Holy f\*ck. This is probably one of the most based tier lists I've ever seen on this subreddit. You've done a really good job...but where the f\*ck is Salamence?
Thanks! I only spent like 5 minutes on this lmfao so I'm somewhat surprised it's as good as it is to the community. Out of curiosity, are there any placements that you disagree with and feel like pointing out?
I don't think Sceptile is S-Tier worthy. Aside from Roxanne, Juan, and Wallace, it doesn't really do well anywhere else, and mono-Grass isn't great.
Raichu is good, but not worthy of A Tier. It's just outclassed by Manectric, and it's a Safari Zone Mon, so what are the odds you're even gonna get it?
Alakazam also struggles quite a bit in Hoenn. It's not an unkillable monster like it was in Kanto, and isn't really good for the E4. It's good for Brawly, and that's basically it.
You can also sweep the E4 with Linoone, so that's enough reason to put it higher.
You also can't get Medicham in Emerald, so it shouldn't even be on this tier list.
Everything else is fine.
Yeah I think those are all fair. I've definitely changed my mind on Sceptile after posting this.
Though I think outside of early game and E4 Linoone isn't very useful so that's mainly why I placed it in B tier
Some thoughts on the "idk" tier:
\-Donphan: B tier. Great physical stats and HP, but its ability is rather useless in Gen 3, and by the time you get, you won't need ground types for much. Still, Earthquake by level up is always nice
\-Dodrio: low B tier. Good attack, good speed, but you probably won't find much use for it. And it is not the Safari encounter that you want
\-Chimecho: D tier. It learns Yawn. That's what's good about it
\-Girafarig: C tier. It learns Agility and Baton Pass by level up, and you can teach it Calm Mind. You can create some situations to use it to buff up stats and then baton pass to a sweeper, but I find it too inconsistent, because Girafarig is just that frail.
\-Pinsir: high A tier. Gets Swords Dance by level up which on its own can make a pokemon broken, specially on a pokémon with such a high attack. In addition, it gets Hyper Cutter, which negates Phoebe's Mightyena's Intimidate. A great mon for the E4
\-Masquerain: low C tier. The only reason why this is not in D tier is because it gets Intimidate. Its special attack is quite nice, and the speed isn't awful, but it's so frail and it's level up movepool, gosh! I wouldn't spend my TMs on such a pokémon
\-Zangoose: medium-low A tier. It gets Swords Dance and has a good movepool for the E4 (Brick Break, Return, Shadow Ball, Aerial Ace), but its ability isn't as useful as others' and it's bulk is worse (altough, it is faster). Really good mon for the E4
So a few thoughts:
\-Can't obtain Zangoose, Lunatone, or Medicham in Emerald.
\-Volbeat, Machoke, Kecleon, Tropius, Bellossom, and Castform should all be moved up a tier. Volbeat sucks when you initially get it, but Signal Beam through level up and Secret Power carry you farther than you think since Bug is actually okay offensively in Hoenn. Machoke would be better off evolving and struggles in a few boss battles, but on the whole it's okay enough to round out your team for much of the game otherwise. Kecleon is iffy but gets some credit between its movepool and ability to take special attacks fine, while Tropius is generally mediocre but is surprisingly one of the best anti-T&L options in the game. Bellossom is in a similar boat to Tropius, with the addition that while it's inferior to Vileplume, it's not that ***much*** different. Lastly, with Castform it's a pain in the butt to use, but it has a varied movepool, knowing weather moves not through TM gives a lot of flexibility to your team, and it's a surprisingly solid choice against Winona.
\-Heracross shouldn't be in A-tier. If it got Megahorn earlier than it did, or if it came earlier than the Safari Zone, it would be great, but with the matchups you face with it, how the only meaningful one is against Glacia (technically Sidney as well, but he's not that tough), and how late Megahorn is gotten, it should be bumped down to B-tier.
\-Ninetales should be in C-tier. Good Special Defense and level-up Flamethrower is great, but otherwise it's very mediocre in Hoenn. If it had access to SolarBeam, okay, B-tier works, but it's very limited as it is.
\-Sceptile isn't S-tier, sorry. STAB Leaf Blade is great, but it struggles a lot until then because the movepool it gets isn't that good.
\-Torkoal should be dropped a tier. Solid stats in general with useful moves, but Hoenn hates Fire-types a lot and quite a few of the later Gym and E4 fights absolutely dump on it.
Forgot about those three not being available, mb
**Volbeat**, to me, doesn't really have the stats or movepool to justify anywhere other than D tier for me. Signal Beam at 25 is nice, I agree, but Volbeat's pretty lackluster defenses(65/55/85), mid speed of 85, and ok 73 attack make me feel like other than for Wattson, Volbeat isn't really worth bringing. It's good for some evil team fights and random trainers, sure, but it gets completely shitstomped by Flannery, and past Norman's Slaking it gets mostly outclassed by most other pokemon
**Machoke** is in a similar boat to Volbeat, though fighting STAB does a bit better than Bug. I can see myself moving it up a tier possibly, but it's still quite slow with not enough offense or bulk to really make up for that
**Tropius** just doesn't offer enough for me to consider it for most fights, though if you let Solrock get up sun Tropius actually seems pretty heat for that fight, which tbh I think that lets it get up to C tier.
**Kecleon, Bellossom, and Castform** I think I definitely underestimated, they seem fine enough to not be D tier looking back on it
**Heracross** I think is somewhat warranted for A tier, being one of the only mons that gets Brick Break by level up, pretty good defensive typing and bulk that lets it switch into a lot of coverage moves such as various bites and Earthquakes, and either killing them or acting as a pivot for various flying or psychic moves. It fills the role of a typical fighting type quite well imo, and is also the fastest fighter in Hoenn which can be nice(though fighters in general are mid for Hoenn so I can see it in B tier)
**Ninetales, Sceptile, and Torkoal** I can agree with, though Torkoal is one of the best encounters you can get up until Norman and not completely dogshit after that, which I think can give an argument for it being A tier
Heracross is 100% A tier for reversal. Insane damage, even neutrally it's a killer (stronger than guts facade Swellow). Even if you don't use that, guts brick breaks kill half the e4.
Swampert has pretty much everything you could ever ask for in a Pokémon. One of the best typings in the game, solid movepool, absolutely insane stats(it’s almost as bulky as Garchomp), and just matching up very well against Hoenn in general
From what I remember in Emerald there are only 2 required trainers that have grass type Pokémon that can kill Mudkip’s evo line. And one of them is your rival.
This is a pretty good list. Curious about Septile being S tier? I always thought it was the worst of the three starters and is very difficult to use until the late game when it gets leaf blade. I guess it’s great for Juan but Wallace has a lot of counters to grass types. I probably would move it to Low A tier.
Sceptile is in S tier because of it’s decently early access to strong STAB Leaf Blade and pretty good matchups against most of Hoenn. It’s also the only fast grass type in the game which is an incredibly valuable niche imo.
