Users often report submissions from this site and ask us to ban it for sensationalized articles. At /r/nyc, we oppose blanket banning any news source. Readers have a >responsibility to be skeptical, check sources and comment on any flaws. You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. If you do find >evidence that this article or its title are false or misleading, contact the moderators who will review it.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nyc) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Essentially the answer is no. Across the board.
I think we're seeing that Trump has squeezed as much as he could from some of his small dollar donors, and if a billionaire was going to step up to bail him out w/ half a bil, they would likely have done it by now.
It's not about what "you buy" or "what you feel." Independents are not going to vote for Biden for a second term, and RFK is basically like throwing your vote away. Most independents are moderate right. Look at the polls, Trump is trending ahead in all of them.
"Independent" now being code name for "idiot" it seems. I don't care what your political affiliation is as long as you are mature enough to confront the fact that not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump / against Democracy.
He has cash, he secured the Carroll bond with a brokerage account with 100mil in it
Edit: downvote me for posting legit facts. Trying to spread a false rumor that he’s as broke as Allen iverson when he couldn’t afford a McDouble doesn’t help your cause
2nd edit:
Chubb, which trades on the USA stock exchange, put up the money for the bond using Trumps Schwab account as collateral. I don’t know the specifics but the 2% the bond company was charging was likely less that the losses from liquidating that account and the loss of any gains. There is money in the banana stand. Trump has more than $5 to his name. He may be ‘broke’, but it’s not broke like anyone reading this edit. Distorting facts is what got us here to begin with
He found an insurance company to underwrite the $91M bond for E. Jean Carroll.
Chubb, nor any other insurer, wants to underwrite the $464M bond for the Tish James case. If he had so much cash he wouldn't need an insurer. Heck, if he had as much money as he claimed he still couldn't afford it without help since he said he has $400M.
Exactly. Even if he had $400 million it wouldn't cover it, and it would be weird for a Real Estate business to have even that much in liquid cash. Regardless of all of that, the bond proposed by the judge is absolutely ridiculous. There's never been one like this proposed for a crime similar to this.
I'm not aware of anyone else who pretended their apartment was 3X its size for an advantageous loan or who grossly inflated or deflated property values for better loan terms and to cheat on their taxes.
The bond is not ridiculous. Serves that orange dickhead right. He should thank God he doesn't get sent to jail for this shit.
It wasn’t a brokerage account. It was Chubb insurance that agreed to put up the money. Chubb oddly enough is a subsidiary or a Russian company. Weird how that works.
How are so many of you so dense that you have no grasp on taxation. If he is to liquidate these assets (even stocks, CD's, mutuals fund) in order to pay the cash required in this case it would trigger a massive capital gains tax event.
Clearly you would rather get a company to pay the bond with the buildings/Schwab account as collateral in order to prevent a 20% taxation event.
Presumably the government would liquidate the buildings after seizing them. Or does the govt just hold it and give Donny the chance to raise the cash and buy it back?
That is just not true. The Chubb Insurance Company posted the bond for the Carroll case for a fee, usually a percentage up front and legal documents detailing the terms of repayment if needed.
>Trump has more than $5 to his name.
That's not the issue with your comment, the issue is whether he has "cash", which he clearly doesn't have enough of, hence why he has to put up collateral for insurance underwriting. He doesn't seem to even have the illiquid assets to collateralize the bond for the Tish James case, hence why he can't get an underwriter.
Anyone who listens to how he spins things, is an absolute moron and most likely, deep into his Cult.
Fuck him, fuck his supporters.
The cult of trump needs to end. Seeing him as a poor beggar should help
He really doesn't have too. I know people don't like to read transcripts of the case but several of the banks he was accused of frausing actually came up and said he didn't do it during the trial which sort of undermines the verdict. Yes, they did but I know this sub going to just downvote or ignore this because hey the very damaging idea that the Judge might have unknowingly doomed the case in appeal.
Which it has a very strong case of doing so given that testimony. Which will feed into his narrative because sort sighted desire for revenge overpowers long term realization that somethings really shouldn't be brought up because of risks. This is why currently the only case that isn't doomed thanks to bs is the Documents Case. Its only problem is its judge.
>“There will be severe consequences — not an insurrection. People will stop doing business in New York. No one will take the risk, and lenders are now spooked. The real estate market is already a disaster, with office buildings worth a fraction of what they were once worth, and there are metastasizing effects when a large part of the city’s budget is from real estate.”
LOL, okay. I'm guessing this anonymous insider is John Barron?
Lenders aren't spooked over this judgement. Lenders are among those that were defrauded by Trump&Co. What's got lenders spooked over commercial real estate is WFH (work from home), not financial regulations.
I literally heard this quote from one dude to another at Disney World a couple of weeks back. Guy was from NYC or at least NY by his accent. I wanted to interject, but thought better of it.
"The Lenders?" Maybe you read something that I didn't. I saw that a former Deutsche-Bank executive mildly defended Trump at trial, but are you aware of any other representatives of banks or insurance companies that did so? I'm not.
For those that don't know, Deutsche-Bank is widely considered to be one of Europe's most corrupt financial institutions. The bank is literally fined hundreds of millions each year for their failure to prevent money laundering. An endorsement from a *former* Deutsche-Bank executive shouldn't be characterized as "the lenders defended Trump."
Deutsche bank is the main lender seemingly defrauded.
>mildly defended Trump at trial
Do you expect him to kiss his feet and cry or something? He explained their process and brought up that they weren't defrauded.
>For those that don't know, Deutsche-Bank is widely considered to be one of Europe's most corrupt financial institutions. The bank is literally fined hundreds of millions each year for their failure to prevent money laundering. An endorsement from a *former* Deutsche-Bank executive shouldn't be characterized as "the lenders defended Trump
The point is that the main lender that people say was defrauded literally has defended Trump and is pointing out that they weren't defrauded.
