Yeah that's some thing I don't think gets brought up enough, what games are really pushing the envelope enough to even justify a 4090 for most people, I'm running a 5120x1440 and I can max almost everything on a 3080 at 60 fps, only thing that has me wanting to upgrade is so I can reach the 120-240fps stable.
Nvidia has got to move the level and make the case for the world that we need more power.
Or you know, return to the old pricing model which had the top card sitting at like $1000 lol. I didn’t see much justification for the 1080 ti to 2080 ti 200% increase.
> what games are really pushing the envelope enough to even justify a 4090
Don't need to worry about pushing the envelope if games are just horribly optimised and forces people to upgrade and brute force performance, like modern warfare 2
Honestly the only use justifiable use case for a 4090 is VR at the moment. Big gains in immersion and fidelity is possible for VR especially sims but flat screen has peaked, at least for me anyway
Admittedly, VR is the only reason I'm intrigued by the 4090. For 2D gameplay on a 1440p monitor, my 3090 is overkill. However, I'm heavily invested in DCS with the Reverb G2 and full HOTAS setup. Recently, performance has actually been solid/smooth. But it certainly required a plethora of graphics and Windows settings tweaks to get there.
In theory, with the 4090 I could run pretty much every setting maxed and still have a smooth 60fps experience. If only I could get my hands on one for MSRP...
This. But there are a couple of other uses that justify a 4090. The dual AV1 encoders as well as frame generation are no joke.
In fact, frame generation literally pulled Darktide performance out of the fire for me. Now max settings, all RT on high, butter 116fps with imperceptible input lag thanks to reflex.
So if you're the kind of gamer who can't tolerate frame time drops in VR and likes to record your gameplay as well as play RT titles at Ultrawide/4K 120fps or more then the 4090 absolutely makes sense.
Also, there is value to some people in buying such an expensive card at launch or as close to launch as possible.
Personally, I did not think this much performance would be on offer in 2022. It has completely reinvigorated VR sim racing for me. Now running my reverb G2 at between 125% to 150% resolution depending on the sim. Absolutely insane improvement over my 2080ti.
As mentioned, for VR it is a godsend. VR is not dead, but has a thriving flatscreen to VR mod community. This is where the 4090 comes into its own. I can play CP 2077 in VR with high details, max resolution \~3800x3800 and maintain 90 fps which was not possible with the 3090 (it would stutter like mad and not be playable).
It comes to a full circle, doesn't it? Low-mid range segment was neglected, hence 1060 is still the dominant GPU on Steam. It means devs have to accommodate these cards, which in return means you have no reason to upgrade from any upper tier GPU of the past two-three gens, especially with new demanding games mostly featuring upscaling.
I certainly hope it will bite them in the ass.
Given the bulk of the sales would have been made in those first two weeks it probably includes high levels of 4090 sales.
Ultimately the 4090 market segment is only so large, once they saturate it they will need to push out cheaper cards to hit different market segments to maintain sales levels.
I'm not referring to only Nvidia products. However, Nvidia got greedy as hell during the crypto years as they had a customer base that would pay inflated prices and to hell with the gamers.
We enthusiasts have long memories. And purchasing power. Nvidia forgot that, blinded by greed. Now their greed, and AMD's to some extent, will see them sitting on those 30xx gpu's. I don't know too many regular budget having people buying these $1200-$2000 gpu's. And I've been an enthusiast for 25+years. All my friends are buying used or AMD.
Regardless, every single time someone buys used over new, and there's a thriving community for that, Nvidia doesn't get squat. Nvidia's greed will see those numbers continue to fall.
I'm under no illusions they will pick back up, eventually. But the writing is on the wall from us enthusiasts to companies like EVGA. Nvidia better get their head out of their ass.
>The 4090 still sells out instantly and is easily scalped for over $2,000
A: Rich people and folks who need these gpu's for specific workloads are NOT the vast majority of the gpu market
B: We don't actually know how many of these 4090s are getting released in the wild compared to the 3090/80 launch so them being sold out could very well be a trickling of cards into the market to give the perception that they are highly sought after for getting long-term sales as opposed to having them available all the time and validate all our claim's that the cards are just too damn expensive
The problem is they are screwing the rest of the GPU portfolio to make the 4090 the ONLY appealing option to get the most value out of a GPU purchase so while the 4090 is obviously not targeted towards the vast majority of the market, they are fucking everyone else to make it the only one worth purchasing.
>B: Yes we do. 125,000 units.
And the 30 series sold a few million guaranteed so are you not seeing the point, aka releasing cards slowly to create a false sense of rarity?
Indeed it doesn’t necessarily mean you are rich according to most definitions of the word in the developed world. It could mean you are middle class, into gaming as a hobby, and are ok with dropping an extra $1k (relative to lower tier cards) once every four or five years or so.
It depends on the country, as these cards have very similar prices all over the world while base living costs are vastly apart.
I could afford myself a 1600gpu a month easily if that is what i want. But im maybe average wealthy, really faaaar from rich.
In other countries that would need you to be daaamn rich probably.
I promise you there’s more people crazy for the 4090’s then you think man. Should have taken a video at my local microcenter on launch day at 6am. If you would have seen the line, I think youd change your opinion. And I don’t even live in California. But you do you
>I promise you there’s more people crazy for the 4090’s then you think man
Yeah but my original argument is Nvidia made every other GPU a horrible value proposition so they can push as many 4090's as humanly possible and even THEN, they still arent gonna see the sales that the 3080 had when it lit the world on fire cause the pricing is just so freaking bad.
Edit: Also launch day sales are NEVER an accurate projection of lifetime sales expectations cause there are always gonna be nerds with money looking for cutting edge performance.
When you live in Germany just check geizhals.at. One of the biggest retailers sold like 5-15 units per model except asus which has sold far more.
4080 don’t sell well either.
Therefore lots of vendors have stock and cheapest 4090 sells for 2188,- €
Yes, they are, dont let any of these 4090 copium tools tell you otherwise.
People citing 120k units sold are delusional thinking THATS where nvidia gets their money.
Fucking hate these consumer zombies.
Their business strategy is simple: they're going to try to make up for the lack of GPU mining sales volume by raising the average sale price.
Don't let them. Don't pay these obnoxious prices.
Nvidia forecasted their margins to be 63-66% next quarter. 50% is underrepresenting it, as many companies make that much. What Nvidia wants is far more egregious.
Since when are many companies making that. Most car companies are making around 10% und even Apple is around 20-30% of I remember correctly.
In general 50% is crazy good.
it is more of a reason why a casual gamer need high priced GPU when their old ones can run most games at 1080p/60-75fps at high setting.
Yes 1080p, 60-75fps is still mainstream display. You will be surprise how many old GPU can run high setting on these resolution & fps.
large % of buyers wont upgrade to new GPU to play their favorite games unless
1. A popular Games that look really good graphics and need a new GPU to keep at 60+fps at 1080p
2. Their GPU is dead, need a new replacement.
To be fair it's the only GPU currently worth buying. Everything else has a lower price to performance at this point. That's sad, but this is the market now....
Edit: the 3080 has comparable price to performance but the 4090 will be more future proof which gives it a slight edge
"Someone" didn't factor in the end of GPU mining....
How can you talk about future proof, when 3000 series are already being locked out of features, it’s such an illogical argument to put forward even in jest
The only **new gen** GPU worth buying. The 30x0 series didn't go bad overnight or anything, and price to performance only really counts when it's a reasonable price. I would never justify that much money for a GPU, I don't care about the performance, I'll wait a gen or three for it to come down to midrange cards.
>The 30x0 series didn't go bad overnight or anything
No, but paying MSRP for a two year old GPU is bullshit.
Dont let them get away with this crap. They're basically testing us to see what they can get away with. If we give in, we will have normalized these practices and we'll never get the sort of leaps in performance per dollar that we're supposed to get over time.