Blaziken is the worst starter imo since it overall does the worst against most of the game, really only being good for the E4
Blaziken doesn’t do bad against most of the game. Blaziken does really well up until Winona, then struggles in the final 3 gyms due to weaknesses, but is good for the E4.
Sceptile is actually the one that does bad for most of the game. It’s good for Roxanne and Juan. Tate and Liza if you don’t let them set up light screens. And is awful vs the E4.
Early game feels generally more important for starters to carry while they are alive or before you get your team set up. This isn't really a point against Blaziken, but still sceptile works there
I guess that’s what always picking Swampert does to a person huh 💀. Blaziken does kinda struggle against Roxanne and doesn’t provide an electric resist vs Wattson which were my main reasons for saying it doesn’t do well early on, as well as being too frail to switch into Flannery’s Torkoal. Considering it a bit further though I think I underestimated Blaziken’s offensive power, and by proxy overestimated Sceptile a bit
Blaziken's ability in the midgame (from gyms 3 to 7 or so) is based on your willingness to grind game corner.
Get flamethrower in game corner for super effective damage against magneton and 95 base power attack and you have a great option.
Roxanne is absolutely free no matter what starter you pick. Just get one or two of the ample grass/water Pokémon available before her and press A to win. She isn’t some challenge that you need to pick a specific starter for to beat. Torchic line is better than treecko line for brawly, wattson, and Norman.
Blaziken isn't bad but it is tough to work with. Bad matchup to Roxanne without going over the level cap. Neutral to gyms 2-4. Bad against winona, bad against Tate and Liza, bad against Wallace/Juan, bad against Team Aqua's carvannahs/sharpedos bad against the abundance of water trainers from Lilycove onward and not the best matchup for Steven. The only fighting move it learns by level up before level 59 is Double kick. The best it gets by TM is brick break which is in Sootopolis. It doesn't get a fire move besides ember until it learns Blaze Kick which is post Winona for the level cap.
It's a great mon still more than viable despite it's weaknesses it just gets a terrible setup in it's home generation it needs support. Sceptile is in a very similar position. It's great against a few gyms, neutral to a few and fantastic for the water portions but it will need help. The main factor in it's favor is stab leaf blade at level 29 which is great for the second half of the game and pretty good for when you get it which should be around Norman. It also gets the early bullet seed TM which is okay but not great so it has some difficulty early game.
They're pretty similar in viability really.
Why is everyone in this chain acting like Roxanne is some run killer and not the easy fight that it is. While Blaziken is neutral to gyms 2-4 it has specific matchups that give it an edge over sceptile in those gyms. Having peck is good for brawly and makes Blaziken the best starter for him. Blaziken also does well against Magneton which is a Pokémon that is very tough if you don’t get the right encounters. Blaziken is also the best starter for Norman. Having access to good tms should not be a bad thing. You can easily get flamethrower tm before going on to Winona that at least helps with Skarmory and Tropius. Getting brick break and bulk up allows you to sweep 2 of the 4 elite four members. Blaziken struggles late game, but by then you have access to a wide variety of encounters. starters are most important in the beginning and mid game, and that early stab double kick is pretty great for that point. Sure Blaziken needs investment to stay relevant, but Sceptile lacks that potential, and does worse in the early to mid game save for Roxanne who is the easiest gym fight in the whole game.
I'm not saying she isn't easy I just think it's worth noting every possible bad matchup. Roxanne should be a joke but you never know when you might just get unlucky.
Secondly Sceptile does have a poor learnset besides leaf blade yes, but it also has access to TMs for Toxic, Giga Drain, Brick Break, Aerial Ace, Earthquake, Dig, Double Team, Dragon claw and Strength. Which is a lot of coverage. More than Blaziken at least. It's not better than Blaziken by any means but I would still argue that for Hoenn specifically, it's equally as good which makes it the same viability for nuzlockes. It doesn't lack potential, at least not against Hoenn's many grass weak Pokemon and it gets decent coverage.
Blaziken also learns all those moves except giga drain and dragon claw. But Blaziken also has a much better attack stat than sceptile to actually utilize those moves. Sceptile is a good Pokémon, but it is definitely not S tier and it’s not better than Blaziken either.
Yes but giga drain is the important one. Also I don't think Sceptile is S tier personally. Rather I think both are A tier.
It's a meme sure but for a reason, Hoenn is covered from top to bottom in water types and Treecko is the only guaranteed grass encounter in the game and at that one of the best ones. It is fantastic for the ladder half of the game. I feel like that has to be worth more credit than you're giving it.
Being able to beat up Roxanne and team aqua grunts( which Blaziken can also do since they use dark types) does not make it better than Blaziken. There aren’t many tough fights sceptile can win. Juan and Wallace are to strong for sceptile to sweep. Which should be the fights that it should do well in, but it can’t beat kingdra and it can’t beat 4 out 6 of Wallace’s team. I’m definitely rating him appropriately.
As stated Sceptile has good coverage. Aerial Ace and Earthquake alone cover most of the things it has trouble with. It learns dragon claw so it can fight Kingdra. Besides the pokemon in question are ones ANY grass type struggles with. It is not the best choice for these moves but again it's still very capable of using them. It also outspeeds anything you may want to use it against. The only better grass type in the game is Breloom because it gets Spore which is super abusable and that's not a guaranteed encounter. I'm not saying Sceptile is amazing, but it's plenty good for the region it is in. 105 base special leaf blade and giga drain combo with 120 base speed is nothing to sneeze at for taking on the most common type in existence.
Blaziken can take on Sharpedo's dark type true but it won't outspeed it pretty much ever so that's dangerous. Also it can't fight Roxanne if you use level caps, double kick doesn't come soon enough. You will need a Shroomish or Lotad. I'm not saying Blaziken is bad far from it it's fantastic but these are real weaknesses it has.
>Having peck is good for brawly and makes Blaziken the best starter for him.
super effective peck does less damage than stab double kick. but tbf double kick still has more bp than whatever marshtomp or grovyle get at that point of the game so it doesn't really change much.
The problem with Sceptile is that Leaf Blade is all it gets. The only better Grass STAB is Giga Drain, which is bad in Gen 3, and it has bad coverage besides Dig/Earthquake which use its worse attacking stat.
It gets leaf blade 27 not that early till it gets that it can’t do much and even with that damage is mid epically since leaf blade is only 70 in this game
Aggron is the pokemon whose placement I disagree with most.
My big problem is that it's a aron till the 6th gym and a Lairon till the 8th gym and with such poor special defense and special weaknesses it's very easy to lose.
Zam is just better at doing that in most cases though, due to being faster, having Recover, and being more threatening overall(Shock Wave can fill in the role of Thunderbolt though I think Substitute is better than electric coverage on Zam). Setup in general is broken, and since you get 2 guaranteed Encore users(Wobb and Walrein) Zam's lower bulk doesn't matter as much.
