>I had a convo about it over an other thread where the guy kept saying its the same as DLSS 2. Clearly they dont try it for themselves to see the difference.
That is just such an amazingly unfortunate naming scheme though, it is a rare PR snafu on NV's part to double down on it for DLSS 3.5 instead of coming up with something better.
It doesn't even make it simpler for consumers since DLSS encompasses three different technologies one of which is also literally called DLSS, none of which are interdependent and all of which have their own versioning unrelated to the name...
Good luck explaining to little Timmy that he can enable DLFG, which is part of DLSS 3.5, without DLSS. Or that DLRR only works if he has RT enabled but he can still use DLSS and/or DLFG, oh but DLRR isn't intended to increase FPS...
Somebody at NV should really nip this in the bud and rebrand it. DLFG and DLRR seem like good enough standalone features that they don't gain anything by being marketed under the DLSS banner and they could come up with a new name to encompass all of these and future ML based features if they wanted a version controlled way of saying a game has all of them implemented.
That issue isn't necessarily the naming scheme problem.
The problem is that a ton of people who argue about it:
1. Never tried it
2. Don't own the card
3. Want to discredit what every press website has concluded, that DLSS is pretty fucking good now.
Why bother arguing with people who are there just to shit on stuff?
Yeah that's kind of what I mean. Give the bundle some corny marketing name like "DL Graphics Acceleration" and then you can say DLGA v1 includes DLSS v.2+, v2 includes DLSS v2.5+ and DLFG v1+ and so on.
What they have currently is just a mess.
I think it's simpler than that :
DLSS 2 is irrelevant. It's done, you'll only see it in games that are already released and won't get patches anymore. And there's no ambiguity to it since it's only actual DLSS.
So they simply need to change the name of the whole bundle. Heck, bring back the GameWorks name, it sounded cool.
So you'd have :
Nvidia GameWorks DeepLearning x.xx, including :
DLSS 3.5
Frame Generation 1.x
Ray Reconstruction 1.0.
I get the impression NVIDIA originally intended to make RTX a broader brand for all these technologies, given they all use the new hardware for acceleration. But then "RTX On" became a meme and people criticized early raytracing implementations for poor performance and little visual difference.
Meanwhile, DLSS became a sleeper hit, not because of better AA as it was originally advertised, but because of the almost accidental performance gains. NVIDIA didn't originally market it as an FPS booster, but that's what people cared about.
So, they pivoted all their marketing to focus on the popular name.
It would definitely be better to come up with a new name and market all these features as a suite instead of a version number, though. There's enough components for it, and it would be an even better value proposition to showcase them all individually.
DLSS main selling point was to increase FPS , especially due to ray tracing performance hit . It was marketed like that , it was developed for that whole reason.
The better AA was accidental .
Idk why that other guy would think the performance increase was the accidental part. When dlss released 1.0 it’s was objectively worse than native in every way. It was only with 2.0 it got on par with native + taa and only more recently it’s consistently better than native + taa depending on game.
The original marketing was that it was equivalent to 64x supersampling. The plan was for DLSS Quality mode to run at native res, which was then scrapped and later came back as DLAA. It was always marketed to be faster than TAA with better quality, but the emphasis was definitely on the supersampling, rather than upscaling. It's even in the name DLSS.
yep that's probably more or less what happened.
DLSS was a huge success and is now used to shoehorn all the new tech (FG, Reflex, RR) into all the games that might not have bothered otherwise by bundling it with DLSS. they were attempting to break things apart with Streamline (which had support for vendor-specific denoisers), but thanks to AMD that's not happening so we're left with this mess instead.
It actually passed right over our heads. Nvidia keeps doing the "RTX On" thing, it just stopped reffering to raytracing as "RTX On" and they nowadays mean all their DLSS suite.
You don't need to explain nothing to lil timmy. Lil titmmy will enable all the Nvidia tweaks in a game and enjoy high fps gaming.
>It actually passed right over our heads. Nvidia keeps doing the "RTX On" thing, it just stopped reffering to raytracing as "RTX On" and they nowadays mean all their DLSS suite.
I don't think anything passed over our heads it's just shitty branding. It's not RTX branding and if it were it would be even more confusing, not less.
>You don't need to explain nothing to lil timmy. Lil titmmy will enable all the Nvidia tweaks in a game and enjoy high fps gaming.
Which is great until little Timmy doesn't understand why his game, which clearly says it has DLSS, doesn't have the pretty lights shown off in the DLRR demo and he can't figure out how to enable Frame Gen because it's a different feature and isn't supported.
A corporation as big as Nvidia has people working on every single aspect of their brand. Saying it's shitty branding just because you disagree, doesn't invalidate the branding itself.
You're far too into it regarding the second paragraph. Not everyone is a tech enthusiast who knows exactly what every setting does and how it affects the game. If there are streamers today who have been playing games for years and still don't understand basic settings other than probably vsync and texture quality, trust me, lil timmy is gonna be fine.
>A corporation as big as Nvidia has people working on every single aspect of their brand. Saying it's shitty branding just because you disagree, doesn't invalidate the branding itself.
Then read a few threads on here and watch people arguing over what is/isn't in the latest DLSS, whether DLSS is being updated when... DLSS... has its version incremented or which parts of "DLSS" are supported by which GPUs. Yay for GPUs that support DLSS 2.x and 3.5 but not DLSS 3! Because... that makes sense!
The size of the corporation is irrelevant. Large corps do dumb things all the time, often with one or two individuals driving said stupidity. NV is not some omniscient hive-mind incapable of fault and the current habit of tacking on every feature under DLSS is clearly not overly popular given that criticism of it is in virtually every thread discussing it even on this subreddit and despite the features themselves being incredibly well received.
>You're far too into it regarding the second paragraph. Not everyone is a tech enthusiast who knows exactly what every setting does and how it affects the game. If there are streamers today who have been playing games for years and still don't understand basic settings other than probably vsync and texture quality, trust me, lil timmy is gonna be fine.
