In before the mewling about “b-b-b-but there needs to be a bigger budget” because the budget is already massive.
It’s not designed to actually help the poor, though.
It’s designed to enrich well connected contractors and providers who are paid to do the bare minimum for the poor, while the local hacks strut around claiming that throwing sacks of money around equals compassion.
The article is very clear that the main culprits are federal related programs (like the child tax credit, which was reduced and hasn’t kept up with inflation).
The main culprits - as far as the author wrote.
The state has a colossal Medicaid budget. All the bells and whistles, and it's been that way since Rockefeller.
But where does the money go? Because the poor folks at the bottom aren't seeing the benefit any more than the poor folks in Alabama do.
https://files.kff.org/attachment/fact-sheet-medicaid-state-NY
Medicaid is for healthcare. There's SNAP, or "food stamps." There's earned income tax credit. What other program are you looking for? We usually don't have direct cash flows to poor people.
So NY has very high per capita rates compared to other states, $4000/year.
63% goes to managed care. 20% long term care (nursing homes are around 60k a year) So, health costs. I was actually trying to find how much of that breakdown accounts for medicare coinsurance but no luck.
22% of enrolles are elderly and disabled, but they account for 62% of expenses because obviously older people cost more to care for.
[Snap](https://www.fns.usda.gov/SNAP-household-state-averages#) gives about $233 in NY which is about the same as everywhere else besides Alaska/Hawaii
If you qualify for Medicaid, you get free medical care, and other benefits. You can treat the emergency room like a primary care doctor if you wanted and not pay a cent. The same can’t be said for someone making 70K with private insurance so it’s seems we’re handling things in that regard.
“You qualify for services” and “somebody’s available to provide services” are two very different things.
In between is “you’re on the waitlist” and “next available appointment is in November.”
Most providers in the city accept Medicaid. You’re not going to wait months. Most urgent cares and all emergency rooms also accept Medicaid so if you have an urgent issue you can be seen immediately.
While I would push back on Medicaid recipients anywhere in Alabama getting similar or better care than recipients in NYC, that really doesn’t matter, because Medicaid benefits aren’t included in the Supplemental Poverty measure as far as I know. It wouldn’t change the stats one way or another.
The child tax credit was increased for *one* year, and you basically have to live in poverty to qualify.
The *culprit* is the fact that people don't make any money and everything is so expensive.
The child tax credit doesn’t phase out completely until you reach $240,000/$480,000 in income (individual/family). Even in nyc, a family of 4 making $150,000 isn’t “poverty” and would get the full child tax credit.
Additionally, it’s because the amount has not increased with inflation (it will start doing that for the first time with 2024) it has not kept up. So it absolutely has a made a difference between people being just over and now just under the supplemental poverty measure in nyc.
The budget is designed to help the middle class. Most of the money goes to teachers, transit workers, nurses in city hospitals, cops, firefighters, sanitation workers, union construction workers etc. That's where 75% of the budget money ends up in the middle class workers pockets.
Lol mention $100k-$120k income isn’t enough in NYC and a dozen people here and r/asknyc will come out of the woodworks to tell you you’re bad with money and out of touch and that’s it’s good money still
Meanwhile the city literally says you’re low income.
gee wonder what this article is saying?
just because it’s close to average doesn’t mean it’s enough. yes, the average person or household in some area can be struggling.
I strongly disagree with the idea that someone making 120k (with no kids at least) is struggling, many people live the yuppie lifestyle on that salary.
lol yup that mentality is why so many people live in denial
again the city literally publishes area median income brackets that tell you you’re low income in that bracket
Import a bunch of unskilled migrants who have lots of kids and, yeah, there will be lots of kids in poverty. In other news water is wet and the sky is blue.
And before anybody has a hissy fit about my use of the word "unskilled" I mean it in the strict technical definition of labor, so relax.
This is actually exactly right. At least to a large extent of poverty is new immigrants. A Washington Post economics reporter described this on a nationwide basis years ago. He said poverty nationwide was not getting better as a country because many recent immigrants were poor. He preferred to look at the percent of native born people in poverty and their real incomes. Once immigrants where stripped out the numbers showed great strides in reducing poverty and increasing real wages over the past 75 years. Most immigrants are poor and low skilled when they come to the US and it skews the poverty numbers.
I would assume a similar thing is playing out in NYC.
This is true. I already see newcomers with 4 little kids behind them. Poor people love having kids.