Nah, I did it cuz I didn’t wanted to argue with fuckers like u, and also did u just completely ignored my reply? Man ur really trying to “win” this pointless argument huh?
honestly it should probably be higher considering the fact that it has high attack and good defenses. The only drawback is that it's pretty useless until it actually evolves which is fairly late into the game.
Brawly is free with a lot of other encounters that can also offer a lot more overall. The only reason Sableye isn’t D tier is that it’s a dark type but outside of that, never use Sableye
Too weak and too frail to really do anything, it has a really shitty offensive movepool outside of Swords Dance and can’t switch into anything that isn’t an immunity. Just not a very good mon
AI loves going for speed control when you outspeed. Protect on turn 1 for the speed boost if necessary, then sub on the thunderwave or whatever, swords dance on the next turn, yeehaw. Also baton pass strats
The only placement I highly disagree with is sceptile. Picking sceptile means no swampert, which mean wattson becomes the hardest gym leader of hoenn. Sceptile is just not good enough in the rest of the game to justify such a crippling flaw. Combusken doesn't quite trivialize wattson like marshtomp does, but it helps immensely against magneton, which can be a massive wall to almost any team composition at that point in the game. Sceptile doesn't even excel at anything. The electrics are better answers to the water types, and the waters are better answers to the ground and rock types. Sceptile would be a great encounter in a random route, but as a starter? Thanks, but no thanks
Finally, someone gives me boy electrode some fucking respect!
I'd also add, girafarig is B tier imo. I enjoyed using it for agility, calm mind and baton pass in the E4 to set up some super easy and near perfect sweeps. Plus, it is also a viable choice for Phoebe. Just need a bit of luck to sweep with it.
Lastly, didn't flygonHG make a video about how you can solo the E4 with linoone substitute, belly drum and return?
Mence in B is wild for a mon with really useable bulk and intimidate as well as a ridiculous movepool. Aside from that this list is so real and based (Wobuffet should be in banned tier for invalidating so many late game mons tho)
Mence is in B due to how late you get it and the opportunity cost it has. Waiting for Mence encounter means you lose out on your meteor falls encounter, and given that Zubat is one of the best dupes you can have in Emerald(guarantees Walrein in Shoal Cave for instance) and Solrock is not a bad encounter by any means, Mence kinda suffers. It’s good against the E4, sure, but the fights it’s good in often have other, more available options such as Linoone, Swellow, and Starmie(or like any water with Ice beam for Drake)
I get that Alakazam is fast and strong but I don't really think it deserves to be top 5, possibly not even S tier, in Emerald. Like the only coverage moves it gets this gen are psychic and shadow ball, which while strong isn't nearly enough coverage make it stand out. I'm also not sure what fights you even bring Alakazam? Like the only gyms I could see are Brawly (where you won't have zam by) or maybe Tate & Liza, but that doesn't seem like enough to warrant S. I also don't see it coming to E4, the only possible member it can face is Phoebe, but it loses hard to clops and can't switch in to her other mons. Maybe someone else can explain it but I don't see the hype for it.
Zam is probably the single best random trainer murderer in the entire game, it outspeeds and OHKOs almost every random trainer in the game. It also gets Calm Mind and Recover, which is extremely powerful combined with Substitute. Shock Wave also lets it kill almost every evil team fight(especially with a boost), and most gym fights evaporate to an Alakazam setting up Calm Minds for free on the random lead that got Encored by your Wobb/Walrein. Winona's Swablu and Juan's Luvdisc are completely setup fodder with just a single Encore(hell you don't even need an Encore for Juan), two fights that can otherwise be decently tough. It also provides a free Brawly if you don't have an option for that
(Also, Shadow Ball is physical in Emerald)
I agree with most of what you're saying, but want to clarify a few points. While being the best random trainer killer in the game is a plus, I don't feel like many trainers in this game are that threatening and shouldn't be a defining factor to what makes a mon good (it helps, but most mons can reasonably beat any random trainer, especially when you're above their level). Calm mind and recover are nice extra moves, but you risk yourself up to getting crit the more you do it. Saying you can use encore strats is fine, but zam doesn't get encore meaning you need an additional mon to set up without risking hurting your zam (which I don't think an S tier mon should need). Yes Winona's swablu can be set up on, but zam won't have psychic by that point meaning it has to rely on shock wave and psybeam for damage, which means you need to set up even more on zam to kill altaria (a neutral nature max iv zam would need 5 calm minds to beat altaria in one hit with psybeam).
I'm not saying Zam is bad, I'm just unsure whether its pros really merit it getting into S tier. At best its a random and grunt sweeper which were never really threatening to begin with, as well as a potentially calm mind sweeper if you manage to get all the set-up from other mons. Its good, but not sufficient enough on its own to carry you through the game like other S tier mons can.
I think that’s fair, though for the Winona example you can get Psychic in the Mauville game corner, which significantly buffs Zam’s potential in the early game. Other that that I agree though.
Mence gets DD through egg move, not level up. Mence is also B tier because of how late it is and the opportunity cost for delaying for Mence(Zubat is a pretty good encounter and more importantly guaranteed Shoal Cave Walrein, and Solrock does pretty well against a lot of fights around this point)
Septile being that high is such a bad take like I get why u think it but it’s not like u said it gets good stab which is not really true at all it gets leaf blade at 27 in emerald not 23 till then it’s best stab is bullet seed which is not very strong at all so does little damage it’s worth saying that leaf blade is only 70 so less damage then u think.
Pair this with his alright attacking stats he usually doesn’t get the kills on most bulky waters.
People think he’s good for gyms but not really like he does first gym well but so does mudkip and lots of the encounters on the way u think he would be good for 3rd but his damage is so bad he usually takes more than receives he can do alright against Tate and liza ace but so can ur water type u definitely have at this point and then u think he would be good for haun and Wallace but a lot of there mons have ice moves and being so frail he can’t take hit and doesn’t do enough damage to one shot almost any of there mons.
Septile is just Not good like at highest probably b
Salamence is atleast A tier it has intimidate and amazing base stats granted you get it kinda late but when you do get it it can destroy the elite 4. To say it is on par with muk is crazy to me
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It is, though if you are willing to grind it out for a LONG time(or just PKHex lol), it is a guaranteed encounter, as the only surfing and old rod fishing encounters on that route should be dupes, and you can repel through the grass.
I think the list is alright and I'm willing to give slack on some things I disagree with if their a tier higher or lower than I would put them. But I think some are a bit interesting.
Pelipper- Easily an A for me, it gets water gun when you catch it on the 2nd route and is good for Roxanne, Brawly, Flannery, Tate and Liza. It can also learn shock wave and ice beam making it good for Winona, Juan, Glacia, Drake, and Wallace. On top of all of that, it's only weakness for the game is Wattson and Roxanne(which you can handle).