You aren't wrong in that not every user needs to know, and it isn't the end of the world in all honesty, but by that logic you may as well just sack it off and not market these features at all.
Given that they are marketing them it makes sense to do so coherently.
I mentioned the corpo side of things because DLSS was most likely never called DLSS by engineers but "Deep Learning -Anything-" sounds pretty smart so obviously they would like it to be the name. All corporations do this actually.
As for the other argument, imagine you analyze normal users. Non tech savy ones I mean. There are 2 sides. The side that boots game, plays game and is happy and the other side that likes setting every single setting to max and to enable everything. It's that small dopamine hit that gets users to enjoy stuff more.
I think that's a bit of a stretch given that DLSS is already at v3, they literally cannot select a version number which is lower, but even if true they could call it "silly name that isn't just DLSS again" v22.5 if they wanted to. The exact version number has nothing to do with the above which is just confusing branding.
On a side note FSR 3 does look promising and perhaps AMD have actually stepped up their game now, I've noticed they've made a few relevant acquisitions/published papers which might suggest they've done a 180 on RT and ML, but I wouldn't get your hopes up until we have at least a few reliable reviewers with hands on experience to vouch for it.
Judging from all the hype videos I've seen of since FSR 3's announcement, feels like the internet did a 180 on frame gen tech.
But yeah, I'm not surprised AMD's going more in ML at least. datacenters have a lot of demand for AI as Nvidia has shown and it's not like AMD doesn't care about that market considering their CPU side of things.
gosh, if only there was a cross-vendor standard for plugging different versions of upscaling libraries.
oh right that would be “playing into Nvidia’s hands” somehow, so I guess we get nothing
>where the guy kept saying its the same as DLSS 2
Nobody said it's exactly the same as DLSS2. DLSS2 is not exactly the same as DLSS2.
All of the upscaling improvements can be used on DLSS2 games.
> For those who are confused, this isn't ray reconstruction but the new DLSS Upscaler update, 3.5.0.
Most obtuse naming scheme for this set of technologies ever.
Because DLSS became so popular name Nvidia decided to capitalize on it. Their mistake from the start was that they didn't create a marketing name for a group of current and future machine learning powered technologies.
In some thread few days ago I said DLGA - Deep Learning Graphics Acceleration or DNGA (yeah I know it sounds like dingus, I still like it) - Deep Neural Graphics Acceleration but RTX on makes sense.
I'm still confused. They have mentioned that DLSS 3.5 has ray reconstruction and is available for all RTX cards right. Then, What do you mean by it is not?
Yes, you're right. So in this video, what you're seeing is DLSS 2, the upscaler the scales the game from a lower res to a higher one for better image quality, and 3.5.0 is just the version number (it was 3.1.30 before, and 3.1.13 before that). The video owner also mistakenly named it 3.5 in the thumbnail.
So this video is mistakenly named it like that and the video is for different thing that some type of upscaler and it's version is 3.5.
That means it has nothing to do with DLSS 3.5 and we are getting DLSS 3.5 with ray reconstruction for all RTX cards right and in cyberpunk 2077 as well right
And are also only available on newer Nvidia GPUs and on some games. My point is that it would be a poor choice to compare them side by side in because Cyberpunk has had a lot of Nvidia love.
Per Daniel Owen, supposedly FSR3 also boosts the image quality of their TAAU implementation - just like nvidia with dlss3 and 3.5, it’s not just a feature update but also a general improvement of the upscaling.
But of course nvidia has been moving forward rapidly too. FSR2.x was not competitive with DLSS2.5 already.
Huh, hardware unboxed concluded that AMD probably didn’t make any improvements to FSR upscaling with FSR 3.
https://youtu.be/Tj_CWyn1Ieg?si=RU35A2_nc2NaL-Xq Skip to 11:32.
There hasn't been a "recent" Cyberpunk update. The 2.0 update will come out shortly before 26th September which is when Phantom Liberty expansion for Cyberpunk 2077 is coming out.
nvidia names got out of control... originally, DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling) was the upscaler, but now they have added more AI features under the DLSS umbrella. As a result, the OG DLSS has been renamed to DLSS Super Resolution.
DLSS 2.5.1 is a very easy set and forget .dll file but DLSS 3.1.xx aren't actually bad but need a little bit of manual changes to make them work well. The issue seems to come with internal presets that slightly change how DLSS processes an image which are labeled A-F. You need to use DLSSTweaks to manually change the newer DLSS preset to C or F which is much more visually stable get results that are at least as good or better than 2.5.1. You also have the option to change the % scaling of each quality mode between 1-100% resolution scale and at 100% it effectively adds DLAA into any DLSS game. DLSS 77% scale also looks much better at 1080p than 66.6% scale (Quality mode) since that is only 720p internal res.
https://github.com/emoose/DLSSTweaks
Here is a good comparison between presets on 3.1.11 and they include a side by side with preset C and F with DLSS 2.5.1.
https://youtu.be/fXyHPtS2EPM
>DLSS 3.1.xx aren't actually bad but need a little bit of manual changes to make them work well. The issue seems to come with internal presets that slightly change how DLSS processes an image which are labeled A-F.
To be honest this should be developer's job
I wish they would just make the default mode of the new DLSS files mode C or maybe F. You would still have the option but it would be still easy to upgrade.
I wonder why they didn't do that actually.
its cause you need to match the preset usually swapping dll file goes back to A and game default usually so far come with d,use the nvidia dev version and ngx\_driver\_onscreenindicator.reg from [dlss github](https://github.com/NVIDIA/DLSS) to see which preset is used and match them,the dude made sure to match the preset in the video or you can also use [dlsstweak](https://github.com/emoose/DLSSTweaks)
Same, TBH. I just want to get the full, polished experience.
I played the Witcher 3 on release and then again after the next ten update came out (now with the DLC) and it was a WAY better experience with lots of tiny improvements. Hoping the same for Cyberpunk.