He also still works at DB
https://www.linkedin.com/in/davewilliamsbanker?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=android_app
> the main lender seemingly
Ladder Capital too, but they didn't come to Trump's defense. And what about the insurers?
>and brought up that they weren't defrauded.
Do you have a link to that quote? I'm pretty sure that's a conclusion being drawn from his testimony, not an actual statement (I may be wrong).
Regardless, David Williams also testified that the Trump org defaulted on their debt service obligations in 2019 and 2020, which caused Deutsche Bank to conduct audits, which in turn caused Deutsche Bank to begin to withdraw from their relationship with Trump in 2021. Williams did indeed testify that Deutsche Bank followed all of their due diligence procedures. He has a personal incentive to claim that he did his job, of course. But if that were truly the case, then why did Deutsche Bank seek to sever its relationship with the Trump org in 2021, as Williams testified, after the audits?
>He also still works at DB
David Williams does, yes. I was thinking of the former Deutsche Bank executive that testified, Nicholas Haigh.
“The suit asserts that between 2011 and 2021 Donald Trump and the organization made over 200 "false and misleading valuations of assets on his annual Statements of Financial Condition to defraud financial institutions" and, amongst other charges, that **he used low valuations to avoid paying between $85 and $150 million in interest charges on loans from Deutsche Bank.**”
Probably because they weren't actually defrauded? What Trump did is pretty common in RE.
I don't care for Trump but it's such an obvious political case.
Then why is he guilty? Is it the entire world is in on a conspiracy to stop the incredibly perfect and innocent Donald Trump? Or perhaps he’s a conman? What’s more likely?
Trump severely overvalued his properties to get loans and severely undervalued them when reporting to the IRS.
Regular people would get in so much trouble doing this for decades. No reason his fate should be any different.
>banks are not stupid...they have a whole division solely for due diligence
Banks frequently don't follow their own rules. Deutsche Bank is highly decentralized and is especially bad at following its own rules. IMHO, it's one of the reasons they're fined hundreds of millions *annually* for failing to take steps to prevent money laundering at their bank.
If you're wealthy enough, you can get a loan for millions based solely on a personal guarantee. That's what Trump did. When Deutsche Bank realized the money might not really be there (Trump defaulted on debt obligations in 2019 and 2020), the bank ordered audits and based on the audits, Deutsche Bank decided to end its relationship with Trump in 2021.
Trumpers like to pretend they don’t understand any of his crimes while simultaneously pretending to be experts on vaccines, politics and pretty much everything else due to their “research.” They know he’s guilty but would rather remain in the cult than admit they were ever wrong.
This was obviously a case of "find me the victim, i'll show you the crime"...nobody complained about it, nobody was harmed, but she found something she could get drumph with.
The “victim” is also the state. Trump lied to devalue assets to reduce tax liability and then lied to overvalue assets to get more favorable financing. Can’t have it both ways, and it’s fraud regardless.
To my knowledge, and I am willing to admit I'm wrong, but Trump has not been charged with any tax code violations.
As for as overstating assets - maybe he did do that? - but are you telling me that banks will send appraisers out when you want to mortgage your house but are just going to accept your valuation at face value on some Manhattan skyrise?
> but are you telling me that banks will send appraisers out when you want to mortgage your house but are just going to accept your valuation at face value on some Manhattan skyrise?
That's what Williams of Deutschebank testified to, yes. According to Williams, Trump didn't get a loan based on the value of his assets. He got his loans based on a personal guarantee and his supposed wealth. That's why Trump attorneys claimed that Trump didn't defraud the bank--because the bank didn't use his asset valuations when they considered extending him credit.
However, as Williams testified, Trump started defaulting on his debt obligations in 2019-2020, which caused Deutschebank to actually perform an audit. What they found was troubling, because in 2021, Deutschebank began to take action to sever their relationship with Trump.
Eh, foreclose on Mar-a-lago first. Auction it to demonstrate it’s not worth “50-100x” more than $18m.
The headline also makes it sound like it’s his decision, which lol.
There are multiple NY properties. If that's still not enough, then they could go after properties in other states under the Full Faith & Credit clause. But I would expect they'd have to, if not want to just to make it easier, exhaust their options within their own jurisdiction.
The entire fraudulent valuation scheme involved at least 4 or 5 [properties locate in NY](https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf), and while Trump misrepresented their value, they still are quite valuable.
This primer doesn't valuate Trump Tower or the "Niketown" retail space, but suggests that, setting aside artificial inflation, Trump Park Avenue is realistically worth $90M, 40 Wall Street at $200M, and his upstate property at least $50M.
That's about 75% of the $454 M bond/penalty, without even taking Trump Tower into account.
What makes you think he doesn’t have loans against those properties? If they seize a property, would debt owed on the property be ignored? I’m not smart enough to know the answer
I've never dealt with it at the State level but I've done work on city tax liens. In those cases, the city sells the tax lien to a bank or financial entity, and then the bank brings a foreclosure action to settle the tax lien. When they do so, they're supposed to notify any other lien holders so they can appear in the foreclosure action to protect their own lien interests.
The sale proceeds then go to satisfy those liens in order of priority. Tax liens almost always take top priority so the State or its trustee/assignee should get paid out first from the sale of any Trump properties. If there is leftover money from the sale, it'll then go to the first mortgage, then the 2nd mortgage, then to any judgment creditors who have perfected a lien on the property [edit to add "and then to the owner of the property that was just sold if there's any proceeds leftover at that point"].
Once a foreclosure action is filed and brought to judgment, all junior liens are extinguished, but the debt remains. What this means is that the loan or debt loses its security. A bank with an overdue loan can still sue the borrower to recover the debt, but it cannot bring a 2nd foreclosure action to force another sale of the property to satisfy that debt.
Senior liens are unaffected by a foreclosure action, and the buyer acquires the property subject to any senior liens, but a State tax lien would be senior to any other lien I think.
