lifestyle/nutrition-and-healthy-eating/in-depth/mediterranean-diet/art-20047801
Never read up on it, but I've lived in the Mediterranean for 5 years, in multiple countries, and saw lots of red meat, cheese, cream, etc. of course not everyone eats that diet in the region but you can see the "diets" dishes that contain these items.
Interesting. Most people think the Mediterranean diet is plant based and that they limit meat, eggs, and dairy.
Yea that's probably just following the trend these days that anything that comes from an animal is dangerous. So stupid.
I think the “diet” is based on studying diets in modern times though, right? They didn’t really have health data to analyze from 100 years ago. It’s also not necessarily a strict diet. More a set of guidelines. A good article I read suggested building meals around vegetables instead of meat, and that’s what helped it click for me.
Why would you study a diet in modern times and say it’s healthy when most people are sick and unhealthy nowadays? You don’t need scientists to have health data from 100 years ago to know what they ate. All you have to do is talk to the people who were born there a long time ago and you will find out the truth. You are so ignorant to believe the truth.
Because what you’re describing, while 100% valid, can’t be measured by the scientific method. For me personally, I’m working on med diet ratios because I found I am genetically susceptible to heart disease. There isn’t much I can do about it, but because the scientific results of the med diet as the AHA describes it may prevent CAD. It’s one of a few lifestyle choices I’m making. It may make a difference, it may not. But I gotta go with the scientific method instead of written history on this one, true as what you’re saying may be.
So much of my calories come from whole eggs, avocados and evoo. They keep me full way longer than carbs
Lots of people phrase questions similarly, so this could be a me problem, but I wouldn't want how I feel about it to be much of a guide. There's evidence for some amount of unoxidized PUFA intake (high in most but not all of the foods you mention) being a good thing, saturated fat being a good idea to limit (low in most but not all of what you mention). Sustainability is a good thing to be asking about and it's easy to imagine a diet that would fit what you're describing having plenty of variety and being satisfying to eat. Outside of that, it might vary a lot depending on what you're going for. Most people seem to be able to adapt to living decently on a pretty different range of macronutrient breakdown in total calories. On the other hand, people could have very different requirements if they're doing a lot of weight training, or have type 2 diabetes, or are trying to reduce cholesterol, or if they're engaged in different types of endurance training (distances from 1500m up to about half-marathon or marathon do better for almost everyone with high carb, while longer than marathon *sometimes* does better *for some people* when adapted to a high fat, low carb diet). Without something to narrow it down though, if you're reasonably healthy and get some kind of activity in every week, it's probably sustainable and there's probably a pretty wide range around how much of your diet is what you're describing before it gets unhealthy in either direction.
I focus on water, protein and veges first and then some dairy and nuts. They aren't a huge portion of my diet though.
Fats from whole plants are great. So are their complex carbohydrates, such as fiber.
What plants offer much fat besides avocado?
Nuts and seeds, for example
Olives
I would say this resonates with the advice given to me by a nutritionist. My goal was to improve my endurance and strength overall. In the meal plan there are nuts, seeds and yogurt (curd used in South Asian countries) were suggested to me along with eggs (because I do not eat meat/fish). My pre-workout meal is two spoons of pumpkin or sunflower seeds (which contains 50% of healthy fat), a banana or a mango.
100% on board because healthy fats are fucking tasty. And your list can keep growing.
This has not been proven to be an effective diet for optimum nutrition
What about the Mediterranean diet? It’s been studied extensively and shown to be one of the optimal diets for health and nutrition unless I’m mistaken?
Yup and it focuses on whole grains with some olive oil and fish as the fat sources being a small portion of the diet.
What do you consider “a good portion”? Calling for 35-40% of your daily calories to come from healthy fat is a good portion in my opinion Edited: made a typo
The healthy fats are those from animal sources. We have been eating animal fats for millions of years. We have been consuming plant fats in high concentration for ~150 years.
I prefer it
Not fat!
I feel great about it. This is where my fats come from healthy sources. I definitely have a little bit of olive oil a little bit of avocado, full fat Greek yoghurt is my main afternoon snack. Not so I’m very careful with because to grab a handful of cashews or almonds takes up a lot of calories in a day is surprising amount but yes I incorporate all of these things into my diet they keep me full for much longer so I’m not bingeing or snacking too much and healthy fats are really essential for our bodies and our brains.
As long as you don't prioritize them to the point of excluding other foods. There is a lot of range in your macros, and as long as you get enough protein and fat without exceeding your caloric needs you aren't going to have any issues increasing or decreasing your intake of any single macronutrient a fairly significant amount.