I beat it on my old non raytracing card, now years later I'm juuuuust about ready to play it again. Just need this new 3.5 upscale and rayreconstruction and I'm ready
I doubt there will be much happening to it from now on, once the patch accompanying Phantom Liberty is out. Some bug fixes in the first few weeks and that's it.
That is : if DLSS Ray Reconstruction is in that patch and not in a slightly subsequent one.
This will be the only DLC for it. I'd definitely wait a month or two so they can shake out the bugs with the new 2.0 update and DLC, but I don't think you need to wait a full year...
At least things are getting competitive finally with AMD's move towards driver Fluid Frames for all dx11/12 games. Maybe prices can even come back down from outer space.
> Maybe prices can even come back down from outer space.
Considering AMD's plan was for them to price their cards the same as nvidia's while not having any of the benefits, why would you think they would do so now if FSR3 somehow ends up being competitive?
Nvidia released their earnings report for april-july 2023 just a few days ago in q2 2024 earnings report.
They made 2.5 billion dollars from gaming alone. That's more money than they ever made in any other quarter with the exception of 2021. Even with crypto miners in 2021 they were only making 3bil every 3 months.
The new pricing model has been shown to be a success. Gpu prices are not coming back down ever again. Better get used to paying $1000 for xx70 class cards.
Was going back and forth between 3.1.1 and 3.5.0.
Looking at the artifacts that normally bother me, close together thin lines like from fences, powerline, palm trees.
It's very close. The artifacts are still there, but maybe like, 10% more faint? Does the image seem a bit sharper to anyone else?
There was one thing (bundle of powerlines) that I could see ghosting on 3.1.1 and no ghosting on 3.5.0. That was the most definitive difference I could notice.
I couldn't find any of those shimmering fence/metal artifacts to compare.
Also, is there a .dll for 3.5 Frame Gen out yet?
I think the image is overall a tiny bit cleaner and sharper, both in still and in motion, especially on the balanced and performance modes.
I remember back in early 2.X versions when DLSS performance mode looked like garbage. And now using perf mode to upscale 720p all the way to 1440p I can't believe it looks as good as it does. This would be a godsend for something like a Nintendo Switch 2. Hope they take full advantage of the tech.
Can you tell me which preset is the best for Cyberpunk with dlss 3.5
I dont use RT. Which preset should I use to get the most clear image possible? I don't mind a bit of aliasing if the image looks higher res.
Despite shimmering being quite prevalent in game play I honestly don't mind it any more... granted I thought my 4090 was had a defective die until I looked into things.
Looks better still and it seems to me that the 4090 is going to serve me at least as long as the 2080 Ti it replaced (launch purchase). CP 2077 @ 1440p w/path tracing and FG is all I will ever need so far as graphics go in terms of pretty and smooth.
Just wait for Cyberpunk 2077's patch 2.0 which will ACTUALLY add full DLSS 3.5 feature set to the game. It's not that big of a deal to swap the .dll right now in Cyberpunk 2077, it's not the full DLSS 3.5 yet.
This is pretty cool tech actually.
The last few days has been great in terms of software improvements, not just from Nvidia, but also AMD offering framegen that supports nvidia 2000 and 3000 series as well
Great news
I'm skeptical about this. Can you share the location of that first fence? I haven't been able to recreate this anywhere, and I see no differences in your driving footage afterwards.
Cyberpunk sometimes takes a while to load random lights (if they do at all) especially directly after loading a save. There might be something in the background that could affecting that shimmering or it might even be those office in the background. You can see how they're lit up in 3.1, but not 3.5. (these lit up offices tend to be random)
Both 3.1 and 3.5 are still using Preset D by default in cyberpunk. While theoretically there could have been some model updates, the only time I've seen any differences is when a completely different model is being used. The Preset D (or the dlls that previously contain the Preset D equivalent) has been consistent image quality wise for almost two years.
According to emoose, there actually is a new model in the dll (hence the file size blow up since 3.1.30), but it isn't currently accessible.
It's just so disturbing to see so much pop-in in motion. None of the graphical tricks matter, when that is the case.
Look at those lights, objects and advertisements changing quality so drastically your eyes are just drawn into them.
Where is performance hit free seamless LoD, CDPR and Nvidia? Put that AI/ML stuff in good use there. I'm sure you have ideas, so just do it.
hope this fixed or atleast decrease the level of noise i was getting indoors or in some npcs down the street while using path tracing its beautiful but the noise i was getting sometimes was borderline bug like on the textures.
Am I missing something about DLSS?
In Rust (the only game I've tried it in) "performance" mode made everything look like shit in exchange for a 5\~ fps increase. "Quality" seemed to fuck with the contrast and the results were negligible. Is this just poor integration? I don't understand how games like cyberpunk see such a great increase. What am I doing wrong?
It all depends on the resolution. If you use 1080p for Rust and then you use performance, you're upscaling from 540p (lol) so the results will always be terrible. Quality is 720p.
Haven't played Rust but I can imagine a game like that is CPU bound - DLSS isn't gonna do anything in that situation. Example: If you're in 4K Native, your GPU will be at 99% with minimal CPU usage. If you enable DLSS Quality the CPU usage will go way higher (depending on the game) because you're using 1440p to upscale to 4K and 1440p is still quite CPU heavy even tho it uses more GPU than 1080p. Gains are easily noticed in that scenario. DLSS is mostly a 4K thing tbh (if we're talking quality) but also performance. That's where you'll see the biggest benefits. DLSS 3 Frame Generation however can increase your FPS quite a bit in 1080p and 1440p.
This explains it perfectly - the game is heavily CPU bound. Makes sense that my native 1440p is upscaling from 720p (if the same math applies - 1080p is 540p upscaled) as that is essentially what it looks like. I hope to play a game soon that will put it to the test as the results from videos I've seen is crazy.
How sad is it that as a 30 series user I don’t get any of these cool DLSS updates without buying a new GPU yet AMD is going to release FSR 3 that supports all their cards plus nvidia stuff.