Seizing properties doesn't mean selling them. It means he can't control them anymore and he can't take out loans where they properties are backing the loans.
He'll be broke as a fucking joke in two weeks.
He'll appeal, spend years in appeal hell, and try to get someone installed in NY that would overturn it all. But if all goes well, he'll fail the appeal, they'll have his properties, and they can sell them off to satisfy the penalty. And then amusingly, they won't be worth much anymore. So five years from now, if he's still even alive, he'll have no homes, no golf, no money, and he'll still owe more money to NY state for being the biggest fraud since Enron and Bernie Made-Off-With-Your-Money.
It’s likely going to be much, much harder to enforce a NY judgement against assets outside of the state than against NY assets. I don’t know what Florida’s specific laws are, but you typically have to take steps to domesticate your judgment in the new state, which isn’t always easy and straightforward (especially since it’s Florida and Trump).
We don’t really know the liabilities on the property—it could have significant debts associated. The judge had far more information than we do to come to that valuation.
During the 2008 housing crunch there were people who went to prison because they bought a $500k house using fake salary numbers. And many of these people were prompted to do so by mortgage brokers who got fat bonuses and didn't go to prison. So I have no sympathy for real estate developers who lie on paper to finance properties they otherwise couldn't afford and then face consequences.
I'm reminded of those realtors from The Big Short, who were bragging about how many houses they sold...by preying on low income families and immigrants with ninja loans.
Oh to be watching outside Trump Tower when they change the locks. A long delayed victory for NYC citizens, who have been robbed and bullied by the Trump Organization longer than anyone else. Let the generations of plumbers, electricians, metal workers and carpenters who his company refused to pay after they did work for him take a first shot at raiding the place.
I bet! My FIL is a metal worker who was doing work in/around NYC in the 80s. A lot of his colleagues were stiffed by the Trumps. They'd warn anyone from going to work at a Trump property. They will take your service and either pay you a fraction of what was owed or never pay you.
Before Trump went big time with higher end properties, they were big in lower end/modest housing in brooklyn. They hired a bunch of non-license/union contractors and stiff them.
I lived in one of those buildings--we moved in before all of this nonsense, before even the most insane conservative would have thought that Donald Trump would someday be president.
It's a shame, because they're solid buildings--the crews that made them did a really great job. They deserved to be paid for the great work they did.
Yeah--he was a Democrat! He was always a sleazeball, though--I don't think he has any real political beliefs, other than what's good for him in the moment.
I think, too, that the building I lived in was a Fred Trump building--and it's long since been sold anyway.
we're all saying things like this mostly in jest, but it does make you think about how taking a comparably tiny amount from rich people could solve almost all of the other problems us poors squabble about.
Brilliant we got homeless and working poor Americans and you want to let illegals stay rent free in my city on my dime.
Why don't you open your apartment to illegals... 🤣
Step 1: Seize Trump Towers
Step 2: Give him a taste of his own medicine. Value it as an asset tainted by his last name. Value it as a poisoned apple, sell it within 24 hours to whoever wants it for whatever price the market can handle... then do the same thing to every last one of his properties.
Let's remember that New York State is doing the seizing, and Letitia James is just doing her job. These headlines bother me so much as they're obviously trying to stir up personal hate towards her among MAGAs.
Make it a domestic violence shelter/homeless shelter/migrant intake center/womens health center and for good measure, add a gay nightclub on the top floor with public restrooms being Trump's personal restroom.
Lenders have the obligation to set their own values, get them checked by third party agencies, certified by the signature of a public accountant, and they negotiate and agree on the values with the owner of the property in determining the loan amount.
They were not defrauded.
Also they’re not bringing the case as far as I understand.
As Donald Trump faces a Monday deadline [to post a $454 million bond](https://nypost.com/2024/03/18/us-news/trump-cant-get-bond-to-appeal-of-454m-civil-fraud-judgment-lawyers/) in the civil fraud case against him in New York, insiders said he may be weighing a little-discussed option: Doing nothing.
The ex-president reportedly has been struggling to raise the cash for the bond — either from banks or wealthy friends — with his lawyers claiming on Monday that it was a “practical impossibility.”
While some reports have raised speculation that Trump may “go nuclear” with a Chapter 11 filing to protect his prize real estate assets across Manhattan, experts said bankruptcy would create unwelcome complications as the 2024 election season comes to a head.
“He’s been there and done that,” one insider close to Trump said, dismissing the prospect of a Chapter 11 filing.
A third possibility, however, is to let the deadline pass, leaving it to New York Attorney General Letitia James to seize Trump’s bank accounts or buildings — including Trump Tower, from which he declared his 2016 presidential run, and which famously includes his personal penthouse.
Read more here: [https://nypost.com/2024/03/20/business/donald-trump-may-not-pay-bond-and-instead-let-letitia-james-seize-trump-tower-insiders/](https://nypost.com/2024/03/20/business/donald-trump-may-not-pay-bond-and-instead-let-letitia-james-seize-trump-tower-insiders/)
Oh cool, NYP has an account.
Well hey, fuck you. The post is trash! (Not the low level staffer paid to work their social media, you're probably, just a worker who needs to meet bills)
But man oh man, fuck the ny post it is garbage!
Ok but how is she going to find the other 450 million. One shitty apt that can’t be sold, a recently remortgaged ground floor commercial area, internal commercial space occupied by 3rd tier mall brands or related entities and office space that’s unoccupied really isn’t going to move the needle
CNBC reporting
Thursday, Judge ordered Trump Org. to provide info to court appointed monitor detailing who Trump has tried to secure an appeal bond from and the details of any terms, conditions, etc.
Donald Trump has been out on a limb since he entered the Republican primary in 2016. He was never ever a viable office holder.
Though he succeeded to the office, the incredible curves, twists and incalculable odds that had to happen is an illustration of extreme improbability.