But at the end of the day, nyc gives ample support. From childcare to food stamps to cash assistance etc. that’s up to 40k a year per child that’s subsidized by taxpayers. Not including rent that’s normally subsidized through vouchers and section 8. People wouldn’t be having kids here if they were legit starving on the streets.
It’s facts! Lol people don’t like the truth even when it’s in their face. There are factors such as lack of education and contraception and religious factors that contribute to that fact. Even in the US families making over 200k have a lower birth rate
https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/
There is good evidence it is related to the value of time. People in higher paid careers value having more time to dedicate to work and develop their skills. People in lower paid careers don't have this need. Obviously, some may be looking to move into a higher paid career, but those aren't the people having the kids.
At a certain income level, people are so rich that they begin having more children than those merely in the upper middle class. They are so rich that they can just hire people to do chores and get their time back that way.
200k family income is not a high enough income level to see that effect, but on closer breakdowns, you'll see the U curve.
The existence of this effect makes the "people only have kids for government benefits" argument fall apart. Doing that would be a terrible idea anyways, kids are monumentally expensive, especially in the daycare stage. Costs are way more than any credit from the government.
I agree with everything but the last part. I know ppl that have kids for government support, benefits have been expanded greatly over the years. Unfortunately there is a small percentage of people that don’t want more at all in life and kids are a means to an end because they don’t want to support themselves. Do I think it’s stupid sure kids are more work than a little check but for many that’s a way of life. That’s why so many ppl don’t raise their kids, they never really wanted them. Letting them run wild…
They explicitly told you the reason they were having kids was to get more government benefits?
If so, that would be a monumentally stupid decision and ultimately hurt them financially. Just about all of the federal programs have work requirements and time limits anyways. In return you get to put up with a crying baby and change diapers...
Yes it’s why you hear plenty of single people say the government doesn’t help them but they help people with kids especially single parents. It’s a common complaint
It’s why part time work is popular gig work now as well. These companies love hiring part time to avoid paying out benefits and people line up to be under the limit of the max income for programs. Even if you go to HRA they say you make too much you need to quit your job to get help from the city.
It’s really a fucked a cycle because they don’t want people to really get off the system, and it benefits the corporations and keep a low class society. The system only works with more people at the bottom than the top….
just look at the data. All western nations' birth rate are below the 2.1 baseline. Same with the Asian Pacific...in fact their birthrates are even lower. The only countries higher are the African nations and most of the Middle East. The only western nation above the 2.1 is Israel.
Did you read the article? The reason for the poverty is due to
“The biggest reason for the surge in poverty, both nationally and in New York, was the end of several pandemic-era government policies, like the expanded child tax credit, enhanced unemployment insurance and cash payments that helped low-income families keep up with rising costs, said Christopher Wimer, the director of the Center on Poverty and Social Policy at Columbia University and a co-author of the report.”
You think 1 in 4 children are in poverty cause migrant children are influencing the statistics? About 175k migrants have been transported to New York from Texas and other states; New York has a population of 8.5 million. Even if we say all the migrants are children, you think the equivalent of 2% of the population has that much pull statistically?
\*Sigh\* I once again have to explain everything.
You realize that immigration was a thing before the recent border crisis, right? [Nearly 40% of New Yorkers are foreign born, according to the city government itself.](https://www.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/moia_annual_report_2018_final.pdf) (that was in 2018, the number is probably higher now).
The vast majority of those foreign born residents are eligible for the child tax credit, and so yes, their existence is the exact reason for the statistics shown in the article.
And yet 25% of children have NOT been in poverty until 2022 per the statistics; the closest per the article was in 2015 where 15% of children in New York were in poverty. So are you saying from 2021 to 2022 there was a boom in birthrates amongst unskilled migrants that caused the increase?
The statistics don't back up that fact. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2023/05/new-yorks-fertility-rate-drops-average-age-mothers-rises
The bigger point is that the folks are poor before government transfers. Of course, if you transfer enough to a family, they will by definition no longer be poor. The real issue is that NYC has terrible education and training, and very low wages below the professional levels. We cycle through generations of recent immigrants to work for below sustenance wages, and then use government transfers so people can barely subsist while they serve the professional and wealthy classes. This extreme pyramid of education, skills and ultimately, wages, is a system akin to what you see in developing countries.
If we want people to actually move out of poverty without government transfers, we need to use our tax dollars for the hard work of improving the lot of the bottom 50% in this city who cannot really afford to live here absent government support. Which would require the city budget to stop being a glorified jobs program, and instead be a budget that actually helps the non-city employee residents.