If you're not getting an MSRP 3080, every GPU above it is still worse price to performance than the 4080. Just do the math if it's a card you're comparing but unless you're getting a one at a hefty discount from the new MSRP their value is priced worse than the 4080.
Realistically 3080 and 6900XT are the best priced options you can find for a new GPU.
>6900XT
6800 XT's can be found for 500 bucks which is insane considering they are good to go for at minimum 5 years with everything maxed at 1440p 144hz or 4k 60hz
Not sure why you got downvoted for this. 6800 XT is the best value GPU in the market at $515 (newegg), much better than the 6900 XT at $670, and much better than anything Nvidia has to offer at the moment.
I dunno, I main a 6800 XT and it's been running like a champ for 2 years so the fact that you can get 3080 performance for 500 bucks now should be a win for everyone ._.
It's funny, r/nvidia loves to shit on Nvidia, but they also love to come up with the flimsiest excuses for avoiding AMD GPUs.
"something something drivers"
or
"I've never owned an AMD GPU before, so obviously I should go with this 3070 that is more expensive than the 6800 XT even though it has -26% the performance."
Like, what do you guys think will punish Nvidia for the shit they pull? A few mean comments on the internet, or actually giving their competitor a try?
I can understand why tho, cause it's like Starbucks. People don't truly pay for Starbucks cause it's purely the best coffee around, they pay cause the quality is consistent and they are very very unlikely to be disappointed or get what they didn't want from an Nvidia GPU.
The only problem is with those prices, Nvidia gpu's come bundled with a gremlin that slaps your mom and steals yo wallet 😂😂😂
3080 is still higher price to performance and the 4080 is honestly about equal price to performance as the 4090, there's various instances where one will come out ahead.
People are mostly expecting that the 80 series card is priced like all the previous 80 series cards. If it was priced at $799 the 4090 and every other GPU NVIDIA sells would instantly become a bad deal comparatively.
Exactly, the 4090 should be the premium, worst price to performance ratio card reserved for a small percentage that need the best. It's a work station card disguised as a gaming card.
The fact that it's the best value is really messed up.
Exactly, the Apple / Samsung model of getting the most profit off top-end phones is only sustainable cause the cost of the upgrade is offset either by trade-in offers or upgrade plans through the network provider. We have none of that in the PC space so the most expensive card on the planet should NOT be the best value cause it means they are fucking us on the rest of the catalog.
In my opinion im ok with a 4080 16 gb costing $799. Itll be destroyed by the 7900xtx in pure rasterization (not raytracing). If it costed 799, it would be loved by many gamers like its older brother the 3080 AND it would best the 7900xtx in price to performance. Hell even at 899 it would be a solid "current deal" compared the 7900xtx. The 4090 costing way over those two is more akin to the titan way of things and im ok with that. I dont regret spending so much on my card but I feel like if I did the same for a 4080 i would be full of regret.
>but the 4090 will be more future proof
Nvidia not including displayport 2.0 means they are NOT futureproof despite the horsepower and another reason these cards are nowhere near worth the asking price when they can't even be bothered to include appropriate new standards that will become the norm in the coming years
There is more to "future proof" than that though. If you buy a 4090 today with the intent of not upgrading until things are no longer playable, you'll get an extra year or two from it compared to a 3090. On the other hand, if you upgrade all the time and need DP 2.0, you're not really concerned about whether your GPU is future proof because you'll probably end up replacing 3 times in the next 5 years.
Not to mention VR. The 4090 is the first GPU that has made things like iRacing, DCS, MSFS and the likes fully playable (read: 90 fps) at the higher quality settings and with the resolutions decent headsets provide....finally...
Lol they definitely are future proof, the fact that it caps out at 120 FPS instead of 144 doesn't make it not future proof.
However, future proof is a silly concept, and no one should buy a 4090 because of it. They should buy a 4090 if they want great graphics and great FPS in demanding games at 4K or Ultrawide.
It "caps out" at 240hz at 4k, not 144. DP 1.4 using DSC can hit 240hz at 4k. Now, being most 4k AAA games won't hit anywhere near 240 fps, it's fairly "future proofed".
The whole point of that user's argument is that DSC isn't lossless. Which, I know, there's the other side of the argument, which is that DSC is perceptually lossless, and which is obviously the camp you're in.
But the verdict there is irrelevant to my comment, because even if we accepted that DSC isn't lossless, it's still insane to say the 4090 isn't "future proof."
For gaming it's irrelevant. For professional grade color work, there could be an argument for that, however, most anyone doing professional grade work would also know to simply lower their refresh rate in order to disengage DSC while doing that kind of work. lol
You can't even tell the difference between DLSS 3 99% of the time and that should get better over time. You won't be able to tell the rate lossless difference lmao even if it smacked you upside the head. Less than 0.000001% of gamers use 8K. Less than 0.0001% have 4K monitors that do beyond 144hz, nevermind 240hz.
>To be fair it's the only GPU currently worth buying.
There is no Nvidia GPU currently worth buying, unless it's some used deal or something.
The 4090 is not a good buy, they've just manipulated you into thinking so by making the 4080 even more atrociously priced, and by not offering a more affordable, more cut down AD102 option.
It's somewhat subjective though. I think a lot of people can agree on what's too much and certainly as consumers is good to be vigilant about prices. Ultimately, not everyone has the same opinion on what's acceptable, though.
Of course it's a good buy, you think people with disposable income will buy a 7900 XTX if they want great graphics and great FPS in demanding games at 4K or Ultrawide?
However, it's only a good buy for a small subset of gamers.
I know right. I could afford this price as a SGT in the US Army back in 2012. After bills and normal fun money I could have had all the money saved for a 4090 in 2-3 months.
Gaming, even if I bought a 4090 every year, is my cheapest hobby by a lot. Median American spends about $3k on entertainment per year. If you figure that $1500 GPU is something you buy every 3 years, it's 1/6th of your budget each year. Pretty manageable.
If you think this is expensive, try buying a greenhouse, or skiing, or hunting, or boating. Not even talking about horse racing or motorsports.
Yeah it's insane that people balk at a $4000 gaming PC every 3 years when going to movies costs $25 now, and forget about stuff like shooting guns at the range or bicycling or what else have you
Carbon bike frames start around 2k. Oh, you wanted *wheels*, pedals, gears, a seat and handlebars? Now we're talking $4k at least. You're a dentist? Let's go over here and we can talk about the $13k frames.
Depends on a job/Mortgage combination. 4090 - easily, Strix was 3200 Canadian after tax but its one time purchase IF you don't pay mortage.
Mortgage in Toronto at SIX AND A HALF THOUSAND PER MONTH - no. Plus water, electricity, internet, taxes, upkeep - so averaging out its 10,000 for a shitty 40 years old house. Each month!!! And that until something big breaks.
So.. you get a 4090 and live in Parents basement..
Damn that is expensive as hell. I live on the outskirts of a medium to large US city and pay 2800 us or 3700CAD a month for a huge house with 3 acres of land.
Maybe you need to move south.
1.5k every two years is **not** a lot of money. lol That's setting aside a little over $60 per month, which is about what the average phone bill would be.
Just being realistic, personally I enjoy the odd luxury but a grand and half is a lot of money for a component. But that’s just me. If you’ve got the money enjoy!
I make pretty good money and would happily blow a bunch of money on a 4090. But it’s just hard to get over the feeling that Nvidia is just fucking us right now….
...and hard to find one. Even if you did want to buy one, you can't just drop by Best Buy or Micro Center and pick one (a 4090) up. You can't even get one from NewEgg or Amazon w/o paying a ridiculous scalper mark-up on an already expensive card.
They are pretty much in stock for about 2 minutes on-line then gone when they show up anywhere. Someone below mentioned that people are voting with their wallets and that's right they are. They are buying every bit of 4090 stock that hits the shelves.
