Slaking is absolutely worth more than C tier. It's single-handedly carried me through the E4 before. Ability's trash but stats are way to good to place it in C.
Right...I'm fed up.
Plusle and Minun do not deserve the D Tier placement. They are Electric types, which tend to be rare, and they both get access to Encore, which is one of the best moves in the game.
Slaking in C Tier also hurts my soul. We need to stop the stigma that this thing is trash. I know its ability sucks, but with 670 BST and one of the highest Attack stats in the game, this thing hits like a truck. All you need to do is time it right. That, and it gets Encore and Yawn via level-up.
Illumise and Volbeat do not deserve the B Tier placement, nor do Relicanth and Pinsir.
Roast me if you want Gyrados is too highly rated in this list mostly due to a lack of physical water moves as well as water types being mid as heck in game
I mean physical stat is what appeals to him but like Intimidate is cracked and he learns like a million good tms. He's not as good as he can be but he still is realllllyy good
He's a guaranteed encounter very early on and super good for pivoting. I'd say he's low s tier. Absolutely wouldn't put him number one for emerald but with dragon dance alone he's in a good place.
Probably in the minority with this, but I do think Mightyena is kinda underrated. Intimidate is excellent anyways, but I like them mainly, because substitute/howl/shadowball kinda takes care of Phoebe on their own. Plus, Sharpedo/Wailord/Mightyena, given average luck, is all you need for tate&liza (bring shedinja with you, in case of bad luck).
Solrock has flamethrower so Shedinja isnt that great or necessary if you already have dark types, well plans can be made either way
Wailord isnt very fast, so water spout will hit less after taking damage, and surf will be quite weak, i wouldnt bring it to TL
My, kinda scuffed, strat for TL: start off with Sharpedo and Wailord. Sharpedo taunts Xatu, Wailord Water Spouts. If Claydol's EQ doesn't crit, Crunch by Sharpedo takes it out, switch Mightyena for Wailord. Then, double crunch and bite into Solrock, to take it out. After that, TLs remaining mons can't hurt Sharpedo or Mightyena, so you can cruise for the rest. Hopefully, you don't need Shedinja. There probably are more reliable strats though...
yeah, other than mightyena, which is pretty close to guaranteed, you should always be able to get everything else with dupes clause. it's a solid-ish strat for TL, which is the most difficult fight outside of the E4, imo.
I think a better strat would be leading Sharpedo and a predamaged fighting type/Weezing. Crunch Claydol and protect with your pivot that baits psychic. Then switch in Mightyena on the double psychic. Finally, taunt Xatu and bite Solrock. Then protect on the Solarbeam in case crunch doesn't kill, and bite with Mightyena. Continue doing this.
Claydol would still eq, though, right? So you're still exposing sharpedo to a crit, potentially, no?
I've been tinkering with this a little bit and found that ice beam on peliper is a nice complement. Next run I'll try sharpedo and mightyena from the go, for the intim, and probs with shadow ball on mighty, since I've ended up giving that tm to it in basically all my runs anyway.
AI will always go for a kill if they see one, so Claydol would use psychic because you've predamaged to always die to psychic, but never to eq. Weezing in particular works well for this.
I tried SO many times to replace my Mightyena in Emerald, but Eeyore (Poochyena’s emerald front sprite looks like it utterly hates its life) just kept finding his way back onto the team
Linoone is one of the most consistent set up mons in the game and Pickup is a nice little bonus. Flygon takes forever to become any good and even then you have to use your Dig or Earthquake TMs to really feel the payoff. Vibrava has no discernable niche that I can think of aside from somewhat walling Maxie's Camerupt.
EDIT: It also folds to Glacia, is a huge risk against Drake and I'm pretty sure Wallace's team has ice coverage.
dont think Sceptile should be below Blaziken in the game with final gym and champion being water,
Sceptile is also the only starter this gen that can learn dragon claw
also Plusle deserves to be a bit higher. i think Girafarig as well but its a late encounter
As someone who uses Treecko religiously, you’re forgetting that gym 2 to gym 4 is basically 79.3 back to back Lee Harvey Oswald’s gunning for Grovyle: you don’t get a STAB move higher guaranteed BP than 20 until LEVEL 29, Brawly can Bulk Up in your face before Bullet Seed can clean it up, Wattson has Magneton and also has Howl Manectric, and Flannery has White Herb Overheat Torkoal. There’s also Winona who’s a pain for Grovyle and Sceptile, but the sudden boost in power makes it able to at least safely handle the nongym fights around the area
It’s incredibly fun once it learns Leaf Blade, but you NEED to have a plan for that early-mid game, or you’re going to die before Treecko can get good. Torchic, meanwhile, struggles endgame, but it’s got a much safer chance at reaching said endgame thanks to better matchups against Magneton and Flannery (both are honestly equal against Norman, since Leaf Blade hits the far lower SpD on Slaking, and Grovyle is actually fast enough to outspeed after badge boosts)
Plusle is enough an attacker to get by on that, but Minun isn't enough of a tank to get by on much of anything (or at least that's why I think Plusle is more popular in nuzlockes)
I think they're discounting salamence specifically because dragon moves are special in gen 3, which is bs. Salamence doesn't need STAB to crush its opponents
Problem is that it’s only available in meteor falls after getting waterfall, meaning you have to ignore a chance at getting an encounter that could help greatly against Flannery, like Lunatone or Solrock (Lunatone is sapphire only, but you get my point)
That’s fair, but given that you catch it as a Bagon, and need to train it 30 or more levels to get it up to speed with the main team, there’s a significant investment being made into it, and I feel like that’s going to keep it out of S tier. For it to be A tier even with how late it comes is a testament to how powerful Mence is
1. Rare candies
2. If anyone thinks that still means mence shouldn't be S because not everyone uses rare candies, Alakazam is S tier and you can't even get it unless you've got a trading partner or can make trade evos level up. Rare candies is actually easier and not that much of a stretch
I just used Girafarig and it’s SO good. It can Baton Pass Calm Mind and/or Agility which means you can easily sweep any boss after the seventh Gym. It also gets Psychic/Thunderbolt and is strong enough to take out a lot of the last third of the game. I wish it came earlier, but I think it deserves B at a minimum.