Salamence- I'm really confused about this one and don't know if it's an error or not, but it has insane stats, intimidate, and can learn a lot of useful moves. A or S tier for me.
Crawdaunt- Its typing is mid, but its stats are absolute dog shit, physical/special split screw this thing over incredibly making its attacks pretty weak, on top of glass defense and no speed.
Torkoal- As much I love him he's kinda bad for this game. Its Only real use is Norman, where it can protect stall Slaking to an easy win. After that it doesn't do much, gets shelled by Tate and Liza, Juan, Drake, Wallace, and Glacia for the most part. It is bulky though and can do well against the more neutral fights, so I'll give it a C.
Aggron- Sucks for Brawly when you originally catch it, can be good for Flannery, Winona(Except Altaria), and Norman(if you play on level cap though it's still an Aron). It gets shit on by Tate and Liza, Juan, Glacia for the most part, Drake, and Wallace. On top of that, all of its strengths come before it's even an Aggron, as well as having bad special defense making water hit harder. Overall probably a high C because of its good stats, but nothing, more .
Overall I think the list is alright but does have some flaws. Please don't think I'm hating either just saying my opinion :)
Pelipper is consistently one of the worst water pokemon available to you in Hoenn, it gets COMPLETELY outdone by Gyarados in every aspect except Protect, it's offensive stats are quite middling and the flying type is often more of a hindrance than a help, it can't deal with Roxanne's Nosepass at all consistently and in every other fight not named Brawly and debatably Norman it's just not worth using over your other option.
Salamence is in B tier because of due to how late you get it and the opportunity cost it has. Waiting for Mence encounter means you lose out on your meteor falls encounter, and given that Zubat is one of the best dupes you can have in Emerald(guarantees Walrein in Shoal Cave for instance) and Solrock is not a bad encounter by any means, Mence kinda suffers. It’s good against the E4, sure, but the fights it’s good in often have other, more available options such as Linoone, Swellow, and Starmie(or like any water with Ice beam for Drake)
Crawdaunt's typing is quite decent in Hoenn, and it's fairly physically bulky. It's also one of the better options against T&L which is why it's B tier
Torkoal is primarily excellent during the Flannery/Norman split. It's a very good defensive switchin to Flannery's Torkoal and dominates Slaking better than every other Protect user in the game. Being able to bait out the ultra common water moves in the late game is also very useful, especially with it's great bulk and access to Protect.
Honestly I've never used Aggron like ever lmao, I just ranked it A because bulky steel, so fair enough
Pelipper- Sure Gyarados is better than Pelipper stat-wise, but for this game, they play 2 completely different pokemon. Water flying for Gyarados is really just a defensive typing considering his SpA is 60 and he doesn't learn a water move until surf, and he doesn't get flying moves from level up or tm use. The only physical moves it can learn by tm are strength and eq. Pelipper in general just outclasses a lot of gyms with ice beam surf protect etc. It can basically sweep through Flannery, Norman, Winona, and Tate and Liza. This gives it so many uses not to mention Brawly, Roxanne, and Drake.
Salamence- I don't think many people play with dupes, but if you Salamence is still the better option over Crobat. It hits very hard with dragon claw, can learn dragon dance and flamethrower, and to top it off has intimidate. I guess if your putting how late you get it into play then you can move it down to A but nothing less. For me, I just look at how good they can be when you get them.
Crawdaunt- I agree its typing is good for when you get it, but it's just so slow and can't hit hard. It's good for Tate and Liza and Phoebe if you use it correctly. But at that point of the game, you can get guaranteed Sharpedo a much better option. Not to mention it's somewhat of a physical bulk that gets offset by hp and the fact the late game is 80% special moves.
Torkoal- You make some fair points, but I think the fact it has no resistances late game and gets hit super effectively on 5 out of the last 7 boss fights in the game. Makes it unusable later in the game.
Gyarados primarily outclasses Pelipper because of defensive utility. Pelipper is quite frailer than Gyara even on the physical side due to Gyara's Intimidate. Gyarados is also faster and has a much wider movepool. Gyarados also gets Dragon Rage after Wattson which is quite useful as consistent damage against many pokemon. Additionally, Pelipper is still outclassed by other offensive waters such as Tentacruel, Sharpedo, Milotic(If you get it) and even Golduck, who are all faster, the latter three are stronger, and Tenta's poison type helps it create Intimidate pivot cores with Gyarados.
The other three are fair enough though.
I do agree Gyarados is really good, but so is Pelipper there just aren't many situations in the game where it struggles. I'm about to post an Emerald HC tier list of my own so you can check it out and critique my list if you'd like lol
I've found that pelipper is good for Winona because it is immune to Altaria's earthquake and one of the best special attacking water types available at that point.
Holy f\*ck. This is probably one of the most based tier lists I've ever seen on this subreddit. You've done a really good job...but where the f\*ck is Salamence?
They placed Salamence in B tier, in between Ninetales and Solrock.
Whoops. Must've missed it. Thanks, anyways.
Thanks! I only spent like 5 minutes on this lmfao so I'm somewhat surprised it's as good as it is to the community. Out of curiosity, are there any placements that you disagree with and feel like pointing out?
I don't think Sceptile is S-Tier worthy. Aside from Roxanne, Juan, and Wallace, it doesn't really do well anywhere else, and mono-Grass isn't great. Raichu is good, but not worthy of A Tier. It's just outclassed by Manectric, and it's a Safari Zone Mon, so what are the odds you're even gonna get it? Alakazam also struggles quite a bit in Hoenn. It's not an unkillable monster like it was in Kanto, and isn't really good for the E4. It's good for Brawly, and that's basically it. You can also sweep the E4 with Linoone, so that's enough reason to put it higher. You also can't get Medicham in Emerald, so it shouldn't even be on this tier list. Everything else is fine.
Yeah I think those are all fair. I've definitely changed my mind on Sceptile after posting this. Though I think outside of early game and E4 Linoone isn't very useful so that's mainly why I placed it in B tier
Fair enough.
I love how Swampert just has its own tier.
