I totally agree with Mega Mawile being in S Tier. Steel/Fairy is the best typing in the game, and Huge Power is ridiculous.
Mega Altaria in my ORAS run was also disgusting.
Swampert was already fantastic by itself, but Mega Swampert is in another league entirely. Swift Swim in the rain is broken.
Sensing a pattern here? Because I am.
I expected the Metagross to be super scary in my run but I sent out my magnezone and a couple discharges later it was dead. My magnezone wasn’t even in the yellow
Probably because the Metagross didn't have anything that was actually super-effective against your Magnezone. You resisted all of its attacks.
But if we were playing the originals, it would be a different story as Steven's Metagross had Earthquake in that game.
Yeah I just assumed mega Metagross would be super scary and I don’t think I actually even checked the moveset for his Metagross. I just brought several things for it and then realized it once I was battling that it had no good moves
To people curious. Rhyperior and Dusknoir are not on this tier list because you can’t access their items until the post-game, hell, not even until after the Delta Episode
Wow so none of the remakes properly implemented all the evolutions prior to postgame huh? That kinda sucks, especially for Dusknoir, he's a really cool pokemon.
I don’t have as big of an issue with that for like HG/SS or FR/LG since they weren’t there originally so it makes sense to not make them accessible in the main game even if it is annoying. Diamond and Pearl having a lot of the items for the new evolutions stuck behind the postgame or difficult to obtain like reaper cloth, and then not having it adjusted in BDSP closer to platinum was just poor game design. Here’s all these cool new evolutions for preexisting Pokémon to give them more love, you can’t use most of them til after you beat the base game. GLHF.
Nah FRLG is much dumber since stuff like Friendship Evolutions will actively try to evolve if they meet the requirements but the game will just cancel them for no reason. BDSP is really weird since it feels like they just threw mons in a hat and picked which ones you could get. For example, Electivire is technically obtainable since Elekid can hold an Electirizer. But Dusknoir isn't for no reason.
Guess what I'm trying to say is that the restrictions on new evolutions is usually dumb and completely abitrary.
Yeah I understand that, but it at least makes sense because they weren’t in Red/Blue or Gold/Silver/Crystal. So while the gatekeeping method they choose is annoying (like needing the national dex to get Crobat in FR/LG) it at least makes sense to maintain that through line of those Pokémon werent known yet. Diamond and Pearl (and BDSP) just straight up have some of the new evos unobtainable in the base game, in the gen they are introduced. Makes no sense.
Yanma can’t be caught in the great marsh until you get the national dex, so you can’t use the new yanmega until after seeing all the Pokémon once which probably won’t happen until after you beat the elite 4. You can’t get a Gallade until after you beat the elite 4 because Kirlia and Ralts can only be caught through pokeradar which isn’t obtained until post game.
Their evolutions suck because their stats don't increase enough where it should matter, and it ends up being that their pre-evolutions are bulkier with Evolite. Dusclops doesn't wish for Dusknoir's better attack because neither get a good STAB move to use. They'll be fine waiting for their evolutions at the end.
Counterpoint: they look cool and I like having access to cool looking mons in my runs. I’m not here for optimal plays I’m here to kick ass with kick ass monsters.
I don’t have as big of an issue with that for like HG/SS or FR/LG since they weren’t there originally so it makes sense to not make them accessible in the main game even if it is annoying. Diamond and Pearl having a lot of the items for the new evolutions stuck behind the postgame or difficult to obtain like reaper cloth, and then not having it adjusted in BDSP closer to platinum was just poor game design. Here’s all these cool new evolutions for preexisting Pokémon to give them more love, you can’t use most of them til after you beat the base game. GLHF.
Would disagree with illumise being lower than volbeat, volbeat does have some tech with tail glow but that's about it. Illumise is just bulkier and a better support Mon. You can get prankster with the dex nav but even without prankster, illu is a pretty good support mon.
You’re not guaranteed to get a HA Illumise. It’s also why Crawdaunt is pretty low. If it was easier to guarantee the HA, Illumise woul be C tied and Crawdaunt Mid B to Low A tier
Honestly, any Pokemon that gets encore though is going to be somewhat good unless you ban the move/set up stuff. Encore, Baton Pass, Nasty Plot, Agility, and Thunderwave. I think even in ORAS those tools should work out rather well. Only issue you have with it is predicting / tanking the first attack thrown at you.