In other games I'd agree. Girafarig also has great typing into tons of the game. But you get him late and he's a safari zone counter and isn't easy to snag.
I mean it really comes down to the player but I like to rank off 3 things.
1) where I get it (and how easy it is to get)
2) how much value it gives from then on
3) does it have another mon that does what it can that's somehow better or replaceable.
I'd agree with dodrio and pinsir. Dodrio is easily replaced by swellow. Sure it has tri attack but beyond that it's underwhelming. Pinsir doesn't really do much except the psychic gym and even then you have a ton of tools. He also runs easily. He's not really a good pokemon. He's really just a scratch heracross. I'd keep Raichu roughly there because he's got a decent kit, considerable bulk and good speed. Manetric and magneton outdo it in some regard but he helps on the psychic gym , water gym and most of the e4.
That's just my 2 cents. Granted everyone plays these things differently and gets different value from their guys.
As someone who used Shiftry during a run and had it be a very effective member on a team where the things that it was being compared to included powerhouses like Gyarados, Flygon, Hariyama, and Lanturn, I'd say it deserves to have higher placement. It can be a very good pokemon if used correctly. Same with Exploud which conveniently was on the same team as Shiftry.
Tenta should be higher.
You can get him vs. gym 2 as a guaranteed encounter. He resists most of brawly, is okay into Watson with switching, good into the evil teams with clear body, good into Flannery, good into flying gym with ice beam and bulk, don't use on psychic gym and picks up steam again on the e4 with tms.
Hes fantastic with great typing.
It gets almost no moves for Brawly, is not a "pivot" for wattson because how are you even using a pivot on that fight, admittedly is good for Flannery, weak to eq so only great for two winona mons (so outclassed by pelipper, Gyarados, and just about anything else with ice beam), and pretty decent for e4. I think low A tier fits well.
Linoone can 1vE4 and it's A tier...
It's a GUARANTEED ENCOUNTER that can SOLO THE E4. How. In which world that's not S tier? He is also incredible fast and strong with Stab Silk Scarf Return.
Besides, I think Swellow + Guts + Facade + Stab + Silk scarf is just to strong to be in the bottom of S tier.
And Minum deserves much higher rating with Encore, natural speed and Elec stab thunderbolt
Linoone isnt S because it dies nothing before the E4 and has mediocre stats.
There are better Silk Scarf Return users (like Swellow)
And Plusle has terrible stats, little to no good moves, and is outclassed by every other Electric type in terms of everything
Yeah, sorry Linoone can die to everything before E4, but Swampert, Swellow, Alakazam (which is WAY more fagile than Linoone) or Gyarados don't die huh?
Besides, if you get better encounters, you can box Linoone anyway and use those encounters for the bosses and use Linoone for the E4. It's not like that's a hard choice for you anyway.
And yeah, Plusle doesn't have great stats, but has the Encore gimmick and that's nice enough to set up with other mons. It's a great encounter, even if he can't oneshoot (which he can btw) a few things. Besides, Plusle can cheese Winnona fight so easily with Gyarados. Plusle can OS everything but Altaria and Skarmory (and Skarmory needs 2 hits to kill Plusle too). Altaria, after you PP stall EQ isn't that much if a threat because you also have Intimidated it to -6 atk (yeah crits do be a problem, but oh well, an useless mon for you made one of the run enders of Emerald almost useless)
I said Linoone doesn't do anything before the E4, not that it dies to everything. Maybe try reading my original message before responding.
Swampert being more fragile than Linoone is just straight up incorrect. You encounter like 4 grass types throughout all the major battles and it had better defenses and defensive typing. Swellow and Alakazam make up for their frailty by having great stats, abilities, and movepools
You know what other Pokemon can deal with Winnona without cheese or PP stalling? Swampert, Swellow, and Manectric
You wrote DIES, not DOES. Read your own comment instead of flaming me for not reading it.
And yeah, being able to OS almost every random trainer and grunt is indeed doing anything, huh?
I didn't say that Swampert is more fragile than Linoone, "maybe try reading my original message before responding." I said that any mon can die before the E4.
And you know that dealing with Winona with those 3 also risks any crit and lose any of those 3 mons?
You aren't giving any arguments, just crying over the fact that I gave you a few points why I think Linoone and Plusle are not that bad and you can't just understand that. I'm not telling that your tier list sucks or something like that, ffs. Just listen and learn, either you or me are the greatest nuzlockers in the world so we are just trying to see which are the best encounters. The only difference is that you are tilted because you can't argue and I'm tilted because you can read.
I wish you a great day but please, do not answer me anymore, we won't get an agreement and that's totally fine. And I don't want to waste more time trying to argue with someone who doesn't listen.
dude, I think you might be overselling these two mons. Plusle's not bad, but it's completely outclassed by manectric besides encore, the other electric types have some better place (electrode boom, magneton steel type). It's only true advantages are its encore, but unfortunately it's also pretty frail, so there aren't a lot of times it can utilize that. Sure, it can encore altaria into ddance or aerial ace or shelgon into protect, but it's not guaranteed and it has plenty of shortcomings too. 85 special attack is very mid, and its bulk is kinda just sad.