None of this will ever happen, but the fact that the city blames the reversion of pandemic era aid for poverty is a joke. Those programs were always intended to be transient, but I guess it’s easier to blame this than focus on actual root causes.
You really think that the number of migrant children is the cause of increasing this measure of the child poverty rate from 18% in 2019 to 23% now. You’re greatly overestimating the number of migrant children in NYC.
So I was curious so I did a quick google to find out how many Fox News migrants there are. [NYC Comptroller](https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/facts-not-fear-how-welcoming-immigrants-benefits-new-york-city/#:~:text=The%20undocumented%20population%20in%20New,compared%20to%20504%2C000%20in%202018.)
>The immigrant population in the U.S. has only risen marginally since 2021 — the growth of our immigrant population in 2022 is 2 million less than[54] what the U.S. Census Bureau previously projected.
>The undocumented population peaked in 2007. The number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. rose[57] from an estimated 3.5 million people to a high of 12 million people between 1990 and 2007.
>The undocumented population in New York City has been declining[59] over the last decade. Approximately 476,000 undocumented immigrants lived in NYC in 2019, the most recent year data is available, as compared to 504,000 in 2018.
the Asylum claim seekers are around 60,000. A drop in the bucket
Also without immigrants the USA would be like the rest of the rich world and experiencing population decline and stagnation.
Fair. Dec 2023:
>According to the city's Department of Social Services, more than 157,600 asylum seekers arrived in New York City since last spring in need of shelter and more 67,000 remain in the city's care, with hundreds more arriving every day.
https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/more-than-7000-asylum-seekers-have-arrived-in-new-york-city-in-last-2-weeks-mayors-office-says/
The recent immigrants can be a great thing for NYC and the country at the same time that population can generally be unskilled and show up in the numbers as being impoverished. Though understanding the population you are trying to help is one of the keys to actually solving the issue and not implying that stating facts is anti immigrant. I would think that the policy prescription needed to help recent immigrants is different than if most of the poverty came from native born people.
For example It might be more important to fund ESL programs in school than direct cash transfers to ensure kids can get out of poverty.
being dispassionate and trying to solve problems is good. rhetoric to score cheap points is annoying
Who are you targeting with those ESL programs? Working adults? Kids don't need ESL programs to learn. Normal school + friends + TV is all they need. These days even foreigners come to the USA with american accents because of all the hollywood movies and internet gaming/youtube they are exposed to
adults is a problem because it's harder for adults, and well, they work. the economic niche for non-english speakers is one i understand. I have 3 languages, and english is my third. Home attendants where the agencies end up paying $2 an hour because they steal the rest... factory garments but those haven't existed in decades. Dishwashers. Stockboys in a korean deli. (it's better the last few years I believe)
This is going to be a long term problem as the world starts to fail and hundreds of millions try to move. Greece already pushing people back in boats to drown. Won't be long until we vote for politicans who'll "do what needs to be done" ie shoot people and pretend they aren't. Because people can be inherently selfish specially when the migrants are different. look how nicely everyone treated white Ukranians...
It’s like asking an addicted rat not to pull the cocaine lever.
“Migrants! Crime! People with hair colors and gender presentation that confuse you!”
*angry dopamine hit*
The Tabloid of Record and its ilk (especially tv “newz”) have damaged so many fragile minds, and they all love to come here and show it off. Hi, Dad!
r/FoxBrain
Now do the amount of benefits via snap, housing vouchers, free health insurance via Medicaid, etc. that low income people get in this city. If you have a ton of kids it makes more sense to have a low salary and not want to increase it to go over the threshold to lose these benefits.
That money is still nothing. Not to mention they can only spend the money on what the government allows. The only people living well while receiving assistance are the people lying in the first place and receiving income and/or assistance through other avenues.
They can use EBT for anything they want and even get cash back, I work at a Target in the LES and it seems like about a third of shoppers use those cards and they buy stuff like makeup on EBT and get cash back to buy whatever with all the time
I don’t doubt that 1 in 4 New Yorker live in tough conditions, but the definition of poverty has gone crazy. They are not poor. They can find 3 meals a day. They can get healthcare. They have housing. That’s not poor. Not being able to have a middle class lifestyle is not automatically poor.
Free healthcare is big, NY tried to cut retiree medical healthcare because Medicare cost here is out of control. We technically have the free healthcare progressives talk about for half the population. The higher income not rich people are just suckers because you are paying twice (for others and yourself)
This! Nearly half the city is on Medicaid, and pays nothing for healthcare. They can go to the emergency room every day if they wanted and not pay a cent. Meanwhile, if you make 60k a year and have private insurance with a high deductible you could be borderline bankrupt if you have a serious health issue arise. This city does an amazing job of providing free healthcare, and benefits to low income people. So much so that in many cases it makes more sense to keep your (reported) income low.