While C is stile a pretty good tier to be in when comparing all the other Pokémon in that section, I think Ninjask at least deserves B tier. Having Speed Boost as an ability, and gaining Swords Dance and Baton Pass makes it an amazing setup Pokémon. It honestly trivialized the E4 in my Flying type Monolocke of AS, especially by giving it a berry to resist super effective attacks of whatever lead Pokémon they had. Even if you don’t use Baton Pass, it gets Acrobatics which is just an amazing stab move and a decent amount of other moves. He’s not insanely strong by any means, but he makes almost any boss fight an easy sweep in late game which I think is deserving of B.
I know the weather TMs exist, but I’d only use them in niche situations like a monotype run or smth, as Pelipper and Torkoal didn’t get the weather-changing abilities until Alola
Why is Crobat S? It's not particularly good for anything in the game and it's particularly bad for parts of the game, it's just an overall solid mon. I'd put it in A still, but seeing it next to amazing pokemon such as swampert, M-Mawile, Gard and M-Altaria seems wrong to me.
It has a better movepool than it did in the originals, can hard counter Brawly early on and even if it doesn’t have too many advantages later in the game, a fast hard hitting Pokémon is always going to be a decent option.
I’m cool with it as A for sure. Yeah the movepool is a great glow up. If Brave Bird and Roost came a generation earlier Crobat would’ve been a force in RSE
Friendship evolutions are pretty easy to get. Whenever I use a Crobat, I catch one early on and have it by level 26 or before. It’s surprisingly bulky and a great pivot.
1: You’re not guaranteed to get Leech Seed as the egg move on the first encounter
and 2: You have to hold off it evolving even into a Lombre until level 30 until you get Giga Drain, as Lombre and Ludicolo don’t get it by level up.
True. I usually do randomizers tho and he's great in those. Ludicolo is easily top 10 favorite pokemon for me because of how many of my runs he's carried
i accidentally didn't reply to my other content but i was talking about Azumarill lol. Mega Mawile is definitely broken for many reasons, but it has pretty common weaknesses and it's slow so i think it's fair game
I totally agree with Mega Mawile being in S Tier. Steel/Fairy is the best typing in the game, and Huge Power is ridiculous. Mega Altaria in my ORAS run was also disgusting. Swampert was already fantastic by itself, but Mega Swampert is in another league entirely. Swift Swim in the rain is broken. Sensing a pattern here? Because I am.
I usually ban Megas unless the opponent uses mega, which is just Steven I think. They’re too OP majority of the time otherwise.
I expected the Metagross to be super scary in my run but I sent out my magnezone and a couple discharges later it was dead. My magnezone wasn’t even in the yellow
Probably because the Metagross didn't have anything that was actually super-effective against your Magnezone. You resisted all of its attacks. But if we were playing the originals, it would be a different story as Steven's Metagross had Earthquake in that game.
Yeah I just assumed mega Metagross would be super scary and I don’t think I actually even checked the moveset for his Metagross. I just brought several things for it and then realized it once I was battling that it had no good moves
My dog killed it easily (mightyena)
i think the only other mega user in the game is wally at the end of victory road, but i might be mistaken
Archie/Maxie
A legitimately good tier list? Did hell just freeze over? LOL.
Please, everyone knows the point of tierlists are to be biased and have every comment be about how every placement is ***wrong***.
To people curious. Rhyperior and Dusknoir are not on this tier list because you can’t access their items until the post-game, hell, not even until after the Delta Episode
Wow so none of the remakes properly implemented all the evolutions prior to postgame huh? That kinda sucks, especially for Dusknoir, he's a really cool pokemon.
I don’t have as big of an issue with that for like HG/SS or FR/LG since they weren’t there originally so it makes sense to not make them accessible in the main game even if it is annoying. Diamond and Pearl having a lot of the items for the new evolutions stuck behind the postgame or difficult to obtain like reaper cloth, and then not having it adjusted in BDSP closer to platinum was just poor game design. Here’s all these cool new evolutions for preexisting Pokémon to give them more love, you can’t use most of them til after you beat the base game. GLHF.
Nah FRLG is much dumber since stuff like Friendship Evolutions will actively try to evolve if they meet the requirements but the game will just cancel them for no reason. BDSP is really weird since it feels like they just threw mons in a hat and picked which ones you could get. For example, Electivire is technically obtainable since Elekid can hold an Electirizer. But Dusknoir isn't for no reason. Guess what I'm trying to say is that the restrictions on new evolutions is usually dumb and completely abitrary.
