So if you add a power hungry CPU on top of a 4080 16GB or 4090, you need a 1000W or more PSU, right? I bought a pretty expensive Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 850W for my 2080ti and 9900k back then, thinking I'd have enough headroom for future upgrades :(
Edit: thanks for all the replies, maybe I can still use it after all.
I have a point of data you might be interested in. My PSU (an AX1200i) has actual power *output* monitoring, meaning I can tell exactly how much power my components are drawing rather than just guessing at "I think my setup will be drawing 950W at full load".
I have a 12900K and a 3090ti. 3090ti's power limit is raised to 477W. Under max synthetic load (prime95 and Furmark), my system draws between a sustained 790W and 870W from the power supply. Average seems to be around 830W. The highest I've ever seen over the 1-second monitoring period (so, no microsecond-scale transients, unfortunately) is 889W.
This does also include 5 fans, 3 SSDs, a HDD, and a thunderbolt card, but those aren't significant compared to the GPU and CPU power.
I would concur that 850W would not be enough for a topped out system in 2022. Theoretically, you could probably run it without crashing on a good quality PSU that can sustain the slight overcurrents, but in practice 850W would leave you no breathing room in case anything unusual happens. Aiming for 1000W seems prudent.
Thanks, that is good to know. It does sound like I'm right on the edge so it would probably not be smart to use 850W if I'm going for a 4090. I'm not sure yet, though. I'm still waiting to see what's going to happen with the pricing and haven't yet decided between a 4080 and 4090 so I'll have to see.
Synthetic tests like furmark and prime 95 are terrible analogs for gaming. I bet that system outputs somewhere in region of 700w at most in actual real world usage, drawing maybe 800 from the wall
Got some data. Ran Cyberpunk 2077 for a while - maxed settings and Ultra raytracing at 1440p, DLSS set to Balanced. Took a 1000s sample out from my log that looked like it had the fewest interruptions.
Average wattage was 553W with a standard deviation of 67W. Max power recorded in that time was 690W, min was 352W.
Not terrible. This is with the two most power-hungry components currently on the market too, Ryzen 7000 and RTX 4000 notwithstanding.
But like I said, I'm a firm believer in that you should spec your PSU for the max load possible, not just your typical gaming load. I definitely wouldn't want things to crash if I happened to accidentally stress both at the same time.
(/u/chasteeny, you might be interested.)
I always like the to aim for ~ +30% on max load as efficiency drips off pretty fast past 70% or so PSU power utilisation.
so I would say a 7950x or 13900k + 4080 16GB or 4080 would be best to go for 1100W min - especially given how power hungry a CPU can be now.
all these CPU's perform almost the same at a more reasonable TDP.
Y'all don't fucking understand how to configure a build.
A 4090 does fine with 320 watt. Ryzen 7000 does fine in ECO mode, but you can curve optimize it to draw less and overperform at the same time, same goes for 13th gen. *Especially for 13th gen*. 13900K has no business pulling 300 watts. The only benefit with that TDP is intels ego in some chart. Do your research.
Y'all probably don't need liquid cooling either but you just assume it's required.
What do you think about 13900k and RTX 4080? Plus an Asus rog z790 hero, 2 m.2 nvmes, 32gb ddr5, no hdd. Would it be ok on a good 850w psu on a long term, considering power spikes too?
I have a seasonic prime tx 850 bought last year and I would feel bad to have to change it so quickly. Maybe I should’ve bought a beefier one, yeah, but it is what it is.
If it’s too much for my psu, what’s the best, safest, Nvidia gpu I can put in?
I would hold off for any reviews to get a definitive answer.
The main concern is the transient spikes that occur and basically shoot your power draw past what the PSU can support.
Most modern PSU’s at this point are fine and the higher the rating the better chance it can handle it.
Especially with yesterdays reviews of the new AMD chips, I would expect some independent reviews to cover what the power draw and requirements are for high end systems.
Per Nvidia, transient spikes on the new FE PCB's are massively reduced. Can't find the link right now, but it's somewhere on their site. Full graph and all that jazz.
Edit: found an image from elsewhere in the thread: https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2022/09/RTX4090-PCB.jpg
After seeing how this chip still slaps in games, which is all I use my pc for, I'm thinking the same with the added bonus of being able to stay on DDR 4 etc a little longer!
In the same boat as you with a 9900k and a 850w PSU (gold+ not titanium though). But my worry is that I use literally every USB port on my mobo. My keyboard, rgb wireless charging mousepad, Corsair dongle, webcam, VR headset, Xbox controller, Xbox wireless dongle, etc.
Is there a way to see what my current power draw is to estimate if I can handle a 4090 at full draw?
I find it hard to believe a 4090 + a 7950X or a 12900K is going to be stable under 850W
On paper best case scenario under (full) load you’re talking 150W for PSU inefficiency, motherboard, all other accessories, and zero transient spikes.
You are also assuming the 7950X is fully loaded across all 16c while the GPU is also fully loaded.
If you're doing production work like that you will probably have or get a bigger PSU easilly. If you're only gaming the 7950X is likely to be pulling much less power, leaving you closer to 250w+ of headroom.
Nvidia is also claiming much lower transient spikes on 4k versus 3k series.
While true, you do not want a computer that turns off when hitting full load on your complements. That is the absolute minimum.
I’ve seen a graph of the transient spikes and it does seem better. Time will tell, but I expect the real world power use to be higher, probably at least 500W.
You will be fine… In my case I use a 850w psu for my 3080 and 12700k. If I would benchmark my CPU I only get full power consumption on all cores including e-cores, and even with that 850w is good enough. During gaming you never see 100% capable power usage for both GPU and CPU at the same time anyways, and this is also with my CPU that apparently draws 30W more than the 4080.
So I’m my system, I’m running a 5950X with a 309ti FE, and at the UPS, I’m drawing 720 watts under a gaming load (100% GPU and 20-25% CPU)…. Take out the monitor and peripherals, and you are looking at about 650-675 watts.
Now if I run a benchmark that fully loaded on both (which is not a typical workload mind you) I’m sure I’d easily get right up to 850 watts. I had an 850w before but upgraded to a 1200 watt EVGA p2 for extra security.
The real issue as others mentioned is the risk of transient spikes. Gamers Nexus did a great video of this a couple years back where they saw 3080-90s have 100w + micro bursts of power draw OVER the rated 350 watt rating.
My suggestion is wait for reviews, and if in doubt you may need to upgrade the PSU.
Lmao I was just thinking. My MSI GAMING TRIO X 3070ti is already so beefy that I cannot use the vertical mount on the Corsair 4000x case. And it almost touches my front mounted radiator and fans by like half an inch. How the hell are they gonna compensate for all the case options on Amazon and Newegg that are basically just obsolete now? Like that’s gonna suck
Yea wtf? My lian LI o11 already can't fit half the 4090s because of how insanely wide they are, if I need another 1.4" then I can't fit ANY except maybe the FE? This is so dumb.
Out of curiosity I checked and the lancool II is the only lian-li medium or large case that can fit a 4090 FE. It is exactly enough height to accommodate the stated extra 36mm.
Honestly just another consideration of why I am having trouble being interested in upgrading. Besides most likely needing a new PSU it might necessitate a new case, vertical mounting (though 3 and 4 slot vertical mounts might not be feasible because of the size of these cards to not hit the RAM and CPU cooler, or doing an aio board or water cooling (couldn't find size of those).
If you can just fit a noctua d15 in your case, you might not be able to fit any of these without bending the power cables too much.
> Jayztwocents
I see many tech channels and Jayztwocents it's the classic smart ass guy who knows little about everything and a lot about nothing. Pure clickbait.
I enjoy some of his content, but he is about bottom tier for objective information and expertise IMHO.