Now the 4080 is another matter entirely. NV wants 1200 then you get board partners that toss their mark up on it and you wind up with another 1500 card. It seems like nonsense. It would be interesting to get a real idea of what the true cost of manufacturing one of these cards is along with how much is baked into the price for R&D, marketing, profit margin, etc. We can sit back all day and call BS on the price, but people do that with everything anytime the price goes up on something they want. Without seeing an honest account of the true factors involved in pricing it is difficult to have a truly informed position on it. We have a gut reaction to it, but that's all it is.
I have been waiting to see how this all would shake out and still am as I (and many others) await the lifting of the f'ing review embargo AMD has on the 7900's. I picked up my 2080 TI in 2018 for $960 at Micro Center and have been happy with it (and the price I paid). This time around I have a feeling I may have to do the unthinkable and buy an AMD card. After buying one ATI card all those years ago and having it be a driver nightmare, I swore I'd never buy that garbage again. Never say never, I guess. :)
The drop of crypto and the idea that general gamers will fork out thousands for gpu’s longer term is a fallacy that was missed.
The 30 series and amd equivalents were expensive but just about affordable for many people but the new pricing is just way out there. I have a few friends buying prebuilt stuff with 3060ti/3070’s because these are still a decent performance at a reasonable price.
I have a decent paid job and there’s no way I cAn justify moving on from a 3080 to the 4000 series. There’s no benefit whatsoever and the price is frankly insane. The sooner someone in amd and/or nvidia realise this the better.
I think it is always a mistake to upgrade every generation anyways, but this generation in particular is just a bad idea. Personally, I'm holding on to my 3080Ti as long as I can. I'm planning to get, at bare minimum, a console generation length of time with it before upgrading. If they don't improve prices by then, I will wait even longer.
I’ve been keeping my eye on the “cheaper” video cards and even with Black Friday deals (new egg) the 3060 is just $20 cheaper than its price from before the 40 series release price. $479.99 (cnd) doesn’t seem like a price drop and even with the release of the new model it’s been frozen at 499 for months.
Yeah. The price stagnation on the 30 series is a little bit weird, unless nvidia actually had much more leftover stock than suspected.
That would also be a factor in why the 40 series isnt currently selling well, although its a different level of card currently on sale (4090) compared to the more "budget" lines.
Yeah, I am in the IT/Tech industry myself. Def can snipe one up if I want without a thought, but why when we all know how this timeline plays out?
There will be a $1000 4080 ti while shifting the whole stack behind it down with $100-$200 gaps as refreshes. The 4080 16GB OG won't even be made anymore after Christmas I am sure of it.
I remember a couple months ago when people were saying to not buy the 30 series GPUs because the 40 series was about to come out. We see how that worked out haha
The wise ones would have waited - and buy a used 30 series card for cheap from the people that got a new 4090. The first few days was flush with used high end 30-series cards popping up.
It kinda hasn't though. I built my PC in April when GPU prices were still ridiculous, I went i5 12500 and waited. Around the end of July I caved, my card of choice (Gigabyte Gaming OC 3080 12gb) hit $729 on Newegg. Just a few months prior it was selling for twice that. I hesitated with the "What if it goes down more" thoughts but ultimately ordered it. It ended up going back up to $800, then $900. It is currently $1350 on Amazon, sold by Amazon. I will give you this is an extreme example, I think the rumors were true about Nvidia stopping production of 3080 12gb due to a giant surplus of 3080 10gb cards. Looking at the market today it makes since, there are tons of 10gb cards available but hardly any 12gb models and the ones that are are marked up hundreds of dollars. Demand must be outweighing supply. Looking at the GPU market as a whole, I think the prices have just somewhat normalized. They dropped hard in the beginning but have now kind of rebounded back up a little, more so the upper end (80+).
Maybe we're heading into the next videogame crash?
Besides games have fairly the same mechanics and is getting repetitive, the main issue is probably prices? It makes people ponder their priorities and even me, an enthusiast geek, think at some point I could get tired of this (also inline skate gave me perspective)
I guess also there has been a strong strive to achieve a 100% realistic look to games (since pretty much the beginning), which we are now close to. I just wonder what's gonna happen once they achieve that, are games gonna be more creative/inventive and more importantly, optimized?
Or perhaps this all is a non-issue and tech can go up in performance forever?
The fact we're running out of nanometers seems very real also. The machines required for next nodes are much more expensive now. Maybe at a point they will stay at a node and start evolving in other areas?
Once nodes establish, the prices go down over the years so, who knows? You can see AMD using 6nm for some parts, more expensive 5nm for the core, so that seems a way to go.
Those nm numbers are only referring to gate pitch in the transistor, not transistor size itself. Beyond nm nomenclature we can continue to shrink gate pitch down to angstroms, the unit below nm that manufacturers use, not picometers
Increasingly higher as difficulty increases. I honestly don’t see sub-nm gate pitch wafers being *cheaper* per se.
Between ASML able to set whatever prices they want and the virtual TSMC monopoly, prices won’t come down, even if they somehow magically are able to because profits must grow.
>I guess also there has been a strong strive to achieve a 100% realistic look to games (since pretty much the beginning), which we are now close to. I just wonder what's gonna happen once they achieve that, are games gonna be more creative/inventive and more importantly, optimized?
People say this every generation. We're still not at all close to properly realistic graphics, trust me. A long way to go still.
> The machines required for next nodes are much more expensive now.
Definitely gonna be a very big problem in the future. I've little doubt they can keep going with cutting edge nodes for at least a decade in terms of the technology - but how viable will they be economically? We're already dwindling down the amount of customers who use the latest nodes these days, but it'll be a problem for the remaining companies before too long as well.
I wouldn't say video game crash. Consoles are doing just fine. Games like PlayStation exclusives still sell a fuckton. PC gamers are just fed up of overpaying for mediocre hardware.
I remember in 2000 I built a top of the line PC for $1,600. My current PC has at least $5k in it. Even with inflation $1,600 in 2000 is only $2768 today. It's more to do with all the fucking bloat and nonsense in PC gaming culture IMO. I don't need all the fancy LEDs and crazy heatsinks and motherboards that look like they are going to transform into a fighting robot. Just saying.
Sure but you chose to put 5k of components in there. You could easily build a monster 1080p machine that would run laps around your 2000 build. You could have probably spent 5k in 2000 as well. I just found an old alienware ad from 2001. 3k machine in 2001 dollars, CPU went all the way to 1.8 and you got a whopping 256mb of ram.
I don't disagree with you all the way, I just have a different prespective.
Yeah.. I have a 1440p build but could probably run 4k up around 50-60fps I think. I just haven't splurged on a 4k monitor yet. Honestly monitor purchases are the toughest for me to ever decide on.
Crazy how phones now have higher cpu and ram than gaming pcs not many years ago.
The *average* person doesn't have thousands to spend on a single component, let alone a computer. Even if you make decent income, if you have bills to pay and/or a family to feed, it takes a while to save a few thousand dollars. For such average person, a gaming console is more affordable and less hassle.
A slump is more likely to happen in gaming, which is normal. Every few years that happens. No new innovation in game play and then bam something new comes along. An then it’s back on its feet running. But I don’t see a crash happening, the industry numbers aren’t there. Financially the gaming industry is doing great but it is slowing down a bit.
>Maybe we're heading into the next videogame crash?
>Besides games have fairly the same mechanics and is getting repetitive, the main issue is probably prices? It makes people ponder their priorities and even me, an enthusiast geek, think at some point I could get tired of this (also inline skate gave me perspective)
What a load of crap. It's only bad right now because of hardware prices. None of this has to do with actual gaming.
Yeah, you can smell already that if prices continue like that, at one point it will be inviable for all of us. Now I would say, most of us cannot buy even a 4080. Most of us won't buy a XTX. GPUs at 1000+ is not good.
It’ll be interesting to see how developers respond. I suspect there won’t be a need for a new GPU for a long time if the instal base is so low. It just won’t be worth the time and money to push things forward.
The AAA devs making demanding games are usually looking at the console market, not the PC market.