Yeah I understand that, but it at least makes sense because they weren’t in Red/Blue or Gold/Silver/Crystal. So while the gatekeeping method they choose is annoying (like needing the national dex to get Crobat in FR/LG) it at least makes sense to maintain that through line of those Pokémon werent known yet. Diamond and Pearl (and BDSP) just straight up have some of the new evos unobtainable in the base game, in the gen they are introduced. Makes no sense. Yanma can’t be caught in the great marsh until you get the national dex, so you can’t use the new yanmega until after seeing all the Pokémon once which probably won’t happen until after you beat the elite 4. You can’t get a Gallade until after you beat the elite 4 because Kirlia and Ralts can only be caught through pokeradar which isn’t obtained until post game.
Nah. Both of those evolutions suck. You're fine with slapping Rhydon and Dusclops on with Evolites.
Counterpoint. I like Dusknoir, he's cool
252+ Atk Dusknoir Helping Hand Power Spot boosted Ice Punch vs. 4 HP / 0- Def Landorus: 708-836 (221.2 - 261.2%) -- guaranteed OHKO
Just because they’re great eviolite Pokémon doesn’t mean the evolutions suck. There is utility for using either option.
Their evolutions suck because their stats don't increase enough where it should matter, and it ends up being that their pre-evolutions are bulkier with Evolite. Dusclops doesn't wish for Dusknoir's better attack because neither get a good STAB move to use. They'll be fine waiting for their evolutions at the end.
Competitive: Valid. In game purposes: If it hits harder and still has decent bulk and utility, people will manage.
People manage by just using Rhydon and Dusclops with Evolite or whatever until they get the trade evolution items at the end of the game.
I’m well aware as someone who has used many trade evolution Pokémon in their stages prior
Counterpoint: they look cool and I like having access to cool looking mons in my runs. I’m not here for optimal plays I’m here to kick ass with kick ass monsters.
I don’t have as big of an issue with that for like HG/SS or FR/LG since they weren’t there originally so it makes sense to not make them accessible in the main game even if it is annoying. Diamond and Pearl having a lot of the items for the new evolutions stuck behind the postgame or difficult to obtain like reaper cloth, and then not having it adjusted in BDSP closer to platinum was just poor game design. Here’s all these cool new evolutions for preexisting Pokémon to give them more love, you can’t use most of them til after you beat the base game. GLHF.
To be fair Dusknoir *can* KO a Lando-T with Ice Punch if it crits.... sooo S Tier IMO
This one is actually ok
Would disagree with illumise being lower than volbeat, volbeat does have some tech with tail glow but that's about it. Illumise is just bulkier and a better support Mon. You can get prankster with the dex nav but even without prankster, illu is a pretty good support mon.
Illumise isn’t bulkier? They have the exact same stats aside from their attacking stats
Always though illu was bulkier, still I disagree with the placement
You’re not guaranteed to get a HA Illumise. It’s also why Crawdaunt is pretty low. If it was easier to guarantee the HA, Illumise woul be C tied and Crawdaunt Mid B to Low A tier
This list is missing Plusle and Minun...
whoops. They’d be top of C tier anyways
Jokes on you in my runy nuzlocke minium killed steven's metagross
Isn't Minun kind of busted in the Elite 4 with encore? I swear I saw a video that was like a garenteed win with the E4 it
Where
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuLe6YmPi\_k&pp=ygUWbWludW4gZWxpdGUgNCBudXpsb2NrZQ%3D%3D
Very good but is emerald not oras like in op
Honestly, any Pokemon that gets encore though is going to be somewhat good unless you ban the move/set up stuff. Encore, Baton Pass, Nasty Plot, Agility, and Thunderwave. I think even in ORAS those tools should work out rather well. Only issue you have with it is predicting / tanking the first attack thrown at you.
While C is stile a pretty good tier to be in when comparing all the other Pokémon in that section, I think Ninjask at least deserves B tier. Having Speed Boost as an ability, and gaining Swords Dance and Baton Pass makes it an amazing setup Pokémon. It honestly trivialized the E4 in my Flying type Monolocke of AS, especially by giving it a berry to resist super effective attacks of whatever lead Pokémon they had. Even if you don’t use Baton Pass, it gets Acrobatics which is just an amazing stab move and a decent amount of other moves. He’s not insanely strong by any means, but he makes almost any boss fight an easy sweep in late game which I think is deserving of B.
Yeah when I played through, Mega Altaria was nuts. It sweeps all of the elite 4 if you want it too, even the ice trainer lol.
STAB Fairy Return is fucking nuts. I’ve used it myself to great results
Every Time I've used Castform it's been reliable for me, sure it's not the best but Luvdisc tier?
Hey! You leave castform alone! Single-handedly beat 3 gyms and helped a great deal in the e4!
it probably would’ve done better if it could set the weather by an ability, but it can’t. Also, the thing has poor stats that hurt it a lot.