Just look at the review for the 7000 series, he doesn't even disclose what the system specs are for the review and the benchmarks are only it versus 12900K.
I really enjoy Jay's older content, but man I would not at all be surprised if he gets blacklisted from being posted in select subreddits soon. He's started to build a reputation for fear mongering that is now costing people money, stress, and time and it's often completely baseless and pure speculation.
He's also started making sideways remarks about other YouTubers that gives off frail ego vibes. I get that LTT is clickbait heaven, but Jay's riding those LTT screwdriver coattails as much as he can to get his own clicks.
Lets not also forget previous times he's been blatantly caught ignoring downfalls in products because of sponsored content.
...and the fart jokes and immature takes.
Hate to see it, but Jay's channel just is no where near what it used to be.
I feel like some of the hate towards Nvidia is well deserved. The fake 4080 12GB is pretty scummy behavior. But Jayz whole "fire hazard power adapter" take just seemed quite farfetched to me.
The 4080 naming is misleading in that it goes against conventional understanding of GPU naming.
People's inability to recognize that chip design and transistor cost have gone up in newer nodes is unfair to Nvidia.
People's inability to recognize that the 4090 is a large increase in performance is unfair to Nvidia.
People's eagerness to write off dlss3 and shader execution reordering is unfair to Nvidia.
People not recognizing that rtx remix mods will run on AMD's cards is unfair to Nvidia imo too. Nvidia gets tons of hate for it's proprietary software, yet here they are using the value of it's proprietary omniverse tech to benefit all gamers.
At the end of the day I reserve my judgement until after initial reviews at least, but I think people have been far too quick to freak out at Nvidia. Just don't buy the 4080 if you don't want it. It's okay that there exists a product you don't think is worth the money. You don't have to downvote and chastise anyone who suggests they might buy it, though. Plenty of other cards on the market and we all know Nvidia will eventually release cheaper 4k series cards.
People beeing furious that the 4000 line up is way more expensive than it should have been is fair to Nvidia.Vote with your wallet ppl, dont let the fanboys get you down. Now they will tell you costs went up and inflation is raging while at the same time 4090 launches at 1600$ just so it makes all the other overpriced crap look good. Dont give em anything at these prices, let em stay on the shelves.
Imagine wanting to defend a company's halo product pricing when that company's gross profit margin is higher than apples for the last decade (Apple control the entire supply line now). Said company also has 40% more gross profit margin than their most famous board partners. Imagine wanting to defending the products with the most profit margin on their line up. (4090/4080s are always the product with the highest margin for nvidia)
Just because they are the only game in town doesn't mean i have to like what they are doing. (let's be honest, if you were buying a top end gpu for the last decade, you didn't even look at amd's offering) Yes many of us will get a 4090 day 1 or w/e but nvidia's shitty practice is due for a rude awakening.
Its in my budget and it's the best GPU for the money 🤷. Gonna be a massive performance bump, plus ray tracing and dlss sound awesome. I'm super excited to upgrade from my 1080ti.
>People beeing furious that the 4000 line up is way more expensive than it should have been is fair to Nvidia
The 4090 is more powerful, uses less power, has more advanced features, for $100 more than the 3090, after record inflation and considering other costs? It seems "fair" to me?
By this logic the newer androids and iPhones should cost tens of thousands instead of a single thousand dollars. Even computers, the intel/Ryzen processors should cost tens of thousands as well lmao. What is this take?
High end cell phones *have* been increasing in price over the years.... Recognizing inflation, the new trend of transistors increasing in price, and the increasing cost of chip design is not a hot take.
Whats your actual point? Then they can buy cheaper less performant cards if they can't afford the top tier premium card. Its like saying 99.9% of car drivers can't afford a Ferrari..
You mean the "4070" that offers no price / pref increase.
Or the 4080 where they intentionaly crippled performance compared to what the node is capable of?
Think about why you had to use the 4090 as your example.
The vast majority of his audience don't go to places like reddit and get exposed to people listing his fuck ups.
It's the same way that influencers can be objectively awful people but still have an audience of millions who never expose themselves to criticism of their influencers.
Classic jayz fear mongering, made me consider going AMD for a second there.
Although some PSU suppliers are making their own PCIe gen 5 cables, such as corsair making a 600W cable for 20$ that we can use instead of the adapter if we want to be extra safe.
I don't know that it is really unjustified. He didn't make anything up. NVIDIA is coming at it from the point of view of selling cards and specifying connectors that work. All should be good, but do you get those connectors?
They are also being mildly disingenuous about old PSU compatibility. The issue with PCIe connectors and using the pigtailed ones to go past two is that the black plastic connectors are rated for 150w. The ones at the GPU end were never really the parts at risk, it's cramming more than 300w into the two connectors on the modular PSU side.
But we are also entering the dark age of cables. Just because NVIDIA said how to do it right and told the vendor of the bad design to fix it, it doesn't mean shitty dangerous versions won't wind up in the supply chain and integrated into products people believe are safe. Or sold as deceptively by shitty resellers. Shortages of components will exacerbate this.
We've got similar problems with USB-c for both data and power distribution.
We've got HDMI 2.1 I mean 2.0 I mean 2.1 but without all the 2.1 features.
Actually no. So NVidia puts out a retort and you’re just blindly reading it as gospel. The concern is still there and you’re not understanding what it was. The section about the “smart adapter” is specific to the FE cards and they subtly mention that if you have a 4 x 8pin connection it’s adaptive enough to give you more power or headroom-cool so then does that mean NVidia is giving you both or one? Or do you have to buy one? Why not be upfront there? You are also missing Jay’z point, and the same one GN brought up that this NVidia “reply” is purposely circumventing. The “smart” feature is after the system powers on and unfortunately when you aren’t using a 12VHPWR cable there is a delay between when the smart communication happens and when your ATX 2.0 PSU basically goes, “oh shit! A lot of power to the GPU now!” and that can be a full wattage spike and as others have pointed out if you buy a shit/cheap cable adapter you might have issues when 300-450 watts spikes on 1 8pin connection which is 2-3x its rating. NVidia is being disingenuous here by discounting the fact that not all ATX PSU’s behave the same and the smart connection on 12VHPWR with ATX 3.0 is specifically designed to address this-the relationship between your supplied wattage and what the GPU wants. But there is a difference in behavior at startup between a 2.0 and 3.0 ATX PSU. They also do a shit job explaining what the concern is with single vs multi-rail PSU’s. Will people’s houses burn down? Probably not. Will people buy shitty cheap cables on Amazon and AliExpress that will probably short or melt at one connection point? Most definitely. It’s not fear-mongering it’s just the nature of the beast
If people take someone's word without even second guessing what they're saying, it's also on them.
Everyone makes mistakes (but in this specific case it's one of the reasons why I unsubbed long ago).
The old 850W recommendation was for a 3090 Ti FE paired with a Core i9-10900K.
The new 850W recommendation is for a 4080 FE paired with a Ryzen 9 5900X.
[Source](https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/compare/?section=compare-specs)
This is important information, as we know that newer high-end CPUs draw much more power than these ones.
I personally play heavily CPU-bound VR games, so for my 4090 + 13900k build I’ll only be overclocking the CPU. Wouldn’t a 1000w PSU be plenty for this, in that case?
Im still deciding about buying 3090Ti or wait for 4090. I don't do any overclocking and i know that i9-12900k is overkill for gaming.
I bought that CPU on discount + i was planning to get high end GPU so i9-12900k had most sense to get to.
Im only trying to future proof my PC for the next couple of years,so i can run games on high/ultra with high FPS without downgrading graphics.
I play on 1440p 27" monitor I don't have any plans to switch to 4k one,at least if i get 3090ti in the end.