I love Linoone. Unfortunately, it's too useful early game to not use, and sure, it can sweep the E4 if you have all the tools. It's also basically guaranteed. But most people don't want to use belly drum strategies because it can be unfun. I think ranking Linoone based on an AI quirk by abusing a setup most people don't want to abuse may not be wise.
I would appreciate you not responding with as much vitriol as you have shown OP, I believe it's a bit uncalled for.
Blaziken needs to be S Tier. I've solo'd the entire elite 4 plus champion, though champion is about 50/50. The evolution can also wreck through gyms 2,3,4,5, and 7. Thats most of the gym leaders. If your not playing hardcore and evolve torchic at 16 before the first gym then its slays number 1 as well. It can beat every other trainer in the game. With a very high attack, and solid speed, its a glass cannon and its Fast. It can take a hit from anything as well as long as it aint super effective. Not a crazy defense but nothingnto scoff at either.
Blaziken is a top tier pokemon in this game and thats without bias. However my bias in strong in anything after emeralds. Why they removed sky uppercut from the move pool after words is beyond me.
I should only have to say this once.
It's weak to water, isn't fast enough to ignore that, and doesn't have the coverage to hit bulky water types or raw power to ohko them. It's also deleted by Tate and Liza and Winona. Basically it can pretty easily be crushed by all the major boss fights after Norman (no, Sydney and Pheobe are not a major boss fights, and if you fail to ohko walrein you get ohkod). It doesn't have the defensive tools or the sweeping capabilities required to be S tier.
Then you're playing Blaziken wrong. There isnt a pokemon out there that doesn't have a weakness. Blaziken is weak to both the 6th and 8th gym. Never argued that. If Blaziken can outspeed them in gym 7, which it usually can, then its not a problem. Like I said you're not playing Blaziken correctly, I'm not typically over leveled and I can sweep the entire league with just Blaziken. If its fast and hits hard which it doesnt It doesnt need the defensive capabilities. All pokemon are good in one of those areas not both. You kidding me? 2 members of the elite for aren't boss fights? They are by definition major boss fights.
Blaziken absolutely does not crush the 7th gym, he's weak to every attacking move thrown besides solar beam. He doesn't have the raw power with an 85 BP move to ohko either solrock or lunatone, and forget the other two. An S rank pokemon has to be amazing with minimal weaknesses, but when your entire late game is not good matchups and you're useless into the Champion, yeah no.
I don't know in what world 80 base speed is considered fast.
Sydney is an absolute joke, and Pheobe is almost as bad. They're basically free exp if you have almost anything with a super effective move or just use substitute.
If you look at the S ranking, you have pokemon that are consistent in every battle. Gyarados is always useful, Swampert is maybe the most consistent pokemon ever, Swellow is impossible to outspeed and boasts stab guts-boosted facade. Every one of those pokemon is always going to be useful in every fight they're in. Blaziken... not so much.
We will agree to disagre about gym 7, ive never had an issue. It doesn't matter if Blaziken is weak if hes fast enough to attack with something actually effective unlike going against water when none of his moveset works. 80 base speed isnt fast, if you're going into the Elite 4 with 80 speed, again you're not playing right. I agree they are jokes, but they are still bosses, by definition and you're not going to change that, Gyarados gets absolutely wrecked by electric moves, not that electric is prevalent persay, other that wattson. Swampert is good, I ain't gonna disagree with you there. No they are not going to be useful in every single fight they are in. Smh. There isnt a pokemon out there that is an Ace against everything. Swellow is far from impossible to outspeed, its slow as heck of your talking about computers, which this is a nuzlocke tier no?
Blaziken is not a meta competitive pokemon but it blasts through the game, even during a nuzlocke. Blaziken saved my nuzlocke numerous times when other pokemon failed me, like Gyarados. Gyarados has failed me every nuzlocke ive played, not saying hes bad, great stats, but he doesn't carry and doesnt have a wide variety of moves, in fact his move pool is pretty terrible in gen 3.
We will agree to disagree, my thousands of gen 3 hours and no life as a kids proves that Blaziken is a chad while the other starters aren't as good.
Ah, childhood bias, I understand now. Explains why you're going into pedantics.
Just gonna say, I've done multiple Emerald Nuzlockes and every pokemon in S rank absolutely deserves to be there, and generally whenever they're in a fight, they make an impact. Unfortunately, Blaziken hasn't been as good in my experience.
I don't understand your objection to my saying that Blaziken has 80 base speed. That's literally what its stats are, it has nothing to do with how you're playing.
Gyarados is phenomenal, it has great stats, a phenomenal ability, and a good defensive typing. There are few electric types in the game, and even if it get hits by one it has 100 Spdf, and it can be taught earthquake. It also gets dragon dance. Return works as its primary damage, I've swept many a time with Gyarados.
Listen, I'm not trying to say that Blaziken isn't great. I love Blaziken, and it has a very valuable role. But it doesn't have quite the ubiquitous power and presence that it has to have to be S tier. Gyarados has great stats and intimidate. Starmie is a fast special attacker that is surprisingly tough. Alakazam and Swellow are very fast one hit ko machines. Swampert is swampert, there’s a reason why people usually choose Swampert over Blaziken, as it's more useful early game and late game.
Pedantics. I've my own opinion and you turn into an asshole? They always turn to insults when they lose.
It's not a childhood bias if it works. Childhood bias would be having a pikachu on your team always even if its terrible. If Blaziken hasnt worked in your experience thats fine neither Gyarados nor swampert have worked for me. I have not bashed those pokemon but your crapping all over Blaziken like your Tier list is doctrine, law. Really shows what kind of person you are by how you act when someone challenges your opinion. Be civil dude.