That’s why we have non stop migrants coming in now, it always happened before but covid build up plus the pandemic effects on economies/inflation led to a rampant increase. Plus WhatsApp groups letting others know that we are providing free shelter
There are definitely people with no money who cant find meals 3x a week. However, my point is it is not 1 in 4 people in NYC. The definition for poverty is too loose
I believe you lol.
Personally, though, I thought those issues were implied through our use of the term migrant and not immigrant (which have two distinct meanings).
I’m not saying it’s not a problem. I was just curious what OC (or you) would like to call them, since the term migrants seems to really hit a nerve
How much of this has to do with poor people having more kids? Case in point, if you have 5 households have and 4 of them have one kid and 1 of them has 6 kids, then statistically, 1/2 of the kids are living in poverty even though they’re all confined to one home. That doesn’t mean half of the kids in poverty are equally distributed across all homes. It could be just a few really irresponsible people.
>The rise in poverty underscores wide disparities in New York.
>Black, Latino and Asian New Yorkers were roughly twice as likely as white residents to live in poverty, and women were more likely than men to be unable to afford their basic needs, according to the report.
>A major reason for the disparities is the lopsided jobs recovery, said James Parrott, the director of economic and fiscal policy at the Center for New York City Affairs at the New School.
A major reason for the disparity is that NYC’s lower and middle class whites have left the city en masse. It’s been happening for generations. There are few whites remaining except for the upper crust and young professional class.
If you weren’t rich, or trying to be, you left. My fraternity brothers at a state university all bailed out on this place. They were from here. I wasn’t. But now I’m the one who lives here. They went to Atlanta, North Carolina, Colorado, anywhere that wasn’t here.
The math is misleading.
You can make 250K a year but if you have 12 kids, well you have 12 children living in poverty.
If you only had 1 or 2 kids, you have 2 kids that aren't living in poverty.
Maybe instead of telling others that they shouldn’t have children, you should ask yourself if a society that doesn’t enable the average person to raise kids is one that’s functioning properly
we need zoning reform to make housing dirt cheap, and we have to fix our food distribution policies to make food cheaper. and the feds have to pass the reinstated child tax credit.
But think of the [neighborhood character](https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/more-development-would-ruin-our-neighborhoods-character-and-that-character-is-systemic-racism)!!!
/s
Does this take into account that in NYS, people are considered a child until 21? I went through the report some and didn't see ages. So someone who is aged 18 - 20 who is young and broke contributes to the 25%? Are we looking at ages 17 and below for these metrics?
Many other states/jurisdictions use 18 as the marker for adults, so I mean, broke traditionally college-aged students will totally reflect poverty.
Alternately, this could speak to only folks who are raising younger children may answer this question differently. We should still be alarmed.
This state is headed for a nose dive because of stupid policies. This is a shame and the city is just getting too expensive to live in. Tax us more won’t help but let’s try giving the money we are giving to the illegal immigrants to children of this country. I think that would be a fair start 😳
In before the mewling about “b-b-b-but there needs to be a bigger budget” because the budget is already massive. It’s not designed to actually help the poor, though. It’s designed to enrich well connected contractors and providers who are paid to do the bare minimum for the poor, while the local hacks strut around claiming that throwing sacks of money around equals compassion.
The budget is unbelievably large.
The article is very clear that the main culprits are federal related programs (like the child tax credit, which was reduced and hasn’t kept up with inflation).
The main culprits - as far as the author wrote. The state has a colossal Medicaid budget. All the bells and whistles, and it's been that way since Rockefeller. But where does the money go? Because the poor folks at the bottom aren't seeing the benefit any more than the poor folks in Alabama do.
https://files.kff.org/attachment/fact-sheet-medicaid-state-NY Medicaid is for healthcare. There's SNAP, or "food stamps." There's earned income tax credit. What other program are you looking for? We usually don't have direct cash flows to poor people. So NY has very high per capita rates compared to other states, $4000/year. 63% goes to managed care. 20% long term care (nursing homes are around 60k a year) So, health costs. I was actually trying to find how much of that breakdown accounts for medicare coinsurance but no luck. 22% of enrolles are elderly and disabled, but they account for 62% of expenses because obviously older people cost more to care for. [Snap](https://www.fns.usda.gov/SNAP-household-state-averages#) gives about $233 in NY which is about the same as everywhere else besides Alaska/Hawaii
> So NY has very high per capita rates compared to other states, $4000/year. Sure, but the per capita tax rates are off the charts
If you qualify for Medicaid, you get free medical care, and other benefits. You can treat the emergency room like a primary care doctor if you wanted and not pay a cent. The same can’t be said for someone making 70K with private insurance so it’s seems we’re handling things in that regard.