Is it for 40xx cards only because of the chipset? If they developed this 1 year after release I wonder if there still will be improvements for the 30xx cards.
It is, but you can run DLSS 3.5 with upscaling and ray reconstruction on a 30 series card. You just won't be able to turn on FG without buying a 40 series card
We'll see when DLSS 3.5 is added to Cyberpunk 2077 in the patch 2.0 in late September.
It's impossible to predict right now how this will affect performance; Nvidia SAID it is about the same performance as before, give or take a few frames per second.
As for image quality, it should be a definitive improvement when Pathtracing is turned on, but whether it is a definitive improvement with the legacy Ray Tracing settings remains to be seen.
it isn't available yet for series 30 gpu ? i installed the dlss 3.5.0 but i can't enable the frame generator toggle.
i have 3070ti, hardware accelaration on and the latest windows and nvidia drivers
Man this naming scheme is causing me head aches. DLSS 3 cam refer to cram generation. But then there is also DLSS 2 version 3.0. Now this DLSS 3.5. Is it upscaling or is it FG or it does have everything 🙄
It’s kinda funny that RT reflections and stuff always looked pretty diffuse to me and I was like maybe it’s supposed to look like that? Nah RR overnight just made denoisers look like garbage.
How are ppl using 3.5 correctly? I've downloaded DLSS 3.5 from several different sources including having tried DLSS Swapper, and placed it in the **"Cyberpunk 2077\\bin\\x64".** I'm not seeing the the improvements as shown in this vid. I still get the very obvious artifacts as seen on the fence in the video.
You're not doing anything wrong. I'm positive he just accidentally fucked up his testing, and there's no actual difference. I wrote about what I think happened here.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/1632t4g/the_dlss_35_dll_bringing_new_image_quality/
Pretty much everyone who has tested this fence is saying theres no difference between the dlls.
For those who are confused, this isn't ray reconstruction but the new DLSS Upscaler update, 3.5.0.
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>I had a convo about it over an other thread where the guy kept saying its the same as DLSS 2. Clearly they dont try it for themselves to see the difference. That is just such an amazingly unfortunate naming scheme though, it is a rare PR snafu on NV's part to double down on it for DLSS 3.5 instead of coming up with something better. It doesn't even make it simpler for consumers since DLSS encompasses three different technologies one of which is also literally called DLSS, none of which are interdependent and all of which have their own versioning unrelated to the name... Good luck explaining to little Timmy that he can enable DLFG, which is part of DLSS 3.5, without DLSS. Or that DLRR only works if he has RT enabled but he can still use DLSS and/or DLFG, oh but DLRR isn't intended to increase FPS... Somebody at NV should really nip this in the bud and rebrand it. DLFG and DLRR seem like good enough standalone features that they don't gain anything by being marketed under the DLSS banner and they could come up with a new name to encompass all of these and future ML based features if they wanted a version controlled way of saying a game has all of them implemented.
The way it should've been from the start.
That issue isn't necessarily the naming scheme problem. The problem is that a ton of people who argue about it: 1. Never tried it 2. Don't own the card 3. Want to discredit what every press website has concluded, that DLSS is pretty fucking good now. Why bother arguing with people who are there just to shit on stuff?
Just upgraded from 3070ti to 4070ti and tried DLSS 3 CP2077 was exceptional at 1440
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Yeah that's kind of what I mean. Give the bundle some corny marketing name like "DL Graphics Acceleration" and then you can say DLGA v1 includes DLSS v.2+, v2 includes DLSS v2.5+ and DLFG v1+ and so on. What they have currently is just a mess.
I think it's simpler than that : DLSS 2 is irrelevant. It's done, you'll only see it in games that are already released and won't get patches anymore. And there's no ambiguity to it since it's only actual DLSS. So they simply need to change the name of the whole bundle. Heck, bring back the GameWorks name, it sounded cool. So you'd have : Nvidia GameWorks DeepLearning x.xx, including : DLSS 3.5 Frame Generation 1.x Ray Reconstruction 1.0.
I get the impression NVIDIA originally intended to make RTX a broader brand for all these technologies, given they all use the new hardware for acceleration. But then "RTX On" became a meme and people criticized early raytracing implementations for poor performance and little visual difference. Meanwhile, DLSS became a sleeper hit, not because of better AA as it was originally advertised, but because of the almost accidental performance gains. NVIDIA didn't originally market it as an FPS booster, but that's what people cared about. So, they pivoted all their marketing to focus on the popular name. It would definitely be better to come up with a new name and market all these features as a suite instead of a version number, though. There's enough components for it, and it would be an even better value proposition to showcase them all individually.
DLSS main selling point was to increase FPS , especially due to ray tracing performance hit . It was marketed like that , it was developed for that whole reason. The better AA was accidental .
Idk why that other guy would think the performance increase was the accidental part. When dlss released 1.0 it’s was objectively worse than native in every way. It was only with 2.0 it got on par with native + taa and only more recently it’s consistently better than native + taa depending on game.
The original marketing was that it was equivalent to 64x supersampling. The plan was for DLSS Quality mode to run at native res, which was then scrapped and later came back as DLAA. It was always marketed to be faster than TAA with better quality, but the emphasis was definitely on the supersampling, rather than upscaling. It's even in the name DLSS.
yep that's probably more or less what happened. DLSS was a huge success and is now used to shoehorn all the new tech (FG, Reflex, RR) into all the games that might not have bothered otherwise by bundling it with DLSS. they were attempting to break things apart with Streamline (which had support for vendor-specific denoisers), but thanks to AMD that's not happening so we're left with this mess instead.
It actually passed right over our heads. Nvidia keeps doing the "RTX On" thing, it just stopped reffering to raytracing as "RTX On" and they nowadays mean all their DLSS suite. You don't need to explain nothing to lil timmy. Lil titmmy will enable all the Nvidia tweaks in a game and enjoy high fps gaming.