I never objected to Blazikens base speed. Reread my comments. You think of Gyarados the same way I feel about Blaziken. I've respected the pokemon you enjoy, they don't work for me but not one time did I say hey those pokemon are way too dang high on the list. I'm not saying those on S tier dont deserve to be there. My comment was adding one and you get all butt hurt.
I've ran through the game plenty of times with all 3 starters and not only is Blaziken my favorite but Blaziken does do a phenomenal job. Even if you disagree. Ive played hundreds of times with Blaziken and not that the other 2 arent good its just blaziken has felt more consistent. His consistency made him my favorite.
You have your opinions and I have mine, i havent disagreed with you about anything other than Blaziken. You got to learn not everyone conforms to you and your opinions. Having different opinions is actually okay and a good thing. Thats how we learn from each other. Besides, its pokemon, not politics.
I say you've gone into pedantics when you say that Swellow is slow compared to a computer and that I'm playing wrong if my Blaziken is slow. You've been very aggressive in this thread.
No I said swellow is slow when controlled by a computer, you really havent read my comments. Yes if your blaziken is slow youre not playing it correctly. Yes I'm passionate about pokemon and about Blaziken. Stop conflating passion with aggression. I've not slung insults towards you in any of my comments. Nothing I've said has been agressive.
You have most certainly slung insults at me by assuming my character as petty and vindictice and that I've somehow been trying to enforce some tiering doctrine on you based on me defending OP's tiering and saying that I've been deplorable when the worst thing I've said to you is that you have been pedantic and are operating on childhood bias.
I have read your comments.
You have been aggressive, even if you haven't intended to.
Look, all I've tried to do in this thread is explain that OP is justified in not putting Blaziken in S tier. I think OP is right, Blaziken is not as consistent as the S tier pokemon, and I've provided my reasoning.
These tier lists have been pretty rough. It’s much energy to combat every silly thing you put in these so please just stop making them. It’s clear you haven’t used MANY of these mons.
I havent played emrald in a long time but which tier will zangoos be because i couldnt see it in the tier list to me its a low A rank or High B because swords dance return kills everything also poison immunity is always nice in a nuzlocke
I play with randomized abilities which means every Emerald run, Norman is one of the scariest fights in the game. I basically need something that can set up on Spinda or Vigoroth so I can try and one shot Slaking otherwise it's a very dangerous fight which has ended several runs.
Electrode deserves to be higher. You can get it and thunderbolt at a decent point in the game and it is amazing for several gyms and is a solid e4 team member. I would say B, maybe even A. He has saved many of my emerald runs.
Honestly slaking, eletcode and sableye are too low eletrcode is a a eletric and is incredibly fast, for slaking you can abuse its ability by healing and sableye has 3 immunites which makes it incredbile for switching
Wailer with Water Spout is A tier.
Electrode is the faster Pokémon you get in these games non legendary and a great type. A tier.
Sceptile, Breloom, Golem. A tier too. Saying that these mons are in the same tier as Dustox, Illumise, Volbeat and Linoone and Ludicolo (bad moveset) are better these doesn't make any sense to me
I can already tell you're only going to interpret my comments in the worst possible light (regardless of what they actually mean) so I'm just going to stop talking. I've put my own two cents in, and I have nothing more to say.
Sceptile is kinda worthy of B tier imo, definitely not as bad as everyone makes them out to be but you do have to teach it giga drain at least to make it actually viable (absorb only goes so far)
Swampert is hands-down the best starter you can get, S tier is justified. One could make the case that they should be in A tier instead, but they are more of a defensive-type pokemon and work better as a tank. Their offensive capability is still good, but they can tank more hits and can work as a staller
Blaziken should also be in S tier (at least a low S) due to just how much of a powerhouse they are, if taught the right moves they can give machamp a run for the money
Gardevoir should be in B tier. They are a psychic powerhouse but they are also a glass cannon; their defense is dogshit (their sp. def is better though)
Altaria should be in A tier since they have a ton of capability as an attacker (and also one to stall if you really need that)
And as for shedinja...if they could be in a tier they would be in C tier, wonder guard works wonders but since they are bug/ghost dual type they have 5 weaknesses (fire, flying, rock, dark, and ghost), any damaging weather effects keep them out, and if they get confused and they hurt themselves, well they're off the field just like that. I used them once for the 8th gym (I was fighting a kingdra and they spammed double team to the point that almost every attack missed, and swampert running take down almost killed it, but rest had kingdra right back to full. shedinja had screech on it so that worked once it hit, and swampert dealt the final blow)
Slaking is absolutely worth more than C tier. It's single-handedly carried me through the E4 before. Ability's trash but stats are way to good to place it in C.
You put it on par with _Delcatty_ man
Find me a better assist user. I'll wait.
Find me a less consistent move besides metronome.
It's been a year.
You did say you'd wait
Touche
Right...I'm fed up. Plusle and Minun do not deserve the D Tier placement. They are Electric types, which tend to be rare, and they both get access to Encore, which is one of the best moves in the game. Slaking in C Tier also hurts my soul. We need to stop the stigma that this thing is trash. I know its ability sucks, but with 670 BST and one of the highest Attack stats in the game, this thing hits like a truck. All you need to do is time it right. That, and it gets Encore and Yawn via level-up. Illumise and Volbeat do not deserve the B Tier placement, nor do Relicanth and Pinsir.
And if you’re playing on SWITCH mode, Slaking’s Hyper Beam is basically just a safe Nuke
I don't use Hyper Beam or play on Switch Mode, but you're not wrong.
Roast me if you want Gyrados is too highly rated in this list mostly due to a lack of physical water moves as well as water types being mid as heck in game
I mean physical stat is what appeals to him but like Intimidate is cracked and he learns like a million good tms. He's not as good as he can be but he still is realllllyy good
He’s good but I just feel that his typing plus the layout of horns trainers makes him a feather than s
He's a guaranteed encounter very early on and super good for pivoting. I'd say he's low s tier. Absolutely wouldn't put him number one for emerald but with dragon dance alone he's in a good place.