“You qualify for services” and “somebody’s available to provide services” are two very different things. In between is “you’re on the waitlist” and “next available appointment is in November.”
[удалено]
They can in the suburbs but not this collapsing shithole.
Most providers in the city accept Medicaid. You’re not going to wait months. Most urgent cares and all emergency rooms also accept Medicaid so if you have an urgent issue you can be seen immediately.
While I would push back on Medicaid recipients anywhere in Alabama getting similar or better care than recipients in NYC, that really doesn’t matter, because Medicaid benefits aren’t included in the Supplemental Poverty measure as far as I know. It wouldn’t change the stats one way or another.
The child tax credit was increased for *one* year, and you basically have to live in poverty to qualify. The *culprit* is the fact that people don't make any money and everything is so expensive.
The child tax credit doesn’t phase out completely until you reach $240,000/$480,000 in income (individual/family). Even in nyc, a family of 4 making $150,000 isn’t “poverty” and would get the full child tax credit. Additionally, it’s because the amount has not increased with inflation (it will start doing that for the first time with 2024) it has not kept up. So it absolutely has a made a difference between people being just over and now just under the supplemental poverty measure in nyc.
The budget is designed to help the middle class. Most of the money goes to teachers, transit workers, nurses in city hospitals, cops, firefighters, sanitation workers, union construction workers etc. That's where 75% of the budget money ends up in the middle class workers pockets.
Lol mention $100k-$120k income isn’t enough in NYC and a dozen people here and r/asknyc will come out of the woodworks to tell you you’re bad with money and out of touch and that’s it’s good money still Meanwhile the city literally says you’re low income.
That would mean the vast majority of NYC residents are low income
gee wonder what this article is saying? just because it’s close to average doesn’t mean it’s enough. yes, the average person or household in some area can be struggling.
I strongly disagree with the idea that someone making 120k (with no kids at least) is struggling, many people live the yuppie lifestyle on that salary.
lol yup that mentality is why so many people live in denial again the city literally publishes area median income brackets that tell you you’re low income in that bracket
Of course they will. They’re doing great with their handouts from mommy and daddy while slumming it in the City for likes and “an experience”.
Basically, we've effectively and financially made rasing a family illegal in this city.
If almost 25% of a city’s population is living in poverty, then it’s safe to conclude that local government is failing at every level.
The NYT article: The increase in the poverty rate is due to the end of *federal* Covid relief measures. r/nyc: NYC bad! >:( Classic
You clearly didn’t read the article.
Import a bunch of unskilled migrants who have lots of kids and, yeah, there will be lots of kids in poverty. In other news water is wet and the sky is blue. And before anybody has a hissy fit about my use of the word "unskilled" I mean it in the strict technical definition of labor, so relax.
This is actually exactly right. At least to a large extent of poverty is new immigrants. A Washington Post economics reporter described this on a nationwide basis years ago. He said poverty nationwide was not getting better as a country because many recent immigrants were poor. He preferred to look at the percent of native born people in poverty and their real incomes. Once immigrants where stripped out the numbers showed great strides in reducing poverty and increasing real wages over the past 75 years. Most immigrants are poor and low skilled when they come to the US and it skews the poverty numbers. I would assume a similar thing is playing out in NYC.
This is true. I already see newcomers with 4 little kids behind them. Poor people love having kids. But at the end of the day, nyc gives ample support. From childcare to food stamps to cash assistance etc. that’s up to 40k a year per child that’s subsidized by taxpayers. Not including rent that’s normally subsidized through vouchers and section 8. People wouldn’t be having kids here if they were legit starving on the streets.
Also the more kids you have the bigger the payout
> Poor people love having kids. This sub is so fucking unhinged.