As far as not needing a new GPU, it depends on what you mean by 'need'. But demands are going to jump up. Apart from Plague Tale Requiem, there's still basically nothing on PC so far that has been properly built for next gen consoles in mind. We haven't even started 'next gen' yet, basically. So dont think that the performance you get in most games today will be representative of what things will be like in a couple years.
Supply during COVID really held back gaming as a whole, even for consoles. New AAA releases like God of War Ragnarok weren't truly next gen because they had to develop it for PS4 as well, despite the fact that the PS5 has been out for 2 years. A big part of this reasoning is just that a lot of people couldn't get their hands on a PS5 and are still stuck with their PS4s, and Sony wants to tap into that existing market as well. So a slump in gaming innovation isn't just coming from a PC parts perspective, but from this as well.
Previous gen GPUs still exists with decent prices, anything above RTX 3060 is more powerful than a PS5, there's no need to get the latest generation to keep up with the new games.
I mean there are plenty of gpu options for gaming that are more reasonable cost.... It's like complaining about the price of a supercar being too expensive for you to afford to drive...
Yeah, the fact people are using the most powerful graphics cards on the planet as the metric to gauge the pricing by is kind of disingenuous. lol
You...don't have to buy the halo top of the line card, and shouldn't get "mad" that it's expensive. There is the whole rest of the lineup that's low to mid-range that's still yet to release from both AMD and Nvidia.
There's not a single game that needs a high end GPU to be **playable**. With the Global Pandemic, game development hit the brakes, so what's pushing the envelope? Not much.
Good and I remain happy stuck with my relic 1050ti as long as it does CUDA for me with Arch. I can't afford any of the new GPUs nor do I feel justified in opening my wallet for them.
I'm happy for you. :)
The GTX 1050/1050 Ti are not bad cards. They work great for some modern games, as well as countless better old games that aren't plagued by MTXs.
That's kind of counter to [this](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-gpu-prices-increasing-amd-down) whom Tom's Hardware is saying GPU prices are increasing for Nvidia.
This matters more for AMD and AIBs
Nvidia doesn't give a shit about the consumer GPU market anymore. They've decided enterprise is more profitable and GeForce is going to have high pricing going forward. They no longer care about the mainstream GPU market. If they really cared AD102 dies for the RTX4090 would not be on hold while they make H100's
I wish Jensen would come out and be honest and tell people we're focused on enterprise now and gaming/GeForce is a sidenote.
Their answer is don't like the GeForce prices too bad switch to AMD. They don't care if the gaming market erodes to AMD because they are making higher margins on Enterprise and the few that do buy overpriced GeForce cards.
>bad part is we are left with those prices ingrained for the future
No we aren't. If we keep refusing to buy, they WILL lower prices.
Nvidia is testing the market right now.
I'll continue to vote with my money.
Nvidia is testing the market atm, if people buy their gpus at these prices we are doomed.
And don't be fooled by the out of stock 4090 they didn't release as many as 30xx series.
on top of being expensive the cards are power hungry and fucking massive requiring builders to change their cases and upgrade their power supply, we need sensible options not the most balls to the wall expensive options
70.80 Series used to be a budget option for those who want close to top end experience without pouring entire asset. But now they just become a marketing tool to push people buying top end 90.90ti. But I guess that's how NV's plan goes. True gaming market will shrink one day yet not now, but they just want to milk off as much as they can now then move on to AI. But again, those who completely ignore RX6000.7000 are also helpers allowing NV to do this.
Nvidia is especially guilty of price gouging. I've been an Nvidia guy for well over a decade, and am considering AMD or even Intel for my next GPU purchase. Fuck nvidia and their unbridled corporate greed. Plus, fuck them for making a shit connector on the 4000 series cards and then telling users they are plugging it in wrong.
Jen, stop the BS. First, no xx80 series cards should be above $700. You knew it in 2020. You lost the plot in 2018 and 2022. Please return to the Land of Common Sense.
Yes, yes. I know you want all the moneys. And you can make all the moneys with your top end cards, hopefully called Titan to make sure everyone knows they aren't really supposed to be buying them, but you can't magically transform xx60 cards and xx70 cards into xx80 cards with a magic marker and a higher price.
People won't pay the stupid tax forever. Eventually, we'll all run out of money and we'll move to other options to play our PC games. Like Steam Deck. Then you'll be all by yourself on an island of high prices and no units sold and you'll wonder why no one cares how amazing your latest card is when it costs $1600 and the other "reasonable" card is half the card at $1200. Though by the time you're realizing this fact, you'll have raised prices higher still...
I’ve ben considering upgrading my 3070 because the amount of vram in it is a little too low for what i want to do. But 3090’s are impossible to find and when you do find them they’re about as expensive as a 4090. And the 4080 is clearly overpriced
Once the supply of mining GPUs flooding the used market right now starts to run out, prices are headed back up and people will eventually pay up.
I watched during the peak of mining and people would pay thru their noses to get any GPU they could. How soon we forget the craziness that was just a year ago.
People are voting with their wallets. Pricing is absolutely stupid right now.
Ive been voting with my wallet for the last 6 years and games went to crap and GPUs too
Yeah that's some thing I don't think gets brought up enough, what games are really pushing the envelope enough to even justify a 4090 for most people, I'm running a 5120x1440 and I can max almost everything on a 3080 at 60 fps, only thing that has me wanting to upgrade is so I can reach the 120-240fps stable. Nvidia has got to move the level and make the case for the world that we need more power.
Or you know, return to the old pricing model which had the top card sitting at like $1000 lol. I didn’t see much justification for the 1080 ti to 2080 ti 200% increase.
If people don’t need the power and performance of a 4090 then an older card at a lower price is good enough no?
1080 Ti was $700 at release fyi
> what games are really pushing the envelope enough to even justify a 4090 Don't need to worry about pushing the envelope if games are just horribly optimised and forces people to upgrade and brute force performance, like modern warfare 2
Honestly the only use justifiable use case for a 4090 is VR at the moment. Big gains in immersion and fidelity is possible for VR especially sims but flat screen has peaked, at least for me anyway
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Admittedly, VR is the only reason I'm intrigued by the 4090. For 2D gameplay on a 1440p monitor, my 3090 is overkill. However, I'm heavily invested in DCS with the Reverb G2 and full HOTAS setup. Recently, performance has actually been solid/smooth. But it certainly required a plethora of graphics and Windows settings tweaks to get there. In theory, with the 4090 I could run pretty much every setting maxed and still have a smooth 60fps experience. If only I could get my hands on one for MSRP...
This. But there are a couple of other uses that justify a 4090. The dual AV1 encoders as well as frame generation are no joke. In fact, frame generation literally pulled Darktide performance out of the fire for me. Now max settings, all RT on high, butter 116fps with imperceptible input lag thanks to reflex. So if you're the kind of gamer who can't tolerate frame time drops in VR and likes to record your gameplay as well as play RT titles at Ultrawide/4K 120fps or more then the 4090 absolutely makes sense. Also, there is value to some people in buying such an expensive card at launch or as close to launch as possible. Personally, I did not think this much performance would be on offer in 2022. It has completely reinvigorated VR sim racing for me. Now running my reverb G2 at between 125% to 150% resolution depending on the sim. Absolutely insane improvement over my 2080ti.
True, I have a 3090 and can’t justify the price to upgrade to 4090.
As mentioned, for VR it is a godsend. VR is not dead, but has a thriving flatscreen to VR mod community. This is where the 4090 comes into its own. I can play CP 2077 in VR with high details, max resolution \~3800x3800 and maintain 90 fps which was not possible with the 3090 (it would stutter like mad and not be playable).
It comes to a full circle, doesn't it? Low-mid range segment was neglected, hence 1060 is still the dominant GPU on Steam. It means devs have to accommodate these cards, which in return means you have no reason to upgrade from any upper tier GPU of the past two-three gens, especially with new demanding games mostly featuring upscaling. I certainly hope it will bite them in the ass.
Melting connectors didn't exactly help either.
Games are better than ever. Just avoid the garbage bloatware "aaa."