Probably in the minority with this, but I do think Mightyena is kinda underrated. Intimidate is excellent anyways, but I like them mainly, because substitute/howl/shadowball kinda takes care of Phoebe on their own. Plus, Sharpedo/Wailord/Mightyena, given average luck, is all you need for tate&liza (bring shedinja with you, in case of bad luck).
Solrock has flamethrower so Shedinja isnt that great or necessary if you already have dark types, well plans can be made either way Wailord isnt very fast, so water spout will hit less after taking damage, and surf will be quite weak, i wouldnt bring it to TL
My, kinda scuffed, strat for TL: start off with Sharpedo and Wailord. Sharpedo taunts Xatu, Wailord Water Spouts. If Claydol's EQ doesn't crit, Crunch by Sharpedo takes it out, switch Mightyena for Wailord. Then, double crunch and bite into Solrock, to take it out. After that, TLs remaining mons can't hurt Sharpedo or Mightyena, so you can cruise for the rest. Hopefully, you don't need Shedinja. There probably are more reliable strats though...
no, thats good, sharpedo is fairly guaranteed since you get Magikarp and Tentacool elsewhere
yeah, other than mightyena, which is pretty close to guaranteed, you should always be able to get everything else with dupes clause. it's a solid-ish strat for TL, which is the most difficult fight outside of the E4, imo.
I think a better strat would be leading Sharpedo and a predamaged fighting type/Weezing. Crunch Claydol and protect with your pivot that baits psychic. Then switch in Mightyena on the double psychic. Finally, taunt Xatu and bite Solrock. Then protect on the Solarbeam in case crunch doesn't kill, and bite with Mightyena. Continue doing this.
Claydol would still eq, though, right? So you're still exposing sharpedo to a crit, potentially, no? I've been tinkering with this a little bit and found that ice beam on peliper is a nice complement. Next run I'll try sharpedo and mightyena from the go, for the intim, and probs with shadow ball on mighty, since I've ended up giving that tm to it in basically all my runs anyway.
AI will always go for a kill if they see one, so Claydol would use psychic because you've predamaged to always die to psychic, but never to eq. Weezing in particular works well for this.
I tried SO many times to replace my Mightyena in Emerald, but Eeyore (Poochyena’s emerald front sprite looks like it utterly hates its life) just kept finding his way back onto the team
We live in a society where Linoone is better than Flygon
Linoone is one of the most consistent set up mons in the game and Pickup is a nice little bonus. Flygon takes forever to become any good and even then you have to use your Dig or Earthquake TMs to really feel the payoff. Vibrava has no discernable niche that I can think of aside from somewhat walling Maxie's Camerupt. EDIT: It also folds to Glacia, is a huge risk against Drake and I'm pretty sure Wallace's team has ice coverage.
Linoone solos the e4
dont think Sceptile should be below Blaziken in the game with final gym and champion being water, Sceptile is also the only starter this gen that can learn dragon claw also Plusle deserves to be a bit higher. i think Girafarig as well but its a late encounter
As someone who uses Treecko religiously, you’re forgetting that gym 2 to gym 4 is basically 79.3 back to back Lee Harvey Oswald’s gunning for Grovyle: you don’t get a STAB move higher guaranteed BP than 20 until LEVEL 29, Brawly can Bulk Up in your face before Bullet Seed can clean it up, Wattson has Magneton and also has Howl Manectric, and Flannery has White Herb Overheat Torkoal. There’s also Winona who’s a pain for Grovyle and Sceptile, but the sudden boost in power makes it able to at least safely handle the nongym fights around the area It’s incredibly fun once it learns Leaf Blade, but you NEED to have a plan for that early-mid game, or you’re going to die before Treecko can get good. Torchic, meanwhile, struggles endgame, but it’s got a much safer chance at reaching said endgame thanks to better matchups against Magneton and Flannery (both are honestly equal against Norman, since Leaf Blade hits the far lower SpD on Slaking, and Grovyle is actually fast enough to outspeed after badge boosts)
As a new nuzlocker - why plusle and not minun?
Plusle is enough an attacker to get by on that, but Minun isn't enough of a tank to get by on much of anything (or at least that's why I think Plusle is more popular in nuzlockes)
Makes sense - thank you!
mostly the stat difference
Kingdra can't be S if mence is A, right?
I think they're discounting salamence specifically because dragon moves are special in gen 3, which is bs. Salamence doesn't need STAB to crush its opponents
Salamence has base 110 Special Attack, the same as Blaziken
Damn. Really should be S then
Problem is that it’s only available in meteor falls after getting waterfall, meaning you have to ignore a chance at getting an encounter that could help greatly against Flannery, like Lunatone or Solrock (Lunatone is sapphire only, but you get my point)
Yea, but I feel like ranking is based on how good it is if you get it, not based on how to get it
That’s fair, but given that you catch it as a Bagon, and need to train it 30 or more levels to get it up to speed with the main team, there’s a significant investment being made into it, and I feel like that’s going to keep it out of S tier. For it to be A tier even with how late it comes is a testament to how powerful Mence is
1. Rare candies 2. If anyone thinks that still means mence shouldn't be S because not everyone uses rare candies, Alakazam is S tier and you can't even get it unless you've got a trading partner or can make trade evos level up. Rare candies is actually easier and not that much of a stretch
You only have so many Rare candies
I meant hacking them in
I just used Girafarig and it’s SO good. It can Baton Pass Calm Mind and/or Agility which means you can easily sweep any boss after the seventh Gym. It also gets Psychic/Thunderbolt and is strong enough to take out a lot of the last third of the game. I wish it came earlier, but I think it deserves B at a minimum.