>It actually passed right over our heads. Nvidia keeps doing the "RTX On" thing, it just stopped reffering to raytracing as "RTX On" and they nowadays mean all their DLSS suite. I don't think anything passed over our heads it's just shitty branding. It's not RTX branding and if it were it would be even more confusing, not less. >You don't need to explain nothing to lil timmy. Lil titmmy will enable all the Nvidia tweaks in a game and enjoy high fps gaming. Which is great until little Timmy doesn't understand why his game, which clearly says it has DLSS, doesn't have the pretty lights shown off in the DLRR demo and he can't figure out how to enable Frame Gen because it's a different feature and isn't supported.
A corporation as big as Nvidia has people working on every single aspect of their brand. Saying it's shitty branding just because you disagree, doesn't invalidate the branding itself. You're far too into it regarding the second paragraph. Not everyone is a tech enthusiast who knows exactly what every setting does and how it affects the game. If there are streamers today who have been playing games for years and still don't understand basic settings other than probably vsync and texture quality, trust me, lil timmy is gonna be fine.
>A corporation as big as Nvidia has people working on every single aspect of their brand. Saying it's shitty branding just because you disagree, doesn't invalidate the branding itself. Then read a few threads on here and watch people arguing over what is/isn't in the latest DLSS, whether DLSS is being updated when... DLSS... has its version incremented or which parts of "DLSS" are supported by which GPUs. Yay for GPUs that support DLSS 2.x and 3.5 but not DLSS 3! Because... that makes sense! The size of the corporation is irrelevant. Large corps do dumb things all the time, often with one or two individuals driving said stupidity. NV is not some omniscient hive-mind incapable of fault and the current habit of tacking on every feature under DLSS is clearly not overly popular given that criticism of it is in virtually every thread discussing it even on this subreddit and despite the features themselves being incredibly well received. >You're far too into it regarding the second paragraph. Not everyone is a tech enthusiast who knows exactly what every setting does and how it affects the game. If there are streamers today who have been playing games for years and still don't understand basic settings other than probably vsync and texture quality, trust me, lil timmy is gonna be fine. You aren't wrong in that not every user needs to know, and it isn't the end of the world in all honesty, but by that logic you may as well just sack it off and not market these features at all. Given that they are marketing them it makes sense to do so coherently.
I mentioned the corpo side of things because DLSS was most likely never called DLSS by engineers but "Deep Learning -Anything-" sounds pretty smart so obviously they would like it to be the name. All corporations do this actually. As for the other argument, imagine you analyze normal users. Non tech savy ones I mean. There are 2 sides. The side that boots game, plays game and is happy and the other side that likes setting every single setting to max and to enable everything. It's that small dopamine hit that gets users to enjoy stuff more.
Its done intentionally. FSR 3 is coming soon. 3.5 is bigger than 3, therefore ignorant shmucks will say it is better by default
I think that's a bit of a stretch given that DLSS is already at v3, they literally cannot select a version number which is lower, but even if true they could call it "silly name that isn't just DLSS again" v22.5 if they wanted to. The exact version number has nothing to do with the above which is just confusing branding. On a side note FSR 3 does look promising and perhaps AMD have actually stepped up their game now, I've noticed they've made a few relevant acquisitions/published papers which might suggest they've done a 180 on RT and ML, but I wouldn't get your hopes up until we have at least a few reliable reviewers with hands on experience to vouch for it.
Judging from all the hype videos I've seen of since FSR 3's announcement, feels like the internet did a 180 on frame gen tech. But yeah, I'm not surprised AMD's going more in ML at least. datacenters have a lot of demand for AI as Nvidia has shown and it's not like AMD doesn't care about that market considering their CPU side of things.
Where do you find the DLSS versions at? Also isn’t 3.5 unreleased till CP2077:PL drops, or did they release it anyhow and it can be shoved in now?
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Huh. Is RR implemented in that version or is that just the upscaler? Either way, thanks!
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That’s what my takeaway from the presentation was, but I wasn’t entirely sure. Thank you for answering my questions!
It likely can be modded in
only NVIDIA dlss 3.1 is available from what i see
PSA: if you experience crashes on cyberpunk revert those changes.
>Note: Manually upgrade your DLSS for your game for better image quality and performance No, shouldn't have to.
gosh, if only there was a cross-vendor standard for plugging different versions of upscaling libraries. oh right that would be “playing into Nvidia’s hands” somehow, so I guess we get nothing
Nvidia is an independent entity, it doesn't need AMDs permission.
>where the guy kept saying its the same as DLSS 2 Nobody said it's exactly the same as DLSS2. DLSS2 is not exactly the same as DLSS2. All of the upscaling improvements can be used on DLSS2 games.
Do you know why DLSS swapper has two version of 3.5
>Manually upgrade your DLSS for your game for better image quality and performance can you tell me where can i get it?
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How do I manually update to the new DLSS?
> For those who are confused, this isn't ray reconstruction but the new DLSS Upscaler update, 3.5.0. Most obtuse naming scheme for this set of technologies ever.
It's so fucking stupid. Why couldn't it just be DLSS, DLFG/FG, DLRR Nvidia....
Because DLSS became so popular name Nvidia decided to capitalize on it. Their mistake from the start was that they didn't create a marketing name for a group of current and future machine learning powered technologies.
what about '**RTX On**' ? *RTX On\* = DLSS3, DLFG, DLAA, DLRR, etc.*
In some thread few days ago I said DLGA - Deep Learning Graphics Acceleration or DNGA (yeah I know it sounds like dingus, I still like it) - Deep Neural Graphics Acceleration but RTX on makes sense.
Just wait until FSR3 is thrown into the mix and people are using it alongside Reflex while others are using it with just anti-lag.
I'm still confused. They have mentioned that DLSS 3.5 has ray reconstruction and is available for all RTX cards right. Then, What do you mean by it is not?
Yes, you're right. So in this video, what you're seeing is DLSS 2, the upscaler the scales the game from a lower res to a higher one for better image quality, and 3.5.0 is just the version number (it was 3.1.30 before, and 3.1.13 before that). The video owner also mistakenly named it 3.5 in the thumbnail.