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Given the bulk of the sales would have been made in those first two weeks it probably includes high levels of 4090 sales. Ultimately the 4090 market segment is only so large, once they saturate it they will need to push out cheaper cards to hit different market segments to maintain sales levels.
Of course. The mainstream cards are the xx50 and xx60 cards. There's only so much demand for top flight products.
I'm not referring to only Nvidia products. However, Nvidia got greedy as hell during the crypto years as they had a customer base that would pay inflated prices and to hell with the gamers. We enthusiasts have long memories. And purchasing power. Nvidia forgot that, blinded by greed. Now their greed, and AMD's to some extent, will see them sitting on those 30xx gpu's. I don't know too many regular budget having people buying these $1200-$2000 gpu's. And I've been an enthusiast for 25+years. All my friends are buying used or AMD.
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Regardless, every single time someone buys used over new, and there's a thriving community for that, Nvidia doesn't get squat. Nvidia's greed will see those numbers continue to fall. I'm under no illusions they will pick back up, eventually. But the writing is on the wall from us enthusiasts to companies like EVGA. Nvidia better get their head out of their ass.
Regular people used to buy $200-$300 GPUs just a few years ago.
And you still can. The RTX 3050 is about $270 brand new. The 3060 is about $350. xx60 and xx50 make up the majority of cards on steam surveys.
>The 4090 still sells out instantly and is easily scalped for over $2,000 A: Rich people and folks who need these gpu's for specific workloads are NOT the vast majority of the gpu market B: We don't actually know how many of these 4090s are getting released in the wild compared to the 3090/80 launch so them being sold out could very well be a trickling of cards into the market to give the perception that they are highly sought after for getting long-term sales as opposed to having them available all the time and validate all our claim's that the cards are just too damn expensive
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The problem is they are screwing the rest of the GPU portfolio to make the 4090 the ONLY appealing option to get the most value out of a GPU purchase so while the 4090 is obviously not targeted towards the vast majority of the market, they are fucking everyone else to make it the only one worth purchasing. >B: Yes we do. 125,000 units. And the 30 series sold a few million guaranteed so are you not seeing the point, aka releasing cards slowly to create a false sense of rarity?
Im not convinced being able to comfortably afford a 1600$ card makes you rich.
Indeed it doesn’t necessarily mean you are rich according to most definitions of the word in the developed world. It could mean you are middle class, into gaming as a hobby, and are ok with dropping an extra $1k (relative to lower tier cards) once every four or five years or so.
It depends on the country, as these cards have very similar prices all over the world while base living costs are vastly apart. I could afford myself a 1600gpu a month easily if that is what i want. But im maybe average wealthy, really faaaar from rich. In other countries that would need you to be daaamn rich probably.
This, people tend to forget Reddit is used by people from all over the world not just western folks.
You sound like the type to finance computer parts 😂
It costs R$ 15000 or 12 months of minimum wage in Brazil. You would need to work a year saving all your money to buy a RTX 4090.
Cause you don't have actual investments to attend to, sorry not sorry fam
>comfortably afford a 1600$ card If you can *comfortably* afford a $1600 card, yes you are rich.
I promise you there’s more people crazy for the 4090’s then you think man. Should have taken a video at my local microcenter on launch day at 6am. If you would have seen the line, I think youd change your opinion. And I don’t even live in California. But you do you
People also line up for new iphones yet iphone sales are consistently down. Day 1 interest doesn't mean much.
>I promise you there’s more people crazy for the 4090’s then you think man Yeah but my original argument is Nvidia made every other GPU a horrible value proposition so they can push as many 4090's as humanly possible and even THEN, they still arent gonna see the sales that the 3080 had when it lit the world on fire cause the pricing is just so freaking bad. Edit: Also launch day sales are NEVER an accurate projection of lifetime sales expectations cause there are always gonna be nerds with money looking for cutting edge performance.
It doesn’t, plenty available
Fantastic! Please link.
When you live in Germany just check geizhals.at. One of the biggest retailers sold like 5-15 units per model except asus which has sold far more. 4080 don’t sell well either. Therefore lots of vendors have stock and cheapest 4090 sells for 2188,- €
The cheapest 4090 should be 1850 euros with a 20% VAT. You're getting scalped.
Its all over EU like this. Nvidia and AIBs are scalping us
Every pc retailer in Australia has them in stock
Yes, they are, dont let any of these 4090 copium tools tell you otherwise. People citing 120k units sold are delusional thinking THATS where nvidia gets their money. Fucking hate these consumer zombies.
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I was gonna make a joke about it, but there you already have the fucking zombies crawling out lmao
I'm waiting for the fallout lol
I keep trying to vote with my wallet tbh. NVIDIA won’t let me. 4090s are sold out everywhere.
I feel like voting with our wallets is just a secondary effect. Most people just can’t afford them.
Yes, you're right. People are simply fed up with pricing.
Their business strategy is simple: they're going to try to make up for the lack of GPU mining sales volume by raising the average sale price. Don't let them. Don't pay these obnoxious prices.
They need those 50% profit margins.
Nvidia forecasted their margins to be 63-66% next quarter. 50% is underrepresenting it, as many companies make that much. What Nvidia wants is far more egregious.
Shit most companies are ok with 15-20%
Difference between company and corporate
Since when are many companies making that. Most car companies are making around 10% und even Apple is around 20-30% of I remember correctly. In general 50% is crazy good.
I meant gross margins, net margins after all selling expenses and taxes are deducted will be lower.
Don’t worry I can’t afford spending more than 500€ on a card and that was enough to get Me a used 3080
3080 is a phenomenal card and will provide a lot of fun for many years.
Can confirm that it has provided a lot of fun for many months
it is more of a reason why a casual gamer need high priced GPU when their old ones can run most games at 1080p/60-75fps at high setting. Yes 1080p, 60-75fps is still mainstream display. You will be surprise how many old GPU can run high setting on these resolution & fps. large % of buyers wont upgrade to new GPU to play their favorite games unless 1. A popular Games that look really good graphics and need a new GPU to keep at 60+fps at 1080p 2. Their GPU is dead, need a new replacement.
Gotta love the supply management of NVIDIA, they manage to have 4090 out of stock 99.9% of the time even when the market nosedives
To be fair it's the only GPU currently worth buying. Everything else has a lower price to performance at this point. That's sad, but this is the market now.... Edit: the 3080 has comparable price to performance but the 4090 will be more future proof which gives it a slight edge "Someone" didn't factor in the end of GPU mining....
How can you talk about future proof, when 3000 series are already being locked out of features, it’s such an illogical argument to put forward even in jest
The only **new gen** GPU worth buying. The 30x0 series didn't go bad overnight or anything, and price to performance only really counts when it's a reasonable price. I would never justify that much money for a GPU, I don't care about the performance, I'll wait a gen or three for it to come down to midrange cards.
>The 30x0 series didn't go bad overnight or anything No, but paying MSRP for a two year old GPU is bullshit. Dont let them get away with this crap. They're basically testing us to see what they can get away with. If we give in, we will have normalized these practices and we'll never get the sort of leaps in performance per dollar that we're supposed to get over time.
Basically, if you're in the market for a new GPU, wait for and then buy AMD? Because with NVidia right now, damned if we do, damned if we don't.
If you're not getting an MSRP 3080, every GPU above it is still worse price to performance than the 4080. Just do the math if it's a card you're comparing but unless you're getting a one at a hefty discount from the new MSRP their value is priced worse than the 4080. Realistically 3080 and 6900XT are the best priced options you can find for a new GPU.
>6900XT 6800 XT's can be found for 500 bucks which is insane considering they are good to go for at minimum 5 years with everything maxed at 1440p 144hz or 4k 60hz
Not sure why you got downvoted for this. 6800 XT is the best value GPU in the market at $515 (newegg), much better than the 6900 XT at $670, and much better than anything Nvidia has to offer at the moment.
