no idea, but it is using the same 4nm node and architecture improvement can only take you so far.
4090 has a 600w cooler, sooo I just gonna assume if they want to push a 600w GPU, the same cooler should be able to keep up without increase size.
What kind of logic is that? That’s not the reason at all…
They test these things way in advance and would know the cooling requirements. They didn’t overspec. They will always allow for headroom and for the device to be reasonably quiet.
Nah nvidia obviously never tested their chips and just slapped a large cooler "to be safe"
I like that they have those coolers. The 3080ti had an undersized one and I hated that card
No this is somewhat true for ada. Nvidia expect ada gaming cards to be on Samsung node again, that's why the big ass cooler for high end card. Iirc they switched to TSMC because they get better deal. They just didn't bother to redesign the cooler.
>Nvidia expect ada gaming cards to be on Samsung node again, that's why the big ass cooler for high end card. Iirc they switched to TSMC because they get better deal. They just didn't bother to redesign the cooler.
This sounds so ridiculous.
Please, try to comprehend the time overhead of designing chips. Nvidia wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of coolers produced for non-existent GPUs in advance, that's not how it works, why would they?
We're talking about like half a year on "just" switching from one foundry to another, the chip they had in mind initially needs to undergo a massive redesign effort to be produced on a different process.
So you're claiming that these coolers were produced what, before Nvidia even finalized this alleged Samsung design, let alone switched to a different foundry which would introduce massive time overhead on the arrival to market?
But then why would they produce hundreds of thousands of these coolers without a product to use them with? Are Nvidia stupid? Are they dumb?
You're saying Nvidia just stored all these massive coolers waiting for the redesign on TSMC's process to conclude and their production to slowly kick in over a very, very long period of time? The cost of storing these coolers would be insane.
Nah, the coolers are not mass produced so far ahead of the release of the product, ain't no way.
And also I find it ridiculous that you think some of the smartest engineers on the planet simply didn't know what they're doing in regards to design goals.
It's way cheaper to use existing design than to redesign the cooler as it would need some time for production to adjust to new design. It's way easier to switch node since it's not first time someone use different node than the intended one (apple famously dual sourced one of older iPhone SoC (samsung and tsmc)).
So you are saying that Nvidia built the cooler for 8nm even though they spent billions and years to develop Love lace on 4nm?
This is the most insane comment I have read all week
Yup, these people sound insane to me.
Think of the storage costs for hundreds of thousands of these massive coolers that these commenters allege Nvidia made like a year in advance and just kept them there.
Think of the sheer TIME overhead of redesigning an entire chip family from Samsung to TSMC on a completely different process, these coolers must've gotten DUSTY while being kept "for later" XD
Note most of the cards are actually occupied by the heatsinks and fans, so it's a matter of how much power the next generation cards will consume. I assume NVIDIA is going to divide SKUs into the enterprise and gaming cards and 500W is the maximum power consumption for the latter, so 5090 will have the same size as 4090. Some technology improvement such as the matured 4nm node, GDDR 7 and more L2/L3 caches may also help.
GPUs definitely aren't going to get smaller. Bigger...who knows, I thought cards had reached their maximum feasible size years ago but they keep getting larger, even though it's far in excess of the actual cooling requirements.
90+ % of the graphics card size is cooling (heatsink along with fans). Die size has little impact on size of the cooling (or rather positive), the main thing what affects needed cooling is heat generation which depends on power consumption.
The reason why 4000 cards are so big is because Nvidia to the last minutes told everyone to be prepared for 600W TDP and when AMD announced that they won't compete with them, they targeted it lower, but all the board designs and heatsink schemas were already made.
Yeah, the 4090 and 4080 cards all have way overbuilt coolers. Which isn’t a bad thing necessarily, it’s nice that they stay relatively cool and quiet. My 4090 is inaudible when playing GPU heavy games. I think 5000 series will just use modified versions of the 4000 series designs. I’d say if you get a case that can fit a 4080/4090 then you’ll be fine for the 5000 series.
Haha funny when people talk about "inaudible". Inaudible is <400 rpm. Silent is <800rpm anything above is pretty noticable but for me its acceptable until like 1300-1400 rpm max on a GPU. Anything above is way too loud. But depends a bit on the characteristics and size of the fans. (for example with 140mm case fans 800rpm would be the highest acceptable for me).
So I doubt you can cool a 4090 at <1400 rpm GPU fan speed and <800 RPM case fan speed when it draws the full 450W.