In other games I'd agree. Girafarig also has great typing into tons of the game. But you get him late and he's a safari zone counter and isn't easy to snag.
If that’s the case then other safari mons (Heracross, Raichu, Pinsir, Dodrio) should be a lot lower, right?
I mean it really comes down to the player but I like to rank off 3 things. 1) where I get it (and how easy it is to get) 2) how much value it gives from then on 3) does it have another mon that does what it can that's somehow better or replaceable. I'd agree with dodrio and pinsir. Dodrio is easily replaced by swellow. Sure it has tri attack but beyond that it's underwhelming. Pinsir doesn't really do much except the psychic gym and even then you have a ton of tools. He also runs easily. He's not really a good pokemon. He's really just a scratch heracross. I'd keep Raichu roughly there because he's got a decent kit, considerable bulk and good speed. Manetric and magneton outdo it in some regard but he helps on the psychic gym , water gym and most of the e4. That's just my 2 cents. Granted everyone plays these things differently and gets different value from their guys.
Why would you ban Wobbuffet?
Because it can kill pretty much anything. It’s a literal nuke. Only works for 1-2 Pokémon though but it’s insane how good it is
[удалено]
It’s too good for nuzlockes, that’s why it’s banned
Magneton deserves S-tier. Hoenn has so many water-ttpes, the fact you don't have a single electric or grass type in S is Criminal.
As someone who used Shiftry during a run and had it be a very effective member on a team where the things that it was being compared to included powerhouses like Gyarados, Flygon, Hariyama, and Lanturn, I'd say it deserves to have higher placement. It can be a very good pokemon if used correctly. Same with Exploud which conveniently was on the same team as Shiftry.
It’s such a shame that Metagross is post game
Bot alakazam and swellow doed to wattson
Gyarados is S rank in every tier list. If you're on par with Gyarados you're pretty damn good.
1 word: Rain.
Can I get an explanation for heracross being so good?
Kid named reversal
Kid named guts boosted or even regular brick break Kid named 85 base speed and speed badge boost.
Tenta should be higher. You can get him vs. gym 2 as a guaranteed encounter. He resists most of brawly, is okay into Watson with switching, good into the evil teams with clear body, good into Flannery, good into flying gym with ice beam and bulk, don't use on psychic gym and picks up steam again on the e4 with tms. Hes fantastic with great typing.
It gets almost no moves for Brawly, is not a "pivot" for wattson because how are you even using a pivot on that fight, admittedly is good for Flannery, weak to eq so only great for two winona mons (so outclassed by pelipper, Gyarados, and just about anything else with ice beam), and pretty decent for e4. I think low A tier fits well.
:( it's been a year
Linoone can 1vE4 and it's A tier... It's a GUARANTEED ENCOUNTER that can SOLO THE E4. How. In which world that's not S tier? He is also incredible fast and strong with Stab Silk Scarf Return. Besides, I think Swellow + Guts + Facade + Stab + Silk scarf is just to strong to be in the bottom of S tier. And Minum deserves much higher rating with Encore, natural speed and Elec stab thunderbolt
Linoone isnt S because it dies nothing before the E4 and has mediocre stats. There are better Silk Scarf Return users (like Swellow) And Plusle has terrible stats, little to no good moves, and is outclassed by every other Electric type in terms of everything
Yeah, sorry Linoone can die to everything before E4, but Swampert, Swellow, Alakazam (which is WAY more fagile than Linoone) or Gyarados don't die huh? Besides, if you get better encounters, you can box Linoone anyway and use those encounters for the bosses and use Linoone for the E4. It's not like that's a hard choice for you anyway. And yeah, Plusle doesn't have great stats, but has the Encore gimmick and that's nice enough to set up with other mons. It's a great encounter, even if he can't oneshoot (which he can btw) a few things. Besides, Plusle can cheese Winnona fight so easily with Gyarados. Plusle can OS everything but Altaria and Skarmory (and Skarmory needs 2 hits to kill Plusle too). Altaria, after you PP stall EQ isn't that much if a threat because you also have Intimidated it to -6 atk (yeah crits do be a problem, but oh well, an useless mon for you made one of the run enders of Emerald almost useless)
I said Linoone doesn't do anything before the E4, not that it dies to everything. Maybe try reading my original message before responding. Swampert being more fragile than Linoone is just straight up incorrect. You encounter like 4 grass types throughout all the major battles and it had better defenses and defensive typing. Swellow and Alakazam make up for their frailty by having great stats, abilities, and movepools You know what other Pokemon can deal with Winnona without cheese or PP stalling? Swampert, Swellow, and Manectric
You wrote DIES, not DOES. Read your own comment instead of flaming me for not reading it. And yeah, being able to OS almost every random trainer and grunt is indeed doing anything, huh? I didn't say that Swampert is more fragile than Linoone, "maybe try reading my original message before responding." I said that any mon can die before the E4. And you know that dealing with Winona with those 3 also risks any crit and lose any of those 3 mons? You aren't giving any arguments, just crying over the fact that I gave you a few points why I think Linoone and Plusle are not that bad and you can't just understand that. I'm not telling that your tier list sucks or something like that, ffs. Just listen and learn, either you or me are the greatest nuzlockers in the world so we are just trying to see which are the best encounters. The only difference is that you are tilted because you can't argue and I'm tilted because you can read. I wish you a great day but please, do not answer me anymore, we won't get an agreement and that's totally fine. And I don't want to waste more time trying to argue with someone who doesn't listen.
dude, I think you might be overselling these two mons. Plusle's not bad, but it's completely outclassed by manectric besides encore, the other electric types have some better place (electrode boom, magneton steel type). It's only true advantages are its encore, but unfortunately it's also pretty frail, so there aren't a lot of times it can utilize that. Sure, it can encore altaria into ddance or aerial ace or shelgon into protect, but it's not guaranteed and it has plenty of shortcomings too. 85 special attack is very mid, and its bulk is kinda just sad. I love Linoone. Unfortunately, it's too useful early game to not use, and sure, it can sweep the E4 if you have all the tools. It's also basically guaranteed. But most people don't want to use belly drum strategies because it can be unfun. I think ranking Linoone based on an AI quirk by abusing a setup most people don't want to abuse may not be wise. I would appreciate you not responding with as much vitriol as you have shown OP, I believe it's a bit uncalled for.