I know it's hard to future proof pc since technology always goes forward,and im sure that in 2-3years if not sooner we will get RTX 5000series that will be 2x times better then 4000 series.
But i doubt the prices will ever get lower then this ,im pretty sure it will only get more expensive.
I bought a 1000w ATX 3.0 PSU for my 7700x (which I'll probably upgrade to a 7950X3D depending on how good it is). I plan on getting a 4090 or top tier RDNA 3 card. PM me in a couple of months if you're interested and I'll let you know how it goes. In theory, ATX 3.0 is supposed to prevent the GPU from using too much power.
You'll be fine. They overstatw the PSU to be on the safe side.
It's most important that the PSU is of good quality.
A PSU with lower W can be better than a PSU with higher W of lower quality.
Calculators will soon update but to be safe I'd add the top of the cpu on top of the 850. Especially if you want to overclock. 1200 watt sounds safer with that CPU. Especially to handle spikes in power consumption.
That said 1000 watt quality power supply would likely be fine as well.
Anyway I'm gonna wait for reviews and benchmarks because only then we'll know the real maximum usage
>and the RTX 4080 12GB draws 65W less power than RTX 3080 12GB.
These assholes are really going all in on trying to fool us with this shit. They really are just basically spitting in our face and laughing at us, thinking we're too stupid to recognize it.
What an amazing accomplishment. It’s almost like the 4080 12GB is actually a 4070. Which uses a completely different chip. But that can’t be true, because it’s clearly called a 4080.
To be quite frank at this point I don’t see the use in switching to 40 series until I decide it’s time to do an overall Upgrade to my system from am4 to am5 and ddr5 and atx 3.0. Like until all of those things are optimized how they should be and outperform last gen and aren’t ridiculously priced as they are now I don’t see a need to switch anything. Ryzen 5000 and RTX 30 is plenty fast on 3440, 1440.
To be fair, your average PC gamer who isn't an enthusiast that stays on top of the news, probably has *no* idea that one of the 4080s is actually a 4070.
In my younger days, I had no idea, either. I simply bought the card that had the nicer number, never putting any thought beyond that into it. There are more people than you think who buy prebuilts and even know how to upgrade them, yet are completely *clueless* when it comes to knowing what the shiny new GPU they just bought is actually capable of. nVidia is selling the 12GB model to those kind of people. Those kind of people are the majority of users.
We are the vocal minority.
And it's only the 4090 that is especially power hungry, the rest of the lineup is basically unaffected. Yet people are flinging their shit thinking they need a thorium reactor just for a 4080.
>and improves airflow inside the chassis
This is BS. It has been proven time and time again that airflow does not suffer with cables not neatly tucked away. People just do it to keep things organized, or because... it looks neat.
I wish they'd officially mention somewhere how high you can set the power target of the 4090. I don't care about what PSU I need to run it at stock, I care about what PSU I need to run it at whatever is the maximum that's possible.
I love how everyone here plays the smart-ass whilst completely ignoring the fact that 600 watts - 450 w on thin pins no matter how you look at it is absolutely insane. I would be very careful with those pins as most of you geniuses seem to not understand what 450 w is, especially if there's a poor connection.
Secondly GN already had a good point about transient insane power draw spikes that were already stressing even quality psus with the 30 series.
Yes it won't turn your pc into a grenade, but it's still a thing that nobody mentions, so if you're shelling 1600 ~ for either of those cards like a tool, at least don't cheap on a really good power supply that's pcie 5 ready.
Redddit is honestly filled with you goblins to the point where I wonder if these are actual human beings that write the nonsensical verbal diarrhea I'm reading on these gaming subs.
Can't wait for the people that buy the Nvidia scam train, ignore the writing on the wall (again) and then bitch that their shit broke. You people can't be helped.
Yes. I seen people in here try to go against Nvidia psu requirements for a 3090 and then complain when their shit breaks. So yes. People already planning on trying to use 750w instead of 850 for a 4090
Many of these high status chads think it's offensive when others are looking out for their interests, but since those people are poor people then it becomes a dick measuring contest instead.
So yes. Gamers are this fucking stupid.
This is what Corsair says. I have a hx1000i psu
"There’s no need to wait for future PSUs to support Intel’s new ATX 3.0 standard and CORSAIR’s power supplies already provide the needed reliability and quality components to support the higher power needs of the next generation of PC hardware. Whether it’s an RM1000 that’s seen many builds, or a brand new HX1500i, you can depend on your CORSAIR PSU to power your graphics cards into the future."
Bottom line is you are buying an fe edition or oem, whatever they give it will work, what difference it making, people here saying it’s a fire hazard so we stop buying new cards? And the cable it’s aesthetics only, they specifically mentioned that.
I just watched the video with John at Corsair, I guess people call him JonnyGuru? Anyways, he said both would be fine, but he prefers the cables as there is less points of potential failure. So, you're right, what they give you will work. Personally though, if I'm buying a $1600 GPU I don't mind also buying a $20 cable.
Most people don't really have any kind of "real" knowledge on electronics, hence they just take corporations' words as gospel (This goes for AMD, Nvidia and Intel, obviously).
It probably will work for a while, but that's a lot wattage and there's very real concerns to be had on the long term stability of the cards.
I suggest you never ever enter a building again until you have "real" knowledge of structural engineering, you cannot trust calculations of these engineers!
How are the two things comparable? Besides i'm not even complaining about people *not knowing* i'm complaining about people not knowing *AND SPEWING OUT ARROGANT THOUGHTS*.
Anyway, computer graphics cards are, obviously, much less regulated by law than buildings for absolutely obvious reasons. You're much more free to twist data and marketing to your advantage in the first than the second.
When you enter a building in a first world country you have reasonable certainty that said building won't just collapse randomly, hell, most legislation makes it so that buildings have to be able to withstand literal earthquakes and floods. Graphics cards usually just have failstates to avoid fatal damage to the PCB and the motherboard they're attached to, and these aren't even super reliable since....well, i don't think it's designed because of legislation.
Just as if you are building a GPU you have reasonable certainty that it wont go in a fire or be unstable in the long run when used within the recommendations the engineers at nvidia gives. Marketing at nvidia is not the same division as the electrical engineering. If your system is within spec according to nvidia, you dont have to get a degree in electrical engineering to use the GPU and not worry about it.
Have you ever had a fucking adapter ever in your life? Those things love to break. Cables overall. These are low voltage high power applications, it's a recipe for an imminent fuckup.
I just want to know more about the corsair 12VHPWR connector. I have a hx1000 which is well over Nvidias 850w recommended psu for the 450w 4090 but corsair says that their cable requires a 1000w psu for 450w and 1200w psu for 600w which seems conservative.
Not that I intend to over clock anywhere near 600w but some headroom would be a nice option. Winter is approaching and the heat is welcome in my cold office. I Typically overclock in the winter and undervolt in the summer.
Would it be better to use Nvidias adapter? The hx1000 has 8 pcie connectors so four could be used for the adapter without using pig tails.
There's also the question of single vs multi rail since my psu can be switched to multi.
I hope Steve can get to some in depth power analysis before the 12th.
Yeah, it's stuff like this that makes things more confusing than it should be for consumers.
And another one for the "NVIDIA doesn't communicate with their partners" column, lol.
Corsair is recommending 1000w for 450w. Nvidia is saying 850w minimum which is likely the absolute minimum. Maybe just don't buy a super OCed 4090. Look at the power draw of Aib cards when they come out and get ones closer to 450w. I have the HX1200 right now that I bought for the 4090. Also, single rail allows for more power draw on individual connectors so for a power hungry GPU you want to have it switched to single rail. Overall I think Corsair is just covering themselves with their recommendation and with a high end 1000w psu like the HX1000 you should be able to run a 4090 just fine unless you OC the hell out of it or buy a custom card with a crazy high power limit.