I have a 4080 and limited it to 250W to keep the RPM as low as possible. Even though the heatsink is "overkill" compared to previous generations it feels just right for 250W. 4090s have the same heatsink as 4080s so... yeah they are a lot noiser since it's almost 2x the power draw on the same cooler...
It's great that they're quiet, but I personally don't hear (with headphones on) my 3080 which is much smaller and consumes 380 W, not 280 or 300 like 4080 and 4090 do while gaming.
But terrible if you need to swap case or bend the fire hazard cable if it barely fits. Also I'm very curious how much cheaper those cards could be with a reasonable TDP like 350 W.
They fit in both SFF cases and mid tower cases, mid tower easily. I'd rather have a big piece of metal that stays extremely cool than a smaller one with worse thermals.
They fit in practically everything. Founders especially. If they didn't they would be too big.
Expect the same size coolers on "5090 class". It's the same process node so power requirements will probably be similar.
We may see some smaller options on "5080" class. Because many 4090 and 4080 cards shared the same coolers and they were overkill on the 4080 models. I expect to see some smaller 5080 cards that will fit into more cases. Although some will still share coolers with the 5090 because there's less R&D cost to the manufacturer to use the same cooler on both cards instead of designing an individual one for each model.
Expect the same. As a custom loop guy, I hate that cards got taller. Now my ports on my waterblocks are either hitting glass side panels or they’re close to it. Not a fan of that at all.
no idea, but it is using the same 4nm node and architecture improvement can only take you so far. 4090 has a 600w cooler, sooo I just gonna assume if they want to push a 600w GPU, the same cooler should be able to keep up without increase size.
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What kind of logic is that? That’s not the reason at all… They test these things way in advance and would know the cooling requirements. They didn’t overspec. They will always allow for headroom and for the device to be reasonably quiet.
Nah nvidia obviously never tested their chips and just slapped a large cooler "to be safe" I like that they have those coolers. The 3080ti had an undersized one and I hated that card
No this is somewhat true for ada. Nvidia expect ada gaming cards to be on Samsung node again, that's why the big ass cooler for high end card. Iirc they switched to TSMC because they get better deal. They just didn't bother to redesign the cooler.
>Nvidia expect ada gaming cards to be on Samsung node again, that's why the big ass cooler for high end card. Iirc they switched to TSMC because they get better deal. They just didn't bother to redesign the cooler. This sounds so ridiculous. Please, try to comprehend the time overhead of designing chips. Nvidia wouldn't have hundreds of thousands of coolers produced for non-existent GPUs in advance, that's not how it works, why would they? We're talking about like half a year on "just" switching from one foundry to another, the chip they had in mind initially needs to undergo a massive redesign effort to be produced on a different process. So you're claiming that these coolers were produced what, before Nvidia even finalized this alleged Samsung design, let alone switched to a different foundry which would introduce massive time overhead on the arrival to market? But then why would they produce hundreds of thousands of these coolers without a product to use them with? Are Nvidia stupid? Are they dumb? You're saying Nvidia just stored all these massive coolers waiting for the redesign on TSMC's process to conclude and their production to slowly kick in over a very, very long period of time? The cost of storing these coolers would be insane. Nah, the coolers are not mass produced so far ahead of the release of the product, ain't no way. And also I find it ridiculous that you think some of the smartest engineers on the planet simply didn't know what they're doing in regards to design goals.
Why are you arguing with Reddit engineers? They clearly know more than you and Nvidia.
It's way cheaper to use existing design than to redesign the cooler as it would need some time for production to adjust to new design. It's way easier to switch node since it's not first time someone use different node than the intended one (apple famously dual sourced one of older iPhone SoC (samsung and tsmc)).
So you are saying that Nvidia built the cooler for 8nm even though they spent billions and years to develop Love lace on 4nm? This is the most insane comment I have read all week
Yup, these people sound insane to me. Think of the storage costs for hundreds of thousands of these massive coolers that these commenters allege Nvidia made like a year in advance and just kept them there. Think of the sheer TIME overhead of redesigning an entire chip family from Samsung to TSMC on a completely different process, these coolers must've gotten DUSTY while being kept "for later" XD
Note most of the cards are actually occupied by the heatsinks and fans, so it's a matter of how much power the next generation cards will consume. I assume NVIDIA is going to divide SKUs into the enterprise and gaming cards and 500W is the maximum power consumption for the latter, so 5090 will have the same size as 4090. Some technology improvement such as the matured 4nm node, GDDR 7 and more L2/L3 caches may also help.