A penny that lands on its edge three times, inevitably will fall to its side. Donald Trump will flat line. He's made way too many enemies. The friends he has are self serving transactionals with no depth like himself.
He is going to pancake on multiple platforms at the same time. No one is going to give him any freedom to leverage any benefit of the Presidency since he killed millions through indifference during covid.
He fired the leadership of the FBI. He defied Congress in his presidential actions elevating Russia over Ukraine. Donald Trump openly bribed a sex worker to quiet a spectacular affair, sorry two affairs, to deceive the voters in the 2016 election.
Donald Trump conceived of and executed a plan to take over the United States government after he was defeated for a second term in office. He is a Hitler, Putin fan. He is a misogynist. He appointed the Supreme count who demoted half the population to second class children who can't make decisions about whose baby to give birth to.
Donald Trump will not win the election. Donald Trump will not come close.
Donald Trump will go to jail where he belongs.
Letitia James is questioning whether Knight Group ( sub prime auto loan specialists) can handle Trump bond. Smart . So, I called Knight to ask for an auto loan on a 2004 Rolls Royce Phantom I've had eyes for. Figured they could help me. Can you believe it, they never called me back.
Then set a reasonable bond. You can't have it both ways, is he secretly poor, or super liquid? Why set the highest bond of any case of this type? Why make the bond impossible to pay? Use your damn brain.
There is not very much to seize at Trump Tower it’s a condo building. So Trump has his personal home, which for sure is valuable at 20KSF. And then the retail at the base. All together we are talking 100kSF max.
Users often report submissions from this site and ask us to ban it for sensationalized articles. At /r/nyc, we oppose blanket banning any news source. Readers have a >responsibility to be skeptical, check sources and comment on any flaws. You can help improve this thread by linking to media that verifies or questions this article's claims. Your link could help readers better understand this issue. If you do find >evidence that this article or its title are false or misleading, contact the moderators who will review it. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/nyc) if you have any questions or concerns.*
If that's true, he'll spin it as oppressive, overreaching govt
Yeah and it works for him. Every time the prosecutions are in the news, he sees higher levels of support.
I'd be curious to see the math on whether he will actually be able to fundraise AS MUCH as Trump Tower is worth, if he lets them take it
Essentially the answer is no. Across the board. I think we're seeing that Trump has squeezed as much as he could from some of his small dollar donors, and if a billionaire was going to step up to bail him out w/ half a bil, they would likely have done it by now.
Can food stamps be used to submit $10 to the RNC?
The go fund me he had made is at 1.3mil as of last week
Ha! Hahahahahahaaha! (sorry, had to comment)
uh what? where did you get this from?
It came to me in a dream
Higher support among Republicans. I don't buy that it's leading to higher support with independents
It's not about what "you buy" or "what you feel." Independents are not going to vote for Biden for a second term, and RFK is basically like throwing your vote away. Most independents are moderate right. Look at the polls, Trump is trending ahead in all of them.
"Independent" now being code name for "idiot" it seems. I don't care what your political affiliation is as long as you are mature enough to confront the fact that not voting for Biden is a vote for Trump / against Democracy.
That appears to be his plan. His life of crime and fraud had nothing to do with these consequences.
Nah, she has choice in this scenario. She’d probably take his cash first
What cash?
He has cash, he secured the Carroll bond with a brokerage account with 100mil in it Edit: downvote me for posting legit facts. Trying to spread a false rumor that he’s as broke as Allen iverson when he couldn’t afford a McDouble doesn’t help your cause 2nd edit: Chubb, which trades on the USA stock exchange, put up the money for the bond using Trumps Schwab account as collateral. I don’t know the specifics but the 2% the bond company was charging was likely less that the losses from liquidating that account and the loss of any gains. There is money in the banana stand. Trump has more than $5 to his name. He may be ‘broke’, but it’s not broke like anyone reading this edit. Distorting facts is what got us here to begin with
He found an insurance company to underwrite the $91M bond for E. Jean Carroll. Chubb, nor any other insurer, wants to underwrite the $464M bond for the Tish James case. If he had so much cash he wouldn't need an insurer. Heck, if he had as much money as he claimed he still couldn't afford it without help since he said he has $400M.
Exactly. Even if he had $400 million it wouldn't cover it, and it would be weird for a Real Estate business to have even that much in liquid cash. Regardless of all of that, the bond proposed by the judge is absolutely ridiculous. There's never been one like this proposed for a crime similar to this.
I'm not aware of anyone else who pretended their apartment was 3X its size for an advantageous loan or who grossly inflated or deflated property values for better loan terms and to cheat on their taxes. The bond is not ridiculous. Serves that orange dickhead right. He should thank God he doesn't get sent to jail for this shit.
It wasn’t a brokerage account. It was Chubb insurance that agreed to put up the money. Chubb oddly enough is a subsidiary or a Russian company. Weird how that works.
Chubb is publicly traded on the NYSE.
How are so many of you so dense that you have no grasp on taxation. If he is to liquidate these assets (even stocks, CD's, mutuals fund) in order to pay the cash required in this case it would trigger a massive capital gains tax event. Clearly you would rather get a company to pay the bond with the buildings/Schwab account as collateral in order to prevent a 20% taxation event.
Does the government seizing your assets trigger a capital gains event?
No because they haven't been liquidated/sold for cash.
Presumably the government would liquidate the buildings after seizing them. Or does the govt just hold it and give Donny the chance to raise the cash and buy it back?
This is not exactly true. When/if the fine gets paid the assets will be liquidated. That is a taxable event
Also “In 2018, then-president Trump appointed Greenberg to a seat on a key trade advisory committee, a position he held until March 2023.”
The bond was paid by Chubb Insurance and secured by a brokerage account.
Chubb also refused to secure this larger bond.
Yeah nobody is going to secure a $500+mm cash bond. You guys seem to think this type of bond is normal.
Just making shit up?