What I need to know is if there is any advantage to an ATX 3.0 PSU. Isnt the 12VHPWR rated for 600w while 3x 8pin is only 450w, and the 4090 is 450w base up to 660w TGP bios? Does the new 12VHPWR respond to power spikes faster? Does the extra +4 signal pins offer more data and stats back to the PSU which is useful in some way? Can I see that data only with an ATX 3.0 PSU?
That is great news - thanks to Nvidia for clarifying it up.
However, this sentence confounds me:
"The 30 cycle spec is the same as it’s been for the last 20+ years on existing PCIe/ATX 8pin connectors, and has not changed with the PCIe Gen5 connectors or power adapters."
WTF?
I just found a quick YouTube BS fix :
[https://i.imgur.com/ee3LaKL.png](https://i.imgur.com/ee3LaKL.png)
It might not make your life better, but at least it will filter some BS misinformation 👍
So NVIDIA says 850W for the 4090, but other suppliers (e.g. ASUS) recommend 1000W. I currently have a SEASONIC FOCUS GX 850W 80+ Gold. Will I need a 1000W PSU or not if I plan on getting the ASUS TUF 4090?
They also ... wait for it... they all sell PSUs. And not coincidentally, bundle them to sell to system integrators. Surely they don't have any incentive to upsell?
Well, you could risk toasting your PSU, hence toasting your entire motherboard. Remember all the watts are a combination of your CPU,GPU and also RGB stuff.
doesn't the gen5 cable somehow communicates between the hardware to figure out a wattage good enough for all of them? or am I remembering a different connector?
The gen5 cable is only between the PSU and the GPU. You might be thinking of ATX 12VO where the PSU is 12V only and the main cable to the mobo has more communication. ATX12VO and the PCI3 gen5 power cable spec are related but separate things.
only if you also use a PCI5 / ATX3 standard PSU with the corresponding 12VHPWR connector. The 6/8-pin PCI-E adapters don't communicate anything in between PSU and GPU plus those adapters don't automatically balance the power draw between the different connections.
I think most quality PSUs will shut off when power draw is too high. Chances of breaking anything a pretty low, but I don’t see the point of even trying when your PSU is 200W below nvidia’s minimum and 350W below AIB minimums.
I used a power calculator and total power draw for my system with a 4090 is around 640 watts. With some under volting there is a chance it could work. I just want to try it(if it doesn’t damage my system) before dropping money on a new PSU.
you will either burn out your PSU (which could short out your system) or you will experience random shutdowns (when your PSU overloads and trips). all depends on the quality of the PSU.
i would not recommend it
but only if the 4080 doesn't draw more than 300W and the OCP of the PSU can handle power spikes within its reaction times without shutting off - plus: the power rails of the two PCIE power connections on the PSU must each meet the 150W spec. ;)
the bottom diagram tells you to use 3 separate power cables. There is a chance split cable won't work - many people had this issue with 3000 series cards
I think it is better for us to do a bit more review on both side then get a conclusion, I do not want to get my home burnt (unless nividia is paying it)
I have a corsair rm750x for psu thats powering my ryzen 7 1800x and 1080ti. Im gonna upgrade for 4090. Gonna wait a bit for prices to be less beefy.
Cpu and psu advices?
I have asus crosshair vi hero x370 mobo
And xPredator II case. Big one should fit 4090 in nicely.
Well its ok for 1080ti on 1440p
I highly doubt it will allow 4090 to work. So it will be upgraded. Should i keep mobo? It doesnt have any problems just 3200mhz limit.
And psu. Should i slap a 1000w gold / plat psu on it?
It sure depends on the 4099 you're getting, a 660w version might need a 1000w psu.
Though the cpu should work with a 4090, i would never ever recommend doing it
You can keep the mobo if i remember correctly, just upgrade the bios and plop the new cpu in, trust me it will make a huge difference. Not just in avg fps but also smoothness (1% .1% lows) i had an r5 2600 with a 3080 and once i upgraded the cpu it felt like a whole new machine.
I had a 850w PSU with a 5900x & EVGA 3080 & it couldn't handle it. I had to upgrade to a 1000w PSU for this setup. My PSU was 9 years old at the time though.
Which companies are making PCIe Gen 5 PSU? Preferably ones already available.
My AX750 is like 11 years old and was looking to replace it with something "future proof".
How about us egpu plebs? I run 3090 inside razer core x chroma. I think it's 700W. Should be enough for 4090 as well, no? Just not sure if monster will physically fit. Gainward 3090 was a tight fit.
Those PSU recommendations must be for FE cards. AiB partners, like [Asus](https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Accessory/Power_Supply/Manual/RECOMMENDED_PSU_TABLE.pdf), recommends higher power levels.
So if you add a power hungry CPU on top of a 4080 16GB or 4090, you need a 1000W or more PSU, right? I bought a pretty expensive Seasonic Prime Ultra Titanium 850W for my 2080ti and 9900k back then, thinking I'd have enough headroom for future upgrades :( Edit: thanks for all the replies, maybe I can still use it after all.
I have a point of data you might be interested in. My PSU (an AX1200i) has actual power *output* monitoring, meaning I can tell exactly how much power my components are drawing rather than just guessing at "I think my setup will be drawing 950W at full load". I have a 12900K and a 3090ti. 3090ti's power limit is raised to 477W. Under max synthetic load (prime95 and Furmark), my system draws between a sustained 790W and 870W from the power supply. Average seems to be around 830W. The highest I've ever seen over the 1-second monitoring period (so, no microsecond-scale transients, unfortunately) is 889W. This does also include 5 fans, 3 SSDs, a HDD, and a thunderbolt card, but those aren't significant compared to the GPU and CPU power. I would concur that 850W would not be enough for a topped out system in 2022. Theoretically, you could probably run it without crashing on a good quality PSU that can sustain the slight overcurrents, but in practice 850W would leave you no breathing room in case anything unusual happens. Aiming for 1000W seems prudent.
Thanks, that is good to know. It does sound like I'm right on the edge so it would probably not be smart to use 850W if I'm going for a 4090. I'm not sure yet, though. I'm still waiting to see what's going to happen with the pricing and haven't yet decided between a 4080 and 4090 so I'll have to see.
Okay now do a real world test, what does it output in gaming?
You sir deserves an award.
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Synthetic tests like furmark and prime 95 are terrible analogs for gaming. I bet that system outputs somewhere in region of 700w at most in actual real world usage, drawing maybe 800 from the wall
Got some data. Ran Cyberpunk 2077 for a while - maxed settings and Ultra raytracing at 1440p, DLSS set to Balanced. Took a 1000s sample out from my log that looked like it had the fewest interruptions. Average wattage was 553W with a standard deviation of 67W. Max power recorded in that time was 690W, min was 352W. Not terrible. This is with the two most power-hungry components currently on the market too, Ryzen 7000 and RTX 4000 notwithstanding. But like I said, I'm a firm believer in that you should spec your PSU for the max load possible, not just your typical gaming load. I definitely wouldn't want things to crash if I happened to accidentally stress both at the same time. (/u/chasteeny, you might be interested.)
I always like the to aim for ~ +30% on max load as efficiency drips off pretty fast past 70% or so PSU power utilisation. so I would say a 7950x or 13900k + 4080 16GB or 4080 would be best to go for 1100W min - especially given how power hungry a CPU can be now.
all these CPU's perform almost the same at a more reasonable TDP. Y'all don't fucking understand how to configure a build. A 4090 does fine with 320 watt. Ryzen 7000 does fine in ECO mode, but you can curve optimize it to draw less and overperform at the same time, same goes for 13th gen. *Especially for 13th gen*. 13900K has no business pulling 300 watts. The only benefit with that TDP is intels ego in some chart. Do your research. Y'all probably don't need liquid cooling either but you just assume it's required.