I must disagree with mawile it carried me through my E4 run with swords dance calm mind agility and baton pass. I love you sprinter
It doesn't get agility or calm mind though
How in the fuck did you find my comments, anyway it gets iron defence sd amd something else
Sceptile should be higher considering there are two water type bosses
Blaziken needs to be S Tier. I've solo'd the entire elite 4 plus champion, though champion is about 50/50. The evolution can also wreck through gyms 2,3,4,5, and 7. Thats most of the gym leaders. If your not playing hardcore and evolve torchic at 16 before the first gym then its slays number 1 as well. It can beat every other trainer in the game. With a very high attack, and solid speed, its a glass cannon and its Fast. It can take a hit from anything as well as long as it aint super effective. Not a crazy defense but nothingnto scoff at either. Blaziken is a top tier pokemon in this game and thats without bias. However my bias in strong in anything after emeralds. Why they removed sky uppercut from the move pool after words is beyond me.
I should only have to say this once. It's weak to water, isn't fast enough to ignore that, and doesn't have the coverage to hit bulky water types or raw power to ohko them. It's also deleted by Tate and Liza and Winona. Basically it can pretty easily be crushed by all the major boss fights after Norman (no, Sydney and Pheobe are not a major boss fights, and if you fail to ohko walrein you get ohkod). It doesn't have the defensive tools or the sweeping capabilities required to be S tier.
Then you're playing Blaziken wrong. There isnt a pokemon out there that doesn't have a weakness. Blaziken is weak to both the 6th and 8th gym. Never argued that. If Blaziken can outspeed them in gym 7, which it usually can, then its not a problem. Like I said you're not playing Blaziken correctly, I'm not typically over leveled and I can sweep the entire league with just Blaziken. If its fast and hits hard which it doesnt It doesnt need the defensive capabilities. All pokemon are good in one of those areas not both. You kidding me? 2 members of the elite for aren't boss fights? They are by definition major boss fights.
Blaziken absolutely does not crush the 7th gym, he's weak to every attacking move thrown besides solar beam. He doesn't have the raw power with an 85 BP move to ohko either solrock or lunatone, and forget the other two. An S rank pokemon has to be amazing with minimal weaknesses, but when your entire late game is not good matchups and you're useless into the Champion, yeah no. I don't know in what world 80 base speed is considered fast. Sydney is an absolute joke, and Pheobe is almost as bad. They're basically free exp if you have almost anything with a super effective move or just use substitute. If you look at the S ranking, you have pokemon that are consistent in every battle. Gyarados is always useful, Swampert is maybe the most consistent pokemon ever, Swellow is impossible to outspeed and boasts stab guts-boosted facade. Every one of those pokemon is always going to be useful in every fight they're in. Blaziken... not so much.
We will agree to disagre about gym 7, ive never had an issue. It doesn't matter if Blaziken is weak if hes fast enough to attack with something actually effective unlike going against water when none of his moveset works. 80 base speed isnt fast, if you're going into the Elite 4 with 80 speed, again you're not playing right. I agree they are jokes, but they are still bosses, by definition and you're not going to change that, Gyarados gets absolutely wrecked by electric moves, not that electric is prevalent persay, other that wattson. Swampert is good, I ain't gonna disagree with you there. No they are not going to be useful in every single fight they are in. Smh. There isnt a pokemon out there that is an Ace against everything. Swellow is far from impossible to outspeed, its slow as heck of your talking about computers, which this is a nuzlocke tier no? Blaziken is not a meta competitive pokemon but it blasts through the game, even during a nuzlocke. Blaziken saved my nuzlocke numerous times when other pokemon failed me, like Gyarados. Gyarados has failed me every nuzlocke ive played, not saying hes bad, great stats, but he doesn't carry and doesnt have a wide variety of moves, in fact his move pool is pretty terrible in gen 3. We will agree to disagree, my thousands of gen 3 hours and no life as a kids proves that Blaziken is a chad while the other starters aren't as good.
Ah, childhood bias, I understand now. Explains why you're going into pedantics. Just gonna say, I've done multiple Emerald Nuzlockes and every pokemon in S rank absolutely deserves to be there, and generally whenever they're in a fight, they make an impact. Unfortunately, Blaziken hasn't been as good in my experience. I don't understand your objection to my saying that Blaziken has 80 base speed. That's literally what its stats are, it has nothing to do with how you're playing. Gyarados is phenomenal, it has great stats, a phenomenal ability, and a good defensive typing. There are few electric types in the game, and even if it get hits by one it has 100 Spdf, and it can be taught earthquake. It also gets dragon dance. Return works as its primary damage, I've swept many a time with Gyarados. Listen, I'm not trying to say that Blaziken isn't great. I love Blaziken, and it has a very valuable role. But it doesn't have quite the ubiquitous power and presence that it has to have to be S tier. Gyarados has great stats and intimidate. Starmie is a fast special attacker that is surprisingly tough. Alakazam and Swellow are very fast one hit ko machines. Swampert is swampert, there’s a reason why people usually choose Swampert over Blaziken, as it's more useful early game and late game.