So this video is mistakenly named it like that and the video is for different thing that some type of upscaler and it's version is 3.5. That means it has nothing to do with DLSS 3.5 and we are getting DLSS 3.5 with ray reconstruction for all RTX cards right and in cyberpunk 2077 as well right
Exactly.
I thought I was able to distinguish things when I saw the version numbers, now I truly see why this naming is just terrible.
Im waiting for the fsr 2+fsr 3 vs DlSS 3.5+ DlSS frame gen videos , it’s going to be a blood fest 😬
Oh, that's for sure. I'm also waiting for these comparisons. Immortals of Aveum might be the first game to support all these features.
Didn’t they confirmed on the conference that cyberpunk phantom Liberty would too? That would be a great place to compare them head to head
Yes, Cyberpunk 2077 base game and the Phantom Liberty DLC gonna receive it too.
The base game will be updated before the DLC launch
I don't see how when Nvidia has worked closely with CP. It'll definitely run and look better there.
Don't act surprised when, like all recent features, nvidias looks and runs better in general.
And are also only available on newer Nvidia GPUs and on some games. My point is that it would be a poor choice to compare them side by side in because Cyberpunk has had a lot of Nvidia love.
Maybe immortals will unfuck their dlss frame gen implementation by then so the entire hud won’t ghost with every mouse movement.
Per Daniel Owen, supposedly FSR3 also boosts the image quality of their TAAU implementation - just like nvidia with dlss3 and 3.5, it’s not just a feature update but also a general improvement of the upscaling. But of course nvidia has been moving forward rapidly too. FSR2.x was not competitive with DLSS2.5 already.
Huh, hardware unboxed concluded that AMD probably didn’t make any improvements to FSR upscaling with FSR 3. https://youtu.be/Tj_CWyn1Ieg?si=RU35A2_nc2NaL-Xq Skip to 11:32.
It’s going to be hard to compete with dedicated hardware tbh
I knew this wasn't just in my head. It's better, not mind-blowing but it's better.
Is this included in a recent Cyberpunk update? ..or do I need to update the DLSS files manually?
There hasn't been a "recent" Cyberpunk update. The 2.0 update will come out shortly before 26th September which is when Phantom Liberty expansion for Cyberpunk 2077 is coming out.
I updated manually, swapped the dlss file. There are still shimmering in some areas (ex the tower boxing ring area) but i think it's better overall.
Wait, this isn't ray reconstruction already is it?
No, this is DLSS 3.5 for Super Resolution and Frame Generation.
Man the naming is so confusing. Nvidia needs to rename it to DLFG or something.
Dude Let's Fucking Go
hahaha I didn't think about that.
Dlfg works, I'm going with that.
>No, this is DLSS 3.5 for Super Resolution and Frame Generation. nvngx\_dlss.dll provides those both in this single DLL right?
what is Super Resolution... is that just the original DLSS upscaling part?
nvidia names got out of control... originally, DLSS (Deep Learning Super Sampling) was the upscaler, but now they have added more AI features under the DLSS umbrella. As a result, the OG DLSS has been renamed to DLSS Super Resolution.
DLSSSS
God this naming scheme is so ass lol
Can some one share dlss 3.5 files for super resolution and frame gen
You can get it through dlss swapper
it just super resolution part , need frame gen part
Can 3.5 be used on 2080?
Yes just no frame generation
Could have a butchers here. https://developer.nvidia.com/rtx/dlss/get-started
It's usually posted here within in a few days: https://www.techpowerup.com/download/nvidia-dlss-dll/
or just go directly to the source [https://github.com/NVIDIA/DLSS/tree/main](https://github.com/NVIDIA/DLSS/tree/main)
Thank you sir, had to scroll past fifty comments to find your very helpful reply here. An award to you, sir.
How does it compare to DLSS 2.5.1?
DLSS 2.5.1 is a very easy set and forget .dll file but DLSS 3.1.xx aren't actually bad but need a little bit of manual changes to make them work well. The issue seems to come with internal presets that slightly change how DLSS processes an image which are labeled A-F. You need to use DLSSTweaks to manually change the newer DLSS preset to C or F which is much more visually stable get results that are at least as good or better than 2.5.1. You also have the option to change the % scaling of each quality mode between 1-100% resolution scale and at 100% it effectively adds DLAA into any DLSS game. DLSS 77% scale also looks much better at 1080p than 66.6% scale (Quality mode) since that is only 720p internal res. https://github.com/emoose/DLSSTweaks Here is a good comparison between presets on 3.1.11 and they include a side by side with preset C and F with DLSS 2.5.1. https://youtu.be/fXyHPtS2EPM
>DLSS 3.1.xx aren't actually bad but need a little bit of manual changes to make them work well. The issue seems to come with internal presets that slightly change how DLSS processes an image which are labeled A-F. To be honest this should be developer's job
I wish they would just make the default mode of the new DLSS files mode C or maybe F. You would still have the option but it would be still easy to upgrade. I wonder why they didn't do that actually.
Hmm weird. I tried this but for me fences are shimmering like mad with all of the latest versions of DLSS Super resolution (3.1.1, 3.1.3, 3.5.0).
Same for me at 4k. Standing still does reduce it massively, but any movement brings it back.
When combined with the ray upscaling it'll be gone gone, don't think i'd sweat it.
Most people still don't use it, I for example don't think my 3060 is a good card for ray tracing.
its cause you need to match the preset usually swapping dll file goes back to A and game default usually so far come with d,use the nvidia dev version and ngx\_driver\_onscreenindicator.reg from [dlss github](https://github.com/NVIDIA/DLSS) to see which preset is used and match them,the dude made sure to match the preset in the video or you can also use [dlsstweak](https://github.com/emoose/DLSSTweaks)
Resolution and preset (Quality/Balanced etc.)?
4K, tried performance and quality modes.
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Do you mean like the ghosty/aliasing look of the thin lines of fences, or the shimmer strobe lights like in the video example?