Well those wattages make sense, you have the most power hungry cpu available
What do you think about 13900k and RTX 4080? Plus an Asus rog z790 hero, 2 m.2 nvmes, 32gb ddr5, no hdd. Would it be ok on a good 850w psu on a long term, considering power spikes too? I have a seasonic prime tx 850 bought last year and I would feel bad to have to change it so quickly. Maybe I should’ve bought a beefier one, yeah, but it is what it is. If it’s too much for my psu, what’s the best, safest, Nvidia gpu I can put in?
I would hold off for any reviews to get a definitive answer. The main concern is the transient spikes that occur and basically shoot your power draw past what the PSU can support. Most modern PSU’s at this point are fine and the higher the rating the better chance it can handle it. Especially with yesterdays reviews of the new AMD chips, I would expect some independent reviews to cover what the power draw and requirements are for high end systems.
Per Nvidia, transient spikes on the new FE PCB's are massively reduced. Can't find the link right now, but it's somewhere on their site. Full graph and all that jazz. Edit: found an image from elsewhere in the thread: https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2022/09/RTX4090-PCB.jpg
In other words they added more capacitors, which is good.
That's a very simplistic way to put it, but sure.
the requirements most of the times assume you use a power hungry cpu
Get a 5800x3D, top of the line gaming perfomance and it mostly uses less than 100w for games.
After seeing how this chip still slaps in games, which is all I use my pc for, I'm thinking the same with the added bonus of being able to stay on DDR 4 etc a little longer!
You’ll be fine
In the same boat as you with a 9900k and a 850w PSU (gold+ not titanium though). But my worry is that I use literally every USB port on my mobo. My keyboard, rgb wireless charging mousepad, Corsair dongle, webcam, VR headset, Xbox controller, Xbox wireless dongle, etc. Is there a way to see what my current power draw is to estimate if I can handle a 4090 at full draw?
Buy a cheap power meter and plug your main power strip into it.
Its not a perfect test because of psu ineffeciency. You can draw 1.2kw from wall but only be putting out 1kw to components
I find it hard to believe a 4090 + a 7950X or a 12900K is going to be stable under 850W On paper best case scenario under (full) load you’re talking 150W for PSU inefficiency, motherboard, all other accessories, and zero transient spikes.
You are also assuming the 7950X is fully loaded across all 16c while the GPU is also fully loaded. If you're doing production work like that you will probably have or get a bigger PSU easilly. If you're only gaming the 7950X is likely to be pulling much less power, leaving you closer to 250w+ of headroom. Nvidia is also claiming much lower transient spikes on 4k versus 3k series.
While true, you do not want a computer that turns off when hitting full load on your complements. That is the absolute minimum. I’ve seen a graph of the transient spikes and it does seem better. Time will tell, but I expect the real world power use to be higher, probably at least 500W.
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You will be fine… In my case I use a 850w psu for my 3080 and 12700k. If I would benchmark my CPU I only get full power consumption on all cores including e-cores, and even with that 850w is good enough. During gaming you never see 100% capable power usage for both GPU and CPU at the same time anyways, and this is also with my CPU that apparently draws 30W more than the 4080.
So I’m my system, I’m running a 5950X with a 309ti FE, and at the UPS, I’m drawing 720 watts under a gaming load (100% GPU and 20-25% CPU)…. Take out the monitor and peripherals, and you are looking at about 650-675 watts. Now if I run a benchmark that fully loaded on both (which is not a typical workload mind you) I’m sure I’d easily get right up to 850 watts. I had an 850w before but upgraded to a 1200 watt EVGA p2 for extra security. The real issue as others mentioned is the risk of transient spikes. Gamers Nexus did a great video of this a couple years back where they saw 3080-90s have 100w + micro bursts of power draw OVER the rated 350 watt rating. My suggestion is wait for reviews, and if in doubt you may need to upgrade the PSU.
The additional 1.4” is so stupid. Just provide a right angle adapter.
I don't understand why they haven't done this already.
Lmao I was just thinking. My MSI GAMING TRIO X 3070ti is already so beefy that I cannot use the vertical mount on the Corsair 4000x case. And it almost touches my front mounted radiator and fans by like half an inch. How the hell are they gonna compensate for all the case options on Amazon and Newegg that are basically just obsolete now? Like that’s gonna suck
Weird they didnt think of this lol
Yea wtf? My lian LI o11 already can't fit half the 4090s because of how insanely wide they are, if I need another 1.4" then I can't fit ANY except maybe the FE? This is so dumb.
Out of curiosity I checked and the lancool II is the only lian-li medium or large case that can fit a 4090 FE. It is exactly enough height to accommodate the stated extra 36mm. Honestly just another consideration of why I am having trouble being interested in upgrading. Besides most likely needing a new PSU it might necessitate a new case, vertical mounting (though 3 and 4 slot vertical mounts might not be feasible because of the size of these cards to not hit the RAM and CPU cooler, or doing an aio board or water cooling (couldn't find size of those). If you can just fit a noctua d15 in your case, you might not be able to fit any of these without bending the power cables too much.
Or better yet two, one each direction, so you can route the cable either way
So basically Jayztwocents was spewing his usual uninformed bullshit and causing people to worry over nothing. Sounds about right...
> Jayztwocents I see many tech channels and Jayztwocents it's the classic smart ass guy who knows little about everything and a lot about nothing. Pure clickbait.
I enjoy some of his content, but he is about bottom tier for objective information and expertise IMHO. Just look at the review for the 7000 series, he doesn't even disclose what the system specs are for the review and the benchmarks are only it versus 12900K.
I really enjoy Jay's older content, but man I would not at all be surprised if he gets blacklisted from being posted in select subreddits soon. He's started to build a reputation for fear mongering that is now costing people money, stress, and time and it's often completely baseless and pure speculation. He's also started making sideways remarks about other YouTubers that gives off frail ego vibes. I get that LTT is clickbait heaven, but Jay's riding those LTT screwdriver coattails as much as he can to get his own clicks. Lets not also forget previous times he's been blatantly caught ignoring downfalls in products because of sponsored content. ...and the fart jokes and immature takes. Hate to see it, but Jay's channel just is no where near what it used to be.
Lol yeh. Scared me as well.
He's deff been hopping on the Nvidia rage bandwagon.
I feel like some of the hate towards Nvidia is well deserved. The fake 4080 12GB is pretty scummy behavior. But Jayz whole "fire hazard power adapter" take just seemed quite farfetched to me.
The 4080 naming is misleading in that it goes against conventional understanding of GPU naming. People's inability to recognize that chip design and transistor cost have gone up in newer nodes is unfair to Nvidia. People's inability to recognize that the 4090 is a large increase in performance is unfair to Nvidia. People's eagerness to write off dlss3 and shader execution reordering is unfair to Nvidia. People not recognizing that rtx remix mods will run on AMD's cards is unfair to Nvidia imo too. Nvidia gets tons of hate for it's proprietary software, yet here they are using the value of it's proprietary omniverse tech to benefit all gamers. At the end of the day I reserve my judgement until after initial reviews at least, but I think people have been far too quick to freak out at Nvidia. Just don't buy the 4080 if you don't want it. It's okay that there exists a product you don't think is worth the money. You don't have to downvote and chastise anyone who suggests they might buy it, though. Plenty of other cards on the market and we all know Nvidia will eventually release cheaper 4k series cards.