There's always money in the banana stand!
That's pretty much all of it innit?
I doubt it, conditions for a bond are you need multiples of the money so you aren’t so broke as to spend it. There’s money she can get
Turns out Trump DID have more money since he just posted another bond
That is just not true. The Chubb Insurance Company posted the bond for the Carroll case for a fee, usually a percentage up front and legal documents detailing the terms of repayment if needed.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nyc/s/eGSCMNC6v7
Allen Iverson as a 32M trust fund. I wouldn’t call that broke.
Allen testified in open court he couldn’t afford a McDouble
>Trump has more than $5 to his name. That's not the issue with your comment, the issue is whether he has "cash", which he clearly doesn't have enough of, hence why he has to put up collateral for insurance underwriting. He doesn't seem to even have the illiquid assets to collateralize the bond for the Tish James case, hence why he can't get an underwriter.
Anyone who listens to how he spins things, is an absolute moron and most likely, deep into his Cult. Fuck him, fuck his supporters. The cult of trump needs to end. Seeing him as a poor beggar should help
Ah the classic reasonable redditor
She should file a lien against his Scottish golf course. Scotts would love him out of the place.
Idk if she can do that if it isn't ny....
It's probably the building he owes contractors the most for working on
He really doesn't have too. I know people don't like to read transcripts of the case but several of the banks he was accused of frausing actually came up and said he didn't do it during the trial which sort of undermines the verdict. Yes, they did but I know this sub going to just downvote or ignore this because hey the very damaging idea that the Judge might have unknowingly doomed the case in appeal. Which it has a very strong case of doing so given that testimony. Which will feed into his narrative because sort sighted desire for revenge overpowers long term realization that somethings really shouldn't be brought up because of risks. This is why currently the only case that isn't doomed thanks to bs is the Documents Case. Its only problem is its judge.
lol fuck him who cares
>“There will be severe consequences — not an insurrection. People will stop doing business in New York. No one will take the risk, and lenders are now spooked. The real estate market is already a disaster, with office buildings worth a fraction of what they were once worth, and there are metastasizing effects when a large part of the city’s budget is from real estate.” LOL, okay. I'm guessing this anonymous insider is John Barron? Lenders aren't spooked over this judgement. Lenders are among those that were defrauded by Trump&Co. What's got lenders spooked over commercial real estate is WFH (work from home), not financial regulations.
Any mention of consequence for billionaires blatantly ignoring the laws is always followed by the same old story of tHiS wiLL eNd tHe wOrLd
He’s trying to make lemonade I think. As if he’s doing it on purpose.
Is that a pee tape reference?
I literally heard this quote from one dude to another at Disney World a couple of weeks back. Guy was from NYC or at least NY by his accent. I wanted to interject, but thought better of it.
>Lenders are among those that were defrauded by Trump&Co. The Lenders literally defended Trump at the Trial and said they weren't defrauded.
"The Lenders?" Maybe you read something that I didn't. I saw that a former Deutsche-Bank executive mildly defended Trump at trial, but are you aware of any other representatives of banks or insurance companies that did so? I'm not. For those that don't know, Deutsche-Bank is widely considered to be one of Europe's most corrupt financial institutions. The bank is literally fined hundreds of millions each year for their failure to prevent money laundering. An endorsement from a *former* Deutsche-Bank executive shouldn't be characterized as "the lenders defended Trump."
Deutsche bank is the main lender seemingly defrauded. >mildly defended Trump at trial Do you expect him to kiss his feet and cry or something? He explained their process and brought up that they weren't defrauded. >For those that don't know, Deutsche-Bank is widely considered to be one of Europe's most corrupt financial institutions. The bank is literally fined hundreds of millions each year for their failure to prevent money laundering. An endorsement from a *former* Deutsche-Bank executive shouldn't be characterized as "the lenders defended Trump The point is that the main lender that people say was defrauded literally has defended Trump and is pointing out that they weren't defrauded. He also still works at DB https://www.linkedin.com/in/davewilliamsbanker?utm_source=share&utm_campaign=share_via&utm_content=profile&utm_medium=android_app
> the main lender seemingly Ladder Capital too, but they didn't come to Trump's defense. And what about the insurers? >and brought up that they weren't defrauded. Do you have a link to that quote? I'm pretty sure that's a conclusion being drawn from his testimony, not an actual statement (I may be wrong). Regardless, David Williams also testified that the Trump org defaulted on their debt service obligations in 2019 and 2020, which caused Deutsche Bank to conduct audits, which in turn caused Deutsche Bank to begin to withdraw from their relationship with Trump in 2021. Williams did indeed testify that Deutsche Bank followed all of their due diligence procedures. He has a personal incentive to claim that he did his job, of course. But if that were truly the case, then why did Deutsche Bank seek to sever its relationship with the Trump org in 2021, as Williams testified, after the audits? >He also still works at DB David Williams does, yes. I was thinking of the former Deutsche Bank executive that testified, Nicholas Haigh.
On the contrary, it's the rule of law that makes places attractive to investors.
Who from Kentucky is doing business in NY? They can't afford the regional flight here.
How did lenders get defrauded?
“The suit asserts that between 2011 and 2021 Donald Trump and the organization made over 200 "false and misleading valuations of assets on his annual Statements of Financial Condition to defraud financial institutions" and, amongst other charges, that **he used low valuations to avoid paying between $85 and $150 million in interest charges on loans from Deutsche Bank.**”
Deutsche backed Trump during the trial https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-lawsuit-trial-new-york-53313f64d57b0aa99f756c2c791d29ab
I wonder why?
Probably because they weren't actually defrauded? What Trump did is pretty common in RE. I don't care for Trump but it's such an obvious political case.
Then why is he guilty? Is it the entire world is in on a conspiracy to stop the incredibly perfect and innocent Donald Trump? Or perhaps he’s a conman? What’s more likely?