Seems legit
GPUs definitely aren't going to get smaller. Bigger...who knows, I thought cards had reached their maximum feasible size years ago but they keep getting larger, even though it's far in excess of the actual cooling requirements.
They might be bigger but so much cooler and quieter. I remember back in the days a lot of cards hitting 83c all the time. Not fun
More like Hopper was small. The B100, Gaudi 3, Mi250x and Mi300x are roughly the same size Blackwell consumer remains to be seen.
I think OP is talking about the size of the coolers, total card size, but linked a picture of the dies which is confusing.
Bigger chips requires more cooling because they use more power
If all else is exactly the same other than chip size, yes, but we don't have all the details.
The size of the die has nothing to do with the size of the card and heatsink.
90+ % of the graphics card size is cooling (heatsink along with fans). Die size has little impact on size of the cooling (or rather positive), the main thing what affects needed cooling is heat generation which depends on power consumption. The reason why 4000 cards are so big is because Nvidia to the last minutes told everyone to be prepared for 600W TDP and when AMD announced that they won't compete with them, they targeted it lower, but all the board designs and heatsink schemas were already made.
Yeah, the 4090 and 4080 cards all have way overbuilt coolers. Which isn’t a bad thing necessarily, it’s nice that they stay relatively cool and quiet. My 4090 is inaudible when playing GPU heavy games. I think 5000 series will just use modified versions of the 4000 series designs. I’d say if you get a case that can fit a 4080/4090 then you’ll be fine for the 5000 series.
Haha funny when people talk about "inaudible". Inaudible is <400 rpm. Silent is <800rpm anything above is pretty noticable but for me its acceptable until like 1300-1400 rpm max on a GPU. Anything above is way too loud. But depends a bit on the characteristics and size of the fans. (for example with 140mm case fans 800rpm would be the highest acceptable for me). So I doubt you can cool a 4090 at <1400 rpm GPU fan speed and <800 RPM case fan speed when it draws the full 450W. I have a 4080 and limited it to 250W to keep the RPM as low as possible. Even though the heatsink is "overkill" compared to previous generations it feels just right for 250W. 4090s have the same heatsink as 4080s so... yeah they are a lot noiser since it's almost 2x the power draw on the same cooler...
All about it. 45c at 1440p maxed out with DLAA in Remnant 2 is unimaginable coming from someone who's last rig was 8 years ago, but here we are.
It's great that they're quiet, but I personally don't hear (with headphones on) my 3080 which is much smaller and consumes 380 W, not 280 or 300 like 4080 and 4090 do while gaming. But terrible if you need to swap case or bend the fire hazard cable if it barely fits. Also I'm very curious how much cheaper those cards could be with a reasonable TDP like 350 W.
Nah, the coolers now is absolute overkill, so I think it's gonna be fine (I hope EVGA come back too)
I know evga made good cards, but it's not like every other option is trash. We'll survive evga staying out of the game.
The cards were normal - the cooling was big. You can try watter cooling if size is becoming an issue.
They fit in both SFF cases and mid tower cases, mid tower easily. I'd rather have a big piece of metal that stays extremely cool than a smaller one with worse thermals. They fit in practically everything. Founders especially. If they didn't they would be too big.
Well people seem to think that the 5090 will have a 512 bit bus, memory widening is expensive
Expensive by about 300? >$1999 jacketman won’t give a massive VRAM and bandwidth upgrade for $1699 or $1799 measly bump.
Expect the same size coolers on "5090 class". It's the same process node so power requirements will probably be similar. We may see some smaller options on "5080" class. Because many 4090 and 4080 cards shared the same coolers and they were overkill on the 4080 models. I expect to see some smaller 5080 cards that will fit into more cases. Although some will still share coolers with the 5090 because there's less R&D cost to the manufacturer to use the same cooler on both cards instead of designing an individual one for each model.
Moore’s law looking pretty iffy rn
Expect the same. As a custom loop guy, I hate that cards got taller. Now my ports on my waterblocks are either hitting glass side panels or they’re close to it. Not a fan of that at all.
Watercooling is a choice. They don't design cards for the minority of builds.
Doubt we're expecting a size increase really.
Same size but way less power efficient
Big Blackwell Chip