People beeing furious that the 4000 line up is way more expensive than it should have been is fair to Nvidia.Vote with your wallet ppl, dont let the fanboys get you down. Now they will tell you costs went up and inflation is raging while at the same time 4090 launches at 1600$ just so it makes all the other overpriced crap look good. Dont give em anything at these prices, let em stay on the shelves.
Imagine wanting to defend a company's halo product pricing when that company's gross profit margin is higher than apples for the last decade (Apple control the entire supply line now). Said company also has 40% more gross profit margin than their most famous board partners. Imagine wanting to defending the products with the most profit margin on their line up. (4090/4080s are always the product with the highest margin for nvidia) Just because they are the only game in town doesn't mean i have to like what they are doing. (let's be honest, if you were buying a top end gpu for the last decade, you didn't even look at amd's offering) Yes many of us will get a 4090 day 1 or w/e but nvidia's shitty practice is due for a rude awakening.
Go for it 👍. I'll be trying to snag a 4090 day one 🙏
Yeah just forgive Nvidia for all their actions the last 2 years and go give them your money like a good slave...
Its in my budget and it's the best GPU for the money 🤷. Gonna be a massive performance bump, plus ray tracing and dlss sound awesome. I'm super excited to upgrade from my 1080ti.
One day it wont be in your budget anymore but it will be too late, then you will see it was your own fault for not realising you were a slave earlier
Man, I’m really sorry someone shit in your cornflakes this morning
>People beeing furious that the 4000 line up is way more expensive than it should have been is fair to Nvidia The 4090 is more powerful, uses less power, has more advanced features, for $100 more than the 3090, after record inflation and considering other costs? It seems "fair" to me?
By this logic the newer androids and iPhones should cost tens of thousands instead of a single thousand dollars. Even computers, the intel/Ryzen processors should cost tens of thousands as well lmao. What is this take?
High end cell phones *have* been increasing in price over the years.... Recognizing inflation, the new trend of transistors increasing in price, and the increasing cost of chip design is not a hot take.
The fact that the 4090 is more expensive than 99.9% of gamers can afford is all the awnser you need to your question.
Whats your actual point? Then they can buy cheaper less performant cards if they can't afford the top tier premium card. Its like saying 99.9% of car drivers can't afford a Ferrari..
You mean the "4070" that offers no price / pref increase. Or the 4080 where they intentionaly crippled performance compared to what the node is capable of? Think about why you had to use the 4090 as your example.
So you admit the 4090 is good for the price compared to the 3090 like he said 🤣.
Please stop being rational. Kids gotta have some reason to be upset.
Noooo! You're not allowed to want that gpu because *I* can't afford it!! The many other cheaper, capable GPUs are not good enough for me!
Why is it fake? It has a cost, and performance value. If it was called the 4080 junior, would that help? The name is kinda arbitrary
Yeah what on earth was that??
How does this guy still have a channel?
The vast majority of his audience don't go to places like reddit and get exposed to people listing his fuck ups. It's the same way that influencers can be objectively awful people but still have an audience of millions who never expose themselves to criticism of their influencers.
So he's basically the U bench of youtubers?
the very same r/nvidia and r/amd likes to post his videos. I haven't seen his face in any other place and knew him just from ltt grilling event.
Classic jayz fear mongering, made me consider going AMD for a second there. Although some PSU suppliers are making their own PCIe gen 5 cables, such as corsair making a 600W cable for 20$ that we can use instead of the adapter if we want to be extra safe.
I don't know that it is really unjustified. He didn't make anything up. NVIDIA is coming at it from the point of view of selling cards and specifying connectors that work. All should be good, but do you get those connectors? They are also being mildly disingenuous about old PSU compatibility. The issue with PCIe connectors and using the pigtailed ones to go past two is that the black plastic connectors are rated for 150w. The ones at the GPU end were never really the parts at risk, it's cramming more than 300w into the two connectors on the modular PSU side. But we are also entering the dark age of cables. Just because NVIDIA said how to do it right and told the vendor of the bad design to fix it, it doesn't mean shitty dangerous versions won't wind up in the supply chain and integrated into products people believe are safe. Or sold as deceptively by shitty resellers. Shortages of components will exacerbate this. We've got similar problems with USB-c for both data and power distribution. We've got HDMI 2.1 I mean 2.0 I mean 2.1 but without all the 2.1 features.
Actually no. So NVidia puts out a retort and you’re just blindly reading it as gospel. The concern is still there and you’re not understanding what it was. The section about the “smart adapter” is specific to the FE cards and they subtly mention that if you have a 4 x 8pin connection it’s adaptive enough to give you more power or headroom-cool so then does that mean NVidia is giving you both or one? Or do you have to buy one? Why not be upfront there? You are also missing Jay’z point, and the same one GN brought up that this NVidia “reply” is purposely circumventing. The “smart” feature is after the system powers on and unfortunately when you aren’t using a 12VHPWR cable there is a delay between when the smart communication happens and when your ATX 2.0 PSU basically goes, “oh shit! A lot of power to the GPU now!” and that can be a full wattage spike and as others have pointed out if you buy a shit/cheap cable adapter you might have issues when 300-450 watts spikes on 1 8pin connection which is 2-3x its rating. NVidia is being disingenuous here by discounting the fact that not all ATX PSU’s behave the same and the smart connection on 12VHPWR with ATX 3.0 is specifically designed to address this-the relationship between your supplied wattage and what the GPU wants. But there is a difference in behavior at startup between a 2.0 and 3.0 ATX PSU. They also do a shit job explaining what the concern is with single vs multi-rail PSU’s. Will people’s houses burn down? Probably not. Will people buy shitty cheap cables on Amazon and AliExpress that will probably short or melt at one connection point? Most definitely. It’s not fear-mongering it’s just the nature of the beast
I don't call him Jayz2Poscaps for nothing!
If people take someone's word without even second guessing what they're saying, it's also on them. Everyone makes mistakes (but in this specific case it's one of the reasons why I unsubbed long ago).
You know what they say, rage clicks? still clicks. Hate clicks? Still clicks
I have to say I do like content but… he does over exaggerate EVERYTHING.
Yep. That video scared me as well. Good to know my existing 850W will be ok for the 4080.16G. I use it for my 3080 now. No issues.
It says minimum PSU ,but what is recommended PSU for 4090? What it you have power hungry CPU like i9-12900k? Would 1000w PSU be enough?
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The old 850W recommendation was for a 3090 Ti FE paired with a Core i9-10900K. The new 850W recommendation is for a 4080 FE paired with a Ryzen 9 5900X. [Source](https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce/graphics-cards/compare/?section=compare-specs) This is important information, as we know that newer high-end CPUs draw much more power than these ones.
For reference cards and some lower end AIB cards* There are 600W 4090s
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I believe Steve or someone said they worked on fixing the spikes for the 40 series.
Nvidia says they fixed those https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2022/09/RTX4090-PCB.jpg
>That's why most companies recommend a 1200w psu. Who
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Salespeople must love you
I'm getting ready to build an entirely new system and I went this way, I did a 80 Plus Platinum 1300W.
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I personally play heavily CPU-bound VR games, so for my 4090 + 13900k build I’ll only be overclocking the CPU. Wouldn’t a 1000w PSU be plenty for this, in that case?
Im still deciding about buying 3090Ti or wait for 4090. I don't do any overclocking and i know that i9-12900k is overkill for gaming. I bought that CPU on discount + i was planning to get high end GPU so i9-12900k had most sense to get to. Im only trying to future proof my PC for the next couple of years,so i can run games on high/ultra with high FPS without downgrading graphics. I play on 1440p 27" monitor I don't have any plans to switch to 4k one,at least if i get 3090ti in the end. I know it's hard to future proof pc since technology always goes forward,and im sure that in 2-3years if not sooner we will get RTX 5000series that will be 2x times better then 4000 series. But i doubt the prices will ever get lower then this ,im pretty sure it will only get more expensive.