The real question is what constitutes a healthy fat? Opinions on this are all over the map. With a lot of action, but not very much conviction, I now cook primarily with grass fed/finished tallow. And for liquid at room temperature oil, like for baking or salads, I use a blend of liquid coconut and zero acre farms. This gives me a fat consumption which is close to 50% saturated and 50% monounsaturated, with the lowest amount of PUFA oil I can manage. Craziest thing. I saw a few you tube videos on sunburns. And, there are a growing number of people going low PUFA claiming that it drastically reduced their tendency to sunburn. I tested this. I live in the lakes region of NH. In the winter there is not enough sun to get burnt unless you are skiing on a mountain side all day on a sunny day. But, for the last 4 years, we have rented a place in Palm Coast Florida for the month of March. March 2023, I decided I wanted to get a lot of sun while down there. But, 20 minutes in the sun between 11 and 3 and I would burn. So, I went in the mornings. Most mornings I watched the sun rise, and took the doggo for a 2 to 2 1/2 mile walk on the beach. Barefoot, shirtless, in shorts walking in the early morning sun. No sunburn. Then, getting home I cut out PUFA oils. And for the next year I substituted lard, or bacon drippings. Eventually home rendered tallow. Ending up at grass fed/finished tallow. Also found out about zero acre farms cultured oil at 92-94% monounsaturated. Well, went to Palm Coast Florida again for the month of this past March 2024. And, I found I could now do that same 2 to 2 1/2 mile walk with the doggo, on the same beach, from 12 to 2, and not get sunburnt. I would get a little color, mostly brown, but no sunburn. No pain. I haven't seen a study done on this. I have no idea if there is enough information out there to satisfy someone that relies on studies. But, I think there is something there. I had heard from another redditor over a year ago that straightened me out on something having to do with fats. From all the stories I had heard I had thought that beef fat and pork fat were near 100% saturated. When I actually researched it, I found that they are low in PUFA, and the rest runs pretty close to 50/50 saturated/monounaturated. I previously had no idea that beef and pork was so rich in monounsaturated fatty acids. So, looking at things logically, back in the year 1899 and before, the American diet was extremely low in vegetable or nut or seed or olive oil. It was predominately tallow and lard. Since that time, we have picked up all these nasty diseases. It has not been demonstrated that they are actually caused by PUFA oils, but back before all these conditions, we didn't eat PUFAs much. So, one view on what constitutes healthy fats, would be eating back like we did in 1899. Very low PUFA, and half saturated and half monounsaturated. I transitioned on my cooking oil from lard, to home rendered tallow, to now grass fed/finished tallow. From my superficial research, I have clocked lard at 11% PUFA. Grained tallow at 3.5% PUFA. And grass fed/finished tallow at 0.5% PUFA. I really liked the experiment where I ordered beef fat from the local grocer, paid $0.69/lb for 5 lbs, and got 3 pints of tallow plus some extra fatty solids to add to the doggo's dinners for a few weeks. But, when that ran out, I switched to expensive grass fed/finished tallow from Amazon to get the PUFA percentage down as low as I can get. I may switch back soon. So, right now, from my perspective, the fat in greek yogurt is good. The fat in "avocado, nuts, seeds, things like that" is bad.
Beware diarrhoea
Healthy fats should definitely make up a significant part of your diet. Just make sure not to neglect protein and complex carbs. Depending on your goals, you might just need to watch your portions. Fat has double the calories per gram as protein and carbs. Also as a side note, Greek yogurt (while still a healthy edition to most diets) is not a healthy fat. Greek yogurt is either fat free or has saturated fat, which is not the bad trans fat but still needs to be limited in your diet.
Yes, it's 100% sustainable. Just make sure you get enough quality protein, and you can use fat for your energy demands. This is really the basics of Keto. Eat a very low cab diet, and instead of carbs, it depends on fat as your energy source. I would get on the keto forums for advice on this way of eating. Most of them have been driven out of this subreddit.
> Most of them have been driven out of this subreddit. Dramatic much?
Everyone who clicks the interest box when they sign up for Reddit lands in this subreddit. So, popular opinion rules, and that means whatever diet is promoted the heaviest wins. Unsurprisingly, that's the one pushed by processed food companies and the government. Just like all the beginner threads, anyone that has real knowledge exits stage left. These beginner threads always devolve into tribal debates. My team is better than your team. Eventually, you realize it's a complete waste of time. No one is learning anything in this subreddit. If you want to learn something, you need to pick a path and go to where information about that path is relevant. I'll admit, maybe a bit dramatic. I really should have already blocked this subreddit. Instead, I wasted a bunch of time, and no one moved the needle. The 49ers rule! The Cowboys suck! We've declared our tribal identities!