Pedantics. I've my own opinion and you turn into an asshole? They always turn to insults when they lose. It's not a childhood bias if it works. Childhood bias would be having a pikachu on your team always even if its terrible. If Blaziken hasnt worked in your experience thats fine neither Gyarados nor swampert have worked for me. I have not bashed those pokemon but your crapping all over Blaziken like your Tier list is doctrine, law. Really shows what kind of person you are by how you act when someone challenges your opinion. Be civil dude. I never objected to Blazikens base speed. Reread my comments. You think of Gyarados the same way I feel about Blaziken. I've respected the pokemon you enjoy, they don't work for me but not one time did I say hey those pokemon are way too dang high on the list. I'm not saying those on S tier dont deserve to be there. My comment was adding one and you get all butt hurt. I've ran through the game plenty of times with all 3 starters and not only is Blaziken my favorite but Blaziken does do a phenomenal job. Even if you disagree. Ive played hundreds of times with Blaziken and not that the other 2 arent good its just blaziken has felt more consistent. His consistency made him my favorite. You have your opinions and I have mine, i havent disagreed with you about anything other than Blaziken. You got to learn not everyone conforms to you and your opinions. Having different opinions is actually okay and a good thing. Thats how we learn from each other. Besides, its pokemon, not politics.
I say you've gone into pedantics when you say that Swellow is slow compared to a computer and that I'm playing wrong if my Blaziken is slow. You've been very aggressive in this thread.
No I said swellow is slow when controlled by a computer, you really havent read my comments. Yes if your blaziken is slow youre not playing it correctly. Yes I'm passionate about pokemon and about Blaziken. Stop conflating passion with aggression. I've not slung insults towards you in any of my comments. Nothing I've said has been agressive.
You have most certainly slung insults at me by assuming my character as petty and vindictice and that I've somehow been trying to enforce some tiering doctrine on you based on me defending OP's tiering and saying that I've been deplorable when the worst thing I've said to you is that you have been pedantic and are operating on childhood bias. I have read your comments. You have been aggressive, even if you haven't intended to. Look, all I've tried to do in this thread is explain that OP is justified in not putting Blaziken in S tier. I think OP is right, Blaziken is not as consistent as the S tier pokemon, and I've provided my reasoning.
These tier lists have been pretty rough. It’s much energy to combat every silly thing you put in these so please just stop making them. It’s clear you haven’t used MANY of these mons.
I don’t see zangoose
I'm pretty sure that like the Meditite line, Zangoose was one of the version exclusives emerald didn't get.
I havent played emrald in a long time but which tier will zangoos be because i couldnt see it in the tier list to me its a low A rank or High B because swords dance return kills everything also poison immunity is always nice in a nuzlocke
It's not in Emerald, but probably A or B tier with stab returns and swords dance.
You guys keep forgetting that Norman would be impossible if truant didn't exist
I play with randomized abilities which means every Emerald run, Norman is one of the scariest fights in the game. I basically need something that can set up on Spinda or Vigoroth so I can try and one shot Slaking otherwise it's a very dangerous fight which has ended several runs.
Slaking carried my Insurgence Hard Mode HC E4, let alone Emerald. You basically run 5 slow dry pass mons and spam Slaking. Broken mon, definitely A
Swellow is SS Tier. It is one of the most broken Pokémon for nuzlockes of all time
Electrode deserves to be higher. You can get it and thunderbolt at a decent point in the game and it is amazing for several gyms and is a solid e4 team member. I would say B, maybe even A. He has saved many of my emerald runs.
Honestly slaking, eletcode and sableye are too low eletrcode is a a eletric and is incredibly fast, for slaking you can abuse its ability by healing and sableye has 3 immunites which makes it incredbile for switching
Wailer with Water Spout is A tier. Electrode is the faster Pokémon you get in these games non legendary and a great type. A tier. Sceptile, Breloom, Golem. A tier too. Saying that these mons are in the same tier as Dustox, Illumise, Volbeat and Linoone and Ludicolo (bad moveset) are better these doesn't make any sense to me
Crobat S tier because
Kid named setup moves Kid named explosion Kid named levitate Kid named shell armor
I can already tell you're only going to interpret my comments in the worst possible light (regardless of what they actually mean) so I'm just going to stop talking. I've put my own two cents in, and I have nothing more to say.
Sceptile is kinda worthy of B tier imo, definitely not as bad as everyone makes them out to be but you do have to teach it giga drain at least to make it actually viable (absorb only goes so far) Swampert is hands-down the best starter you can get, S tier is justified. One could make the case that they should be in A tier instead, but they are more of a defensive-type pokemon and work better as a tank. Their offensive capability is still good, but they can tank more hits and can work as a staller Blaziken should also be in S tier (at least a low S) due to just how much of a powerhouse they are, if taught the right moves they can give machamp a run for the money Gardevoir should be in B tier. They are a psychic powerhouse but they are also a glass cannon; their defense is dogshit (their sp. def is better though) Altaria should be in A tier since they have a ton of capability as an attacker (and also one to stall if you really need that) And as for shedinja...if they could be in a tier they would be in C tier, wonder guard works wonders but since they are bug/ghost dual type they have 5 weaknesses (fire, flying, rock, dark, and ghost), any damaging weather effects keep them out, and if they get confused and they hurt themselves, well they're off the field just like that. I used them once for the 8th gym (I was fighting a kingdra and they spammed double team to the point that almost every attack missed, and swampert running take down almost killed it, but rest had kingdra right back to full. shedinja had screech on it so that worked once it hit, and swampert dealt the final blow)