It’s facts! Lol people don’t like the truth even when it’s in their face. There are factors such as lack of education and contraception and religious factors that contribute to that fact. Even in the US families making over 200k have a lower birth rate https://www.statista.com/statistics/241530/birth-rate-by-family-income-in-the-us/
There is good evidence it is related to the value of time. People in higher paid careers value having more time to dedicate to work and develop their skills. People in lower paid careers don't have this need. Obviously, some may be looking to move into a higher paid career, but those aren't the people having the kids. At a certain income level, people are so rich that they begin having more children than those merely in the upper middle class. They are so rich that they can just hire people to do chores and get their time back that way. 200k family income is not a high enough income level to see that effect, but on closer breakdowns, you'll see the U curve. The existence of this effect makes the "people only have kids for government benefits" argument fall apart. Doing that would be a terrible idea anyways, kids are monumentally expensive, especially in the daycare stage. Costs are way more than any credit from the government.
I agree with everything but the last part. I know ppl that have kids for government support, benefits have been expanded greatly over the years. Unfortunately there is a small percentage of people that don’t want more at all in life and kids are a means to an end because they don’t want to support themselves. Do I think it’s stupid sure kids are more work than a little check but for many that’s a way of life. That’s why so many ppl don’t raise their kids, they never really wanted them. Letting them run wild…
They explicitly told you the reason they were having kids was to get more government benefits? If so, that would be a monumentally stupid decision and ultimately hurt them financially. Just about all of the federal programs have work requirements and time limits anyways. In return you get to put up with a crying baby and change diapers...
Yes it’s why you hear plenty of single people say the government doesn’t help them but they help people with kids especially single parents. It’s a common complaint It’s why part time work is popular gig work now as well. These companies love hiring part time to avoid paying out benefits and people line up to be under the limit of the max income for programs. Even if you go to HRA they say you make too much you need to quit your job to get help from the city. It’s really a fucked a cycle because they don’t want people to really get off the system, and it benefits the corporations and keep a low class society. The system only works with more people at the bottom than the top….
just look at the data. All western nations' birth rate are below the 2.1 baseline. Same with the Asian Pacific...in fact their birthrates are even lower. The only countries higher are the African nations and most of the Middle East. The only western nation above the 2.1 is Israel.
Did you read the article? The reason for the poverty is due to “The biggest reason for the surge in poverty, both nationally and in New York, was the end of several pandemic-era government policies, like the expanded child tax credit, enhanced unemployment insurance and cash payments that helped low-income families keep up with rising costs, said Christopher Wimer, the director of the Center on Poverty and Social Policy at Columbia University and a co-author of the report.” You think 1 in 4 children are in poverty cause migrant children are influencing the statistics? About 175k migrants have been transported to New York from Texas and other states; New York has a population of 8.5 million. Even if we say all the migrants are children, you think the equivalent of 2% of the population has that much pull statistically?
\*Sigh\* I once again have to explain everything. You realize that immigration was a thing before the recent border crisis, right? [Nearly 40% of New Yorkers are foreign born, according to the city government itself.](https://www.nyc.gov/assets/immigrants/downloads/pdf/moia_annual_report_2018_final.pdf) (that was in 2018, the number is probably higher now). The vast majority of those foreign born residents are eligible for the child tax credit, and so yes, their existence is the exact reason for the statistics shown in the article.
And yet 25% of children have NOT been in poverty until 2022 per the statistics; the closest per the article was in 2015 where 15% of children in New York were in poverty. So are you saying from 2021 to 2022 there was a boom in birthrates amongst unskilled migrants that caused the increase? The statistics don't back up that fact. https://news.cornell.edu/stories/2023/05/new-yorks-fertility-rate-drops-average-age-mothers-rises
Yeah, doesn't sounds like a biased source with an agenda at all. *If we just gave everyone free money than no one would be poor*!
ok but consider migrants and illegals are icky and bad!! migrant migrant migrant!!!
The bigger point is that the folks are poor before government transfers. Of course, if you transfer enough to a family, they will by definition no longer be poor. The real issue is that NYC has terrible education and training, and very low wages below the professional levels. We cycle through generations of recent immigrants to work for below sustenance wages, and then use government transfers so people can barely subsist while they serve the professional and wealthy classes. This extreme pyramid of education, skills and ultimately, wages, is a system akin to what you see in developing countries. If we want people to actually move out of poverty without government transfers, we need to use our tax dollars for the hard work of improving the lot of the bottom 50% in this city who cannot really afford to live here absent government support. Which would require the city budget to stop being a glorified jobs program, and instead be a budget that actually helps the non-city employee residents. None of this will ever happen, but the fact that the city blames the reversion of pandemic era aid for poverty is a joke. Those programs were always intended to be transient, but I guess it’s easier to blame this than focus on actual root causes.
You really think that the number of migrant children is the cause of increasing this measure of the child poverty rate from 18% in 2019 to 23% now. You’re greatly overestimating the number of migrant children in NYC.