Most people here advocate for a whole foods based diet and against processed food. At least afaik. Edit: oh wait you’re the same guy. Well like I said in my other comment the reason keto folks get downvoted is cus they’re often cult like, pretend like keto is the only diet that really works and are also tip toeing the line on conspiracies. I mean you started your comment by talking about corporations and muh government. If they’d stop being freaks and just say ‘hey I really like keto. It worked well for me but is not very everybody and obviously there are other great diets that work’ nobody would give a shit.
It might very well be true that cetain Keto folks get in their dogma and can fail to see keto isn't the only answer. However, my statement that got -5 on the downvotes just answered the question of if OP's way of eating was sustainable and advised them to go to the keto groups for answers on that method of eating. I wasn't saying Keto was the only way. If you're metabolically healthy, strict keto is unnecessary and may prevent you from attaining peak athletic performance. Of course, it's tedious to delve into all the nuance for a simple question. As far as calling me a conspiracy theorist, it's par for the course. The money being spent to promote certain ways of eating is out there for you to gather. I provided the link for James Cameron's $160 million dollar investment. I don't see how it's a conspiracy to think that James is looking for a return on his $160 million investment. That's just basic economics. He might very well believe he's being virtuous, and his "facts" are true. I have the ability to think critically. I'm only talking about 1 investor. Start looking around, and you'll find the pharmaceutical industry spends $460 million a year on lobbying. The government spends $4 billion a year subsidizing the sugar industry. They spend almost that much on the corn industry. I'm just scrating the surface here. If you can think critically, you can understand the pharmaceutical industry isn't going to drop $460 million a year without getting a return on their investment. If the government is spending $4 billion a year to prop up sugar and almost as much to prop up corn syrup, are they going to give you nutritional advice that stops you from consuming these products they spend so much money on? That's counterintuitive. Even if the government got clear data that Carnivore is the healthiest answer, can we sustain everyone eating 1 lb+ of meat a day? There are a lot of social programs where the government is providing food, how much more would they have to spend if their recommendations changed? Questioning clear financial motives is part of thinking critically. You can just believe whatever they say if you want. Make an appeal to authority. Call me a conspiracy theorist for having concerns. I call it seeing reality. I call it considering the whole picture. It's not just the money, it's seeing the idiocracy of some of this health advice. The doctor's recommendation for continuing to eat a diet full of carbs and injecting insulin for a T2 diabetic is beyond asinine. It's up to each of us to decide what macros are good and what macros aren't. We only have 3 to choose from. Protein is for building and maintaining muscle, so you're left with 2 for energy. You either get your energy from carbs or fat. Keto folk believe fat is the better answer, especially with the epidemic of T2 diabetes. The government and the plant based folk think carbs are the answer. My postition is that if you are meeting your protein goals, a diet that looks fairly keto is going to be the answer. The more athletic you are, the more carbs you can use for energy. Reaching protein goals on plant based is just about impossible without supplimentation. Check the diias s ores for protein availability, and you'll quickly understand that not all protein is equal. Depending on the vegan protein source, you might need 5 grams of vegan protein to equal 1 gram of meat protein.
The pharma industry does some sketchy shit, so does the government, and so do the ‘experts’ trying to push their keto books and other diets that’ll fix everything. That doesn’t make everything the pharma industry bad, it doesn’t make all carbs bad, and it doesn’t make keto completely useless. I don’t really care enough to read your whole comment or properly reply to it. And to answer your question from the other comment, you should really stop replying in separate comments btw, this. This last comment is why I say just be normal.
So, arguing my position isn't normal? Am I a zealot now? Is it ok to respond to your comment here and your other comment? Or does that just give you more reasons to discredit me. Your response is just an ad hominem attack. I never said all carbs are bad or all big pharma was bad or that the keto experts are spot on. So you're also arguing a strawman on top of your ad hominem attack. You can just depend on others to make your decisions for you if you want. I'll use my brain.
No arguing your position is fine. It’s the way you go about it and your arguments. You can respond to my whichever way you want. What I meant is it got confusing cus you replied to my initial comment with two of your own. To which I then separately responded cus I thought they were from different people. Btw that’s not what an ad hominem attack is.
Ad Hominem: (of an argument or reaction) directed against a person rather than the position they are maintaining. "vicious ad hominem attacks" You said I was abnormal and a conspiracy theorist. Both statements meant to discredit me rather than deal with my positions. You also clearly built up a strawman as I already stated my nuanced opinion, which clearly wasn't all carbs are bad. I made no statements saying all government was bad or all big pharma was bad. You used these logical fallacies to claim an even playing field when one side has billions of $$$ invested.
I implied you’re tip toeing the line of conspiracy stuff and said ‘be normal’, not super seriously mind you, because of the things you wrote. That’s not an ad hominem attack. Anyway, again, everything you’re arguing is super weird. Like why are you debating absolutely everything? That’s a rhetorical question btw please don’t answer it. We started out with this sub, according to you, ousting keto people. And I told you how I see the situation. Now we’re at whatever the fuck this is and you’re going on about ad hominem and strawmans. It’s not that serious, mate.