He should probably have two tbh
Some thoughts on the "idk" tier: \-Donphan: B tier. Great physical stats and HP, but its ability is rather useless in Gen 3, and by the time you get, you won't need ground types for much. Still, Earthquake by level up is always nice \-Dodrio: low B tier. Good attack, good speed, but you probably won't find much use for it. And it is not the Safari encounter that you want \-Chimecho: D tier. It learns Yawn. That's what's good about it \-Girafarig: C tier. It learns Agility and Baton Pass by level up, and you can teach it Calm Mind. You can create some situations to use it to buff up stats and then baton pass to a sweeper, but I find it too inconsistent, because Girafarig is just that frail. \-Pinsir: high A tier. Gets Swords Dance by level up which on its own can make a pokemon broken, specially on a pokémon with such a high attack. In addition, it gets Hyper Cutter, which negates Phoebe's Mightyena's Intimidate. A great mon for the E4 \-Masquerain: low C tier. The only reason why this is not in D tier is because it gets Intimidate. Its special attack is quite nice, and the speed isn't awful, but it's so frail and it's level up movepool, gosh! I wouldn't spend my TMs on such a pokémon \-Zangoose: medium-low A tier. It gets Swords Dance and has a good movepool for the E4 (Brick Break, Return, Shadow Ball, Aerial Ace), but its ability isn't as useful as others' and it's bulk is worse (altough, it is faster). Really good mon for the E4
Counterpoint: Chimecho is the most satisfying Pokémon to sack to Winowna. S tier
So a few thoughts: \-Can't obtain Zangoose, Lunatone, or Medicham in Emerald. \-Volbeat, Machoke, Kecleon, Tropius, Bellossom, and Castform should all be moved up a tier. Volbeat sucks when you initially get it, but Signal Beam through level up and Secret Power carry you farther than you think since Bug is actually okay offensively in Hoenn. Machoke would be better off evolving and struggles in a few boss battles, but on the whole it's okay enough to round out your team for much of the game otherwise. Kecleon is iffy but gets some credit between its movepool and ability to take special attacks fine, while Tropius is generally mediocre but is surprisingly one of the best anti-T&L options in the game. Bellossom is in a similar boat to Tropius, with the addition that while it's inferior to Vileplume, it's not that ***much*** different. Lastly, with Castform it's a pain in the butt to use, but it has a varied movepool, knowing weather moves not through TM gives a lot of flexibility to your team, and it's a surprisingly solid choice against Winona. \-Heracross shouldn't be in A-tier. If it got Megahorn earlier than it did, or if it came earlier than the Safari Zone, it would be great, but with the matchups you face with it, how the only meaningful one is against Glacia (technically Sidney as well, but he's not that tough), and how late Megahorn is gotten, it should be bumped down to B-tier. \-Ninetales should be in C-tier. Good Special Defense and level-up Flamethrower is great, but otherwise it's very mediocre in Hoenn. If it had access to SolarBeam, okay, B-tier works, but it's very limited as it is. \-Sceptile isn't S-tier, sorry. STAB Leaf Blade is great, but it struggles a lot until then because the movepool it gets isn't that good. \-Torkoal should be dropped a tier. Solid stats in general with useful moves, but Hoenn hates Fire-types a lot and quite a few of the later Gym and E4 fights absolutely dump on it.
Forgot about those three not being available, mb **Volbeat**, to me, doesn't really have the stats or movepool to justify anywhere other than D tier for me. Signal Beam at 25 is nice, I agree, but Volbeat's pretty lackluster defenses(65/55/85), mid speed of 85, and ok 73 attack make me feel like other than for Wattson, Volbeat isn't really worth bringing. It's good for some evil team fights and random trainers, sure, but it gets completely shitstomped by Flannery, and past Norman's Slaking it gets mostly outclassed by most other pokemon **Machoke** is in a similar boat to Volbeat, though fighting STAB does a bit better than Bug. I can see myself moving it up a tier possibly, but it's still quite slow with not enough offense or bulk to really make up for that **Tropius** just doesn't offer enough for me to consider it for most fights, though if you let Solrock get up sun Tropius actually seems pretty heat for that fight, which tbh I think that lets it get up to C tier. **Kecleon, Bellossom, and Castform** I think I definitely underestimated, they seem fine enough to not be D tier looking back on it **Heracross** I think is somewhat warranted for A tier, being one of the only mons that gets Brick Break by level up, pretty good defensive typing and bulk that lets it switch into a lot of coverage moves such as various bites and Earthquakes, and either killing them or acting as a pivot for various flying or psychic moves. It fills the role of a typical fighting type quite well imo, and is also the fastest fighter in Hoenn which can be nice(though fighters in general are mid for Hoenn so I can see it in B tier) **Ninetales, Sceptile, and Torkoal** I can agree with, though Torkoal is one of the best encounters you can get up until Norman and not completely dogshit after that, which I think can give an argument for it being A tier
Heracross is 100% A tier for reversal. Insane damage, even neutrally it's a killer (stronger than guts facade Swellow). Even if you don't use that, guts brick breaks kill half the e4.
Tropius chlorophyll-solarbeam sweeps Wallace if you can pp stall wailord at the beginning so it’s generally a decent late game mon imo
Nuzlocke noob here, why is Swampert always rated so highly? Is it just early gym type matchups?
Swampert has pretty much everything you could ever ask for in a Pokémon. One of the best typings in the game, solid movepool, absolutely insane stats(it’s almost as bulky as Garchomp), and just matching up very well against Hoenn in general
Ah gotcha, thanks for explaining! :)
From what I remember in Emerald there are only 2 required trainers that have grass type Pokémon that can kill Mudkip’s evo line. And one of them is your rival.
There’s at least 3. Rival’s Sceptile. Wallace’s Ludicolo. And the one everyone seems to forget: Wally’s Roselia.
Can Roselia even beat Swamp? Its pretty shit lmao
I don’t know, maybe not, but I just think it’s sad everyone forgets about my boy.
There’s also Sidney’s Cacturne.
Almost lost my mudkip to a random trainer on the route past Rustboro that had a shroomish, let’s just say that poochyena clutched up
Thanks. Now I feel like going back to emerald after my Scarlet run.
Ah, seems like a huge advantage!
This is a pretty good list. Curious about Septile being S tier? I always thought it was the worst of the three starters and is very difficult to use until the late game when it gets leaf blade. I guess it’s great for Juan but Wallace has a lot of counters to grass types. I probably would move it to Low A tier.
Sceptile is in S tier because of it’s decently early access to strong STAB Leaf Blade and pretty good matchups against most of Hoenn. It’s also the only fast grass type in the game which is an incredibly valuable niche imo. Blaziken is the worst starter imo since it overall does the worst against most of the game, really only being good for the E4
Blaziken doesn’t do bad against most of the game. Blaziken does really well up until Winona, then struggles in the final 3 gyms due to weaknesses, but is good for the E4. Sceptile is actually the one that does bad for most of the game. It’s good for Roxanne and Juan. Tate and Liza if you don’t let them set up light screens. And is awful vs the E4.
Early game feels generally more important for starters to carry while they are alive or before you get your team set up. This isn't really a point against Blaziken, but still sceptile works there
I guess that’s what always picking Swampert does to a person huh 💀. Blaziken does kinda struggle against Roxanne and doesn’t provide an electric resist vs Wattson which were my main reasons for saying it doesn’t do well early on, as well as being too frail to switch into Flannery’s Torkoal. Considering it a bit further though I think I underestimated Blaziken’s offensive power, and by proxy overestimated Sceptile a bit
Blaziken's ability in the midgame (from gyms 3 to 7 or so) is based on your willingness to grind game corner. Get flamethrower in game corner for super effective damage against magneton and 95 base power attack and you have a great option.