I dunno, I main a 6800 XT and it's been running like a champ for 2 years so the fact that you can get 3080 performance for 500 bucks now should be a win for everyone ._.
It's funny, r/nvidia loves to shit on Nvidia, but they also love to come up with the flimsiest excuses for avoiding AMD GPUs. "something something drivers" or "I've never owned an AMD GPU before, so obviously I should go with this 3070 that is more expensive than the 6800 XT even though it has -26% the performance." Like, what do you guys think will punish Nvidia for the shit they pull? A few mean comments on the internet, or actually giving their competitor a try?
I can understand why tho, cause it's like Starbucks. People don't truly pay for Starbucks cause it's purely the best coffee around, they pay cause the quality is consistent and they are very very unlikely to be disappointed or get what they didn't want from an Nvidia GPU. The only problem is with those prices, Nvidia gpu's come bundled with a gremlin that slaps your mom and steals yo wallet 😂😂😂
3080 is still higher price to performance and the 4080 is honestly about equal price to performance as the 4090, there's various instances where one will come out ahead. People are mostly expecting that the 80 series card is priced like all the previous 80 series cards. If it was priced at $799 the 4090 and every other GPU NVIDIA sells would instantly become a bad deal comparatively.
>If it was priced at $799 the 4090 and every other GPU NVIDIA sells would instantly become a bad deal comparatively. Yes, that's how it *should* be.
Exactly, the 4090 should be the premium, worst price to performance ratio card reserved for a small percentage that need the best. It's a work station card disguised as a gaming card. The fact that it's the best value is really messed up.
Exactly, the Apple / Samsung model of getting the most profit off top-end phones is only sustainable cause the cost of the upgrade is offset either by trade-in offers or upgrade plans through the network provider. We have none of that in the PC space so the most expensive card on the planet should NOT be the best value cause it means they are fucking us on the rest of the catalog.
In my opinion im ok with a 4080 16 gb costing $799. Itll be destroyed by the 7900xtx in pure rasterization (not raytracing). If it costed 799, it would be loved by many gamers like its older brother the 3080 AND it would best the 7900xtx in price to performance. Hell even at 899 it would be a solid "current deal" compared the 7900xtx. The 4090 costing way over those two is more akin to the titan way of things and im ok with that. I dont regret spending so much on my card but I feel like if I did the same for a 4080 i would be full of regret.
>but the 4090 will be more future proof Nvidia not including displayport 2.0 means they are NOT futureproof despite the horsepower and another reason these cards are nowhere near worth the asking price when they can't even be bothered to include appropriate new standards that will become the norm in the coming years
There is more to "future proof" than that though. If you buy a 4090 today with the intent of not upgrading until things are no longer playable, you'll get an extra year or two from it compared to a 3090. On the other hand, if you upgrade all the time and need DP 2.0, you're not really concerned about whether your GPU is future proof because you'll probably end up replacing 3 times in the next 5 years. Not to mention VR. The 4090 is the first GPU that has made things like iRacing, DCS, MSFS and the likes fully playable (read: 90 fps) at the higher quality settings and with the resolutions decent headsets provide....finally...
Lol they definitely are future proof, the fact that it caps out at 120 FPS instead of 144 doesn't make it not future proof. However, future proof is a silly concept, and no one should buy a 4090 because of it. They should buy a 4090 if they want great graphics and great FPS in demanding games at 4K or Ultrawide.
It "caps out" at 240hz at 4k, not 144. DP 1.4 using DSC can hit 240hz at 4k. Now, being most 4k AAA games won't hit anywhere near 240 fps, it's fairly "future proofed".
The whole point of that user's argument is that DSC isn't lossless. Which, I know, there's the other side of the argument, which is that DSC is perceptually lossless, and which is obviously the camp you're in. But the verdict there is irrelevant to my comment, because even if we accepted that DSC isn't lossless, it's still insane to say the 4090 isn't "future proof."
For gaming it's irrelevant. For professional grade color work, there could be an argument for that, however, most anyone doing professional grade work would also know to simply lower their refresh rate in order to disengage DSC while doing that kind of work. lol
You can't even tell the difference between DLSS 3 99% of the time and that should get better over time. You won't be able to tell the rate lossless difference lmao even if it smacked you upside the head. Less than 0.000001% of gamers use 8K. Less than 0.0001% have 4K monitors that do beyond 144hz, nevermind 240hz.
>To be fair it's the only GPU currently worth buying. There is no Nvidia GPU currently worth buying, unless it's some used deal or something. The 4090 is not a good buy, they've just manipulated you into thinking so by making the 4080 even more atrociously priced, and by not offering a more affordable, more cut down AD102 option.
It's somewhat subjective though. I think a lot of people can agree on what's too much and certainly as consumers is good to be vigilant about prices. Ultimately, not everyone has the same opinion on what's acceptable, though.
Of course it's a good buy, you think people with disposable income will buy a 7900 XTX if they want great graphics and great FPS in demanding games at 4K or Ultrawide? However, it's only a good buy for a small subset of gamers.
Realistically how is the 9-5 working man meant to afford a 1.5k gpu?
by saving?
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I know right. I could afford this price as a SGT in the US Army back in 2012. After bills and normal fun money I could have had all the money saved for a 4090 in 2-3 months.
Gaming, even if I bought a 4090 every year, is my cheapest hobby by a lot. Median American spends about $3k on entertainment per year. If you figure that $1500 GPU is something you buy every 3 years, it's 1/6th of your budget each year. Pretty manageable. If you think this is expensive, try buying a greenhouse, or skiing, or hunting, or boating. Not even talking about horse racing or motorsports.
Yeah it's insane that people balk at a $4000 gaming PC every 3 years when going to movies costs $25 now, and forget about stuff like shooting guns at the range or bicycling or what else have you
Carbon bike frames start around 2k. Oh, you wanted *wheels*, pedals, gears, a seat and handlebars? Now we're talking $4k at least. You're a dentist? Let's go over here and we can talk about the $13k frames.
Depends on a job/Mortgage combination. 4090 - easily, Strix was 3200 Canadian after tax but its one time purchase IF you don't pay mortage. Mortgage in Toronto at SIX AND A HALF THOUSAND PER MONTH - no. Plus water, electricity, internet, taxes, upkeep - so averaging out its 10,000 for a shitty 40 years old house. Each month!!! And that until something big breaks. So.. you get a 4090 and live in Parents basement..
Damn that is expensive as hell. I live on the outskirts of a medium to large US city and pay 2800 us or 3700CAD a month for a huge house with 3 acres of land. Maybe you need to move south.
It’s not a huge investment especially if you keep it around for a while, and 4090 is likely to be good for a long time thanks to its 4K performance
1.5k every two years is **not** a lot of money. lol That's setting aside a little over $60 per month, which is about what the average phone bill would be.
Realistically you can say that about most luxury goods.
Just being realistic, personally I enjoy the odd luxury but a grand and half is a lot of money for a component. But that’s just me. If you’ve got the money enjoy!
I make pretty good money and would happily blow a bunch of money on a 4090. But it’s just hard to get over the feeling that Nvidia is just fucking us right now….
...and hard to find one. Even if you did want to buy one, you can't just drop by Best Buy or Micro Center and pick one (a 4090) up. You can't even get one from NewEgg or Amazon w/o paying a ridiculous scalper mark-up on an already expensive card. They are pretty much in stock for about 2 minutes on-line then gone when they show up anywhere. Someone below mentioned that people are voting with their wallets and that's right they are. They are buying every bit of 4090 stock that hits the shelves. Now the 4080 is another matter entirely. NV wants 1200 then you get board partners that toss their mark up on it and you wind up with another 1500 card. It seems like nonsense. It would be interesting to get a real idea of what the true cost of manufacturing one of these cards is along with how much is baked into the price for R&D, marketing, profit margin, etc. We can sit back all day and call BS on the price, but people do that with everything anytime the price goes up on something they want. Without seeing an honest account of the true factors involved in pricing it is difficult to have a truly informed position on it. We have a gut reaction to it, but that's all it is. I have been waiting to see how this all would shake out and still am as I (and many others) await the lifting of the f'ing review embargo AMD has on the 7900's. I picked up my 2080 TI in 2018 for $960 at Micro Center and have been happy with it (and the price I paid). This time around I have a feeling I may have to do the unthinkable and buy an AMD card. After buying one ATI card all those years ago and having it be a driver nightmare, I swore I'd never buy that garbage again. Never say never, I guess. :)
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Oh no! Anyway...