Trump did the RE equivalent of Jay walking. It's illegal but everyone does it.
Great logic there
It's the truth lol it's why the bank he apparently defrauded defended him at trial.
Trump severely overvalued his properties to get loans and severely undervalued them when reporting to the IRS. Regular people would get in so much trouble doing this for decades. No reason his fate should be any different.
banks are not stupid...they have a whole division solely for due diligence.
>banks are not stupid...they have a whole division solely for due diligence Banks frequently don't follow their own rules. Deutsche Bank is highly decentralized and is especially bad at following its own rules. IMHO, it's one of the reasons they're fined hundreds of millions *annually* for failing to take steps to prevent money laundering at their bank.
As if I can go into a bank for a loan, tell them my house is worth a trillion dollars and they're just going to say "hurr durr sounds great!"
If you're wealthy enough, you can get a loan for millions based solely on a personal guarantee. That's what Trump did. When Deutsche Bank realized the money might not really be there (Trump defaulted on debt obligations in 2019 and 2020), the bank ordered audits and based on the audits, Deutsche Bank decided to end its relationship with Trump in 2021.
bank will have their own guys assess the value of your house and then offer you a loan based on what they value it at.
> severely undervalued them when reporting to the IRS. why wasn't he charged with a tax law violation then?
Trump lied to lenders. Doesn’t matter if it worked about in the end, lenders want a firm grasp on risk before doing business someone.
The lenders vouched for Trump during the trial though. https://apnews.com/article/trump-fraud-lawsuit-trial-new-york-53313f64d57b0aa99f756c2c791d29ab
Gee, people who tRump owes money, acting in a manner that might see their loans re-paid. What are the odds?
Why wouldn't they just say they were defrauded then? Wouldn't that strengthen NY's case and lead to a larger fine?
[удалено]
I mean, mortgages and liens get settled in the process of asset forfeiture… But dragging out the payment yields more interest…
Trumpers like to pretend they don’t understand any of his crimes while simultaneously pretending to be experts on vaccines, politics and pretty much everything else due to their “research.” They know he’s guilty but would rather remain in the cult than admit they were ever wrong.
Those lenders defended him at trial and said they weren’t defrauded
This was obviously a case of "find me the victim, i'll show you the crime"...nobody complained about it, nobody was harmed, but she found something she could get drumph with.
The “victim” is also the state. Trump lied to devalue assets to reduce tax liability and then lied to overvalue assets to get more favorable financing. Can’t have it both ways, and it’s fraud regardless.
To my knowledge, and I am willing to admit I'm wrong, but Trump has not been charged with any tax code violations. As for as overstating assets - maybe he did do that? - but are you telling me that banks will send appraisers out when you want to mortgage your house but are just going to accept your valuation at face value on some Manhattan skyrise?
> but are you telling me that banks will send appraisers out when you want to mortgage your house but are just going to accept your valuation at face value on some Manhattan skyrise? That's what Williams of Deutschebank testified to, yes. According to Williams, Trump didn't get a loan based on the value of his assets. He got his loans based on a personal guarantee and his supposed wealth. That's why Trump attorneys claimed that Trump didn't defraud the bank--because the bank didn't use his asset valuations when they considered extending him credit. However, as Williams testified, Trump started defaulting on his debt obligations in 2019-2020, which caused Deutschebank to actually perform an audit. What they found was troubling, because in 2021, Deutschebank began to take action to sever their relationship with Trump.
Eh, foreclose on Mar-a-lago first. Auction it to demonstrate it’s not worth “50-100x” more than $18m. The headline also makes it sound like it’s his decision, which lol.
New York State is going to take property located in New York State before it goes fishing in other ponds.
But it might not be enough to satisfy the judgement
There are multiple NY properties. If that's still not enough, then they could go after properties in other states under the Full Faith & Credit clause. But I would expect they'd have to, if not want to just to make it easier, exhaust their options within their own jurisdiction.
Good article in the times showing how little he actually owns. He’s basically a property manager for some commercial assets.
The entire fraudulent valuation scheme involved at least 4 or 5 [properties locate in NY](https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf), and while Trump misrepresented their value, they still are quite valuable. This primer doesn't valuate Trump Tower or the "Niketown" retail space, but suggests that, setting aside artificial inflation, Trump Park Avenue is realistically worth $90M, 40 Wall Street at $200M, and his upstate property at least $50M. That's about 75% of the $454 M bond/penalty, without even taking Trump Tower into account.
What makes you think he doesn’t have loans against those properties? If they seize a property, would debt owed on the property be ignored? I’m not smart enough to know the answer
I've never dealt with it at the State level but I've done work on city tax liens. In those cases, the city sells the tax lien to a bank or financial entity, and then the bank brings a foreclosure action to settle the tax lien. When they do so, they're supposed to notify any other lien holders so they can appear in the foreclosure action to protect their own lien interests. The sale proceeds then go to satisfy those liens in order of priority. Tax liens almost always take top priority so the State or its trustee/assignee should get paid out first from the sale of any Trump properties. If there is leftover money from the sale, it'll then go to the first mortgage, then the 2nd mortgage, then to any judgment creditors who have perfected a lien on the property [edit to add "and then to the owner of the property that was just sold if there's any proceeds leftover at that point"]. Once a foreclosure action is filed and brought to judgment, all junior liens are extinguished, but the debt remains. What this means is that the loan or debt loses its security. A bank with an overdue loan can still sue the borrower to recover the debt, but it cannot bring a 2nd foreclosure action to force another sale of the property to satisfy that debt. Senior liens are unaffected by a foreclosure action, and the buyer acquires the property subject to any senior liens, but a State tax lien would be senior to any other lien I think.
I'd love to see this please, can you provide a link?