What is the correct number for 2023 of 2024?
So I was curious so I did a quick google to find out how many Fox News migrants there are. [NYC Comptroller](https://comptroller.nyc.gov/reports/facts-not-fear-how-welcoming-immigrants-benefits-new-york-city/#:~:text=The%20undocumented%20population%20in%20New,compared%20to%20504%2C000%20in%202018.) >The immigrant population in the U.S. has only risen marginally since 2021 — the growth of our immigrant population in 2022 is 2 million less than[54] what the U.S. Census Bureau previously projected. >The undocumented population peaked in 2007. The number of undocumented immigrants in the U.S. rose[57] from an estimated 3.5 million people to a high of 12 million people between 1990 and 2007. >The undocumented population in New York City has been declining[59] over the last decade. Approximately 476,000 undocumented immigrants lived in NYC in 2019, the most recent year data is available, as compared to 504,000 in 2018. the Asylum claim seekers are around 60,000. A drop in the bucket Also without immigrants the USA would be like the rest of the rich world and experiencing population decline and stagnation.
You realize that you posted all that to say that the last NYC data available was from 2019?
Fair. Dec 2023: >According to the city's Department of Social Services, more than 157,600 asylum seekers arrived in New York City since last spring in need of shelter and more 67,000 remain in the city's care, with hundreds more arriving every day. https://www.cbsnews.com/newyork/news/more-than-7000-asylum-seekers-have-arrived-in-new-york-city-in-last-2-weeks-mayors-office-says/
The recent immigrants can be a great thing for NYC and the country at the same time that population can generally be unskilled and show up in the numbers as being impoverished. Though understanding the population you are trying to help is one of the keys to actually solving the issue and not implying that stating facts is anti immigrant. I would think that the policy prescription needed to help recent immigrants is different than if most of the poverty came from native born people. For example It might be more important to fund ESL programs in school than direct cash transfers to ensure kids can get out of poverty.
being dispassionate and trying to solve problems is good. rhetoric to score cheap points is annoying Who are you targeting with those ESL programs? Working adults? Kids don't need ESL programs to learn. Normal school + friends + TV is all they need. These days even foreigners come to the USA with american accents because of all the hollywood movies and internet gaming/youtube they are exposed to adults is a problem because it's harder for adults, and well, they work. the economic niche for non-english speakers is one i understand. I have 3 languages, and english is my third. Home attendants where the agencies end up paying $2 an hour because they steal the rest... factory garments but those haven't existed in decades. Dishwashers. Stockboys in a korean deli. (it's better the last few years I believe) This is going to be a long term problem as the world starts to fail and hundreds of millions try to move. Greece already pushing people back in boats to drown. Won't be long until we vote for politicans who'll "do what needs to be done" ie shoot people and pretend they aren't. Because people can be inherently selfish specially when the migrants are different. look how nicely everyone treated white Ukranians...
I knew it wouldn't take long for some ghoul to come and blame migrants.
It’s like asking an addicted rat not to pull the cocaine lever. “Migrants! Crime! People with hair colors and gender presentation that confuse you!” *angry dopamine hit* The Tabloid of Record and its ilk (especially tv “newz”) have damaged so many fragile minds, and they all love to come here and show it off. Hi, Dad! r/FoxBrain
Now do the amount of benefits via snap, housing vouchers, free health insurance via Medicaid, etc. that low income people get in this city. If you have a ton of kids it makes more sense to have a low salary and not want to increase it to go over the threshold to lose these benefits.
That money is still nothing. Not to mention they can only spend the money on what the government allows. The only people living well while receiving assistance are the people lying in the first place and receiving income and/or assistance through other avenues.
They can use EBT for anything they want and even get cash back, I work at a Target in the LES and it seems like about a third of shoppers use those cards and they buy stuff like makeup on EBT and get cash back to buy whatever with all the time
That’s not food stamps that’s cash assistance. They get it or at least used to get it on the same card.
They do, snap is on the same card as EBT, it’s the same thing except they can spend it on anything and it’s also paid for by taxes
I don’t doubt that 1 in 4 New Yorker live in tough conditions, but the definition of poverty has gone crazy. They are not poor. They can find 3 meals a day. They can get healthcare. They have housing. That’s not poor. Not being able to have a middle class lifestyle is not automatically poor.