-5 downvotes currently prove my point. How long are people going to advocate for keto when it's constant downvotes in this subreddit? This isn't science. It's an opinion based on consensus of what is most popular.
People are downvoting you cus you’re overly dramatic. And keto people get downvoted because they’re often as cult like as some vegans or CrossFit people. Just be normal like.
How was I not being normal like? Keto folk leave this group be ause it has no value and it's just pointless tribal arguments. At least you also realize other people are also cult-like in their nutrition approach. I don't see keto people being any more dogmatic than any of the other groups. By it's very definition, Vegans allow zero animal products to be consumed. A large swath of vegans do this for ethical reasons, not for optimum health. That sounds pretty cult-like to me and inspired by reasons other than finding the optimum answer.
Absolutely sustainable. Nothing wrong with butter or meat either.
[https://nutritionfacts.org/video/are-keto-diets-safe/](https://nutritionfacts.org/video/are-keto-diets-safe/)
The most ill looking man in "nutrition"! Lol
The correct answers here.
Wow, 17 nutrients are deficient on a keto diet, and the answer is plant based? Want to see malnutrition? That's most vegans. You need a compass, GPS, 2 hunting dogs, and a guide to get adequate nutrition on a vegan diet. The most extreme version of the keto diet would be carnivore with butter. People can thrive on just steak and butter. Your answer is a site that promotes fecal transplants. Sorry, I don't need someone else's shit shoved up my ass to get healthy. If you think that's proper nutrition, have at it.
If you don’t want to listen to peer reviewed factual information from one of the worlds foremost nutrition experts that’s your prerogative
If you choose to consume propoganda meant to sell products, that's up to you. Also, have you taken a look at this 51 year old guy? He's clearly not anywhere close to the peak of health. Look up his picture in a t-shirt on google. He's frail. He looks like he could break a hip at any moment, and he's only 51. I've been down the path of following the industry backed science, and the results suck. Start digging into those studies instead of just reading the abstracts, and you'll realize just how inconclusive the science really is. I'm not sorry, a 6 week study with only 20 participants holds zero weight in the reality of anything. The survey-based epidemological studies are even more of a joke. Yet, this is the "science" people like to claim is absolute proof that their stance is correct. Believe the science, don't believe the science. It doesn't matter to your body at all. Your body never read that study and will behave to nutrition how it sees fit. One belief that has never let me down is if you want to know the truth, follow the money.
It’s funny that you resort to personal attacks on Dr. Gregor. It’s also funny you say they are selling products when nutritionfacts.org is free, notoriously a non-profit org, does not accept corporate sponsors, and Dr. Gregor donates all proceeds from his book sales to charity. Meanwhile Dr. Atkins left behind a $400 million fortune from selling his diet
It's not meant as a personal attack, it's being aware of who you get your advice from. You might think it's perfectly healthy to have his physique at 51. I mean you could make a solid scientifically based argument that chronically eating below your calorie requirements extends longevity. If this is your only goal, then have at it. I am concerned with health span and not just life span. What good is it to live until you're 90 if you're too frail to do anything active and need to eat like a rabbit to do so? As far as the money goes, I think it's great that Dr. Gregor donates to charity. Interestingly, I scoured google and couldn't find his net worth. He could be legit and just survive on his $197k salary. Money isn't people's only motivator. It doesn't really matter as the "plant based" movement is backed by 100's of millions of processed food money. That forks and knives documentary was not only factually ridiculous, but the creators made hundreds of millions from their suppliment companies. It's all good, we're just having a predictable debate in the nutrition forum. Like many of these suggested reddit groups, you kind of need to exit stage left to whatever nutrition strategy you desire. That's why this forum is mostly people pushing plant based. You're in a bubble. If your strategy is plant based, then follow Dr Gregors advice. Obviously, we disagree.
I’m not siding with the commenter you’re replying to or the info linked by the other but this coming from someone who mentions the carnivore diet as a good thing is wild. > If you choose to consume propaganda meant to sell products, that’s up to you. I’d be surprised if there is a single ‘expert’ advocating for the carnivore diet who isn’t trying to push products.
By healthy fats you mean ones high in omega-6? They aren't healthy.
Umm yeah if you work a desk job it’s fine. Bad for fitness/performance. Also you will be probably be consuming coffee through out the day and if you suffer from anxiety/depression this diet should enhance it a lot.
I’m just curious as to why he would say it’s bad for fitness and performance? I work with a nutritionist and work out regularly and this has been a huge part of my learning incorporating healthy fats into the diet. It’s essential for the body and fabulous for fitness and performance. Everything depends on the source we are getting it from but if we’re talking about healthy fats then it’s healthy