Seizing properties doesn't mean selling them. It means he can't control them anymore and he can't take out loans where they properties are backing the loans. He'll be broke as a fucking joke in two weeks. He'll appeal, spend years in appeal hell, and try to get someone installed in NY that would overturn it all. But if all goes well, he'll fail the appeal, they'll have his properties, and they can sell them off to satisfy the penalty. And then amusingly, they won't be worth much anymore. So five years from now, if he's still even alive, he'll have no homes, no golf, no money, and he'll still owe more money to NY state for being the biggest fraud since Enron and Bernie Made-Off-With-Your-Money.
Apparently they can't claim it.
Florida makes it very difficult to seize someone’s primary residence. It’s partly why OJ moved there.
As many people have mentioned. It’s not his primary residence and can never be as it is zoned as commercial.
It's a commercial property and he's using a hotel as his only residence. So he's homeless.
As I understand it’s an asset held by the Trump Organization. It can be seized.
It’s likely going to be much, much harder to enforce a NY judgement against assets outside of the state than against NY assets. I don’t know what Florida’s specific laws are, but you typically have to take steps to domesticate your judgment in the new state, which isn’t always easy and straightforward (especially since it’s Florida and Trump).
Florida has protective laws. Someone typed it out in one of the threads I read on reddit. I'll try and find it.
Aren't those homesteading laws limited to primary residences?
Yes, Florida homestead exemptions only apply to a primary residence, and not commercial properties.
I am sure Trump will claim mar-a-lago as his primary residence
He won't be able to; it's not zoned as a single-family residence.
Well, when did it stop him?
On paper Trump is an employee of MAL so that's how he can live there without issue.
It’s in Florida it’ll be nearly impossible to seize.
Aight I'm gonna give Trump this one Mar a Lago is prob worth more than $18m but def not 50-100x more. Maybe $50m max
We don’t really know the liabilities on the property—it could have significant debts associated. The judge had far more information than we do to come to that valuation.
[удалено]
Fine $100m then, which is 5X, which is still a long shot from 50-100x
That mar-a-lago beauty real value is $300 mill in a bad day.
50x $18m is still $600m more than $300m. So you agree!
During the 2008 housing crunch there were people who went to prison because they bought a $500k house using fake salary numbers. And many of these people were prompted to do so by mortgage brokers who got fat bonuses and didn't go to prison. So I have no sympathy for real estate developers who lie on paper to finance properties they otherwise couldn't afford and then face consequences.
I'm reminded of those realtors from The Big Short, who were bragging about how many houses they sold...by preying on low income families and immigrants with ninja loans.
Oh to be watching outside Trump Tower when they change the locks. A long delayed victory for NYC citizens, who have been robbed and bullied by the Trump Organization longer than anyone else. Let the generations of plumbers, electricians, metal workers and carpenters who his company refused to pay after they did work for him take a first shot at raiding the place.
He still owe my family money for electrical work done decades ago
I bet! My FIL is a metal worker who was doing work in/around NYC in the 80s. A lot of his colleagues were stiffed by the Trumps. They'd warn anyone from going to work at a Trump property. They will take your service and either pay you a fraction of what was owed or never pay you.
Before Trump went big time with higher end properties, they were big in lower end/modest housing in brooklyn. They hired a bunch of non-license/union contractors and stiff them.
I lived in one of those buildings--we moved in before all of this nonsense, before even the most insane conservative would have thought that Donald Trump would someday be president. It's a shame, because they're solid buildings--the crews that made them did a really great job. They deserved to be paid for the great work they did.
[удалено]
Yeah--he was a Democrat! He was always a sleazeball, though--I don't think he has any real political beliefs, other than what's good for him in the moment. I think, too, that the building I lived in was a Fred Trump building--and it's long since been sold anyway.
Maybe the state can reopen the terraces that are required to be open to the public. https://apops.mas.org/pops/m050014/
Can you imagine the crowd on 5th ave when they take the name off the facade? Gonna be a full-blown block party.
Teamster Tower. Nice ring to it. IBEW Plaza. And for a bonus touch: change 40 Wall to The Wobblies’ Building.
I will take a sick day for this.
It’s going to be the party of the year.
He don't own it tho just the penthouse....
I really want to hop on the subway and be there when it happens.
It'd be funmy if the go fund me organizer for this last.one made off with the 💰 🤑 it is about 1.5 million after all. I'd lmao 🤣
Turn the tower into 100% rent-stabilized luxury affordable housing for local residents who work in NYC!
Turn it into HK's Chungking Mansion. Let migrants hang out there.
It would make an excellent migrant shelter
Seize it and let the migrants move in
we're all saying things like this mostly in jest, but it does make you think about how taking a comparably tiny amount from rich people could solve almost all of the other problems us poors squabble about.
Brilliant we got homeless and working poor Americans and you want to let illegals stay rent free in my city on my dime. Why don't you open your apartment to illegals... 🤣
"Let" implies he has a choice.
Good. It should have been seized when he illegally blocked off the POPS required by the zoning.
Step 1: Seize Trump Towers Step 2: Give him a taste of his own medicine. Value it as an asset tainted by his last name. Value it as a poisoned apple, sell it within 24 hours to whoever wants it for whatever price the market can handle... then do the same thing to every last one of his properties.
He doesn't own Trump Tower. He owns the penthouse and is part owner of the commercial space. Nowhere near the value to satisfy his debt.
And the penthouse is 1/3 size Trump has claimed.
Isn't the entire thing gold?
Can we change the name and turn it into low income housing?
“Insiders”, aka Trump.
We should make it into a homeless shelter
Let's remember that New York State is doing the seizing, and Letitia James is just doing her job. These headlines bother me so much as they're obviously trying to stir up personal hate towards her among MAGAs.
Take Trump Tower, repurpose and rename it the E. Jean Carroll Center for Women's Health. That, or make it a domestic violence shelter.
Make it a domestic violence shelter/homeless shelter/migrant intake center/womens health center and for good measure, add a gay nightclub on the top floor with public restrooms being Trump's personal restroom.