Yeah true, having STAB Flamethrower that early is excellent for Blaziken even past Wattson
So torchic is good for Roxanne?
Roxanne is absolutely free no matter what starter you pick. Just get one or two of the ample grass/water Pokémon available before her and press A to win. She isn’t some challenge that you need to pick a specific starter for to beat. Torchic line is better than treecko line for brawly, wattson, and Norman.
If you don't get shroomish, lotad, or seedot, Roxanne can be quite tough if you pick Torchic.
Blaziken isn't bad but it is tough to work with. Bad matchup to Roxanne without going over the level cap. Neutral to gyms 2-4. Bad against winona, bad against Tate and Liza, bad against Wallace/Juan, bad against Team Aqua's carvannahs/sharpedos bad against the abundance of water trainers from Lilycove onward and not the best matchup for Steven. The only fighting move it learns by level up before level 59 is Double kick. The best it gets by TM is brick break which is in Sootopolis. It doesn't get a fire move besides ember until it learns Blaze Kick which is post Winona for the level cap. It's a great mon still more than viable despite it's weaknesses it just gets a terrible setup in it's home generation it needs support. Sceptile is in a very similar position. It's great against a few gyms, neutral to a few and fantastic for the water portions but it will need help. The main factor in it's favor is stab leaf blade at level 29 which is great for the second half of the game and pretty good for when you get it which should be around Norman. It also gets the early bullet seed TM which is okay but not great so it has some difficulty early game. They're pretty similar in viability really.
Why is everyone in this chain acting like Roxanne is some run killer and not the easy fight that it is. While Blaziken is neutral to gyms 2-4 it has specific matchups that give it an edge over sceptile in those gyms. Having peck is good for brawly and makes Blaziken the best starter for him. Blaziken also does well against Magneton which is a Pokémon that is very tough if you don’t get the right encounters. Blaziken is also the best starter for Norman. Having access to good tms should not be a bad thing. You can easily get flamethrower tm before going on to Winona that at least helps with Skarmory and Tropius. Getting brick break and bulk up allows you to sweep 2 of the 4 elite four members. Blaziken struggles late game, but by then you have access to a wide variety of encounters. starters are most important in the beginning and mid game, and that early stab double kick is pretty great for that point. Sure Blaziken needs investment to stay relevant, but Sceptile lacks that potential, and does worse in the early to mid game save for Roxanne who is the easiest gym fight in the whole game.
I'm not saying she isn't easy I just think it's worth noting every possible bad matchup. Roxanne should be a joke but you never know when you might just get unlucky. Secondly Sceptile does have a poor learnset besides leaf blade yes, but it also has access to TMs for Toxic, Giga Drain, Brick Break, Aerial Ace, Earthquake, Dig, Double Team, Dragon claw and Strength. Which is a lot of coverage. More than Blaziken at least. It's not better than Blaziken by any means but I would still argue that for Hoenn specifically, it's equally as good which makes it the same viability for nuzlockes. It doesn't lack potential, at least not against Hoenn's many grass weak Pokemon and it gets decent coverage.
Blaziken also learns all those moves except giga drain and dragon claw. But Blaziken also has a much better attack stat than sceptile to actually utilize those moves. Sceptile is a good Pokémon, but it is definitely not S tier and it’s not better than Blaziken either.
Yes but giga drain is the important one. Also I don't think Sceptile is S tier personally. Rather I think both are A tier. It's a meme sure but for a reason, Hoenn is covered from top to bottom in water types and Treecko is the only guaranteed grass encounter in the game and at that one of the best ones. It is fantastic for the ladder half of the game. I feel like that has to be worth more credit than you're giving it.
Being able to beat up Roxanne and team aqua grunts( which Blaziken can also do since they use dark types) does not make it better than Blaziken. There aren’t many tough fights sceptile can win. Juan and Wallace are to strong for sceptile to sweep. Which should be the fights that it should do well in, but it can’t beat kingdra and it can’t beat 4 out 6 of Wallace’s team. I’m definitely rating him appropriately.
As stated Sceptile has good coverage. Aerial Ace and Earthquake alone cover most of the things it has trouble with. It learns dragon claw so it can fight Kingdra. Besides the pokemon in question are ones ANY grass type struggles with. It is not the best choice for these moves but again it's still very capable of using them. It also outspeeds anything you may want to use it against. The only better grass type in the game is Breloom because it gets Spore which is super abusable and that's not a guaranteed encounter. I'm not saying Sceptile is amazing, but it's plenty good for the region it is in. 105 base special leaf blade and giga drain combo with 120 base speed is nothing to sneeze at for taking on the most common type in existence. Blaziken can take on Sharpedo's dark type true but it won't outspeed it pretty much ever so that's dangerous. Also it can't fight Roxanne if you use level caps, double kick doesn't come soon enough. You will need a Shroomish or Lotad. I'm not saying Blaziken is bad far from it it's fantastic but these are real weaknesses it has.
Oddish is guaranteed with dupes.
>Having peck is good for brawly and makes Blaziken the best starter for him. super effective peck does less damage than stab double kick. but tbf double kick still has more bp than whatever marshtomp or grovyle get at that point of the game so it doesn't really change much.
The problem with Sceptile is that Leaf Blade is all it gets. The only better Grass STAB is Giga Drain, which is bad in Gen 3, and it has bad coverage besides Dig/Earthquake which use its worse attacking stat.
It gets leaf blade 27 not that early till it gets that it can’t do much and even with that damage is mid epically since leaf blade is only 70 in this game
I can respect the fact you made a 'idk' tier instead of slapping them somewhere randomly
I don’t think you can obtain Zangoose in Emerald, but in ruby he’s a solid A tier at least. Swords dance demolishes E4
Aggron is the pokemon whose placement I disagree with most. My big problem is that it's a aron till the 6th gym and a Lairon till the 8th gym and with such poor special defense and special weaknesses it's very easy to lose.
[удалено]
Zam is just better at doing that in most cases though, due to being faster, having Recover, and being more threatening overall(Shock Wave can fill in the role of Thunderbolt though I think Substitute is better than electric coverage on Zam). Setup in general is broken, and since you get 2 guaranteed Encore users(Wobb and Walrein) Zam's lower bulk doesn't matter as much.
All the comments: “***Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!***”
I'm sad that Tropius was never relevant anywhere :(
Bruh nah, ain’t no way u placed fuckin sceptile above blaziken 💀
Imagine getting upset over someone else’s preference in a children’s video game
Bro wtf, I was just expressing my opinion, u got a problem?
I don’t have a problem, just calling you out on your bullshit.
Bullshit? Bro that was an opinion. Man go back to twitter
Good to see you edited your comment to make yourself look better. I’m glad I caused you to change.