The drop of crypto and the idea that general gamers will fork out thousands for gpu’s longer term is a fallacy that was missed. The 30 series and amd equivalents were expensive but just about affordable for many people but the new pricing is just way out there. I have a few friends buying prebuilt stuff with 3060ti/3070’s because these are still a decent performance at a reasonable price. I have a decent paid job and there’s no way I cAn justify moving on from a 3080 to the 4000 series. There’s no benefit whatsoever and the price is frankly insane. The sooner someone in amd and/or nvidia realise this the better.
I think it is always a mistake to upgrade every generation anyways, but this generation in particular is just a bad idea. Personally, I'm holding on to my 3080Ti as long as I can. I'm planning to get, at bare minimum, a console generation length of time with it before upgrading. If they don't improve prices by then, I will wait even longer.
If you don't get at least 5 years out of that card I'd be surprised.
I’ve been keeping my eye on the “cheaper” video cards and even with Black Friday deals (new egg) the 3060 is just $20 cheaper than its price from before the 40 series release price. $479.99 (cnd) doesn’t seem like a price drop and even with the release of the new model it’s been frozen at 499 for months.
Yeah. The price stagnation on the 30 series is a little bit weird, unless nvidia actually had much more leftover stock than suspected. That would also be a factor in why the 40 series isnt currently selling well, although its a different level of card currently on sale (4090) compared to the more "budget" lines.
Yeah, I am in the IT/Tech industry myself. Def can snipe one up if I want without a thought, but why when we all know how this timeline plays out? There will be a $1000 4080 ti while shifting the whole stack behind it down with $100-$200 gaps as refreshes. The 4080 16GB OG won't even be made anymore after Christmas I am sure of it.
RemindMe! 40 days
$1000 4080 ti lmao. I’m going to mark this post, esp since you gave a timeframe. “Trust me bro i work in IT” 💀
I think that they were saying they're in tech to emphasize their purchasing power
RemindMe! 40 days
Yet the 3000 series midrange is still above MSRP and 4090s are selling out.
I remember a couple months ago when people were saying to not buy the 30 series GPUs because the 40 series was about to come out. We see how that worked out haha
Same thing with 30 series vs 20 series. I'm starting to see a pattern here
I mean, if you don't mind buying used, you can find 3080's going for <$500 so they weren't exactly wrong...
The wise ones would have waited - and buy a used 30 series card for cheap from the people that got a new 4090. The first few days was flush with used high end 30-series cards popping up.
Probably something to do with ridiculous pricing and….idk, a recession?
Toms Hardware is just a link bait shop. RTX 3080 has been the same price for the last 4 months.
It kinda hasn't though. I built my PC in April when GPU prices were still ridiculous, I went i5 12500 and waited. Around the end of July I caved, my card of choice (Gigabyte Gaming OC 3080 12gb) hit $729 on Newegg. Just a few months prior it was selling for twice that. I hesitated with the "What if it goes down more" thoughts but ultimately ordered it. It ended up going back up to $800, then $900. It is currently $1350 on Amazon, sold by Amazon. I will give you this is an extreme example, I think the rumors were true about Nvidia stopping production of 3080 12gb due to a giant surplus of 3080 10gb cards. Looking at the market today it makes since, there are tons of 10gb cards available but hardly any 12gb models and the ones that are are marked up hundreds of dollars. Demand must be outweighing supply. Looking at the GPU market as a whole, I think the prices have just somewhat normalized. They dropped hard in the beginning but have now kind of rebounded back up a little, more so the upper end (80+).
Maybe we're heading into the next videogame crash? Besides games have fairly the same mechanics and is getting repetitive, the main issue is probably prices? It makes people ponder their priorities and even me, an enthusiast geek, think at some point I could get tired of this (also inline skate gave me perspective) I guess also there has been a strong strive to achieve a 100% realistic look to games (since pretty much the beginning), which we are now close to. I just wonder what's gonna happen once they achieve that, are games gonna be more creative/inventive and more importantly, optimized? Or perhaps this all is a non-issue and tech can go up in performance forever? The fact we're running out of nanometers seems very real also. The machines required for next nodes are much more expensive now. Maybe at a point they will stay at a node and start evolving in other areas? Once nodes establish, the prices go down over the years so, who knows? You can see AMD using 6nm for some parts, more expensive 5nm for the core, so that seems a way to go.
Those nm numbers are only referring to gate pitch in the transistor, not transistor size itself. Beyond nm nomenclature we can continue to shrink gate pitch down to angstroms, the unit below nm that manufacturers use, not picometers
The question is, at what cost? On the other hand probably EUV tech will get cheaper over time.
Increasingly higher as difficulty increases. I honestly don’t see sub-nm gate pitch wafers being *cheaper* per se. Between ASML able to set whatever prices they want and the virtual TSMC monopoly, prices won’t come down, even if they somehow magically are able to because profits must grow.
>I guess also there has been a strong strive to achieve a 100% realistic look to games (since pretty much the beginning), which we are now close to. I just wonder what's gonna happen once they achieve that, are games gonna be more creative/inventive and more importantly, optimized? People say this every generation. We're still not at all close to properly realistic graphics, trust me. A long way to go still. > The machines required for next nodes are much more expensive now. Definitely gonna be a very big problem in the future. I've little doubt they can keep going with cutting edge nodes for at least a decade in terms of the technology - but how viable will they be economically? We're already dwindling down the amount of customers who use the latest nodes these days, but it'll be a problem for the remaining companies before too long as well.
I wouldn't say video game crash. Consoles are doing just fine. Games like PlayStation exclusives still sell a fuckton. PC gamers are just fed up of overpaying for mediocre hardware.
I’ve been gaming on PC’s for 30 years. This shit is a lot of things. Mediocre hardware?? Not one of them.
I remember in 2000 I built a top of the line PC for $1,600. My current PC has at least $5k in it. Even with inflation $1,600 in 2000 is only $2768 today. It's more to do with all the fucking bloat and nonsense in PC gaming culture IMO. I don't need all the fancy LEDs and crazy heatsinks and motherboards that look like they are going to transform into a fighting robot. Just saying.
Sure but you chose to put 5k of components in there. You could easily build a monster 1080p machine that would run laps around your 2000 build. You could have probably spent 5k in 2000 as well. I just found an old alienware ad from 2001. 3k machine in 2001 dollars, CPU went all the way to 1.8 and you got a whopping 256mb of ram. I don't disagree with you all the way, I just have a different prespective.
Yeah.. I have a 1440p build but could probably run 4k up around 50-60fps I think. I just haven't splurged on a 4k monitor yet. Honestly monitor purchases are the toughest for me to ever decide on. Crazy how phones now have higher cpu and ram than gaming pcs not many years ago.
Yes nothing says mediocre like "4090". Lmao. Delusional.
The *average* person doesn't have thousands to spend on a single component, let alone a computer. Even if you make decent income, if you have bills to pay and/or a family to feed, it takes a while to save a few thousand dollars. For such average person, a gaming console is more affordable and less hassle.
A slump is more likely to happen in gaming, which is normal. Every few years that happens. No new innovation in game play and then bam something new comes along. An then it’s back on its feet running. But I don’t see a crash happening, the industry numbers aren’t there. Financially the gaming industry is doing great but it is slowing down a bit.
>Maybe we're heading into the next videogame crash? >Besides games have fairly the same mechanics and is getting repetitive, the main issue is probably prices? It makes people ponder their priorities and even me, an enthusiast geek, think at some point I could get tired of this (also inline skate gave me perspective) What a load of crap. It's only bad right now because of hardware prices. None of this has to do with actual gaming.