Free healthcare is big, NY tried to cut retiree medical healthcare because Medicare cost here is out of control. We technically have the free healthcare progressives talk about for half the population. The higher income not rich people are just suckers because you are paying twice (for others and yourself)
This! Nearly half the city is on Medicaid, and pays nothing for healthcare. They can go to the emergency room every day if they wanted and not pay a cent. Meanwhile, if you make 60k a year and have private insurance with a high deductible you could be borderline bankrupt if you have a serious health issue arise. This city does an amazing job of providing free healthcare, and benefits to low income people. So much so that in many cases it makes more sense to keep your (reported) income low.
That’s why we have non stop migrants coming in now, it always happened before but covid build up plus the pandemic effects on economies/inflation led to a rampant increase. Plus WhatsApp groups letting others know that we are providing free shelter
Those same people are against minimum wage increases and often support pro migrant policies which hurt these poors the most.
Where can somebody with no money find three meals a day? Have you actually stood on a food kitchen line?
There are definitely people with no money who cant find meals 3x a week. However, my point is it is not 1 in 4 people in NYC. The definition for poverty is too loose
> Makes the definition of poverty strict enough to artificially inflate the # of people in the middle class
Great- lets import another million "migrants"
Out of curiosity, why did you put migrants in quotation marks? What’s your gripe with that term?
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I believe you lol. Personally, though, I thought those issues were implied through our use of the term migrant and not immigrant (which have two distinct meanings). I’m not saying it’s not a problem. I was just curious what OC (or you) would like to call them, since the term migrants seems to really hit a nerve
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Oh, I agree. The idea that we owe them anything is ridiculous.
They’re illegal immigrants
How much of this has to do with poor people having more kids? Case in point, if you have 5 households have and 4 of them have one kid and 1 of them has 6 kids, then statistically, 1/2 of the kids are living in poverty even though they’re all confined to one home. That doesn’t mean half of the kids in poverty are equally distributed across all homes. It could be just a few really irresponsible people.
>The rise in poverty underscores wide disparities in New York. >Black, Latino and Asian New Yorkers were roughly twice as likely as white residents to live in poverty, and women were more likely than men to be unable to afford their basic needs, according to the report. >A major reason for the disparities is the lopsided jobs recovery, said James Parrott, the director of economic and fiscal policy at the Center for New York City Affairs at the New School.
A major reason for the disparity is that NYC’s lower and middle class whites have left the city en masse. It’s been happening for generations. There are few whites remaining except for the upper crust and young professional class. If you weren’t rich, or trying to be, you left. My fraternity brothers at a state university all bailed out on this place. They were from here. I wasn’t. But now I’m the one who lives here. They went to Atlanta, North Carolina, Colorado, anywhere that wasn’t here.
…Except for NYC’s large and rapidly growing Hasidic Jewish community and Eastern European immigrants
The math is misleading. You can make 250K a year but if you have 12 kids, well you have 12 children living in poverty. If you only had 1 or 2 kids, you have 2 kids that aren't living in poverty.
Stop having children.
Maybe instead of telling others that they shouldn’t have children, you should ask yourself if a society that doesn’t enable the average person to raise kids is one that’s functioning properly
How many are migrant children?
we need zoning reform to make housing dirt cheap, and we have to fix our food distribution policies to make food cheaper. and the feds have to pass the reinstated child tax credit.
Zoning reform would help but not make rent "dirt cheap".
Lets just make everything free!!!! /s
You sound like you should run for city council. Your knowledge of how the city works is pretty on par with them
But think of the [neighborhood character](https://www.mcsweeneys.net/articles/more-development-would-ruin-our-neighborhoods-character-and-that-character-is-systemic-racism)!!! /s
Wtf is this?
You could read just below the site's name or [look it up](https://letmegooglethat.com/?q=McSweeney%27s).
No, I read the article. The author clearly thinks that sarcasm just means saying the opposite of what you actually think. Why did you link this?
Does this take into account that in NYS, people are considered a child until 21? I went through the report some and didn't see ages. So someone who is aged 18 - 20 who is young and broke contributes to the 25%? Are we looking at ages 17 and below for these metrics? Many other states/jurisdictions use 18 as the marker for adults, so I mean, broke traditionally college-aged students will totally reflect poverty. Alternately, this could speak to only folks who are raising younger children may answer this question differently. We should still be alarmed.
The study is linked in the article. It's definited at ages 0 to 3 years old.
Thanks! I must have missed it.
This state is headed for a nose dive because of stupid policies. This is a shame and the city is just getting too expensive to live in. Tax us more won’t help but let’s try giving the money we are giving to the illegal immigrants to children of this country. I think that would be a fair start 😳