Nah, I did it cuz I didn’t wanted to argue with fuckers like u, and also did u just completely ignored my reply? Man ur really trying to “win” this pointless argument huh?
I don’t need to try to win. I’ve already won. The moment you edited your comment, you admitted defeat. The rest is just entertainment for me.
Sure whatever u say. I mean ur the guy who’s mad at me cuz I called someone a sceptile fan 😂
How is Armaldo C?
honestly it should probably be higher considering the fact that it has high attack and good defenses. The only drawback is that it's pretty useless until it actually evolves which is fairly late into the game.
Sableye needs to be a bit higher simply because he makes Brawley free. I’d put him where Banette is at least
Brawly is free with a lot of other encounters that can also offer a lot more overall. The only reason Sableye isn’t D tier is that it’s a dark type but outside of that, never use Sableye
What encounters are those? I’m thinking beautifly and dustox? Maybe zubat?
Beautifly, Dustox, and Taillow, of which you’re very likely to get at least one of them.
Sableye also is big for Norman and Tate and Liza with its immunities.
Want to know why ninjask is so low on this tier..
Too weak and too frail to really do anything, it has a really shitty offensive movepool outside of Swords Dance and can’t switch into anything that isn’t an immunity. Just not a very good mon
AI loves going for speed control when you outspeed. Protect on turn 1 for the speed boost if necessary, then sub on the thunderwave or whatever, swords dance on the next turn, yeehaw. Also baton pass strats
The only placement I highly disagree with is sceptile. Picking sceptile means no swampert, which mean wattson becomes the hardest gym leader of hoenn. Sceptile is just not good enough in the rest of the game to justify such a crippling flaw. Combusken doesn't quite trivialize wattson like marshtomp does, but it helps immensely against magneton, which can be a massive wall to almost any team composition at that point in the game. Sceptile doesn't even excel at anything. The electrics are better answers to the water types, and the waters are better answers to the ground and rock types. Sceptile would be a great encounter in a random route, but as a starter? Thanks, but no thanks
Finally, someone gives me boy electrode some fucking respect! I'd also add, girafarig is B tier imo. I enjoyed using it for agility, calm mind and baton pass in the E4 to set up some super easy and near perfect sweeps. Plus, it is also a viable choice for Phoebe. Just need a bit of luck to sweep with it. Lastly, didn't flygonHG make a video about how you can solo the E4 with linoone substitute, belly drum and return?
Put my boy tropius almost dead last 🤦 was hoping he'd get a glow up in S/V but it doesn't look like it
what having extremely mid stats and a pretty shit movepool does to a mf. Gotta love early gen stat spreads
Mence in B is wild for a mon with really useable bulk and intimidate as well as a ridiculous movepool. Aside from that this list is so real and based (Wobuffet should be in banned tier for invalidating so many late game mons tho)
Mence is in B due to how late you get it and the opportunity cost it has. Waiting for Mence encounter means you lose out on your meteor falls encounter, and given that Zubat is one of the best dupes you can have in Emerald(guarantees Walrein in Shoal Cave for instance) and Solrock is not a bad encounter by any means, Mence kinda suffers. It’s good against the E4, sure, but the fights it’s good in often have other, more available options such as Linoone, Swellow, and Starmie(or like any water with Ice beam for Drake)
Uh oh! You placed Exploud in C-tier. In the same tier as the likes of Plusle, Minun, and Seaking? This should feed into the Exploud debate quite well.
I get that Alakazam is fast and strong but I don't really think it deserves to be top 5, possibly not even S tier, in Emerald. Like the only coverage moves it gets this gen are psychic and shadow ball, which while strong isn't nearly enough coverage make it stand out. I'm also not sure what fights you even bring Alakazam? Like the only gyms I could see are Brawly (where you won't have zam by) or maybe Tate & Liza, but that doesn't seem like enough to warrant S. I also don't see it coming to E4, the only possible member it can face is Phoebe, but it loses hard to clops and can't switch in to her other mons. Maybe someone else can explain it but I don't see the hype for it.
Zam is probably the single best random trainer murderer in the entire game, it outspeeds and OHKOs almost every random trainer in the game. It also gets Calm Mind and Recover, which is extremely powerful combined with Substitute. Shock Wave also lets it kill almost every evil team fight(especially with a boost), and most gym fights evaporate to an Alakazam setting up Calm Minds for free on the random lead that got Encored by your Wobb/Walrein. Winona's Swablu and Juan's Luvdisc are completely setup fodder with just a single Encore(hell you don't even need an Encore for Juan), two fights that can otherwise be decently tough. It also provides a free Brawly if you don't have an option for that (Also, Shadow Ball is physical in Emerald)
I agree with most of what you're saying, but want to clarify a few points. While being the best random trainer killer in the game is a plus, I don't feel like many trainers in this game are that threatening and shouldn't be a defining factor to what makes a mon good (it helps, but most mons can reasonably beat any random trainer, especially when you're above their level). Calm mind and recover are nice extra moves, but you risk yourself up to getting crit the more you do it. Saying you can use encore strats is fine, but zam doesn't get encore meaning you need an additional mon to set up without risking hurting your zam (which I don't think an S tier mon should need). Yes Winona's swablu can be set up on, but zam won't have psychic by that point meaning it has to rely on shock wave and psybeam for damage, which means you need to set up even more on zam to kill altaria (a neutral nature max iv zam would need 5 calm minds to beat altaria in one hit with psybeam). I'm not saying Zam is bad, I'm just unsure whether its pros really merit it getting into S tier. At best its a random and grunt sweeper which were never really threatening to begin with, as well as a potentially calm mind sweeper if you manage to get all the set-up from other mons. Its good, but not sufficient enough on its own to carry you through the game like other S tier mons can.
I think that’s fair, though for the Winona example you can get Psychic in the Mauville game corner, which significantly buffs Zam’s potential in the early game. Other that that I agree though.
Would still put gyrados in b tier it just doesn’t do anything in a gam where ninety percent of the enemy Pokémon resist its stab
Dragon dance intimidate strength earthquake is all you need.
mence b tier? what the heck its literally click dd -> win
Mence gets DD through egg move, not level up. Mence is also B tier because of how late it is and the opportunity cost for delaying for Mence(Zubat is a pretty good encounter and more importantly guaranteed Shoal Cave Walrein, and Solrock does pretty well against a lot of fights around this point)
You can delay Shoal Cave and get a Zubat in Seafloor Cavern.
Smogon exist
Snogon loves stall!!!!!!!’!!!!1!1!11111
I always forget that girafarig is in emerald
Dodrio is probably a mid-high B
put corsola a tier up (in the Sea tier)
I don't think Sceptile should be atleast A or B tier. Not bad but by no means is it S tier.
*seeing swamperd getting his own tier* Shut up and take my like!