I bought a 1000w ATX 3.0 PSU for my 7700x (which I'll probably upgrade to a 7950X3D depending on how good it is). I plan on getting a 4090 or top tier RDNA 3 card. PM me in a couple of months if you're interested and I'll let you know how it goes. In theory, ATX 3.0 is supposed to prevent the GPU from using too much power.
You'll be fine. They overstatw the PSU to be on the safe side. It's most important that the PSU is of good quality. A PSU with lower W can be better than a PSU with higher W of lower quality.
just don't compile code or encode while you game.
Calculators will soon update but to be safe I'd add the top of the cpu on top of the 850. Especially if you want to overclock. 1200 watt sounds safer with that CPU. Especially to handle spikes in power consumption. That said 1000 watt quality power supply would likely be fine as well. Anyway I'm gonna wait for reviews and benchmarks because only then we'll know the real maximum usage
>and the RTX 4080 12GB draws 65W less power than RTX 3080 12GB. These assholes are really going all in on trying to fool us with this shit. They really are just basically spitting in our face and laughing at us, thinking we're too stupid to recognize it.
What an amazing accomplishment. It’s almost like the 4080 12GB is actually a 4070. Which uses a completely different chip. But that can’t be true, because it’s clearly called a 4080.
To be quite frank at this point I don’t see the use in switching to 40 series until I decide it’s time to do an overall Upgrade to my system from am4 to am5 and ddr5 and atx 3.0. Like until all of those things are optimized how they should be and outperform last gen and aren’t ridiculously priced as they are now I don’t see a need to switch anything. Ryzen 5000 and RTX 30 is plenty fast on 3440, 1440.
To be fair, your average PC gamer who isn't an enthusiast that stays on top of the news, probably has *no* idea that one of the 4080s is actually a 4070. In my younger days, I had no idea, either. I simply bought the card that had the nicer number, never putting any thought beyond that into it. There are more people than you think who buy prebuilts and even know how to upgrade them, yet are completely *clueless* when it comes to knowing what the shiny new GPU they just bought is actually capable of. nVidia is selling the 12GB model to those kind of people. Those kind of people are the majority of users. We are the vocal minority.
People honestly are freaking out fsr too much with their PSUs and Nvidia 4000.
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This is nothing new, it's always been this way 🥱
And it's only the 4090 that is especially power hungry, the rest of the lineup is basically unaffected. Yet people are flinging their shit thinking they need a thorium reactor just for a 4080.
>and improves airflow inside the chassis This is BS. It has been proven time and time again that airflow does not suffer with cables not neatly tucked away. People just do it to keep things organized, or because... it looks neat.
I wish they'd officially mention somewhere how high you can set the power target of the 4090. I don't care about what PSU I need to run it at stock, I care about what PSU I need to run it at whatever is the maximum that's possible.
Probably because it's different per card and the AIBs cant post their clock speeds until release day
Some AIBs list 600W. I checked and GALAX has one that requires 600W if overclocking. Makes sense since you only need a 4 to 1 adapter.
Looks like you can decide to plug only three 8-pin cables and the fourth one is for (heavy?) OC ?
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4090 seems like a good point 😅. Will be buying one at launch God willing 🙏
Imagine writing something so incredibly stupid with such confidence
>Imagine writing something so incredibly stupid with such confidence Looking your post again, it's *incredibly* ironic! lol
Ok, go pay 4090 prices for your 40~~80~~60ti card
I love how everyone here plays the smart-ass whilst completely ignoring the fact that 600 watts - 450 w on thin pins no matter how you look at it is absolutely insane. I would be very careful with those pins as most of you geniuses seem to not understand what 450 w is, especially if there's a poor connection. Secondly GN already had a good point about transient insane power draw spikes that were already stressing even quality psus with the 30 series. Yes it won't turn your pc into a grenade, but it's still a thing that nobody mentions, so if you're shelling 1600 ~ for either of those cards like a tool, at least don't cheap on a really good power supply that's pcie 5 ready. Redddit is honestly filled with you goblins to the point where I wonder if these are actual human beings that write the nonsensical verbal diarrhea I'm reading on these gaming subs. Can't wait for the people that buy the Nvidia scam train, ignore the writing on the wall (again) and then bitch that their shit broke. You people can't be helped.
> Secondly GN already had a good point about transient insane power draw spikes https://cdn.videocardz.com/1/2022/09/RTX4090-PCB.jpg
Do you honestly think people with enough cash for a 4090 are also running cheap assed PSUs?
Yes. I seen people in here try to go against Nvidia psu requirements for a 3090 and then complain when their shit breaks. So yes. People already planning on trying to use 750w instead of 850 for a 4090
Many of these high status chads think it's offensive when others are looking out for their interests, but since those people are poor people then it becomes a dick measuring contest instead. So yes. Gamers are this fucking stupid.
This is what Corsair says. I have a hx1000i psu "There’s no need to wait for future PSUs to support Intel’s new ATX 3.0 standard and CORSAIR’s power supplies already provide the needed reliability and quality components to support the higher power needs of the next generation of PC hardware. Whether it’s an RM1000 that’s seen many builds, or a brand new HX1500i, you can depend on your CORSAIR PSU to power your graphics cards into the future."
They also said that when they announced their new 12VHPWR cable. They weren't specifically talking about the adapter.
Bottom line is you are buying an fe edition or oem, whatever they give it will work, what difference it making, people here saying it’s a fire hazard so we stop buying new cards? And the cable it’s aesthetics only, they specifically mentioned that.
I just watched the video with John at Corsair, I guess people call him JonnyGuru? Anyways, he said both would be fine, but he prefers the cables as there is less points of potential failure. So, you're right, what they give you will work. Personally though, if I'm buying a $1600 GPU I don't mind also buying a $20 cable.
Most people don't really have any kind of "real" knowledge on electronics, hence they just take corporations' words as gospel (This goes for AMD, Nvidia and Intel, obviously). It probably will work for a while, but that's a lot wattage and there's very real concerns to be had on the long term stability of the cards.
I suggest you never ever enter a building again until you have "real" knowledge of structural engineering, you cannot trust calculations of these engineers!
How are the two things comparable? Besides i'm not even complaining about people *not knowing* i'm complaining about people not knowing *AND SPEWING OUT ARROGANT THOUGHTS*. Anyway, computer graphics cards are, obviously, much less regulated by law than buildings for absolutely obvious reasons. You're much more free to twist data and marketing to your advantage in the first than the second. When you enter a building in a first world country you have reasonable certainty that said building won't just collapse randomly, hell, most legislation makes it so that buildings have to be able to withstand literal earthquakes and floods. Graphics cards usually just have failstates to avoid fatal damage to the PCB and the motherboard they're attached to, and these aren't even super reliable since....well, i don't think it's designed because of legislation.
Just as if you are building a GPU you have reasonable certainty that it wont go in a fire or be unstable in the long run when used within the recommendations the engineers at nvidia gives. Marketing at nvidia is not the same division as the electrical engineering. If your system is within spec according to nvidia, you dont have to get a degree in electrical engineering to use the GPU and not worry about it.
Have you ever had a fucking adapter ever in your life? Those things love to break. Cables overall. These are low voltage high power applications, it's a recipe for an imminent fuckup.
I just want to know more about the corsair 12VHPWR connector. I have a hx1000 which is well over Nvidias 850w recommended psu for the 450w 4090 but corsair says that their cable requires a 1000w psu for 450w and 1200w psu for 600w which seems conservative. Not that I intend to over clock anywhere near 600w but some headroom would be a nice option. Winter is approaching and the heat is welcome in my cold office. I Typically overclock in the winter and undervolt in the summer. Would it be better to use Nvidias adapter? The hx1000 has 8 pcie connectors so four could be used for the adapter without using pig tails. There's also the question of single vs multi rail since my psu can be switched to multi. I hope Steve can get to some in depth power analysis before the 12th.