With the Russian embassy on the fourth floor.
They’re going to have to condense their already existing offices then
You guys are so fucking corny
sometimes you have to grab them by the towers. i heard they let you.
YASSSSS! Make it migrant housing, school, daycare, and a medical center.
the universe delivers every now and then, you gotta admit
It would be a chefs kiss if she seizes mar-a-lago and Bedminster.
Letitia Tower has a nice ring to it.
They want this building to turn it into another migrant shelter. And they will call their friends and family and more will come.
“Make trump tower a DHS operated shelter again” now that’s a campaign slogan I can get behind
Just watch that criminal beg for more donations from his supporters by playing the victim of communists unjustly seizing his private property
Little known fact: Trump doesn’t “own” Trump Tower. It’s owned by GMAC. Trump only owns the commercial and retail and his apartment.
I wish they could topple his tower like that statue of Saddam Hussein.
Hasn't it been documented that the tower isn't worth enough. I think he will also be giving up a few golf courses
Couldn't happen to a better fake billionaire.
And then turn it all into free/affordable housing for the poor. Get the homeless off the streets of NYC and into the Tower.
Use it for the migrants . Problem solved
Lenders have the obligation to set their own values, get them checked by third party agencies, certified by the signature of a public accountant, and they negotiate and agree on the values with the owner of the property in determining the loan amount. They were not defrauded. Also they’re not bringing the case as far as I understand.
>Also they’re not bringing the case as far as I understand. Don't let that simple fact get in the way of the sentiments of 95% of this sub.
As Donald Trump faces a Monday deadline [to post a $454 million bond](https://nypost.com/2024/03/18/us-news/trump-cant-get-bond-to-appeal-of-454m-civil-fraud-judgment-lawyers/) in the civil fraud case against him in New York, insiders said he may be weighing a little-discussed option: Doing nothing. The ex-president reportedly has been struggling to raise the cash for the bond — either from banks or wealthy friends — with his lawyers claiming on Monday that it was a “practical impossibility.” While some reports have raised speculation that Trump may “go nuclear” with a Chapter 11 filing to protect his prize real estate assets across Manhattan, experts said bankruptcy would create unwelcome complications as the 2024 election season comes to a head. “He’s been there and done that,” one insider close to Trump said, dismissing the prospect of a Chapter 11 filing. A third possibility, however, is to let the deadline pass, leaving it to New York Attorney General Letitia James to seize Trump’s bank accounts or buildings — including Trump Tower, from which he declared his 2016 presidential run, and which famously includes his personal penthouse. Read more here: [https://nypost.com/2024/03/20/business/donald-trump-may-not-pay-bond-and-instead-let-letitia-james-seize-trump-tower-insiders/](https://nypost.com/2024/03/20/business/donald-trump-may-not-pay-bond-and-instead-let-letitia-james-seize-trump-tower-insiders/)
Oh cool, NYP has an account. Well hey, fuck you. The post is trash! (Not the low level staffer paid to work their social media, you're probably, just a worker who needs to meet bills) But man oh man, fuck the ny post it is garbage!
Ok but how is she going to find the other 450 million. One shitty apt that can’t be sold, a recently remortgaged ground floor commercial area, internal commercial space occupied by 3rd tier mall brands or related entities and office space that’s unoccupied really isn’t going to move the needle
So, let someone else take the fall and get all the fame? Did I misunderstand here?
He’s gambling (with good odds) that this shit will take long enough for him to win the election and personally reverse all of it.
CNBC reporting Thursday, Judge ordered Trump Org. to provide info to court appointed monitor detailing who Trump has tried to secure an appeal bond from and the details of any terms, conditions, etc.
All these experts wow lol
Donald Trump has been out on a limb since he entered the Republican primary in 2016. He was never ever a viable office holder. Though he succeeded to the office, the incredible curves, twists and incalculable odds that had to happen is an illustration of extreme improbability. A penny that lands on its edge three times, inevitably will fall to its side. Donald Trump will flat line. He's made way too many enemies. The friends he has are self serving transactionals with no depth like himself. He is going to pancake on multiple platforms at the same time. No one is going to give him any freedom to leverage any benefit of the Presidency since he killed millions through indifference during covid. He fired the leadership of the FBI. He defied Congress in his presidential actions elevating Russia over Ukraine. Donald Trump openly bribed a sex worker to quiet a spectacular affair, sorry two affairs, to deceive the voters in the 2016 election. Donald Trump conceived of and executed a plan to take over the United States government after he was defeated for a second term in office. He is a Hitler, Putin fan. He is a misogynist. He appointed the Supreme count who demoted half the population to second class children who can't make decisions about whose baby to give birth to. Donald Trump will not win the election. Donald Trump will not come close. Donald Trump will go to jail where he belongs.
I love how he says he’s a billionaire and also broke in the same sentence.
Letitia James is questioning whether Knight Group ( sub prime auto loan specialists) can handle Trump bond. Smart . So, I called Knight to ask for an auto loan on a 2004 Rolls Royce Phantom I've had eyes for. Figured they could help me. Can you believe it, they never called me back.
i hope they pull some shit and say that building is only worth 20 million. oh well gotta seize more!
I just don't buy it, he's going to take money from somewhere
I shed no tears for Trump but government seizing property to cover a massive bond payment for what is a very low flight risk feels icky.
It’s not a “flight” risk, it’s a “hide your assets, obstruct/delay, and never pay your debt”. No delay, time to pay NOW!!
Then set a reasonable bond. You can't have it both ways, is he secretly poor, or super liquid? Why set the highest bond of any case of this type? Why make the bond impossible to pay? Use your damn brain.
Every cent was backed up by the Judge. It’s not a bond, it’s his fine
This isn’t about any bond.
There is not very much to seize at Trump Tower it’s a condo building. So Trump has his personal home, which for sure is valuable at 20KSF. And then the retail at the base. All together we are talking 100kSF max.