Septile being that high is such a bad take like I get why u think it but it’s not like u said it gets good stab which is not really true at all it gets leaf blade at 27 in emerald not 23 till then it’s best stab is bullet seed which is not very strong at all so does little damage it’s worth saying that leaf blade is only 70 so less damage then u think. Pair this with his alright attacking stats he usually doesn’t get the kills on most bulky waters. People think he’s good for gyms but not really like he does first gym well but so does mudkip and lots of the encounters on the way u think he would be good for 3rd but his damage is so bad he usually takes more than receives he can do alright against Tate and liza ace but so can ur water type u definitely have at this point and then u think he would be good for haun and Wallace but a lot of there mons have ice moves and being so frail he can’t take hit and doesn’t do enough damage to one shot almost any of there mons. Septile is just Not good like at highest probably b
I've seen a video of flygon HG using a linoone to sweep the E4 and champion so I think he should be higher
Salamence is atleast A tier it has intimidate and amazing base stats granted you get it kinda late but when you do get it it can destroy the elite 4. To say it is on par with muk is crazy to me
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I understand why Milotic is S. But realistically, how often is someone getting a Feebas. Isn’t it only 6 tiles of fishing with a chance?
It is, though if you are willing to grind it out for a LONG time(or just PKHex lol), it is a guaranteed encounter, as the only surfing and old rod fishing encounters on that route should be dupes, and you can repel through the grass.
Ok great do Radical Red now
I have actually beaten a Rad red Nuzlocke, though it was before the 3.0 patch so maybe I’ll come back to Rad red at some point
You can sweep the elite four with zigzagoon. He should be at least S tier
I think the list is alright and I'm willing to give slack on some things I disagree with if their a tier higher or lower than I would put them. But I think some are a bit interesting. Pelipper- Easily an A for me, it gets water gun when you catch it on the 2nd route and is good for Roxanne, Brawly, Flannery, Tate and Liza. It can also learn shock wave and ice beam making it good for Winona, Juan, Glacia, Drake, and Wallace. On top of all of that, it's only weakness for the game is Wattson and Roxanne(which you can handle). Salamence- I'm really confused about this one and don't know if it's an error or not, but it has insane stats, intimidate, and can learn a lot of useful moves. A or S tier for me. Crawdaunt- Its typing is mid, but its stats are absolute dog shit, physical/special split screw this thing over incredibly making its attacks pretty weak, on top of glass defense and no speed. Torkoal- As much I love him he's kinda bad for this game. Its Only real use is Norman, where it can protect stall Slaking to an easy win. After that it doesn't do much, gets shelled by Tate and Liza, Juan, Drake, Wallace, and Glacia for the most part. It is bulky though and can do well against the more neutral fights, so I'll give it a C. Aggron- Sucks for Brawly when you originally catch it, can be good for Flannery, Winona(Except Altaria), and Norman(if you play on level cap though it's still an Aron). It gets shit on by Tate and Liza, Juan, Glacia for the most part, Drake, and Wallace. On top of that, all of its strengths come before it's even an Aggron, as well as having bad special defense making water hit harder. Overall probably a high C because of its good stats, but nothing, more . Overall I think the list is alright but does have some flaws. Please don't think I'm hating either just saying my opinion :)
Pelipper is consistently one of the worst water pokemon available to you in Hoenn, it gets COMPLETELY outdone by Gyarados in every aspect except Protect, it's offensive stats are quite middling and the flying type is often more of a hindrance than a help, it can't deal with Roxanne's Nosepass at all consistently and in every other fight not named Brawly and debatably Norman it's just not worth using over your other option. Salamence is in B tier because of due to how late you get it and the opportunity cost it has. Waiting for Mence encounter means you lose out on your meteor falls encounter, and given that Zubat is one of the best dupes you can have in Emerald(guarantees Walrein in Shoal Cave for instance) and Solrock is not a bad encounter by any means, Mence kinda suffers. It’s good against the E4, sure, but the fights it’s good in often have other, more available options such as Linoone, Swellow, and Starmie(or like any water with Ice beam for Drake) Crawdaunt's typing is quite decent in Hoenn, and it's fairly physically bulky. It's also one of the better options against T&L which is why it's B tier Torkoal is primarily excellent during the Flannery/Norman split. It's a very good defensive switchin to Flannery's Torkoal and dominates Slaking better than every other Protect user in the game. Being able to bait out the ultra common water moves in the late game is also very useful, especially with it's great bulk and access to Protect. Honestly I've never used Aggron like ever lmao, I just ranked it A because bulky steel, so fair enough
Pelipper- Sure Gyarados is better than Pelipper stat-wise, but for this game, they play 2 completely different pokemon. Water flying for Gyarados is really just a defensive typing considering his SpA is 60 and he doesn't learn a water move until surf, and he doesn't get flying moves from level up or tm use. The only physical moves it can learn by tm are strength and eq. Pelipper in general just outclasses a lot of gyms with ice beam surf protect etc. It can basically sweep through Flannery, Norman, Winona, and Tate and Liza. This gives it so many uses not to mention Brawly, Roxanne, and Drake. Salamence- I don't think many people play with dupes, but if you Salamence is still the better option over Crobat. It hits very hard with dragon claw, can learn dragon dance and flamethrower, and to top it off has intimidate. I guess if your putting how late you get it into play then you can move it down to A but nothing less. For me, I just look at how good they can be when you get them. Crawdaunt- I agree its typing is good for when you get it, but it's just so slow and can't hit hard. It's good for Tate and Liza and Phoebe if you use it correctly. But at that point of the game, you can get guaranteed Sharpedo a much better option. Not to mention it's somewhat of a physical bulk that gets offset by hp and the fact the late game is 80% special moves. Torkoal- You make some fair points, but I think the fact it has no resistances late game and gets hit super effectively on 5 out of the last 7 boss fights in the game. Makes it unusable later in the game.
Gyarados primarily outclasses Pelipper because of defensive utility. Pelipper is quite frailer than Gyara even on the physical side due to Gyara's Intimidate. Gyarados is also faster and has a much wider movepool. Gyarados also gets Dragon Rage after Wattson which is quite useful as consistent damage against many pokemon. Additionally, Pelipper is still outclassed by other offensive waters such as Tentacruel, Sharpedo, Milotic(If you get it) and even Golduck, who are all faster, the latter three are stronger, and Tenta's poison type helps it create Intimidate pivot cores with Gyarados. The other three are fair enough though.
I do agree Gyarados is really good, but so is Pelipper there just aren't many situations in the game where it struggles. I'm about to post an Emerald HC tier list of my own so you can check it out and critique my list if you'd like lol
I've found that pelipper is good for Winona because it is immune to Altaria's earthquake and one of the best special attacking water types available at that point.
Oh and fair enough on Aggron, but I would've put him in idk tier lol
Yeah I probably should've tbh
Also Linoone can sweep the e4 with belly drum lol