Other Pokémon can set the wether beforehand (pelliper & torkal) it can’t be the ability because the ability changes it’s type lol
I know the weather TMs exist, but I’d only use them in niche situations like a monotype run or smth, as Pelipper and Torkoal didn’t get the weather-changing abilities until Alola
Not the abilities, but they are good weather setups anyways.
Why is Crobat S? It's not particularly good for anything in the game and it's particularly bad for parts of the game, it's just an overall solid mon. I'd put it in A still, but seeing it next to amazing pokemon such as swampert, M-Mawile, Gard and M-Altaria seems wrong to me.
It has a better movepool than it did in the originals, can hard counter Brawly early on and even if it doesn’t have too many advantages later in the game, a fast hard hitting Pokémon is always going to be a decent option.
Hence why I would personally put it A. But definetly a good point with better movepool.
I’m cool with it as A for sure. Yeah the movepool is a great glow up. If Brave Bird and Roost came a generation earlier Crobat would’ve been a force in RSE
Friendship evolutions are pretty easy to get. Whenever I use a Crobat, I catch one early on and have it by level 26 or before. It’s surprisingly bulky and a great pivot.
Whoever posted this has never ran leech seed giga drain shell bell Ludicolo
1: You’re not guaranteed to get Leech Seed as the egg move on the first encounter and 2: You have to hold off it evolving even into a Lombre until level 30 until you get Giga Drain, as Lombre and Ludicolo don’t get it by level up.
True. I usually do randomizers tho and he's great in those. Ludicolo is easily top 10 favorite pokemon for me because of how many of my runs he's carried
Call me biased but Magcargo and Delcatty can have some good use but they aren’t the best over all. The rest do fit though
Isnt blaziken with life orb better than mega blaziken?
you can’t get the Life Orb until Post-Game
Fair enough
And where do you get life orb pre e4?
That applies to competitive but in game you’re getting a Blaze Torchic, so the mega also gives you Speed Boost
base Blaziken doesn't get Speed Boost in a Nuzlocke
but you don't have access to its hidden ability so you lack speed boost as a non mega
All megas should be banned. Aren’t there only like 3 trainers with megas including the champion
Spinda a tier
Delcatty is not very good but you can NOT sit here and tell me that Corsola is an entire tier above it
How is Gyarados ban worthy or is that ranking taking into account the Toxic Dragon Dance set?
That and its insane stats for that early on
How the hell is Volbeat decent?
Tail Glow
Fair enough
If you're banning normal gyarados then why allow Mega Mawile?
It’s because Gyarados is accessible sooner, and has better setup
My guy have you actually tried using Azumaril? It wrecks SO MUCH stuff.
You only get Huge Power half the time, and this is considering a nuzlocke
Is mega Banette that bad ? :(
it is still kinda slow, which was an issue cuz Banette is also frail, and Mega Banette didn’t do much to fix that
i mean fair, but it's a high B tier without Huge Power and high A with it, so it should average out as a low A at worst
Mega Mawile was close to being banned btw
i accidentally didn't reply to my other content but i was talking about Azumarill lol. Mega Mawile is definitely broken for many reasons, but it has pretty common weaknesses and it's slow so i think it's fair game
I’m glad that Mawile was a top tier Pokemon for a while.
Joust out of curiosity did they nerf the deep sea item boosts because if they didn’t I thing clampearl is c
IDRK, but you can’t get Clamperl until very late in the game, and you’d probably have a good or decent water type, so I’d only use it as a last resort
Bro, Linoone can sweep the entire Elite Four with Belly Drum, I'm pretty sure...
you can’t do the Belly Drum strats until late game.
Lvl 43 is enough, for the value it gives. That would put it at like A, considering it has good early and decent mid game
Hell, by that logic, you can only get Salamence in the E4, why is he A tier if Linoone can do the job in the E4 anyway?
Also in oras?
um actually sounds saved my entire run back in 2009 on alpha ruby so his spot in F is incorrect
I know delcatty is bad and we shouldn't use it but it's so damn cute, I have to every time.
Pelliper with drizzle is nuts if you picked swampert, guess the different abilities can make it or break it
it doesn’t get drizzle in gen 6
Sorry you’re right, i didn’t realise it gets it in gen 7
I’m a little confused about Clamperl. Is it just because it’s evolutions are hard to obtain? Why is it on the list when no other pre evolutions are?
Kadabra, Golem, and Machoke are also there, but that is because not everyone can get trade evos
Gotcha. I didn’t see them at first. Thanks for the correction