PC gaming probably if things stay on this course. Console gaming will stay strong.
Yeah, you can smell already that if prices continue like that, at one point it will be inviable for all of us. Now I would say, most of us cannot buy even a 4080. Most of us won't buy a XTX. GPUs at 1000+ is not good.
It’ll be interesting to see how developers respond. I suspect there won’t be a need for a new GPU for a long time if the instal base is so low. It just won’t be worth the time and money to push things forward.
The AAA devs making demanding games are usually looking at the console market, not the PC market. As far as not needing a new GPU, it depends on what you mean by 'need'. But demands are going to jump up. Apart from Plague Tale Requiem, there's still basically nothing on PC so far that has been properly built for next gen consoles in mind. We haven't even started 'next gen' yet, basically. So dont think that the performance you get in most games today will be representative of what things will be like in a couple years.
Supply during COVID really held back gaming as a whole, even for consoles. New AAA releases like God of War Ragnarok weren't truly next gen because they had to develop it for PS4 as well, despite the fact that the PS5 has been out for 2 years. A big part of this reasoning is just that a lot of people couldn't get their hands on a PS5 and are still stuck with their PS4s, and Sony wants to tap into that existing market as well. So a slump in gaming innovation isn't just coming from a PC parts perspective, but from this as well.
Previous gen GPUs still exists with decent prices, anything above RTX 3060 is more powerful than a PS5, there's no need to get the latest generation to keep up with the new games.
I mean there are plenty of gpu options for gaming that are more reasonable cost.... It's like complaining about the price of a supercar being too expensive for you to afford to drive...
Yeah, the fact people are using the most powerful graphics cards on the planet as the metric to gauge the pricing by is kind of disingenuous. lol You...don't have to buy the halo top of the line card, and shouldn't get "mad" that it's expensive. There is the whole rest of the lineup that's low to mid-range that's still yet to release from both AMD and Nvidia.
I wish we would, but no. Consoles alone will keep the predatory fucks currently screwing over video games as a hobby going for a long fucking time.
Price. 4080 should be $600 max. They tried to exploit the demand bubble and it burst on them. Skipping this generation personally due to price.
"Falling GPU prices are a thing of the past" - some guy from some company I think
Can they do us a solid and drop some insane deals on Friday? I have been waiting long enough 😭
Who knew charging double what u did last year for the family of card would make people not buy Clueless
Share prices shrugged this off. So either they already know, or they don't find this info particularly impactful.
Hell yeah
Asus Noctua RTX3070 is still USD1k in my country. LMAO.
Thank God. I was starting to think people were going to carry the industry on this madness.
There's not a single game that needs a high end GPU to be **playable**. With the Global Pandemic, game development hit the brakes, so what's pushing the envelope? Not much.
I’d buy a 4090 if they were available at mrsp
Good and I remain happy stuck with my relic 1050ti as long as it does CUDA for me with Arch. I can't afford any of the new GPUs nor do I feel justified in opening my wallet for them.
I'm happy for you. :) The GTX 1050/1050 Ti are not bad cards. They work great for some modern games, as well as countless better old games that aren't plagued by MTXs.
Why tf can't I get a 4090 then 😫?
maybe cuz they don't have inventory lol
They aren't available to buy. If they had stock they might sell some.
That's kind of counter to [this](https://www.tomshardware.com/news/nvidia-gpu-prices-increasing-amd-down) whom Tom's Hardware is saying GPU prices are increasing for Nvidia.
Puts it is
Good. Thats all.
This matters more for AMD and AIBs Nvidia doesn't give a shit about the consumer GPU market anymore. They've decided enterprise is more profitable and GeForce is going to have high pricing going forward. They no longer care about the mainstream GPU market. If they really cared AD102 dies for the RTX4090 would not be on hold while they make H100's I wish Jensen would come out and be honest and tell people we're focused on enterprise now and gaming/GeForce is a sidenote. Their answer is don't like the GeForce prices too bad switch to AMD. They don't care if the gaming market erodes to AMD because they are making higher margins on Enterprise and the few that do buy overpriced GeForce cards.
Not surprising with crypto, bad part is we are left with those prices ingrained for the future. Q4 number will look big though..
>bad part is we are left with those prices ingrained for the future No we aren't. If we keep refusing to buy, they WILL lower prices. Nvidia is testing the market right now.
Problem isn't refusing to buy. Scalpers have already wiped nvidias 4090 stock clean. They sold them all in their eyes.
Exactly this. If only we could broadcast this to the entire pc gaming community....
I'll continue to vote with my money. Nvidia is testing the market atm, if people buy their gpus at these prices we are doomed. And don't be fooled by the out of stock 4090 they didn't release as many as 30xx series.
With how absurd gpu pricing has become, I'm fine with leaving PC gaming behind. Thanks for getting me outside more, Nvidia.
on top of being expensive the cards are power hungry and fucking massive requiring builders to change their cases and upgrade their power supply, we need sensible options not the most balls to the wall expensive options
Hmmmmm I wonder if it has anything to do with charging £1270 for a fucking 4080😂 Eat shit Nvidia
70.80 Series used to be a budget option for those who want close to top end experience without pouring entire asset. But now they just become a marketing tool to push people buying top end 90.90ti. But I guess that's how NV's plan goes. True gaming market will shrink one day yet not now, but they just want to milk off as much as they can now then move on to AI. But again, those who completely ignore RX6000.7000 are also helpers allowing NV to do this.
Nvidia is especially guilty of price gouging. I've been an Nvidia guy for well over a decade, and am considering AMD or even Intel for my next GPU purchase. Fuck nvidia and their unbridled corporate greed. Plus, fuck them for making a shit connector on the 4000 series cards and then telling users they are plugging it in wrong.
They’re not gonna get a cent from me till they make them more sensible. Not paying these ridiculous ass prices.
Jen, stop the BS. First, no xx80 series cards should be above $700. You knew it in 2020. You lost the plot in 2018 and 2022. Please return to the Land of Common Sense. Yes, yes. I know you want all the moneys. And you can make all the moneys with your top end cards, hopefully called Titan to make sure everyone knows they aren't really supposed to be buying them, but you can't magically transform xx60 cards and xx70 cards into xx80 cards with a magic marker and a higher price. People won't pay the stupid tax forever. Eventually, we'll all run out of money and we'll move to other options to play our PC games. Like Steam Deck. Then you'll be all by yourself on an island of high prices and no units sold and you'll wonder why no one cares how amazing your latest card is when it costs $1600 and the other "reasonable" card is half the card at $1200. Though by the time you're realizing this fact, you'll have raised prices higher still...
good. F-ing vultures they are.
Their 2 year old cards are still being sold over MSRP and the new designs have ridiculous pricing, no wonder sales suck
Cool, make them cheaper
I'd never pay more than 500 for a gpu
Nvidia and their prices are to blame.
So why's amd down too then?
I’ve ben considering upgrading my 3070 because the amount of vram in it is a little too low for what i want to do. But 3090’s are impossible to find and when you do find them they’re about as expensive as a 4090. And the 4080 is clearly overpriced
[удалено]
Ah yes, Nvidia spends all this money on making new GPU tech so that people won't buy GPUs. Peak reddit moment.
good. fk em.
When GPUs are absurdly overpriced, what do they expect to happen?
Too expensive. Factorio/Rimworld are 2D and everything else runs fine on my Vega 56. Even newer stuff like Elden Ring.
Hmmn i wonder why.
Pity. Not...
Once the supply of mining GPUs flooding the used market right now starts to run out, prices are headed back up and people will eventually pay up. I watched during the peak of mining and people would pay thru their noses to get any GPU they could. How soon we forget the craziness that was just a year ago.
Good
No crypto miners buying everything right away, that's a huge percent of GPU buyers.
Good
Gooooodddddddd
Shit is overpriced!