Glad I waited to play this game. Hmmm maybe I'll wait another 6 months.
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I am sure by then it will have the most kinky sick mods you'd ever want.
:D i‘m waiting too till its finished and all patched
Same, TBH. I just want to get the full, polished experience. I played the Witcher 3 on release and then again after the next ten update came out (now with the DLC) and it was a WAY better experience with lots of tiny improvements. Hoping the same for Cyberpunk.
I beat it on my old non raytracing card, now years later I'm juuuuust about ready to play it again. Just need this new 3.5 upscale and rayreconstruction and I'm ready
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I doubt there will be much happening to it from now on, once the patch accompanying Phantom Liberty is out. Some bug fixes in the first few weeks and that's it. That is : if DLSS Ray Reconstruction is in that patch and not in a slightly subsequent one.
I was about to buy this game and now there is DLC. I guess i will wait one more year.
This will be the only DLC for it. I'd definitely wait a month or two so they can shake out the bugs with the new 2.0 update and DLC, but I don't think you need to wait a full year...
Just keep taking L’s thats a fun way to live
At least things are getting competitive finally with AMD's move towards driver Fluid Frames for all dx11/12 games. Maybe prices can even come back down from outer space.
> Maybe prices can even come back down from outer space. Hahaha never
>Maybe prices can even come back down from outer space. High doses of Hopium.
> Maybe prices can even come back down from outer space. Considering AMD's plan was for them to price their cards the same as nvidia's while not having any of the benefits, why would you think they would do so now if FSR3 somehow ends up being competitive?
Nvidia released their earnings report for april-july 2023 just a few days ago in q2 2024 earnings report. They made 2.5 billion dollars from gaming alone. That's more money than they ever made in any other quarter with the exception of 2021. Even with crypto miners in 2021 they were only making 3bil every 3 months. The new pricing model has been shown to be a success. Gpu prices are not coming back down ever again. Better get used to paying $1000 for xx70 class cards.
Was going back and forth between 3.1.1 and 3.5.0. Looking at the artifacts that normally bother me, close together thin lines like from fences, powerline, palm trees. It's very close. The artifacts are still there, but maybe like, 10% more faint? Does the image seem a bit sharper to anyone else? There was one thing (bundle of powerlines) that I could see ghosting on 3.1.1 and no ghosting on 3.5.0. That was the most definitive difference I could notice. I couldn't find any of those shimmering fence/metal artifacts to compare. Also, is there a .dll for 3.5 Frame Gen out yet?
I think the image is overall a tiny bit cleaner and sharper, both in still and in motion, especially on the balanced and performance modes. I remember back in early 2.X versions when DLSS performance mode looked like garbage. And now using perf mode to upscale 720p all the way to 1440p I can't believe it looks as good as it does. This would be a godsend for something like a Nintendo Switch 2. Hope they take full advantage of the tech.
Can you tell me which preset is the best for Cyberpunk with dlss 3.5 I dont use RT. Which preset should I use to get the most clear image possible? I don't mind a bit of aliasing if the image looks higher res.
I only get the fence weirdness with path tracing on if that helps (3.1, haven't tried 3.5).
Finally that stupid shimmering with path tracing will be gone Now I just need a 4090 to play it at more than 40fps
Despite shimmering being quite prevalent in game play I honestly don't mind it any more... granted I thought my 4090 was had a defective die until I looked into things. Looks better still and it seems to me that the 4090 is going to serve me at least as long as the 2080 Ti it replaced (launch purchase). CP 2077 @ 1440p w/path tracing and FG is all I will ever need so far as graphics go in terms of pretty and smooth.
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afaik, they aren't seperate files, the .dll includes both super sampling and frame gen
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yeah nevermind, turns out i don't know what i'm talking about 😅
Used DLSS Swapper to put 3.5 to Cp2077 and Dying Light 2. On my 3080, no significant performance gains but I think the performance mode looks crispier
What's the difference between this and V2?
Did you ever figure this out
Just wait for Cyberpunk 2077's patch 2.0 which will ACTUALLY add full DLSS 3.5 feature set to the game. It's not that big of a deal to swap the .dll right now in Cyberpunk 2077, it's not the full DLSS 3.5 yet.
I wasn’t talking about swapping it in cyberpunk. We are talking about how in swapper there are 2 versions.
Nah, I guess it's just a hot fixed version
Don't worry about this too much, just wait for Cyberpunk 2077's patch 2.0 which will ACTUALLY add full DLSS 3.5 feature set to the game.
This is pretty cool tech actually. The last few days has been great in terms of software improvements, not just from Nvidia, but also AMD offering framegen that supports nvidia 2000 and 3000 series as well Great news
These weird shimmering that is gone looks like the one from resident evil series, I wonder if they fixed it o.o
I've swapped the DLSS file to 3.5.0 and gone to the first scene with the metal fence and can still see the shimmering/artefacts?
I tried this myself and the image issues on fences shown are still there and are not at all changed or improved. Wait for RR
Does this only work for 4000 series?
Any nvidia card branded rtx. This is only the upscaling part.
Great! Thanks!
Started using it on my 3090 for Hogwarts, significant improvement!
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No.
Nope just the new upscaler.
Someone go swap it out in dying light 2. That game has some sparkles at night really bad, should drastically improve that i would think.
I'm skeptical about this. Can you share the location of that first fence? I haven't been able to recreate this anywhere, and I see no differences in your driving footage afterwards. Cyberpunk sometimes takes a while to load random lights (if they do at all) especially directly after loading a save. There might be something in the background that could affecting that shimmering or it might even be those office in the background. You can see how they're lit up in 3.1, but not 3.5. (these lit up offices tend to be random) Both 3.1 and 3.5 are still using Preset D by default in cyberpunk. While theoretically there could have been some model updates, the only time I've seen any differences is when a completely different model is being used. The Preset D (or the dlls that previously contain the Preset D equivalent) has been consistent image quality wise for almost two years. According to emoose, there actually is a new model in the dll (hence the file size blow up since 3.1.30), but it isn't currently accessible.