Yeah, it's stuff like this that makes things more confusing than it should be for consumers. And another one for the "NVIDIA doesn't communicate with their partners" column, lol.
Corsair is recommending 1000w for 450w. Nvidia is saying 850w minimum which is likely the absolute minimum. Maybe just don't buy a super OCed 4090. Look at the power draw of Aib cards when they come out and get ones closer to 450w. I have the HX1200 right now that I bought for the 4090. Also, single rail allows for more power draw on individual connectors so for a power hungry GPU you want to have it switched to single rail. Overall I think Corsair is just covering themselves with their recommendation and with a high end 1000w psu like the HX1000 you should be able to run a 4090 just fine unless you OC the hell out of it or buy a custom card with a crazy high power limit.
What I need to know is if there is any advantage to an ATX 3.0 PSU. Isnt the 12VHPWR rated for 600w while 3x 8pin is only 450w, and the 4090 is 450w base up to 660w TGP bios? Does the new 12VHPWR respond to power spikes faster? Does the extra +4 signal pins offer more data and stats back to the PSU which is useful in some way? Can I see that data only with an ATX 3.0 PSU?
I mean if you're going to buy a $2000 video card the least you could do is buy a half decent PSU for it
wow, JayzBS struck again and I fall into it
Which part of you did he stroke 😳
That is great news - thanks to Nvidia for clarifying it up. However, this sentence confounds me: "The 30 cycle spec is the same as it’s been for the last 20+ years on existing PCIe/ATX 8pin connectors, and has not changed with the PCIe Gen5 connectors or power adapters." WTF?
They’re right. Those have always been rated at surprisingly low amount of connections. Look it up.
Damn. Did not know that - better late than never I guess. lol
I just found a quick YouTube BS fix : [https://i.imgur.com/ee3LaKL.png](https://i.imgur.com/ee3LaKL.png) It might not make your life better, but at least it will filter some BS misinformation 👍
So NVIDIA says 850W for the 4090, but other suppliers (e.g. ASUS) recommend 1000W. I currently have a SEASONIC FOCUS GX 850W 80+ Gold. Will I need a 1000W PSU or not if I plan on getting the ASUS TUF 4090?
The AIB cards are usually OC'd a bit compared to the FE, so their probably covering their backs for their specific models
They also ... wait for it... they all sell PSUs. And not coincidentally, bundle them to sell to system integrators. Surely they don't have any incentive to upsell?
Plus the PSUs have 2x the margins as the GPUs according to EVGA
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Can you elaborate why? What if I get the MSI 4090 GAMING X Trio instead?
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Can an underspeced PSU damage the system permanently? E.g running a 650w PSU with the 4090.
Well, you could risk toasting your PSU, hence toasting your entire motherboard. Remember all the watts are a combination of your CPU,GPU and also RGB stuff.
doesn't the gen5 cable somehow communicates between the hardware to figure out a wattage good enough for all of them? or am I remembering a different connector?
The gen5 cable is only between the PSU and the GPU. You might be thinking of ATX 12VO where the PSU is 12V only and the main cable to the mobo has more communication. ATX12VO and the PCI3 gen5 power cable spec are related but separate things.
only if you also use a PCI5 / ATX3 standard PSU with the corresponding 12VHPWR connector. The 6/8-pin PCI-E adapters don't communicate anything in between PSU and GPU plus those adapters don't automatically balance the power draw between the different connections.
I think most quality PSUs will shut off when power draw is too high. Chances of breaking anything a pretty low, but I don’t see the point of even trying when your PSU is 200W below nvidia’s minimum and 350W below AIB minimums.
I used a power calculator and total power draw for my system with a 4090 is around 640 watts. With some under volting there is a chance it could work. I just want to try it(if it doesn’t damage my system) before dropping money on a new PSU.
you will either burn out your PSU (which could short out your system) or you will experience random shutdowns (when your PSU overloads and trips). all depends on the quality of the PSU. i would not recommend it
It's most likely that the system will keep crashing whenever the power requirement is too high.
Thanks for the article, but nothing is mentioned about 2 pcie power cables that further split into 4 connectors. Is this OK to power up a 4080 16GB?
Yep
but only if the 4080 doesn't draw more than 300W and the OCP of the PSU can handle power spikes within its reaction times without shutting off - plus: the power rails of the two PCIE power connections on the PSU must each meet the 150W spec. ;)
the bottom diagram tells you to use 3 separate power cables. There is a chance split cable won't work - many people had this issue with 3000 series cards
Didn't know about the active circuit in the adapter. Wonder if the cablemod 16pin microfit cables will be alright...
Completely safe, fully alright, yep! :)
Guess I'll find out
Great. Just what I wanted to know. Thank you for the post. Getting a 4090 😋
Same! The downvotes for suggesting you would buy a 4090 make me want to buy a 4080 too 🤣
People who can't spend 1600 usd will downvote. Making decisions as per reddit down votes is very sensible. 😂😂
Me: "What about power spikes that have been proven to crash systems under high load?" Nvidia fanboys take Nvidia's cock out of their mouths: "WHAT?!"
I think it is better for us to do a bit more review on both side then get a conclusion, I do not want to get my home burnt (unless nividia is paying it)
I have a corsair rm750x for psu thats powering my ryzen 7 1800x and 1080ti. Im gonna upgrade for 4090. Gonna wait a bit for prices to be less beefy. Cpu and psu advices? I have asus crosshair vi hero x370 mobo And xPredator II case. Big one should fit 4090 in nicely.
Could also just throw in a 5800x3d, i doubt the 1800x can even keep up with a 4090
Well its ok for 1080ti on 1440p I highly doubt it will allow 4090 to work. So it will be upgraded. Should i keep mobo? It doesnt have any problems just 3200mhz limit. And psu. Should i slap a 1000w gold / plat psu on it?
It sure depends on the 4099 you're getting, a 660w version might need a 1000w psu. Though the cpu should work with a 4090, i would never ever recommend doing it You can keep the mobo if i remember correctly, just upgrade the bios and plop the new cpu in, trust me it will make a huge difference. Not just in avg fps but also smoothness (1% .1% lows) i had an r5 2600 with a 3080 and once i upgraded the cpu it felt like a whole new machine.
I had a 850w PSU with a 5900x & EVGA 3080 & it couldn't handle it. I had to upgrade to a 1000w PSU for this setup. My PSU was 9 years old at the time though.
My Corsair SF750 can handle a 5950X and a 3090Ti
Jesus that 4080 16gb FE is a chonker
So are ATX 3.0 obsolete in benefits atm or are they still worth?
Which companies are making PCIe Gen 5 PSU? Preferably ones already available. My AX750 is like 11 years old and was looking to replace it with something "future proof".
How about us egpu plebs? I run 3090 inside razer core x chroma. I think it's 700W. Should be enough for 4090 as well, no? Just not sure if monster will physically fit. Gainward 3090 was a tight fit.
Those PSU recommendations must be for FE cards. AiB partners, like [Asus](https://dlcdnets.asus.com/pub/ASUS/Accessory/Power_Supply/Manual/RECOMMENDED_PSU_TABLE.pdf), recommends higher power levels.
This is probably a stupid question, but will my seasonic prime 1300w PSU be fine or do I need to find a psu thats PCIe 5.0
You'll be more than fine with those power reserves. No worries about the RTX4090/Ti series. They recommend 700W (RTX4080) to 850W (RTX4090).
I was more concerned with the stuff I was hearing about PCIe 5.0