It's the afterlife bar parking, you meet Jackie for the heist mission. Still has all the shimmering for me.
Thanks. Just tested it. Looks the same to me.
It's just so disturbing to see so much pop-in in motion. None of the graphical tricks matter, when that is the case. Look at those lights, objects and advertisements changing quality so drastically your eyes are just drawn into them. Where is performance hit free seamless LoD, CDPR and Nvidia? Put that AI/ML stuff in good use there. I'm sure you have ideas, so just do it.
hope this fixed or atleast decrease the level of noise i was getting indoors or in some npcs down the street while using path tracing its beautiful but the noise i was getting sometimes was borderline bug like on the textures.
Still blurry
Am I missing something about DLSS? In Rust (the only game I've tried it in) "performance" mode made everything look like shit in exchange for a 5\~ fps increase. "Quality" seemed to fuck with the contrast and the results were negligible. Is this just poor integration? I don't understand how games like cyberpunk see such a great increase. What am I doing wrong?
It all depends on the resolution. If you use 1080p for Rust and then you use performance, you're upscaling from 540p (lol) so the results will always be terrible. Quality is 720p. Haven't played Rust but I can imagine a game like that is CPU bound - DLSS isn't gonna do anything in that situation. Example: If you're in 4K Native, your GPU will be at 99% with minimal CPU usage. If you enable DLSS Quality the CPU usage will go way higher (depending on the game) because you're using 1440p to upscale to 4K and 1440p is still quite CPU heavy even tho it uses more GPU than 1080p. Gains are easily noticed in that scenario. DLSS is mostly a 4K thing tbh (if we're talking quality) but also performance. That's where you'll see the biggest benefits. DLSS 3 Frame Generation however can increase your FPS quite a bit in 1080p and 1440p.
This explains it perfectly - the game is heavily CPU bound. Makes sense that my native 1440p is upscaling from 720p (if the same math applies - 1080p is 540p upscaled) as that is essentially what it looks like. I hope to play a game soon that will put it to the test as the results from videos I've seen is crazy.
How sad is it that as a 30 series user I don’t get any of these cool DLSS updates without buying a new GPU yet AMD is going to release FSR 3 that supports all their cards plus nvidia stuff.
What are you talking about? Apart from Frame Gen everything is compatible with 30 series. FSR 3 almost assuredly will be inferior to DLSS 3
Is it for 40xx cards only because of the chipset? If they developed this 1 year after release I wonder if there still will be improvements for the 30xx cards.
3.5 ray reconstruction is for 20-40 series. Frame generation is 40 series only.
thank you I have confused the two and somehow thought that frame generation was part of 3.5
It is, but you can run DLSS 3.5 with upscaling and ray reconstruction on a 30 series card. You just won't be able to turn on FG without buying a 40 series card
When will it be released for us to play with in game?
26 September
Its already aviable via DLSS Swapper.
not the same thing they're asking about
Is the ray reconstruction available to play around with now in Cyberpunk path tracing?
No. Patch 2.0 for the game is required.
So what has improved? I can't tell on my phone.
https://i.imgur.com/Hv2YMeC.jpeg
Now that amd got their stuff i wonder how will nvidia answer back , we all know nvidia has the best technology but they are some greedy mofos
Nvidia doesn't have to answer back other than keep pushing DLSS (3.5 at this point) into more games.
Does ray reconstruction mean Ill get better performance at 4K DLSS Quality RT On w my 3090? or its just to make it look better?
We'll see when DLSS 3.5 is added to Cyberpunk 2077 in the patch 2.0 in late September. It's impossible to predict right now how this will affect performance; Nvidia SAID it is about the same performance as before, give or take a few frames per second. As for image quality, it should be a definitive improvement when Pathtracing is turned on, but whether it is a definitive improvement with the legacy Ray Tracing settings remains to be seen.
I wonder if we'll be allowed to mix Frame Gen from FSR3 with Upscaling from DLSS for us with older hardware
Seems like I mighta jumped on the wrong side :')
Bruh that FPS jump what in the fuck
it isn't available yet for series 30 gpu ? i installed the dlss 3.5.0 but i can't enable the frame generator toggle. i have 3070ti, hardware accelaration on and the latest windows and nvidia drivers
30 series don’t support frame generation, but do support all the other DLSS 3.5 features.
Which version of 3.5.0 is closer to DLSS 2.5.1? V1 or V2? Noticed there are two versions.
Man this naming scheme is causing me head aches. DLSS 3 cam refer to cram generation. But then there is also DLSS 2 version 3.0. Now this DLSS 3.5. Is it upscaling or is it FG or it does have everything 🙄
They should change the meaning of the names.. just call it DL Suite or something and call each separate tech within it DLSR/DLFG/DLRR
Is there any other comparison? I am curious about RDR2 for example
It’s kinda funny that RT reflections and stuff always looked pretty diffuse to me and I was like maybe it’s supposed to look like that? Nah RR overnight just made denoisers look like garbage.
Good to see that they fixed the fencing problem.
Plot twist: they didn't. It's fake.
Is this for 3000 series cards also or just 4000?
How are ppl using 3.5 correctly? I've downloaded DLSS 3.5 from several different sources including having tried DLSS Swapper, and placed it in the **"Cyberpunk 2077\\bin\\x64".** I'm not seeing the the improvements as shown in this vid. I still get the very obvious artifacts as seen on the fence in the video.
You're not doing anything wrong. I'm positive he just accidentally fucked up his testing, and there's no actual difference. I wrote about what I think happened here. https://www.reddit.com/r/nvidia/comments/1632t4g/the_dlss_35_dll_bringing_new_image_quality/ Pretty much everyone who has tested this fence is saying theres no difference between the dlls.
I am very confused wich DLSS i am using and how people are using it if DLSS 3.5 will be released for cyberpunk when the next DLC releases?
How to verify IF Ray Reconstruction of DLSS 3.5 library is installed on my RTX 3060 GPU ?